This is Boris Solis interviewing Kara Sly on June 24, 2015 at 111 for the
Creative Push project. So, Kara, we'll just go ahead and get started. I'll
ask you a few questions. Sorry.
Um, could you maybe take us back to around the time of the pregnancy that
you'd like to talk about first and let us know if there was anything going
on, maybe any weather wise or uh, you know, events, political events or
whatever that could kind of like just situate us or anything going on in
your life that. You know, we could kind of place ourselves. The thing I
remember most about when I first found out I was pregnant is we had only
been married for 2 months and we knew we wanted to have kids right away,
but we didn't know we'd get pregnant that fast, and I was actually a
little bit upset when I found out I was pregnant because I didn't know if
I was ready to be a mom yet, but I was glad that I had 9 months to to. You
know, get have time to get ready to be a mom, but that was, it was my both
of my first two kids, they both came pretty quickly, so that was both of
the times I found out I was pregnant was a little bit scary for me. Were
you young? I was, I was 21 when I got pregnant and I was also 21 when I
had my first, I was almost 22 when I had my first one, so I was very young.
How old were you when you had your last one? Um, let's see, I was 30 when
I had my last one. So I'd be curious if not now to know what the recovery
is different between being in your early 20s and being 30. I've talked to
a lot of moms that have had kids in their 20s and then in their 30s. I was
barely 30, so I don't feel like I was that old, but as far as they just
feel like they're more tired. I don't know about the recovery from from
the actual birth, but, um, but being a mom they're just a lot more, they
get a lot more tired easily, but. Um, I, my very first was a C-section, so
that was a really long recovery, and I didn't really notice a difference
between the four V backs that I had. I didn't notice a difference in the
length of recovery. So interesting. So, um, OK, so we'll go, we're
starting with your first. OK. Would did you um take any classes or have
like a birth plan? I didn't. I was pretty unprepared for my first baby. I
didn't really, I was just so young and I thought, oh, I don't, you know,
it's fine. We don't need to take classes because I had mom, you know, my
mom and my mother-in-law and sister, well, not sisters. I don't have
sisters, but sisters-in-law that all had all had babies and. I don't think
any of them had ever done birth classes so I just, you know, I just
listened to their stories and kind of followed along with what they did
and I wished I had been more prepared. I was really scared what it would
be like to have my first kid, you know, it was just just scary, but um.
But I, I wish I would have been more prepared and I remember after my
second one, I think I'd heard about doulas, and I really wanted to have a
doula, but I don't think my insurance paid for it, but I didn't pursue it
that much. But now I look back, I, I wish I would have done more research
and but I was just young and I didn't really. I just kind of, I'm kind of
like a laissez-faire kind of personality, just kind of kicked back. I
don't always, um, you know, pursue things like that. So I was just like,
oh, it'll be fine, it'll be fine, especially being young, so. Yeah. How
was the pregnancy process? The my pregnancies were pretty. Um, they're
pretty easy and um uneventful. I, um. I didn't, I know some people go
through like emotional issues in their pregnancy. I never had that. I
always had postpartum issues, postpartum depression for for most of my
kids, but um my pregnancies were pretty easy. I mean, I was tired and you
know, nauseous a little bit at the beginning with all of them, but, but
they weren't, they weren't terrible. What about the water and the weight
gain?
I gained more than I should have. I don't remember how much it was, but I
think with my first one I gained I think it was at least 30 pounds, but I
was pretty, I was like 130 and I'm 5'9, so I was pretty I was pretty thin
when I first got pregnant. So to gain 30 pounds, I mean that's, you know.
It didn't seem like a lot, but then when I was trying to lose it, I'm like
, oh maybe I shouldn't have gained so much weight. So yeah, 59 and you
were 130 pounds. Yeah, when I got married, that's how much I weighed. Yeah
, I know 30 pounds is nothing, by the way, we've been hearing the full
spectrum. Yeah, well, I don't know, it could have been more than 30 pounds
, but I know it was at least 30 pounds that I gained with my first one.
