Good morning. It's the 22nd day of April 2015.
We're conducting an interview for the Arizona State University Retirees
Association video History project. We are located today in the A SU
Community Services building. I'm Gary Creen Bee. The technical support
staff today include John mcintosh, operating the camera, Roger Carter
handling the audio, Linda Van Goy director uh David sats chair of the
video history project and we appreciate all of you contributing to this
work. And now our interviewee, I'll have him introduce himself and uh tell
us uh uh what position he held while he was at a su uh My name is Richard
Peck. I came here as Provost in 1988 accidentally became interim president
when Russ Nelson retired almost immediately after I arrived. And um I
spent nine months in that job and during that time was nominated for a
presidency elsewhere. So I left here to go to University of New Mexico
where I retired after another 10 years
and we'll get back to that uh because he couldn't stay retired. He uh
actually found himself in some other positions um in retirement, I guess.
Um
Would you tell our viewers today a little bit about, uh, your early life
where you grew up, what schools you attended? Um, and what, what led you
to your academic career? I was born in Milwaukee, but my parents lived to
Mo, lived in rural Wisconsin outside of Milwaukee. I had a wonderful break.
I went to a two room country school. The first four grades were in one
room. So one year I was in the first grade and the next year I was in the
third grade and didn't notice the difference. I've been listening to the
all the same lessons all day, every day. Um, and so I had a great
experience in school. A couple of very good teachers and they, uh, let me
continue kind of at my own pace and it was a great experience. I went
through the first eight grades there, then moved to Tacoma briefly. My
father moved west because of his health. We lived in Tacoma, Washington.
Um, and then, um, I went back to Wisconsin to go to college. After five
years in the Marine Corps. I worked in a foundry after, uh, high school
and decided there was something better than that. I didn't know what it
was enlisted in the Marine Corps. That was not it. Uh, but, but I had five
good years in the Marine Corps and, and because of one of the most perfect
federal bills ever, I got my college education. I went on the G I Bill and
the G I Bill educated a lot of us, a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't
have gone to school. I went to a small school in Wisconsin Carroll College
and I was in the experiment. Uh Roanna Benjamin was the, I will name her.
Now, thank you. Roanna was the registrar there and she accepted every
year, a couple of what she called her spooks. Um She liked my letter. I
wrote a letter saying I'm coming to college there in January. Should I do
anything? I had no idea. No, nobody in my family had ever been to school.
And she said, yes, you have to send us your SAT scores, college, your
high school transcript and three letters of recommendation. So I wrote
back and said, uh I don't have my grades. You ask my high school, they
probably have them. I don't know what an SAT is and um, ask my mother, she
give me some names for recommendation and I went to school and I found out
years later she had done all those things and she put together my
application form and accepted me there along with her other spook for the
year was a man named Tom Josephson. Tom was a um shepherd in a line shack
in Montana. He spent a couple of years reading, decided to go to school.
So he applied to Carroll college. There is a Carroll college in Montana.
The postal system being then what it is now sent his letter to the wrong
carroll college. She sent it to the one in Wisconsin. And Ryan and
Benjamin looked at and said, yeah, he's a good one. So she took him. So uh
we were her two spooks that year. It was an accident. I shouldn't have
been in school and I thank her to the day I die. Uh So it, it's a G I Bill
and A and a couple of very interesting faculty members, went to graduate
school at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. My first job was at the
University of Virginia. Um then to Temple University for 15 years in
Philadelphia. And I got on to an administrative track. I ended up, I was
the head of a remedial writing program and then went to manage a Temple
campus in Rome for two years. And so that experience got me nominated for
a couple of administrative jobs. I was Dean of Arts and Sciences at
Alabama Provost at Arizona State, interim President, Arizona State, then
president at the University of New Mexico for 10 years, retired and became
interim president of um University of South Florida in Tampa. I was there
for eight months and, and as an interim, I learned something very
interesting. Faculty members can hold their breath for eight months. Um
They uh they know when you're coming in, they know when you're gonna leave.
And so that end of the eight months in the middle, doesn't matter very
much. Had a great experience, a nice place to be. But July came around and
Tampa is not a place to be in July. So, uh, I finally retired and, uh,
Gary said a minute ago, I, I keep doing things since retirement. I've had
uh, 12 books and nine plays. And so I just got back last night from
directing a play on Kawa. I was there for four months. wonderful
experience, great excuse for a vacation and I still enjoy it.
You walked us through your career. This, this interview focuses on your A
SU years primarily. Um What attracted you to a su and uh and when exactly
did you serve here, I came in um 88 and was here for only for two years. I
came in uh in 88. And as I said, Russ Nelson, the president when I got
here um had suffered a bout of um valley fever and he decided he had
enough time in the job. And so he retired a few weeks after I got here, I
finished off that year as Provost and then became interim president for
another year at that time. Um I met Lady Co who hadn't yet come to campus
and we talked a couple of times about the transition. I went to Vermont to
meet with him and um it wasn't at all clear whether he would want me to
continue in his administration or I would want to, I didn't know that. So
I accepted the nomination to apply for a couple of other jobs and did and
moved on. But I had two very good years here and I enjoyed the experience
a lot. I learned a good bit. I learned a lot from Russ even in that short
time that we were together. Uh One example, one of the departments was
unhappy with the treatment they perceived to be receiving from the dean. I
thought the dean was right. Um I thought the department was being
unreasonable and I didn't know what to do about it. And Russ said, what
you do about it is meet with everybody in the department, talk with them,
listen to what their complaints are. So it was a substantially sized
department. Let me guess, 30 people. I spent half an hour to an hour with
each one of them and each one of them said the same thing he said, I'm ok.
