WEBVTT 00:00:07.309 --> 00:00:09.309 My name is Betty DeGraw. I, uh, came to ASU in 1986 and, uh, started the 00:00:14.148 --> 00:00:18.956 Downtown Center in downtown Phoenix, and I also served as associate Dean 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:24.695 and Dean of the College of Extended Education. I retired in 2005 and now 00:00:24.728 --> 00:00:30.296 I'm a Dean emerita and professor emerita. Um, I'm Dar Eschbach. And I came 00:00:30.329 --> 00:00:35.616 to, uh, Arizona State University in January of 1976 and probably recorded 00:00:35.649 --> 00:00:43.176 as retiring in about 2002. My full name is Barbara Jean Bradford Boling 00:00:43.209 --> 00:00:49.000 Powell. Ashbach. I actually retired two times. The first time was June 00:00:49.033 --> 00:00:55.561 30th of 2006. That was from Information Technology. Then the second time I 00:00:55.594 --> 00:01:00.481 retired was June 30th of 2008, 00:01:00.514 --> 00:01:07.891 and that was uh in economic affairs. I was a program coordinator. Well my 00:01:07.924 --> 00:01:12.436 name is Richard Jacob. I'm known as Dick Jacob in most circles. Uh, 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:18.415 including campus at ASU. I came to ASU as a tenure track assistant 00:01:18.448 --> 00:01:21.837 professor in 1963. 00:01:21.870 --> 00:01:27.897 And I retired as a professor in 2001. 00:01:27.930 --> 00:01:35.426 My name is Val Peterson. I, uh, I was director of facilities management at. 00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:42.546 Uh, ASU and I arrived early in the year 1988 and left in the year 2000. 00:01:42.579 --> 00:01:48.376 My name again is Marigold Blinnton. And I was director of educational 00:01:48.409 --> 00:01:53.596 services in the College of Education was director of education services 00:01:53.629 --> 00:01:58.486 and mathematics, and then became uh director of American Indian programs 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:04.635 at ASU East. I am Conrad Store and. Worked here at Arizona State 00:02:04.668 --> 00:02:09.616 University for a little more than 24 years actually this week on Thursday 00:02:09.649 --> 00:02:16.196 , it'll be 3 years since I tendered my retirement papers. So happy to be 00:02:16.229 --> 00:02:21.237 back on campus and talking about my time at the university. uh, Gary Crabi 00:02:21.270 --> 00:02:26.555 , um, I came to ASU as an assistant professor and worked my way through 00:02:26.588 --> 00:02:32.186 the academic ranks and then finished, uh, as senior. Vice president of the 00:02:32.219 --> 00:02:40.219 university, I'm Jerry Snyder. And I was at the university for 37 years, uh 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:48.596 , the entire time was, uh. Uh, in the, uh, comptroller's office, which was 00:02:48.629 --> 00:02:54.916 , uh, renamed to uh Financial Services about 10 years ago. Legal name is 00:02:54.949 --> 00:03:00.316 Jacob Fuchs, but I never cared for it and so most of the time I've gone 00:03:00.349 --> 00:03:06.436 under the name Jack, and that's the one I prefer. Uh, I'm currently 00:03:06.469 --> 00:03:14.469 professor emeritus of chemistry. After having been at ASU for. Now 61 00:03:15.460 --> 00:03:23.460 years, 55 of which they paid me the the last part, I'm on my own. 00:03:24.469 --> 00:03:29.186 Uh, my name is David George Schotsley, known as Dave Schotsley. My first 00:03:29.219 --> 00:03:35.835 position at ASU was as a student in 1961. I was in the Masters of 00:03:35.868 --> 00:03:42.525 Engineering program. And I remained a student until the end of 1963. 00:03:42.558 --> 00:03:48.005 And went away and continued my career in the Air Force. And then came back 00:03:48.038 --> 00:03:53.487 in 1979 as an associate professor later became a full professor and at the 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.805 end I was the associate dean for the College of Architecture and 00:03:57.838 --> 00:04:05.106 Environmental Design. My name is Daniel Jankowski, uh. I've, uh, was at 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:10.156 ASU for 40 years and during that time I was a faculty member having worked 00:04:10.189 --> 00:04:14.316 my way up through the ranks. I was also a vice chairman of mechanical 00:04:14.349 --> 00:04:20.786 engineering. Uh, associate dean for academic affairs and interim dean, and 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:26.705 I closed my career at ASU with a uh service as the uh coordinator for the 00:04:26.738 --> 00:04:29.305 2002, 00:04:29.338 --> 00:04:34.705 uh, accreditation effort. Uh, my name is Anne Schneider, and I was dean of 00:04:34.738 --> 00:04:39.387 the College of Public Programs at ASU, and after that I was a professor in 00:04:39.420 --> 00:04:43.217 the School of Justice studies and then in the uh department of Political 00:04:43.250 --> 00:04:50.096 Science. 