WEBVTT 00:00:00.159 --> 00:00:04.646 We're just doing some volume stuff right now too, right? So, um, this is 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:11.607 Boris Solis interviewing for Creative Push project on December 13 16th at 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:18.646 um 7:15 p.m. And could you introduce yourself and tell us your age? Uh, my 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:23.546 name is Amanda Bird. I'm 43. Excellent. Can you tell us your name and your 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:28.407 age? I'm Mary a beta. I'm 42 years old. Excellent. 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:33.366 I think so. This is, this is beautiful. We actually have not interviewed 00:00:33.399 --> 00:00:37.885 like sisters or people together. 00:00:37.918 --> 00:00:44.926 So if you could take us back to um your births, did your mother or your 00:00:44.959 --> 00:00:50.116 grandmother or anyone tell you about your births? Or like preparing you 00:00:50.149 --> 00:00:55.676 for pregnancy. No, no, no, not, I mean, when you, your actual birth. When 00:00:55.709 --> 00:01:01.957 I was, yes. Did your parents tell you about that? I don't think it was 00:01:01.990 --> 00:01:07.135 funny. This actually came up um with my daughter. Um, I don't know if it 00:01:07.168 --> 00:01:11.876 was yesterday. Lynn asked how was Lynn, my daughter is in her 3rd year at 00:01:11.909 --> 00:01:16.936 the University of New Mexico, so she's doing a similar project like this, 00:01:16.969 --> 00:01:22.257 and so her and I have to talk about her birth and so um our birth earlier 00:01:22.290 --> 00:01:25.855 , um, I was trying to remember where I was born. I think we were born in 00:01:25.888 --> 00:01:32.757 Albuquerque so that I've never heard how we were born. But, um, and that's 00:01:32.790 --> 00:01:36.876 a good question. And so, but like I said, um, my, my oldest daughter, 00:01:36.909 --> 00:01:41.956 she'll be turning 21, so she was wondering how was I born? And so the 00:01:41.989 --> 00:01:45.036 funny part about her being born was we got pulled over on the way to the 00:01:45.069 --> 00:01:50.397 hospital. And so, so that was the and my grandma was still here at the 00:01:50.430 --> 00:01:56.837 time because she's my oldest child. And so um I remember um I told her, I 00:01:56.870 --> 00:02:02.397 remember having her and my contractions started about 4 in the morning and 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:05.796 then I just kind of just waited cause we were living, my sister and I live 00:02:05.829 --> 00:02:10.967 with my grandmother and kind of just Oh, you know, should I tell her now? 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.467 Should I tell her now, and, or, you know, let them know I'm I'm ready to 00:02:14.500 --> 00:02:18.835 go. And so we went up about 6 in the morning and we normally had our 00:02:18.868 --> 00:02:22.457 children in Santa Fe, New Mexico and so because that's where the Indian 00:02:22.490 --> 00:02:29.616 hospital is and so we got in, um, her dad, my mom, my grandmother, and I 00:02:29.649 --> 00:02:32.876 started to go up to the hospital. It was 6 in the morning, so we're 00:02:32.909 --> 00:02:37.725 heading to Santa Fe, so maybe about a block away we got pulled over. And 00:02:37.758 --> 00:02:41.366 then the police officer asked, oh, my boyfriend, and he said, well, why 00:02:41.399 --> 00:02:46.366 are you driving so fast? She's having a baby, you know, we just, and my 00:02:46.399 --> 00:02:49.566 grandma's like, you know, why are they pulling us over? You know, you're 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.677 knowing that you're having a baby. So like we were like I said, a block 00:02:53.710 --> 00:02:58.566 away from the hospital and we got a police escort to the hospital because 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:02.646 we were, I was in labor. And so I was telling my daughter that earlier, I 00:03:02.679 --> 00:03:07.207 said, you are unique. I said, I mean, we started early, but she wasn't 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.835 born till 2:29 in the afternoon. And so she took a little while cause she 00:03:11.868 --> 00:03:17.786 was my first. Um, were you, did you have your first before you, the first 00:03:17.819 --> 00:03:21.906 , my sister, yeah, I did. You had the first with the first baby in your 00:03:21.939 --> 00:03:29.939 family. Yeah, yeah, my niece Kiana, yeah. Did your mother or grandmother 00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:32.775 prepare you for birth? Did they say this is what you're going to 00:03:32.808 --> 00:03:39.177 experience and how do you say I think just conversations we had with our 00:03:39.210 --> 00:03:45.896 grandmother was, you know, like how self-care, being pregnant. Um, 00:03:45.929 --> 00:03:50.797 culturally and um just physically, how you would take care of yourself as 00:03:50.830 --> 00:03:57.517 as a woman. Um, going to make sure you went to, um, your prenatal, taking 00:03:57.550 --> 00:04:03.275 care of yourselves, um, talking to your baby occasionally and because 00:04:03.308 --> 00:04:10.475 you're connected that way, um, always knowing that, um. That that being is 00:04:10.508 --> 00:04:15.717 growing, you know, and it's with you um through everything, you know, no 00:04:15.750 --> 00:04:21.455 matter um what's going on in your life and um. You know what you're 00:04:21.488 --> 00:04:27.015 experiencing the child is feeling. So, um, I think just conversations our 00:04:27.048 --> 00:04:31.976 grandma would have with us sometimes always saying one, I I remember one 00:04:32.009 --> 00:04:37.567 just just off the top of my head, her saying, you know, um, When we 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.046 started, relationships are always, you know, reminding, you know, be 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:46.366 careful. I remember that and I remember I got lectured for it, but I think 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:53.055 through the years, um. I guess without her guidance, you know, I use her 00:04:53.088 --> 00:04:59.476 words today, you know, and it means a lot to my sister and I, and so um 00:04:59.509 --> 00:05:05.096 she was a large, she was our mother. And our real mom left us. Yeah, so 00:05:05.129 --> 00:05:10.656 our grandma was our mother, so a lot of and I'm thankful, you know, um for 00:05:10.689 --> 00:05:14.976 the wisdom she shared and a lot of the things that she cautioned us and 00:05:15.009 --> 00:05:23.009 then as a teen or as a young, you know, adult, um, you tend to not listen. 00:05:23.108 --> 00:05:27.895 But today I don't think we would be strong parents 00:05:27.928 --> 00:05:34.026 um if we didn't have her um advice. So, um, but basically, you know, it 00:05:34.059 --> 00:05:39.377 was always her, you know, reminding us, you know, and, um, and I think 00:05:39.410 --> 00:05:43.825 that's where our parenting comes from. It's not easy. It's not, especially 00:05:43.858 --> 00:05:50.846 , you know, when here on the pueblo. Yeah. Why is that? It's just, you 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.825 know. 00:05:54.858 --> 00:06:02.395 Certain things are, you know, just us women, you know, um. I guess, you 00:06:02.428 --> 00:06:05.116 know, um. 00:06:05.149 --> 00:06:11.906 One of, you know, one of the things that. And just being able to um. I 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:17.447 guess cope with the fact that you're having a child. Um, some of our 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:23.887 community members have children early. And I think that's kind of um. I 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:29.447 mean, I wasn't that old. I was 21 years old. Today that's old compared to 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:34.127 our 14 and sometimes 15 year olds and younger. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:40.325 And so, and I think the reason in a way um speaking about our grandmother 00:06:40.358 --> 00:06:48.358 is um Responsibility, we tend to have been responsible early. Um, my 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:54.286 oldest, like, like I said, she didn't have to babysit her siblings. We did. 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:59.086 We took on big roles as the older grandchildren. And I don't, I think if 00:06:59.119 --> 00:07:06.736 if we didn't, um. We wouldn't be where we were, we're at today in a sense. 00:07:06.769 --> 00:07:14.507 And so, um, not just um. Parenting, but also being able to um. Be 00:07:14.540 --> 00:07:19.796 self-employed, how to self sustain yourself. Um, yeah, we were learning 00:07:19.829 --> 00:07:23.836 about that. Your husband was saying how your skills have been passed down 00:07:23.869 --> 00:07:29.687 from generation to generation. 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:31.995 Did your grandmother from the photo and then um like my brother's family, 00:07:32.028 --> 00:07:38.217 um, farming. Farming and and I'm grateful, you know, to a lot of the um a 00:07:38.250 --> 00:07:45.137 lot of how he plays a role in in my son's life um, he's we all tend to 00:07:45.170 --> 00:07:51.036 take on that, uh, parent figure because um my children are just as much as 00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:56.606 my sister's children and her children are just as much as mine and so um 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:01.616 we're equally responsible for that and so and that helps because of the 00:08:01.649 --> 00:08:08.197 support in parenting. Because it is tough to discipline, it's tough to be 00:08:08.230 --> 00:08:12.555 able to have conversations because this our generation of children are 00:08:12.588 --> 00:08:19.555 different from how we grew up. How is that support impacted your parenting 00:08:19.588 --> 00:08:24.406 having your sister nearby and. 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.765 I mean, it's been great cause I've always just had her besides my 00:08:28.798 --> 00:08:35.826 grandmother. It's just her and I. Although I am the oldest of 6, but my 00:08:35.859 --> 00:08:42.427 other siblings were not as close as her and I, because our mom took those 00:08:42.460 --> 00:08:47.696 siblings with her and we were left with our grandmother. Are you closest 00:08:47.729 --> 00:08:53.967 in age? Yeah, a year and a half apart. Yeah. Me and my sister too, we were 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.525 close like that. We had much younger siblings and a single mother, and so 00:08:58.558 --> 00:09:04.686 we became kind of a team and it's a really special relationship. And I 00:09:04.719 --> 00:09:10.366 think that that's one of the that closeness. My children are 8 years apart 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:17.145 , and I wish I sometimes think, why did I wait that long? Because of, you 00:09:17.178 --> 00:09:21.927 know, you want to be able to have someone, but they're all, you know, in, 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:26.726 in, in their own way, they're close. Um, like I said, my oldest didn't 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:32.525 have to really um babysit and she doesn't see, she just doesn't, you know 00:09:32.558 --> 00:09:36.645 , there she's the oldest and I think the roles that we tend to play as 00:09:36.678 --> 00:09:41.515 older siblings is Where we then become responsible for the younger ones 00:09:41.548 --> 00:09:45.275 being able to guide and being able to support. We do have two younger 00:09:45.308 --> 00:09:51.956 sisters and 2 younger brothers, so, um, I, there's a brother behind me, 2 00:09:51.989 --> 00:09:56.996 sisters and a, and a younger whip, my youngest brother, and so, um, so 00:09:57.029 --> 00:10:01.436 there's a difference in our small family is small because our the rest of 00:10:01.469 --> 00:10:06.895 our siblings work and go to school. And you know they're out in the urban. 