WEBVTT 00:00:08.698 --> 00:00:10.698 Today is Tuesday, February 22 00:00:12.810 --> 00:00:18.506 2011. We are conducting an interview for the Arizona State University 00:00:18.539 --> 00:00:24.887 Retirees Association, the video history project. We are lo located at 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:32.226 French Friendship Village in Tempe. I am Ruth Luman, Professor Emeritus at 00:00:32.259 --> 00:00:37.335 the College of Nursing at Arizona State University. The technical support 00:00:37.368 --> 00:00:43.815 staff today is John mcintosh operating the camera and Dave Shatley Roger 00:00:43.848 --> 00:00:50.217 Car and Roger Carter. Also in attendance is Linda Vanscoy chair of the A 00:00:50.250 --> 00:00:57.326 sur a video history project. And would you please uh introduce yourself 00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:03.027 stating your name and your position at a SU, I'm Anne Hart and I'm a 00:01:03.060 --> 00:01:07.566 Professor Emeritus from the College of Education 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.596 to begin with. Let our viewers know a little bit about your early life. 00:01:11.629 --> 00:01:15.025 Like, where were you born and raised? 00:01:15.058 --> 00:01:19.257 I was born in Poland where my parents who were Americans were at the time 00:01:19.290 --> 00:01:27.245 , but I grew up in Texas and went to school in Texas. Um went for my 00:01:27.278 --> 00:01:31.816 undergraduate work at Southwester taught school there for a while. Then 00:01:31.849 --> 00:01:36.626 went off to the east where I took some coursework in various places with 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:41.555 my degree, a degree from Cornell, a Masters in Cornell and child 00:01:41.588 --> 00:01:47.275 development. And then down to the Washington DC area, finally, I went back 00:01:47.308 --> 00:01:52.897 to Texas to teach and got my doctorate at the University of Texas. 00:01:52.930 --> 00:01:58.926 Following that I taught for a year at Queen's College and I directed 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:04.397 elementary education at Earlham College in Indiana before arriving at 00:02:04.430 --> 00:02:08.896 Arizona State University. So you had some teaching jobs before you arrived 00:02:08.929 --> 00:02:13.376 at a su, is that right? That's right. I taught at the university level at 00:02:13.409 --> 00:02:18.656 Queens College in New York City and then at Earlham College. Uh and of 00:02:18.689 --> 00:02:21.967 course, I did some teaching. Well, I was working on my doctorate at the 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:28.186 University of Texas. Prior to that, I taught elementary school, uh first 00:02:28.219 --> 00:02:34.146 grade, uh second grade, third grade, fourth grade, I think I started at 00:02:34.179 --> 00:02:40.436 fourth and went on down what motivated you to, to uh move to a su 00:02:40.469 --> 00:02:44.755 there were several reasons of coming to Arizona State University. I did my 00:02:44.788 --> 00:02:49.376 doctorate with Doctor George Sancho at the University of Texas and he had 00:02:49.409 --> 00:02:55.906 been here as a visiting professor uh at in the College of Education and he 00:02:55.939 --> 00:02:59.835 encouraged me to come here. In the meantime, at one of the national 00:02:59.868 --> 00:03:03.555 conferences that I'd gone to when I was beginning to look around for jobs 00:03:03.588 --> 00:03:10.517 , I saw Sue Shafer who was at Arizona State University and she'd been my 00:03:10.550 --> 00:03:16.356 official buddy at Queens College who helped me get started at Queens and 00:03:16.389 --> 00:03:21.116 she and Bob Shafer had taken me around in New York that year. And she said 00:03:21.149 --> 00:03:28.005 , oh, don't go to those places, come to a su so I was full time in, in 00:03:28.038 --> 00:03:32.297 social foundations. However, it was a time when there was a lot of turmoil 00:03:32.330 --> 00:03:39.835 , they had just fired s Starsky and evidently some of the professors in my 00:03:39.868 --> 00:03:46.636 field had antagonized some of the legislature or others. And so they 00:03:46.669 --> 00:03:52.797 decided to do away with that department. And so instead they had us go 00:03:52.830 --> 00:03:58.085 half of us into secondary and half into elementary. But since my class 00:03:58.118 --> 00:04:02.775 work was often under the secondary or in the social foundations, I sort of 00:04:02.808 --> 00:04:07.356 straddled two departments for a long time before ending up in elementary 00:04:07.389 --> 00:04:14.305 ed. So what was a su like when you first arrived small compared to what it 00:04:14.338 --> 00:04:17.825 was like when I retired, you said you were born in Poland and then you 00:04:17.858 --> 00:04:21.865 moved to Texas. Tell us more about your childhood. My parents were 00:04:21.898 --> 00:04:26.666 Methodist missionaries. My first language was Polish to their astonishment 00:04:26.699 --> 00:04:31.825 , but I lost it when they told me when I came at the age of 3.5 to the 00:04:31.858 --> 00:04:36.486 United States that here everyone spoke English like mother and father did 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:44.519 . I was bilingual and I dropped my Polish and except an aunt told me that 00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:49.435 I once talked to my Polish doll in Polish and to my American doll in 00:04:49.468 --> 00:04:51.805 English. 