WEBVTT 00:00:01.308 --> 00:00:04.596 This is Boris Solis interviewing Sarah Roland for the Creative Push 00:00:04.629 --> 00:00:10.195 projects. It is September 19th at 2:40. OK, so briefly tell us a little 00:00:10.228 --> 00:00:14.556 bit about this song. Uh, I'm from California. I grew up there with my 00:00:14.589 --> 00:00:19.276 family and until I went away to college, I went to Stanford first and then 00:00:19.309 --> 00:00:27.309 I moved back home and started teaching art and uh. Uh, and English and got 00:00:27.379 --> 00:00:32.106 my master's in teaching, but all the time I always was drawing and 00:00:32.139 --> 00:00:37.506 painting and uh I moved to Colorado for a couple of years and it was there 00:00:37.539 --> 00:00:43.027 that I knew that I wanted to have a baby and that I knew I wanted to go to 00:00:43.060 --> 00:00:49.506 graduate school and so that's kind of what happened next. Great. So um if 00:00:49.539 --> 00:00:55.146 you can take us back as far as possible, just previous to conception, if 00:00:55.179 --> 00:01:00.786 you were planning on having a family, where you were in your life, just 00:01:00.819 --> 00:01:04.986 out of graduate school, graduate school, all that stuff matters, and you 00:01:05.019 --> 00:01:08.626 can give us as much information as possible. We can always edit it down. 00:01:08.659 --> 00:01:14.326 And that's it, yeah, OK. Well, um, in 2008, 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:21.376 my mom was diagnosed with cancer and um I was like very much with her as a 00:01:21.409 --> 00:01:27.855 part of the diagnosis and those doctors appointments and um one part of 00:01:27.888 --> 00:01:31.296 after we left that doctor's appointment, she and I was just her and I in 00:01:31.329 --> 00:01:38.546 the car. I remember I like grabbed her hand and I just was like, Mom. If 00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:42.906 you just beat this thing, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a grandbaby. And 00:01:42.939 --> 00:01:47.507 then we'll just, we'll just get to play with that baby and for the rest of 00:01:47.540 --> 00:01:51.436 our lives. And she kind of laughed and she was like, OK, you have a deal. 00:01:51.469 --> 00:01:58.717 And uh that's kind of what happened. Um, that was 2000 and. And ate like 00:01:58.750 --> 00:02:03.745 I said, and uh. Um, another thing I had going on is that I really wanted 00:02:03.778 --> 00:02:09.585 to get an MFA in painting, and so, um, those, it was just sort of like 00:02:09.618 --> 00:02:13.106 working out the timing of those two things. So I got into graduate school 00:02:13.139 --> 00:02:18.025 first and then, um, I got pregnant at the end of my second year of 00:02:18.058 --> 00:02:25.467 graduate school. It was a 3-year program and um. You know, I've been, uh, 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:31.666 I basically, as soon as I had decided that I wanted to have a baby, I was 00:02:31.699 --> 00:02:39.699 ready whenever, um, and So we tried for probably about a year, um. And uh 00:02:41.838 --> 00:02:49.838 that was. Uh, infrequent, I guess I would say, and um. But finally, uh, 00:02:51.469 --> 00:02:57.967 after much tabulation of data and processing, craft referencing various uh 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:03.696 smartphone apps and things like this, it all worked out and, um, and I got 00:03:03.729 --> 00:03:10.366 pregnant. So it was planned and um you know, the not the not getting 00:03:10.399 --> 00:03:16.886 pregnant was hard, was really hard um but also, uh, my religious faith is 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:23.767 a big part of who I am and so. Uh, it just seemed like every time, uh, 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.316 that. Like the evidence of that blood was right like that resonated with 00:03:29.349 --> 00:03:35.077 my with my religious faith and so it it that was like encouraging in a way 00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:40.427 and um. I was just like, you know, it'll it'll happen when it's supposed 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:48.460 to, and like the timing was amazing because I got pregnant and um I was 00:03:48.460 --> 00:03:55.696 wrapping up my degree and uh I had the baby two weeks after I defended my 00:03:55.729 --> 00:04:01.066 thesis and so it like literally couldn't have been timed any better and so 00:04:01.099 --> 00:04:06.366 then I had the remainder of the semester to uh. You know, to just focus on 00:04:06.399 --> 00:04:14.136 being a new mom and that kind of thing and uh. Yeah, yeah. So what next? 00:04:14.169 --> 00:04:17.067 Well, just out of curiosity, were you still teaching them that second half 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:22.515 of, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my, so my last year, the first semester, I 00:04:22.548 --> 00:04:28.916 actually had a 50% TA ship. So I was teaching a class and I was also uh 00:04:28.949 --> 00:04:34.656 working with Dan Collins um and doing. I was like Ting his teaching 00:04:34.689 --> 00:04:41.356 methodologies class and then also I was um coordinating all of the like uh 00:04:41.389 --> 00:04:45.596 core area TAs so and doing all that supply ordering. I couldn't do 00:04:45.629 --> 00:04:50.236 anything when I was pregnant. But anyway, let's get on to stay on topic. 