WEBVTT 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:06.657 This is for Solis interviewing Marie Buck Hutchison. Cherie, Cherie. Good 00:00:06.690 --> 00:00:12.816 God, but you got Hutchison right. 00:00:12.849 --> 00:00:16.806 That's all my attention with Cherie Buck Hutchison, um, for Creative Push 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:21.105 project on September 19th at 1:30. 00:00:21.138 --> 00:00:26.247 So are we recording? Good. So actually she's just going to check levels, 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:30.186 and while she's doing that, I'll talk a little bit about the process. So 00:00:30.219 --> 00:00:33.826 that you're probably a good distance, maybe to be a little closer, you may 00:00:33.859 --> 00:00:40.186 want to scoot your chair in, um, and when you're speaking to try to, you 00:00:40.219 --> 00:00:44.307 know, direct your comments towards me or the microphone but not move your 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:46.476 head while you're saying things, you know, the voice will go in and out, 00:00:46.509 --> 00:00:50.286 which you're a pro at this so. Um, I will be asking questions, but they'll 00:00:50.319 --> 00:00:54.606 all get edited out. So if you could kind of pause a minute. No, bring the 00:00:54.639 --> 00:00:58.246 question into your response that'd be great. So if I say, did you gain a 00:00:58.279 --> 00:01:01.976 lot of weight during that pregnancy instead of saying yes, it's unusable. 00:01:02.009 --> 00:01:06.926 I gained a lot of weight that I didn't end or whatever instead of yes and 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:10.197 no answers. Yeah, exactly. 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:13.686 And because a lot of the editing is going to happen, just find comfort in 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:18.316 the pauses. You can collect your thoughts, um. You know, anything like 00:01:18.349 --> 00:01:21.977 that. If you remember something, but it's out of order, that's fine. You 00:01:22.010 --> 00:01:26.786 can say, Oh, I remember this, and we'll just put it back in order. Let's 00:01:26.819 --> 00:01:32.016 see, paint a picture, describe events visually or sensory, you know, think 00:01:32.049 --> 00:01:38.186 about sounds or smells or you know anything, feelings, just to really 00:01:38.219 --> 00:01:44.025 transport the artist and transport the listener, you know. into the space 00:01:44.058 --> 00:01:49.087 and the focus is more labor and delivery versus pregnancy. Yeah, but we're 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.926 going back as far as the conception to the pregnancy. So we like to know 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:57.486 how the pregnancy went, you know what I mean? So what your experience was 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:01.885 with the pregnancy, um, yeah, so that's been a part of it. It did affect 00:02:01.918 --> 00:02:08.767 the delivery location, so yeah, we're going to talk about that. Um, and I 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:10.995 think that's it. Ashley's going to be taking notes, but they're just for 00:02:11.028 --> 00:02:18.237 editing purposes, so just, you know, ignore it. Um, any questions? Um, my 00:02:18.270 --> 00:02:22.085 only question is that I have 4. 00:02:22.118 --> 00:02:26.366 Plus I have a grandmother that was a midwife and so there's this wisdom 00:02:26.399 --> 00:02:30.646 that was passed through. So I don't know. I don't know that you're gonna 00:02:30.679 --> 00:02:35.975 have enough time today and so I don't know if you want to just Um, have me 00:02:36.008 --> 00:02:40.017 summarize each four real quick and have you choose which you you want to 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:44.297 prioritize or should you say chronological. We need to cover all four 00:02:44.330 --> 00:02:50.217 births if you, um, if there's 1 or 2 that really stands out in your mind, 00:02:50.250 --> 00:02:57.005 um. OK, you know, but if not, we can we can definitely do all four from 00:02:57.038 --> 00:03:00.207 beginning to end. I don't think you're going to have time. No, but we can 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:04.606 reschedule that. OK, yeah, I mean, if you know off the top of your head 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:10.047 which births you like. I think there were 2 that stood out more, I would 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.446 say, than 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:19.366 just in terms of uniqueness and variety for your goals. That sounds great. 00:03:19.399 --> 00:03:23.237 That sounds great as long as you're comfortable with that. Um, and again 00:03:23.270 --> 00:03:28.517 , this is a long project. It's over the length of a year, so we can record 00:03:28.550 --> 00:03:32.835 the other stories too at a later date, you know. So it's not a rush or 00:03:32.868 --> 00:03:37.136 anything. Yeah, well, I just don't know don't know what you have and what 00:03:37.169 --> 00:03:40.005 you want your composite to look like. I just want to be sensitive to 00:03:40.038 --> 00:03:43.396 because sometimes you know my mother felt bad because she didn't say as 00:03:43.429 --> 00:03:48.566 much about my brother's birth as she said about, 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:49.755 you know what I mean? So I want to make to do they're going to have to get 00:03:49.788 --> 00:03:54.166 over. All right, excellent. We're on the same page. OK. So, um, OK, well, 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:57.846 just to make sure that the audio is set up, why don't you just give us, 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.446 tell us a little bit about yourself? OK, I'm Cherie Buck Hutchison. I'm an 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:06.936 artist in North Phoenix, uh. 00:04:06.969 --> 00:04:14.969 Let's see, I went to 3rd