I'm, this is Boris Solis interviewing for the Creative Push project on
December 18th, the 18th, yeah, at Um, 11:45. So can you state your name
and age? OK. My name is Peg Freisinger and I'm 50. Great. So go ahead and
um maybe start kind of like, um, you know, introduce what you were talking
about. OK, all right. I was speaking about um my walk in this life with
something called anthroposophical medicine and the use of biography as a
method to know oneself, as a method to look at. Places in one life where
we come to a threshold, we meet a right of initiation, a transformative
time in our life, and um for Um, if you look in ancient cultures, um, men
often had some sort of right of initiation, a passageway. Um, often it was
around puberty where um they were coming into manhood, right, and they
were sent off to kill the lion or whatever it is, um, and that women in
these cultures that we in a way have. A rite of passage built in if we're
given the if we have the opportunity to give birth, um, it truly can be a
rite of initiation, a moment where you're brought to a threshold, a
completely transformative event where you really have to venture into the
unknown, not knowing what is going to come to pass. And um to you know
have courage and to go within to know that um you have the strength that
you need to get through the process, whichever whatever way it's going to
look and wherever you decide to do it and um and that and even you know as
women, if we say we want to have a child and and for some reason we cannot
conceive that too is you know another another threshold moment. Um, so in
, so in anthroposophical medicine, looking at biography, we look at these
, um, aspects. Oh, I'm sorry, I think that's it's.
That's It's gonna Yeah Um, That
Human lives have far more similarities than we realize and these moments
of these passageways, these
initiations.
Um, can look like many different things. It can look like a health crisis.
It can look like a husband leaving a wife. It can look, you know, there's
many different ways, but we all are going to meet them, and all of them
are opportunities to grow and to love, you know, deep in the love and to
learn about oneself. And so in a broader perspective, um, Yeah, birth is a
very powerful. Um,
Mode of initiation.
Excellent. I'm going to cough. That has been something that we've um
really keyed in on is this idea of transformation and how and
self-discovery and how women oftentimes say they found this strength they
didn't know they had or their character was built really upon that birth
experience. And they had to um You know, because oftentimes we're up
against a lot of opinions from others that it helps you to define what
your opinion is and to solidify your ideas and perspectives. Yes,
absolutely. I tell them, well, I walk with people, you know, like I'm
human too. I'm walking in this and that we don't really learn anything
when everything's going great. It is through the struggle. It is through
hard times, and not that it's not possible, it is possible to learn
through joy, absolutely, but big transformative pieces usually come with
some sort of pain. So on an emotional level, on a physical level, and how
do we transform that, um. I have this quote that I have on my email and it
says something like that. The road to wholeness is not always pretty and
it doesn't always feel good, but it's always worth the journey. So it's
along those lines. So what about your birth, um, journey? How did that
begin? All right. Well, at the time I was working in labor and delivery as
a nurse and we had actually plans to go to graduate school and become a
certified nurse midwife and um. So I thought, well, you know, it's like I
was in school, made sense to actually go work in that area. So I was
working first as a student and then as a graduate. And what I realized
actually being in there and I worked in a beautiful place for birth, we
had what we call LDRPs, their labor delivery recovery postpartum. The baby
was never taken from the mom unless it was really a need to. Most of the
deliveries were done by midwives. They always had a doctor on call and you
know, there was an operating room there if need be, but it was a very low
risk hospital. We just did, I think what they referred to as level 1
nursery, so only babies 36 weeks gestation and beyond. So nothing was high
risk, and we had deep big tubs for the women to get into and big rooms. I
mean some of them were as big as this hotel room where there would be as
many families people wanted and the room were allowed. So as far as
hospital births go, it was a very beautiful environment. But even that,
when I got into it, I realized pretty quickly that I didn't know that that
was gonna be my path, at least to do, even though it was a really
beautiful thing. I mean, I learned about myself and you know, even though
it was this great environment that you know they could pretty much do what
they wanted and if you, I mean depending on your nurse and your midwife,
and like I was I was personally pretty low risk. I wanted them off the
monitor, so if they needed to be monitored, I just kind of listen and
wanted them moving and, you know, whatever they needed to do. And it
varied. I mean some, you know, it just depended, but again, it was a great
place. But what I learned was that Um, just women coming in that door and
taking their own clothes off and putting on this hospital gown.
Was a method of relinquishing their power. And I believe very deeply that
women, all women should give birth wherever they feel most comfortable. I
don't feel there's any right or wrong. And if the culture has taught, and
I believe it is a cultural thing that you know like birth that a hospital
is the best place to have a birth, that's where they better be because if
they're not, they're going to go against what they believe and it's it's
you know so you gotta follow your heart. You gotta, you gotta be you gotta
be honest of mind and sincere of heart, right? Um. And know where you are
in it. So anyway, I'm, I'm really digressing. So I, I learned in in
working through there that I really didn't want uh even a hospital, I mean
even a birth there and I knew all the midwives and all the nurses and it
was, I mean, I could have exactly what I wanted. But I really wanted to be
at home and my husband, who didn't really think about this, he's like, no
way. Of course he came from a very conservative family and had a very
different background and was very much, I'm more alternative. I want to do
everything naturally and herbally and he is very much like throwing
antibiotic at everything, you know, it's like, you know, vegan raw. met Mr.
Hostess Twinkie eating meat guy, right? I mean, we were polarity and he
was really like, no way, it's too dangerous. And so I was like, OK, I have
this beautiful community. I can give birth there, you know, it's like it
won't be what I exactly what I want, but he'll be comfortable and we need
both of us to be comfortable. So. Um, so I decided to go into the hospital
until we went into some birthing classes in, you know, the last trimester
, and it was the midwife who was, I knew her through the community, very
good. She wrote a book. Her name's Pam England. She wrote birthing from
within. Beautiful, beautiful book and beautiful midwife and through the
discussions she was saying, you know, she's showing the risks of birth at
home versus and he's like, is this right? I'm like, yes, it is right. And
so what I didn't realize is that, you know, when you had a really hard day
and you came home and you would vent on basically the train wrecks, that's
pretty much all he was hearing. About birth. And so then we had to have
the conversation, well, how much of that train wreck had to do with the
fact that they were in the hospital and having to be monitored and you
know, in this, you know, it's like there's, I mean that's not the only
piece, but we really got into deep discussion and he came totally full
circle and said, OK, let's do a home birth. So I said, OK, great. So um
yeah, so we had, um, it was Pam who was the midwife and
Um, she had two of us in labor at the exact same time and we were about 45
minutes away drive time. So in early labor, she kind of went back and
forth, you know, as we were, my water broke. I don't remember some time in
the day and I still wasn't in labor at night. And I remember we went to
see this awful movie and I thought that's that was why did I do that, but
I did it just to get in my mind, just a mindless movie, but it was so bad
. I was like this is like counterproductive, that's for sure. Um, anyway,
so we went home and it was, you know, the sun had gone down. This is
September and I thought, well, we should probably get things going because
I think at that point it had been almost 12 hours since my water broke.
