WEBVTT 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:09.120 For Soli is interviewing Lorinda Kwan. At 1212 o'clock on. The 19th June 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:17.875 19th, 2015 for the Creative fish project. OK, now we'll go ahead and get 00:00:17.908 --> 00:00:20.826 started. So if you could take us back to around the time when you were 00:00:20.859 --> 00:00:24.306 pregnant or around the time of delivery, if there was anything really 00:00:24.339 --> 00:00:28.826 memorable like what season was it or just anything that could situate us. 00:00:28.859 --> 00:00:35.695 OK, um, well, it was in the spring and uh. It basically it was an 00:00:35.728 --> 00:00:42.146 unplanned pregnancy and I remember very vaguely when I told my now husband 00:00:42.179 --> 00:00:46.936 when I was pregnant we were sitting on the couch in our old house and he 00:00:46.969 --> 00:00:50.027 was at work for a couple of days, so I hadn't seen him and I'd known I was 00:00:50.060 --> 00:00:55.945 pregnant and then I told him that I was pregnant and his first response 00:00:55.978 --> 00:01:01.847 was, oh my God, I'm going to have to buy a bigger plane. 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:05.745 That's great. 00:01:05.778 --> 00:01:10.507 So, um, why don't you walk us through the pregnancy experience, OK, OK, 00:01:10.540 --> 00:01:14.745 the pregnancy actually was fantastic. I had a ton of energy. Um, I was 00:01:14.778 --> 00:01:19.897 still in school at the time, very, very little nausea or issues at all. Um 00:01:19.930 --> 00:01:25.197 , I actually really, really loved being pregnant and even up until Um, I 00:01:25.230 --> 00:01:29.275 was, uh, 9 months pregnant, and I was standing on ladders and uh painting 00:01:29.308 --> 00:01:33.117 walls and that kind of thing. So, um, I have no complaints about my 00:01:33.150 --> 00:01:37.346 pregnancy. It was actually a really, really amazing experience. 00:01:37.379 --> 00:01:41.587 Did you um go to birth classes or did you have a planned birthing 00:01:41.620 --> 00:01:45.867 experience you wanted to have? I did not go to classes. Um, I had a 00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:50.587 midwife who kind of walked me through a lot of things. I did um some hypno 00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:54.587 birthing, um, CDs, which actually wasn't the biggest benefit for me. The 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:58.346 biggest benefit for me was actually going to prenatal yoga classes and 00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:02.227 learning how to do, you know, the ujahi breathing, that kind of thing was 00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:05.947 really, I feel something that um helps me a lot during the labor and 00:02:05.980 --> 00:02:08.547 delivery. 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:12.467 So had you planned on delivering at home or absolutely I planned on 00:02:12.500 --> 00:02:17.267 delivering at home. Um, that was my number one goal was to be at home, be 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:22.186 surrounded by, um, you know, familiar environment and have my son, um, 00:02:22.219 --> 00:02:27.487 have his first experience in a very loving, calming environment. So why 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.396 don't you walk us through that day. OK. So that was an interesting day. 00:02:31.429 --> 00:02:37.406 That day actually goes down in history in, in some way, um, in the medical 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:42.217 school that I graduated from, it was actually graduation day for me. So I 00:02:42.250 --> 00:02:47.656 woke up around 2 a.m. in the morning and I had to use the bathroom and um 00:02:47.689 --> 00:02:51.786 I had a little bit of a stomach ache, I thought, and I Um, kind of equated 00:02:51.819 --> 00:02:55.346 it to the fact that I'd eaten a, a steak the night before, which I 00:02:55.379 --> 00:02:59.106 normally don't do. So I just assumed it was a little bit of indigestion or 00:02:59.139 --> 00:03:02.467 something, and you know, I went to the bathroom, came back, lay down, and 00:03:02.500 --> 00:03:05.987 then, um, every so often I would notice I'd get a little bit of this, you 00:03:06.020 --> 00:03:09.707 know, what I thought was a stomach ache and then only after several times 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:17.740 later then it did occur to me that um I was in labor. So, um, so that, you 00:03:18.278 --> 00:03:21.606 know, and that was probably somewhere around 12 minutes apart and um of 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:25.207 course, being my first child, I panicked, so I called my midwife at, you 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:29.446 know, 3:30 in the morning and she said, you have nothing to worry about, 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:34.286 go back to bed, you know, when, when they're 5 minutes or 6 minutes apart 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:37.686 , you can give me a call again or I'll call you in the morning. So, 4 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:41.406 hours later, I gave her a call, um, you know, probably was around 7 in the 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:48.876 morning. Um. And uh in my head, you know, and funny enough, during um the 00:03:48.909 --> 00:03:53.916 weeks before, um, my classmates were actually going to be assistants at 00:03:53.949 --> 00:03:57.436 the birth and they kept joking around, you know, I have all my family 00:03:57.469 --> 00:04:01.786 coming into town for um graduation, please, whatever you do, don't have 00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:06.475 this child on graduation day, and I was very, very sure 100% that was not 00:04:06.508 --> 00:04:11.656 going to happen. And of course, um, I called them at around 8 o'clock in 00:04:11.689 --> 00:04:15.896 the morning and uh when they saw my name on their phone, they didn't even 00:04:15.929 --> 00:04:20.976 say hello. They said, oh my God, you didn't, you're in labor. So I was 00:04:21.009 --> 00:04:25.176 fully determined to go to my graduation, so I got up, I showered, I got 00:04:25.209 --> 00:04:30.276 dressed, I was in labor. And um I went to my graduation and it was really 00:04:30.309 --> 00:04:33.676 interesting because everybody for some reason I walked in the whole entire 00:04:33.709 --> 00:04:38.846 school and um everybody there knew for some reason I was in labor and all 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:44.796 eyes were on me. Um, so I did, I sat through the ceremony. I went up, I um 00:04:44.829 --> 00:04:50.986 got my certificate, my, my degree. Um, my midwife was actually one of the 00:04:51.019 --> 00:04:54.745 instructors at the school, so she was on stage and she had her eye on me 00:04:54.778 --> 00:04:57.226 the whole time, and she said, I just, if I had to give her a signal we 00:04:57.259 --> 00:05:01.317 would run out and go, but I walked up. I, uh, you know, I even said to my 00:05:01.350 --> 00:05:04.745 classmate beside me, I said, OK, well I'm unbuttoning my gown right now 00:05:04.778 --> 00:05:08.127 because I'm sweating right now, but you know, before I walk up, you just 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:11.377 remind me to do my gown back up and I went up, got my degree. I even sat 00:05:11.410 --> 00:05:14.187 sat down afterwards and had some lunch with some friends and then I went 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:18.825 home and and labored and and had my baby. So it's actually really a great 00:05:18.858 --> 00:05:22.305 , great experience, very, very beautiful experience and I'm glad I got to 00:05:22.338 --> 00:05:28.096 do um the graduation cause I'd worked very, very hard for that. 00:05:28.129 --> 00:05:33.036 So how about about once you got home? So once I got home, um, I actually 00:05:33.069 --> 00:05:37.877 thought I was going to deliver um in the tub. I had this whole idea that, 00:05:37.910 --> 00:05:40.955 you know, we had the bathroom renovated. I had a tub. I was gonna to labor 00:05:40.988 --> 00:05:44.916 in the tub. Um, I had no desire actually to get in it. The best place for 00:05:44.949 --> 00:05:50.916 me is I just labored um really on the toilet, um. And uh that was