00:10:06.928 --> 00:10:12.297 We're here on the on the reservation in the community. And so it it's 00:10:12.330 --> 00:10:18.625 also challenging having to educate the ones that are urban. In language 00:10:18.658 --> 00:10:24.427 and culture because they're missing a part of it by not being being here 00:10:24.460 --> 00:10:30.186 so um so that's important, you know, I have the younger girls, they're 4 00:10:30.219 --> 00:10:34.936 and um language is very important because it it helps to sustain who we 00:10:34.969 --> 00:10:42.287 are. And um and culture participating in our dances and being part of our 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:47.157 ceremonies is very important is that it sustains who we are but not just 00:10:47.190 --> 00:10:52.967 that um it's the strength that comes from it's the resiliency they say is 00:10:53.000 --> 00:10:58.936 is just like church it it creates that spirituality. And the resiliency 00:10:58.969 --> 00:11:05.936 and so that it helps to um helps our children to make better choices you 00:11:05.969 --> 00:11:10.135 know if they're resilient then they won't take as much risks but then on 00:11:10.168 --> 00:11:15.096 the other side risks are good because you know you're not always gonna be 00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:20.616 there when they fall. And so, so I think um a lot of the what the 00:11:20.649 --> 00:11:26.917 community provides in language culture. Um, is important because they are 00:11:26.950 --> 00:11:32.557 going to be that next generation, um, you know, after we, you know, move 00:11:32.590 --> 00:11:39.996 on. So a lot of it is important and, but you see a lot of um Gender roles 00:11:40.029 --> 00:11:46.576 change today. Um, I'm actually I'm a newly, I'm a women's, I'm a victim's 00:11:46.609 --> 00:11:53.326 advocate in the community. Um, I'm a sexual assault victims advocate. 00:11:53.359 --> 00:11:55.657 Um, 00:11:55.690 --> 00:11:58.976 It's something that, um, go ahead, I'm sorry. No, I was asking, how have 00:11:59.009 --> 00:12:05.667 the women's roles changed, you were saying. I think that um. 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:11.135 I think just the roles are still there, but I think that our how we 00:12:11.168 --> 00:12:17.177 respect those roles are changing because you, you know, our one example is 00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:22.616 um tattoos for instance it's not something that's uh culturally 00:12:22.649 --> 00:12:29.135 appropriate um because as women we play roles uh culturally and who we we 00:12:29.168 --> 00:12:33.895 were bearers of children we're very special people because we we're the 00:12:33.928 --> 00:12:40.856 ones that. Um, have children, and it's a very special role to have 00:12:40.889 --> 00:12:46.076 children, and some people, some women don't. But when you bear children, 00:12:46.109 --> 00:12:52.106 um. It it's something that it's just what a woman should do and some don't 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:57.726 , you know, and that's fine. Um, but I think a lot, but I think what we 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:02.696 tend not to do is educate our younger women, so we can't say it's not 00:13:02.729 --> 00:13:09.057 there, but we have to educate and share. Um, what roles, what etiquette, 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:14.446 what's expected. If we don't share, you know, um, then we can expect from 00:13:14.479 --> 00:13:19.706 them. So a lot of it goes back to um having those discussions about what's 00:13:19.739 --> 00:13:23.787 appropriate, which I know the younger generation say oh you guys are old 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:27.547 fashioned but I think just like when we were talking about our 00:13:27.580 --> 00:13:32.907 grandmothers that it's this where we're, you know, expressing or teaching 00:13:32.940 --> 00:13:38.066 our children what we thought we probably wouldn't hear at the time. And so 00:13:38.099 --> 00:13:43.787 , but I mean it's interesting when you think well what what grandma say or 00:13:43.820 --> 00:13:47.505 grandma help me with this because I don't know how to talk to my children 00:13:47.538 --> 00:13:52.946 right now or how do I love them, how do I care for them? I'm struggling 00:13:52.979 --> 00:14:00.086 and so um so so you tend to reach out a lot and so, but I think that um. 00:14:00.119 --> 00:14:05.967 Just having that, having her in our lives taught us a lot and one just 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:11.125 that bond we had as as her being our mother was big, yeah, played a big 00:14:11.158 --> 00:14:15.375 role. So she was there when you were pregnant with your first child first 00:14:15.408 --> 00:14:18.287 did um. 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:24.297 Did you change any of your behaviors during the pregnancy, any, any? Ways 00:14:24.330 --> 00:14:30.775 that, um, you know, did you? Start walking or you know, eating differently 00:14:30.808 --> 00:14:35.217 or doing anything. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did start eating 00:14:35.250 --> 00:14:42.635 differently. We tried to walk my boyfriend at the time, but 00:14:42.668 --> 00:14:48.407 But I mean, the excitement, I mean, having. 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:53.596 So you were excited about the pregnancy. I was, yeah. Did you, how soon 00:14:53.629 --> 00:14:57.366 did you know you were pregnant? 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:04.765 Mm. Maybe about a month. Yeah, found out right away. So did you just miss 00:15:04.798 --> 00:15:09.775 your first period and then you, yeah, yeah. So I went and that's what it 00:15:09.808 --> 00:15:14.157 was. I kind of thought, yeah, I went to the doctor, got things checked out 00:15:14.190 --> 00:15:19.895 and that's what they told me. Yeah, so I have my daughter. How was 00:15:19.928 --> 00:15:23.096 pregnancy? 00:15:23.129 --> 00:15:27.787 I say it was a pretty good. I mean, considering it was, you know, my first 00:15:27.820 --> 00:15:32.875 time and. I try to take care of myself and like I said, my grandmother 00:15:32.908 --> 00:15:38.255 used to. You know, let us know, you know, you don't eat too much of that 00:15:38.288 --> 00:15:44.976 and this, but you know. But otherwise, yeah, we, I tried it. You know, I 00:15:45.009 --> 00:15:49.297 take care of myself. Nowadays, I feel like with women being pregnant, 00:15:49.330 --> 00:15:52.736 there's so many things that we're afraid of, you know about because we 00:15:52.769 --> 00:15:57.287 know so much, you know, I'm afraid of birth defects or afraid of, you know 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:02.265 , um things that can go wrong. Did you think about any of those things or 00:16:02.298 --> 00:16:07.967 were you just excited about the process and I, I think I was just excited 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:12.907 about the process. Yeah, I think that's nice. I wish, I wish we didn't 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:16.145 know as much as we do now to some degree, you know, because it puts so 00:16:16.178 --> 00:16:19.717 much fear in our mind. 00:16:19.750 --> 00:16:23.816 So did you always know you were going to have give birth in the hospital? 00:16:23.849 --> 00:16:29.936 Yeah. Mhm. How far away is the hospital from where you were? Uh, about an 00:16:29.969 --> 00:16:34.537 hour. It's about 45 minutes from here to Santa Fe. Yeah, at the time it 00:16:34.570 --> 00:16:38.505 was in Santa Fe. That's a drive. Did you have to think about that when you 00:16:38.538 --> 00:16:40.846 planned on. 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.736 Well, Albuquerque further, 00:16:43.769 --> 00:16:48.775 but I, but I think that um like you said, um, you, you don't wanna 00:16:48.808 --> 00:16:56.326 overthink. I think culturally we're, we're um educated to not overthink 00:16:56.359 --> 00:17:00.846 where we don't pack a bag, we don't, I mean, we go to prenatal care, we go 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:05.516 to ultrasounds. I don't even know if I even packed the bag for when I had 00:17:05.549 --> 00:17:13.549 the twins because um. It was just, I mean, it was just, I mean, when you, 00:17:14.108 --> 00:17:18.996 I like, like I said, I had for my first one. I felt the contractions. I 00:17:19.029 --> 00:17:26.347 knew I was, my body was getting ready, um. My second one I went. My second 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:31.746 , when my son was born, I went to work. I I started my contractions. I 00:17:31.779 --> 00:17:36.026 started in, I was in labor at 6 in the morning with my son. I went to a 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:40.426 prenatal appointment in Santa Fe in the morning with my cousin. We ate 00:17:40.459 --> 00:17:46.516 lunch and went back to work at one o'clock. I was still in labor. And I 00:17:46.549 --> 00:17:51.877 clocked out. I came back after work and I told my sister, uh, I think it's 00:17:51.910 --> 00:17:59.315 time and this was a little after 5. I probably ended up going to the 00:17:59.348 --> 00:18:06.186 hospital about close to 7 that night. Um, my son was born at 9:43 that 00:18:06.219 --> 00:18:14.085 night. That's how quick um you, you tend to, it's not a sickness, it's not 00:18:14.118 --> 00:18:22.118 something that um that in culturally where, you know, don't get scared or 00:18:22.598 --> 00:18:26.647 like I said, don't overthink it or don't, don't worry because a lot of 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:33.585 that stress and that worry goes to the baby. And um And and always like I 00:18:33.618 --> 00:18:41.618 said, talking to your children. Um, And so the preparedness we prepare but 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:47.967 we don't prepare like in the Western culture where we don't prepare even 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.766 um we don't have baby showers until the baby is born we don't we don't buy 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.446 certain things um it used to be said that um you wouldn't find out the 00:18:57.479 --> 00:19:02.647 gender but now today you go to an ultrasound do you wanna know and they're 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:08.035 like no but. And you, you tend to already find out my son, I didn't know I 00:19:08.068 --> 00:19:13.315 was having a boy. Lynn, my first daughter Lindsay, I don't think I knew I 00:19:13.348 --> 00:19:17.877 was having a girl, but with the twins I knew. Did you know the sex of your 00:19:17.910 --> 00:19:22.717 first? There were no ultrasounds, um, there was, but I told them that we, 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:27.276 I didn't want to find out. Yeah, so it goes back to culture, you know, it 00:19:27.309 --> 00:19:32.637 goes back to the culture is, you know, whatever, you know, um, God blesses 00:19:32.670 --> 00:19:39.367 you with and. You know your children are special, you know, and so yeah. 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:44.295 Had you with your first birth, had you had a name picked out? No, because 00:19:44.328 --> 00:19:48.545 even that we're not allowed to, we don't name our children. We we pick 00:19:48.578 --> 00:19:53.496 godparents for them and they they'll name our children because we're 00:19:53.529 --> 00:20:00.016 Catholic as well, so um all our children are are baptized and so the 00:20:00.049 --> 00:20:04.575 godparents will name our children. Mhm. So, but that, that's the respect, 00:20:04.608 --> 00:20:08.976 you know, it's culture goes back to the culture and so, um, because the 00:20:09.009 --> 00:20:15.016 godparents are also supporters of of our children, they're equally as we 00:20:15.049 --> 00:20:20.736 are as the parents to to our children. Yes, it, it's, it goes also to show 00:20:20.769 --> 00:20:24.016 that sense of community and we were looking at the wedding photos and this 00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:28.416 idea of sponsors for your wedding. Can you explain that or talk about your 00:20:28.449 --> 00:20:31.575 weddings? 