WEBVTT

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 This is Boris Solis interviewing for the Creative Push project on

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December 17, 2016 at 12:35 p.m. OK,
can you say your name and your age? Uh

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, Nicole Gonzalez and I'm 36.
Excellent. OK. So why don't we start with

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you just giving me a little like
family background, you know, where you're

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from, you know. So I'm Dana and I grew
up in Waterflow, New Mexico with my

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mom and my stepdad, and we have your
typical blended family. Um, I

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actually have 8 siblings and um, yeah,
it's, it was a really nice

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childhood. We traveled to like um.
North Dakota, South Dakota, selling uh

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jewelry, visiting people and going to
powwows. Um, and my dad actually

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lived. I would say like 10 minutes
south on the Navajo reservation. Um,

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he's a diesel mechanic and he lived in
a trailer. Um, I have a lot of fond

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memories of visiting him because I
would play in the ditch and go jump in

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the river in the summertime and go
climb what it's called little hugback,

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um, and just have my little tea
parties up there by myself and. I often

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think about my kids not having that
kind of childhood today because we're

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too afraid to send them out to do
stuff like that by themselves. But those

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were really good times. My mom, she um
she worked for a coal mine. She

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used to drive the big coal trucks. My
whole family actually worked for um

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BH what is it? Uh, for one of the coal
mining companies up there, there's

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like 3 of them, but my grandfather, my
uncles, my aunts, my mom, my dad,

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everybody worked for coal mines. Um,
and I feel like they provided us a

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really good income and I think that's
why a lot of my relatives work there.

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Um, my mom did a lot of shift work.
She'd worked night shift and weekends

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, holidays until she injured her back
and then she stopped working. And my

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stepdad continued to work there until
he retired recently from an injury.

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And she, um, after she married my dad,
my stepdad, they had two more

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children who are my little brother and
sister, and so I pretty much raised

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them. They were with me everywhere I
went in high school. People thought

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they were my kids because they were
always with me. And um my family

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really like to travel a lot and so I
really I'm thankful for their

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adventurous side because I also like
to travel still. Um, my mom and dad

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today make teepees and that's their
business. I, I feel like my mom was

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just always kind of a natural
entrepreneur. She sold Mary Kay, she, she

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made jewelry, she sews like nonstop
these days, and they make teepees,

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still sell jewelry here and there. So
they're pretty, they're pretty busy

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even though they're retired. Um, my
dad, he, my stepdad, he grew up in the

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Native American church, and so he
introduced that to our family when I was

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pretty young. Um, Having people over
for all night meetings and um having

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a teepee in the backyard like that was
normal for me. Um, my parents would

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often go on weekends to other
families' homes to do ceremonies for them,

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for healing. And that was a good, just
a normal kind of thing that we did

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, you know, my mom, um, She would pray
over us, she would get her cedar

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out and her fan, and she would pray
over us if we had a big test, or if

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we're having family issues, she would
pray. Um, a lot of my milestones

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growing up was like that. My 16th
birthday, we had a NAC meeting for

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graduation, I had an NAC meeting and
If there were problems, we had sweat

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lodge and we sit and talk with our
family and have a sweat lodge. Um, to

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me, that was really normal. I don't
think I realized how lucky I was to

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have that growing up. Um, my dad, who
is a diesel mechanic, he. Has a new

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family as well. He's got another son
with my stepmom and. He has a very

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big family as well. Um, he's got 8
siblings and we would go to their sheep

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camp and play outside and for
Thanksgiving or Christmas, we'd go over and

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visit. He's a farmer, so he was always
outside irrigating the field or

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planting corn and like he really liked
to be outside and work. So I feel

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like I got a good balance of kind of
being outdoors and being indoors.

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Do you remember your mother being
pregnant? I do remember my mom being

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pregnant with her first child, which
was my sister. Um, I don't, I think I

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was maybe 9 or 10, um. I remember
having her, she's had this big belly.

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 Maybe she was 8 or 9 months, um.

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And we would go for walks. We so in
water flow, we lived off right right

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off the highway of 550. So we would
walk up and down the road for like

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exercise, and she'd be walking with
her pregnant belly. People would stop

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and ask if we needed a ride because
maybe we thought we had a car broken

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down, and my mom would tell them, no,
I, I, um, I don't need a ride, we're

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just getting exercise. But she, she
went to the hospital in Farmington and

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had her baby and during that time, you
know, kids were not allowed in the

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hospital and I remember really missing
her when she was gone at the

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hospital. It felt like forever. I
don't really know how long she was gone.

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Um, and because I was the only child
at home with my stepdad, it felt

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very quiet and lonely when she wasn't
there. Um, but she went to the

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hospital and, you know, next thing you
know, she came home with the baby

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and it was my sister and You know, I
don't really remember my sister so

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much as a baby. Um, I was very much
the big sister helping change diapers

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and. You know, taking care of them
when she was away for POD meetings or,

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you know, helping my dad. Um, and then
my, I guess she must have had a

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miscarriage at some point between my
sister and my brother, and they had

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some sort of ceremony done. And then
she had my brother. Um, who I was

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really happy to have more kids in the
house. It was less quiet. And he um

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He Was pretty healthy baby, you know,
again, I was curious and wanted to

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be there with her at her birth, but I
couldn't. Um, I think my mom likes

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to laugh because the first thing I
said to her was like they look like one

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of them, which my dad had 3 other
stepchildren or 3 children from another

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marriage. And so I was making a
reference that they look like his side of

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the family. Um, they kind of laughed
about that, but, you know, I, I'm

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really close to my little brother and
sister because I spent so much time

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taking care of them. Um, I know when I
went to college, they were pretty

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sad and upset to see me go.

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Did you um understand the birth
process? Did she share any of that with

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you at a young age? I didn't
understand the birth process, um. No, she

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didn't tell me about babies or how
they came to be. Um, It wasn't until I

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became older and had my own children
that I began to ask my mom about how

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my birth was, and she said she doesn't
quite remember. Um, I, she says, I

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want to say like 5 or 6 months, um,
she and my dad got divorced, and I

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think that was really traumatic for
her and so she didn't remember my

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pregnancy or my birth. It kind of
bothers me that she doesn't remember

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that sort of thing with me, but you
know when I start asking her about my

00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:08.726
sister's birth and my brother's birth,
like she doesn't quite remember

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either. Um, unless you know, she's
sitting across from my aunt who was

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with her for each of those births,
then it's like her mind is and jarred

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that that my sister needed a vacuum
assisted delivery before she could

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come out. Um, she doesn't know if she
had an epidural or not, um. So yeah

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, she doesn't quite remember those
things. So can you tell us about your

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first pregnancy, like all the way back
to the conception, you know, what

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were the circumstances? Was it
expected? Was it a surprise? It was

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definitely a surprise. My husband and
I um had been dating for 2 years and

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he asked me to marry him in January.
And it was really lovely and um.

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Engagement and then a couple of months
later I found out I was pregnant

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and um I had a miscarriage that first
time um and then not too much longer

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I found I was pregnant again and I was
really happy and excited even

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though it wasn't planned or expected.
I definitely was concerned that

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people would think that I got
pregnant. And then we got married. Um, but

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that's not what happened. And I know
he was really happy and excited. Um,

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at the time I was working as a nursing
assistant at a like a rehab

00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:35.186
hospital in Albuquerque. Um, I was
really interested in becoming a nurse

00:09:35.219 --> 00:09:39.846
when I met my husband. Um, actually,
no, I was actually going to school to

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be a doctor, um, when we met, and so
when we got engaged, you know, the

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plan changed a little bit and I
thought, well, I kind of want a family. I

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don't really want that busy life that
the doctor has, so maybe I'll be a

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nurse. And so I did everything I could
to learn about nursing, to get

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education, training and nursing before
I applied to nursing school. Um,

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but I was probably in my 2nd year of
college when I got pregnant with my

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daughter. And I was really sick. I was
so sick. I had to stop working and

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I threw up so many times a day and I
had to keep trash bags in my car

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because the motion made me sick. Um,
it was really difficult and I really

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had a hard time finding a doctor I
liked. I had no knowledge about

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midwifery or what kind of options I
had available to me. I asked my

00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.956
sister-in-law who she saw for her
pregnancies and She referred me to her

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doctor and. He was OK. Um, I don't
think I had any preconceived ideas

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about what kind of care I would get. I
just know he was a doctor. He

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listened to my belly when I went in to
see him. Um, and that was it. Like

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there wasn't really a relationship
there. I didn't, and I didn't expect

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one. Um, About our 3rd or 4th month
that I was pregnant, um, we got

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married. And in the Pueblo culture,
it's like a big old weekend event with

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lots of hard work and baking bread and
you know um working with the

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community and me being a young 20 year
old, I had no idea that's what all

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entailed. I thought the white wedding
and the dress and off with my

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girlfriends and having a bachelorette
party. I didn't have any of that. I

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I was sick and I was pregnant. And I
was trying to do my best to please

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everybody to have this wedding. Um,
And so the day of my wedding, I was

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still sick. My father-in-law had
gotten me a breakfast burrito with chili

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and oh, I just couldn't keep it down.
And it's funny because um. That

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first day, after we got married in the
church in San Alfonso Pueblo. Um,

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They take you to your home or your
family's home, and they talk to you

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about being about being married and
how to treat each other, and you

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choose speakers to talk to you about
marriage. Um, this can go on all day

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and all night. It just kind of
depends. So while your cooks are feeding

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everybody at a different location, the
community is talking to you about

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getting married or being married. Once
the conversation ends and they can

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release you, then you can go eat. So
it's probably maybe 4 or 5, maybe in

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the in the day that I got to eat for
the first time, and I was really sick

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and I was, we went to our Our um
reception and we're sitting at the table

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and I'm trying not to throw up and I'm
telling my husband, you know, can

00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.846
you please go grab me some bread and
some water? I said, I don't feel very

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good, and he's looking at me like, OK,
but he's not going anywhere and I'm

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getting really mad because I'm like,
OK, is this what it's going to be

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like? You know your wife is sick,
you're embarrassed to go grab some food

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because you don't want to offend
anybody, and I'm going to throw up on my

00:13:05.119 --> 00:13:10.125
dress. So I was really upset. And
finally somebody came and brought us

00:13:10.158 --> 00:13:14.486
some food and he saw that I was really
upset with him. I was trying not to

00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:17.395
cry sitting there, and it's hard not
to do that when people are looking at

00:13:17.428 --> 00:13:22.486
you. um, and I was in my mind
thinking, God, is this what I married? Is

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this guy not going to take care of me?
My needs going to come last when

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I'm pregnant and sick and he's not
going to grab me food. Like you have

00:13:29.918 --> 00:13:37.525
that realization, um. But he, he did
something kind of um very sweet, but

00:13:37.558 --> 00:13:42.385
he, he knew I couldn't say no, we had
a. Uh, a guy who came and played

00:13:42.418 --> 00:13:48.505
music while people were eating and he
played a song for me and he said,

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Can my wife come and dance with me?
And I couldn't say no. And so he asked

00:13:53.149 --> 00:13:59.606
me to go dance and and I forgave him
by that point. So We got through that

00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:04.047
first part. It was probably out of all
three of my pregnancies, the

00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:10.456
hardest part of it was being sick and
throwing up. And the remaining of my

00:14:10.489 --> 00:14:14.106
pregnancy, I.

00:14:14.139 --> 00:14:18.576
I, I don't think I was really aware of
what kind of mom I wanted to be. I

00:14:18.609 --> 00:14:23.976
hadn't read any literature. Um, I know
a lot of moms today are very

00:14:24.009 --> 00:14:27.946
self-aware about what kind of mothers
they want to be and. I just wasn't.

00:14:27.979 --> 00:14:35.979
I was 20 you know, I, I didn't have a
plan. Um I also had just been

00:14:36.719 --> 00:14:40.005
married into this family who I really
adored and loved my husband's family

00:14:40.038 --> 00:14:45.375
and. I feel like I was just really
trying to please everybody, um, and I

00:14:45.408 --> 00:14:50.775
hadn't made any plans about the birth
or. You know, I was reading what to

00:14:50.808 --> 00:14:55.025
expect when you're expecting and kind
of excited to see the changes to my

00:14:55.058 --> 00:14:58.667
body every week. I think through that
whole pregnancy, we only got one

00:14:58.700 --> 00:15:05.145
picture of my belly. Um, And

00:15:05.178 --> 00:15:09.816
It was pretty uneventful, I, I guess.
I don't know if I gained a lot of

00:15:09.849 --> 00:15:14.616
weight or not. I don't quite remember.
Um, I was also still in school full

00:15:14.649 --> 00:15:20.297
time being pregnant and so I was
pretty focused on my education. Um, my

00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:26.015
husband at the time, he was working in
um like the eastern part of New

00:15:26.048 --> 00:15:29.057
Mexico, so it's an hour and a half
hour drive, one direction, 1 hour half

00:15:29.090 --> 00:15:34.037
back. So when he would get home from
work, he was pretty tired.

