WEBVTT 00:00:01.459 --> 00:00:09.459 This is Boris Solis interviewing CP 150624-0047, 00:00:10.538 --> 00:00:15.967 who was given a verbal consent to the consent form. 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:22.416 Correct. Um, it is June 24, 2015 at 4:52. 00:00:22.449 --> 00:00:28.157 All right. All right, so we'll get started. All right, so, um, do you want 00:00:28.190 --> 00:00:31.396 to do some, why don't you go ahead and just tell me a little bit about 00:00:31.429 --> 00:00:37.076 yourself? OK, about back then or just any time? maybe like how long you've 00:00:37.109 --> 00:00:42.557 been here or OK, I've lived in Arizona since 1976 00:00:42.590 --> 00:00:48.426 and I came down here to go to graduate school at ASU. Um, I lived in 00:00:48.459 --> 00:00:53.926 Denver before then. I've lived a lot of different places. So in the 00:00:53.959 --> 00:00:59.815 country in the US. How's audio? It's good. Yeah. OK, we're taking audio 00:00:59.848 --> 00:01:06.415 mainly too. OK. OK. Um, so maybe you could take me back to around the time 00:01:06.448 --> 00:01:10.536 of your pregnancy and or the labor and delivery, if there were any 00:01:10.569 --> 00:01:17.016 memorable aspects like it was a very hot summer or something was going on 00:01:17.049 --> 00:01:21.855 in terms of politics or just something to situate us in the time. OK. It 00:01:21.888 --> 00:01:25.447 was in the year of 1967. 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:33.480 And it was a very cold winter in Milwaukee and actually a few weeks before 00:01:35.230 --> 00:01:41.236 the birth, um we had had a big snowstorm and there was no way to, we lived 00:01:41.269 --> 00:01:44.837 in an apartment building, there was no way to even get out of the parking 00:01:44.870 --> 00:01:50.766 lot, uh, which was scary to me because my doctor had told me that it was 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:58.799 gonna be a rapid delivery. And so, because I was dilated so many, such and 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:07.000 such a level, I can't remember exactly. Um. And then I remember I was in 00:02:07.909 --> 00:02:12.346 his office and I, I started crying when I said we couldn't really get out 00:02:12.379 --> 00:02:15.975 of the parking lot and I had even spoken with the next door neighbor who 00:02:16.008 --> 00:02:23.077 was a physician on leave from Vietnam, but he wasn't an OBGYN and he said 00:02:23.110 --> 00:02:27.555 , you know, if I have to, I can deliver your baby, which, you know, with 00:02:27.588 --> 00:02:32.566 some comfort but not really, and the doctor had told me that. The baby was 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:37.775 situated in such a way that the cord could wrap around her neck. And so 00:02:37.808 --> 00:02:42.177 when he told me that it was gonna be a fast delivery and we had had this 00:02:42.210 --> 00:02:44.207 snowstorm. 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:48.406 I got tearful and I said, well, what can I do? And he said, well, what do 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:55.196 you want me to do? Put you in the hospital early? And I said, yes. Because 00:02:55.229 --> 00:02:59.636 we lived, I don't know how many miles, but we lived quite a ways out of 00:02:59.669 --> 00:03:06.916 town and uh so anyway he did put me in the hospital early and I was in the 00:03:06.949 --> 00:03:12.916 hospital we had a deal that he wanted to do an X-ray of the baby because 00:03:12.949 --> 00:03:16.805 he could tell whether or not the bones were formed enough for, you know, 00:03:16.838 --> 00:03:23.025 the delivery to take place and. I didn't really want to be X-rayed. I 00:03:23.058 --> 00:03:27.207 didn't think it was a good idea, but we had a deal that if she was not 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:35.066 born by Valentine's Day, that he would induce labor. So anyway, he decided 00:03:35.099 --> 00:03:38.666 ultimately to go ahead and do the X-ray once I've been in the hospital a 00:03:38.699 --> 00:03:44.156 couple days and it showed that she was. You know, ready to be born and 00:03:44.189 --> 00:03:48.646 everything, but they kept, he said we're gonna continue to keep you here 00:03:48.679 --> 00:03:53.596 for the next few days, but if Valentine's Day comes, then you know that's 00:03:53.629 --> 00:04:00.596 it. So anyway, um, a few days before Valentine's Day, I went into labor in 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:04.457 the hospital. And 00:04:04.490 --> 00:04:09.906 Um, I started with having these labor pains in my back, which was kind of 00:04:09.939 --> 00:04:15.816 weird. I wasn't sure I was in labor. And I called the nurse and I said, 00:04:15.849 --> 00:04:20.555 and there was a nursing shortage at that point. In the hospital and I 00:04:20.588 --> 00:04:25.656 called the nurse and she, she said, I'll be in there when I can. I have to 00:04:25.689 --> 00:04:32.955 empty all the trash cans on the floor first so there I was and finally 00:04:32.988 --> 00:04:38.567 like 20 minutes later or something, she showed up and when she looked at 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:42.377 me she could tell that the baby was about ready to be born and so she 00:04:42.410 --> 00:04:48.286 screamed and ran out of the room and called my doctor and he got there. 