00:04:50.269 --> 00:04:56.426 Yeah, I'll get you way off topic, um, OK, so. You're pregnant. Let's 00:04:56.459 --> 00:05:03.205 start there. OK, so, so, um, you know, I was I was feeling a little weird 00:05:03.238 --> 00:05:09.765 , but I wasn't sure exactly what it, what was, what it was gonna be yet 00:05:09.798 --> 00:05:16.645 because um if you'll recall we had the uh an opportunity, all the grad 00:05:16.678 --> 00:05:21.361 students in the program to take a weekend at the Biltmore and to. To paint 00:05:21.394 --> 00:05:26.342 a wine barrel for charity there. And so I was on deck. I was at the 00:05:26.375 --> 00:05:32.281 Biltmore to um enjoy a weekend of like extravagantly delicious food and 00:05:32.314 --> 00:05:37.711 drink all for free in like luxury hotel setting and like the night before 00:05:37.744 --> 00:05:42.312 , I just like I just was like Friday night I get there, I start painting 00:05:42.345 --> 00:05:47.305 and there's just all this free food and free wine and like I just couldn't. 00:05:47.338 --> 00:05:51.387 Eat it. I couldn't, I'm like this is free wine. I should be loving this, 00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:57.305 but I just couldn't. And so, uh, I was like, this is, this is weird. So 00:05:57.338 --> 00:06:02.606 the next morning I took a pregnancy test. It was 5:30 in the morning. And 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:08.736 I was just like, holy shit, it's positive. And 00:06:08.769 --> 00:06:16.769 ah it was so good. So good and uh oh so good. So yeah. 00:06:18.988 --> 00:06:24.305 Right. And so then you couldn't partake or didn't. No, no, and then I was 00:06:24.338 --> 00:06:29.305 like immediately feeling very, like very weird like stomach weird and I 00:06:29.338 --> 00:06:35.825 never was like super ill, uh, thankfully, but I just like if I, if I 00:06:35.858 --> 00:06:39.526 wasn't pregnant, I would have been an amazing anorexic. Like I had no 00:06:39.559 --> 00:06:47.559 desire to eat anything. Uh, I could smell everything and I just like every 00:06:47.959 --> 00:06:52.086 time I knew I had to eat in order to feel better and it was just like such 00:06:52.119 --> 00:06:57.926 a chore, but it was worth it, um, because I, you know, it wasn't, it 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:03.486 wasn't about me, it was about my, it was about Henry, my son, so it was 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.447 like, OK, even though I feel like I'm gonna barf if I eat this chicken 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:12.245 sandwich, like, let's do this. Did, um, did you put on weight then, or, um 00:07:12.278 --> 00:07:17.846 , I just, I actually had like really the most average pregnancy ever. Like 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:23.765 I just hit the norm the whole way. So it was just an average amount of 00:07:23.798 --> 00:07:30.166 weight gain. Um, I think I gained 18 pounds like over the course of the 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:34.366 whole thing, and that was like up until when I was admitted to the 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:40.176 hospital. And so that's really 8.5 pounds of that was my son. So that's 00:07:40.209 --> 00:07:45.455 really, like that's very modest, I feel. Um, and it wasn't really for lack 00:07:45.488 --> 00:07:50.366 of trying, especially at the end. I ate Coldstone's ice cream every day. I 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:54.536 just was like, I'm not gaining weight. I really need to capitalize on this 00:07:54.569 --> 00:07:58.486 opportunity. I'm not gonna get this kind of ice cream opportunity again. 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:05.455 So, um, so I did. So my parents actually came into town, uh, they actually 00:08:05.488 --> 00:08:09.015 got an apartment here. Uh, they live in California, but they got an 00:08:09.048 --> 00:08:13.606 apartment here in Arizona uh while I was pregnant and then while my son 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:19.697 was newly born and so I just, my dad would take me out for ice cream. It 00:08:19.730 --> 00:08:24.476 was really sweet, really, really nice, yeah. So how were you emotionally? 00:08:24.509 --> 00:08:27.825 Where was your head pregnant wise? 00:08:27.858 --> 00:08:29.967 Well, 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:38.000 In a lot of ways, I'm kind of just very practical person, so um. 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:43.385 It was 00:08:43.418 --> 00:08:47.907 On the one hand, just about, OK, let's, let's make sure I graduate. Let's 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:54.787 take care of of my professional business, um. But what ended up happening 00:08:54.820 --> 00:09:02.820 was uh. Outside of the professional realm is that I just fell in love. You 00:09:05.389 --> 00:09:08.696 know, just was like. 00:09:08.729 --> 00:09:15.297 It was unparalleled in any experience I've had before and um it just 00:09:15.330 --> 00:09:23.057 resonated with me uh so much in comparison to like the love that I had in 00:09:23.090 --> 00:09:29.255 in my in my family with my my parents and my brother growing up. And It 00:09:29.288 --> 00:09:37.047 just was so so good and so right in that way and. And that that really 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:45.080 started to change me in in a lot of really important ways. Um. 00:09:45.658 --> 00:09:53.658 Ways that I still am like just learning to understand actually. But um. 00:09:55.109 --> 00:09:57.375 I 00:09:57.408 --> 00:10:00.456 Like I said, I recognized 00:10:00.489 --> 00:10:06.496 a a love there that I hadn't. 00:10:06.529 --> 00:10:11.736 That I, I think that some people experience that in marriage, um. And 00:10:11.769 --> 00:10:19.525 maybe Maybe I did, but maybe just on my end. Like I, I did not otherwise 00:10:19.558 --> 00:10:27.558 experience anything remotely close to that in marriage. So, uh, That 00:10:28.788 --> 00:10:36.467 Made me bond with my son in a way, uh, that was, I think, more immediate 00:10:36.500 --> 00:10:41.717 and more powerful than Maybe some other mothers, like, you know, I've 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:47.996 heard other women's stories of, of like getting to know their child and 00:10:48.029 --> 00:10:56.029 that kind of thing, but I immediately felt that I knew him. Uh And that 00:10:57.379 --> 00:11:03.297 knowledge was so very real. I've never doubted it. And that kind of 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:08.336 confidence in love was definitely something I hadn't experienced since my 00:11:08.369 --> 00:11:14.076 childhood and since, you know, outside of my relationship with my parents. 