WEBVTT 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:03.886 I'm, this is Boris Solis interviewing for the Creative Push project on 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:11.919 December 18th, the 18th, yeah, at Um, 11:45. So can you state your name 00:00:12.189 --> 00:00:18.407 and age? OK. My name is Peg Freisinger and I'm 50. Great. So go ahead and 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:23.166 um maybe start kind of like, um, you know, introduce what you were talking 00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:28.236 about. OK, all right. I was speaking about um my walk in this life with 00:00:28.269 --> 00:00:32.207 something called anthroposophical medicine and the use of biography as a 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:38.195 method to know oneself, as a method to look at. Places in one life where 00:00:38.228 --> 00:00:44.195 we come to a threshold, we meet a right of initiation, a transformative 00:00:44.228 --> 00:00:51.576 time in our life, and um for Um, if you look in ancient cultures, um, men 00:00:51.609 --> 00:00:57.217 often had some sort of right of initiation, a passageway. Um, often it was 00:00:57.250 --> 00:01:01.576 around puberty where um they were coming into manhood, right, and they 00:01:01.609 --> 00:01:08.186 were sent off to kill the lion or whatever it is, um, and that women in 00:01:08.219 --> 00:01:14.415 these cultures that we in a way have. A rite of passage built in if we're 00:01:14.448 --> 00:01:20.016 given the if we have the opportunity to give birth, um, it truly can be a 00:01:20.049 --> 00:01:23.736 rite of initiation, a moment where you're brought to a threshold, a 00:01:23.769 --> 00:01:27.736 completely transformative event where you really have to venture into the 00:01:27.769 --> 00:01:34.576 unknown, not knowing what is going to come to pass. And um to you know 00:01:34.609 --> 00:01:39.977 have courage and to go within to know that um you have the strength that 00:01:40.010 --> 00:01:43.135 you need to get through the process, whichever whatever way it's going to 00:01:43.168 --> 00:01:49.055 look and wherever you decide to do it and um and that and even you know as 00:01:49.088 --> 00:01:53.337 women, if we say we want to have a child and and for some reason we cannot 00:01:53.370 --> 00:01:59.596 conceive that too is you know another another threshold moment. Um, so in 00:01:59.629 --> 00:02:03.816 , so in anthroposophical medicine, looking at biography, we look at these 00:02:03.849 --> 00:02:10.196 , um, aspects. Oh, I'm sorry, I think that's it's. 00:02:10.229 --> 00:02:18.229 That's It's gonna Yeah Um, That 00:02:18.288 --> 00:02:23.335 Human lives have far more similarities than we realize and these moments 00:02:23.368 --> 00:02:27.055 of these passageways, these 00:02:27.088 --> 00:02:29.636 initiations. 00:02:29.669 --> 00:02:33.396 Um, can look like many different things. It can look like a health crisis. 00:02:33.429 --> 00:02:37.237 It can look like a husband leaving a wife. It can look, you know, there's 00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:41.946 many different ways, but we all are going to meet them, and all of them 00:02:41.979 --> 00:02:47.376 are opportunities to grow and to love, you know, deep in the love and to 00:02:47.409 --> 00:02:54.406 learn about oneself. And so in a broader perspective, um, Yeah, birth is a 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:59.126 very powerful. Um, 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:02.146 Mode of initiation. 00:03:02.179 --> 00:03:07.467 Excellent. I'm going to cough. That has been something that we've um 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:10.547 really keyed in on is this idea of transformation and how and 00:03:10.580 --> 00:03:15.275 self-discovery and how women oftentimes say they found this strength they 00:03:15.308 --> 00:03:21.335 didn't know they had or their character was built really upon that birth 00:03:21.368 --> 00:03:27.055 experience. And they had to um You know, because oftentimes we're up 00:03:27.088 --> 00:03:32.177 against a lot of opinions from others that it helps you to define what 00:03:32.210 --> 00:03:37.616 your opinion is and to solidify your ideas and perspectives. Yes, 00:03:37.649 --> 00:03:41.656 absolutely. I tell them, well, I walk with people, you know, like I'm 00:03:41.689 --> 00:03:46.177 human too. I'm walking in this and that we don't really learn anything 00:03:46.210 --> 00:03:51.346 when everything's going great. It is through the struggle. It is through 00:03:51.379 --> 00:03:54.827 hard times, and not that it's not possible, it is possible to learn 00:03:54.860 --> 00:04:00.305 through joy, absolutely, but big transformative pieces usually come with 00:04:00.338 --> 00:04:06.547 some sort of pain. So on an emotional level, on a physical level, and how 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:12.916 do we transform that, um. I have this quote that I have on my email and it 00:04:12.949 --> 00:04:17.036 says something like that. The road to wholeness is not always pretty and 00:04:17.069 --> 00:04:22.226 it doesn't always feel good, but it's always worth the journey. So it's 00:04:22.259 --> 00:04:27.666 along those lines. So what about your birth, um, journey? How did that 00:04:27.699 --> 00:04:31.346 begin? All right. Well, at the time I was working in labor and delivery as 00:04:31.379 --> 00:04:35.546 a nurse and we had actually plans to go to graduate school and become a 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:40.906 certified nurse midwife and um. So I thought, well, you know, it's like I 00:04:40.939 --> 00:04:45.265 was in school, made sense to actually go work in that area. So I was 00:04:45.298 --> 00:04:49.567 working first as a student and then as a graduate. And what I realized 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.486 actually being in there and I worked in a beautiful place for birth, we 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:57.406 had what we call LDRPs, their labor delivery recovery postpartum. The baby 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:01.007 was never taken from the mom unless it was really a need to. Most of the 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:05.086 deliveries were done by midwives. They always had a doctor on call and you 00:05:05.119 --> 00:05:07.825 know, there was an operating room there if need be, but it was a very low 00:05:07.858 --> 00:05:11.046 risk hospital. We just did, I think what they referred to as level 1 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:16.026 nursery, so only babies 36 weeks gestation and beyond. So nothing was high 00:05:16.059 --> 00:05:22.145 risk, and we had deep big tubs for the women to get into and big rooms. I 00:05:22.178 --> 00:05:25.745 mean some of them were as big as this hotel room where there would be as 00:05:25.778 --> 00:05:30.007 many families people wanted and the room were allowed. So as far as 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:35.026 hospital births go, it was a very beautiful environment. But even that, 00:05:35.059 --> 00:05:39.846 when I got into it, I realized pretty quickly that I didn't know that that 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.526 was gonna be my path, at least to do, even though it was a really 00:05:43.559 --> 00:05:48.046 beautiful thing. I mean, I learned about myself and you know, even though 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:51.526 it was this great environment that you know they could pretty much do what 00:05:51.559 --> 00:05:54.676 they wanted and if you, I mean depending on your nurse and your midwife, 00:05:54.709 --> 00:05:58.176 and like I was I was personally pretty low risk. I wanted them off the 00:05:58.209 --> 00:06:01.575 monitor, so if they needed to be monitored, I just kind of listen and 00:06:01.608 --> 00:06:05.015 wanted them moving and, you know, whatever they needed to do. And it 00:06:05.048 --> 00:06:09.137 varied. I mean some, you know, it just depended, but again, it was a great 00:06:09.170 --> 00:06:15.106 place. But what I learned was that Um, just women coming in that door and 00:06:15.139 --> 00:06:19.976 taking their own clothes off and putting on this hospital gown. 00:06:20.009 --> 00:06:27.265 Was a method of relinquishing their power. And I believe very deeply that 00:06:27.298 --> 00:06:31.015 women, all women should give birth wherever they feel most comfortable. I 00:06:31.048 --> 00:06:35.705 don't feel there's any right or wrong. And if the culture has taught, and 00:06:35.738 --> 00:06:39.627 I believe it is a cultural thing that you know like birth that a hospital 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:43.586 is the best place to have a birth, that's where they better be because if 00:06:43.619 --> 00:06:47.096 they're not, they're going to go against what they believe and it's it's 00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:51.226 you know so you gotta follow your heart. You gotta, you gotta be you gotta 00:06:51.259 --> 00:06:57.137 be honest of mind and sincere of heart, right? Um. And know where you are 00:06:57.170 --> 00:07:02.257 in it. So anyway, I'm, I'm really digressing. So I, I learned in in 00:07:02.290 --> 00:07:06.895 working through there that I really didn't want uh even a hospital, I mean 00:07:06.928 --> 00:07:09.377 even a birth there and I knew all the midwives and all the nurses and it 00:07:09.410 --> 00:07:13.967 was, I mean, I could have exactly what I wanted. But I really wanted to be 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:18.606 at home and my husband, who didn't really think about this, he's like, no 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:21.726 way. Of course he came from a very conservative family and had a very 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:25.757 different background and was very much, I'm more alternative. I want to do 00:07:25.790 --> 00:07:29.007 everything naturally and herbally and he is very much like throwing 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.887 antibiotic at everything, you know, it's like, you know, vegan raw. met Mr. 