This is Boris Solis interviewing uh Kathleen Walsh on August 12th at 2:30.
OK, OK, we'll go ahead and get started. So, um, could you maybe just tell
me a little bit about yourself to kind of get us started here. Um, I grew
up uh in a military family. Uh my dad retired here to Arizona in the early
70s. I have three other siblings, but I have to say that during my, most
of my childhood. Uh, I felt like I was an only child because I felt so
different from my family and my siblings, and if it wasn't for the
resemblance, I really thought I was maybe left on the doorstep really I
just felt very. Very different. I felt different in school. I felt, and
I'm sure that's with a lot of people, but at that time I didn't have,
there was no way of uh socially connecting with other people maybe that
felt the same way. So you did feel pretty isolated. And um so I was pretty
much uh uh on my own. I did have friends but never I would never form any
really close attachments because of just the the kind of the gypsy
lifestyle that we we led I never really got to form any close attachments
to people because we moved a lot so um that continued on through my um. Uh
, early teens and um late, well in my adulthood, and I um uh when I could
, I finally decided that um when I could financially, I finally decided I
would live on, on my own. I, I can't describe to people how Comfortable
and how good it feels for me to be by myself. Yet I am human. I do need
human contact and that's the kind of the, the Oh, what's the word I wanna
use um. Is conundrum a good word? Because that's what comes to mind that I
want to be with people, but I don't. It's like I want to be with people
and when I am, even I do best one on one, always have. Never wanted to be
in a group of many girlfriends, just wanted to have one girlfriend. I
don't know where that comes from. I've just always been that way. So when
I was um A young, uh, in my early twenties, I was living on my own in
Phoenix, which I love. I would love to come back to live in Phoenix. I was
with uh friends uh uh casually that you know that we're getting married
now and you know they were mid-twenties now everybody seemed to be getting
married. And uh I still didn't want that. I had boyfriends. I never wanted
to be married. I, when I was younger, I never dreamed about my wedding
dress. I never dreamed about my wedding. I never. Never. I read romance
novels, so I mean I, I did have a a feeling of, you know, being with
someone and having that that that romance but never wanted to be married
and as I got older into my late twenties, all of a sudden it was the
biological clock just went, you know, off the, the alarm was going off in
my head like all the time and I thought. I don't want to be married, and
it never occurred to me that it was wrong to have a child and not be
married. It was like, you know, I wanted to have a stable job so I could
live on my own. I achieved that. I wanted to have my home on my own. I
achieved that and now I want a child, so I will. And I wasn't thinking, oh
, I'm just going to go look for somebody to donate some man to donate, you
know, a sperm donor. I really wanted to be with somebody, but it just, it
, it, it didn't work out. As far as being married or being um You know, uh
, uh, finding someone, getting married, that how that progression works. I
had a boyfriend and uh it just so happened that I You know, uh, over the
course of like 2 or 3 months, and I think in the back of my head I really
that's what I really was looking for a sperm donor and I was telling
myself, oh no, I really would like to be married. I don't want to, you
know, but anyway, I met her dad and um we dated for a little while and
then we split up and then I found out I was pregnant and. Um, the doctor
actually, uh, I didn't seem so excited when, you know, he told me. I
already knew that I was, and, um, he said, well, you know, do you, do you
want to continue with this? I said, I almost said no and I said, you know
what, let me think about it. Let me, let me, I want to think about it. And
then a week went by, 2 weeks went by, a month went by, I went, oh, it's
too late. I'm just gonna go ahead and, and, and, um. Uh, I, and once I
made that commitment, I never really seemed, um, like, uh, like it was
wrong, like not to be married or and my friends were, and sometimes I was
envious of that because they had somebody there for them, but I did try to
get back together with her dad and it it. We lived together after she was
born, but it lasted maybe a year and then I moved out and she has not seen
him since she was 18 months. We have not seen him. I don't even know if he
still lives in Phoenix. haven't had any contact, nothing.
