This is Boris Solis interviewing Claudia Avila on August 12th at 3:50.
OK, so we'll go ahead and get started. So, can you um bring me back to the
, around the time that you were pregnant, if there is anything memorable,
you know, the the weather or an event, anything to kind of situate us in
that time?
Um Weather wise. I believe it was. A rather mild.
Um, environment, although the home life was very difficult. I'm I had just
, I had only been in America for about 1 year or less actually about 9
months and um I was still acclimatizing to the The change in temperature.
Um, after relocating from a colder environment to very hot environment. So
it was almost enlivening. And um
I'll just stop there. Yeah, no, that's fascinating. Please, you're welcome
to continue. Do you wanna, um, so were you in Iceland? Um, well, I had
been in America for about 9 months. And um And I was actually
contemplating returning. But um I found out. I was pregnant, um. A few
months, I, I was already maybe 2 months pregnant when I found out. At
first I thought it was a yeast infection. Um, But then, um, You know, I
had a little bleeding, so I thought it was my period is an odd. An odd
month, but it turned out that um cause I I thought I had a very serious
yeast infection, it turned out to be, I was just pregnant, my body was
just. Reacting
To the pregnancy. So Yeah. So what was the colder environment that you
were more accustomed to? Iceland, yeah, when I was living in, I had lived
in Iceland for 99 years. I was married. Um, so I had a, a, a life there,
um, and then things changed. And um I relocated to Arizona, which is
completely opposite from my nine years in a very cold climate. Um
So what brought you out here?
Uh, well, Uh, what happened was that um. I noticed that my art was
suffering when I was in Iceland because of the extreme isolation. I never
really met anybody for 9 years and I think that it was affecting the
marriage that I had there and my art slowly started to In a way, vanish,
dissipate, um. Regress, greatly regress. On So there's a lot of
synchronicity. Um, meeting Um, my future husband. Who's a local, a local
Arizonan, and we met. Through the, through mutual friend. Um, who's who's
likewise an artist. And so it was interesting because we met. And not very
friendly way, we kind of started off. Um, being snarky with each other. So
, um, but his art was so impressive and he kind of rejuvenated me. And um
It, I, I thought maybe I should just do an experiment and visit him and
see what would come of it. So Be, um, it was difficult because, you know.
Not meeting beforehand. But of course I was pregnant about 9 months, 9
months later after visiting him, so we did get along in the most essential
ways. So you hadn't met him physically. You, you knew of him while you
were in Iceland and communicated with him then? That's correct. I did not
. I had never met him physically. I communicated with him through email.
And um since we had a mutual friend. Um, there was more trust than, of
course, not knowing somebody. And you just meet them and make a rash
decision to Um Visit them. I think the the mutual friend made it more give
it more validity. And trust definitely. So was it passionate? I mean, were
you knowing they're like, this is my, the love of my life and I'm gonna
have a family with this person? No, the the the pregnancy was very
unplanned.
Um, on my part, it's interesting because I think people. Um, people have
an innate knowledge. And of.
Let me repeat, people have an innate knowledge of wanting to reproduce. I
had it less than my future husband. And so he really, he wanted to have a
child.
Even if it was on a borderline subconscious level. So I wasn't upset when
I found out I was pregnant. I was a little shocked. He was shocked
likewise. Um That it it worked out.
No, I certainly did. Yeah. um, OK, so can you maybe talk about the
experience once you found out you were pregnant and then the pregnancy and
your experience, you know, the physical changes or emotional changes that
came with that? Well, this is, this was not my first birth, so I did
expect my body to react a certain way. When being pregnant, it didn't turn
out that way, and that surprised me. Um, so all along I thought. The
pregnancy is gonna be easier because this is not my body should know what
to do. And To a certain degree that's correct, but then it had a lot of
unexpected. On physical.
And reactions to the pregnancy. I had a lot of. I guess pelvic pain. And
which I wasn't accustomed to. I didn't experience that in my previous
pregnancy. Um, so I, I would try exercising, but there's still that pelvic
pain, which was a little frightening cause I thought since I'm an older,
older mother, I was a little frightened that maybe something would go
wrong. Um. As a matter of fact, one of the main concerns Was That my son
was going to be born with Down syndrome because of my age and the clinic
had actually told me, oh, there's a possibility he's going to be born with
Down syndrome. So that frightened me, the whole pregnancy, the whole
length of the pregnancy, and I did refuse to take an amniocentesis. Just
because I. I had to trust my intuition. So my intuition told me not to do
it, not to go through the procedure. Um, they didn't, of course, get rid
of the apprehension that I had.