Friday last night. Are we good? OK. So, um, We're 00:04:16.899 --> 00:04:22.705 going to be talking about two births, right? Um, maybe take us back to try 00:04:22.738 --> 00:04:27.507 to keep them separate. I know it's hard to not compare a lot, um, but if 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:30.906 you can take us back as far back with the first one as you can remember, 00:04:30.939 --> 00:04:38.939 so you know. Was it planned? So my first child was not planned. Um, I 00:04:39.678 --> 00:04:45.676 think we've been married about 2 years is all and um. It was in the 70s, 00:04:45.709 --> 00:04:52.265 so the hippie thing was still going on. The, you know, Studio 54 scene 00:04:52.298 --> 00:04:56.187 hadn't really hit yet. It was just about to, but you know, natural 00:04:56.220 --> 00:05:01.976 childbirth was huge. And so, um. 00:05:02.009 --> 00:05:07.217 During the pregnancy, my father had fallen ill, um, developed cancer and 00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:12.296 died, and I started miscarrying at about 5 months. So I was considered a 00:05:12.329 --> 00:05:18.276 high risk pregnancy, so I had to have the baby in the hospital. And Um, 00:05:18.309 --> 00:05:22.836 the birth actually went pretty well, the delivery, uh, not really a lot of 00:05:22.869 --> 00:05:25.226 complications. 00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:29.995 Even though I was high risk, so can you, uh, give us more information 00:05:30.028 --> 00:05:35.106 because that this sounds really interesting, so I'm confused you at at 5 00:05:35.139 --> 00:05:39.406 months you started bleeding at and then they put you on bed they put me on 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:42.265 bed rest, 00:05:42.298 --> 00:05:47.467 um, hips above the shoulders. They gave me a pill. Well, first they wanted 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:52.776 me to get an abortion. Um, because the pill, if I ended up having a girl, 00:05:52.809 --> 00:05:58.705 they said she would be, um, she would not develop at puberty. And so they 00:05:58.738 --> 00:06:03.226 really encouraged an abortion, which at 5 months is kind of pretty far in 00:06:03.259 --> 00:06:06.745 and I didn't want to do that and so he said, well, you better hope you 00:06:06.778 --> 00:06:13.236 have a boy. So, um, I didn't. I had a girl, so her whole life we were 00:06:13.269 --> 00:06:17.596 waiting for her to hit puberty and see what would happen, but she's fine. 00:06:17.629 --> 00:06:22.317 And so that didn't manifest. Uh there was a point in time where we had to 00:06:22.350 --> 00:06:27.317 tell her this might happen to you. Well that wasn't very fun, um, but the 00:06:27.350 --> 00:06:34.395 pill did stop me from miscarrying, um, I think it was Provera and um. So 00:06:34.428 --> 00:06:38.437 you know, I carried her to term and went into labor naturally, it wasn't 00:06:38.470 --> 00:06:43.986 induced. And had her at the hospital. 00:06:44.019 --> 00:06:50.377 So, um, when you, I mean, you must have really complicated emotions about 00:06:50.410 --> 00:06:54.387 this, because a lot of times there's this excitement and anticipation and 00:06:54.420 --> 00:06:58.825 Um, well, it was, um, kind of sad time period, so I was grieving while I 00:06:58.858 --> 00:07:04.265 was pregnant for a while there, um. 00:07:04.298 --> 00:07:06.286 Yeah. 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:12.205 My dad really loved kids and so. That was gonna be the the grandchild he 00:07:12.238 --> 00:07:16.426 was really looking forward to seeing him, he didn't get to see her. Or or 00:07:16.459 --> 00:07:22.447 any of my kids for that matter, so that part was hard, um. 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:28.346 You know, I guess time helps you move on and so. Um, 00:07:28.379 --> 00:07:32.825 I got through it. I got through it and um. 00:07:32.858 --> 00:07:37.197 I think I was just happy to to carry her to term and then when she was 00:07:37.230 --> 00:07:44.116 born, she was so healthy. That was happy. Moment and um I I wanted a girl 00:07:44.149 --> 00:07:50.817 , so I was happy about that too. And 00:07:50.850 --> 00:07:56.986 Um, she, the, the, the treatment I got during the birth wasn't great. Um, 00:07:57.019 --> 00:08:01.026 they weren't really used to anyone not taking drugs at the hospital. They 00:08:01.059 --> 00:08:05.296 weren't used to natural childbirth, they 00:08:05.329 --> 00:08:10.575 Didn't, I don't feel like I was treated very humanely as a woman by a lot 00:08:10.608 --> 00:08:18.156 of male doctors. And um it was overall a pretty negative experience during 00:08:18.189 --> 00:08:23.046 the labor and delivery because of that. 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:30.055 Uh, and then After that, the baby got sick. Can you elaborate a little bit 00:08:30.088 --> 00:08:35.025 more on on the treatment or what the standard was well that's what it was 00:08:35.058 --> 00:08:41.106 is it was the the treatment was the standard at the time um you were just 00:08:41.139 --> 00:08:46.366 expected to put up with these things that were kind of dehumanizing and 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:51.746 and give them your money to treat you that way and I think that now they 00:08:51.779 --> 00:08:56.787 treat women. A lot better and with a lot more respect. I would say there 00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:02.226 was a big lack of respect. Um, it was pretty standard to give women an 00:09:02.259 --> 00:09:08.436 enema. Um, shave them completely. 