Wow. Was it a really difficult breakup? It was, yes, it was. And and I Um
, through the years struggling, they were good, you know, I had, you know
, fairly good, um, uh, a really good job and, and, um, uh, financially
sometimes I was OK and so financially sometimes I I wasn't and at those
times I would think, well, I would like to go to court and. You know, and
then the thought of, of having that havoc or whatever back in my life
cause I, I grew up with a lot of uh yelling and screaming in the house and
all of that and I did not want that for my daughter. I just wanted so, so
, so many. Uh, so much better of a life for her than I had, and if it
meant not having a partner, which I began to think was maybe a, a, a flaw
in me or some kind of failing in me that I just could not, uh, I mentally
handle it or I, I don't know. I don't know. I, I never thought that at the
time, but as I got older and, and uh Hannah would ask me about her dad,
which didn't happen until she was in her teens, um, I thought, gosh, maybe
I, maybe I failed, maybe I should have been married, maybe I should have
had somebody here for her, you know, another, um, another, another parent
and so then I started to feel, you know, a little guilty about it, but.
But when I, I was so focused on, on raising her that I never really
thought about it until like I was with my girlfriend or whatever and and
then we get together, our kids were about the same age and I, you know,
she had a husband and that was, you know, I don't know, it just seemed
like a. I was looking for that perfect family life and I just, I, I would
be really envious sometimes and then other times I just when I was around
it and then when I wasn't, I was just so focused on, on, on taking care of
her that I didn't, um, never really thought about uh having uh uh uh a
partner but then, you know, I, I was in my 30s and um I I wanted to have
another child and I. I had a boyfriend at the time and I, I don't know. I
, I think it's got to be a flaw in me or something. It just, it just
doesn't work out. I don't know if it's like I see that I've I've picked
somebody that just isn't up to my caliber. I tend to pick guys who are
maybe a little bit, um, they don't have as good of a job or I feel like I
need to take care of them. And then once I'm uh realized oh I've made the
same mistake again, I, you know, it's, it's time to move on. I got tired
of, of going through that, so I finally decided I'm, I'm just done with
the boyfriends. I'm done with the, with the, you know, and by the time I
got to my late 30s, I figured I'm, I'm done. I'm gonna just have Hannah
and concentrate on her and, and, and, and it was, it was, it was good but
it's just my. Body going crazy again like wanting another child and once I
got past that I was good. I was good. It's really been interesting through
this process we've seen this a lot and heard a lot of women talk about
this sense of what an idealized experience is and then this kind of guilt
that comes along with not providing that. But oftentimes, you know, what
they had provided is this incredible home for their child and being a
wonderful role model and you know I mean it has such a sense of
independence too I I think that that has to have come from you. She's her
own person, 100%. 0, I know. And it it it broke my heart when she, I was
proud of her, but broke my heart when she, I mean, I wanted her to, but it
was that mixed feeling when she went away to college. And her, she
separated herself from me at that point completely, and I, I cried about
it a lot because she did not want me to come up. She, I understand it now
and even now thinking about it makes me want to cry, but she was breaking
away. She was like, I need to become my own person. I'm not, she would say
, you know, the mean things that teenagers say, I'm not your little doll
that you can just dress up and, and, and make like you make a, I'm not a
carbon copy of you. I'm not a. And now I see it, but then I, I didn't, you
know, and so we had a, uh, between the age of 13 and maybe um 18, it was a
really tough time because she was asserting her independence and I, she
was the most uh precious thing in the world to me and I just the thought
of anything bad happening to her and, and. You know, I, it was so funny. I
, uh, never had boyfriends in, in my teenage years, not until I graduated
high school. She had a boyfriend in junior high. She had a boyfriend in
high school that was all through high school and, um, I don't know, she's
just, uh, uh, now it's kind of come back around to where she wants me to
be there now, but now, but she moved back from flag and she moved in with
me and after a year, she says, I, I need my own space. If that was me
living with my that's why I left. I needed my own space. I could not even
be in that, not that her environment was bad, my environment was bad, but
um I, I understand it now and it's so much better that uh that um
apartment she has down there on Grand. That's a great place. I said, it is
so funny that you live between 15th Ave and 16th Ave. And when I bought my
house, it was on 16th Ave and um Uh, McDowell near the Coliseum, and I
love that neighborhood. I, I loved Phoenix. I lived in Phoenix five years
and then I thought, oh, this isn't a good neighborhood to raise my child.
