Today is September 10th, 2015.
We're here today at the Arizona State University Retiree's office on Curry
Road and we're here to do a video history interview
with us. Today is John mcintosh operating the camera and the director is
Linda Vanoy.
Please introduce yourself, stating your name and your positions at a
OK, Harry Lundgren, uh I was a member of the Faculty of Civil Engineering
Professor of Civil Engineering. Uh and
you were here during,
started here on campus actually in 59 but a faculty position in 61 and I
was here from 61 until 1989 when I retired. I was a soft retirement. Uh
There were a couple of reasons to come back for a little bit but um
legally and, and all I retired and did not to begin with. Uh let our
viewers know about your early life. Uh Where were you born? When were you
born? And where were you raised? I was born in 1928 in Chicago on the
south side of Chicago uh to live there till I was about 11. At which time
we moved out to the northwest corner of Indiana. Right, right up in the,
in the corner, uh, about 40 miles from downtown Chicago, but culturally,
1000 miles away in a small town, in fact that the part that I lived in
wasn't incorporated, it was a resort kind of community. And, uh, so the
high school was nearby was a rural high school. Uh, small enough that,
that we all got to play sports if we wanted to and big enough that we got
a taste of what it would be like. Um, you know, I was fortunate to go to a
high school with outstanding teachers, uh school with about 500 students
and the uh faculty were most good and helpful and the principal especially
took command of your life when you came in there. Uh You, you did nothing
that he didnt know being a small town. You didn't do anything, uh, that
everybody didn't know about anyway. That was uh one reason I never got in
trouble. It wasn't because I wasn't a bad guy. Uh, just everybody knew me
and, uh, so I did that, but what was the closest town was that near the
Indiana Dunes? No, the dunes run around toward Michigan. This was just, uh
, would be south of kind of Hammon Gary area. About 20 miles south of the
south end of Lake Michigan. About four miles from the Illinois Line and
about 15 miles from Lake Michigan. But far enough from the Stale Mills.
Yeah. Uh it was peculiar kind of a county because, uh, our town that I
went to high school in about 5000 population and it was the county seat
and the county had Ham and Gary Chicago Whiting, Indiana Harbor, all of
these, these businesses and we were the county seats of that. Uh, as a
result, that part of the town was, was fairly well off because they were
the lawyers and, and everybody that was involved with the county, uh where
I lived was an unincorporated resort which was quite a bit different. Um
In high school, elementary school, I was fairly straightforward. I went to
high school in Crown Point and c is very famous. I don't know if you aware
or not, but it's where Dillinger escaped with the gun and the stories
where he carved a potato or he carved a board. Uh I happened to have
opportunity to meet with the sheriff at that time and none of that was
true. He overpowered the guard and took his gun. It isn't as romantic, but
it's what happened. Also. We were the marriage capital of the midwest, uh
Ronald Reagan, uh Muhammad Ali, uh all kinds of movie stars were married
in our little town because they would be entertaining in Chicago. And I,
and you could get married after you started the process in 24 hours in, in
Indiana, in Chicago, which took a couple of weeks. So these people would
just come across the line and get married. Uh, I get very interested in
sports and I played basketball, football and, uh, baseball. Uh, never,
never good enough to play in college but good enough to play in a, in a
500 student. Uh, school.
How about a little of your family life, brothers, sisters? Uh, what was
your parents' background? Well, it was, it was not real successful. Uh,
the, uh, the folks were divorced when I was about six and, uh, I have a
brother, younger brother, four years younger. Uh, that was kind of
coincidental with our moving to Indiana, it was a, we thought a better
environment for us to grow up in, in this rural area than, than south side
of Chicago. I think she was right. Uh, should be married. The wonderful
man. He was a great stepfather and, uh, supporters. Oh, did very well. We
, we, uh, I had a, we lived right out in the lake. My, my bedroom was
about 30 ft from the lake and, uh, the folks had a multi store. The, the,
the core of it was a bakery, but we had meat and produce and sandwiches
and hot dogs and M milks and, and we, anything that you can make money on
, we sold, we even sold shoes for a little while because with the steel
mills there, they all had to wear steel toed shoes. And so we got the
franchise on steel toed shoes from this company. So that's the only shoe
we sold was just steel toed shoes. Uh, but it was a, it was a neat place
to grow up. Uh, as a resort, uh, had a big dance pavilion on the lake, uh
, which had all the big band, big bands would, their contracts would end
on Sunday in Chicago and they start Wednesday someplace else where they
had Monday and Tuesday to do something with. So they come out and play at
our pavilion. So we had every big man you can ever imagine the Dorsey's uh
Columb by uh Stan Kenton. All of them come out and played at our pavilion.
So it was, it was a neat place to grow up
and what uh directed your decision, say to go off to college in
engineering. Well, I learned how to take a square run and, and that, that
kind of directed me to engineering. That was, I know I like math and
science and we had good math. And so our principal was our math teacher uh
and our Latin teacher and he got to know you very well and he decided that
what courses you should take and when you got done, uh why aren't you
going to Purdue? You know? OK. And I didn't have an answer for that. So uh
he was a, a great psychologist. He understood all the students, he
convinced us all that he could tell we were lying by taking our pulse. So
anything that happened on campus, he would line everybody up and take your
pulse and, and by the time he got halfway through, somebody would own up
to it, or sometimes he would know ahead of time who did it, but he'd still
go through the pulse thing and, and that just reinforced our beliefs that
we just didn't have a way to get around it. Uh He was a big man. He didn't
mind taking on a football player physically if he had to. But he could
teach Latin, he, he could teach anything. The typing teacher became ill.
He took typing. Uh I taught all the math classes, some of the science. Uh
and when it came time to go to college, it was uh, here sign the papers,
you, more or less your, your background is such that you should go to
college and uh engineering seems to fit your likes and produce is 90 miles
away and that I didn't pick Purdue as much as they picked me. I just, just
, uh, where's the place to go if you're not familiar with the Indiana
culture?
If you don't, if you uh live in Indiana, at least back when I was there,
if you live in Indiana and you're going to college, if you don't go to
Purdue or Indiana University, people want to know why. Uh That's, I knew
of only one student in my class and, and they were good students that
didn't go to those two schools. Uh, they went to Notre Dame, which was on
the border. But, uh, no, they, they went for, it was kind of expected.
Yeah, if you could get in, uh, at the time that I went in, in 1946
was that all the troops were coming home from the military? And, uh, I'm
not sure I didn't apply to any other university. I don't know if I could
have gotten in, in that day. I was in state and, uh, I had a, a decent
record. Uh, they doubled the enrollment from spring to fall G I Bill with
the G I Bill G I Bill. They had the, uh, the rooms that were one man rooms
and the dormitories and all became two men, the ones that were two men
became four men. And, uh, uh, then I really thought I was fortunate. I, uh
, we had some returning military man and they could be of a different elks.
We have to draw some terrific guys. They kind of took us on as little
brothers and, uh, didn't, didn't let us go too far astray. Uh, so I was
lucky in that respect. Back to, uh, grade school, high school. Did you
have any job? Sound like you might have worked in the family store, worked
there. I worked in, in, you know, during the war and they lowered the age
and allowed you to work in some of the, the defense facilities because
they didn't have the, the young men. So I worked in the steel mill when I
was 16. I drove an oil truck, oil gasoline delivery truck. When I was just
16. I just a year out to get my driver's license. Uh, I worked as a
gardener and that was because I was playing baseball and played every
afternoon practice or played in the afternoon and there was a job I could
get where I could go there at four in the morning and do my work and uh be
available for the baseball. And, and like you said, I was to fill in at
the store that I was always available sometimes at two in the morning if,
if it was in the bakery. Mhm. And that didn't suit the young 16 year old
with social ambitions, you know, to, to get up at two o'clock. Uh Then in
uh I also worked in a automobile body shop on Saturdays, uh gopher sand
the car. And I love that because I got to drive all these different cars
uh moving around inside the garage. Um Now that Purdue um I uh well, I did
what most everybody did. I bused tables for a couple of years and then I
hooked on with the civil engineering firm in town. We needed some drafting
that, that it was uh modular homes. And so they would rough out something
and then I would find the modules that put together and uh that was nice
because let me do it in my, in my room. Now, is that near where the RV
industry uh started up? The RV was up north. That was more like South Bend.
Uh OK. When you, I was thinking you were working when you were living at
home in the modular home dormitory,
uh Things were a little different for my bachelor's degree was 100 and 64
semester hours
and they just scheduled for 20 semester hours each semester. So you took
20 that you had eight semesters, that's 100 and 60 you had to go one
summer and that was the way that the program worked. And you picked uh
structural engineering versus mechanical or how did you get in the
structure? None of these things ever work out. Like you think I had some
capability to draw and uh and understood perspectives and, and some other
things like that. And uh so I thought I'd like to be an architectural
engineer and I got the Purdue catalog, the only catalog I ever saw and
they had architectural engineering in there. I thought, OK, I'm going that
seals that I'm going to Purdue turned out they had 12 semester hour course
in architectural engineering uh as an optional course. In fact, of 100 and
64 semester hours, 100 and 60 were, were block step. I only get four
semester hours of, of options. Yeah. Uh So it was a little and everybody
took the 20 hours. I didn't know anybody that took six hours to get
through, even at 100 and 64 hours. They, they, we always had class on
Saturday. That was, that was a given. Uh, we had an injury, we had lots of
labs. So even 20 semester hours wasn't 20 hours in the classroom, there
was another eight or 10 hours of, of lab work that was due, uh, you know,
looking back on it, it looks like it would have been tough when I was
there. It was just what you did. Uh, everybody was doing it. So, so you
did it and, and never thought much about it. Uh, extracurricular
activities. Uh, high school or college? Well, in high school was sports
that, that was pretty much it. I was class officer but that, that goes
with the sports, you're successful sports person. You become a class
officer too. Uh,
not really anything else that pretty much took up my time and in high
school and college with the 20 semester hours, I really didn't do anything.
I, I went to school and that was pretty much it. Uh, now did military
service come along after? What year did you graduate? I graduated in 1950
50 which was the, the Korean thing was just one just speeding up about
that time just recovering from the war. Uh, and because my grades were
decent, they had a deferment process that they would give you for one year.
I came up for, for a draft at the end of my junior year. And so the, the
, uh, board said, well, if you, if you sign up now for, for the time after
that will give you a year deferment. So that's what I did. So, I, I
graduated in June of 1950 and, uh, I went into the military in November in
1950 and I knew everybody knew it. And I decided I'd get a job near home
and I got a job with a construction company which stood me in good stead
in the long run. I didn't, you know, and, uh who had five that had been on
the job and my job was a cost plus job for the government. My job was to
go around every day and mark down where everybody was working. That was,
that was what I did unless they needed a pound of nails. In which case I
had to go out and get three bids on nails, the hardware store.
