WEBVTT 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:11.439 Today is January 15th 2010. And it's my honor and privilege to be the 00:00:16.318 --> 00:00:21.096 interviewer for, uh Joe Shahabeer. And uh this is for the A SU Retirees 00:00:21.129 --> 00:00:26.166 Association, uh Living History Video Pro Project. And uh Joe, will we 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:30.227 start by having you introduce yourself so that we do a video clip that 00:00:30.260 --> 00:00:35.256 they can take that out with you saying your name and yeah, uh I'm Joe, she 00:00:35.289 --> 00:00:42.801 backer. Uh, and uh I'm pleased to have Elmer Gooding as my interviewer. It 00:00:42.834 --> 00:00:47.112 couldn't be any better and I couldn't be any more qualified to do the job 00:00:47.145 --> 00:00:51.311 that he's going to do on me, whatever he's going to do. Uh, uh, you, if 00:00:51.344 --> 00:00:58.112 you wanna know, I'm 90 years old. Uh I retired from a SU when I was um 88 00:00:58.145 --> 00:01:04.561 years old. No, no, 78 years old. And, uh I have, um, been at a SU from 00:01:04.594 --> 00:01:06.861 1963 00:01:06.894 --> 00:01:14.894 to uh 1988 25 years. And that's a start anyway. Ok. Well, why don't we 00:01:16.278 --> 00:01:20.135 start a little further back and tell us a little bit about your early life 00:01:20.168 --> 00:01:24.165 and some of the other things that happened, uh, in your development uh 00:01:24.198 --> 00:01:27.456 prior to coming to the issue, then uh then we'll get back to the issue. 00:01:27.489 --> 00:01:33.717 Very good. Um It's not difficult for me to describe my background because 00:01:33.750 --> 00:01:38.656 in, in a sense I've had a very, very broad and very interesting background 00:01:38.689 --> 00:01:45.727 of life. Uh When I graduated from uh junior high school, I had begun at 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:52.275 that time at age 18 to do some acrobatics and gymnastics, even to the 00:01:52.308 --> 00:01:56.566 degree that later in my life, in addition to my regular work as a 00:01:56.599 --> 00:02:00.316 university administrator, that's what I was Elmer university administrator 00:02:00.349 --> 00:02:06.697 from 1946 until I retired. Then in 1988. 00:02:06.730 --> 00:02:12.177 Uh so I was had a side issue in life in addition to being uh I can say 00:02:12.210 --> 00:02:15.786 this with a little bit of uh humility, a pretty good student. I was 00:02:15.819 --> 00:02:20.686 academically, always uh sort of at the top of the class and so on in the 00:02:20.719 --> 00:02:25.975 schools, I went to junior high school high school and then college having 00:02:26.008 --> 00:02:32.517 said that part of my life is made up not only of family and of Arizona 00:02:32.550 --> 00:02:39.416 State University for 25 years, but also of being involved very, very 00:02:39.449 --> 00:02:44.656 directly and seriously in gymnastics and acrobatics as a side issue of my 00:02:44.689 --> 00:02:49.517 life. It's one of the reasons that at my age, I'm still in relatively good 00:02:49.550 --> 00:02:54.626 shape except for this broken foot, which you can't get on here. But I do 00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:59.856 have a broken foot today in any event. If that's enough to do, I was gonna 00:02:59.889 --> 00:03:02.957 have you said you're talking of about uh your acrobatic skills? I was 00:03:02.990 --> 00:03:07.427 gonna have you describe this uh photograph that uh that we have. Yes, with 00:03:07.460 --> 00:03:11.906 you and your friend. Yeah. This, this photograph was taken in Hawaii while 00:03:11.939 --> 00:03:16.616 I was in the Marine Corps active duty in 1944. 00:03:16.649 --> 00:03:20.487 And the man on the bottom is Al Mater. He was a very, very famous acrobat 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:26.066 , professional acrobat. And I met him on the beach there and we were 00:03:26.099 --> 00:03:32.047 worked out and this is a diamond head and this is uh like Waikiki Beach in 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:37.196 Hawaii. And then you're the one on top stan, I'm on the top on one arm. 00:03:37.229 --> 00:03:40.577 That's amazing. And back to the earlier comment I made when I started 00:03:40.610 --> 00:03:46.225 doing and learning uh gymnastics and acrobatics even before college and 00:03:46.258 --> 00:03:53.436 high school and junior high. Um I, we lived in Philadelphia and near where 00:03:53.469 --> 00:03:58.085 we lived was a theater called the Carman Theater. And the Carmen Theater 00:03:58.118 --> 00:04:04.186 would have vaudeville show as well as a movie changing every week. And 00:04:04.219 --> 00:04:09.987 always each week one of the acts would be some kind of an acrobatic act. 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:15.126 And my dad who saw a background interest in me early in my life used to 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:19.976 take us to the theater and then we'd go backstage and say, here's, here's 00:04:20.009 --> 00:04:24.697 my son, Joe, tell him what, what, you know what acrobatics is about. And 00:04:24.730 --> 00:04:28.426 uh that's a little bit of a background that led in a sense to, and to your 00:04:28.459 --> 00:04:33.555 question, Elmer, this fellow. And I Al Motter and I, during World War Two 00:04:33.588 --> 00:04:40.127 , we did a hand balancing act which you saw a copy of, um, in the evenings 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.575 while he was in the Navy and I was in the Marine Corps, uh, Pearl Harbor, 00:04:43.608 --> 00:04:49.395 by the way, lo location. And, uh, we were allowed to, uh, by our bosses to 00:04:49.428 --> 00:04:53.817 take time off in the evening. As long as we got back at uh 0 600 hours in 00:04:53.850 --> 00:04:58.145 the morning to begin work. And we would be, we would actually, we were 00:04:58.178 --> 00:05:02.226 actually paid for each of those performances and we would travel all over 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:05.967 those islands. The Hawaiian Islands, which at that time, by the way, was 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:11.705 not a state, but this was the territory of Hawaii at that time. Having 00:05:11.738 --> 00:05:15.187 said that that's, that's what that picture is about. As I recall, I think 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:18.586 your father was very physically fit too. So you had, you had a good 00:05:18.619 --> 00:05:24.887 example. And Elmer has met my dad. Uh he lived in 95 years of age and he 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:31.325 was a professional boxer. In fact, he was within two bouts of being the 00:05:31.358 --> 00:05:38.257 lightweight world champion in 1926. He was that good. He had uh so many 00:05:38.290 --> 00:05:42.796 good bouts. He would had a very powerful punch and so he knocked out most 00:05:42.829 --> 00:05:48.697 of his opponents, but he had a more than 100 and 90 fights in his life, 00:05:48.730 --> 00:05:54.416 amateur and professional. And he only lost four of them and they were not 00:05:54.449 --> 00:05:59.507 by knockouts, but they were by, uh, uh, the judge is making a decision. He 00:05:59.540 --> 00:06:04.197 was very special, very special guy. When I saw this picture, I, uh, 00:06:04.230 --> 00:06:08.656 recalled a, uh, birthday party of yours where you did a handstand and 00:06:08.689 --> 00:06:12.555 click your heels, uh, quite a number of times you wanna tell us about that. 00:06:12.588 --> 00:06:16.217 Well, ok, that's, that's easy. That's easy to brag about because I'm 00:06:16.250 --> 00:06:21.776 still here to brag all the thing. But from about the age of uh 15 or 16, 00:06:21.809 --> 00:06:25.586 because I was interested in this hand balancing business that I was 00:06:25.619 --> 00:06:30.217 learning about. Uh at this Carmen Theater group of people, I would stand 00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:36.687 on my hands every day, every day in the world and straddle my legs upside 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.236 down. Uh, for the year that I was then celebrating when I was 16, it would 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:47.015 be 16. And I did that continuously every day no matter where I was because 00:06:47.048 --> 00:06:50.055 I could do it in my bedroom, I could do it in the living room like and, 00:06:50.088 --> 00:06:54.836 and my wife Gerald knows I get to almost any other room. But uh I would 00:06:54.869 --> 00:07:01.377 count my age and I did that until I was 82 years old. And then ger and my 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:05.127 wife is involved in this anecdote. 