This is Boris Elise interviewing Catherine Brennan for the Creative Push
project on June 24, 2015 at 12:10. OK. So why don't we start with um maybe
taking us back to around the time that you were pregnant if there's any,
you know, extreme weather or like events or anything that you remember
just to kind of situate us in time. So, I got pregnant in July, so it was
a little hot. And I don't really remember it being extraordinarily hot for
my pregnancy. I was lucky that it was that I gave birth in April, so it
wasn't hot yet. Um, I don't remember any big weather events or anything
that. Happened um. Mostly I just remember being uncomfortable.
And we talk about that, the pregnancy part, the conception, was it a
planned pregnancy? It was planned. Um, we were I, I really wanted another
child, and I finally convinced my husband after 65 years of waiting that
we needed to have another one, so I was lucky that um that he agreed to
that, um, so it wasn't a surprise. Um, so I was. I was happy that it ended
up happening and we were trying to do it to plan to have the baby in March
because we're all March birthdays, but he ended up being April, so we were
a month off, but it was still I'm still happy. Was it a quick conception?
I mean, after you. Yeah, so we, yeah, we tried to have it so that he would
have been born in March. That would have been a June conception, but he
was July, so it was just a month, a month off, but. Yeah, still good. So,
um, why don't you walk us through the actual pregnancy card? OK, so I was
not. Um, Nauseous at all with my first son. I didn't have morning sickness
or anything, which was pretty lucky with him. I was sick the entire 9
months. It was not fun. I think part of it was I was diagnosed with
gestational diabetes. So before I realized or was tested for that, I was
just eating whatever I wanted. And I think when my sugar would spike, it
would make me sick. So I had a lot of of nausea and I never, it was weird
because one day pineapple would make me feel better and one day pineapple
would make me feel really sick, so it was very not fun trying to figure
out what I could eat and not eat and then. Once I was diagnosed with
gestational diabetes, that cut out all the carbs that were kind of making
me feel better, so I couldn't eat English muffins or crackers or any of
that fun stuff. It was, yeah, pretty strict and all of the. Fun sugar
testing that goes along with that, so. So what does that mean? Um, can you
give us some specifics about what that actually means for people that
don't know? Yeah, so gestational diabetes is a type of diabetes that only
happens while you're pregnant, and it's basically a hormone induced
diabetes, that means your body isn't able to process sugars in food the
way your body would normally would. So instead of using the sugars to
create energy, it kind of just gets stored inside your body and kind of
creates a toxic environment and makes your blood sugar shoot up too high,
which can cause in really terrible cases, the death of your baby, or it
can cause your baby to be really large and have heart problems and that
kind of thing. So it's just something that. You, it, it needed to be
controlled. Luckily I didn't have to take medication. I know that some
women do have to take medication to control the levels, the blood sugar
levels. So it was, um, yeah, it was not fun cause it was a, there was a
little device that I had to prick my finger with 4 times a day to make
sure my blood sugar was staying where it needed to. But I'm glad that I
don't have to do that all the time, but it did also help with um keeping
my weight down. I only gained 20 pounds because I couldn't eat anything. I
like was basically paleo diet, like meat and veggies and nuts as snacks
and that kind of stuff. So how much did he weigh? He was 7 pounds, 7
ounces, so he's normal, but I think that was part of it because of the
diet. Like if I had been like, oh, the diet, whatever, I can eat whatever
I want, he probably would have been bigger,
but. You had him and then you were like, I had 10 pounds to lose. Yeah. So
Yeah.
Um, OK, so then, um.
So let's see, is there any other details about the pregnancy that you want
to mention?
Um, Um, I worked in an office during my pregnancy, which made it. A little
difficult. I, I don't know, maybe not. It gave me more structure, so I
knew when I was supposed to eat and then I, I had a schedule. I would
leave work and I would work out and all these things and. I was lucky that
I was able to work out the entire time. I know a lot of moms are not able
to do that, so that was. Um, helpful emotionally too, I think to be able
to go and like work out some stress or whatever at the gym after work, so.