Uh Then I went to the military uh in November of 50
went to basic training in, in Kentucky and uh took six weeks basic
training. And because I already had my degree, uh, they gave me an M OS uh
uh an identification number that tells what you can do. Uh I'm, I'm an
engineer and so they wrote me orders at the end of my six weeks to go to
Fort Belvoir, Virginia uh in uh the research facility there. And that was
all neat and that was good and especially not taking the other eight weeks
of basic. I wasn't crazy about that. So I went to ship me to Fort Myer,
Virginia, which was adjacent to the Pentagon. Uh In fact, it was sat right
between Arlington cemetery and the Pentagon and there was a tunnel from
our base over. Well, that last about two weeks down came different orders.
They didn't like the fact that I was dressed in civilian clothes most of
the time going into Washington. And uh no, they shipped a bunch of us out
to Fort Bello. We said, hey, you can't do that. We've got orders. He said
no new orders here. Take the other eight weeks. Basic. So by the time I
finish that my orders to the to the uh research facility had been passed
over. So I got a position teaching erection of portable airplane hangar to
construction groups.
Uh six week course is this Corps of Engineering Corps of Engineer in the
six weeks course. And uh there were three of us teaching it. So he had two
weeks teaching two weeks assisting and two weeks off. Uh the office was
supposedly the right lesson plans. But once you've been through it, once
or twice, there wasn't much of a job. So I, I became an expert in
Smithsonian uh because I can get, I only had a big revel and then I was
free the rest of the day in those two weeks. Then they decided to move
that the Fort Leonard Wood, which I don't know if any of, you know about
Fort Leonard wood, but it's a, it's a muddy place about 6070 miles from
Springfield, Missouri. Nobody wants to go there. I didn't want to go there.
And, uh, so we, we made a little noise through three of us in that same
boat and we got reassigned to the engine roster, candidate school. And
that's why I spent the rest of my time. Essentially.
We ran 22 week course and we had a new group every week. So we had 22
groups going at a time
just making sure things were running slow. We got out of the military in
1952 1952 November and I went to work at Clon Air in the first year. Give
us a little background on Kanye Con is a, uh, architectural metals
fabricator and erector which, uh, was mostly aluminum and we did, uh,
things like, uh, outside walls for buildings. Uh, we had a big door
business. We probably made and sold 30 or 40,000 doors a year. Mhm. And,
uh, they were the largest architectural metal firm in the country. We and
a few other plants. One in L A, one in Atlanta was in Niles, near your
home. Yeah, it was about 90 miles from where I inch and I got the job
through it. Employment Agency in downtown Chicago. Somebody said that's a
good place to go. They give you tests and they're hooked up with all these
companies and then they'll recommend you. So I went in there and it was a
two day exam. Let's go back one step. When you get out of the army, they
go through a set of tests for you to help you. But I already had my degree.
But it make a difference that, that was the procedure was that I went and
it was, you know, everything from uh sentence completion to r uh test and
it was all this stuff pretty. And so when I got out and I went to this
place, they did the same thing with this and I got so sick of it that at
the end of the second day, I really was pretty rude about it. I said, well
, let me tell you what the R at is. I won't tell you what I told you. It
was, it was pretty bad, turned out. That's what I was supposed to do. And
they gave me a very high rating. You were supposed to not like that sort
of thing as much as I had. So, um, and Con Air picked me up from there.
They, they had used another, uh it was a combination
manufacturing and product company. Big part was product, but product was
always revolving in new products. It was a pleasant place to work. Uh,
most pleasant because I met my wife there. I'm not gonna make it nine
times, like, very nice lady. And, uh, we were married in 55
and we spent three more years there. She, she had a partial teaching
degree, allowed her in Michigan to teach outside the city limits. Yeah.
But this, as long as she continued to take classes. So, uh, she did that
and I worked there. We, we enjoyed it but the cold weather and the snow
finally got to us. It got to me especially. And I came in one Friday night
, I was traveling, I was troubleshooting at this point. You know, I, I'd
leave on Monday and they tell me they leave a note Monday night where I
was to go the next time and it might be from here to Atlanta and the next
time was Hot Springs, Arkansas. And then it was New Jersey and I'd get
home on Friday night leave on Monday morning. And I got there and it had
about eight inches of snow. I plowed through the parking lot at the
airport. Couldn't start the car, walked another mile through the snow, got
somebody to give me a jump and that started, walked in Monday morning,
told my boss I quit, uh, uh, take as long as you want to get a replacement.
But I'm, I'm through and, uh, did you know where you were gonna go. I had
no idea. Didn't have any idea. I, the west intrigued me. I had a friend
who had come to Phoenix and I had relatives in Denver and I spend a little
time in Denver. Like Denver very well, very much. In fact, first day there
I got a job offer, endeavor.
But the friend that lived here said, come on down and at least experience
Phoenix. Oh, ok. So I came down then it was very hard to find that it was
all hand to mouth because there was no advertising in the paper. You had
to get in with somebody. And, uh, I had some job opportunities but they
didn't pay, they were step down considerably from what I was getting.
So I was gonna go back on Friday night and then we take the job. I got a
phone call Friday night in the frontier Airlines, which was the only
airlines flying to Denver at that time. And, uh, they said, uh, we've got
it settled. We'll, we'll fly in the morning and, uh, that's how we'll fly
in the morning. We'll, we'll get out in the morning in the meantime, one
of the guys that from the fabrication company here in town called me up
the salary. So if it hadn't been for that delay from Friday to Saturday,
I'd have been working in Denver. No, no doubt. This is a steel fabricator
, steel fabricator, small steel fabricator. And, uh, so I worked he was,
he was interested in getting into the product line Carports, uh that sort
of thing. And once we got the product settled, it only took about a year
until we had decent product line that I was becoming an administrator.
Again. That's not what I wanted. So, uh what to Salt River project?
And uh went in there was that, that would have been the, would ask
questions like that. That would have been 60. It was, I, I started taking
night classes at a su while I was still working at Salt River and
Engineering. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, it gotten away a little bit from the
high tech part of structural engineering to product kind of work. And so
Lewis Hill had just come at that time. So there's a whole group, maybe
seven or eight of us that were in town here that were practicing engineers
that went to Louis's class. That's how he got his class. And uh I still
see some of those people.
So, what was that class? Was it always advanced structural analysis
process? Yeah. Advanced analysis and determined structures, uh concrete,
reinforced concrete and concrete. Uh And finally, my boss over at Salt
River said, you know, taking one class a semester, you're not gonna get
there for a long time. Why don't you take off a year? We'll hold your job
, take off a year and finish the darn thing. So that's what I did. It
wasn't, I didn't get paid. But now Joyce had finished her degree here so
she could get a full time job. So we didn't want to get used to 22
salaries. So it was an opportune time. So I went back and finished and it
didn't come out just exactly. Even I needed one more course on the
master's and they need the course taught. I said, ok, will you teach that
course?
Uh, Lee Thompson, who was, our dean was very much that all of the
engineering instructors should have experience. He didn't want anybody in
that just came out of school with no experience. Well, I had 10 years
experience. So I fit their, their pattern and I taught that course at the
end of that. Um, I was still all right. And they were still all right. So
they offered me a position and that was in 61 that was in 61. Yeah. And
then Lewis Lewis didn't have his phd. And uh so he was working for me
because he wanted somebody that could come in and teach the classes that
he had been teaching.
And so, uh he left in 63 and went and got his phd. By that time, I
recognized that if I was gonna do the things I wanted to do, uh, oh, and I
got the master's at the issue. I need the phd also. So then he took the
classes back over and I left from 60 essentially 65 to 67. And uh I went
to Oklahoma State, which is his original undergraduate, his original
undergraduate, his original masters and he had connections there with um
John T. Sure. Yeah, he had,
well, there, there are more connections, the engineering of a su got
people by Purdue Oklahoma State and Texas A and M. Those are the places
where most large number of faculty came from. Our first chairman, Bob
Kirsten uh had his bachelor's masters in Oklahoma City, chairman of civil
engineering. Uh Now is that environmental also water? He was fluid
mechanics. Uh He uh got his phd at Northwestern with Zinke who was a
famous
British fluent guy. Uh
So that, that got me to, to Oklahoma City and uh
trying to think of what else might might have occurred in there. Well,
when I got back in 67 by that time, the program had grown, the structures
program had grown. So instead we had, at that time, we had Dick Peel and
uh Louis and myself and we added Bill shoulder to that. And uh so we had a
pretty viable graduate program with four structures people. We could offer
a lot of different courses and we did, we did, we had, we had fair share
of, of uh a lot of masters students but a fair share of phd students. Uh
Now they have one structures person,
they kind of uh dropped that specially. Huh? Yeah, let's go back to uh
when you got here, I'm bugging my tongue right now. You feel? Yeah. Um,
that's happened in a lot of places on the campus. I think the, uh,
computers were just showing up on campus in 5859.
I think, uh, Noble. Noble was Motorola, encourage the engineering to
develop here. But, uh, ge was in town, uh, tell us a little background on
the computer to philanthropic.
They, they had these large computers but they didn't have facilities to
you, you know, the old computers all had to have air conditioning. They
have two or 3 ft of plenum underneath the equipment to feed the air
conditioning through them. But they overheated so easily.
Dean Thompson was able to build that kind of facility down in
maybe when I guess was. And so, uh ge got to use it
from midnight to eight or something like that. We used the rest, some kind
of arrangement. I share the hours, but it was something like that. So it
was a mutual, mutual thing. Uh So at that time, you had the main computer
and you had, you didn't have microcomputers, you had monitors, which
themselves had no cap, no computational capability that all went on at the
mainframe.
And a little aside, you know, that's where we're going. Now we're going
back to monitors and mainframes because the security is so much easier to
do it at one place. But, uh anyway, so, uh then we got uh Lewis and I
talked into buying, ok, I think what they called it. That was kind of an
in between computer. An LP LP G 30 a freestanding little computer that, uh
, used interpretive language which, uh meant that it was running the
machine language. All right. But you used English but a limited English uh
to run it. Uh It was a card feed. Well, it was originally paper tape feed
, paper taper tear. That was always fun trying to tape it back. Exactly.
Right. Uh Finally we got in this card reading and, and that progressed
that I had the first microcomputer
in engineering at home. I had one home before they had one. I can't uh an
engineering. It was a thought works was the name of the computer. It was
built here in Phoenix.
