We're just doing some volume stuff right now too, right? So, um, this is
Boris Solis interviewing for Creative Push project on December 13 16th at
um 7:15 p.m. And could you introduce yourself and tell us your age? Uh, my
name is Amanda Bird. I'm 43. Excellent. Can you tell us your name and your
age? I'm Mary a beta. I'm 42 years old. Excellent.
I think so. This is, this is beautiful. We actually have not interviewed
like sisters or people together.
So if you could take us back to um your births, did your mother or your
grandmother or anyone tell you about your births? Or like preparing you
for pregnancy. No, no, no, not, I mean, when you, your actual birth. When
I was, yes. Did your parents tell you about that? I don't think it was
funny. This actually came up um with my daughter. Um, I don't know if it
was yesterday. Lynn asked how was Lynn, my daughter is in her 3rd year at
the University of New Mexico, so she's doing a similar project like this,
and so her and I have to talk about her birth and so um our birth earlier
, um, I was trying to remember where I was born. I think we were born in
Albuquerque so that I've never heard how we were born. But, um, and that's
a good question. And so, but like I said, um, my, my oldest daughter,
she'll be turning 21, so she was wondering how was I born? And so the
funny part about her being born was we got pulled over on the way to the
hospital. And so, so that was the and my grandma was still here at the
time because she's my oldest child. And so um I remember um I told her, I
remember having her and my contractions started about 4 in the morning and
then I just kind of just waited cause we were living, my sister and I live
with my grandmother and kind of just Oh, you know, should I tell her now?
Should I tell her now, and, or, you know, let them know I'm I'm ready to
go. And so we went up about 6 in the morning and we normally had our
children in Santa Fe, New Mexico and so because that's where the Indian
hospital is and so we got in, um, her dad, my mom, my grandmother, and I
started to go up to the hospital. It was 6 in the morning, so we're
heading to Santa Fe, so maybe about a block away we got pulled over. And
then the police officer asked, oh, my boyfriend, and he said, well, why
are you driving so fast? She's having a baby, you know, we just, and my
grandma's like, you know, why are they pulling us over? You know, you're
knowing that you're having a baby. So like we were like I said, a block
away from the hospital and we got a police escort to the hospital because
we were, I was in labor. And so I was telling my daughter that earlier, I
said, you are unique. I said, I mean, we started early, but she wasn't
born till 2:29 in the afternoon. And so she took a little while cause she
was my first. Um, were you, did you have your first before you, the first
, my sister, yeah, I did. You had the first with the first baby in your
family. Yeah, yeah, my niece Kiana, yeah. Did your mother or grandmother
prepare you for birth? Did they say this is what you're going to
experience and how do you say I think just conversations we had with our
grandmother was, you know, like how self-care, being pregnant. Um,
culturally and um just physically, how you would take care of yourself as
as a woman. Um, going to make sure you went to, um, your prenatal, taking
care of yourselves, um, talking to your baby occasionally and because
you're connected that way, um, always knowing that, um. That that being is
growing, you know, and it's with you um through everything, you know, no
matter um what's going on in your life and um. You know what you're
experiencing the child is feeling. So, um, I think just conversations our
grandma would have with us sometimes always saying one, I I remember one
just just off the top of my head, her saying, you know, um, When we
started, relationships are always, you know, reminding, you know, be
careful. I remember that and I remember I got lectured for it, but I think
through the years, um. I guess without her guidance, you know, I use her
words today, you know, and it means a lot to my sister and I, and so um
she was a large, she was our mother. And our real mom left us. Yeah, so
our grandma was our mother, so a lot of and I'm thankful, you know, um for
the wisdom she shared and a lot of the things that she cautioned us and
then as a teen or as a young, you know, adult, um, you tend to not listen.
But today I don't think we would be strong parents
um if we didn't have her um advice. So, um, but basically, you know, it
was always her, you know, reminding us, you know, and, um, and I think
that's where our parenting comes from. It's not easy. It's not, especially
, you know, when here on the pueblo. Yeah. Why is that? It's just, you
know.
Certain things are, you know, just us women, you know, um. I guess, you
know, um.
One of, you know, one of the things that. And just being able to um. I
guess cope with the fact that you're having a child. Um, some of our
community members have children early. And I think that's kind of um. I
mean, I wasn't that old. I was 21 years old. Today that's old compared to
our 14 and sometimes 15 year olds and younger.
And so, and I think the reason in a way um speaking about our grandmother
is um Responsibility, we tend to have been responsible early. Um, my
oldest, like, like I said, she didn't have to babysit her siblings. We did.
We took on big roles as the older grandchildren. And I don't, I think if
if we didn't, um. We wouldn't be where we were, we're at today in a sense.
And so, um, not just um. Parenting, but also being able to um. Be
self-employed, how to self sustain yourself. Um, yeah, we were learning
about that. Your husband was saying how your skills have been passed down
from generation to generation.
Did your grandmother from the photo and then um like my brother's family,
um, farming. Farming and and I'm grateful, you know, to a lot of the um a
lot of how he plays a role in in my son's life um, he's we all tend to
take on that, uh, parent figure because um my children are just as much as
my sister's children and her children are just as much as mine and so um
we're equally responsible for that and so and that helps because of the
support in parenting. Because it is tough to discipline, it's tough to be
able to have conversations because this our generation of children are
different from how we grew up. How is that support impacted your parenting
having your sister nearby and.
I mean, it's been great cause I've always just had her besides my
grandmother. It's just her and I. Although I am the oldest of 6, but my
other siblings were not as close as her and I, because our mom took those
siblings with her and we were left with our grandmother. Are you closest
in age? Yeah, a year and a half apart. Yeah. Me and my sister too, we were
close like that. We had much younger siblings and a single mother, and so
we became kind of a team and it's a really special relationship. And I
think that that's one of the that closeness. My children are 8 years apart
, and I wish I sometimes think, why did I wait that long? Because of, you
know, you want to be able to have someone, but they're all, you know, in,
in, in their own way, they're close. Um, like I said, my oldest didn't
have to really um babysit and she doesn't see, she just doesn't, you know
, there she's the oldest and I think the roles that we tend to play as
older siblings is Where we then become responsible for the younger ones
being able to guide and being able to support. We do have two younger
sisters and 2 younger brothers, so, um, I, there's a brother behind me, 2
sisters and a, and a younger whip, my youngest brother, and so, um, so
there's a difference in our small family is small because our the rest of
our siblings work and go to school. And you know they're out in the urban.