But then there were a few that I hardly like my third one, I hardly gained
anything at all and I lost a lot of weight, but I exercised a lot during
that pregnancy, so. Yeah. So, um, was your husband supportive? Were you
working at this time? I didn't work. I worked up until I had my first
child, and then after that I didn't work at all. I mean, I do little side
jobs like I painted murals for a little bit. I taught like a little kid's
dance class, you know, throughout being a mom, but most of the time I just
stayed home with the kids. My husband, he made pretty good money, so I was
able to do that. Um, and that was kind of like what my family did, you
know, most of my family, my mom and my sisters-in-law and most people were
stay at home moms, so that's just what I did, and I, I really enjoyed it.
I mean, I think I look back and I wish I would have pursued more being an
artist, but at the same time, I really enjoyed having that time with my
kids, especially now that they're older and they don't need me as much, so
yeah, so but he was, he was very supportive, um. I think you know, a few
times when I was pregnant maybe he was a little bit overwhelmed,
especially like the last couple of kids and like here's number 4 and
here's number 5, but for the most part he was really supportive. He, um,
because I nursed all my babies, he would in the first year he would kind
of hand them off to me, OK, they just want a nurse, you know, but, but he
would, he would, he was helpful and he was definitely supportive of me
during the, the pregnancy process and the birthing process and everything
, so. Yeah, had you planned on him or your mother being here for the birth
? Yes, he was there for all of the births and my mom was there for the 1st
2, I think. And then after that she watched my kids. She just, it was hard
for her to be there and see me in so much pain, I guess. So, and I liked
it better that way because she kind of stressed me out when she was there.
Because she was, she was always so worried about me. So it was good to
just have him in the, in the room when the kids were born. Oh sorry.
So how did you um emotionally handle the pregnancy? Were you feeling good
about yourself and Emotionally, I think I was, I did pretty well in my
pregnancies. I I would get emotional. I think my emotions were up and down
, but nothing like after I had the baby, after I had the babies I always
had. You know, without the sleep and the hormone drop and everything just
it was like. It was not fun and each one got worse, but the pregnancies
were all pretty, they were pretty easy emotionally. I was tired a lot but
I just slept a lot. But then after I had my babies, um, I because I had
postpartum depression and anxiety, it was mostly anxiety. I wouldn't sleep
, so I, you know, the baby would be sleeping and then I would just be
laying there not sleeping. So after the first couple I started taking um.
Medication to help me and that and so when I had my last two I was
already on medication that my doctor said was safe and that was like night
and day like it was so much better. So I was glad that I did that because
it's it's rough when you have all because you have so much progesterone
when you're pregnant and then all of a sudden it drops down to zero when
you have your baby and then it's like you're just at least me, I was just
a little bit crazy.
So did you um You know, in terms of also the emotional aspect of being
pregnant, did you feel good about yourself as a pregnant person? Like did
you, did I liked,
I mean it was weird to have my body change, but I didn't look at myself as
fat or especially because I was so thin to start with, I think like it to
me it was just it was just. Amazing that my body was changing so much. I
mean, I don't, I didn't really like getting, you know, my face getting
chubby or my arms or legs, but it it didn't bother me that much because I
knew it was all part of being pregnant. I knew there was a purpose for it
, so I, I enjoyed it. I mean, not that I would want to be pregnant again,
but I did enjoy being pregnant and just the idea that I was, you know,
carrying a life in my body, it was a pretty amazing experience all 5 times.
Had you known that you wanted a big family? I did. I actually, when I
first got married. I really wanted to have 7 kids. My parents had 6 and my
um husband at the time, his parents had 8, and I really wanted 7, but he,
he wanted 4. So we compromised at 5. We knew we were gonna have 5. Yeah, 5
is a lot, but it's, it's so wonderful to have the kids have each other.
They're close in age and they're like best friends, you know, I have, I
have friends that have less kids or they have one kid and it's I see how
much they have to entertain their kids or get playmates whereas my friend
, my kids are just their own playmates and they're, you know, they're just
happy to be together most of the time.
OK, so do you, um, can you kind of take us back to the time around the
labor delivery starting? Well, um, With my very first one.