00:11:14.109 --> 00:11:20.525 So that was uh. That's good. That's a really beautiful way of discussing 00:11:20.558 --> 00:11:26.407 that, um. You know that intense feeling of like, yeah, yeah, and it was 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:33.125 only more so when he, when he came when it was when he, when I had him. 00:11:33.158 --> 00:11:38.657 Only more so really good. Did you feel like I felt like with my son August 00:11:38.690 --> 00:11:45.775 that I really knew him inside and out, yeah. I don't know how else to say 00:11:45.808 --> 00:11:48.686 it. 00:11:48.719 --> 00:11:53.375 So, um, so you had the perfect pregnancy. 00:11:53.408 --> 00:11:57.015 Well, yeah, I mean, of course, there were challenges like uh when I was 00:11:57.048 --> 00:12:00.816 about 4 months pregnant, I really started having some crazy back pains 00:12:00.849 --> 00:12:06.255 like sciatica pain. Um, and what had happened is like as my pelvis was 00:12:06.288 --> 00:12:11.496 spreading as it does, as it should, um, like one half of it, like kind of 00:12:11.529 --> 00:12:18.186 twisted forward. And so, um, Oh my God, it was so painful. I remember I 00:12:18.219 --> 00:12:22.917 was like trying to be super healthy, so it was that prenatal yoga and I, I 00:12:22.950 --> 00:12:27.476 think that that's actually when it happened, like, and I just was, you 00:12:27.509 --> 00:12:31.996 know, trying to rock the triangle pose or something like that and I was 00:12:32.029 --> 00:12:37.895 like, oh my gosh, and the pain was just. Like it was already painful, but 00:12:37.928 --> 00:12:41.375 that just kind of like pushed it to a new level, and I remember just kind 00:12:41.408 --> 00:12:46.246 of like laying down on my mat and crying because it just was, it hurt so 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:53.015 much and I, I'm, I'm, I'm not a pain crier really so I was just, I'm like 00:12:53.048 --> 00:12:58.135 this is a problem. So like I went home and then ultimately went to the 00:12:58.168 --> 00:13:03.686 doctor, um not too long after and Um, and he wanted to just to prescribe 00:13:03.719 --> 00:13:07.645 me Vicodin, and I know that that's, it's very common for women to take 00:13:07.678 --> 00:13:13.206 Vicodin while they're pregnant, but, um, I found it really easy and 00:13:13.239 --> 00:13:16.005 something I was really passionate about to kind of just like, you know, 00:13:16.038 --> 00:13:19.885 follow the suggested guidelines like I'm, I tend to be a rule follower and 00:13:19.918 --> 00:13:23.872 so I was like we've got some rules here this is. Perfect. I'm gonna follow 00:13:23.905 --> 00:13:30.151 him and I just, I really didn't want to to take the Vicodin. So luckily I 00:13:30.184 --> 00:13:35.471 was able to get some physical therapy and that really helped, um, but I 00:13:35.504 --> 00:13:39.992 remember walking around ASU as a grad student and like having to cross the 00:13:40.025 --> 00:13:45.019 street like right by the the check. Wagon there or the check box and it 00:13:45.052 --> 00:13:49.938 was, it took me the entire green light to walk across the street. It's 00:13:49.971 --> 00:13:55.008 it's like a two-lane road and I just like shuffling along and sorority 00:13:55.041 --> 00:13:58.269 girls are like streaking past me and doing their like, I'm wearing a 00:13:58.302 --> 00:14:04.025 bikini to class and I'm like, I'm pregnant. 00:14:04.058 --> 00:14:08.515 And they're kind of looking at me like. Did she know that that was gonna 00:14:08.548 --> 00:14:13.025 happen? And I'm like, in fact, it was planned. 00:14:13.058 --> 00:14:18.275 And uh so I like actually it was super hilarious. That was a super 00:14:18.308 --> 00:14:25.316 hilarious aspect of my pregnancy was to be a student at ASU um during that 00:14:25.349 --> 00:14:33.349 period. Um, yeah, yeah, so that was, that was that and um. But other than 00:14:34.928 --> 00:14:40.116 that, I mean, everything else was perfectly fine. Did you have a plan? Um 00:14:40.149 --> 00:14:47.037 , my first plan was to have Hank at the hospital and to try and like put 00:14:47.070 --> 00:14:52.265 off drugs as much as possible. Um. 00:14:52.298 --> 00:14:57.726 But I was in labor for 24 hours and so I ended up getting an epidural. Um 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:05.759 , and I, I was glad about that, but how that happened was that. Um, 00:15:06.558 --> 00:15:10.606 I, I went into labor at 4:30 in the morning and I remember just, you know 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:14.326 , laying, I laid in bed for an hour with contractions and they were about 00:15:14.359 --> 00:15:21.586 , I'd say they were about every 6 or 7 minutes at that point and uh. I was 00:15:21.619 --> 00:15:25.326 just like, I think this is really happening and then, you know, once there 00:15:25.359 --> 00:15:29.706 was like an irregularity to it, I was like, OK, yeah, this is happening 00:15:29.739 --> 00:15:34.145 and I and I was really glad because I basically was, I had a doctor's 00:15:34.178 --> 00:15:39.706 appointment that day with my doctor to uh schedule an induction so or 00:15:39.739 --> 00:15:45.537 inducement or whatever you call it. um and so. I was