All right, so this is for Solis interviewing Vicky Neary at May on May
28th, 2016 at 10:05 for the Creative Push project. OK, so why don't we set
it up the first conception event. OK. Well, my first conception was a
miscarriage. So after that, uh, the second conception, all my, well, it
was planned. We wanted to have a child. We were living in New Zealand. And
we decided, um, after the first one to just keep trying and
Let's see, Colin was. I know, during the pregnancy I gained only 25 pounds.
In fact, at the 7 month point my doctor said I needed to stop hiking and
start, uh, gaining weight because I had only gained maybe 1015 pounds by
then, so I really had to start.
Sitting back and I gained a total of 25 pounds, which wasn't enough
because I lost it within two weeks and I was really thin afterwards. So I
, I, after that, I made sure I gained a lot more weight. Then, uh, as far
as plans, I attended Lamas training because I didn't want to have any
drugs and I wanted to do it as naturally as possible. I also attended
Laleche League meetings because I wanted to breastfeed my child because my
uh. My husband's uh, brother's children. The two of them had been born
before my first and had extreme milk allergies, so I thought, and I knew
my, my family is riddle riddled with allergies. So therefore I thought, OK
, I really want to do the best and during, you know, this is back in the
70s and not everybody did, but in New Zealand where we were living, it was
a very positive thing for women to breastfeed their children. I um the
pregnancy went really well. Everything worked great. Um I'm trying to
remember, oh, except when it came to the due date, my doctor saw me and I
knew that he was famous for inducing so that he could go golfing whenever
he wanted to. He didn't, but I had told him I did not want to be induced.
Well, he wanted an X-ray done.
Battery. Headphones died and we need smaller batteries for the headphones
or do they take AA? Do they take AA?
No, they do AAA. I don't think they take batteries. Oh, they just go on a
charger. OK, let me see for a second though. Sorry about that. That's OK.
They might take batteries. batteries. My, my, my Sony's and, and you know
, they, there's something pops off and there's a battery in there, but
it's a Mhm.
They're really hard to find sometimes where that they are. Mine too have
one right here that pops. It's usually where the power button is. Is there
a power button on that? So it's usually in the same head, the two that I
have, it's in the same headset, same ear as as where the power button is
if that have the charger for this in there because you can just plug this
into your computer. Um, can I, can I still hear out of them? It's not
noise reducing, but if I can still hear what's going on, I think that's
fine. Because then I can bring my computer into the next one we can throw
it on my computer. We actually charge it in the car on the way there. Yeah
, I mean, I hate that it doesn't say like when it's getting low, it just
dies.
Has it been recording, it's been recording all time. Oh yeah, and I pause
this. Do you want, would you, do you want me to stop that for the same
length of pause? Yeah.
OK, uh, as far as the pregnancy was concerned. This was a very uh happy
pregnancy, very easy. I didn't uh have any. The morning sickness was
minimal. If I had any, I don't even remember being having morning sickness
, and I skied, uh, he was born in January. I was skiing in. July, that's
winter in New Zealand. I hiked up a mountain at 7 months. I was just
really healthy and so uh and. There were no problems. And then when the
doctor said he wanted, uh, he wanted to do an X-ray, I was like, you know
, this was before they did sonograms and he felt that the head was too
large. And then he, he did the X-ray being a first time mother, I didn't,
didn't know what to say. I didn't say no. I let him do what he wanted to
do and he said that the head was very large. Well, my husband has a very
large head, so that didn't surprise me. He said, and I said, Well, I want
to wait another week or two because I felt I had been taking temperatures
when I got conceived to know when when I was ready to conceive, and my
date was 2 weeks after his date and because he was dating it from the last
period and I was dating from when I figured conception occurred. And so I
wanted to wait for 2 more weeks and he said, your baby is alive now, he
could be dead in 2 weeks. And I mean, uh, as a, I mean, I was horrified.
That was the worst thing I've ever, I I didn't know what to say except,
OK, so I went into the hospital. And uh
I was upset. I was crying. I didn't want to have this baby now. I wanted
to have him when he was ready. Of course I didn't know it was a he,
because in those days you didn't know anything. Um They induced, they
admitted me, I believe the night before. And then in New Zealand,
everything is very different. Uh, they keep you for 10 days after a birth
, so I was admitted the day before 8 a.m. because he, they induced me and
, uh, nothing happened. The way they used it did induction was to break
the membrane. And nothing happened all day long. And so finally, they, and
I don't remember exactly when they started a Pitocin drip. I don't
remember if it was that night because knowing him, he wouldn't want to
come in in the night. So he, he may have waited till the next morning, in
which case I, I just know that I didn't have much sleep. I didn't do very
well and the Pitocin brought on the uh. The labor very quickly. I mean, so
I think it was, he must have started it the next morning. And the
contractions were real strong and all my training. Helped through the pain
, but I reached a point where they they kept offering me Demerol and I
took it, but it was really the wrong timing and I always felt like I
shouldn't, you know, you, you wanted to have this natural childbirth and
now you've failed to have a natural childbirth because you accepted a
painkiller and it was actually a negative thing because I lost control of
everything. And Then the doctor finally came in and he said, This was
about After, uh, you know, 30 hours. Since I had been induced, he said
this baby's not. Progressing as he should. And he's facing the wrong way.
I don't remember anterior or his posterior whatever he's, it's not, uh,
anyway, he's facing the wrong way, so we're gonna put you out. Well, so I
was put out. My husband was sent out of the because he was allowed to be
with me during the labor that which much was good. I was put out and he
He was delivered with high forceps, which is not done in the US at that
time wasn't done at that time, but uh I had to trust that the New Zealand
system because their mortality rate, infant mortality rate is the lowest,
uh, lower than the US, and everybody said, oh, you're gonna have a baby in
a foreign country, but I had researched and they. I figured they knew what
they were doing. The other option would have been C-section, and they
chose high forceps. Um He was delivered and I was wakened. And in the
delivery room. And it's a good thing they woke me up because I wouldn't
have believed that was my baby because he had red hair. And a lot of it.