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.226 I went to the doctor because I was having problem with the back, lower 00:07:09.259 --> 00:07:14.645 back. And also with my knee and also I had three heart attacks and D Gern 00:07:14.678 --> 00:07:18.127 was with me during that time at those visits and she heard the doctor, 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:22.717 both of them, the cardiologist, as well as the neurologist say to me, 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:28.967 standing on your hands is not doing your health any good. Having said that 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:33.726 that was in 1982. Approximately time frame there. No. What she's gonna 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.305 correct me. What time? 92 00:07:37.338 --> 00:07:42.015 0, 92. That's, that's right. It was 92. But uh it was 92 because we've 00:07:42.048 --> 00:07:45.676 only been married 16 years. So it couldn't have been 82. Having said, 00:07:45.709 --> 00:07:51.026 having sorry about that sweetheart, having said all that. Uh I therefore 00:07:51.059 --> 00:07:56.937 have not been on my hands. Uh I know I can do it but the boss would say no 00:07:56.970 --> 00:08:00.455 , I know, I know you can do it too because I witnessed it and I was so 00:08:00.488 --> 00:08:03.895 impressed because I knew good and well that I couldn't begin to do it. So 00:08:03.928 --> 00:08:08.666 , uh Joe, tell us a little bit about your education. How you came up 00:08:08.699 --> 00:08:14.305 through the uh area? Oh, I graduated from high school at Northeast High 00:08:14.338 --> 00:08:21.486 School in Philadelphia in 1938. From there. I went into Temple University 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:27.217 as a full ride, gymnastics scholarship recipient. And that was where I did 00:08:27.250 --> 00:08:31.106 my undergraduate degree in accounting in accounting and it had something 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:36.186 to do with uh why I'm here today. Really? That, that uh accounting major. 00:08:36.219 --> 00:08:40.677 So I graduated with an accounting degree in 1943. 00:08:40.710 --> 00:08:46.586 And I joined the Marine Corps in 1942 while I was still in college. And 00:08:46.619 --> 00:08:50.696 when I went into active duty, within one week of the day, I graduated from 00:08:50.729 --> 00:08:57.515 Temple University in June of 1943. I went to Paris Island for boot camp 00:08:57.548 --> 00:09:03.246 and then from there became a machine gun platoon officer. That was my role 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.417 and I went as a replacement for the people who had been lost in the Marine 00:09:07.450 --> 00:09:13.547 Corps in Tarawa. That was in November of 1943 time frame around the Panama 00:09:13.580 --> 00:09:19.307 Canal to Pearl Harbor. And when we arrived at Pearl Harbor, that ship was 00:09:19.340 --> 00:09:26.157 full of marines. Uh all all marines officers and the they took 15 of us 00:09:26.190 --> 00:09:30.586 off of the ship to interview us at Pearl Harbor who had had either 00:09:30.619 --> 00:09:36.236 engineering, mathematics or accounting as a major. And if those 15 00:09:36.269 --> 00:09:41.836 officers, young, all young officers, uh uh they then selected three of us. 00:09:41.869 --> 00:09:47.407 Uh And from those three, they selected one to be leaving the ship and to 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:52.186 be on the headquarters of Fleet Marine Force Pacific on the logistical 00:09:52.219 --> 00:09:57.287 planning of all of the landings that we made. And as a result of that, it 00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:02.167 was and it had nothing to do with me or I and it was a, it was a crossroad 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:06.635 of life that I had accounting that they did. They were looking for figure 00:10:06.668 --> 00:10:10.986 punchers is what we were, they didn't have uh computers as we know them 00:10:11.019 --> 00:10:16.476 today in that day. And having said that uh uh I therefore was at many 00:10:16.509 --> 00:10:21.157 places and in the landings, but always on the command ship with the 00:10:21.190 --> 00:10:26.356 generals and the admirals. I never as a marine had to sleep on the beach 00:10:26.389 --> 00:10:32.525 and the places that we landed. Iwo, Jima, Okinawa. Uh uh all of those in 00:10:32.558 --> 00:10:37.157 the Mariana Islands and then later, even in China, because of that 00:10:37.190 --> 00:10:41.206 particular background of mine who was interested, I had nothing to do with 00:10:41.239 --> 00:10:47.356 that decision. That was a decision of fact that in contrast to desire. So 00:10:47.389 --> 00:10:52.456 then you went on with your uh education. Yeah. Oh yes. That, that, that, 00:10:52.489 --> 00:10:56.996 so it was Temple University. And then after Temple, I was on the staff at 00:10:57.029 --> 00:11:03.307 UCL A for 10 years as a lecturer and also uh as a student both uh uh in 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:08.996 business management. And that's where I did my master's degree in 1952. 00:11:09.029 --> 00:11:15.706 And my doctor finished in 1958 phd in business management. By the way, I 00:11:15.739 --> 00:11:21.625 was the first man to receive from the California system of colleges, a uh 00:11:21.658 --> 00:11:28.116 phd degree in business just uh turned out to be that way 1958. And then 00:11:28.149 --> 00:11:31.826 from there you went on and had several different administrative positions 00:11:31.859 --> 00:11:35.917 before you got here. And then from Yeah. And then from there, the next, 00:11:35.950 --> 00:11:42.476 the next thing I had was a I was for one year uh uh office manager of 00:11:42.509 --> 00:11:47.427 Western States Pro Products Company in Los Angeles. And from there I 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:55.460 stayed on with UCL A and left UCL A in 1959 to become Elmer, the uh uh 00:11:56.229 --> 00:12:02.135 extension division head of Business for, for four years at um University 00:12:02.168 --> 00:12:06.696 of Wisconsin. And it was while I was there that the Dean of the College of 00:12:06.729 --> 00:12:12.275 Business in a national meeting from uh Arizona State University, his name 00:12:12.308 --> 00:12:16.547 is G home, not J Home or Durham. That was the president uh Glenn Overman. 00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:21.537 He interviewed me and asked me to come to be the chairman of the 00:12:21.570 --> 00:12:27.167 management department in the College of Business. And that was in 1963. 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:31.395 And that's when I came to at Arizona State University. Tell me about the 00:12:31.428 --> 00:12:34.755 management department at the time that you came, not only the management 00:12:34.788 --> 00:12:39.496 department, but the number of students at Arizona State University at that 00:12:39.529 --> 00:12:44.015 time, by the way, it had just recently become a university, it was a 00:12:44.048 --> 00:12:48.417 normal college or, and that's where the one street out here is named after 00:12:48.450 --> 00:12:53.167 normal. It was a normal school. And any of that, the uh answer to that 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:57.917 question is that uh the student population at that time was a little less 00:12:57.950 --> 00:13:03.177 than 17,000 approximately. And I came as chairman of the management 00:13:03.210 --> 00:13:08.797 department uh in the College of Business. I was in that role, Elmer for 00:13:08.830 --> 00:13:12.177 two years when the president of the University G Homer Durham called me 00:13:12.210 --> 00:13:16.895 one day to his office and said, uh we need to have a replacement. And 00:13:16.928 --> 00:13:21.907 among our vice presidential staff, he, he said, I, I'd like you to uh be 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:25.047 that. And that happened in 19 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:33.080 uh 95 and for five years, I was pre you know, I said 95. Thank you, Dave. 00:13:33.389 --> 00:13:37.057 Thank you very much for keeping me straight. And um but the two of you 00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:42.177 straighten me out. And then by the way, at my present age, I do have some 00:13:42.210 --> 00:13:47.917 what we call near term memory loss. So forgive me, you're doing wonderful 00:13:47.950 --> 00:13:51.125 you're doing, having said now I'll get back to where I was and I'll use 00:13:51.158 --> 00:13:54.366 the, the right. So Homer Derm asked you to become one of his vice 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:57.417 presidents. Yes, that's right. And it was vice president for special 00:13:57.450 --> 00:14:02.736 Services. We have. Then at that time G Homer Dham was the president. We 00:14:02.769 --> 00:14:07.037 had a vice president, academics, we had a vice president for Business and 