So at what point did you decide like you have a plan, you know, for the
birth? Actually, I knew before I even conceived that it would be natural.
I had tried to do it with my first son, naturally, I did this course
called Hypno Birthing. And I think because of the hospital I gave birth in
with my first son, it was very clinical. They didn't want. I brought in a
birth plan. They didn't want to stick to the birth plan the whole time we
were just fighting with them, so I knew I didn't want to give birth there
again and I didn't want to have it with an OB. I wanted to try it with a
midwife. But my insurance didn't want to pay for the midwife um clinic.
There's a um. It's more like you give birth at the center, the birthing
center. They weren't willing to pay for that, but in the hospital, I ended
up giving birth and they have a midwife clinic in the hospital. So because
the hospital was in plan, that meant that the midwives were in my plan,
which was nice, and I didn't have to write a birth plan. I just told them
I wanted to go all natural. They knew everything I wanted before I even
said what I wanted, which was awesome. And I just liked how hands off they
were. Like if I didn't need something and they didn't try to push me to do
it and um it was a really great process and I never felt pressured to do
anything I didn't want to do. So did you meet with them before
you went to them? So I actually switched from my OB. To the midwife clinic
at around 5 months pregnant. And then they were basically in exchange for
my OB from there on to my birth. And then the Woman, the midwife that
ended up giving or going through my birth with me, she, I had never
actually met her before because there were 8 midwives in the clinic, and I
, I had another midwife, but she was still great. I was still really happy
with it, so. This is how my son would he couldn't be on my body. He always
had to be projected like away from me, but still held in emotion. She was
really funny, but I always get to kiss his back. Yeah. Um, OK, great.
Let's see, see.
When you said you didn't like being pregnant before, was it because of the
throwing up mainly and the nausea? I think I didn't like being pregnant. I
don't, I like being fit and in shape, and I like fitting into my clothes
and I just don't, I feel gross, you know, I just feel like It's not even
fat, it's just like. This extra weight on you and it's just annoying. And
yeah, the being sick all the time and the heartburn and all of that put
together and just that your clothes that you like don't fit and then you
have like I feel like. Um, maternity clothes are hideous. So like there's
no, even the nicest ones are really, I wouldn't choose them over non
maternity clothes. So I think that's the hard part about it for me like I
just. I like being a normal size and all that stuff, so it's nice to hear
that verbally expressed because I think a lot of women feel that way and
so it's one of the nice things about this archive, you know, um, yeah, and
it's not vanity, it's just like you're You liked who you were and you
liked your body before. Exactly, you know, your stuff,
yeah, that was hard psychologically just seeing that change every day. Um
, but you didn't put on much weight that you were lucky about that. OK, so
maybe you can start talking about like when you first knew you were in
labor or you know with family in town. How did you plan that out? Yeah, so
with my labor, I'm lucky that my parents live 10 minutes away from me and
so we knew that they would be watching my 6 year old, but Um, we ended up
actually, my water broke was the only way I knew I was in labor because I
had been having mild contractions for the past two weeks before my labor
broke, and I was dilating the entire time, really slowly, but my water
hadn't broke, so it was one of those. Don't worry about it. But I did keep
dilating, so by the time I, my water broke, I was already 56 centimeters.
So I had been just walking around, going to work, all this stuff being 5
centimeters dilated because it was like, what else am I gonna do? Sit at
home, I'm not in labor, so. And I kept thinking, OK, how am I going to
know? And everyone kept saying, Oh, you'll know, you'll know when you need
to go to the hospital. And I really didn't. Like I think the only reason I
went to the hospital was because my water broke. I, if my water hadn't
broken, I wouldn't have gone to the hospital. I wasn't in active labor. I
was having contractions, but they weren't regular. They weren't strong. So
yeah, I, and when I I woke up to my water breaking, but I didn't, it
wasn't at the bottom of my water sack. It was at the top. So it wasn't
like a gush. It would just like come out a little bit at a time. So I
wasn't sure if it was just normal fluid or if it was actually my water.