But these other guys are really unhappy with the deed and one at a time,
they all declared their allegiance and also identified the rebels in the
middle of their own department. And after all those conversations, the
furor died down, uh things calmed down and uh we went on, the nice thing
was when I left, I got a letter from the chairman of that department who
thanked me, should have thanked Russ, thanked me for the conversations
that we had and for simply listening to what they had to say. I didn't do
anything about it frankly, but the people need to be here, heard. And I
learned that because of Russ's advice, I thought at first he was wrong.
Why am I gonna waste all that time listening to people who just want to
complain, but it wasn't a waste of time and I learned a good bit about
them and, uh, and it worked out well. So, um, Kudos to Russ Nelson for one
of my lessons and there were others. Most of this interview will focus on
uh the administration because that's what you were involved in. But um as
I recall, you were a, a Mark Twain scholar or at least that was one of the
, one of the things that you had focused on. Do you have a favorite Mark
Twain story? Uh um Yes and not, not a story of that he wrote, but one of
his letters always tickles me. He had um had the misfortune of having
Huckleberry Finn stolen by a British publisher. There was no international
copyright and one of Mark Twain's greatest achievements was to get an
international copyright in place. But a British publisher published
Huckleberry Finn without giving him anything and then shipped it to the US
to be sold uh when that was not found to be legal, they shipped it to
Canada where it was legal and it was trucked across the border. So there
were bootlegs, um copies of Huckleberry Finn being sold in the States. And
Mark Twain went to a Connecticut court and filed a lawsuit and the judge
found in favor of the publisher, not him. So here's the Mark Twain letter
it said approximately, I won't quote it exactly. A Connecticut judge has
just found an open court that someone else can sell my property property,
they have not paid for, have not acquired legally under that ruling, which
I respect because it's the law I hereby offer the judge's homestead for
sale. And if I make as much money out of it as I hope I'm gonna go ahead
and sell the rest of his property.
And instead of getting angry, he got Mark Twain, uh, he ended up finding a
way to live with the mistake and to turn it into something humorous and I
like that about him. That's a good story. I, I had never heard that one.
Um going back now to the uh central focus of this. What was a su like when
you arrived? You'd been at Virginia, at Temple at Alabama. Um So you had
some, had some reference points. What, what, what did you see? What was
unique about a su um It was, it's an urban school. It wasn't an urban
school but didn't feel like an urban school and it didn't feel like Temple.
I, it felt more like a uh uh I would say prestigious State University in
an urban setting. And so we had kids who were first generation. That's one
of the marks of a lot of urban schools. But we also had kids who were prep
school graduates. And so it was an interesting mix of students. I got to
enjoy them. I particularly enjoyed in respect of the honors college and I
knew about it, uh almost firsthand because my daughter became a freshman,
the year I became president here and she was in the honors college and had
the kind of experience that every student should have during the years
I've taught, I don't know how many students I ever inspired. I know there
are examples of kids I turned off by, by using um rules that maybe didn't
apply to individuals. There was something a little bit oppressive about
the university when you're a kid and coming into this big organization, my
daughter, some fluke ended up with four or five wonderful teachers, every
single one of her teachers, her freshman year in the honors college. And
she lived in the honors college when it was, I don't know if it's still
residential, but uh she had a great experience and she would come home and
she visited me. I lived in Mesa at the time. She would come home to do her
laundry on the weekends and celebrate the faculty and she would say, oh,
I'm gonna major in this. But I was wonderful. Every day she changed her
major. She majored, she planned to major in every one of the classes she
took, she ended up majoring in honors itself and put together her own uh
degree package of um of arts and humanities in the honors program. But she
had a, a good experience and, um, and made her way through school and I
talked to her advisor when she graduated and she said, I always had one
question, how old was Laura when she was born? Uh And I said, I don't know
what that means. He said what it means is she came here um knowing what
she wanted to do every single day, it changed and every single day she did
it better. And it, it just uh a very great experience for her so much so
that she ended up getting her uh master and doctorate at uh NYU and came
back here as faculty and for a time, ran the Downtown Honors Campus. And
so she's still a big a Su fan. Although I do remember the day she was
taking students around in a summer tour, one of the 120 degree days. And
uh she told one of the girls when, when you come back here, uh we were,
the girls had stopped. I am never coming back here. Are you out of your
mind? Why, why would I come back here? And Laura was trying to sell her on
, on the university and the girl said, get me to an airplane. I just let
it So there are two sides to the student stories here. Um But she had a
wonderful time when she was here and that made me feel good. She had been
accepted to the University of Wisconsin, had the winter coat, had all the
stuff ready to go and visited here when I came for my interview. And she
said one day, would you be mad if I went to a su instead of Wisconsin? I
said, why would I be mad about that? And so she came here as almost an
accident. I think her education, my education have been a series of happy
accidents and things do tend to work out. Yeah. Did the size of a su um
seem like an asset or a liability? Did that strike you as important in any
way that came up often when I would talk to alumni groups or to potential
students? And they say, where do we go? We to a small college or a large
university? I said you go to a small college like all the dozen small
colleges at a su because when you're in a small college in humanities and
if you're here in the social sciences, you're in a particular cohort of
people. Uh If you're here in the sciences, you're in a particular group of
people and the honors college itself is small. And so you're in a small
college in the middle of a large university with much greater opportunity
, so many more things you can study that you've got the advantage of both
. I don't know if I ever sold anybody on that. But, but I do believe that
and I think that the, um, a humanities college and a large university is
for me the ideal way to go are there, uh, are there events that stand out
in your memory? Um, as, uh, ones that, uh, sort of have stayed with you?
