WEBVTT 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:08.560 This is Boris Solis interviewing Claudia Avila on August 12th at 3:50. 00:00:08.868 --> 00:00:14.036 OK, so we'll go ahead and get started. So, can you um bring me back to the 00:00:14.069 --> 00:00:18.076 , around the time that you were pregnant, if there is anything memorable, 00:00:18.109 --> 00:00:23.875 you know, the the weather or an event, anything to kind of situate us in 00:00:23.908 --> 00:00:29.285 that time? 00:00:29.318 --> 00:00:37.318 Um Weather wise. I believe it was. A rather mild. 00:00:39.179 --> 00:00:47.179 Um, environment, although the home life was very difficult. I'm I had just 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:52.527 , I had only been in America for about 1 year or less actually about 9 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:59.765 months and um I was still acclimatizing to the The change in temperature. 00:00:59.798 --> 00:01:06.516 Um, after relocating from a colder environment to very hot environment. So 00:01:06.549 --> 00:01:13.775 it was almost enlivening. And um 00:01:13.808 --> 00:01:17.296 I'll just stop there. Yeah, no, that's fascinating. Please, you're welcome 00:01:17.329 --> 00:01:22.337 to continue. Do you wanna, um, so were you in Iceland? Um, well, I had 00:01:22.370 --> 00:01:28.117 been in America for about 9 months. And um And I was actually 00:01:28.150 --> 00:01:36.150 contemplating returning. But um I found out. I was pregnant, um. A few 00:01:36.198 --> 00:01:41.286 months, I, I was already maybe 2 months pregnant when I found out. At 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:49.319 first I thought it was a yeast infection. Um, But then, um, You know, I 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.686 had a little bleeding, so I thought it was my period is an odd. An odd 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:57.367 month, but it turned out that um cause I I thought I had a very serious 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.486 yeast infection, it turned out to be, I was just pregnant, my body was 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:03.867 just. Reacting 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:10.055 To the pregnancy. So Yeah. So what was the colder environment that you 00:02:10.088 --> 00:02:14.217 were more accustomed to? Iceland, yeah, when I was living in, I had lived 00:02:14.250 --> 00:02:21.606 in Iceland for 99 years. I was married. Um, so I had a, a, a life there, 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:26.427 um, and then things changed. And um I relocated to Arizona, which is 00:02:26.460 --> 00:02:34.460 completely opposite from my nine years in a very cold climate. Um 00:02:37.889 --> 00:02:41.467 So what brought you out here? 00:02:41.500 --> 00:02:48.096 Uh, well, Uh, what happened was that um. I noticed that my art was 00:02:48.129 --> 00:02:52.856 suffering when I was in Iceland because of the extreme isolation. I never 00:02:52.889 --> 00:02:57.717 really met anybody for 9 years and I think that it was affecting the 00:02:57.750 --> 00:03:04.066 marriage that I had there and my art slowly started to In a way, vanish, 00:03:04.099 --> 00:03:11.656 dissipate, um. Regress, greatly regress. On So there's a lot of 00:03:11.689 --> 00:03:19.689 synchronicity. Um, meeting Um, my future husband. Who's a local, a local 00:03:20.649 --> 00:03:28.467 Arizonan, and we met. Through the, through mutual friend. Um, who's who's 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:35.835 likewise an artist. And so it was interesting because we met. And not very 00:03:35.868 --> 00:03:42.495 friendly way, we kind of started off. Um, being snarky with each other. So 00:03:42.528 --> 00:03:50.528 , um, but his art was so impressive and he kind of rejuvenated me. And um 00:03:52.308 --> 00:03:58.797 It, I, I thought maybe I should just do an experiment and visit him and 00:03:58.830 --> 00:04:05.936 see what would come of it. So Be, um, it was difficult because, you know. 00:04:05.969 --> 00:04:10.036 Not meeting beforehand. But of course I was pregnant about 9 months, 9 00:04:10.069 --> 00:04:14.677 months later after visiting him, so we did get along in the most essential 00:04:14.710 --> 00:04:20.935 ways. So you hadn't met him physically. You, you knew of him while you 00:04:20.968 --> 00:04:25.627 were in Iceland and communicated with him then? That's correct. I did not 00:04:25.660 --> 00:04:32.697 . I had never met him physically. I communicated with him through email. 