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:52.705 Just right about as she was being born and he didn't even have time to put 00:04:52.738 --> 00:05:00.156 on a white coat or anything like that. And he was very angry because he 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:04.717 said, you know, I put this patient in the hospital early for a reason and 00:05:04.750 --> 00:05:08.515 you call me at the last minute. Also, he had been at a basketball game 00:05:08.548 --> 00:05:11.075 that was tied. 00:05:11.108 --> 00:05:18.116 He wasn't real happy about that. So anyway, um, she was basically born 00:05:18.149 --> 00:05:23.276 with almost no sedation or anything like that and born very quickly and 00:05:23.309 --> 00:05:30.937 then He gave me Demerol right after the birth, and I had a paradoxical 00:05:30.970 --> 00:05:37.187 reaction to that. Normally that would calm you down and I just, I was like 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:42.296 wired, you know, I, I jabbered constantly. 00:05:42.329 --> 00:05:46.926 Called everybody I could think of, you know, to tell them about her birth 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:52.075 and so on. So that's basically what happened, 00:05:52.108 --> 00:05:59.627 um, so. When you Um, after who was in the room with you for one thing. OK 00:05:59.660 --> 00:06:04.305 , that, that was interesting. The person who was in the room with me. What 00:06:04.338 --> 00:06:09.187 happened was I had been in the room by myself and then they moved in a 00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:14.426 woman into the room who had pneumonia and they didn't have her baby in the 00:06:14.459 --> 00:06:18.257 room with her because of her pneumonia and her baby was gonna be brought 00:06:18.290 --> 00:06:24.825 in to be. Breastfed and my baby was in the room and I complained I said 00:06:24.858 --> 00:06:29.866 wait a minute. I said, you know, this woman has pneumonia. I don't want my 00:06:29.899 --> 00:06:34.745 baby exposed to that and they said, well, there's nothing we can do so I 00:06:34.778 --> 00:06:38.546 said, well, I'm gonna call my doctor. Well, as soon as I said that 00:06:38.579 --> 00:06:43.106 suddenly there was something they could do and they moved her out of the 00:06:43.139 --> 00:06:47.305 room and she agreed with me. I mean, she understood totally and she said I 00:06:47.338 --> 00:06:53.575 would feel the same way you do. So anyway, that happened too. So I was in 00:06:53.608 --> 00:07:00.645 there by myself after that. Yeah, so was your husband with you? He wasn't. 00:07:00.678 --> 00:07:06.805 He was back where we lived. I had another older child and of course there 00:07:06.838 --> 00:07:11.836 was no time to call anybody, you know, to be there for the delivery or 00:07:11.869 --> 00:07:16.656 anything, so I was the only one there. Did you have any family in town? 00:07:16.689 --> 00:07:24.689 Was your mother still? No, my, my mother lived in a distant state and um 00:07:25.088 --> 00:07:31.055 the only person there was my husband and my other child, but like I say, 00:07:31.088 --> 00:07:35.937 we lived out of town and you know they couldn't camp at the hospital or 00:07:35.970 --> 00:07:42.705 anything, so that's what happened. When you, um, was your pregnancy a 00:07:42.738 --> 00:07:45.276 planned pregnancy? 00:07:45.309 --> 00:07:52.757 I wouldn't call it exactly planned, but it was not a huge surprise and it 00:07:52.790 --> 00:07:57.916 was, it was like we wanted to have another child, but we weren't really 00:07:57.949 --> 00:08:03.786 specifically trying that hard at that moment in time, so. It was, it was 00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:07.336 like that. It wasn't like, you know, we're gonna really try to have a baby 00:08:07.369 --> 00:08:12.336 right this second. Yeah. Did you have any sort of birth plan or take birth 00:08:12.369 --> 00:08:14.455 classes? 00:08:14.488 --> 00:08:22.488 Um, I'm trying to remember if I did with that pregnancy. 