And so I started doing nipple stem to get things going and the other girl
kind of had very similar story, same thing, and started doing nipple stem
we went into labor and got into active labor about the same time. And um
she had an apprentice, so. Um, I think I, I mean, started a good labor
around 10 that night and. Um, I think by about 2. realized that we were
both kind of neck and neck and so the apprentice came to my house and then
I had birthing midwives. One was coming to, I mean I had friends that were
midwives and one was coming to take photos and so she was going to be
there so I was like I've got, you know, it's like it makes sense for them
to come here and you stay there. Well, that was the decision that was made.
I was in labor, you know, I was like. Um, but I do remember peripherally
trying being somewhere part of that, like, yeah, just have Vicky come and
we're good. Um, yeah, so I. I um. Did pretty well and then you know,
transition, it's always like, whoa. Whoa, whoa, OK, yeah, I don't know
that I can do this anymore, you know that that moment of. Wow, this is, I
mean, it's all powerful, um, where you really have to kind of dig in and
then um maybe through that and started pushing, which actually for me was
even more intense than transition because I kept getting rectal spasms.
Every time I have a contraction, my rectum would seize and I'd had these
, I had an irritable bowel when I was in college and so I'd had this
happen before and it's pretty incapacitating so I had that going on along
with the labor every time and I thought. I don't know, you know, it's like
, you know, first babies take a while, and I knew I'd been doing it for a
while and I finally was like I don't know how much longer I can do this. I
really don't. And Um,
And actually I. Trying to think back. No, no, when I was in transition and
it got really bad. I was like I don't know how much I can take of it that
at that point, and I asked him to check him and they said you're basically
complete, so I'm like, OK. I can do this. It's like, you know, you can see
the light at the end of the tunnel and then the spasm started and then I
did that for a couple of hours and thought, OK, I don't know if I can do
this any much longer. And that I voiced internally. I didn't actually say.
Um,
But as you know, it's like you can see, you know, as you start to make
progress and the baby starts to move down and then you can actually see. I
remember holding a mirror there so I could see, you know, the process, um
, which just, you know, told me it's it's not gonna last forever because
you just get in that space where all time is, you know, it's like there's
no time. And um and like a lot of women, you see, you know, you go back to
your coaching, you just take it one at a time. You don't think about the
next 20 just the next one and rest until then, you know, it's like it's
just one at a time. So, made it through, um. And when she was born, I
remember there was just such a sense of relief, you know, that the pain
had stopped. And I, I remember them just scooping down and, you know,
handing her to me. And there's this picture of me holding her at that
moment with this big smile on my face, but. I wasn't I was, I, my feeling
honestly was I don't think I was quite ready to hold her. I was just so
relieved to not be in so much pain. You know, I just needed a moment to
kind of come back into my I don't know what it was, but, um, but I
remember looking at that picture and that big smile I'm like, that was
just relief. I thought I made it through it. That's all. It wasn't that I
was so happy to be holding this baby, not yet, you know, that came, you
know, in 10 minutes, but I just need a minute. um. Let's see, so interrupt
to ask some details, so. Um, I, I also want you to talk about the being
pregnant part, you know, were you working? Were you, you know, how were
you handling the actual pregnancy part? And then, um, to bring it back to
the birth experience, you know, um, what sort of coping mechanisms did you
use? You know, Did you done, you know, Lamas or hypno birthing or any of
that type of stuff, or was it just based on, you know, your inner strength
, that kind of a question, and then. Um, the positionings, you know, being
able to move around, that kind of stuff. OK. All right. Um, so the first
question, which I've already the pregnancy. So I had a very uneventful
pregnancy, very healthy, um. I gained like I think 3035 pounds very. I
love to eat, um, so I gained a lot. Like I remember my husband telling me
I really didn't eat much meat, but when I got pregnant, I wanted to eat it
every night. You know, I just wanted a steak every night. I remember him
looking at me and going, oh my gosh, now if your taste in movies would
change, you'd be perfect.
So, um, so I do remember, yeah, my diet changed, um, I didn't have much
morning sickness. I felt pretty much really tired in the beginning, um.
And then and then felt pretty good and worked until like you know 3 or 4
days before I um gave birth. I remember thinking I'll take a week off, you
know, babies are usually, you know, first babies usually a little later.
So yeah, I worked right to the very end and I did a lot of, I was training
someone. I was precepting a new nurse and so when she was in and she was,
you know, she got further along in my pregnancy, she was pretty much
independent. So I remember I'd sit in the corner of somebody else birthing
and just squat, you know, just train to be in that position. I'd sit
against the wall and just be in a squatting position, which really came to
serve me very well because it was the only position really I could
tolerate when I was pushing. And to hold yourself for 3 hours in that
position, you know, I pushed for 3 hours and it really, we tried all other
kinds of positions because I get so tired, but it always, it's like I need
to be squatting. I need to open things up as much as possible. It was not
an easy push um to get her out, you know, it's like I think the pelvis and
everything it kind of met its, um, you know, the passenger, the pelvis and
the push effort, and I was strong. I'm very physically strong, so. There
was no problem with the effort. It really was the, you know, her head and
the size of the pelvis. So, um, was she a big baby? No, she was like 84,
you know, but we're all different on the inside, um.