And I said, whoa, but when I look back, there are members of my family uh
uh. Cousins and that that have red hair, so obvious it's not weird, but so
did the Demerol put you out? It didn't put me out, but it made me so
sleepy that I wasn't concentrating. I don't know if you, if when you use
the uh Lama's method, you have to time when the contractions come and I
had a song that I sang in my head. Uh, when the pain got the worse, it's
not that it eliminates the pain. It's, it just, um.
You you just you're so concentrated on something else that you. Could get
through the pain when we practiced, my husband used to pinch my Achilles
tendon. And it is first it's a lot of breathing and I don't even remember
all of it. Sometimes I use that breathing when I'm in the dentist's office
, you know, if it's a bad situation, but, uh, what, uh, it's kind of funny
because I used to sing I on a hill was a lonely goattly or you know, and I
, anyway, in my head all the while that through the pain and I just lost
it. The Demerol and it made me too sleepy to continue what I was doing.
And I, and I had pushed for hours. I was in a, you know, pushing phase.
That was why the doctor decided I was exhausted and he had to, you know,
pull the baby out rather than me deliver the baby. Anyway, So then, uh, we
spent. Uh, a lot of time in the hospital. I was in the hospital for 9 days
afterwards. Uh, because they wanted to keep me for 10, and I finally
begged them to let me out because I've been in the hospital for 11 cause I
was in there 2 days before he was born and, uh, He
He was 6 pounds, 13 ounces. So he was really scrawny looking because he
had this big head, but there was nothing wrong with him. It's just that uh.
His father is a big head. And it was, I don't remember a lot about the
hospital stay. I know that he, I cracked my tailbone when I was 16. So
when he was delivered because of his large head, he bruised my tailbone.
So I was in a lot of pain afterwards because of the tailbone issue. And,
but what they do in New Zealand is they, they teach you how to bathe the
baby, they help you with nursing the baby. I remember some very
frustrating times because of the milk allergies, they wanted to give him.
Um Uh, some formula and I refused to let him them give him formula because
of the milk allergies. And so there was a big sign on his bed, no milk for
this little guy. And uh there was also. Lale League women brought Uh, some
milk of their milk. They donated milk because they were giving him boiled
water. And they, they said I don't know because it was my first time being
a mother. I don't, you know, you're not supposed to have the milk, but
they were acting like the fact that I didn't have milk was an issue, and I
remember, uh, sitting there in the bedroom trying to nurse him and he'd
been getting milk for they've been giving him boiled water, uh, sugar
water from a bottle. And he was having trouble latching on and I was
frustrated and the nurse came in and she started saying, oh, bad mama and
I'll never forget that because Because he was screaming and I'm trying to
nurse him and the nurse is telling me that I wasn't a very good mother and
I thought anyway it was not so that part the pregnancy was a great
experience. The birth was not so hot and the afterwards in the hospital
was, you know, there were, there are positive things for keeping women,
you know, teaching you a lot of things they taught us. I don't remember
him anymore, but I know they taught us to bathe him and he was jaundiced,
so he. He didn't spend much time under Billy lights. I put him in the
window and the sunlight was on him, so he, that's how he, uh. Got rid of
his jaundice. And then, of course, everything came in and I had problems
with nursing him like any new mother, uh, you know, with, I had some
mastitis, I had some difficulties. He was a real colicky baby. Um, and he
didn't like to sleep. He never, I mean, he's finally settled down as he
got older and would sleep through the night, but during the day he didn't
nap. He would take a 15 minute nap and then he'd wake up again and he was
so, I mean it was, I think every first time mother is exhausted. But My
mother came to visit when he was 6 weeks old, and she said, oh, he just
likes a human mattress. And it was true. I carried him in the snuggly.
When I, I, I didn't have a dryer and I used regular diapers, so I, uh,
would try to carry him in the in the front pack while I would hang clothes
on the line and sometimes I carried him in the backpack and I carried him
all the time he was because part of that was because I believed in that I
believed in. And I didn't believe in letting babies cry. So I nursed him.
I, I took my watch off when I realized he was feeding, quote unquote, too
often. And so I took my watch off and I have not worn it for 40 years
because I decided I wasn't going to be, uh, I wasn't going to let the
clock dictate when I fed him. And I mean, I have a lot of other strange
things. So I mean, when we, I, we moved into a house that didn't have
central heating. So I, we just took him to bed with us when he'd wake up.
So he spent most of his first couple of years in our bed, which some
people would think is wrong, but anyway, I don't, I never have thought it
was wrong and I continued with all of my children in that manner. Were you
in New Zealand for your second? No, no. So moving on to the 2nd, uh, she
was born. Well, we were living in North Carolina. And She, when I went to
see the doctor for the first time, he wanted to know about my previous
birth and when I told him, he said, we don't do high forceps.
In the US. So you may have to have a cesarean. And I went over the births
, you know, what I wanted, and he said, oh no, you will have the baby
because of your background. You will have an IV inserted. You will be
delivering in the delivery in regular delivery room with your feet in the
stirrups and all that, and I said, OK. And then I went and found another
doctor and the doctor I found was in Georgia. We were living in North
Carolina, but it was about 15 minutes away. Uh, and this doctor was very
easygoing. He said, no problem. If there's a problem there is, we're in a
hospital, but you can deliver in the labor room if that's what you want
and your husband can catch the baby if he wants to. So he was very
progressive for that time. So I, uh, as far as the pregnancy went, again,
I didn't have any morning sickness to speak of.