00:15:34.070 --> 00:15:39.936
So did you fall into some traditional
roles of husband and wife? Yes and

00:15:39.969 --> 00:15:45.936
no. Um, when I met my husband, my mom
was very stern with him and had a

00:15:45.969 --> 00:15:50.936
talk that I was going to finish school
before we. Did anything. Um, we

00:15:50.969 --> 00:15:54.576
don't follow that obviously, but I was
determined to finish school for my

00:15:54.609 --> 00:16:01.515
own reasons. Um, so we weren't
traditional in that sense, um.

00:16:01.548 --> 00:16:07.106
I think As far as being a mom and
staying home and taking care of myself

00:16:07.139 --> 00:16:10.255
during my pregnancy.

00:16:10.288 --> 00:16:16.956
I think I was immature in my twenties
and just thinking that was my role.

00:16:16.989 --> 00:16:21.407
Um, did you, uh, so you had so many
other things on your plate, besides

00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:27.005
just focusing on your birth and the
pregnancy. So, but did you have a

00:16:27.038 --> 00:16:30.246
moment to think about like, um, did
you just think, well, I'm going to go

00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:34.366
to the hospital and whatever happens
happens, or did you? Right. So we, we

00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:39.846
did go to childbirth preparation
classes, um, and that was really exciting

00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:44.005
to be in a room full of moms and dads
and we were really attentive

00:16:44.038 --> 00:16:47.586
listening. I think it was like a four
week class. I remember doing the

00:16:47.619 --> 00:16:50.946
breathing and then they're showing us
the forceps and the vacuum and my

00:16:50.979 --> 00:16:53.106
husband's looking at me. He's like,
those things are not going to get used

00:16:53.139 --> 00:16:58.456
on our child. Um, but I was just kind
of naive, like, oh, OK, those are

00:16:58.489 --> 00:17:02.826
tools to help with delivery. Um, and I
believe we did that towards the end

00:17:02.859 --> 00:17:07.347
of our pregnancy. I remember the
morning my labor contractions started, it

00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:11.467
was like 2 in the morning and I was
like, oh, the contractions are

00:17:11.500 --> 00:17:15.946
starting, and I kind of, you know,
woke him up and shoved his arm a little

00:17:15.979 --> 00:17:18.746
bit, was like, Hey, you know,
contractions have started. He's like, really

00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:22.545
? Do we need to go to the hospital?
And I'm like, No, they're coming, but

00:17:22.578 --> 00:17:26.545
I don't think it's going to be a while
yet. But by that point I couldn't

00:17:26.578 --> 00:17:31.065
go back to sleep. So I get up and
we're cleaning our house because our

00:17:31.098 --> 00:17:35.825
baby room isn't quite ready and um you
know making sure my bag is ready to

00:17:35.858 --> 00:17:41.217
go and you know and the contractions
are still like cramping every couple

00:17:41.250 --> 00:17:47.347
of minutes and you know just some of
those changes I noticed in my body

00:17:47.380 --> 00:17:51.706
and I had actually a doctor's
appointment that day and my husband was

00:17:51.739 --> 00:17:55.226
going to work and he was like, Do I
need to go to work or do I stay? And I

00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:59.246
said, No, go to work. Um, I have a
doctor's appointment. I said this is

00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:06.097
probably just early labor and then um
I'll um. I'll call you if I need you.

00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:11.285
So he goes to work and then I go to
the doctor's office and the doctor

00:18:11.318 --> 00:18:15.535
looks at me and he says, Well, we're
going to induce you today. And I was

00:18:15.568 --> 00:18:19.016
like, Oh, I said, Well, I thought I
was still pretty early in labor. He

00:18:19.049 --> 00:18:22.387
says, No, your your blood pressure is
really high and we need you to go to

00:18:22.420 --> 00:18:27.926
labor and delivery right now. And I'm
like, OK, what I feel fine. Um, it's

00:18:27.959 --> 00:18:32.085
not till years later that I was
thinking about my last trimester of my

00:18:32.118 --> 00:18:37.246
pregnancy and looking at pictures. I
was really swollen, my feet were

00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.916
really swollen, my face was swollen. I
remember getting headaches. I

00:18:40.949 --> 00:18:47.156
remember flashes of light when I moved
in my vision. Um, which. To my

00:18:47.189 --> 00:18:51.545
knowledge, today is tall tale signs of
preeclampsia. Um, but I didn't know

00:18:51.578 --> 00:18:56.347
that then. I felt fine as far as I
know. So I remember going to labor and

00:18:56.380 --> 00:18:59.936
delivery. I just walked over because
he was in the same building. And they

00:18:59.969 --> 00:19:03.256
put up IVN and I called my husband. I
was like, OK, it's, you know,

00:19:03.289 --> 00:19:06.335
they're going to induce me today. You
need to come over and see me and get

00:19:06.368 --> 00:19:12.357
my stuff and. So he was excited. And I
believe they use Pitocin to get my

00:19:12.390 --> 00:19:17.506
labor going a little more and. And um
my my mother-in-law and my

00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:22.006
sister-in-law were there and I called
my mom and she came and. I was kind

00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:28.387
of Unsettled about who I want it to be
at my birth, um. Again, I was in my

00:19:28.420 --> 00:19:32.617
young twenties trying to please
everybody, not wanting people to feel left

00:19:32.650 --> 00:19:37.436
out because, um, but really, you know,
if it was. Years later, it would

00:19:37.469 --> 00:19:41.377
have just been me and my husband. I
wouldn't have had so many people there.

00:19:41.410 --> 00:19:43.776
 Um,

00:19:43.809 --> 00:19:48.055
My relationship with my sister-in-law
when we were married. Early on was

00:19:48.088 --> 00:19:54.416
really difficult. Um, she really was
judgmental about me and my role, why

00:19:54.449 --> 00:19:59.016
he married me at all. Um, a lot of our
disagreements during our pregnancy

00:19:59.049 --> 00:20:03.696
was because of her. So to have her at
the birth um was kind of my peace

00:20:03.729 --> 00:20:07.575
offering because his mom was insistent
that she should be there and wanted

00:20:07.608 --> 00:20:13.776
to be there to support. So I allowed
it, um. But while she was there, like

00:20:13.809 --> 00:20:17.535
she was on her phone the whole time
and you know there's pictures of her

00:20:17.568 --> 00:20:24.967
talking on the phone over my bed and.
Um, a little distracting, um.

00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:30.246
But I did get an epidural for pain
because the Pitocin got pretty intense

00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:35.575
and strong. Um, and I didn't feel
anything once the Pitocin was in or not

00:20:35.608 --> 00:20:39.726
sorry, the epidural was placed. I was
pretty comfortable. Um, I still to

00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:44.526
this day don't know what my blood
pressure looked like. Um, I do remember

00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.847
when it came time to push, you know,
the doctor's sitting there at the

00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.526
edge of the bed and my legs are spread
open, and I can't even remember if

00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:57.045
I was in stirrups or not. I might have
been, um, but I'm pushing, but I'm

00:20:57.078 --> 00:21:01.736
not feeling anything. And I'm looking
down at him asking him, am I pushing

00:21:01.769 --> 00:21:05.857
appropriately and he's not giving me
any feedback. So I'm looking to my

00:21:05.890 --> 00:21:09.637
right, talking to the nurse like, is
this how I push? And she says, Oh

00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:14.717
yeah, you're doing fine. You need to
push this way. I probably was pushing

00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:22.266
for almost 3 hours when they finally
decided to um use some forceps. So

00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:26.746
they used the forceps to help her out.
Um, and she came out and the first

00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:32.305
thing I saw was her big belly, like
big belly, crying baby. They bring her

00:21:32.338 --> 00:21:37.387
over to me and I'm like, you know like
great, you know she's out. um and

00:21:37.420 --> 00:21:42.016
they take her right away over to this
to the warming station. And you just

00:21:42.049 --> 00:21:45.166
see her belly. It's all I can see
she's just a big baby on her belly and

00:21:45.199 --> 00:21:50.756
she's got rolls at her arms and. Um,
Anyway, my mother-in-law and my

00:21:50.789 --> 00:21:54.156
sister-in-law over there were checking
on her and my mom's looking at her

00:21:54.189 --> 00:21:57.555
and then my husband didn't leave my
side. He's he looked at her, but he

00:21:57.588 --> 00:22:02.367
was more concerned about me. And um,

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.107
I think I asked him if everything
looked OK, and he says, Well, it looks

00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:13.387
pretty bad down there. I was like, OK.
Um, and then I start to feel very

00:22:13.420 --> 00:22:16.706
lightheaded, like I want to black out.
Like I'm getting really warm and

00:22:16.739 --> 00:22:21.867
fuzzy and I want to close my eyes and
go to sleep and And then there's

00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:27.246
another nurse coming in and the voices
are fading and the doctor says,

00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:31.097
Give it to her in her leg and they
give a shot to me on my right leg, and

00:22:31.130 --> 00:22:34.217
I didn't really feel it because I had
the epidural. But my husband's like

00:22:34.250 --> 00:22:39.897
, you know, don't go to sleep. Talk to
me. Um, and they inverted the bed,

00:22:39.930 --> 00:22:45.217
so my head was lower, um, but
everybody was getting pretty scared because

00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:48.815
apparently he was having a really bad
postpartum hemorrhage that he was

00:22:48.848 --> 00:22:53.325
trying to stop. And he just said the
blood was flowing out of me like a

00:22:53.358 --> 00:23:00.127
river, you could hear it. And I was
just like, oh, OK. Um, and, and then

00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:04.166
he stitched me up and I didn't feel
that either. Um, and then right away

00:23:04.199 --> 00:23:07.446
after I was all done and stitched up,
I was fine, but my husband was like

00:23:07.479 --> 00:23:13.877
, are you OK? You know, you, you look
really pale, you know, you're Are

00:23:13.910 --> 00:23:18.436
you all right? He was really concerned
and my mom was concerned. It wasn't

00:23:18.469 --> 00:23:21.916
too much longer after maybe an hour or
two. They came back in and they

00:23:21.949 --> 00:23:25.756
hung this stuff called magnesium
sulfate, which I didn't really know what

00:23:25.789 --> 00:23:29.956
it was for. I think it was for, I
mean, I know it's for now, but at the

00:23:29.989 --> 00:23:34.117
time it was, I think it was for my
blood pressure because it was so high,

00:23:34.150 --> 00:23:39.035
and they had to keep that infusing
through me for 24 hours and it made me

00:23:39.068 --> 00:23:43.766
really groggy and sleepy and foggy and
I didn't really feel like I got to

00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:48.426
connect with my daughter because I was
kind of out of it. And people came

00:23:48.459 --> 00:23:52.236
and visited me and I was still kind of
trying to visit with them. And

00:23:52.269 --> 00:23:56.637
finally my husband's like, you don't
have to talk. You can just rest. You

00:23:56.670 --> 00:24:01.647
don't have to talk to anybody. Um, But
that was for the preeclampsia that

00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:06.565
I had. And you know, finally I think I
stayed at the hospital like 3 or 4

00:24:06.598 --> 00:24:12.127
days, which is a long time. Um, my
daughter weighed 8 pounds 15 ounces.

00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:20.160
She's a big girl. And Um, when it came
time to go home. You know, he

00:24:20.380 --> 00:24:23.186
carried her in the car seat and the
nurse was walking in front of him as a

00:24:23.219 --> 00:24:26.627
male nurse. And I was really surprised
that considering what I went

00:24:26.660 --> 00:24:29.627
through and how weak I felt because
when they had me get in the shower, I

00:24:29.660 --> 00:24:34.516
almost passed out, that they wanted me
to walk to the car and I was kind

00:24:34.549 --> 00:24:39.506
of like slow down, I'm holding onto
the wall to get through the hallway

00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:43.467
and these two men in front of me
walking really fast to get to the car and

00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:47.206
I had to tell them to slow down
because I, you know, I'm having a hard

00:24:47.239 --> 00:24:53.946
time. Um, But I, from what I remember
talking to the doctor after I had a

00:24:53.979 --> 00:24:57.746
postpartum hemorrhage, I had
preeclampsia, I had a forceps delivery of my

00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:02.147
daughter, who was really big. Um, I
did not have diabetes because she's a

00:25:02.180 --> 00:25:06.746
big baby. Um I had a really bad 3rd
degree tear, so my bottom was pretty

00:25:06.779 --> 00:25:13.696
sore for a couple of weeks after, like
achy when I moved, um. And it was,

00:25:13.729 --> 00:25:20.246
you know, I was exhausted and trying
to breastfeed her after. um, I wanna

00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:23.637
say I feel like I had a little
postpartum depression after I had her

00:25:23.670 --> 00:25:27.347
because I think it was during that
time when they were really talking

00:25:27.380 --> 00:25:31.347
about that postpartum psychosis and
women wanting to hurt themselves and

00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:34.305
their babies, and I was thinking in my
mind, Is that what I'm going

00:25:34.338 --> 00:25:37.266
through? Is that what I'm feeling? Do
I want to hurt her? No, I don't want

00:25:37.299 --> 00:25:42.967
to hurt her. Like these kind of mental
thoughts going through my mind. And