We're here on the on the reservation in the community. And so it it's
also challenging having to educate the ones that are urban. In language
and culture because they're missing a part of it by not being being here
so um so that's important, you know, I have the younger girls, they're 4
and um language is very important because it it helps to sustain who we
are. And um and culture participating in our dances and being part of our
ceremonies is very important is that it sustains who we are but not just
that um it's the strength that comes from it's the resiliency they say is
is just like church it it creates that spirituality. And the resiliency
and so that it helps to um helps our children to make better choices you
know if they're resilient then they won't take as much risks but then on
the other side risks are good because you know you're not always gonna be
there when they fall. And so, so I think um a lot of the what the
community provides in language culture. Um, is important because they are
going to be that next generation, um, you know, after we, you know, move
on. So a lot of it is important and, but you see a lot of um Gender roles
change today. Um, I'm actually I'm a newly, I'm a women's, I'm a victim's
advocate in the community. Um, I'm a sexual assault victims advocate.
Um,
It's something that, um, go ahead, I'm sorry. No, I was asking, how have
the women's roles changed, you were saying. I think that um.
I think just the roles are still there, but I think that our how we
respect those roles are changing because you, you know, our one example is
um tattoos for instance it's not something that's uh culturally
appropriate um because as women we play roles uh culturally and who we we
were bearers of children we're very special people because we we're the
ones that. Um, have children, and it's a very special role to have
children, and some people, some women don't. But when you bear children,
um. It it's something that it's just what a woman should do and some don't
, you know, and that's fine. Um, but I think a lot, but I think what we
tend not to do is educate our younger women, so we can't say it's not
there, but we have to educate and share. Um, what roles, what etiquette,
what's expected. If we don't share, you know, um, then we can expect from
them. So a lot of it goes back to um having those discussions about what's
appropriate, which I know the younger generation say oh you guys are old
fashioned but I think just like when we were talking about our
grandmothers that it's this where we're, you know, expressing or teaching
our children what we thought we probably wouldn't hear at the time. And so
, but I mean it's interesting when you think well what what grandma say or
grandma help me with this because I don't know how to talk to my children
right now or how do I love them, how do I care for them? I'm struggling
and so um so so you tend to reach out a lot and so, but I think that um.
Just having that, having her in our lives taught us a lot and one just
that bond we had as as her being our mother was big, yeah, played a big
role. So she was there when you were pregnant with your first child first
did um.
Did you change any of your behaviors during the pregnancy, any, any? Ways
that, um, you know, did you? Start walking or you know, eating differently
or doing anything. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did start eating
differently. We tried to walk my boyfriend at the time, but
But I mean, the excitement, I mean, having.
So you were excited about the pregnancy. I was, yeah. Did you, how soon
did you know you were pregnant?
Mm. Maybe about a month. Yeah, found out right away. So did you just miss
your first period and then you, yeah, yeah. So I went and that's what it
was. I kind of thought, yeah, I went to the doctor, got things checked out
and that's what they told me. Yeah, so I have my daughter. How was
pregnancy?
I say it was a pretty good. I mean, considering it was, you know, my first
time and. I try to take care of myself and like I said, my grandmother
used to. You know, let us know, you know, you don't eat too much of that
and this, but you know. But otherwise, yeah, we, I tried it. You know, I
take care of myself. Nowadays, I feel like with women being pregnant,
there's so many things that we're afraid of, you know about because we
know so much, you know, I'm afraid of birth defects or afraid of, you know
, um things that can go wrong. Did you think about any of those things or
were you just excited about the process and I, I think I was just excited
about the process. Yeah, I think that's nice. I wish, I wish we didn't
know as much as we do now to some degree, you know, because it puts so
much fear in our mind.
So did you always know you were going to have give birth in the hospital?
Yeah. Mhm. How far away is the hospital from where you were? Uh, about an
hour. It's about 45 minutes from here to Santa Fe. Yeah, at the time it
was in Santa Fe. That's a drive. Did you have to think about that when you
planned on.
Well, Albuquerque further,
but I, but I think that um like you said, um, you, you don't wanna
overthink. I think culturally we're, we're um educated to not overthink
where we don't pack a bag, we don't, I mean, we go to prenatal care, we go
to ultrasounds. I don't even know if I even packed the bag for when I had
the twins because um. It was just, I mean, it was just, I mean, when you,
I like, like I said, I had for my first one. I felt the contractions. I
knew I was, my body was getting ready, um. My second one I went. My second
, when my son was born, I went to work. I I started my contractions. I
started in, I was in labor at 6 in the morning with my son. I went to a
prenatal appointment in Santa Fe in the morning with my cousin. We ate
lunch and went back to work at one o'clock. I was still in labor. And I
clocked out. I came back after work and I told my sister, uh, I think it's
time and this was a little after 5. I probably ended up going to the
hospital about close to 7 that night. Um, my son was born at 9:43 that
night. That's how quick um you, you tend to, it's not a sickness, it's not
something that um that in culturally where, you know, don't get scared or
like I said, don't overthink it or don't, don't worry because a lot of
that stress and that worry goes to the baby. And um And and always like I
said, talking to your children. Um, And so the preparedness we prepare but
we don't prepare like in the Western culture where we don't prepare even
um we don't have baby showers until the baby is born we don't we don't buy
certain things um it used to be said that um you wouldn't find out the
gender but now today you go to an ultrasound do you wanna know and they're
like no but. And you, you tend to already find out my son, I didn't know I
was having a boy. Lynn, my first daughter Lindsay, I don't think I knew I
was having a girl, but with the twins I knew. Did you know the sex of your
first? There were no ultrasounds, um, there was, but I told them that we,
I didn't want to find out. Yeah, so it goes back to culture, you know, it
goes back to the culture is, you know, whatever, you know, um, God blesses
you with and. You know your children are special, you know, and so yeah.
Had you with your first birth, had you had a name picked out? No, because
even that we're not allowed to, we don't name our children. We we pick
godparents for them and they they'll name our children because we're
Catholic as well, so um all our children are are baptized and so the
godparents will name our children. Mhm. So, but that, that's the respect,
you know, it's culture goes back to the culture and so, um, because the
godparents are also supporters of of our children, they're equally as we
are as the parents to to our children. Yes, it, it's, it goes also to show
that sense of community and we were looking at the wedding photos and this
idea of sponsors for your wedding. Can you explain that or talk about your
weddings?
Well, we, we choose the couple that's gonna sponsor our weddings so that
they, they, we make them as our parents, yeah, they're our parents they're
going to guide them as a couple, as, um, and so then then you go back to
extended families and so um we're all intertwined. Yeah, the photos
there's the sponsors of the sponsors it's really lovely so that you know
just again that embeddedness in the community and having your support
network and it gives you that that like yeah, you said that support
network that you know that you'll have someone to advise if you know you
need it and and and along those same lines as um it does get, you know, we
do go. There sometimes our roads are rocky and we need someone and then
along the same lines to celebrate and to be able to um support in in the
good and the bad times. And so the same thing with being a godparent um my
uh my brother's sister, I uh baptized her daughter, so, um, so I'm equally
responsible, you know, to help support, um, and advice and, you know. And
and do whatever it is I can to help mom. And um but she's in Phoenix, so.