I need to move back to the suburbs. Blah, I just, I just didn't know how
much I didn't, didn't uh like it till later on when she went to college
and I, I looked around and I went, you know, I, this is OK to raise a
child, but this is not. Not for me. I'm glad I did it, but in high school
she, she was even ready to move on. She wanted to be in a more vibrant,
more, um, you know, like Phoenix is that type of community the suburbs
were not for her and a lot of bad things happened to some of her friends
and, and, and one thing that really caused a, a, a, uh, what do you call
it a um. It was a really substantial event in her life and still causes
her a little bit of pain was one of her best friends who was her boyfriend
for a little bit dying and um uh some of her friends were into drugs, not
all of them, some of them a boy she was with in kindergarten they grew up
together. uh, he got into drugs and they have now since he is done with
that. He he he he does um. Uh, uh, uh, he had his a band and now he does
acoustic shows with another friend of hers from high school and they got
back together, you know, met and they played at Grant Street. That's great.
Yeah,
circle seems to be a very happy, well adjusted person. good relationship
with her mom.
So when you were with her father and those urges of wanting to have a baby
, which I'm fully aware of, um, did you at that point, were you not using
protection or anything? You just thought, we'll just see what happens?
That's what made me think I, I, I was looking for that to happen. I did
not, and I would always use the excuse of I don't like taking uh telling
myself this. I don't like taking the birth control and uh the pills
because they always made me, I don't know, I'd switch on and off to
different brands. They always made me feel like not good. So I didn't like
him. I, I certainly didn't want anything inserted inside of me as far as
diaphragm, any of those, any of those things. I, I, it was either gonna be
birth control or uh Or condoms, but uh now at that time, no. So I, I'm
pretty sure that's what I was looking for to happen. It's interesting,
your subconscious seems to play a role, you know, and even postponing, you
know, um. Alternatives, you know, to having the continuing with the
pregnancy or not, you know, that maybe subconsciously you just really
wanted to continue with that. Yeah, yeah, I was um um. I was uh uh afraid
that um.
That I actually wouldn't get pregnant. I wasn't afraid of becoming
pregnant, so I, I just, uh, I was afraid that, you know, I don't know, I,
your, your hormones and just I didn't realize what how much of a control
it had over my body and my mind at that time. It just really, you know,
like uh you think you're in love or you're, you're, you know, wanting a
baby or you're. Uh, wanting a boyfriend or whatever, it's just so not, uh
, your head is not in control of. Of everything and so it was more um just
a drive for me to, you know, I must get this accomplished, you know, uh
before I never had set a date like oh I have to be, you know, a mother by
this date, but I'm, I'm glad that it didn't happen to me and I was, I told
my dog this. I was promiscuous after high school. I never had a boyfriend
and I had one after high school and I used to go out. Uh, party. I never
really did drugs. I drank and I was very promiscuous, so I'm surprised
that it didn't happen before then. I'm surprised I didn't wind up with a
much worse, you know, I had a couple like the mild STDs which caused me to
stop being promiscuous, but when that happened, but um, yeah, I um. I, uh
, was just, uh, I heard all the talk in my teenage years and girls had
boyfriends and all this talk and I never knew what was, you know, I always
felt like the odd person out like I was never let in on this club and I'm
glad I, and I've told Hannah this. I'm glad it didn't happen then. I'm
glad it didn't happen in my mid-twenties because I was being selfish. I
was, uh, being, uh, she said I was a bad girl. I was being a bad girl. I
wasn't ready for that and I wouldn't have been a good parent. So by the
time I got to my late 20s, I, I don't know, things had changed for me. I
was, I, I quit all that pretty much when I was about her age, now when I'm
24, 25. So in the years prior prior to having her, those 4 or 5 years, I
was, um, um, I was more uh more grown up and more done with being really
selfish. That's great. That's interesting. So then. Um, can you talk a
little bit about your experience with pregnancy?
