WEBVTT

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Today is September 10th, 2015.

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We're here today at the Arizona State
University Retiree's office on Curry

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Road and we're here to do a video
history interview

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with us. Today is John mcintosh
operating the camera and the director is

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Linda Vanoy.

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Please introduce yourself, stating
your name and your positions at a

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OK, Harry Lundgren, uh I was a member
of the Faculty of Civil Engineering

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Professor of Civil Engineering. Uh and

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you were here during,

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started here on campus actually in 59
but a faculty position in 61 and I

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was here from 61 until 1989 when I
retired. I was a soft retirement. Uh

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There were a couple of reasons to come
back for a little bit but um

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legally and, and all I retired and did
not to begin with. Uh let our

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viewers know about your early life. Uh
Where were you born? When were you

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born? And where were you raised? I was
born in 1928 in Chicago on the

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south side of Chicago uh to live there
till I was about 11. At which time

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we moved out to the northwest corner
of Indiana. Right, right up in the,

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in the corner, uh, about 40 miles from
downtown Chicago, but culturally,

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1000 miles away in a small town, in
fact that the part that I lived in

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wasn't incorporated, it was a resort
kind of community. And, uh, so the

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high school was nearby was a rural
high school. Uh, small enough that,

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that we all got to play sports if we
wanted to and big enough that we got

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a taste of what it would be like. Um,
you know, I was fortunate to go to a

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high school with outstanding teachers,
uh school with about 500 students

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and the uh faculty were most good and
helpful and the principal especially

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took command of your life when you
came in there. Uh You, you did nothing

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that he didnt know being a small town.
You didn't do anything, uh, that

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everybody didn't know about anyway.
That was uh one reason I never got in

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trouble. It wasn't because I wasn't a
bad guy. Uh, just everybody knew me

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and, uh, so I did that, but what was
the closest town was that near the

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Indiana Dunes? No, the dunes run
around toward Michigan. This was just, uh

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, would be south of kind of Hammon
Gary area. About 20 miles south of the

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south end of Lake Michigan. About four
miles from the Illinois Line and

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about 15 miles from Lake Michigan. But
far enough from the Stale Mills.

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Yeah. Uh it was peculiar kind of a
county because, uh, our town that I

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went to high school in about 5000
population and it was the county seat

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and the county had Ham and Gary
Chicago Whiting, Indiana Harbor, all of

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these, these businesses and we were
the county seats of that. Uh, as a

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result, that part of the town was, was
fairly well off because they were

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the lawyers and, and everybody that
was involved with the county, uh where

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I lived was an unincorporated resort
which was quite a bit different. Um

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In high school, elementary school, I
was fairly straightforward. I went to

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high school in Crown Point and c is
very famous. I don't know if you aware

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or not, but it's where Dillinger
escaped with the gun and the stories

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where he carved a potato or he carved
a board. Uh I happened to have

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opportunity to meet with the sheriff
at that time and none of that was

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true. He overpowered the guard and
took his gun. It isn't as romantic, but

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it's what happened. Also. We were the
marriage capital of the midwest, uh

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Ronald Reagan, uh Muhammad Ali, uh all
kinds of movie stars were married

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in our little town because they would
be entertaining in Chicago. And I,

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and you could get married after you
started the process in 24 hours in, in

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Indiana, in Chicago, which took a
couple of weeks. So these people would

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just come across the line and get
married. Uh, I get very interested in

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sports and I played basketball,
football and, uh, baseball. Uh, never,

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never good enough to play in college
but good enough to play in a, in a

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500 student. Uh, school.