00:20:31.608 --> 00:20:37.226 Well, we, we choose the couple that's gonna sponsor our weddings so that 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:42.717 they, they, we make them as our parents, yeah, they're our parents they're 00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:49.196 going to guide them as a couple, as, um, and so then then you go back to 00:20:49.229 --> 00:20:55.496 extended families and so um we're all intertwined. Yeah, the photos 00:20:55.529 --> 00:21:01.335 there's the sponsors of the sponsors it's really lovely so that you know 00:21:01.368 --> 00:21:05.607 just again that embeddedness in the community and having your support 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:09.206 network and it gives you that that like yeah, you said that support 00:21:09.239 --> 00:21:14.656 network that you know that you'll have someone to advise if you know you 00:21:14.689 --> 00:21:21.217 need it and and and along those same lines as um it does get, you know, we 00:21:21.250 --> 00:21:26.305 do go. There sometimes our roads are rocky and we need someone and then 00:21:26.338 --> 00:21:32.585 along the same lines to celebrate and to be able to um support in in the 00:21:32.618 --> 00:21:39.305 good and the bad times. And so the same thing with being a godparent um my 00:21:39.338 --> 00:21:45.706 uh my brother's sister, I uh baptized her daughter, so, um, so I'm equally 00:21:45.739 --> 00:21:52.857 responsible, you know, to help support, um, and advice and, you know. And 00:21:52.890 --> 00:22:00.890 and do whatever it is I can to help mom. And um but she's in Phoenix, so. 00:22:01.420 --> 00:22:07.085 I miss her so yeah, so but, but I guess you know along those same lines to 00:22:07.118 --> 00:22:12.397 help support that um you're not doing this. I don't think at any rate, um 00:22:12.430 --> 00:22:19.686 , in our community you you wanna attempt to feel you're alone. Um, because 00:22:19.719 --> 00:22:24.887 you would hope to have that someone in your support network to help you or 00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:29.607 to talk to. So it, it kind of goes along those same lines, just like 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.246 siblings, you know, you you, you wouldn't have done it if you didn't have 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:40.526 siblings or if you didn't have cousins or people you grew up with and so 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.246 yeah, that closeness is important, yeah, or that togetherness. I think 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:49.347 that's the biggest thing in our community, that togetherness. Um, being 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:56.377 able to um. Yeah, appreciate that togetherness, yeah, yeah, so yeah, it's 00:22:56.410 --> 00:23:01.315 a beautiful idea and. And practice. 00:23:01.348 --> 00:23:05.627 When you had your first baby, since that was the first baby, you know, 00:23:05.660 --> 00:23:11.055 here, did um. I assume you had the baby vaginally and everything was OK. 00:23:11.088 --> 00:23:17.085 Yeah, she was just small. She only weighed 4 or 9. 00:23:17.118 --> 00:23:24.795 Yeah, and she's tall. No, um, he had taken me to an appointment too. Uh, 00:23:24.828 --> 00:23:30.956 we came home. He went to go do his thing at his, the, uh, ranch, and then 00:23:30.989 --> 00:23:36.815 I was home with my grandma. And it was towards the evening, huh, I usually 00:23:36.848 --> 00:23:41.946 go sit outside with my grandmother. And 00:23:41.979 --> 00:23:46.877 I, I couldn't sit sit still for some reason, and she noticed right away 00:23:46.910 --> 00:23:51.196 cause my grandma was asking me, are you OK? And she can't, are you sure 00:23:51.229 --> 00:23:58.206 you're not, you know, is it time? No, I'm OK. I told her, you know. 00:23:58.239 --> 00:24:04.367 Then finally said, no, no, mom, it, it hurts. I told her. 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:11.085 And then my cousin used to live with us. So then um I couldn't reach him. 00:24:11.118 --> 00:24:16.555 So then my cousin drove me up to the hospital. Yeah. 00:24:16.588 --> 00:24:24.588 But did your grandmother meet you there? or were you there with no, 00:24:28.578 --> 00:24:32.305 no, so yeah, it's a yeah, I think our mom was there at the time. Yeah, but 00:24:32.338 --> 00:24:36.785 anyway she went, but otherwise, uh, then he came later. My daughter was 00:24:36.818 --> 00:24:39.706 born then, so. 00:24:39.739 --> 00:24:45.147 So I assumed you had the baby and then they took her out and said, It's a 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:51.035 girl. Yeah, yeah. That's what it was. What was, what were your feelings 00:24:51.068 --> 00:24:58.147 about that? I was happy. I mean, yeah, it felt good to have her out now, 00:24:58.180 --> 00:25:05.097 and yeah, just to hear the cry. Mhm. Yeah, what did, what did she look 00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:10.236 like to you? I mean, what do you remember her face as a baby? 00:25:10.269 --> 00:25:17.726 Yeah, she looked like her looked like her dad a lot. 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:23.085 Had you nourished or did you bottle feed? Um, I tried to breastfeed, but I 00:25:23.118 --> 00:25:28.585 guess I wasn't producing much. So I had um. 00:25:28.618 --> 00:25:32.065 Um, they gave me, um, you know how they give you the packs from um the 00:25:32.098 --> 00:25:38.176 hospital, so I tried that on her and she went. Went on the bottle. 00:25:38.209 --> 00:25:43.686 Yeah, nursing is a challenge. I only had one breast that made milk. 00:25:43.719 --> 00:25:48.285 One day, I tried. 00:25:48.318 --> 00:25:52.916 Well, when you have twins that you and and when they ask me, are you going 00:25:52.949 --> 00:25:57.026 to breastfeed? Are you kidding? I said, no. 00:25:57.059 --> 00:26:04.256 I probably only try one day at the hospital and. I just, I couldn't do it. 00:26:04.289 --> 00:26:09.295 And I was honest and I can't do it. Just just because and then culturally 00:26:09.328 --> 00:26:12.815 I didn't know the culturally and then I know that breastfeeding is the 00:26:12.848 --> 00:26:17.825 best way for our children to be nourished and It's just probably was not 00:26:17.858 --> 00:26:23.387 something that I mean I couldn't I think I did it with my son I can't 00:26:23.420 --> 00:26:28.266 remember, but the majority of my, I think I did it when I had my son I 00:26:28.299 --> 00:26:32.706 probably breastfed him a month and then the rest of my children, all my 00:26:32.739 --> 00:26:37.426 children are bottle fed. Yeah, so, but so let's get back to your story. So 00:26:37.459 --> 00:26:41.706 you were police escorted to or to the hospital. Oh yeah, this is with the 00:26:41.739 --> 00:26:47.426 twins? No, no, this was my first child, and so, um, so that that birth 00:26:47.459 --> 00:26:52.147 wasn't that long. We got there probably about 6:30 in the morning. She was 00:26:52.180 --> 00:26:57.946 born at 2:29 in the afternoon, so she's my afternoon child. Uh, my son is 00:26:57.979 --> 00:27:02.055 my nighttime child. He was born before 10. He was actually born the day 00:27:02.088 --> 00:27:07.075 before my birthday. And so he and I almost came to be have the same 00:27:07.108 --> 00:27:12.926 birthday. And so him and I, um, uh, because we're Scorpios, we don't get 00:27:12.959 --> 00:27:20.959 along sometimes. So just because of our nature, I guess. Um, the girls, um. 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:24.039 Gosh, I was, well, how old I was I? 37 at the time, 36. I hadn't had 00:27:28.838 --> 00:27:34.097 children like I say, all my children 8 years apart. And so when Dontrell 00:27:34.130 --> 00:27:41.956 was born, Darell was gonna be, I think 8 going on 8. The girls were born 00:27:41.989 --> 00:27:49.555 in April. And so, um, when Don Trell was turning 8, I, I was carrying the 00:27:49.588 --> 00:27:57.588 girls, the, the twins. Um, Funny thing, same thing going up for a going in 00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:04.446 for a routine exam. Um, funny thing about that is I got to see them. That 00:28:04.479 --> 00:28:12.335 small. There were dogs. And And I remember the lady, she was from this art 00:28:12.368 --> 00:28:16.877 community, you know, she just walked in, just her eyes all like, what? I 00:28:16.910 --> 00:28:22.565 said, what's wrong? What? And she was like, twice, she goes, twice. I did 00:28:22.598 --> 00:28:29.867 the, did the test twice. Are you pregnant, she goes like, oh my, am I, you 00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:37.900 did the test. And then she says I saw too. And so OK. And to react to have 00:28:41.500 --> 00:28:44.847 been told to have twins. 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.575 Uh 00:28:47.608 --> 00:28:55.256 It was amazing, I guess in a sense. I guess in I wasn't so much worried as 00:28:55.289 --> 00:29:03.289 far as um. You know, like you can't ask how did this happen, um, then, but 00:29:03.979 --> 00:29:10.357 um, was just like. I remember that that day and I was waiting and I sat 00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:18.256 there and I was like. So what do I expect? How does that feel? Um, one, it 00:29:18.289 --> 00:29:22.295 was also, and, you know, through the months carrying them, you know, they 00:29:22.328 --> 00:29:28.446 say you're high risk. Um, but through the months, they started to grow, 00:29:28.479 --> 00:29:35.756 having to go to exams and, you know, being able to Um, I never really, I 00:29:35.789 --> 00:29:39.637 guess I took care of myself, you know, taking my vitamins, especially 00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:47.670 having twins. I went to my my checkups. Um, I didn't really too much of an 00:29:49.539 --> 00:29:55.085 extent watch what I ate because I felt like everything I ate was 00:29:55.118 --> 00:29:59.075 everything they were eating. So a lot of the things the girls like to eat 00:29:59.108 --> 00:30:04.835 is what I ate already when I was carrying them. Um, I worked all the way 00:30:04.868 --> 00:30:12.868 to the day I delivered them. Um, and so same thing, um. I used to drive a 00:30:13.469 --> 00:30:18.637 long bed truck. I used to drive a 15 passenger van. I worked to the day I 00:30:18.670 --> 00:30:22.676 worked to the days. My first one, I didn't, I don't know if I worked with 00:30:22.709 --> 00:30:27.555 my first one. I can't remember. My second son, my second child, I worked, 00:30:27.588 --> 00:30:32.637 I was at work and then I clocked out and was ready to go have my son, um, 00:30:32.670 --> 00:30:37.916 with the same thing with the girls, went to a prenatal exam that morning. 00:30:37.949 --> 00:30:44.266 Um, I was at work that day. Um, and I don't remember some things were 00:30:44.299 --> 00:30:48.347 happening at at work and I told my coworkers I'm gonna leave you all 00:30:48.380 --> 00:30:52.506 behind. I'm not coming back tomorrow. This is, I think, a Thursday, and so 00:30:52.539 --> 00:30:58.785 , you know, I'm, I'm gonna go have my girls this evening and so and so I'm 00:30:58.818 --> 00:31:03.906 not coming back. I'll see you guys in two months or so and so but um but I 00:31:03.939 --> 00:31:09.467 think just the experience was hard. One of my daughters was um. When I was 00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:15.387 getting, we were getting close to about, I want to say 6 months. Um, we 00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:19.627 went to an ultrasound and we were told one of my daughters was um the 00:31:19.660 --> 00:31:24.406 umbilical cord was wrapping around her arm. And so my daughter was one of 00:31:24.439 --> 00:31:27.835 my daughters was born with MDM syndrome. 