00:04:50.129 --> 00:04:57.015 Have you been told about the, the takeover of the ROTC building? OK. 00:04:57.048 --> 00:05:04.015 A handful of students, no more than 10, uh, taking over the ROTC building 00:05:04.048 --> 00:05:08.495 is, is the wrong way to describe it, but that's how it was described. They 00:05:08.528 --> 00:05:15.036 just sat in. They just decided to sit there and they would not move. Uh, 00:05:15.069 --> 00:05:23.069 this, well. I don't know. I, I can get you the date early in late 60s and 00:05:25.809 --> 00:05:32.015 uh protesting ROTC. They wanted ROTC off campus. It was pre Ken state, uh 00:05:32.048 --> 00:05:38.377 but it was an anti ROTC demonstration and it was the old Maine then was 00:05:38.410 --> 00:05:45.156 the home for ROTC, so that's where they had, uh, settled in. Now this is 00:05:45.189 --> 00:05:51.437 the kind of thing that uh wasn't public. There had been uh campus unrest 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:56.296 on and off because there was all over the country, and one of the methods 00:05:56.329 --> 00:06:01.676 that the administration used to keep it calm was they irrigate it every 00:06:01.709 --> 00:06:09.075 weekend. So that all the lawns were that deep in water and you couldn't 00:06:09.108 --> 00:06:13.036 have demonstrations on the lawns. I mean, there, you, it wouldn't be 00:06:13.069 --> 00:06:19.217 possible is what I'm saying. Uh, John Duffy was head of campus police, uh 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:25.937 , before Gay Schuman took over. George Hamm, uh, Dean, Dean of men, and 00:06:25.970 --> 00:06:32.055 John Ryan, academic vice president. And these kids are sitting in the ROTC 00:06:32.088 --> 00:06:39.236 building. I didn't know any of them, but I had, uh, good rapport with 00:06:39.269 --> 00:06:45.947 students and students knew that. Uh, what nobody except a very small 00:06:45.980 --> 00:06:49.745 handful of people knew was that the campus was surrounded by National 00:06:49.778 --> 00:06:54.265 Guard. The government had the governor had called in the guard. The guard 00:06:54.298 --> 00:07:00.776 was armed and they were prepared to shoot if necessary. Uh, they were 00:07:00.809 --> 00:07:08.455 gonna get those kids out of that building that day or else. Uh, That's 00:07:08.488 --> 00:07:13.586 what I wanted to tell you. I don't think it's ever been made public before. 00:07:13.619 --> 00:07:17.776 Uh, the rest of it is, is kind of irrelevant in a sense. I went in there 00:07:17.809 --> 00:07:21.976 . I sat, I remember sitting on the floor with the students. I don't 00:07:22.009 --> 00:07:26.697 remember what I told them except that I promised them that there would be 00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:32.776 no repercussions afterwards if they just got out, that they wouldn't be. I 00:07:32.809 --> 00:07:37.015 had no right to say that because nobody gave me permission to say it. I 00:07:37.048 --> 00:07:44.765 just felt so. I was really nervous about the guns. Anyway, I talked him 00:07:44.798 --> 00:07:50.187 out of the building. And I think it's so ironic. 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:54.265 That I've only made the front page of the republic once and that was in 00:07:54.298 --> 00:07:59.296 because of a student demonstration but it was dangerous it was dangerous 00:07:59.329 --> 00:08:05.067 we had the whole campus surrounded by armed National Guard. Never hit the 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:08.305 papers. 