So this is Forres Solis interviewing Sue Minsky
on June 20, 2016 at 5:01 p.m. So maybe start out by just telling us a
couple things so that we can make sure the audio is OK, that's fine or
fine. I that's fine. OK, OK, so take us back to the conception, you know,
yeah, was it planned? No, it was not planned, um, in fact, uh. I had just
gotten married and got pregnant immediately. And so, uh, I thought at that
time in 1960, that was natural. I mean, you didn't plan your births, you
just got married and had babies, and stayed at home and took care of them.
And so, uh, it was a bad pregnancy. I, first thing, I, I got sick, I mean
, morning sickness was common. And it was so cute because I had a dog that
would lay on my stomach, you know, when I'd have to lay on the floor and
put my legs up on a chair just to feel comfortable, and she would lay
across my stomach knowing that, and it was a small dog, so it was
comfortable. It was she kept my stummy warm, and that helped, and I
couldn't eat anything except I would take uh tortillas, small tortillas,
put them in the And the um Uh, it was toaster. And then spread canned
beans on them and eat tostadas. I could eat tostadas and eggs. That was
all I could eat without throwing up. It was miserable, and the problem
with it is that it never went away. It continued. I never became unsick,
and um and I had excessive saliva. I would walk around with a cup and have
to spit because if I kept swallowing, that would make the nausea worse.
And he couldn't give me anything for it, he said, and it was a specialist
for pregnancies, a very well-known doctor. And finally, uh, I went on, we
went on a trip, uh, with some friends out to North. A Scottsdale and there
there were no houses at that time and it was to a ruins.
And uh I was never feeling well, so I was uncomfortable in this tiny small
car that we had called a Renault, and during the day before, there had
been a storm, and the rains took part of the gravel road away, and we did
not realize this. And uh so the, the car dropped down at least 1 ft. And
when that did, my head bounced up, hit the top of the ceiling of the car,
and then back down to the seat. And it was such a, a terrific hit that I
was uncomfortable. My back hurt, everything hurt, and we got home, I
wasn't feeling good, so I went to bed, and during the night, I had to wake
up my husband because The the stomach was grotesque. It looked like some
outer space movie because the arms and legs of the baby were actually
coming out and to such a degree, 3 and 4 inches from my stomach, and I, it
was moving and it hurt, and um he just rolled over and said, ignore it.
And so the next day, I still didn't feel good, felt very bad. It was my
appointment, luckily, so I went in. And saw the doctor and um. Uh, he said
that things were, we would wait a week and see how things were going. Now
, to take you back a little bit backwards, um, because I was so ill, and
because, um, Of the saliva problem. I had been taking a pill to hold the
baby because he felt I was going to abort the baby, and I felt that this
pill was making me ill. And so I uh kept complaining about it, and I, that
was part of one of the problems. So finally, after this, he, he said, you
can stop taking the pill. And then uh the week went by, and I had to go in
again to see how the situation was. He says, well, I'm gonna break your
water and then we're gonna put you in the hospital. And um I thought, no,
I can't do that. My bassinet isn't finished. I had not finished my
bassinet and got the baby's room ready. And I, I, my parents were gonna go
on a trip to Mexico, and they'd be gone a month. I'd have to, you know, I
couldn't have my baby now. My mother was planning tomorrow to go to Mexico
, and I couldn't have my baby without my mother. And so I said, no, I have
to go home. I have to finish my bassinet. I can't have the baby now. And
he says, well, then you call me when it's time. I said, OK. So I went home
and during the night, I felt like, oh my gosh, I had to go to the bathroom
so bad. I had to have a bowel movement. And so I managed to get out,
struggle to get out of bed because I was so huge. I was skinny because I
couldn't eat, but I had this huge stomach that propelled out of my skin
out of the front of me. And so I went to the bathroom, only problem was it
was all blood. And I looked down because it seemed kind of strange. And so
I called my husband, he was asleep, and I called him, and he came in and I
said, call the doctor, and he did, and he said, oh my God, she's having
her baby get her into the hospital now. And so we got back into the
Renault and rushed to the hospital. And it was so funny because we had not
agreed on a name. And I said, it should be Andrew William Molinsky. And
during this ride, he had the radio on, and it was some song, I don't know
which one, I wish I could remember, but I can't remember the song. But he
said, this is a song I was listen to this. This is a song I was telling
you about. And I thought, oh my God, I'm in so much pain. You want me to
listen to a song? And he says, by the way, I decided the baby's name
should be Andrew Leonard. Because that was his name, Leonard was his name.
