WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.389 --> 00:00:01.679 Uh, 2 00:00:01.879 --> 00:00:02.319 good morning. 3 00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:07.090 This is Matthew Gernstead and Julie Kaplan interviewing Doctor Lewen Hartwell 4 00:00:07.480 --> 00:00:08.600 on December 6, 5 00:00:08.680 --> 00:00:10.170 2018 at 6 00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:14.500 11:28 a.m. in Vice Dean Nicola Footte's office. 7 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:18.020 This interview is part of the Barrett World History Project. 8 00:00:18.670 --> 00:00:20.120 Our goal is to preserve a record of 9 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:22.899 Barrett's history in honor of our 30th anniversary. 10 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:23.360 Uh, 11 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:24.120 Doctor Hartwell, 12 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:27.420 thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us and share your experience. 13 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:28.899 Uh, 14 00:00:29.059 --> 00:00:31.040 so we'll begin with a bit of personal history. 15 00:00:31.340 --> 00:00:31.489 Uh, 16 00:00:31.540 --> 00:00:33.020 can you tell us what specific, 17 00:00:33.069 --> 00:00:33.450 uh, 18 00:00:33.459 --> 00:00:34.000 personal, 19 00:00:34.069 --> 00:00:34.819 academic, 20 00:00:34.860 --> 00:00:36.880 or professional experiences 21 00:00:37.299 --> 00:00:40.139 shaped your decision to pursue a career in biological sciences? 22 00:00:42.509 --> 00:00:43.049 OK, 23 00:00:43.169 --> 00:00:43.290 well, 24 00:00:43.369 --> 00:00:45.299 it was actually a fairly dramatic moment. 25 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:45.869 So, 26 00:00:46.229 --> 00:00:46.919 um, 27 00:00:46.930 --> 00:00:47.369 I, 28 00:00:47.380 --> 00:00:48.229 uh, 29 00:00:48.330 --> 00:00:51.009 was an undergraduate at uh C Caltech. 30 00:00:51.819 --> 00:00:53.680 And I was a physics major. 31 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.299 And I took an elective course in biology. 32 00:00:59.259 --> 00:01:01.369 And this was about 33 00:01:01.630 --> 00:01:05.550 5 years after the structure of DNA had been discovered. 34 00:01:06.430 --> 00:01:08.309 And this class was, 35 00:01:08.930 --> 00:01:08.940 I, 36 00:01:08.949 --> 00:01:09.889 I don't know how he 37 00:01:10.029 --> 00:01:11.349 did this the whole semester, 38 00:01:11.389 --> 00:01:13.669 but the instructor would stand down there in front of the class, 39 00:01:13.790 --> 00:01:15.410 wave his arms and jump around 40 00:01:15.870 --> 00:01:20.449 about how excited he was about DNA and what we were going to learn from it, 41 00:01:20.910 --> 00:01:21.389 and, 42 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:21.699 uh, 43 00:01:21.709 --> 00:01:24.300 I got excited too and just decided that, 44 00:01:24.309 --> 00:01:24.790 um. 45 00:01:25.569 --> 00:01:25.849 Uh, 46 00:01:25.930 --> 00:01:28.870 this biology was really going to, 47 00:01:29.330 --> 00:01:29.919 um, 48 00:01:29.930 --> 00:01:30.930 change dramatically, 49 00:01:30.970 --> 00:01:32.370 and I wanted to be part of it. 50 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.839 And would you say that professor at Caltech was one of your, 51 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:37.370 you know, 52 00:01:37.449 --> 00:01:39.120 most influential mentors, 53 00:01:39.169 --> 00:01:39.290 uh, 54 00:01:39.370 --> 00:01:41.089 during your years as an undergraduate student, 55 00:01:41.190 --> 00:01:41.529 or, 56 00:01:41.809 --> 00:01:42.199 uh, 57 00:01:42.370 --> 00:01:43.900 not most influential, 58 00:01:43.970 --> 00:01:46.839 but was my advisor and did, 59 00:01:46.849 --> 00:01:47.360 um, 60 00:01:47.370 --> 00:01:48.389 help along the way. 61 00:01:49.379 --> 00:01:52.480 So when you look back either at Caltech or any of the, 62 00:01:52.819 --> 00:01:52.940 you know, 63 00:01:53.139 --> 00:01:55.690 schools you attended when you were in our position, 64 00:01:56.059 --> 00:01:56.209 uh, 65 00:01:56.300 --> 00:02:00.099 who stands out as being one of your most influential mentors, 66 00:02:00.180 --> 00:02:00.699 would you say? 67 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:02.860 Um, 68 00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:03.239 well, 69 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:03.839 several, 70 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.819 Caltech was a special place in that 71 00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:10.320 there were very few undergraduates compared to faculty, 72 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:15.220 so you could do research with any faculty member you wanted to any time. 73 00:02:15.940 --> 00:02:19.139 And uh so I did research every semester, 74 00:02:19.259 --> 00:02:20.759 every quarter I was there, 75 00:02:21.820 --> 00:02:22.289 um, 76 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:24.100 and so there was a lot of influence, 77 00:02:24.220 --> 00:02:24.699 but 78 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:25.520 um 79 00:02:25.899 --> 00:02:27.320 probably the most 80 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:29.639 important one was a 81 00:02:29.899 --> 00:02:31.139 fellow named Bob Edgar, 82 00:02:31.259 --> 00:02:34.020 who was in the Max Delbrook Page Group 83 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:35.860 and um 84 00:02:36.809 --> 00:02:37.100 Uh, 85 00:02:37.179 --> 00:02:40.100 I did a research project with Bob and 86 00:02:40.539 --> 00:02:41.679 he was, 87 00:02:41.860 --> 00:02:42.419 um. 88 00:02:43.839 --> 00:02:46.389 Using genetics to, 89 00:02:46.610 --> 00:02:47.270 um, 90 00:02:47.449 --> 00:02:49.220 elucidate the 91 00:02:50.210 --> 00:02:52.619 Assembly pathway for a virus. 92 00:02:53.339 --> 00:02:54.619 And um 93 00:02:54.820 --> 00:02:58.119 I thought that was really spectacular and I sort of 94 00:02:58.899 --> 00:03:00.080 followed his 95 00:03:00.259 --> 00:03:01.919 um example 96 00:03:02.539 --> 00:03:04.039 through the rest of my career. 97 00:03:04.389 --> 00:03:04.899 Wonderful. 98 00:03:05.630 --> 00:03:06.929 And then when you were in school, 99 00:03:07.070 --> 00:03:11.410 were there any programs that remind you specifically of Barrett today 100 00:03:11.630 --> 00:03:13.850 that might have shaped your decision to come here to Barrett? 101 00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:15.710 Um, 102 00:03:15.830 --> 00:03:18.070 I'd say Caltech was a lot like Barrett. 103 00:03:19.220 --> 00:03:19.539 Um, 104 00:03:19.619 --> 00:03:21.080 it's a small university, 105 00:03:21.339 --> 00:03:22.000 um, 106 00:03:22.380 --> 00:03:23.759 it's smaller than than 107 00:03:23.940 --> 00:03:24.500 Barrett. 108 00:03:25.449 --> 00:03:26.050 Um, 109 00:03:26.339 --> 00:03:26.610 but, 110 00:03:26.690 --> 00:03:27.380 um, 111 00:03:27.820 --> 00:03:30.360 highly selected group of students that, 112 00:03:30.369 --> 00:03:30.940 um. 113 00:03:31.649 --> 00:03:31.660 We 114 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:34.100 Um 115 00:03:35.660 --> 00:03:37.470 encouraged to 116 00:03:38.589 --> 00:03:40.809 Think for themselves to be original, 117 00:03:40.860 --> 00:03:42.059 were respected, 118 00:03:42.300 --> 00:03:42.860 um. 119 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:45.940 As contributors, 120 00:03:46.399 --> 00:03:46.679 so you, 121 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:49.860 you sort of entered an environment where 122 00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:51.630 you were 123 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:54.199 Assumed to be 124 00:03:54.619 --> 00:03:55.279 a 125 00:03:55.539 --> 00:03:56.139 contributor. 126 00:03:57.059 --> 00:03:57.289 Uh, 127 00:03:57.380 --> 00:03:58.850 I remember once when, 128 00:03:58.860 --> 00:03:59.300 um, 129 00:04:01.630 --> 00:04:03.139 And Max Delbrook's group, 130 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:04.490 he would have. 131 00:04:05.380 --> 00:04:05.990 Um, 132 00:04:06.100 --> 00:04:07.800 a weekly meeting in which 133 00:04:07.979 --> 00:04:10.360 people would talk about the research and 134 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:11.440 Um, 135 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:14.149 it's a small room because he wanted it small and so he would 136 00:04:14.149 --> 00:04:17.238 stand at the door and say who could come in and who couldn't. 137 00:04:18.260 --> 00:04:19.059 And I've, 138 00:04:19.178 --> 00:04:19.380 I've, 139 00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:23.079 I've seen him turn faculty away and allow students like me in. 140 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:25.820 So that was the environment 141 00:04:26.239 --> 00:04:27.260 and is that 142 00:04:27.799 --> 00:04:28.980 how you would um 143 00:04:29.119 --> 00:04:31.750 define your philosophy today as an instructor here Barrett? 