00:09:08.469 --> 00:09:13.505 They my water had broken the night and so we went on into the hospital and 00:09:13.538 --> 00:09:19.417 I went into labor on the drive to the hospital. And um they needed to see 00:09:19.450 --> 00:09:24.217 something in under the microscope and the doctor couldn't see it and so he 00:09:24.250 --> 00:09:30.217 accused me of it just being urine instead of having my water broke and you 00:09:30.250 --> 00:09:36.375 know the. The tone of voice was really derogatory, I would say, you know, 00:09:36.408 --> 00:09:41.177 how do you know you didn't just pee? And it was just rude and that kind of 00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:45.856 set the tenor and it just went from there. I would ask for certain 00:09:45.889 --> 00:09:51.177 procedures not to be done that I felt were not good for me, not good for 00:09:51.210 --> 00:09:55.946 the baby. The drugs they gave at the time transferred to the baby, um, 00:09:55.979 --> 00:09:59.927 epidurals really weren't. Part of the scene, just a few of my friends had 00:09:59.960 --> 00:10:05.005 had shots. One of them was paralyzed for 2 years after she had been given 00:10:05.038 --> 00:10:09.936 an epidural shot. So I, I didn't want to do that. Um, first child had no 00:10:09.969 --> 00:10:17.856 idea what to expect. And um They labored for about 12 hours. There was a 00:10:17.889 --> 00:10:24.297 woman having twins in the next room. She was screaming, Holy Mother Mary, 00:10:24.330 --> 00:10:30.436 the entire 12 hours, and she was on drugs. So I don't know how much of the 00:10:30.469 --> 00:10:37.066 drugs even helped her, but it really didn't help my peace of mind. Um, you 00:10:37.099 --> 00:10:42.547 know, the monitor, internal, external, all of that. 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:46.515 And then they kept coming in to observe me because they thought it was so 00:10:46.548 --> 00:10:51.145 unusual that I was having a natural childbirth. And they made me stay on 00:10:51.178 --> 00:10:54.967 my back. Well I had back labor the whole time. I didn't have stomach labor. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:02.226 That's the worst thing for back labor. And um so yeah I was thrilled when 00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:06.946 it was time to push. how did you get through it? I mean, what was your 00:11:06.979 --> 00:11:11.826 process? How did you prepare um we had gone to breathing classes, Lamas 00:11:11.859 --> 00:11:18.645 and um. That's what I did. I did the breathing and then my, my hubby 00:11:18.678 --> 00:11:22.326 stayed in there with me the whole time. He really strong hands thankfully 00:11:22.359 --> 00:11:26.167 , and he had put them under my back and he would squeeze when I would tell 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:31.885 him it was starting. And that really helped me to. To deal with it, both 00:11:31.918 --> 00:11:39.316 the combo of the two. And so I was able to do it. And um let's see, do 00:11:39.349 --> 00:11:43.755 they let you go on your side at least? No. And you know what I've got a, 00:11:43.788 --> 00:11:48.706 I've got a sniffle. Sorry, I have a Kleenex here. I just, I've got one. I 00:11:48.739 --> 00:11:56.739 just, uh, I don't wanna sniff in the. I know better, no sniffing. 00:12:01.428 --> 00:12:05.076 Thank you. Sure. 00:12:05.109 --> 00:12:11.246 So Let's see. Were they telling you not to complain, 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:16.866 or yeah, it's just highly unusual, so we'd like to observe you. OK, I 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:22.106 really didn't want people, you know, with a gallery setting, you know, it 00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:26.907 was like surgery theater and uh you know, just watching me. It was weird. 00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:31.866 They got bored and left. Were they looking at your vagina? No, they were 00:12:31.899 --> 00:12:36.547 just, I was in labor in a labor room and um they were just watching me 00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:41.986 breathe and Um, they got bored and quit observing me, really. There was 00:12:42.019 --> 00:12:49.515 nothing exciting to watch. And you know, the baby was doing fine, so that 00:12:49.548 --> 00:12:56.816 that part was OK. Um, after I had her, I started shaking really badly and. 00:12:56.849 --> 00:13:00.025 The same person, the head nurse that had been observing me, uh, she's 00:13:00.058 --> 00:13:02.625 like, well, how are you doing? She came back in to observe some more, I 00:13:02.658 --> 00:13:05.986 guess. And I said, well, I'm shaking, I can't quit shaking. And she's like 00:13:06.019 --> 00:13:10.346 , well, you need to stop that. That's psychological, and you're gonna get 00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:15.486 constipation from it. And I thought that was just so weird. I'm like, oh 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:20.486 well, let me just stop my body from shaking right now. I, you know, it's 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:24.287 not something I intentionally brought on. So how could I intentionally 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.625 take it away? Uh, but it would you know it was that whole respect thing of 00:13:28.658 --> 00:13:35.576 just, you know, you're somebody that. I I felt like I was just a part of 00:13:35.609 --> 00:13:43.609 this treadmill birth process and you were supposed to accept it. Um, When 00:13:43.889 --> 00:13:50.246 I had her, they take you into the labor room. And 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:56.246 I was really surprised to see these big leather straps. And you put your 00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:00.287 feet in the stirrups. All right, well that, you know, maybe your foot will 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.275 slip out or something, but then your arms get strapped in and they were 00:14:04.308 --> 00:14:10.486 really probably 8 inches long and really heavy leather with buckles and I 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:15.436 looked at the nurse and I said. What are these for? And she's like, oh, we 00:14:15.469 --> 00:14:19.895 have to strap you down, like almost apologetic. 