So, and what else about the pregnancy? Um, did you swell? Not too much,
you know, a little towards the very end. I mean, for an amount of time I
spent on my feet and walking and I remember a doctor. And I was like weeks
away from my due date, and he's like, you have got, I've just like bolt
out of a delivery to get something right, as if I didn't have this big
belly. He's like, you've got to slow down. You know, it's like it didn't,
there's no, I don't remember waddling. I don't remember. I just, you know
, it's like I just, yeah, it was pretty strong force. And so, and I never
did slow down. I didn't, but I did have to push against all those muscles
that have so much strength, you know, it's like I had strong muscles
pushing, but I also had strong muscles in my pelvic floor, um, that, yeah
, had to yield, right? It's like it's, it's both. You've got, you've got
to have power, but you also have to surrender. And so that first birth was
a big, yeah. A big surrender process. How did he, um, you know, how did he
perform? My husband, beautifully. I think he was traumatized by how long
it took, especially the pushing page because he, you know, it's like on TV
they push 3 times and they're done. And yeah, so it was that was hard on
him. Um, I remember in early labor, I had this image like I wanted these
candles everywhere. I it's like all of this and I was sitting on this big
birthing ball. And things were starting to kind of get more intense and I
was going into active labor and I was, and I, I remember I had to throw up
, you know, as I started, you know, like things were really starting to
move so I'm like I need to throw up and he went and got the garbage can
and then all of a sudden I'm like. These candles smell horrible. Would you
please, I like blow, get them out of here. So we went and blew out like
the 30 candles, not thinking that all the smoke coming up, right? So then
I'm like, get the smoke. I was like outside, put the candles outside. You
know, it's funny how it is one of those times where you can do nothing
extra and even just smelling something is an assault. It feels like an
assault on your system. Um, it's not, it's just one more thing that you,
you know, we're gonna. You're not the process to say that. It's so funny
because people were saying they thought they'd want a certain kind of
music and all this stuff and they're like, I couldn't have any other
sensory thing. Yes, yes. It's like just shut up and let me do what I need
to do. And even the midwives wanting to touch, it's like, Don't touch me.
Even at the very end when she was wanting to kind of rub my perineum and
I'm like, Don't touch me. And she went to like, you know, try to help with
the head like ease it out and I had an instant pain. I'm like, no, like
hands off, don't do it. It just was like my body knew the exact like
amount of pressure that it could handle. You know it was like everything
was just so fine tuned into what I what I could um what I could handle, I
guess you could say, or what I could meet. And anything extra, yeah, it
was that. It was just like too much, too much or put me over the edge
where I couldn't hold my space. And so then in preparing for labor, we did
the, I think it was a version of Lamas. And I do remember getting to a
point in labor going um. I was not breathing. And I think I was in the tub.
I was, I'd gotten in the, so things started to heat up and I and then I
got in the tub like I think I need to get in the tub and I could feel
everything just relax, like oh the weight off me. And then the
contractions just came like a vengeance, just like. You know it was a
surrender. The water allowed me to surrender a bit, so then the labor just
came in like that's what we needed, like this is it. So then it came so
fast I literally stopped breathing and I remember thinking, you know what
we talked about in class, like, oh yeah, you've got to keep breathing. And
so I brought in the breath um just as a method to, well, it was just I was
really to keep breathing, you know, it's like it's so intense you just
stop everything. Um, and I don't know that. I think I, it does help, it
did help, um.
You know, yeah, yeah, it did help and that, well, it's good keep oxygen
flowing. Right, yes. And it also that movement um is is a is a yielding in
itself, you know, it's not a seasoning. It is a movement, it's being a
flow. Um, so yeah, I think those are the two. We didn't have a birth tub
for her, um, ended up giving birth squatting in the bedroom. With the
mirror, I remember the mirror and the light. I want to see, um.
Yeah. So, um, you're gonna not be able to play with that, by the way, you
need to take a drink, take a drink. Thank you. Um, so did you, so after
you had that minute, obviously they put her on your chest, but then I
assume they, you know, took her away and cleaned her off or did whatnot.
Did they, did you start nursing or so tell me about that afterwards. So
she, they handed to me to her immediately and I was squatting, so I um.
Yeah, I just took her into my arms and things settled down and they put a
chucks under me or I already had a chucks on me and I just kind of leaned
against the bed and got out of that squatting position, which was a relief
because it, yeah, it was, I'd been there for quite a while, um. And I just
held her for a while, um, and yeah, did put her to breast, um. You know,
it's like within 10 or 15 minutes when she was starting to show she was
ready, you know, and starting to root around and had no problems latching
on and um was a great eater from the get-go. Um,
One of the struggles postpartum if you do postpartum. I, I ended up
getting, I ended up having um postpartum depression. And it was all
actually centering around nursing issues, breastfeeding. I um I knew I was
going back to work at 3 months and the midwives were like, you know, some
kit babies really have a hard time with this nipple confusion. You know
you're going back to work, that when you introduce a nipple really early,
um. They tend to go back and forth easier, you know, they can, and what
actually happened was. She took the bottle really easily and then she
didn't want to breastfeed and then she didn't want to breastfeed. And so
then my milk and there was a it was a combination of factors. It was
introducing the bottle and we did it at night. So when my milk production
was the lowest, we'd give her the bottle at night, but then she'd sleep
all night long. She had her stomach full, so then I get completely
engorged, right, which is not the right thing when you're trying to
develop a milk supply. So then she'd do OK during the day, you know, but
the more she had the bottle, the more she would fuss and um with the
breast. And so I ended up my milk production took a tank and it was also
compounded by a trip. My brother got married in California, so I'm
traveling with her at 3 weeks old. Um, you know, it's like, and you want
to go and I just didn't honor that I should have stayed home and just been
with her, but you know it is what it is. Um, so I ended up having to use
the SMS or I can't remember what it was, but it was a little tube that you
put on your breast to try to stimulate the milk supply. It was just became
this big, like huge fiasco. She was such a great feeder and it, I just
really created just this big mess and over it really then the formula
started to get her constipated, so then she had all kinds of gut issues
that it just was like kind of one thing after the other until I found
myself crying all day. And I went, I know I went into a for a postpartum
appointment, I think when she was like 4 months old and I just started
crying. He's like, have you been crying a lot? I'm like, yeah, I've been
crying a lot and he's like, Are you depressed and you know, it's like you
never see it in yourself. Like, no, I don't think so, and actually I could
have been the 2nd month appointment. I don't remember. And But I was, I
was really depressed. I got to the point where I thought that both the
baby and my husband deserve better and I actually had a plan. Like I was
going to check out. I was really depressed. Like I was not thinking
rationally at all and
When she was about 4 or 6 months old, somewhere and then she started
eating food. And and then really didn't want a nurse, so I remember I'd
come home from work and try to latch her on the breast when she was
sleeping and she'd wake up and just be pissed. And at every step I just
get sadder and sadder and sadder. I wanted to breastfeed her and I just
felt so bad and we had all these gut issues and it's just like one thing
after the other and. And but she finally just like I, she finally stopped
and I can't remember if she was 4. I think she was 6 months old, but she
just was like, well not do it anymore. And that was about my lowest
emotionally where I was like I I I'm leaving. And her, she saved my life
by stopping because my hormones shifted in a huge way and I pulled out of
that postpartum depression very quickly and then could look back and go,
Oh my gosh, I was going to kill myself, you know. So yeah, I do believe
that there was a bigger process at play and she at a soul level knew
exactly what she needed to do to help me. And she did. And she did. Yeah.