144 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:32.500 Absolutely, 145 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:36.220 as I think the students are much more interesting than faculty. 146 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:38.600 So I, 147 00:04:38.679 --> 00:04:38.920 I wonder, 148 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:39.679 Doctor Hartwell, 149 00:04:39.790 --> 00:04:42.160 can you tell us more about your decision to 150 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:43.940 come here to Arizona State University and then, 151 00:04:44.070 --> 00:04:44.200 you know, 152 00:04:44.359 --> 00:04:45.760 subsequent to that to bear it, 153 00:04:46.329 --> 00:04:46.480 um, 154 00:04:46.559 --> 00:04:46.720 you know, 155 00:04:46.799 --> 00:04:47.600 after you, 156 00:04:47.760 --> 00:04:47.920 you know, 157 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:49.920 shared the Nobel Prize in 2001, 158 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:50.119 I mean, 159 00:04:50.200 --> 00:04:51.959 presumably you could have gone anywhere. 160 00:04:52.359 --> 00:04:52.480 You know, 161 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:53.850 a scientist of your stature, 162 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:55.839 so why specifically here at ASU? 163 00:04:57.200 --> 00:04:57.399 Well, 164 00:04:57.480 --> 00:04:58.260 there's the, 165 00:04:58.320 --> 00:04:59.079 uh, 166 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.190 there's the fun anecdote and there's the, 167 00:05:03.200 --> 00:05:03.679 um, 168 00:05:04.290 --> 00:05:05.070 Uh, 169 00:05:05.570 --> 00:05:06.980 sort of logical motivation, 170 00:05:07.089 --> 00:05:09.149 so let's start with the logical motivation 171 00:05:09.529 --> 00:05:11.140 is when I, 172 00:05:11.149 --> 00:05:11.609 um, 173 00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:13.549 was 174 00:05:14.790 --> 00:05:16.369 Coming to the end of my 175 00:05:17.070 --> 00:05:21.369 time as president of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, 176 00:05:21.950 --> 00:05:22.570 um, 177 00:05:23.029 --> 00:05:26.500 I had already given up my research laboratory, 178 00:05:26.549 --> 00:05:27.369 uh, 179 00:05:27.709 --> 00:05:28.170 then 180 00:05:28.709 --> 00:05:29.369 and 181 00:05:29.630 --> 00:05:31.850 was thinking about what I wanted to do next. 182 00:05:32.609 --> 00:05:37.359 And I decided that what was the most important thing was education. 183 00:05:38.200 --> 00:05:39.709 And that, 184 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.350 um, 185 00:05:42.059 --> 00:05:42.980 Uh, 186 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:45.660 the world was changing dramatically, 187 00:05:45.980 --> 00:05:46.579 uh, 188 00:05:46.619 --> 00:05:47.570 in many ways, 189 00:05:47.700 --> 00:05:48.600 and that, 190 00:05:49.100 --> 00:05:49.660 uh, 191 00:05:49.700 --> 00:05:53.839 creating a sustainable planet was the first order of business. 192 00:05:54.630 --> 00:05:56.059 And so 193 00:05:56.269 --> 00:05:56.950 I. 194 00:05:57.790 --> 00:05:58.670 Began 195 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:02.269 Creating a 196 00:06:02.709 --> 00:06:06.010 sustainability science course for teachers, 197 00:06:06.429 --> 00:06:06.899 um, 198 00:06:06.910 --> 00:06:07.809 while I was still 199 00:06:08.230 --> 00:06:10.350 at the Fred Hutch and I brought it here. 200 00:06:11.309 --> 00:06:11.709 To, 201 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:12.309 and 202 00:06:12.619 --> 00:06:16.769 we continued working on it for years here at uh Arizona State University. 203 00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:18.480 Um, 204 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:19.040 the, 205 00:06:19.119 --> 00:06:21.339 the fun anecdote is that a 206 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:22.739 good friend of mine, 207 00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:23.920 Oren Edson, 208 00:06:24.549 --> 00:06:25.260 Um, 209 00:06:26.190 --> 00:06:29.529 invited my wife and I to go on a trip to the 210 00:06:29.529 --> 00:06:33.589 Galapagos with him and his wife and a few other couples, 211 00:06:34.070 --> 00:06:37.500 and one of the couples was Michael Crowe and um 212 00:06:38.859 --> 00:06:39.359 Uh, 213 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:40.119 Sybil, 214 00:06:40.619 --> 00:06:45.299 and so we got to know them and Michael invited me here and so the two. 215 00:06:46.070 --> 00:06:47.570 Things sort of came together. 216 00:06:48.609 --> 00:06:49.160 Wonderful. 217 00:06:49.940 --> 00:06:53.329 And then we're gonna pivot into uh what you're doing at Barrett today. 218 00:06:53.790 --> 00:06:54.700 So looking back, 219 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:55.170 uh, 220 00:06:55.179 --> 00:06:56.630 over the years you've been here at Barrett, 221 00:06:56.739 --> 00:06:57.489 can you pinpoint, 222 00:06:57.709 --> 00:06:57.869 you know, 223 00:06:57.989 --> 00:06:59.720 one moment that you're proudest of, 224 00:06:59.989 --> 00:07:02.769 or maybe one experience with a student that you're proudest of? 225 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:05.640 Well, 226 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.290 I think the 227 00:07:08.859 --> 00:07:10.589 The thing I remember, 228 00:07:11.029 --> 00:07:11.720 um. 229 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:15.079 The most in terms of 230 00:07:16.220 --> 00:07:16.709 Feeling, 231 00:07:16.850 --> 00:07:17.329 um, 232 00:07:19.049 --> 00:07:19.440 Uh, 233 00:07:19.570 --> 00:07:21.790 happy about what I'm doing is, 234 00:07:22.209 --> 00:07:23.100 uh, 235 00:07:24.010 --> 00:07:25.929 when students send me a card at the end of 236 00:07:25.929 --> 00:07:28.230 the semester saying what a great time they had. 237 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:29.540 Wonderful. 238 00:07:30.730 --> 00:07:33.040 And then you spoke earlier about, 239 00:07:33.410 --> 00:07:33.529 you know, 240 00:07:33.690 --> 00:07:36.929 holding on to that capacity to be taught by students, 241 00:07:37.290 --> 00:07:37.410 you know, 242 00:07:37.529 --> 00:07:38.869 while you're teaching them. 243 00:07:39.290 --> 00:07:40.769 So what would you say 244 00:07:41.089 --> 00:07:42.790 the most significant lesson 245 00:07:43.089 --> 00:07:44.809 that you've been taught by a student would be? 246 00:07:52.440 --> 00:07:52.910 Um, 247 00:07:54.109 --> 00:07:54.230 Well, 248 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:58.269 let me just say something about that attitude is that, 249 00:07:58.670 --> 00:07:59.260 um, 250 00:07:59.630 --> 00:07:59.779 what, 251 00:07:59.829 --> 00:08:02.890 what I think is most important in this era. 252 00:08:03.829 --> 00:08:05.070 Is that 253 00:08:05.989 --> 00:08:07.089 Our students. 254 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:09.720 Come out as learners. 255 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:12.070 Rather than knowers, 256 00:08:12.679 --> 00:08:12.880 right? 257 00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:14.459 Everything is going to change. 258 00:08:14.640 --> 00:08:14.980 Right. 259 00:08:15.320 --> 00:08:15.920 And, 260 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.160 We used to train students to be knowers, 261 00:08:19.320 --> 00:08:19.489 right? 262 00:08:19.670 --> 00:08:19.690 You have 263 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:23.980 mastered a certain body of knowledge and then you went out and practiced it, 264 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:25.839 and that's no longer adequate. 