00:08:08.338 --> 00:08:13.467 We were the bulldogs in those days. I, I was a cheerleader in those days 00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:21.096 and uh. One of the things I want future generations of of uh. Uh, sun 00:08:21.129 --> 00:08:28.495 devils to know that they come from a long proud line of bulldogs and, uh, 00:08:28.528 --> 00:08:33.375 the, the bulldogs in those days were, as I said, we were kind of the 00:08:33.408 --> 00:08:39.736 country cousins always struggling, uh, for status and uh. So we came from 00:08:39.769 --> 00:08:44.696 , uh, a long line of bulldogs that really grew up on the wrong side of the 00:08:44.729 --> 00:08:50.135 tracks and uh we as mean as junkyard dogs, you know, when provoked and 00:08:50.168 --> 00:08:53.616 there was more than enough provocation from the U of A. They were 00:08:53.649 --> 00:08:59.936 constantly putting us down and uh our, our chant was 12 beat the you. 00:08:59.969 --> 00:09:05.765 Their derisive response was 123 beat tempe. They did everything in their 00:09:05.798 --> 00:09:11.696 power to keep us localized. They were the university. Very jealous about 00:09:11.729 --> 00:09:16.057 the fact that the capital which they wanted when when the 13th territory 00:09:16.090 --> 00:09:21.816 Legislature created both ASU and the UFA, what the people in Tucson really 00:09:21.849 --> 00:09:27.816 wanted from that legislature was for the capital to be returned to Tucson. 00:09:27.849 --> 00:09:31.917 That was a proud old community, you know, a century before Phoenix was 00:09:31.950 --> 00:09:36.255 anything, and, uh, they didn't get what they wanted, but at least they got 00:09:36.288 --> 00:09:41.515 the university. The the capital eventually came to to Phoenix, so there 00:09:41.548 --> 00:09:46.956 was a lot of jealousy over that, but they never wanted to share this idea 00:09:46.989 --> 00:09:52.297 of university status with anyone else. So, so it was a long hard struggle 00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:59.787 when we finally indeed did beat them in in 1950 very convincingly. In 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:06.145 football, to our dismay, the Arizona Republic had this headline. Can I 00:10:06.178 --> 00:10:09.667 show this to you? 00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:15.616 There it is. All right, yeah, so the old bulldog yell, I'll demonstrate 00:10:15.649 --> 00:10:20.625 that for you later, but it was a very visceral kind of a yell. OK, here's 00:10:20.658 --> 00:10:26.505 the old bulldog yell growl it out, girl. 00:10:26.538 --> 00:10:31.467 Ah. 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:33.787 G. 00:10:33.820 --> 00:10:36.086 Bulldogs. 00:10:36.119 --> 00:10:39.976 The yell that followed was called with an A, and it was with an A with an 00:10:40.009 --> 00:10:46.096 A with an A R I Z O N A and it ended Arizona, Arizona, Arizona state. That 00:10:46.129 --> 00:10:50.336 is we, we were constantly reminding people, hey, we serve Arizona, we're 00:10:50.369 --> 00:10:54.326 not just a little small town school. 00:10:54.359 --> 00:10:57.717 Can tell us a little bit about your early life and some of the other 00:10:57.750 --> 00:11:02.746 things that happened uh in your development prior to coming to the issue 00:11:02.779 --> 00:11:07.797 then we'll get back to the issue. Very good. Um, it's not difficult for me 00:11:07.830 --> 00:11:13.265 to describe my background because in a sense I've had a very, very broad 00:11:13.298 --> 00:11:19.836 and very interesting background of life. Uh, when I graduated from, uh, 00:11:19.869 --> 00:11:25.875 junior high school, I had begun at that time at age 18, uh, to do some 00:11:25.908 --> 00:11:31.515 acrobatics and gymnastics even to the degree that later in my life, in 00:11:31.548 --> 00:11:35.037 addition to my regular work as a university administrator, that's what I 00:11:35.070 --> 00:11:39.836 was Elmer, a university administrator from 1946 00:11:39.869 --> 00:11:43.696 until I retired then in 1988. 00:11:43.729 --> 00:11:49.057 Uh, so I was had a side issue in life in addition to being, uh I can say 00:11:49.090 --> 00:11:52.657 this with a little bit of, uh, humility, a pretty good student. I was 00:11:52.690 --> 00:11:57.657 academically always, uh, sort of at the top of the class and so on in the 00:11:57.690 --> 00:12:02.635 schools I went to junior high school, high school. And then college. 