00:31:27.868 --> 00:31:34.805 Her, her arm didn't fully grow. And so, um, she has a kind of she has a, 00:31:34.838 --> 00:31:40.535 we call her hand baby hand. And so she's got uh digits. So her, her, the 00:31:40.568 --> 00:31:45.246 wrist, she's got her arms about this long and her her fingers and her arms 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:51.627 didn't grow fully. And so. 00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:54.597 I don't know if. 00:31:54.630 --> 00:32:02.630 I can't say how we how to have reacted to that. Um, Because I guess. I 00:32:04.009 --> 00:32:09.055 don't know what other people would have expected to have her be perfect, 00:32:09.088 --> 00:32:17.088 knowing that. You know, That that we had to understand. But um, but she 00:32:17.949 --> 00:32:23.107 came to this world and um she goes to school. They've been going to school 00:32:23.140 --> 00:32:28.545 for ever since they were 3 months old because I went back to work. Um, if 00:32:28.578 --> 00:32:31.565 I didn't send them to school, especially Katie is the one that has the 00:32:31.598 --> 00:32:39.598 amnionic band syndrome, um. I don't think she she completely adjusted well. 00:32:39.989 --> 00:32:44.956 A lot of people have suggested us to get a prosthetic, but. I don't think 00:32:44.989 --> 00:32:50.666 it's necessary because we accept her fully. Um, she's a whole child to us 00:32:50.699 --> 00:32:58.035 and especially twins have a powerful nature in our culture. And so, um, 00:32:58.068 --> 00:33:03.805 and, and there isn't anything um. At 4 years old, she can't do that, uh, 00:33:03.838 --> 00:33:10.387 whatever you call a normal child does. And so, um, but I think that was in 00:33:10.420 --> 00:33:15.416 a way shocking. But in a way, you know what what could we have done, you 00:33:15.449 --> 00:33:20.877 know, what did we do? But then it goes back to genetics, it goes back to 00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:27.137 all these things, DNA, whatever. And so, but, but we knew, you know, her 00:33:27.170 --> 00:33:32.976 her dad and I knew, and I can't remember if I told my family, but um, but 00:33:33.009 --> 00:33:41.009 she came into this world. And she's here with us now. And so, um, you know 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:45.526 , seeing her dance today and, you know, the things she can do, and there 00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:50.166 isn't anything she can't do. I guess I'm just worried more about the world 00:33:50.199 --> 00:33:57.967 and people and how they accept her. But she's much, you know, she's she's 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:05.736 happy. So, um, but it's just hard to. And and the kids she goes to school 00:34:05.769 --> 00:34:10.537 with, you know, they, kids in their own way tend to always understand more 00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:16.787 than us as adults. And so So that's what the kids call her, um her arm is 00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:21.276 her call her baby head. And she, that's what she calls her baby head, and 00:34:21.309 --> 00:34:26.717 she'll hug you, she'll, she can feel with her digits. So she'll rub your 00:34:26.750 --> 00:34:32.865 face and she'll, you know, she's a loving child and so. So my experience 00:34:32.898 --> 00:34:39.305 with um with that was, it was hard, but. You know, I guess in, in my way, 00:34:39.338 --> 00:34:45.055 we, we accepted her from, from that, you know, from the beginning. And, 00:34:45.088 --> 00:34:51.376 and I'm sure they might have been something they could have done. But But 00:34:51.409 --> 00:34:57.497 why? I said, what, what, you know, what, why do we have to, you know, she 00:34:57.530 --> 00:35:03.445 didn't come, she did come with 10 fingers, 10 toes. And maybe not to 00:35:03.478 --> 00:35:09.486 everybody that that's that obvious, but um to us she did come that way. 00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:14.046 And so, and then and like I said, I can't really say whether it was 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:20.557 genetics or if it was um what it was, but. There really was no point in 00:35:20.590 --> 00:35:25.517 trying to find out because, you know, irregardless of whatever facts, you 00:35:25.550 --> 00:35:31.356 know, we, you know, we accepted her. And and it's the same thing God gave. 00:35:31.389 --> 00:35:36.247 God sent her to us that way. And maybe to us it's something, well, let's 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:40.517 see how they'll take care of her. Will they take care of her? Will they 00:35:40.550 --> 00:35:47.396 push her away? But Katie is, is so special. Katie just, she loves to, to 00:35:47.429 --> 00:35:55.066 draw. She loves to color. Um, she's a little more um. Down to earth than 00:35:55.099 --> 00:36:00.506 the other twin, the other twin, she's wild, but um, but I guess in our own 00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:04.706 way, you wouldn't have it any other way if you're, if your kids don't 00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:09.827 drive you crazy, then you're not happy. If, if you wouldn't have the 00:36:09.860 --> 00:36:16.206 uniqueness of all of them around you, um, that life wouldn't be the same. 00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:19.936 And so, but I think, I think that was probably the hardest pregnancy I've 00:36:19.969 --> 00:36:25.175 ever had. Um, with was with my twins. My first two were um they were um 00:36:25.208 --> 00:36:29.896 vaginally born, but with the girls because I was a high risk pregnancy, 00:36:29.929 --> 00:36:35.615 plus Katie didn't turn, so she was high, and then she was breech. Casey 00:36:35.648 --> 00:36:41.977 was low and, you know, in that in that position. But Katie, she just never 00:36:42.010 --> 00:36:49.635 wanted to turn and I I think it was about 27 weeks. Um, so once she turned 00:36:49.668 --> 00:36:53.675 and then went back the week later. I'm not doing this, you know, I'm not 00:36:53.708 --> 00:36:57.517 turning, you know, and even to the point when we had ultrasounds, she 00:36:57.550 --> 00:37:01.706 would never let them take her, take her picture. But the funny thing when 00:37:01.739 --> 00:37:06.227 I watch them sleep at night is I see their nose. I remember her little 00:37:06.260 --> 00:37:10.186 button nose and just that little round the silhouette of her, her first 00:37:10.219 --> 00:37:15.586 side face and Casey is almost similar, but Katie was always the one that 00:37:15.619 --> 00:37:19.827 she would hide and she would turn and you know, she would, she would 00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:25.865 always like trick everybody but so, so with the twins, um, I had a 00:37:25.898 --> 00:37:27.997 C-section. 00:37:28.030 --> 00:37:35.537 Uh, wasn't the greatest experience, um, because, um. I, I assumed they 00:37:35.570 --> 00:37:39.936 watched, you know, once you're sedated or once you're numb, I guess you 00:37:39.969 --> 00:37:45.256 watch. I don't, I didn't get to have that experience because um I was 00:37:45.289 --> 00:37:49.736 taken in to have the girls um I was, I was dilated, but I knew I was 00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:54.896 having a C-section anyway. I knew I was having a vaginal birth, but, and 00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:59.856 this was like 2. 3 o'clock 2 let's say 2 in the morning because it went 00:37:59.889 --> 00:38:05.217 really it apparently it went really quick, but I don't remember um but 00:38:05.250 --> 00:38:10.416 what I really what I, what really traumatizes me even today is they um 00:38:10.449 --> 00:38:18.449 they numbed my body but they cut me before I was numb. And And they cut me 00:38:18.579 --> 00:38:23.615 twice. And I was telling my boyfriend, tell them I'm not numb, don't tell 00:38:23.648 --> 00:38:29.095 them to cut me anymore because I remember they cut me on this side. And 00:38:29.128 --> 00:38:35.155 then my body wasn't numb yet. Then they finally had to sedate me. And then 00:38:35.188 --> 00:38:39.356 they had to, he had to leave the room. And then I asked, and I even, you 00:38:39.389 --> 00:38:45.115 know, some days the trauma comes back because um I don't, I didn't know 00:38:45.148 --> 00:38:48.876 what happened. And then I asked my boy, were you in there? He goes, no, I 00:38:48.909 --> 00:38:54.557 had to leave because they told me. And so it's kind of uh a little bit of 00:38:54.590 --> 00:39:01.267 a void that I don't know. I've been kind of curious to go and ask to see 00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:06.606 my file, what happened, how my girls were born. Because it it really is, 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:14.095 um, it was on me. Because it was the hardest experience I ever had. Was um 00:39:14.128 --> 00:39:21.686 feeling that and not, you know, experience it at all. But They were born, 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:27.747 they were born healthy. And so I think Casey was a little smaller, she was 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:33.477 about almost 5, and Katie was close to being 6 pounds. So and we were, we 00:39:33.510 --> 00:39:36.916 were, I probably would have made it to 40 weeks if the, if my coworkers 00:39:36.949 --> 00:39:44.566 didn't make me mad. And um I was 37 weeks with twins. And it was probably 00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:49.486 the biggest I ever got. And everybody was like, you, I, I just grew in 00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:55.606 like 3 weeks in all the time that I was carrying them and um but I think 00:39:55.639 --> 00:40:00.686 that was probably the hardest thing was and and I don't know um. How it is 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:06.776 for other women that have had C-sections, um, whether it's traumatizing. 00:40:06.809 --> 00:40:10.467 And it was for me, you know, if if I had my way, I would have had them 00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:17.026 vaginally. But that's just not the way it went. But um and I and I think 00:40:17.059 --> 00:40:20.146 about it and I say, you know, it could have come down to where I could 00:40:20.179 --> 00:40:25.666 have sued the the hospital because of malpractice. I wasn't ready or my 00:40:25.699 --> 00:40:30.747 body wasn't ready. So for me I think that that's kind of a little bit of 00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:35.827 it just my, my mental health is kind of, you know, I think of it sometimes 00:40:35.860 --> 00:40:39.106 , but then I said, you know, well they're healthy, they're they're, you 00:40:39.139 --> 00:40:43.997 know, 4 now and Um, but I think just the trauma, you know, the trauma, 00:40:44.030 --> 00:40:50.675 even just trauma of having uh a vaginal birth is sometimes that way. So it 00:40:50.708 --> 00:40:58.195 was just the hardest for me, um. And so I just. I think it's just 00:40:58.228 --> 00:41:03.756 something that comes back sometimes and I think about it. Um, but I also 00:41:03.789 --> 00:41:07.747 think, you know, what other woman has experienced the same thing I did. 00:41:07.780 --> 00:41:13.436 And so and and and was the hospital known for that because it is scary. I 00:41:13.469 --> 00:41:19.037 , I thought I was, you know, the only thing I remember was I remember um 00:41:19.070 --> 00:41:24.925 my girls were born at 2:57 and 2:58 in the morning. And that was probably 00:41:24.958 --> 00:41:31.126 about 45 minutes later after I, and so I always feel like, you know, I 00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:36.445 missed 45 minutes of my life, and where did it go? And I don't, I don't 00:41:36.478 --> 00:41:40.916 know what was going on or what happened to me. So it was it's something 00:41:40.949 --> 00:41:45.396 that I think of, but something I know I have to let go cause my girls are 00:41:45.429 --> 00:41:52.086 fine, they're healthy. And so, um, but I just remember being um. Wheel 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:56.845 down the hall back to my room and the girls were there and I remember 00:41:56.878 --> 00:42:02.856 carrying the girls and. Um, and just that, you know, and and just. You 00:42:02.889 --> 00:42:08.736 know, just having them there, um, I remember bathing them because they're 00:42:08.769 --> 00:42:14.655 so small in those little yellow, those pants, those, um, bed pants, yeah, 00:42:14.688 --> 00:42:19.186 and I remember Casey was so small she would take baths and then the second 00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:22.175 day they were born, the first day they were born, you know, they just kind 00:42:22.208 --> 00:42:26.537 of washed them all. So ever since the 2nd day we started giving them baths 00:42:26.570 --> 00:42:31.845 and ever since then, um, always, you know, made it necessary. But they 00:42:31.878 --> 00:42:36.796 were so tiny and I remember Casey came, we always tell her, you came home 00:42:36.829 --> 00:42:42.206 in a pan, I told her because she had had the little um uh car seat where 00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.885 she was because she had to go in the little little car because it was like 00:42:45.918 --> 00:42:50.046 a yeah like I said, like a pan and then um Katie, Katie was the one that 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:54.787 came home in the in the car seat because Casey was too small. So they 00:42:54.820 --> 00:42:59.227 wouldn't let her, let them bring her home, let us, let us bring her home 00:42:59.260 --> 00:43:03.586 until she was able to fit in a car seat properly. So Casey came home when 00:43:03.619 --> 00:43:08.836 this was interesting, like a, like a cake pan. 00:43:08.869 --> 00:43:15.077 And so, but, but even that experience, um, as small as she was, we had to 00:43:15.110 --> 00:43:20.517 keep her in the ICU unit because I think she got scared with the harness 00:43:20.550 --> 00:43:24.997 and so we were on our 3rd day they were, we