The console weighed about £250 because they had no idea where they were
going. They had 28 expansion slots.
Uh I, I bought that and a uh monitor which was a green symbols on black
background. Very good, very good resolution. Very easy on the eyes and a
printer, an old dot matrix and I paid $6000. That, that wasn't a grant.
That was my money. That was to get started in, in this thing. Uh When did
you see your first computer? Was it here on campus? They had a 1620
uh that was the leader of a punch tape one. The LP G 30 would predating
that. Yeah, we decided we worked for the 1620 for a while too. They tend
to overheat too a little bit. Uh, in fact, the, the card box held 2000
cards and I taught a course for, for practicing engineers and use the
computer instructors. And the final project was, was they had to write
this program, you know, and, and, uh, it usually took about 2000 cars the
day before he was handed in one guy dropped the box and at that time, they
didn't have numbers in column 80 that came later, there was no way to put
it back together. No way at all. Later on, they reserved columns 81 to 90
or something for a number. And when you punch the card, you have a number
and then they had a machine that you could throw all the cards in and it
would sort them and they come out by the numbers. But uh but he in the
office
and he was, he was a pretty reputable engineer in town. He was chief
engineer at uh Allison Field Jim Worst off. But anyway, so we, and in this
big computer, the slowest thing was the card. Well, the tapes and the
tapes would not back up. So a lot of solution procedures require that you
, that you move one and then you move back one on the back one meant go
all the way through the tape and coming at it from here. So it took all
that time for a rewind to get back again. That was slow. But the slowest
thing was a card reader and they finally came up with one which was vacuum
fit. It would suck the car. So that was much faster. When you got somebody
in there didn't know what he was doing. You sneak around and through the
gate open on the back. You know.
you know, it's kind of indoctrination.
Is that a practical joke? That was a practical joke. And, uh, nobody ever
owned up to it but it was, it was kind of the indoctrination. It was
usually on the night shift.
I remember trying to run a program over there at two in the morning. I
mean, that's when you put your card deck in and came back the next day and
found out there was an error somewhere but you didn't know where. That's
right. Well, Lee Thompson, you know, we really get to him, I suppose. But
, you know, he, he believed in, uh, professional teaching and he believed
in education first, then education, second, education, third and research
over there someplace. That's the way if you came, engineering came to be
because, uh, u of a would not take on that approach. And so they convinced
the legislature that this would be an educating facility. And, uh, so they
made it difficult to do research, kind of like that you had to run at
night or do, do such things.
Now, let's see.
And I haven't really insulted anybody yet. Uh Let's talk about the faculty
facilities. Just the facilities that were here when you came on board in
59 60 61 faculty offices, classrooms, just the facilities that were
available.
Hm. Well,
the we uh ay was where I was located originally. Uh There were several of
us in the office, the, the structural lab we designed and built after that
time, which was where Kaet had been because it had Kaet had a high, very
high ceiling for their drops and we need a high ceiling for the, for the
pressure systems and uh for the testing equipment. So it worked out very
well. And we, we poured new slab in here with a 24 inch thick concrete
slab with one inch rebar on 12 inch center, top and bottom crossways and
then with attachments so we, we could pull anything in there. Uh And uh as
far as the offices, there wasn't much to occasionally, you know, you went
from not having windows and progressed to having an office with windows.
I'm not sure that that's what, what you're interested in. Uh
was structural engineering. One of the first disciplines to use computing.
Lewis Hill was he a pioneer in using a computer.
Well, are you talking about just at a SU or are you talking about
universally? Just a su?
Well, I think he and I were probably bought together when we bought that
LP G convinced the Dean to buy that LTP 30. I think that was kind of the
beginning. Uh
And, and it, you know, it's hard to trace growth because it do things
don't grow this way, they grow this way, they grow with in pieces. And uh
so you pick a particular time or point that something changed is really
kind of difficult.
Um
They took a different route.
Your department, which I guess you wouldn't say it was structural, uh was
civil was the, the broad term. And uh who are the various chairs of that
department over? He said Kirsten was, uh he was chair of Civil. He, well,
first, the first acting chair was Paul Ruff and he held the position
knowing that it would go to Kirsten when Kirsten finished his phd. And so
that I, I never knew who was the first one. It was either rough or, or
Kirsten. Then after that you made in civil. Yes. Well, let's see, uh uh
Bob Kirsten went to uh uh Florida is a Dean of Engineering and
Charlie Newland took over
and if I say nice things I would say by far, the best chairman we ever had
, uh he was the chairman of the faculty, not of the dean. So when you had
something that you wanted, Charlie, walked with you to the dean and walked
with you to the president. Uh and uh we made great progress in that time.
So he was, he was the second chairman, each chairman in civil engineering
with one exception, served exactly seven years and, and there's a
rationale for that. But uh, so Kirsten was there seven years and Nan was
there seven years and uh Lewis Hill was there seven years and Charlie
o'bannon was there seven years. Uh Touma was there one year
o'bannon's departure was unexpected.
And so Truman said, yes, he'd fill in but for one year and there's no
question if you don't have somebody. No, I get that. Uh
Then I guess it was Larry Mays, I think was next. And then uh Sandy
Houston now, Sandy served 10 years. That's the exception that I'm talking
about. And Tus served one year. Uh two men, the one year he was chairman,
totally reorganized the law office totally. I mean, there was no
assimilation between the way it was before he got in there and after he
got it all for the good, um let's go into uh Tua and uh tell his story how
he came into the picture. And uh his life started back to the beginning,
John Tua was uh Czechoslovakia. And when he was 28 years old, he was
elected to the junta that they had 100 people in, in Czechoslovakia, one
of the youngest. It's not the youngest. That's about the time that the
Russians came in and took over. Uh he was much anti Russian as was his
wife, Hanna. And so they were not well liked by the new regime. He escaped
over the line and it sounds like third man theme. Uh He went into a bar
guy came in with a green feather in his hat. When the guy tipped his hat,
John was to follow him. And when he tipped his hat again, he was to run
across the border and that's the way he got out, couldn't take his wife
because she, that wouldn't have worked. And she was very ill anyway. She
was not, well at all, she was in prison. In fact, and they decided the
government at that time, it was cheaper to throw her out in the streets
than would let her die in prison. So she was out in the street again, two
months later, she got out and she got out because she didn't know what to
do. She went to the border and she ran right at the guard and it's so
surprised to, they didn't do anything. She went right past him into
Germany and uh took her a month to find John. He was working for an
American contractor who was working in Germany. Uh, as soon as they both
got through, the contractor said I'll sponsor you back to the US if you
want to go and I'll support you for a while. So he did. But out on Long
Island, he had this estate with a, with a gatehouse and so he stocked it
with food and everything and said you, you can stay here till you're on
your feet. So John in some short amount of time got a job with one of the
best structural firms in town. He decided he wanted to get his master's
what town was in. Well, it was New York City that was uh we Weisinger
Weissinger, Weisinger, something like that. The firm, well known firm. He
went to Oklahoma State. I don't know why he picked Oklahoma State, but he
went there and he got his master's and the day he got his master's, they
made him chairman of the department
because you just knew everything and everybody better than anybody else.
And he built that department and uh and the structural, he built the
structural especially and he produced some just outstanding phd S. I'm not
, he was my mentor, but I'm not including one of these uh uh JT Oden uh
has more international awards than any family member in the country. Uh
For he was awarded everything he was in find elements that area. He ended
up in Texas. We I tried to hire him very hard and uh he was willing to
come. Truman had a rule that if you got your phd there, you couldn't teach
there for two years, you had to go someplace else, learn some other things
and then you could consider coming back. So was available and uh we were
pretty good friends uh, and he was gonna come, it was all set and the
paperwork got snowed over in the dean, in the President's office someplace
this is here at, here at A U. And eventually, uh, JT called me and said I
can't wait any longer. I'm gonna have to accept a different offer. Uh, he
wasn't trying to jack the money up or anything. You just said it's over,
you know, over. So, but he produced, uh you know, people who were chairman
of departments and dean and all of uh a very unusual man.
He wrote books like other people wrote letters. He just, uh he had uh 19
books in print at one time.
He was the highest paid author of mcgraw Hill, which is the big
engineering. He got the, the rest of the authors got about 10%. He got 15%
on all the books that were sold. His, his last book was an engineering
handbook. This mathematics were unbelievable. It was a mathematics
handbook and it went into publication. The 1st 10,000 went was $70. 1st
10,000 were sold before it ever went to print. The next 10,000 were sold
when it went to print, it was a 3rd 10,000 before you could buy one place
and, and he got $10 per book. You can add that up pretty quick, you know.
And uh he had a whole bunch of books that they translated in the foreign
languages. He sold 5000 books a year at the University of Mexico.
Uh But anyway, and, and at half of this, he was, uh you got every teaching
excellent award that offered. Then the uh Western House has one nationally.
You got that. He had every one of them a work. And I had the benefit of
having an office next to him. In fact, my big benefit was I had, he had
one side and I on the other side, no, Charlie Hoyt had left when he, when
he finishes, uh, his chairmanship, he, he left, went to Dame and Ward. Uh
, but I had this office between these two guys.
Charlie Ho hummed. Hm. I whistled. I do it without knowing. I'm doing it.
And John Toas smoked one cigar in the morning. We, we all got there about
seven o'clock. We knew who was there.
There was the Hummer in the cigar or, you know, uh, his office door was
never closed.
He, he, uh, welcomed every student that came by. He always had a large
black board in his office. He didn't show them how to do anything. He put
him at the board and they, they figured it out. Uh, the, uh, most orderly
person you ever saw, he, he was writing something when they came in, he
was in the middle of a sentence. He dropped the pen, pushed over work with
him. Pick it up and start writing in the same place again. He had a, a
matrix table in his drawer, uh, for Masters students.
Ok. Here's a subject that can be done or here's what they could look at
this matrix and pick out a subject topic. You mean? You mean a thesis
topic? The top masters thesis? Uh, he, uh, anyway, just, he did everything
so well. He, he, he, he totally bludgeoned the stock market. He worked out
a system on this, they say no system. That's not true. John Toomey had a
system and he, and he held to it, he tried to explain it to me one time
that he kept 15 stocks that he kept order of. They had all kinds of
criteria and they could move on or off his list. We got to a certain point
to sold 50%. We got to another point. Um, I don't know how much he had. I
, I know that he was paying income one time. He told me he paid $60,000
income tax. And I said, boy, you must hate that. He said, I love it being
in this country. He said that's cheap price to pay for all in here. Oh, he
uh, well, I, and he, he never lorded it over anybody. You know, he never,
he called the student scholar. They come to the door and say, come in
scholar and uh they, they uh, they all ended up liking him.