Still hard. I still wanted her to. You know, have that milk and her gut
is messed up to this day. And again, you know, we all have things that
we're going to have to meet and this was part of a bigger plan, you know,
we think that we're just supposed to meet happiness and all these good
things and these gut issues that she is facing
that play out in many different ways in her life. are part of something
that she is to transform. You know, it's like I believe that she came with
that plan. She is, you know, it's like we're co-creating this process. She
was wanting that for her own growth and development. I was wanting the
postpartum depression experience for my own growth and development. It was
all part of a bigger scheme. Did they not have the pump available to you?
They did, but I didn't have much luck pumping. Um, yeah, I didn't get much
, I didn't have much luck, you know, expressing, even though I had plenty
of milk in there. Um, she, yeah, and I think it was just because at that
point I became so anxious about everything, so it was totally a stress
thing, you know, it's like everything became like And I have a pretty
strong stress response, you know, it's like it's yeah, and so I believe it
was actually my mental emotional that was further compounding, you know,
not being able to express the milk even though it was there and um. Yeah,
because she, she gained weight beautifully until we started the bottle,
you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a milk supply production and then then we
had all the cascade of events. But again, it's, it's part of the process,
you know, it's like you don't know what you're going to meet at any point
along the journey and it's always
How are you going to meet it, right? That's, that's, you know, it's like
life can be many things. How are you going to walk through it? How are you
going to respond? That's what we have control over. I didn't realize that
then. A few more decades of living life and figure some things out.
No, I think that you're absolutely right in that, you know, it's you know
how we, how we respond to difficult circumstances and challenges that
we're faced with that really, you know, show our character or build and
build our character, absolutely, yeah, yeah. So then, um, what was the age
gap between the first and the 2nd 2.5 years. So can you talk about the
conception? Was it planned or? Yeah, well, um. Let's see. Yes, both of
those two.
I think all 3 of well.
Yeah, we weren't actually.
Actively trying, but we weren't, you know, we were gonna have a bigger
family and so we weren't also actively trying to avoid it, so we're kind
of like, you know. Um, allowing it to be what it, you know, when it was
going to be. And so I don't remember like with our first I was like, OK,
we're gonna start now. And the first month I didn't get pregnant and I
just fell apart and my husband was like, oh my gosh, this is gonna be a
long process, right? And then the second month I got pregnant, so it
wasn't, um, it wasn't hard, and I think Eller was like that too. I mean,
we just decided not to be, you know.
Not to be using anything and. You know, a month later I'm pregnant kind of
thing so. Um, So yeah, I don't remember exactly it wasn't planned like the
first. It was just kind of like it's, you know, around the time that we
might start thinking about another one. And you were still working as a
midwife or a labor delivery nurse, um, yes, and.
At that I had. I had actually stepped out. It was during my pregnancy with
Ellery that I stopped working in labor and delivery. At that point, I was
working like a weekend, every other weekend, and it had become so few days
that I remember thinking, you know, if I have to like go to the ER for a
crash C-section, I'm like I haven't had been in the ER in like 8 months,
you know, like I'm losing my skills because I'm not, you know, working
very much. And plus I I barely went to, I just didn't, you know, it's like
I didn't go to the ER a lot with the people that I was with. It just
wasn't, you know, they were like, OK, let's put Peg on this so she can get
in the ER. And then I get in the room and everything was switch and.
They'd give birth vaginally. So that and that we were having another baby
, and I decided we decided that I was just going to stop and I did
something called legal nurse consulting, so I was doing that at home when
I was pregnant with Ellery. So I'd stopped somewhere in that range from
working at least in the hospital and was doing just paperwork kind of
stuff at home. And Um, yeah, and her pregnancy was um.
Very different, very different, where I carried her really low, I remember
, and every once in a while, the lowness of her in my pelvis, I would hit
some sort of nerve in my lower pelvis and it would literally just drop me
to the floor like I have to like squat down and open my leg. Because it
was just this like lightning, like, I don't know how to explain it, but it
was intense and I remember like I'd be in the grocery store and it might,
and it would happen and people would come running like, no, I'm really OK
. I just needed to get down for a minute and open whatever it was because
she was so low, um. But the pregnancy was good, um, but what I had a lot
of fears about was the birth. I was like, gosh, if it's like the first one.
I like, I don't know if I wanna do it again, you know, it's just like, oh
, that just had like I I I I probably a version of PTSD. It was so intense
and. Um, so I actually in that pregnancy, I developed a backup plan. I
developed, so I had a midwife that would work at a hospital and I knew
that if I got to a certain point like I was, I was going in for. Demerol,
an epidural something, right? Like I didn't want to do that again. And I
remember actually when I went back to work after I'd given birth in my
first, I was always the the nurse that was like, you know, they'd come in
saying I want a natural birth. I'm like, I will help you. I will do
whatever, you know, it's like I can help you get through this. And and I
was you know it's like I, I, I had been given a gift. I was very good at
being with women in birth and helping them get through it. Um, but after I
had the my first birth, as soon as they're like, I think I want an
epidural, I'd be like, OK.