00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:12.375 then a vice president for quote, all others as it was an ad mixture of 13 00:14:12.408 --> 00:14:17.336 functions of the university. And I, I was in that particular position for 00:14:17.369 --> 00:14:23.015 five years. So that included uh extension and summer sessions. And yes, 00:14:23.048 --> 00:14:26.895 I'm not sure what all else, but, well, I can, I can sort of remember them. 00:14:26.928 --> 00:14:32.797 Yeah, there were the, the dean of students, the Dean of Women, the Dean 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:39.356 of Men, the um uh placement services of the university, the Kaet channel 00:14:39.389 --> 00:14:46.927 we now know is channel eight of the uh uh the Student Union. Uh And I did 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.956 , I think I did say placement services uh and a total of 13 different 00:14:52.989 --> 00:14:56.686 functions. And Elmer, it's very interesting because of your background 00:14:56.719 --> 00:15:02.717 also at that level of administration of a su that within a year of that 00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:06.037 particular assignment that I moved from the chairman of the management 00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:11.547 department and the College of Business to the in the in the administration 00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:19.076 of the university. Uh It came to me as a, let's say, a well trained person 00:15:19.109 --> 00:15:26.586 in management per se uh that we ought to narrow the, the uh actually 00:15:26.619 --> 00:15:31.297 expand the vice presidential walls. So I recommend it to pre President 00:15:31.330 --> 00:15:34.996 Durham that we have one thing we should do, we should have a vice 00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:39.736 president for student services that meant to take Dean of men, dean of 00:15:39.769 --> 00:15:43.186 women, dean of students. And that would be at the pre vice presidential 00:15:43.219 --> 00:15:51.219 level and that's what happened. And um I was busy doing a quite, quite a 00:15:51.710 --> 00:15:55.116 different kind of setting of interviews with people and working with 00:15:55.149 --> 00:15:58.936 people. That's a small number of administrators for an institution of that 00:15:58.969 --> 00:16:04.005 size. And absolutely, absolutely. And uh Elmer knows this from his role as 00:16:04.038 --> 00:16:10.226 the vice presidential level that you, you do not have a span of control 00:16:10.259 --> 00:16:14.836 that wide in doing the job. And that was the reason that uh that we made 00:16:14.869 --> 00:16:18.226 some changes. Well, you, you offered good advice and it obviously was 00:16:18.259 --> 00:16:24.645 followed. Yes. So that's good. Three, that VP job that you took uh in 1967 00:16:24.678 --> 00:16:30.265 for Gr Dra, you said it was special services. Were the athletics under you 00:16:30.298 --> 00:16:34.936 ? No, no, the athletic program came under. In this particular case, it 00:16:34.969 --> 00:16:39.515 came under the Business Vice President then. But there is also an academic 00:16:39.548 --> 00:16:44.917 vice president under under whose jurisdiction, all of the schools and 00:16:44.950 --> 00:16:50.657 colleges reported and administered. So the answer to your question and it 00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:54.836 had to do with the fact that it was athletics was then a very important 00:16:54.869 --> 00:16:58.287 financial aspect of the university. And the and the Business Vice 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:06.320 President had that under his role. So Gilbert Katy was the guy and he has 00:17:06.358 --> 00:17:09.117 his name on them all out here. How come you don't have your name on a ball 00:17:09.150 --> 00:17:14.535 ? I was not as good a politician as Gilbert. 00:17:14.568 --> 00:17:18.847 Now, on the other hand, Gilbert Katy, he was our, he was the Vice 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:23.075 President for Business Affairs when, when I came in as vice president for 00:17:23.108 --> 00:17:30.075 Special Services, Gilbert Katy uh did so much for the University College 00:17:30.108 --> 00:17:36.505 Avenue, which was, is now Katie Moll uh was named after him later and he, 00:17:36.538 --> 00:17:41.345 he, he was gone and the at least that he had died before they named, he 00:17:41.378 --> 00:17:45.384 didn't know that he was named after him. But Gilbert Katy was incidentally 00:17:45.417 --> 00:17:50.776 a very fine administrator. In addition, David to the the fact that the 00:17:50.809 --> 00:17:54.805 funding, the funding for the athletic programs were one were one of his 00:17:54.838 --> 00:18:00.367 budgeted functions. He also had the budget for Grady Damage Auditorium. 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:06.065 That was one of the other things that he and by the way, the husband of 00:18:06.098 --> 00:18:10.986 Grady Damage Auditorium. At that, excuse me, the husband of the director 00:18:11.019 --> 00:18:16.246 was a man who was married to the lady that reported to me for the student 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:23.795 union. Schooler. Yes. Schooler. Yes. And, and the way that's, that was 00:18:23.828 --> 00:18:28.147 very interesting to have um a husband and wife team, two major functions 00:18:28.180 --> 00:18:32.217 of the university, one great Gamage Auditorium and the other, the student 00:18:32.250 --> 00:18:36.176 Union. I want to point out to the folks if you didn't get the point that 00:18:36.209 --> 00:18:40.897 was just made in se David is now answering, asking me these questions of 00:18:40.930 --> 00:18:45.035 his right. Thank you. That's David Chancellor during the time I was here 00:18:45.068 --> 00:18:53.068 at a su let's say 25 years. I would be a speaker on some topic for which I 00:18:53.969 --> 00:18:58.877 quote, had a good reputation. It would include, for example, time 00:18:58.910 --> 00:19:05.075 management, uh uh lifelong learning, communications, university 00:19:05.108 --> 00:19:09.176 administration, small business administrator. These were topics that I can 00:19:09.209 --> 00:19:14.956 say with some little bit of uh humility, had good training and background 00:19:14.989 --> 00:19:19.857 on. Uh I would be a speaker at least once or twice every week for all 00:19:19.890 --> 00:19:22.285 those 2525 00:19:22.318 --> 00:19:27.877 years. That's over 1000 speeches somewhere. And what uh the one of them, 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:31.867 one of the topics was I was in charge of the executive programs for uh 00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:36.256 that reported to my desk at one time. But then later, as a faculty member 00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:41.906 , I was involved in giving those subjects. I would be a speaker at Madison 00:19:41.939 --> 00:19:49.176 Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin Philadelphia all over the country uh 00:19:49.209 --> 00:19:54.357 on a one, once or twice a week. Uh Unless these are major, let me give you 00:19:54.390 --> 00:19:56.847 one example, 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:03.686 one of the finest people that um uh related in part to Arizona State, but 00:20:03.719 --> 00:20:10.795 certainly to the state of Arizona is the um uh oh, this is terrible. He 00:20:10.828 --> 00:20:17.446 was scheduled to be a speaker at Gray G Auditorium to be a major speaker. 