I miss her so yeah, so but, but I guess you know along those same lines to
help support that um you're not doing this. I don't think at any rate, um
, in our community you you wanna attempt to feel you're alone. Um, because
you would hope to have that someone in your support network to help you or
to talk to. So it, it kind of goes along those same lines, just like
siblings, you know, you you, you wouldn't have done it if you didn't have
siblings or if you didn't have cousins or people you grew up with and so
yeah, that closeness is important, yeah, or that togetherness. I think
that's the biggest thing in our community, that togetherness. Um, being
able to um. Yeah, appreciate that togetherness, yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's
a beautiful idea and. And practice.
When you had your first baby, since that was the first baby, you know,
here, did um. I assume you had the baby vaginally and everything was OK.
Yeah, she was just small. She only weighed 4 or 9.
Yeah, and she's tall. No, um, he had taken me to an appointment too. Uh,
we came home. He went to go do his thing at his, the, uh, ranch, and then
I was home with my grandma. And it was towards the evening, huh, I usually
go sit outside with my grandmother. And
I, I couldn't sit sit still for some reason, and she noticed right away
cause my grandma was asking me, are you OK? And she can't, are you sure
you're not, you know, is it time? No, I'm OK. I told her, you know.
Then finally said, no, no, mom, it, it hurts. I told her.
And then my cousin used to live with us. So then um I couldn't reach him.
So then my cousin drove me up to the hospital. Yeah.
But did your grandmother meet you there? or were you there with no,
no, so yeah, it's a yeah, I think our mom was there at the time. Yeah, but
anyway she went, but otherwise, uh, then he came later. My daughter was
born then, so.
So I assumed you had the baby and then they took her out and said, It's a
girl. Yeah, yeah. That's what it was. What was, what were your feelings
about that? I was happy. I mean, yeah, it felt good to have her out now,
and yeah, just to hear the cry. Mhm. Yeah, what did, what did she look
like to you? I mean, what do you remember her face as a baby?
Yeah, she looked like her looked like her dad a lot.
Had you nourished or did you bottle feed? Um, I tried to breastfeed, but I
guess I wasn't producing much. So I had um.
Um, they gave me, um, you know how they give you the packs from um the
hospital, so I tried that on her and she went. Went on the bottle.
Yeah, nursing is a challenge. I only had one breast that made milk.
One day, I tried.
Well, when you have twins that you and and when they ask me, are you going
to breastfeed? Are you kidding? I said, no.
I probably only try one day at the hospital and. I just, I couldn't do it.
And I was honest and I can't do it. Just just because and then culturally
I didn't know the culturally and then I know that breastfeeding is the
best way for our children to be nourished and It's just probably was not
something that I mean I couldn't I think I did it with my son I can't
remember, but the majority of my, I think I did it when I had my son I
probably breastfed him a month and then the rest of my children, all my
children are bottle fed. Yeah, so, but so let's get back to your story. So
you were police escorted to or to the hospital. Oh yeah, this is with the
twins? No, no, this was my first child, and so, um, so that that birth
wasn't that long. We got there probably about 6:30 in the morning. She was
born at 2:29 in the afternoon, so she's my afternoon child. Uh, my son is
my nighttime child. He was born before 10. He was actually born the day
before my birthday. And so he and I almost came to be have the same
birthday. And so him and I, um, uh, because we're Scorpios, we don't get
along sometimes. So just because of our nature, I guess. Um, the girls, um.
Gosh, I was, well, how old I was I? 37 at the time, 36. I hadn't had
children like I say, all my children 8 years apart. And so when Dontrell
was born, Darell was gonna be, I think 8 going on 8. The girls were born
in April. And so, um, when Don Trell was turning 8, I, I was carrying the
girls, the, the twins. Um, Funny thing, same thing going up for a going in
for a routine exam. Um, funny thing about that is I got to see them. That
small. There were dogs. And And I remember the lady, she was from this art
community, you know, she just walked in, just her eyes all like, what? I
said, what's wrong? What? And she was like, twice, she goes, twice. I did
the, did the test twice. Are you pregnant, she goes like, oh my, am I, you
did the test. And then she says I saw too. And so OK. And to react to have
been told to have twins.
Uh
It was amazing, I guess in a sense. I guess in I wasn't so much worried as
far as um. You know, like you can't ask how did this happen, um, then, but
um, was just like. I remember that that day and I was waiting and I sat
there and I was like. So what do I expect? How does that feel? Um, one, it
was also, and, you know, through the months carrying them, you know, they
say you're high risk. Um, but through the months, they started to grow,
having to go to exams and, you know, being able to Um, I never really, I
guess I took care of myself, you know, taking my vitamins, especially
having twins. I went to my my checkups. Um, I didn't really too much of an
extent watch what I ate because I felt like everything I ate was
everything they were eating. So a lot of the things the girls like to eat
is what I ate already when I was carrying them. Um, I worked all the way
to the day I delivered them. Um, and so same thing, um. I used to drive a
long bed truck. I used to drive a 15 passenger van. I worked to the day I
worked to the days. My first one, I didn't, I don't know if I worked with
my first one. I can't remember. My second son, my second child, I worked,
I was at work and then I clocked out and was ready to go have my son, um,
with the same thing with the girls, went to a prenatal exam that morning.
Um, I was at work that day. Um, and I don't remember some things were
happening at at work and I told my coworkers I'm gonna leave you all
behind. I'm not coming back tomorrow. This is, I think, a Thursday, and so
, you know, I'm, I'm gonna go have my girls this evening and so and so I'm
not coming back. I'll see you guys in two months or so and so but um but I
think just the experience was hard. One of my daughters was um. When I was
getting, we were getting close to about, I want to say 6 months. Um, we
went to an ultrasound and we were told one of my daughters was um the
umbilical cord was wrapping around her arm. And so my daughter was one of
my daughters was born with MDM syndrome.
Her, her arm didn't fully grow. And so, um, she has a kind of she has a,
we call her hand baby hand. And so she's got uh digits. So her, her, the
wrist, she's got her arms about this long and her her fingers and her arms
didn't grow fully. And so.
I don't know if.
I can't say how we how to have reacted to that. Um, Because I guess. I
don't know what other people would have expected to have her be perfect,
knowing that. You know, That that we had to understand. But um, but she
came to this world and um she goes to school. They've been going to school
for ever since they were 3 months old because I went back to work. Um, if
I didn't send them to school, especially Katie is the one that has the
amnionic band syndrome, um. I don't think she she completely adjusted well.