Let me call the anesthesiologist. We're right on that. So it shifted how I
walked in birth for a little while until I. You know, it's like you learn
and then you look at yourself like, OK, how much of this is me and what do
they really want? And so then I'd shift it and I'd say, How about let's
just get you through 3 or 4 more contractions, you know, just take it a
little bit more in time, just be in time and see how they respond. And if
they're really still wanting it, I wouldn't be so like before the birth,
I'd be like, No, you can really do it and talk them back into it. um. I
tried to meet them where they were more, you know, and honor what they
really wanted to do, um. Yeah. Um, So back to Ellery, so I was afraid. I
was really afraid of birth the second time. And yeah, set up, so I was
seeing a home birth for all my visits, but I made appointments with a
hospital midwife so that I knew I had a backup so I could go in if I
needed to and wanted to. And Um, the pregnancy was again uneventful other
than that little shock in my pelvis in the last trimester. Um, yeah, I
felt good and I had very healthy pregnancies.
And yeah, you knew the sex. Um, no, with Aaron, we didn't know the sex and
with Ellery.
We did find out, right? I had a friend that worked in ultrasound. And we
went just to, you know, to go see real quick. I didn't want to do early
ultrasounds. I really, but I was like, yeah, let's let's, so it's just my
husband and I that knew, um, that it was going to be a girl and it was
like in the thirty-ninth week of pregnant, you know, 38th week. It was
right before she was born. um, and I think that's right. I lose track of
things, but I don't think we told anybody. I think we kept it to ourselves.
You probably got a really good view of what she was going to look like.
Yeah, it was sweet, though we didn't have a 3D back then, but it was,
yeah, it was fun to see her. Um, And then Um, Yeah, so her birth. I
remember it started in the evening and it was so easy. It was just this
like super light contractions. Actually I woke up with it. That's what it
was. I had gone to bed and I woke up with this like, oh, I'm having a
contraction. And I thought, hm, then I lay there for another little bit
and it'd be a couple easy ones and I'd be like, and then be a little bit
harder I that. Well, it's too hard for me to sleep, so I, I told I said,
you know, honey, I might be in early labor, keep sleeping, you know, it's
like 10 o'clock at night. I'm like, one of us should get, I don't need you
right now. Go to go back to sleep. So I remember I cleaned the house like.
Spotless, everything was like, so I cleaned from like 10. To like 54 or 5
, 4:30 or 5, and it was the same thing. I like have a good contraction
then I have like three easy ones. It was so easy and I thought, boy, it's
gonna take a while at this rate, right? And so I just kept cleaning the
house. I'm like, why not? I can't sleep, might as well do something. So
the house got totally clean and they finally got to the point where I was
having, once when I have a really strong one. I thought, well, maybe we
should. Let the midwife know. So I woke up my husband, I said, you know,
honey, every once in a while it's really intense. I think we should call
the midwife and just give her a heads up and I think I'd like to have you
with me. And, and then I have a couple not so hard ones. I'm like, I don't
know, maybe we shouldn't call the midwife. And then it would hit me again
and be hard again. And um it was only literally in the last like, I had
like 3 really hard ones in a row that kind of were like transition but I
they just proceeded by light ones, so I was like, OK, they were really
intense, but now it's OK again, but. You know, I don't know. I just don't
, you know, it's like you don't know, so I'm like maybe call her to come.
And maybe I'll get in the in the in the tub. So we had a birth tub, a
really big nice one for this birth. It was so, it was foam. It was like 4
ft deep, so it was just the right height that you could totally sit and
submerge up to your neck and stand on your, you know, be on your hands and
knees. It's like the perfect height and it was huge. It's like I could
totally stretch it out completely. It was so nice. My husband could have
gotten in, but he didn't with that one. He held me from the edge, but I
just felt like I was in this womb of water and it was only at the end
because I didn't want to get in because I was afraid I'd stop it. You know
, it had been so off and on. I was like, I, I don't want to stop
everything, you know, so I'm like, I better wait. And then I had those
three hard like I could call the midwife and I think I'm gonna get in the
tub now. And I got in and again that huge relaxation and then. Here it
came, super hard and nonstop, the midwife came in, I don't know, not very
long before. I mean, probably right when I start pushing, um. And she only
lived like 15 minutes away, 1520 minutes away. And Um, I just remember
telling her, I'm so afraid of this being like the first one with the
rectal spasms. I'm so afraid, and I remember this, she just had such
beautiful counsel. She said, Peg, this is a different birth. And she's
like, was this was her was her birth up to this point different? I'm like
, yeah. She said, Has your water broke? No. I know she was just pointing
out the obvious like this is a completely different birth and that you can
create space for it to be something, it doesn't have to be what it was,
right? And to let that go, that trauma from the first. And
Her bag of waters ended up breaking as her head was coming out. Um, it was
pretty intact to the very end. And I remember she came out and we brought
her up on my belly and she was very, she had a very short cord, which I
didn't know. I just remember trying to bring her up a little harder,
higher and get her head above the water and and it would just be like, ow
, something is really hurting, you know, because it was the cord kind of
pulling up on me. And then we finally got to this middle space where my
husband had to hold her little chin up, so her head was above the water,
but she was actually born under the water. She was born on the water and
they brought her up, you know, right away. Um. And so being in the water.
Or before I just was in modern labor the first time and then the second
birth obviously and the water not having broken. I mean it was like night
and day the birth, and the second baby had already and she was smaller,
she was 714, so not a lot smaller, but Apparently enough to make, you know
, a difference, and by far it was my easiest birth and I remember so much
as soon as she came out, I looked at one of the midwives, I said. Now I
could do that again, you know, it was like it wasn't the first experience
like I thought, and it was just like, and I feel like that was one of her
gifts, you know, I feel like, you know, the spasms that I was having
earlier in pregnancy was almost like a preamble, you know, I did some of
the work there um for labor, you know, in a way, um, and that, yeah, and
who she is as a being, you know, it's like she's gonna make it. She's not
gonna make it hard, you know, it's like she, as a soul, she would try to
make it as easy as possible, and she did, you know, that and that again
that co-creative process we're in it together. And she healed my trauma
from not being able to nurse that girl, all she wanted to do was nurse all
the time. And I remember trying to wean her so many times. She was like 2
1/2 when I finally weaned her. And at the time, I mean it was nice because
it did heal a lot of the wounds that I had created with the first or had
um with not being able to nurse and just having it be so successful and
she was very allergic. Um, as soon as my milk came in, she started
bleeding. And we didn't know if it was vaginally or recttal because you
know how they can have the hormonal shift. It was definitely rectal and
found out that she was severely allergic to any dairy, so I had to
completely cut all dairy out and if I like went to a restaurant and didn't
know it and they put a little bit of butter in, she would like sleep for
two days and bleed. So she was very, very sensitive, um, so. Um, so change
my diet for that, but again, like the nursing was just. It just was such a
blessing, you know, to have that experience after the first and um just to
get to enjoy it so much and then she enjoyed it so much. And then with her
having these sensitivities, it was probably good that she had that and she
was resisting being weaned because she knew the state of her gut, I
believe. It's like she knew that it wasn't the right time and that she
needed more of um. Now anthroposophically, we looked at things a little
different than about a year is a good time to wean because as soon as the
baby stands upright into their into their eye, um. That it's time to wean
away from the mom's, you know, it's time for them to stand and when
they're constantly drinking the mom's milk, it's full of the mom's ego and
the mom's eye, um, but you can also look at it as risk benefit and balance
that she had a significant gut issue and that it had a healing um piece to
it. And I remember I went away on a trip and I thought, OK, I'm gonna be
gone for the weekend when I come back, surely. And she was old enough at 2
1/2. I mean, she was, she was bargaining. She'd be like, Mom, mommy, my
milk, and I'd be like, no, honey, you know, it's like we're gonna have
this kind of milk and she's like, please. I'm like, no honey, she's like.