00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.766
I feel like I was really going through
the motions for a long time with

00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:51.486
her because I did. I don't know how to
be a mom. You know, I know I need

00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:56.847
to change her diaper and feed her and
breastfeed her and. Um, put her to

00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.686
bed, but like that really connecting
mothering that you hear women talk

00:26:00.719 --> 00:26:05.387
about like I don't feel like I had
that. Um, I don't think it, it took me

00:26:05.420 --> 00:26:09.065
a while before I even got the hang of
that. I felt like that too. I felt

00:26:09.098 --> 00:26:15.516
like it was my new job, right. Right,
and, and that's another thing is it

00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:20.986
did feel like it was my new job. Um,
And my husband's family is very

00:26:21.019 --> 00:26:26.075
traditional in the sense that the
real, the role, the mole um. How do I

00:26:26.108 --> 00:26:32.857
say the male female roles are very
specific. Um, So I felt guilty if I

00:26:32.890 --> 00:26:37.776
wasn't putting her to bed or holding
her or, you know, giving her the

00:26:37.809 --> 00:26:41.256
right kind of bath. And I, I have to
say I had family around who made me

00:26:41.289 --> 00:26:45.926
feel not very good to be a new mom,
judging me, and even after I gave her

00:26:45.959 --> 00:26:49.016
a bath the first time, my
sister-in-law gave her a bath again and clean

00:26:49.049 --> 00:26:53.936
her ears, and like, is she not clean
enough? Am I not doing a good enough

00:26:53.969 --> 00:26:58.776
job? Like it just felt very much like
that. And I feel like today that

00:26:58.809 --> 00:27:04.887
really um Helps me work with women
better because, you know, I remember

00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:10.506
all of those feelings with my first
child. And just learning to be a mom,

00:27:10.539 --> 00:27:17.176
knowing that there's judgment
everywhere. Um, So I'm I'm pretty thoughtful

00:27:17.209 --> 00:27:21.847
and encouraging to new moms because I
I know what that felt like. Yeah, I

00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:25.526
often say you're, you're being judged
the moment you can save, right what

00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:30.085
you eat, what you don't eat, what you
do or walk or not walk or whatever

00:27:30.118 --> 00:27:36.127
it is. There's no right way. You're
always doing it wrong, a little bit

00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:39.647
according to one person at least, you
know, so you just have to do what is

00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.347
right for you.

00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:46.446
Um, I do want to say though with her
pregnancy, um, because I grew up with

00:27:46.479 --> 00:27:51.367
these traditions, I did do like a
blessing way ceremony. With her and I've

00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:56.117
had it with each of my kids before I
went into labor or a month or so

00:27:56.150 --> 00:28:02.746
before, just because that's one of our
Dana traditions, um. So even though

00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:09.926
like intellectually those ceremonies
don't quite How do I say they They've

00:28:09.959 --> 00:28:14.607
always been a part of my life, but the
meaning and attention of them on

00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:20.156
some level I didn't quite get until
later.

00:28:20.189 --> 00:28:23.016
I mean, I definitely.

00:28:23.049 --> 00:28:26.535
Understand it more now and can reflect
and be like, man, I'm really glad I

00:28:26.568 --> 00:28:30.137
had those things done for me and I
asked for them, even though I wasn't

00:28:30.170 --> 00:28:33.426
quite clear about why.

00:28:33.459 --> 00:28:38.585
Did you um did you have a name picked
out or how did you come up with the

00:28:38.618 --> 00:28:42.746
names? Do you know the sex? So we knew
the sex of her. We knew she was a

00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:48.986
girl. Um, my mother-in-law's twin
sister is named Charlotte, and her twin

00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:54.347
sister died when she was 5, I believe,
from an illness. And so when she

00:28:54.380 --> 00:28:57.065
said her name was Charlotte, it was
like, Oh, we love that name. Nobody's

00:28:57.098 --> 00:29:01.746
named Charlotte. So we we saved
letting people know what her name was

00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:06.766
until after she was born. So it was a
nice blessing for her mom to hear

00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.776
that we named her after her sister.

00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:16.426
Um Was there anything special, you
know, um, blankets or cribs or anything

00:29:16.459 --> 00:29:20.906
that people made for you or that, you
know, you still have, or, you know,

00:29:20.939 --> 00:29:25.825
I know I still have August baby
blanket. So in the Pueblo culture, they

00:29:25.858 --> 00:29:30.916
have a naming ceremony, which is um

00:29:30.949 --> 00:29:34.276
You're supposed to have it within 1
month, I think, after the baby is born.

00:29:34.309 --> 00:29:39.397
I think with her we had it 3 months
after. Um, we chose one of the elders

00:29:39.430 --> 00:29:46.305
in the Pueblo to name her. And um they
named her Nana Kotze. Um, which I

00:29:46.338 --> 00:29:52.156
believe is yellow autumn leaf. And at
the same time, I also got my ended

00:29:52.189 --> 00:29:59.147
name when she got her ended name. And
um So it was really nice to have a

00:29:59.180 --> 00:30:03.656
naming ceremony. So this person who
does the naming ceremony is supposed

00:30:03.689 --> 00:30:07.976
to kind of guide them in the
traditional way of living and teach them

00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:13.226
things, you know. They have dances in
the Pueblo that the girls, the women

00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:16.756
have to dress up for and participate
in. So to talk about those things and

00:30:16.789 --> 00:30:21.117
to share that knowledge, I mean we
don't, we're not born knowing how to

00:30:21.150 --> 00:30:26.035
lace up or put on our moccasins or put
on our wraps or know what side our

00:30:26.068 --> 00:30:29.666
dresses need to be on or how to put on
our sash belts like those things

00:30:29.699 --> 00:30:35.867
are taught. So those are like things
that you're. You're, um, the woman

00:30:35.900 --> 00:30:42.575
who names you would basically teach
you those things. So we. Usually you

00:30:42.608 --> 00:30:48.226
can They get their name at the first
light. So when the sun comes up, then

00:30:48.259 --> 00:30:52.967
the light touches her and then you can
name them. Um, or you go to the

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:57.367
Pueblo Kiva and they gave them a name
then, um, during like different

00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:02.976
dances and stuff. So, but she got her
name that way.

00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:07.776
With at the Kiva, no, she, she did it
um in the Pueblo, but not during a

00:31:07.809 --> 00:31:12.246
ceremony or dance. It was a separate
occasion. And they give her a blanket

00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:16.926
and they dress her up in her moccasins
and her her clothing, which I still

00:31:16.959 --> 00:31:22.406
have um. And so they just have this
connection with this person throughout

00:31:22.439 --> 00:31:25.097
their life.

00:31:25.130 --> 00:31:30.897
That's a really, um, you know, a
lovely concept and one of the things, you

00:31:30.930 --> 00:31:34.016
know, talking to other women is this
kind of strength of community and

00:31:34.049 --> 00:31:39.016
family and that, um, you know, they're
just really inter interconnected in

00:31:39.049 --> 00:31:45.776
a very strong way. I think when it
comes to that connection to family,

00:31:45.809 --> 00:31:50.526
that was something that was really
attractive to me. And different coming

00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:55.137
from my Dane culture, from the Pueblo
culture. Um, before I met my husband

00:31:55.170 --> 00:31:59.295
, or actually, while we were dating,
there were times I came to the pueblo

00:31:59.328 --> 00:32:06.217
for dances and stuff and I helped bake
bread and some of these like Female

00:32:06.250 --> 00:32:11.936
engagement activities was really
around cooking and baking bread and

00:32:11.969 --> 00:32:18.266
helping community through their act
and their skills. Um. And that's

00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:23.946
something that because of culturally
and spatially, the culture is very

00:32:23.979 --> 00:32:28.236
different. Like, you know, my aunties
and uncles live kind of a distance

00:32:28.269 --> 00:32:36.269
away, um. Some are Catholic, some are
Christian, some are NAC, some are,

00:32:36.549 --> 00:32:44.549
you know, traditional Navajo, um, or
they're all 3 or 4. And so. Here, you

00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:51.065
know, you live close by, you see these
women often, whether it's a funeral

00:32:51.098 --> 00:32:54.906
or a ceremony or some something's
happening in the community where you

00:32:54.939 --> 00:32:59.387
will see them or work with them. So
usually like stories about how we take

00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:04.186
care of ourselves or just being with
women is usually around the oven or

00:33:04.219 --> 00:33:08.647
cooking or something like that. But
that was very attractive to me because

00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:13.486
I didn't grow up that way, um, because
my parents are divorced, um, my mom

00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:17.756
has a small family. I didn't have, I
wasn't around a lot of women all the

00:33:17.789 --> 00:33:23.246
time. I was usually by myself or with
my brother and sister, um, and

00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.206
there's challenges of having a blended
family anyway, you know, my my step

00:33:27.239 --> 00:33:31.085
siblings were in and out of our lives
because they were either mad or You

00:33:31.118 --> 00:33:35.535
know something like we just weren't
always all together all the time. But

00:33:35.568 --> 00:33:39.097
here, like, you know, there's specific
times of the year where we're

00:33:39.130 --> 00:33:43.377
always together, like feast day or
corn dance or, you know, there's a

00:33:43.410 --> 00:33:46.456
different specific activity that you
know you're going to be together to

00:33:46.489 --> 00:33:51.867
cook. So was your um Navajo language
different than your husband's

00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:57.065
language? It's very different. Oh
yeah, yeah. So the dialect is different.

00:33:57.098 --> 00:34:02.147
The how you pronounce things are
different. The culture of women is

00:34:02.180 --> 00:34:07.897
different. So In the Dane culture when
we introduce ourselves, we're

00:34:07.930 --> 00:34:12.095
saying, I was born for, so you're
going through your matrilineal heritage

00:34:12.128 --> 00:34:18.456
, explaining your clan system to
introduce who you are, who you're born

00:34:18.489 --> 00:34:22.416
for, who your grandmother is, and
where they live. So you have this kind

00:34:22.449 --> 00:34:27.977
of matriarchal history that you give
when you introduce yourself. Um, in

00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:35.967
the Pueblo culture, it's mostly
patriarchal men. So, um.

00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.467
I would say the feminists would
probably not like it so much because

00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:44.066
women's roles are very. Colonnistic in
the sense that you're in the

00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:51.577
kitchen, you're helpers, but I would
disagree with that. I feel like um.

00:34:51.610 --> 00:34:56.787
The Polo women are really strong, um,
in their beliefs, and they work

00:34:56.820 --> 00:35:01.247
really hard. But when something
happens in the community, you see everyone

00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:04.655
come together and they assume
different roles and they work really well

00:35:04.688 --> 00:35:09.086
together. It's more of a balance than
one person doing everything or one

00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:14.945
group of people doing everything. Um,
it's always nice for me to see that.

00:35:14.978 --> 00:35:19.135
Whereas in the Dana culture, um
there's a lot of differences with death

00:35:19.168 --> 00:35:25.345
and birth, whereas a pueblo, it's
different, right? Um because death for

00:35:25.378 --> 00:35:28.865
them is something they celebrate and
they have their way of taking care of

00:35:28.898 --> 00:35:33.655
their community members who've passed
on, whereas like we don't want

00:35:33.688 --> 00:35:36.546
anything to do with death. we can't be
in a room with someone who's passed

00:35:36.579 --> 00:35:40.385
away. We have to leave. Somebody else
needs to take care of it. It's like

00:35:40.418 --> 00:35:45.486
a taboo. It can make you sick. So how
would you introduce yourself in the

00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:51.066
Pueblo culture? Uh, I would just be, I
mean, it, I don't speak Tewa, I

00:35:51.099 --> 00:35:56.945
speak a little bit, but um. You know,
there isn't an introduction.

00:35:56.978 --> 00:36:01.436
Um, versus like, you know, if I were
to go back home to, or if I were to

00:36:01.469 --> 00:36:04.836
meet another Dana person out in the
world, they'd want to know what my

00:36:04.869 --> 00:36:08.916
clan was. Whereas in the Pueblo
culture there's, I don't think there's,

00:36:08.949 --> 00:36:15.345
I've never met anybody who wants to be
introduced by their clan. Um, I I'm

00:36:15.378 --> 00:36:19.405
somewhat respectful of kind of how
they do things and they're kind of

00:36:19.438 --> 00:36:24.126
private about things. So

00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:30.655
I know some Tea, um. And some is used
for inside the house and some used

00:36:30.688 --> 00:36:38.287
for outside, um. But there isn't like
a specific way to introduce yourself.