A lot of people have suggested us to get a prosthetic, but. I don't think
it's necessary because we accept her fully. Um, she's a whole child to us
and especially twins have a powerful nature in our culture. And so, um,
and, and there isn't anything um. At 4 years old, she can't do that, uh,
whatever you call a normal child does. And so, um, but I think that was in
a way shocking. But in a way, you know what what could we have done, you
know, what did we do? But then it goes back to genetics, it goes back to
all these things, DNA, whatever. And so, but, but we knew, you know, her
her dad and I knew, and I can't remember if I told my family, but um, but
she came into this world. And she's here with us now. And so, um, you know
, seeing her dance today and, you know, the things she can do, and there
isn't anything she can't do. I guess I'm just worried more about the world
and people and how they accept her. But she's much, you know, she's she's
happy. So, um, but it's just hard to. And and the kids she goes to school
with, you know, they, kids in their own way tend to always understand more
than us as adults. And so So that's what the kids call her, um her arm is
her call her baby head. And she, that's what she calls her baby head, and
she'll hug you, she'll, she can feel with her digits. So she'll rub your
face and she'll, you know, she's a loving child and so. So my experience
with um with that was, it was hard, but. You know, I guess in, in my way,
we, we accepted her from, from that, you know, from the beginning. And,
and I'm sure they might have been something they could have done. But But
why? I said, what, what, you know, what, why do we have to, you know, she
didn't come, she did come with 10 fingers, 10 toes. And maybe not to
everybody that that's that obvious, but um to us she did come that way.
And so, and then and like I said, I can't really say whether it was
genetics or if it was um what it was, but. There really was no point in
trying to find out because, you know, irregardless of whatever facts, you
know, we, you know, we accepted her. And and it's the same thing God gave.
God sent her to us that way. And maybe to us it's something, well, let's
see how they'll take care of her. Will they take care of her? Will they
push her away? But Katie is, is so special. Katie just, she loves to, to
draw. She loves to color. Um, she's a little more um. Down to earth than
the other twin, the other twin, she's wild, but um, but I guess in our own
way, you wouldn't have it any other way if you're, if your kids don't
drive you crazy, then you're not happy. If, if you wouldn't have the
uniqueness of all of them around you, um, that life wouldn't be the same.
And so, but I think, I think that was probably the hardest pregnancy I've
ever had. Um, with was with my twins. My first two were um they were um
vaginally born, but with the girls because I was a high risk pregnancy,
plus Katie didn't turn, so she was high, and then she was breech. Casey
was low and, you know, in that in that position. But Katie, she just never
wanted to turn and I I think it was about 27 weeks. Um, so once she turned
and then went back the week later. I'm not doing this, you know, I'm not
turning, you know, and even to the point when we had ultrasounds, she
would never let them take her, take her picture. But the funny thing when
I watch them sleep at night is I see their nose. I remember her little
button nose and just that little round the silhouette of her, her first
side face and Casey is almost similar, but Katie was always the one that
she would hide and she would turn and you know, she would, she would
always like trick everybody but so, so with the twins, um, I had a
C-section.
Uh, wasn't the greatest experience, um, because, um. I, I assumed they
watched, you know, once you're sedated or once you're numb, I guess you
watch. I don't, I didn't get to have that experience because um I was
taken in to have the girls um I was, I was dilated, but I knew I was
having a C-section anyway. I knew I was having a vaginal birth, but, and
this was like 2. 3 o'clock 2 let's say 2 in the morning because it went
really it apparently it went really quick, but I don't remember um but
what I really what I, what really traumatizes me even today is they um
they numbed my body but they cut me before I was numb. And And they cut me
twice. And I was telling my boyfriend, tell them I'm not numb, don't tell
them to cut me anymore because I remember they cut me on this side. And
then my body wasn't numb yet. Then they finally had to sedate me. And then
they had to, he had to leave the room. And then I asked, and I even, you
know, some days the trauma comes back because um I don't, I didn't know
what happened. And then I asked my boy, were you in there? He goes, no, I
had to leave because they told me. And so it's kind of uh a little bit of
a void that I don't know. I've been kind of curious to go and ask to see
my file, what happened, how my girls were born. Because it it really is,
um, it was on me. Because it was the hardest experience I ever had. Was um
feeling that and not, you know, experience it at all. But They were born,
they were born healthy. And so I think Casey was a little smaller, she was
about almost 5, and Katie was close to being 6 pounds. So and we were, we
were, I probably would have made it to 40 weeks if the, if my coworkers
didn't make me mad. And um I was 37 weeks with twins. And it was probably
the biggest I ever got. And everybody was like, you, I, I just grew in
like 3 weeks in all the time that I was carrying them and um but I think
that was probably the hardest thing was and and I don't know um. How it is
for other women that have had C-sections, um, whether it's traumatizing.
And it was for me, you know, if if I had my way, I would have had them
vaginally. But that's just not the way it went. But um and I and I think
about it and I say, you know, it could have come down to where I could
have sued the the hospital because of malpractice. I wasn't ready or my
body wasn't ready. So for me I think that that's kind of a little bit of
it just my, my mental health is kind of, you know, I think of it sometimes
, but then I said, you know, well they're healthy, they're they're, you
know, 4 now and Um, but I think just the trauma, you know, the trauma,
even just trauma of having uh a vaginal birth is sometimes that way. So it
was just the hardest for me, um. And so I just. I think it's just
something that comes back sometimes and I think about it. Um, but I also
think, you know, what other woman has experienced the same thing I did.
And so and and and was the hospital known for that because it is scary. I
, I thought I was, you know, the only thing I remember was I remember um
my girls were born at 2:57 and 2:58 in the morning. And that was probably
about 45 minutes later after I, and so I always feel like, you know, I
missed 45 minutes of my life, and where did it go? And I don't, I don't
know what was going on or what happened to me. So it was it's something
that I think of, but something I know I have to let go cause my girls are
fine, they're healthy. And so, um, but I just remember being um. Wheel
down the hall back to my room and the girls were there and I remember
carrying the girls and. Um, and just that, you know, and and just. You
know, just having them there, um, I remember bathing them because they're
so small in those little yellow, those pants, those, um, bed pants, yeah,
and I remember Casey was so small she would take baths and then the second
day they were born, the first day they were born, you know, they just kind
of washed them all. So ever since the 2nd day we started giving them baths
and ever since then, um, always, you know, made it necessary. But they
were so tiny and I remember Casey came, we always tell her, you came home
in a pan, I told her because she had had the little um uh car seat where
she was because she had to go in the little little car because it was like
a yeah like I said, like a pan and then um Katie, Katie was the one that
came home in the in the car seat because Casey was too small. So they
wouldn't let her, let them bring her home, let us, let us bring her home
until she was able to fit in a car seat properly. So Casey came home when
this was interesting, like a, like a cake pan.
And so, but, but even that experience, um, as small as she was, we had to
keep her in the ICU unit because I think she got scared with the harness
and so we were on our 3rd day they were, we were gonna come home the 3rd
day of our hospital stay but because Casey's um oxygen level was dropping
, they didn't want us to bring, they didn't want us to bring her home.