And so I agreed to everything. I just get me to the hospital. And so they
got me to the hospital, got me on a gurney, got me in the room, and the,
the doctor was nurse was there with a needle to numb me or do whatever,
and they said, no, there's no time, the baby's coming. So without any
medication, without anything, I had Andy. Only problem is I went out right
after the delivery. I can remember them saying, well, here comes the
afterbirth, and that's all I remember. I don't remember seeing my baby, I
don't remember anything. About 5 days later, without seeing my baby, and
everybody in the room at that time, there was, I think, 4 other women.
There were 5 of us in this room, having babies, and I remember uh Them all
getting to see their baby, except me. And they kept saying, you know, not
all babies are pretty. And I thought, oh, my baby would be pretty, you
know. And so finally I was became hysterical, cause I just knew my baby
was dead, and that's why they weren't bringing my baby to me. And so
finally they brought my baby to me. She walked into the room on it was all
covered with a blanket, except for the head. And I thought it was a doll.
And so if she turned and walked away, it would have been fine waiting for
my baby. Instead she handed it to me, and I thought was not real. The head
was huge. It had slit her eyes. Sorry, there was a fly on the mic and it
lighted on the mic. So um can you, I'm so sorry, can you go back to um.
When she handed it to you, she handed me the baby and uh the minute I
touched my baby, it became mine. All of a sudden that was OK. It was
beautiful. It had little slits for eyes, a little slit for a nose, and a
little slit for a mouth. Had no features. It was solid, swollen. And when
I opened up, and because I had to check the body, and count the toes,
count the fingers, and it was beautiful, except the skin was hanging off
the bones. The baby was so early. And, uh, but covering it up, it was
beautiful, but all my relatives would come in and say, we're so sorry, you
know, not all babies are born beautiful. I said, what are they talking
about? My baby's beautiful. And he's turned out to be the most beautiful,
handsome man you ever saw, and intelligent. He served in the Air Force and
um he's done wonderful things. He's married and has two little girls.
That was awesome. I mean, I don't think you're even need to edit anything.
That's the most seamless story I've ever heard. Can you tell us how far
along you were so that we know what early was? Were you like 7 months? I
was probably just beginning my 7th month and then do you know how much he
weighed or any of that kind of? Oh, he was long, he was really long and
the head weighed, uh, close to 7 pounds. Yeah, it was 6 something, but
close to 7 pounds. Yes, it was a big baby. He's 6'2 now. Yeah, he's 6'2.
He was a large boy, but he was skin and bone, just skin and bone. So were
they, um, feeding him formula for those? Oh no, I nursed. Oh my God, and I
was a small breasted woman and my breast became so huge I could not see
over I'm laying down. Now my hus I told my husband, go get the camera and
take a picture. I, I want to see what it looks like, you know, because I
couldn't see them. They were so big, I could not see the nipples. And they
, of course, uh, the first thing they did was try to get the baby to nurse
, and then they would bound me, they bound me up. So that the swelling or
whatever would go down because I was so huge and my father, he wouldn't
even come in the room. I mean it was, it was grotesque, they said you're
saying you were huge? Yes, my breasts were so huge I couldn't see over
them when I was laying down. They were, it was unbelievable. I wanted a
camera and take pictures, so they bound your breast. They bound my breast.
With just, and I know with it, yeah, with gauze around me, uh-huh, and I
nursed my baby uh for at least 3 months. And he had, the one thing he did
have, because the stomach, I guess, because of his early birth, had a
bubble in it. So it's called colic, and he cried, and so I would have to
sit up with him. He would have to be upright in order for him, he couldn't
lay down without crying the pain. And so we gave him a pacifier. I swore
I'd never do that, but I had to give him a pacifier. And I would, we got a
a bed, it was from Costco or someplace, I don't remember. I think that was
the name of the bed, and it was a low bed with netting for sides, but it
was right off the floor, and so I could get in the bed and sit in the bed
upright and hold him so that he wouldn't cry all night and I would sleep
like that. Um, at 3 months, he had the pacifier in his mouth, and he spit
it across the room, and that was the end of the colic, and it was the end
of the pacifier, and then he went on to a bottle and uh formula. Can you
talk a little bit about that era of having babies? Like what was standard
practice? Well, They didn't, they did not have um anything like they do
today. I mean, having uh the an early birth, they had the little beds they
would put them in, you know, that were monitored, but they had, I think,
you know, the medications and the knowledge uh wasn't there, and, uh, for
instance, I was torn. Instead of being cut because there was no time, uh,
I was torn by the baby coming out of the birthday head was so huge, it
tore me. And so, uh, they would during the days that I spent, they would
put my legs up in stirrups and then they would put a heat lamp on me to
help the healing. The only thing is it was a pole. On my, on my uterus and
a pull on my back would be in extreme pain, and they couldn't give me any
medic. All they had is painkillers that were extreme and that would dry up
my milk, that would, it would hurt the me from nursing, and I had to nurse
my baby. So I went through it, you know, the whole episode was, they said
, well, you can't remember your birth. So that was the one thing I
remember thinking as I was told that right away. Women do not remember
their birth, and that's how you can have so many births because you have
no remembrance of the pain. And so I thought, OK, I will then associate it
with something that would be painful, so I could say it was as bad as And
the closest thing I would come up with was Harry Carey.