just 00:05:50.949 --> 00:05:53.676 felt like the most comfortable position for me and I just sat there and I 00:05:53.709 --> 00:05:57.596 listened to my hypno birthing tape and I just really wanted to have quiet 00:05:57.629 --> 00:06:01.116 and I was by myself and my husband would come in and check in on me once 00:06:01.149 --> 00:06:05.395 in a while, but that's really where I spent a bulk of the time, um, until 00:06:05.428 --> 00:06:09.575 I felt like, you know, I was ready to, I was ready to push. And at that 00:06:09.608 --> 00:06:15.276 point. And at that point then um we basically went into our bedroom and um 00:06:15.309 --> 00:06:21.137 I um labored and delivered on the birthing stool which um. I, I feel is 00:06:21.170 --> 00:06:28.055 the most natural position to, to birth a child. So I, um, probably pushed 00:06:28.088 --> 00:06:32.575 for longer than I think I, I, I it felt at the time I think I actually 00:06:32.608 --> 00:06:38.346 pushed for around 3.5 to 4 hours before he actually came out. And um he 00:06:38.379 --> 00:06:43.336 was a little bit uh blue at the time, so they had to give him a little bit 00:06:43.369 --> 00:06:49.305 of oxygen, um but he, you know, came through really, really easily and um 00:06:49.338 --> 00:06:52.586 and uh you know, it's a really, really great, great beautiful experience 00:06:52.619 --> 00:06:55.666 and I had my friends around me and I had my husband around me so everybody 00:06:55.699 --> 00:07:02.055 ended up making it there. That's great. So, um, what about your second 00:07:02.088 --> 00:07:07.976 delivery? So my second delivery was a completely different experience. I 00:07:08.009 --> 00:07:13.467 was so convinced that after the first one that, um, you know, and I think 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.986 the first one out of, you know, what you hear the average, I feel like the 00:07:17.019 --> 00:07:20.825 first delivery wasn't anything different, um, other than the fact that 00:07:20.858 --> 00:07:24.825 with both my pregnancies I actually had pure back labor, um, so that, that 00:07:24.858 --> 00:07:28.705 was the difference I think if you want to compare to other births, um, is 00:07:28.738 --> 00:07:32.656 , uh, for some reason I didn't have normal labor pains, it was back labor. 00:07:32.689 --> 00:07:38.575 Um, but my, my second pregnancy, um, you know, was a planned. I'd, I'd, 00:07:38.608 --> 00:07:41.495 you know, we'd certainly planned on having another one. We, uh, prior to 00:07:41.528 --> 00:07:46.015 that had two miscarriages and, um, so we're really excited about this one 00:07:46.048 --> 00:07:49.377 and I was so convinced that I, you know, it was gonna be easy, you know, 00:07:49.410 --> 00:07:53.937 68 hours and, you know, boom, the baby was gonna pop out and it would be, 00:07:53.970 --> 00:07:59.596 it would be um um just easy peasy, but that didn't actually happen. Um, so 00:07:59.629 --> 00:08:02.856 I went into labor a little bit different than the first one. This one 00:08:02.889 --> 00:08:05.717 actually didn't have any labor pains. I just got up to go to the bathroom 00:08:05.750 --> 00:08:09.395 and my water broke. And I actually didn't get pains, um, start to get 00:08:09.428 --> 00:08:13.555 labor pains until, you know, well after 1 to 2 hours after that, um, 00:08:13.588 --> 00:08:18.817 easily. And um the pains would come and go, and this happened all night, 00:08:18.850 --> 00:08:22.536 all through the afternoon where you know the pains would just be ever so 00:08:22.569 --> 00:08:25.217 slight they would come and go. I would just be hanging out at home, you 00:08:25.250 --> 00:08:31.796 know, the midwife was there um and after a while the pains just would not 00:08:31.829 --> 00:08:38.486 progress. So I ended up um. Being in labor before I ended up going to the 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:43.206 hospital for 26 hours. Yeah, was really the last part, you know, probably 00:08:43.239 --> 00:08:47.686 the last 12 hours were pretty intense um pain, but just not progressing, 00:08:47.719 --> 00:08:52.086 not dilating, and then finally after 26 hours, I just felt like this was, 00:08:52.119 --> 00:08:57.125 you know, not