00:14:19.928 --> 00:14:26.736 And I said why? And she said, well, you know, some women get violent. And 00:14:26.769 --> 00:14:30.616 I looked at her and I go, I'm not on drugs. There's no reason. I'm not 00:14:30.649 --> 00:14:34.816 going to hurt anyone. I just need to have this baby right now. She's like 00:14:34.849 --> 00:14:39.635 , I know, I'm sorry. And then she strapped my arms down. And so it was 00:14:39.668 --> 00:14:42.917 really just the whole thing was demeaning. It was, it was a rough 00:14:42.950 --> 00:14:47.895 experience. Um, I asked the doctor not to cut me, and he completely 00:14:47.928 --> 00:14:54.255 ignored what I said and did it anyway. And We actually had a lawsuit 00:14:54.288 --> 00:15:00.385 settled out of court. And uh yeah, that was my great story, but then the 00:15:00.418 --> 00:15:04.307 baby came out just healthy and beautiful and you know, you're so happy in 00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:10.135 that moment. So, um, that part, you know, of course, is great because 00:15:10.168 --> 00:15:18.168 she's healthy. Um, she was sick and developed a failure to thrive, spend. 00:15:18.408 --> 00:15:24.417 From the time she was 2 to 4 months old in the hospital, 4 weeks in 00:15:24.450 --> 00:15:32.450 intensive care. And that was really, really awful. Um, 00:15:32.668 --> 00:15:37.816 And I, I don't know if it's related to the birth experience or not. There 00:15:37.849 --> 00:15:42.996 were a couple other babies with the same problem. Um, she did get well and 00:15:43.029 --> 00:15:51.029 thrive and doing great today. But it was just, yeah, a lot of. Weird stuff 00:15:51.678 --> 00:15:57.057 , a weird birth and so um it kind of soured me to the whole hospital 00:15:57.090 --> 00:16:01.936 experience. And you know, the whole point of having natural childbirth was 00:16:01.969 --> 00:16:06.456 to have control and I felt like I wasn't given very much control. I wasn't 00:16:06.489 --> 00:16:11.775 , my wishes weren't respected and um I didn't have any more hospital 00:16:11.808 --> 00:16:15.547 births after that. 00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:21.467 Did she? That's actually a great ending. Did she, um, your daughter, did 00:16:21.500 --> 00:16:26.265 she nurse? Or tell me about when you heard the cry and then what the 00:16:26.298 --> 00:16:31.255 process was after that. Um, well, it was my first baby, so I really didn't 00:16:31.288 --> 00:16:35.856 know how to nurse or, you know, you read and you try to understand and not 00:16:35.889 --> 00:16:40.677 like there was YouTube or anything back then. There was a, a league. The 00:16:40.710 --> 00:16:44.236 Ley league and those women were great and they would help you, but I mean 00:16:44.269 --> 00:16:48.927 you had to kind of already go through the. Hospital thing before you could 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.177 even get to that point. There was a like now a woman comes and she's an 00:16:53.210 --> 00:17:00.057 expert and helps you. And there wasn't any of that. So, um, they take the 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:04.617 baby pretty quickly away from you back then, so I really didn't get to 00:17:04.650 --> 00:17:07.776 spend much time with her. I, I made them bring her to me and put her on my 00:17:07.809 --> 00:17:12.545 chest cause I had read about that. Um, but then they took her and put her 00:17:12.578 --> 00:17:16.647 in the nursery. We really didn't like that, so my husband burst in the 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:22.325 nursery and held her and got yelled at and kicked out, but we still got to 00:17:22.358 --> 00:17:30.097 hold our baby. Um So then I don't know, a couple hours later you're in a 00:17:30.130 --> 00:17:34.696 room at that point and they bring you your baby and. You're on your own. 00:17:34.729 --> 00:17:42.656 Oh, and then after 9 at night. You go down to the infant nursery to nurse 00:17:42.689 --> 00:17:47.656 the baby, and there wasn't any privacy and so I was in there as a rookie 00:17:47.689 --> 00:17:53.347 with all these women who already knew how to nurse their babies, knew what 00:17:53.380 --> 00:17:58.446 nightgown to bring, which I had a hospital thing on and. You know, how do 00:17:58.479 --> 00:18:02.045 you nurse a baby with a gown that ties in the back and there was just no 00:18:02.078 --> 00:18:08.045 help. And so it was frustrating and um it kind of got off to a rough start 00:18:08.078 --> 00:18:13.285 there. And then, um, 00:18:13.318 --> 00:18:18.085 Were the women supportive? No, they weren't. They were all just kind of, 00:18:18.118 --> 00:18:23.426 they'd all had 2 or 3 kids and it was old shoe to them and. They were all 00:18:23.459 --> 00:18:26.575 sitting around talking with each other. I think they'd been in there maybe 00:18:26.608 --> 00:18:34.357 a day before me and I was the new kid and. Um, I was just kind of in there 00:18:34.390 --> 00:18:38.676 trying to figure it out on my own and so I went down there a couple times 00:18:38.709 --> 00:18:42.065 during the night and I think by morning things were getting a little 00:18:42.098 --> 00:18:46.726 better and then they bring you the baby and it was still a rough first day 00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:51.506 of just learning how to do all that and every time the baby nurse you'd 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:57.986 bleed more. You're walking, you know, back and forth down the hall and 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:03.256 you're worrying and and just. It wasn't nurturing. It wasn't comforting. 