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How about a little of your family
life, brothers, sisters? Uh, what was

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your parents' background? Well, it
was, it was not real successful. Uh,

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the, uh, the folks were divorced when
I was about six and, uh, I have a

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brother, younger brother, four years
younger. Uh, that was kind of

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coincidental with our moving to
Indiana, it was a, we thought a better

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environment for us to grow up in, in
this rural area than, than south side

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of Chicago. I think she was right. Uh,
should be married. The wonderful

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man. He was a great stepfather and,
uh, supporters. Oh, did very well. We

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, we, uh, I had a, we lived right out
in the lake. My, my bedroom was

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about 30 ft from the lake and, uh, the
folks had a multi store. The, the,

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the core of it was a bakery, but we
had meat and produce and sandwiches

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and hot dogs and M milks and, and we,
anything that you can make money on

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, we sold, we even sold shoes for a
little while because with the steel

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mills there, they all had to wear
steel toed shoes. And so we got the

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franchise on steel toed shoes from
this company. So that's the only shoe

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we sold was just steel toed shoes. Uh,
but it was a, it was a neat place

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to grow up. Uh, as a resort, uh, had a
big dance pavilion on the lake, uh

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, which had all the big band, big
bands would, their contracts would end

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on Sunday in Chicago and they start
Wednesday someplace else where they

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had Monday and Tuesday to do something
with. So they come out and play at

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our pavilion. So we had every big man
you can ever imagine the Dorsey's uh

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Columb by uh Stan Kenton. All of them
come out and played at our pavilion.

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So it was, it was a neat place to grow
up

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and what uh directed your decision,
say to go off to college in

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engineering. Well, I learned how to
take a square run and, and that, that

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kind of directed me to engineering.
That was, I know I like math and

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science and we had good math. And so
our principal was our math teacher uh

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and our Latin teacher and he got to
know you very well and he decided that

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what courses you should take and when
you got done, uh why aren't you

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going to Purdue? You know? OK. And I
didn't have an answer for that. So uh

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he was a, a great psychologist. He
understood all the students, he

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convinced us all that he could tell we
were lying by taking our pulse. So

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anything that happened on campus, he
would line everybody up and take your

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pulse and, and by the time he got
halfway through, somebody would own up

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to it, or sometimes he would know
ahead of time who did it, but he'd still

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go through the pulse thing and, and
that just reinforced our beliefs that

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we just didn't have a way to get
around it. Uh He was a big man. He didn't

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mind taking on a football player
physically if he had to. But he could

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teach Latin, he, he could teach
anything. The typing teacher became ill.

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He took typing. Uh I taught all the
math classes, some of the science. Uh

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and when it came time to go to
college, it was uh, here sign the papers,

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you, more or less your, your
background is such that you should go to

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college and uh engineering seems to
fit your likes and produce is 90 miles

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away and that I didn't pick Purdue as
much as they picked me. I just, just

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, uh, where's the place to go if
you're not familiar with the Indiana

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culture?

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If you don't, if you uh live in
Indiana, at least back when I was there,

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if you live in Indiana and you're
going to college, if you don't go to

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Purdue or Indiana University, people
want to know why. Uh That's, I knew

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of only one student in my class and,
and they were good students that

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didn't go to those two schools. Uh,
they went to Notre Dame, which was on

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the border. But, uh, no, they, they
went for, it was kind of expected.

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Yeah, if you could get in, uh, at the
time that I went in, in 1946

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was that all the troops were coming
home from the military? And, uh, I'm

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not sure I didn't apply to any other
university. I don't know if I could

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have gotten in, in that day. I was in
state and, uh, I had a, a decent

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record. Uh, they doubled the
enrollment from spring to fall G I Bill with

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the G I Bill G I Bill. They had the,
uh, the rooms that were one man rooms

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and the dormitories and all became two
men, the ones that were two men

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became four men. And, uh, uh, then I
really thought I was fortunate. I, uh

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, we had some returning military man
and they could be of a different elks.