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.226 Hostess Twinkie eating meat guy, right? I mean, we were polarity and he 00:07:38.259 --> 00:07:42.666 was really like, no way, it's too dangerous. And so I was like, OK, I have 00:07:42.699 --> 00:07:45.627 this beautiful community. I can give birth there, you know, it's like it 00:07:45.660 --> 00:07:48.526 won't be what I exactly what I want, but he'll be comfortable and we need 00:07:48.559 --> 00:07:54.116 both of us to be comfortable. So. Um, so I decided to go into the hospital 00:07:54.149 --> 00:07:58.616 until we went into some birthing classes in, you know, the last trimester 00:07:58.649 --> 00:08:04.026 , and it was the midwife who was, I knew her through the community, very 00:08:04.059 --> 00:08:06.705 good. She wrote a book. Her name's Pam England. She wrote birthing from 00:08:06.738 --> 00:08:11.377 within. Beautiful, beautiful book and beautiful midwife and through the 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:14.616 discussions she was saying, you know, she's showing the risks of birth at 00:08:14.649 --> 00:08:20.817 home versus and he's like, is this right? I'm like, yes, it is right. And 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:23.325 so what I didn't realize is that, you know, when you had a really hard day 00:08:23.358 --> 00:08:27.096 and you came home and you would vent on basically the train wrecks, that's 00:08:27.129 --> 00:08:31.586 pretty much all he was hearing. About birth. And so then we had to have 00:08:31.619 --> 00:08:34.145 the conversation, well, how much of that train wreck had to do with the 00:08:34.178 --> 00:08:38.066 fact that they were in the hospital and having to be monitored and you 00:08:38.099 --> 00:08:41.106 know, in this, you know, it's like there's, I mean that's not the only 00:08:41.139 --> 00:08:44.746 piece, but we really got into deep discussion and he came totally full 00:08:44.779 --> 00:08:51.427 circle and said, OK, let's do a home birth. So I said, OK, great. So um 00:08:51.460 --> 00:08:57.217 yeah, so we had, um, it was Pam who was the midwife and 00:08:57.250 --> 00:09:01.807 Um, she had two of us in labor at the exact same time and we were about 45 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.047 minutes away drive time. So in early labor, she kind of went back and 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:09.885 forth, you know, as we were, my water broke. I don't remember some time in 00:09:09.918 --> 00:09:16.787 the day and I still wasn't in labor at night. And I remember we went to 00:09:16.820 --> 00:09:20.265 see this awful movie and I thought that's that was why did I do that, but 00:09:20.298 --> 00:09:22.787 I did it just to get in my mind, just a mindless movie, but it was so bad 00:09:22.820 --> 00:09:27.907 . I was like this is like counterproductive, that's for sure. Um, anyway, 00:09:27.940 --> 00:09:31.186 so we went home and it was, you know, the sun had gone down. This is 00:09:31.219 --> 00:09:33.717 September and I thought, well, we should probably get things going because 00:09:33.750 --> 00:09:36.907 I think at that point it had been almost 12 hours since my water broke. 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:41.667 And so I started doing nipple stem to get things going and the other girl 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.746 kind of had very similar story, same thing, and started doing nipple stem 00:09:44.779 --> 00:09:50.346 we went into labor and got into active labor about the same time. And um 00:09:50.379 --> 00:09:56.226 she had an apprentice, so. Um, I think I, I mean, started a good labor 00:09:56.259 --> 00:10:04.259 around 10 that night and. Um, I think by about 2. realized that we were 00:10:05.389 --> 00:10:09.755 both kind of neck and neck and so the apprentice came to my house and then 00:10:09.788 --> 00:10:14.236 I had birthing midwives. One was coming to, I mean I had friends that were 00:10:14.269 --> 00:10:17.717 midwives and one was coming to take photos and so she was going to be 00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:20.907 there so I was like I've got, you know, it's like it makes sense for them 00:10:20.940 --> 00:10:24.657 to come here and you stay there. Well, that was the decision that was made. 00:10:24.690 --> 00:10:29.157 I was in labor, you know, I was like. Um, but I do remember peripherally 00:10:29.190 --> 00:10:33.366 trying being somewhere part of that, like, yeah, just have Vicky come and 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:41.399 we're good. Um, yeah, so I. I um. Did pretty well and then you know, 00:10:42.239 --> 00:10:48.537 transition, it's always like, whoa. Whoa, whoa, OK, yeah, I don't know 00:10:48.570 --> 00:10:53.086 that I can do this anymore, you know that that moment of. Wow, this is, I 00:10:53.119 --> 00:10:56.807 mean, it's all powerful, um, where you really have to kind of dig in and 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:00.746 then um maybe through that and started pushing, which actually for me was 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:04.846 even more intense than transition because I kept getting rectal spasms. 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:08.807 Every time I have a contraction, my rectum would seize and I'd had these 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.486 , I had an irritable bowel when I was in college and so I'd had this 00:11:12.519 --> 00:11:16.125 happen before and it's pretty incapacitating so I had that going on along 00:11:16.158 --> 00:11:21.316 with the labor every time and I thought. I don't know, you know, it's like 00:11:21.349 --> 00:11:24.236 , you know, first babies take a while, and I knew I'd been doing it for a 00:11:24.269 --> 00:11:26.596 while and I finally was like I don't know how much longer I can do this. I 00:11:26.629 --> 00:11:32.976 really don't. And Um, 00:11:33.009 --> 00:11:39.177 And actually I. Trying to think back. No, no, when I was in transition and 00:11:39.210 --> 00:11:43.025 it got really bad. I was like I don't know how much I can take of it that 00:11:43.058 --> 00:11:45.706 at that point, and I asked him to check him and they said you're basically 00:11:45.739 --> 00:11:49.116 complete, so I'm like, OK. I can do this. It's like, you know, you can see 00:11:49.149 --> 00:11:51.797 the light at the end of the tunnel and then the spasm started and then I 00:11:51.830 --> 00:11:53.885 did that for a couple of hours and thought, OK, I don't know if I can do 00:11:53.918 --> 00:11:59.596 this any much longer. And that I voiced internally. I didn't actually say. 00:11:59.629 --> 00:12:01.645 Um, 00:12:01.678 --> 00:12:05.066 But as you know, it's like you can see, you know, as you start to make 00:12:05.099 --> 00:12:08.106 progress and the baby starts to move down and then you can actually see. I 00:12:08.139 --> 00:12:12.106 remember holding a mirror there so I could see, you know, the process, um 00:12:12.139 --> 00:12:15.106 , which just, you know, told me it's it's not gonna last forever because 00:12:15.139 --> 00:12:18.547 you just get in that space where all time is, you know, it's like there's 00:12:18.580 --> 00:12:23.015 no time. And um and like a lot of women, you see, you know, you go back to 00:12:23.048 --> 00:12:25.956 your coaching, you just take it one at a time. You don't think about the 00:12:25.989 --> 00:12:29.936 next 20 just the next one and rest until then, you know, it's like it's 00:12:29.969 --> 00:12:37.667 just one at a time. So, made it through, um. And when she was born, I 00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:42.826 remember there was just such a sense of relief, you know, that the pain 00:12:42.859 --> 00:12:47.996 had stopped. And I, I remember them just scooping down and, you know, 00:12:48.029 --> 00:12:52.625 handing her to me. And there's this picture of me holding her at that 00:12:52.658 --> 00:12:59.686 moment with this big smile on my face, but. I wasn't I was, I, my feeling 00:12:59.719 --> 00:13:03.275 honestly was I don't think I was quite ready to hold her. I was just so 00:13:03.308 --> 00:13:07.686 relieved to not be in so much pain. You know, I just needed a moment to 00:13:07.719 --> 00:13:11.525 kind of come back into my I don't know what it was, but, um, but I 00:13:11.558 --> 00:13:14.086 remember looking at that picture and that big smile I'm like, that was 00:13:14.119 --> 00:13:19.436 just relief. I thought I made it through it. That's all. It wasn't that I 00:13:19.469 --> 00:13:22.956 was so happy to be holding this baby, not yet, you know, that came, you 00:13:22.989 --> 00:13:30.989 know, in 10 minutes, but I just need a minute. um. Let's see, so interrupt 00:13:31.099 --> 00:13:37.096 to ask some details, so. Um, I, I also want you to talk about the being 00:13:37.129 --> 00:13:40.816 pregnant part, you know, were you working? Were you, you know, how were 00:13:40.849 --> 00:13:44.895 you handling the actual pregnancy part? And then, um, to bring it back to 00:13:44.928 --> 00:13:49.217 the birth experience, you know, um, what sort of coping mechanisms did you 00:13:49.250 --> 00:13:55.015 use? You know, Did you done, you know, Lamas or hypno birthing or any of 00:13:55.048 --> 00:13:58.616 that type of stuff, or was it just based on, you know, your inner strength 00:13:58.649 --> 00:14:03.436 , that kind of a question, and then. Um, the positionings, you know, being 00:14:03.469 --> 00:14:07.596 able to move around, that kind of stuff. OK. All right. Um, so the first 00:14:07.629 --> 00:14:12.816 question, which I've already the pregnancy. So I had a very uneventful 00:14:12.849 --> 00:14:20.849 pregnancy, very healthy, um. I gained like I think 3035 pounds very. I 00:14:21.599 --> 00:14:26.005 love to eat, um, so I gained a lot. Like I remember my husband telling me 00:14:26.038 --> 00:14:29.125 I really didn't eat much meat, but when I got pregnant, I wanted to eat it 00:14:29.158 --> 00:14:32.326 every night. You know, I just wanted a steak every night. I remember him 00:14:32.359 --> 00:14:36.086 looking at me and going, oh my gosh, now if your taste in movies would 00:14:36.119 --> 00:14:40.076 change, you'd be perfect. 00:14:40.109 --> 00:14:45.196 So, um, so I do remember, yeah, my diet changed, um, I didn't have much 00:14:45.229 --> 00:14:50.096 morning sickness. I felt pretty much really tired in the beginning, um. 00:14:50.129 --> 00:14:54.255 And then and then felt pretty good and worked until like you know 3 or 4 00:14:54.288 --> 00:14:58.236 days before I um gave birth. I remember thinking I'll take a week off, you 00:14:58.269 --> 00:15:02.096 know, babies are usually, you know, first babies usually a little later. 00:15:02.129 --> 00:15:06.596 So yeah, I worked right to the very end and I did a lot of, I was training 00:15:06.629 --> 00:15:11.917 someone. I was precepting a new nurse and so when she was in and she was, 00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:15.946 you know, she got further along in my pregnancy, she was pretty much 00:15:15.979 --> 00:15:18.547 independent. So I remember I'd sit in the corner of somebody else birthing 00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:22.076 and just squat, you know, just train to be in that position. I'd sit 00:15:22.109 --> 00:15:25.557 against the wall and just be in a squatting position, which really came to 00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:29.395 serve me very well because it was the only position really I could 00:15:29.428 --> 00:15:33.807 tolerate when I was pushing. And to hold yourself for 3 hours in that 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:38.246 position, you know, I pushed for 3 hours and it really, we tried all other 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:41.557 kinds of positions because I get so tired, but it always, it's like I need 00:15:41.590 --> 00:15:45.167 to be squatting. I need to open things up as much as possible. It was not 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:49.686 an easy push um to get her out, you know, it's like I think the pelvis and 00:15:49.719 --> 00:15:54.125 everything it kind of met its, um, you know, the passenger, the pelvis and 00:15:54.158 --> 00:15:59.217 the push effort, and I was strong. I'm very physically strong, so. There 00:15:59.250 --> 00:16:03.816 was no problem with the effort. It really was the, you know, her head and 00:16:03.849 --> 00:16:09.496 the size of the pelvis. So, um, was she a big baby? No, she was like 84, 00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:14.557 you know, but we're all different on the inside, um. 00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:20.936 So, and what else about the pregnancy? Um, did you swell? Not too much, 00:16:20.969 --> 00:16:24.537 you know, a little towards the very end. I mean, for an amount of time I 00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:29.446 spent on my feet and walking and I remember a doctor. And I was like weeks 