00:04:51.838 --> 00:04:56.937 But uh and so I grew up in Texas where they returned to Texas. The 00:04:56.970 --> 00:05:01.236 depression hit and the church could not send them back to Poland, moved 00:05:01.269 --> 00:05:05.596 around as Methodist ministers are known to do, uh, from one place to 00:05:05.629 --> 00:05:10.906 another. Uh, I went, wanted to go to a school for four years for my 00:05:10.939 --> 00:05:15.387 college degree and not be moving around. So I ended up going to 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:22.395 Southwester University in Georgetown, Texas. And my mother insisted that 00:05:22.428 --> 00:05:28.036 as a woman in those days, I needed to take education classes for an 00:05:28.069 --> 00:05:33.757 insurance policy because you never knew when you might need it. So when I 00:05:33.790 --> 00:05:40.736 graduated from Southwester, I in January, I thought I had a job because I 00:05:40.769 --> 00:05:46.887 was an English major teaching in San Antonio in the high school. But this 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.926 was January and they transferred teachers around according to those who 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:58.325 graduated and dropped out and the only job available was agriculture. So I 00:05:58.358 --> 00:06:03.426 then started applying a substitute taught, I applied to Corpus Christi 00:06:03.459 --> 00:06:08.627 where I heard that they were opening up a junior high. But instead of the 00:06:08.660 --> 00:06:14.276 junior high, they said to me, why don't you come down and teach in a new 00:06:14.309 --> 00:06:19.036 elementary school? We're opening up 00:06:19.069 --> 00:06:24.447 that summer. I went off to New York City to work. It was what was called a 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:28.926 work camp, as I mentioned earlier. And it was in the, I worked in the area 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:34.176 in Brooklyn where Murder Incorporated had been broken up and I enjoyed 00:06:34.209 --> 00:06:40.067 working with the Children there. But one of the things I learned was they 00:06:40.100 --> 00:06:44.467 could go home if they didn't like what I was doing and I had to learn to 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:50.055 work with them and teach them and lead them and keep them there where they 00:06:50.088 --> 00:06:54.325 would be happy to stay. I think that did more for me in learning how to 00:06:54.358 --> 00:07:02.358 teach than any other thing. After being in New York, I taught school uh in 00:07:02.709 --> 00:07:09.217 Corpus Christi is a and then I taught school. Uh after leaving Corpus, I 00:07:09.250 --> 00:07:14.596 went to Hartford Seminary hoping to do some work maybe as a Methodist 00:07:14.629 --> 00:07:19.336 missionary like my parents in social work, but they didn't have a program 00:07:19.369 --> 00:07:25.736 . I took a religious education class and the teacher sent us out on, on 00:07:25.769 --> 00:07:33.507 field trips. I walked into a classroom and said this is where I belong. 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:38.866 But I was still anti education. I had said earlier, I would never be a 00:07:38.899 --> 00:07:43.937 teacher. So I'd taken just the minimum of education classes. I was still 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:48.745 anti education. So I went to Cornell University and got my masters in 00:07:48.778 --> 00:07:53.947 child development. Then I went down and taught in the Washington DC area, 00:07:53.980 --> 00:07:58.836 Arlington, Virginia and Montgomery County, Maryland took some work there. 00:07:58.869 --> 00:08:04.887 And then I went to Mexico, as I mentioned earlier. Unfortunately, there 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:09.036 was a young girl who arrived, who was ill and I sort of helped take care 00:08:09.069 --> 00:08:13.645 of her at the house where we were staying in Mexico City during that time 00:08:13.678 --> 00:08:18.687 and it was hepatitis. And before long, I was in the hospital in Mexico 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:25.197 city. My insurance policy would pay for Mexico City, which was about $4 a 00:08:25.230 --> 00:08:29.325 day in the hospital, but it wouldn't pay for it in the, in the United 00:08:29.358 --> 00:08:34.145 States. So I did my hos stayed in the hospital in Mexico City and then 00:08:34.178 --> 00:08:37.746 came back to Texas. 