This is Boris Solis interviewing Sarah Roland for the Creative Push
projects. It is September 19th at 2:40. OK, so briefly tell us a little
bit about this song. Uh, I'm from California. I grew up there with my
family and until I went away to college, I went to Stanford first and then
I moved back home and started teaching art and uh. Uh, and English and got
my master's in teaching, but all the time I always was drawing and
painting and uh I moved to Colorado for a couple of years and it was there
that I knew that I wanted to have a baby and that I knew I wanted to go to
graduate school and so that's kind of what happened next. Great. So um if
you can take us back as far as possible, just previous to conception, if
you were planning on having a family, where you were in your life, just
out of graduate school, graduate school, all that stuff matters, and you
can give us as much information as possible. We can always edit it down.
And that's it, yeah, OK. Well, um, in 2008,
my mom was diagnosed with cancer and um I was like very much with her as a
part of the diagnosis and those doctors appointments and um one part of
after we left that doctor's appointment, she and I was just her and I in
the car. I remember I like grabbed her hand and I just was like, Mom. If
you just beat this thing, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a grandbaby. And
then we'll just, we'll just get to play with that baby and for the rest of
our lives. And she kind of laughed and she was like, OK, you have a deal.
And uh that's kind of what happened. Um, that was 2000 and. And ate like
I said, and uh. Um, another thing I had going on is that I really wanted
to get an MFA in painting, and so, um, those, it was just sort of like
working out the timing of those two things. So I got into graduate school
first and then, um, I got pregnant at the end of my second year of
graduate school. It was a 3-year program and um. You know, I've been, uh,
I basically, as soon as I had decided that I wanted to have a baby, I was
ready whenever, um, and So we tried for probably about a year, um. And uh
that was. Uh, infrequent, I guess I would say, and um. But finally, uh,
after much tabulation of data and processing, craft referencing various uh
smartphone apps and things like this, it all worked out and, um, and I got
pregnant. So it was planned and um you know, the not the not getting
pregnant was hard, was really hard um but also, uh, my religious faith is
a big part of who I am and so. Uh, it just seemed like every time, uh,
that. Like the evidence of that blood was right like that resonated with
my with my religious faith and so it it that was like encouraging in a way
and um. I was just like, you know, it'll it'll happen when it's supposed
to, and like the timing was amazing because I got pregnant and um I was
wrapping up my degree and uh I had the baby two weeks after I defended my
thesis and so it like literally couldn't have been timed any better and so
then I had the remainder of the semester to uh. You know, to just focus on
being a new mom and that kind of thing and uh. Yeah, yeah. So what next?
Well, just out of curiosity, were you still teaching them that second half
of, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my, so my last year, the first semester, I
actually had a 50% TA ship. So I was teaching a class and I was also uh
working with Dan Collins um and doing. I was like Ting his teaching
methodologies class and then also I was um coordinating all of the like uh
core area TAs so and doing all that supply ordering. I couldn't do
anything when I was pregnant. But anyway, let's get on to stay on topic.
Yeah, I'll get you way off topic, um, OK, so. You're pregnant. Let's
start there. OK, so, so, um, you know, I was I was feeling a little weird
, but I wasn't sure exactly what it, what was, what it was gonna be yet
because um if you'll recall we had the uh an opportunity, all the grad
students in the program to take a weekend at the Biltmore and to. To paint
a wine barrel for charity there. And so I was on deck. I was at the
Biltmore to um enjoy a weekend of like extravagantly delicious food and
drink all for free in like luxury hotel setting and like the night before
, I just like I just was like Friday night I get there, I start painting
and there's just all this free food and free wine and like I just couldn't.
Eat it. I couldn't, I'm like this is free wine. I should be loving this,
but I just couldn't. And so, uh, I was like, this is, this is weird. So
the next morning I took a pregnancy test. It was 5:30 in the morning. And
I was just like, holy shit, it's positive. And
ah it was so good. So good and uh oh so good. So yeah.