So, um, gosh, I assumed we were the same age. When, when were you born?
According to the, the doctor, I was considered a geriatric mother because
it's when you're 34.
34, 35, that's geriatric mother, um. Of course, he was saying there's like
a 1% chance, but that's enough to be to get people very anxious and
Worried Um
I sort of thought he just wanted to play with the fluids, you know. They
sent it to labs. As a matter of fact, he actually talked to me about that
, how the labs would like to compete with each other to see who would get
the results in first. I, I, I let him speak and um I, as I was observing
him, I, I realized, OK, this is more maybe this this might be just about
playing with fluid, so. That really made me go with my intuition. Not to
go through the procedure. Yeah, it can be a dangerous procedure, certainly
invasive. Yes, so I guess I was only a couple years away from being
geriatric.
Um, well, that's fascinating. So then, how did you, so you had pelvic pain
, um, did, uh, did you, everything progressed normally after that? I mean
, you gained the normal amount of weight or did you have water retention?
Like what were your other physical experiences?
Everything else was very normal. I had no other. Negative symptoms. I
didn't have any water retention. I did exercise, so um, I try to keep in
somewhat physical shape for for the birth. Because I knew it was going to
Take a lot of energy. Um, there wasn't anything remarkable other than what
was already stated, yeah. Had you, um, taken classes? Had you planned to
have a certain kind of birth or some sort of plan?
I never had the The time really to take any classes to prepare me for the
birth. Um, what I did is read, I did read some books about it because I
was really determined to have not only a vaginal birth, but one that
didn't involve any. Um, epidural. Because in a foreign country, um, with
my previous birth.
And it was just a midwife delivering my daughter and I didn't have any.
Medication
Which I was actually very proud of, so I thought maybe I could do this
again in the same manner. I didn't know um that um. That You can't exactly
give birth the way you want here in Phoenix. Uh, when I was in a foreign
country, I, I, I really changed my, my bodily, you know, my positions,
experimented. So I did, I gave birth on my knees when I was in a foreign
country. It would be different. I didn't know it was going to be different
, but it was here. I didn't know you had to request the um. This bar, if
you wanted to give birth on your knees, I had no idea. It was my fault. I
didn't ask, but it wasn't offered either.
Um, Were there more differences in your previous birth that you found
similar to that to that to that experience? of not being able to change
positions.
Um
My labor was very long for both births.
I would say that the difference between my former birth and my later birth
is that the contractions. Though they were as painful, they seemed, it
could be because of my, my age, my advanced age at the time as being a
geriatric mother. um. I think it was the contraction seemed a little bit.
They had to be more They had to be instigated almost. You know, the
oxytocin, instigating the the contractions with, you know, oxytocin. nip
stimulation, which is what they tell you to do. So I think that's, that
was a very obvious difference. So your previous birth, you, um, you found
that it progressed more without extra stimulation or other things, is that
what you're saying? My previous birth preceded um. I can say more natural
, that could be because of the environment. The environment was different
and I do believe the environment does affect the Your mindset Um, for
instance, my previous birth, it was in a very dim, small room, very
comfortable. A very few people, just midwife keeping an eye on you.
Whereas here in Arizona, they did a great job. I'm not saying they did.
Anything wrong, they were very friendly, everybody was very friendly, but
it wasn't as comfortable. I didn't have that home environment as much as
um. In that foreign situation that I was in. Yeah, there tend to be bright
lights and a lot of people and. Was so OK, so, but you had always planned
on going to the hospital for the birth here. Correct, but my. With my son
Uh, I did always intend to have a hospital birth.
No underworld, no underwater births or anything like that, just yeah,
hospital births and just in case anything went wrong. And they I want him
to have access to. Good medical care. So did you have, um, so your husband
was there and did you have family members there or a support network? At
the birth. My husband was there at the birth. I. Since it was his first
child, he was. Like a deer in headlights.
He did research and he thought being. The eldest in the family and seeing.