00:08:37.779 --> 00:08:43.427 Eventually, the doctor said I could go back to work provided that I did 00:08:43.460 --> 00:08:51.157 not try to teach for another few months. That was the hardest job around. 00:08:51.190 --> 00:08:56.736 So I went off back to Washington DC and I worked for the Quakers Friends 00:08:56.769 --> 00:09:00.907 Committee on National Legislation. During the time that I'd been in New 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:06.885 Washington, I had looked for a church that would make me feel comfortable. 00:09:06.918 --> 00:09:11.946 And I tried various ones. Some were Methodist, some were Presbyterian, 00:09:11.979 --> 00:09:17.576 some were Unitarian. I tried various ones. I was really looking for some 00:09:17.609 --> 00:09:21.826 place that was also interested in peace and I wanted to go on another work 00:09:21.859 --> 00:09:26.005 camp with it or go on my first work camp with the American Friends Service 00:09:26.038 --> 00:09:31.586 Committee and I didn't have the address. So I went to the Quaker meeting 00:09:31.619 --> 00:09:36.135 to get the address and I never left. 00:09:36.168 --> 00:09:41.236 It did fit me. It was what I wanted. So I became a Quaker when I went on 00:09:41.269 --> 00:09:46.246 that work camp. As I mentioned earlier to Holland, none of us in our group 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.025 were Quaker. I don't know whether any of the others became Quaker. It was 00:09:50.058 --> 00:09:54.657 several years before I decided I could be a Quaker So I've been a Quaker 00:09:54.690 --> 00:09:58.255 ever since 00:09:58.288 --> 00:10:03.096 you were talking about the progress you made in your career. Tell us about 00:10:03.129 --> 00:10:07.686 the kinds of courses you taught. Were you teaching uh undergraduate, 00:10:07.719 --> 00:10:13.736 graduate or both? Both? I taught both. I taught in uh social foundations 00:10:13.769 --> 00:10:19.635 of education. I taught undergraduates uh uh in issues of education and 00:10:19.668 --> 00:10:24.956 then a class called school and society in the areas of curriculum. I 00:10:24.989 --> 00:10:30.135 sometime I taught some classes in multi well undergraduate multicultural 00:10:30.168 --> 00:10:34.836 education. But that ended up my, in my work with people who are going into 00:10:34.869 --> 00:10:39.635 bilingual education or English as a second language. I taught some of 00:10:39.668 --> 00:10:44.015 those classes even over on the West side where many of the students uh 00:10:44.048 --> 00:10:48.996 were teaching uh bilingual or English as a second language. I developed a 00:10:49.029 --> 00:10:53.797 class on peace studies and education. My last class of teaching which was 00:10:53.830 --> 00:11:00.119 again a graduate class was cooper operation and conflict in the classroom. 00:11:01.869 --> 00:11:03.869 Any of your graduate students uh do research on on peace or conflict, 00:11:06.928 --> 00:11:12.047 which was your your topic? Yes, I did have one student in particular that 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:16.677 I remember very closely who worked on her doctorate, I think was more 00:11:16.710 --> 00:11:20.476 under Nelson Hager said, but I was the one who was, she was working 00:11:20.509 --> 00:11:27.316 closely with and she came from Edmonton Canada down for this program. And 00:11:27.349 --> 00:11:32.496 so I enjoyed keeping up with her for a long time. One of her concerns was 00:11:32.529 --> 00:11:38.696 that in the area of peace, we do not usually talk about peace as being an 00:11:38.729 --> 00:11:44.787 important part of our, of our history. We talk about wars and we talk 00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:49.505 about the Second World War, the first World War, but we don't label areas 00:11:49.538 --> 00:11:54.996 according to peace. And so she was trying to look at the vocabulary that 00:11:55.029 --> 00:12:01.037 works was in the area of peace uh in the undergraduate program uh in a 00:12:01.070 --> 00:12:05.826 multicultural education class. One of the students that excited me a great 00:12:05.859 --> 00:12:12.686 deal was seeing her about a year after she had finished at a su and she 00:12:12.719 --> 00:12:19.025 was 1/6 grade teacher in a rather difficult part of town. And I asked her 00:12:19.058 --> 00:12:24.385 how it was going. She said, great people can't believe this is my first 00:12:24.418 --> 00:12:30.476 year in teaching. And I said, why, how, what did you do? She said, oh, I 00:12:30.509 --> 00:12:35.167 just tried the things you used to do in our class, which was sort of fun 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.826 to hear. And I might say I now live here at Friendship Village and there 00:12:39.859 --> 00:12:47.385 are some former students of mine who are also living here. 00:12:47.418 --> 00:12:51.366 Tell us about the your own research. 