There's a story that I'd like you to tell about the Danforth Chapel, but
there, there probably are others as well. It's, it's been a long time, but
I do remember some of it, the Danforth Chapel had um there were people on
campus who were concerned that this was a conflict between um education
and religion and this is a public university and we should not be churchy
and so on. Um And so, uh the conflict went on and bubbled. It was in the
newspaper and not much happened until one day I got to campus early and
the cross off the top of the Danforth Chapel was lying on the ground and
one of the students said the wind blew it off and I said, God works in one
of the ways his miracles to perform, the wind will blow it back up by
tonight. Uh And the wind blew it back on top of the chapel. Come on,
people. There are ways of talking about these issues instead of uh taking
, taking the destruction into your own hands. But that was what I remember
about that episode. Um, I also got arrested by the campus police, uh, by,
uh, for driving a golf. I had a golf cart. You remember some of you will
remember, uh, the president had a golf cart to get from one side of campus
to another. And I didn't know that you couldn't go down the street behind
the library. There was a kind of a one way street. So I got stopped. Um,
and he said, uh, get off, I got off my golf cart and he said, what are you
doing here? He said, well, I'm on my way to a meeting and I'm president.
He said, President of what, as a president of Arizona State University, he
said, no, you're not come with me. So I followed him in my cart and we
went and talked to somebody who, who let me go. Um, so I, I don't know if
I talk my way out of it or looked pitiful. But anyway, I was dismissed but
I got arrested on campus. I thought that was fun.
Anything else come to mind? Uh, the, uh, uh, more substantive. I mean,
these are fun but I, I'm a, a sports fan and so I enjoyed all of the
activities here and I enjoyed making a change in the activity center and
changing some seats. Um, uh, row of seats. I don't know if they're still
there. We changed a set of seats also though more substantive. Um I had
been at individual universities never part of a system. And so when I got
here, I went to the board of regents meeting and the regents meetings or
the councils that I had dealt with before, were all focused
representatives and, and sponsors of that institution. And I got here and
there were some people on the board of regents who were not devout A SU
fans. Um They uh were from the agricultural school down south. And so uh
it, it was intriguing to me to watch the interplay there. And we had, well
, I'll credit the press. This is not my thing. They talked about the
Arizona representatives and the A SU representatives and the
representatives from Port Little Nau. Uh Gene Hughes who was president
would start every one of his pleas for money with a story about Port
Little Nau with being overpowered by the other universities here. Um None
of it was true but it was a, a kind of stick that, that he had. Um we had
a disagreement once I had a disagreement once with a couple of regions
about the University of Arizona establishing a campus and office uh in
Tempe. Um They thought it was a good idea. I didn't think it was a good
idea. I said, uh how about if we put an A SU campus in Tucson? And they
said, get serious, why would you do that? And I said, um I mean, these
little conversations came along and they were irritants. Uh I don't know
if they changed much. Uh The regent got along. We had one regent who was
the press call. Eileen, a reporter from the East Valley called the
Talkative Regent. If you wanted something said she could pry it out of him
and she could get about any quotation she wanted from him. It was an
interesting experience because the, the breadth of experience on the board
of Regents is a benefit to the university. But it also means that there
are some people there who are not going to agree with one another. And so
the meetings were always interesting. Um I don't know if they were always
productive, but uh they had a job to do and I had a job to do so. Um I'm
not sure I enjoyed it. I understood it, but it was very different from my
experience before that you and I were both um able to spend a little time
with one of the students who has subsequently become quite famous uh in
the golf world. Uh Phil Mickelson, right? Uh Maybe you could uh people
would probably like to hear a little bit about your interaction with Phil
when he was here, I played with Phil twice here, I played with him uh
three times subsequently because the uh NCAA golf championship was held at
the University of New Mexico Campus. So when Phil came over, I played the
practice round with him there. It was always a disappointment to me that
when we were on the course, nobody ever confused the two of us. Uh, nobody
ever came up to me and said, Phil, how are you? Um, and my wife explained
that he's left handed. And so that's, that's the whole, that's the whole
difference. But, uh, I asked Phil when he was a freshman and set the
course record on the, on the new course. I don't know what the record is
now, but he was nine under. Um And, uh, he didn't know he could miss a
putt. It just, it didn't occur to him. And they all went in and I said to
him, um, people were talking to him about turning pro at the end of his
freshman year. I said, are you going out, are you gonna, uh, go on a tour
? And he said, no, he said I want to be able to manage my own money. He
said, I know that there are people I will deal with the rest of my life
are educated people. I'm gonna stay here, I'm gonna get the degree. And he
also said, and I, I really admired this about it. He's a freshman said the
money will still be there when I graduate. Uh There'll still be
opportunities for me. I don't have to do it now. And there was, he walked
out of the activity center with his diploma in the same graduating class
that my daughter was in, uh, and signed a contract with the club
manufacturer then for a good bit of money. And so he started off his
career here, played well here, won the tournament, here, won the Phoenix,
um, tournament as, as a, uh, actually he won a Tucson tournament as a
college student. Um, but of course, he's won the Phoenix Open several
times since, But I've, uh, I've only seen him a couple of times since then.
Um, but my wife and I continue to cheer for him. He's a, he's a credit to
the university
when you were here. Where were the president's? Well, Provost and
president's offices on campus.