00:12:02.668 --> 00:12:08.917 Having said that, part of my life is made up not only of family and of 00:12:08.950 --> 00:12:15.927 Arizona State University for 25 years. But also of being involved very, 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:21.157 very directly and seriously in gymnastics and acrobatics as a side issue 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:26.186 of my life. It's one of the reasons that at my age I'm still in relatively 00:12:26.219 --> 00:12:30.856 good shape except for this broken foot that which you can't get on here 00:12:30.889 --> 00:12:36.385 but I do have a broken foot today. In any event, if that's enough to, I 00:12:36.418 --> 00:12:39.875 was gonna have you since you're talking. your acrobatic skills. I was 00:12:39.908 --> 00:12:44.275 gonna have you describe this photograph that uh that we have, yes, with 00:12:44.308 --> 00:12:48.677 you and your friend. Yeah, this this photograph was taken in Hawaii while 00:12:48.710 --> 00:12:55.037 I was in the Marine Corps active duty in 1944, and the man on the bottom 00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:59.797 is Al Matter. He was a very, very famous acrobat, professional acrobat, 00:12:59.830 --> 00:13:04.816 and I met him on the beach there, and we worked out and this is uh Diamond 00:13:04.849 --> 00:13:11.177 Head. And this is uh Wai Waikiki Beach in Hawaii and you're the one on top 00:13:11.210 --> 00:13:16.875 standing on the top on one arm. This fellow and I, Al Mater and I during 00:13:16.908 --> 00:13:23.236 World War II, we did a hand balancing act which you saw a copy of, uh, in 00:13:23.269 --> 00:13:27.076 the evenings while he was in the Navy and I was in the Marine Corps, Pearl 00:13:27.109 --> 00:13:33.287 Harbor, by the way, location. And we were allowed to, uh, by our bosses to 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:37.765 take time off in the evening as long as we got back at 0600 hours in the 00:13:37.798 --> 00:13:42.525 morning to begin work and we would be we would actually, we were actually 00:13:42.558 --> 00:13:46.446 paid for each of those performances and we would traveled all over those 00:13:46.479 --> 00:13:50.186 islands, the Hawaiian islands, which at that time, by the way, was not a 00:13:50.219 --> 00:13:55.726 state this was the territory of Hawaii at that time. Now having said that 00:13:55.759 --> 00:14:00.456 , that's, that's what that picture is about. 00:14:00.489 --> 00:14:04.515 The chemistry building and the Life Sciences building were both built at 00:14:04.548 --> 00:14:10.895 the same time, somewhere around 1958. 00:14:10.928 --> 00:14:14.496 Well, I don't mean the whole building because our building has wings A, B 00:14:14.529 --> 00:14:22.529 , C, D, E, F, and G, but the wings B and C were built around 1956, 00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:27.287 1958, something like that. 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:33.576 That's exactly the same time that the Sun Devil Stadium was built. The 00:14:33.609 --> 00:14:40.846 state ran out of money. And in order to finish Sun Devil Stadium, 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:48.879 BMC wings were built 1/3 shorter than the original plans. 00:14:49.570 --> 00:14:55.167 And so you have this building, they didn't put up a wall, they put up a 00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:00.145 temporary. Because the next year they knew they were going to get the 00:15:00.178 --> 00:15:05.346 money. And that would, they would be able to finish that building. And so 00:15:05.379 --> 00:15:10.616 if you go down B and C wing halls, there's a place where there's a double 00:15:10.649 --> 00:15:15.616 door, which was the original end, and then they put on the other third of 00:15:15.649 --> 00:15:19.015 that building. 