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:55.366 Well, my research was mostly in the peace studies. But one of the 00:12:55.399 --> 00:13:00.986 interesting things is that I was not a researcher as such. Um when I came 00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:07.467 to Arizona State University in 1968 you were not required to do research, 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:14.336 they hoped you would. Uh but you were not required to do this. And when I 00:13:14.369 --> 00:13:21.015 went, went over to the West Bank to work. I wrote this curriculum for, for 00:13:21.048 --> 00:13:24.986 what we would call religious education. I think they called it civics 00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:31.686 class or something. And why? Because the Minister of Education of Jordan 00:13:31.719 --> 00:13:37.967 was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. He had gotten his doctorate at 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:42.505 Columbia University, but he would have very much opposed anything along 00:13:42.538 --> 00:13:50.538 this line. The Israelis had said you can work with the laws of Jordan as 00:13:50.538 --> 00:13:55.145 long as they don't interfere with what they were trying to do. The 00:13:55.178 --> 00:13:59.755 materials that I wrote, I gave lectures and did discussions and things. 00:13:59.788 --> 00:14:04.316 But the materials that I wrote could not be published. They couldn't be 00:14:04.349 --> 00:14:08.787 published because of the Minister of Jordan, they couldn't be published in 00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:14.787 Israel. Among other things, I had suggested that in the class on ISMs in 00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:19.186 the high school level where they were concerned about communism and other 00:14:19.219 --> 00:14:25.836 things that they might look in particular at Ramallah and do a study of 00:14:25.869 --> 00:14:31.505 economics of Ramallah. The Israelis will not allow that. So with both 00:14:31.538 --> 00:14:39.538 sections saying, no, it was never published. I had a chair who ask me to 00:14:39.599 --> 00:14:46.375 apply for a promotion. He asked two other women and one man I was told by 00:14:46.408 --> 00:14:54.408 , by someone uh my chair in foundations that uh this was done deliberately. 00:14:55.029 --> 00:15:01.125 He wanted the man to get it. But I presented my materials and they hadn't 00:15:01.158 --> 00:15:07.496 been published and they were not, I was not accepted for promotion. I 00:15:07.529 --> 00:15:11.686 thought if this is the game you play, I'm not gonna participate. I don't 00:15:11.719 --> 00:15:17.417 believe in it. So I never tried to do anymore. I figured if I wanted to do 00:15:17.450 --> 00:15:22.566 some research, it would be because I wanted to do it. Not because anyone 00:15:22.599 --> 00:15:27.976 was encouraging me, but they gave me a reason for not doing the research. 00:15:28.009 --> 00:15:33.667 I did later do some things, but I was not known as a researcher and I 00:15:33.700 --> 00:15:38.025 might say, I thought it was interesting that despite that I was elected to 00:15:38.058 --> 00:15:44.316 be on the personnel committee of the department. 00:15:44.349 --> 00:15:49.875 How were your travels to other countries? Funded most of the time out of 00:15:49.908 --> 00:15:56.566 my pocket? I had gone before coming here uh on what was sometimes called 00:15:56.599 --> 00:16:00.986 work camps where you worked with people from other countries. And I had 00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:06.936 gone to Holland after the floods of Holland. In 1953 I had worked in 00:16:06.969 --> 00:16:13.307 Mexico in 55 with the Oom Indians in particular. I'd gone there hoping to 00:16:13.340 --> 00:16:18.586 learn Spanish. But the Odom didn't speak Spanish before I came here. I'd 00:16:18.619 --> 00:16:24.717 applied to go as a student even because all he was teaching school. But I 00:16:24.750 --> 00:16:29.086 said I'd be a graduate student this summer if I didn't get to go. And so I 00:16:29.119 --> 00:16:34.316 went on the first student exchange between the United States and the 00:16:34.349 --> 00:16:39.645 Soviet Union. It was interesting because we were not under, in tourist uh 00:16:39.678 --> 00:16:44.836 but under their youth organizations and we got all of our mail at the 00:16:44.869 --> 00:16:50.625 