were gonna come home the 3rd 00:43:25.030 --> 00:43:30.236 day of our hospital stay but because Casey's um oxygen level was dropping 00:43:30.269 --> 00:43:35.155 , they didn't want us to bring, they didn't want us to bring her home. 00:43:35.188 --> 00:43:38.236 Even though the hospital say you can leave her and they're like no we're 00:43:38.269 --> 00:43:42.195 not gonna leave her, you know, and so we'll see how she does tomorrow so 00:43:42.228 --> 00:43:47.546 we went on until 4th day. I I'd rather take them both home um at the same 00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:51.356 time, not leave one and you know because they're gonna, they're going to 00:43:51.389 --> 00:43:57.537 miss one another. So Casey went for one evening to ICU, so then the 00:43:57.570 --> 00:44:01.816 following morning they checked her out, strapped her back in, and she did 00:44:01.849 --> 00:44:08.206 better, so we came home. And so, um. One of my other relatives was talking 00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:13.845 about um pictures that they had on their baby shower because we have um 00:44:13.878 --> 00:44:18.566 cradle boards so they were both in two cradle boards, yeah, it's because 00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:21.997 we have cradle boards for our children and so they're saying I remember 00:44:22.030 --> 00:44:25.236 when the girls, oh, it was, it's their babysitter across the street 00:44:25.269 --> 00:44:27.807 because and then she has pictures of the girls when they're in their 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.997 cradle boards and they were strapped in and I remember they had two little 00:44:32.030 --> 00:44:38.066 bassinets and. Two of everything and as we can as we still continue to 00:44:38.099 --> 00:44:43.736 have everything today but um yeah I think it was a unique experience uh 00:44:43.769 --> 00:44:48.706 very unique experience for me. We were talking to a woman um earlier today 00:44:48.739 --> 00:44:52.066 who said that after when she decided she didn't want any more children to 00:44:52.099 --> 00:44:56.675 dismantle the cradle board, 00:44:56.708 --> 00:44:58.796 wow. 00:44:58.829 --> 00:45:05.727 So there's nothing you guys left, you still have your cradle. Yeah, 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:09.077 yes we do. Yeah, I think that's going overboard if we do that. Well, she 00:45:09.110 --> 00:45:14.276 really did not want another child. Well, I think and then that's why 00:45:14.309 --> 00:45:19.517 saying things change because there's a, there's a whole purpose to the 00:45:19.550 --> 00:45:27.550 cradle board because it's just, it's another. Step to the child growing 00:45:27.610 --> 00:45:34.175 because um. They're used to being this way because then they say like 00:45:34.208 --> 00:45:40.615 their their uh joints are growing, yeah, like keys yeah yeah and um 00:45:40.648 --> 00:45:44.816 they're like they can't do this yet because they're used to being this way. 00:45:44.849 --> 00:45:49.796 So we're we're um If if that was one of the things that I think I learned 00:45:49.829 --> 00:45:54.727 from my grandmother was to put them back down was to put their arms back 00:45:54.760 --> 00:46:00.675 and and uh put the um they do that now and and it's interesting to see 00:46:00.708 --> 00:46:04.635 that because it it's something we were always told to do is to put them 00:46:04.668 --> 00:46:09.307 back in, put them back down, meaning put their arms back in because 00:46:09.340 --> 00:46:13.916 they're used to that position and they'll sleep better. And so like with 00:46:13.949 --> 00:46:17.115 the cradle board, we covered them back up. It's just like being back in 00:46:17.148 --> 00:46:21.115 the womb, cause that's where they were in the last 9 months. They're not 00:46:21.148 --> 00:46:26.486 used to all this, you know. Um, although, like I said, we don't do that as 00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:30.885 much, you know, I, I can't carry a baby that it's like I don't know what 00:46:30.918 --> 00:46:35.566 I'm gonna do because they're not, it's on it's like it's hard for me to 00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:39.166 because it's, it's like I don't know how to do with them because I don't 00:46:39.199 --> 00:46:43.807 want them to fall over. Oh, that's beautiful. You have the girls' pictures 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:47.365 who made that? Oh that 00:46:47.398 --> 00:46:52.845 that's. Our nephew, um, this is actually the Navajo cradle board because 00:46:52.878 --> 00:46:57.497 on his side of the family they have the navel, but ours, it's similar. So 00:46:57.530 --> 00:47:02.327 yeah, that's my little you should have seen him sing, yeah, and that's how 00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:06.327 they're put down who makes the cradle boards in the family. The the father 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.336 is the one that makes that. So is that a skill that's passed down? Yeah, 00:47:10.369 --> 00:47:12.537 yeah. 00:47:12.570 --> 00:47:17.896 My father has to provide that. Did your, did your father teach you? Yeah, 00:47:17.929 --> 00:47:21.416 yeah, or it's both father and son making the cradle board and you will 00:47:21.449 --> 00:47:23.916 teach your son, 00:47:23.949 --> 00:47:30.365 yeah, not yet, not yet, not those two. 00:47:30.398 --> 00:47:35.247 It's interesting because you know Western culture, you swaddle, and it's 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:40.276 the same kind of idea, right? I don't know if the swaddling is a new 00:47:40.309 --> 00:47:43.486 generation thing or an old generation thing, but I feel like it's fairly 00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:48.436 new still with you in more urban areas that the swaddling is like a new 00:47:48.469 --> 00:47:52.327 thing. But that makes so much sense. So do you feel like it's some sort of 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:58.336 way of helping the baby transition from the from the womb to the Well, 00:47:58.369 --> 00:48:04.017 they tend to say it's a way of calmness, teaching, it's almost already 00:48:04.050 --> 00:48:11.017 teaching them like tolerance to calm calming them. Um, and that it it's 00:48:11.050 --> 00:48:17.606 just being on the outside world, you know, and. Yeah, it's to teach them 00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:24.175 to be calm, to sleep better, and, and I often wonder, all my children are 00:48:24.208 --> 00:48:30.267 night sleepers. My girls, I knew 6 o'clock in the morning. OK, girls, are 00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:36.615 you awake? And even when they were born, they were early risers. And so 00:48:36.648 --> 00:48:41.115 they kept the same schedule. And which was good because then he went to 00:48:41.148 --> 00:48:45.997 school today. I don't know. Some days they don't get up right away, but um 00:48:46.030 --> 00:48:50.477 , but that was that's that's why when I hear other people talk about I 00:48:50.510 --> 00:48:55.276 can't get them to bed and I think one of the things that um you have to do 00:48:55.309 --> 00:49:00.586 , which sometimes isn't something we tend to do is structure is being able 00:49:00.619 --> 00:49:08.619 to, um, because I worked, I get off at 55 to 10 is our. 5 to 6 we eat 7 to 00:49:08.989 --> 00:49:15.595 8 we have um bath time then 8 to 10 is just bringing them back down um and 00:49:15.628 --> 00:49:19.756 it's, it's something that I remember my grandma would say is don't get 00:49:19.789 --> 00:49:25.307 work, don't work them up but he put them to bed when they're calm. And 00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:30.626 they'll go to bed. My two some nights they, they wanna watch TV all night. 00:49:30.659 --> 00:49:36.267 We just came from my sister didn't go in. The toys are all over the um 00:49:36.300 --> 00:49:41.425 Santa came yesterday, so they got cash registers and a basket of a whole 00:49:41.458 --> 00:49:45.787 bunch of stuff, just grocery stuff and so they're all over the place. I 00:49:45.820 --> 00:49:50.425 saw a whole bunch of um hot dogs laying by the chimney and everything's 00:49:50.458 --> 00:49:57.436 all over the place, so, um. But it, it's just something, um, to be a 00:49:57.469 --> 00:50:04.675 parent. It is, it's not easy. I mean, I never these two girls, oh God, 00:50:04.708 --> 00:50:09.327 some days, and I'm and I'm thankful I have babysitters. My mom just 00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:13.876 retired, so I think she's barely learning in a way to be a grandma because 00:50:13.909 --> 00:50:18.077 she's, she wasn't, she didn't raise, right? They're like our kids are 00:50:18.110 --> 00:50:22.017 really not close to her. They're probably more close to my brother's 00:50:22.050 --> 00:50:27.115 family. And so the same thing my girls are more closer to their their 00:50:27.148 --> 00:50:33.077 dad's grandma because my mom works so she's barely learning to reacquaint 00:50:33.110 --> 00:50:40.956 herself, I think. Yeah, so how old was she when she finally retired? 00:50:40.989 --> 00:50:46.557 She's 62 now, so she's retired this year. And I said, are you serious? You 00:50:46.590 --> 00:50:51.115 know, cause my mom always worked. And so that's how we were raised by our 00:50:51.148 --> 00:50:55.905 our grandmother. And but I think I wouldn't have it, I wouldn't have had 00:50:55.938 --> 00:51:01.595 it any other way, because if that was the choice she had to make then. 00:51:01.628 --> 00:51:06.365 That's the choice she made. So you're in touch with your mom. I live with 00:51:06.398 --> 00:51:11.467 my mom. I live with my mom, yeah, she came back, yeah, and this is, I 00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:15.537 don't know how many years it's been, but I, I'm live with her now as an 00:51:15.570 --> 00:51:21.135 adult, so she knows what I'm talking about. I, I think it, it, it's harder 00:51:21.168 --> 00:51:29.168 to be an adult child of a of a parent that didn't see you grow up and now 00:51:29.378 --> 00:51:36.247 having to. Be a parent and raise your own family with, so it's hard, it's 00:51:36.280 --> 00:51:42.247 hard for me because, um, you know, grandma worked and now grandma is 00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:49.477 learning to be your grandma. And that's hard. And but yet we're adults and 00:51:49.510 --> 00:51:53.796 we have to make decisions how we're gonna raise our children, and then you 00:51:53.829 --> 00:52:00.217 tend to disagree. And and I think as a parent. You have to stand and say, 00:52:00.250 --> 00:52:05.606 you know what, mom, uh, I'm the parent, you're the grandma. OK? Got it? 00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:10.537 Good. OK, great. And so a lot of that, um, it is hard, and I tend to tell 00:52:10.570 --> 00:52:18.115 my sister it's hard having to um be an adult child with her. Um, 00:52:18.148 --> 00:52:23.195 especially not having that closeness, and a lot of people, a lot of people 00:52:23.228 --> 00:52:28.997 to this day think we're all sisters, my aunt, my mom, and my sister and I. 00:52:29.030 --> 00:52:32.816 And so we're like, no, she's our mother. I thought your grandma I thought 00:52:32.849 --> 00:52:37.816 your grandma is your mother. No, we're like, so, so there's there's a lot 00:52:37.849 --> 00:52:43.586 of diff you know, challenges and um. But I, but because we're all 00:52:43.619 --> 00:52:50.186 sometimes tend to raise our families and extended family homes, um. It 00:52:50.219 --> 00:52:55.606 does get hard. And so, so you have to make a choice whether you know, you 00:52:55.639 --> 00:52:59.405 want advice and then you have to be an adult and say, you know, I 00:52:59.438 --> 00:53:03.405 appreciate it, but not right now, OK? Let me deal with them, how I want to 00:53:03.438 --> 00:53:07.365 deal with them because they are my children and I'm gonna have to deal 00:53:07.398 --> 00:53:13.845 with them and so, um, but I'm thankful um to, I have two babysitters, uh, 00:53:13.878 --> 00:53:19.856 well, one now, but um. The girls went to school at 3 months old and I'm 00:53:19.889 --> 00:53:25.577 thankful to my um my neighbors. They were my babies they were my girl's 00:53:25.610 --> 00:53:32.066 babysitters at 3 months old. Um, there isn't anything one of the 00:53:32.099 --> 00:53:37.626 babysitters would do for my girls. They're more attached to her than my 00:53:37.659 --> 00:53:40.546 mom. And so 00:53:40.579 --> 00:53:45.026 did you have sitters too, or how did you cope with your young kids? I took 00:53:45.059 --> 00:53:49.916 them to town. They were the business ladies. Yeah, well, that's how we 00:53:49.949 --> 00:53:54.267 were raised under the table. We were, we were raised that way and I was 00:53:54.300 --> 00:53:59.276 fortunate that I didn't work well. I worked, well, I make jewelry with my 00:53:59.309 --> 00:54:04.376 grandmother, so I took them with me to Old Town. I had him with me all the 00:54:04.409 --> 00:54:07.936 time. If not, you know, he would take them too sometimes, but otherwise, 00:54:07.969 --> 00:54:13.517 yeah, I would have him there with me, all of my kids. And, and now they're 00:54:13.550 --> 00:54:19.336 learning the same skills and are they going to eventually. Take over, 00:54:19.369 --> 00:54:27.369 right. I don't know. I say no. I guess not. 00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:31.787 But I enjoy what I do over there, I mean, that's all I've known all my 00:54:31.820 --> 00:54:38.706 life. Doing that, yeah. Although, you know, at times I, I wonder what if I 00:54:38.739 --> 00:54:43.675 would have gone back to school, things like that. But after our 00:54:43.708 --> 00:54:49.017 grandfather died, I grew up quick cuz I had to learn how to drive. I had 00:54:49.050 --> 00:54:53.095 to learn how to drive to my grandmother around and I start taking her to 00:54:53.128 --> 00:54:57.416 Old Town because prior to that, it would be my grandfather and I to go 00:54:57.449 --> 00:55:03.046 sell. But after he was gone, then yeah, I started taking my grandmother. 