Um, well, you won't be able to name the building and I'm sorry, I can't.
But, uh, uh, we were in the same building, uh, down the hall from each
other. Uh, so my move from Provo, the president was pretty short, uh, to
move down there. And in fact, a funny thing happened when, uh, when the
regent asked if I would be interim president for the period it took to
recruit the, the permanent president. Um, I said yes. But I had a funny
problem though. I had two wonderful associate provost. I was Provost and
they were Matt Betts and Elmer Gooding. And so what we did instead of you
, see, I could have made one of them Provost and then we'd have to hire an
associate provost and you start dominoes started moving people all over
the place and that didn't seem to make sense. So what we did, the three of
us sat down and we divided up the work that four of us should be doing.
The president, the provost and two associate provost and we split it up by
task. Uh, and so the, the three of us, I had a very busy year and didn't
have to add 1/4 person to it. Uh That way when I took, temporarily, took
the job and then left, they stayed on the job, they already had and
already knew one of the problems that a lot of universities is that you
take someone who's good at X and you promote him to Y and if you do that
enough, you take the head of the English Department and make him the dean
, which he's never done before. And you take somebody um in the English
Department who's never had an administrative job and make him head of the
department. And so what you have is two new people instantly the job. And
if the, if the dominoes fall far enough, you could have a quarter of your
administrators in the university, new in the job they're in, they're
capable people. I recognize that, but not in that specific task. So it's
an awkwardness and it's often better though less popular to hire somebody
from outside who's done the job elsewhere and bring them in that creates
his own problems. But, uh, um, it was kind of strange to see people change.
And one of the things that I don't like about any university is the
person who answers the phone the first time you call is the most recently
hired, lowest paid secretary. And this is the person who's the face of the
university. And you, if somebody calls and they will ask the question of
someone who doesn't have any idea what the answer is, it would be much
better to take the president who retires and put him on that phone. Um
Somebody who does know what the place is about or a senior secretary and
make it a very kind of prestigious office instead of giving it as um and
make work to somebody who hasn't done the job before. No, that's not going
to happen. I understand, but I make up things. It would be fun to do
the uh people. I'm sure that will listen to this interview would like to
know about um achievements that you feel good about during the time you
were here. One obviously is the fact that the university I think operated
very well in that transition um between uh when you were serving as
interim president. Um I don't recall that there were any problems at all.
But are there other things that uh or would you want to comment on that?
But are there other things that stand out? Yeah. I would comment because
uh I went to Vermont to meet with lady and he asked me what I thought the
problems were and what the opportunities were. And I was as frank as I
could be without any idea of what that would mean to him and then kept out
of his way. And I am pleased to say I, I never gave him advice after he
got here. That was not my job unless he asked a question, a specific
question. And I had that benefit elsewhere when I went to um New Mexico,
the preceding president and I met three times for me to ask questions, he
didn't volunteer anything that uh would appear to be unnecessary advice.
And I think that's a good idea because a new person has to do his job and
he wouldn't be coming here if he weren't capable. And Matt and Lady
already had a dozen years in the presidency elsewhere, so he knew what he
was up to. But I thought the transition went well, uh except for one
moment before he came, arrived, he came and we were, he and I both went to
a spring baseball game and we were there and a man came up and said, Mr
President and we both sat there kind of looking at each other. Who's gonna
answer this one? Who's he, who's he talking to? Uh Well, uh I got over
that quickly. As soon as I left, it wasn't an issue anymore and there was
an issue with lady. But uh he had a good run here and uh I, I enjoyed
talking with him a couple of times after I went to New Mexico. So I would
give him a call and he was always open to talk. He told a wonderful story.
This is his story. But let me tell it. He said when you become president
of the university, um it's very easy for your ego to swell. You get to be
very self important. Very quickly. He said, he, when he became president
of Vermont, he'd only been there a week and his son came running upstairs
, he was taking a shower. His son, you got a, you got a phone call and
Larry said, take, take the message. He said, no, no, no, it's Time
magazine and they, they have to talk to you. So he got dried off and went
to the phone and said, this is President Core. Um And he said, wondering
all the time, which of my faculty has done something worth celebrating or
something worth criminal indictment. And the woman on the phone said, oh,
I'm glad I've got you. We've got a special offer now and a few years of
all.
And he said, uh now I, I might not have taken the call if I'd known what
it was about. But, but my ego told me it's Time Magazine and they want to
talk to somebody important. So here I am. Um I, I like the self effacing
part of that story.
Are there any challenges as you think over your career? Are there any
challenges that uh were especially uh interesting or tough to overcome or
that remain in your memory? Um Well,
I, I know that um it is, as lady said, it, it's easy to uh think you are
worth more than you are the, the, the job. First of all, it is the job
that's important and not the guy who's doing the job. And it's, uh, hard
to remember that sometimes. Um, when I went to a meeting, I had a long
stretch here where I didn't have any days off and I went to a meeting and
my wife and I were off campus and I got there and I had a phone message
from my secretary and I thought, oh, what is it? The, one of the regents
had a couple of sons who had done badly in math here and he'd been calling
me regularly and I thought, oh, here's more of that. So I went to the pick
up the phone and the lady from my office who called said, uh, you're gonna
be gone four days here. You want me to water your plants while you're gone
? Um, I made an executive decision and I said, yes, go ahead and water the
plants. Um, your life goes on. The plants need watering. It's not all
about what the regions are concerned with. It's about who's gonna water
your plants.