265 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:30.299 What students need to do now is to go out prepared to learn as everything changes 266 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:31.880 underneath their feet. 267 00:08:32.890 --> 00:08:33.679 Um, 268 00:08:34.130 --> 00:08:34.630 so, 269 00:08:34.929 --> 00:08:35.450 um, 270 00:08:36.869 --> 00:08:37.070 I, 271 00:08:37.150 --> 00:08:38.308 I guess what 272 00:08:38.590 --> 00:08:40.010 I have learned 273 00:08:40.510 --> 00:08:40.659 and, 274 00:08:40.710 --> 00:08:42.049 and so when I teach, 275 00:08:42.270 --> 00:08:42.890 um, 276 00:08:43.349 --> 00:08:44.000 I, 277 00:08:44.390 --> 00:08:44.739 I, 278 00:08:44.830 --> 00:08:48.530 I teach with the attitude that I'm learning as well as them, 279 00:08:48.859 --> 00:08:49.229 uh. 280 00:08:50.049 --> 00:08:50.679 Uh, 281 00:08:51.010 --> 00:08:52.200 we explore 282 00:08:52.619 --> 00:08:52.900 things, 283 00:08:53.020 --> 00:08:56.799 people ask questions that they'd like to answer and then explore them. 284 00:08:57.479 --> 00:08:58.179 And 285 00:08:58.479 --> 00:09:00.640 uh I often do a project my own, 286 00:09:00.719 --> 00:09:02.640 of my own at the same time with them. 287 00:09:03.650 --> 00:09:04.289 Um, 288 00:09:04.770 --> 00:09:05.280 and, 289 00:09:05.489 --> 00:09:05.690 uh, 290 00:09:05.890 --> 00:09:07.309 so I guess it's the. 291 00:09:08.409 --> 00:09:09.000 Um, 292 00:09:10.650 --> 00:09:11.630 The different 293 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:13.080 approaches, 294 00:09:14.679 --> 00:09:15.440 That 295 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:16.919 students 296 00:09:17.239 --> 00:09:19.039 will bring to. 297 00:09:19.969 --> 00:09:21.070 The study 298 00:09:21.250 --> 00:09:24.159 and their the questions they're asking and their interests. 299 00:09:24.739 --> 00:09:25.349 Um, 300 00:09:26.270 --> 00:09:26.940 And 301 00:09:27.229 --> 00:09:27.500 I, 302 00:09:27.590 --> 00:09:29.109 I try. 303 00:09:30.729 --> 00:09:30.739 To 304 00:09:31.289 --> 00:09:33.809 give students completely free reign to choose 305 00:09:33.809 --> 00:09:36.049 whatever they're interested in to pursue. 306 00:09:36.849 --> 00:09:37.400 Um. 307 00:09:38.419 --> 00:09:39.479 And sometimes, 308 00:09:39.539 --> 00:09:40.140 uh, 309 00:09:40.340 --> 00:09:41.080 they pick. 310 00:09:41.880 --> 00:09:44.739 Things that seem to me very difficult 311 00:09:45.520 --> 00:09:46.059 to do. 312 00:09:46.849 --> 00:09:47.719 And 313 00:09:47.859 --> 00:09:50.020 but I don't discourage them because 314 00:09:50.380 --> 00:09:51.219 what you know, 315 00:09:51.570 --> 00:09:53.000 let's see what they do with it 316 00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:53.770 and I, 317 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:54.460 and I think the, 318 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:54.820 the, 319 00:09:54.859 --> 00:09:55.200 the 320 00:09:56.130 --> 00:09:59.820 biggest surprise is how often students succeed to do far 321 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:02.020 more than I would have expected them to do. 322 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:07.219 I had 2 great examples this semester and 1 last semester. 323 00:10:08.070 --> 00:10:08.760 Um, 324 00:10:09.099 --> 00:10:10.020 where that happened. 325 00:10:10.770 --> 00:10:11.390 Um, 326 00:10:12.130 --> 00:10:12.609 so, 327 00:10:12.770 --> 00:10:12.849 in, 328 00:10:12.950 --> 00:10:12.960 in, 329 00:10:12.989 --> 00:10:13.369 in, 330 00:10:13.450 --> 00:10:14.280 in both cases, 331 00:10:14.369 --> 00:10:14.950 I think, 332 00:10:15.609 --> 00:10:15.729 in, 333 00:10:15.809 --> 00:10:17.450 in all three cases they, 334 00:10:17.650 --> 00:10:18.909 they came back and said, 335 00:10:19.710 --> 00:10:21.289 That it was really hard 336 00:10:21.750 --> 00:10:22.489 and 337 00:10:22.710 --> 00:10:23.239 that 338 00:10:23.590 --> 00:10:24.210 they 339 00:10:24.429 --> 00:10:28.450 learned so much about themselves by doing it and succeeding. 340 00:10:29.479 --> 00:10:31.719 And then two of the courses you've taught here at 341 00:10:31.719 --> 00:10:36.200 Barrett are um 21st century skills and 21st century ideas, 342 00:10:36.640 --> 00:10:36.830 uh, 343 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:39.039 where you have that model of teaching that you've just, 344 00:10:39.150 --> 00:10:39.309 you know, 345 00:10:39.520 --> 00:10:40.099 spoken about. 346 00:10:40.760 --> 00:10:41.320 Um, 347 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:42.400 so do you think, 348 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:42.710 um, 349 00:10:42.859 --> 00:10:42.960 well, 350 00:10:43.010 --> 00:10:43.359 first of all, 351 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.539 can you tell us a little bit more about how that works in practice 352 00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:49.099 and what was maybe the genesis of that, 353 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:49.859 um, 354 00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:50.390 you know, 355 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:51.659 those two courses, 356 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:52.750 and then, 357 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:53.280 um. 358 00:10:54.190 --> 00:10:56.559 Do you see more of your colleagues here at Barrett and 359 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:59.880 at ASU adopting a model like that for their own courses, 360 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:01.039 and do you think more of them should? 361 00:11:02.729 --> 00:11:02.960 Well, 362 00:11:03.119 --> 00:11:03.830 so the, 363 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:04.469 the, 364 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:04.880 the, 365 00:11:04.979 --> 00:11:08.679 the model that I use for a course is 366 00:11:09.119 --> 00:11:13.419 there's a sort of overarching theme that we're exploring that semester 367 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:14.700 and 368 00:11:14.809 --> 00:11:17.539 um I encourage students to 369 00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:21.299 find some question within that umbrella 370 00:11:21.530 --> 00:11:23.719 that interests them that they wanna pursue. 371 00:11:24.650 --> 00:11:25.119 Um, 372 00:11:25.169 --> 00:11:30.169 and we often take 2 or 3 weeks for them to come up with their question. 373 00:11:31.140 --> 00:11:31.659 Um, 374 00:11:32.330 --> 00:11:33.159 And then, 375 00:11:33.280 --> 00:11:33.869 um, 376 00:11:36.700 --> 00:11:38.900 It depends on what we're investigating, 377 00:11:39.020 --> 00:11:39.380 but I, 378 00:11:39.500 --> 00:11:40.599 I think the most, 379 00:11:41.099 --> 00:11:41.630 um, 380 00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:45.080 the thing I've done the most frequent is 381 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:46.359 Um, 382 00:11:48.270 --> 00:11:48.799 To 383 00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:50.409 Uh, 384 00:11:50.489 --> 00:11:51.549 examine 385 00:11:52.130 --> 00:11:54.830 the issue of how we know what we know 386 00:11:55.010 --> 00:11:55.530 and 387 00:11:55.729 --> 00:11:58.130 what are the limits of what we know and 388 00:11:58.609 --> 00:12:00.729 what can't we know because of those limits. 389 00:12:01.469 --> 00:12:01.869 Um, 390 00:12:01.950 --> 00:12:04.809 and I often do this in the area of global health 391 00:12:05.650 --> 00:12:06.289 because, 392 00:12:06.309 --> 00:12:07.049 um, 393 00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:08.369 health is 394 00:12:09.479 --> 00:12:11.299 The area where. 395 00:12:12.119 --> 00:12:15.299 We examine humans the most rigorously. 396 00:12:16.119 --> 00:12:18.539 And come up against the 397 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:23.919 barriers to knowledge based upon the fact that everybody's different and 398 00:12:25.210 --> 00:12:28.159 that you can experiment on humans and various things like that. 399 00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:29.570 Um, 400 00:12:30.609 --> 00:12:32.929 But another topic that you mentioned 401 00:12:33.030 --> 00:12:34.219 is um, 402 00:12:35.619 --> 00:12:36.710 Sort of um 403 00:12:37.570 --> 00:12:38.039 Uh, 404 00:12:38.169 --> 00:12:38.570 how, 405 00:12:38.729 --> 00:12:40.599 how students succeed 406 00:12:41.049 --> 00:12:41.859 and 407 00:12:42.450 --> 00:12:45.030 that of course is the fundamental interest, 408 00:12:45.369 --> 00:12:45.929 um. 409 00:12:46.750 --> 00:12:46.909 You know, 410 00:12:46.989 --> 00:12:49.049 how can we help students succeed. 411 00:12:50.669 --> 00:12:51.400 And 412 00:12:52.380 --> 00:12:52.940 Um, 413 00:12:53.760 --> 00:12:57.940 So I've learned a lot from the Barrett students in considering that topic. 414 00:12:58.869 --> 00:12:59.469 Um 415 00:13:00.530 --> 00:13:01.469 And 416 00:13:01.690 --> 00:13:03.190 uh that has 417 00:13:04.010 --> 00:13:06.229 resulted in a project that I'm doing 418 00:13:06.770 --> 00:13:08.849 now with one of your students, 419 00:13:09.109 --> 00:13:10.349 one of the Barrett students, 420 00:13:10.890 --> 00:13:11.330 um. 421 00:13:12.330 --> 00:13:12.669 To 422 00:13:13.210 --> 00:13:13.809 um. 423 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:19.390 Identify students who did poorly their first semester at ASU. 424 00:13:20.289 --> 00:13:21.460 And then 425 00:13:21.849 --> 00:13:24.270 by the end of their 4th semester, 426 00:13:24.369 --> 00:13:25.460 were doing well, 427 00:13:26.010 --> 00:13:29.090 so raised their grades by at least 1 full GPA. 428 00:13:30.179 --> 00:13:31.419 And um. 429 00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:35.500 The Provost's office has identified 430 00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:38.840 about 1% of the freshman class 431 00:13:39.780 --> 00:13:40.400 do that, 432 00:13:40.820 --> 00:13:41.520 it's very small, 433 00:13:41.619 --> 00:13:43.340 I'm surprised it's only 1%. 