Just one side. I remember her like really bargaining to me. I'm like,
honey, no, and she's just teeny teeny tiny bit one side like oh the girl,
she's a very great negotiator, let me tell you. So, um,
So I think yeah, it was about 215 and she probably looking back, her gut
really started to um. At 3 that some big shifts were made, like she
actually developed a few other food allergies in that time that we had to
pull away. I remember strawberries and a few other things that came up
after weaning um that might have, but we just, you know, it's like she's
good and it's her process too, right? Does she still have dairy issues now
? Yeah, kind of, um, not, not nearly as much, um, but yeah, she has a
sensitivity there.
Yeah, it's something that she can. She doesn't drink milk, that might not
be very comfortable, but like high fat butter and that kind of stuff is OK
, but when we, we did test her at some point, she had allergies to. The
case in the way, like 3 properties of milk. Um, so it was, yeah. But her
gut, you know, she's an adult now, so it's probably just a mild, yeah,
it's not a true allergy kind of thing anymore. That was a really beautiful
story. Yeah, it was really great, um. Yeah, it's that was, it was just
like such a nice pairing, you know, and the changes that happened from the
first birth to the second. Yeah, and the healing and the new awarenesses
and. Yeah, and that we walk together as souls, you know, how to help each
other. Yeah. That's a condition. Maybe keep that for the end. Um, so then
was the third one different? Yes, all three of them were different. So I
want to tell you that one of the things that we did that um I'd like to
pull in cause it was just such a beautiful practice, um, one was we did
belly casts, um, and with Ellery, I got invited to a blessing way. Um,
which was organized by Pam England, the midwife, and very ceremonial. Um,
we went out at dawn, and the morning it was a very cool morning in the
fall. It was cold, it was frosty. And Um, we went out and. Uh what
succession, I guess that's not the right word, but um we had drums. There
was drumming and there were women that were going to be with us breathing
women, and then there are the midwives and there were other people just
you know, assistants, all women though, and we went out and made a big
circle in this field and you know she asks, Are you willing to go into the
unknown? And so those of us that were pregnant and Being blessed, had no
idea what was going to happen. Everybody else did, and she basically, I
mean there were prayers and ceremony and song, and then it basically
created these stations, so each of the women in the circle were a station
that you were to go to and so it just took just one at a time you went to
the station and something that you didn't know was coming would happened.
So what it ended up being at the end was that we were completely naked.
With painting like on ourselves, um. And there it's like that was a big
thing like I remember like this, you know, like um not knowing what was
coming and just having to take what it was and then um being prepared like
kind of as a warrior, you know, to go into that space and be given power.
And then at the end I remember she got up on this ladder and took this
huge vessel, big round, you know, she could barely get up the stairs. It
was so heavy up this up the ladder, it was so vessel, and she took it to
the top and ceremoniously held it out and dropped it and it just.
Again, you know, just as a symbol of that transformative peace that comes
with the birth and that you're not the same as the way you were before.
Before I talk about another thing is that I do remember. After my first
birth and after I did it. That was my first thought, like, first, the pain
was over and the second was I did it. And that moment of empowerment. I'd
never experienced anything like that before, you know, like, wow, I mean,
I'm the only one who knows what that was like to me.
And and so it was my power, it was my knowing, it was my experience of wow
, if I can do that, what can I not do? Right? What can I not do? So one of
the other things that the midwives, um, my first my first birth, Pam, she
said, think of a little song, Peg, that you can sing to the baby now. And
that when she's born, she can, you can use it to soothe her, which was
good because she was so colicky with all the gut issues. She was just so,
she just had such a hard little baby childhood, her young 3 to 6 months
until she started eating food. We gave her food, she was so much happier,
like get off the milk and she was like, oh, thank goodness. Um, so we sang
, for her, I picked a song. Um, out of a book, I used to be an early
childhood educator and it went like this. It was um. I love you forever. I
like you for always, as long as I'm living your mommy, I'll be. And then
the second birth with the pregnancy, that she told me that at the very end.
So I just kind of quickly I'm like, OK, I'm going to do this one. This
sounds pretty good. So with Ellay, I started thinking about it. I was like
, oh yeah, I'd like to think about this song and a song came. It actually
came off of one of the Uh, I don't know where it came. I just turned on
one of the kids. I don't know where it was, but it came to me and it, it
went like this, um.
Was
Let's see
The I saw you. I want to hold you and keep you warm on a cold gray morning.
The I held you. I wanted to kiss you. Oh, brings it up for me and well
come you here on the day you were born. So she ended up being born on a
cold winter's morn, like as the sun was coming up at like 7:45 and it was
so cold. And the song came way before even, you know, it's like it just it
was just so reflective of exactly the process that took place. And then my
sons. Um, that one just came to again, you know, it's like the older I get
, the more I realize that if you just pay attention. Everything comes,
that you don't have to force it. You don't have to. Everything that you,
yeah, it will be there and it will show up for you. You know, it's like
the universe, you know, that whole thing in the universe provides. It does.