00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:38.976 And um since we had a mutual friend. Um, there was more trust than, of 00:04:39.009 --> 00:04:43.967 course, not knowing somebody. And you just meet them and make a rash 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:51.705 decision to Um Visit them. I think the the mutual friend made it more give 00:04:51.738 --> 00:04:57.786 it more validity. And trust definitely. So was it passionate? I mean, were 00:04:57.819 --> 00:05:01.467 you knowing they're like, this is my, the love of my life and I'm gonna 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:06.265 have a family with this person? No, the the the pregnancy was very 00:05:06.298 --> 00:05:08.447 unplanned. 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:16.395 Um, on my part, it's interesting because I think people. Um, people have 00:05:16.428 --> 00:05:21.486 an innate knowledge. And of. 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:26.526 Let me repeat, people have an innate knowledge of wanting to reproduce. I 00:05:26.559 --> 00:05:32.467 had it less than my future husband. And so he really, he wanted to have a 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:34.765 child. 00:05:34.798 --> 00:05:41.026 Even if it was on a borderline subconscious level. So I wasn't upset when 00:05:41.059 --> 00:05:43.906 I found out I was pregnant. I was a little shocked. He was shocked 00:05:43.939 --> 00:05:51.666 likewise. Um That it it worked out. 00:05:51.699 --> 00:05:57.226 No, I certainly did. Yeah. um, OK, so can you maybe talk about the 00:05:57.259 --> 00:06:00.106 experience once you found out you were pregnant and then the pregnancy and 00:06:00.139 --> 00:06:04.156 your experience, you know, the physical changes or emotional changes that 00:06:04.189 --> 00:06:10.106 came with that? Well, this is, this was not my first birth, so I did 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:14.406 expect my body to react a certain way. When being pregnant, it didn't turn 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:20.717 out that way, and that surprised me. Um, so all along I thought. The 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.596 pregnancy is gonna be easier because this is not my body should know what 00:06:23.629 --> 00:06:29.916 to do. And To a certain degree that's correct, but then it had a lot of 00:06:29.949 --> 00:06:34.745 unexpected. On physical. 00:06:34.778 --> 00:06:42.778 And reactions to the pregnancy. I had a lot of. I guess pelvic pain. And 00:06:42.819 --> 00:06:45.856 which I wasn't accustomed to. I didn't experience that in my previous 00:06:45.889 --> 00:06:50.836 pregnancy. Um, so I, I would try exercising, but there's still that pelvic 00:06:50.869 --> 00:06:53.836 pain, which was a little frightening cause I thought since I'm an older, 00:06:53.869 --> 00:06:58.536 older mother, I was a little frightened that maybe something would go 00:06:58.569 --> 00:07:05.846 wrong. Um. As a matter of fact, one of the main concerns Was That my son 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:10.166 was going to be born with Down syndrome because of my age and the clinic 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:15.687 had actually told me, oh, there's a possibility he's going to be born with 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.805 Down syndrome. So that frightened me, the whole pregnancy, the whole 00:07:19.838 --> 00:07:24.286 length of the pregnancy, and I did refuse to take an amniocentesis. Just 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:31.205 because I. I had to trust my intuition. So my intuition told me not to do 00:07:31.238 --> 00:07:35.776 it, not to go through the procedure. Um, they didn't, of course, get rid 00:07:35.809 --> 00:07:40.567 of the apprehension that I had. 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:47.437 So, um, gosh, I assumed we were the same age. When, when were you born? 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:53.106 According to the, the doctor, I was considered a geriatric mother because 00:07:53.139 --> 00:07:56.286 it's when you're 34. 