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We have to draw some terrific guys.
They kind of took us on as little

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brothers and, uh, didn't, didn't let
us go too far astray. Uh, so I was

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lucky in that respect. Back to, uh,
grade school, high school. Did you

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have any job? Sound like you might
have worked in the family store, worked

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there. I worked in, in, you know,
during the war and they lowered the age

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and allowed you to work in some of
the, the defense facilities because

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they didn't have the, the young men.
So I worked in the steel mill when I

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was 16. I drove an oil truck, oil
gasoline delivery truck. When I was just

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16. I just a year out to get my
driver's license. Uh, I worked as a

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gardener and that was because I was
playing baseball and played every

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afternoon practice or played in the
afternoon and there was a job I could

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get where I could go there at four in
the morning and do my work and uh be

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available for the baseball. And, and
like you said, I was to fill in at

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the store that I was always available
sometimes at two in the morning if,

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if it was in the bakery. Mhm. And that
didn't suit the young 16 year old

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with social ambitions, you know, to,
to get up at two o'clock. Uh Then in

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uh I also worked in a automobile body
shop on Saturdays, uh gopher sand

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the car. And I love that because I got
to drive all these different cars

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uh moving around inside the garage. Um
Now that Purdue um I uh well, I did

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what most everybody did. I bused
tables for a couple of years and then I

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hooked on with the civil engineering
firm in town. We needed some drafting

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that, that it was uh modular homes.
And so they would rough out something

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and then I would find the modules that
put together and uh that was nice

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because let me do it in my, in my
room. Now, is that near where the RV

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industry uh started up? The RV was up
north. That was more like South Bend.

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Uh OK. When you, I was thinking you
were working when you were living at

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home in the modular home dormitory,

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uh Things were a little different for
my bachelor's degree was 100 and 64

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semester hours

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and they just scheduled for 20
semester hours each semester. So you took

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20 that you had eight semesters,
that's 100 and 60 you had to go one

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summer and that was the way that the
program worked. And you picked uh

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structural engineering versus
mechanical or how did you get in the

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structure? None of these things ever
work out. Like you think I had some

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capability to draw and uh and
understood perspectives and, and some other

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things like that. And uh so I thought
I'd like to be an architectural

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engineer and I got the Purdue catalog,
the only catalog I ever saw and

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they had architectural engineering in
there. I thought, OK, I'm going that

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seals that I'm going to Purdue turned
out they had 12 semester hour course

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in architectural engineering uh as an
optional course. In fact, of 100 and

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64 semester hours, 100 and 60 were,
were block step. I only get four

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semester hours of, of options. Yeah.
Uh So it was a little and everybody

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took the 20 hours. I didn't know
anybody that took six hours to get

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through, even at 100 and 64 hours.
They, they, we always had class on

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Saturday. That was, that was a given.
Uh, we had an injury, we had lots of

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labs. So even 20 semester hours wasn't
20 hours in the classroom, there

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was another eight or 10 hours of, of
lab work that was due, uh, you know,

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looking back on it, it looks like it
would have been tough when I was

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there. It was just what you did. Uh,
everybody was doing it. So, so you

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did it and, and never thought much
about it. Uh, extracurricular

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activities. Uh, high school or
college? Well, in high school was sports

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that, that was pretty much it. I was
class officer but that, that goes

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with the sports, you're successful
sports person. You become a class

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officer too. Uh,

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not really anything else that pretty
much took up my time and in high

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school and college with the 20
semester hours, I really didn't do anything.

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I, I went to school and that was
pretty much it. Uh, now did military

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service come along after? What year
did you graduate? I graduated in 1950

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50 which was the, the Korean thing was
just one just speeding up about

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that time just recovering from the
war. Uh, and because my grades were

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decent, they had a deferment process
that they would give you for one year.

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I came up for, for a draft at the end
of my junior year. And so the, the

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, uh, board said, well, if you, if you
sign up now for, for the time after

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that will give you a year deferment.
So that's what I did. So, I, I

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graduated in June of 1950 and, uh, I
went into the military in November in

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1950 and I knew everybody knew it. And
I decided I'd get a job near home

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and I got a job with a construction
company which stood me in good stead

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in the long run. I didn't, you know,
and, uh who had five that had been on

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the job and my job was a cost plus job
for the government. My job was to

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go around every day and mark down
where everybody was working. That was,

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that was what I did unless they needed
a pound of nails. In which case I

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had to go out and get three bids on
nails, the hardware store.