Um, I thought before I went to the doctor that I might be, but I thought,
no, I've never been up to this point. Why should it happen now? And then I
remember I was out. I went to lunch with one of my friends and I went in
the bathroom and I looked and I saw blood and I thought, uh, I'm starting
my period and then there was no more after that and and then I started
feeling a little, you know, I just knew something was. Off so I said I
gotta go to the doctor because I, I'm pretty sure and then when he told me
, I just, you know, I'm sure a lot of, I just wasn't excited so I um, I,
um, you know, like I said, I kept going and going and until I was past the
point of, of no return and then, um, people at work were really my
girlfriend and I at work, we worked in the same office we were pregnant
pretty much the same time and they were really. Really good about they
gave us a, a, a baby shower and um I had a really the first start of it
just like every I'm sure a lot of women was I was sick a lot staying and
and just um uh nauseous a lot and uh you know, staying home from work a
few times, not much, but I worked up until my 9th month. And um uh it was
a really good uh pregnancy. I, but my ninth month, I was done. I was, I
had swelled up my, I retained so much water. I, my average weight was
between 1 back then, 1135, 145, so I was pretty thin. By the time I was in
my 9th month, I was almost 200 pounds. Uh, my legs were, were, I didn't
have ankles. My legs were huge and I. I waddled and I and it was hot. It
was May going into June and I was, I was miserable, but that was the time
I was, I, I don't know what I thought I was doing. I went in my 6th and
7th month I decided I need to sell this house. I really don't want to be
here with, I thought that even before then, but I really, I got a realtor.
And then I started doing just little things thinking I was not pregnant,
I mowed the yard. I started bleeding. I had to go to the emergency room
and my girlfriend was wanting to You know, she was really angry at me.
She's like, you're probably having a miscarriage, and I was just horrified.
I'm like, what was I thinking trying to be out mowing the yard when I'm,
I was probably like maybe 4 or 5 months pregnant. Like, wait a minute, I
really start need to take this seriously now and stop, you know, messing
around like this. And so I was fine. They sent me home, no more, you know
, really strenuous activity. Although I do remember exercising in the
early months. I was still exercising then. But I don't know how some women
do it today when they're like huge and they're exercising. No, no, not, I
couldn't have done that. But I have to tell you, I did one more stupid
thing. Um, the house was on the market and it looked like it was gonna be
sold and there was, um. Uh, I had a, it was a little 1920s bungalow. I
love, I love and I miss that house to this day, and it had an arch over
the, the driveway and there was like a little crack in the arch and I was
like, you know, the house just doesn't look perfect and I didn't, you know
, it didn't occur to me that I could go ask one of my neighbors or anybody
for help. I got a ladder. I put it up there. I was like 8 months now and I
spackled it and I was painting. And when I was done, I looked down and I
went. What am I doing up here on this ladder? Am I crazy? So I got back
down and I, and I, uh, but then I, I had friends help me move. I was
lifting stuff to move. I, I sold the house and I moved into an apartment.