00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:30.336 I think I had already taken those classes earlier. Um, And you know I was 00:08:30.369 --> 00:08:35.576 about ready to take classes on how do you deliver a baby or something. My 00:08:35.609 --> 00:08:39.395 doctor said, you know, I think you're somebody who could deliver your own 00:08:39.428 --> 00:08:44.816 baby if you had to, but he said, I don't want you in the have to do that 00:08:44.849 --> 00:08:50.057 because of the cord and where the baby's situated and everything. What was 00:08:50.090 --> 00:08:55.096 the concern with the cord? That it was wrapped around the baby's neck in 00:08:55.129 --> 00:09:00.186 the position and that the baby could. Be strangled, you know, during the 00:09:00.219 --> 00:09:04.927 birth process without a doctor being there for the delivery. So he 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:09.066 actually knew that at this point it was loosely kind of around the I don't 00:09:09.099 --> 00:09:14.505 know exactly how it was. um, in those days they didn't show you images 00:09:14.538 --> 00:09:20.356 like they do now, um. So I don't know, he just said the position the 00:09:20.389 --> 00:09:25.746 baby's in. Means that it's very likely the cord is wrapped around the 00:09:25.779 --> 00:09:31.226 child's neck and, you know, it could be a dangerous kind of delivery if, 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:37.456 if you don't have help. So. So had you intended to um give birth without 00:09:37.489 --> 00:09:40.366 any medication? 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:46.596 Not necessarily one way or the other, but I had had an easy time before 00:09:46.629 --> 00:09:51.287 and so I wasn't real worried about it one way or the other. I wasn't 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:56.976 extremely concerned, but. Normally I would have had something, you know, 00:09:57.009 --> 00:10:02.037 some kind of medication, yeah. At this point they weren't, they were 00:10:02.070 --> 00:10:07.157 giving epidurals though, correct? They did give epidurals, but I didn't 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:14.717 have an epidural. Um, I was somewhat leery of epidurals. I had had heard 00:10:14.750 --> 00:10:18.917 from other people that something about if you raise your head, you end up 00:10:18.950 --> 00:10:23.186 with a splitting headache and this that and the other, and I didn't feel 00:10:23.219 --> 00:10:29.015 like I really needed an epidural, so I had had a neighbor. When I had 00:10:29.048 --> 00:10:34.936 lived in another city who had done had all of her children through natural 00:10:34.969 --> 00:10:41.616 childbirth and she taught me a lot of the, you know, exercises, squatting 00:10:41.649 --> 00:10:48.496 and this that and the other to do for that so I wasn't really that worried 00:10:48.529 --> 00:10:52.177 about about that part of it. I was more worried about something going 00:10:52.210 --> 00:10:59.076 wrong without a doctor there. So, um, once the baby was born, what then? 00:10:59.109 --> 00:11:06.297 Did they give you your baby? Yes, my baby was in the room with me and um. 00:11:06.330 --> 00:11:13.037 You know, I was nursing for the first several months, um, and I I would 00:11:13.070 --> 00:11:17.717 say that I was probably in the hospital. 00:11:17.750 --> 00:11:23.037 Several days afterwards, in those days, they had people in the hospital a 00:11:23.070 --> 00:11:29.106 lot longer than they do now, you know, and I was probably in there a good 00:11:29.139 --> 00:11:35.586 3 or 4 days before I went home. Yeah. That's interesting. So they didn't 00:11:35.619 --> 00:11:39.826 take the baby to a nursery, and they just had it in the bassinet next to 00:11:39.859 --> 00:11:44.986 your bed then. Yeah, it's what in those states they called rooming in, you 00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:49.135 know, where you have your baby in the room with you. So, and I had done 00:11:49.168 --> 00:11:54.456 that in my previous pregnancy too. So, so there was nothing actually wrong 00:11:54.489 --> 00:11:58.696 with the cord that once the baby was born, the cord was not wrapped around. 00:11:58.729 --> 00:12:02.885 You know, actually, let me change something. I didn't have rooming in 00:12:02.918 --> 00:12:08.096 that I had it before, and the reason I remember I didn't is because 00:12:08.129 --> 00:12:12.736 someone said don't have rooming in because, you know, you've got to go 00:12:12.769 --> 00:12:17.846 home to your other child too who's like 2 years old. And rest while you 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:23.076 can, so I took that advice. So I didn't actually have rooming in that time. 00:12:23.109 --> 00:12:27.826 I did the time before, but that's nice, it was an option. Yeah, oh yeah, 00:12:27.859 --> 00:12:32.145 definitely, it was a women's hospital. 