Right. And so then you couldn't partake or didn't. No, no, and then I was
like immediately feeling very, like very weird like stomach weird and I
never was like super ill, uh, thankfully, but I just like if I, if I
wasn't pregnant, I would have been an amazing anorexic. Like I had no
desire to eat anything. Uh, I could smell everything and I just like every
time I knew I had to eat in order to feel better and it was just like such
a chore, but it was worth it, um, because I, you know, it wasn't, it
wasn't about me, it was about my, it was about Henry, my son, so it was
like, OK, even though I feel like I'm gonna barf if I eat this chicken
sandwich, like, let's do this. Did, um, did you put on weight then, or, um
, I just, I actually had like really the most average pregnancy ever. Like
I just hit the norm the whole way. So it was just an average amount of
weight gain. Um, I think I gained 18 pounds like over the course of the
whole thing, and that was like up until when I was admitted to the
hospital. And so that's really 8.5 pounds of that was my son. So that's
really, like that's very modest, I feel. Um, and it wasn't really for lack
of trying, especially at the end. I ate Coldstone's ice cream every day. I
just was like, I'm not gaining weight. I really need to capitalize on this
opportunity. I'm not gonna get this kind of ice cream opportunity again.
So, um, so I did. So my parents actually came into town, uh, they actually
got an apartment here. Uh, they live in California, but they got an
apartment here in Arizona uh while I was pregnant and then while my son
was newly born and so I just, my dad would take me out for ice cream. It
was really sweet, really, really nice, yeah. So how were you emotionally?
Where was your head pregnant wise?
Well,
In a lot of ways, I'm kind of just very practical person, so um.
It was
On the one hand, just about, OK, let's, let's make sure I graduate. Let's
take care of of my professional business, um. But what ended up happening
was uh. Outside of the professional realm is that I just fell in love. You
know, just was like.
It was unparalleled in any experience I've had before and um it just
resonated with me uh so much in comparison to like the love that I had in
in my in my family with my my parents and my brother growing up. And It
just was so so good and so right in that way and. And that that really
started to change me in in a lot of really important ways. Um.
Ways that I still am like just learning to understand actually. But um.
I
Like I said, I recognized
a a love there that I hadn't.
That I, I think that some people experience that in marriage, um. And
maybe Maybe I did, but maybe just on my end. Like I, I did not otherwise
experience anything remotely close to that in marriage. So, uh, That
Made me bond with my son in a way, uh, that was, I think, more immediate
and more powerful than Maybe some other mothers, like, you know, I've
heard other women's stories of, of like getting to know their child and
that kind of thing, but I immediately felt that I knew him. Uh And that
knowledge was so very real. I've never doubted it. And that kind of
confidence in love was definitely something I hadn't experienced since my
childhood and since, you know, outside of my relationship with my parents.
So that was uh. That's good. That's a really beautiful way of discussing
that, um. You know that intense feeling of like, yeah, yeah, and it was
only more so when he, when he came when it was when he, when I had him.
Only more so really good. Did you feel like I felt like with my son August
that I really knew him inside and out, yeah. I don't know how else to say
it.
So, um, so you had the perfect pregnancy.
Well, yeah, I mean, of course, there were challenges like uh when I was
about 4 months pregnant, I really started having some crazy back pains
like sciatica pain. Um, and what had happened is like as my pelvis was
spreading as it does, as it should, um, like one half of it, like kind of
twisted forward. And so, um, Oh my God, it was so painful. I remember I
was like trying to be super healthy, so it was that prenatal yoga and I, I
think that that's actually when it happened, like, and I just was, you
know, trying to rock the triangle pose or something like that and I was
like, oh my gosh, and the pain was just. Like it was already painful, but
that just kind of like pushed it to a new level, and I remember just kind
of like laying down on my mat and crying because it just was, it hurt so
much and I, I'm, I'm, I'm not a pain crier really so I was just, I'm like
this is a problem. So like I went home and then ultimately went to the
doctor, um not too long after and Um, and he wanted to just to prescribe
me Vicodin, and I know that that's, it's very common for women to take
Vicodin while they're pregnant, but, um, I found it really easy and
something I was really passionate about to kind of just like, you know,
follow the suggested guidelines like I'm, I tend to be a rule follower and
so I was like we've got some rules here this is. Perfect. I'm gonna follow
him and I just, I really didn't want to to take the Vicodin. So luckily I
was able to get some physical therapy and that really helped, um, but I
remember walking around ASU as a grad student and like having to cross the
street like right by the the check. Wagon there or the check box and it
was, it took me the entire green light to walk across the street. It's
it's like a two-lane road and I just like shuffling along and sorority
girls are like streaking past me and doing their like, I'm wearing a
bikini to class and I'm like, I'm pregnant.