I was just doing really Uh, although exercise is strenuous, I don't know
how some women do that, but I was moving and lifting things and just
pretty much right up until, you know, the end, and then the doctor gives
you a, uh, you know, a, a date, and that date came and went, so. I can
tell you about what happened after that. They called me in. They said
we're gonna have um uh the what do they call it to make you go into labor
because nothing was happening. It was a week and a half had gone by, uh,
since the predicted date, which was the end of May, and they gave me, um,
the Pitocin. And I laid there for 3, I mean, I went home every day. I laid
there for a few hours every day, listening to women all around me give
birth, going, oh, maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow, and I could just, you
know, I could hear all the sounds you make of giving birth, you know, the
natural way I'd been to birth classes with my girlfriend. I didn't have,
you know, probably the only one in there without a man, and, um, uh. But
I'm telling you, it just didn't, it didn't matter to me still, it still
didn't matter. And um so I went back the next day, put the needle in my
arm again, listen to the women all around me giving birth and then, you
know, then like crying like come on I just want this to happen because I
went through the classes. I'm like, OK, I'm gonna do this and do this and
do this just like they said. They said come back tomorrow. Nothing's
happened. I had no contractions. I had nothing, and I was as big as a
house, miserable, mostly because miserable because I was so swollen, and I
went, came back the next day, needle in the arm, and finally got to be
around 11 o'clock and I'd been there 2 hours, 3 hours already, and they
said, you know, this isn't happening we're gonna, we're gonna go to
C-section and I was like. Good, good, because by then I was just so tired
and emotionally tired of hearing all the women giving birth but me. So
they, you know, and I, I had no idea what a C-section was because, I mean
, I, I kind of knew, but I didn't know what exactly was involved because I
wasn't going to have that. I was going to have natural childbirth. So you
know, they, you know, and it just happened, boom, boom, boom. And um
actually um that day her dad was there, her dad and uh my girlfriend were
were there and um. They put the needle in my uh needle in and I mean it
happened so fast. Noon they said around 12 they said we're going to
C-section and she was born at 125, so it was fast. I mean wheel me in. I
mean everything went numb, wheel me in and they let they let her dad stay
in there and um. I just remember, uh, smelling burning flesh and going,
I'm gonna throw up, give me something. And I kept saying, I'm gonna throw
up, I'm gonna throw up. And they said, give her more, whatever it was,
anti-nausea medication cause I did not want to barf on my. Self or because
that's why I didn't know they would give you anything. I thought I was
just going to barf on myself and I was like, I'm gonna throw up. I'm gonna
throw up. I kept saying that and finally he, you know, they gave me
something and I felt a little bit better and it seemed just that smell
because he used a laser and they, they, they don't, they didn't go up and
down like most. I did the bikini one where they give you and, and, but the
, the laser was the, the, I thought they were gonna cut me. He used a
laser and that was the, the burning. Flesh smell that was making me sick.
And um it just seemed to like go really fast and pretty soon they were,
they, they, you know, they reached up and they, they like pushed and, and
um her, her, I remember her head popped out or so they, they say they got
, you know, I couldn't see and um she just, just kind of went like kind of
like a cry like. You know, like, why, why are you doing this? Like, uh,
like put me back, like, uh, it was like kind of a e cry and then, you know
, then she came out and then she really started crying and then, you know
, it was um uh it was just me and another lady in the, the hospital and it
was somebody that I had gone through the birth class with and um The first
night I must have hit the button for meds a million times. I was in such
pain and they didn't bring her to me until the next day and I didn't want
her to take her away. I'm in pain, take her away, but they got you up
right away. They made me take a shower, they made me walk, which I could
barely do, and um they brought her to me to to start nursing, but I'm
telling you the first couple of days I didn't want her. And then because I
was just so like out of it. And then by the end of the 2nd day I heard her
crying and the, the nurses, she, she was in the, the little container, um
, and I, at the nurses's station or wherever they had her and um so I went
to find her because, you know, it was just the crying was like, oh my God
, that's my baby. I was like kind of coming out of it and so I kind of
walked down till I found somebody. I said, could you, could you bring her
in now? And I had a really hard time nursing and a hard time. You know, um
, I don't know, I just, I kind of knew what to do automatically, but then
again, I was like just having the, the C-section. I didn't realize what
major surgery that was. I didn't know. I just thought, oh, just simple,
and I was in a lot of pain, but um by the 3rd day I was good and. And then
they actually let me stay a 4th. They wanted to kick me out after the 3rd
, but the doctor said I could stay a 4th. By the 4th day I was, I was
doing, I was doing pretty good. They, it was really nice. They, um, you
know, uh, um.