00:16:29.479 --> 00:16:32.427 away from my due date, and he's like, you have got, I've just like bolt 00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:35.385 out of a delivery to get something right, as if I didn't have this big 00:16:35.418 --> 00:16:38.986 belly. He's like, you've got to slow down. You know, it's like it didn't, 00:16:39.019 --> 00:16:41.706 there's no, I don't remember waddling. I don't remember. I just, you know 00:16:41.739 --> 00:16:46.467 , it's like I just, yeah, it was pretty strong force. And so, and I never 00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:51.456 did slow down. I didn't, but I did have to push against all those muscles 00:16:51.489 --> 00:16:53.936 that have so much strength, you know, it's like I had strong muscles 00:16:53.969 --> 00:16:58.537 pushing, but I also had strong muscles in my pelvic floor, um, that, yeah 00:16:58.570 --> 00:17:03.696 , had to yield, right? It's like it's, it's both. You've got, you've got 00:17:03.729 --> 00:17:08.835 to have power, but you also have to surrender. And so that first birth was 00:17:08.868 --> 00:17:16.105 a big, yeah. A big surrender process. How did he, um, you know, how did he 00:17:16.138 --> 00:17:21.005 perform? My husband, beautifully. I think he was traumatized by how long 00:17:21.038 --> 00:17:25.774 it took, especially the pushing page because he, you know, it's like on TV 00:17:25.807 --> 00:17:31.655 they push 3 times and they're done. And yeah, so it was that was hard on 00:17:31.688 --> 00:17:37.175 him. Um, I remember in early labor, I had this image like I wanted these 00:17:37.208 --> 00:17:40.384 candles everywhere. I it's like all of this and I was sitting on this big 00:17:40.417 --> 00:17:43.607 birthing ball. And things were starting to kind of get more intense and I 00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:48.285 was going into active labor and I was, and I, I remember I had to throw up 00:17:48.318 --> 00:17:51.325 , you know, as I started, you know, like things were really starting to 00:17:51.358 --> 00:17:53.206 move so I'm like I need to throw up and he went and got the garbage can 00:17:53.239 --> 00:17:56.656 and then all of a sudden I'm like. These candles smell horrible. Would you 00:17:56.689 --> 00:18:00.986 please, I like blow, get them out of here. So we went and blew out like 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:04.107 the 30 candles, not thinking that all the smoke coming up, right? So then 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:09.867 I'm like, get the smoke. I was like outside, put the candles outside. You 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:12.486 know, it's funny how it is one of those times where you can do nothing 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:16.347 extra and even just smelling something is an assault. It feels like an 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:21.065 assault on your system. Um, it's not, it's just one more thing that you, 00:18:21.098 --> 00:18:25.325 you know, we're gonna. You're not the process to say that. It's so funny 00:18:25.358 --> 00:18:28.075 because people were saying they thought they'd want a certain kind of 00:18:28.108 --> 00:18:30.795 music and all this stuff and they're like, I couldn't have any other 00:18:30.828 --> 00:18:34.795 sensory thing. Yes, yes. It's like just shut up and let me do what I need 00:18:34.828 --> 00:18:39.315 to do. And even the midwives wanting to touch, it's like, Don't touch me. 00:18:39.348 --> 00:18:42.555 Even at the very end when she was wanting to kind of rub my perineum and 00:18:42.588 --> 00:18:46.835 I'm like, Don't touch me. And she went to like, you know, try to help with 00:18:46.868 --> 00:18:51.825 the head like ease it out and I had an instant pain. I'm like, no, like 00:18:51.858 --> 00:18:57.877 hands off, don't do it. It just was like my body knew the exact like 00:18:57.910 --> 00:19:00.676 amount of pressure that it could handle. You know it was like everything 00:19:00.709 --> 00:19:08.476 was just so fine tuned into what I what I could um what I could handle, I 00:19:08.509 --> 00:19:12.467 guess you could say, or what I could meet. And anything extra, yeah, it 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:17.585 was that. It was just like too much, too much or put me over the edge 00:19:17.618 --> 00:19:21.186 where I couldn't hold my space. And so then in preparing for labor, we did 00:19:21.219 --> 00:19:25.897 the, I think it was a version of Lamas. And I do remember getting to a 00:19:25.930 --> 00:19:33.930 point in labor going um. I was not breathing. And I think I was in the tub. 00:19:34.118 --> 00:19:37.305 I was, I'd gotten in the, so things started to heat up and I and then I 00:19:37.338 --> 00:19:40.506 got in the tub like I think I need to get in the tub and I could feel 00:19:40.539 --> 00:19:45.305 everything just relax, like oh the weight off me. And then the 00:19:45.338 --> 00:19:49.535 contractions just came like a vengeance, just like. You know it was a 00:19:49.568 --> 00:19:53.617 surrender. The water allowed me to surrender a bit, so then the labor just 00:19:53.650 --> 00:19:58.456 came in like that's what we needed, like this is it. So then it came so 00:19:58.489 --> 00:20:03.535 fast I literally stopped breathing and I remember thinking, you know what 00:20:03.568 --> 00:20:08.256 we talked about in class, like, oh yeah, you've got to keep breathing. And 00:20:08.289 --> 00:20:15.137 so I brought in the breath um just as a method to, well, it was just I was 00:20:15.170 --> 00:20:17.217 really to keep breathing, you know, it's like it's so intense you just 00:20:17.250 --> 00:20:22.726 stop everything. Um, and I don't know that. I think I, it does help, it 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.926 did help, um. 00:20:26.959 --> 00:20:30.956 You know, yeah, yeah, it did help and that, well, it's good keep oxygen 00:20:30.989 --> 00:20:38.206 flowing. Right, yes. And it also that movement um is is a is a yielding in 00:20:38.239 --> 00:20:41.607 itself, you know, it's not a seasoning. It is a movement, it's being a 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:46.647 flow. Um, so yeah, I think those are the two. We didn't have a birth tub 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:52.535 for her, um, ended up giving birth squatting in the bedroom. With the 00:20:52.568 --> 00:20:57.676 mirror, I remember the mirror and the light. I want to see, um. 00:20:57.709 --> 00:21:04.186 Yeah. So, um, you're gonna not be able to play with that, by the way, you 00:21:04.219 --> 00:21:10.186 need to take a drink, take a drink. Thank you. Um, so did you, so after 00:21:10.219 --> 00:21:12.706 you had that minute, obviously they put her on your chest, but then I 00:21:12.739 --> 00:21:16.617 assume they, you know, took her away and cleaned her off or did whatnot. 00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:20.545 Did they, did you start nursing or so tell me about that afterwards. So 00:21:20.578 --> 00:21:25.456 she, they handed to me to her immediately and I was squatting, so I um. 00:21:25.489 --> 00:21:28.456 Yeah, I just took her into my arms and things settled down and they put a 00:21:28.489 --> 00:21:30.936 chucks under me or I already had a chucks on me and I just kind of leaned 00:21:30.969 --> 00:21:35.377 against the bed and got out of that squatting position, which was a relief 00:21:35.410 --> 00:21:41.897 because it, yeah, it was, I'd been there for quite a while, um. And I just 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:48.565 held her for a while, um, and yeah, did put her to breast, um. You know, 00:21:48.598 --> 00:21:51.647 it's like within 10 or 15 minutes when she was starting to show she was 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:55.647 ready, you know, and starting to root around and had no problems latching 00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:02.717 on and um was a great eater from the get-go. Um, 00:22:02.750 --> 00:22:06.956 One of the struggles postpartum if you do postpartum. I, I ended up 00:22:06.989 --> 00:22:11.887 getting, I ended up having um postpartum depression. And it was all 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:16.206 actually centering around nursing issues, breastfeeding. I um I knew I was 00:22:16.239 --> 00:22:21.045 going back to work at 3 months and the midwives were like, you know, some 00:22:21.078 --> 00:22:23.847 kit babies really have a hard time with this nipple confusion. You know 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:28.406 you're going back to work, that when you introduce a nipple really early, 00:22:28.439 --> 00:22:33.357 um. They tend to go back and forth easier, you know, they can, and what 00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:37.936 actually happened was. She took the bottle really easily and then she 00:22:37.969 --> 00:22:42.097 didn't want to breastfeed and then she didn't want to breastfeed. And so 00:22:42.130 --> 00:22:46.016 then my milk and there was a it was a combination of factors. It was 00:22:46.049 --> 00:22:50.897 introducing the bottle and we did it at night. So when my milk production 00:22:50.930 --> 00:22:54.805 was the lowest, we'd give her the bottle at night, but then she'd sleep 00:22:54.838 --> 00:22:58.696 all night long. She had her stomach full, so then I get completely 00:22:58.729 --> 00:23:01.936 engorged, right, which is not the right thing when you're trying to 00:23:01.969 --> 00:23:06.535 develop a milk supply. So then she'd do OK during the day, you know, but 00:23:06.568 --> 00:23:11.285 the more she had the bottle, the more she would fuss and um with the 00:23:11.318 --> 00:23:15.575 breast. And so I ended up my milk production took a tank and it was also 00:23:15.608 --> 00:23:18.016 compounded by a trip. My brother got married in California, so I'm 00:23:18.049 --> 00:23:21.815 traveling with her at 3 weeks old. Um, you know, it's like, and you want 00:23:21.848 --> 00:23:25.617 to go and I just didn't honor that I should have stayed home and just been 00:23:25.650 --> 00:23:29.545 with her, but you know it is what it is. Um, so I ended up having to use 00:23:29.578 --> 00:23:32.706 the SMS or I can't remember what it was, but it was a little tube that you 00:23:32.739 --> 00:23:36.545 put on your breast to try to stimulate the milk supply. It was just became 00:23:36.578 --> 00:23:40.467 this big, like huge fiasco. She was such a great feeder and it, I just 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:44.946 really created just this big mess and over it really then the formula 00:23:44.979 --> 00:23:48.666 started to get her constipated, so then she had all kinds of gut issues 00:23:48.699 --> 00:23:51.506 that it just was like kind of one thing after the other until I found 00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:55.486 myself crying all day. And I went, I know I went into a for a postpartum 00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.246 appointment, I think when she was like 4 months old and I just started 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:02.107 crying. He's like, have you been crying a lot? I'm like, yeah, I've been 00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:05.166 crying a lot and he's like, Are you depressed and you know, it's like you 00:24:05.199 --> 00:24:10.006 never see it in yourself. Like, no, I don't think so, and actually I could 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:15.456 have been the 2nd month appointment. I don't remember. And But I was, I 