But I grew much quick more quickly. And um
I had a problem with uh uh rashes all over my abdomen. So my abdomen got
inflamed and so I spent a lot of time in very loose, well, you wear loose
clothes anyway. Uh I don't remember. Oh, I, I ended up having to bind
myself because it was just, I was all out front. You couldn't tell I was
pregnant from the rear, but I had this huge basketball in front, so I used
wraps to to support. And uh Trying to think. There was something else I
was gonna say. She was also planned. We Wanted to have another baby 3
years after the others, uh, after Colin and so that. Happened Uh I gained
a little more weight, I think.
I think I got up to 40 pounds with her. But everything was working fine.
Was technology different here? So did they do sonograms yet or did you
know the sex? I did not know the sex on any of them. And uh the first time
I ever had a sonogram was with my 4th, so they did not do that, uh. Maybe
it's partly because they, with the 4th, they wanted to do, well, that's
anyway, the I attended birthing classes again because I wanted to refresh
my mind with Lama and uh I was in La Lache League anyway and by that time
I was uh an anti Laleche league leader. So I was having women come to my
home who I was helping. Uh, as a teacher, this just came naturally to me.
Other than that, I think everything went well about 2 weeks before. The
due date once more than 2 weeks, about 3 weeks before the due date, she
decided to have a dress rehearsal. Uh, it was storming. We got about 14
inches of snow and we drove down to. Clayton, Georgia to have the, we
thought we, I thought I was in labor. And it turned out I had a bladder
infection which caused labor-like symptoms. So I went back home, waited 2
more weeks, and then we went for the real thing. And uh everything in the
delivery went well this time. I was able to deliver her without any drugs.
And uh with the first delivery, I'd had an episiotomy, which I still have
problems with. Because the scar for some reason still causes pain. There
was no episiotomy with Andrea. Uh, my husband was there to catch her. The
doctor sat in the birthing room and I don't know what he was working on,
but he was writing and he'd look over at me every once in a while, and,
you know, he was just very patient, very kind. He let Dan cut the cord, uh.
I wanted to go home as soon as possible. I do believe I ended up spending
the night. Because she, her labor was more like 12 hours. But I didn't
deliver to her till evening, and so they wanted her, um, they wanted to
keep me overnight. Because the hospital was a little bit a ways away. Uh,
she was 8 pounds, which is the biggest baby I've had. And it wasn't her
head that was large. Her head and her chest were the same size, and of
course, your arms are, the arms are with your chest, so. That was the part
that was the hardest to deliver. And
It, she, uh, she was born in the now, yeah, early evening. It was in
February. So yeah, obviously we didn't, at least we didn't have a storm
that night.
Um, It was just my husband and I in the room and uh and then I took her
home. She, we called her the barracuda because just jokingly because she
nursed so fiercely that she brought blisters up on my nipples, which was a
little painful. But she was very healthy and she slept like a dream. She
would go, she would take like 23, and 4 hour naps. I would go in there to
make sure she was alive because after Colin, I was absolutely sure no baby
could ever sleep that long. I was sure that she would not be as
intelligent as my son because my son was very bright. He was talking at 14
months. He was doing all he was very intelligent and I thought she sleeps
so much. I figured he was intelligent because he was awake all the time.
But that's not true. She's now a doctor and uh has a very high IQ as he
does too, but she She was a lot different. They were like night and day as
babies and as growing up, they were like night and day difference. So can
you talk about the um natural contractions versus the Pitocin contractions
or what that is? Well, yeah. The Pitocin contractions, it just seemed like
it was harder. That's all. I mean, I don't remember specifically. Both in
all of my uh deliveries, I've had a lot of back labor, so my back ached a
lot and it just seemed like there was no Getting away from it when they
were using the Pitocin. Um, I don't know why. Uh, maybe part of it was
because they gave me the Demerol too. But with uh I can remember I can't
remember the labor with Andrea, the my second child, as much as I do the
3rd and 4th because I'm trying to visualize where I was and I don't have
the vision I have of labor is in the 3rd house that we lived in, not in
the 2nd, so I don't really remember the contractions with her. I just
remember that comparatively the labor was. It went sm more smoothly. I
didn't have, I didn't lose control. I didn't ever, well, first of all,
nobody was pushing me to take painkillers because the doctor was very He
was Involved in my wanting to have an as natural a delivery as possible.
So therefore, he didn't push me. And there was, you know, they. Never even
offered uh what the what is it people have that an injection in the back.
I'm trying to remember what it's called, but epidural. I absolutely did
not want that and by the time they gave me the Temeral they had said that
it was too late for that anyway. And with the other one they never offered
it. I didn't want it and it worked out so well that. Aye, well, I was very
happy with the whole situation and the only thing that was negative for me
was that I wanted to go home sooner. I wanted to be uh with, with my other
child too who was staying with a friend.
Uh Is there um anything, any, um, words or emotions or anything that comes
up when you reflect on the experience of that 1st and 2nd birth? Uh, I
guess with the first birth, I felt like I was frustrated. Uh And I felt
guilty that I had accepted drugs. And so with the second it was more of a
sense of elation, you know, a sense of, of succeeding. I had done it. I
had made it through a delivery. I didn't have to have a cesarean and I had
made the right choices. The doctor was the right choice because the doctor
in my hometown where I was living. I did have to push quite a while. But I
think the other doctor may have jumped into uh an epidural or he may have
jumped into a cesarean and I just felt more comfortable that this doctor
was not gonna do that to me and after the experience I had with the first
doctor, I was really determined that the second doctor was going to let me
have my way, so to speak, and he did. It was all very successful.
And that's it. OK. Were you also, when you labored in the second, were you
able to move around in labor, or were you on the bed with this? This, uh,
each one gets better in a sense the with each of my labors. The second
labor, I do not remember walking around much. I only remember mostly being
in the bed. I actually I did walk around in the hospital a bit now I, when
I think back because I remember walking in the hallways. You know, and
then it wasn't until the. You know, the baby was, well, I was fully
dilated that I had to stay in the room in the bed. So I did walk around.