00:15:19.048 --> 00:15:23.275 But I've been writing children's books for about 20 years. What I really 00:15:23.308 --> 00:15:31.196 did best or like the most was communicating science to kids. 1991, wrote a 00:15:31.229 --> 00:15:35.307 book about swarro cactus. It's a little science book for fourth graders. I 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:40.726 was hooked. A lot of people will recognize this book. Don't call me Pig. I 00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:45.566 have a Lena story. It's probably my most famous book gets sold. More than 00:15:45.599 --> 00:15:51.866 3/4 of a million copies now since 1999 and it's a little story. It's about 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:56.677 javelinas which are not pigs and of course no one knows that they think 00:15:56.710 --> 00:16:01.927 they're wild pigs. They're here in the desert and I was working with this 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:06.086 company. It was a toy company and he was making stuffed animals and he was 00:16:06.119 --> 00:16:10.606 selling tens of thousands of his Javelina toys. He wanted to do a Javelina 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:15.375 book even though he'd never been a publisher before. See, and I had worked 00:16:15.408 --> 00:16:18.936 for him on the side doing some other little projects. He said, Conrad, 00:16:18.969 --> 00:16:22.907 could you write a book about Javelinas? I said sure I can do that. I had 00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:26.586 written books about scorpions and tarantulas, little science books for 00:16:26.619 --> 00:16:31.696 libraries, so that's what I thought I was gonna do. But as I started this 00:16:31.729 --> 00:16:35.816 project, I realized this is gonna be for kids and was doing my my research 00:16:35.849 --> 00:16:38.525 about what hevelinas are and everybody thinks they're pigs and of course 00:16:38.558 --> 00:16:42.936 they're not so I'm thinking, well, don't call them pigs. Uh, I had my 00:16:42.969 --> 00:16:46.775 title. It was in my head. I kind of chuckled, don't call me pig, and I 00:16:46.808 --> 00:16:51.816 thought about kids playing on the playground, calling each other names. We 00:16:51.849 --> 00:16:54.417 didn't like somebody to call you a name. We wouldn't want someone to call 00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:58.057 you a pig. Here's this animal in the desert and everybody's calling it a 00:16:58.090 --> 00:17:02.496 pig. It's not a pig. Don't call me pig and so I started playing around 00:17:02.529 --> 00:17:07.706 with rhyme. And then I couldn't stop. It was in my head. I couldn't stop 00:17:07.739 --> 00:17:12.946 until I was done, and we found illustrators John Ran and Beth Neely were 00:17:12.979 --> 00:17:17.865 from Prescott. They were adjunct professors at NAU of art. They had never 00:17:17.898 --> 00:17:21.544 illustrated a book. The publisher was a toy company who had never 00:17:21.577 --> 00:17:26.357 published a book. I'd never done a picture book. We all came together. It 00:17:26.390 --> 00:17:30.647 was meant to be. It wins Arizona Children's Book of the Year. It comes 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:34.256 wins the silver medal in the Benjamin Franklin Awards is the best 00:17:34.289 --> 00:17:39.387 children's picture book in America. And we're off and running, uh, later 00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:42.226 on in 2006, 00:17:42.259 --> 00:17:47.996 this was 1999, in 2006, Janet Napolitano was governor of Arizona. And each 00:17:48.029 --> 00:17:52.597 year during her terms as governor she would select a book. She had a 00:17:52.630 --> 00:17:57.156 literacy program and it was underwritten by Phelps Dodge Corporation and 00:17:57.189 --> 00:18:03.117 Southwest Gas. She would select a book. Every first grader in Arizona 00:18:03.150 --> 00:18:07.676 would receive a copy of that book from the governor in 2006 she picked 00:18:07.709 --> 00:18:12.476 this book. So 93001st 00:18:12.509 --> 00:18:16.075 graders got a special edition copy of this book from the governor and it 00:18:16.108 --> 00:18:21.065 was a very good day for me, yeah. 00:18:21.098 --> 00:18:27.506 When I received the offer from ASU, it was a Western Union Telegram with 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:30.976 two incomplete sentences. I mean, written the way telegrams are written. 00:18:31.009 --> 00:18:35.805 Uh, the first, the first partial sentence was. Offer position assistant 00:18:35.838 --> 00:18:41.476 professor some salary. And this whatever. I mean, it was just very cryptic 00:18:41.509 --> 00:18:49.509 and the next one said. Respond via cable to and that was it and I always 00:18:49.848 --> 00:18:53.815 laugh about that because over the years the offer letters got to be 3 00:18:53.848 --> 00:18:57.776 pages of legalese and you had to sign it 4 ways and have it notarized and 00:18:57.809 --> 00:19:04.156 so on anyway it was uh it was it was funny to think back. That my offer 00:19:04.189 --> 00:19:09.996 came on a on a two line Western Union Telegram. 