00:07:56.319 --> 00:08:02.205 34, 35, that's geriatric mother, um. Of course, he was saying there's like 00:08:02.238 --> 00:08:08.305 a 1% chance, but that's enough to be to get people very anxious and 00:08:08.338 --> 00:08:12.416 Worried Um 00:08:12.449 --> 00:08:15.455 I sort of thought he just wanted to play with the fluids, you know. They 00:08:15.488 --> 00:08:18.015 sent it to labs. As a matter of fact, he actually talked to me about that 00:08:18.048 --> 00:08:22.137 , how the labs would like to compete with each other to see who would get 00:08:22.170 --> 00:08:28.106 the results in first. I, I, I let him speak and um I, as I was observing 00:08:28.139 --> 00:08:31.866 him, I, I realized, OK, this is more maybe this this might be just about 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:38.294 playing with fluid, so. That really made me go with my intuition. Not to 00:08:38.327 --> 00:08:42.206 go through the procedure. Yeah, it can be a dangerous procedure, certainly 00:08:42.239 --> 00:08:45.746 invasive. Yes, so I guess I was only a couple years away from being 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:48.385 geriatric. 00:08:48.418 --> 00:08:53.436 Um, well, that's fascinating. So then, how did you, so you had pelvic pain 00:08:53.469 --> 00:08:59.547 , um, did, uh, did you, everything progressed normally after that? I mean 00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:04.407 , you gained the normal amount of weight or did you have water retention? 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:09.576 Like what were your other physical experiences? 00:09:09.609 --> 00:09:15.456 Everything else was very normal. I had no other. Negative symptoms. I 00:09:15.489 --> 00:09:21.875 didn't have any water retention. I did exercise, so um, I try to keep in 00:09:21.908 --> 00:09:27.717 somewhat physical shape for for the birth. Because I knew it was going to 00:09:27.750 --> 00:09:35.145 Take a lot of energy. Um, there wasn't anything remarkable other than what 00:09:35.178 --> 00:09:39.907 was already stated, yeah. Had you, um, taken classes? Had you planned to 00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:44.496 have a certain kind of birth or some sort of plan? 00:09:44.529 --> 00:09:49.196 I never had the The time really to take any classes to prepare me for the 00:09:49.229 --> 00:09:54.395 birth. Um, what I did is read, I did read some books about it because I 00:09:54.428 --> 00:09:58.196 was really determined to have not only a vaginal birth, but one that 00:09:58.229 --> 00:10:06.116 didn't involve any. Um, epidural. Because in a foreign country, um, with 00:10:06.149 --> 00:10:08.706 my previous birth. 00:10:08.739 --> 00:10:14.755 And it was just a midwife delivering my daughter and I didn't have any. 00:10:14.788 --> 00:10:16.836 Medication 00:10:16.869 --> 00:10:20.037 Which I was actually very proud of, so I thought maybe I could do this 00:10:20.070 --> 00:10:28.070 again in the same manner. I didn't know um that um. That You can't exactly 00:10:29.529 --> 00:10:33.927 give birth the way you want here in Phoenix. Uh, when I was in a foreign 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:38.657 country, I, I, I really changed my, my bodily, you know, my positions, 00:10:38.690 --> 00:10:43.196 experimented. So I did, I gave birth on my knees when I was in a foreign 00:10:43.229 --> 00:10:45.576 country. It would be different. I didn't know it was going to be different 00:10:45.609 --> 00:10:51.427 , but it was here. I didn't know you had to request the um. This bar, if 00:10:51.460 --> 00:10:54.667 you wanted to give birth on your knees, I had no idea. It was my fault. I 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:59.826 didn't ask, but it wasn't offered either. 00:10:59.859 --> 00:11:05.186 Um, Were there more differences in your previous birth that you found 00:11:05.219 --> 00:11:09.787 similar to that to that to that experience? of not being able to change 00:11:09.820 --> 00:11:12.895 positions. 00:11:12.928 --> 00:11:15.287 Um 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:21.177 My labor was very long for both births. 00:11:21.210 --> 00:11:24.726 I would say that the difference between my former birth and my later birth 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:32.096 is that the contractions. Though they were as painful, they seemed, it 00:11:32.129 --> 00:11:35.775 could be because of my, my age, my advanced age at the time as being a 00:11:35.808 --> 00:11:42.639 geriatric mother. um. I think it was the contraction seemed a little bit. 00:11:43.178 --> 00:11:45.178 They had to be more They had to be instigated almost. You know, the 00:11:48.058 --> 00:11:52.936 oxytocin, instigating the the contractions with, you know, oxytocin. nip 00:11:52.969 --> 00:11:57.645 stimulation, which is what they tell you to do. So I think that's, that 00:11:57.678 --> 00:12:04.326 was a very obvious difference. So your previous birth, you, um, you found 00:12:04.359 --> 00:12:10.366 that it progressed more without extra stimulation or other things, is that 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:16.986 what you're saying? My