00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:08.595 How old were you? I was, I was barely starting high school when he passed 00:55:08.628 --> 00:55:10.807 , 00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:14.206 yeah, because I remember we went to school at the ending school and so 00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:19.276 it's 9th grade 10th grade. I was in 9th grade I think we we used to go to 00:55:19.309 --> 00:55:25.376 boarding school. And so, um. So that that's kind of the reason why we, we 00:55:25.409 --> 00:55:33.046 have to grow up quick, um. We just had to, I guess. And so our 00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:38.267 understandings of the boarding school was that um in the past, they were 00:55:38.300 --> 00:55:45.945 meant to kind of assimilate and to strip away culture and to really had 00:55:45.978 --> 00:55:51.586 kind of terrible connotations, but when you went, it wasn't so much I 00:55:51.619 --> 00:55:55.517 think that was those are different areas. Like if you want to talk about 00:55:55.550 --> 00:56:00.506 Carlisle Indian School. Um, those and, and the locations. Carlisle is in 00:56:00.539 --> 00:56:06.706 Pennsylvania, right? So there were different because when, when we were, 00:56:06.739 --> 00:56:13.086 when New Mexico's actually settled, um, You know, it came from the east. 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:19.287 We were in the southwest, you know, some of the relocation happened as far 00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:25.856 as the Midwest, you know, and so like you hear we have Choctaw people that 00:56:25.889 --> 00:56:31.026 were living in Mississippi, but we're relocated to Oklahoma. And so I 00:56:31.059 --> 00:56:35.026 don't think a lot of that assimilation really affected us in in the 00:56:35.059 --> 00:56:39.885 Pueblos especially because we also were under before New Mexico became a 00:56:39.918 --> 00:56:44.997 state we were under Spanish that's how we were Catholics so we had day 00:56:45.030 --> 00:56:51.635 schools we already had day schools on the reservation. So later on I think. 00:56:51.668 --> 00:56:56.517 Then the um there used to be a Catholic school in Santa Fe called Saint 00:56:56.550 --> 00:57:01.077 Catharines, and then Santa Fe Indian School was actually in Albuquerque 00:57:01.110 --> 00:57:07.865 Indian school. So, um, And so I, I honestly don't think that. I mean, 00:57:07.898 --> 00:57:13.925 there's historical trauma at any rate, however you see it. Um, but I don't 00:57:13.958 --> 00:57:19.807 think that as a pueblo person historical trauma really we have our own 00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:23.876 historical trauma, I'll say it that way but not I don't think as an effect 00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:29.606 of as a, you know, as, as how we were affected by boarding schools we 00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:34.037 weren't assimilated that way. Because they still spoke their language as 00:57:34.070 --> 00:57:37.916 far as what I know, and some of the people I've worked with in the 00:57:37.949 --> 00:57:42.517 community have, they have it's interesting experiences that they used to 00:57:42.550 --> 00:57:46.796 run away from Santa Fe and come home, then their parents would send them 00:57:46.829 --> 00:57:51.436 back and they're like, you gotta go back to school. And and I'm really 00:57:51.469 --> 00:57:55.396 really proud of some of the people in our community, um, going off to 00:57:55.429 --> 00:58:00.396 college, older people. And so it was supportive, I think, you know, and, 00:58:00.429 --> 00:58:05.796 and education is our key, you know, I mean both we're we're always taught 00:58:05.829 --> 00:58:10.956 to live in both worlds, our own culture and and outside outside western 00:58:10.989 --> 00:58:16.557 culture. So I mean, I don't think that that's the type of assimilation 00:58:16.590 --> 00:58:23.436 that happened here. Because we had board, we had day schools. So somehow 00:58:23.469 --> 00:58:30.445 education was embraced and not detrimental to our people. And so I think 00:58:30.478 --> 00:58:37.166 that's just the way it is today. And so, but is that difficult at times 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:44.925 balancing those two worlds? You know, 00:58:44.958 --> 00:58:52.477 Or just feels natural. Not really. I don't think it unless if you want to 00:58:52.510 --> 00:58:57.115 be radical about it, you know, and think, you know, and hate the white 00:58:57.148 --> 00:59:02.327 government, do as much as you want. I don't care, but, but I think that I 00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:08.776 think one of the things is that we are citizens of this country. No matter 00:59:08.809 --> 00:59:13.467 what color or where you immigrated from, nobody's, I mean, we're the true 00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:19.106 native people. We came here, we lived here, people are from here. Um, 00:59:19.139 --> 00:59:25.706 everyone else, yes, came to, you know, um, but. I've never been taught to 00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:30.247 hate, you know, any race because that's the same thing because then we 00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:36.247 grew up around people in old town and so we were, we're not so hard to 00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:40.646 talk with meaning hi you know how you doing? and then it was it didn't 00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:46.287 matter whether you were blacks, Hispanic, white we were always taught that 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:51.686 you know that people were people. And so I don't think that really, I 00:59:51.719 --> 00:59:55.807 don't know, I just never grew up that way. I never grew up having to feel 00:59:55.840 --> 01:00:00.405 that way. I don't know in terms of that balance though, you know. Things 01:00:00.438 --> 01:00:05.566 that are customary for you like not naming your child. Was that a 01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:10.086 challenge in the hospital setting, like saying, I'm not going to write a 01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:14.526 name down on this? No, the hospital's understood, right? Yeah, but now 01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:19.287 it's. The last one, the last time I had the girls, um, they were still 01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:27.320 baby girl beta A and B. They were A and B, so we weren't pressured because 01:00:27.438 --> 01:00:32.365 the other thing, um, it depends on which hospital you go to, but it also 01:00:32.398 --> 01:00:39.006 goes back to um educating cultural competency. You have to, I mean, even 01:00:39.039 --> 01:00:43.445 though somebody that's an old custom, they don't do that anymore and but 01:00:43.478 --> 01:00:49.166 that's also our respect for our culture. Is that is that we give that and 01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:53.327 then some of the godparents I hear go down, right? They need the children 01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:58.925 there but for those of us, you know, we, and they ask, they ask you 01:00:58.958 --> 01:01:02.037 because when the girls were born, do you, do you have names for the girls 01:01:02.070 --> 01:01:07.486 or like. Or are they um and then we also they also had um native providers 01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:13.247 so the lady I spoke with I think she was from um another Pueblo so she 01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:15.945 understood you probably won't name your girl. She's like, no, we probably 01:01:15.978 --> 01:01:19.925 we probably won't. So when they came, OK, so then it was cute. They had 01:01:19.958 --> 01:01:24.807 little um little bands on their toes and then on their arms because 01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:30.577 nowadays they put those um. Uh, they're like chipped so that because they 01:01:30.610 --> 01:01:34.456 steal babies because I remember the girls that they had these little bands 01:01:34.489 --> 01:01:40.186 , yeah, so come in then the alarm will go off and so they were like, uh, 01:01:40.219 --> 01:01:44.175 they had bands were at the hospital we were so if somebody removed them or 01:01:44.208 --> 01:01:47.017 took them out of the hospital, the alarm will go off because they had to 01:01:47.050 --> 01:01:51.896 be removed before we took brought them home. And so, but, but the hospital 01:01:51.929 --> 01:01:56.905 we were at, um. They were culturally friendly and the same thing with the 01:01:56.938 --> 01:02:01.186 Santa Fe Indian Hospital, um, their cultural and I think just the state in 01:02:01.219 --> 01:02:06.106 general, they know like a vital statistics, the birth certificate or the I 01:02:06.139 --> 01:02:13.066 guess the uh paternity comes later once the names are given and so uh but 01:02:13.099 --> 01:02:19.816 . I just think I guess everyone, uh, every case is different nowadays. 01:02:19.849 --> 01:02:25.077 It's not, not customary to what, you know, what, what we're told anymore, 01:02:25.110 --> 01:02:31.997 I guess. So do you think your girls will carry on these traditions? Yes, I 01:02:32.030 --> 01:02:36.227 think they will. I hope they will. I mean, if we're, if we're still around 01:02:36.260 --> 01:02:41.756 , we know they will because I think it is important as much as my nephew 01:02:41.789 --> 01:02:49.477 and my son to be good fathers and to be good mothers, um, because that's I 01:02:49.510 --> 01:02:56.166 hope to say we've guide guide them enough to to fulfill those roles. So 01:02:56.199 --> 01:03:00.896 you know I'm really fascinated with this naming process because I couldn't 01:03:00.929 --> 01:03:05.057 imagine letting my mother name my son. Like there's something about that, 01:03:05.090 --> 01:03:09.537 but so do you, do the names have any significance or where do they come 01:03:09.570 --> 01:03:17.570 from? We've been asked, we have 10 we have 11 godchildren. We have 10 01:03:17.570 --> 01:03:23.307 girls we've named, and we have 1 boy. So we have 7 and 1 coming on the way 01:03:23.340 --> 01:03:30.655 over in January, yeah, yeah, and more, but um. We take turns naming, 01:03:30.688 --> 01:03:35.037 sometimes I'll do like the first name, he'll pick a middle name. I mean, 01:03:35.070 --> 01:03:41.586 we both, but do you consult with the parents like, no, no, no, no, no, 01:03:41.619 --> 01:03:47.276 it's what your child is named because we think they're not we think 01:03:47.309 --> 01:03:54.537 they're going to be blessed, you know, and we give that support back to. 01:03:54.570 --> 01:04:00.905 The godparents because they're gonna guide. Mhm. So it's a really special 01:04:00.938 --> 01:04:04.155 thing around here when you're asked to be godparents. Yeah, I would 01:04:04.188 --> 01:04:08.517 imagine that's a huge you know it's an honor. 