00:24:15.489 --> 00:24:19.897 was really depressed. I got to the point where I thought that both the 00:24:19.930 --> 00:24:23.936 baby and my husband deserve better and I actually had a plan. Like I was 00:24:23.969 --> 00:24:28.535 going to check out. I was really depressed. Like I was not thinking 00:24:28.568 --> 00:24:33.147 rationally at all and 00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:38.186 When she was about 4 or 6 months old, somewhere and then she started 00:24:38.219 --> 00:24:43.236 eating food. And and then really didn't want a nurse, so I remember I'd 00:24:43.269 --> 00:24:45.545 come home from work and try to latch her on the breast when she was 00:24:45.578 --> 00:24:49.585 sleeping and she'd wake up and just be pissed. And at every step I just 00:24:49.618 --> 00:24:53.467 get sadder and sadder and sadder. I wanted to breastfeed her and I just 00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:56.065 felt so bad and we had all these gut issues and it's just like one thing 00:24:56.098 --> 00:25:02.026 after the other and. And but she finally just like I, she finally stopped 00:25:02.059 --> 00:25:04.946 and I can't remember if she was 4. I think she was 6 months old, but she 00:25:04.979 --> 00:25:09.647 just was like, well not do it anymore. And that was about my lowest 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:16.325 emotionally where I was like I I I'm leaving. And her, she saved my life 00:25:16.358 --> 00:25:21.617 by stopping because my hormones shifted in a huge way and I pulled out of 00:25:21.650 --> 00:25:25.166 that postpartum depression very quickly and then could look back and go, 00:25:25.199 --> 00:25:31.476 Oh my gosh, I was going to kill myself, you know. So yeah, I do believe 00:25:31.509 --> 00:25:35.686 that there was a bigger process at play and she at a soul level knew 00:25:35.719 --> 00:25:42.867 exactly what she needed to do to help me. And she did. And she did. Yeah. 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:47.006 Still hard. I still wanted her to. You know, have that milk and her gut 00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.387 is messed up to this day. And again, you know, we all have things that 00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:56.226 we're going to have to meet and this was part of a bigger plan, you know, 00:25:56.259 --> 00:25:59.137 we think that we're just supposed to meet happiness and all these good 00:25:59.170 --> 00:26:03.467 things and these gut issues that she is facing 00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:08.117 that play out in many different ways in her life. are part of something 00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:12.676 that she is to transform. You know, it's like I believe that she came with 00:26:12.709 --> 00:26:16.676 that plan. She is, you know, it's like we're co-creating this process. She 00:26:16.709 --> 00:26:19.877 was wanting that for her own growth and development. I was wanting the 00:26:19.910 --> 00:26:23.585 postpartum depression experience for my own growth and development. It was 00:26:23.618 --> 00:26:30.055 all part of a bigger scheme. Did they not have the pump available to you? 00:26:30.088 --> 00:26:34.367 They did, but I didn't have much luck pumping. Um, yeah, I didn't get much 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:38.055 , I didn't have much luck, you know, expressing, even though I had plenty 00:26:38.088 --> 00:26:43.656 of milk in there. Um, she, yeah, and I think it was just because at that 00:26:43.689 --> 00:26:47.776 point I became so anxious about everything, so it was totally a stress 00:26:47.809 --> 00:26:52.585 thing, you know, it's like everything became like And I have a pretty 00:26:52.618 --> 00:26:57.825 strong stress response, you know, it's like it's yeah, and so I believe it 00:26:57.858 --> 00:27:02.387 was actually my mental emotional that was further compounding, you know, 00:27:02.420 --> 00:27:07.276 not being able to express the milk even though it was there and um. Yeah, 00:27:07.309 --> 00:27:10.676 because she, she gained weight beautifully until we started the bottle, 00:27:10.709 --> 00:27:13.805 you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a milk supply production and then then we 00:27:13.838 --> 00:27:17.717 had all the cascade of events. But again, it's, it's part of the process, 00:27:17.750 --> 00:27:20.436 you know, it's like you don't know what you're going to meet at any point 00:27:20.469 --> 00:27:24.456 along the journey and it's always 00:27:24.489 --> 00:27:28.897 How are you going to meet it, right? That's, that's, you know, it's like 00:27:28.930 --> 00:27:33.857 life can be many things. How are you going to walk through it? How are you 00:27:33.890 --> 00:27:36.976 going to respond? That's what we have control over. I didn't realize that 00:27:37.009 --> 00:27:43.847 then. A few more decades of living life and figure some things out. 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:47.496 No, I think that you're absolutely right in that, you know, it's you know 00:27:47.529 --> 00:27:52.246 how we, how we respond to difficult circumstances and challenges that 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.246 we're faced with that really, you know, show our character or build and 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:01.305 build our character, absolutely, yeah, yeah. So then, um, what was the age 00:28:01.338 --> 00:28:05.426 gap between the first and the 2nd 2.5 years. So can you talk about the 00:28:05.459 --> 00:28:13.285 conception? Was it planned or? Yeah, well, um. Let's see. Yes, both of 00:28:13.318 --> 00:28:16.986 those two. 00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:21.206 I think all 3 of well. 00:28:21.239 --> 00:28:25.906 Yeah, we weren't actually. 00:28:25.939 --> 00:28:28.976 Actively trying, but we weren't, you know, we were gonna have a bigger 00:28:29.009 --> 00:28:33.176 family and so we weren't also actively trying to avoid it, so we're kind 00:28:33.209 --> 00:28:38.045 of like, you know. Um, allowing it to be what it, you know, when it was 00:28:38.078 --> 00:28:41.637 going to be. And so I don't remember like with our first I was like, OK, 00:28:41.670 --> 00:28:44.166 we're gonna start now. And the first month I didn't get pregnant and I 00:28:44.199 --> 00:28:47.166 just fell apart and my husband was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be a 00:28:47.199 --> 00:28:52.666 long process, right? And then the second month I got pregnant, so it 00:28:52.699 --> 00:28:56.986 wasn't, um, it wasn't hard, and I think Eller was like that too. I mean, 00:28:57.019 --> 00:29:00.406 we just decided not to be, you know. 00:29:00.439 --> 00:29:05.387 Not to be using anything and. You know, a month later I'm pregnant kind of 00:29:05.420 --> 00:29:10.976 thing so. Um, So yeah, I don't remember exactly it wasn't planned like the 00:29:11.009 --> 00:29:14.137 first. It was just kind of like it's, you know, around the time that we 00:29:14.170 --> 00:29:18.217 might start thinking about another one. And you were still working as a 00:29:18.250 --> 00:29:24.075 midwife or a labor delivery nurse, um, yes, and. 00:29:24.108 --> 00:29:30.766 At that I had. I had actually stepped out. It was during my pregnancy with 00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:35.926 Ellery that I stopped working in labor and delivery. At that point, I was 00:29:35.959 --> 00:29:42.526 working like a weekend, every other weekend, and it had become so few days 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:46.446 that I remember thinking, you know, if I have to like go to the ER for a 00:29:46.479 --> 00:29:50.516 crash C-section, I'm like I haven't had been in the ER in like 8 months, 00:29:50.549 --> 00:29:53.795 you know, like I'm losing my skills because I'm not, you know, working 00:29:53.828 --> 00:29:57.956 very much. And plus I I barely went to, I just didn't, you know, it's like 00:29:57.989 --> 00:30:01.676 I didn't go to the ER a lot with the people that I was with. It just 00:30:01.709 --> 00:30:04.357 wasn't, you know, they were like, OK, let's put Peg on this so she can get 00:30:04.390 --> 00:30:08.217 in the ER. And then I get in the room and everything was switch and. 00:30:08.250 --> 00:30:11.656 They'd give birth vaginally. So that and that we were having another baby 00:30:11.689 --> 00:30:16.406 , and I decided we decided that I was just going to stop and I did 00:30:16.439 --> 00:30:19.656 something called legal nurse consulting, so I was doing that at home when 00:30:19.689 --> 00:30:23.736 I was pregnant with Ellery. So I'd stopped somewhere in that range from 00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:27.776 working at least in the hospital and was doing just paperwork kind of 00:30:27.809 --> 00:30:35.809 stuff at home. And Um, yeah, and her pregnancy was um. 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:41.627 Very different, very different, where I carried her really low, I remember 00:30:41.660 --> 00:30:47.467 , and every once in a while, the lowness of her in my pelvis, I would hit 00:30:47.500 --> 00:30:51.627 some sort of nerve in my lower pelvis and it would literally just drop me 00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:55.867 to the floor like I have to like squat down and open my leg. Because it 00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:58.825 was just this like lightning, like, I don't know how to explain it, but it 00:30:58.858 --> 00:31:02.256 was intense and I remember like I'd be in the grocery store and it might, 00:31:02.289 --> 00:31:04.785 and it would happen and people would come running like, no, I'm really OK 00:31:04.818 --> 00:31:09.666 . I just needed to get down for a minute and open whatever it was because 00:31:09.699 --> 00:31:15.696 she was so low, um. But the pregnancy was good, um, but what I had a lot 00:31:15.729 --> 00:31:21.666 of fears about was the birth. I was like, gosh, if it's like the first one. 00:31:21.699 --> 00:31:24.526 I like, I don't know if I wanna do it again, you know, it's just like, oh 00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:29.887 , that just had like I I I I probably a version of PTSD. It was so intense 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:36.946 and. Um, so I actually in that pregnancy, I developed a backup plan. I 00:31:36.979 --> 00:31:40.467 developed, so I had a midwife that would work at a hospital and I knew 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:44.676 that if I got to a certain point like I was, I was going in for. Demerol, 00:31:44.709 --> 00:31:48.476 an epidural something, right? Like I didn't want to do that again. And I 00:31:48.509 --> 00:31:51.196 remember actually when I went back to work after I'd given birth in my 00:31:51.229 --> 00:31:55.236 first, I was always the the nurse that was like, you know, they'd come in 00:31:55.269 --> 00:31:58.196 saying I want a natural birth. I'm like, I will help you. I will do 00:31:58.229 --> 00:32:02.156 whatever, you know, it's like I can help you get through this. And and I 00:32:02.189 --> 00:32:06.717 was you know it's like I, I, I had been given a gift. I was very good at 00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:11.847 being with women in birth and helping them get through it. Um, but after I 00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.206 had the my first birth, as soon as they're like, I think I want an 00:32:15.239 --> 00:32:18.506 epidural, I'd be like, OK. 00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:23.825 Let me call the anesthesiologist. We're right on that. So it shifted how I 00:32:23.858 --> 00:32:30.055 walked in birth for a little while until I. You know, it's like you learn 00:32:30.088 --> 00:32:33.867 and then you look at yourself like, OK, how much of this is me and what do 00:32:33.900 --> 00:32:37.176 they really want? And so then I'd shift it and I'd say, How about let's 00:32:37.209 --> 00:32:40.456 just get you through 3 or 4 more contractions, you know, just take it a 00:32:40.489 --> 00:32:44.897 little bit more in time, just be in time and see how they respond. And if 00:32:44.930 --> 00:32:48.137 they're really still wanting it, I wouldn't be so like before the birth, 00:32:48.170 --> 00:32:52.637 I'd be like, No, you can really do it and talk them back into it. um. I 00:32:52.670 --> 00:32:55.795 tried to meet them where they were more, you know, and honor what they 00:32:55.828 --> 00:33:03.828 really wanted to do, um. Yeah. Um, So back to Ellery, so I was afraid. I 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:09.206 was really afraid of birth the second time. And yeah, set up, so I was 00:33:09.239 --> 00:33:12.446 seeing a home birth for all my visits, but I made appointments with a 00:33:12.479 --> 00:33:15.565 hospital midwife so that I knew I had a backup so I could go in if I 00:33:15.598 --> 00:33:22.256 needed to and wanted to. And Um, the pregnancy was again uneventful other 00:33:22.289 --> 00:33:26.877 than that little shock in my pelvis in the last trimester. Um, yeah, I 00:33:26.910 --> 00:33:31.456 felt good and I had very healthy pregnancies. 