previous birth preceded um. I can say more natural 00:12:17.019 --> 00:12:19.625 , that could be because of the environment. The environment was different 00:12:19.658 --> 00:12:25.856 and I do believe the environment does affect the Your mindset Um, for 00:12:25.889 --> 00:12:31.895 instance, my previous birth, it was in a very dim, small room, very 00:12:31.928 --> 00:12:38.375 comfortable. A very few people, just midwife keeping an eye on you. 00:12:38.408 --> 00:12:45.005 Whereas here in Arizona, they did a great job. I'm not saying they did. 00:12:45.038 --> 00:12:48.407 Anything wrong, they were very friendly, everybody was very friendly, but 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.856 it wasn't as comfortable. I didn't have that home environment as much as 00:12:52.889 --> 00:12:58.686 um. In that foreign situation that I was in. Yeah, there tend to be bright 00:12:58.719 --> 00:13:04.736 lights and a lot of people and. Was so OK, so, but you had always planned 00:13:04.769 --> 00:13:11.996 on going to the hospital for the birth here. Correct, but my. With my son 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:18.275 Uh, I did always intend to have a hospital birth. 00:13:18.308 --> 00:13:22.366 No underworld, no underwater births or anything like that, just yeah, 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:27.436 hospital births and just in case anything went wrong. And they I want him 00:13:27.469 --> 00:13:34.866 to have access to. Good medical care. So did you have, um, so your husband 00:13:34.899 --> 00:13:40.496 was there and did you have family members there or a support network? At 00:13:40.529 --> 00:13:45.606 the birth. My husband was there at the birth. I. Since it was his first 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:50.326 child, he was. Like a deer in headlights. 00:13:50.359 --> 00:13:58.236 He did research and he thought being. The eldest in the family and seeing. 00:13:58.269 --> 00:14:02.015 His siblings, you know, arrived at the house and seeing his mother 00:14:02.048 --> 00:14:05.346 pregnant that he would know how to react. It turned out he did not know 00:14:05.379 --> 00:14:10.557 how to react and he was I don't, I'm not chastising him or anything, but 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:16.385 he was very useless at that time. Um, almost, I almost felt sorry for him 00:14:16.418 --> 00:14:21.755 as I was giving birth. So, um, I had to tell him to leave. It was actually 00:14:21.788 --> 00:14:27.076 annoying me. So what I did is um surround myself with the females because 00:14:27.109 --> 00:14:32.927 the females are in tune with that. I actually. Um, requested that my 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:37.765 mother-in-law show up and be there, and she did because I knew because she 00:14:37.798 --> 00:14:44.956 had 4 children. I knew she would know exactly what that was like. So My 00:14:44.989 --> 00:14:48.366 And the father of my child, who we were, we were not married at the time, 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:51.297 he had to. 00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:57.976 Step aside and allow me to be with the the the women. And it did help. 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:03.476 Things changed after that. He was very helpful after after the birth. It 00:15:03.509 --> 00:15:06.616 was just very frightening for him. 00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:10.456 So, um, can you talk about what got you to the hospital? Like, were you at 00:15:10.489 --> 00:15:15.246 home and did your water break or did you have contractions and like what 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:21.106 what was that process? Do you remember? 00:15:21.139 --> 00:15:27.057 It was I when I first started to feel. And I was getting my body was 00:15:27.090 --> 00:15:33.956 preparing to give birth. I believe it was about. 3 in the morning And I 00:15:33.989 --> 00:15:40.135 had gone to the bathroom. And I noticed some blood. And I just felt OK, 00:15:40.168 --> 00:15:43.217 well, it's it's time. I'm not really experiencing any major contractions, 00:15:43.250 --> 00:15:47.895 but there's blood and I really should, it's about time, um. My my due date 00:15:47.928 --> 00:15:55.645 is right around the corner, so I notified my And notified them 00:15:55.678 --> 00:16:00.566 The, the father of my child, and he was very nervous, of course. I, I 00:16:00.599 --> 00:16:04.427 tried to be calm. I didn't want to be. Become too nervous for this 00:16:04.460 --> 00:16:08.976 situation. Um, and also because I had already experienced being pregnant, 00:16:09.009 --> 00:16:13.496 so naturally I'm just more calm. It's his first experience as a father, so 00:16:13.529 --> 00:16:20.145 he was very excited. So He, he drove me to the hospital and we were very 00:16:20.178 --> 00:16:25.736 tired because we actually went to bed quite late. I had. I was actually 00:16:25.769 --> 00:16:32.326 painting That that night, I still had paint on my body, which was really 00:16:32.359 --> 00:16:35.336 it was really fascinating, interesting when I was giving birth and I, you 00:16:35.369 --> 00:16:41.969 , you see paint, oil paint on your leg, on your thigh. It was very surreal. 