01:04:08.550 --> 01:04:11.635 Well, if you think about it when you ask someone to be a godparent, the 01:04:11.668 --> 01:04:16.695 name that they give is probably. Ranks not very high on you know what I 01:04:16.728 --> 01:04:21.436 mean, bigger responsibilities involved in that 01:04:21.469 --> 01:04:25.526 than just my girls are one of the girls, uh, Casey, the one with the short 01:04:25.559 --> 01:04:29.517 hair, she's her middle name, she's named after my our grandmother. She's 01:04:29.550 --> 01:04:35.336 her name's Tonita and then Katie's named after my grandmother's sister. 01:04:35.369 --> 01:04:43.369 Her name's Louisa. So. Um, my godmother's mother told, um, our godmother 01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:50.425 to name them, rename them that because my mom told her to, you should name 01:04:50.458 --> 01:04:56.365 them Tonita, and, and so then she put them as their middle names. So Casey 01:04:56.398 --> 01:05:00.997 and Katie are their first names. Then they have the names of The sisters, 01:05:01.030 --> 01:05:06.796 my grandma and her sisters. And so, but it, but it fits them well. They 01:05:06.829 --> 01:05:13.175 have the demeanor of both women. And my, my first one, she's she's named 01:05:13.208 --> 01:05:17.577 after our grandmother. It's so cute when she sleeps. She sleeps just like 01:05:17.610 --> 01:05:21.537 like this and just sleep. And so that's how I remember that's how my 01:05:21.570 --> 01:05:26.695 grandma used to sleep with her arms folded or tell me a bedtime story, or 01:05:26.728 --> 01:05:32.497 she likes to kiss at night. Katie likes to kiss and then I remember um 01:05:32.530 --> 01:05:37.296 that was I think that was one of the biggest thing is having Grandma give 01:05:37.329 --> 01:05:41.425 you the sign of the cross and tell you good night. And that's how I think 01:05:41.458 --> 01:05:45.736 it was special for us to sleep with her. Yeah, yeah, and I think that was 01:05:45.769 --> 01:05:51.865 like the specialist thing that I always remember is her and going to bed 01:05:51.898 --> 01:05:57.836 and having Grandma, having that safety. And knowing she was there and, you 01:05:57.869 --> 01:06:02.896 know, and it's hard. I mean, it's hard too, and I hope that, you know, 01:06:02.929 --> 01:06:08.066 that that's the kind of relationship that my mom builds with my girls. 01:06:08.099 --> 01:06:13.126 Although she's learning, you know, she's learning to do that, but um But 01:06:13.159 --> 01:06:17.916 I think it's just something special, um, especially women, any woman that 01:06:17.949 --> 01:06:23.997 um gives you advice, how to be a parent, how to be a woman, how to be a 01:06:24.030 --> 01:06:29.195 wife, how to be a mother in this community. And um cause we play a lot of 01:06:29.228 --> 01:06:34.997 different roles. And so, um we also have our children are also given indie 01:06:35.030 --> 01:06:40.506 names, so they're not just giving uh uh Uh, you know, Western names 01:06:40.539 --> 01:06:44.307 they're also given. So it's unique. They, they're all our children have a 01:06:44.340 --> 01:06:50.626 uniqueness of um the names they're given and sometimes who they come back 01:06:50.659 --> 01:06:57.106 as. And so, I mean, people talk about reincarnation, they come back, you 01:06:57.139 --> 01:07:02.425 know, we all come back as different who who's lived before. So it's really 01:07:02.458 --> 01:07:07.385 , it's really an amazing thing when you begin to see distinguish between 01:07:07.418 --> 01:07:13.546 your children and so. Yeah, how many names do they have? 01:07:13.579 --> 01:07:18.026 The my girls have two names, so first name and a second name. Now in terms 01:07:18.059 --> 01:07:26.059 of their Indian name. 2 Yeah. My girls have 2. We probably have 2 too, so 01:07:26.648 --> 01:07:32.807 yeah, it were named after a time when we're born. Yeah, depending on 01:07:32.840 --> 01:07:37.316 whoever names you, is that why you mentioned that you have a nighttime 01:07:37.349 --> 01:07:43.276 child and a morning child? Does that it doesn't really, no, this all 01:07:43.309 --> 01:07:48.126 depends on what they're named, but it's just same thing, and 01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:54.217 distinguishment, you know, indistinguishment kind of. Acknowledgement, I 01:07:54.250 --> 01:07:59.706 guess, yeah. Yeah, so was your um second birth different than your first 01:07:59.739 --> 01:08:07.385 birth at all? Mm, a little bit, yeah, that'll be my middle child there. I 01:08:07.418 --> 01:08:15.066 was bigger. She was bigger. Yeah. How big? My first one was 49, so Mariah 01:08:15.099 --> 01:08:19.076 was like 6 songs. 01:08:19.109 --> 01:08:25.415 Yeah, and totally opposites, you know, totally different. She's the 01:08:25.448 --> 01:08:31.857 rebellious one. And then my son was my surprise. Yeah, cause I had a tubal 01:08:31.890 --> 01:08:39.890 pregnancy. And I had lost a son. So maybe after that, within that year, I 01:08:40.859 --> 01:08:47.916 got pregnant again. I was surprised. I had the nurse do a ticket test on, 01:08:47.949 --> 01:08:54.147 are you sure? Yeah, look it. So I was happy, but I didn't know it was a 01:08:54.180 --> 01:09:00.626 son till he was born. Yeah, that seems very special. It is, yeah, we were 01:09:00.659 --> 01:09:04.357 so happy. I know he was. 01:09:04.390 --> 01:09:10.656 Yeah, he was there this time, so he got to see my son born, 01:09:10.689 --> 01:09:15.717 there's no more. How was that? We're all done, right? Yeah, I know, tell 01:09:15.750 --> 01:09:20.595 me about it. So how was, did your son sit any differently in your belly? 01:09:20.628 --> 01:09:24.027 cause sometimes they say boys carry high or low. I can't remember and he 01:09:24.060 --> 01:09:29.335 was just uh more active at night. During the day, I guess he was sleeping 01:09:29.368 --> 01:09:36.055 , but at night. More active and then when we came from the hospital, he 01:09:36.088 --> 01:09:40.217 would like to watch TV at night. He didn't cry or anything, so he would be 01:09:40.250 --> 01:09:44.755 in his little deskinet and he'd be just looking at the TV. 01:09:44.788 --> 01:09:51.384 Yeah, he was still, you know. He didn't change much, but now he's. So were 01:09:51.417 --> 01:09:55.026 you able to have all of them, uh, vaginally in the hospital with no 01:09:55.059 --> 01:09:57.126 medication? 01:09:57.159 --> 01:10:03.055 Uh, yeah, I had them all baning um. I think Kenny had a medication cause 01:10:03.088 --> 01:10:10.237 he was my largest. He was like 77 so, yeah, but otherwise, yeah. I had 01:10:10.270 --> 01:10:15.817 them all. That's incredible. You guys are so strong. 01:10:15.850 --> 01:10:20.826 Going through, I mean, yeah, but we're blessed to have sons, and I think 01:10:20.859 --> 01:10:25.616 that's the uniqueness, um, and my son was just messaging me, Facebook 01:10:25.649 --> 01:10:29.406 messaging me. Where did you guys go? I didn't tell him we were coming 01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:33.796 because he, he's very close to Kenny and or my nephew, and he's gonna say 01:10:33.829 --> 01:10:38.135 , you didn't tell me you didn't, but, but I think it's just, it's amazing 01:10:38.168 --> 01:10:44.916 , you know, having sisters and having boys. And I think, you know, my 01:10:44.949 --> 01:10:51.336 sister will probably agree is there. They're surrounded by all of us and 01:10:51.369 --> 01:10:57.956 there's lots of hope for the both of us. And who they're gonna be common. 01:10:57.989 --> 01:11:01.487 And like I said, I hope that you know that they'll be they'll be good 01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:08.885 fathers one day. And that um that we've given them enough support. And you 01:11:08.918 --> 01:11:13.527 know that we love them. We love them there isn't, I mean, you know, you 01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:19.175 think about all the kids and Kenny and Donnie are unique. Donrell and 01:11:19.208 --> 01:11:23.277 they're unique. Kenny's really close with his cousin. That's I think only 01:11:23.310 --> 01:11:29.006 because the son I lost would have been her son's age. So Kenny's a year 01:11:29.039 --> 01:11:35.487 behind, but he's really close with his cousin. I think her son took my, my 01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:40.726 son took her sons straight. You know, and he's here, he's here through 01:11:40.759 --> 01:11:46.496 dumb trail. And so, and you tell my brother, he's as much as your son, 01:11:46.529 --> 01:11:53.027 you're responsible too for him to teach him things and. And it it was hard 01:11:53.060 --> 01:11:59.326 , you know, to have to. Go through it's it's it's something I think that. 01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:05.576 Uh, we don't talk about the trauma sometimes because it's hurtful. But in 01:12:05.609 --> 01:12:11.456 , in time, we let go, but we know our children continue to live through 01:12:11.489 --> 01:12:19.076 our other children. And so, um. And and talking about it helps and knowing 01:12:19.109 --> 01:12:27.109 that um. That, you know. That it is, they are special. And um and yeah, we 01:12:28.289 --> 01:12:34.845 , we can't change things, but. You have to, you know. You know, we live, 01:12:34.878 --> 01:12:39.836 we live on. And so what that that I think that's just the uniqueness of 01:12:39.869 --> 01:12:46.397 the boys that they're they're special in their own way. And so, but But 01:12:46.430 --> 01:12:52.277 they're surrounded by sisters that support will support them later on, and 01:12:52.310 --> 01:12:57.076 that's great. I mean, I'm I'm so happy, you know, for, for both of them, 01:12:57.109 --> 01:13:03.217 that they have sisters that are gonna be there for them. So, but um with 01:13:03.250 --> 01:13:07.067 the tubal pregnancy, did you have to have surgery? Yeah, I didn't know 01:13:07.100 --> 01:13:13.305 that's what it was until, yeah, I just had like excruciating pain in here 01:13:13.338 --> 01:13:19.317 and. I, you know, I didn't know, and so they took me to the hospital. They 01:13:19.350 --> 01:13:22.996 , they didn't tell me anything right away either until they did, well, 01:13:23.029 --> 01:13:27.317 let's do an ultrasound. They asked me if I was I said, not that I know of 01:13:27.350 --> 01:13:33.467 , and that's what they found. So All I remember was, yeah, going into 01:13:33.500 --> 01:13:39.906 surgery and then that was that, yeah. Did you feel a loss or was it, did 01:13:39.939 --> 01:13:43.897 you not, because you didn't have time to like really process that you had 01:13:43.930 --> 01:13:48.326 been carrying. A child was, what was that emotional experience after that 01:13:48.359 --> 01:13:55.376 ? I think it was only till I found out that it was then, yeah, of course, 01:13:55.409 --> 01:14:03.409 I felt a loss, but otherwise I didn't know that's what it was. Yeah. 01:14:04.548 --> 01:14:09.317 Yeah, that's that's tough, yeah, absolutely. 01:14:09.350 --> 01:14:15.416 Yeah, so, but they told me I was, I was a boy, yeah, and then you had your 01:14:15.449 --> 01:14:19.937 , you were pregnant with your son at that time. She already you didn't 01:14:19.970 --> 01:14:26.798 have any yet done yet. This was maybe, was that like a couple weeks before. 