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Uh Then I went to the military uh in
November of 50

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went to basic training in, in Kentucky
and uh took six weeks basic

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training. And because I already had my
degree, uh, they gave me an M OS uh

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uh an identification number that tells
what you can do. Uh I'm, I'm an

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engineer and so they wrote me orders
at the end of my six weeks to go to

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Fort Belvoir, Virginia uh in uh the
research facility there. And that was

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all neat and that was good and
especially not taking the other eight weeks

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of basic. I wasn't crazy about that.
So I went to ship me to Fort Myer,

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Virginia, which was adjacent to the
Pentagon. Uh In fact, it was sat right

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between Arlington cemetery and the
Pentagon and there was a tunnel from

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our base over. Well, that last about
two weeks down came different orders.

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They didn't like the fact that I was
dressed in civilian clothes most of

00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:27.535
the time going into Washington. And uh
no, they shipped a bunch of us out

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to Fort Bello. We said, hey, you can't
do that. We've got orders. He said

00:18:32.219 --> 00:18:39.186
no new orders here. Take the other
eight weeks. Basic. So by the time I

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finish that my orders to the to the uh
research facility had been passed

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over. So I got a position teaching
erection of portable airplane hangar to

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construction groups.

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Uh six week course is this Corps of
Engineering Corps of Engineer in the

00:19:00.818 --> 00:19:06.736
six weeks course. And uh there were
three of us teaching it. So he had two

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weeks teaching two weeks assisting and
two weeks off. Uh the office was

00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:14.545
supposedly the right lesson plans. But
once you've been through it, once

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or twice, there wasn't much of a job.
So I, I became an expert in

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Smithsonian uh because I can get, I
only had a big revel and then I was

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free the rest of the day in those two
weeks. Then they decided to move

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that the Fort Leonard Wood, which I
don't know if any of, you know about

00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:37.906
Fort Leonard wood, but it's a, it's a
muddy place about 6070 miles from

00:19:37.939 --> 00:19:43.857
Springfield, Missouri. Nobody wants to
go there. I didn't want to go there.

00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:48.367
And, uh, so we, we made a little noise
through three of us in that same

00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:53.045
boat and we got reassigned to the
engine roster, candidate school. And

00:19:53.078 --> 00:19:57.607
that's why I spent the rest of my
time. Essentially.

00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:03.156
We ran 22 week course and we had a new
group every week. So we had 22

00:20:03.189 --> 00:20:06.867
groups going at a time

00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:11.785
just making sure things were running
slow. We got out of the military in

00:20:11.818 --> 00:20:19.818
1952 1952 November and I went to work
at Clon Air in the first year. Give

00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:27.387
us a little background on Kanye Con is
a, uh, architectural metals

00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:34.575
fabricator and erector which, uh, was
mostly aluminum and we did, uh,

00:20:34.608 --> 00:20:39.285
things like, uh, outside walls for
buildings. Uh, we had a big door

00:20:39.318 --> 00:20:46.805
business. We probably made and sold 30
or 40,000 doors a year. Mhm. And,

00:20:46.838 --> 00:20:51.097
uh, they were the largest
architectural metal firm in the country. We and

00:20:51.130 --> 00:20:56.627
a few other plants. One in L A, one in
Atlanta was in Niles, near your

00:20:56.660 --> 00:21:04.266
home. Yeah, it was about 90 miles from
where I inch and I got the job

00:21:04.299 --> 00:21:10.035
through it. Employment Agency in
downtown Chicago. Somebody said that's a

00:21:10.068 --> 00:21:12.736
good place to go. They give you tests
and they're hooked up with all these

00:21:12.769 --> 00:21:17.776
companies and then they'll recommend
you. So I went in there and it was a

00:21:17.809 --> 00:21:23.065
two day exam. Let's go back one step.
When you get out of the army, they

00:21:23.098 --> 00:21:27.847
go through a set of tests for you to
help you. But I already had my degree.