434 00:13:44.090 --> 00:13:45.520 But we are interviewing, 435 00:13:45.609 --> 00:13:46.349 as you hear, 436 00:13:46.700 --> 00:13:48.479 we're interviewing those students 437 00:13:48.890 --> 00:13:50.369 to see what their story is, 438 00:13:50.450 --> 00:13:50.849 how did, 439 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:52.510 what happened to them 440 00:13:52.929 --> 00:13:53.320 that. 441 00:13:54.260 --> 00:13:55.590 Allowed them to, 442 00:13:55.940 --> 00:13:56.659 to succeed. 443 00:13:57.780 --> 00:13:58.479 Excellent. 444 00:13:58.940 --> 00:14:03.049 That's actually a great way to transition to my final question for this section. 445 00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:03.809 Um, 446 00:14:03.940 --> 00:14:05.090 so aside from the, 447 00:14:05.099 --> 00:14:05.260 uh, 448 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:07.520 the Werner mindset we were talking about earlier, 449 00:14:08.090 --> 00:14:08.219 uh, 450 00:14:08.340 --> 00:14:11.440 what else do you think characterizes a successful Barrett student, 451 00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:11.890 um, 452 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:12.840 here on campus? 453 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:15.179 Um, 454 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:17.479 I'll let the students answer that, 455 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:18.400 OK, 456 00:14:18.479 --> 00:14:18.590 in, 457 00:14:18.650 --> 00:14:20.780 in one of these sections, 458 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:22.799 I asked the students. 459 00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:25.359 To write 460 00:14:25.710 --> 00:14:26.590 a letter. 461 00:14:27.599 --> 00:14:28.190 To 462 00:14:28.409 --> 00:14:29.960 a younger sibling 463 00:14:30.369 --> 00:14:32.130 who was about to enter ASU. 464 00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:34.729 And advise them on 465 00:14:34.950 --> 00:14:36.909 how they could be successful at ASU. 466 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:38.440 And 467 00:14:38.719 --> 00:14:40.859 out of 10 letters, 468 00:14:41.359 --> 00:14:44.080 9 were almost identical to one another. 469 00:14:44.900 --> 00:14:46.859 And they were all about. 470 00:14:47.710 --> 00:14:51.429 Get involved in as many things as you can as fast as you can. 471 00:14:53.479 --> 00:14:54.719 I was surprised at that. 472 00:14:55.619 --> 00:14:58.080 But it was almost as if they were all saying, 473 00:14:58.659 --> 00:15:00.159 ultimately that's 474 00:15:00.619 --> 00:15:04.169 what I found to be the most rewarding and useful thing, 475 00:15:04.659 --> 00:15:06.369 and I wish I had done it sooner. 476 00:15:06.770 --> 00:15:06.979 Sure. 477 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:08.479 And then, 478 00:15:08.489 --> 00:15:08.760 um, 479 00:15:08.849 --> 00:15:09.789 another question, 480 00:15:09.890 --> 00:15:12.799 and we'll get into a bit more of the work you're doing here on campus. 481 00:15:13.169 --> 00:15:13.390 Um, 482 00:15:13.489 --> 00:15:14.909 so what do you think Baird has done, 483 00:15:15.130 --> 00:15:15.559 uh, 484 00:15:15.820 --> 00:15:17.429 to be on the cutting edge of research, 485 00:15:17.849 --> 00:15:19.549 particularly on the issue of sustainability, 486 00:15:20.169 --> 00:15:22.489 and how have you as an instructor encouraged 487 00:15:22.489 --> 00:15:24.729 your students to involve themselves in those efforts? 488 00:15:24.849 --> 00:15:26.049 How have you facilitated that? 489 00:15:27.830 --> 00:15:27.989 Well, 490 00:15:28.090 --> 00:15:30.320 our efforts in sustainability, 491 00:15:30.349 --> 00:15:30.890 um, 492 00:15:31.150 --> 00:15:31.890 involve, 493 00:15:32.190 --> 00:15:32.700 uh, 494 00:15:32.710 --> 00:15:34.869 the teachers college rather than Bart, 495 00:15:35.429 --> 00:15:35.929 um, 496 00:15:36.390 --> 00:15:37.010 because, 497 00:15:37.109 --> 00:15:37.669 um. 498 00:15:39.010 --> 00:15:44.140 The goal is to prepare teachers who are going into the classroom. 499 00:15:44.859 --> 00:15:46.690 To understand 500 00:15:47.090 --> 00:15:49.710 the issues around sustainability and 501 00:15:50.130 --> 00:15:52.929 uh inform their students and 502 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:58.690 To be able to incorporate sustainability themes 503 00:15:59.309 --> 00:16:02.669 into a variety of things they have to teach anyway. 504 00:16:03.729 --> 00:16:04.530 And so we, 505 00:16:04.650 --> 00:16:06.340 we have a course that, 506 00:16:06.349 --> 00:16:07.099 um, 507 00:16:07.609 --> 00:16:09.750 several 100 teachers 508 00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:13.729 uh in preparation at ASU go through every semester. 509 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:16.530 And then, 510 00:16:16.570 --> 00:16:16.919 um, 511 00:16:17.130 --> 00:16:18.750 regarding the future of Barrett, 512 00:16:18.929 --> 00:16:19.049 um, 513 00:16:19.090 --> 00:16:21.049 we're doing these interviews now because 514 00:16:21.049 --> 00:16:23.979 obviously we're approaching our 30th anniversary. 515 00:16:24.409 --> 00:16:24.559 Uh, 516 00:16:24.650 --> 00:16:25.760 where do you see Barrett, 517 00:16:26.049 --> 00:16:26.210 you know, 518 00:16:26.489 --> 00:16:29.770 perhaps 10 years or 20 years or maybe even the next 30 years? 519 00:16:30.130 --> 00:16:30.250 Uh, 520 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:32.229 what do you think Barrett should look like 521 00:16:32.330 --> 00:16:34.179 when we're at that point in our history? 522 00:16:36.070 --> 00:16:36.609 Um. 523 00:16:41.520 --> 00:16:42.919 I think that's a, 524 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:43.229 a, 525 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:44.400 a great question. 526 00:16:44.479 --> 00:16:46.479 I hadn't thought about it before, 527 00:16:46.640 --> 00:16:48.919 but something immediately jumps to mind. 528 00:16:49.690 --> 00:16:51.159 Which is that 529 00:16:51.739 --> 00:16:54.359 um Barrett students have 530 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:57.049 A little more freedom. 531 00:16:57.820 --> 00:16:58.580 In 532 00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.580 there. 533 00:17:00.830 --> 00:17:01.559 Curriculum. 534 00:17:02.650 --> 00:17:03.359 Um, 535 00:17:03.750 --> 00:17:06.089 and most of the other students are. 536 00:17:07.328 --> 00:17:10.828 Pretty lockstep into the requirements of a major. 537 00:17:11.939 --> 00:17:12.729 And 538 00:17:13.098 --> 00:17:13.819 I think it's, 539 00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:15.300 it's poor training, 540 00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:16.140 um. 541 00:17:16.868 --> 00:17:20.150 For their future because their students are gonna 542 00:17:20.150 --> 00:17:22.060 need to be much more versatile than that. 543 00:17:22.939 --> 00:17:23.358 Um, 544 00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:23.680 and, 545 00:17:23.739 --> 00:17:26.069 and I think Barrett students have that opportunity. 546 00:17:26.719 --> 00:17:27.229 And 547 00:17:28.010 --> 00:17:28.209 I, 548 00:17:28.290 --> 00:17:29.209 I guess what 549 00:17:31.760 --> 00:17:32.040 One. 550 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:33.760 Would be really. 551 00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:35.569 Uh 552 00:17:37.130 --> 00:17:39.040 Important is if 553 00:17:40.260 --> 00:17:43.060 The Barrett College and the Barrett students 554 00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:46.199 could help transform the whole university 555 00:17:46.699 --> 00:17:48.109 to more of. 556 00:17:48.810 --> 00:17:49.369 Um, 557 00:17:50.530 --> 00:17:50.849 Uh, 558 00:17:50.930 --> 00:17:52.630 an education for the future. 559 00:17:54.109 --> 00:17:56.140 And do you see some of that happening now, 560 00:17:56.150 --> 00:17:57.300 or is it very much, 561 00:17:57.500 --> 00:17:57.670 you know, 562 00:17:57.800 --> 00:18:00.550 something that's in the early stages and we have to keep building on it? 563 00:18:01.670 --> 00:18:03.430 I don't see it happening so much. 564 00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:07.469 You asked about what other faculty you're doing and um. 565 00:18:08.420 --> 00:18:08.579 I, 566 00:18:08.660 --> 00:18:12.000 I think that the majority of the faculty are very 567 00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:16.260 focused on preparing students in their major to 568 00:18:16.260 --> 00:18:18.560 go out and be practitioners in their major. 