Even though the hospital say you can leave her and they're like no we're
not gonna leave her, you know, and so we'll see how she does tomorrow so
we went on until 4th day. I I'd rather take them both home um at the same
time, not leave one and you know because they're gonna, they're going to
miss one another. So Casey went for one evening to ICU, so then the
following morning they checked her out, strapped her back in, and she did
better, so we came home. And so, um. One of my other relatives was talking
about um pictures that they had on their baby shower because we have um
cradle boards so they were both in two cradle boards, yeah, it's because
we have cradle boards for our children and so they're saying I remember
when the girls, oh, it was, it's their babysitter across the street
because and then she has pictures of the girls when they're in their
cradle boards and they were strapped in and I remember they had two little
bassinets and. Two of everything and as we can as we still continue to
have everything today but um yeah I think it was a unique experience uh
very unique experience for me. We were talking to a woman um earlier today
who said that after when she decided she didn't want any more children to
dismantle the cradle board,
wow.
So there's nothing you guys left, you still have your cradle. Yeah,
yes we do. Yeah, I think that's going overboard if we do that. Well, she
really did not want another child. Well, I think and then that's why
saying things change because there's a, there's a whole purpose to the
cradle board because it's just, it's another. Step to the child growing
because um. They're used to being this way because then they say like
their their uh joints are growing, yeah, like keys yeah yeah and um
they're like they can't do this yet because they're used to being this way.
So we're we're um If if that was one of the things that I think I learned
from my grandmother was to put them back down was to put their arms back
and and uh put the um they do that now and and it's interesting to see
that because it it's something we were always told to do is to put them
back in, put them back down, meaning put their arms back in because
they're used to that position and they'll sleep better. And so like with
the cradle board, we covered them back up. It's just like being back in
the womb, cause that's where they were in the last 9 months. They're not
used to all this, you know. Um, although, like I said, we don't do that as
much, you know, I, I can't carry a baby that it's like I don't know what
I'm gonna do because they're not, it's on it's like it's hard for me to
because it's, it's like I don't know how to do with them because I don't
want them to fall over. Oh, that's beautiful. You have the girls' pictures
who made that? Oh that
that's. Our nephew, um, this is actually the Navajo cradle board because
on his side of the family they have the navel, but ours, it's similar. So
yeah, that's my little you should have seen him sing, yeah, and that's how
they're put down who makes the cradle boards in the family. The the father
is the one that makes that. So is that a skill that's passed down? Yeah,
yeah.
My father has to provide that. Did your, did your father teach you? Yeah,
yeah, or it's both father and son making the cradle board and you will
teach your son,
yeah, not yet, not yet, not those two.
It's interesting because you know Western culture, you swaddle, and it's
the same kind of idea, right? I don't know if the swaddling is a new
generation thing or an old generation thing, but I feel like it's fairly
new still with you in more urban areas that the swaddling is like a new
thing. But that makes so much sense. So do you feel like it's some sort of
way of helping the baby transition from the from the womb to the Well,
they tend to say it's a way of calmness, teaching, it's almost already
teaching them like tolerance to calm calming them. Um, and that it it's
just being on the outside world, you know, and. Yeah, it's to teach them
to be calm, to sleep better, and, and I often wonder, all my children are
night sleepers. My girls, I knew 6 o'clock in the morning. OK, girls, are
you awake? And even when they were born, they were early risers. And so
they kept the same schedule. And which was good because then he went to
school today. I don't know. Some days they don't get up right away, but um
, but that was that's that's why when I hear other people talk about I
can't get them to bed and I think one of the things that um you have to do
, which sometimes isn't something we tend to do is structure is being able
to, um, because I worked, I get off at 55 to 10 is our. 5 to 6 we eat 7 to
8 we have um bath time then 8 to 10 is just bringing them back down um and
it's, it's something that I remember my grandma would say is don't get
work, don't work them up but he put them to bed when they're calm. And
they'll go to bed. My two some nights they, they wanna watch TV all night.
We just came from my sister didn't go in. The toys are all over the um
Santa came yesterday, so they got cash registers and a basket of a whole
bunch of stuff, just grocery stuff and so they're all over the place. I
saw a whole bunch of um hot dogs laying by the chimney and everything's
all over the place, so, um. But it, it's just something, um, to be a
parent. It is, it's not easy. I mean, I never these two girls, oh God,
some days, and I'm and I'm thankful I have babysitters. My mom just
retired, so I think she's barely learning in a way to be a grandma because
she's, she wasn't, she didn't raise, right? They're like our kids are
really not close to her. They're probably more close to my brother's
family. And so the same thing my girls are more closer to their their
dad's grandma because my mom works so she's barely learning to reacquaint
herself, I think. Yeah, so how old was she when she finally retired?
She's 62 now, so she's retired this year. And I said, are you serious? You
know, cause my mom always worked. And so that's how we were raised by our
our grandmother. And but I think I wouldn't have it, I wouldn't have had
it any other way, because if that was the choice she had to make then.
That's the choice she made. So you're in touch with your mom. I live with
my mom. I live with my mom, yeah, she came back, yeah, and this is, I
don't know how many years it's been, but I, I'm live with her now as an
adult, so she knows what I'm talking about. I, I think it, it, it's harder
to be an adult child of a of a parent that didn't see you grow up and now
having to. Be a parent and raise your own family with, so it's hard, it's
hard for me because, um, you know, grandma worked and now grandma is
learning to be your grandma. And that's hard. And but yet we're adults and
we have to make decisions how we're gonna raise our children, and then you
tend to disagree. And and I think as a parent. You have to stand and say,
you know what, mom, uh, I'm the parent, you're the grandma. OK? Got it?
Good. OK, great. And so a lot of that, um, it is hard, and I tend to tell
my sister it's hard having to um be an adult child with her. Um,
especially not having that closeness, and a lot of people, a lot of people
to this day think we're all sisters, my aunt, my mom, and my sister and I.
And so we're like, no, she's our mother. I thought your grandma I thought
your grandma is your mother. No, we're like, so, so there's there's a lot
of diff you know, challenges and um. But I, but because we're all
sometimes tend to raise our families and extended family homes, um. It
does get hard. And so, so you have to make a choice whether you know, you
want advice and then you have to be an adult and say, you know, I
appreciate it, but not right now, OK? Let me deal with them, how I want to
deal with them because they are my children and I'm gonna have to deal
with them and so, um, but I'm thankful um to, I have two babysitters, uh,
well, one now, but um. The girls went to school at 3 months old and I'm
thankful to my um my neighbors. They were my babies they were my girl's
babysitters at 3 months old. Um, there isn't anything one of the
babysitters would do for my girls. They're more attached to her than my
mom. And so
did you have sitters too, or how did you cope with your young kids? I took
them to town. They were the business ladies. Yeah, well, that's how we
were raised under the table. We were, we were raised that way and I was
fortunate that I didn't work well. I worked, well, I make jewelry with my
grandmother, so I took them with me to Old Town. I had him with me all the
time. If not, you know, he would take them too sometimes, but otherwise,
yeah, I would have him there with me, all of my kids. And, and now they're
learning the same skills and are they going to eventually. Take over,
right. I don't know. I say no. I guess not.