01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:28.819 Don't don't because when when I was having done trial, you couldn't go 01:14:30.659 --> 01:14:36.576 with me. Yeah, I was home. Yeah, she was home at the time. And so when I 01:14:36.609 --> 01:14:41.135 was having done trail. I remember she couldn't go cuz she was still 01:14:41.168 --> 01:14:49.168 resting. And then um I know they went in the ambulance. And so, but it was 01:14:49.270 --> 01:14:55.737 , it was something. You know, it was hard and and today we still. Like I 01:14:55.770 --> 01:15:03.616 said, he, he lives through on trail. And so and you know and. You, you 01:15:03.649 --> 01:15:09.576 think you know what he could have been like and he's here. It's hard, and 01:15:09.609 --> 01:15:16.135 I know my sister, you know, thinks, but I tend to believe that he does 01:15:16.168 --> 01:15:22.777 live through my son. And just like he's my son, he's her son. And so 01:15:22.810 --> 01:15:26.937 that's why he's he's really close with Kenny and I don't I wouldn't have 01:15:26.970 --> 01:15:32.456 it any other way that they both be close and I'm glad they are and they're 01:15:32.489 --> 01:15:37.076 still boys, they're still kids. They play together. They come up, you know 01:15:37.109 --> 01:15:40.976 , and they hang out and like I said, I didn't tell my son I was coming up 01:15:41.009 --> 01:15:45.296 here. He was still get mad at her because he hasn't come to see Kenny in a 01:15:45.329 --> 01:15:52.656 while because they've been at school, but Well, what most 01:15:52.689 --> 01:15:56.067 all summer when you have a beautiful family, and I've never heard children 01:15:56.100 --> 01:16:00.467 play together so nicely. It's so lovely. It's incredible to hear that 01:16:00.500 --> 01:16:06.067 giggling and all of that they're like well it's the same that's 01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:12.036 that's their brother too, so. Yeah it's nice, you know, I mean, no matter 01:16:12.069 --> 01:16:17.555 how how how I guess messy your house is, I mean you wouldn't have it any 01:16:17.588 --> 01:16:23.116 other way because I mean it's the uniqueness of the kids and it's just 01:16:23.149 --> 01:16:26.956 funny. I just heard that conversation. I was in Palm Springs last week and 01:16:26.989 --> 01:16:31.336 this man and this young girl were sitting in front of me. And so she was 01:16:31.369 --> 01:16:35.437 talking about her 3 year old, and this man was a little bit older. And 01:16:35.470 --> 01:16:39.746 then he also you know they were talking and I guess I was listening and 01:16:39.779 --> 01:16:44.746 and then she, she told him, well I have a 3 year old and uh he's he's a 01:16:44.779 --> 01:16:48.626 brat or she's a brat, I think she said, huh? He goes, she's a brat, you 01:16:48.659 --> 01:16:53.107 know, and then he, he kinda, he kinda, oh, he goes, he kind of paused for 01:16:53.140 --> 01:16:58.666 a moment. Well, if she wouldn't be a, if she wasn't a brat, you wouldn't 01:16:58.699 --> 01:17:03.345 be happy, right? And so I was like, oh, exactly. I sat there and I said, 01:17:03.378 --> 01:17:09.147 of course, these my girls they drive me nuts. I mean, you know, some days 01:17:09.180 --> 01:17:11.866 and they're like, I wonder what they're doing at school. I hope they're 01:17:11.899 --> 01:17:16.706 behaving and and so and I and I understood what he said and I said, you're 01:17:16.739 --> 01:17:22.826 exactly right. If it wasn't for this chaos, we some tend to take on every 01:17:22.859 --> 01:17:28.696 day as a parent or whatever role you play every day. You wouldn't learn to 01:17:28.729 --> 01:17:33.116 appreciate just living. And you wouldn't learn to appreciate your children 01:17:33.149 --> 01:17:37.845 and one day they leave, leave and you're like, you know, what are you 01:17:37.878 --> 01:17:41.976 doing? And my biggest thing with my oldest, did you eat today? I feel like 01:17:42.009 --> 01:17:47.296 it. And so she's home. She came, she came home yesterday and she was just 01:17:47.329 --> 01:17:51.277 we went grocery shopping, I'm so looking forward to eating at home, she 01:17:51.310 --> 01:17:55.555 said, she lives with my sister. Well, what do you guys do? You don't cook. 01:17:55.588 --> 01:18:00.286 And when I go to visit them, I opened their fridge. Where's your food? 01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:05.416 And they're like, what food? You guys don't cook, I said. And so I'm glad 01:18:05.449 --> 01:18:10.456 she's home. I mean, I just want to always make sure as old as she gets, 01:18:10.489 --> 01:18:15.595 and I worry about my niece and she, she's living in town and I'm like, 01:18:15.628 --> 01:18:21.147 what she ate today, and it's like your oldest, she just moved out a month 01:18:21.180 --> 01:18:27.376 ago. Yeah. She comes home one evening and have something to tell you and 01:18:27.409 --> 01:18:30.826 we're like. We're all sitting around because we're all used to each other. 01:18:30.859 --> 01:18:34.706 We watch TV together, eat together and then she comes out and she was 01:18:34.739 --> 01:18:37.746 like something, I said, I hope it's, you know, in my mind it's something 01:18:37.779 --> 01:18:43.076 good, you know. And she goes, I'm moving now. I said, oh, OK. I thought it 01:18:43.109 --> 01:18:46.717 was something, you know. 01:18:46.750 --> 01:18:51.746 So I think she's waiting for you to be a grandma. At first I was like I 01:18:51.779 --> 01:18:56.446 kinda. So yeah, well, I feel sad, you know, cuz she's not here, cuz we're 01:18:56.479 --> 01:19:02.296 all, I'm used to, you know, having all my kids here. I wasn't that lucky 01:19:02.329 --> 01:19:07.467 to grow up with a mom and dad, so that's why I tell my kids, you're lucky 01:19:07.500 --> 01:19:10.826 you have both of us here because we didn't have that. We had our 01:19:10.859 --> 01:19:17.996 grandparents. Which was just as good, but you know. They're very lucky, so 01:19:18.029 --> 01:19:22.996 it's a different sort of bond. I was crying. I was at the dentist and I 01:19:23.029 --> 01:19:27.996 saw her. I saw her at Walmart when she that day she moved and when I saw 01:19:28.029 --> 01:19:31.156 them and I saw them at Walmart and then I saw my niece, and then she goes 01:19:31.189 --> 01:19:36.317 , I, I live down the street, where down the street, down here. And then it 01:19:36.350 --> 01:19:40.376 I didn't take enough time to process it because we were walking out. I saw 01:19:40.409 --> 01:19:43.496 a couple of days later at the dentist because my niece has, my daughter 01:19:43.529 --> 01:19:47.376 has braces and she has braces, so she was there and I told my daughter, I 01:19:47.409 --> 01:19:51.015 think Kiana's here and she goes, where are her cars parked out there? So 01:19:51.048 --> 01:19:54.626 she was inside so I was sitting there. Maybe she'll come out when um 01:19:54.659 --> 01:19:59.196 Lindsay goes in and she goes, and I was sitting there. And I told her, you 01:19:59.229 --> 01:20:02.956 know, and she came out, Come here, sit down. Let me, let's talk for a 01:20:02.989 --> 01:20:07.116 moment. I told her, you didn't give me enough time to process you moving 01:20:07.149 --> 01:20:11.237 out. I said she's like, What? She goes, I've been all week. I was just, 01:20:11.270 --> 01:20:14.135 Kiana moved out. 01:20:14.168 --> 01:20:18.675 And then I forget about Kiana moved out. Kiana moved out and it's like, it 01:20:18.708 --> 01:20:25.076 was so hard for me because my, my daughter went off to college and leaving 01:20:25.109 --> 01:20:29.126 her at the dorm was awkward. And now she lives with my sisters that I 01:20:29.159 --> 01:20:33.187 still think that's hard because I worry if they're eating or they're OK, 01:20:33.220 --> 01:20:37.765 you know, that they're that they're they're meeting each other's needs and 01:20:37.798 --> 01:20:42.256 so I so I told Kanna to come sit with me as I was crying at the dentist's 01:20:42.289 --> 01:20:47.656 office all like, Well, don't forget about us. Come on. And, and I said, 01:20:47.689 --> 01:20:52.456 you're like, you know, I told her, make sure, you know, like do you know, 01:20:52.489 --> 01:20:57.576 be responsible and you know we are lucky and your mom and dad trust you, 01:20:57.609 --> 01:21:02.666 don't make the wrong decisions, you know, or. And so I said, come home, 01:21:02.699 --> 01:21:07.696 don't forget about us. We're we're always be here and it was hard on me 01:21:07.729 --> 01:21:12.305 and I just like it's so funny like some old lady I felt I feel like an old 01:21:12.338 --> 01:21:16.866 lady. I thought she thought, why? She goes, because it's hard to let you 01:21:16.899 --> 01:21:20.796 guys go. I mean, I know you're responsible and I know I think you've 01:21:20.829 --> 01:21:27.027 proved enough, you know, to to be where you're at, but um and then I said 01:21:27.060 --> 01:21:33.067 , but it's so it's so. Uh, I don't know, just amazing to me, but then I 01:21:33.100 --> 01:21:37.305 was like, why you have to go? He's like, you know, I know. I was just like 01:21:37.338 --> 01:21:41.147 I was crying at the dentist's office, and it's probably a moment she'll 01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:45.265 she'll remember you were, you were crying at the dentist's office and then 01:21:45.298 --> 01:21:49.147 my daughter came up and um she Kiana had already left and she goes, What's 01:21:49.180 --> 01:21:53.717 wrong with you, I'm sitting here crying because Kiana moved out. Well, 01:21:53.750 --> 01:21:58.196 there's mixed emotions, right? You're happy, and I had, I had those like, 01:21:58.229 --> 01:22:00.996 you know, I'm so proud of you, I'm so proud of you, but I'm still like, I 01:22:01.029 --> 01:22:05.555 don't know why you had to go into. And so, but my daughter was like, Mom, 01:22:05.588 --> 01:22:11.156 you're crazy. And she's like, well, I mean. I just don't, I see how you 01:22:11.189 --> 01:22:15.555 all are growing up, but I also, you know, I just, it's just the world is 01:22:15.588 --> 01:22:19.876 so different today. And that's what scares me the most is the world and 01:22:19.909 --> 01:22:24.576 how it's cruel sometimes and all these things happening. But no, there's 01:22:24.609 --> 01:22:28.666 just hope we're just always gonna hope for the best every day and that you 01:22:28.699 --> 01:22:33.116 guys are safe because like my, my oldest oldest, she'll ride the bus 01:22:33.149 --> 01:22:37.015 across town to school. And I'll call her. If I'm in town, do you want me 01:22:37.048 --> 01:22:40.946 to pick you up? She goes, um, yeah. What time do you get out? So I always 01:22:40.979 --> 01:22:45.467 had to drive her home. But I always tell her to make sure you're OK, you 01:22:45.500 --> 01:22:49.506 know, I have, like I said, 3 siblings that live in town, but just so that 01:22:49.539 --> 01:22:54.226 , you know, she's she's safe. And that's that's probably the biggest thing 01:22:54.259 --> 01:22:59.786 that I'm more scared of is this one, her safety. Um, but making sure that 01:22:59.819 --> 01:23:03.866 , you know, she's OK. Like I said, eating, that's the biggest thing, I 01:23:03.899 --> 01:23:08.196 guess. But taking care of herself, I guess, and you both are such loving 01:23:08.229 --> 01:23:14.777 parents. It's really been wonderful talking with you. I hope so. 01:23:14.810 --> 01:23:20.496 Um, last week, uh, the girl said, I hope you liked your vacation when I 01:23:20.529 --> 01:23:25.817 came back I went to a concert. What vacation? I think Casey said vacation. 01:23:25.850 --> 01:23:28.095 They're like. 01:23:28.128 --> 01:23:34.265 00, you mean, and, and, and even leaving them. The first time I went on a 01:23:34.298 --> 01:23:39.586 3 day conference, 3 hours from here. It was hard. That was the first time 01:23:39.619 --> 01:23:43.746 I had to leave the twins. I was just, I, I couldn't, I didn't know what to 01:23:43.779 --> 01:23:47.706 do the first day, and I sat there and I'm like, OK, I'll get over it, 01:23:47.739 --> 01:23:54.015 they'll be all right. 3 days. And it was 3 hours away from here. So this 01:23:54.048 --> 01:23:58.456 time around, I went for almost a week and I, and I told them, you know, um 01:23:58.489 --> 01:24:04.326 that I'm gonna go, you know, and, and um you guys will be OK. Um. I didn't 01:24:04.359 --> 01:24:08.666 tell them right away. I told them like 2 days before because I didn't want 01:24:08.699 --> 01:24:14.095 them to over dramatize because Casey was, Casey, I think already knew, 01:24:14.128 --> 01:24:18.126 cause then I told him, well, when are you coming back? She goes like, are 01:24:18.159 --> 01:24:21.805 you going to work? Yes, I'm going to work, but are you coming back? She's 01:24:21.838 --> 01:24:28.206 like, I'll be back, but a couple days. And so, um, but it's hard. It was 01:24:28.239 --> 01:24:32.567 hard. I mean, for me to leave that, knowing that I knew I had people that 01:24:32.600 --> 01:24:38.786 will. Um, that will take care of them, but it's just a difference when mom 01:24:38.819 --> 01:24:45.876 takes care of them, because mom keeps everything in line. And when other 01:24:45.909 --> 01:24:49.666 people feel in, they're like, Mom, don't do it that way. You know, mom 01:24:49.699 --> 01:24:54.746 doesn't mom won't let me, you know, wear that, you know, and so, so that's 01:24:54.779 --> 01:24:58.866 what I probably worried about the most was, you know, was how, how they 01:24:58.899 --> 01:25:03.095 were going to be, how everybody else was going to situate themselves so. 01:25:03.128 --> 01:25:11.128 Yeah, 01:25:15.798 --> 01:25:18.009 we better get out of your hair. You guys have to wrap up with Katie carries her milk with her baby. Yes, she does. I'm gonna she's OK.