569 00:18:19.619 --> 00:18:20.239 Um, 570 00:18:21.479 --> 00:18:23.119 And the students I, 571 00:18:23.239 --> 00:18:23.449 I, 572 00:18:23.560 --> 00:18:27.579 I experienced from Barrett seem to be much more sort of 573 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:29.479 open to what 574 00:18:30.040 --> 00:18:32.739 they're gonna do and trying a variety of different things. 575 00:18:33.550 --> 00:18:34.060 Um, 576 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:35.890 So, 577 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:37.099 um, 578 00:18:39.020 --> 00:18:39.290 But, 579 00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:41.369 but the Barrett students do, 580 00:18:41.780 --> 00:18:43.650 almost all of them is. 581 00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:47.319 Have some kind of activity, 582 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:49.270 service activity beyond their courses. 583 00:18:51.930 --> 00:18:52.709 Even if they're working, 584 00:18:52.969 --> 00:18:55.689 they're still doing volunteer work at various places, 585 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:56.770 almost every one of them. 586 00:18:57.640 --> 00:18:58.689 And um. 587 00:19:00.010 --> 00:19:00.020 So 588 00:19:02.229 --> 00:19:05.209 That effort I think could be really put into 589 00:19:05.790 --> 00:19:06.310 um. 590 00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:09.390 Helping to transform the university. 591 00:19:10.479 --> 00:19:11.859 As well as the community, 592 00:19:12.209 --> 00:19:12.449 right. 593 00:19:14.209 --> 00:19:17.189 And that's actually um an excellent way to lead into my next question. 594 00:19:17.989 --> 00:19:18.400 Um, 595 00:19:19.099 --> 00:19:22.079 You talk about how the university should be working, 596 00:19:22.339 --> 00:19:22.420 you know, 597 00:19:22.459 --> 00:19:23.650 in tandem with the community, 598 00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:25.020 especially the city of Tempe, 599 00:19:25.060 --> 00:19:26.250 which is very much, 600 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:26.739 you know, 601 00:19:26.939 --> 00:19:29.800 trying to lead here in Arizona on sustainability issues. 602 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:30.739 Um, 603 00:19:31.140 --> 00:19:35.579 what does that current relationship look like in your mind and have you, 604 00:19:35.979 --> 00:19:36.140 you know, 605 00:19:36.260 --> 00:19:36.650 worked, 606 00:19:36.859 --> 00:19:36.979 you know, 607 00:19:37.020 --> 00:19:39.250 either independently or with your students to, 608 00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:39.540 you know, 609 00:19:39.739 --> 00:19:42.119 strengthen those ties between the university 610 00:19:42.339 --> 00:19:44.619 and then what the city of Tempe is doing on those issues? 611 00:19:45.829 --> 00:19:45.939 No, 612 00:19:45.989 --> 00:19:48.189 I don't have any personal experience there. 613 00:19:48.270 --> 00:19:48.430 I, 614 00:19:48.510 --> 00:19:48.780 I'm, 615 00:19:48.910 --> 00:19:49.750 I have appointments in, 616 00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:52.989 in the school of Sustainability and the School of Education, 617 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:53.800 and, 618 00:19:53.810 --> 00:19:54.339 uh, 619 00:19:54.349 --> 00:19:57.089 certainly a lot of the students in the School of Sustainability, 620 00:19:57.750 --> 00:19:58.430 um, 621 00:19:59.390 --> 00:20:01.150 are involved in. 622 00:20:02.150 --> 00:20:03.780 Community planning 623 00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:04.930 projects, 624 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:05.479 uh, 625 00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:08.290 they have a big project with the city of Glendale, 626 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.920 but I, 627 00:20:08.989 --> 00:20:11.380 I don't have anything personally to do with that. 628 00:20:11.849 --> 00:20:12.400 Um, 629 00:20:12.760 --> 00:20:15.300 what I'm more interested in myself 630 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:16.099 are 631 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:17.209 the, 632 00:20:17.380 --> 00:20:18.060 um, 633 00:20:18.560 --> 00:20:21.510 K through 12 education in our community, 634 00:20:21.869 --> 00:20:22.979 and I have 635 00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:24.140 taught 636 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:25.800 myself in. 637 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:27.010 Uh, 638 00:20:27.089 --> 00:20:28.869 3 middle school science 639 00:20:29.290 --> 00:20:30.550 classes last 640 00:20:30.689 --> 00:20:31.010 year. 641 00:20:31.900 --> 00:20:32.699 And 642 00:20:33.300 --> 00:20:34.979 this next semester, 643 00:20:35.140 --> 00:20:36.719 what I'm doing is having 644 00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:38.640 about 20 645 00:20:39.290 --> 00:20:40.439 Barrett students. 646 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:41.739 Um 647 00:20:43.010 --> 00:20:45.150 Working on creating. 648 00:20:45.780 --> 00:20:47.300 Activities 649 00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:48.760 around 650 00:20:48.979 --> 00:20:50.900 human sensory perception, 651 00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:52.119 um, 652 00:20:52.540 --> 00:20:53.219 as an 653 00:20:53.949 --> 00:20:54.130 A, 654 00:20:54.229 --> 00:20:54.459 a, 655 00:20:54.589 --> 00:20:54.780 a, 656 00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:56.290 a way of um. 657 00:20:58.479 --> 00:21:01.060 Having an authentic science experience, 658 00:21:01.459 --> 00:21:02.579 I can tell you more about that, 659 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:03.040 but, 660 00:21:03.380 --> 00:21:03.650 uh, 661 00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:04.890 but basically, 662 00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:05.479 um, 663 00:21:05.859 --> 00:21:09.920 a lot of them are already interested in going out into the 664 00:21:10.339 --> 00:21:12.479 middle school classrooms and 665 00:21:12.739 --> 00:21:14.319 teaching as soon as possible 666 00:21:14.699 --> 00:21:18.540 and in fact one of them who came in the other day to sign up for this class. 667 00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:19.680 Um, 668 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:22.689 Has for 2 years 669 00:21:23.959 --> 00:21:26.869 been involved with a group of about 20 other students 670 00:21:27.290 --> 00:21:29.150 who are going out doing 671 00:21:29.969 --> 00:21:35.099 um afterschool science club uh in about 5 different schools in the community. 672 00:21:35.849 --> 00:21:36.369 Um, 673 00:21:36.849 --> 00:21:39.270 so that's the area I think, 674 00:21:39.329 --> 00:21:39.930 uh, 675 00:21:40.290 --> 00:21:40.410 we, 676 00:21:40.489 --> 00:21:41.800 we might expand a, 677 00:21:41.849 --> 00:21:43.530 a pretty interesting program. 678 00:21:45.270 --> 00:21:45.589 And then, 679 00:21:45.619 --> 00:21:45.859 uh, 680 00:21:45.869 --> 00:21:47.609 a more philosophical question, 681 00:21:48.270 --> 00:21:48.390 um, 682 00:21:48.550 --> 00:21:48.859 so I, 683 00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:51.130 I assume you're aware of the ASU charter 684 00:21:51.430 --> 00:21:51.589 and, 685 00:21:51.619 --> 00:21:51.949 uh, 686 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:52.869 what that lays out. 687 00:21:52.949 --> 00:21:53.839 I couldn't repeat it. 688 00:21:54.930 --> 00:21:54.939 Well, 689 00:21:54.989 --> 00:21:55.430 one of the, 690 00:21:55.510 --> 00:21:57.050 one of the points on the charter 691 00:21:57.410 --> 00:21:58.770 is that the school 692 00:21:58.949 --> 00:21:59.540 and all of its, 693 00:21:59.589 --> 00:21:59.750 you know, 694 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:03.609 constituent campuses will assume fundamental responsibility 695 00:22:03.949 --> 00:22:04.790 for the economic, 696 00:22:04.910 --> 00:22:05.270 social, 697 00:22:05.349 --> 00:22:05.819 cultural, 698 00:22:05.829 --> 00:22:08.040 and overall health of the communities it serves, 699 00:22:08.510 --> 00:22:09.670 and this is building upon the, 700 00:22:09.709 --> 00:22:10.969 the previous question I asked. 701 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:11.959 Um, 702 00:22:12.040 --> 00:22:13.000 what can Barrett, 703 00:22:13.109 --> 00:22:13.280 uh, 704 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:14.339 do over the next, 705 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:14.560 you know, 706 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.140 10 to 20 years in its future 707 00:22:16.709 --> 00:22:18.140 to better contribute to that mission? 