And so I had read on the internet that if you Get up, go to the bathroom,
and then come back and lie down for 5 minutes and then get back up and
water gushes out, then it's your water and not just normal fluid. So I
tried that and that's what happens and I was like, OK, I think we need to
start getting ready to go to the hospital. And when I had talked to my
midwife about it the week before, she said, don't, you don't have to rush
, just kind of meander to the hospital. Make sure you get there after your
water breaks. Um, so my water broke around 4 in the morning. We probably
got to the hospital around 6 in the morning. And then they checked me in
OB triage, made sure my water broke, and then once that was decided by the
nurses, they moved me into labor and delivery. And I still wasn't
contracting or anything. So I thought, OK, let's go for a walk. By then my
parents had come to pick up my six year old, and we went and walked around
to the uh cafeteria and then came back up to the room and the midwife came
in. And she said, I can tell by the fact that you don't want to kill me,
that you're not in active labor yet. So you're not, you're not ready. So
let's see what happens. And then in, let's say 6 hours if you're not, if
nothing's changed, we need to talk about options. So yeah, we've just kind
of sat around. I wasn't contracting really. I mean, I was having
contractions, but they weren't regular and It just didn't feel like
anything was happening.
And
Let's what happened next? Oh, so yeah, so she came in around 11.
And she checked me and I was still only 6 centimeters, which was really no
change from when I had come in, and she said, you know what, your water,
there's still a big piece of water down here. It would change your water
must have broken at the top of the sack instead of the bottom.
Hold on. OK, sorry. The water was broken. Yeah, at the top of the sack. So
she said, OK, maybe if we, if we burst this little bit of water, that'll
help. And she, but she gave me the option. That was the great part about
working with her, I think, is that everything was always up to me. It
wasn't like, oh, we're definitely going to do this because I think this is
what we need to do. It was always like. Do you, do you want to do this?
Because this is, we may progress labor if we, if we get rid of this water
that's like right above his head, basically. And I said, OK, I don't
really see any negative of that because my water is already broken. It's
just broken in different places. So, uh she did break my water. And that
helped a little bit, but my contractions still weren't very strong. So the
nurse came in and my nurse was amazing. She was kind of like the doula
that I didn't have kind of thing. She was just super. Um, sweet and always
like very nurturing and she is really awesome. And she was like, why don't
we try the breast pump? Because that'll stimulate oxytocin rather than
having to give you Pitocin through a drip like this may work. And I was
also using um an essential oil called Clarisage that's supposed to
stimulate contractions too. And I think cause all of these things happened
within like an hour, the breaking of the water and the using of the breast
pump and everything. And I think all of those together. Really kickstarted
my labor because that was probably around 120 and um within an hour, even
half an hour, I was having regular strong contractions, which was I
thought amazing that we could kind of do something like that drug free, um
, and I, I hope they continue to do stuff like that because I think a lot
of moms could benefit from it. Um, yeah, so that was amazing. So then, um
, and it pretty much as soon as. I, um, started having the regular strong
contractions. I went into transition, like I went up to 7 centimeters and
I pretty much just try and like progressed um until around 4, and he was
born at like 4:30. So, I don't really remember a lot between 1 and 4, it
was very much like an out of body experience. I, I remember it being
painful, but it wasn't ever so painful that I felt like I needed any sort
of intervention. It was one of those, like I kept thinking, this can't
last forever and it's like for, I'm having a baby like. It'll be over and
then I'll have a baby and then I won't have to worry about it anymore, so.
Um, but it was, yeah, it was pretty amazing. And I'm, but I'm glad that I
was in the hospital because after he was born, I lost a lot of blood and
they ended up having to give me a Pitocin drip to stop the the bleeding.