glad that my body was 00:15:45.570 --> 00:15:51.025 getting this started on its own, um, and I stayed home most of the day, uh 00:15:51.058 --> 00:15:56.927 , until actually I stayed home really about 12 hours and so, um, that was 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:01.297 good because then I got to I got to eat something from time to time. I 00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:06.336 walked around the block, like it was going out of style very slowly, of 00:16:06.369 --> 00:16:13.385 course. And you know, try to do all of the things that I, you know, knew 00:16:13.418 --> 00:16:21.418 that I could possibly do to facilitate labor. And so, but basically, I 00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:28.866 just was kind of like stalling just a little bit slower than like whatever 00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:33.826 the recommendation is to then go to the hospital and check in. And so, um 00:16:33.859 --> 00:16:39.265 . I was like, and I, and I could, I could tell. I knew like I knew I was 00:16:39.298 --> 00:16:44.787 laboring, but I knew that I was at kind of a pretty like shallow status 00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:52.820 quo. But I was getting tired, um, and I knew, ah. So I, so my doctor's 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:57.005 appointment time came up and I just was, I just called them and was like, 00:16:57.038 --> 00:17:00.206 hey, uh, I'm having contractions and they're like, you should go to the 00:17:00.239 --> 00:17:06.406 hospital then. So that's uh that's what I did and um I had the baby in 00:17:06.439 --> 00:17:13.897 Mesa, so, uh, that, uh, you know, I went and checked in and They were not 00:17:13.930 --> 00:17:18.676 , uh, they were, they were very professional, but I could tell they were, 00:17:18.709 --> 00:17:24.176 they wanted to send me home, um. But they didn't. And so they were not, I 00:17:24.209 --> 00:17:31.446 , because I, I felt emotionally I felt really vulnerable. Um, I felt like 00:17:31.479 --> 00:17:37.166 I was going to need to make decisions for myself, um, and I, and I wasn't 00:17:37.199 --> 00:17:41.426 really gonna have anyone really like on my team supporting me in those 00:17:41.459 --> 00:17:49.459 decisions. um, and So then when the nurse was in like admittance was a 00:17:49.689 --> 00:17:54.996 little bit off-putting and so I, I basically like labor almost stopped and 00:17:55.029 --> 00:17:58.357 I started running a fever. And I remember just like laying in the bed and 00:17:58.390 --> 00:18:06.390 I was cold because of the fever um and I just like My body has always been 00:18:06.818 --> 00:18:11.325 really responsive to my emotional state and so I just knew, I'm like, I 00:18:11.358 --> 00:18:14.436 gotta get out of here. Like we're gonna move this on, but since I was 00:18:14.469 --> 00:18:18.357 running a fever, then they had to keep me. So, you know, it worked out 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:23.986 pretty well. Um, so then once I got into like the delivery room, um, I 00:18:24.019 --> 00:18:27.637 really felt like I had a good rapport with my nurse. I, I liked her 00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:35.670 immediately, um. And so, uh, so that worked out. I mean, I, uh. I'm not a 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:42.436 dramatic person. And so, um, she was kind of gonna meet me at that 00:18:42.469 --> 00:18:49.315 practical way that I that I really appreciated that, um, and so, um, I 00:18:49.348 --> 00:18:53.996 continued to labor and it's getting later, yes. So why did you feel that 00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:57.516 you didn't have an advocate? Did you have women or your mother or your 00:18:57.549 --> 00:19:04.656 husband? Oh, my parents came. My husband was there, but um. I mean, he was 00:19:04.689 --> 00:19:07.035 in the room. 00:19:07.068 --> 00:19:15.068 So he was physically present there, yeah. But um, 00:19:15.068 --> 00:19:19.717 He had been up really late the night before um before I went into labor, 00:19:19.750 --> 00:19:23.315 he decided that he wanted to start his paternity leave and he was betting 00:19:23.348 --> 00:19:27.075 on the fact that I wasn't gonna go to into labor on his first day of 00:19:27.108 --> 00:19:34.637 paternity leave and so um. He ah. 00:19:34.670 --> 00:19:37.967 I, I, I think you just, you know, spent half the night watching 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.335 pornography. 00:19:40.368 --> 00:19:48.368 And uh so then when, you know, he was on 2 or 3 hours of sleep. And um. So 00:19:49.858 --> 00:19:57.097 that was, you know, a limited. Engagement there and uh 00:19:57.130 --> 00:20:03.656 So that kind of sucked. And uh so uh my parents were there, uh but they 00:20:03.689 --> 00:20:07.756 were uh. 00:20:07.789 --> 00:20:13.555 They, as I've mentioned, are amazing human beings and so they were just, 00:20:13.588 --> 00:20:19.766 they just wanted what I wanted. And so, um, I 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:24.456 But my mom was actually it, she, she wasn't there. They didn't get to the 00:20:24.489 --> 00:20:29.357 hospital, I guess it was until. 00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:32.476 After I had been admitted. 