But I enjoy what I do over there, I mean, that's all I've known all my
life. Doing that, yeah. Although, you know, at times I, I wonder what if I
would have gone back to school, things like that. But after our
grandfather died, I grew up quick cuz I had to learn how to drive. I had
to learn how to drive to my grandmother around and I start taking her to
Old Town because prior to that, it would be my grandfather and I to go
sell. But after he was gone, then yeah, I started taking my grandmother.
How old were you? I was, I was barely starting high school when he passed
,
yeah, because I remember we went to school at the ending school and so
it's 9th grade 10th grade. I was in 9th grade I think we we used to go to
boarding school. And so, um. So that that's kind of the reason why we, we
have to grow up quick, um. We just had to, I guess. And so our
understandings of the boarding school was that um in the past, they were
meant to kind of assimilate and to strip away culture and to really had
kind of terrible connotations, but when you went, it wasn't so much I
think that was those are different areas. Like if you want to talk about
Carlisle Indian School. Um, those and, and the locations. Carlisle is in
Pennsylvania, right? So there were different because when, when we were,
when New Mexico's actually settled, um, You know, it came from the east.
We were in the southwest, you know, some of the relocation happened as far
as the Midwest, you know, and so like you hear we have Choctaw people that
were living in Mississippi, but we're relocated to Oklahoma. And so I
don't think a lot of that assimilation really affected us in in the
Pueblos especially because we also were under before New Mexico became a
state we were under Spanish that's how we were Catholics so we had day
schools we already had day schools on the reservation. So later on I think.
Then the um there used to be a Catholic school in Santa Fe called Saint
Catharines, and then Santa Fe Indian School was actually in Albuquerque
Indian school. So, um, And so I, I honestly don't think that. I mean,
there's historical trauma at any rate, however you see it. Um, but I don't
think that as a pueblo person historical trauma really we have our own
historical trauma, I'll say it that way but not I don't think as an effect
of as a, you know, as, as how we were affected by boarding schools we
weren't assimilated that way. Because they still spoke their language as
far as what I know, and some of the people I've worked with in the
community have, they have it's interesting experiences that they used to
run away from Santa Fe and come home, then their parents would send them
back and they're like, you gotta go back to school. And and I'm really
really proud of some of the people in our community, um, going off to
college, older people. And so it was supportive, I think, you know, and,
and education is our key, you know, I mean both we're we're always taught
to live in both worlds, our own culture and and outside outside western
culture. So I mean, I don't think that that's the type of assimilation
that happened here. Because we had board, we had day schools. So somehow
education was embraced and not detrimental to our people. And so I think
that's just the way it is today. And so, but is that difficult at times
balancing those two worlds? You know,
Or just feels natural. Not really. I don't think it unless if you want to
be radical about it, you know, and think, you know, and hate the white
government, do as much as you want. I don't care, but, but I think that I
think one of the things is that we are citizens of this country. No matter
what color or where you immigrated from, nobody's, I mean, we're the true
native people. We came here, we lived here, people are from here. Um,
everyone else, yes, came to, you know, um, but. I've never been taught to
hate, you know, any race because that's the same thing because then we
grew up around people in old town and so we were, we're not so hard to
talk with meaning hi you know how you doing? and then it was it didn't
matter whether you were blacks, Hispanic, white we were always taught that
you know that people were people. And so I don't think that really, I
don't know, I just never grew up that way. I never grew up having to feel
that way. I don't know in terms of that balance though, you know. Things
that are customary for you like not naming your child. Was that a
challenge in the hospital setting, like saying, I'm not going to write a
name down on this? No, the hospital's understood, right? Yeah, but now
it's. The last one, the last time I had the girls, um, they were still
baby girl beta A and B. They were A and B, so we weren't pressured because
the other thing, um, it depends on which hospital you go to, but it also
goes back to um educating cultural competency. You have to, I mean, even
though somebody that's an old custom, they don't do that anymore and but
that's also our respect for our culture. Is that is that we give that and
then some of the godparents I hear go down, right? They need the children
there but for those of us, you know, we, and they ask, they ask you
because when the girls were born, do you, do you have names for the girls
or like. Or are they um and then we also they also had um native providers
so the lady I spoke with I think she was from um another Pueblo so she
understood you probably won't name your girl. She's like, no, we probably
we probably won't. So when they came, OK, so then it was cute. They had
little um little bands on their toes and then on their arms because
nowadays they put those um. Uh, they're like chipped so that because they
steal babies because I remember the girls that they had these little bands
, yeah, so come in then the alarm will go off and so they were like, uh,
they had bands were at the hospital we were so if somebody removed them or
took them out of the hospital, the alarm will go off because they had to
be removed before we took brought them home. And so, but, but the hospital
we were at, um. They were culturally friendly and the same thing with the
Santa Fe Indian Hospital, um, their cultural and I think just the state in
general, they know like a vital statistics, the birth certificate or the I
guess the uh paternity comes later once the names are given and so uh but
. I just think I guess everyone, uh, every case is different nowadays.
It's not, not customary to what, you know, what, what we're told anymore,
I guess. So do you think your girls will carry on these traditions? Yes, I
think they will. I hope they will. I mean, if we're, if we're still around
, we know they will because I think it is important as much as my nephew
and my son to be good fathers and to be good mothers, um, because that's I
hope to say we've guide guide them enough to to fulfill those roles. So
you know I'm really fascinated with this naming process because I couldn't
imagine letting my mother name my son. Like there's something about that,
but so do you, do the names have any significance or where do they come
from? We've been asked, we have 10 we have 11 godchildren. We have 10
girls we've named, and we have 1 boy. So we have 7 and 1 coming on the way
over in January, yeah, yeah, and more, but um. We take turns naming,
sometimes I'll do like the first name, he'll pick a middle name. I mean,
we both, but do you consult with the parents like, no, no, no, no, no,
it's what your child is named because we think they're not we think
they're going to be blessed, you know, and we give that support back to.
The godparents because they're gonna guide. Mhm. So it's a really special
thing around here when you're asked to be godparents. Yeah, I would
imagine that's a huge you know it's an honor.
Well, if you think about it when you ask someone to be a godparent, the
name that they give is probably. Ranks not very high on you know what I
mean, bigger responsibilities involved in that
than just my girls are one of the girls, uh, Casey, the one with the short
hair, she's her middle name, she's named after my our grandmother. She's
her name's Tonita and then Katie's named after my grandmother's sister.