708 00:22:18.989 --> 00:22:22.770 Of making sure that you know the work students do have that fundamental, 709 00:22:23.030 --> 00:22:23.189 you know, 710 00:22:23.349 --> 00:22:24.229 social impact. 711 00:22:25.050 --> 00:22:27.609 That's not just circulating here in the university system. 712 00:22:30.030 --> 00:22:30.410 Yeah, 713 00:22:30.589 --> 00:22:30.869 well, 714 00:22:31.010 --> 00:22:31.449 um. 715 00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:32.819 I, 716 00:22:32.900 --> 00:22:33.089 I, 717 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:33.969 I guess, 718 00:22:33.979 --> 00:22:34.500 uh. 719 00:22:35.959 --> 00:22:36.250 You know, 720 00:22:36.310 --> 00:22:38.369 a number of colleges 721 00:22:38.869 --> 00:22:42.369 encourage their students to get involved in the community using. 722 00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:44.430 Um, 723 00:22:44.750 --> 00:22:48.640 those opportunities as learning opportunities for their own 724 00:22:49.099 --> 00:22:49.540 careers, 725 00:22:49.729 --> 00:22:50.199 so 726 00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:51.160 You know, 727 00:22:52.020 --> 00:22:52.939 Journalism, 728 00:22:57.030 --> 00:22:58.869 There's the Cronkite school, 729 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:00.939 News program 730 00:23:02.060 --> 00:23:03.180 There's as we said, 731 00:23:03.219 --> 00:23:05.319 the sustainability of students who are 732 00:23:05.770 --> 00:23:06.540 doing plans around, 733 00:23:06.579 --> 00:23:08.859 there's the law students who are doing various things. 734 00:23:08.939 --> 00:23:09.319 There's 735 00:23:09.619 --> 00:23:12.920 many groups involved in immigration and those kinds of things, 736 00:23:13.339 --> 00:23:13.680 so, 737 00:23:13.699 --> 00:23:14.180 um. 738 00:23:14.910 --> 00:23:15.489 Um 739 00:23:16.569 --> 00:23:16.959 You know, 740 00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:17.189 I, 741 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:18.689 I think there is a, 742 00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:19.000 a, 743 00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:19.479 a, 744 00:23:19.579 --> 00:23:22.760 a significant community outreach and 745 00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:24.000 Um, 746 00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:24.650 I think 747 00:23:25.430 --> 00:23:28.260 President Crowe has influenced 748 00:23:28.719 --> 00:23:30.079 the nature of. 749 00:23:31.180 --> 00:23:32.839 Education in that way. 750 00:23:33.869 --> 00:23:34.250 More, 751 00:23:34.510 --> 00:23:34.949 uh 752 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:36.680 As 753 00:23:37.280 --> 00:23:39.020 learning through service. 754 00:23:40.069 --> 00:23:40.890 Um, 755 00:23:41.430 --> 00:23:42.150 sort of model. 756 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:42.849 Um, 757 00:23:44.060 --> 00:23:44.199 I, 758 00:23:44.280 --> 00:23:46.859 I think he's not yet influenced 759 00:23:47.189 --> 00:23:49.280 the curriculum in terms of 760 00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:51.119 greater interdisciplinary. 761 00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.089 Study 762 00:23:54.030 --> 00:23:54.579 Um, 763 00:23:54.910 --> 00:23:57.569 but my own interest would be in, 764 00:23:57.989 --> 00:23:58.229 in, 765 00:23:58.329 --> 00:23:59.449 in education, 766 00:23:59.469 --> 00:23:59.969 and, 767 00:24:00.310 --> 00:24:00.869 and I think, 768 00:24:01.020 --> 00:24:01.469 you know, 769 00:24:01.829 --> 00:24:02.949 really at all levels, 770 00:24:03.069 --> 00:24:04.270 not just K through 12, 771 00:24:04.390 --> 00:24:05.930 but particularly, 772 00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:06.579 uh, 773 00:24:06.589 --> 00:24:07.770 older adult, 774 00:24:07.989 --> 00:24:08.599 uh, 775 00:24:09.150 --> 00:24:09.589 who 776 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:11.380 You know, 777 00:24:11.540 --> 00:24:12.459 love to learn and, 778 00:24:12.540 --> 00:24:13.920 and are looking for 779 00:24:15.260 --> 00:24:16.599 interesting things to do 780 00:24:16.810 --> 00:24:17.780 with their time. 781 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:18.569 This is a, 782 00:24:19.300 --> 00:24:19.459 you know, 783 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:20.959 great retirement community. 784 00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:24.619 Many of those people have time and resources to go out and 785 00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:26.800 be useful then to others. 786 00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:29.290 Homeless students or things, 787 00:24:29.790 --> 00:24:30.189 um, 788 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.339 But um 789 00:24:32.719 --> 00:24:33.819 I think uh. 790 00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:38.510 President Crowe's call to be a service to the community is 791 00:24:38.930 --> 00:24:39.319 um. 792 00:24:40.050 --> 00:24:40.689 And so 793 00:24:41.439 --> 00:24:43.160 Tremendous vision and. 794 00:24:43.790 --> 00:24:44.400 Um 795 00:24:45.449 --> 00:24:46.439 Something that 796 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.930 we're capable of having a big impact on because we're so large. 797 00:24:52.229 --> 00:24:53.719 Almost 100,000 students here. 798 00:24:55.489 --> 00:24:56.849 And then reflecting, 799 00:24:56.859 --> 00:24:57.430 um, 800 00:24:57.699 --> 00:24:59.410 on everything you've accomplished, 801 00:24:59.420 --> 00:25:01.000 specifically here at Barrett, 802 00:25:01.459 --> 00:25:03.760 when students look back and consider, 803 00:25:03.979 --> 00:25:04.510 um, 804 00:25:04.859 --> 00:25:04.979 you know, 805 00:25:05.060 --> 00:25:06.780 all of the contributions you made, 806 00:25:07.099 --> 00:25:08.260 what do you want them to take away? 807 00:25:08.339 --> 00:25:09.560 What do you want your 808 00:25:09.979 --> 00:25:12.780 final legacy to be here at Barrett in Arizona State University? 809 00:25:14.479 --> 00:25:15.810 And it's fun to learn. 810 00:25:17.849 --> 00:25:18.079 Would you, 811 00:25:18.089 --> 00:25:18.199 uh, 812 00:25:18.209 --> 00:25:19.140 elaborate on that, 813 00:25:19.890 --> 00:25:20.250 that, 814 00:25:20.260 --> 00:25:21.479 that it's fun to learn and you, 815 00:25:21.569 --> 00:25:21.869 you, 816 00:25:21.969 --> 00:25:23.849 you help your students see that or, 817 00:25:24.329 --> 00:25:24.410 well, 818 00:25:24.469 --> 00:25:25.140 I hope so. 819 00:25:26.170 --> 00:25:26.359 I mean, 820 00:25:26.420 --> 00:25:26.449 I, 821 00:25:26.569 --> 00:25:27.150 I think, 822 00:25:27.180 --> 00:25:27.689 um. 823 00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:30.939 Personally I find 824 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:31.790 that 825 00:25:33.050 --> 00:25:35.170 If I'm too focused on. 826 00:25:36.219 --> 00:25:38.920 The end goal or trying to accomplish something. 827 00:25:39.829 --> 00:25:43.270 It can be very frustrating because sometimes you're not making progress, 828 00:25:43.310 --> 00:25:44.229 and sometimes you are, 829 00:25:44.310 --> 00:25:44.890 you know, 830 00:25:45.510 --> 00:25:45.939 but 831 00:25:46.150 --> 00:25:48.069 if you're focused on what you're learning, 832 00:25:49.170 --> 00:25:51.489 It's always satisfying because you're always learning. 833 00:25:52.739 --> 00:25:53.209 And we, 834 00:25:53.300 --> 00:25:54.099 we learn, 835 00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:55.050 you know, 836 00:25:55.530 --> 00:25:57.579 it's right to say we learn by our failures, 837 00:25:57.699 --> 00:25:59.069 but it is a fact, 838 00:25:59.079 --> 00:25:59.560 and 839 00:26:00.219 --> 00:26:00.699 if, 840 00:26:00.859 --> 00:26:02.079 if you look upon 841 00:26:03.260 --> 00:26:04.920 The things that didn't work 842 00:26:05.219 --> 00:26:06.680 as part of learning, 843 00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:08.959 then it's still all success. 844 00:26:10.199 --> 00:26:10.359 You know, 845 00:26:10.439 --> 00:26:12.270 that's actually a fascinating point you made, 846 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:13.000 and I wanna 847 00:26:13.479 --> 00:26:14.540 maybe jump back, 848 00:26:14.589 --> 00:26:15.050 um, 849 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.229 and ask about that. 850 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.819 So you said you learned by your failures. 