00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:44.626
So, um, did your inclinations towards,
you know, participating in um

00:36:44.659 --> 00:36:50.026
helping women through birth and mid
midwifery. Like begin after that first

00:36:50.059 --> 00:36:56.436
birth, or did it emerge later on? It
emerged over time, so. Obviously I've

00:36:56.469 --> 00:37:04.469
always been interested in birth. Um,
really it was spurred by. Going when

00:37:04.869 --> 00:37:12.486
I finished my nursing degree, I was
pregnant with my. Second child. And um

00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:18.836
I started working as a nurse on labor
delivery. And I was probably 6 or 7

00:37:18.869 --> 00:37:25.227
months pregnant. And I was busy on my
feet all day long. And he was

00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:30.296
probably my biggest baby. Um, but I
was, I mean, I mean, the nurses were

00:37:30.329 --> 00:37:33.977
in awe of me because it's like,
Nicole, you were pregnant and you kept up

00:37:34.010 --> 00:37:38.537
with all of us and you weren't
complaining or tired. Like I was just busy

00:37:38.570 --> 00:37:42.936
working. Um, but that's how much I
loved what I was doing as I really

00:37:42.969 --> 00:37:46.416
loved working with women and making
them feel good and comfortable and

00:37:46.449 --> 00:37:51.175
listened to even as a nurse. What
actually pushed me to become a midwife

00:37:51.208 --> 00:37:58.626
was, um, I worked at IHS hospitals in
I, I can't say that. I worked at an

00:37:58.659 --> 00:38:03.896
IHS hospital, basically, uh, a medical
surgical and. I really didn't want

00:38:03.929 --> 00:38:07.736
to work there. Um, I was really happy
working at my labor and delivery job

00:38:07.769 --> 00:38:12.936
, but because I just had paid for my
education, I had to fulfill my

00:38:12.969 --> 00:38:17.537
obligation for them paying for my
education by providing them 2 years of

00:38:17.570 --> 00:38:25.570
my nursing experience as a job. Um,
And I have to tell you, going from

00:38:25.878 --> 00:38:30.646
this really nice labor and delivery
unit where people work together and

00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:36.836
you are expected to be nice to women
and It just was a very cohesive warm

00:38:36.869 --> 00:38:40.956
group. I went to this other space that
was dark and people weren't nice to

00:38:40.989 --> 00:38:45.836
each other and they complained and.
You know, I felt like some of the

00:38:45.869 --> 00:38:49.115
women didn't take pride in their work.
I felt like they were just there to

00:38:49.148 --> 00:38:55.186
retire. Um, and maybe I'm wrong, but
you know, I just didn't see that

00:38:55.219 --> 00:38:59.146
pride that I saw in the other nurses I
worked with there, with some of the

00:38:59.179 --> 00:39:07.179
nurses who worked there. And It was
really a disappointment for me to see.

00:39:07.179 --> 00:39:11.365
Then behave, the nurses behave this
way.

00:39:11.398 --> 00:39:18.166
And then to work with a community, my
community of people. Um,

00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:22.686
That wasn't the best care I feel like
they could have gotten. Um, an

00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:26.166
example would be because they they
knew I had labor and delivery

00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:29.885
experience and it's really only been a
year. I had been in a labor and

00:39:29.918 --> 00:39:36.206
delivery nurse. They had me do some
Um, shifts over at labor and delivery

00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:40.925
in the NHS hospital. And at the time
there was a lot of turmoil happening

00:39:40.958 --> 00:39:44.095
because the IHS hospital was going to
close their labor and delivery

00:39:44.128 --> 00:39:49.086
because they didn't have a high number
of women birthing there, um, and

00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:53.967
their OB doctor was going to retire
and they weren't going to replace him.

00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:57.006
There was a couple of nurse midwives
who work there and they were white

00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:02.977
women, um. That were caring for women,
or at least native women coming for

00:40:03.010 --> 00:40:09.816
care. There was one Navajo nurse I
worked with and she was very nice. And

00:40:09.849 --> 00:40:14.655
Uh, my first encounter with a midwife
there was I was admitting a patient

00:40:14.688 --> 00:40:19.217
who was in labor to one of the really
small rooms, and they were

00:40:19.250 --> 00:40:21.896
monitoring her on the fetal monitor
and I was going to check her blood

00:40:21.929 --> 00:40:26.017
pressure. So I put the blood pressure
cuff on her arm and this nurse

00:40:26.050 --> 00:40:31.646
midwife, who's an Anglo woman, was
staring me down the whole time, like so

00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.615
intimidating, staring me down as I'm
putting this blood pressure cuff on

00:40:34.648 --> 00:40:39.626
this patient and I'm like, why are you
Intimidating me like this is not

00:40:39.659 --> 00:40:44.276
appropriate. Um, and as I was getting
to leave, you know, she goes over

00:40:44.309 --> 00:40:48.405
there and takes the blood pressure
cuff off before I could. Like just very

00:40:48.438 --> 00:40:53.546
like aggressive intimidation and. At
that point I was like, I really don't

00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:58.057
want to work over here if this is how
these ladies are. Um, and I talked

00:40:58.090 --> 00:41:00.736
to this Navajo nurse who was there and
I said, Well, why do you work here

00:41:00.769 --> 00:41:04.655
? This place is so disappointing and
dreary and people are not nice to

00:41:04.688 --> 00:41:10.106
each other, so the morale is not good.
And she said, you know, I feel like

00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:14.247
there's definitely some racism that
goes on here. Between non-native

00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:18.727
nurses and providers and patients, but
I feel like these women need to see

00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:24.336
a native woman, a native nurse taking
care of them and so I stay. So I was

00:41:24.369 --> 00:41:29.925
like, OK. Um, there was another shift
I worked there with a a woman from

00:41:29.958 --> 00:41:34.416
my community who. Was having a baby,
her second baby, and having a

00:41:34.449 --> 00:41:41.916
C-section, um. And the story with her
is she had lost a baby. At a at this

00:41:41.949 --> 00:41:49.247
hospital in labor. And I'm not sure of
all the details, but she, the baby

00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:53.405
had died. And so she was coming back
to have another baby, and I was

00:41:53.438 --> 00:41:57.615
asking her why are you here to have
this baby? Like why can't you go

00:41:57.648 --> 00:42:00.287
someplace else? And she says, well, I
don't feel I could go I could go

00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.256
anywhere else. Um, and I was just
like, how awful to go to a place where

00:42:05.289 --> 00:42:10.706
your baby died, to not feel like you
have options. Um, and maybe it was at

00:42:10.739 --> 00:42:15.546
the fault of the provider. I don't
know. Like this to me it feels wrong.

00:42:15.579 --> 00:42:18.807
There was a labor and delivery nurse
who sounds like she was a nurse

00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:24.655
practitioner. Who had just the
nastiest attitude. She would put like 18

00:42:24.688 --> 00:42:32.688
gauge IVs in everybody, which is one
of the biggest. Um, Um, IVs to put in

00:42:32.769 --> 00:42:36.776
women. I mean, you really don't need a
big one to transfuse blood, but she

00:42:36.809 --> 00:42:39.776
would go above and beyond for that.
And she said, I'm afraid they're going

00:42:39.809 --> 00:42:43.856
to have a postpartum hemorrhage. I'm
just being safe. But I'm like, that's

00:42:43.889 --> 00:42:50.095
not right. But at one point during
working there, she definitely gave me a

00:42:50.128 --> 00:42:54.095
piece of her mind, and I was crying
and I was like, I'm done working here

00:42:54.128 --> 00:42:57.977
. I don't need to deal with people
like you. Like it was just one incident

00:42:58.010 --> 00:43:02.006
after another where people were just
very rude, intimidating. Even my

00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:05.727
nursing supervisor was intimidating.

00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.977
And so I was more than happy to give
up, give up my 2 years and then get

00:43:10.010 --> 00:43:14.416
out of there, um. But it was during
that time I approached one of the

00:43:14.449 --> 00:43:18.195
Anglo midwives there about midwifery
because I was applying. I had my

00:43:18.228 --> 00:43:22.376
application. And so I just asked her
casually, Well, do you consider is

00:43:22.409 --> 00:43:25.896
midwifery a mid-level? Like how would
you define that? And I was just

00:43:25.929 --> 00:43:30.017
curious. She didn't know I was
applying. I just had this question for her

00:43:30.050 --> 00:43:33.977
and she like totally went off on me.
We're not mid-level providers, we're

00:43:34.010 --> 00:43:39.006
healthcare providers, we're nurse
midwives, we're not physician extenders.

00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:42.247
So it was just right away lashing out
at me about just a question I was

00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:46.767
asking her, and I'm just like, jeez,
here's another opportunity where she

00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:51.227
could have maybe helped me with my
application, but she totally Like I'm

00:43:51.260 --> 00:43:58.456
like, I don't wanna talk to you then.
Um, So I Seeing my community, being

00:43:58.489 --> 00:44:02.166
careful like that, not having, feeling
like they have options like that

00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:06.095
really did something inside of me
because I was like, I can't I can't sit

00:44:06.128 --> 00:44:10.655
back and do nothing. We can't just
allow this to happen, you know, this is

00:44:10.688 --> 00:44:15.615
not OK. Um. And I had to really
struggle with my husband and his family

00:44:15.648 --> 00:44:19.497
about going back to school, because
again, we had these very traditional

00:44:19.530 --> 00:44:23.517
roles. I had just finished nursing
school, why do I want to go back to

00:44:23.550 --> 00:44:28.577
school. My kids are little, why do I
need to go to school now? Can I do it

00:44:28.610 --> 00:44:34.566
later? What about the kids? So I had a
lot of um Doubt pushed in my

00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:38.546
direction about my path, and I felt
really guilty because I wanted to be a

00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:43.896
good mom. And was I being a bad mom if
I decided to go back to school. So

00:44:43.929 --> 00:44:48.577
I held off not applying to nurse
midwifery school, and the following year

00:44:48.610 --> 00:44:52.816
, there were some more things
happening in our pueblo. I saw just some

00:44:52.849 --> 00:44:56.776
really heartache, hardship, people not
being taken care of again, and I

00:44:56.809 --> 00:45:00.135
was just like, I don't care what you
guys say, I'm going to go to school.

00:45:00.168 --> 00:45:05.236
This is just, this feels right to me.
Um, it probably took a good 6

00:45:05.269 --> 00:45:10.296
months before my family, my husband
and his family finally kind of

00:45:10.329 --> 00:45:15.396
recognized what I was doing and why,
and he definitely became more

00:45:15.429 --> 00:45:19.916
supportive of going back to school and
what I was doing and how much I

00:45:19.949 --> 00:45:26.227
really loved it. And he saw me change
completely to being kind of this

00:45:26.260 --> 00:45:31.267
lost mom trying to figure out what I'm
doing and if I'm going to do. If

00:45:31.300 --> 00:45:35.706
I'm doing it to everyone's
expectations, to being more in charge of who I

00:45:35.739 --> 00:45:39.747
am and what I'm doing, and I don't
care what anybody says, this is what I

00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:46.017
am going to do because this makes me
happy. And so he was very supportive

00:45:46.050 --> 00:45:49.126
after that.

00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:55.057
Um, so How was your, did you have uh
preeclampsia with your second birth?

00:45:55.090 --> 00:46:00.666
I didn't. My second birth, I had, so I
was working as a nurse and labor

00:46:00.699 --> 00:46:06.577
and delivery and um actually
correction, no, I was in nursing school,

00:46:06.610 --> 00:46:12.506
about to finish my last semester in
nursing school at UNM. And the nurses

00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:15.026
were more than happy that I was
pregnant because they get to feel my belly

00:46:15.059 --> 00:46:21.986
and all of that. Um, and we had this
woman.

00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:26.717
Come into our nursing class and show
us or teach us about hypno birthing,

00:46:26.750 --> 00:46:31.425
and I was like, hey, this is really
interesting hypno birthing. Um, prior

00:46:31.458 --> 00:46:35.477
to my pregnancy with him, I was not
happy with the first doctor I had seen

00:46:35.510 --> 00:46:40.155
, so I went to see different doctors
before I found the one I really liked.

00:46:40.188 --> 00:46:45.356
Um, at that point, I'd had two
miscarriages, um, before I got pregnant

00:46:45.389 --> 00:46:52.856
with my son Daniel. And after my
second miscarriage. Um, well, during my

00:46:52.889 --> 00:46:57.876
second miscarriage, I went to the ER
because I was bleeding so much that

00:46:57.909 --> 00:47:03.206
my husband had to take me to the
emergency room and they, um, There was

00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:06.967
this man there who was the doctor on
call, and he was so sweet. He was

00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:10.936
holding my hand. Everything's going to
be fine. We're going to go take you

00:47:10.969 --> 00:47:16.967
back to do a D&C, um, and my husband
was kind of waiting in a chair right

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.327
before they took me back and he said,
Hold on, you know, had had them stop

00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.695
the gurney before I went back to the
OR and made sure my husband gave me a

00:47:24.728 --> 00:47:28.517
hug and a kiss and reassured us both
that things were going to be fine.