Her name's Louisa. So. Um, my godmother's mother told, um, our godmother
to name them, rename them that because my mom told her to, you should name
them Tonita, and, and so then she put them as their middle names. So Casey
and Katie are their first names. Then they have the names of The sisters,
my grandma and her sisters. And so, but it, but it fits them well. They
have the demeanor of both women. And my, my first one, she's she's named
after our grandmother. It's so cute when she sleeps. She sleeps just like
like this and just sleep. And so that's how I remember that's how my
grandma used to sleep with her arms folded or tell me a bedtime story, or
she likes to kiss at night. Katie likes to kiss and then I remember um
that was I think that was one of the biggest thing is having Grandma give
you the sign of the cross and tell you good night. And that's how I think
it was special for us to sleep with her. Yeah, yeah, and I think that was
like the specialist thing that I always remember is her and going to bed
and having Grandma, having that safety. And knowing she was there and, you
know, and it's hard. I mean, it's hard too, and I hope that, you know,
that that's the kind of relationship that my mom builds with my girls.
Although she's learning, you know, she's learning to do that, but um But
I think it's just something special, um, especially women, any woman that
um gives you advice, how to be a parent, how to be a woman, how to be a
wife, how to be a mother in this community. And um cause we play a lot of
different roles. And so, um we also have our children are also given indie
names, so they're not just giving uh uh Uh, you know, Western names
they're also given. So it's unique. They, they're all our children have a
uniqueness of um the names they're given and sometimes who they come back
as. And so, I mean, people talk about reincarnation, they come back, you
know, we all come back as different who who's lived before. So it's really
, it's really an amazing thing when you begin to see distinguish between
your children and so. Yeah, how many names do they have?
The my girls have two names, so first name and a second name. Now in terms
of their Indian name. 2 Yeah. My girls have 2. We probably have 2 too, so
yeah, it were named after a time when we're born. Yeah, depending on
whoever names you, is that why you mentioned that you have a nighttime
child and a morning child? Does that it doesn't really, no, this all
depends on what they're named, but it's just same thing, and
distinguishment, you know, indistinguishment kind of. Acknowledgement, I
guess, yeah. Yeah, so was your um second birth different than your first
birth at all? Mm, a little bit, yeah, that'll be my middle child there. I
was bigger. She was bigger. Yeah. How big? My first one was 49, so Mariah
was like 6 songs.
Yeah, and totally opposites, you know, totally different. She's the
rebellious one. And then my son was my surprise. Yeah, cause I had a tubal
pregnancy. And I had lost a son. So maybe after that, within that year, I
got pregnant again. I was surprised. I had the nurse do a ticket test on,
are you sure? Yeah, look it. So I was happy, but I didn't know it was a
son till he was born. Yeah, that seems very special. It is, yeah, we were
so happy. I know he was.
Yeah, he was there this time, so he got to see my son born,
there's no more. How was that? We're all done, right? Yeah, I know, tell
me about it. So how was, did your son sit any differently in your belly?
cause sometimes they say boys carry high or low. I can't remember and he
was just uh more active at night. During the day, I guess he was sleeping
, but at night. More active and then when we came from the hospital, he
would like to watch TV at night. He didn't cry or anything, so he would be
in his little deskinet and he'd be just looking at the TV.
Yeah, he was still, you know. He didn't change much, but now he's. So were
you able to have all of them, uh, vaginally in the hospital with no
medication?
Uh, yeah, I had them all baning um. I think Kenny had a medication cause
he was my largest. He was like 77 so, yeah, but otherwise, yeah. I had
them all. That's incredible. You guys are so strong.
Going through, I mean, yeah, but we're blessed to have sons, and I think
that's the uniqueness, um, and my son was just messaging me, Facebook
messaging me. Where did you guys go? I didn't tell him we were coming
because he, he's very close to Kenny and or my nephew, and he's gonna say
, you didn't tell me you didn't, but, but I think it's just, it's amazing
, you know, having sisters and having boys. And I think, you know, my
sister will probably agree is there. They're surrounded by all of us and
there's lots of hope for the both of us. And who they're gonna be common.
And like I said, I hope that you know that they'll be they'll be good
fathers one day. And that um that we've given them enough support. And you
know that we love them. We love them there isn't, I mean, you know, you
think about all the kids and Kenny and Donnie are unique. Donrell and
they're unique. Kenny's really close with his cousin. That's I think only
because the son I lost would have been her son's age. So Kenny's a year
behind, but he's really close with his cousin. I think her son took my, my
son took her sons straight. You know, and he's here, he's here through
dumb trail. And so, and you tell my brother, he's as much as your son,
you're responsible too for him to teach him things and. And it it was hard
, you know, to have to. Go through it's it's it's something I think that.
Uh, we don't talk about the trauma sometimes because it's hurtful. But in
, in time, we let go, but we know our children continue to live through
our other children. And so, um. And and talking about it helps and knowing
that um. That, you know. That it is, they are special. And um and yeah, we
, we can't change things, but. You have to, you know. You know, we live,
we live on. And so what that that I think that's just the uniqueness of
the boys that they're they're special in their own way. And so, but But
they're surrounded by sisters that support will support them later on, and
that's great. I mean, I'm I'm so happy, you know, for, for both of them,
that they have sisters that are gonna be there for them. So, but um with
the tubal pregnancy, did you have to have surgery? Yeah, I didn't know
that's what it was until, yeah, I just had like excruciating pain in here
and. I, you know, I didn't know, and so they took me to the hospital. They
, they didn't tell me anything right away either until they did, well,
let's do an ultrasound. They asked me if I was I said, not that I know of
, and that's what they found. So All I remember was, yeah, going into
surgery and then that was that, yeah. Did you feel a loss or was it, did
you not, because you didn't have time to like really process that you had
been carrying. A child was, what was that emotional experience after that
? I think it was only till I found out that it was then, yeah, of course,
I felt a loss, but otherwise I didn't know that's what it was. Yeah.
Yeah, that's that's tough, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, so, but they told me I was, I was a boy, yeah, and then you had your
, you were pregnant with your son at that time. She already you didn't
have any yet done yet. This was maybe, was that like a couple weeks before.