And they're kind of looking at me like. Did she know that that was gonna
happen? And I'm like, in fact, it was planned.
And uh so I like actually it was super hilarious. That was a super
hilarious aspect of my pregnancy was to be a student at ASU um during that
period. Um, yeah, yeah, so that was, that was that and um. But other than
that, I mean, everything else was perfectly fine. Did you have a plan? Um
, my first plan was to have Hank at the hospital and to try and like put
off drugs as much as possible. Um.
But I was in labor for 24 hours and so I ended up getting an epidural. Um
, and I, I was glad about that, but how that happened was that. Um,
I, I went into labor at 4:30 in the morning and I remember just, you know
, laying, I laid in bed for an hour with contractions and they were about
, I'd say they were about every 6 or 7 minutes at that point and uh. I was
just like, I think this is really happening and then, you know, once there
was like an irregularity to it, I was like, OK, yeah, this is happening
and I and I was really glad because I basically was, I had a doctor's
appointment that day with my doctor to uh schedule an induction so or
inducement or whatever you call it. um and so. I was glad that my body was
getting this started on its own, um, and I stayed home most of the day, uh
, until actually I stayed home really about 12 hours and so, um, that was
good because then I got to I got to eat something from time to time. I
walked around the block, like it was going out of style very slowly, of
course. And you know, try to do all of the things that I, you know, knew
that I could possibly do to facilitate labor. And so, but basically, I
just was kind of like stalling just a little bit slower than like whatever
the recommendation is to then go to the hospital and check in. And so, um
. I was like, and I, and I could, I could tell. I knew like I knew I was
laboring, but I knew that I was at kind of a pretty like shallow status
quo. But I was getting tired, um, and I knew, ah. So I, so my doctor's
appointment time came up and I just was, I just called them and was like,
hey, uh, I'm having contractions and they're like, you should go to the
hospital then. So that's uh that's what I did and um I had the baby in
Mesa, so, uh, that, uh, you know, I went and checked in and They were not
, uh, they were, they were very professional, but I could tell they were,
they wanted to send me home, um. But they didn't. And so they were not, I
, because I, I felt emotionally I felt really vulnerable. Um, I felt like
I was going to need to make decisions for myself, um, and I, and I wasn't
really gonna have anyone really like on my team supporting me in those
decisions. um, and So then when the nurse was in like admittance was a
little bit off-putting and so I, I basically like labor almost stopped and
I started running a fever. And I remember just like laying in the bed and
I was cold because of the fever um and I just like My body has always been
really responsive to my emotional state and so I just knew, I'm like, I
gotta get out of here. Like we're gonna move this on, but since I was
running a fever, then they had to keep me. So, you know, it worked out
pretty well. Um, so then once I got into like the delivery room, um, I
really felt like I had a good rapport with my nurse. I, I liked her
immediately, um. And so, uh, so that worked out. I mean, I, uh. I'm not a
dramatic person. And so, um, she was kind of gonna meet me at that
practical way that I that I really appreciated that, um, and so, um, I
continued to labor and it's getting later, yes. So why did you feel that
you didn't have an advocate? Did you have women or your mother or your
husband? Oh, my parents came. My husband was there, but um. I mean, he was
in the room.
So he was physically present there, yeah. But um,
He had been up really late the night before um before I went into labor,
he decided that he wanted to start his paternity leave and he was betting
on the fact that I wasn't gonna go to into labor on his first day of
paternity leave and so um. He ah.
I, I, I think you just, you know, spent half the night watching
pornography.
And uh so then when, you know, he was on 2 or 3 hours of sleep. And um. So
that was, you know, a limited. Engagement there and uh
So that kind of sucked. And uh so uh my parents were there, uh but they
were uh.
They, as I've mentioned, are amazing human beings and so they were just,
they just wanted what I wanted. And so, um, I
But my mom was actually it, she, she wasn't there. They didn't get to the
hospital, I guess it was until.
After I had been admitted.