00:20:17.479 --> 00:20:23.627 Full house sold out the full house. This name of come to me in a moment 00:20:23.660 --> 00:20:31.035 and one hour before he was scheduled to Pete, we get a call that the plane 00:20:31.068 --> 00:20:35.256 in which he had been scheduled to come on had been held up somewhere and 00:20:35.289 --> 00:20:40.315 we needed to have somebody here, the, here the audience is there. So uh 00:20:40.348 --> 00:20:43.545 President D called me to his office and said, Joey said, I'd like to have 00:20:43.578 --> 00:20:48.805 you uh replace him. 00:20:48.838 --> 00:20:53.016 Somebody like Peter Drucker. Oh, it was something uh uh for the state of 00:20:53.049 --> 00:20:59.196 Arizona. And even in a more important name. Oh, who was the, who ran for 00:20:59.229 --> 00:21:04.526 president and didn't make it Barry Gold, gold. It was Barry Gold. I'm 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:10.746 sorry. So I, I was a quote, a last minute deal and so what I did is I just 00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:15.406 took my notes on lifelong learning and there were 3500 people in that room 00:21:15.439 --> 00:21:19.406 that, like what I said, that's great. I can't imagine the pressure you 00:21:19.439 --> 00:21:24.147 must have been. Well, I guess not the, no, not really pressure, but it was 00:21:24.180 --> 00:21:28.285 just, it was on quite a, an honor to, to be, you know, to then be 00:21:28.318 --> 00:21:32.107 introduced by somebody as a replacement for Barry Goldberg. Forgive me for 00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:36.436 my mental. Well, I do recall from my years in the dean's office that you 00:21:36.469 --> 00:21:39.736 were one of the very popular uh presenters at the Center for executive 00:21:39.769 --> 00:21:43.545 development and all the executive development seminars that were held. And 00:21:43.578 --> 00:21:46.676 uh you were, you're much sought after during that time. Thank you and very 00:21:46.709 --> 00:21:52.285 busy. Yeah. What, what is it that, that caused you to choose a su uh when 00:21:52.318 --> 00:21:57.906 uh when Dean Oman uh that was, that's, it's a good question. Um I had no 00:21:57.939 --> 00:22:02.176 reason to leave Madison Wisconsin, which was the University of Wisconsin 00:22:02.209 --> 00:22:06.805 where it was. I liked the, the place I like the, the university. I didn't 00:22:06.838 --> 00:22:11.347 like the winter weather, but that's another issue. Uh But, but that, that 00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:17.887 in part answers your question. Uh The, the decision that I made to accept 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:25.196 this request by Dean Overman to come was done in February of 1963. 00:22:25.229 --> 00:22:33.035 Well, then I left now this was yes, February of 1963. I left Madison 00:22:33.068 --> 00:22:38.956 Wisconsin flew to Tempe Ariz, well, actually flew to Phoenix and then got 00:22:38.989 --> 00:22:43.795 on the uh uh bus to come to Arizona State University. They were waiting to 00:22:43.828 --> 00:22:50.476 meet me by the way with the bus and I got off of the plane. I had left 00:22:50.509 --> 00:22:56.785 Madison Wisconsin and the degrees of temperature were below 30 it was, um 00:22:56.818 --> 00:23:04.756 , 20 degrees of Fahrenheit and I walk off the plane and it was like 75. 00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:10.085 Beautiful in part. That was an answer. It's not the, uh, the other is 00:23:10.118 --> 00:23:15.686 that I did, um, I did, uh review the College of Business. I said it, give 00:23:15.719 --> 00:23:19.416 it at the time before I made the decision even to come. And it had a very 00:23:19.449 --> 00:23:25.565 , very good reputation. Do you recall, um, how big the college was at that 00:23:25.598 --> 00:23:30.006 time? And how large the management department was? I do, we had at that 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:36.065 time, 14 members of the staff. So my role as chairman of the management 00:23:36.098 --> 00:23:41.176 department was quote the boss of 14 other faculty members. And obviously, 00:23:41.209 --> 00:23:45.266 that has changed tremendously since then. Having said that, uh, it was a 00:23:45.299 --> 00:23:49.666 small school but also a very good school. It had some very, very famous, 00:23:49.699 --> 00:23:55.746 uh, faculty members who were world, uh, not, not only world known but uh 00:23:55.779 --> 00:24:00.627 nationally known at that time. Now, I understand that, uh in addition to 00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:04.486 your academic work and all that you continued active in the Marine Corps 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:11.676 Reserve. Yes, I was in the Marine Corps and Reserve. And active duty from 00:24:11.709 --> 00:24:16.295 1942 until 1975 00:24:16.328 --> 00:24:23.097 to actually a total of some 37 years. That's about the number. And, uh, 00:24:23.130 --> 00:24:27.276 that would allow me, that is, the university would allow any person in 00:24:27.309 --> 00:24:32.387 that kind of reserve decision, uh, to take a month off in the summer, uh, 00:24:32.420 --> 00:24:37.387 to go to active duty for training or whatever. And that's, I kept that up 00:24:37.420 --> 00:24:41.446 on a continuing basis and you continued your interest in gymnastics and 00:24:41.479 --> 00:24:46.147 acrobatics. During that same time in gymnastics, I was a judge and I was, 00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:51.291 I was a judge for many years of high school and college and try all over 00:24:51.324 --> 00:24:55.651 the country on that role. Uh But with respect to the other business where 00:24:55.684 --> 00:24:59.361 I was doing an act and a hand balancing act with several different 00:24:59.394 --> 00:25:06.131 partners, uh I continued that on an a very interesting basis. My role at 00:25:06.164 --> 00:25:10.821 the university had for me, a given salary, whatever that may have been at 00:25:10.854 --> 00:25:16.785 any given year or time would be one in which I would be, make more money, 00:25:16.818 --> 00:25:22.305 more money, more dollars in a given week if I did two or three acts or per 00:25:22.338 --> 00:25:27.305 performances than I did for my whole university salary for that week. It's 00:25:27.338 --> 00:25:31.756 amazing. It's amazing. And then, and again, it was a side issue of my life 00:25:31.789 --> 00:25:35.717 , but an important. But while you were doing all this and I understand you 00:25:35.750 --> 00:25:40.647 were also a president of the US Sports acrobatics. Yes, sports acrobatics 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:46.156 is like gymnastics except it doesn't use any equipment. It's you and I 00:25:46.189 --> 00:25:52.045 Elmer or Linda, you, you and I doing what we call men's pairs. Linda and 00:25:52.078 --> 00:25:56.717 Joe doing what we call uh mixed pairs. And there are six different events 00:25:56.750 --> 00:26:02.575 , men's pairs, women's trios, men's fours. Just give you an idea. And I 00:26:02.608 --> 00:26:07.325 was one of the original founders of that for the, for the United States. 00:26:07.358 --> 00:26:12.016 It was called United States Sports Acrobatics Federation. And I was active 00:26:12.049 --> 00:26:16.347 in that on a continuing basis over many years. And that organization still 00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:21.446 goes on today. It's still, it's still active today. What we have missed. 00:26:21.479 --> 00:26:25.166 We, we had hoped this is very interesting. It's on a completely different 00:26:25.199 --> 00:26:31.026 topic but it relates to it's just part of you. OK, thank you. Uh We who 00:26:31.059 --> 00:26:36.256 were in the administration of sports acrobatics for the United States and 00:26:36.289 --> 00:26:41.686 also members of ISA the International Federation of Sports acrobatics have 00:26:41.719 --> 00:26:49.719 tried for years to have that sport become an Olympic sport. But there was 00:26:49.959 --> 00:26:55.045 the people who in, in particularly in eastern Europe, who had their 00:26:55.078 --> 00:27:01.226 gymnastics people uh earning medals and earning lifetime awards for being 00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:06.196 great. A and they were the greatest acrobats at that time. Uh They uh they 00:27:06.229 --> 00:27:12.387 would not allow sports acrobatics to come into the na international scene 00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:17.887 because it sports acrobatics put out each time they had an international 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:24.545 championship, 75 medals. Remember I mentioned there were the men's pairs 00:27:24.578 --> 00:27:28.575 mixed pairs, all these and then they would have uh gold, silver, bronze 00:27:28.608 --> 00:27:35.016 and so a total of 75 medals. And this was too many as far as let's say, 00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:39.976 gymnastics strength was concerned on the international level. The net 00:27:40.009 --> 00:27:46.506 result of that is that as of today, the only member of sports acrobatics 00:27:46.539 --> 00:27:51.956 as a sport, uh which is at the international level is trampoline. And the 00:27:51.989 --> 00:27:54.847 reason, and there's a reason for that the trampoline people 00:27:54.880 --> 00:28:00.217 internationally have more power to, to move forward with it and they just 00:28:00.250 --> 00:28:04.436 kept the other one out of the, of the and it still is not it, meaning 00:28:04.469 --> 00:28:10.785 sports acrobatics is still not an Olympic sport, but it has international 00:28:10.818 --> 00:28:16.545 annual championships. Interesting. It's interesting out of all your years 00:28:16.578 --> 00:28:22.996 here at A SU is there anything or things that, that, that stand out as uh 00:28:23.029 --> 00:28:29.397 particularly challenging or difficult or uh or rewarding? That's all all 00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:32.996 three of what you just now said, yeah, challenging, difficult and also 00:28:33.029 --> 00:28:38.916 rewarding. I think that the first thing that, uh now let me begin with the 00:28:38.949 --> 00:28:44.555 last OK. My last major administrative assignment in Arizona State 00:28:44.588 --> 00:28:50.976 University's administration was uh to help to develop from scratch, 00:28:51.009 --> 00:28:56.726 absolute scratch. Uh Arizona State University west campus, I was involved 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:01.357 in that from the day that we made a decision that it shall be a new campus 00:29:01.390 --> 00:29:05.446 and that at that time, that was only the first time that we had quote 00:29:05.479 --> 00:29:10.055 another campus as per se at that time, that would have, that would have 00:29:10.088 --> 00:29:13.607 been in the 19 seventies. 