His siblings, you know, arrived at the house and seeing his mother
pregnant that he would know how to react. It turned out he did not know
how to react and he was I don't, I'm not chastising him or anything, but
he was very useless at that time. Um, almost, I almost felt sorry for him
as I was giving birth. So, um, I had to tell him to leave. It was actually
annoying me. So what I did is um surround myself with the females because
the females are in tune with that. I actually. Um, requested that my
mother-in-law show up and be there, and she did because I knew because she
had 4 children. I knew she would know exactly what that was like. So My
And the father of my child, who we were, we were not married at the time,
he had to.
Step aside and allow me to be with the the the women. And it did help.
Things changed after that. He was very helpful after after the birth. It
was just very frightening for him.
So, um, can you talk about what got you to the hospital? Like, were you at
home and did your water break or did you have contractions and like what
what was that process? Do you remember?
It was I when I first started to feel. And I was getting my body was
preparing to give birth. I believe it was about. 3 in the morning And I
had gone to the bathroom. And I noticed some blood. And I just felt OK,
well, it's it's time. I'm not really experiencing any major contractions,
but there's blood and I really should, it's about time, um. My my due date
is right around the corner, so I notified my And notified them
The, the father of my child, and he was very nervous, of course. I, I
tried to be calm. I didn't want to be. Become too nervous for this
situation. Um, and also because I had already experienced being pregnant,
so naturally I'm just more calm. It's his first experience as a father, so
he was very excited. So He, he drove me to the hospital and we were very
tired because we actually went to bed quite late. I had. I was actually
painting That that night, I still had paint on my body, which was really
it was really fascinating, interesting when I was giving birth and I, you
, you see paint, oil paint on your leg, on your thigh. It was very surreal.
That's a really interesting image. I like that image, um. OK, so You get
into the hospital and um was there any, were they, was everything
progressing as they intended? I mean, was there any Pitocin or did they,
they didn't break your water? No, there isn't any Pitocin. I was, I really
have my mind set on having uh my son without an epidural or without any
chem, you know, any medication, excuse me. So I am endured for hours. I
had reached 8 centimeters. I needed 2 more centimeters. I just could not.
I couldn't um Go through that my body was beginning to tense up. It was
actually. Interfering in the the birth and of course, if you let it drag
on, you can experience more complications. So I, I did eventually cave in.
But I am still proud of those, those 8 centimeters. So I did take the
epidural after all. There wasn't anything unusual other than the prolonged.
Labor.
So, um, when the child was emerging, did your husband come into the, or
your boyfriend at the time come into the space with you was he, did he
actually see the bird? I had actually requested them. And the father of my
child not witnessed the birth. I didn't want him. To see that because. Of
It's, it's beautiful, yes, but there's also a very. Um It's very brutal to
see the body. Morph and change like that. I, I really, I requested, please
, you know, do not look at the child come out. He, he, he really wanted to
see it anyway and he didn't tell me, and he took a look and he watched the
whole, the whole process. And he's very, he was actually quite fascinated
by it.
And it's something he you know, remembers to this day.
Yeah, it's interesting that um the male impression or the partner's
impression a lot of times of that experience um and what people I think my
mother said um that area, you know, your vagina does not look like it
normally does, so it's not like it's just like a different thing, you know
what I mean? So it doesn't impact them, it doesn't make them look at you
differently because they're seeing it's so different that it's almost like
this is only associated with this one event. It isn't associated with you
don't take that home with you. You know what I mean? It recovers. It, it,
it assumes its natural shape again, yeah, that's true. He at first when he
saw the head, he thought, oh, that's nothing. The head is so small. Oh, I
don't know what all the fuss is about, but then all of a sudden he saw the
rest of the head emerge and he, he almost jumped back. He was so shocked
at the size of the child's head emerging out of the the female body. It
was, yeah. It's amazing. It wouldn't surprise me if we just didn't recover
from that because it's so brutal. So then, um, can you talk about, do you
remember hearing your son's voice and seeing him for the first time? Oh,
when I first saw my son. I was, it was um a mixture of very conflicting
emotions. I was elated, but I was also concerned because this was the time
where I would see whether he actually had Any issues, so they placed them
. I was actually waiting for the for the nurses to say something that the
doctors say. You know, something, give any indication that there was
something different about him, but so they placed them on my chest. And um
he was just adorable and extremely curious. He tried to lift himself up
with his arms just immediately trying to. Look at our faces. It was
amazing. Um, very strong, it was an indication of his strong will. Which
he still has, um. We did find out that there was something uh slightly
wrong. And his hearing on his, his right, right ear. Um, didn't pass the
exam, the hearing exam. But it's actually nothing very serious.