That's what happened. So I didn't see them then until I was in the
delivery room already and um you know, I was up and out of bed in there
and walking around and or not his contractions came and went and uh and my
mom actually, she was there a lot of the time, but um because my husband
was there, she wasn't gonna be, it just, it wouldn't. It would have only
made things more complicated if she had been more assertive, um, and that
, that was certainly a status quo of the of my marriage. So, um, well, she
and I had learned our roles very well, uh, with regards to that over the
years. And so, uh, what I Ultimately decided it was, you know, like 10:30
at night now, um, and then, and I, I decided that I wanted to progress
things, so I decided to get Pitocin and my mom actually, she had two
babies, myself and my brother, and she had it with no pain medication
induced. She had me. In 7 hours and my brother in 3. I mean, I just, I was
like, my mom, my mom is the toughest human being that I know. Um, but then
also, like I have those genes, so, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna rock
this. I'm gonna see how this goes. So, but then of course with the pitocin
, I was like, wow, this is all different ball game.
And I was already so tired. So from 4:30 a.m., contracting every 6 to 7
minutes all day long, um, to 10:30 p.m. and uh I'm Uh, I I made the
decision that I wanted to have an epidural because I wanted my husband to
go to sleep and I wanted to be able to sit with my mom and, you know,
watch the contractions on the monitor and just Be so happy about my baby
coming, and that's what we did and it was so good like that, you know,
hour or two that she and I just sat there like holding hands and like
getting ready for Hank. That was so good and um. You know, so the doctor
and the nurse would, you know, the nurse was there pretty much the whole
time and the doctor would come in and check and then leave and then come
in and check and leave and that was fine, you know, none of that phased me
at all. Um, and then it was time to push. And so that worked out great. I
pushed for 45 minutes, which is a very short amount of time, and the nurse
was kind of like, wow, like this, this is your first baby? I'm like, yup,
I don't mess around. Like we're getting this done. And um. And it was a
little bit easier because I had an epidural. Um, and I think I maybe had a
really good one, and I remember when I decided this teeny tiny little
anesthesiologist comes in, um, and she just was like a little ninja. She
placed that epidural like in between two contractions that I had and I
could feel it immediately and I think from what I've been told that. Like
it was just the perfect amount because I could still feel everything that
was going on, but the pain had subsided and so when it came to pushing,
like I still was able to be in touch with my body and what was going on
because I could still feel some things. So that worked out really well um
and I mean it's such a blessing. Really, like I am so thankful for that
because I've heard so many stories of situations where that was just not
the case. And um Uh, and so Hank was born at 4:32 in the morning on
Tuesday, February 26th in 2013, and, um, you know, he didn't, he didn't
really cry a lot when he was born, like right immediately, like how babies
do in the movies and they were actually a little bit concerned because
they thought that he may have aspirated some myconium. um and so like some.
So I didn't get to hold him right away, which that was like that was
disappointing, um, but also I was a little bit out of it. As I think is
normal after having a baby. And so I remember just like laying there and
um like post delivery, like the doctor's bedside manner was lacking and
you know, she was stitching me up and um she's just like, it's just like
hamburger down here, she says to me. I just was like, uh, I know, I just
was. I still I'm just a little disturbed that she said that, um, but I
just I just wasn't even processing, mentally processing that, but I just
thought that was unnecessary and um you know, I healed just fine and all
that kind of stuff. She was teaching you because you tore because she gave
you on a PC both. So I was starting to tear and they gave me an episiotomy
, um, and. You know, my son was in the ninety-ninth percentile for head
size, so. You know, at least he'll be smart, right?
We can head butt his way out of things. Yeah, yeah, if nothing else, you
can really use that head in so many different ways.
So it was at that point, so you've had your baby, you're recuperating.
Yeah, they're stitching me up. They're like finishing up with after birth
and all that kind of stuff, and, and I just am watching Hank like across
the room, but I can't do anything and I can't go to him and I, I'm even
having trouble like. Just being like I don't know what I'm supposed to say
right now in order to get that kid over here. And uh but also concerned
because he was like kind of blue and you know, cause he wasn't crying, but
I still just knew he was OK. I don't know. I can't explain it. I just knew
that he, I just knew that we needed each other and um another amazing
blessing of my birth and then having a newborn is that uh like when it
comes to breastfeeding, I am great at that, as it turns out, and um. I
also had no problems ever breastfeeding and so I don't know if like my
body already knew it was on board in that department or what, but I was
like, get that kid over here so I can nurse him, and that's what I did.