So, um, I mean, I had thought about having him at home, but I'm glad that
I had him in a hospital because kind of a safer environment in case
something goes wrong, so. Yeah, that makes sense. So when it came to the
actual labor part, you know, a lot of women who have had their babies in
the hospital have a real controlled pushing. They're in the stirrups.
They're, you know. Do you know what I mean? So the same as that. So I was
on the bed. I was on a birthing ball until I reached about 8 centimeters
and then I was on the bed and they would have allowed me to move around to
birth differently, but I didn't want to move. I was just like done. I
didn't want to do anything. So Um, I ended up, the nurse was holding one
of my feet and my husband was holding the other, and then they were
holding my hands. I don't even know how they were doing that. I must have
been like having my feet in their bicep area or something, or maybe they
were holding my hands with their other hands. And so then I ended up
pushing just into their arms and um. The midwife was just like it was very
classical, like I was lying down pushing and she was just there ready to
catch so and um yeah, I like that because yeah, with my first son, I did
have stirrups and it was very, yeah, I felt clinical and not as. I didn't
feel as at home as if I had just been with uh like getting help from other
people like I did with him, so with with this guy. Did they talk to you
about um what would happen immediately afterwards like if they would keep
the umbilical cord. So they did ask, um, but then I think when it cause he
had the cordraped around his neck 3 times. So I think when that kind of
thing happens, it kind of just turns into let's make sure the baby's OK.
It's funny because my husband is very afraid of blood and he doesn't, he
didn't cut the umbilical cord with my first son. He didn't want to do it
with this one. Um, so I actually ended up cutting the umbilical cord cause
the midwife was like, well, do you want to do it? I was like, sure,
whatever. So yeah, they took him over the baby over to the heater area, um
, and just made sure that he was breathing OK. Um, and then, um, we, we,
we did, I think we waited 30 seconds or something like that, but, um, yeah
, we didn't have um. I guess the mom next in the room next to us had had
what they call a lotus where they leave the placenta attached, like they
don't cut it at all until it stops. Um, going, so yeah.
But Um,
Yeah, it was pretty standard umbilical cord cutting. So then did they put
him on your chest, and he nurse? Yeah, so they did put him on my chest
right away and that it's interesting just having another baby um the with
my first son. I don't know whether it was because I had Pitocin and an
epidural and all those things, um, but I didn't really feel like I bonded
with my oldest son right away. It was just kind of like, well, that was
long and arduous and now I'm really tired and I have this baby and. I
never really felt like connected to him until he got a little bit older,
like a few weeks. But with him it was like right away. I felt like I
bonded with him and he um and I just was in a really positive mood and
just like really happy that I had, he had gone through something difficult
, but that there was such a positive reward to it. And um. Yeah, so he did
nurse right away. That was actually a positive. I had been using the
breast pump for a few weeks before he was born, so I was already, I had
built up a good amount of colostrum. So he nursed probably for 45 minutes
after he was born. So, and then what they said they now I'm trying to
think back. Oh, because I had the gestational diabetes after the baby is
born, they have to check their blood sugar levels for the 1st 24 hours. So
they had, he nursed and then about a half an hour after they had to check
his blood sugar and then they continued to do that. So, so you were there
for, I think I was there for 24, maybe 30 hours after birth and then they
released us. That's not very long. And honestly, with with this with the
new baby, I um Feel like my What's the word, rebound or bounce back from
birth was a lot faster versus, but he, it was the labor was a lot shorter
too. With my first son, my labor was 30 hours, and with him, I mean,
active labor was only like 3 or 4 hours, so. Yeah, I felt a lot better and
like I could. Like get up and do stuff, and yeah, I just felt a lot more
capable and I felt like I returned to who I was a lot faster, so. Did you
, um, after you had them, did you feel that kind of endorphin rush at all
or you know, was the pain just like completely gone? I did feel the
endorphin rush and then also the afterbirth. Um, I don't know if all moms
have this, but my afterbirth was pretty painful. So they ended up giving
me medication for it. Um, I, I don't know if that's because I lost so much
blood because of it. Um, so yeah, I ended up on, I think it was Tylenol
with codeine or something like that for 12 hours or so. Um, yeah, because
there was just, um, the afterbirth and all the stuff that comes out like
it was, that was not super fun. And you um had contractions and pushed
that out yourself, or did they manually kind of push them out? I did um I
did have contractions and I pushed it out on my own, but yeah, they had to
end up giving you Pitocin anyway because of the blood loss, so.