00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:19.467 Having said that, uh the challenge was to start from nowhere. We started 00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:24.756 in renting a little school in Peoria, uh to have not only our 00:29:24.789 --> 00:29:28.325 administrative staff meetings and we only had about seven or eight people 00:29:28.358 --> 00:29:34.436 at that time on the staff for the developing west campus. Uh, but also we 00:29:34.469 --> 00:29:40.117 used the school next to it next door to it for the classes that we offered. 00:29:40.150 --> 00:29:46.186 And at that time, it was a very new deal. And the most interesting part 00:29:46.219 --> 00:29:51.387 of that administration decision that was made was the first building that 00:29:51.420 --> 00:29:58.825 was built for a su West was the library and it was the finest total 00:29:58.858 --> 00:30:04.117 technologically perfect uh library in the world. A university library at 00:30:04.150 --> 00:30:09.717 that time, they could do anything you could get anything from that library. 00:30:09.750 --> 00:30:15.347 Uh which uh was an interesting way in which a decision was made, not not 00:30:15.380 --> 00:30:19.696 by me per se but by the administrative group that put that together. That 00:30:19.729 --> 00:30:23.637 was to me that was not only challenging, but it's very rewarding kind of 00:30:23.670 --> 00:30:26.295 situation. Makes sense that the library would be the center of the 00:30:26.328 --> 00:30:31.035 institution, doesn't it? And it's physically the the actual location was, 00:30:31.068 --> 00:30:37.016 is now what has become a Su West as the bit physiological center. As I 00:30:37.049 --> 00:30:41.367 recall, we even had some classes out of metro center uh during that time 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.736 period. Yes, Sena. Yeah. Yeah, you probably taught something. I didn't 00:30:45.769 --> 00:30:49.835 teach any but uh but I was aware they were there and I moved over to the 00:30:49.868 --> 00:30:53.795 Provost office by that time. So I was aware of it. So, what were some of 00:30:53.828 --> 00:30:58.305 the other challenges that you had or, or rewarding experiences? And uh uh 00:30:58.338 --> 00:31:03.416 uh uh a rewarding. Uh Let me give you one example. Uh At one time, we, by 00:31:03.449 --> 00:31:08.357 the way, this is a totally new sub subject that relates to your question. 00:31:08.390 --> 00:31:15.295 The Grady G Auditorium was as you know, named after the former president 00:31:15.328 --> 00:31:21.835 of the normal school. Grady G. And he uh he was relieved by G Homer Dham 00:31:21.868 --> 00:31:27.397 as the later president, but the uh Frank Lloyd Wright and he were very 00:31:27.430 --> 00:31:32.686 personal professional friends in the valley here. And therefore one of the 00:31:32.719 --> 00:31:39.867 last functions of design that Frank Lloyd Wright did. It was Grady G 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:44.436 Auditorium. It wasn't then named at that, but it was designed by Frank 00:31:44.469 --> 00:31:49.936 Lloyd Wright. Quote for his professional friend, Grady Gage. Interesting 00:31:49.969 --> 00:31:54.526 part about that is to answer your other question. Challenging to me. There 00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:58.506 were times when we would have and I can tell you this, that this was 00:31:58.539 --> 00:32:04.656 rewarding to me. The very first presentation at Grady G Auditorium was by 00:32:04.689 --> 00:32:08.976 the Philadelphia orchestra. And the man that was in charge of that was 00:32:09.009 --> 00:32:15.055 Eugene Ormandy, the director I received the role from the president to be 00:32:15.088 --> 00:32:21.467 his host while he and the band was here and that was a, a performed and I 00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:25.756 quote introduced them from the stage. Uh in that, that, that was not only 00:32:25.789 --> 00:32:29.867 challenging but rewarding, but the most interesting part of that little 00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:34.996 anecdote is that when Eugene Ormandy asked me to take him during the 00:32:35.029 --> 00:32:39.887 daytime before the show event that night through the auditorium, he walked 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.016 around to the different parts of the auditorium and snapped his fingers. 00:32:44.049 --> 00:32:49.967 He said, this is the finest auditorium for the performance of a band that 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.217 you could ask for wonder. Now, that was a rather interesting challenge and 00:32:54.250 --> 00:33:00.276 he was certainly an expert. So yes, uh are there uh any special people or 00:33:00.309 --> 00:33:04.897 persons that uh that had an impact on your career while you were here? You 00:33:04.930 --> 00:33:08.696 mentioned one of me and it's right here. Elmer Gooding. Yeah, Elmer 00:33:08.729 --> 00:33:12.397 Gooding and I have known each other for all of the years that both of us 00:33:12.430 --> 00:33:18.936 have been at Arizona State University. Uh You are one g Homer Dur Durham 00:33:18.969 --> 00:33:23.857 who was my boss, uh was the other. And by the way, during the five years 00:33:23.890 --> 00:33:29.666 that I was vice president for special services, he remained on as the 00:33:29.699 --> 00:33:34.156 president. And then he took over the role for the Mormon church. He was a 00:33:34.189 --> 00:33:38.785 Mormon and for the Mormon church, he took over in Salt Lake City, their 00:33:38.818 --> 00:33:44.246 international educational program. And that's why he left a su and when he 00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:48.835 left at that time, there would have been a possibility for me to be 00:33:48.868 --> 00:33:52.887 perhaps one of the vice presidents. But it turned out that there was 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:57.526 another offer that I received just about that time. I was on the board of 00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.147 directors of an organization nationally called the Society for The 00:34:01.180 --> 00:34:04.897 Advancement of Management. That's a national organization of which I've 00:34:04.930 --> 00:34:10.327 been a member for many years. And they were uh they were replacing a very 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:14.635 fine gentleman by the name of Harold Fisher, who was president of the 00:34:14.668 --> 00:34:19.896 University Division of the Society for Advancement of Management. And he 00:34:19.929 --> 00:34:24.577 reached the retiring and they offered me the job and the timing of that in 00:34:24.610 --> 00:34:29.405 terms of G Homer Dern leaving and my being quote, one of the vice 00:34:29.438 --> 00:34:32.517 presidents at that time and by that time, we had about five vice 00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:40.550 presidents. Oh, I became that uh that role uh with the approval of G Homer 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.206 Durham, uh excuse me of Glenn Overman, uh the my boss at the College of 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:50.717 Business. And uh I was in that role for a year and then uh the, the 00:34:50.750 --> 00:34:56.026 funding of that program was no longer capable to handle all the costs are 00:34:56.059 --> 00:35:01.865 evolving. So I then moved on to and remained into a role of being a 00:35:01.898 --> 00:35:06.557 management professor per se for the remainder of a time until I took on 00:35:06.590 --> 00:35:11.626 that role for the uh uh a su west campus. 