00:12:32.178 --> 00:12:38.525 Um, so can you talk about your pregnancy? Um, 00:12:38.558 --> 00:12:44.816 It was pretty uneventful, really, the pregnancy itself, other than, you 00:12:44.849 --> 00:12:50.456 know, as the time came and with the weather bad and all that, that was the 00:12:50.489 --> 00:12:56.375 scary part, but other than that, it was not. There was not anything about 00:12:56.408 --> 00:13:01.356 that pregnancy that particularly wasn't a particularly difficult or 00:13:01.389 --> 00:13:06.116 particularly easy pregnancy or whatever. It was just kind of a typical. 00:13:06.149 --> 00:13:14.149 Experience, I think, and we had moved to that city. Um, 00:13:14.859 --> 00:13:19.145 I would say when I was several months pregnant, we had moved there from 00:13:19.178 --> 00:13:25.606 somewhere else, so, and we lived in a big apartment complex and. So I did 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:31.157 know a few people there, but not many. How did you um feel about being 00:13:31.190 --> 00:13:37.856 pregnant? I mean, did you feel good in your skin or? I felt, I felt good 00:13:37.889 --> 00:13:44.297 about it, but it was a somewhat stressful period in the sense that. Um, 00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:50.217 you know, moving. And um. 00:13:50.250 --> 00:13:53.706 Some of the difficulties with. 00:13:53.739 --> 00:14:01.297 There were, it was competition between my mother and my in-laws. 00:14:01.330 --> 00:14:07.206 And for example, I had, uh, this was right beforehand, but I had said to 00:14:07.239 --> 00:14:11.547 my in-laws, don't come for Christmas this year because my mother's coming. 00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:16.246 We lived in a two bedroom, one bath apartment. Well, they came, you know 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:23.856 , and so it's like there were those kinds of things going on, yeah. Yeah, 00:14:23.889 --> 00:14:28.025 and those can complicate things. 00:14:28.058 --> 00:14:33.047 So did you put on a lot of weight? I can't remember how much weight I 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:37.696 gained. I think it was just kind of typical, like probably 20 or 30 pounds 00:14:37.729 --> 00:14:43.037 or something. Yeah, I mean, I didn't gain a huge amount. I didn't have 00:14:43.070 --> 00:14:49.356 swollen ankles or anything like that. I had had toxemia in an earlier 00:14:49.389 --> 00:14:56.846 pregnancy, so I was very careful about. Monitoring things and. One thing 00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:03.515 that was kind of interesting is I do remember this, um, this was my 3rd 00:15:03.548 --> 00:15:11.548 pregnancy. And I had, I was so afraid of having to see me again. That both 00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:18.537 for my 2nd pregnancy and the 3rd 1 I had. Rented a blood pressure 00:15:18.570 --> 00:15:23.025 instrument and I took my own blood pressure every day and I had decided 00:15:23.058 --> 00:15:28.505 that if my blood pressure went up, I was gonna make up a story about and 00:15:28.538 --> 00:15:33.547 go to the doctor for some reason, you know, but that had happened in my 00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:39.427 first pregnancy and it wasn't realized so. Is that where toxemia is? Well 00:15:39.460 --> 00:15:45.525 , toxemia is, is when my understanding of it is it's when your kidneys 00:15:45.558 --> 00:15:50.505 start to fail and your blood pressure shoots way up. I had had like a 00:15:50.538 --> 00:15:54.746 grand mal convulsion and everything else. I mean, I could have literally 00:15:54.779 --> 00:16:02.779 died, you know, and so I was very careful about things like that and. I 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:10.576 read later that toxemia is much more common in first pregnancies, so. I 00:16:10.609 --> 00:16:15.076 never had it again, which was good, yeah. 00:16:15.109 --> 00:16:19.076 Um, you know, I don't think I realized that you, that I thought Ruth was 00:16:19.109 --> 00:16:27.109 your only child. No, I have a daughter who is, um. 2 years older than Ruth. 00:16:28.070 --> 00:16:32.407 Yeah, how was your experience with her? Did you, um, was it similar to 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:37.537 Ruth's? Uh, it was really, it was a very good experience. I did have 00:16:37.570 --> 00:16:45.467 rooming in for that one. And she was born after my first child had died, 00:16:45.500 --> 00:16:53.500 so it was really an extremely positive experience and um It was an 00:16:53.879 --> 00:17:00.005 uneventful pregnancy and you know no complications or anything and you had 00:17:00.038 --> 00:17:06.127 um her in the hospital, yes, in a different hospital, different city. What 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:14.160 was the season? Uh, the season was fall, yeah. Yeah, Denver. 