Embassy. In fact, my parents were not even aware because mail was so slow 00:16:50.658 --> 00:16:55.667 that I had arrived until I had walked into the Embassy and said, can I 00:16:55.700 --> 00:17:02.515 cast of, of my primary, I vote for the State of Texas. And I did this and 00:17:02.548 --> 00:17:07.805 they took photographs and it showed up at home and my mother said I'd made 00:17:07.838 --> 00:17:13.456 it. She hadn't gotten the letters yet. So I returned though, back to the 00:17:13.489 --> 00:17:18.155 Soviet Union uh in 1969 00:17:18.188 --> 00:17:23.986 on a church related one where I was traveling on call Christianity, 00:17:24.019 --> 00:17:29.925 communism and world peace. And then right after I finished, retired from 00:17:29.958 --> 00:17:34.365 Arizona State University, I went over in the summer of, went over for a 00:17:34.398 --> 00:17:42.398 short term in 9, 1990 1991 and 1992 all three years. It was during the ti 00:17:42.878 --> 00:17:48.305 the first year, it was under the US sr the last year it was Russia and in 00:17:48.338 --> 00:17:54.825 between and we were doing peace studies and doing conflict resolution work. 00:17:54.858 --> 00:18:01.426 And that was fascinating. I found that on the last time I was well, not. 00:18:01.459 --> 00:18:06.686 Yes. The last time I was there, I believe I was giving workshops for 00:18:06.719 --> 00:18:14.719 about 30 teachers and supervisors in the Moscow area. And I had on one 00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:20.776 side of the one translator, on the other side, another translator. These 00:18:20.809 --> 00:18:25.476 were young doctors who had left the medical profession to become 00:18:25.509 --> 00:18:30.637 translators and had been done that earlier for the international uh 00:18:30.670 --> 00:18:35.085 physicians for social responsibility. And they were so excellent that I 00:18:35.118 --> 00:18:39.956 could have a discussion and a student on a teacher of one part of the room 00:18:39.989 --> 00:18:44.266 could be answering something and they could be whispering what they were, 00:18:44.299 --> 00:18:49.717 she was saying. So I didn't have to stop for the, for the interpretations. 00:18:49.750 --> 00:18:55.825 And it was really a great experience of doing that. 00:18:55.858 --> 00:18:59.805 Sounds like you've had so many good experiences. Is there a special event 00:18:59.838 --> 00:19:03.976 that stands out in your memory or a special person you'd like to tell us 00:19:04.009 --> 00:19:12.009 about before I left a uh a su I did go to India. Yes, I was in 79 with the 00:19:12.199 --> 00:19:17.387 Gandhi Peace Foundation and the LA Fellowship for some studies. When did 00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:22.085 you first become interested in peace? 00:19:22.118 --> 00:19:28.467 I have no idea. Really. Uh My parents were interested because I grew up in 00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:34.016 a family who had known Europe before the, before the Second World War. Oh 00:19:34.049 --> 00:19:39.996 , I knew I heard them frequently talk about things and I think they had 00:19:40.029 --> 00:19:45.825 probably been interested in peace earlier. And one of the things that you 00:19:45.858 --> 00:19:50.467 haven't asked me, but I'll talk about in a moment. Uh My parents kept 00:19:50.500 --> 00:19:54.825 saying what is the church doing for peace? And I kept looking for that 00:19:54.858 --> 00:19:59.377 when I looked in Washington and other places and they finally set up a 00:19:59.410 --> 00:20:04.627 little pro a program where they were that for peace. I began thinking, 00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:09.276 what is Arizona State University or what are other universities doing in 00:20:09.309 --> 00:20:12.575 peace. There are some peace studies programs in various parts of the 00:20:12.608 --> 00:20:18.696 nation. And I thought, oh, why if, if they aren't doing anything, maybe 00:20:18.729 --> 00:20:24.986 it's up to me to do something. And so as you may know, uh, over a period 00:20:25.019 --> 00:20:29.717 of time, first I gave some money to the Center for, when I saw they were 00:20:29.750 --> 00:20:34.486 doing this for the center, center for the study of religion and conflict. 