He had some unique ways of doing things. What wasn't every faculty member
that agreed exactly with the way he did it. But, uh, for, he didn't
believe in math courses, graduate degree, you got to some point in the
problem you're working on and then you learned the math, you needed to
solve that problem and you didn't want until you learn that and then you
started the rest of the way. Uh,
so he died early, his wife died, died about the time I retired. Uh, yeah,
his wife, it's another indication of his strength. You know, he had cancer
and his wife was still ill really. She never became really healthy and she
was in the health care center over at the hospital and he had the cancer.
He had to go in, he couldn't manage. So he, they were both in the health
care center. He willed himself to live past her. I mean, when they started
, he should have died first. But he just, that was, and when he died, he
got himself released from the hospital for the night. And a group of 10 of
us went to the restaurant and toasted his wife, Hannah and he had this
empty chair with a rose in it.
No,
you hear that? So, so
we got his uh was just getting ready to enter college when he, when we
enticed to, to move here or the fact that I was here and Phil was here and
there were some things we some leverage we had. But he came here and his
son kept, went into civil engineering. Well, the son was no, John, the son
could fix anything. I mean, he figured out some way to work the camera
without, you know, he just solved problems and he, he bought an old beat
up boat that nobody wanted. He fixed it all up. He, he raced the boat, uh
, but he wasn't a good student and he was in my class like here the D and
I went to see John. I said, you know, John, I can't consciously give him
anything but ad I said that's what he earned. He said I'd give him the
so the sun uh inherited which must, must have been a tremendous amount of
money. But he also bought land in still water. Nobody wanted land in still
water. It was all swamp. He bought a section of land. He traded old car
for a section of swamp land. He eventually bought the, built the country
club on the land that he had there. Is that the Oklahoma State country
club? Not the carton carton, the private club? Yeah. Uh
and the books, you know, just the money that he made off books alone had
to be tremendous. The stock market. Uh And so the son inherited all this
stuff, I guess he had no relatives left in Czechoslovakia had no relatives
in this country. He had no relatives and
his son married the heir to the Heinz fortune. Now the sun is a highly uh
desirable contractor, general superintendent because if the tractor
doesn't start or the thing he goes out and starts it, you know, he had his
skills and John never thought, never took it. He never tried to do
anything about it. You know, he just kid went, he got a degree, got, got
his civil enginery degree. Uh Did he go back to Czechoslovakia after the
wall went down when, when they finally tricked the Russians out, the Czech
fighting government invited all the living members of the junta back.
There were 18 left out of the 100 they symbolically turned the country
over to the at 18. So John was the leader, right again, he had the cancer
at the time. This was in 86 or 80 somewhere in there. 87. Uh
Yeah, he was dead. Uh
You went back later. You don't need, he had a huge library, you can guess.
And it was a French German Check Italian. He could read all the languages.
Uh oh and he, of course he didn't have a phd
and nobody dared say anything, you know, cause uh but he finally decided
to maybe it would be a good idea. So when he was, he, when he left
Oklahoma State, he actually spent seven years in Boulder Colorado and he
was writing books. He guested on their university, but he wasn't a member
of faculty. Um
Where would I go? I thought so he got his phd, he got his phd. They gave
him a phd just based on, on his helping them. And, and he was there seven
years. So he did a lot then he, he went to Switzerland for a semester to
the University of Zurich and he had just finished a book on advanced
dynamics. Way beyond anything anybody had ever published. They gave a phd.
So we had two. We called it Doc Weird.
How did you convince him to come to Tempe? Well, I got to know him, of
course, pretty well when he was my advisor and, and, and uh Lewis knew him
well and was well like, and uh he just wanted to get a little change in
what he was doing. He loved to teach undergraduates. He, he never, never
had a semester, neither did I never had a semester that I didn't teach an
undergraduate course. But, but John never did. He, he, he taught statics,
he taught state materials. Uh and he loved it, you know, and so this was
an opportunity for him to come here. Uh And uh in fact, he told when he
got to the retirement stage, uh he said, yeah, I'll retire but I'll teach
for nothing if you just give me an office
because that's what he wanted to do. He was so organized. He got up every
morning at five o'clock,
walked the dog and had a smoke, his cigar, got home about six Hannah fixed
him breakfast. He was in the office at seven. Never left the office, took
his lunch. Never, never up, went home at five o'clock,
read the paper had fun with, with Hanna, you know, conversation, nine
o'clock went into his office in his home and worked till midnight and he
got up at five o'clock the next morning, you know. Uh, and I don't know
that it ever changed.
Good story. Yeah, he's, well, everybody, no, I shouldn't say that there
were people that didn't understand his system, especially, uh,
well, I think one of my great honors was at my retirement. He said I was
the brother he never had,
uh, at the end of the story.
Ok.
No, that's ok. I have a little bit of, strangely, I have a little throat
problem. I had surgery. The one thing that sometimes gives you trouble
with water and the reason is, you know, being injury, you wonder why the
hell is water giving? It's, uh, too light a weight to trigger the mech
swallowing mechanism. Um, what you do is I don't do it too much now, but
for a long time I thickened the water. You buy thickener and you put it in
the water and it doesn't change the taste, but it increases the weight,
what it is. It's a pressure activated, uh, gate and the, the weight has to
activate it to decide whether the food is going into the lungs or into the
stomach. Uh, that's where you, where you get the bad pneumonia when the
food goes into the, into the lungs. So, this little gate is there and
depending on that way, the trips it or doesn't trip it. And, uh, so water
, uh, will cause me to cough. I only draw, swallowing, you know, it's not
a matter of choking or anything, but I'll get a cough that goes on for
five minutes or something like that. And water, water is one of the things
that still does it. I mean, I had chili for lunch, you know, uh, you'd
think, but that's heavy. See that, that, that triggers the system. Well,
Mexican food, no problem. Alcohol. No. And I don't know if that's the same.
No, alcohol is burned, was burned. I think when they did the surgery they
maybe took a coating of some kind off that protected it. But I take a sip
of Manhattan. You'd be scraping me off that ceiling.
But that's a little enough penalty to pay for being able to do as I do. No.
Well, um, are you rolling yet? John,
uh, the other name there is Lewis Hill. I don't know if you want to
elaborate more on Lewis. I think he was your first mentor here. Yeah,
Lewis, uh, came in here to teach. Oh, you go, came in here to teach just
about the time I came over to the class because there wasn't any
engineering prior to 58. That was the beginning. And so, uh I think the
class I took was probably the first class maybe spring of 58 or something
like that. Uh And uh two and I got to hit it was, we were all people in
that class who had experience it. We didn't have an undergraduate coming
up yet for the graduate course. So these were all people who worked in
town uh and myself with the Salt River project. And uh so we, we and Lewis
had practical experience and so we all linked fairly well. We, we, we were
together on what we were doing. Uh And then when I got the offer of the
job here and I uh Lewis of course, and I became closer because now we were
seeing each other every day and they were and uh he was uh he did me some
favors along the line in terms of support. Uh It was, he was only,
well, it was what, 14 years after, not quite, probably 12 years after I
came uh that he became chairman. And so we had a period there where we, we
were just trucks, faculty and we were highly productive that time. And um
he became chairman, we didn't really replace him and, and we, we eroded uh
at that time, but no Lewis was a benefactor. Uh
That's where a lot of people, if I didn't, uh
nobody does it on their own, you know, and, and I sure didn't
for the Deans. Now we had Thompson that was in there for
20 years, maybe. Yeah. Then you had Roland Hayden. Yeah. Uh, just compare
those two personalities. Uh, you are trying to get me in trouble.
Uh, I thought Lee Thompson was a wonder. They have both deceased now, you
know that, but that doesn't make any difference on what I would say. Uh,
Lee Lee did, you know Lee didn't have uh an engineering degree, Lee
Thompson did. Raley's phd was in physics from the University of Indiana.
Oh, but Lee had this, what I thought at that time was the right concept
which was loaded. We were all about the same age. All, all the faculty uh
was to load up with people who had experience and uh and tell the stories
in class. Um you know, humanize engineering a little bit when they build
GW it was built basically on groups of, on 2nd, 3rd floor of four offices
, four suites, four suites, four suites. His rule was no two could be from
the same department because you had to face with these people and you had
to know them and you had to know things that they do. And I thought that
was wonderful. Uh I got to know Charlie Hoyt, uh you know, he was
industrial engineering so he couldn't be down in the industrial
engineering area. Uh So, and the Lee was a,
I don't know, he, he wasn't particularly a warm person but he was, uh, he
listened, uh, and he had, uh, had some help. He had George Beakley
listening for him at the time. Uh,
if you needed to see Lee Thompson, you, you call the office and, and, uh,
Joan Minal, uh, would, uh, say, well, are you in your office? Yeah. Well,
I'll give you a call in 10 minutes when he's free. You go down. That was
fine, you know. Uh, and, uh, um, he was, he, he did a really good job and
I think
any other system might not have worked as well. At that time
when, when Thompson retired,
there was a, a change in the way funding was prior to that, there was a
lot more federal and state funding for research. NSF was much bigger. N
DEA was big. The Navy had huge research funding. Uh And so most of our
funding, most of our research was funded in that way. This is prior to
Hayden. Yes, prior to Hayden. And so some, few years before Hayden, it
became evident that the, the funding was drying up. Not entirely but with
a different ball game. Uh, first of all, they refused to fund equipment,
you had to find some funding for the equipment. Well, the older schools,
Purdue,
they already had the equipment that made it tough to get the, the funding
because you were putting in some money for equipment and they already had
this equipment, you know, Uh, so it changed the whole funding thing and
that's why I said something about if that's the different situation. So,
about that time, somewhere up above decided we needed to, to lean much
more toward research and, and private funding research. Civil engineering
has virtually no private funding research. The highway department is about
the only place. Construction companies do not fund research. A Isc and A I
si don't have much money. They're, they're, they're dependent upon
contractors to give money. So if you can get $10,000 out of, you're really
doing something. Uh I had a big contract with the ISIF supported two
faculty and two graduate students for four years on a si research. But
that, that was early uh that dried up. So they were looking for somebody
who would do that. And uh Roland appeared to be that man.
The funding he was looking for was highly electro engineering funding. Uh
some mechanical but we got to where we didn't uh when I retired, they
didn't replace me with the structures person. When John and Toomer died,
they didn't replace him with a because you didn't draw research money like
uh there was still some research money out there, but you had to get some
support from university to get it matching fund or that sort of thing. Oh
, and so this is leading in the later on, but that's what happened to
structures. And technically right now they have one man in structures,
huh? That's the past for Fetus.