00:20:32.509 --> 00:20:37.795 That's what happened. So I didn't see them then until I was in the 00:20:37.828 --> 00:20:42.676 delivery room already and um you know, I was up and out of bed in there 00:20:42.709 --> 00:20:50.709 and walking around and or not his contractions came and went and uh and my 00:20:51.108 --> 00:20:57.156 mom actually, she was there a lot of the time, but um because my husband 00:20:57.189 --> 00:21:03.516 was there, she wasn't gonna be, it just, it wouldn't. It would have only 00:21:03.549 --> 00:21:07.236 made things more complicated if she had been more assertive, um, and that 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:13.887 , that was certainly a status quo of the of my marriage. So, um, well, she 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:18.446 and I had learned our roles very well, uh, with regards to that over the 00:21:18.479 --> 00:21:26.479 years. And so, uh, what I Ultimately decided it was, you know, like 10:30 00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:31.785 at night now, um, and then, and I, I decided that I wanted to progress 00:21:31.818 --> 00:21:36.956 things, so I decided to get Pitocin and my mom actually, she had two 00:21:36.989 --> 00:21:43.137 babies, myself and my brother, and she had it with no pain medication 00:21:43.170 --> 00:21:48.910 induced. She had me. In 7 hours and my brother in 3. I mean, I just, I was 00:21:48.943 --> 00:21:53.331 like, my mom, my mom is the toughest human being that I know. Um, but then 00:21:53.364 --> 00:21:57.851 also, like I have those genes, so, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna rock 00:21:57.884 --> 00:22:01.371 this. I'm gonna see how this goes. So, but then of course with the pitocin 00:22:01.404 --> 00:22:05.946 , I was like, wow, this is all different ball game. 00:22:05.979 --> 00:22:12.347 And I was already so tired. So from 4:30 a.m., contracting every 6 to 7 00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:20.380 minutes all day long, um, to 10:30 p.m. and uh I'm Uh, I I made the 00:22:20.828 --> 00:22:25.756 decision that I wanted to have an epidural because I wanted my husband to 00:22:25.789 --> 00:22:32.315 go to sleep and I wanted to be able to sit with my mom and, you know, 00:22:32.348 --> 00:22:38.706 watch the contractions on the monitor and just Be so happy about my baby 00:22:38.739 --> 00:22:44.746 coming, and that's what we did and it was so good like that, you know, 00:22:44.779 --> 00:22:50.186 hour or two that she and I just sat there like holding hands and like 00:22:50.219 --> 00:22:56.835 getting ready for Hank. That was so good and um. You know, so the doctor 00:22:56.868 --> 00:22:59.575 and the nurse would, you know, the nurse was there pretty much the whole 00:22:59.608 --> 00:23:02.926 time and the doctor would come in and check and then leave and then come 00:23:02.959 --> 00:23:06.967 in and check and leave and that was fine, you know, none of that phased me 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:13.006 at all. Um, and then it was time to push. And so that worked out great. I 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:17.206 pushed for 45 minutes, which is a very short amount of time, and the nurse 00:23:17.239 --> 00:23:22.206 was kind of like, wow, like this, this is your first baby? I'm like, yup, 00:23:22.239 --> 00:23:28.756 I don't mess around. Like we're getting this done. And um. And it was a 00:23:28.789 --> 00:23:33.736 little bit easier because I had an epidural. Um, and I think I maybe had a 00:23:33.769 --> 00:23:38.696 really good one, and I remember when I decided this teeny tiny little 00:23:38.729 --> 00:23:44.575 anesthesiologist comes in, um, and she just was like a little ninja. She 00:23:44.608 --> 00:23:48.776 placed that epidural like in between two contractions that I had and I 00:23:48.809 --> 00:23:53.347 could feel it immediately and I think from what I've been told that. Like 00:23:53.380 --> 00:23:56.986 it was just the perfect amount because I could still feel everything that 00:23:57.019 --> 00:24:02.545 was going on, but the pain had subsided and so when it came to pushing, 00:24:02.578 --> 00:24:06.496 like I still was able to be in touch with my body and what was going on 00:24:06.529 --> 00:24:11.026 because I could still feel some things. So that worked out really well um 00:24:11.059 --> 00:24:17.226 and I mean it's such a blessing. Really, like I am so thankful for that 00:24:17.259 --> 00:24:21.467 because I've heard so many stories of situations where that was just not 00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:29.500 the case. And um Uh, and so Hank was born at 4:32 in the morning on 00:24:30.269 --> 00:24:38.166 Tuesday, February 26th in 2013, and, um, you know, he didn't, he didn't 00:24:38.199 --> 00:24:42.756 really cry a lot when he was born, like right immediately, like how babies 00:24:42.789 --> 00:24:46.276 do in the movies and they were actually a little bit concerned because 00:24:46.309 --> 00:24:53.377 they thought that he may have aspirated some myconium. um and so like some. 00:24:53.410 --> 00:24:57.676 So I didn't get to hold him right away, which that was like that was 00:24:57.709 --> 00:25:03.946 disappointing, um, but also I was a little bit out of it. As I think is 00:25:03.979 --> 00:25:11.107 normal after having a baby. And so I remember just like laying there and 00:25:11.140 --> 00:25:16.186 um like post delivery, like the doctor's bedside manner was lacking and 00:25:16.219 --> 00:25:20.986 you know, she was stitching me up and um she's just like, it's just like 00:25:21.019 --> 00:25:27.825 hamburger down here, she says to me. I just was like, uh, I know, I just 00:25:27.858 --> 00:25:34.467 was. I still I'm just a little disturbed that she said that, um, but I 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:39.285 just I just wasn't even processing, mentally processing that, but I just 00:25:39.318 --> 00:25:45.486 thought that was unnecessary and um you know, I healed just fine and all 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.246 that kind of stuff. She was teaching you because you tore because she gave 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.305 you on a PC both. So I was starting to tear and they gave me an episiotomy 00:25:52.338 --> 00:25:59.226 , um, and. You know, my son was in the ninety-ninth percentile for head 00:25:59.259 --> 00:26:06.285 size, so. You know, at least he'll be smart, right? 