Almost said the husband, my boyfriend came to see me and we had, they
brought us a nice dinner and we had champagne and you know it was really
nice. It was a really, it was a really nice experience. I mean, I didn't,
I didn't like ask for any upgraded services or anything. It was just
something that they did back then, you know, they asked if you wanted. I'm
like, sure, yeah, that sounds good, make me feel better and. And when I
left, uh, the hospital, that I had to sit in a wheelchair. I did not want
to leave with her. I didn't want to take her out into that world. I did
not. I was like, oh no, she's so clean and beautiful. I do not want to
leave this hospital. I want to just raise her hair, you know, it's just
like crazy thoughts going through your head and I just, I just thought
that the world outside was just so dirty and nasty and, and I didn't want
her to, to, to touch her, you know, but. Yeah, it was really quick for
having to wait those those days and expecting that that would happen and
just it was a whole different, whole different thing, but um uh it was
kind of a blur actually it just went so fast. Do you remember the um
hospital room or yeah yeah yeah it was it was nice because it was um. It
was not, it was, I was by myself and it was, there were not a lot of
people there that day. He and the other little boy were the only two born
within that 3 day uh span that I recall that were there, yeah. Oh, it was
I was in an operating room. So was your boyfriend at the time like
videotaping or did you? No, I didn't get to see anything, and he took my
only one person could be in there, so he took the pictures, which are OK.
I have pictures of them holding her up with the umbilical cord still
attached and her on the warming table. And but nothing, you know, her
emerging any anything like that. He, we didn't have a video camera and um
and another thing I never got was the my ultrasounds. I didn't know you
could, and they never offered back then. They never offered them. You had
to ask and it didn't occur to me until after she was born. They said, did
you get the ultrasounds? Some of my friends said, no, we'll go back and
they couldn't find them or what so I never got those. But yeah, they, you
had to ask back then. There was a. Not anything like today where it's like
3D and they they offer them to or they automatically give them to you but
yeah um yeah it was it was an operating room and uh there were two
obstetricians that he had somebody else working with him and I think two
nurses and then the anesthesiologist and, and uh my boyfriend. So yeah,
and my family came down later but they're they're, they're strange. It
wasn't like a. You know, like, oh, she had a baby. OK, let's go home. You
know, it wasn't like a big, big deal for them. Were they really involved
afterward at all? Yes, actually, uh, yes, my parents, uh, surprisingly
were. They said, you know, what do you want to do when you go back to work
? And I said, I'm just going to hire somebody to come in and And watch her
and um they I was living still in Phoenix but I had sold my house and I I
wasn't gonna buy another uh I just didn't want to do that at the time and
I uh was living in an apartment and uh they said well we're gonna move to
Phoenix to the same apartments because they were retired and they were
living in uh actually had just sold their house and we're kind of nomads
or whatever gypsies and living in an apartment. They said we'll move to
Phoenix and we'll. Um, take care of her for you. So I was working nights.
I was working 11 o'clock at night to 8 in the morning, and they would only
watch her. I would come home and I would, uh, they would watch her from
when I got home till about 11 o'clock or noon, and then they would bring
her back to me. So I was only getting like 4 or 5 hours of sleep. I was so
tired. So tired and uh but uh they, they really helped me save, save money
and I felt that they were she was um safe with with them even though I
don't think they did so lot taking care of me, but they, they, I just felt
she was safer with, with them. So I mean they took care of me OK. It was
the just the atmosphere, the, the. It was a long time ago and they people
treated or raised kids differently then it wasn't, it was a lot different.
So uh um I was um more attentive to her and what I tell people when I
tell um or tell Hannah anyway and I've told a couple of my girlfriends
this that is I. I wanted to, I wanted to raise her like, um, like I wanted
to be raised, you know, so I guess I I use that as a Uh, what do you want
to say? I, I use that as a kind of a guideline to taking care of her, but
, um, And I don't know, I, I had, I had fun doing, uh, it's not
necessarily things that um. Uh, you know, things that were around when I
was a child, but like I enrolled her in just uh like Jimboree or, you know
, things like that. And it's so funny because even then she had a
personality where she would join in with the other kids. She would go like
uh they were doing a song in a circle and I could never get her to join in.