00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:31.236
But it make a difference that, that
was the procedure was that I went and

00:21:31.269 --> 00:21:37.436
it was, you know, everything from uh
sentence completion to r uh test and

00:21:37.469 --> 00:21:41.217
it was all this stuff pretty. And so
when I got out and I went to this

00:21:41.250 --> 00:21:45.055
place, they did the same thing with
this and I got so sick of it that at

00:21:45.088 --> 00:21:52.016
the end of the second day, I really
was pretty rude about it. I said, well

00:21:52.049 --> 00:21:56.186
, let me tell you what the R at is. I
won't tell you what I told you. It

00:21:56.219 --> 00:22:01.446
was, it was pretty bad, turned out.
That's what I was supposed to do. And

00:22:01.479 --> 00:22:05.467
they gave me a very high rating. You
were supposed to not like that sort

00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:10.406
of thing as much as I had. So, um, and
Con Air picked me up from there.

00:22:10.439 --> 00:22:16.555
They, they had used another, uh it was
a combination

00:22:16.588 --> 00:22:22.956
manufacturing and product company. Big
part was product, but product was

00:22:22.989 --> 00:22:29.696
always revolving in new products. It
was a pleasant place to work. Uh,

00:22:29.729 --> 00:22:32.335
most pleasant because I met my wife
there. I'm not gonna make it nine

00:22:32.368 --> 00:22:40.368
times, like, very nice lady. And, uh,
we were married in 55

00:22:41.500 --> 00:22:48.486
and we spent three more years there.
She, she had a partial teaching

00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:53.835
degree, allowed her in Michigan to
teach outside the city limits. Yeah.

00:22:53.868 --> 00:22:59.486
But this, as long as she continued to
take classes. So, uh, she did that

00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:04.176
and I worked there. We, we enjoyed it
but the cold weather and the snow

00:23:04.209 --> 00:23:08.607
finally got to us. It got to me
especially. And I came in one Friday night

00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.147
, I was traveling, I was
troubleshooting at this point. You know, I, I'd

00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:16.295
leave on Monday and they tell me they
leave a note Monday night where I

00:23:16.328 --> 00:23:20.726
was to go the next time and it might
be from here to Atlanta and the next

00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:24.295
time was Hot Springs, Arkansas. And
then it was New Jersey and I'd get

00:23:24.328 --> 00:23:29.847
home on Friday night leave on Monday
morning. And I got there and it had

00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:33.867
about eight inches of snow. I plowed
through the parking lot at the

00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:39.266
airport. Couldn't start the car,
walked another mile through the snow, got

00:23:39.299 --> 00:23:43.256
somebody to give me a jump and that
started, walked in Monday morning,

00:23:43.289 --> 00:23:48.166
told my boss I quit, uh, uh, take as
long as you want to get a replacement.

00:23:48.199 --> 00:23:54.867
But I'm, I'm through and, uh, did you
know where you were gonna go. I had

00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:59.835
no idea. Didn't have any idea. I, the
west intrigued me. I had a friend

00:23:59.868 --> 00:24:03.825
who had come to Phoenix and I had
relatives in Denver and I spend a little

00:24:03.858 --> 00:24:08.236
time in Denver. Like Denver very well,
very much. In fact, first day there

00:24:08.269 --> 00:24:12.315
I got a job offer, endeavor.

00:24:12.348 --> 00:24:16.426
But the friend that lived here said,
come on down and at least experience

00:24:16.459 --> 00:24:22.936
Phoenix. Oh, ok. So I came down then
it was very hard to find that it was

00:24:22.969 --> 00:24:27.506
all hand to mouth because there was no
advertising in the paper. You had

00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:33.666
to get in with somebody. And, uh, I
had some job opportunities but they

00:24:33.699 --> 00:24:39.956
didn't pay, they were step down
considerably from what I was getting.