00:17:15.358 --> 00:17:21.847 Yeah. So what was home life then once you got home with Ruth? And having 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:26.887 another toddler or a young child, was 2 years, the other daughter was 2 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:29.647 years old when you were, yeah, 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:35.867 it was, you know, just kind of a typical situation, I would say, you know. 00:17:35.900 --> 00:17:40.506 Did she sleep through the night and. You know, I'm trying to even 00:17:40.539 --> 00:17:47.377 remember she was a pretty easy little baby. Later on, what happened was 00:17:47.410 --> 00:17:51.545 she would get up. And sit up in the crib in the middle of the night and 00:17:51.578 --> 00:17:58.467 start playing with things, you know, and so you'd hear all this noise. 00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:04.545 Going on and she was always a very precocious child physically like she 00:18:04.578 --> 00:18:11.467 crawled at 4 months, she walked at 8 months, you know, she just again 00:18:11.500 --> 00:18:15.607 something that I think she inherited from her father's side of the family 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:21.266 because I'm not necessarily that athletic, but um, and she always was a 00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:26.585 really good athlete, so. Yeah, so had you known before that you wanted to 00:18:26.618 --> 00:18:34.618 have 2 children? Um, Originally, when I was a child growing up, I used to 00:18:34.809 --> 00:18:39.016 say I was gonna have 6 children and each of them were gonna look like one 00:18:39.049 --> 00:18:43.496 of my friends. 00:18:43.529 --> 00:18:48.706 But as I grew up and had kids, I didn't think I want to have 6 children. 00:18:48.739 --> 00:18:56.325 Yeah. 2 was a good number. Yeah. And you have a career but I didn't have 00:18:56.358 --> 00:19:03.666 a career then. Yeah, I went back to graduate school much later. Yeah. 00:19:03.699 --> 00:19:09.496 Interesting. Mhm. OK, let me look at my notes and see if I'm. Did you 00:19:09.529 --> 00:19:16.217 feel um prepared for your delivery experiences? 00:19:16.250 --> 00:19:23.206 I think I did the 2nd and 3rd pregnancies, you know, I, I felt prepared. I 00:19:23.239 --> 00:19:28.377 mean, obviously the way things went with the 3rd pregnancy, there wasn't, 00:19:28.410 --> 00:19:34.016 I, I wasn't totally prepared for the way it was gonna unfold, you know, 00:19:34.049 --> 00:19:39.726 but um. But you know, I think I knew what to expect within reason. I 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:44.766 didn't expect that the nurse would be emptying trash cans about the time I 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:49.686 was ready to deliver. I wasn't sure though that I was in labor because of 00:19:49.719 --> 00:19:55.006 having pains in my back. I had never experienced that before. It was and 00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:00.686 it was just like twinges initially and so I didn't, I thought, well, is 00:20:00.719 --> 00:20:05.416 that really. But it was rhythmic, you know, so I thought, well, maybe that 00:20:05.449 --> 00:20:10.906 really is labor. Yeah, did the women in your family talk to you about what 00:20:10.939 --> 00:20:17.877 to expect? Not really. I mean, I think they probably had an earlier. 00:20:17.910 --> 00:20:22.666 Situations, but I, I knew. 00:20:22.699 --> 00:20:27.315 You know, I knew something about my mother's pregnancies. But I had known 00:20:27.348 --> 00:20:34.585 that for years, yeah. Did you have your seizure at home or were you? I was 00:20:34.618 --> 00:20:42.176 in the hospital, but barely. Yeah. Fortunately, I lived a few blocks from 00:20:42.209 --> 00:20:48.456 the hospital at that point. Yeah. And your health was fine after that. My 00:20:48.489 --> 00:20:53.016 health was fine, you know, I, I was just worried it was gonna happen again 00:20:53.049 --> 00:21:00.276 , you know, and I had gone to a general practitioner who was the family 00:21:00.309 --> 00:21:07.006 doctor for my husband's family. And um My mother kept saying, you know, 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.887 why don't you go to an OBGYN but I wanted to do kind of what was expected 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:18.357 in that situation, but after that child died of a crib death, I then went 00:21:18.390 --> 00:21:22.647 to see an OBGYN and had him review my records and everything, and he said 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:28.647 , you know, this may not ever happen to you again. And he also was very 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:33.305 critical of the doctor I had been to. He said, you know, he must have been 00:21:33.338 --> 00:21:37.785 throwing your urine samples down the drain or something. He said there had 00:21:37.818 --> 00:21:44.627 , he had seen you like the week before and he said, uh, I think you can 00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.785 easily, I wanted to know whether I should have another child or not 00:21:47.818 --> 00:21:51.867 because I didn't understand everything that had happened and he said, you 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:56.206 know, you should probably be fine as long as you go to somebody who. He 00:21:56.239 --> 00:21:59.607 knows what they're doing, but he said, whatever you do, don't go back to 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.726 Joe Schmo. 