851 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:19.599 Um, 852 00:26:19.959 --> 00:26:23.250 so if you look back at your teaching career or your 853 00:26:23.479 --> 00:26:24.910 prestigious career and, 854 00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:25.400 uh, 855 00:26:25.410 --> 00:26:27.239 research in biological sciences, 856 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:27.790 uh, 857 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.040 what would you say was your most profound moment of failure and 858 00:26:31.040 --> 00:26:34.479 how did that teach you to maybe change your approach or, 859 00:26:34.760 --> 00:26:34.920 you know, 860 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:36.640 become a better learner in the process? 861 00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:38.130 Well, 862 00:26:38.250 --> 00:26:40.959 I'd say about every 10 years I 863 00:26:41.770 --> 00:26:43.290 Do something different. 864 00:26:44.349 --> 00:26:46.489 And my experience 865 00:26:46.989 --> 00:26:47.410 with 866 00:26:47.589 --> 00:26:49.680 every one of those things. 867 00:26:50.239 --> 00:26:51.540 Is that 868 00:26:52.869 --> 00:26:53.949 For the first 869 00:26:55.349 --> 00:26:56.510 Several years. 870 00:26:57.500 --> 00:26:59.449 I have this experience I call 871 00:26:59.670 --> 00:27:00.810 lost in the woods. 872 00:27:01.849 --> 00:27:02.369 Where 873 00:27:02.890 --> 00:27:05.469 I'm wandering around trying to figure out 874 00:27:05.890 --> 00:27:06.969 how to 875 00:27:08.689 --> 00:27:11.650 Learn or do whatever it is I'm trying to accomplish. 876 00:27:12.430 --> 00:27:15.569 And that it takes several years of 877 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.369 frustration 878 00:27:17.670 --> 00:27:18.300 and 879 00:27:19.199 --> 00:27:19.979 Search, 880 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:20.959 um, 881 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.420 before I find a path. 882 00:27:23.609 --> 00:27:26.359 And that's why we call our center Pathfinder Center, 883 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:27.180 because, 884 00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:28.310 um, 885 00:27:28.969 --> 00:27:32.030 I think that is the goal is to 886 00:27:33.770 --> 00:27:35.420 To be in search of 887 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.280 and eventually find the path you're looking for. 888 00:27:39.010 --> 00:27:39.420 Right, 889 00:27:39.890 --> 00:27:41.369 and so for me that's, 890 00:27:41.650 --> 00:27:41.849 you know, 891 00:27:42.010 --> 00:27:42.750 typically, 892 00:27:43.569 --> 00:27:44.079 You know, 893 00:27:44.310 --> 00:27:45.630 5 years of, 894 00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:48.180 of exploring and searching and 895 00:27:48.810 --> 00:27:51.260 then hopefully 5 years of 896 00:27:51.609 --> 00:27:53.089 useful productivity. 897 00:27:53.949 --> 00:27:57.800 What advice would you give to people who haven't found their path yet? 898 00:27:59.510 --> 00:28:00.189 Um, 899 00:28:02.619 --> 00:28:03.630 Two things is, 900 00:28:03.709 --> 00:28:04.089 is, 901 00:28:04.219 --> 00:28:05.650 is be patient. 902 00:28:06.910 --> 00:28:08.750 Even when the rest of the world isn't, 903 00:28:08.829 --> 00:28:12.310 when the rest of the world is asking you to be productive and you're not ready yet, 904 00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:13.770 be patient with yourself. 905 00:28:14.790 --> 00:28:15.949 And secondly, 906 00:28:16.069 --> 00:28:17.010 trust yourself. 907 00:28:18.469 --> 00:28:19.290 Because 908 00:28:19.849 --> 00:28:21.170 you can't be 909 00:28:21.750 --> 00:28:22.550 creative. 910 00:28:23.770 --> 00:28:26.890 By trying to do what other people think you should be doing. 911 00:28:27.910 --> 00:28:31.160 It it has to come organically from yourself, 912 00:28:31.750 --> 00:28:35.140 and it's a painful process and requires a lot of patience, 913 00:28:35.150 --> 00:28:35.609 and 914 00:28:35.770 --> 00:28:36.829 so those are the two things, 915 00:28:36.949 --> 00:28:37.589 be patient. 916 00:28:39.819 --> 00:28:39.959 Julie, 917 00:28:40.020 --> 00:28:42.069 do you have any additional questions you'd like to ask? 918 00:28:42.479 --> 00:28:42.680 Sure, 919 00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:42.959 I, 920 00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:43.949 I have a few. 921 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.280 So Doctor Hartwell, 922 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.430 you talked to us about why you came to Baird and how you ended up here, 923 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:51.239 but what has kept you here? 924 00:28:53.150 --> 00:28:53.630 Um, 925 00:28:53.709 --> 00:28:53.869 well, 926 00:28:53.949 --> 00:28:55.469 I'm still searching, 927 00:28:56.469 --> 00:28:59.790 so I'm about 10 years now into this education thing. 928 00:28:59.869 --> 00:29:02.329 We had an initial success because 929 00:29:03.020 --> 00:29:03.359 Um, 930 00:29:03.520 --> 00:29:04.310 it was really 931 00:29:05.699 --> 00:29:08.069 Quite amusing in hindsight is 932 00:29:08.449 --> 00:29:08.609 I, 933 00:29:08.689 --> 00:29:11.109 I came here with the intention of 934 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:12.709 teaching, 935 00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:13.650 um, 936 00:29:15.290 --> 00:29:17.430 Future teachers about sustainability. 937 00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:19.199 And 938 00:29:19.410 --> 00:29:20.010 um. 939 00:29:21.589 --> 00:29:22.709 From what I know now, 940 00:29:23.109 --> 00:29:23.939 that was 941 00:29:25.300 --> 00:29:25.859 Um 942 00:29:27.890 --> 00:29:28.520 Pie in the sky, 943 00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:30.180 I mean that would not have worked 944 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.660 if I hadn't arrived at a particular moment in time 945 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:34.619 when 946 00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:35.540 the. 947 00:29:36.510 --> 00:29:36.989 Uh, 948 00:29:37.150 --> 00:29:40.209 Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College had received 949 00:29:40.510 --> 00:29:44.550 a critical review because they didn't have enough content in their program. 950 00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:45.790 It was all pedagogy. 951 00:29:46.780 --> 00:29:50.000 And so they were organizing a lot of 952 00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:51.280 faculty 953 00:29:51.859 --> 00:29:53.260 to create courses, 954 00:29:53.660 --> 00:29:55.739 content courses for their students. 955 00:29:56.479 --> 00:29:58.839 And I came at just the right moment, 956 00:29:59.239 --> 00:30:02.420 and we were the only ones who created a content course. 957 00:30:03.390 --> 00:30:05.489 And so it became required 958 00:30:05.709 --> 00:30:06.790 for all of their students. 959 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:08.780 Um, 960 00:30:09.140 --> 00:30:09.900 but the, 961 00:30:09.979 --> 00:30:10.790 the real 962 00:30:11.869 --> 00:30:14.609 Big umbrella question that I'm 963 00:30:14.890 --> 00:30:16.150 trying to understand is, 964 00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:17.089 is how 965 00:30:18.339 --> 00:30:20.119 Should we train students for the future? 966 00:30:21.540 --> 00:30:22.050 And, 967 00:30:22.219 --> 00:30:23.319 and I feel like I'm 968 00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:25.439 beginning to get my arms around that. 969 00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:26.800 And, 970 00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:27.489 um, 971 00:30:27.819 --> 00:30:28.339 and. 972 00:30:30.170 --> 00:30:30.780 Pretty. 973 00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:34.959 Enthusiastic and engaged now about having. 974 00:30:35.760 --> 00:30:38.180 Maybe a more productive few years 975 00:30:38.760 --> 00:30:39.540 doing that. 976 00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:41.880 So bouncing that question back to you, 977 00:30:41.959 --> 00:30:44.780 how do you think that we should be training students for the future? 978 00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:46.069 Um, 979 00:30:46.229 --> 00:30:46.349 well, 980 00:30:46.390 --> 00:30:47.750 I think it's to be learners. 981 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:50.170 It's that simple. 982 00:30:51.089 --> 00:30:52.030 Um, 983 00:30:52.489 --> 00:30:52.869 but. 984 00:30:54.969 --> 00:30:56.390 There's a lot involved there. 985 00:30:57.699 --> 00:30:57.709 Right. 986 00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:00.180 And 987 00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:04.079 you were talking earlier about how you give your students a lot of freedom 988 00:31:04.300 --> 00:31:06.160 regarding what they want to study and research. 