00:26:06.318 --> 00:26:09.815 We can head butt his way out of things. Yeah, yeah, if nothing else, you 00:26:09.848 --> 00:26:14.035 can really use that head in so many different ways. 00:26:14.068 --> 00:26:18.877 So it was at that point, so you've had your baby, you're recuperating. 00:26:18.910 --> 00:26:22.877 Yeah, they're stitching me up. They're like finishing up with after birth 00:26:22.910 --> 00:26:27.545 and all that kind of stuff, and, and I just am watching Hank like across 00:26:27.578 --> 00:26:33.637 the room, but I can't do anything and I can't go to him and I, I'm even 00:26:33.670 --> 00:26:38.117 having trouble like. Just being like I don't know what I'm supposed to say 00:26:38.150 --> 00:26:44.696 right now in order to get that kid over here. And uh but also concerned 00:26:44.729 --> 00:26:49.815 because he was like kind of blue and you know, cause he wasn't crying, but 00:26:49.848 --> 00:26:55.545 I still just knew he was OK. I don't know. I can't explain it. I just knew 00:26:55.578 --> 00:27:02.416 that he, I just knew that we needed each other and um another amazing 00:27:02.449 --> 00:27:10.449 blessing of my birth and then having a newborn is that uh like when it 00:27:10.449 --> 00:27:16.776 comes to breastfeeding, I am great at that, as it turns out, and um. I 00:27:16.809 --> 00:27:24.295 also had no problems ever breastfeeding and so I don't know if like my 00:27:24.328 --> 00:27:27.976 body already knew it was on board in that department or what, but I was 00:27:28.009 --> 00:27:31.696 like, get that kid over here so I can nurse him, and that's what I did. 00:27:31.729 --> 00:27:36.266 And he went to sleep and he slept for about 12 hours after that and That 00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:41.805 was the probably the best period of sleep he's had in his entire life. 00:27:41.838 --> 00:27:48.467 Cause he's not a sleeper. Um, but that's kind of, that's how that worked. 00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:55.117 So, um, and then, uh, you know, we. We just, we just got to be together 00:27:55.150 --> 00:27:59.637 after that. I just, you know, remember holding him and. Like even in the 00:27:59.670 --> 00:28:03.956 picture of like me holding him and and looking down at him in the the 00:28:03.989 --> 00:28:08.686 crook of my arm. You know, I look at my, I look at that face of mine and 00:28:08.719 --> 00:28:16.597 I'm just like, wow, that girl is dazed, so dazed, and like, but also just 00:28:16.630 --> 00:28:23.035 , I mean, my heart was just exploding like in the best way possible. I 00:28:23.068 --> 00:28:29.026 felt like I actually felt like I had had like an addition built onto my 00:28:29.059 --> 00:28:34.347 heart, like a house addition and actually me and all of my experience had 00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:39.867 just moved into the addition, but the main house of the heart now just was 00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:42.795 was for for Hank. 00:28:42.828 --> 00:28:49.127 That's an encaustic painting right there, yeah. Um, so then, how long were 00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.565 you at the hospital? Uh, a really average amount again, I think like 2 00:28:53.598 --> 00:28:59.156 nights. It's a little fuzzy since I was there overnight all night, and so 00:28:59.189 --> 00:29:02.526 I think it was 2 nights after that, so I guess all together it was 3 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.785 nights. 00:29:04.818 --> 00:29:08.815 That has to have been it. That has to have been it. But, and, you know, 00:29:08.848 --> 00:29:13.795 the, the care in the hospital was OK. Like I remember my shower was dirty 00:29:13.828 --> 00:29:18.597 and I was like, my shower was dirty and the nurse was kind of like, yeah, 00:29:18.630 --> 00:29:24.196 yeah, yeah. And I'm like, can, can you please go look at it? And so like 00:29:24.229 --> 00:29:27.357 she went away and then came back and I was like, can you please look at 00:29:27.390 --> 00:29:30.575 the shower because I would really like to take a shower. And so finally 00:29:30.608 --> 00:29:36.825 she did and she was like shocked that it in fact was dirty. And so then, 00:29:36.858 --> 00:29:40.387 but by this time, you know, I had Hank at 4:30 in the morning and it was 00:29:40.420 --> 00:29:45.107 like 11:30 at night and like cleaning crew is like coming in to get a new 00:29:45.140 --> 00:29:52.686 shower curtain and I was so tired. I just wanted to sleep and um That and 00:29:52.719 --> 00:29:59.065 then also, you know, I had had the epidural um at like 10:30 at night. And 00:29:59.098 --> 00:30:05.805 so I think like there was, I think it lasted for about Maybe 12 or 12 or 00:30:05.838 --> 00:30:12.867 14 hours, like some effects of it, like some pain numbing effects. Um, but 00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:20.706 then of course it wore off and I wasn't offered any pain medicine and I 00:30:20.739 --> 00:30:25.467 was not very comfortable and so finally I thought, you know, I think I can 00:30:25.500 --> 00:30:30.387 have some of that. And so I asked him like, can I have like an Advil or 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:35.946 like a a a Tylenol or something cause I didn't know what I could have. And 00:30:35.979 --> 00:30:39.930 again, as I mentioned earlier, uh. You know, I didn't want anything really 00:30:39.963 --> 00:30:45.781 heavy, um, but finally I again I had a nurse who it was the night nurse 00:30:45.814 --> 00:30:51.291 for