It's hard to remember. I know that I was in labor for a while. I know that
we went on lots of walks to try to make him come. Um, when I, the last
appointment that I had with my doctor, I remember him telling me that he
was going to be going away on vacation or somewhere on a certain date, and
I knew that that was going to be the date that I had my son. I was due the
next day, but um he was supposed to leave at like 3 o'clock in the
afternoon. And I ended up coming into the hospital like at 9 o'clock that
morning or something. I don't remember the exact times but um I, I just
knew that was gonna be the date that was May 14th, 1999. And so we, we got
to the hospital and Um, I had the same doctor for my 1st 2, and then I
found a doctor that I like better for my last 3, and I, I did like this
doctor. Um, and he was, uh, he's of my same faith. He's Mormon, and, um, I
, I felt like he understood, you know, some of my concerns and um. Well,
not that I have different concerns because of my religion, but one thing
that did happen that was special to me was um I was so the baby wasn't
coming. I he uh he had broken my water. Uh, he had.
Kind of just been monitoring me and and the camera dropped but he wouldn't
come and they think it was because his head was turned sideways, but he
also had a really big head and this was my first baby, so I hadn't been
stretched at all. So um so they decided to do a C-section. I kind of
panicked and I'm sure the doctor could see it in my face and in my church
they have the men do something called um giving a blessing. I don't know
if you've ever heard about that in Mormon Church. So, um, they'll give a
blessing and they, they, they have, they have like the, the priesthood. I
mean, I know they have that in different churches, but Um, we have
something called the priesthood and they use that that authority and they
give you a blessing of like comfort and so my doctor actually gave me a
blessing. It was pretty amazing and it really calmed me down and it helped
me to feel better and then they took me into the operating room and cut me
open and I was still awake, but you know I didn't feel anything and it was
really, I, I calmed down a lot after that after that blessing and it was
just a really neat experience to um to see I mean just. They were cutting
and pushing and pulling and taking things out and that part was a little
bit freaky, but once he was born and he came out the first time I saw him
, he was upside down and it was just it was just a really neat experience
to see him for the first time. Um, my, I know my husband was pretty
freaked out through the whole thing. They asked him if he wanted to
videotape the C-section and he was like, no way, I don't even want to
watch it. He was pretty freaked out, but, but yeah, it was, it was pretty
special. And you know, being our first kid, it was just. I don't know. I
don't think there's anything like your first child. Like, you know, I've
had 4 since then. They were all special, but my first one, it's like I
just have this, I have a special bond with him and his birth was just. It
was the first one and it was amazing, you know, just to hear his cry and I
remember exactly how he looked, you know, it was this was 16 years ago and
I remember exactly how they, how he looked when they pulled him out. His,
his, his lip was, um, he has kind of big lips like I do and his, his top
lip was kind of protruding and I just remember seeing him cry upside down
with his lips sticking out. I, I'll never forget that image because it was
the first time I saw him and it was really special. So your husband, did
they have like a curtain? They had a curtain up. It was in front of my
face, so I couldn't see anything from my neck down, but he could see
everything, you know, and I couldn't feel anything because they had put a
lot of medication in me. So he could see, but it kind of grossed him out
and he said they were taking things out of my body and you know, cutting
things and um I've had other people, he didn't really understand
everything, but I've had other people tell me the process and they take
the sack out and they cut it open and pull the baby out and I don't know
if he even, I don't think he actually watched that part because he was so
grossed out by it. But I thought that would, that would have actually been
really special to see that on video, so I'm a little bummed out that he
didn't take a video, but that's OK. So you're talking about the like the
water sack
that's different, I think. Well, at least that's how someone described it
to me. That would be amazing to see.
Yeah, that'd be amazing. Um. So that's great. So then Uh there, there's
something while you were talking, I wanted to ask you. Um, so you labored
at home. What, what prompted you to go to the hospital? Well, I wanted to
labor at home more than I actually did. My mom said she labored at home
for most of her kids, and I kind of wanted to do what she did because I
didn't want to be at the hospital. I was a little nervous about being
there and, you know, for several hours and not or you know, 24 hours or
whatever and not eating and not drinking and you know that just kind of
worried me. But um also just being stuck in the bed and not being able to
do anything so I tried to labor at home but my My husband at the time was
so worried about something happening that he insisted that we go to the to
the hospital. My contractions were. how many minutes, you know, 3 minutes
apart or something, and we walked in and and um said, Hey, we're having a
baby and they were like, uh, you don't look like you're having a baby.