And so, and I tell somebody, what's it like to have a baby? It's like
taking a knife and sticking in your stomach and turning it.
That's how I remember my births. I had 2 more. I lost 2 babies. There was
one, I became pregnant again. And uh because I became ill with the
medication to hold the baby again, I thought, I'm not going through this
again. So, and I, my appointment was for another 1 week or 2 weeks before
I'd see the doctor, but I just couldn't handle the illness and take care
of the other one, and it was um It was just 6 months after I had my baby
that I became pregnant. So, I could not, I couldn't be sick like that and
take care of Andy. So I stopped my medication, and then I would say maybe
3 days later, I remember feeling really sick to my stomach and going over
to see my parents and sitting in the chair, and I thought, oh, I better go
back to my apartment because I'm going to have a bowel movement. And so I
went back and I had the baby in the toilet. And uh there was the fetus.
They couldn't get me off the toilet, and all I kept doing is crying
because my baby, my baby, and um they told the doctor on the phone, we
can't get her off the toilet, please come into the hospital, please. I, I
couldn't, I couldn't get off the toilet because I was attached to my baby
and I would not leave. And finally, They, they, they, I had to go. They,
they did and there was no choice. And so they took the baby in a bottle, I
guess, and uh it was a little girl. And um so I lost that one. But we
named her Wendy. So that was my little girl and some day I'll see her in
heaven. Um, so then the, the second. The next time I was pregnant, uh, I
took my medication. But Andy was older, so I could adapt to it. He changed
it, and so after the 3 months, I wasn't sick anymore. And uh that was a
pretty good pregnancy. And when I had Andy, I reme or Kenny, it was Kenny
, my second son, and he was um
He was, if I hadn't, was awake, again, I was awake, but they did, they
were, there was enough time. It came so fast, but there was enough time to
cut me, and I did have some minor medication, but you still feel the pain.
And uh they picked the baby up and put it on my chest. He was red. He was
beat red and he had stark black hair, whereas Andy was bald. And if I
didn't, wasn't awake, and they showed me this baby, it wasn't my baby
because I was blonde, and my husband had sandy color hair, and here was
this black straight hair, and so, anyhow, he looked like an Indian, and so
I can remember them bringing the baby to me. And uh the little gal that
was there, she wasn't a nurse, she was a helper, and she put a pink bow in
his head, on his, in his hair, and, and brought him brought him in and
said, this is the prettiest little girl in the nurse in the nursery. And I
said, that little girl is my son. But, oh, he was beautiful. Oh my gosh,
she was beautiful. So that one, that one was OK. They're not quite 2 years
apart, because I became pregnant again. And so then the next uh loss of
the baby was really early in the early stage, and I can't even give you uh
why or when I was up in Payson, we lived in the valley, but my parents had
bought some property and and had a small cabin, and we were staying in the
cabin for the weekend with the two children, and I aborted, but it was
really early stages, and then I became pregnant again. Uh, that was about
4 years later, and, uh, again, uh, I was sick, so I knew immediately. Um,
actually, to tell you the truth, After
Uh, we had intercourse. If I was sick the next morning, I knew I was
pregnant. It happened that fast, immediately, and my body, uh, the doctor
finally told me, nature and God is trying to tell you something that it's
not natural for you to have a baby, because it's a foreign substance in my
body and it makes me sick and trying to get rid of it. So my body was not
equipped really to have a lot of children, and I wanted 8. And so, I'm
settling for, for 3. And uh Randy, I was the eldest. And I had to take
care of my other two children, and I remember my husband staying away from
the house as much as. As possible, uh, during that period because I was, I
was really, I couldn't eat, I couldn't do anything, and I yet I had to
take, I would crawl from room to room. I couldn't even stand. I remember a
girlfriend coming over to visit me and uh we carried on a conversation and
she left and she stayed for about 2 hours. She later later told me that I
never spoke a word. But I was doing it in my mind. I was that ill. And
finally, I had called someone and um And said, I am really sick. Now my
parents stayed away too. Everybody stayed away from me. So no one realized
how really ill I was. And finally, I had communicated enough that I had to
go see the doctor, and my mother took me into the office, and I didn't
feel well. I couldn't stand. And so they put me on a table in a waiting in
one of the rooms. And when the doctor came in, now I had not talked, I
wasn't talking, and he came in and he took all of my signs to see what
they were. My mother was there. And he said we have to put her in the
hospital.