00:24:39.989 --> 00:24:43.926
So I was gonna go back on Friday night
and then we take the job. I got a

00:24:43.959 --> 00:24:48.166
phone call Friday night in the
frontier Airlines, which was the only

00:24:48.199 --> 00:24:53.916
airlines flying to Denver at that
time. And, uh, they said, uh, we've got

00:24:53.949 --> 00:24:59.555
it settled. We'll, we'll fly in the
morning and, uh, that's how we'll fly

00:24:59.588 --> 00:25:03.127
in the morning. We'll, we'll get out
in the morning in the meantime, one

00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:07.236
of the guys that from the fabrication
company here in town called me up

00:25:07.269 --> 00:25:11.666
the salary. So if it hadn't been for
that delay from Friday to Saturday,

00:25:11.699 --> 00:25:14.815
I'd have been working in Denver. No,
no doubt. This is a steel fabricator

00:25:14.848 --> 00:25:22.717
, steel fabricator, small steel
fabricator. And, uh, so I worked he was,

00:25:22.750 --> 00:25:28.565
he was interested in getting into the
product line Carports, uh that sort

00:25:28.598 --> 00:25:32.206
of thing. And once we got the product
settled, it only took about a year

00:25:32.239 --> 00:25:37.246
until we had decent product line that
I was becoming an administrator.

00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:44.406
Again. That's not what I wanted. So,
uh what to Salt River project?

00:25:44.439 --> 00:25:51.426
And uh went in there was that, that
would have been the, would ask

00:25:51.459 --> 00:25:56.156
questions like that. That would have
been 60. It was, I, I started taking

00:25:56.189 --> 00:26:01.946
night classes at a su while I was
still working at Salt River and

00:26:01.979 --> 00:26:07.656
Engineering. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, it
gotten away a little bit from the

00:26:07.689 --> 00:26:12.956
high tech part of structural
engineering to product kind of work. And so

00:26:12.989 --> 00:26:17.246
Lewis Hill had just come at that time.
So there's a whole group, maybe

00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:23.696
seven or eight of us that were in town
here that were practicing engineers

00:26:23.729 --> 00:26:28.285
that went to Louis's class. That's how
he got his class. And uh I still

00:26:28.318 --> 00:26:31.426
see some of those people.

00:26:31.459 --> 00:26:36.426
So, what was that class? Was it always
advanced structural analysis

00:26:36.459 --> 00:26:42.936
process? Yeah. Advanced analysis and
determined structures, uh concrete,

00:26:42.969 --> 00:26:47.656
reinforced concrete and concrete. Uh
And finally, my boss over at Salt

00:26:47.689 --> 00:26:51.736
River said, you know, taking one class
a semester, you're not gonna get

00:26:51.769 --> 00:26:55.107
there for a long time. Why don't you
take off a year? We'll hold your job

00:26:55.140 --> 00:27:00.526
, take off a year and finish the darn
thing. So that's what I did. It

00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:06.065
wasn't, I didn't get paid. But now
Joyce had finished her degree here so

00:27:06.098 --> 00:27:09.147
she could get a full time job. So we
didn't want to get used to 22

00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:13.936
salaries. So it was an opportune time.
So I went back and finished and it

00:27:13.969 --> 00:27:17.857
didn't come out just exactly. Even I
needed one more course on the

00:27:17.890 --> 00:27:23.516
master's and they need the course
taught. I said, ok, will you teach that

00:27:23.549 --> 00:27:25.847
course?

00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:30.976
Uh, Lee Thompson, who was, our dean
was very much that all of the

00:27:31.009 --> 00:27:35.416
engineering instructors should have
experience. He didn't want anybody in

00:27:35.449 --> 00:27:39.266
that just came out of school with no
experience. Well, I had 10 years

00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:45.666
experience. So I fit their, their
pattern and I taught that course at the

00:27:45.699 --> 00:27:50.597
end of that. Um, I was still all
right. And they were still all right. So

00:27:50.630 --> 00:27:57.637
they offered me a position and that
was in 61 that was in 61. Yeah. And

00:27:57.670 --> 00:28:04.545
then Lewis Lewis didn't have his phd.
And uh so he was working for me

00:28:04.578 --> 00:28:07.815
because he wanted somebody that could
come in and teach the classes that

00:28:07.848 --> 00:28:10.676
he had been teaching.