What's your, uh, do you have a best memory uh of your time here? Uh I, I'm
embarrassed to admit this. I don't remember the name of the campus student
newspaper. The State Press. State Press. OK. The State Press, um, had
three students interview me and, uh, it was much more laudatory and
complimentary than I deserved. And they wrote a story about, uh they were
sorry, I was uh leaving and going to another university and uh it was very
flattering and I saved it and I probably believed it. I don't think
anybody else would, but it was, uh it was full of uh compliments for, for
little tiny things. Uh listening to people uh um being present, I went to
every campus activity that I could think of. I went to club meetings. And
, uh, and so it's what somebody told me. It was facetime. You got to be at
the meetings, you have to show up, you have to be there and demonstrate
that you're interested. Um I wore the colors, I still believe in that. I
was asked to advise an incoming president at another university and he was
going to an alumni meeting and I said that school's colors were uh a
couple of shades of green and blue and he had a red necktie on. I said, no
, I can't change your necktie. And he said that's not important. I said
what are the alumni? It probably, it's a dumb little thing. I know. And he
said, well, I'm pretty busy so I went to the student bookstore and bought
him a necktie. Um, and it, it matters.
Um, you dress up not to look impressive, you dress up to show respect for
the people you're talking to and I, I wanna know that you care about the
institution. It's a tiny little thing but I don't know, it's probably my
wife taught me that. Um I don't know who else. I know that. Uh both Gary
sitting beside me and Sam Kirkpatrick knew that I was a candidate here and
we had two or three conversations about that. Um Sam told me um things I
would dislike about the place. Um Gary was a good adviser, telling me to
be patient and wait. It took a long time for me to hear it was a long time
before the response to my letter. Um So it was uh little comforting uh
support like that. Very helpful to somebody in a, in a public and visible
job.
Oh, I know this happened after you left a su but it provides insight into
uh the way you approach leadership and the presidency. I recall once that
uh it seems like you hurt your back at New Mexico uh helping new students
when they arrived on campus. That might be an interesting, it was, it was
fun to do um Each semester when the students would come in, I would put on
khakis and a sweatshirt and go help them move into the dorm and grab a
suitcase and take it up there. And I never identified myself. I just
wanted to know where they were from, what they were here, what they were
looking for. And I could point them to people who could give them the
answers. And that was a way for me to get to know them. And one of them I
will tell the story is not about here. But if you don't mind the story
about New Mexico, uh a woman named Abby Garchik was from Racine Wisconsin
, which is where I was uh went to high school and I happened to be in
Racine visiting my mother when I saw that she had signed to play
basketball at New Mexico. So I called, there's only one Garchik on the
phone I called and I said this is Richard Peck. I'm president of um a
University of New Mexico. She said, no, you're not. And hung up. So I
called again. I said, yes I am and she's not. Some, some friends were
making fun of me. And I said, no, I'm really well, we finally talked it
out but she came to campus, she and her grandfather and I helped her take
her bags into her room and she would not talk to me or not. Look at me the
whole time and she stuck her head and hide every time for four years, she
hid every time I went by, I'm embarrassed by that. But, uh, yeah, kids are
kids and it's, it's fun to see how they're behaving. Um, I don't mind the
tattoos and the haircuts and all the rest of it different from my
generation. But, uh, uh, the kids I met here and there have all been
pretty nice, excited about what they're doing and that's fun
looking, uh, at your time now in retirement. Uh, how do you, you, you
talked a little bit about it but maybe you could elaborate a little bit on
how you spend your time and, and what motivates you and, uh, keeps you
active. Um, in the, uh, Albuquerque area, there are 19 senior residences
and retirement centers and I go from one to another. I, I've been to each
one of them at least twice, most of them, three or four times and, and
tell stories and talk about things like, uh, travel stories or whatever.
Uh, as part of the entertaining. If they enjoy it, sometimes they buy one
of my books. I have, uh, if you, if you allow me to count published plays
as books, they're in book form, but they're different. They're not as
popular and people don't read plays very much, but I've got 27 titles now.
And so I go and talk about them in one way or another. Some people buy
the books, some don't. Um, but it's a way for me to keep active, I guess.
And I continue to write my wife and I see too many films we see every
movie that comes out I think, including the bad ones. Um, I play golf
badly as Gary knows. But, um, I've been at it for a while. I can still
shoot in the high eighties, not the low eighties anymore. And I never got
any better than that, but I enjoy it. And people who don't play golf, say
, why do you spend all that time? I get to walk five miles on the lawn
that somebody else mowed. I mean, it's a, it's a pretty place and courses
are, um, at the Carson course is wonderful. It starts off so easy. The 1st
23 holes and it gets tougher and tougher and pretty soon you get put in
your place. But, um, I've enjoyed playing there. I've played with Gary, a
number of others here. When my wife and I come back to visit our daughter
, we go over and play the chorus. So I play golf more than I should. I, uh
, read, watch movies and I write and I write almost all day every day. So
I just, just finished the, a novel about five years of peacetime Marine
Corps when I was in, from 54 to 59. The only time in American history when
the Marine Corps was not being shot at somewhere we had no active enemies
at the time and I've taken credit for that. Um, during my five years in
the Marine Corps, nobody messed with us. Um, and I would go back but they
wouldn't take me now. Um, so, uh, I like telling stories and I write them
down and tell stories to my grandkids and to anybody who will listen, your
website says you get up in the morning and you walk so many steps to your
typewriter. 16 steps, 16 steps. Somebody asked me that one day. Well, what
do you do? I walk over to the, and I sit there all day and I can see out
the window and I got, uh, my stereo behind me and a TV, over in the corner
if I want to do that. And, um, every once in a while my wife feeds me and
she knows where I am. So I'm there and I literally, we go to that early
movie, the like seniors. Um, we are and, uh, we take care of ourselves. My
wife is an avid gardener. She's got about 800 a registered named Daylily.