00:47:28.550 --> 00:47:32.006
And after that I was like, what's this
doctor's name? This guy is exactly

00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:36.526
who I want to take care of me. And so
I probably went through two OB

00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.646
doctors before I found him. And so he
took care of me through my whole

00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:43.686
pregnancy. It was very lovely. He, he
gave me a handshake and kissed me on

00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:47.646
the cheek. It was like visiting my
grandpa every day, you know, very just

00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.166
very kind guy. Um, so it was a very
different pregnancy to begin with

00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.236
because there was communication, there
was a relationship. I felt good

00:47:55.269 --> 00:48:00.456
about who I was seeing for my care. I
was healthy. I wasn't like I don't

00:48:00.489 --> 00:48:04.227
feel like I gained too much weight,
um, I wasn't horribly sick with him in

00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:08.896
the beginning. Um, I was kind of
toying with the idea of having a home

00:48:08.929 --> 00:48:13.057
birth because with one of my
miscarriage, we, we did see a midwife in

00:48:13.090 --> 00:48:18.017
Albuquerque who actually I heard on
the radio before I got pregnant. She

00:48:18.050 --> 00:48:25.146
was doing um She was, how would I say?
She was talking about midwifery on

00:48:25.179 --> 00:48:30.425
the news, on the radio news, and she
was so intelligent. Like she was

00:48:30.458 --> 00:48:34.186
belting out research and
evidence-based care about for what she did and

00:48:34.219 --> 00:48:37.905
how she did it, and she had doctors
coming in challenging her, but she

00:48:37.938 --> 00:48:42.365
just knew her stuff. Like she was very
knowledgeable and I was like.

00:48:42.398 --> 00:48:47.247
Midwifery is pretty awesome. Um, but I
sought her out at a home birth

00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:51.327
practice in Albuquerque, but that
pregnancy ended a miscarriage. But after

00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:56.126
the first pregnancy, my family was
like, you know, don't deliver at home,

00:48:56.159 --> 00:49:00.396
you're not healthy enough, you need to
think about the safety of this baby

00:49:00.429 --> 00:49:08.006
and deliver in the hospital. So I was
like, OK, um. But Fast forwarding to

00:49:08.039 --> 00:49:12.686
my nursing education, um, I learned
about this hypno birthing and I was

00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:17.445
like, yeah, I want to do that. And so
I met with this woman later and she

00:49:17.478 --> 00:49:19.517
was like, Well, you're a little late
in your pregnancy, but we could

00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:23.126
probably still do it. So we paid for
it. It was kind of pricey, it was

00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:27.287
like $800 but I was like really
committed. I'm like, I really don't want

00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:31.405
pain medicine. Um, I really want to do
this natural, and I think this

00:49:31.438 --> 00:49:34.905
hypno birthing is going to work and my
husband's kind of like, OK. You

00:49:34.938 --> 00:49:38.057
know, kind of giving me the look like
you're crazy, but uh it's your baby

00:49:38.090 --> 00:49:42.776
, it's, let's just do it. And so he
did some exercises with me at home. We

00:49:42.809 --> 00:49:48.236
listened to music and she came and
talked to us and so. I went through

00:49:48.269 --> 00:49:52.217
this kind of fast forward hypno
birthing process. I remember even giving a

00:49:52.250 --> 00:49:55.595
folder of information to my doctor
because that was part of the process.

00:49:55.628 --> 00:49:58.356
He probably was rolling his eyes at me
because most doctors don't like to

00:49:58.389 --> 00:50:02.717
do that sort of thing, but I was like,
this is what I'm going to do. Um,

00:50:02.750 --> 00:50:06.836
and my my husband's family was kind of
like, are you hypno birthing? What

00:50:06.869 --> 00:50:10.115
is that about? And they were kind of
heckling me too because they thought

00:50:10.148 --> 00:50:13.356
it was a little bit out there, but I
didn't care. I was like, you know,

00:50:13.389 --> 00:50:18.106
it's going to work. And, and sure
enough it did. When I went into the

00:50:18.139 --> 00:50:23.506
hospital, I played my music, I had my
headphones on. I think there's even

00:50:23.539 --> 00:50:27.425
a picture of me with um on the
birthing ball kind of swaying back and

00:50:27.458 --> 00:50:32.425
forth, and the room is dim. Like I had
a little more control this time and

00:50:32.458 --> 00:50:37.126
I liked it. Um, my sister-in-law, my
mom, my mother-in-law was there. My

00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:41.095
mom didn't come. But it was a very
different space than it was the first

00:50:41.128 --> 00:50:46.247
time, and I realized I had to say
about what I wanted and didn't want. And

00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:50.787
they still put an IV in me, but it was
just very nice. I remember that

00:50:50.820 --> 00:50:57.327
like soft voice in my headphones was
like, Bree, you know, very calm. Your

00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:03.736
baby is opening and coming down. It
was just very calming. Um, and

00:51:03.769 --> 00:51:08.166
everyone thought I looked very
comfortable and collected and at some point

00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:11.845
I was like, OK, it's time to push. And
they were like, What? So they put

00:51:11.878 --> 00:51:16.396
me in bed and You know, I think 1 or 2
pushes and my son was out and they

00:51:16.429 --> 00:51:21.436
were just amazed that I was so calm
and collected and, you know, the

00:51:21.469 --> 00:51:24.477
contractions, I definitely felt them
and they're really hurt, but I feel

00:51:24.510 --> 00:51:29.717
like I could handle them. Like they're
manageable. I wasn't out of control.

00:51:29.750 --> 00:51:34.695
And after that, my sister-in-law even
wanted to borrow my tapes and like

00:51:34.728 --> 00:51:38.135
she saw me and wanted to do that for
herself, and I'm just like, yeah, it

00:51:38.168 --> 00:51:44.046
is possible to have a nice natural
birth the way I want. Were the

00:51:44.079 --> 00:51:47.287
contractions different when you went
through it naturally to the Pitocin?

00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:50.885
Can you think about? Yeah, yeah, they
were different. They had a pattern

00:51:50.918 --> 00:51:56.365
of their own. They were more
manageable, gradual, like definitely during

00:51:56.398 --> 00:52:00.756
the end like. I don't know, it kind of
reminds me of the I've been going

00:52:00.789 --> 00:52:05.126
be. Like that last contraction was
really, really uncomfortable. Like it

00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.967
hurt. I had tears in my eyes because
it was so bad, but it was time to

00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:14.445
push. Like I just remember like I
gotta push now. And that feeling of like

00:52:14.478 --> 00:52:18.736
needing to push, like it's just
undescribable. There's all this pressure

00:52:18.769 --> 00:52:23.675
in my bottom like it just, I just have
to push. And so everyone was pretty

00:52:23.708 --> 00:52:28.287
happy to have my son out, and he was a
big boy. He was 9 pound 4 ounce

00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:35.865
baby. Um, big guy, and I'm just like,
where did you fit? Did you tear? Um

00:52:35.898 --> 00:52:41.026
, I had a little tear, like, but not
like the first time. Yeah. So it was

00:52:41.059 --> 00:52:49.059
, it was an all-round better
experience and I really I, I, I wasn't sad

00:52:49.449 --> 00:52:53.256
about it. I felt really good about it.
And I was like, great, you know,

00:52:53.289 --> 00:52:57.217
everything went well and I had them in
the summer, like in May. So I had

00:52:57.250 --> 00:53:01.456
just finished my nursing program,
graduated and then I, you know, I had

00:53:01.489 --> 00:53:05.997
them in the summertime. That was nice.
Had you been using mineral oil or

00:53:06.030 --> 00:53:09.537
anything to kind of soften the
perineum? No, I wasn't, I didn't use

00:53:09.570 --> 00:53:13.756
anything. I wasn't that aware of my
body. Yeah, nobody even talked to me

00:53:13.789 --> 00:53:18.376
about that at the time, I don't think.
But it wasn't even the doctor who

00:53:18.409 --> 00:53:21.256
delivered. I mean, it wasn't the
doctor I've been seeing for my prenatal

00:53:21.289 --> 00:53:25.416
care who I, who delivered him or
assisted with the delivery with somebody

00:53:25.449 --> 00:53:32.456
else. But yeah, it was a really nice
delivery. And was it different in the

00:53:32.489 --> 00:53:37.135
fact that like after the baby was
born, you were, you know, not fainting,

00:53:37.168 --> 00:53:45.168
you were not on medication? Like was
your bonding experience different?

00:53:45.369 --> 00:53:53.276
I think I, I feel like I recovered
faster. Um, my husband, after I had him

00:53:53.309 --> 00:53:56.356
, cause there's a picture of me after
I had him, my hair is to the side,

00:53:56.389 --> 00:54:02.186
my makeup so smeared and um. So some
of the some of the child preparation

00:54:02.219 --> 00:54:07.106
courses talk about when women go
through transition like that phase of 8

00:54:07.139 --> 00:54:12.626
to 10 centimeters, like your sensory
is heightened. Smells, sounds, or

00:54:12.659 --> 00:54:18.227
you're really focused. And I remember
while I was in labor, my husband, I

00:54:18.260 --> 00:54:22.385
think he ate something and I was like
trying to tell him to get some gum,

00:54:22.418 --> 00:54:26.166
and he says, Oh, you want gum? I said,
no, for you. You, your breath

00:54:26.199 --> 00:54:30.747
smells. And he's like, OK. Um, but he
also, I told him, I said, I want

00:54:30.780 --> 00:54:35.626
barbecue for my dinner after I eat,
after I had the baby. So he had got me

00:54:35.659 --> 00:54:40.445
barbecue after I had my son. Um,
because I was starving because they

00:54:40.478 --> 00:54:44.405
starve you when you're having your
baby. But I felt great. Like the next

00:54:44.438 --> 00:54:48.967
day I was, I was able to move around.
I didn't feel tired. Um, he latched

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:53.006
onto the breast immediately after he
was born and just kind of camped out

00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:57.126
there for a couple of days. I never
had issues with breastfeeding in the

00:54:57.159 --> 00:55:00.967
sense that they didn't latch or I
didn't want to breastfeed. To me,

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:03.967
breastfeeding was always normal
because my mom breastfed my brother and

00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.566
sister. You know, she just lift up her
shirt and put him on the boob and

00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:14.497
that was normal to me and so. As my
kids, I breast fed all of them. I

00:55:14.530 --> 00:55:17.905
always, I didn't have enough milk for
them. I don't know if it's because

00:55:17.938 --> 00:55:23.026
they were really big babies or because
I was always busy working, but I

00:55:23.059 --> 00:55:27.925
just, you know, I always had to
supplement with formula. But yeah, I felt

00:55:27.958 --> 00:55:32.287
great after I had him. So it was a
really different experience from my

00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:35.807
first.

00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:40.086
Well that's so nice that you had that
follow-up experience that was, you

00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:44.606
know, a healthier one for you and
that, you know, it was more of what you

00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:47.307
, what you intended.

00:55:47.340 --> 00:55:52.517
Um, so in your position as a midwife,
what role do you see that you're

00:55:52.550 --> 00:55:56.845
playing in the the birth experience?
You know, um, Obviously you're

00:55:56.878 --> 00:56:00.517
keeping the women healthy, you're
monitoring things. Can you elaborate a

00:56:00.550 --> 00:56:06.267
little bit on that process? I would
say as a midwife with working, how I

00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:10.517
work with women during their
pregnancies is really just being really

00:56:10.550 --> 00:56:14.945
supportive. Like, like you said, like,
like I've talked to other women

00:56:14.978 --> 00:56:22.978
about, there's so many negative. Um,
How do I say people? Watching you as

00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:27.405
you become a mother, and it's not
always positive. You gain too much

00:56:27.438 --> 00:56:31.566
weight, you're eating the wrong foods.
But women already know what they

00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:36.327
need to do to be healthy. Um, it's
just a matter of them making that

00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:41.666
decision for themselves. So I try and
be more positive. You know, I have a

00:56:41.699 --> 00:56:44.945
lot of women who worry about how much
weight they're gaining with their

00:56:44.978 --> 00:56:48.526
pregnancy, or, oh my gosh, I didn't
take my prenatal vitamin yesterday

00:56:48.559 --> 00:56:54.506
because I felt bad, um, like they're
really afraid. Um, and it's really

00:56:54.539 --> 00:56:58.816
difficult to navigate today as a new
mom because there's so much

00:56:58.849 --> 00:57:02.135
information out there. Like if you
were to Google something, everyone's

00:57:02.168 --> 00:57:06.646
got cancer and everybody's dying. Or,
oh my gosh, this is a C-section

00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:11.296
situation. Like they're just really
not fed good information sometimes.

00:57:11.329 --> 00:57:15.287
And so part of my work with them is to
navigate that with them. Like, well

00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:21.046
, this is a reliable source. This is
not a reliable source. Um, I also

00:57:21.079 --> 00:57:25.126
remember how traumatic my first birth
was, and I don't ever want anyone to

00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:30.747
come away from working with me feeling
like their birth was a traumatic.