We'll check you and then we might have to send you home, but they kept me
, you know, I was fine and I was progressing, so they kept me, but it was
like 13 hours later that I had the baby, so I was in the hospital for a
while and I wished I would have stayed home and labored longer with my 4th
child, I did stay home and labor longer, um. My, so my second one, I had
an epidural that didn't work very well, and that was to me more
distressing than having a C-section because I had to push and feel
everything and maybe if I had been prepared and known what to expect or
how to get through those contractions and how to get through that pain
then. It wouldn't have been as bad, but my 3rd 1, the epidural worked
perfectly. Everything was wonderful. He was 2 weeks early, so he wasn't
very big, and he just, everything was perfect. But then my 4th 1, she was
also 2 weeks early and um I woke up in the middle of the night and was
having contractions and my husband at the time knew that. You know, I
labored for a long time, so he said we didn't have a, a video camera, so
he wanted to run to Walmart and get a video camera. It was 3 o'clock in
the morning, so I said, OK, but hurry. So I went downstairs and I was like
sitting on my ball and just kind of trying to breathe through my
contractions and. Um, just relax and, and that labor went by so quickly
and by the time he got home, I think it was an hour and a half later, I
was having heavy contractions and so we got in the car with the 3 other
kids, we put the 3 kids in the car and every time I would have a
contraction, I would kind of freak out a little bit. And my other, and my
kids kind of were looking around like what is going on? Why is mom
freaking out? So I would, I would have a contraction, freak out and then
turn around and be like, it's OK, guys, it's OK, my mom's fine, you know,
and so, um, so by the time we got to Banner Desert. Which we uh lived. At
the time we've lived in East Mesa, almost Apache Junction, so it was about
a 30 minute drive, but my doctor really wanted me to go to Banner Desert
since I was having to be back, um, and this was the doctor that I
currently have that I really love, um, so we got to Banner Desert and my
mom met us there. Usually we would take her, take him to her house because
she lives right near there, but it was like I was having so many
contractions so close together that she just met us there and we just like
rushed into the hospital. And so I came into the hospital room. Or you
know, wherever they were, they put me in, I was at a 9 already, but my
water hadn't broken, so I said, can I have an epidural? They said, Are you
sure you want an epidural? This baby's coming soon. I was like, yes,
please get me out of pain because I just wasn't used to it and I knew that
once the water broke, it would be even more intense. But now I really wish
I would have just tried to have her without an epidural because that would
have been a neat experience to, to actually experience everything, you
know, so. Um, but so they gave me the epidural and she was born about 20
minutes later after the epidural and it was, you know, it was really fast
and and hurried, but I loved it. I loved that it was so quick and I didn't
have to sit there and labor forever in the hospital. I loved laboring at
home and so I thought that my very last one would be the same. I thought
that she would come two weeks early just like the previous two. I thought
the labor would be fast, but it was totally different and the labor was
longer and my epidural didn't work and um. They thought that I should have
been. I, I started crowning before they thought I should have and so it's
just every birth has been so different, you know, and, and my, so my 4th 1
that I had very quickly once I got there, she was only 5 pounds 12 ounces
, so she came out really quickly. I think I pushed twice and she came out
, so that was, that was actually it was a really amazing birth, huh, so.
Back to the first one, so you, um, they were at home, but then when you,
when the contractions start to get closer together, that's when you decide
to go to the hospital. And then once you're at the hospital, you go ahead
and get your epidural. Um, I, I don't get my epidural until the
contractions start coming stronger. I try to labor through it for a little
while. Um, but I always get it. The first one I think I got after they
broke my water, but I have usually after that I got the got it before they
broke my water just because I know the contractions are a lot stronger
once your water breaks.