the experience that that and not, um, you know, I wanted to 00:08:57.158 --> 00:09:00.885 be somewhere where I was, I was safe and I just wasn't 100% sure what was 00:09:00.918 --> 00:09:03.525 going on, why I wasn't progressing. So then we ended up going to the 00:09:03.558 --> 00:09:09.467 hospital. Um, the hospital experience was actually a good one. my midwife 00:09:09.500 --> 00:09:12.826 and and her team were there with us through the whole thing, so it was 00:09:12.859 --> 00:09:17.106 really, you know, I had the support system that I was familiar with, um, 00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:21.547 and the hospital was actually really great. They were super, um, super, 00:09:21.580 --> 00:09:25.686 super. Um, supportive as to things that I wanted. I wanted to make sure I 00:09:25.719 --> 00:09:29.407 would try to, you know, deliver vaginally if I could. They were very 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:35.645 patient with that. Um, so I, I really have no, no complaints about, um, 00:09:35.678 --> 00:09:39.907 having a hospital birth at all. What was the complication? I wasn't, I 00:09:39.940 --> 00:09:45.135 wasn't dilating, so I ended up having to get um Pitocin. And um you know, 00:09:45.168 --> 00:09:48.616 and at that point I ended up getting an epidural because I was just done 00:09:48.649 --> 00:09:53.816 with the pain. I felt it was very stressful for me and for the baby. So um 00:09:53.849 --> 00:09:57.706 yeah, so for some reason I just wasn't, wasn't dilating and even with the 00:09:57.739 --> 00:10:02.255 Pitocin, the doctors and the nurses were surprised how long it took me to 00:10:02.288 --> 00:10:07.116 , to progress, but Um, thanks to an amazing OB that was there at the 00:10:07.149 --> 00:10:12.356 hospital at the time, um, really just, you know, decided that she was 00:10:12.389 --> 00:10:17.755 going to try one time with the forceps before doing any sort of episiotomy 00:10:17.788 --> 00:10:22.025 or any sort of emergency C-section, and she tried one time and I pushed 00:10:22.058 --> 00:10:26.236 and um and the baby came out. So like I said, I can't complain at all. I 00:10:26.269 --> 00:10:30.066 was really um. Um, a positive experience to have a hospital birth as well 00:10:30.099 --> 00:10:33.775 , which was surprising to me because I really had envisioned having both 00:10:33.808 --> 00:10:39.657 my kids at home. So how was um the baby's health? So he was great. Baby's 00:10:39.690 --> 00:10:45.486 health was great, 7 pounds, 8 ounces, happy as can be, no issues at all. 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:49.586 So can you um kind of think back to that moment when you first saw your 00:10:49.619 --> 00:10:53.496 baby, they put him on your chest? Like what was your experience and what? 00:10:53.529 --> 00:10:58.746 Yeah, the first, well, for my first, my experience with that with having 00:10:58.779 --> 00:11:03.086 the baby and then being able to put the baby on my chest um was amazing 00:11:03.119 --> 00:11:06.836 for the home birth because, you know, I was there and I was in a position 00:11:06.869 --> 00:11:10.116 where my husband could wrap his arms around us and it was a very intimate 00:11:10.149 --> 00:11:13.292 experience. You know, in the hospital experience you're You're lying on 00:11:13.325 --> 00:11:16.451 the bed, you know, and also they're there and the team is there because 00:11:16.484 --> 00:11:20.532 I've been in labor for so long, so I really didn't get to hold my second 00:11:20.565 --> 00:11:24.971 child as long, um, you know, they needed to take him to examine him and so 00:11:25.004 --> 00:11:27.682 that was the one thing that's a little bit sad. You don't get to connect 00:11:27.715 --> 00:11:31.052 for as long as you would like at that very moment, which is the benefit of 00:11:31.085 --> 00:11:35.721 having a home birth, um, but, uh, like I said, I can't complain it really 00:11:35.754 --> 00:11:38.491 worked out well and he was healthy and I totally understand them, you know 00:11:38.524 --> 00:11:43.427 , needing to check him out. How was nursing? Did you nurse with both kids 00:11:43.460 --> 00:11:50.826 ? I did nurse with both kids. Um, my first child, I nursed until 14 months 00:11:50.859 --> 00:11:57.307 , um, which is I wanted to reach a year, and the second child was, um, I 00:11:57.340 --> 00:12:01.557 nursed until about 9 or 10 months, um, mainly because my milk supply 00:12:01.590 --> 00:12:05.706 dwindled, going back to work and living a busy life, stress can have an 00:12:05.739 --> 00:12:10.217 effect on those types of things. 