How was um life when you got home? Life was actually pretty easy after I
got him home. He's a good sleeper and um I maybe it's because it was my
second baby. I kind of, he's very similar to my older son and I kind of.
Remembered what I had to do and um all that stuff. The actually the most
difficult part was the dog. She, it was, I don't know if she was jealous
or if it was just so new, the, the baby and everything, but I would wake
up at like 2 in the morning to her breathing in my face, just wanting
attention, and she would do that 2 or 3 times a night. So it wasn't the
baby waking me up all night long. It was the dog and it was driving me
crazy. She finally calmed down, but it was the first week or so. I was
like I cannot handle this. To too hard, but. Yeah, he was, he was a pretty
good baby. I did um. The pediatrician did say we had to wake him up every
4 hours to nurse him, so um I did have to do that a couple times. He
didn't always want to wake up to eat, but. Yeah. I think the other weird
part was that it wasn't even that he had his days and nights mixed up, as
I know a lot of babies have that. He just had no schedule. So one day he'd
wake up at 6 a.m. and the next day he'd wake up at 9:30 and then the next
day he'd sleep all morning and then. Like it was, it was strange. I don't
know. Is he on schedule now? Yeah, he's pretty good. He'll wake up at
around um 3:30 to eat and then he'll go back to sleep and then wake up at
around 7:30. So, but I'm not sure what I want to do because my, my career
, my job, I start work at 5, which means I have to leave my house at like
4:30.
And I'm not sure if I want to try and put him on a schedule so that he's
eating before I leave or how I wanna do that. So we'll see how that goes.
Are you? Yeah. So. But Can you tell us a little bit about the first birth
? Sure. Um, so with my first baby, he, the pregnancy was a lot more uh
benign or um uneventful, but the my labor itself was more difficult, and I
had just a regular OB. Um, and she ended up stripping my membranes at 39
weeks, which is where she, they take their fingers and they go and
separate the lining of the uterus from the, the water sack, and it's
supposed to stimulate contractions, which it did, um, a little bit. So she
stripped my membranes on Friday morning and then my water broke on
Saturday morning. And so we went into the hospital, but I just wasn't
progressing, so they. Um, ended up putting me on a Pitocin drip. And then
that got really painful, so they ended up giving me an epidural, which
ended up slowing down my labor. Um, but Thank goodness I was able to sleep
and then I ended up dilating and I didn't have to get a C-section or
anything because they kept threatening that because once you get past the
24 hour mark, they really don't like you to labor. They're afraid of
infection or whatever. Um, but it ended up being around 30 hours. And I
pushed for a really long time. I think I must have pushed for 4 hours
because my epidural was so strong, I couldn't feel what was going on. And
I think the only reason I didn't have a C-section is because the nurse who
ended up delivering him. Um, she turned my epidural off. She's like,
You're not going to like me for this, but this is the only way you're not
going to have a C-section. Like, we need to turn this off and you need to
start pushing and figuring out like what's going on. So, yeah, within her
two hours of her turning the epidural off, he was born. So was it like
instant pain? You know what, it really wasn't, and I think the The pushing
allowed me to focus, versus maybe if she had done it while I was just in
labor when I wasn't ready to push, that would have been terrible. But the
fact that I was already pushing and that he was already descending down
the birth canal, it wasn't as terrible. But I did feel like in that
instance, I was in a different hospital. And it was a hospital that tends
to like all the high risk and multiple births go to this hospital, so I
think. That they see more of those and then they view all births as a
possible issue like everything's high risk, so. And I think like I would
say things like, oh my hips hurt. And instead of the nurse being like, oh
, maybe we can do something about that. She'd be like, no, I don't think,
I think you're just feeling it wrong. Like, no, your, your hips don't hurt.