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.217 And I said, just add the word peace. So I gave some money for that. But 00:20:40.250 --> 00:20:46.236 then after Tony, the man who I married before his death, but we'd gone 00:20:46.269 --> 00:20:54.269 together for 35 years. When he died, I sold his house and I found that we 00:20:55.170 --> 00:21:02.226 were able to talk to foundation to see to it that we would have some say I 00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:07.555 matched the money of the house and with the help of the university and the 00:21:07.588 --> 00:21:13.627 foundation President Crow, we now have the Hart Nachos chair in Peace 00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:19.476 Studies with a professor here holding that chair. That was one of my great 00:21:19.509 --> 00:21:25.127 accomplishments, I think while I was still here at uh at some state 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:31.117 university, one of the professors here nominated me and I went to the 00:21:31.150 --> 00:21:35.647 Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development that met in Houston 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:42.236 , Texas in 1977. And I was presented with the Project Milestone 00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:48.006 Recognition Award, which I thought was quite beautiful. I was the 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:53.147 president of in the report from Arizona State University mentioned this 00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:58.065 but I'm gonna read these points because I thought they were so good. The 00:21:58.098 --> 00:22:03.436 milestone award was given for fostering and others, a sense of world 00:22:03.469 --> 00:22:09.575 community and appreciation for the interdependence of mankind, 00:22:09.608 --> 00:22:14.456 helping others to value human diversity and encouraging consistency 00:22:14.489 --> 00:22:18.565 between stated beliefs and action, 00:22:18.598 --> 00:22:23.315 facilitating others and moving toward understanding social problems in a 00:22:23.348 --> 00:22:26.367 global perspective, 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:31.545 developing and implementing curricula which promote individual and group 00:22:31.578 --> 00:22:36.397 responsibility and involvement. 00:22:36.430 --> 00:22:42.387 That to me was a beautiful award. I've tried to live up to it ever since 00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:47.266 then. 00:22:47.299 --> 00:22:52.085 What changes have you experienced in the time you started? Until the time 00:22:52.118 --> 00:23:00.118 you retired, we started a program which began in the junior year um in the 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:08.117 college of education where they went out into the field and did some work 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:12.535 and then did their student teaching in their senior year. Prior to that, 00:23:12.568 --> 00:23:17.726 you took most of your education classes and then went out as a student 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:23.236 teacher. In your senior year, we started com combining it together and in 00:23:23.269 --> 00:23:27.565 some respect that that is still going on in what they're doing in various 00:23:27.598 --> 00:23:33.946 parts. Now, I do know that most of the teacher education is really, I 00:23:33.979 --> 00:23:39.456 believe out on the West side right now in the west side campus. Uh but 00:23:39.489 --> 00:23:43.967 they still have things here. Tell us about some of the people who've had 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:49.226 the greatest impact on you on your years at a su Well, I've mentioned 00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:54.986 Nelson Hager so several times he got me involved in the uh association for 00:23:55.019 --> 00:24:00.387 supervision and curriculum development. And so, and uh worked with me on 00:24:00.420 --> 00:24:05.785 working to getting things done in the area of peace. Uh Mary Shaw was one 00:24:05.818 --> 00:24:11.526 of my chairs at one time and Mary encouraged me uh along those, those 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:16.607 lines, one aspect that I was involved with during my days in the area of 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:21.016 what women at Arizona State University, I was put on a little ad hoc 00:24:21.049 --> 00:24:27.946 committee looking at women, I represented faculty, women. Uh Kay Gamage 00:24:27.979 --> 00:24:35.406 represented administration uh out of that grew a study for women and uh 00:24:35.439 --> 00:24:40.926 and eventually a women's studies program. So I saw great changes along 00:24:40.959 --> 00:24:46.196 that line. I can even remember walking with Sue Shafer across the campus 00:24:46.229 --> 00:24:51.397 where her husband was in the part in English and saying, you know, the 00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:55.746 Supreme Court has just made a decision about nepotism and you can now 00:24:55.779 --> 00:25:01.897 apply to be a regular faculty member here and a full professor. So those 00:25:01.930 --> 00:25:07.815 were some of the changes that I saw taking place. I was chair of one 00:25:07.848 --> 00:25:15.016 committee and then later Secretary of the faculty Senate. Um I made the 00:25:15.049 --> 00:25:21.176 comment that I had found when I went into the Senate that one of the 00:25:21.209 --> 00:25:25.335 things that bothered me was that oftentimes the minutes would only say a 00:25:25.368 --> 00:25:29.186 motion had been passed about this, but it didn't give you any of the 00:25:29.219 --> 00:25:36.295 background to know why. So I wrote Long Minutes, some people appreciated 00:25:36.328 --> 00:25:41.526 that I'm not sure all of them did. 