So water has broken. They've always had to break it. Yeah, I was amazed
that you know at at 9 centimeters my water still hadn't broken. So yeah, I
don't, I, I wonder how that would have worked if I was like a pioneer
woman. Like how would that have worked? I don't know if they ever broke
women's water. People gave birth with babies in their in their water sacks
, you know, that's crazy. I just cut them out, um, yeah, that's
fascinating. OK, so. So when you were in labor and you were pushing, uh,
who was in the room? What was you had a C-section the first time. OK, so
in the C-section, your husband was there. It's going to get confusing to
me. I know it is. I'm sorry. So then, OK, let's go back to that story when
um, when they pulled out your son and then I assume they did some prep
stuff with him. Would you remember the process was after that, like if you
were brought to Rome or were you given your son or? They didn't give him
to me right away, which surprised me. So when my son that I had a
C-section with when he was born, they pulled him out. Um, my husband got
to hold him or cut the cord. I think my husband got to cut the cord. They
took him over and weighed him and did all the prep things before I even
got to hold him. I didn't get to hold him for about an hour. Which really
surprised me, but I didn't really say anything cause it was my first one
and I didn't really think about it. But yeah, my husband was in the room
and then there was a whole bunch of staff helping with the C-section and
taking care of the baby and So And then you were moved to a different,
yeah, I was there for a little while while they stitched me up. I was
still in the operating room and that took a while because they have to
stitch up your uterus and your, your, you know, your outside. So, um. And
I, I'm surprised how small the scar is. It's only about 4 inches, maybe 5.
yeah, so then they moved me to another room to recover and I think the
next day. The doctor came. It was a different doctor in their practice and
he took out the staples. But yeah, so I was there for like 4 days in the
hospital, maybe 3 days, but it was longer than a normal recovery because
it was a C-section. With the others, you weren't in the hospital that long
then. No, that was, I was there for a day or two, and I always wanted to
be there longer because it was nice to have someone to take care of me.
The first time I just wanted to go home because um I didn't sleep at all
in the hospital and I think that was part of my postpartum issues like I
just couldn't sleep. I slept the first night I slept for about an hour and
then my husband at the time, he went home to do dishes and he cut his hand
open and had to go to the emergency room downstairs from us. And get his
hands stitched up. So, so it was kind of stressful in the hospital, so I
just wanted to go home, but everyone after that, I just wanted to stay as
long as possible because I loved having the nurses take care of me. Can
you um talk a little bit about the postpartum? Yeah, so, um, with my first
one, I just knew I couldn't sleep and I knew I worried a lot about things
, but it wasn't terrible and it went away after a couple of months. With
my second one, it was really intense and I wasn't sure if it was because I
had a girl and with female hormones. I'm not really sure, but I, um. I
wasn't eating. I wasn't sleeping, and it lasted for a while, so I actually
went to a naturopathic lady who helped me to balance my hormones out, and
that helped after about a month of taking certain herbs. It totally helped
me. But then with my third one, I tried that again, but I think I got the
wrong combination of uh hormones and so I just got worse so then I went on
um medication. I went on an antidepressant. And I stayed on that for a
little while. So besides the eating and sleeping aspect, um, did you find
that, I mean, were you sad? I was really sad. It was just kind of like.
Being like the really bad PMS days you have before your period, but
intensified and all the time. So it was like I was always thinking things
that like everything was a bigger deal than it should have been and I just
would fly off the handle and be sad and cry about things and or get really
upset really easily and it was like I knew that it wasn't normal, but it
was hard. I didn't know what to do about it because I'd never experienced
that before and no one I knew had experienced it and And I, I remember
with my daughter, my second, I, I, it was just, I remember being in a
really dark place and I just had to, you know, figure out what to do and I
was really glad when I, I figured out how to balance my hormones, but I
also learned um through those experiences that it wasn't just hormonal, it
was also I went to counseling and it was also about the way I view things
and the way the self talk. I don't know if you've ever experienced in
counseling, but I went to counseling, um. After my 2nd 1. And it did help
me. It helped me to just understand. The uh Like just the way I think, you
know, and change some of those habits. It's called um.