00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:12.265 Let 00:12:12.298 --> 00:12:16.395 Was there anything about the births that surprised you or any unexpected 00:12:16.428 --> 00:12:21.135 elements besides just the hospital portion, let's say? Going from someone 00:12:21.168 --> 00:12:24.496 who never had children to having your first child, was there something 00:12:24.529 --> 00:12:30.807 unexpected about that? No, I think I mean I feel like I, I try to educate 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:34.846 myself enough and you know, know enough mothers um to really prepare 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:38.206 myself for the experience, 00:12:38.239 --> 00:12:44.145 um. You know, I, I, I think with children, no matter how many times you 00:12:44.178 --> 00:12:48.226 hear uh with a newborn, how tired you're going to be, I think that 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:53.515 experience and that reality is never truly what um what you envision it to 00:12:53.548 --> 00:12:57.157 be until you're actually experiencing it and realizing that kind of 00:12:57.190 --> 00:13:02.547 fatigue and and um sleep deprivation. However, the, the nice thing about 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:07.996 that is is, you know, it does go by quickly as kids grow up and, and um. 00:13:08.029 --> 00:13:12.096 You know, they grow up and, and they don't need that kind of intense care 00:13:12.129 --> 00:13:15.297 for uh long periods of time, so it does go by quickly. But that would be 00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:18.976 the one thing I would say is I didn't realize what fatigue really was 00:13:19.009 --> 00:13:21.456 until I had a newborn. 00:13:21.489 --> 00:13:24.496 Can you describe any visual details that stand out to you? Was there 00:13:24.529 --> 00:13:32.015 anything that, um, you know, branded itself in your mind? 00:13:32.048 --> 00:13:39.726 Gosh, visual details. 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:44.677 I think the gosh it's so funny. I think the first, my first thought is, 00:13:44.710 --> 00:13:48.836 you know, because I'm Asian and my husband is Caucasian, you can never 00:13:48.869 --> 00:13:51.875 tell what the child is going to look like, and I remember the very first 00:13:51.908 --> 00:13:54.836 time I saw my first son I looked at him and I thought, oh my God, you're a 00:13:54.869 --> 00:13:59.486 little Asian boy because he totally takes after me. He looks like me. You 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.726 know, and it's, it's, and then my second one looks more like my husband, 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:05.807 so it's a nice little mix. 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.596 Is there any um one word or or group of words that you could describe your 00:14:10.629 --> 00:14:14.116 experience by? Because we're separating these into themes and so it might 00:14:14.149 --> 00:14:17.635 help us to, to see what your impression of like if you would choose a 00:14:17.668 --> 00:14:24.436 theme or a word to describe it. Empowerment 00:14:24.469 --> 00:14:28.635 Would probably be the word. I mean I feel like giving birth and and going 00:14:28.668 --> 00:14:32.816 through that experience and knowing that you did something so amazing um 00:14:32.849 --> 00:14:36.677 and knowing the kind of primal, you know, you need to access parts of 00:14:36.710 --> 00:14:42.836 yourself that you don't access on a normal daily basis and so after the 00:14:42.869 --> 00:14:46.196 experience you really realize how empowering it is and how powerful you 00:14:46.229 --> 00:14:50.726 are as a woman after you give birth. 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:53.168 I think we're good.