that next night who so it was nighttime, like 8:30 or 9 at night, and 00:30:51.324 --> 00:30:56.200 she was like, you haven't had anything since the birth and I was like, no. 00:30:56.233 --> 00:30:59.972 She's like, I'm bringing you some Percocet. I was like, thank you. I 00:31:00.005 --> 00:31:06.897 would like that. And um And so then I was much more comfortable after that. 00:31:06.930 --> 00:31:12.107 But you know, like during the day, it was just like. Nursing Hank and 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:17.585 holding him and looking at him and um you know, my husband did help with 00:31:17.618 --> 00:31:21.825 the, the diaper changing and that kind of stuff and so that was good 00:31:21.858 --> 00:31:25.746 because um especially since I didn't have any pain medication, I really 00:31:25.779 --> 00:31:33.779 didn't want to move around at all. And um. And actually, uh, so that was 00:31:34.709 --> 00:31:40.315 like that first day and then there was a night, and then another day and 00:31:40.348 --> 00:31:44.357 like my milk came in when I was in the hospital still and it was, I 00:31:44.390 --> 00:31:51.276 remember waking up and just being like oh. Oh my goodness. This is not 00:31:51.309 --> 00:31:56.526 what I expected, but as I think exactly what is supposed to happen. And um 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:04.559 , so that, you know, uh, I, I feel like this anecdote sort of summarizes 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.996 the breastfeeding experiences that my son was born at 8 pounds and 8 00:32:09.029 --> 00:32:14.967 ounces, and he, uh, didn't lose any weight in the hospital and gained 3 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:21.516 pounds the 1st 2 weeks of his life. And so he was a big little chunk. So 00:32:21.549 --> 00:32:26.236 what was it that you hadn't expected, the size, the size, the firmness, 00:32:26.269 --> 00:32:33.585 because I've always been so petite, um. And so. 00:32:33.618 --> 00:32:39.357 I just was like, oh this is like the movies. Like I never in my wildest 00:32:39.390 --> 00:32:44.276 dreams imagined that I would have breasts that were that big. And even now 00:32:44.309 --> 00:32:48.916 , like I look back at pictures of myself and I'm just like, I don't 00:32:48.949 --> 00:32:52.916 recognize those anymore. 00:32:52.949 --> 00:32:58.377 And uh, but, you know, it all worked out. So it was kind of like this 00:32:58.410 --> 00:33:05.509 weird like third party. It was like me, Hank, and then the girls, you know. 00:33:05.818 --> 00:33:07.818 So, uh, that was, that was, um. You know, it was what it was. So I was 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:18.085 like, this is working. Let's just, let's keep doing this. Um, but, uh, my 00:33:18.118 --> 00:33:23.006 , my son actually, he nursed for a really long time, um, you know, until 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:29.936 he was a toddler and uh. He 00:33:29.969 --> 00:33:34.656 It just was um. 00:33:34.689 --> 00:33:41.766 It just always worked for us. And even still, even though he's been weaned 00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:47.256 for quite some time, he even still will say mama nursing and like no kiddo 00:33:47.289 --> 00:33:55.176 , let's go cuddle. And he Like I know that he needs that, you know, that 00:33:55.209 --> 00:34:01.217 physical closeness and like I think he likes summertime because I wear 00:34:01.250 --> 00:34:06.496 shorts more and I'm home from work more. Um, I'm, I teach high school, so 00:34:06.529 --> 00:34:11.945 I have, you know, traditional teachers. Schedule and he just like likes if 00:34:11.978 --> 00:34:15.977 I'm sitting on the couch, he just puts his head on my lap and just like 00:34:16.010 --> 00:34:21.256 rubs his face on my legs and I can tell he's just like, this is, this, 00:34:21.289 --> 00:34:29.289 this is part of my home is this. That's, that's really nice. But um. Uh, 00:34:32.898 --> 00:34:37.385 Pretty quickly, of course, uh, you know, as I mentioned, uh, Hank and I 00:34:37.418 --> 00:34:42.865 like fell into the rhythm of, of breastfeeding, and he, uh, I'm a, I'm a 00:34:42.898 --> 00:34:48.506 tall person and my whole side of the family, we're all tall and we all 00:34:48.539 --> 00:34:53.084 have healthy appetites and it would seem that Hank is falling into that. 00:34:53.117 --> 00:34:58.164 Category from birth and so, um, cause he was, he was long and immediately 00:34:58.197 --> 00:35:06.197 large and he's so tall for his age now and um tall and skinny and um. So 00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:10.706 immediately it was. 00:35:10.739 --> 00:35:18.739 Like a defining factor that bonded Henry and I and. That separation from 00:35:19.938 --> 00:35:27.938 my husband was wonderful. And that um. 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:36.247 It really helps me. Find a place. 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:42.646 Or I should say rediscover a place where I. 00:35:42.679 --> 00:35:50.236 I knew I could make decisions for myself, and then now also for Hank that 00:35:50.269 --> 00:35:58.269 provided for our long term safety and happiness and And so I did, um, and 00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:02.486 so when Hank was about. 