00:16:43.599 --> 00:16:45.599 That's a really interesting image. I like that image, um. OK, so You get 00:16:50.619 --> 00:16:57.385 into the hospital and um was there any, were they, was everything 00:16:57.418 --> 00:17:02.706 progressing as they intended? I mean, was there any Pitocin or did they, 00:17:02.739 --> 00:17:09.815 they didn't break your water? No, there isn't any Pitocin. I was, I really 00:17:09.848 --> 00:17:14.736 have my mind set on having uh my son without an epidural or without any 00:17:14.769 --> 00:17:22.495 chem, you know, any medication, excuse me. So I am endured for hours. I 00:17:22.528 --> 00:17:28.877 had reached 8 centimeters. I needed 2 more centimeters. I just could not. 00:17:28.910 --> 00:17:33.696 I couldn't um Go through that my body was beginning to tense up. It was 00:17:33.729 --> 00:17:40.416 actually. Interfering in the the birth and of course, if you let it drag 00:17:40.449 --> 00:17:47.088 on, you can experience more complications. So I, I did eventually cave in. 00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:49.170 But I am still proud of those, those 8 centimeters. So I did take the 00:17:51.358 --> 00:17:57.406 epidural after all. There wasn't anything unusual other than the prolonged. 00:17:57.439 --> 00:18:00.065 Labor. 00:18:00.098 --> 00:18:05.476 So, um, when the child was emerging, did your husband come into the, or 00:18:05.509 --> 00:18:08.555 your boyfriend at the time come into the space with you was he, did he 00:18:08.588 --> 00:18:14.097 actually see the bird? I had actually requested them. And the father of my 00:18:14.130 --> 00:18:22.130 child not witnessed the birth. I didn't want him. To see that because. Of 00:18:23.189 --> 00:18:31.189 It's, it's beautiful, yes, but there's also a very. Um It's very brutal to 00:18:31.348 --> 00:18:38.756 see the body. Morph and change like that. I, I really, I requested, please 00:18:38.789 --> 00:18:46.476 , you know, do not look at the child come out. He, he, he really wanted to 00:18:46.509 --> 00:18:50.196 see it anyway and he didn't tell me, and he took a look and he watched the 00:18:50.229 --> 00:18:55.597 whole, the whole process. And he's very, he was actually quite fascinated 00:18:55.630 --> 00:18:57.825 by it. 00:18:57.858 --> 00:19:04.315 And it's something he you know, remembers to this day. 00:19:04.348 --> 00:19:09.236 Yeah, it's interesting that um the male impression or the partner's 00:19:09.269 --> 00:19:14.926 impression a lot of times of that experience um and what people I think my 00:19:14.959 --> 00:19:20.607 mother said um that area, you know, your vagina does not look like it 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.647 normally does, so it's not like it's just like a different thing, you know 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.325 what I mean? So it doesn't impact them, it doesn't make them look at you 00:19:28.358 --> 00:19:33.686 differently because they're seeing it's so different that it's almost like 00:19:33.719 --> 00:19:37.166 this is only associated with this one event. It isn't associated with you 00:19:37.199 --> 00:19:44.256 don't take that home with you. You know what I mean? It recovers. It, it, 00:19:44.289 --> 00:19:48.496 it assumes its natural shape again, yeah, that's true. He at first when he 00:19:48.529 --> 00:19:52.496 saw the head, he thought, oh, that's nothing. The head is so small. Oh, I 00:19:52.529 --> 00:19:55.416 don't know what all the fuss is about, but then all of a sudden he saw the 00:19:55.449 --> 00:19:59.897 rest of the head emerge and he, he almost jumped back. He was so shocked 00:19:59.930 --> 00:20:04.256 at the size of the child's head emerging out of the the female body. It 00:20:04.289 --> 00:20:10.065 was, yeah. It's amazing. It wouldn't surprise me if we just didn't recover 00:20:10.098 --> 00:20:16.666 from that because it's so brutal. So then, um, can you talk about, do you 00:20:16.699 --> 00:20:21.706 remember hearing your son's voice