00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:15.776 Now, if you think about when you came and you think about the year that 00:35:15.809 --> 00:35:21.345 you retired. How would you compare and contrast? A su and or the College 00:35:21.378 --> 00:35:26.577 of Business uh from, from the time you arrived till, till your retirement 00:35:26.610 --> 00:35:31.816 during that 25 year period. Elmer, the word I would describe in terms of 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:37.276 growth and reputation for the university, in many aspects, research, 00:35:37.309 --> 00:35:42.086 teaching, uh public service and so on. Of a university. I will use the 00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:48.057 word awesome. It went from, let's say 17,000 students to about 60,000 00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:53.077 students at that time in 9, 1988. And then as you all of us know right now 00:35:53.110 --> 00:35:59.236 , not only do we have 90,000, some students under the leadership of uh 00:35:59.269 --> 00:36:04.807 President Crowe and in his new role that has been, but also we have at 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:09.405 least five different full size campuses. 00:36:09.438 --> 00:36:12.986 It's amazing change. Yeah, to me that would be but, but you were an 00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:17.037 important part of that change. Well, the answer is yes, that had to be. 00:36:17.070 --> 00:36:23.227 Yes, that's true. Any other people that um had any impact on your years? 00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:30.247 Let me use another folks focus of the university. The man who when I 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:37.686 arrived was the uh uh chairman of the uh athletic department that uh was a 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:42.686 man by the name of Clyde Smith. Now, Clyde Smith was the all of the 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:47.925 athletic uh programs reported to him. Not only did all of they report to 00:36:47.958 --> 00:36:53.537 him, but he was also uh the coach of the gymnastics team for Hall. And at 00:36:53.570 --> 00:36:59.686 that particular time. Um At the very beginning of that relationship that I 00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:04.655 had with administration at the university, uh, Clyde Smith turned out at 00:37:04.688 --> 00:37:09.807 least five different national gymnastic champions. I mean, best, best 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:14.467 individual persons in their support. One was tumbling and other was 00:37:14.500 --> 00:37:21.876 parallel bars just as an example. Oh, that to me represented a, a really 00:37:21.909 --> 00:37:26.916 special guy. And uh the reason I mentioned that is a special guy because 00:37:26.949 --> 00:37:33.327 in 1992 men's gymnastics was dropped as a sport, which in my judgment 00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:40.477 administratively was a total mis brain. No, a non brainer. But on the 00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:46.006 other hand, that has happened all across the country in men's gymnastics 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:51.526 example, not related to a SU. But the fact that A SU now no longer since 00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:59.365 1992 has had a an umbrella under which a SU places it, but rather that 00:37:59.398 --> 00:38:03.856 particular dream that we kept alive that is men and women who have been 00:38:03.889 --> 00:38:08.885 interested in it. We've kept alive by having another coach in a private 00:38:08.918 --> 00:38:13.816 school, his own private school. His name is Scott Barkley. And then the, 00:38:13.849 --> 00:38:19.175 and then they compete in what they call club sports as in contrast to NC, 00:38:19.208 --> 00:38:27.208 to a sports. OK? In that 1992 to now, they have been national champions at 00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:34.756 least 11 times national team champions and many individual team member, 00:38:34.789 --> 00:38:41.037 first place champion. Now I use that as an example to segue from uh the 00:38:41.070 --> 00:38:46.396 man I was talking about who began it and that is, uh, Clyde Smith, uh, had 00:38:46.429 --> 00:38:51.537 Clyde, here's the thing. Had Clyde Smith been the athletic director in 00:38:51.570 --> 00:38:53.557 1992 00:38:53.590 --> 00:38:58.146 that would not have happened and that's just leave it, go at that. I mean 00:38:58.179 --> 00:39:03.327 , it was a, uh, a different mentality of the administration. I actually 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:10.767 sat down with the president at that time, 1992 to talk about that, not 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:16.006 just tell him how to run his university, but to ask him, why would men's 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:19.827 gymnastics be dropped? Part of it was thought of as being a replacement 00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:25.856 for title nine. That is, you know, that all women will be allowed. Um, 00:39:25.889 --> 00:39:31.155 excuse me, all sports programs would be equal in number of dollars spent 00:39:31.188 --> 00:39:34.977 for a university. And that's happened all over the country. That what they 00:39:35.010 --> 00:39:39.006 , what do we drop? Well, men's gymnastics was one, I didn't answer the 00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:45.537 question that I started to it at that time, 19 seventies, 19 eighties we 00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:52.497 had on the order of 100 and 75 major universities who had men's gymnastics 00:39:52.530 --> 00:39:59.467 as of last week, as of last week, mit a very famous academic school 00:39:59.500 --> 00:40:06.206 dropped men's gymnastics and that brought it down to 16. There are only 16 00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:12.405 men's gymnastics programs remaining uh in the NCT A program and across the 00:40:12.438 --> 00:40:19.327 nation. Now, that's not a ASU but it's related to FIFA A SU is one of them. 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:22.945 Out of the years that you were here, you had contact. Not only with a lot 00:40:22.978 --> 00:40:27.307 of administrators, a lot of people in the community, a lot of students. Uh 00:40:27.340 --> 00:40:32.095 what are, what are some of your fondest memories of uh of, of having been 00:40:32.128 --> 00:40:35.365 here for all those years and served as you had in all the different rules. 00:40:35.398 --> 00:40:39.916 I've mentioned a couple of names and a couple of situations so far. Um 00:40:39.949 --> 00:40:44.577 The uh uh let me give you one example, my, the man who was my boss when I 00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:48.316 first came to a su and that was uh the, the boss of the College of 00:40:48.349 --> 00:40:56.349 Business. Uh He was a quality administrator and a bunch of us may, may I 00:40:57.300 --> 00:41:01.506 say a bunch of us, a few of us in administration tried to have this 00:41:01.539 --> 00:41:06.586 building named or but this building was not built by them, but this school 00:41:06.619 --> 00:41:09.977 , it was not called the Carry School of Business. Then it was just the 00:41:10.010 --> 00:41:15.986 College of Business we want, we have tried to have it named after him and 00:41:16.019 --> 00:41:19.997 you know what the answer I got from the, the total administrator. We do 00:41:20.030 --> 00:41:24.845 not name buildings after people who are alive. 00:41:24.878 --> 00:41:29.396 That, that this was the final reason that because he, he satisfied all 00:41:29.429 --> 00:41:34.635 other criteria that we've been set for. But uh uh he, he was not 00:41:34.668 --> 00:41:39.077 considered for it. Now, obviously, the man who put the box into this 00:41:39.110 --> 00:41:45.066 character, he's still alive. That's an interesting aspect of so to answer 00:41:45.099 --> 00:41:48.247 your question, it would have been that the of the College of Business. You 00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:51.756 probably did a lot of advising of students and, and that throughout your 00:41:51.789 --> 00:41:55.146 career as well as a professor. What, what kind of advice would you give a 00:41:55.179 --> 00:41:59.646 young person now as they were beginning to embark on a, on a career in, uh 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:04.396 in higher ed, in education and university education, university 00:42:04.429 --> 00:42:07.885 administration or just, or, or even a student that is just entering what, 00:42:07.918 --> 00:42:13.486 what kind of varieties would you give them? Stay with it, do it? Uh uh We 00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:21.519 have a grandson who just began uh this week uh at Troy University. Troy 00:42:21.789 --> 00:42:27.925 State University in Alabama. And he's having this whole all of the, the 00:42:27.958 --> 00:42:32.686 funding paid for him for four straight years, even including a master's if 00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:38.456 he wants to continue on with it because his stepfather is a graduate