She's on the national board of a Daily Association. So that takes a lot
of her time. So, uh, we live in the same house and we pass occasionally.
So, are there any other, uh, things you'd like to, uh, talk about or tell
us about, uh, as we, as we wrap this up, things we haven't covered or uh
that people might be interested in. Um I learned a lot while I was here.
One of the things that I admire was the library and uh one of my ambitions
when I got to New Mexico was to make the library and I'll be frank about
this as good and as nationally recognized as a S US library and that took
some effort. Um But I came back to visit here and talk to the librarian
who may have been maybe gone by now. I don't know. Sherry Schmidt was uh
no, no, it was. I know who you mean. Then it was her, the fellow that
preceded her. And he said he was very proud. He said, we now have
accessioned every book in the library, any book. Uh We have them all in
the card catalog. And I said, well, maybe not. Um because I looked up mine
which people do and it's not in the card catalog. He said, well, no, no,
no. Ok. I'll say this any book that's been checked out in the last 10
years
when it comes back in. We're certain to put it in the card catalog. And I
said, do you know what you just said? I, he said, oh, no, no, no. What I
said was people like your book so much, they read it in the sack, they
don't even check it out. But um I'm a li a fan of libraries and when I go
to different schools. I go to the library and, and see people I know um,
some of the former English faculty here, I've uh read Mark Harris, for
instance, I, before I ever got here I was at uh Virginia, there was a, a
television, a radio program called Quiz the Professor. And I was asked one
day to go on the show and talk about a book you like. And so I said, I did
, I, I like a book by uh Mark Harris. It's called Wake Up Stupid. Uh And
it's about the teacher and then there's the, the South Paw and that's by
Mark Harris. And so I um got a copy of my interview and sent it to Mark
Harris. I, I didn't know him. It maybe the only fan letter I sent and I
got to meet him when I finally came here and he was on the faculty. I had
not known him before that. And you know, you, you picture people and I
pictured this big husky ruddy guy and he wasn't, he was uh uh average size
uh getting along in years, quiet man. Um But I knew him from his books and
that's before I ever got here. Well, there are people out there who know
Arizona State because of the faculty who are here because of the things
that have happened because of activities in the space program, things that
are going on that not all of us pay attention to but individuals out there
know something about lots of people here and, uh, and I admire that about
a university. It's true of my own university. It's true of, I went to
South Florida after retirement. I spent a year as interim president down
there while they look for a capable person. And, um, and I had a good time.
I enjoyed it because I, I like universities. I like the, the people who
are there. I was once writing a story. Um And at the university there is,
there's an expert on everything, everything you want to know. And so I had
to find a drug for a, a TV script. I was trying to write. I said, I want a
drug that will give you a chemical lobotomy. That is, if I take this drug
, I'll be so perfectly compliant, complacent. I'll do anything I'm told.
But you can't tell that I've been drugged and I asked a pharmacologist at
the university where I was and he said, oh, you mean one of the veridical
? I said spill veridical. I mean, that's, I don't know what that means. I
didn't know that he gave me the name of a drug. I have no idea what it was
, but I look very authoritative in my book. Uh It's uh it's in there. Um
And it's just at the university, if you have a question on architecture on
any, you can walk across the campus and talk to somebody and they know.
And uh that's great fun. It's the education continues. Um If you stay
curious, you learn a lot of things, the uh architecture school with the
lavender stone. Um I remember hearing from uh architect that he went up on
a mountain and broke them on a stone and that's the color that became the
architecture school. And that was his version. I said, go find me that
stone. I don't believe you. Uh I don't think that's true, but I also had a
faculty member in the history department. I promised my last story stopped
in my office. She said, she said, have you seen the new building? I said,
yes, she said, do you see it's a lavender colored. I said, yes. She said,
well, that's got to be painted or taken down. And I said, II, I, I'm sorry
, who, who do you represent? She, she said, what do you mean? I said, will
you read me this message and she know my, me my opinion. I, I hate that
building. You either have to paint it or, or, or do something cover it up
. I said, or what, you know, what will you do if we don't? Well, I'm just
, I, you must um that's another side of the faculty.
Um They have firm ideas based on God knows what. Uh And they are the
people who become president, by the way, I admired one president who
allowed himself one A CD every semester I said, I don't know what that
means. He's one a CD. He said that's an arbitrary and capricious decision
is based on nothing at all. And I'm not going to explain it. So he had to
a semester. That's a good principle. Some people think uh presidents
become isolated from what's really going on. Um And I recall you gave a
talk one time where they were going to introduce the, introduce the
speakers alphabetically. Uh Maybe you could recall that story for no, this
was a con um Deans of Arts and Science. I think it was a deans meeting. Um
And we were talking about the importance of a provost, which I think is
very important. And I said, when I was president, I did whatever the
provost advised me. I mean, here's somebody who knows what's going on. And
so the man who was the uh introducing us all said we have three speakers
and we're going to introduce them alphabetically. Let's start with
President Peck. And um we had a couple other people higher in the alphabet.