00:19:03.289 --> 00:19:10.545 It wasn't helpful. It was very institutional, very cold, sterile. And um 00:19:10.578 --> 00:19:15.266 Just wasn't a good experience for me. Other than I, I love my daughter. I 00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:19.467 got a baby out of it. How many days were you? Was it was the norm to be in 00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:25.795 the house 3 days. Yeah, couldn't wait to go home. And um, so your husband 00:19:25.828 --> 00:19:30.357 was at the birth, right, and he was doing all the breathing with you and 00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:34.516 squeezing my back mostly. I mean a certain point it was just me breathing 00:19:34.549 --> 00:19:39.305 in my own head I think counting just to get my mind somewhere else. It 00:19:39.338 --> 00:19:42.686 must have been hard for him to see you go through that experience to be 00:19:42.719 --> 00:19:48.706 diminished like that. I think some of the things that happened, he wasn't 00:19:48.739 --> 00:19:55.097 in the room with me, um, and then some of them. You know, he was young. I 00:19:55.130 --> 00:20:02.367 was 20, he was 22. And we didn't know what the process was, and they treat 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:09.656 you like you're weird if you question anything. And Um, I think at a 00:20:09.689 --> 00:20:13.055 certain point when he burst into the nursery, I think he was just done 00:20:13.088 --> 00:20:17.416 with their their process and their way of doing things. We had just had it 00:20:17.449 --> 00:20:25.449 at that point. So it was um. Definitely a learning curve. 00:20:25.868 --> 00:20:29.496 So she was, so you were in the hospital for 3 days and then they kept her 00:20:29.529 --> 00:20:33.456 for longer. No, I took her home for a month and then I would take her to 00:20:33.489 --> 00:20:38.785 the pediatrician and she wasn't gaining weight. So she was almost 8 pounds 00:20:38.818 --> 00:20:42.916 when she was born and um when I put her in the hospital, she was less than 00:20:42.949 --> 00:20:47.946 8 pounds. She was a month old, she was 7 something, but she had grown 00:20:47.979 --> 00:20:54.776 inches. And she just wasn't doing well. She had diarrhea, she failure to 00:20:54.809 --> 00:21:01.097 thrive. Um she was hungry, she was nursing constantly, just wasn't getting. 00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:07.295 What she needed or or just, you know, it was going through her. Um, They 00:21:07.328 --> 00:21:13.137 did do a long lengthy process and it was really scary. um I mean the 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:17.496 diagnostic thing itself was horrific, you know, they call you in the 00:21:17.529 --> 00:21:20.575 middle of the night. Well, we think your baby has spinal meningitis, we 00:21:20.608 --> 00:21:25.607 want to do a spinal tap. Can you give us permission on the phone? And it's 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.246 , you know, 2 in the morning we're like, well, we'll come down, you know, 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:34.736 well, no, go back to sleep. Things like that, just weird, and, uh, you 00:21:34.769 --> 00:21:39.117 know, how can you sleep after something like that. And it wasn't that, 00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:41.916 thankfully, and you know, while you're there, I, I was there for two 00:21:41.949 --> 00:21:47.545 months watching other babies get sick, watching children die, watching 00:21:47.578 --> 00:21:54.256 horrible things happen. Um, your baby's in a crib next to a baby that's in 00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:58.835 a terrible place and that baby's staring at you. You know, like almost 00:21:58.868 --> 00:22:04.877 asking you for help. It's, it's horrible thing to watch and. Um, I, I'm 00:22:04.910 --> 00:22:08.315 sure there's a lot of nurse turnover rate with those kind of jobs just 00:22:08.348 --> 00:22:14.825 because it's hard. And so every time they would think it was something I 00:22:14.858 --> 00:22:19.127 would freak out because I had just seen a kid die from that. And so I was 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.926 really glad when it wasn't spinal meningitis as I had seen some really 00:22:22.959 --> 00:22:27.597 really sad stories and all the families heartbreak, it was really 00:22:27.630 --> 00:22:31.446 heartbreaking. Um, 00:22:31.479 --> 00:22:36.486 So what they did is they finally decided to let her intestines rest. And 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:43.186 they um gave her an IV. She'd run out of places, so they had called and 00:22:43.219 --> 00:22:47.486 they wanted permission to enter the juggler vein. Which is a high risk of 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:52.887 infection and I have seen babies get that as well. And so um we had given 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.406 it because they couldn't find a vein but they decided to wait until 00:22:56.439 --> 00:23:01.565 morning. Um, but during this time they had been, um, just using all her 00:23:01.598 --> 00:23:07.266 veins to just feed her intravenously, no oral food. And the next morning 00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:12.506 she took a slight, perhaps turn for the better, and so they said, well, 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.946 let's let's wait, let's not do the juggler if we don't have to. And then 00:23:15.979 --> 00:23:22.967 she started getting well. And that took about 3 weeks of just letting her 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.565 little intestines heal, but she had lost the lining to her intestines from 00:23:27.598 --> 00:23:34.926 all the diarrhea. And um So but that was, she was about 3 months old, 3 to 00:23:34.959 --> 00:23:40.607 4 months old. She got better, she came home. Um, I took her back in when 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:44.127 she was 6 months old and she was just this fat, healthy baby that they 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:50.266 didn't even recognize that she gained 18 pounds in one month. Once she got 00:23:50.299 --> 00:23:55.656 over her problem, which we still don't really know exactly what it was. So 00:23:55.689 --> 00:24:00.996 , um, I know in the end, it, it, you know, it turned out OK. Everything 00:24:01.029 --> 00:24:03.535 turned out