I'd forgotten that. In the The other labor in New Zealand when I had my
first child. I don't remember walking anywhere. I was kept in bed most of
the time, and that was frustrating too. So like I said, there's a lot of
frustrations with my first birth and I've had a lot of problems with my
first child. I often wondered, did that high forceps delivery cause some
sort of damage because he was always a difficult child, always a rebel,
but it could be nothing. I mean, I, I have felt looking back that, you
know, what did I do wrong with him that made him so different from my
other three children could be just because he was the first born. I don't
know. But anyway, but I, I felt like I not only was really healthy during
, I, I felt like I was super mom with my second child. Don't ask me how to
define that except that I felt really healthy, really, I I did the same
things. I always made sure I didn't have any alcohol. I had good food,
good vitamins, uh, I stayed healthy, I kept active, so it wasn't a matter
of that I was more super mom with her. But somehow I I think it was
probably the the birth experience that made me feel more like supermom
because it, I, I was successful in my mind.
And OK,
should I go on to the 3rd 1? OK. So maybe give us like how much time has
passed and that kind of planned, yeah. OK, with the 3rd birth. Uh, it was
another 3 years, definitely planned because we want, we liked the spacing
with the 1st 2. It helped to have a, a 3 year old who was already potty
trained and you could talk to. Before I had a new baby. And then, uh, so
she, he was born in January also so I had a January 15th baby, a February
28th baby with the second one, and then a January 2nd baby with the third
one, and this time I went a step further. I went to a birthing center and
said what I wanted was to be able to have my other children and my family
around me when the baby was born. I wasn't prepared to do a home birth
because I knew I'd had some problems, but I wanted to have the baby and
have everybody there and I wanted to leave that day so that was my.
purpose behind the new This next baby. We were in a new city, so, and we
moved there. In September, so I had to make, uh, I was already 5 months
pregnant, so I had to make all these plans halfway through my pregnancy.
Uh, well, actually, he wasn't due till late January. But he decided to
come early. The pregnancy itself, I do remember having morning sickness
with this pregnancy, but again, not severe. I just remember that certain
smells bothered me. And so, and also as I gained weight, my, I had with
the second pregnancy I had a diastasis that my muscles separated so that
they were never really went back together again and so with the uh
subsequent pregnancies I wore a girdle that would hold me. Because it was
so weighing on me and I would, I, I also got the same rash that I'd had in
the second pregnancy all over my abdomen. And so it was, there were some
problems, but nothing major. Uh, also, Andrea, the 2nd child, did not want
to wean. I nursed all my kids 2 years because of the fact that, uh, of the
milk allergies in our family and because I believed in it. And she didn't
want to win. And the other Lele Chili women assured me that she would wean
when the baby was born because she would not like the taste of the milk,
the way it changed. But that didn't happen, so she was, I was tandem
nursing for a few months after the baby was born, which was kind of a
negative experience. I never wanted to do that again because, but I didn't
want to push her away either because I didn't want her to dislike her baby
brother. So it was, but that, that part was a little frustrating and I
determined I was never gonna have that situation again. Anyway, he, uh.
The pregnancy otherwise was went well. I gained the right amount amount of
weight. I went in and saw the, uh, midwife regularly like you would a
doctor, and she told me. Around between the holidays. She said, pack your
bag. I said, he's not due for another month. She said, pack your bag. I
said, OK. And I packed my bag and it was rather funny because it was uh
must have been January 1st, there was some football game on, and I was
laying in our water bed with a 3 year old on one side and a 6-year-old on
the other side, well, almost 3 and almost 6, and I felt wet and I said I
yelled. But these two sleeping babies in my arm to my husband who's out in
the living room. Because I couldn't get out of the bed. I was, yeah, we
called it gone cast because in New Zealand when a sheep can't is pregnant
and can't get up, they call it gone cast so because it needs help because
they, you know, you get so big it's really hard to move around. Well she,
uh, I, I was cast. I could not get out of the bed and I was wet. And you
see it's, it's 5 minutes to to the end of this great game, whatever it was
, and he's having to leave the game to come take care of me. I said I
either wet the bed. Or the bed is leaking cause it was a water bed or I've
broken my waters. One, you know, I don't know which, so. He got, he took
the kids and put them in their beds and helped me get up and we decided
that I had. Uh, you know, uh, my waters had broken. So this was midnight.
Well, there was no contractions at this point, so I waited till 9 in the
morning to go to the birthing center. And everything was arranged so that.
My neighbor came with and she watched. Uh, the, the other two children so
that Dan and I could be. Taking care of, I, you know, obviously my mind
was on. Delivering a baby and Dan's mind was on me, so she took care of,
uh, Colin and Andrea. I can remember vividly because Colin had gotten a an
airplane for Christmas and Andrea had got something called the musical
thing, and they were playing with these toys, their major Christmas
present at the time. And Bonnie, my neighbor, was watching them and also
coming in and checking on me. Yeah, cause she was very interested,
obviously. And then uh
I only I labored about 6 hours because he was, she was born in the
afternoon, he was born about 4. In the afternoon. And the kids were right
there. The only problem I had was he was a little bit blue when he was
born. He was also very 3 weeks early, so they were a little concerned, but
um, I figured that that was God's plan because his head was as big as
Collin's by his due date. And God knew I couldn't deliver another baby
that with a head that large, so he. He, he, when they, they gave me oxygen.
Because he was having a hard time getting out. But other than that, there
was no problems. And they said that I didn't tear it all, but there were
some skid marks they called them. Whatever that means and uh. It was, it
was even a better situation than it than the preceding birth because we
were all there together. hugging each other and the midwife was, you know
, a wonderful, wonderful, but she kept out of the way so it was, it was a
family thing and uh. She I don't even remember her name. There was another
one there too. They had me get into a bath afterwards, uh. And I nursed,
you know, right away. And then we went home. And I never had, you know,
there was no hospital stay at all, which was. Other than a home birth, it
was the best possible situation for me. And he He did well. He was healthy.