Nice, neat guy. Features, concrete and L A. Very bright. Very, he, he's
got a huge amount of, of, uh, research unfunded research that he does. Uh
, is there much graduate program there or is it, does he teach undergrad?
He teaches, uh, I think, like, I didn't, like, do it, did he always
teaches one undergrad? I understand they no longer have the common core.
OK. So all the engineers wouldn't have to take a statics course.
No, that's right. Uh That's a tough question. The, the core didn't
disappear here. It was worked on, I mean, electro engineering. So we don't
really need statics. We, we don't use statics and we talked to him at the
court time and said, yes, you do. You need it, you need, you need to work
in the field with electronics people and all you at least need some but,
but the electric will say no, no, we can better use that course for
something else. So it wasn't a matter of the whole fact, they're not
really out of the court right now. They have, they have some combined
courses. Um I was talking to pastor. I see him often. The only, only
remnant of, of my time here that I see often. Oh And he teaches uh
numerical methods course that's used by mechanical and civil. So there's
still some core that's not totally independent, but it just, it kind of
eroded instead of e exploded, you know, it, uh, and I think that, that, uh
, Hayden was not really a supporter of the core. I think that the dean,
dean doesn't support it and other things are making it tough. Mm. It's
hard to do.
How about following deans? Like Chang and Crouch? I didn't know, I knew
Peter Crouch but he wasn't a dean when I knew him. Uh,
Chang wasn't here very long. Jane. No. Uh,
you go from Texas. My, my last major job was chairman of the search
committee for a replacement for, uh Tortilla, you know, tell me, what was
that gonna take it? And, uh, what's the guy's name
anyway? I was, I was, maybe it's better. I don't have his name. I was
chair of the, of that committee
and somehow George Beakley got the impression that Perdue wanted him for
chairman really, really bad.
Of course, I had connections back at Purdue. The department chairman,
civil was a good friend of mine back here.
He said who,
but he had convinced George and so the, the committee recommendation was
not to hire him. George convinced role in the Ireland.
Uh
So that was the politics kind of went that way. It's, uh, you know, I,
like I said, I don't want to be bitter. I'm not, it's a different
situation, a different world and, and, and more power to them to do what
they're doing. Uh George Beakley,
unusual man. Uh I was one of the ones that got along with them. Just great.
Uh, George did me a lot of favors in his position there. Uh, a lot of
warnings at times but what I was doing doing, uh,
George was, uh, an opportunist.
He waited till he saw which way the wind was blowing and then he fled the
tail. Uh, it's not all bad for an associate chairman. You know, somebody,
you gonna do the dirty work. Who's dean, the associate dean, somebody's
got to do. Uh Charlie Newland became one of my best friends. In fact, I
did the eulogy for Charlie when he died. Uh
and the eulogy for Charlie Hoyt. What do you think? Tell us a little about
Ho I've heard that name a cherub. That's what he looked like. Do you know
him short? Uh Good smile, uh Very bright. Uh Renaissance man, Charlie had
more capability and more things. He, you, he could play four bars of a
classic music piece and he would tell you who recorded it what it was and
what it was recorded. Uh He raised orchids here in Arizona. He had a
building built in the backyard, uh the air cooled off supper and he built
, he, he, he grew orchids. He was one of the first people to ever come up
with uh color. He, he had a chemical well start back for his father had a
machine shop in Indianapolis. That was the start. And so Charlie went to
Purdue and got a degree in mechanical engineering, I think, uh, move the
company to Mishawaka or Elkhart Elkhart. Uh,
and got, they had, the union started to get to him there, bother him. And
finally he gave the company to the union.
The juniors. Well, they were cheating each other all the time. The guys,
they finally came back and said, Charlie, will you manage it for us? You
know.
Um, he, uh was great in photography. He had, uh, he mixed all his own
chemicals. He, he didn't believe in buying fix or, or anything you made
your own. He had uh a, a pressurized room in the basement so he could
develop a lot of dust getting on anything. A great baseball fan. I see you
had to sit next to me at, at Packard. And, uh, when I did the eulogy, uh I
it was an open casket. I had an, a su baseball cap that I got from Bob
Winkles, uh and put it on them in the casket because he never missed a
gate. Uh, but he did all those things and he used to have that table in
the union. Did you aware that there was a table called Charlie's Table up
in the faculty dining area in that area and it was about 20 ft long and
people would leave early to get there so they could be at Charlie's table.
His gift was for and I knew him for a long time and, and well, he never
told the same story twice. Not ever.
Uh, that's tough how he does that, I don't know. I, you know, I, I have
about a half an hour span,
making sure that I told him at some other time. Uh,
really, really nice man. Called his wife the Dutchman. I forget what her
name was, but all he ever called her was the Dutchman. Uh, he, uh, but he
decided to die. It was something like doom in that respect. He had
pancreatitis cancer.
Uh back to uh he said
he just stopped eating. He said it's time each and that was it. Uh Let's
go back to baseball. I used to see you over there with, on the first base
side of 19.
Yeah, baseball is a big thing. It, it still is for me. I, I been to the
new stadium. You've been to the new stadium? Well, you mean the Met? Well
, I've been there years and years when they, when they played over there,
the funny story about that playing over there was uh we're playing, I
think we're playing the U A but I'm not sure the major the story, a light
plane hit the telephone, the electric wires uh in the river bottom there
landed. All right. But put out the lights in the stadium in the baseball
stadium. It was pitch black since it was borrowed. We didn't have the keys
to any place in there just go and play, you know, and while the lights
were out, somebody stole the second base came out and took it off in the
field. Did it?
The lights came back on and it was gone and we couldn't get in the, in the
reserve area to get another one. So the announcer said, would you please,
we turn the lights out, would you please put it back? They turned the
lights out and sure enough, and who had to throw it out to the,
uh, anyway, it was ba baseball is unique in that respect. Funny things
happen in almost every game in baseball. Funny things don't happen in
football. Very rarely do they happen in basketball. But I guarantee you in
every baseball game, there's something funny. I saw a guy threw his glove
with the ball the first base, you know, he couldn't get it out of his mid.
So he just threw the whole thing over there. Uh, what I see just
yesterday, something,
there was a funny one in, uh, in the down backs game was a play at first
base. Now, did you go up to Omaha for any of the? I never did that. I
should have and I would have really enjoyed it, but I did, uh, I know
people that go every year and a half for 30 years. We've got a guy over
here over at Tren Village. He has at this point in 30 years. But, uh, No,
but I'm, I'm a baseball fan. Uh, I, they, they play 100 and 60 games, the
Diamondbacks and I probably see part or all of 100 and 20 of them. I told
this,
I do, I do like baseball. I don't know where that was going, but talk
about some of your interaction with students. You were telling me you took
field trips and one of them was to Glen Canyon Dam before it was built. Oh
, she wouldn't, wouldn't let me do half the things I did when, when I had
, when they were building the Glen Canyon Dam,
they had a foot bridge, suspension bridge across the canyon downstream. So
the people could get across because of the residents on one side. I took
the students up there and we walked out on that suspension bridge. Uh,
never could do it today. Wouldn't allow us to do it. They build a 30 story
building downtown, I'd, I'd take the shooting down so they could see what
it's like. And there'd be no banister on the outside. It would be a rope,
outlining the outside. Um, climb the stairs. We had to climb ladders to
get up to the floor. Man, you couldn't do it today. You couldn't do it. Uh
That would be another one of my things. But, uh, students,
they enjoyed the stories, they really did and I think they were worthwhile.
There were people that said, well, you should be doing more technical
stuff than just telling the whole war story. I don't think so. I, I think
that was part of, of uh, of their believing me for one thing. No. And
maybe they didn't believe me, but at least they, they acted like they did.
But uh uh I had a lot of great students, really great students. Uh
I'll tell you another little tumor story tuba and me, I guess. But we are
a, a female, a lady student getting your phd in structures. And she had
been assigned to one of the other structures faculty. I won't use the name
because you start me on that. We're here till tomorrow. Uh He would, she
would, he, he would say, OK, now, here's, we're defining this problem.
She'd solve that problem. And I'd say, OK, here's another problem. Here's
another problem. And then he was publishing each one of these without her
name. She'd solve it. And she came to me, she was married, she was a
registered engineer. She, she had worked in industry, her husband was a
narc here in Phoenix. And uh she did beautiful work, just gorgeous
enduring work. She came to me and she was, you know, just in tears and she
said, I've got to leave the program because I, I can't stand it any longer.
I've got to get to work and help support the family and, and I said, well
, why don't you get a different advisor? And she said, he told me, if, if
, if I left him, he would blackball me and every other faculty member here.
And I said, well, we'll see. So I went down to the chair when I told him
the story and I said she needs to be changed. And he said, well, who take
her? I said, two will take her. I had a couple already right then. So she
went to Tumor, got her phd. She's Dean of Engineering over in California.
Now,
Debbie Larson, the name, her husband was a narc, what is that, uh,
narcotic, uh, policeman. He'd go undercover all the time. And, yeah, I go
to see when we get together after she got it. I made a friend with her one
time. He'd come in, he'd have tattoos and be grimy next time he was all
dressed, you know, and, uh, she went up to, from here, she, we couldn't
hire her. They wouldn't hire here and she had, it's perfect, you know,
students gave me the highest report. Uh, she got, they offer a job up at
NAU. She went up there and became department of the civil engineering
chairman. And, uh, they offered her husband a job on the n because he was
in Phoenix. He said no, they weren't excited enough.
Yeah. So I'm interested where he is now. She's in California. I've got to
send her an email. But, uh, wonderful girl. So, after you retired, uh,
Harry, uh, hobbies, travel, uh, committees at Friendship Village. What are
you doing? Well, travel was a big thing. So, when, and we, uh, we did what
we call camping, which was a motor home. You know, we never slept on the
ground. But, uh, we, we, we traveled that way and, and really enjoyed it,
traveled a lot, two or three month trips. And, uh, and I always liked
history. History has always been, I, I figured if I hadn't been an
engineer, I'd probably been a historian. Maybe I wouldn't have been
success at it, but I would have enjoyed it. So I read, I took all the
courses over at Scottsdale Community College in History and they had a
fantastic history teacher over there. Um I took them all for credit cause
I would never let a student audit a course because if they audited, they
didn't pay attention, you know, they had to work at it. So I uh rule was
good for them. It was good for me. So I took the classes over there and,
uh read a lot of history, but I've read everything I still do. I, I'll,
I'll read a biography and, and I'll read a murder mystery and, uh I enjoy
them all. So, uh and those two things occupied a lot of our time and
photography. It's always been a hobby back in film days. I had darkroom,
the color printing, color and uh black and white. And then when digital
came along that I struggled with that for a while. But uh it always made
me mad, you know, when I went on film, I wanted to do some solarization.