This is what you should be feeling. So this is what you're feeling. I'm
like, no, they're not. That's weird. I know. So there was just a big
disconnect between me and the nurses and the doctor and everything. So, um.
Yeah, that was a much harder rebound, and I don't know if it was because
it was my first baby. And so I didn't know what to expect and my body
didn't really know what it was doing and all that stuff, but um it took a
lot longer to feel like myself again and to not be totally exhausted all
the time. And whereas with this baby, I I had a like the adrenaline rush
for a couple days, um, where I didn't feel tired at all and then um he
started sleeping well. So then by the time I ended up getting really tired
, I was able to sleep and that kind of stuff, so. Were the um Pitocin
contractions very different than the natural ones because I had the
Pitocin one. They were, it was really different. So with the Pitocin
contractions, it was like that sharp pain and it's, I think part of it is
the fact that it's not your body doing it. It's like this. Foreign
substance that's creating these fake hormones in you that's causing the
the contractions, um, versus the natural ones were almost like an ebb and
flow rhythm. Like because the body is working to create the contractions.
It's almost like I knew that they were coming before it was going to
happen and then that allowed Me to focus on working, um, working with the
contraction to help um progress the labor. So it was still really painful
, but it was definitely not as painful as the Pitocin ones, and it was
more of a feeling of like I knew that what was happening was actually Not
even supposed to be happening, but that I knew that it was helping like
with the baby and progressing the labor and everything. So it was easier
to take them versus the Pitocin ones were just so bam bam bam that there's
, I just felt like there was no choice but to have an epidural because it
was so painful that was just ridiculous, so. Yeah, I had no drill at like
4 centimeters with ones I was just like, no. Yeah, um, can you talk about
how the hypno birthing came into play during the process? So we tried to
use hypno birthing, um, and we did like the, I sat on a birthing ball and
mostly it was, we tried to use it. At the beginning of the labor to try
and make me dilate, cause I was not dilating with my first son at all. And
yeah, and then we tried to do some visual exercises and that kind of stuff
, but nothing really worked, like nothing was helping me dilate and I
don't know if part of it was that um. My husband and I had only been
married about 2 years, um, and I don't know if it's like we still didn't
really feel entirely comfortable with each other. And so trying to use
something like hypno birthing with someone that you don't always
communicate with well, it didn't, it just didn't work. So yeah, I, for me
personally, hypno birthing was not helpful with that birth, so. Maybe with
the new birth, it would have been different because we're in a different
place and then I was also in a different place as a person and it was my
second baby, so my body kind of knew more what to do. It could have helped
, but. I tried the hypno birthing thing too, yeah, well, and with the
pitos and stuff it was just you know amount of exactly, it's not gonna,
yeah, it didn't. Well I think this is great. I, um, is there any way you
can think of like a word or a grouping of words that could like summarize
or describe your experience because we're separating these into themes.
Um.
Let's you can take your time.
This totally brings me back.
My arms are so buff.
I know, right? You get the totals, right?
I guess um if it were to be like a small group of words, it would be um
just things in their own time, because I felt like with my first son, I
kind of Rushed and I just wanted the baby to be born, which I mean, I
wanted him to be born too, but um it was very much like I was maybe
willing to do things that like to induce some things like that that
probably didn't help me in the long run, versus with him um just letting
things in their own natural time happen. Um, I think gave me a better
labor and a um a more calm experience and a better experience, so. That's
great, yeah. Well I think we're good.