00:33:31.489 --> 00:33:37.335 And yeah, you knew the sex. Um, no, with Aaron, we didn't know the sex and 00:33:37.368 --> 00:33:39.637 with Ellery. 00:33:39.670 --> 00:33:45.127 We did find out, right? I had a friend that worked in ultrasound. And we 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.406 went just to, you know, to go see real quick. I didn't want to do early 00:33:48.439 --> 00:33:53.006 ultrasounds. I really, but I was like, yeah, let's let's, so it's just my 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:58.285 husband and I that knew, um, that it was going to be a girl and it was 00:33:58.318 --> 00:34:01.045 like in the thirty-ninth week of pregnant, you know, 38th week. It was 00:34:01.078 --> 00:34:05.805 right before she was born. um, and I think that's right. I lose track of 00:34:05.838 --> 00:34:08.327 things, but I don't think we told anybody. I think we kept it to ourselves. 00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:12.327 You probably got a really good view of what she was going to look like. 00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.425 Yeah, it was sweet, though we didn't have a 3D back then, but it was, 00:34:15.458 --> 00:34:23.458 yeah, it was fun to see her. Um, And then Um, Yeah, so her birth. I 00:34:25.269 --> 00:34:29.717 remember it started in the evening and it was so easy. It was just this 00:34:29.750 --> 00:34:33.236 like super light contractions. Actually I woke up with it. That's what it 00:34:33.269 --> 00:34:37.155 was. I had gone to bed and I woke up with this like, oh, I'm having a 00:34:37.188 --> 00:34:41.046 contraction. And I thought, hm, then I lay there for another little bit 00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:43.816 and it'd be a couple easy ones and I'd be like, and then be a little bit 00:34:43.849 --> 00:34:48.477 harder I that. Well, it's too hard for me to sleep, so I, I told I said, 00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:52.006 you know, honey, I might be in early labor, keep sleeping, you know, it's 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.037 like 10 o'clock at night. I'm like, one of us should get, I don't need you 00:34:55.070 --> 00:35:00.287 right now. Go to go back to sleep. So I remember I cleaned the house like. 00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:06.066 Spotless, everything was like, so I cleaned from like 10. To like 54 or 5 00:35:06.099 --> 00:35:10.327 , 4:30 or 5, and it was the same thing. I like have a good contraction 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:14.046 then I have like three easy ones. It was so easy and I thought, boy, it's 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.655 gonna take a while at this rate, right? And so I just kept cleaning the 00:35:17.688 --> 00:35:20.486 house. I'm like, why not? I can't sleep, might as well do something. So 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:23.606 the house got totally clean and they finally got to the point where I was 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.767 having, once when I have a really strong one. I thought, well, maybe we 00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:30.236 should. Let the midwife know. So I woke up my husband, I said, you know, 00:35:30.269 --> 00:35:33.385 honey, every once in a while it's really intense. I think we should call 00:35:33.418 --> 00:35:36.865 the midwife and just give her a heads up and I think I'd like to have you 00:35:36.898 --> 00:35:41.827 with me. And, and then I have a couple not so hard ones. I'm like, I don't 00:35:41.860 --> 00:35:45.287 know, maybe we shouldn't call the midwife. And then it would hit me again 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:51.967 and be hard again. And um it was only literally in the last like, I had 00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.436 like 3 really hard ones in a row that kind of were like transition but I 00:35:57.469 --> 00:36:00.236 they just proceeded by light ones, so I was like, OK, they were really 00:36:00.269 --> 00:36:04.026 intense, but now it's OK again, but. You know, I don't know. I just don't 00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:07.876 , you know, it's like you don't know, so I'm like maybe call her to come. 00:36:07.909 --> 00:36:11.336 And maybe I'll get in the in the in the tub. So we had a birth tub, a 00:36:11.369 --> 00:36:16.115 really big nice one for this birth. It was so, it was foam. It was like 4 00:36:16.148 --> 00:36:19.517 ft deep, so it was just the right height that you could totally sit and 00:36:19.550 --> 00:36:22.155 submerge up to your neck and stand on your, you know, be on your hands and 00:36:22.188 --> 00:36:25.675 knees. It's like the perfect height and it was huge. It's like I could 00:36:25.708 --> 00:36:29.217 totally stretch it out completely. It was so nice. My husband could have 00:36:29.250 --> 00:36:31.977 gotten in, but he didn't with that one. He held me from the edge, but I 00:36:32.010 --> 00:36:35.135 just felt like I was in this womb of water and it was only at the end 00:36:35.168 --> 00:36:37.336 because I didn't want to get in because I was afraid I'd stop it. You know 00:36:37.369 --> 00:36:41.336 , it had been so off and on. I was like, I, I don't want to stop 00:36:41.369 --> 00:36:43.655 everything, you know, so I'm like, I better wait. And then I had those 00:36:43.688 --> 00:36:46.336 three hard like I could call the midwife and I think I'm gonna get in the 00:36:46.369 --> 00:36:51.856 tub now. And I got in and again that huge relaxation and then. Here it 00:36:51.889 --> 00:36:58.776 came, super hard and nonstop, the midwife came in, I don't know, not very 00:36:58.809 --> 00:37:04.666 long before. I mean, probably right when I start pushing, um. And she only 00:37:04.699 --> 00:37:11.037 lived like 15 minutes away, 1520 minutes away. And Um, I just remember 00:37:11.070 --> 00:37:14.037 telling her, I'm so afraid of this being like the first one with the 00:37:14.070 --> 00:37:18.077 rectal spasms. I'm so afraid, and I remember this, she just had such 00:37:18.110 --> 00:37:22.356 beautiful counsel. She said, Peg, this is a different birth. And she's 00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:25.316 like, was this was her was her birth up to this point different? I'm like 00:37:25.349 --> 00:37:29.945 , yeah. She said, Has your water broke? No. I know she was just pointing 00:37:29.978 --> 00:37:33.595 out the obvious like this is a completely different birth and that you can 00:37:33.628 --> 00:37:36.945 create space for it to be something, it doesn't have to be what it was, 00:37:36.978 --> 00:37:42.827 right? And to let that go, that trauma from the first. And 00:37:42.860 --> 00:37:49.385 Her bag of waters ended up breaking as her head was coming out. Um, it was 00:37:49.418 --> 00:37:55.635 pretty intact to the very end. And I remember she came out and we brought 00:37:55.668 --> 00:37:59.236 her up on my belly and she was very, she had a very short cord, which I 00:37:59.269 --> 00:38:02.195 didn't know. I just remember trying to bring her up a little harder, 00:38:02.228 --> 00:38:06.767 higher and get her head above the water and and it would just be like, ow 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.916 , something is really hurting, you know, because it was the cord kind of 00:38:09.949 --> 00:38:13.807 pulling up on me. And then we finally got to this middle space where my 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.526 husband had to hold her little chin up, so her head was above the water, 00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:20.046 but she was actually born under the water. She was born on the water and 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:26.236 they brought her up, you know, right away. Um. And so being in the water. 00:38:26.269 --> 00:38:30.195 Or before I just was in modern labor the first time and then the second 00:38:30.228 --> 00:38:34.717 birth obviously and the water not having broken. I mean it was like night 00:38:34.750 --> 00:38:39.077 and day the birth, and the second baby had already and she was smaller, 00:38:39.110 --> 00:38:43.416 she was 714, so not a lot smaller, but Apparently enough to make, you know 00:38:43.449 --> 00:38:49.175 , a difference, and by far it was my easiest birth and I remember so much 00:38:49.208 --> 00:38:53.336 as soon as she came out, I looked at one of the midwives, I said. Now I 00:38:53.369 --> 00:38:56.876 could do that again, you know, it was like it wasn't the first experience 00:38:56.909 --> 00:39:00.776 like I thought, and it was just like, and I feel like that was one of her 00:39:00.809 --> 00:39:05.336 gifts, you know, I feel like, you know, the spasms that I was having 00:39:05.369 --> 00:39:08.856 earlier in pregnancy was almost like a preamble, you know, I did some of 00:39:08.889 --> 00:39:16.135 the work there um for labor, you know, in a way, um, and that, yeah, and 00:39:16.168 --> 00:39:21.217 who she is as a being, you know, it's like she's gonna make it. She's not 00:39:21.250 --> 00:39:25.695 gonna make it hard, you know, it's like she, as a soul, she would try to 00:39:25.728 --> 00:39:29.537 make it as easy as possible, and she did, you know, that and that again 00:39:29.570 --> 00:39:34.905 that co-creative process we're in it together. And she healed my trauma 00:39:34.938 --> 00:39:38.396 from not being able to nurse that girl, all she wanted to do was nurse all 00:39:38.429 --> 00:39:45.885 the time. And I remember trying to wean her so many times. She was like 2 00:39:45.918 --> 00:39:51.206 1/2 when I finally weaned her. And at the time, I mean it was nice because 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:56.646 it did heal a lot of the wounds that I had created with the first or had 00:39:56.679 --> 00:40:01.126 um with not being able to nurse and just having it be so successful and 00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:04.845 she was very allergic. Um, as soon