Before she loses the baby. And with that, I started crying. Somebody was
gonna take care of me. And, and she said, well,
Uh, there's gonna be a few deficiency, but is she that ill? He said she's
about ready to die. This baby is taking everything she has. And so I
stayed in the hospital for about a week and was well enough to come home,
and then they were giving me enough vitamins and things, and I felt well
again till I had the baby, and he was just gorgeous, and that's my Randy.
And after that, I decided, you know, even though my faith says this is
against their religion to take birth control pills, I'm going to take them.
So from that point on, I, you know, I didn't have any more children, even
though I wanted them, but that was my ordeal through the three pregnancies
, and they were, I think, uh, I think the oldest and the youngest. Is
about About 6 years apart. So that was in the 1st 6 years of my marriage,
that was it. Our marriage didn't last. We later moved to Payson, and you
really have to like the person you're with in Payson because there is
nothing to do, so you better have your best friend with you, and I didn't.
He met somebody else, and I really was thankful, but I had gone to uh uh
it was um She was Um
Not a gypsy, but someone who would give you readings, and she told me that
my husband don't ever say you want to leave, uh, just say that you're
unhappy and he will ask you for the divorce, but if you ask him, he will
deny you one. And so when he asked me for a divorce. I started um. I
started laughing because it was word for word what she had told me, and he
thought that I was hysterical or something, and uh I said, no, that's
meant to be, and uh just wanted a separation for a while and then we'll
get divorced because I didn't want the three children to be too upset. So
that's how it ended. And I became my own person. I went back into my arts
and I made a good living. And uh he is retired school teacher, and I just
sold my business for $6 million.
And I'm going to retire because I'm 80 now.
And that's the story.
That's freaking amazing. You are seriously are one of our very top
storytellers, like you have a gift for storytelling. I used to be able to
give speeches. In fact, one of the biggest speeches was at Mesa Community
College for Women in Business. There were 500 attendees, but about 3 years
ago I had a stroke, and I was asked to speak at the realtor's conve or
think. Uh, with all the, I don't know, they have a, not a convention, but
um once a month they have a meeting. And I got up in front of them, and
then for the first time I realized I could not pronounce all my words. I
hesitated because my brain could not follow through, even though I was
thinking it, I couldn't say it. I had to apologize as I after a few words.
And thank them for asking me, but that I could not really give them what
they intended. Uh, you know, me to give them because I couldn't, I could
not follow through as a speaker anymore, but I gave lectures all through
the years, yes. How have you recovered like this then? Well, I went after
they gave me medication.
For, uh, coming out of it. I went blind, and I couldn't walk, I couldn't
do anything. And finally, and that scared me. I didn't tell anybody how
scared I was about the blindness, but slowly I got my eyesight back. I saw
threes and then I saw twos, and then I finally got sight, but I uh I have
glasses for everything. I am blurry-eyed without my glasses. That's never
happened before. And I I became uh OK when I went to refill my medications
they had given me, and it was $300 or $500 for one medication alone. I
said, keep these, so I went to the wellness center, and um they took care
of me, and I'm fine.
You haven't had an incredible life experiences. I mean, that's really it's
I don't look at it. I just look at it as being different lives. I've had
many lives.
And fun. But unfortunately, what happens when you're going through your
different periods of time and you become these different personalities,
you think you're having a struggle, and you're not realizing how great it
is. You're the only time I really paid attention and realized that I
better pay attention was when I had my babies, that they were gonna grow
really fast, and those moments in the beginning were just fleeting, and so
really pay attention to how much fun I was having with them and making it
the most and remem trying to remember the most. I was so busy all the time.
I didn't have time to make notes, but trying to remember, you know,
making a point to remember certain things in their lives, and I took some
pictures of the pictures, the picture taking kind of weaned at the third
one, and but Remembering certain things and certain moments in time and
now that I'm 80. I catch myself going back, and when I see a baby, and
remembering and feeling that holding my son, what it was like, and rocking
him or talking to him. It was great, and those are my finest moments.
I mean, she's like, you can't plan this stuff. That was an awesome ending
to the recording. Yeah. OK, are we stopping? OK, we're going to end on
that note.