And he went to sleep and he slept for about 12 hours after that and That
was the probably the best period of sleep he's had in his entire life.
Cause he's not a sleeper. Um, but that's kind of, that's how that worked.
So, um, and then, uh, you know, we. We just, we just got to be together
after that. I just, you know, remember holding him and. Like even in the
picture of like me holding him and and looking down at him in the the
crook of my arm. You know, I look at my, I look at that face of mine and
I'm just like, wow, that girl is dazed, so dazed, and like, but also just
, I mean, my heart was just exploding like in the best way possible. I
felt like I actually felt like I had had like an addition built onto my
heart, like a house addition and actually me and all of my experience had
just moved into the addition, but the main house of the heart now just was
was for for Hank.
That's an encaustic painting right there, yeah. Um, so then, how long were
you at the hospital? Uh, a really average amount again, I think like 2
nights. It's a little fuzzy since I was there overnight all night, and so
I think it was 2 nights after that, so I guess all together it was 3
nights.
That has to have been it. That has to have been it. But, and, you know,
the, the care in the hospital was OK. Like I remember my shower was dirty
and I was like, my shower was dirty and the nurse was kind of like, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And I'm like, can, can you please go look at it? And so like
she went away and then came back and I was like, can you please look at
the shower because I would really like to take a shower. And so finally
she did and she was like shocked that it in fact was dirty. And so then,
but by this time, you know, I had Hank at 4:30 in the morning and it was
like 11:30 at night and like cleaning crew is like coming in to get a new
shower curtain and I was so tired. I just wanted to sleep and um That and
then also, you know, I had had the epidural um at like 10:30 at night. And
so I think like there was, I think it lasted for about Maybe 12 or 12 or
14 hours, like some effects of it, like some pain numbing effects. Um, but
then of course it wore off and I wasn't offered any pain medicine and I
was not very comfortable and so finally I thought, you know, I think I can
have some of that. And so I asked him like, can I have like an Advil or
like a a a Tylenol or something cause I didn't know what I could have. And
again, as I mentioned earlier, uh. You know, I didn't want anything really
heavy, um, but finally I again I had a nurse who it was the night nurse
for that next night who so it was nighttime, like 8:30 or 9 at night, and
she was like, you haven't had anything since the birth and I was like, no.
She's like, I'm bringing you some Percocet. I was like, thank you. I
would like that. And um And so then I was much more comfortable after that.
But you know, like during the day, it was just like. Nursing Hank and
holding him and looking at him and um you know, my husband did help with
the, the diaper changing and that kind of stuff and so that was good
because um especially since I didn't have any pain medication, I really
didn't want to move around at all. And um. And actually, uh, so that was
like that first day and then there was a night, and then another day and
like my milk came in when I was in the hospital still and it was, I
remember waking up and just being like oh. Oh my goodness. This is not
what I expected, but as I think exactly what is supposed to happen. And um
, so that, you know, uh, I, I feel like this anecdote sort of summarizes
the breastfeeding experiences that my son was born at 8 pounds and 8
ounces, and he, uh, didn't lose any weight in the hospital and gained 3
pounds the 1st 2 weeks of his life. And so he was a big little chunk. So
what was it that you hadn't expected, the size, the size, the firmness,
because I've always been so petite, um. And so.
I just was like, oh this is like the movies. Like I never in my wildest
dreams imagined that I would have breasts that were that big. And even now
, like I look back at pictures of myself and I'm just like, I don't
recognize those anymore.
And uh, but, you know, it all worked out. So it was kind of like this
weird like third party. It was like me, Hank, and then the girls, you know.
So, uh, that was, that was, um. You know, it was what it was. So I was
like, this is working. Let's just, let's keep doing this. Um, but, uh, my
, my son actually, he nursed for a really long time, um, you know, until
he was a toddler and uh. He
It just was um.