OK. 00:24:03.568 --> 00:24:06.137 Wow, she must have been when she was having all that diarrhea, it must 00:24:06.170 --> 00:24:09.976 have been quite painful. Just screaming, screaming and nursing and 00:24:10.009 --> 00:24:16.686 screaming and. Oh Uh, yeah, and messy and there was cloth diapers back 00:24:16.719 --> 00:24:23.467 then and you know the Pampers or I shouldn't say brand name, edit. 00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:28.476 The store bought diapers, um, they didn't have the elastic around the legs. 00:24:28.509 --> 00:24:32.776 They weren't as effective. A cloth diaper actually was better. But then 00:24:32.809 --> 00:24:36.526 when it's that kind of a situation, it's just absorbing right into the 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.805 fiber and actually some friends got together and bought me a diaper 00:24:40.838 --> 00:24:44.617 service during that time and that was great cause we were just ripping 00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:49.117 through them. And yeah, you know, you go to a restaurant and then this 00:24:49.150 --> 00:24:54.236 would happen and you had to leave and it was just it was messy and. Scary 00:24:54.269 --> 00:24:58.075 , it was scary cause she was sick and she wasn't getting well. And then, 00:24:58.108 --> 00:25:01.446 oh, all of a sudden you, you're going for a pediatric checkup and they say 00:25:01.479 --> 00:25:04.607 , well, we want to put your baby in the hospital today. You're like, today 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:11.825 ? Yeah, I'll, I'll meet you over there, be there by 5. It's like. 00:25:11.858 --> 00:25:18.726 Worse than I thought. So, a lot of um Experience right off the bat with 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:24.506 the first child that made the other ones seem a lot easier. It it just 00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:28.416 didn't go as harshly. 00:25:28.449 --> 00:25:32.746 Yeah, that's, that's, you've been through a lot. I mean, that was a lot to 00:25:32.779 --> 00:25:37.496 go through. It was, especially after just losing my dad. My mom was 00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:43.166 grieving, she's a new widow, all that. I was trying to help her I think in 00:25:43.199 --> 00:25:48.506 a way it was good because it kind of kept her busy helping me. 00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:53.867 You know, in a sick way, um, that happens sometimes. 00:25:53.900 --> 00:25:59.147 Yeah, thank you for sharing that. It was really intense 00:25:59.180 --> 00:26:02.906 and really eye opening, you know, talking about a different era of 00:26:02.939 --> 00:26:07.266 birthing, and you were right at the cusp, right? You know like that late 00:26:07.299 --> 00:26:12.416 60s, 70s, yeah, that was mid 70s. 00:26:12.449 --> 00:26:15.276 And I think, I'm not sure when the birthing center started, but I think a 00:26:15.309 --> 00:26:21.877 lot of women had stories like mine or similar that um we just all quit 00:26:21.910 --> 00:26:26.696 using hospitals because we weren't being treated very nicely and They had 00:26:26.729 --> 00:26:31.815 to do something to get us back in there. The midwives didn't cost near as 00:26:31.848 --> 00:26:37.156 much, I think. Well, that's another birth story, but not too many years 00:26:37.189 --> 00:26:43.035 after that, my midwife only charged $200. I mean she went up in time, but 00:26:43.068 --> 00:26:47.746 back then that's what it cost and the hospital was thousands still and so 00:26:47.779 --> 00:26:52.545 economically, I think some women also chose that, but for me I wanted 00:26:52.578 --> 00:26:58.295 control of my own situation. And so yeah, I moved away from the 00:26:58.328 --> 00:27:02.795 institutionalized process and and I think there was just this whole wave 00:27:02.828 --> 00:27:07.666 of people that did it and then the birthing centers developed as a result 00:27:07.699 --> 00:27:14.276 of that as an outlying and they act like it's. This nurturing experience, 00:27:14.309 --> 00:27:17.476 but if you've ever been in a birth room, it turns into an operating room 00:27:17.509 --> 00:27:22.026 very rapidly. I think we can go ahead and get into the second story. Do 00:27:22.059 --> 00:27:27.736 you need a time stamp or anything? Are you good or good? Are you 00:27:27.769 --> 00:27:31.756 comfortable to start talking about that? 00:27:31.789 --> 00:27:39.186 I'm gonna go to my 3rd child. Um, and you can say this is my 3rd. 00:27:39.219 --> 00:27:43.847 Think back because I haven't thought about this so much. And again, think 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:48.055 it back as far as you can with that third birth, you know. You know, were 00:27:48.088 --> 00:27:54.137 you planning on having a 3rd child. 00:27:54.170 --> 00:27:56.805 any of them. 00:27:56.838 --> 00:28:01.166 Um, let's see. 00:28:01.199 --> 00:28:05.847 No, I didn't plan my third child. Um, I had already had a boy and a girl. 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:11.217 I thought, you know, nuclear family, I'm good with that. Um, but then I, I 00:28:11.250 --> 00:28:16.156 did get pregnant again about 3 years later, and. So we went ahead and had 00:28:16.189 --> 00:28:22.397 her, um, let's see. 00:28:22.430 --> 00:28:28.137 I used a midwife, um, she's pretty well known in the Phoenix metropolitan 00:28:28.170 --> 00:28:33.137 area. Um, I found out about her through my niece who had had a baby with 00:28:33.170 --> 00:28:36.857 her and I was in attendance at that birth and I thought she was very 00:28:36.890 --> 00:28:43.006 respectful. And treated women very kindly. Um, at the time we lived in an 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:49.607 outlying area and we were about a half hour away from any hospitals and so 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:56.246 the midwife wouldn't come to us. She wanted us to come in to Phoenix and 00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.627 be within 5 minutes of a hospital. 