as my milk came in, she started 00:40:04.878 --> 00:40:07.706 bleeding. And we didn't know if it was vaginally or recttal because you 00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:11.345 know how they can have the hormonal shift. It was definitely rectal and 00:40:11.378 --> 00:40:15.456 found out that she was severely allergic to any dairy, so I had to 00:40:15.489 --> 00:40:18.586 completely cut all dairy out and if I like went to a restaurant and didn't 00:40:18.619 --> 00:40:21.706 know it and they put a little bit of butter in, she would like sleep for 00:40:21.739 --> 00:40:27.956 two days and bleed. So she was very, very sensitive, um, so. Um, so change 00:40:27.989 --> 00:40:32.646 my diet for that, but again, like the nursing was just. It just was such a 00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.646 blessing, you know, to have that experience after the first and um just to 00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:42.006 get to enjoy it so much and then she enjoyed it so much. And then with her 00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:45.526 having these sensitivities, it was probably good that she had that and she 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:49.606 was resisting being weaned because she knew the state of her gut, I 00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:53.006 believe. It's like she knew that it wasn't the right time and that she 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:57.287 needed more of um. Now anthroposophically, we looked at things a little 00:40:57.320 --> 00:41:00.486 different than about a year is a good time to wean because as soon as the 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:07.747 baby stands upright into their into their eye, um. That it's time to wean 00:41:07.780 --> 00:41:12.606 away from the mom's, you know, it's time for them to stand and when 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:15.727 they're constantly drinking the mom's milk, it's full of the mom's ego and 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:21.606 the mom's eye, um, but you can also look at it as risk benefit and balance 00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:26.646 that she had a significant gut issue and that it had a healing um piece to 00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:29.896 it. And I remember I went away on a trip and I thought, OK, I'm gonna be 00:41:29.929 --> 00:41:33.106 gone for the weekend when I come back, surely. And she was old enough at 2 00:41:33.139 --> 00:41:36.856 1/2. I mean, she was, she was bargaining. She'd be like, Mom, mommy, my 00:41:36.889 --> 00:41:39.936 milk, and I'd be like, no, honey, you know, it's like we're gonna have 00:41:39.969 --> 00:41:45.186 this kind of milk and she's like, please. I'm like, no honey, she's like. 00:41:45.219 --> 00:41:48.626 Just one side. I remember her like really bargaining to me. I'm like, 00:41:48.659 --> 00:41:54.827 honey, no, and she's just teeny teeny tiny bit one side like oh the girl, 00:41:54.860 --> 00:42:01.206 she's a very great negotiator, let me tell you. So, um, 00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:05.977 So I think yeah, it was about 215 and she probably looking back, her gut 00:42:06.010 --> 00:42:11.845 really started to um. At 3 that some big shifts were made, like she 00:42:11.878 --> 00:42:14.566 actually developed a few other food allergies in that time that we had to 00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:18.206 pull away. I remember strawberries and a few other things that came up 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:23.686 after weaning um that might have, but we just, you know, it's like she's 00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:27.845 good and it's her process too, right? Does she still have dairy issues now 00:42:27.878 --> 00:42:34.287 ? Yeah, kind of, um, not, not nearly as much, um, but yeah, she has a 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:37.175 sensitivity there. 00:42:37.208 --> 00:42:41.586 Yeah, it's something that she can. She doesn't drink milk, that might not 00:42:41.619 --> 00:42:44.695 be very comfortable, but like high fat butter and that kind of stuff is OK 00:42:44.728 --> 00:42:48.885 , but when we, we did test her at some point, she had allergies to. The 00:42:48.918 --> 00:42:56.918 case in the way, like 3 properties of milk. Um, so it was, yeah. But her 00:42:57.168 --> 00:43:01.497 gut, you know, she's an adult now, so it's probably just a mild, yeah, 00:43:01.530 --> 00:43:05.776 it's not a true allergy kind of thing anymore. That was a really beautiful 00:43:05.809 --> 00:43:13.296 story. Yeah, it was really great, um. Yeah, it's that was, it was just 00:43:13.329 --> 00:43:17.017 like such a nice pairing, you know, and the changes that happened from the 00:43:17.050 --> 00:43:20.925 first birth to the second. Yeah, and the healing and the new awarenesses 00:43:20.958 --> 00:43:26.557 and. Yeah, and that we walk together as souls, you know, how to help each 00:43:26.590 --> 00:43:34.590 other. Yeah. That's a condition. Maybe keep that for the end. Um, so then 00:43:34.849 --> 00:43:39.247 was the third one different? Yes, all three of them were different. So I 00:43:39.280 --> 00:43:42.856 want to tell you that one of the things that we did that um I'd like to 00:43:42.889 --> 00:43:46.296 pull in cause it was just such a beautiful practice, um, one was we did 00:43:46.329 --> 00:43:53.546 belly casts, um, and with Ellery, I got invited to a blessing way. Um, 00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:59.026 which was organized by Pam England, the midwife, and very ceremonial. Um, 00:43:59.059 --> 00:44:05.546 we went out at dawn, and the morning it was a very cool morning in the 00:44:05.579 --> 00:44:13.579 fall. It was cold, it was frosty. And Um, we went out and. Uh what 00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:18.586 succession, I guess that's not the right word, but um we had drums. There 00:44:18.619 --> 00:44:22.796 was drumming and there were women that were going to be with us breathing 00:44:22.829 --> 00:44:26.517 women, and then there are the midwives and there were other people just 00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:29.876 you know, assistants, all women though, and we went out and made a big 00:44:29.909 --> 00:44:37.206 circle in this field and you know she asks, Are you willing to go into the 00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:42.876 unknown? And so those of us that were pregnant and Being blessed, had no 00:44:42.909 --> 00:44:46.836 idea what was going to happen. Everybody else did, and she basically, I 00:44:46.869 --> 00:44:51.236 mean there were prayers and ceremony and song, and then it basically 00:44:51.269 --> 00:44:54.287 created these stations, so each of the women in the circle were a station 00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:59.195 that you were to go to and so it just took just one at a time you went to 00:44:59.228 --> 00:45:02.876 the station and something that you didn't know was coming would happened. 00:45:02.909 --> 00:45:08.267 So what it ended up being at the end was that we were completely naked. 00:45:08.300 --> 00:45:15.486 With painting like on ourselves, um. And there it's like that was a big 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.445 thing like I remember like this, you know, like um not knowing what was 00:45:19.478 --> 00:45:24.526 coming and just having to take what it was and then um being prepared like 00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:29.327 kind of as a warrior, you know, to go into that space and be given power. 00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:33.586 And then at the end I remember she got up on this ladder and took this 00:45:33.619 --> 00:45:37.905 huge vessel, big round, you know, she could barely get up the stairs. It 00:45:37.938 --> 00:45:40.586 was so heavy up this up the ladder, it was so vessel, and she took it to 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:46.615 the top and ceremoniously held it out and dropped it and it just. 00:45:46.648 --> 00:45:50.706 Again, you know, just as a symbol of that transformative peace that comes 00:45:50.739 --> 00:45:55.706 with the birth and that you're not the same as the way you were before. 00:45:55.739 --> 00:46:00.686 Before I talk about another thing is that I do remember. After my first 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:05.247 birth and after I did it. That was my first thought, like, first, the pain 00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:12.365 was over and the second was I did it. And that moment of empowerment. I'd 00:46:12.398 --> 00:46:18.175 never experienced anything like that before, you know, like, wow, I mean, 00:46:18.208 --> 00:46:22.787 I'm the only one who knows what that was like to me. 00:46:22.820 --> 00:46:27.646 And and so it was my power, it was my knowing, it was my experience of wow 00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:35.679 , if I can do that, what can I not do? Right? What can I not do? So one of 00:46:36.550 --> 00:46:39.796 the other things that the midwives, um, my first my first birth, Pam, she 00:46:39.829 --> 00:46:45.675 said, think of a little song, Peg, that you can sing to the baby now. And 00:46:45.708 --> 00:46:50.037 that when she's born, she can, you can use it to soothe her, which was 00:46:50.070 --> 00:46:54.316 good because she was so colicky with all the gut issues. She was just so, 00:46:54.349 --> 00:46:58.836 she just had such a hard little baby childhood, her young 3 to 6 months 00:46:58.869 --> 00:47:01.787 until she started eating food. We gave her food, she was so much happier, 00:47:01.820 --> 00:47:05.836 like get off the milk and she was like, oh, thank goodness. Um, so we sang 00:47:05.869 --> 00:47:10.586 , for her, I picked a song. Um, out of a book, I used to be an early 00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:17.836 childhood educator and it went like this. It was um. I love you forever. I 00:47:17.869 --> 00:47:25.869 like you for always, as long as I'm living your mommy, I'll be. And then 00:47:25.909 --> 00:47:30.827 the second birth with the pregnancy, that she told me that at the very end. 00:47:30.860 --> 00:47:33.026 So I just kind of quickly I'm like, OK, I'm going to do this one. This 00:47:33.059 --> 00:47:36.425 sounds pretty good. So with Ellay, I started thinking about it. I was like 00:47:36.458 --> 00:47:40.827 , oh yeah, I'd like to think about this song and a song came. It actually 00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:45.356 came off of one of the Uh, I don't know where it came. I just turned on 00:47:45.389 --> 00:47:49.425 one of the kids. I don't know where it was, but it came to me and it, it 00:47:49.458 --> 00:47:52.577 went like this, um. 00:47:52.610 --> 00:47:57.675 Was 00:47:57.708 --> 00:48:00.896 Let's see 00:48:00.929 --> 00:48:08.929 The I saw you. I want to hold you and keep you warm on a cold gray morning. 