Is that resolved over time? No, he can't hear those sounds, but everything
else is fine, he can hear speech.
Um, So, uh, did you plan on nursing or bottle feeding, or did you have a,
a, a plan about that or did you take? To nursing quickly. I, I had
experienced breastfeeding. With my previous child. So, I, I knew what to
expect, you know, the first week is always very difficult. The the areola
is always really sore for the first week. And then it it adjusts to the
feeding. Um, so I went ahead and breastfed my son. Especially since I
wanted to establish that connection with him. I don't really, I, I do
frown upon bottles like. Not, not to sound like snob, but I, I do. So I, I
breastfed him. For almost a year. He's impressive, made it 6 months and I
was like. But he was also not loving it. I don't know. Some, yeah, some
children, they, they reject it after 6 months. That's true. My daughter
was like that actually. Um, so the experience of being home and recovering
after giving birth and everything, how was that for you?
Um, the recovery, of course, is always painful, especially since I did
request the. The doctor not snip me, so I tore naturally and I needed some
stitches.
So that was Of course it's painful.
Um, but everything else.
Proceeded
Fine, the cover was is actually. Quite well.
OK Um, All right, well, let me look at my thing, see if there's something
I wanted to ask you.
So, um, we are asking women to kind of try to think of, so we're
separating these stories into themes to um maybe help us out by thinking
of a word or a phrasing of words that kind of encompasses their experience.
It's a challenging question. One word, it can be a phrase of words or a
series of words.
It's just, OK. How many themes do you have so far?
Is it possible for me to fit my story into one of the already pre-existing
? OK. Do you know what they are? OK. So so far we have trauma and yours
doesn't seem really traumatic, you know, in that way that most people
think of trauma, um. We have um bonding, bond, you know, we're playing
with, um, we have uh color. Some people associate um colors, you know, are
very powerful to them. Um, celestial bodies, uh, things having to do with
nature. Have been important to a lot of women. So we're really at the
stage where we're not forcing things into these themes, but a lot of women
, when asked this question will also talk about not thinking of things in
that in that way, but thinking about things like um how transformative the
experience was for them or um. You know how it made them think about their
body differently. Do you know what I mean? So their experience is
different than what we're thinking about putting them in the. So it can
really take on any I would say it was a theme of vulnerability.
Because it didn't go how I intended it to go. So you feel very vulnerable
when it doesn't go as planned. And you have to Sort of adjust to it and
you realize that there's you're in a sense sort of you're flirting with
that powerlessness. You know, even though you're trying to focus, make
things go as you as you intended. But you're still vulnerable. Um, I think
it depends on the person. I mean, some women are just excellent, they can.
Um, their mindsets are just amazing, and they can set their mind to it,
have the baby. Um, actually, I read somewhere that in Japan they they
think of it not as a hospital procedure, it's more natural, whereas here
in America we think of it as a hospitals like surgical procedure, um, so
we think of it just automatically in a different way. So I, I went in
there knowing that and I tried to change my mindset, try to see it more
natural, try to be more in tune with that it still didn't go the way I
intended it, so. Um, maybe I need more work, maybe my body is different. I
don't know, so I would say vulnerability, definitely. It's interesting.
It's interesting too that that you felt vulnerable in this environment
that is supposed to be all about safety and control. Yeah, I felt
vulnerable to the processes of the body.
Cause it wasn't listening to me. You know, you're telling it what to do,
it's not listening, so, um, that's when your body is doing something.
Without your consent, then you feel very vulnerable because it's some
other something else. Happening, it's like a whole different layer of a of
your individuality.
Interesting. That is interesting. So it's almost like your conscious
conscience, you know, or your, your thought process versus what your
bodily functions. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Hm. Well, is there anything that
you can think of that we didn't mention or talk about that's relevant?
Yeah, I mentioned all the most relevant.
Topics, yeah, or you ask me these really good questions and I think so too.
I think so too. It just it went so smoothly that it feels like wrong. Oh
really?
Did I not say enough? No. Was that too personal? No, I can't ever be too
personal. Um great. OK, so I think that we're going to end there.