00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:06.776 So for that child, um, we found a. It was a motel, it was a motel room. It 00:29:06.809 --> 00:29:13.325 was across a small street off from her office so I happened to go in labor 00:29:13.358 --> 00:29:19.416 on a day when she was having appointments and so she would just walk over 00:29:19.449 --> 00:29:27.285 and check on me. In my labor process, um, in between her appointments. And 00:29:27.318 --> 00:29:32.467 um it was right off the I-17. I drive by there and. I just can't help but 00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:36.877 have these thoughts when I drive by there and see that. Um, it was a 00:29:36.910 --> 00:29:40.906 kitchenette and so we, we got 2 units, so I was with my husband in the one 00:29:40.939 --> 00:29:47.426 and then my mother took my two older kids. Next door, so they were um at 00:29:47.459 --> 00:29:52.805 the birth, but they didn't have to just sit there and stare. And she took 00:29:52.838 --> 00:29:56.726 him swimming and different things while I was laboring. Um, the midwife 00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.085 came over at the end of her day. 00:30:00.118 --> 00:30:03.736 Maybe by noon she was over there, um, she had a midwife assistant with her 00:30:03.769 --> 00:30:08.335 , and they both just kind of hung out at the table and. Um, checked me 00:30:08.368 --> 00:30:13.026 periodically. I was able to walk around. I didn't have to lay on my back 00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:17.456 or I, I could just do whatever was comfortable for me, and that was really 00:30:17.489 --> 00:30:21.785 great. Um 00:30:21.818 --> 00:30:29.347 Let's see. We thought I'd have the baby by noon, so we were all kind of 00:30:29.380 --> 00:30:33.506 taking wagers on what time the baby would be born at. Things went really 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:38.026 well, very smoothly. Um, 00:30:38.059 --> 00:30:41.486 Except it was somebody said 10 o'clock, 10 o'clock in the morning, the 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:47.565 baby was not there. So, well for sure by noon. 11 o'clock came. I I 00:30:47.598 --> 00:30:51.486 dilated quite a bit, but the baby wasn't there. By noon, the baby wasn't 00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:58.176 there. So, oh, for sure, 1:30, and the baby still wasn't there. So we 00:30:58.209 --> 00:31:06.209 started to get concerned and um. About 2:30, I think. She realized I'm 00:31:07.699 --> 00:31:15.699 completely dilated at the. The shoulder was presenting first. And so, um, 00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:19.877 she said, you know, you're gonna, I, I think I was at the foot of the bed 00:31:19.910 --> 00:31:23.726 and there was a person, my husband, and the midwife was pushing on one of 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:28.117 my feet, or just, you know, helping me to have something to push against. 00:31:28.150 --> 00:31:31.967 And it just wasn't gonna work and so she said, I need you to stand up on 00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:36.367 the bed right now. And so, you know, you're gonna have to have this baby 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.555 standing up. I'm sorry, but we've got to get this baby out now. So I did, 00:31:41.588 --> 00:31:46.555 but all of a sudden I started shaking really tremendously, very, very 00:31:46.588 --> 00:31:53.226 strongly and um. I don't know why. But my husband had to hold me up. I 00:31:53.259 --> 00:31:59.516 just could not hold myself up and push. And I I felt strong. That was the 00:31:59.549 --> 00:32:05.246 weird part is I felt like a very strong person and I could do this, but. 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:13.127 My body did not want to cooperate. So and and I was drug free. Although it 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:18.246 probably was similar to if you were on drugs and not able to control your 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:25.436 own body, but um. That worked, that worked, so I had her completely 00:32:25.469 --> 00:32:31.026 standing up. Did they reposition her inside you or do anything or she just 00:32:31.059 --> 00:32:39.059 did I just um. She must have pushed her up a little bit and all my kids 00:32:39.729 --> 00:32:46.206 were born Sunnyside up. So got her to where the head would come first, and 00:32:46.239 --> 00:32:53.387 then things went pretty good after that. Um, yeah. 00:32:53.420 --> 00:32:57.706 So then after she was born, sat on the edge of the bed and delivered the 00:32:57.739 --> 00:33:05.575 placenta. And the placenta was huge. It was really big and um she had 00:33:05.608 --> 00:33:09.736 never seen one that big. I was, I was pretty big pregnant, so I can 00:33:09.769 --> 00:33:15.656 imagine that and the baby was 8 pounds 5 ounces in addition. So now we're 00:33:15.689 --> 00:33:21.456 in a motel and we need to dispose of these things. So the placenta is in a 00:33:21.489 --> 00:33:26.516 a metal bowl. And so my husband takes it and just throws it in a dumpster 00:33:26.549 --> 00:33:32.055 outside the back of the motel. And a couple hours go by and he realizes 00:33:32.088 --> 00:33:37.176 that it looks like a crime scene. And birth is bloody. It's a very bloody 00:33:37.209 --> 00:33:44.387 thing. So he goes back and fishes it out and puts it in a bag and then 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:49.496 throws it out again. And I said, well, go throw a bunch more trash on top 00:33:49.529 --> 00:33:52.776 there, otherwise we're gonna have some sort of weird investigation, and I 00:33:52.809 --> 00:33:58.127 don't really want that today. I'd like to bond with my baby. 