I think he was 7 pounds, 7 ounces, so he was good, a good size, but they
still called him premature. Because something to do with his fingerprints
were not developed, or something was not developed, but his lungs were
fine, which is The important thing. And uh
Uh That was it, I think that was it. My, none of my rest of my family was
there. My other, my, my mother is, uh, lived in Michigan and we were in
Florida at the time.
He nursed well. He grew well, he slept well. And by that time, and with
the first baby, when the second one came along, we had a family bed in
which there was a crib with no side next to it where Colin slept. Andrea
slept in the middle. Now we had 3 babies, so Colin did go to his own bed.
Before the baby was ever born and then so we still only had. Too well,
actually he was in bed with me, but he was used to falling asleep with me
but then being moved into his own bed, so. How did the kids deal with the
uh seeing the, the, I mean, some people might think children would be
traumatized, but they were in their own world with their toys. They would
come and look, they would, uh. They were Happy to see him, but there was,
it was just treated so naturally and I can remember Colin saying one time
, uh, We had taught, you know, we had taught him about eggs and sperm, and
, you know, he didn't really understand, but he said something about um Ma
, you had eggs for breakfast. I said, yes, he said, when the sperm gets to
those eggs. We're gonna have another baby. So, you know, his understanding
was a little different. We had taken them to movies of birth. And I
remember his response was, oh, that baby is so dirty. I'm gonna give that
baby a bath right away. So we got him a doll so that, you know, he could
bathe his own baby because I was a little concerned that he might think he
needed to bathe the baby, but I remember him being uh verbal about the
whole birth process. Andrea at 3, I mean she was extremely verbal, but I
don't remember her being. As interested although as she got older, she was
the more interested of the two of them because I think just instinctive
girl things where you know she would stick her baby under her shirt to
nurse the baby while I was nursing my baby, yeah. Anyway
Um, did he like the doll? Just out of curiosity. The funny thing about the
doll was that he would pull the doll around by its leg. He wasn't exactly
nurturing.
He, you know, It, we gave our kids all dolls and trucks and trains and,
you know, boy things, kitchen things. We tried to give them everything.
The boys instinctively went to cars and trucks and treated their dolls
like Like another truck that they carried around, the girls were much more
nurturing. I don't know. I mean, It just seems to be the way it is. So
Yeah, he, he wasn't exactly fatherly. We use the word motherly to mean
nurturing, but fatherly doesn't have the same connotation. And he was Uh,
he was, the, I don't remember him, he did give a baby a bath, but other
than that, the baby usually sat around naked, but my girls did that too.
The babies never had clothes on. Well, great, um, how about we transition
to the 3rd, the 4th 1. With the 4th 1, what happened was very different
because we couldn't make up our mind whether we wanted to go for 4. We had
always said we would have between 3 and 5 children. And
Nursing was most of the birth control between. But then I'd reach a point
where I wasn't trusting it and so I would use some form of birth control.
And we were using a form. It was more or less, uh, I'm, we're Catholic
and we had been trying to follow the Catholic rules but of uh rhythm.
Where you take temperatures and you. Uh You check the
I can't think the the clarity of the mucus that is expelled and well
anyway it didn't work we also used condoms part of the time, but we had
didn't use uh the diaphragm or any of the the more complicated birth
control methods and so instead of having a 3 year gap, we had a longer gap.
It was 3 and almost 3 years and 4 months and my husband was out of town.
And I, he, in fact, he was staying with my mother because he was doing
something at a university in Northern Michigan and uh he called and I said
, guess what? And he said, Uh, what? I said, we're having another baby, so
I hope you want it for.
Uh, it was only after that we made a more permanent decision about birth
control because we did decide 4 was enough. But so she was, she was
definitely a surprise. She wasn't very happy when she found out she was a
surprise. Yeah, I think that cat's gonna be sick. They often oh I feel so
bad before I think is this the sick.
Got a paper towel, I guess sometimes they spit up fur balls or whatever.
I don't think so.
Anyway,
So shall I, are we still going? No. Oh, we are still waiting. OK, I'm
making. OK. Yeah, I keep moving my hands and it's just not making a noise.
I'm not touching the tape. I know I'm such a hand talker, but that would
be the hardest part for me too.
OK. No, I have to remember where I was. Yeah,
um, at that 4th when you made a more permanent birth control, right, I
decided that we definitely had to have a more permanent.
Method of birth control afterwards, but in the meantime it was a little
more of an adjustment because with each other pregnancy I wanted a baby. I
planned a baby. I was happy when I got pregnant. I wasn't unhappy to be
pregnant because it was sort of, well, do we or don't we. But I wasn't
That's.