And I said to him, now, I'm not gonna argue with you because I never
argued with my own provost. But if they've changed the alphabet, nobody
has told me about that. And that's really the provost's obligation to keep
you informed, to keep you up to date. Um So I went out of order then, but
uh so uh I see you have to be careful what you say, because he was there
and he remembers that uh
it was all. Um and uh never mind. Um Well, Dick, we've enjoyed uh your
insights and your stories. Uh We appreciate the effort you made to get
back here and uh participate in this program. Well, my pleasure. I, in
fact, I've spoken longer than I was president
and I hope somebody has fun with it.
Thank you. The purple building I think was designed by an architect, New
Mexico architect named Frido. Yes, it was. He knew the architecture
building and when you were there. Yes, for Rogers. Yeah, he did. And he uh
he was the one who explained the lavender color of it. But um I see, I, I
know I've met him since then and he's got the um Red Cross building in, in
Albuquerque that's blood red. Um He's also got a very interesting low
income housing with um it's just a, it's a block, there's nothing to it
except that around the rim of the building and doors, there are
fluorescent tubes um and it just, it picks it up, it just uh he has very
clever ideas. Um But he's also a snake oil salesman and uh what he says
has very little to do with what he does. I think the, the, the um you're
not taping this anyway when he got the commission to do Disneyland in
Paris and everybody else took models in and he took in a shoe box full of
gravel,
dumped it on the table and said, I'm bringing you the American Southwest.
Got the co he got the commission. Um, well, he's just, uh, he can sell ice
cubes, Eskimos, you know, that kind of story. A very clever guy and a good
architect. Um, but yeah, he was the one who did the building when they
were designing the building. I don't know if it was ever built. No, it, I
don't think it was built. Um a different one was, but across the street
from the library at one time, they were designing a building for that
space. And uh I think it was Will Bruder or the one that he did the
Phoenix Library maybe. Anyway, he submitted plans and um it had, it wasn't
going to cost too much and had too many too. Uh The square footage was too
great. And so they asked him to redo it and
it looked to us like all he'd done is put it in the copy machine and, and
recopy it at 90%.
So all the rooms that were 10 by 10 were now nine by nine or something.
Anyway, we never built the building. The humanities building at Temple
University was designed at 13 stories. Uh The dean was sitting in his
office, the building went up and they put the flag on, on the Christmas
tree to top off the building. He sat through County and there were only 12
stories. And so he went over to the site and said, what's the problem here
? This is nothing, nothing. We, we, we were over budget. So we cut a floor.
There was a meeting of whose floor had been cut. Um, who was this foreign
languages? And they said, no, no. Um, we, uh, we had the 13th floor.
There's no 13th floor up there. I'm sorry, you're, you're out. No, it's
gotta be somebody else. It's one of the middle floors is gone. You see a
gap in that building. Uh This conversation went on for, for about two
hours and it had to happen because the state didn't have the money. And so
they reduced it by one floor. Um And the English Department ended up with
the 13th floor. It was very nice. We had great views all of Philadelphia,
but uh we were supposed to be elsewhere in the building. I don't know how
that happened. We're talking about buildings when Sam Sam came as dean and
I became associate dean. One of the projects that was under way was in
addition to the physical science complex and they really, some of the
people that were involved in that really wanted a planetarium in it. And
um uh the Adler Planetarium in Chicago had apparently decided to move to
higher technology and they were going to give us or maybe sell us for a
very modest price. The projector that projected the images on the domed
ceiling of the planetarium.
Um And yet when we looked at the plans that called for an arc of a certain
size, it would have occupied not one floor but several floors or perhaps
even 2, 2.5 floors. And yet the architect's plans showed the planetarium
as being a single floor. And so we could all envision this planetarium
that went like this and then across everything would be out of place. But
nobody seemed to have thought of that. Uh Just crazy stuff that uh a
person runs into. Are there any questions from anybody here? I thought you
said you were president that 19 month period and not enter a president? Oh
, I thought I was but Eileen didn't. Um because
uh I don't remember the numbers Russ I think was 11th president and she
described Lati cos 12th and I said, what about me? She said interims don't
count. So for a time I call myself 11.5. That's what I was telling you in
the uh in the building. There are these portraits of presidents. You don't
see me over there. Um What happened was they took a Polaroid picture of me
did not use the crayon on it. And so it all faded away. It's gone, but I
was the only president eight months or whatever. Um Yeah, it's just
interims don't come. So that's the title of the story that I thought I was
the interim at Arizona at the South Florida for one year when uh president
retired and then um
got offered the presidency at the University of Florida. But I had told
too many Gainesville jokes and I just didn't want to risk it. I, I got the
, I got the first press conference, something I never learned to keep my
mouth shut. I, I used to have a wall plaque. I don't have any more. Said I
was never hurt by the things I didn't say. Now, I should remember that
because this reporter said now that you're here, are you gonna become a
Tampa Bay football fan? And I said, I've been a Green Bay Packer fan all
my life and I don't think I could develop an interest in minor league
football. Um Well, come on people. That's a joke. That's just uh uh
headline in the paper, new, new president called Tampa Bay Minor League
team. Uh The only benefit that came out of that. There was a Battle of the
Bays. You when Tampa Bay hosted Green Bay and one of the guys gave me two
tickets to go see the Battle of the Bays. Tampa Bay won. I have to say
that was unexpected. Where old did they send you? I was a board carrier.
Oh, you were a lot, a lot. So I got to go to Hawaii first time. I spent my
21st birthday on Oahu. Didn't tell anybody it was my birthday. Um Got to
Japan, Okinawa, the Philippines. So spent a lot of time with our carrier.
Um And I just, as I said, I just finished a book about that period of time.