of 00:42:38.489 --> 00:42:44.595 the University of Alabama. And that uh and then uh but my point is stay, 00:42:44.628 --> 00:42:48.816 we took, his name is Glenn. He's a great kid. Really. He's 19 years old 00:42:48.849 --> 00:42:54.146 next week. He's a great kid. Uh And our advice to him is stay with it. In 00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:57.896 other words, do that. What an opportunity. Yeah, that's education paid. 00:42:57.929 --> 00:43:02.566 Yeah. Now, if you don't have the opportunity to get the uh full ride 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:07.276 tuition from some source, whatever it may be, it still would pay to even 00:43:07.309 --> 00:43:11.845 borrow the funding to have a university degree. But that it relates to 00:43:11.878 --> 00:43:18.385 another part of my own experience over time. I don't believe that every 00:43:18.418 --> 00:43:25.316 student graduating from every high school should in effect really go to a 00:43:25.349 --> 00:43:29.845 four year college. Let me tell you the reason I, I have that point of view 00:43:29.878 --> 00:43:34.227 , it's a point of view, not necessarily the right point of view, but there 00:43:34.260 --> 00:43:38.345 are other things that have changed. For example, one of the things that 00:43:38.378 --> 00:43:43.925 has changed a major function of any administrator, it affected you when 00:43:43.958 --> 00:43:48.066 you're pro pros and it affected me in a different way because it didn't 00:43:48.099 --> 00:43:54.675 exist then in the same way. And that is uh uh email and uh and computers, 00:43:54.708 --> 00:44:00.517 they have changed what used to be a one on one relationship of an 00:44:00.550 --> 00:44:05.706 administrator to other people who he or she is working with. It's changed 00:44:05.739 --> 00:44:10.316 dramatically. Give you the one example at a Su West, one of the first 00:44:10.349 --> 00:44:15.296 things that we did in providing for the new staff members as that first 00:44:15.329 --> 00:44:20.057 year or two developed for them was to buy and purchase through the 00:44:20.090 --> 00:44:24.747 financial request that we made of the president. Then uh a computer for 00:44:24.780 --> 00:44:31.017 every faculty member. And there were times when people now who sat next 00:44:31.050 --> 00:44:36.646 door to another faculty member would miss meetings because they forgot to 00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:42.537 read the the computer. Whereas before they would knock on the door and say 00:44:42.570 --> 00:44:48.026 , hey, we have a meeting tomorrow. That was one amazing piece of reality 00:44:48.059 --> 00:44:53.436 to me that computers can change in a negative way as well as do so. Many 00:44:53.469 --> 00:44:57.175 things in a positive way and now that that has changed now students sit 00:44:57.208 --> 00:45:00.217 across the room from each other sending text messages back and forth. 00:45:00.250 --> 00:45:05.296 Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's, that's true. It does happen, it does happen. 00:45:05.329 --> 00:45:08.816 What, uh, what are some of the things that occupies your time? Uh, now 00:45:08.849 --> 00:45:14.026 that you're retired, what are you doing? Uh, uh, keep my sweet, my 00:45:14.059 --> 00:45:18.425 sweetheart, Chery. It's gonna, uh, react to this because she has given me 00:45:18.458 --> 00:45:23.146 advice so that maybe I should cut out some of the things I'm still active 00:45:23.179 --> 00:45:29.425 and have been ever since I retired from a su in, uh, 1988 00:45:29.458 --> 00:45:34.345 in at least six different organizations. I'm president of three. I'm on 00:45:34.378 --> 00:45:39.425 the board of directors of three others. Uh, and I'm active with them in 00:45:39.458 --> 00:45:44.106 terms of things we do together and they have to do with several things, 00:45:44.139 --> 00:45:48.816 Marine Corps, military in general. I'm president of what they call the 00:45:48.849 --> 00:45:52.635 Reserve Officers Association for the State of Arizona, I think gets me 00:45:52.668 --> 00:45:57.416 busy. But, um, we, for example, we have our executive committee meeting 00:45:57.449 --> 00:46:02.836 next Saturday which will take a half a day of my time. The answer to your 00:46:02.869 --> 00:46:09.456 question is that it be the advice to anybody don't ever give up totally 00:46:09.489 --> 00:46:14.945 what you do when you quote, retire. And, uh, and I'm sure that that has 00:46:14.978 --> 00:46:19.717 some bearing upon whether I'm mentally and even physically healthy. You're 00:46:19.750 --> 00:46:24.247 certainly living proof of that, aren't you? Well, it may be 00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:27.106 do. Uh And then of course, there's another part uh choose the right 00:46:27.139 --> 00:46:33.287 parents too. My dad has the jeans, you know, that relates to my dad uh in 00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:40.856 95. That's excellent. Question is amazing. For a Boxer 00:46:40.889 --> 00:46:45.376 West Campus. How is it? You got involved in the west campus being in the 00:46:45.409 --> 00:46:52.635 business school? Um That wasn't part of your job. It was not. No, it was 00:46:52.668 --> 00:46:57.566 not. It was the fact that, that they needed somebody with a university 00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:02.537 wide administrative experience and the la it was a lady. Um I, I forget 00:47:02.570 --> 00:47:07.217 her name right now, but she was the head of the program at A S at us U 00:47:07.250 --> 00:47:11.787 from the very beginning. And she went through the role and she called me 00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:15.166 up on time and said, uh we need somebody if you come over and be an 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:20.807 academic advisor for everything we do from the, you know, from 0.1 till it 00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:26.646 grows into a truly effective campus. And uh she invited me there to 00:47:26.679 --> 00:47:31.787 interview and that's how, that's how I was appointed that by uh by the 00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:36.566 then president of who I think it was uh uh school are not schoolar, excuse 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:43.405 me. I'm stuck on vice President Nelson. That Russell, it was very 00:47:43.438 --> 00:47:50.865 interesting. Russell Nelson, he was my student at UCL A. Oh, my student at 00:47:50.898 --> 00:47:55.836 UCL A is that there was Russell Nelson? Well, I'm sure your background in 00:47:55.869 --> 00:47:59.086 the extension work and all of that that you had done here at A U probably 00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:03.967 made you an attractive candidate to help them. I think that's the answer. 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:08.195 I think there was another connection with UCL A and that is G Homer Durham 00:48:08.228 --> 00:48:13.945 had been at UCL A before he came here. Yes, he had. Yes, he had. And 00:48:13.978 --> 00:48:18.977 incidentally, he, if I can say this, uh I have already implied that in 00:48:19.010 --> 00:48:22.606 other comment that you asked me, Elmer, uh He would be one of the people 00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:27.747 that stands out in my uh I think I've already said that uh at Arizona 00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:32.396 State University with, for whom I had the tremendous amount of respect as 00:48:32.429 --> 00:48:37.456 an administrator. Um I, I could give you several examples. Let me give you 00:48:37.489 --> 00:48:42.376 just one example during the student uprisings that were taking place 00:48:42.409 --> 00:48:49.316 because of the Vietnam War. We had students who would, would take the flag 00:48:49.349 --> 00:48:54.557 or w would overtake the flag if they were quote allowed to, I'm talking 00:48:54.590 --> 00:48:58.166 about the flag outside the administration building and there were several 00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:02.256 times that that happened, there were the students who were going to have 00:49:02.289 --> 00:49:10.289 AAA big something or other, but we had a man who was the security officer 00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:14.166 at that time. And again, here's my memories. I shouldn't, I can't remember 00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:18.195 his name. John Duff. 00:49:18.228 --> 00:49:23.316 John Duffy was, hey, now there's another person who stands out in people 00:49:23.349 --> 00:49:28.836 because of what he did. He said to the students, he called them together 00:49:28.869 --> 00:49:33.655 and he said, if you walk across this line, we will call in the State Guard 00:49:33.688 --> 00:49:38.037 for