She always wanted to be off on her own. She was independent even then, so
yeah. I am, I, uh, they helped me out with her quite a bit, quite a bit.
So uh that was their gift to me. I mean, um, I never had a good
relationship. It was just a very strained relationship because I didn't
want to be a part of the the family. I wanted to move as soon as I pretty
much as soon as I graduated from high school. I wanted to get. Away
because I wanted some peace and quiet and to not have because I, I knew
all of that was wrong like, you know, shaming kids or uh hitting kids or I
knew all that was wrong even when I was a little kid, I knew that was
wrong. So I wanted to get away from that and I never did that with, with
Hannah. She is only one time in the whole time she was growing up, we were
in Toys R Us and she was tired and She didn't, she, she, it was back in
those days you could play on the equipment they had set up and she was
having a blast in one of the little houses. It's time to go. We gotta go
home now. No, I don't want to go and I put her in the cart and it's the
only time I've seen her throw a fit. She's like shaking the car and I
don't wanna go. I don't wanna go. And I leaned really close to her. I said
, stop. I leaned really close to her. I said, if you don't stop this now,
you're not getting anything for your birthday. And she was really, she was
like looking at me like, what? Like, did you, did my mom just say that to
me? She was only like maybe 54 or 5. I said stop it. you know, I did it
through clenched teeth like stop it now, you know, because people were
looking and I didn't want that. But I never hit her but I was really mean
when I hissed that in her in her ear. But um no, it was a She was, she was
a blast to raise. I had so much fun, so much fun. We, she was like a
little adult and she was, I would talk to her like an adult and we just
had the best time. But yeah, I, uh, all those pictures I look at and I
look at her now, I'm like, stop growing up, you know, I'm proud of her at
the same time, but I miss those days. It was good times. That's that's
really wonderful. I think, um, gosh, I would just love it if I only had to
hear something like that.
How many, how many children do you have? Oh, OK. Oh, OK, because I was
gonna say if I'd had that second one, it might have been a different story.
I don't think I had the patience. I really don't think so, um, or else he
just knows that we're always bluffing, but um. So no, it's great. I think
that's a really remarkable story and you're a good talker, which is good.
Oh, I don't mean to be, I hope I'm not going off the subject. OK. So we're
asking, we're categorizing these stories into themes and asking women to
come up with maybe a word that encompasses their experience. The the birth
or just having her. Oh my gosh. It's a challenge. Um, oh God, this, this
word is used a lot. But I'm ah life changing.
Just Life changing. I, there's lots of other words. I, I, I don't want to
use. I'm gonna use life changing because all the other words are overused
. I, I. You know, uh, it was amazing before amazing was uh really used a
word, but it was for me, um, life changing cause I. It, um, I really liked
being a child because just of the the new experiences, but I, you know, I
, I, it's different when you get to experience it through your child's
eyes. So Oh God, it was, it was just her fascination with we we were
members of the, the zoo. We'd go to the zoo all the time. Just her
fascination with the animals or seeing or be when she was younger, being
able to point things out and being like Like you're amazing mom. Wow. It
sure beats that later on in the teen years. God, you're so stupid. Don't
you know anything? Don't you know how to use a computer? Uh, no, and I
still have trouble. Um, or, you know, the games were coming out and her
and I would try to get you, just forget it. I'm just gonna do it. You
don't know how to do it. I'm like, you're right, I don't. I need you to
teach me. I don't have time for that. I don't have time. Why can't you
play? Cause I can't, Hannah. So for a while, it was hard to go from being
the hero to like, oh God, you're so dumb, don't you know anything? I'm
glad that's over with. That was hard. That was really hard. I can only
imagine. Oh gosh, it was hard being the, the, you know, somebody's got to
be. I mean, if like maybe if there's both parents, there's like one's that
one has to be good cop one's bad cop. I had to be both so but um it didn't
really bother me until I did off and on when I would think of going to,
you know, I went to lawyers like 2 or 3 different times and paid them to
sit there and be told that, you know, if you get money from him he's going
to have to see her and I said um I said no, forget it, unless you're gonna
guarantee me thousands a month, which I know that will never happen, no,
and I get up and leave and then. I'd feel bad that it didn't work out or
she didn't have another parent, but, um, mostly, uh, it, it kind of hit me
when she went to NAU and one of her professors kind of became like a for
to her uh uh uh like a surrogate father figure. So and then she would
started talking to me about her dad and I said, you know, he probably
still lives in Phoenix, you can look him up if you want. I said, it's up
to you. I said, personally, you're not a good person. But I have a
different relationship with him than he's your biological father. He never
was around, so he's not really, you know, what I, I, I would never really
bad mouth him. I mean like really bad, but I would say, you know, he
wasn't around. Uh, and I, and personally, I think he's a horrible person.