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:04.377 And, and so it, it, it was OK. It was just a weird side point. Did the 00:34:04.410 --> 00:34:07.377 hotel or the motel know that that's what was happening? Were you making 00:34:07.410 --> 00:34:14.486 noises? was breathing There was a newborn crying all night. But because it 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:21.175 was a suite and it was larger, I think that helped. Um, My mother brought 00:34:21.208 --> 00:34:27.615 my two other kids over right as it was time to deliver. So one was 6 and 00:34:27.648 --> 00:34:35.557 one was 3. And the 6 year old had seen the 3-year-old born. And so she was 00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:43.015 kind of laying on the floor with her head kind of held up by her arm and 00:34:43.048 --> 00:34:48.155 She's like, could you hurry up, please? I want to go swimming. So it was 00:34:48.188 --> 00:34:54.845 no big deal to her and so um I think she took him. Out and then back in 00:34:54.878 --> 00:34:57.477 again cause. 00:34:57.510 --> 00:35:01.086 I had to stand up and we thought, well, this might be traumatic. So then 00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:07.557 we brought him back in right after she was born. And uh That helped the 3 00:35:07.590 --> 00:35:14.155 year old get ready for next year when there was another birth. So, um, 00:35:14.188 --> 00:35:18.486 they know what to expect. Is your daughter that you were mentioning, is 00:35:18.519 --> 00:35:24.057 that is that the 3 year old or the 3 year old was my son. So my, my 00:35:24.090 --> 00:35:28.767 daughter, my oldest daughter was 6. My son was 3 when I had the third 00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:34.057 child. Does it prepare your daughters to see, do you only have one 00:35:34.090 --> 00:35:37.296 daughter? I have 3 daughters. Are they, were they more prepared for their 00:35:37.329 --> 00:35:43.126 own, for their own delivery? I think she was. I think she was, um. I don't 00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:47.445 know, you have to ask her. But I certainly knew what to expect. Yeah, your 00:35:47.478 --> 00:35:51.327 whole youth really, you're kind of preparing for that experience and then 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:55.287 I attended a lot of other women's births after I had had, you know, all my 00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:59.967 kids. I had 3 at home, so then she was. I was a person. I was a go to 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:05.356 person for a long time for friends that were having babies or women maybe. 00:36:05.389 --> 00:36:09.236 Um, you know, 10 years younger than me that were having their first child 00:36:09.269 --> 00:36:14.356 and wanted someone there that also knew what it was like, so had a lot of 00:36:14.389 --> 00:36:20.287 that, had a home birth in my bedroom, someone else's. 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:27.086 Do you keep in touch with those women? Are they local? 00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:29.506 I'll have to give you some cards with them, um. One is in California, one 00:36:29.539 --> 00:36:35.695 is local. And she had one at home, yeah, she had a, a heavy story, so yeah 00:36:35.728 --> 00:36:41.416 , she might be definitely somebody you'd like to talk to. um, so I'm gonna 00:36:41.449 --> 00:36:47.655 ask you that really hard question reflecting on these birth experiences, 00:36:47.688 --> 00:36:53.057 um, and not not to think of it as like summarizing them, but just, you 00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:57.086 know, when you think back on these experiences, somehow we attribute 00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:01.155 meaning to them, you know, if you can think about. What they've meant to 00:37:01.188 --> 00:37:05.876 you or um the experiences surprised you, if there's anything surprising 00:37:05.909 --> 00:37:08.615 about them or. 00:37:08.648 --> 00:37:14.436 Hm, anything surprising, well, I guess. At that time, you know, everything 00:37:14.469 --> 00:37:18.796 , you know, was just right at the end of the hippie movement and so 00:37:18.829 --> 00:37:22.037 everything was supposed to be natural and go well. A lot of people, the 00:37:22.070 --> 00:37:27.276 dads were delivering the babies. They didn't even want midwives. Um, 00:37:27.309 --> 00:37:33.155 people were making placenta stew after the birth and celebrating, um. We 00:37:33.188 --> 00:37:38.316 didn't go that far, but we did plan it with a tree over, um, for the ones 00:37:38.349 --> 00:37:45.566 that um we could, obviously the motel one, we didn't. Um, 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:52.327 So it was surprising when things would go wrong, I think. Um, it was also 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.727 nice when something did go wrong but it was able to be handled naturally. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.967 So you know, a simple solution instead of a C-section to stand up and have 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.017 the baby. Um, you know, the women were just fabulous to work with. They 00:38:07.050 --> 00:38:13.066 were. You know, a part of my life, a big connection, and I stayed in touch. 00:38:13.099 --> 00:38:16.706 I called him back when I got pregnant again, you know, they were 00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:22.186 definitely my go to people. I think that um 00:38:22.219 --> 00:38:28.626 Having moved from a very clinical. The situation, um, into a situation I 00:38:28.659 --> 00:38:35.905 chose was more of a personal journey and taking back control and I um. I 00:38:35.938 --> 00:38:43.938 think I relate to that. And um I'm not sorry, not one bit sorry I did. 00:38:45.688 --> 00:38:47.688 That's good, that was excellent. I love the idea of personal journey too. 00:38:49.429 --> 00:38:54.717 I think that was really lovely, yeah. Yeah, that's great. And ownership of 00:38:54.750 --> 00:39:00.039 your experience and Um, you know, it's interesting.