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:08.717 So, and you know how doctors don't usually criticize one another, yeah. 00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:13.176 Well, it's really wonderful that you had to, you know, good birthing 00:22:13.209 --> 00:22:19.906 experience. Oh, it is, it really is, yeah. Um, so we're separating these 00:22:19.939 --> 00:22:25.186 stories into themes, and so we're asking people to maybe if they can come 00:22:25.219 --> 00:22:30.147 up with a word or a small grouping of words that kind of describes their 00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:32.246 experience. 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:40.279 Hm, it's a challenging question. It is. I'll have to think about that. 00:22:58.539 --> 00:23:04.647 I guess one thing I would say is certainly they were positive experiences. 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.847 Um, 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:13.377 I also would say. They were somewhat challenging for me in the sense that 00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:15.617 um. 00:23:15.650 --> 00:23:20.226 I, one thing I learned from that first experience, I had, my father was a 00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:25.117 physician and I had always gone to good doctors. 00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:33.150 And I just kind of trusted my doctor. And I really came to believe 00:23:33.328 --> 00:23:36.815 something that I read in a book later on, but I believed it already, which 00:23:36.848 --> 00:23:41.565 is that you really have to be a partner with your doctor and you can't 00:23:41.598 --> 00:23:47.496 just say whatever you think you've got to, I felt I had to like I had to 00:23:47.529 --> 00:23:51.246 take my own blood pressure and things like that, which was probably 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:55.575 excessive, but that's how I felt, you know, that I, I wanted to take 00:23:55.608 --> 00:23:59.617 charge this time, make sure that things went, you know, the way they 00:23:59.650 --> 00:24:07.467 should go. Yeah. Women have been saying too that um going through that the 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:14.147 birth experience, labor delivery experience for them has um Brought out 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:17.496 aspects of their personality or inner strength that they didn't even 00:24:17.529 --> 00:24:22.506 really know they were capable of. You know it seems to you that you've 00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:27.026 maybe taking control part and being your own advocate was something that 00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:33.117 you came from that terrible tragedy, you know I did. 00:24:33.150 --> 00:24:38.926 I, I just really believe that you have to rely on your doctor up to a 00:24:38.959 --> 00:24:44.627 point, but you have to. Be in charge, it's your baby and your delivery and 00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:49.617 yeah. I meant to ask you and I forgot, did you have an episiotomy or did 00:24:49.650 --> 00:24:53.815 you have any issues with tearing or any physical? No, not really, not 00:24:53.848 --> 00:24:59.367 really. I didn't really have, I think I did have an episiotomy, but I 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.246 don't remember that much about it, to tell you the truth, yeah, with at 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:11.045 least one of the pregnancies, yeah. I think they're pretty common. 00:25:11.078 --> 00:25:15.706 Now it's mixed. I had to have one, but I know you had a rough time. Yeah, 00:25:15.739 --> 00:25:23.045 you did. I felt bad for you when I read that, yeah. Um, but let's see, I 00:25:23.078 --> 00:25:29.456 don't think I have. Any other questions for you? I think we did great. I 00:25:29.489 --> 00:25:34.285 really appreciate it. OK. Well, you're very welcome. Yeah. Do you have 00:25:34.318 --> 00:25:40.706 anything else you wanna add before we turn off? I don't think so. Yeah, 00:25:40.739 --> 00:25:43.650 yeah, great, yeah.