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:15.916 We had a lot of close calls, uh, bomb threats, uh. Usually during finals 00:19:15.949 --> 00:19:20.387 week and usually came from the College of Business. My, uh, my personal 00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:24.545 experience with one of our illustrious governors, um, we had a bomb threat 00:19:24.578 --> 00:19:29.075 during a board of Regent's meeting. And the bomb threat always came 00:19:29.108 --> 00:19:31.436 through the information desk and, and they were trained, you know, when 00:19:31.469 --> 00:19:35.156 you get a bomb threat, listen for all these other things, you know, noises 00:19:35.189 --> 00:19:40.256 and etc. etc. And we took that information and and anytime there's a bomb 00:19:40.289 --> 00:19:45.156 threat, I met with who, whoever they was on duty from campus police. And 00:19:45.189 --> 00:19:47.607 they came over and we went through all the information and then they 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:53.315 turned to you and say it's your call. I was concerned enough that it was a 00:19:53.348 --> 00:19:58.285 credible threat. And it wasn't during the finals week like normal, but 00:19:58.318 --> 00:20:02.526 that particular governor had a lot of interesting things going on at that 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:07.176 point and. So we made a decision to evacuate the building and 00:20:07.209 --> 00:20:10.535 unfortunately during lunch, that's all the students leaving and all the 00:20:10.568 --> 00:20:15.256 food service really hated it when I did that. So I went up to the alumni 00:20:15.289 --> 00:20:17.736 lounge where the board of Regents were meeting and went up to my vice 00:20:17.769 --> 00:20:20.656 president and said we need to evacuate the building. We've had a bomb 00:20:20.689 --> 00:20:26.516 threat. It may be credible. There's enough concern that we've made a 00:20:26.549 --> 00:20:29.156 decision to evacuate the building about the time the alarm started going 00:20:29.189 --> 00:20:33.266 off. So the vice president stood up and told the board of regents we need 00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:36.065 to evacuate the building. 00:20:36.098 --> 00:20:41.776 And the uh Governor turned and said, why are we evacuating the building 00:20:41.809 --> 00:20:44.217 and the vice president said, Well, there's been a bomb threat and we think 00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:47.607 it's credible enough that we need to evacuate the building. And he stood 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:51.226 up and said, I'm the governor of the state of Arizona. And you will not 00:20:51.259 --> 00:20:56.565 evacuate this building unless I say we do. So I said, sir, you're welcome 00:20:56.598 --> 00:21:01.726 to stay, and then I ask everyone else to leave. So that was, we had those 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.075 situations too. 00:21:05.108 --> 00:21:11.676 Are you the one that had the pots put on the freeway, uh, yeah. Route 51. 00:21:11.709 --> 00:21:18.196 OK, 00:21:18.229 --> 00:21:20.696 half of them are gone now. Yeah, I was wondering I'd a thing. It was 00:21:20.729 --> 00:21:25.127 proposed that in the airport. 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:31.006 On the escalator, long escalator that went up, there was a 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:37.496 There was a sculptor, I think his name was Alvarez, who did Plexiglas 00:21:37.529 --> 00:21:45.529 sculpture. And he did a he did a mockup of a. Gigantic rattlesnake that 00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:51.055 wrapped around. The 00:21:51.088 --> 00:21:58.607 Escalator and at the very top its head. was there and I said, We're not 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.926 gonna do that. That would scare the hell out of every little kid that came 00:22:01.959 --> 00:22:06.118 by here, so we never got that one.