You just have to be observant and watch for it to show up because it'll
always be given. So this was another song, same thing. Um, and it was. Um
, Wherever you rest your head tonight. We are all one family. Let's hold
tight and fill the world with dreams of harmony
tonight. And he was born in the evening. And it was a song that, you know
, because at that point, I, you know, it's like I didn't think we'd have
another, you know, it's like our family was complete, um, in a microcosm
and also in a, you know, bigger microcosm.
So to his birth, you know, um, or pregnancy, I'll start with that. So I
knew pretty early he was a boy. Because I smelled like a boy, like when I
go to the bathroom and I'd wipe, I'm like, I smell like.
Musty, you know, like just like. Like I was wiping my husband's perineum
instead of mine.
And so I, you know, I was like this is very different than the girls. And
the girl's pregnancy were very different. Erin I carried very high. Ellery
I carried very low. And so I actually thought for a while that Ellery
would be a boy just because of the difference in pregnancy. And then when
I had with the third pregnancy and I had that smell, I'm like, this is
definitely a boy, honey. Like there's no question about it. Um, And I
remember when I, so with him, like I was really thinking I wanted another
baby and my husband like, yeah, maybe. And but we again weren't like
actively. Trying to prevent it and I remember taking the pregnancy test
and he wasn't there and I decided I want to try to figure out how to tell
him and so he used to come home every day for lunch and I made a salad
with an egg, a hard boiled egg, and we had some sprouts. And so I put the
sprout, like one sprout, right on the top of the egg to represent the
sperm and the egg to represent the egg and then made like a very phallic,
like a carrot and or cucumber with two other round things to make it look
like a penis, you know, ejaculating and. So he sits down to lunch and he's
like one sprout on the egg, you know, he's like totally clueless as to
this landscape that I've laid out in front of him. I like, so honey, do
you know anything about your lunch? He's like, yeah, there's a sprout on
the egg. I'm like. Anything else about he's like, well, it looks a little
phallic.
And I just pretty much had to lead them all along and I was like, does
this mean something? I'm like, yes, it does. And I don't remember exact
words, but he he did clue in eventually, um.
Um, yeah, so, and it was another symbol, you know, it's like I'd put in
the boy parts right there on the plate. That was actually probably even
before I. Um, had the smell, you know, that was like, you know, you like 3
weeks pregnant or something, um. And
Yeah, anyway, interesting how symbols come up like that, you know how you
don't even think about it, you know, unconscious things. And let's see, so
I was at that point just a stay at home mom and our. My oldest daughter
was getting ready to start school, so I remember I was investigating
schools and I wanted to do Waldorf education. The only one was in Santa Fe
, and so it's a lot on my mind with that pregnancy and where she was going
to go to school or how it was gonna look if it's gonna home school and um
because Phillip was going to be born about 6 weeks before her school year
would start. And um with the 3rd pregnancy, You know, it's like you're
busy with the other two and you really don't give much thought to it. Like
I remember the first pregnancy, you know that saying like it'll be the
longest short time you've ever had, you know, this, this like it is a
short time, but it just seems like it goes forever waiting for that baby,
and the third pregnancy, it's just like, wow, I'm like. 7 months. How that
wait? I was just 2 months, you know, just a little while ago, um. So it
went really fast. I remember that. And I remember having a dream that I
was gonna give birth all by myself, and that it was gonna be really quick.
And Um,
And so I.
had read to the girls and we were laying down to take a nap and my eldest
daughter, she said, I hated it when you were pregnant and we had to lay
down and take a nap because I didn't want to take a nap and she was like 5
at the time, which, right, but she still actually did a lot better with a
nap, but you know, in hindsight, she was like, I hate to lay down. I was
like, I needed a nap. I needed to lay down so you're gonna lay down and
she don't fall asleep anyway. um. But I had laid down for a nap and had
fallen asleep and woke up and um my water had broken. So I was like, oh,
looks like it's gonna be sometime around today, and I dreamed it was on
the 4th of July and it was on the 3rd. It was the 3rd when my water broke
and in the afternoon so I thought, oh, we are gonna have a 4th of July
baby. And so, um, so yeah, I called my husband like, hey, honey, my water
broke and um. You know, so we're gonna have a baby here soon. I called the
midwife and told her just what was going on. I wasn't in labor at all and
then I let her know. And so We were getting ready for a big party the next
day at the house for 4th of July and. Um, And my husband was like, well,
what do you wanna do? You know, it's like, do you want to have the kids
here? Do you wanna, you and me go out to dinner? Do you want to cook? I'm
like, well I have to cook this potato salad for the big party tomorrow. So
I was like, I think I'm gonna put the potatoes on and the and the plant, I
remember it changed like 6 times, like maybe we'll go out, no, let's eat
here, and we'll go to the neighbors and eat and we finally settled that
we're gonna go out to eat and so he's like, well, let me go bring the kids
to. Grandma's, which is like literally a mile away, and I'm like, OK, I'll
go bring the potatoes to the neighbor and have her finish those up for us.
So I think I brought the potatoes to the neighbor and he brought kids. No
, I think no, he just, no, I went up to change, I think he brought one of
us brought the potatoes and the neighbor said, Hey, will you finish
boiling these and we'll get them later to finish the salad. I'm going to
take the kids and, you know, Peg's water broke and we're just gonna go to
dinner or something. So he took the potatoes, you got the kids, they got
in the car and he got about halfway to grandma's and I got about upstairs.
And Labor hit So hard I couldn't get from the bed to the telephone table
, which was over across the room from here to that wall, you know, 20 ft,
and he at that moment had the thought like, oh my gosh, I just left Peg
alone, and she's had this dream that she's giving birth all by herself.
And so And I'm like, I need to call Phil and tell him so he can call the
midwife. I could not move. There was no break in between. I was just like
one contraction after the other after the other, and I was just like, so I
started talking to the baby, and I was like, OK, I know you're in a hurry
, but I, you need to breathe and I need to breathe. And I was worried
about Anoxia, you know, it's like it was just this one constant
contraction, you know, I it's like I know too much, like, am I abrupting?