989 00:31:06.489 --> 00:31:09.660 Do you think that all teachers should give their students that much freedom? 990 00:31:10.939 --> 00:31:11.650 Um, 991 00:31:11.819 --> 00:31:12.500 I don't know. 992 00:31:12.650 --> 00:31:13.050 That's, 993 00:31:13.219 --> 00:31:13.810 that's a, 994 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:14.229 a, 995 00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:17.010 a subtle question because 996 00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:20.819 There certainly are skills that students need. 997 00:31:21.780 --> 00:31:22.550 Um, 998 00:31:22.790 --> 00:31:22.939 you, 999 00:31:23.020 --> 00:31:25.239 you need to know how to 1000 00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:25.949 write, 1001 00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:27.239 how to express yourself, 1002 00:31:27.459 --> 00:31:27.859 how to 1003 00:31:28.810 --> 00:31:29.489 Um, 1004 00:31:30.229 --> 00:31:32.040 find information you need, 1005 00:31:32.380 --> 00:31:32.800 um, 1006 00:31:34.209 --> 00:31:34.780 Um 1007 00:31:35.630 --> 00:31:36.130 And 1008 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:38.599 You know, 1009 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:39.800 if you're an engineer. 1010 00:31:40.530 --> 00:31:41.709 You need a lot of 1011 00:31:42.010 --> 00:31:42.729 math and. 1012 00:31:44.250 --> 00:31:44.729 Physics, 1013 00:31:44.849 --> 00:31:45.250 you know, 1014 00:31:45.369 --> 00:31:45.949 um, 1015 00:31:46.530 --> 00:31:47.239 so 1016 00:31:47.969 --> 00:31:48.969 there's this question of, 1017 00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:49.369 you know, 1018 00:31:49.489 --> 00:31:51.949 how much emphasis on skills training, 1019 00:31:52.489 --> 00:31:54.469 which might be more directed, 1020 00:31:54.849 --> 00:31:56.750 and how much emphasis on 1021 00:31:57.250 --> 00:31:57.709 sort of 1022 00:31:58.969 --> 00:31:59.430 Um, 1023 00:31:59.569 --> 00:32:01.410 exploring your interests. 1024 00:32:02.510 --> 00:32:03.040 Um, 1025 00:32:03.239 --> 00:32:05.719 and the best of all is to try to combine those two. 1026 00:32:06.500 --> 00:32:07.150 Where 1027 00:32:08.060 --> 00:32:10.099 You learn the skills as you need them. 1028 00:32:11.229 --> 00:32:11.390 You know, 1029 00:32:11.510 --> 00:32:12.010 rather than, 1030 00:32:12.189 --> 00:32:12.430 you know, 1031 00:32:12.510 --> 00:32:14.910 it's rather than taking a course in. 1032 00:32:15.930 --> 00:32:17.020 And calculus. 1033 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:18.560 You know 1034 00:32:19.310 --> 00:32:20.670 Would it make sense to 1035 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:23.839 Have an education where 1036 00:32:24.199 --> 00:32:26.060 you learn calculus when you needed it. 1037 00:32:27.670 --> 00:32:28.619 I don't know, 1038 00:32:29.060 --> 00:32:29.250 I mean, 1039 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:30.750 I think those those are 1040 00:32:31.180 --> 00:32:32.709 big questions for 1041 00:32:32.859 --> 00:32:34.180 the future of education. 1042 00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:39.239 But certainly a good proportion of a student's experience 1043 00:32:39.500 --> 00:32:40.160 should be. 1044 00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:41.859 Um, 1045 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.099 exploring their own interests, 1046 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:45.800 where they have 1047 00:32:46.630 --> 00:32:48.270 A lot more motivation. 1048 00:32:49.109 --> 00:32:49.770 To 1049 00:32:50.050 --> 00:32:51.390 learn and 1050 00:32:51.569 --> 00:32:53.910 go beyond what they're capable of. 1051 00:32:54.699 --> 00:32:57.260 Than they do when they're just working for a grade. 1052 00:32:58.800 --> 00:32:59.859 I have one more question. 1053 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.680 So if there is a prospective ASU and Barrett student listening to this, 1054 00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:06.739 why should they choose to come here? 1055 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:09.680 Um, 1056 00:33:10.849 --> 00:33:11.010 Well, 1057 00:33:11.130 --> 00:33:11.250 I, 1058 00:33:11.329 --> 00:33:17.770 I think Barrett creates a great environment for students to develop. 1059 00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:19.130 Um, 1060 00:33:19.300 --> 00:33:21.719 there's a very interesting time in, 1061 00:33:22.099 --> 00:33:22.520 in 1062 00:33:23.979 --> 00:33:25.079 Human development, 1063 00:33:25.939 --> 00:33:26.520 um, 1064 00:33:26.939 --> 00:33:30.020 these years between high school and, 1065 00:33:30.300 --> 00:33:30.540 you know, 1066 00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.040 graduating from university is 4 years, 1067 00:33:33.540 --> 00:33:34.079 and 1068 00:33:34.849 --> 00:33:36.430 If you don't. 1069 00:33:37.339 --> 00:33:39.439 If you're not in a university environment, 1070 00:33:39.540 --> 00:33:39.939 then. 1071 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:42.540 You're out working somewhere, 1072 00:33:43.040 --> 00:33:43.479 um, 1073 00:33:44.770 --> 00:33:44.890 You, 1074 00:33:45.260 --> 00:33:45.420 you, 1075 00:33:45.579 --> 00:33:45.780 you, 1076 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:48.140 you come out with just a different mindset. 1077 00:33:49.209 --> 00:33:52.079 To spend those 4 years in an environment where 1078 00:33:53.170 --> 00:33:54.589 learning is 1079 00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:55.939 The 1080 00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:59.280 Preeminent activity. 1081 00:34:00.239 --> 00:34:02.219 And thinking about 1082 00:34:02.550 --> 00:34:03.550 the future and, 1083 00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:05.709 and how to improve the world and things are, 1084 00:34:05.719 --> 00:34:06.189 are. 1085 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:08.780 The things people talk about. 1086 00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:10.350 Um 1087 00:34:11.989 --> 00:34:14.379 Just form formulates you as an adult, 1088 00:34:14.429 --> 00:34:16.350 I think in a completely different way. 1089 00:34:17.197 --> 00:34:17.748 Um. 1090 00:34:18.870 --> 00:34:19.350 So, 1091 00:34:19.629 --> 00:34:19.790 you know, 1092 00:34:19.870 --> 00:34:21.050 that's why I go to university, 1093 00:34:21.270 --> 00:34:21.570 but. 1094 00:34:22.649 --> 00:34:23.090 But I, 1095 00:34:23.168 --> 00:34:25.270 I think you want to go to a university where. 1096 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:30.260 The environment encourages you to be everything you can be. 1097 00:34:31.539 --> 00:34:32.158 And 1098 00:34:32.889 --> 00:34:33.540 Um, 1099 00:34:33.918 --> 00:34:36.120 and I think Barrett does a pretty good job of that. 1100 00:34:37.560 --> 00:34:37.958 Thank you. 1101 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:38.639 Well, 1102 00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:39.478 Doctor Hartwell, 1103 00:34:39.560 --> 00:34:40.938 I think that's an excellent, 1104 00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:41.389 uh, 1105 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.149 sentiment to conclude on here. 1106 00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:43.760 Uh, 1107 00:34:43.918 --> 00:34:45.879 so on behalf of myself, 1108 00:34:45.958 --> 00:34:46.500 um, 1109 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:47.120 you know, 1110 00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:48.600 Dean Foot and Julie, 1111 00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:50.958 I'd like to thank you for your participation today and 1112 00:34:50.958 --> 00:34:53.739 for sharing your brilliant insights on all these issues. 1113 00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:56.719 If you have any more thoughts to share later, 1114 00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:58.239 please feel free to reach out. 1115 00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:00.280 And if you have any questions about this 1116 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:03.219 interview or the 30th anniversary Oral History Project, 1117 00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:03.790 uh, 1118 00:35:03.879 --> 00:35:05.760 please contact Vice Dean Nicola Foote, 1119 00:35:05.770 --> 00:35:06.439 and thank you once again, 1120 00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:06.669 sir. 1121 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:07.320 We appreciate it. 1122 00:35:08.169 --> 00:35:08.659 Thank you.