you and stop you. Now that brings me back to what I was about to say 00:49:38.070 --> 00:49:44.046 about uh decision making on the part of G Homer Durham, G Homer Durham had 00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:49.865 the administration building when he first took over connected to the then 00:49:49.898 --> 00:49:56.997 College of Business, then College of Business by an entry from his office 00:49:57.030 --> 00:50:03.307 to that second floor building. And if anything were to happen, that we 00:50:03.340 --> 00:50:06.986 would need it, that the president would have to get out of the way of what 00:50:07.019 --> 00:50:11.467 that was. And nobody knew that. I mean, that, that was not, that was not a 00:50:11.500 --> 00:50:15.997 generally known thing. There was a door between the co the administration 00:50:16.030 --> 00:50:20.057 building on the second floor into the College of Business, then the 00:50:20.090 --> 00:50:23.756 College of Business. But building as it existed, then it opened in the 00:50:23.789 --> 00:50:27.635 back of a lecture hall, I believe. Exactly. Yeah, it went, yeah, it, it, 00:50:27.668 --> 00:50:31.396 it came right into the, and so if anything ever happened, we never had to 00:50:31.429 --> 00:50:35.146 use it per se, but it was there. Well, there were a lot of set ins during 00:50:35.179 --> 00:50:37.865 that time period and that would have given him the opportunity to get out 00:50:37.898 --> 00:50:43.276 and take care of things rather than feeling he was trapped in his office 00:50:43.309 --> 00:50:50.925 when you came to Tempe in 1963. Uh Where did you live? On Terrace Road? 00:50:50.958 --> 00:50:55.307 Terrace Road is, uh that at that time? There was a builder who was 00:50:55.340 --> 00:51:00.865 building brand new homes and my family and I actually had to live in a 00:51:00.898 --> 00:51:06.307 motel for at least three months. By the, until that, that particular house 00:51:06.340 --> 00:51:10.956 was finished, it was a brand new home. Uh, 00:51:10.989 --> 00:51:16.227 I try to think of the a, is that a, so is that a son home? I don't know, I 00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:21.236 , I forget the actual builder but I think it may very well. So you live 00:51:21.269 --> 00:51:26.425 there? Your whole? Yes. Yeah. We lived and we lived there. My family and I 00:51:26.458 --> 00:51:32.807 lived there. The kids went to Minto High School which was quote within 00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:38.445 long walking distance for them, but they went there. No. And, uh, we were 00:51:38.478 --> 00:51:42.967 between, uh, terrace Road was as I remember between mcclintock and rural 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:47.956 road at that time. Right now, we, we crossed a terrace road driving here 00:51:47.989 --> 00:51:53.227 today. There's an angle of terrace road leading into the area where we 00:51:53.260 --> 00:51:59.767 live at that time. And so the answer to your questions, we live close to 00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:03.787 the university. Relatively speaking, Joe's family is, uh, is really 00:52:03.820 --> 00:52:07.606 dedicated to a su because he didn't mention this. But his daughter was one 00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:14.026 of the cheerleaders. Yes. One of my daughters, Tina was, uh, not only at a 00:52:14.059 --> 00:52:20.307 cheerleader at mcclintock High School, but also at a S US U. So she had 00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:26.997 some gymnastics. Uh, she, yeah, built in, as a matter of fact, uh I did, 00:52:27.030 --> 00:52:30.767 uh, I mentioned without giving all the details about different people. But 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.925 one of the things that I did in this acrobatics was what was called an 00:52:34.958 --> 00:52:41.635 Adao act with my then wife, uh, Dorothy. Uh, and Dorothy's mother, uh, 00:52:41.668 --> 00:52:47.916 Dorothy was the mother of Tina and Tina when she was 1011, 1213, we used 00:52:47.949 --> 00:52:53.986 to do her, the dog show act that I did with her, her mother, uh, at, uh, 00:52:54.019 --> 00:52:59.856 at different places, uh, uh, we would do a show together so that she, she 00:52:59.889 --> 00:53:04.717 did a lot of that activity that prepared her well, to be a cheerleader. 00:53:04.750 --> 00:53:09.865 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now that, and I, the point is I enjoyed what I did. 00:53:09.898 --> 00:53:15.227 Oh, you asked me a question earlier? Um, Elmer, what would I, what advice 00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:21.017 would I give to young people? Do what you enjoy 00:53:21.050 --> 00:53:25.365 and whatever you, whatever it may be as you're graduating from high school 00:53:25.398 --> 00:53:30.816 into the beginning of a career somewhere or going to a university, do what 00:53:30.849 --> 00:53:36.126 gives you what I call passion to do it, whatever it may be. Now, I, I'll 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:40.956 give you one example that I have a, a son who's 64 years old. His name is 00:53:40.989 --> 00:53:45.885 Mike and Mike visited with me when he was 18 years old and he said, I 00:53:45.918 --> 00:53:49.916 don't want to work as hard as you have worked. I said, Mike, what do you 00:53:49.949 --> 00:53:54.727 like to do? And he was always good with, uh, technical things. And so Mike 00:53:54.760 --> 00:54:00.506 has become and has been a very successful plumber and he's a good one and 00:54:00.539 --> 00:54:04.756 Mike has been a ver now he did go to college. He did join the Marine Corps 00:54:04.789 --> 00:54:08.615 because of me, on both accounts though, I thought he ought to give it a go. 00:54:08.648 --> 00:54:14.195 But then he's, he turned out to be a first class, uh, and successful, uh 00:54:14.228 --> 00:54:18.816 , income producing, uh, plumber. Is he in this area? Yes, he was. Well, 00:54:18.849 --> 00:54:24.756 let's get his name on the, on his name is his, his name is Michael Sacher. 00:54:24.789 --> 00:54:30.206 But the name of his company is Abel A bl he's able to do able plumbing 00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:36.486 and he lives in, um, Williams, Williams, Arizona, Williams. Yeah. Yeah. 00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:40.376 Great company here. And he lives in Williams. No, no, no, no. That's 00:54:40.409 --> 00:54:44.296 where he, that's where he retired. Uh, not retired. That's where he set up 00:54:44.329 --> 00:54:50.695 his business years ago. Yeah, that sound advice. Yes, that sound as, as 00:54:50.728 --> 00:54:54.356 you thought about coming here today. You probably had some things in mind 00:54:54.389 --> 00:54:57.945 that, uh, that you said, well, I'd like to be able to say something about 00:54:57.978 --> 00:55:01.106 this or that and I may have missed asking a question about something. Is 00:55:01.139 --> 00:55:04.646 there anything that, uh, that you'd like to share with us? I don't know, 00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:08.086 Elmer. I think that you and David with the questions he raised, which I 00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:13.666 didn't think about to prepare for. Um, uh I, uh I can't think of anything 00:55:13.699 --> 00:55:18.186 else that I could say. Well, except to say that it was uh a pleasure to be 00:55:18.219 --> 00:55:24.436 related to a SU during that 25 year period. And each one of the steps that 00:55:24.469 --> 00:55:29.146 I was in some way related, either as an administrator or as a faculty 00:55:29.179 --> 00:55:35.006 member and, or as a uh a person who represented the university in 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:39.287 different meetings. And I did represent uh the A SU in lots of different 00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:45.945 meetings locally and nationally uh over the 25 year period. Well, on 00:55:45.978 --> 00:55:49.345 behalf of the A SU Retirees Association and behalf of all of our 00:55:49.378 --> 00:55:52.807 colleagues A U, we thank you for your service and all the things that you 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.977 did to make a su a better place. Well, that's so thank you. So it's a nice 00:55:57.010 --> 00:56:01.267 way to say to end a very good program. I appreciate being a part of the 00:56:01.300 --> 00:56:05.287 whole picture here. Thank you so much. Thank you. But once again, I thank 00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:08.385 you so much. It's so nice of you to come up here and do this for us. And 00:56:08.418 --> 00:56:11.655 uh thank you, you helped to build some more memories for your issue. And 00:56:11.688 --> 00:56:16.849 thank, thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you.