I forget what it's called, but it's some kind of therapy that has to do
with changing your cognitive something therapy. Sorry, that's not very
helpful, but it it it it helps me to understand myself and it helped me to
understand other people and since I've had that therapy and I've gone
through postpartum depression and. And you know a divorce and all the
emotional things I've gone through. I've really been able to understand
myself a lot more and understand others and help a lot of other people
that have gone through some of the same things. So I actually feel like it
was a blessing to go through those things even though it was really,
really hard because I didn't understand why I was just so sad and anxious
all the time. So, so it was a hard time. I think that postpartum
depression and anxiety is something. That is not talked about enough, and
I know you're doing this project to help talk about birth stories, but I
think that's one aspect of birth stories that is completely surprising to
women when they experience it because they don't know that they don't know
to expect it and maybe it's more commonly talked about now, but when I
went through it it wasn't and I didn't understand what was happening, what
to do, and it was it was pretty rough. Now I think when you after you have
a child and you're going for your like 6 week follow up, there's like a
question like a Q&A thing that happens that they can pinpoint like, are
you sleeping well? Are you eating like normal? Are you having negative
thoughts or something, you know what I mean? And that is. is where they
start to find that you know people are experiencing it. But 6 weeks is a
long time to go through that, you know, to go through postpartum anxiety
and depression when you don't understand what's happening to you for 6
weeks and you don't know that it's something you can get help with
medically, you know, you just think it's emotions and what's wrong with me
and. You know, so it's it's it's tough. I think it's it's great to have
support of other women that have been through the same thing and can help
you to cope, you know, just to talk to and to cry to, to say, hey, this is
going on, this is going on. Oh, that same thing happened to me, you know,
and just know that they're not the only one struggling. With emotional
things and things that their husband and you know just everything that you
go through after you have a baby it's not easy and they don't tell you
that because you know I think about my girls and when I talk about having
a baby and most you know I have 3 girls and they say they don't want to
have a baby because they're worried about going through that pain. I mean
I think as they get older they'll be fine, but I think you know I don't
want to tell them about everything that I had to go through because
they'll never want to have a baby, so I'm sure my mom. had the same
attitude. She didn't want to tell me everything she had to go through
because it's a lot, but I think, you know, even though going, you go
through so much when you have a baby, it It kind of Purifies you and makes
you ready to be a mom. You work so hard for that little person and you
work so hard to become less of a selfish person that it's like you almost
have to go through that like refining fire in order to be the person you
can be and to be the good mom that you know you can be. So I don't regret
any of the experiences I've gone through, you know, as a mom and and all
the emotional stuff because I know it's made me who I am. So It's
beautiful. That was really beautiful. That was great. Um, Yeah, that was
put really well. Do you want to, did you touch on all the birds that you
wanted to mention, or did you want to elaborate a little bit more on I
think I've touched on all of them.
Yeah, do you have any more questions you want to ask me? The only thing I
would say, and we've been asking people, but you kind of touched on it
would be we're breaking these up into themes, so we're asking the
participants to kind of summarize their experiment experiment experience
and um like a word or a small grouping of words. Um, so my experience with
birthing. I, you know, even just thinking about what I said, I think
refining is probably the word that I would use. Because it
I guess I want to share one more thing along the lines, um, I think.
Going through the birthing process, it's like I remember thinking before I
had any kids, why does a mom have to go through so much pain to get a
child here but I think it's kind of like it's it's like a a preparation
for what you're gonna go through for the next 20 years. It's not, it's not
physical pain, but it's emotional pain and it's, it's almost like it's
testing you and preparing you to see if you can really. You know, cut it
and, and be, be the mom that your kids need for you to be and as you. You
know, when kids are little and they get a little cut on their hand, it's
like the biggest deal to them, you know, but as they go through more pain
, a little cut on their finger isn't a big deal and as you go through um
childbirth, the other things aren't as big of a deal, so it's like you
have to have that intense experience to recognize that the other stuff
isn't a big deal and that you can do it and and. Going through hard things
makes you realize how much strength you have inside, and I think you have
to be able to access that strength to be the best mom that you can be and
to be the mom that your kids need and that's why I think the birthing
childbirth is such an important thing and how do you explain that to a
child, you know, that someday maybe going through the birth experience,
you know, you know, my daughters, I can't explain that to them like, well
, it'll make you a better mom going through all that pain, but that's what
it is, it makes you a better mom. And like you said, it also will help
them to discover this internal strength that they may not know they even
have, you know, and this kind of reserves. Yeah. I think that's good. OK.Mm