It was a three hour job I get here and I get the software and it's 10
seconds. That's not as good as I think. I'm gonna tell you. Uh I'm still,
I still have my old film cameras and if I could use the one camera that I
have there, I would drop the digital immediately. But, and just too much
of a struggle to use film. Now you can get it done. Temp camera repairer
sells film and, and develops it, but it's still, you know, so, but anyway
, so that's been a big hobby of mine. Um,
a mixture of artist and photographer. I, I took art at the Chicago Art
Institute when I lived in Chicago and did some art but I was never, never
thought I was good. I, I never was satisfied. I did part of it look good.
I didn't like the rest of it. So my approach in photography is, uh I'm
really trying to create art when I do it. Uh It's different from trying to
get the most resolution possible that that's not of interest to me. Uh My
interest is if you look at it and say, hey, that's neat. That's all,
that's all I care about. So I spend a fair amount of time with that in
spells.
I have exhibited a little bit but very, very minor.
So, what's your committee work over at Friendship Village?
Well, the biggest one is the appreciation fund for the employees. I don't
know if y'all are aware of that. We don't tip over there. No tip in a lot.
They take a tip. They're fire. Uh, so what, what they do instead to make
it attractive to employees, they, they do treat them well. Uh, they have a
big Christmas party and it's not there. It's at the Hilton someplace with
a 16 piece orchestra and, you know, the whole bit. But also we, we collect
money on a voluntary basis from the residents and it's, it's about a month
long process where we do make them aware of the fact that what they're
getting. Um, last year we raised $260,000.
Uh, we have 500 employees. They wouldn't all qualify and some are, are
no minimum part time. There's some that just come in and kind of a
contract basis, you know. Uh, but, uh, there's, there's got to be over 400
full time factor or, uh, employees. And so that we have a formula for
breaking that money out. It's not based on your salary. It's, it's based
on how long you've been there. And, uh, how many hours you worked that
year and that sort of thing. But, uh, the, uh, the highest paid people get
the same I'm out is the lowest rate in there. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it works
, it works. Uh, we have
tr relationships with the employees. Uh, they look at us like grandparents
, you know, and, and not a day I don't get a hug from somebody. Some
employee, even the lady that cleans our house, make sure she comes in and
gives me a hug before she goes, you know. Uh, one of them one day said,
hey, my fiance is out in the parking lot. I want you to meet him, you know
, come on out and meet my fiance. Uh, so the system works pretty well and
they work at it. You know, they, they do some decent things when they have
their own cafeteria in, in the complex and some things are free. So the
food soup is always free. Uh, whatever they have to pay for is low price,
you know. Uh, it's certainly not a place for everybody. I have friends
that don't, still don't understand. I've been here 10 years and they don't
know why I'm there,
but it certainly is a place for me. Uh, I can't imagine. Do you know it?
Who's thinking about how I went through my surgery? Uh Everybody
contributed, you know, uh went out to Mayo's, they provided me
transportation in the first while, uh went in the health care center for
five weeks. And man, they nurtured me, you know, uh uh food. I started out
with the whole through the nose and then liquid and then the pureed and
they even pureed food, like they say, would you like a ham and cheese
sandwich today? Sure. They would puree the half slices of bread. They had
a mold to put them in and use dye to make them look like bread, the ham
and the cheese and the same thing you get this sandwich, it was pureed
food. But, uh, but, and uh, and then from there I went over the, to, to my
cottage,
my wife took care of the food thing from there on, uh, she was a big help.
She a huge help. Mhm. A bit about that.
Yeah, I'll tell you she's half idiot. And her Indian name is five horse
Ddddd.
That's what she did. She nagged me to eat that food and do this thing, do
whatever I want. Yeah. And, uh, I broke an ankle, you know, I think about
how it would be if I was in my house, I wouldn't know if it was broken or
not. I called the A IL, they come down and look at it and say it probably
is. But we get you over to the X ray. All this takes place within an hour
or so. And I, and say, yeah, it is broken and make an appointment tomorrow
and I'm back in the house, you know, if I was at home doing that, it would
be two or three days the time I got the right orthopedic and you know, so
being the lazy kind of person that I am, I'm a good fit. Been there 10
years now.
What made you decide to move from your home, your comfortable home?
And there was somebody that you knew there. We did. I did know some people.
Yes. Uh Jack and Ann uh Bob and Anne Armstrong were friends of ours and a
fellow named Roscoe Hildebrand structural engineer. Did you know Roscoe?
No, he was head of the uh building inspection department. City of Phoenix.
Uh So we did know those people, but we got to where the things we had to
do around the house were tasks the yard work. So we finally, we hired
someone to do the yard work now that the go up on the roof and, and do
something up there, you gotta climb the ladder and uh these things just
evolved and all of a sudden, Roscoe said, gee, I don't do any of those
things. They won't even let us change a light bulb because they don't want
you getting up even on a chair or something. So, uh I don't know, you know
, again, I think that's one of those things that wasn't this, that was
little bit dream. Maybe, maybe there's some place that does this and it
was, it was gradual. We were probably a year and a half in the process. Do
you have Children? No, we don't. So all those grandchildren that work over
there. Yeah. Are, are good friends of ours. Uh, I have nieces and nephews
that live here. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, no, it's, uh, I, I, that's a good
question. I don't know what the instrument was when we decided to come
over here. I don't know when that was.
No, that's ok. I have a little bit of, strangely, I have a little throat
problem. I had surgery. The one thing that sometimes gives me trouble with
water and the reason is, you know, being an engineer, you wonder why the
hell is water giving. It's, uh, too light a weight to trigger the mech
swallowing mechanism. Um, what you do is I don't do it too much now, but
for a long time I thickened the water. You can buy thickener and you put
it in the water and it doesn't change the taste, but it increases the
weight. What it is. It's a pressure activated, uh, gate and the, the
weight has to activate it to decide whether the food is going into the
lungs or into the stomach. Uh, that's where you, where you get the bad
pneumonia when the food goes into the, into the lungs. So, this little
gate is there and depending on that way it trips it or doesn't trip it.
And, uh, so water, uh, will cause me to cough. I only told swallowing, you
know, it's not a matter of choking or anything, but I'll get a cough that
goes on for five minutes or something like that. And water, water is one
of the things that still does it. I mean, I had chili for lunch, you know
, uh, you'd think, but that's heavy. See, that, that, that triggers the
system. Well, Mexican food, no problem. Alcohol. No. And I don't know if
that's the same. No, alcohol just burns was burned. I think when they did
the surgery they maybe took a coating of some kind off that protected it.
But I take a sip of Manhattan. You'd be scraping me off that ceiling.
But that's a little enough penalty to pay for being able to do as I do. No.
Well, um, are you rolling yet? John,
uh, the other name there is Lewis Hill. I don't know if you want to
elaborate more on Lewis. I think he was your first mentor here. Yeah,
Louis uh, came in here to teach or you go, came in here to teach just
about the time I came over to the class because there wasn't any
engineering prior to 58. That was the beginning. And so, uh, I think the
class I took was probably the first class maybe spring of 58 or something
like that. Uh, and uh two and I got to hit it was, we were all people in
that class who had experience it. We didn't have an undergraduate coming
up yet for the graduate course. So these were all people who worked in
town uh and myself who was the Salt River project. And uh so we, we and
Lewis had practical experience and so we all linked fairly well. We, we,
we were together on what we were doing. Uh And then when I got the offer
of the job here and I uh Lewis of course, and I became closer because now
we were seeing each other every day and there was, and uh he was, uh he
did me some favors along the line in terms of support. Uh It was, he was
only,
well, it was what, 14 years after, not quite, probably 12 years after I
came uh that he became chairman. And so we had a period there where we, we
were just structures, faculty and we were highly productive that time and
um he became chairman, we didn't really replace him and, and we, we eroded
uh at that time, but no Lewis was a, a benefactor. Uh
That's where a lot of people I didn't. Uh
nobody does it on their own, you know, and, and I sure didn't
for the deans. Now we had Thompson that was in there for
20 years, maybe. Yeah. Then you had Roland Hayden. Yeah. Uh just compare
those two personalities. Uh You are trying to get me in trouble.
Uh I thought Lee Thompson was a wonder. They have both deceased now, you
know that, but that doesn't make any difference on what I would say. Uh Le
le did, you know, Lee didn't have uh an engineering degree. Lee Thompson
did. S phd was in Physics from the University of Indiana. Uh
But Lee had this, what I thought at that time was the right concept which
was loaded. We were all about the same age. All, all the faculty uh was to
load up with people who had experience and uh and tell the stories in
class. Um you know, humanize engineering a little bit when they build GW
it was built basically on groups of, on 2nd, 3rd floor of four offices,
four suites, four suites, four suites. His rule was no two could be from
the same department because you had to face with these people and you had
to know them and you had to know things that they do and I thought that
was wonderful. Uh I got to know Charlie Hoyt. Uh you know, he was
industrial engineering so he couldn't be down in the industrial
engineering area. Uh So in the Lee was a,
I don't know, he, he wasn't particularly a warm person but he was, uh he
listened, uh and he had uh had some help. He had George Beakley listening
for him at the time. Uh
If you needed to see Lee Thompson, you, you call the office and, and uh
Joan Minal uh would uh say, well, are you in your office? Yeah. Well, I'll
give you a call in 10 minutes when he's free. You go down, that was fine,
you know. Uh And, uh, um he was, he, he did a really good job and I think
any other system might not have worked as well. At that time
when, when Thompson retired,
there was a, a change in the way funding was prior to that, there was a
lot more federal and state funding for research. NSF was much bigger. N
DEA was big. The Navy had huge research funding. Uh And so most of our
funding, most of our research was funded in that way. This is prior to
Hayden. Yes, prior to Hayden. And so some few years before Hayden, it
became evident that the funding was drying up, not entirely but with a
different ball game. Uh First of all, they refused to fund equipment, you
had to find some funding for the equipment. Well, the older schools,
Purdue,
they already had the equipment that made it tough to get the, the funding
because you were putting in some money for equipment and they already had
the equipment, you know. Uh so it changed the whole funding thing and
that's why I said something about if that's in a different situation. So
about that time, someone up above decided we needed to, to lean much more
toward research and, and private funding. Research, civil engineering has
virtually no private funding research. The highway department is about the
only place. Construction companies do not fund the research A ISC and A I
si don't have much money. They're, they're, they're dependent upon
contractors to give money. So if you can get $10,000 out of, you're really
doing something. Uh I had a big contract with the ISIF supported two
faculty and two graduate students for four years on a si research but that
it was early uh that dried up. So they were looking for somebody who would
do that. And uh Roland appeared to be that man.