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:06.385 9 months old, um. 00:36:06.418 --> 00:36:10.405 You know, I once again, you know, sort of like address some issues in the 00:36:10.438 --> 00:36:15.885 marriage with my husband and um for some time, for some reason this time, 00:36:15.918 --> 00:36:18.376 um. 00:36:18.409 --> 00:36:23.816 He responded in a way that like actually acknowledged the words that I was 00:36:23.849 --> 00:36:28.816 saying, which was really weird because that hadn't happened in the 00:36:28.849 --> 00:36:36.849 previous 8.5 years, um, and What I found was that I had so much distress 00:36:37.590 --> 00:36:43.396 and. I actually found that I was angry when I really had never been. Uh, I 00:36:43.429 --> 00:36:51.429 , I'm not prone to anger, uh, in as in terms of my personality and Um, I 00:36:51.739 --> 00:36:59.456 just I knew that if I continued to stay in the marriage that. I was gonna 00:36:59.489 --> 00:37:05.706 , there is an essential part of myself that was going to cease to exist. 00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:10.166 And so. 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:18.199 In having Henry, I had reconnected with her, that her, that me and. 00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.845 I liked her. 00:37:20.878 --> 00:37:27.155 And I had an unwavering conviction that my son was entitled to know that 00:37:27.188 --> 00:37:33.537 woman and to be loved by that woman for the rest of his life. And beyond. 00:37:33.570 --> 00:37:36.646 And 00:37:36.679 --> 00:37:41.186 And so again to kind of circle back to, I mentioned my religious faith or 00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:46.956 faith earlier. And I understood my own faith in in an entirely different 00:37:46.989 --> 00:37:53.876 way where the Christian story is about a baby boy who comes to this earth 00:37:53.909 --> 00:38:00.276 and changes everything. And I found myself in that same position where 00:38:00.309 --> 00:38:07.537 this tiny wriggly, smiley, goofy child was. 00:38:07.570 --> 00:38:10.997 Just absolutely. 00:38:11.030 --> 00:38:18.287 Putting everything right in the world. And it was all of a sudden. So 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.537 clear like I could see. 00:38:21.570 --> 00:38:25.967 I could see myself in ways that I never had before and I could understand 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:32.546 things I had experienced. In a different context and. 00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:38.497 I was so thankful for that and. 00:38:38.530 --> 00:38:41.997 Emboldened by that. 00:38:42.030 --> 00:38:46.977 And so I'm divorced now. 00:38:47.010 --> 00:38:51.057 Yeah, it sounds like you saved your life, really, you know, that's part of 00:38:51.090 --> 00:38:56.195 you that was dying you brought back to life. I absolutely believe that. 00:38:56.228 --> 00:39:00.046 And I, I mean. 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:08.079 I, I absolutely believe that that is divine provision. 00:39:08.349 --> 00:39:13.606 Just plain and simple. And like I shuddered to think where I would be at 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:21.639 now without that. And how I would be changed without that. Uh 00:39:24.228 --> 00:39:31.486 And You know, I, I don't think I would still be being able to make work or 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:37.115 work without that and. There's a lot of things I wouldn't be able to do. 00:39:37.148 --> 00:39:44.876 Really a lot Um, and a lot of People and people who have known me a short 00:39:44.909 --> 00:39:50.405 time and people have known me literally my entire life, um, who I'm able 00:39:50.438 --> 00:39:58.316 to know now and be in community with. Uh That 00:39:58.349 --> 00:40:03.006 It just wouldn't have been possible otherwise. So, uh, you know, that's 00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:11.039 that. Yeah, um. It is interesting how having a child impacts the 00:40:11.179 --> 00:40:16.236 relationship with the marriage now and. Some marriages, it's, it brings 00:40:16.269 --> 00:40:22.115 them together or yeah, yeah, in fact, I. Another eye-opening moment was 00:40:22.148 --> 00:40:28.986 recently a friend of mine was talking about um how having her daughter 00:40:29.019 --> 00:40:31.736 like when she 00:40:31.769 --> 00:40:36.896 Sits with her daughter and her husband and she sees she recognizes in the 00:40:36.929 --> 00:40:41.057 love that she has with her daughter the she recognizes the love she has 00:40:41.090 --> 00:40:46.217 for her husband in that love and I just had the actual absolute opposite 00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:51.566 experience where I thought the love that I have for my son there's nothing 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:57.057 that I recognize from my marriage and it's just nothing, yeah. You you 00:40:57.090 --> 00:41:02.217 you've given us a really great story. I mean, I'm really grateful that you 00:41:02.250 --> 00:41:07.827 came and shared it with us, um. Uh, you know, so we're putting these into 00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:11.345 themes, and we have 5 themes, and one of them is faith, and I think yours 00:41:11.378 --> 00:41:15.956 is a great fit for that theme, um. 00:41:15.989 --> 00:41:20.865 And normally I would ask at this point to our speakers to summarize, but I 00:41:20.898 --> 00:41:26.345 think that you know you really encapsulated your experience in a really 00:41:26.378 --> 00:41:30.467 meaningful way, like found the meaning in it, you know, which is sometimes 00:41:30.500 --> 00:41:33.385 a lot of times with our storytellers it's like at the end here we try to 00:41:33.418 --> 00:41:39.896 unresolved. Yeah, I feel like you really it's absolutely resolved. I feel 00:41:39.929 --> 00:41:46.626 like I get to stand now and look forward literally. 00:41:46.659 --> 00:41:54.659 With my son and and to just be myself. And that, as it turns out, is not 00:41:57.570 --> 00:42:00.066 always a given. 00:42:00.099 --> 00:42:06.175 But it's how it should be. So it's good. You keep saying these good ending 00:42:06.208 --> 00:42:09.208 lines. That was a good one.