00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:36.787
Um, I know that has a long term effect
on them. And so we do a lot of work

00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:41.546
at the very end talking about their
birth. Who is there? What does it look

00:57:41.579 --> 00:57:45.865
like? What does it smell like? What's
the worst case scenario? Um, and

00:57:45.898 --> 00:57:50.227
just really reassuring that that's
their space, they have control. If they

00:57:50.260 --> 00:57:54.106
don't want an IV, they can say no.
Like they have the power to do these

00:57:54.139 --> 00:57:59.006
things. I don't think a lot of women.
Know that they have that power when

00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:02.787
they go to the hospital because it's
just assumed that these are the

00:58:02.820 --> 00:58:06.606
policies. This is what we do, this is
how we do it every time. And I tell

00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:10.945
them, well, no, it's not really a
policy. The nurses are used to doing it

00:58:10.978 --> 00:58:14.986
one way, but it doesn't mean you can't
do it another way. And really if we

00:58:15.019 --> 00:58:18.267
choose to deviate from what they're
used to, you're actually teaching them

00:58:18.300 --> 00:58:21.385
another way and they're going to get
really comfortable with normal

00:58:21.418 --> 00:58:24.905
natural birth because they don't see
that very often. And they're like, oh

00:58:24.938 --> 00:58:30.727
, OK. Um, but I also know women go
into pregnancy and birth, well,

00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:35.586
specifically birth with some
assumptions that either I'm going to be there

00:58:35.619 --> 00:58:42.006
the whole time, or it's going to be
fast, like on TV, um, so I try my best

00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:45.727
to talk through those things so that
they don't have those assumptions and

00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:51.175
they're more prepared for what it
could be like or what it is like. Um.

00:58:51.208 --> 00:58:57.896
Because I'm also a sexual abuse
survivor. I know those feelings of being

00:58:57.929 --> 00:59:03.066
not in control of my body. When those
things happen to me as a child, like

00:59:03.099 --> 00:59:06.345
those things can also contribute to
women's experience when they're

00:59:06.378 --> 00:59:11.756
pregnant. Um, and so I'm really
thoughtful about working with those women

00:59:11.789 --> 00:59:16.077
who had been sexually abused or raped
at some point because those feelings

00:59:16.110 --> 00:59:22.727
of being not in control come back when
you're pregnant. And so, um.

00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:25.695
You know, again, we talk through
what's the worst case scenario that could

00:59:25.728 --> 00:59:31.026
happen. And navigating all of the
tests and the ultrasounds and the

00:59:31.059 --> 00:59:37.497
necessity for all of it or not, um. So
it's, you know, it's really just, I

00:59:37.530 --> 00:59:42.577
feel like a guide and just someone who
helps them feel good about

00:59:42.610 --> 00:59:48.606
themselves. Um, I definitely feel it's
challenging for me because of the

00:59:48.639 --> 00:59:56.639
The word midwife has a lot of. Things
attached to it depending on Who is

00:59:57.889 --> 01:00:02.626
pushing the midwifery movement
forward. So even though historically

01:00:02.659 --> 01:00:08.057
midwifery has always been our on our
Native American communities.

01:00:08.090 --> 01:00:13.155
Some of the understanding about that
person and their role in our native

01:00:13.188 --> 01:00:19.615
communities has kind of. Not been
talked about like it used to be. Um And

01:00:19.648 --> 01:00:23.217
then you have this very western
influence of midwifery, which is the anime

01:00:23.250 --> 01:00:28.316
Gaskin, you know. A lot of women
talked to me about spiritual midwifery

01:00:28.349 --> 01:00:32.037
that she wrote, and I'm like I've
never read her stuff. I didn't even know

01:00:32.070 --> 01:00:37.916
who she was when I became a midwife.
Um, and so there's assumption that.

01:00:37.949 --> 01:00:42.836
Because I'm a midwife and I'm working
with women in the hospital that I'm

01:00:42.869 --> 01:00:47.276
very like natural, like I have this
natural knowledge of herbs and that,

01:00:47.309 --> 01:00:53.606
you know, I'm really against.
Epidurals or I'm against fetal testing or

01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:59.595
ultrasounds, blood test, which is not
true. Um, and then you have this

01:00:59.628 --> 01:01:04.675
other part of midwifery where it's
very professional and licensed,

01:01:04.708 --> 01:01:11.186
polished. We are, we are a profession
of polished, educated women who work

01:01:11.219 --> 01:01:15.717
with women during not just their
pregnancy, but through the many changes

01:01:15.750 --> 01:01:20.155
in their lifespan and that we are
skilled and educated to take care of

01:01:20.188 --> 01:01:25.006
these issues as they come up. So
there's that part of it too. Um, so it's

01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:28.646
really hard sometimes when I have a
woman who wants this very natural

01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:32.646
normal birth and maybe she has some
medical issues that wouldn't allow

01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:37.327
certain things and I have to tell her,
you know, because of this, you

01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:40.327
probably should get extra testing or
you probably should get genetic

01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:44.247
testing done because you are at risk
because of these things. And some

01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:48.206
women get mad. They're like, you know,
I, you know, they assumed I was a

01:01:48.239 --> 01:01:52.606
midwife and I was going to agree with
them, but you know. It's a, it's a

01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:56.845
fine balance. I can't. You don't come
to me because I agree with you. You

01:01:56.878 --> 01:02:01.546
come to me because I'm knowledgeable
on these things and I'm, it's my.

01:02:01.579 --> 01:02:07.925
It's my job to be truthful with you
and give unbiased information. And

01:02:07.958 --> 01:02:12.227
sometimes they want to hear it and
sometimes they don't. Do you think the

01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:17.865
um practice of having a midwife
involved in the birth process is um

01:02:17.898 --> 01:02:22.747
becoming more common or is it still uh
uh like a very small percentage of

01:02:22.780 --> 01:02:29.296
women that Are you thinking like in
like in the hospital that you work in

01:02:29.329 --> 01:02:33.175
the area that you're in. So the, the
hospital I work, there's always been

01:02:33.208 --> 01:02:37.557
midwives. Always. When I worked as a
nurse, there was a midwife there.

01:02:37.590 --> 01:02:40.416
Before I was a nurse, there was a
group of midwives. So there's just been

01:02:40.449 --> 01:02:45.736
a flux of midwives. For a short time
while I was finishing school, there

01:02:45.769 --> 01:02:52.135
was not a midwife there. um, and so.
When I went back to work in Los

01:02:52.168 --> 01:02:57.206
Alamos, there was a history of
midwifery in the community. There's also a

01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:02.577
lot of women who birth at home with um
home birth midwives, and so I

01:03:02.610 --> 01:03:06.655
really support homebirth. So it was
really nice to have this kind of

01:03:06.688 --> 01:03:11.296
community of women already who support
midwifery. Um, or they've been

01:03:11.329 --> 01:03:15.497
someplace where they've gotten care by
a midwife.

01:03:15.530 --> 01:03:19.816
Like the um, in another state or
whatever, but New Mexico in general is a

01:03:19.849 --> 01:03:24.885
very midwifery friend friendly state.
Um, there's not as many midwives out

01:03:24.918 --> 01:03:28.827
of Albuquerque.

01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:35.905
As um In some places, so like. I'm the
only nurse midwife in Los Alamos,

01:03:35.938 --> 01:03:41.467
and Presbyterian and Espanola or
Espanola Hospital, there's no there's no

01:03:41.500 --> 01:03:45.506
midwives there. Um, in Taos, there's
some midwives who birth in the

01:03:45.539 --> 01:03:52.586
hospital and I believe birth with
women in a birth center. um Las Vegas,

01:03:52.619 --> 01:03:56.267
there are a group of midwives, but the
hospital closed. I mean, their

01:03:56.300 --> 01:03:59.586
labor and delivery closed, and so
those women have to go to Santa Fe to

01:03:59.619 --> 01:04:04.546
have their baby. Um, Santa Fe has
quite a few midwives who are home birth

01:04:04.579 --> 01:04:09.896
in hospital certified nurse midwives.
But I feel like I do work in

01:04:09.929 --> 01:04:14.095
somewhat of a provider shortage area
for women because I get women from

01:04:14.128 --> 01:04:19.057
Cuba and from, you know, always
sometimes up to the Colorado border to

01:04:19.090 --> 01:04:22.936
come see me for care because there's
no midwife up that way, or even a

01:04:22.969 --> 01:04:28.977
hospital close enough to get to.

01:04:29.010 --> 01:04:32.796
So you have 3 children. So do you want
to talk about the third birth? My

01:04:32.829 --> 01:04:38.376
3rd pregnancy, this is the one I was
working as a nurse. Um, he was really

01:04:38.409 --> 01:04:42.936
a surprise. I didn't think we had just
moved into our house in San Defonso

01:04:42.969 --> 01:04:46.376
Pablo, and

01:04:46.409 --> 01:04:49.456
I have to honestly say that the moment
I was pregnant with each of them, I

01:04:49.489 --> 01:04:54.175
knew it. Like my body temperature went
up. I felt like I had the flu. I

01:04:54.208 --> 01:04:57.736
just didn't feel good and I was just
thinking, I bet you I'm pregnant. Um

01:04:57.769 --> 01:05:01.896
, And I took the pregnancy test and it
was positive, but it was really

01:05:01.929 --> 01:05:06.046
early. Um, and so I didn't really want
to be excited about it because I'd

01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:12.385
had 3 miscarriages already and I
wasn't ready to tell anybody and. I think

01:05:12.418 --> 01:05:16.787
this is a normal thing that women do
when you had so many miscarriages.

01:05:16.820 --> 01:05:19.706
You're cautious, you're excited,
you're somewhat optimistic, but you're

01:05:19.739 --> 01:05:22.695
like, Well, I'm not going to get
attached until it's past a certain point

01:05:22.728 --> 01:05:27.146
and I know this is really going to
stay. And so it was like that with him.

01:05:27.179 --> 01:05:33.666
And you know, I was nauseous with him
and exhausted and working as a

01:05:33.699 --> 01:05:40.077
nurse, but I didn't, it wasn't like
bedridden sick type thing. Um, And I

01:05:40.110 --> 01:05:42.517
remember telling my husband, you know,
we're pregnant, and he's like,

01:05:42.550 --> 01:05:46.037
Great. And I said, Well, let's see
what happens. You know I've had 3

01:05:46.070 --> 01:05:48.526
miscarriages. I don't know what this
one's going to be like, so we'll

01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:54.517
we'll just see what happens. And I got
past the 12 weeks and the 13 weeks

01:05:54.550 --> 01:05:58.956
and the 14 weeks, and I was like, OK,
but he's going to stay. But it was

01:05:58.989 --> 01:06:03.796
definitely a lot sooner than I would
have liked because my son Daniel had

01:06:03.829 --> 01:06:09.006
just been born um like a year before,
or almost a year before. So it's

01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:16.845
really closely spaced pregnancies. Um,
And I went through a pregnancy

01:06:16.878 --> 01:06:20.816
healthy, didn't have a lot of weight
gain, but I also worked a lot in Los

01:06:20.849 --> 01:06:25.845
Alamos as a labor and delivery nurse,
and I hardly ate and I I just was

01:06:25.878 --> 01:06:31.206
just really busy. And before I moved
here, I had already connected with a

01:06:31.239 --> 01:06:36.287
doctor in Santa Fe and had planned to
have my baby in Santa Fe, but he

01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:43.986
kept to like having this false labor
pattern at the very end. And He, I

01:06:44.019 --> 01:06:48.546
would be because we would go walking
in the Pueblo. Um, all of us would go

01:06:48.579 --> 01:06:52.365
out with our strollers and we'd walk,
my husband and I. But he would do

01:06:52.398 --> 01:06:56.546
this like I'd have these contractions
and I'm like, OK, it's time. With my

01:06:56.579 --> 01:06:59.986
other two pregnancies, I never had
this false labor. Like once labor

01:07:00.019 --> 01:07:05.106
started, I, I had a baby, but not for
David. Like it was a day of

01:07:05.139 --> 01:07:07.865
contractions and then they would stop
and a day of contractions and they

01:07:07.898 --> 01:07:11.977
would stop. And it's like all these
false alarms cause we had to figure

01:07:12.010 --> 01:07:15.385
out who was going to watch our other
two if we went to the hospital. And

01:07:15.418 --> 01:07:21.666
my mother-in-law wanted to be there.
Um, and so we had to always like put

01:07:21.699 --> 01:07:26.666
the people on red alert that maybe
it's today and ended up not happening

01:07:26.699 --> 01:07:30.787
until finally, you know, in the middle
of the night, probably around 3 in

01:07:30.820 --> 01:07:34.106
the morning, I was sleeping and I
could feel these contractions starting

01:07:34.139 --> 01:07:38.425
to get strong and I was like, Oh,
maybe it's now. And I remember walking

01:07:38.458 --> 01:07:41.945
into our living room and just kind of
walking to see how these

01:07:41.978 --> 01:07:44.865
contractions, if they were real, if
they were getting stronger, and they

01:07:44.898 --> 01:07:48.736
were getting pretty strong. I had to
Kind of lean over something and

01:07:48.769 --> 01:07:53.006
breathe through it before it ended.
And that's when I finally was telling

01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:56.365
, I went to get my husband. I was
like, OK, it's time, these contractions

01:07:56.398 --> 01:08:00.416
are getting pretty strong. Between
contractions, I was fine. I was talking

01:08:00.449 --> 01:08:07.066
, smiling, but with a contraction, oh,
I was not happy. So, um, a neighbor

01:08:07.099 --> 01:08:11.206
actually came and got our kids and my
husband and I went to the hospital

01:08:11.239 --> 01:08:16.836
and. And it was funny cause they have
a triage and um they took me up from

01:08:16.869 --> 01:08:22.196
the emergency room in a chair. And you
know I was talking, smiling, and

01:08:22.229 --> 01:08:25.756
then I get a contraction and then I
wouldn't talk. And then I got to

01:08:25.789 --> 01:08:28.305
triage and she's looking at me and I
already know what she's thinking.