It just always worked for us. And even still, even though he's been weaned
for quite some time, he even still will say mama nursing and like no kiddo
, let's go cuddle. And he Like I know that he needs that, you know, that
physical closeness and like I think he likes summertime because I wear
shorts more and I'm home from work more. Um, I'm, I teach high school, so
I have, you know, traditional teachers. Schedule and he just like likes if
I'm sitting on the couch, he just puts his head on my lap and just like
rubs his face on my legs and I can tell he's just like, this is, this,
this is part of my home is this. That's, that's really nice. But um. Uh,
Pretty quickly, of course, uh, you know, as I mentioned, uh, Hank and I
like fell into the rhythm of, of breastfeeding, and he, uh, I'm a, I'm a
tall person and my whole side of the family, we're all tall and we all
have healthy appetites and it would seem that Hank is falling into that.
Category from birth and so, um, cause he was, he was long and immediately
large and he's so tall for his age now and um tall and skinny and um. So
immediately it was.
Like a defining factor that bonded Henry and I and. That separation from
my husband was wonderful. And that um.
It really helps me. Find a place.
Or I should say rediscover a place where I.
I knew I could make decisions for myself, and then now also for Hank that
provided for our long term safety and happiness and And so I did, um, and
so when Hank was about.
9 months old, um.
You know, I once again, you know, sort of like address some issues in the
marriage with my husband and um for some time, for some reason this time,
um.
He responded in a way that like actually acknowledged the words that I was
saying, which was really weird because that hadn't happened in the
previous 8.5 years, um, and What I found was that I had so much distress
and. I actually found that I was angry when I really had never been. Uh, I
, I'm not prone to anger, uh, in as in terms of my personality and Um, I
just I knew that if I continued to stay in the marriage that. I was gonna
, there is an essential part of myself that was going to cease to exist.
And so.
In having Henry, I had reconnected with her, that her, that me and.
I liked her.
And I had an unwavering conviction that my son was entitled to know that
woman and to be loved by that woman for the rest of his life. And beyond.
And
And so again to kind of circle back to, I mentioned my religious faith or
faith earlier. And I understood my own faith in in an entirely different
way where the Christian story is about a baby boy who comes to this earth
and changes everything. And I found myself in that same position where
this tiny wriggly, smiley, goofy child was.
Just absolutely.
Putting everything right in the world. And it was all of a sudden. So
clear like I could see.
I could see myself in ways that I never had before and I could understand
things I had experienced. In a different context and.
I was so thankful for that and.
Emboldened by that.
And so I'm divorced now.
Yeah, it sounds like you saved your life, really, you know, that's part of
you that was dying you brought back to life. I absolutely believe that.
And I, I mean.
I, I absolutely believe that that is divine provision.
Just plain and simple. And like I shuddered to think where I would be at
now without that. And how I would be changed without that. Uh
And You know, I, I don't think I would still be being able to make work or
work without that and. There's a lot of things I wouldn't be able to do.
Really a lot Um, and a lot of People and people who have known me a short
time and people have known me literally my entire life, um, who I'm able
to know now and be in community with. Uh That
It just wouldn't have been possible otherwise. So, uh, you know, that's
that. Yeah, um. It is interesting how having a child impacts the
relationship with the marriage now and. Some marriages, it's, it brings
them together or yeah, yeah, in fact, I. Another eye-opening moment was
recently a friend of mine was talking about um how having her daughter
like when she
Sits with her daughter and her husband and she sees she recognizes in the
love that she has with her daughter the she recognizes the love she has
for her husband in that love and I just had the actual absolute opposite
experience where I thought the love that I have for my son there's nothing
that I recognize from my marriage and it's just nothing, yeah. You you
you've given us a really great story. I mean, I'm really grateful that you
came and shared it with us, um. Uh, you know, so we're putting these into
themes, and we have 5 themes, and one of them is faith, and I think yours
is a great fit for that theme, um.
And normally I would ask at this point to our speakers to summarize, but I
think that you know you really encapsulated your experience in a really
meaningful way, like found the meaning in it, you know, which is sometimes
a lot of times with our storytellers it's like at the end here we try to
unresolved. Yeah, I feel like you really it's absolutely resolved. I feel
like I get to stand now and look forward literally.
With my son and and to just be myself. And that, as it turns out, is not
always a given.
But it's how it should be. So it's good. You keep saying these good ending
lines. That was a good one.