00:48:15.418 --> 00:48:23.418 The I held you. I wanted to kiss you. Oh, brings it up for me and well 00:48:25.699 --> 00:48:33.699 come you here on the day you were born. So she ended up being born on a 00:48:34.750 --> 00:48:38.517 cold winter's morn, like as the sun was coming up at like 7:45 and it was 00:48:38.550 --> 00:48:42.816 so cold. And the song came way before even, you know, it's like it just it 00:48:42.849 --> 00:48:47.767 was just so reflective of exactly the process that took place. And then my 00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:53.695 sons. Um, that one just came to again, you know, it's like the older I get 00:48:53.728 --> 00:48:59.445 , the more I realize that if you just pay attention. Everything comes, 00:48:59.478 --> 00:49:04.037 that you don't have to force it. You don't have to. Everything that you, 00:49:04.070 --> 00:49:08.037 yeah, it will be there and it will show up for you. You know, it's like 00:49:08.070 --> 00:49:12.997 the universe, you know, that whole thing in the universe provides. It does. 00:49:13.030 --> 00:49:17.595 You just have to be observant and watch for it to show up because it'll 00:49:17.628 --> 00:49:23.865 always be given. So this was another song, same thing. Um, and it was. Um 00:49:23.898 --> 00:49:31.898 , Wherever you rest your head tonight. We are all one family. Let's hold 00:49:33.820 --> 00:49:39.747 tight and fill the world with dreams of harmony 00:49:39.780 --> 00:49:46.876 tonight. And he was born in the evening. And it was a song that, you know 00:49:46.909 --> 00:49:49.916 , because at that point, I, you know, it's like I didn't think we'd have 00:49:49.949 --> 00:49:54.796 another, you know, it's like our family was complete, um, in a microcosm 00:49:54.829 --> 00:50:00.046 and also in a, you know, bigger microcosm. 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:05.046 So to his birth, you know, um, or pregnancy, I'll start with that. So I 00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:10.135 knew pretty early he was a boy. Because I smelled like a boy, like when I 00:50:10.168 --> 00:50:15.307 go to the bathroom and I'd wipe, I'm like, I smell like. 00:50:15.340 --> 00:50:21.195 Musty, you know, like just like. Like I was wiping my husband's perineum 00:50:21.228 --> 00:50:24.195 instead of mine. 00:50:24.228 --> 00:50:27.365 And so I, you know, I was like this is very different than the girls. And 00:50:27.398 --> 00:50:30.287 the girl's pregnancy were very different. Erin I carried very high. Ellery 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.166 I carried very low. And so I actually thought for a while that Ellery 00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.236 would be a boy just because of the difference in pregnancy. And then when 00:50:36.269 --> 00:50:39.606 I had with the third pregnancy and I had that smell, I'm like, this is 00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:47.486 definitely a boy, honey. Like there's no question about it. Um, And I 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.247 remember when I, so with him, like I was really thinking I wanted another 00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:57.327 baby and my husband like, yeah, maybe. And but we again weren't like 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:03.336 actively. Trying to prevent it and I remember taking the pregnancy test 00:51:03.369 --> 00:51:09.186 and he wasn't there and I decided I want to try to figure out how to tell 00:51:09.219 --> 00:51:16.467 him and so he used to come home every day for lunch and I made a salad 00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:21.655 with an egg, a hard boiled egg, and we had some sprouts. And so I put the 00:51:21.688 --> 00:51:25.945 sprout, like one sprout, right on the top of the egg to represent the 00:51:25.978 --> 00:51:30.425 sperm and the egg to represent the egg and then made like a very phallic, 00:51:30.458 --> 00:51:34.186 like a carrot and or cucumber with two other round things to make it look 00:51:34.219 --> 00:51:39.336 like a penis, you know, ejaculating and. So he sits down to lunch and he's 00:51:39.369 --> 00:51:42.936 like one sprout on the egg, you know, he's like totally clueless as to 00:51:42.969 --> 00:51:48.126 this landscape that I've laid out in front of him. I like, so honey, do 00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:50.695 you know anything about your lunch? He's like, yeah, there's a sprout on 00:51:50.728 --> 00:51:55.615 the egg. I'm like. Anything else about he's like, well, it looks a little 00:51:55.648 --> 00:51:58.356 phallic. 00:51:58.389 --> 00:52:01.356 And I just pretty much had to lead them all along and I was like, does 00:52:01.389 --> 00:52:06.956 this mean something? I'm like, yes, it does. And I don't remember exact 00:52:06.989 --> 00:52:11.717 words, but he he did clue in eventually, um. 00:52:11.750 --> 00:52:15.717 Um, yeah, so, and it was another symbol, you know, it's like I'd put in 00:52:15.750 --> 00:52:19.546 the boy parts right there on the plate. That was actually probably even 00:52:19.579 --> 00:52:24.856 before I. Um, had the smell, you know, that was like, you know, you like 3 00:52:24.889 --> 00:52:30.135 weeks pregnant or something, um. And 00:52:30.168 --> 00:52:34.416 Yeah, anyway, interesting how symbols come up like that, you know how you 00:52:34.449 --> 00:52:39.706 don't even think about it, you know, unconscious things. And let's see, so 00:52:39.739 --> 00:52:45.566 I was at that point just a stay at home mom and our. My oldest daughter 00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:48.206 was getting ready to start school, so I remember I was investigating 00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:51.577 schools and I wanted to do Waldorf education. The only one was in Santa Fe 00:52:51.610 --> 00:52:55.566 , and so it's a lot on my mind with that pregnancy and where she was going 00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:00.405 to go to school or how it was gonna look if it's gonna home school and um 00:53:00.438 --> 00:53:03.595 because Phillip was going to be born about 6 weeks before her school year 00:53:03.628 --> 00:53:10.336 would start. And um with the 3rd pregnancy, You know, it's like you're 00:53:10.369 --> 00:53:14.336 busy with the other two and you really don't give much thought to it. Like 00:53:14.369 --> 00:53:17.217 I remember the first pregnancy, you know that saying like it'll be the 00:53:17.250 --> 00:53:21.057 longest short time you've ever had, you know, this, this like it is a 00:53:21.090 --> 00:53:24.256 short time, but it just seems like it goes forever waiting for that baby, 00:53:24.289 --> 00:53:28.717 and the third pregnancy, it's just like, wow, I'm like. 7 months. How that 00:53:28.750 --> 00:53:33.486 wait? I was just 2 months, you know, just a little while ago, um. So it 00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:38.046 went really fast. I remember that. And I remember having a dream that I 00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:44.135 was gonna give birth all by myself, and that it was gonna be really quick. 00:53:44.168 --> 00:53:47.856 And Um, 00:53:47.889 --> 00:53:51.095 And so I. 00:53:51.128 --> 00:53:54.776 had read to the girls and we were laying down to take a nap and my eldest 00:53:54.809 --> 00:53:57.856 daughter, she said, I hated it when you were pregnant and we had to lay 00:53:57.889 --> 00:54:01.175 down and take a nap because I didn't want to take a nap and she was like 5 00:54:01.208 --> 00:54:03.706 at the time, which, right, but she still actually did a lot better with a 00:54:03.739 --> 00:54:06.896 nap, but you know, in hindsight, she was like, I hate to lay down. I was 00:54:06.929 --> 00:54:11.736 like, I needed a nap. I needed to lay down so you're gonna lay down and 00:54:11.769 --> 00:54:16.017 she don't fall asleep anyway. um. But I had laid down for a nap and had 00:54:16.050 --> 00:54:19.615 fallen asleep and woke up and um my water had broken. So I was like, oh, 00:54:19.648 --> 00:54:22.376 looks like it's gonna be sometime around today, and I dreamed it was on 00:54:22.409 --> 00:54:25.977 the 4th of July and it was on the 3rd. It was the 3rd when my water broke 00:54:26.010 --> 00:54:28.787 and in the afternoon so I thought, oh, we are gonna have a 4th of July 00:54:28.820 --> 00:54:34.416 baby. And so, um, so yeah, I called my husband like, hey, honey, my water 00:54:34.449 --> 00:54:39.336 broke and um. You know, so we're gonna have a baby here soon. I called the 00:54:39.369 --> 00:54:42.776 midwife and told her just what was going on. I wasn't in labor at all and 00:54:42.809 --> 00:54:47.537 then I let her know. And so We were getting ready for a big party the next 00:54:47.570 --> 00:54:54.017 day at the house for 4th of July and. Um, And my husband was like, well, 00:54:54.050 --> 00:54:56.776 what do you wanna do? You know, it's like, do you want to have the kids 00:54:56.809 --> 00:54:59.256 here? Do you wanna, you and me go out to dinner? Do you want to cook? I'm 00:54:59.289 --> 00:55:03.537 like, well I have to cook this potato salad for the big party tomorrow. So 00:55:03.570 --> 00:55:07.175 I was like, I think I'm gonna put the potatoes on and the and the plant, I 00:55:07.208 --> 00:55:10.405 remember it changed like 6 times, like maybe we'll go out, no, let's eat 00:55:10.438 --> 00:55:13.727 here, and we'll go to the neighbors and eat and we finally settled that 00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:18.336 we're gonna go out to eat and so he's like, well, let me go bring the kids 00:55:18.369 --> 00:55:24.376 to. Grandma's, which is like literally a mile away, and I'm like, OK, I'll 00:55:24.409 --> 00:55:28.385 go bring the potatoes to the neighbor and have her finish those up for us. 00:55:28.418 --> 00:55:33.155 So I think I brought the potatoes to the neighbor and he brought kids. No 00:55:33.188 --> 00:55:37.615 , I think no, he just, no, I went up to change, I think he brought one of 00:55:37.648 --> 00:55:39.376 us brought the potatoes and the neighbor said, Hey, will you finish 00:55:39.409 --> 00:55:42.497 boiling these and we'll get them later to finish the salad. I'm going to 00:55:42.530 --> 00:55:45.175 take the kids and, you know, Peg's water broke and we're just gonna go to 00:55:45.208 --> 00:55:48.077 dinner or something. So he took the potatoes, you got the kids, they got 00:55:48.110 --> 00:55:54.175 in the car and he got about halfway to grandma's and I got about upstairs. 00:55:54.208 --> 00:56:02.208 And Labor hit So hard I couldn't get from the bed to the telephone table 00:56:02.219 --> 00:56:06.977 , which was over across the room from here to that wall, you know, 20 ft, 00:56:07.010 --> 00:56:10.537 and he at that moment had the thought like, oh my gosh, I just left Peg 00:56:10.570 --> 00:56:15.595 alone, and she's had this dream that she's giving birth all by herself. 00:56:15.628 --> 00:56:19.776 And so And I'm like, I need to call Phil and tell him so he can call the 00:56:19.809 --> 00:56:24.497 midwife. I could not move. There was no break in between. I was just like 00:56:24.530 --> 00:56:27.615 one contraction after the other after the other, and I was just like, so I 00:56:27.648 --> 00:56:31.436 started talking to the baby, and I was like, OK, I know you're in a hurry 00:56:31.469 --> 00:56:36.057 , but I, you need to breathe and I need to breathe. And I was worried 00:56:36.090 --> 00:56:38.526 about Anoxia, you know, it's like it was just this one constant 00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:41.416 contraction, you know, I it's like I know too much, like, am I abrupting? 