Uh, I wasn't unhappy to be pregnant, but it wasn't the same feeling of we
are trying, we are trying, and now we're pregnant. It was, oh, OK, we're
pregnant. I guess it was meant to be. And but the adjustment was pretty
quick, but all of the pregnancy was very different because for whatever
reason, and we were living in Gainesville, Florida by here by this point,
and I had, I've developed allergies with after my first pregnancy in New
Zealand, I developed allergies, uh, to pollen and things and then. In
North Carolina, the first few years that we lived there, I did not have
allergies, but then I developed them again. Well, we had been living in
Florida for 3 years and that's about the time when I start developing
allergies to the new place we live in. And so I ended up having a lot of
allergy problems and it became asthma. And I didn't want to take any drugs
or do anything different. So I was coping with the fact that I couldn't
breathe very well. I did see the doctor about it and they gave me
albuterol as an asthma inhaler. And but the 1st 3 months. I'm not only was
sick, but I coughed and coughed and coughed until I'd throw up, which was
not a pleasant experience. I couldn't control the coughing. I didn't
realize then that the coughing was sort of an an asthma thing. So I didn't
know that I had asthma in the beginning, I just knew that I would cough
until I would throw up. And I went to the birthing center wanting to have
a baby there again. And they said, you're wheezing, and I said. Oh, you
know, I just wasn't aware they made me see a uh a specialist for a
pulmonary specialist, and he said, I can hear you wheezing from across the
room, you know, you're and so we're going to put you on, uh, an asthma
inhaler so I did start with an inhaler. The birthing center said That they
, because I'd had oxygen with the first uh with the last child, they were
fearful that that I developed what seemed to be asthma that they might
have to consider whether at at 8 months whether they would actually allow
me to give birth in the birthing center. Well, since David had been born
at 8 months and 1 week, I didn't want to wait that long to make that sort
of decision. So I went and found a doctor who was willing to, they now had
a birthing room in the hospital. So I decided that I was not gonna have a
birth, birth center uh delivery, but I would go to the birthing room. The
doctor I met and talked with. Said that uh there was no problem that I
could deliver. I could have the kids there. I could have everything else
that I'd had at the birthing center, it just would be in the hospital. In
case there were problems. So I continued. And My asthma got worse. My
in-laws came to visit. And I don't remember exactly. This was in the 2nd
trimester, I believe. I know I've gotten past the 1st trimester. I was my
husband works as an EMT and was out on an ambulance call. He is that's not
his job, it's his vocation, so to speak, and he was on an ambulance call
and I went out to dinner with my in-laws and the kids. So I had 3 kids and
my in-laws and I couldn't eat because I couldn't breathe. And I would try
to eat something and I would choke, I mean, I couldn't, you don't realize
you breathe while you're eating. And I just couldn't get enough air, so I
kept going to the bathroom and trying to cough and trying to, and, and I
had, didn't have my asthma inhaler with me. So I went and uh I said to my
in-laws, I can't. I can't do this. I have to go home. I, I have to get my
asthma inhaler and, you know, I'm practically choking and uh everybody
thought I was in labor. I was only about 5 months along, but, you know,
with the 4th baby at 3 months along. We went to Vegas Because I knew I was
going to, I, I stayed home with my children. And never, I didn't get
babysitters very often. I didn't work. I stayed home all the time. I did
some uh. Some out of the homework like uh I sold Amley for a while. I sold
Discovery toys. I sold Discovery toys. Oh
yeah, yeah. I'm sort of getting this out of order again, but I guess
you'll know it's good, yeah, OK, I guess that was it. OK, I, uh. I worked
a little bit from the home, but for the most part I was home with the kids
all the time and when I looked into, you know, I, I sold Discovery toys, I
sold Amway and tried to make a little bit of money, but I realized that
with the 4th pregnancy I was going to be home for another 3 years at least
because that was my belief that I would stay, or maybe 5 because I never
did go back to work until the youngest was in kindergarten. And it's
because it's what I wanted to do, but at the same time, I was feeling a
little cooped up and so my husband was going to Las Vegas for a convention
and I went with him. I was 3 months pregnant. And I left my 3 year old for
the first time with, with friends and all, it was quite an arrangement to
get all of them with different people because we didn't have family close
by. Our family is in Michigan and Wisconsin and we lived in Florida. And
we so we made all these arrangements and I was, I remember it because I
was 3 months pregnant and I was being put in the front of lines because of
my pregnancy because I had, I mean, I, I didn't even know I was pregnant.
My neighbor asked me if I was pregnant and I because I started to pooch
out immediately and I said, I remember what I was wearing the day she
asked me if I was pregnant and I said. I don't think so. Wait a minute. I
could be. It was like that's. You know, I didn't even think about it
because it hadn't been a planned pregnancy. Every other time I knew
exactly when I was pregnant. So anyway, uh. I, I expanded earlier and
Going back to the story about the asthma, I was in the restaurant. I was 5
months pregnant, but I looked full term to some people. I was a lot bigger
when I was full term and The um
Everybody was looking at me because I was sort of standing over the chair
, but it was because I couldn't breathe. They thought I was going into
labor, so we hustled out of the rest got them to bring our food. I'm never
one to waste anything, so we had to take our food with us. We drove home
from the restaurant. And of course these these this was pre-cell phones,
so we couldn't get a hold of my husband. I knew I wasn't going into labor
but I could not breathe. Colin, who would have been 9 years old by then,
ran into the house and got my asthma inhaler because I said this is too
bad. I will not be able to get out of this with a hat. I mean, I was
talking between breaths and it felt like I was under water. I felt like I
was, I mean I that's obviously impossible, but I felt like I was breathing
through water. And I said, this won't be enough. I have to go to the
emergency room. So when my husband's out working on the ambulance, I'm
going to the emergency room. And I, they gave me 3 shots of epinephrine
before I pulled out of the asthma attack. And after that, I had to start
taking theophylline. Which is a drug that's no longer used for the most
part because it has terrible side effects in my opinion and in most
people's opinion. I don't know what they use now but uh well there's all
kinds of things, but at that time you uh it's a a systemic drug that you
have to have uh. Blood draws to determine the level in your blood, and
they would give me a certain amount that I'd be taking daily. It would
cause nausea, insomnia, and palpitations. So I would be up on, I could
remember doing laundry in the middle of the night. I would watch TV in the
middle of the night, I would read books, I would, you know, and then I had
to face the day with 3 kids. You know, but luckily Pallen was in school
and Andrea was in school, so I really only, and this would have been, she
was born in May, so it was during the school year so I didn't really have
to deal with 3 kids all day long. I just had the 3 year old and he was
fairly well behaved, but he's still a kid. But I did have a lot of issues
with that pregnancy because of the asthma and then then as the. Uh, the
drug would settle in. I would The 3 symptoms that I was having would go
away and the wheezing would come back. Then I'd go back and they'd up my
dose. Then the palpitations and the insomnia and the nausea would come
back. And uh, but I'd be breathing better. And then I would go through
that and I went, I, I mean, it just was for the next couple of months,
that's what I did until I managed to Reach the right level. So it was
obvious I wasn't gonna have this baby in a birthing center even if I
wanted to change my mind because of my asthma.