and seeing him for the first time? Oh, 00:20:21.739 --> 00:20:29.387 when I first saw my son. I was, it was um a mixture of very conflicting 00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:33.946 emotions. I was elated, but I was also concerned because this was the time 00:20:33.979 --> 00:20:38.217 where I would see whether he actually had Any issues, so they placed them 00:20:38.250 --> 00:20:41.815 . I was actually waiting for the for the nurses to say something that the 00:20:41.848 --> 00:20:45.597 doctors say. You know, something, give any indication that there was 00:20:45.630 --> 00:20:51.266 something different about him, but so they placed them on my chest. And um 00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:57.585 he was just adorable and extremely curious. He tried to lift himself up 00:20:57.618 --> 00:21:03.426 with his arms just immediately trying to. Look at our faces. It was 00:21:03.459 --> 00:21:08.986 amazing. Um, very strong, it was an indication of his strong will. Which 00:21:09.019 --> 00:21:16.617 he still has, um. We did find out that there was something uh slightly 00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:24.305 wrong. And his hearing on his, his right, right ear. Um, didn't pass the 00:21:24.338 --> 00:21:31.496 exam, the hearing exam. But it's actually nothing very serious. 00:21:31.529 --> 00:21:37.776 Is that resolved over time? No, he can't hear those sounds, but everything 00:21:37.809 --> 00:21:42.097 else is fine, he can hear speech. 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:50.130 Um, So, uh, did you plan on nursing or bottle feeding, or did you have a, 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:57.347 a, a plan about that or did you take? To nursing quickly. I, I had 00:21:57.380 --> 00:22:03.506 experienced breastfeeding. With my previous child. So, I, I knew what to 00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:06.496 expect, you know, the first week is always very difficult. The the areola 00:22:06.529 --> 00:22:13.496 is always really sore for the first week. And then it it adjusts to the 00:22:13.529 --> 00:22:19.377 feeding. Um, so I went ahead and breastfed my son. Especially since I 00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:23.575 wanted to establish that connection with him. I don't really, I, I do 00:22:23.608 --> 00:22:29.117 frown upon bottles like. Not, not to sound like snob, but I, I do. So I, I 00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:36.785 breastfed him. For almost a year. He's impressive, made it 6 months and I 00:22:36.818 --> 00:22:43.387 was like. But he was also not loving it. I don't know. Some, yeah, some 00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:47.946 children, they, they reject it after 6 months. That's true. My daughter 00:22:47.979 --> 00:22:54.656 was like that actually. Um, so the experience of being home and recovering 00:22:54.689 --> 00:23:00.897 after giving birth and everything, how was that for you? 00:23:00.930 --> 00:23:05.387 Um, the recovery, of course, is always painful, especially since I did 00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:12.496 request the. The doctor not snip me, so I tore naturally and I needed some 00:23:12.529 --> 00:23:14.607 stitches. 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.996 So that was Of course it's painful. 00:23:19.029 --> 00:23:22.535 Um, but everything else. 00:23:22.568 --> 00:23:24.617 Proceeded 00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:30.857 Fine, the cover was is actually. Quite well. 00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:35.526 OK Um, All right, well, let me look at my thing, see if there's something 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:40.805 I wanted to ask you. 00:23:40.838 --> 00:23:47.305 So, um, we are asking women to kind of try to think of, so we're 00:23:47.338 --> 00:23:52.107 separating these stories into themes to um maybe help us out by thinking 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:59.098 of a word or a phrasing of words that kind of encompasses their experience. 00:23:59.209 --> 00:24:01.209 It's a challenging question. One word, it can be a phrase of words or a 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:09.085 series of words. 