00:56:41.449 --> 00:56:44.175 That was my thought, like, oh my gosh, this is what happens when somebody 00:56:44.208 --> 00:56:47.945 abrupts. You know, one, it's just to get the baby out as fast as possible 00:56:47.978 --> 00:56:51.467 because the placenta is ripping off and sometimes you know too much, you 00:56:51.500 --> 00:56:54.626 know, I'm just like, but I couldn't move. I literally could not move from 00:56:54.659 --> 00:56:59.077 the side of the bed. And Phil realizes what he's done. He's trying to call 00:56:59.110 --> 00:57:02.635 now. I can't get to the phone. He turned, drops the kids off, turns around 00:57:02.668 --> 00:57:05.836 , comes rip them back in the door. I'm like, honey, he's like, I already 00:57:05.869 --> 00:57:08.477 called her, you know, like he already, I think if I remember, he already 00:57:08.510 --> 00:57:11.586 knew her. I screamed immediately like, Call the midwife. And he came up 00:57:11.619 --> 00:57:17.195 and um helped me. I think I was half dressed at that point and um he'd 00:57:17.228 --> 00:57:20.876 already started to, I think, fill the birth tub. It's hard to, something 00:57:20.909 --> 00:57:24.615 like that because I know that I got in the tub for a short period of time. 00:57:24.648 --> 00:57:28.896 We called my friend who was going to take pictures. We called the midwife 00:57:28.929 --> 00:57:35.106 and um she got there as his head was coming out um and I remember reaching 00:57:35.139 --> 00:57:39.977 down to feel him and I felt what I thought was the cord, you know, and I 00:57:40.010 --> 00:57:44.936 was a little traumatized by the. The rapidity of it, how fast it was. But 00:57:44.969 --> 00:57:47.776 you know, I, I told you I had that conversation with him. I said, honey, I 00:57:47.809 --> 00:57:50.615 was just talking to they were like, Baby, you got to slow things down here. 00:57:50.648 --> 00:57:54.307 Neither of us can handle this. It's like it has to, we need a break. And 00:57:54.340 --> 00:57:58.217 he did. I mean, it was after my husband came, but things did slow down a 00:57:58.250 --> 00:58:02.227 little bit and I got a little break in between contractions. And so he 00:58:02.260 --> 00:58:06.077 helped me get downstairs and into the birth tub, but yeah, the, the 00:58:06.110 --> 00:58:09.945 photographer friend of mine who had just had a baby a couple of months ago 00:58:09.978 --> 00:58:12.827 was like getting the towels ready because I was already, you know, I just 00:58:12.860 --> 00:58:16.307 pretty much went into pushing and you know that stage of it just was fast 00:58:16.340 --> 00:58:22.586 , so I think about an hour um for beginning to end. And um, yeah, midwife 00:58:22.619 --> 00:58:25.467 came in and I'm like, I think it's a cord and she went and touch she's 00:58:25.500 --> 00:58:29.327 like, no, it's his ear. I'm like, oh thank God. 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:36.227 And yeah, a couple pushes and. Uh, I don't remember. Yeah, I just, it was 00:58:36.260 --> 00:58:39.546 intense. I remember it just it almost like trying to hold him in, you know 00:58:39.579 --> 00:58:45.566 , just to slow it down like, oh my gosh, it's so fast. Did you tear? Um, 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:51.066 not too much. I tore a little bit with Aaron, um. And they didn't stitch 00:58:51.099 --> 00:58:54.416 it, and if there, if there was anything with the other two, it was very 00:58:54.449 --> 00:59:02.166 minor. It wasn't anything to, yeah. I think hardly so now again that. The 00:59:02.199 --> 00:59:07.445 body is wise, you know, when you can feel and be, you know, and I mean 00:59:07.478 --> 00:59:11.236 sometimes you just cause it's, you know, it's supposed to happen. I know 00:59:11.269 --> 00:59:17.666 it is what it is, there's no right or wrong. Yeah, and he, um. I remember 00:59:17.699 --> 00:59:22.345 when he came out and he, he looked just like my brother to me and feels 00:59:22.378 --> 00:59:25.986 like he looks just like me, so it's interesting we had. And he still 00:59:26.019 --> 00:59:31.217 looked at him he's like, he looks just like me. And We had agreed not to 00:59:31.250 --> 00:59:37.006 ever name our children our name. And right there it's like it just came 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:41.845 he's like he looks just like me. Can we name him Philip? I was like, well 00:59:41.878 --> 00:59:45.126 , I guess. 00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:47.686 Sure, I thought we weren't gonna do that, but yeah, I mean, that's what 00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:50.885 you really want to do, and you know it's kind of sweet. So we end up with 00:59:50.918 --> 00:59:55.166 a very long name, Philip Zane, which stands for John, which is his family 00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:59.445 name, and Patrick, which is my brother's name, Freisinger. So whew, that 00:59:59.478 --> 01:00:02.686 is it. And it was cute because if you put the two initials in the middle, 01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:07.046 it's Philip Zippy Freisinger, which is, you know, kind of reflective of 01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:12.477 his birth. It was really fast, and he was the most easygoing. So in 01:00:12.510 --> 01:00:17.046 anthroposcopy, we look at human beings. One of the ways we look at them is 01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:21.276 in what's called a threefold way, and there are those people that we call 01:00:21.309 --> 01:00:25.767 nerve scents that are very, they take in the world, they're very smart, 01:00:25.800 --> 01:00:32.006 they walk really early as babies, um, they're very alert, but also, you 01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:36.967 know, there can be issues with anxiety and um just because they, it's so, 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:40.727 they just see everything. They're not dreamy, they're here and that's very 01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:46.046 much my first child. She's a nerve sense baby. And then Ellery. Uh, my 01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:51.236 second girl, um, she'd be more what we call metabolic type, where those 01:00:51.269 --> 01:00:55.247 people are babies are much more dreamy. Um, they spend a lot of time in 01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:02.086 imagination. She had tons of imaginary friends, um. And they're more of a 01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:06.845 creative force in the world. So the nerve sense types are the thinkers, 01:01:06.878 --> 01:01:10.606 and the metabolic types are the doers. They have a will force and they're 01:01:10.639 --> 01:01:13.885 very creative and very artistic and can walk in the world. So that was 01:01:13.918 --> 01:01:20.537 Ellery and then the third one is the middle realm, the rhythmical um um 01:01:20.570 --> 01:01:24.925 aspect of the being which reflects the heart and the lung, and it helps 01:01:24.958 --> 01:01:29.115 keep balance between the thinking. And the will, the doing and the feeling 01:01:29.148 --> 01:01:32.997 and the will. So, sorry, not the feeling, it is a feeling wrong. And my 01:01:33.030 --> 01:01:37.166 son is very much that. He's very, I remember him just I told him and he 01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:41.595 just kind of hang there, you know, it was just so like, he just, he put 01:01:41.628 --> 01:01:44.557 him down anywhere, he'd lay around. I mean, typical third baby, right? 01:01:44.590 --> 01:01:48.836 They're just, they're so easygoing and he'd take a nap anywhere. He never 01:01:48.869 --> 01:01:53.356 had a schedule like my first had to have a schedule where she'd freak out. 01:01:53.389 --> 01:01:56.635 Again that birth order thing, there's something to these characteristics 01:01:56.668 --> 01:02:02.037 that come with birth order. um, but yeah, he and he nursed right to a year 01:02:02.070 --> 01:02:09.477 , um, it was always easy. Everything was just so easy with him. He just, 01:02:09.510 --> 01:02:15.635 yeah, it just. Just hung out, literally, you know, it's just like, all 01:02:15.668 --> 01:02:23.668 right, this place is not so bad, you know. Yeah, so, um. Yeah, it was. 01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:29.695 Yeah, really good. 01:02:29.728 --> 01:02:37.728 Intense, but Good. Yeah, we normally ask, um, because we. We don't like to 01:02:38.978 --> 01:02:43.135 categorize these stories as like C-section, home birth, you know, because 01:02:43.168 --> 01:02:48.106 there's so much more nuanced than just those terrible categories and so um 01:02:48.139 --> 01:02:52.546 and so we have we have 4 categories now we are themes we're calling them 01:02:52.579 --> 01:02:58.425 and then more merge as we go on. So right now we have faith, connection. 01:02:58.458 --> 01:03:02.856 What are we talking about, uh. Is the sensual sensory, that's what it is 01:03:02.889 --> 01:03:08.856 , sensory and trauma. Um, and trauma doesn't mean just a terrible birth or 01:03:08.889 --> 01:03:14.217 anything. It could mean a lot of things. But, um, and so we'll ask our 01:03:14.250 --> 01:03:17.695 storytellers sometimes, can you think of a word or a phrasing of words 01:03:17.728 --> 01:03:22.615 that kind of encapsulates or describes your birth experience, even though 01:03:22.648 --> 01:03:26.967 you have three very different births. So using one of those four words, no 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:31.445 , so it could be anything, but that's that's partly why I asked because 01:03:31.478 --> 01:03:36.566 with you, you know, transformation seems like such the term, but maybe 01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:41.506 there's something else that where if you want to elaborate. 01:03:41.539 --> 01:03:46.586 Um, 01:03:46.619 --> 01:03:50.086 Yeah, I would say. 01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:54.967 Uh, transformative growth maybe, or even transformative healing or 01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:01.365 sequential healing even might be appropriate, um. Yeah, there's so many 01:04:01.398 --> 01:04:04.537 ways that, see, I'm one of those, you know, people ask me, what's your 01:04:04.570 --> 01:04:07.267 favorite? I don't have a favorite anything, you know, it's like I can 01:04:07.300 --> 01:04:09.537 appreciate aspects of so many different things, and that's kind of when 01:04:09.570 --> 01:04:13.686 you're asked to call upon one phrase. I'm like, Well, there's like 1000 01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:17.856 phrases that I could put to this experience on so many levels. Well, yours 01:04:17.889 --> 01:04:21.057 actually fits in all of those categories. That's the funny thing because 01:04:21.090 --> 01:04:27.827 you're so connected, you know, with um. You know, with, with your body and 01:04:27.860 --> 01:04:30.706 you know with the universe as cheese ball as that might sound, but you 01:04:30.739 --> 01:04:35.706 know, seeing those signs and accepting the symbols and all of that and um 01:04:35.739 --> 01:04:39.345 kind of just going with the flow and all of that and then of course the 01:04:39.378 --> 01:04:44.865 traumatic aspects and the sensory aspects because you know, yeah, it's 01:04:44.898 --> 01:04:52.405 very interesting. Yeah, um, and And that I mean. If I had to bring it to 01:04:52.438 --> 01:04:58.655 one word, it would be initiation. You know, it really would be. 01:04:58.688 --> 01:05:01.727 Um, 01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:04.977 So 01:05:05.010 --> 01:05:11.425 The transformative power of. The transformative 01:05:11.458 --> 01:05:17.115 Transformation of self through the initiation of birth. Maybe something 01:05:17.148 --> 01:05:23.256 like that. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah. 01:05:23.289 --> 01:05:28.236 OK, actually, do you have any other questions? 01:05:28.269 --> 01:05:34.289 OK. Do you wanna add anything else? No, I don't think so. OK, thank you.