I went in planning to make it a career and got discouraged. Um And I have
an equation that you may not like, but I think the Marine Corps, maybe the
Army Navy, I know the Marine Corps is like the Catholic church. Um the
institution itself is right.
But its servants are not. And it's not the church that got all the sexual
misbehavior. It was a few priests and the Marine Corps has got any big
organization. It's got a lot of time servers and people who, um, lost
their energy years ago and forgot why they are there and they're not doing
the job that they said they would do. Um And so I got discouraged at that.
Uh I watched, um, a major with 18 years get kicked out because the Marine
Corps was saving money and they got anybody who didn't have a permanent
rank, they let him go. So here he is eight. a 40 year old unemployed
helicopter pilot. Where is he gonna go? Um So there was no career there
for me and everybody, there are two of us in the 60 man squadron who had
not been to college. And so I, uh I knew I was missing something, whatever
that was. So I just wanted to do what they had, that's a pretty amazing
statistic two out of 60. That hadn't they? Many, we had uh, seven or eight
academy graduates. Um Marine Corps still has Mustangs now. And then, uh,
enlisted, I was 19. I got commissioned at 19, got my, went to my first
duty station in California and the colonel called me and said, Lieutenant
, you got a problem in your record. Your record is wrong here says you're
19. And I said, well, I am. He said, no, you can't be an officer until
you're 21. I said, apparently you can, um, cause I am, he said, God's sake.
Boy, don't you tell anybody that
that's, he gave me a nice collateral duty. And the NCO mess we had
underage guys drinking. He said, clear that up. I said, I said, Colonel,
I'm 19. He said they don't know that. Um, what's the name of the book at
the moment? If uh poetry doesn't change, it's called spit.
Um It's big. I mean, it's 100 and 20,000 words. It's just way too big. I
may have to cut it down some, but uh it's about a three month period when
uh there is a foreign maneuver when the Marine Corps goes to the
Philippines for a maneuver. And so it's, I, I think I learned something in
the middle of it that, that a lot of marines won't like I've given it to
four marines to instead of having um some famous author, write me a blurb
on the jacket. I gave it to four marines and said, give me a couple of
sentences. What do you think of the book? And one of them has answered me.
Uh The others are not gonna like it, I think because they are both
officers and one of the points in the book was um the, the real Corp, the
real Marine Corps is still there among enlisted men. I don't think it's
there among officers. I think the officers are time servers. They're there
for the, the good career and the possibility to go on the board of an
insurance company later. And just, uh, it just, it just didn't feel right
anymore. And so that's very old fashioned and corny. But uh I had a
executive officer like a provost of our squadron, a man named Blanco White
, wonderful name. Um, he had been a flying corporal and he got
commissioned um with a temporary grade and he had 18 years and I mentioned
him a minute ago, 18 years in, but his permanent rank was warrant officer.
And so they reverted him to his permanent rank and that took away his
flight pay and um, he couldn't retire. He just left after 18 years and he
had 30,000 hours. He'd flown in four wars. I mean, this,
this is the kind of professional guardian soldier that you want, I think.
And uh, and they didn't and the bureaucracy of the Marine Corps didn't
want him anymore. All of the people in the squadron wanted him. But there
is, um, there's a Board of Regents up there running things.
You write fiction. Uh, what, what do you like to read? And do you have any
favorite authors? Yeah. Um, and now only because of the action, Lee Child
is a very tough, very quick stuff. Um, do you know, you know Lee Child?
His hero is Jack Reacher. Jack Reacher is 65 £240 and was played by Tom
Cruise in the movie. That must have been Jack Reacher when he was a Cub
scout. I know. What, what are they doing anyway. Um, yeah, and I have
among the literary figures, um, Mark Twain, you knew that, you know that
and there are two books you should read every year and one of them is
Walden. Uh, and one of them is Moby Dick and they're both hard, hard, hard
work and you need to read them every year. Um, and I don't, but I do, I
read Walden probably every 15 months. 18. Really? Yeah. Wow. Is, it is, uh
, a whole course in writing all of the Greek tropes, all of the devices of
literature. Um, Thone New and also a great sense of humor in there. You
don't think of him this way. The stuffy guy. But for instance, his first
book a week in a Concord in Merrimack was published at at 700 copies,
didn't sell, publishers said come get it. So he came and picked up all the
old copies and took them home. And he told somebody once he said I have
1000 books in my library. 700 of which I wrote myself. I like that. We had
a speaker at a su one time. Um um His name is escaping me right now. Uh uh
David Hammer. Uh Yeah, he's, he's, he wrote books on starting back in
Vietnam and so on. But anyway, he was talking about um the OJ Simpson
trial and the fact that a woman that had dated OJ Faye Resnick used the
publicity and so on to write two books uh and make some money on the whole
thing. One was OJ and me and I don't know what the other one was, but he
said she had actually achieved a literary first. She had written more
books than she'd read.
Ok. I have, I have one OJ story, Steve Lloyd, whom you name arranged for
me to play at? Uh of course in Los Angeles do on Bel Air. No, no, no.
Where did, where did Tiger play? I mean, um the day, the day of the murder
, uh OJ played golf. I, I was supposed to tee off at eight and I was late
getting there and four guys are on the tee already and they let me tee off
ahead of them and one of them was OJ Simpson and I played the course, the
head of the, the day that he didn't kill his wife. Um, one of the things
in life, I guess. But, uh, so I got to meet him big. Uh, I didn't remember
them being that big when I saw him on television. Big head, big shoulders
, big body there. Um, but so I got to see him that day and who would know
? That's right.