Uh, luckily I don't have asthma anymore, but. Uh, just telling this story
makes me feel like I can't breathe. It's kind of weird. I feel like I need
to stop and take a good long breath. Anyway, so.
This next, the next part would then be again I had a lot of rash on my
belly. I had a very large Uh Extended abdomen, but I didn't gain weight
most places elsewhere. Whereas with the first child, I lost the weight in
2 weeks. With the second child, I lost that weight in 6 weeks. Uh, with
the 3rd child, I lost the weight in 3 months. With the 4th child, I kept
some of the weight on. But that's OK cause I was always underweight. So,
um,
When I went into labor, my mother came this time for the first time. I oh
I have to go back a little bit. I had With every, I've always had a garden.
And in Gainesville, Florida, we didn't have a yard big enough for a
garden. But we rented a plot out at the university. And I went in, I was
in the garden. Gardening with the kids with me when I felt I was going
into labor and this was in April. She wasn't due till June. My husband was
with me and so we went to the hospital and that was the first time I'd
ever had a sonogram. And they asked me at the time, do you want to know
what the, what you're having? Because everything was fine and I didn't
deliver her that in April. But uh I said no, no, I haven't, I haven't
known for the others, so I might as well not know for this one. So I
didn't find out until she was born. But uh Uh, if I can go back again,
another thing that was different is that I was 35 by this time. With my
first I was 26. 2nd I was 29, the third I was 32, and with the fourth one
I was 35, and one of the things they immediately said is the danger of uh.
Uh, Down syndrome. And They said they wanted to do uh amniocentesis, and
I said why and they said because we would like to to determine if the baby
has Down syndrome. I said what would you do if the baby had Down syndrome
? Well then you could abort. I said, I absolutely will not abort. My
sister has not a Down syndrome baby, but a mentally retarded child who is
a, a joy. I mean, yes, she is slow and simple and They have to be at work
with her, but I wouldn't it's part of my part of my religion and part of
of who I am that I would not have aborted a child and I had read that
there is a cer a small percentage of chance of abortion or spontaneous
abortion or miscarriage if you do an amniocentesis. I said I'm not going
to take the risk. When I wouldn't abort anyway, and I was they said, well
, wouldn't you want to know? I said no, I don't want to know for nine
months that I'm going to have a baby that has, I would, I just want to be
happy with the pregnancy and if, if something happens and there is a
problem, we'll face it when the time comes. That's just the way it is. So
Uh, when she nearly came early, it did start me to worry. And then I had
to start garden, stop gardening. Because that was a lot of extra effort to
go out, uh, you know, several miles drive out there and, and work in the
garden. So my garden didn't get. Taken care of for the next 2 months and I
went out there after she was born. And there were things growing. It
worked. It went, you know, there were a lot of weeds too. But uh anyway,
gardening was always important to me for some funny reason. I guess I like
to grow things. And As far as the rest of the pregnancy then? It went as
the same. I did have to use my asthma inhaler. I was still using it on the
day I went into labor. I was, you know, on theophylline, but I was using
the rescue inhaler of either albuterol or Ventolin periodically.
And That one I remember. Uh, it was in the morning that I went, that I, my
waters broke. And in the last 2. Pregnancies when I, when my water broke,
it was what they called a high kick. I, I think that's a joke, but that
the water broke high, leaked out, and then the, the, uh.
Plus the, the lining.
fell down and covered so that the water no longer was leaking out so that
They couldn't tell that the water had broken. They just had to take my
word for it. And I remember with, with David, uh, who was my 3rd child.
They doubted that my water had broken. And I said Well, I didn't wet the
bed. But with, with uh Erica, they also doubted the nurses when I called,
you know, oh well, when they examined me, no. Everything is intact. It's
just open, but there's no leakage. So anyway, that was sort of frustrating.
It's like, come on, I know what I'm doing. This is my 4th time around. I
know that this is my water breaking. I'm not making this up. So I did, uh.
At 9 o'clock I did go in. No, I didn't go into the hospital. I did go in
to be checked, but I came back home. It's, it's kind of funny because with
the last two, because you have older children, I can remember them
watching TV while I was in labor and I would be standing over the table
with my, you know, with somebody rubbing my back and going through the
labor contractions and singing my little song and breathe doing my
breathing and I could hear Pete's dragon in the other room. That's, and
I'll always remember with my 4th child that Pete's Dragon was the movie
that the kids were watching. So we had to wait till Pete's Dragon was over
before we could go in to the hospital. And that would have been about 3 or
4 in the afternoon we went into the hospital. And again we took. Let me
think. No, we only took the older two, I believe, David. with each of the
children I bought them a special gift if they had to stay behind with one
who was a doctor sat with David it was an incredible Hulk or some some toy
that he got and he went to a friend's house, but the nine year old and the
six year old came to the hospital. They did not want the 3 year old there.
And they Uh, while I was laboring, they were a lot spent a lot of time
watching TV at home. They weren't allowed to watch some of the programs
that they watched that night, and they remember that to this day. They
were allowed to watch, I think it was Mr. T or something like that. It was
not a, a program. I mean, I carefully monitored their television. They
watched children, child appropriate things and They just thought it was,
that's what they most remember about my labor was that they got to watch
TV, they got to watch something that wasn't allowed at home. And one of
the things that I remember the most is that I realized about 5 o'clock, 6
o'clock at night, that every time I use my asthma inhaler, my labor was
stopping. And it was slowing down and I thought this is gonna take forever.