00:24:09.118 --> 00:24:17.118 It's just, OK. How many themes do you have so far? 00:24:17.358 --> 00:24:20.805 Is it possible for me to fit my story into one of the already pre-existing 00:24:20.838 --> 00:24:28.176 ? OK. Do you know what they are? OK. So so far we have trauma and yours 00:24:28.209 --> 00:24:31.926 doesn't seem really traumatic, you know, in that way that most people 00:24:31.959 --> 00:24:38.956 think of trauma, um. We have um bonding, bond, you know, we're playing 00:24:38.989 --> 00:24:46.989 with, um, we have uh color. Some people associate um colors, you know, are 00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:55.127 very powerful to them. Um, celestial bodies, uh, things having to do with 00:24:55.160 --> 00:25:00.916 nature. Have been important to a lot of women. So we're really at the 00:25:00.949 --> 00:25:06.035 stage where we're not forcing things into these themes, but a lot of women 00:25:06.068 --> 00:25:10.315 , when asked this question will also talk about not thinking of things in 00:25:10.348 --> 00:25:16.397 that in that way, but thinking about things like um how transformative the 00:25:16.430 --> 00:25:23.946 experience was for them or um. You know how it made them think about their 00:25:23.979 --> 00:25:28.305 body differently. Do you know what I mean? So their experience is 00:25:28.338 --> 00:25:32.946 different than what we're thinking about putting them in the. So it can 00:25:32.979 --> 00:25:39.867 really take on any I would say it was a theme of vulnerability. 00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:44.956 Because it didn't go how I intended it to go. So you feel very vulnerable 00:25:44.989 --> 00:25:50.575 when it doesn't go as planned. And you have to Sort of adjust to it and 00:25:50.608 --> 00:25:55.656 you realize that there's you're in a sense sort of you're flirting with 00:25:55.689 --> 00:26:00.825 that powerlessness. You know, even though you're trying to focus, make 00:26:00.858 --> 00:26:06.085 things go as you as you intended. But you're still vulnerable. Um, I think 00:26:06.118 --> 00:26:10.006 it depends on the person. I mean, some women are just excellent, they can. 00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:14.647 Um, their mindsets are just amazing, and they can set their mind to it, 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:20.736 have the baby. Um, actually, I read somewhere that in Japan they they 00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:24.535 think of it not as a hospital procedure, it's more natural, whereas here 00:26:24.568 --> 00:26:30.295 in America we think of it as a hospitals like surgical procedure, um, so 00:26:30.328 --> 00:26:34.936 we think of it just automatically in a different way. So I, I went in 00:26:34.969 --> 00:26:38.476 there knowing that and I tried to change my mindset, try to see it more 00:26:38.509 --> 00:26:41.377 natural, try to be more in tune with that it still didn't go the way I 00:26:41.410 --> 00:26:47.246 intended it, so. Um, maybe I need more work, maybe my body is different. I 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:51.656 don't know, so I would say vulnerability, definitely. It's interesting. 00:26:51.689 --> 00:26:55.377 It's interesting too that that you felt vulnerable in this environment 00:26:55.410 --> 00:27:00.897 that is supposed to be all about safety and control. Yeah, I felt 00:27:00.930 --> 00:27:05.236 vulnerable to the processes of the body. 00:27:05.269 --> 00:27:08.597 Cause it wasn't listening to me. You know, you're telling it what to do, 00:27:08.630 --> 00:27:14.936 it's not listening, so, um, that's when your body is doing something. 00:27:14.969 --> 00:27:19.295 Without your consent, then you feel very vulnerable because it's some 00:27:19.328 --> 00:27:24.416 other something else. Happening, it's like a whole different layer of a of 00:27:24.449 --> 00:27:28.147 your individuality. 00:27:28.180 --> 00:27:33.045 Interesting. That is interesting. So it's almost like your conscious 00:27:33.078 --> 00:27:37.436 conscience, you know, or your, your thought process versus what your 00:27:37.469 --> 00:27:44.367 bodily functions. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hm. Well, is there anything that 00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:50.575 you can think of that we didn't mention or talk about that's relevant? 00:27:50.608 --> 00:27:54.666 Yeah, I mentioned all the most relevant. 00:27:54.699 --> 00:28:00.785 Topics, yeah, or you ask me these really good questions and I think so too. 00:28:00.818 --> 00:28:05.476 I think so too. It just it went so smoothly that it feels like wrong. Oh 00:28:05.509 --> 00:28:08.147 really? 00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:12.847 Did I not say enough? No. Was that too personal? No, I can't ever be too 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:18.348 personal. Um great. OK, so I think that we're going to end there.