Uh, what I found out after living with him for a while, not a good person
, uh, but, um. It's so funny, the videos that I have from back then or him
playing with her, you know, she would ask him always to To, uh, like he
would pick her up and flip her around, you know, she was about a year old
before we split up and so like it on the surface it looks like a good
thing, but it was, it was not a good person. He was not a good person. And
I just have a feeling that his negativity and uh. Just some of the things
that I found, he told me about himself, like he had like it seemed like he
had some, uh, just some serious mental problems just from him, you know,
growing up the way he did and uh more so than I ever felt I had. So anyway
, she chose not to look him up, but, um, you know, I said, you know, he,
once in a while we're driving down, he used to live over by Cano Park and
we, we'll be driving that way and I said, you know, I used to live over
here if you wanna go. She said, Nah. No, that's OK. I'm good. I'm good. I
just think after all now 25 or 24 years, it would be like, what's the
point? I mean, I don't know. He has never reached out to try and contact
her ever, offered anything ever. So he he was just praying that I would go
away and not, he, he told me one of the things that I thought was, you
know, part of the, the bigger picture of him being just an overall bad
person was, uh, if you ever try to get a penny out of me, I'll make your
life miserable. So I, I will never ever ever cross your path again, and I
hope to God you don't cross, and he didn't, he was, I never heard from him
again. That always amazes me. Yeah, his name so she can. Oh yeah, yeah. In
fact, her name was his last name. I had it changed when she was about,
well, after we split up, she was almost 2. I went to court and had it
changed to mine. I figured, why not, why not? It bothered me that we
wouldn't have the same. Name, you know what I mean? If I was gonna raise
her, it wasn't like an eagle thing or anything like that. It was just,
it's just better if we have the same last name, just better, you know. So
yeah, I even changed her middle name too because her middle name was uh
his, his aunt's middle name, I mean, his aunt's first name and I just.
Hannah was my, my choice, and the middle name was his. Of course, she had
his last name because he signed the birth certificate. I just, I'm gonna
change anything related to him. So yeah, in fact, I, I heard from his
mother, uh, quite a bit because I had met her when Hannah was little and
she lived out of state. She kept trying to contact me and I wouldn't
contact her back after we split up because I didn't want him to know
anything about. I felt like he didn't deserve. To know anything about
about her and you know uh when I was talking to somebody one day about you
know how I kind of felt bad and about him not being in her life or
whatever and and something to that effect and they said, you know, uh,
he's the one who missed out. He missed everything. Everything and him
trying to say that it's not his child. Oh my God. She looked so much like
him when she was born. Well, uh, her bone structure. The cheeks and her
ears stick out like his ears, and she has um the spacing of her eyes. His
were wide, mine are more closer together and uh yeah, did look a lot when
she was first born, I have pictures of myself when I was first born we
look exactly alike, but when she got a little bit older, she looked, oh my
God, she looks so much like him and. Now it doesn't seem to be so much the
case, but um, no, she has no desire to contact. Oh that's me. It's OK.
Sorry, sorry,
sorry. No, that's interesting to say the least, my goodness.
Well, is there anything that you'd feel like we've missed? No, I think
I've told you. Yeah, yeah, and I didn't, I thought it would be kind of
hard to get started, but you the questions and we'll get, it'll be it'll
come to a really good story, I think. Oh, go ahead and hit stop.