So my 4th labor actually took longer than my 2nd and 3rd babies because
of the fact that I was using the asthma inhaler to breathe better. And
then the labor would then everything would slow up and I would end up. And
I did a lot of walking around. I remember with that labor a lot of walking
and
My mother was there Which was uh uh new for me because she had never been
at any of my other deliveries. She's a nurse, so it was a good thing, you
know, she wasn't going to be passing out or well, I don't think any woman
would pass out. They've all been given birth, but uh. She helped with the
kids and she stood by my head like my husband. And We did name Uh, Erica,
Erica Lucille, Lucille is my mother's name. When she was born because my
mother was right there. And I remember
That my doctor went on vacation the week that I had this baby. He went. I
was due June 7th, and he said he was gonna be back June 5th. I said I had
the last 13 weeks early. He said, Oh, I'll be back. You're all right. And
so I had a totally different doctor, somebody I had never seen before,
delivered. He was really nice. I do remember he was black, not that that's
significant. He just was such a sweet man. And I remember him telling me
that I should be teaching women how to give birth because I was such, I
did so well. So in, you know, I didn't get to have another home, I mean,
didn't ever get to have a home delivery. I didn't get to go back to the
birth center, but it was a real positive experience because Erica was
small. She wasn't smaller than Colin, but she had a little teeny head. And
she, she probably was about 7 pounds. I can't remember now without looking
it up. And she was The very easiest one to actually deliver her her labor
was just as intense and actually longer than the two previous ones because
she, because of my asthma, but she was easy to deliver. I mean, I hardly
pushed at all, which was nice because I had pushed for hours with Colin
and I remember I pushed an hour or two with Andrea and I, and the same
with David. So the fact that she came in like 15 minutes once I started
pushing was. A positive thing and then like I said, having the doctor whom
I never met before, say, I don't have to do anything. You did it all, you
should be teaching people how to do this. I said, thank you very much, but
this is my last. I don't think I'll be teaching anybody. Any anything more
, maybe how to nurse them. Um And as far as there were no complications
afterwards, but I did have to stay in the hospital because she wasn't born
until 10 o'clock at night and by that time the pediatrician was gone and
they don't let you have the uh take the baby home unless the pediatrician
has checked over the baby and I wasn't gonna go home without the baby. So
my husband went home with the other kids and I stayed in the hospital and
I'm just shivering right now because I can remember how cold I was
afterwards and I don't remember that in all the other births, but I
remember I was just trembling and I don't know why um. I did have the only
other slight problems I had was uh. Slight hemorrhaging. And I remember
when I did go home and I picked up my 3 year old who was 33 years and
almost 3.5. That I could feel a clot. Move down the birth canal, you know
, uh, so I still was hemorrhaging and I had to say I can't pick him up
anymore because, you know, he was a good sized kid. And my mother took
over from that. Another thing I remember distinctly was my mother was all
concerned because my uterus was external to my muscles. And so. It would
be outside the diastasis had really opened up, of course, and. Uh, but
when I was nursing, I could feel it tight tightening down and she said,
you're gonna have to have surgery for that. And I said, If I do, I do, but
if I don't, if I can get it to go back the way, you know, and it, it took
probably a week. And after, I mean, I was physically tucking it back
inside. For about a week and then it started. Closing up, but it never, I
mean, well, my belly will never be the same after having 4 kids. So, but,
um, Erica was probably, she was the 2nd in weight. And She was an easy
baby, a little more colicky than her two previous siblings, but not
anything I couldn't handle, you know, she was fairly easy and by that time
, and I could, I, we went to Disney World not when she was itty bitty, but
when she was 6 months old and I just tucked her under my shirt and stood
in line with the kids and nursed her while I was waiting for to get on the
rides and that was. Totally different thing from your first child where
with your first child, everything is so strange. By the time you get to 4
, I can't imagine what people do when they get to 9 or 10.
Maybe they, they, but they do, the older ones help a lot because they
entertain the baby and so it's a lot easier. With the 4th 1 Then it was
with the others. I don't remember if there's anything else I should say. I
think you're doing great. Um, can you maybe reflect on your birth
experiences and talk about them as a whole or is there anything when you
look back? Well, I think that as far as the birth experiences probably.
Well, definitely Colin was. The least Enjoyable experience because
everything I had planned went out the window. I was induced, which I
didn't want. I, I took drugs which I didn't want and then I was put out
and wasn't awake and aware during that, so there's no way that that was a
good experience, but I had a baby and I remember distinctly feeling the
feeling that. I don't have exhilaration that I produced this baby. I mean
, OK, I didn't see him come out and all that, but this is mine and The
feeling of loving him. I mean, I bonded with him immediately for whatever
reason. I mean, just right away, and he, even though he was my most
difficult child. Uh, I remember, I remember it feeling like falling in
love again. This is, and I, I remember that with each of them, but it's
more. More so with the first because he was the first. And so that the
after, uh, you know, I was in pain because of my tailbone. I was in pain
because of the incision or the episiotomy, but I still remember that
feeling of uh uh elation of love and that it's all over. I've, I, I have
done this with the 2nd and 3rd. Uh, you know, they were. Well planned,
well orchestrated, and worked out exactly the way I wanted everything to
work out. With the 4th, because of my asthma, was a little more difficult
, the pregnancy was more difficult, but the birthing, it would have been
better if I hadn't had asthma. But it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't anything I
had control of, but once I realized that I had. That the asthma, asthma
inhaler was causing me to slow down the birth process. Uh, I just said,
well then I'll have to have oxygen. If you need to give me oxygen, but I'm
not gonna Take another 10 hours to have this baby. I do remember, uh, you
know, they say you forget the pain and that's somewhat true. I have had
back pain since I've had 3 back surgeries and
The back pain I, you know, that reminds me of the back pain I had during
labor. It's very intense and for me it was, you know, low back pain and
Ultimately, I've had a lot of low back pain. And maybe, no, I don't think
it had anything to do with the babies. It has to do with my spine, but uh
. I mean, I don't regret having any of the babies, obviously. Uh
I don't know what else I can say. You know, I think you're good. I think
you did great. Are we good, Ashley? Oh wait, singing his song.