The funding he was looking for was highly electro engineering funding. Uh
some mechanical. But we got to where we didn't uh when I retired, they
didn't replace me with the structures person. When John and Toomer died,
they didn't replace him with a because you didn't draw research money.
Like uh there was still some research money out there but you had to get
some support from university to get it and matching fund or that sort of
thing. Uh And so this is leading in the later on, but that's what happened
to structures. And technically right now they have one man in structures.
Huh? That's a pastor for Fetus.
Nice neat guy. Features concrete and L A. Very bright. Very. He's, he's
got a huge amount of, of uh research unfunded research that he does. Uh is
is there much graduate program there or is it, does he teach undergrad?
He teaches uh I think like I didn't like do it, did he always teaches one
undergrad? I understand. They no longer have the common core.
OK. So all the engineers wouldn't have to take a statics course.
No, that's right. Uh That's a tough question. The, the core didn't
disappear here. It was worked on. I mean, electro engineering. So we don't
really need statics. We, we don't use statics and we talked to him at the
court time and said, yes, you do. You need it, you need, you need to work
in the field with electronics people and all you at least need some but,
but the electric will say no, no, we can better use that course for
something else. So it wasn't a matter of the whole fact, they're not
really out of the core right now. They have, they have some combined
courses. Um I was talking to pastor, I see him often, the only, only
remnant of, of my time there that I see often. Uh And he teaches a
numerical methods course that's used by mechanical and civil. So there's
still some core that's not totally independent, but it just, it kind of
eroded instead of e exploded, you know it. Uh And I think that that uh
Hayden was not really a supporter of the core. I think that the dean, dean
doesn't support it and other things are making it tough. Mm It's hard to
do.
How about following deans like Chang and Crouch? I didn't know them. I, I
knew Peter Crouch but he wasn't a dean when I knew him. Uh, Chang wasn't
here very long, Jane. No. Uh,
the guy from Texas, my, my last major job was chairman of the search
committee for a replacement for, uh Tortilla. Really? Well, tell me, what
was that gonna take it? And, uh, what's the guy's name
anyway? I was, I was, maybe it's better. I don't have his name. I was
chair of the, of that committee
and somehow George Beachley got the impression that Purdue wanted him for
chairman really, really bad.
Of course, I had connections back at Purdue. The department chairman,
civil was a good friend of mine back there.
He said who,
but he had convinced George and so the, the committee recommendation was
not to hire him. George convinced role in the Irish.
Uh
So that was the politics kind of went that way. It's, uh, you know, I,
like I said, I don't want to be bitter. I'm not, it's a different
situation, a different world and, and, and more power to them to do what
they're doing. George Beakley,
unusual man. Uh I was one of the ones that got along with them. Just great.
Uh, George did me a lot of favors in his position there. Uh, a lot of
warnings at times, but what I would do two, uh
George was uh an opportunist.
He waited till he saw which way the wind was blowing and then he fled the
tail. Uh It's not all bad for an associate chairman, you know, somebody,
you gonna do the dirty work, who's dean, the associate dean? Somebody's
got to do the dirty work. And, uh,
I got into it with Raymond one with, uh Payton one time severely. And, uh
, I stopped out of the office, went upstairs and I got a phone call from
George. He said, you better get down here and apologize for bull and he's
trying to figure out how to fire you. But I said, oh, no, I don't know
what I can do, you know. And, uh, that was kind of the end of it. So ro
and I never hit it off.
Well, we'd, we'd meet each other in the hall and I'd say hello at times
and I think I would have been all right with all of that except my last,
with, he called me down to the office and he said, I want to tell you how
much I enjoyed working with you
and he was leaving. I was, I was retiring.
Oh, good. I, so ple please edit that if you think that it's not something
that should be said, but it's the price that you're having me here is I
had at least because the only person there that I ever really had any
trouble with. No, uh, Charlie Uland became one of my best friends. In fact
, I did the eulogy for Charlie when he died. Uh,
and the eulogy for, for Charlie Hoyt, what do you think, tell us a little
about Hoyt, I've heard that name. A Cherub. That's what he looked like. Do
you know him short? Uh Good smile, uh Very bright. Uh Renaissance man,
Charlie had more capability and more things. He, you, he could play four
bars of a classic music piece and he would tell you who recorded it, what
it was and what it was recorded. Uh He raised orchids here in Arizona. He
had a building built in the backyard and the air cooled all supper. And he
built, he, he, he grew orchids. He was one of the first people to ever
come up with uh color. He, he had a chemical, well, start back for his
father had a machine shop in Indianapolis. That was the start. And so
Charlie went to Purdue and got a degree in mechanical engineering, I think
, uh moved the company to Mishawaka or Elkhart, Elkhart. Uh
and got, they had the union started to get to him there, bother him.
Finally, he gave the company to the union,
the jurors. Well, they were cheating each other all the time. The guys,
they finally came back and said, Charlie, will you manage it for us? You
know.
Um, he uh was great in photography. He had, uh, he makes all his own
chemicals. He, he didn't believe in buying fix or, or anything you made
your own. He had uh a, a pressurized room in the basement so he could
develop a lot of dust getting on anything. A great baseball fan. I see you
had to sit next to me at, at Packard. And, uh, when I did the eulogy, uh,
I, it was an open casket. I had an, a su baseball cap that I got from Bob
Winkles, uh, and put it on them in the casket because he never missed a
gate. Uh, but he did all those things and he used to have that table in
the union. Did you aware that there was a table called Charlie's Table up
in the faculty dining area in that area? And it was about 20 ft long and
people would leave early to get there so they could be at Charlie's table.
His gift was for and I knew him a long time and, and well, he never told
the same story twice. Not ever.
Uh That's tough how he does that, I don't know. I, you know, I, I have
about a half an hour span of making sure that I told him at some other
time. Uh
Really, really nice man, called his wife the Dutchman. I forget what her
name was, but all he ever called her was the Dutchman. Uh He, uh but he
decided to die. He was something like doom in that respect. He had
pancreatitis cancer.
Uh back to uh he said, well, he just stopped eating. He said it's time we
stopped eating and that was it. Uh Let's go back to baseball. I used to
see you over there with Beakley on the first base side of 19.
Yeah, baseball is a big thing. It, it still is for me. I, I been to the
new stadium. You've been to the new stadium? Well, you mean the Met? Well
, I've been there years and years when, when they played there, the funny
story about that playing over there was, uh, we're playing, I think we're
playing the U A but I'm not sure the major the story, a light plane hit
the telephone, the electric wires uh in the river bottom there landed. All
right. But put out the lights in the stadium in the baseball stadium, it
was pitch black since it was borrowed. We didn't have the keys to any
place in there. Just go and play, you know, and while the lights were out
, somebody stole the second vase came out and took it off in the field.
Did it. The, the lights came back on and it was gone and we couldn't get
in the, in the reserve area to get another one. So the announcer said,
would you please, we'll turn the lights out. Would you please put it back
? They turned the lights out and sure enough who had to throw it out in
the
uh anyway, it was ba baseball is unique in that respect. Funny things
happen in almost every game in baseball. Funny things don't happen in
football. Very rarely. Do they happen in basketball? But I guarantee you
in every baseball game, there's something funny, I saw a guy threw his
glove with the ball the first base, you know, he couldn't get it out of
his mid, so he just threw the whole thing over there. Uh, what I see just
yesterday. Something,
there, there, there was a funny one in, uh, in the down backs game was a
play at first base. Now, did you go up to Omaha for any of the? I never
did that. I should have and I would have really enjoyed it. But Egypt, uh
, I know people that go every year and a half for 30 years. We've got a
guy over here over at Tren Village. He has at this point in 30 years. But
, uh, no, but I'm, I'm a baseball fan. Oh, I, they, they play 100 and 60
games, the Diamondbacks and I probably see part or all of 100 and 20 of
them and told us
I do, I do like baseball. I don't know where that was going. But, uh, talk
about some of your interaction with students. You were telling me you took
field trips and one of them was to Glen Canyon Dam before it was built. Oh
, she wouldn't, wouldn't let me do half the things I did when I had, when
they were building Glen Canyon Dam,
they had a foot bridge, suspension bridge across the canyon downstream. So
the people could get across because of the residents on one side. I took
the students up there and we walked out on that suspension bridge. Uh,
never could do it today. Wouldn't allow us to do it. They build a 30 story
building downtown. I, I'd take the shooting down so they could see what
it's like. And there'd be no banister on the outside. It would be a rope,
outlining the outside. Um, climb the stairs. We had to climb ladders to
get up to the floor. Man. You couldn't do it today. You couldn't do it. Uh
That would be another one of my thanks. But uh students,
they enjoyed the stories. They really did and I think they were worthwhile.
There were people that said, well, you should be doing more technical
stuff than just telling the whole war story. I don't think so. I, I think
that was part of, of uh of their believing me for one thing. No. And maybe
they didn't believe me, but at least they, they acted like they did. But
uh uh I had a lot of great students, really great students. Uh
I'll tell you another little tumor story tuba and me, I guess, but we had
a, a female, a lady student getting your phd in structures and she had
been assigned to one of the other structures, faculty. I won't use the
name because you start me on that. We're here till tomorrow. Uh He would
she would, he, he would say, ok. Now, here's, we're defining this problem.
She'd solve that problem. And he'd say, ok, here's another problem.
Here's another problem. And then he was publishing each one of these
without her name, she'd solve it. And she came to me, she was married, she
was a registered engineer. She, she had worked in industry. Her husband
was a narc here in Phoenix. And uh she did beautiful work, just gorgeous,
enjoying work. She came to me and she was, you know, just in tears. And
she said, I've got to leave the program because I, I can't stand it any
longer. I've got to get to work and help support the family. And, and I
said, well, why don't you get a different advisor? And she said, he told
me if, if, if I left him, he would blackball me and every other faculty
member here. And I said, well, we'll see. So I went down to the chair when
I told him the story and I said she needs to be changed. And he said, well
, who take her? I said two will take her. I had a couple already right
then. So she went to t got her phd, she's Dean of Engineering over in
California. Now,
Debbie Larson, the name, her husband was a narc. What is that uh narcotic
uh policeman? He'd go undercover all the time and you, you go to see, we,
we get together after she got it. I made a friend with her one time. He'd
come in and have tattoos and be grimy next time it was all dressed, you
know. And, uh, she went up to, from here she, we couldn't hire her, they
wouldn't hire here and she had, it's perfect, you know, students gave her
the highest report. Right. Uh, she got, they offer a job up at NAU. She
went up there became department of Civil Engineering chairman. And, uh,
they offered her husband a job on the n because he was in Phoenix. He said
no, they weren't excited enough.