That was my thought, like, oh my gosh, this is what happens when somebody
abrupts. You know, one, it's just to get the baby out as fast as possible
because the placenta is ripping off and sometimes you know too much, you
know, I'm just like, but I couldn't move. I literally could not move from
the side of the bed. And Phil realizes what he's done. He's trying to call
now. I can't get to the phone. He turned, drops the kids off, turns around
, comes rip them back in the door. I'm like, honey, he's like, I already
called her, you know, like he already, I think if I remember, he already
knew her. I screamed immediately like, Call the midwife. And he came up
and um helped me. I think I was half dressed at that point and um he'd
already started to, I think, fill the birth tub. It's hard to, something
like that because I know that I got in the tub for a short period of time.
We called my friend who was going to take pictures. We called the midwife
and um she got there as his head was coming out um and I remember reaching
down to feel him and I felt what I thought was the cord, you know, and I
was a little traumatized by the. The rapidity of it, how fast it was. But
you know, I, I told you I had that conversation with him. I said, honey, I
was just talking to they were like, Baby, you got to slow things down here.
Neither of us can handle this. It's like it has to, we need a break. And
he did. I mean, it was after my husband came, but things did slow down a
little bit and I got a little break in between contractions. And so he
helped me get downstairs and into the birth tub, but yeah, the, the
photographer friend of mine who had just had a baby a couple of months ago
was like getting the towels ready because I was already, you know, I just
pretty much went into pushing and you know that stage of it just was fast
, so I think about an hour um for beginning to end. And um, yeah, midwife
came in and I'm like, I think it's a cord and she went and touch she's
like, no, it's his ear. I'm like, oh thank God.
And yeah, a couple pushes and. Uh, I don't remember. Yeah, I just, it was
intense. I remember it just it almost like trying to hold him in, you know
, just to slow it down like, oh my gosh, it's so fast. Did you tear? Um,
not too much. I tore a little bit with Aaron, um. And they didn't stitch
it, and if there, if there was anything with the other two, it was very
minor. It wasn't anything to, yeah. I think hardly so now again that. The
body is wise, you know, when you can feel and be, you know, and I mean
sometimes you just cause it's, you know, it's supposed to happen. I know
it is what it is, there's no right or wrong. Yeah, and he, um. I remember
when he came out and he, he looked just like my brother to me and feels
like he looks just like me, so it's interesting we had. And he still
looked at him he's like, he looks just like me. And We had agreed not to
ever name our children our name. And right there it's like it just came
he's like he looks just like me. Can we name him Philip? I was like, well
, I guess.
Sure, I thought we weren't gonna do that, but yeah, I mean, that's what
you really want to do, and you know it's kind of sweet. So we end up with
a very long name, Philip Zane, which stands for John, which is his family
name, and Patrick, which is my brother's name, Freisinger. So whew, that
is it. And it was cute because if you put the two initials in the middle,
it's Philip Zippy Freisinger, which is, you know, kind of reflective of
his birth. It was really fast, and he was the most easygoing. So in
anthroposcopy, we look at human beings. One of the ways we look at them is
in what's called a threefold way, and there are those people that we call
nerve scents that are very, they take in the world, they're very smart,
they walk really early as babies, um, they're very alert, but also, you
know, there can be issues with anxiety and um just because they, it's so,
they just see everything. They're not dreamy, they're here and that's very
much my first child. She's a nerve sense baby. And then Ellery. Uh, my
second girl, um, she'd be more what we call metabolic type, where those
people are babies are much more dreamy. Um, they spend a lot of time in
imagination. She had tons of imaginary friends, um. And they're more of a
creative force in the world. So the nerve sense types are the thinkers,
and the metabolic types are the doers. They have a will force and they're
very creative and very artistic and can walk in the world. So that was
Ellery and then the third one is the middle realm, the rhythmical um um
aspect of the being which reflects the heart and the lung, and it helps
keep balance between the thinking. And the will, the doing and the feeling
and the will. So, sorry, not the feeling, it is a feeling wrong. And my
son is very much that. He's very, I remember him just I told him and he
just kind of hang there, you know, it was just so like, he just, he put
him down anywhere, he'd lay around. I mean, typical third baby, right?
They're just, they're so easygoing and he'd take a nap anywhere. He never
had a schedule like my first had to have a schedule where she'd freak out.
Again that birth order thing, there's something to these characteristics
that come with birth order. um, but yeah, he and he nursed right to a year
, um, it was always easy. Everything was just so easy with him. He just,
yeah, it just. Just hung out, literally, you know, it's just like, all
right, this place is not so bad, you know. Yeah, so, um. Yeah, it was.
Yeah, really good.
Intense, but Good. Yeah, we normally ask, um, because we. We don't like to
categorize these stories as like C-section, home birth, you know, because
there's so much more nuanced than just those terrible categories and so um
and so we have we have 4 categories now we are themes we're calling them
and then more merge as we go on. So right now we have faith, connection.
What are we talking about, uh. Is the sensual sensory, that's what it is
, sensory and trauma. Um, and trauma doesn't mean just a terrible birth or
anything. It could mean a lot of things. But, um, and so we'll ask our
storytellers sometimes, can you think of a word or a phrasing of words
that kind of encapsulates or describes your birth experience, even though
you have three very different births. So using one of those four words, no
, so it could be anything, but that's that's partly why I asked because
with you, you know, transformation seems like such the term, but maybe
there's something else that where if you want to elaborate.
Um,
Yeah, I would say.
Uh, transformative growth maybe, or even transformative healing or
sequential healing even might be appropriate, um. Yeah, there's so many
ways that, see, I'm one of those, you know, people ask me, what's your
favorite? I don't have a favorite anything, you know, it's like I can
appreciate aspects of so many different things, and that's kind of when
you're asked to call upon one phrase. I'm like, Well, there's like 1000
phrases that I could put to this experience on so many levels. Well, yours
actually fits in all of those categories. That's the funny thing because
you're so connected, you know, with um. You know, with, with your body and
you know with the universe as cheese ball as that might sound, but you
know, seeing those signs and accepting the symbols and all of that and um
kind of just going with the flow and all of that and then of course the
traumatic aspects and the sensory aspects because you know, yeah, it's
very interesting. Yeah, um, and And that I mean. If I had to bring it to
one word, it would be initiation. You know, it really would be.
Um,
So
The transformative power of. The transformative
Transformation of self through the initiation of birth. Maybe something
like that. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah.
OK, actually, do you have any other questions?
OK. Do you wanna add anything else? No, I don't think so. OK, thank you.