01:08:28.338 --> 01:08:30.876
She's like, Oh, she's not in labor,
because that's what I would say as a

01:08:30.909 --> 01:08:35.237
labor and delivery nurse. You're too
happy, you're smiling. This isn't

01:08:35.270 --> 01:08:39.717
quite labor yet. And I was like, Nope,
this is labor. Like this is the

01:08:39.750 --> 01:08:44.196
real thing. So she was kind of being
lackadaisy with me. She put me in a

01:08:44.229 --> 01:08:47.487
triage room, was kind of taking her
time. And then she checked me and she

01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:52.607
looks at me, she says, you're 6.5
centimeters. And I was like, I knew it.

01:08:52.640 --> 01:08:59.376
So they, they put me back in a room
right away and they put an IV in. Um,

01:08:59.409 --> 01:09:05.885
And the doctor from the night shift
was there and I hadn't quite made a

01:09:05.918 --> 01:09:09.496
plan. I wasn't as well thought out as
my second. I just wanted to have a

01:09:09.529 --> 01:09:15.345
baby. And she was, she came in with
the nurses and was like, OK, we're

01:09:15.378 --> 01:09:20.506
gonna break a bag of water. And I'm
like, why? She's she's, and I said I

01:09:20.539 --> 01:09:23.987
don't want my bag of water broken
cause I knew it would make my attraction

01:09:24.020 --> 01:09:27.826
stronger. But she was like, What do
you mean you don't want your bag of

01:09:27.859 --> 01:09:33.067
water broken? I'm like, I don't want
anything done. I just want to labor.

01:09:33.100 --> 01:09:35.946
So she was kind of talking to her
nurse, looking at them like, Is this

01:09:35.979 --> 01:09:40.206
woman crazy? She doesn't want her bag
of water broken. Like she doesn't,

01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:45.965
she really wasn't gonna ask me. She
was just gonna do it.

01:09:45.998 --> 01:09:49.916
We, we can pause, yeah, absolutely.

01:09:49.949 --> 01:09:53.987
They're already off, but it's fine.
But she was kind of really surprised

01:09:54.020 --> 01:09:59.956
that I was declining her her amniotomy
to not let her break my bag of

01:09:59.989 --> 01:10:03.717
water. But I felt good to say no. I
was like, Oh, she can't come just

01:10:03.750 --> 01:10:08.086
break my bag of water because she
feels like it. Um, we're just trying to

01:10:08.119 --> 01:10:11.937
speed it up. I think, I think this
doctor was trying to speed it up, but I

01:10:11.970 --> 01:10:15.107
didn't know that. It just, I just
don't understand why she just came in

01:10:15.140 --> 01:10:20.515
and assumed she was gonna break my bag
of water, um. But after she left,

01:10:20.548 --> 01:10:25.555
um, I labored some more and it was
probably maybe 7 or 8, and they were

01:10:25.588 --> 01:10:29.717
getting pretty intense. And then I
just was like, you know what? I don't

01:10:29.750 --> 01:10:33.647
want to feel this. I just want to have
a baby. I want my epidural. So I

01:10:33.680 --> 01:10:36.675
asked for epidural. My husband's like,
Are you sure? I think you can do

01:10:36.708 --> 01:10:40.086
this and I'm like, no, I just, I just
want to have my baby. I don't, it

01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:44.925
doesn't really matter to me. So the
anesthesiologist came and he put an IV

01:10:44.958 --> 01:10:48.987
in my my hand and it didn't work, so
they put another one in. And I

01:10:49.020 --> 01:10:52.897
remember them like feeling pressure on
my back as they put the needle in.

01:10:52.930 --> 01:10:57.555
And I got somewhat comfortable, but
the epidural wasn't that, it didn't

01:10:57.588 --> 01:11:02.036
work that well. I could still feel
lots of cramping down low. And then, um

01:11:02.069 --> 01:11:06.147
, And then my mother-in-law finally
came because she wanted to be there at

01:11:06.180 --> 01:11:12.786
the birth. It was probably. Probably
around maybe 10 o'clock. And finally

01:11:12.819 --> 01:11:16.866
I was, I felt this really bad
contraction again and my husband's on one,

01:11:16.899 --> 01:11:19.546
on my right side and my
mother-in-law's on my left side and they're

01:11:19.579 --> 01:11:23.626
holding my hand and like I got tears
in my eyes because it was so painful.

01:11:23.659 --> 01:11:28.406
And then I was like, I got to push
now. And, and so they call the nurse

01:11:28.439 --> 01:11:34.256
in and I'm pushing without them asking
me to push. And I pushed and the

01:11:34.289 --> 01:11:38.055
nurse is like, OK, stop pushing
because the head was just coming. So the

01:11:38.088 --> 01:11:41.586
doctor came in really quick and it was
a different doctor. And she put her

01:11:41.619 --> 01:11:45.737
gloves on and I probably two pushes my
son was out and he was, he was

01:11:45.770 --> 01:11:49.897
small. He was like a 7 pounder. Just
it's like I could have sneezed and he

01:11:49.930 --> 01:11:53.576
would have came out because he was a
lot smaller than my other two. But it

01:11:53.609 --> 01:11:58.616
was really easy. Um, he got on the
breast and, you know, it was just a

01:11:58.649 --> 01:12:03.687
really quick and easy delivery. It was
not like at all like my other two.

01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:06.496
Um, I think back and I'm like, man, I
could have probably done it without

01:12:06.529 --> 01:12:09.376
an epidural. It probably would have
been faster cause it probably stopped

01:12:09.409 --> 01:12:13.305
my contractions or kept them, made
them slower.

01:12:13.338 --> 01:12:18.476
Um, So it was, it was a really nice
delivery though, it was fast and

01:12:18.509 --> 01:12:24.326
within 2 days we went home and. My
kids, my boys are like 16 months apart

01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:29.675
and it was like having twins. So
everywhere I went, it was like somebody's

01:12:29.708 --> 01:12:34.765
strapped into the car seat, one wants
to run away. Like that for me was

01:12:34.798 --> 01:12:39.696
like, OK, I'm done having kids. But I
also really was interested in

01:12:39.729 --> 01:12:43.765
becoming a midwife at that point and I
knew if I had more kids, I wouldn't

01:12:43.798 --> 01:12:49.826
be able to do that. So I chose to have
a tubal,

01:12:49.859 --> 01:12:53.857
um, and I I didn't quite consult my
husband. I just said, this is what I

01:12:53.890 --> 01:12:57.296
want to do, and he's like, Are you
sure? Isn't there something else? I'm

01:12:57.329 --> 01:13:00.777
like, Nope, I don't want to have any
more kids. And he was kind of

01:13:00.810 --> 01:13:04.135
bothered that I didn't make him part
of the decision, but I was like, it's

01:13:04.168 --> 01:13:12.095
my body. I get to make that decision.
But we, you know, my kids have, I, I

01:13:12.128 --> 01:13:16.015
was that mom for many years going to
the grocery store where I had like a

01:13:16.048 --> 01:13:20.006
car seat and two toddlers in the in
the stroller trying to, I mean in the

01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:24.496
car in a shopping cart trying to go
grocery shopping. Like that was, that

01:13:24.529 --> 01:13:28.696
was me. I mean, I would take them
places to eat or by myself and it was

01:13:28.729 --> 01:13:31.906
tough.

01:13:31.939 --> 01:13:35.536
Is when you reflect back on those
through through birth and your

01:13:35.569 --> 01:13:40.937
experience birthing, um, do you have
any word or phrasing of words that

01:13:40.970 --> 01:13:45.536
kind of um reflects that experience to
you? I know they were very nuanced

01:13:45.569 --> 01:13:49.696
and different experiences, but, um,
you know, there's obviously things

01:13:49.729 --> 01:13:54.055
that are similar, you're giving birth,
but um, is there anything that um.

01:13:54.088 --> 01:13:57.296
Like I said, a word or phrasing of
words that, you know, kind of

01:13:57.329 --> 01:14:01.857
summarizes that for you, summarizes
the experience of of giving birth to

01:14:01.890 --> 01:14:08.175
your children. It's a hard question,
but we're we um organize the stories

01:14:08.208 --> 01:14:12.487
and themes, and so it's a way of kind
of like seeing if you already kind

01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:17.796
of have a theme in mind, you know.

01:14:17.829 --> 01:14:21.805
I don't know, I think I would say
transformation.

01:14:21.838 --> 01:14:28.006
For all of my kids, I definitely.

01:14:28.039 --> 01:14:32.647
Hold on. Hey, Kansas, we're we're
recording, so any little noise in the

01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:36.027
background, they're gonna hear it.
Yeah, can you? We're almost done now

01:14:36.060 --> 01:14:43.876
and then I and then you can come back
in.

01:14:43.909 --> 01:14:48.956
I think she's gonna close the door.

01:14:48.989 --> 01:14:52.265
Maybe not. Um,

01:14:52.298 --> 01:14:57.456
There he is. Yeah, I would say
transformation would be a big theme for my

01:14:57.489 --> 01:15:02.496
kids. Like I said, I came into
motherhood not first, not wanting to get

01:15:02.529 --> 01:15:08.046
married, right? I was going to be this
career woman. And I'm married and

01:15:08.079 --> 01:15:13.357
something I'm having kids unplanned
but happy about it and really coming

01:15:13.390 --> 01:15:18.555
into myself as a woman, as a mom, with
my becoming a mom with each of

01:15:18.588 --> 01:15:23.916
their pregnancies. Definitely being
really challenged by family and

01:15:23.949 --> 01:15:29.317
perceptions about my role of being a
woman and a mom, um, and challenged

01:15:29.350 --> 01:15:33.726
in a in a in a way that

01:15:33.759 --> 01:15:38.687
That I've, I was, I've been forced to
kind of hold my ground, you know,

01:15:38.720 --> 01:15:45.506
who am I? What am I about, um. And
being OK with being myself, if even if

01:15:45.539 --> 01:15:51.126
nobody agrees with me. Um, I feel like
the kids have really brought out

01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:57.595
that mama bear in me, you know, like
I'm very protective of them, um. But

01:15:57.628 --> 01:16:01.196
over the years, like I've just,
there've been little things that they've

01:16:01.229 --> 01:16:09.229
done that have just been sorry.

01:16:15.369 --> 01:16:20.857
I guess the word is a blessing.

01:16:20.890 --> 01:16:25.666
I mean, it's really easy to. Get
caught up when they're babies and feel

01:16:25.699 --> 01:16:30.385
some resentment that you're tired and
you can't take a shower, or you're

01:16:30.418 --> 01:16:33.147
always responsible for them, or you
can't go to the restaurant because

01:16:33.180 --> 01:16:36.696
they're they're crying or making too
much noise, or they want to get down

01:16:36.729 --> 01:16:42.156
and play with stuff. But it's
interesting as they get older, like you

01:16:42.189 --> 01:16:47.006
really get a sense of who they are.
And they really enjoy spending time

01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:51.777
with you and. Wanna do things
together. It's such a, it's almost like a

01:16:51.810 --> 01:16:59.810
role a role reversal. Um, And they
definitely keep me young. Like they all

01:17:00.088 --> 01:17:04.055
have their own little personality and
pull me into things that maybe

01:17:04.088 --> 01:17:11.906
wouldn't do. Um, But more or less make
me more relaxed and don't not to

01:17:11.939 --> 01:17:16.777
take life so serious. Like my son will
say, let's watch this show together

01:17:16.810 --> 01:17:22.296
, and he likes to really cuddle with
me. And my other one, you know, he's

01:17:22.329 --> 01:17:26.536
still very Daniel, still very
childlike and likes to go watch, you know,

01:17:26.569 --> 01:17:31.376
he's 12, so he'll go watch like kids'
cartoons still, and he's still into

01:17:31.409 --> 01:17:37.737
that. And my daughter, you know, she's
15. She likes to go to the spa and

01:17:37.770 --> 01:17:42.456
we listen to the same music and we
share clothes and I don't think anybody

01:17:42.489 --> 01:17:47.897
ever tells you that that could be the
future when you have these kids and

01:17:47.930 --> 01:17:53.925
you're giving up so much of yourself
in the beginning, like it just I

01:17:53.958 --> 01:17:57.076
think that's really unexpected.