So I'm interested where he is now. She's in California. I've got to send
her an email. But, uh, wonderful girl. So, after you retired, uh, Harry,
uh, hobbies, travel, uh, committees at Friendship Village. What are you
doing? Well, travel was a big thing. So, when, and we, uh, we did what we
call camping, which was a motor home, you know, we never slept on the
ground. But, uh, we, we, we traveled that way and, and really enjoyed it,
traveled a lot, two or three months trips. And, uh, and I always liked
history. History has always been, I, I figured if I had been an engineer,
I'd probably been a historian, maybe I wouldn't have been success at it,
but I would have enjoyed it. So I read, I took all the courses over at
Scottsdale Community College in History and they had a fantastic history
teacher over there. Um, I took them all for credit because I would never
let a student audit. Of course, because if they audit, they didn't pay
attention, you know, they had to work at it. So I, uh, rule was good for
them. It was good for me. So I took the classes over there and, uh, read a
lot of history, but I've read everything I still do. I, I'll, I'll read a
biography and I'll read a murder mystery and, uh I enjoy them all. So, uh
, and those two things occupied a lot of our time and photography, it's
always been a hobby back in film days. I had darkroom, the color printing
, color and uh black and only. And then when digital came along that I
struggled with that for a while. But, uh it always made me mad, you know,
when I was on film, I wanted to do some solarization. It was a three hour
job I get here and I get the software in its 10 seconds and that's not as
good as I think. I'm gonna tell you. Uh I'm still, I still have my old
film cameras and if I could use the one camera that I have there, I would
drop the digital immediately. But, and just too much of a struggle to use
film. Now, you can get it done. T camera repair sells film and, and
develops it, but it's still, you know, so, but anyway, So that's been a
big hobby of mine and, uh, a mixture of artist and photographer. I took
art at the Chicago Art Institute when I lived in Chicago and did some art.
But I was never, never thought I was good. I, I never was satisfied. I
did part of it. Look good. I didn't like the rest of it. So my approach in
photography is, uh, I'm really trying to create art when I do it. Uh It's
different from trying to get the most resolution possible that that's not
of interest to me. Uh My interest is if you look at it and say, hey,
that's neat. That's all, that's all I care about. So I spend a fair amount
of time with that in spells.
I have exhibited a little bit but very, very minor.
So, what's your committee work over at Friendship Village?
Well, the biggest one is the appreciation fund for the employees. I don't
know if y'all are aware of that. We don't tip over there and no tip in a
lot. They take a tip, their flares. Uh So what, what they do instead to
make it attractive to them plays. They, they do treat them well. Uh They
have a big Christmas party and it's not there. It's at the Hilton
someplace with a, with a 16 piece orchestra and you know, the whole bit,
but also we, we collect money on a voluntary basis from the residents and
it's, it's about a month long process where we do make them aware of the
fact that what they're getting. Um, last year we raised $260,000.
Uh, we have 500 employees. They wouldn't all qualify if some are, are
no minimum part time. There's some that just come in and kind of a
contract basis, you know. Uh, but, uh, there's, there's got to be over 400
full time fact or, uh, employees and so that we have a formula for
breaking that money up. It's not based on your salary. It's, it's based on
how long you've been there. And, uh, how many hours you worked that year
and that sort of thing. But, uh, the, uh, the highest paid people get the
same come out is the lowest rate in there. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it works,
it works. Uh, we have
tr relationships with the employees. Uh, they look at us like grandparents
, you know, and not a day. I don't get a hug from somebody, some employee
, even the lady that cleans our house, make sure she comes in and gives me
a hug before she goes. You know, uh, one of them one day said, hey, my
fiance is out in the parking lot. I want you to meet him, you know, come
on out and meet my fiance. Uh, so the system works pretty well and they
work at it, you know, they, they do some decent things. Well, they have
their own cafeteria in, in the complex and some things are free. So the
food soup is always free, uh, whatever they have to pay for is low price.
You know. Uh, it's certainly not a place for everybody. I have friends
that don't, still don't understand. I've been here 10 years and they don't
know why I'm there,
but it certainly is a place for me. Uh, I can't imagine, you know, it,
who's thinking about how I went through my surgery. Uh Everybody
contributed, you know, uh after Mayo's, they provided me transportation in
the first while, uh went in the health care center for five weeks. And man
, they nurtured me, you know, uh, uh, food. I started out with the whole
through the nose and then liquid and then the puree and they even went
pureed food, like they say, would you like a ham and cheese sandwich today
? Sure. They would puree the half slices of bread. They had a mold to put
them in and use dye to make them look like bread, the ham and the cheese
and the same thing you get this sandwich. It was pureed food. But, uh, but
, and uh, and then from there I went over to, to, to my cottage,
my wife took care of the food thing from there on uh, she was a big help.
She a huge help. Mhm. A bit about that.
Yeah, I'll tell you she's half Indian and her Indian name is five horse,
Ddddd.
Ok. That's what she did. She nagged me to eat that food and do this thing
, do whatever I want. Yeah. And, uh, I broke an ankle. You know, I think
about how it would be if I was in my house, I wouldn't know if it was
broken or not. I called the A IL. They come down and look at it and say it
probably is, but we get you over to the X ray. All this takes place within
an hour or so. And I say, yeah, it is broken and make an appointment
tomorrow and I'm back in the house. You know, if I was at home doing that
, it would be two or three days the time I got the right orthopedic and
you know, so being the lazy kind of person that I am, I'm a good fit. Been
there 10 years now.
What made you decide to move from your home, your comfortable home?
And there was somebody that you knew there. We did. I did know some people.
Yes. Uh Jack and Ann uh Bob and Anne Armstrong were friends of ours and a
fellow named Roscoe Hildebrand, structural engineer. Did you know Roscoe?
No, he was head of the uh building inspection department, City of Phoenix.
Uh So we did know those people, but we got to where the things we had to
do around the house were tasks the yard work. So we finally we hired
someone to do the yard work now that the go up on the roof and, and do
something up there, you got to climb the ladder and, uh, these things just
evolved. And all of a sudden, Roscoe said, gee, I don't do any of those
things. They won't even let us change a light bulb because they don't want
you getting up even on a chair or something. So, uh, I don't know. You
know, again, I think that's one of those things that wasn't this, that was
little bit dream. Maybe they, maybe there's some place that does this and
it was, it was gradual. We were probably a year and a half in the process.
Do you have Children? No, we don't. So, all those grandchildren that work
over there? Yeah. Are, are good friends of ours. Uh, I have nieces and
nephews that live here. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, no, it's, uh, I, I, that's a
good question. I don't know what the instrument was that we decided to
come over here. I don't know when that was. Do you have any words of
wisdom for your audience here? Any last comments? Don't pay much attention
to what I said. Mhm. No. You know, I think one thing that I think you had
in there someplace but we didn't talk about that. I think it is important
and that is interfacing with the students as they graduate. What are they
going to do? And you know, an awful lot of them come to you and say, what
, what should I do? You know, I got this offer and this offer, what, which
one should I take? And, uh, I think it's important that you seriously look
at those things. Generally speaking, it was, which one do you think can
help most? Fine, because you don't wanna work when you're not having fun.
And so I would say I came in and said, uh, I've got, uh, it offered from
Caterpillar
Tractor. It's not doing really what I took my degree in. But I like the
guy. I said, take the job. You're only 22 years old, you don't have to say.
And he stayed there forever. I found out. Yeah. But, uh, do something
that you like to do. I had, I had a graduate student. He and, and, uh,
Miguel, I was talking about when we were there at the same time. They were
the two best phd students we ever had. Uh, he came to see me and they
wouldn't hire him again. And he was, he had taught two years for us, had
the highest student ratings of anybody in our higher than mine in the
department. Uh, very ingenious in what he did. Very creative. And due to
they wouldn't hire, they didn't give it was gonna replace me and they
weren't gonna replace me.
He came to see me and in fact, he took every graduate computer science
course as a civil engineering structure student. And they offered him a
job, computer science. His degree was ins structural but it was a very low
end. It was, you know, 20,000 or something. He said I have a second offer.
He said ma community college has two openings, one for their mathematics
area and one for science.
He said, I, I applied for both of them. I didn't know which one and they
gave me both jobs. They said they'd combine them, combine the salaries.
And I, if I would do both of them,
his entrance off was 75,000
and that didn't include summers. They provided extra work for him in the
summertime. He still live there. It was the right place for him. He's not
a what a research guy. He, he really, he was a teacher and now he's the
area that he's over there has about 15,000 students in it. The father was
the commandant of the Marine Base in U A. So he was a yes sir. No, sir.
And the best beer drinker I ever saw,
oh, Linda probably knows about that. He uh he had key to my house for
years. I never knew when he left. He led it three years in, in the
basketball team, 6 ft eight. He was Mr Basketball in the state of Arizona
scored 35 points a game. You talking about this um son of the Marine like
Sims and uh and uh,
his brother was a Rhodes scholar.
My sister was assistant to the, to the president at Cal Berkeley. They
make you do anything. I mean, and you could take it back, you could take
computer into the tiniest parts and put it back together. Uh, he, his
father bought a house on what's the first street on the other side of, of
Mill? There's some old houses near Naples because his brother was also
working a phd here in geo geology. He bought a house. He's always cheaper
to buy the house and have the two kids live in it. Mike took a look at it
and in a garage, he built a second story. He himself did it, did all the
electrical, all the plumbing. He got it all passed by the city. And then
he and his brother lived in the garage when they rented out the whole
house.
He stopped at the house one time. He had three daughters and he stopped
over at the house one time, a long time after this. And she had had this
little Volkswagen beetle when they got married. Uh, he'd had it for 10
years and he came into the house and the whole roof was caved in and I
said, Mike, is anybody hurt? Oh, no. He said the girls were using it for a
trampoline and I haven't got it popped out yet
and that's how relaxed he was, you know. Uh,
but the, yeah, the two best students we ever had you would not offer. So,
Harry, thank you for a great interview.
Uh I'll have to think back on what I said now.