Don't don't because when when I was having done trial, you couldn't go
with me. Yeah, I was home. Yeah, she was home at the time. And so when I
was having done trail. I remember she couldn't go cuz she was still
resting. And then um I know they went in the ambulance. And so, but it was
, it was something. You know, it was hard and and today we still. Like I
said, he, he lives through on trail. And so and you know and. You, you
think you know what he could have been like and he's here. It's hard, and
I know my sister, you know, thinks, but I tend to believe that he does
live through my son. And just like he's my son, he's her son. And so
that's why he's he's really close with Kenny and I don't I wouldn't have
it any other way that they both be close and I'm glad they are and they're
still boys, they're still kids. They play together. They come up, you know
, and they hang out and like I said, I didn't tell my son I was coming up
here. He was still get mad at her because he hasn't come to see Kenny in a
while because they've been at school, but Well, what most
all summer when you have a beautiful family, and I've never heard children
play together so nicely. It's so lovely. It's incredible to hear that
giggling and all of that they're like well it's the same that's
that's their brother too, so. Yeah it's nice, you know, I mean, no matter
how how how I guess messy your house is, I mean you wouldn't have it any
other way because I mean it's the uniqueness of the kids and it's just
funny. I just heard that conversation. I was in Palm Springs last week and
this man and this young girl were sitting in front of me. And so she was
talking about her 3 year old, and this man was a little bit older. And
then he also you know they were talking and I guess I was listening and
and then she, she told him, well I have a 3 year old and uh he's he's a
brat or she's a brat, I think she said, huh? He goes, she's a brat, you
know, and then he, he kinda, he kinda, oh, he goes, he kind of paused for
a moment. Well, if she wouldn't be a, if she wasn't a brat, you wouldn't
be happy, right? And so I was like, oh, exactly. I sat there and I said,
of course, these my girls they drive me nuts. I mean, you know, some days
and they're like, I wonder what they're doing at school. I hope they're
behaving and and so and I and I understood what he said and I said, you're
exactly right. If it wasn't for this chaos, we some tend to take on every
day as a parent or whatever role you play every day. You wouldn't learn to
appreciate just living. And you wouldn't learn to appreciate your children
and one day they leave, leave and you're like, you know, what are you
doing? And my biggest thing with my oldest, did you eat today? I feel like
it. And so she's home. She came, she came home yesterday and she was just
we went grocery shopping, I'm so looking forward to eating at home, she
said, she lives with my sister. Well, what do you guys do? You don't cook.
And when I go to visit them, I opened their fridge. Where's your food?
And they're like, what food? You guys don't cook, I said. And so I'm glad
she's home. I mean, I just want to always make sure as old as she gets,
and I worry about my niece and she, she's living in town and I'm like,
what she ate today, and it's like your oldest, she just moved out a month
ago. Yeah. She comes home one evening and have something to tell you and
we're like. We're all sitting around because we're all used to each other.
We watch TV together, eat together and then she comes out and she was
like something, I said, I hope it's, you know, in my mind it's something
good, you know. And she goes, I'm moving now. I said, oh, OK. I thought it
was something, you know.
So I think she's waiting for you to be a grandma. At first I was like I
kinda. So yeah, well, I feel sad, you know, cuz she's not here, cuz we're
all, I'm used to, you know, having all my kids here. I wasn't that lucky
to grow up with a mom and dad, so that's why I tell my kids, you're lucky
you have both of us here because we didn't have that. We had our
grandparents. Which was just as good, but you know. They're very lucky, so
it's a different sort of bond. I was crying. I was at the dentist and I
saw her. I saw her at Walmart when she that day she moved and when I saw
them and I saw them at Walmart and then I saw my niece, and then she goes
, I, I live down the street, where down the street, down here. And then it
I didn't take enough time to process it because we were walking out. I saw
a couple of days later at the dentist because my niece has, my daughter
has braces and she has braces, so she was there and I told my daughter, I
think Kiana's here and she goes, where are her cars parked out there? So
she was inside so I was sitting there. Maybe she'll come out when um
Lindsay goes in and she goes, and I was sitting there. And I told her, you
know, and she came out, Come here, sit down. Let me, let's talk for a
moment. I told her, you didn't give me enough time to process you moving
out. I said she's like, What? She goes, I've been all week. I was just,
Kiana moved out.
And then I forget about Kiana moved out. Kiana moved out and it's like, it
was so hard for me because my, my daughter went off to college and leaving
her at the dorm was awkward. And now she lives with my sisters that I
still think that's hard because I worry if they're eating or they're OK,
you know, that they're that they're they're meeting each other's needs and
so I so I told Kanna to come sit with me as I was crying at the dentist's
office all like, Well, don't forget about us. Come on. And, and I said,
you're like, you know, I told her, make sure, you know, like do you know,
be responsible and you know we are lucky and your mom and dad trust you,
don't make the wrong decisions, you know, or. And so I said, come home,
don't forget about us. We're we're always be here and it was hard on me
and I just like it's so funny like some old lady I felt I feel like an old
lady. I thought she thought, why? She goes, because it's hard to let you
guys go. I mean, I know you're responsible and I know I think you've
proved enough, you know, to to be where you're at, but um and then I said
, but it's so it's so. Uh, I don't know, just amazing to me, but then I
was like, why you have to go? He's like, you know, I know. I was just like
I was crying at the dentist's office, and it's probably a moment she'll
she'll remember you were, you were crying at the dentist's office and then
my daughter came up and um she Kiana had already left and she goes, What's
wrong with you, I'm sitting here crying because Kiana moved out. Well,
there's mixed emotions, right? You're happy, and I had, I had those like,
you know, I'm so proud of you, I'm so proud of you, but I'm still like, I
don't know why you had to go into. And so, but my daughter was like, Mom,
you're crazy. And she's like, well, I mean. I just don't, I see how you
all are growing up, but I also, you know, I just, it's just the world is
so different today. And that's what scares me the most is the world and
how it's cruel sometimes and all these things happening. But no, there's
just hope we're just always gonna hope for the best every day and that you
guys are safe because like my, my oldest oldest, she'll ride the bus
across town to school. And I'll call her. If I'm in town, do you want me
to pick you up? She goes, um, yeah. What time do you get out? So I always
had to drive her home. But I always tell her to make sure you're OK, you
know, I have, like I said, 3 siblings that live in town, but just so that
, you know, she's she's safe. And that's that's probably the biggest thing
that I'm more scared of is this one, her safety. Um, but making sure that
, you know, she's OK. Like I said, eating, that's the biggest thing, I
guess. But taking care of herself, I guess, and you both are such loving
parents. It's really been wonderful talking with you. I hope so.
Um, last week, uh, the girl said, I hope you liked your vacation when I
came back I went to a concert. What vacation? I think Casey said vacation.
They're like.
00, you mean, and, and, and even leaving them. The first time I went on a
3 day conference, 3 hours from here. It was hard. That was the first time
I had to leave the twins. I was just, I, I couldn't, I didn't know what to
do the first day, and I sat there and I'm like, OK, I'll get over it,
they'll be all right. 3 days. And it was 3 hours away from here. So this
time around, I went for almost a week and I, and I told them, you know, um
that I'm gonna go, you know, and, and um you guys will be OK. Um. I didn't
tell them right away. I told them like 2 days before because I didn't want
them to over dramatize because Casey was, Casey, I think already knew,
cause then I told him, well, when are you coming back? She goes like, are
you going to work? Yes, I'm going to work, but are you coming back? She's
like, I'll be back, but a couple days. And so, um, but it's hard. It was
hard. I mean, for me to leave that, knowing that I knew I had people that
will. Um, that will take care of them, but it's just a difference when mom
takes care of them, because mom keeps everything in line. And when other
people feel in, they're like, Mom, don't do it that way. You know, mom
doesn't mom won't let me, you know, wear that, you know, and so, so that's
what I probably worried about the most was, you know, was how, how they
were going to be, how everybody else was going to situate themselves so.
Yeah,
we better get out of your hair. You guys have to wrap up with Katie carries her milk with her baby. Yes, she does. I'm gonna she's OK.