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.476 What kind of advice would you give young people in choosing their college 00:25:45.509 --> 00:25:49.585 and their career? I think I'm a little prejudiced as much as I love 00:25:49.618 --> 00:25:54.426 Arizona State University. But I really think to a great extent, the small 00:25:54.459 --> 00:25:59.756 college can really help a student grow a great deal. Those who've gone to 00:25:59.789 --> 00:26:04.026 small colleges are more likely to go on to graduate school than the 00:26:04.059 --> 00:26:09.347 average student at a large university. Now at a large university, I think 00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:13.726 they're working pretty hard on trying to make it comfortable for students 00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:20.766 to find that sort of whole a smaller group working together. Uh And so I 00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:26.295 see those changes, I would encourage students to try to have some 00:26:26.328 --> 00:26:32.656 experiences out in the field. Maybe working if they had need could before 00:26:32.689 --> 00:26:37.696 making their decisions about what they want to major in. If you want to go 00:26:37.729 --> 00:26:45.217 into education, I would suggest that you work with Children or youth so 00:26:45.250 --> 00:26:48.506 that you get to work, work with them before coming in. If you're 00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:53.766 interested in nursing, maybe you can volunteer at a hospital. I think 00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:57.815 there are many things that people can do to help them make their decisions 00:26:57.848 --> 00:27:02.565 about what they want to do when they come to a university and then you can 00:27:02.598 --> 00:27:10.016 pick the university that does the sort of thing that you're wanting, 00:27:10.049 --> 00:27:14.967 you've had a very fulfilling professional life, what's occupying your time 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.065 as a retiree? 00:27:18.098 --> 00:27:22.666 Well, I think I'm still active in peace activities to a great extent. As a 00:27:22.699 --> 00:27:29.736 Quaker, I helped organize a conference on peace. It was the first time 00:27:29.769 --> 00:27:35.377 they'd had a conference of any kind for 25 years. Uh A committee was 00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:40.706 chosen and I became the chair who our co-chair. But I ended up being the 00:27:40.739 --> 00:27:48.739 one who conducted every planning session every week for 10 months. We 00:27:48.828 --> 00:27:55.347 never met until we arrived at the time of the conference. And it turned 00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:59.127 out to be a very excellent conference. One of the things soon after my 00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:04.805 retirement from a su was to be an honoree of at a pow. Wow. At the Indian 00:28:04.838 --> 00:28:10.746 Old Indian school. One of my students was so excited about my being there 00:28:10.779 --> 00:28:15.347 at a conference that when I went on to the stage to say something as I 00:28:15.380 --> 00:28:20.717 came down, she met me and she was so thrilled. She took the earrings out 00:28:20.750 --> 00:28:27.696 of her ears and gave them to me. I did not have pierced earrings ears at 00:28:27.729 --> 00:28:33.516 that time, but I got them after that. 00:28:33.549 --> 00:28:38.315 Do you have any comments in areas we haven't covered? I would say that my 00:28:38.348 --> 00:28:42.416 days at Arizona State University were very worthwhile and very fulfilling 00:28:42.449 --> 00:28:48.496 . I did run into the conflicts that I mentioned to you earlier. I did run 00:28:48.529 --> 00:28:54.236 into some of those, but I still felt very good. I am very pleased when I 00:28:54.269 --> 00:28:59.835 meet students, former students and see what all they are doing today. I 00:28:59.868 --> 00:29:05.555 think my greatest interest was in education and in teaching. And so that 00:29:05.588 --> 00:29:10.776 was what I enjoyed the most while I was there. Ok. Thank you very much, 00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:16.729 Doctor Hart. Thank you for asking me to do this.