01:17:57.109 --> 01:18:00.836
And you know, in my twenties, I
probably wouldn't be baking bread and

01:18:00.869 --> 01:18:05.437
making jam and maybe I resented that
because that was a female role I

01:18:05.470 --> 01:18:09.817
didn't quite identify with and. I
don't know. Now I really enjoy it and it

01:18:09.850 --> 01:18:15.906
feels good to be home and. You know,
there's so many more awful and

01:18:15.939 --> 01:18:21.897
challenging things in this world that.
To build this little cocoon of like

01:18:21.930 --> 01:18:27.817
home like that's something that I'm
responsible for. And some of the same

01:18:27.850 --> 01:18:33.536
things my mom did for me growing up
like cedaring off my kids with our

01:18:33.569 --> 01:18:38.746
feather and our. Her sage, to bless
her home and to bless them. Like those

01:18:38.779 --> 01:18:41.906
are the things I do with them now. So
they're going to associate those

01:18:41.939 --> 01:18:46.147
smells and acts with their childhood
and hopefully carry it on with their

01:18:46.180 --> 01:18:52.845
kids. And so, even though their
childhood is going to be different and not

01:18:52.878 --> 01:18:56.765
playing in the river and doing all the
things that I did, like you know I

01:18:56.798 --> 01:19:01.726
have the responsibility to show them
things and experience things that I

01:19:01.759 --> 01:19:09.759
didn't, which is really nice. And You
know, I Uh, my big goal with them is

01:19:09.958 --> 01:19:15.586
just to be loving, caring children and
be respectful of people.

01:19:15.619 --> 01:19:21.067
Um, My only hope is that they find a
career or something that really

01:19:21.100 --> 01:19:26.595
inspires them and their passion. It
didn't matter what it is. So it feels

01:19:26.628 --> 01:19:30.156
good to me whenever I go visit with
their teachers that that's, you know

01:19:30.189 --> 01:19:32.756
what they say about my kids is they're
really well behaved and they're

01:19:32.789 --> 01:19:37.226
kind and they're helpful. And that's
the best I could ask. It's not so

01:19:37.259 --> 01:19:41.326
much about the grades or, you know,
that sort of thing. It's like what

01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:46.086
kind of people are they gonna be?

01:19:46.119 --> 01:19:50.726
Perfect, perfect ending line, don't
you think? Yeah, do you have any

01:19:50.759 --> 01:19:58.156
questions, Ashley? covered a lot of
ground. Yes, um. So good for you're a

01:19:58.189 --> 01:20:00.796
good speaker.

01:20:00.829 --> 01:20:04.456
There's so many interesting facets of
your story that I think it's gonna

01:20:04.489 --> 01:20:09.296
make it slightly challenging. But I'm
so this might be kind of delicate

01:20:09.329 --> 01:20:12.175
and it's OK if you don't want to talk
about it, but one thing that you're

01:20:12.208 --> 01:20:15.015
talking about that I think is really
fascinating could be really helpful

01:20:15.048 --> 01:20:19.456
for other people and something that we
haven't heard at all is this idea

01:20:19.489 --> 01:20:24.476
that you've been um a victim of sexual
assault and how that kind of trauma

01:20:24.509 --> 01:20:28.385
was revisited. Um, with pregnancy, I
don't know if that's something that

01:20:28.418 --> 01:20:33.555
you're willing to talk about your own
experience of having to revisit that

01:20:33.588 --> 01:20:38.187
just last night, actually one of our
speakers, um, she, she works with

01:20:38.220 --> 01:20:43.866
women of sexual assault and
trafficking and everything. She works as a

01:20:43.899 --> 01:20:48.416
counselor. Yeah, we actually need to
connect you we talked to her about

01:20:48.449 --> 01:20:53.946
you definitely wanted to contact,
yeah, you could definitely connect us.

01:20:53.979 --> 01:20:59.726
Um, You know, working through my
sexual abuse, and I want to be clear,

01:20:59.759 --> 01:21:03.876
it's not just, I think sexual abuse is
a very nice term. I mean it was

01:21:03.909 --> 01:21:10.166
rape. I was raped as a 5 year old, as
a teenager, I mean early teen, and

01:21:10.199 --> 01:21:16.006
then as a teenager at a party. Um, and
definitely that has impacted me as

01:21:16.039 --> 01:21:23.836
a woman in my life, not just as a
mother, but just my own self-worth and

01:21:23.869 --> 01:21:29.717
Definitely between the age of 20 and
30, as I was becoming a new mom, I

01:21:29.750 --> 01:21:34.675
was very much working through those
issues of anger, frustration with my

01:21:34.708 --> 01:21:42.296
family and With myself and with my
husband's family, um, and feeling

01:21:42.329 --> 01:21:48.015
worthy to be married to this wonderful
man who, you know, really has

01:21:48.048 --> 01:21:54.666
stayed by my side through my My own
journey of finding who I am. Um, I

01:21:54.699 --> 01:22:00.156
have to say I haven't always been so.
Kind to him because I've had my own

01:22:00.189 --> 01:22:08.189
issues that I've had to deal with. Um,
And Even as my role is of being a

01:22:08.409 --> 01:22:12.456
mother, like I, I have to say I
really.

01:22:12.489 --> 01:22:17.076
I really resented it in the beginning.
I, I feel like I was meant to do

01:22:17.109 --> 01:22:23.836
something else. You know, I'm a mom,
um, there's also some. Cultural

01:22:23.869 --> 01:22:27.796
connotations to being a mother.

01:22:27.829 --> 01:22:33.345
When I was growing up with my brother
and sister, um. People thought they

01:22:33.378 --> 01:22:40.147
were my children and. Because I grew
up in a border town, people. We're

01:22:40.180 --> 01:22:44.506
like, Oh, she's a teen, she's Native
American. Poor thing, she's having

01:22:44.539 --> 01:22:48.226
babies. She's not ever going to do
anything with her life. So that was

01:22:48.259 --> 01:22:53.866
kind of that kind of pride that I was
falling into this role of being your

01:22:53.899 --> 01:22:57.175
typical Dana woman who's not going to
do anything and it's going to have

01:22:57.208 --> 01:23:02.366
babies after babies after babies. And
I definitely feel like women who

01:23:02.399 --> 01:23:07.006
didn't know me, saw me with my kids
and assumed that I wasn't married or

01:23:07.039 --> 01:23:12.555
my kids are not well behaved. Um, but
there's this perceptions about who

01:23:12.588 --> 01:23:19.116
they are and who I was. Um, and so
part of. Going through that motherhood

01:23:19.149 --> 01:23:24.006
, being knowing my history was um.

01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:27.567
Kind of grieving that that childhood
that I didn't have and then I had to

01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:34.046
grow up really fast. You know, I
didn't have a 21 party. I had just had my

01:23:34.079 --> 01:23:38.006
baby, I had gotten married, didn't
have a bachelorette party when I got

01:23:38.039 --> 01:23:41.286
married. Like there's some milestones
that I missed out on because I had

01:23:41.319 --> 01:23:49.319
kids early, and I resented that. Um,
There is also some family, um.

01:23:49.779 --> 01:23:54.726
Disputes happening between myself and
my husband's sister. That was really

01:23:54.759 --> 01:24:00.067
not positive for me. I was around a
woman who was very negative and unkind

01:24:00.100 --> 01:24:04.706
to me and feeling like I had to deal
with that by myself, or everyone kind

01:24:04.739 --> 01:24:10.226
of allowed it. Kind of fit into this
whole like I'm not worthy to be

01:24:10.259 --> 01:24:14.796
married to this really nice man. And
that because I'm a mom, I'm supposed

01:24:14.829 --> 01:24:19.765
to not want things anymore, and that
the careers that I maybe had thought

01:24:19.798 --> 01:24:24.036
I was going to move forward with is
not attainable anymore because now I'm

01:24:24.069 --> 01:24:27.156
a mom. Like this is all I should care
about. This is all I'm ever going to

01:24:27.189 --> 01:24:31.067
be. And to me that was really
disappointing. Like for me, I felt

01:24:31.100 --> 01:24:35.546
disappointed in myself. Um,

01:24:35.579 --> 01:24:41.696
There's still pictures I look at, um.
From when my kids were babies that I

01:24:41.729 --> 01:24:45.095
looked really checked out. Like I'm
not really focused and I'm not really

01:24:45.128 --> 01:24:49.857
talking. And I remember those times
where I feel almost out of body, like

01:24:49.890 --> 01:24:53.737
, oh, I'm supposed to smile, so I'm
going to smile now, or, oh, I'm

01:24:53.770 --> 01:24:56.376
supposed to really enjoy this with my
kids, so I'm going to act like I'm

01:24:56.409 --> 01:25:00.015
having a good time, where my husband
could see that's what was happening

01:25:00.048 --> 01:25:04.506
and he would be like, you know, why
are you not enjoying this? And I felt

01:25:04.539 --> 01:25:09.586
resentful. Just like, why am I, am I
supposed to enjoy this? This is work.

01:25:09.619 --> 01:25:13.175
This is really hard. You know, why am
I supposed to smile through this?

01:25:13.208 --> 01:25:21.208
It feels like work. Um, And so My kids
really helped me want better for

01:25:22.668 --> 01:25:29.406
myself and to really fight for who I
am and what I am and to fight for

01:25:29.439 --> 01:25:32.836
what I want. Um.

01:25:32.869 --> 01:25:36.857
And midwifery school for me was part
of that transformation because I had

01:25:36.890 --> 01:25:43.515
to fight for it. And once I saw the
many options women had.

01:25:43.548 --> 01:25:48.555
It kind of made me reflect on what I
had with my kids and what had

01:25:48.588 --> 01:25:56.206
happened to me and. So it was like I
was able to feel like I had an

01:25:56.239 --> 01:26:01.866
identity outside of being a mom or
this poor woman who had kids too early

01:26:01.899 --> 01:26:08.706
, right. So I don't know if that makes
sense in regards to the to the

01:26:08.739 --> 01:26:15.317
abuse I experienced, um. It's
interesting that I chose this hypno birthing

01:26:15.350 --> 01:26:19.717
as one of my child preparation options
because I've heard midwives say

01:26:19.750 --> 01:26:25.476
this all the time like, well. The
hypno birthing allows moms to check out

01:26:25.509 --> 01:26:30.826
during their birth, during their
labor. And I'm like, Well, did it allow

01:26:30.859 --> 01:26:35.515
me to check out, which you do when
you've been raped. You check out. You

01:26:35.548 --> 01:26:39.237
go to another place while somebody's
doing something awful to your body.

01:26:39.270 --> 01:26:42.237
Like it's like you can do this to my
body, but you can't do this to my

01:26:42.270 --> 01:26:47.687
mind. I'm still who I am. Um, Did I
choose hypno birthing because that's

01:26:47.720 --> 01:26:51.446
what it did for me and I would say no.
I felt every one of those

01:26:51.479 --> 01:26:55.885
contractions. I was fully committed
and part of that decision making about

01:26:55.918 --> 01:27:02.326
my body and my birth. And You know,
it's, it's not true. I still felt

01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:07.265
everything. I just felt like I had
more control. And I remember that

01:27:07.298 --> 01:27:11.476
because when I work with women who've
been raped in their pregnancy, I

01:27:11.509 --> 01:27:17.366
know those feelings that they want
control. They didn't have control when

01:27:17.399 --> 01:27:21.805
this thing happened to them. And that
they want trust and building trust

01:27:21.838 --> 01:27:27.296
with them is really important. And an
example of that is I had a woman I

01:27:27.329 --> 01:27:32.126
worked with who had a really bad rape
history. She came into my office

01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:37.476
just shaking, and she had sweat on her
lip. And she first thing she said

01:27:37.509 --> 01:27:42.687
to me is, what are you going to do to
me? And I was like, oh, Uh, let's

01:27:42.720 --> 01:27:47.647
talk. So what I did is she sat in one
chair and I sat one below her. So we

01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:51.805
weren't at eye level, it was below.
And we start talking about what she

01:27:51.838 --> 01:27:56.076
was afraid of, what this was going to
look like, how I was going to work

01:27:56.109 --> 01:28:01.046
with her, that we would do this
together and that I wasn't going to do

01:28:01.079 --> 01:28:07.055
anything she didn't want to do. Um,
she calmed down afterward and we

01:28:07.088 --> 01:28:10.885
worked through her whole pregnancy and
the woman I saw at the beginning

01:28:10.918 --> 01:28:15.546
and the woman I saw at the end was
completely different. Like just very

01:28:15.579 --> 01:28:21.217
proud of herself. She felt very good
about her experience and you know I

01:28:21.250 --> 01:28:25.937
think about my experience and my birth
and my experience with my abuse.

01:28:25.970 --> 01:28:30.536
Like I know how good it feels to have
that courage and that strength to

01:28:30.569 --> 01:28:36.406
make those decisions. And to feel like
those are supported decisions. And

01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:40.647
that's what I try and work with women
now as a midwife because I know how

01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:46.515
important it is and If without it,
it's like, you know, I'm I'm really

01:28:46.548 --> 01:28:50.067
traumatizing them and I don't ever
want to do that. It's like I, I don't

01:28:50.100 --> 01:28:53.925
wanna be the rapist.

01:28:53.958 --> 01:28:59.265
Yeah, I think that was a really good,
a wonderful answer, yeah. Is there

01:28:59.298 --> 01:29:02.726
anything else you want to add before
we?

01:29:02.759 --> 01:29:07.798
Yeah, you're incredible. You did a
great job. I'm gonna hit stop.