00:28:10.709 --> 00:28:18.585
And so, uh he left in 63 and went and
got his phd. By that time, I

00:28:18.618 --> 00:28:23.217
recognized that if I was gonna do the
things I wanted to do, uh, oh, and I

00:28:23.250 --> 00:28:28.847
got the master's at the issue. I need
the phd also. So then he took the

00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:35.666
classes back over and I left from 60
essentially 65 to 67. And uh I went

00:28:35.699 --> 00:28:40.156
to Oklahoma State, which is his
original undergraduate, his original

00:28:40.189 --> 00:28:47.156
undergraduate, his original masters
and he had connections there with um

00:28:47.189 --> 00:28:52.006
John T. Sure. Yeah, he had,

00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:55.887
well, there, there are more
connections, the engineering of a su got

00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:01.835
people by Purdue Oklahoma State and
Texas A and M. Those are the places

00:29:01.868 --> 00:29:06.555
where most large number of faculty
came from. Our first chairman, Bob

00:29:06.588 --> 00:29:12.565
Kirsten uh had his bachelor's masters
in Oklahoma City, chairman of civil

00:29:12.598 --> 00:29:19.045
engineering. Uh Now is that
environmental also water? He was fluid

00:29:19.078 --> 00:29:26.887
mechanics. Uh He uh got his phd at
Northwestern with Zinke who was a

00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:28.956
famous

00:29:28.989 --> 00:29:34.607
British fluent guy. Uh

00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:42.640
So that, that got me to, to Oklahoma
City and uh

00:29:42.750 --> 00:29:46.236
trying to think of what else might
might have occurred in there. Well,

00:29:46.269 --> 00:29:51.486
when I got back in 67 by that time,
the program had grown, the structures

00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:57.506
program had grown. So instead we had,
at that time, we had Dick Peel and

00:29:57.539 --> 00:30:04.147
uh Louis and myself and we added Bill
shoulder to that. And uh so we had a

00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:08.686
pretty viable graduate program with
four structures people. We could offer

00:30:08.719 --> 00:30:14.055
a lot of different courses and we did,
we did, we had, we had fair share

00:30:14.088 --> 00:30:21.835
of, of uh a lot of masters students
but a fair share of phd students. Uh

00:30:21.868 --> 00:30:26.387
Now they have one structures person,

00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:31.926
they kind of uh dropped that
specially. Huh? Yeah, let's go back to uh

00:30:31.959 --> 00:30:38.367
when you got here, I'm bugging my
tongue right now. You feel? Yeah. Um,

00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.315
that's happened in a lot of places on
the campus. I think the, uh,

00:30:42.348 --> 00:30:50.045
computers were just showing up on
campus in 5859.

00:30:50.078 --> 00:30:56.746
I think, uh, Noble. Noble was
Motorola, encourage the engineering to

00:30:56.779 --> 00:31:03.627
develop here. But, uh, ge was in town,
uh, tell us a little background on

00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:07.426
the computer to philanthropic.

00:31:07.459 --> 00:31:11.456
They, they had these large computers
but they didn't have facilities to

00:31:11.489 --> 00:31:14.706
you, you know, the old computers all
had to have air conditioning. They

00:31:14.739 --> 00:31:19.736
have two or 3 ft of plenum underneath
the equipment to feed the air

00:31:19.769 --> 00:31:23.805
conditioning through them. But they
overheated so easily.

00:31:23.838 --> 00:31:28.857
Dean Thompson was able to build that
kind of facility down in

00:31:28.890 --> 00:31:36.890
maybe when I guess was. And so, uh ge
got to use it

00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.486
from midnight to eight or something
like that. We used the rest, some kind

00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:43.825
of arrangement. I share the hours, but
it was something like that. So it

00:31:43.858 --> 00:31:50.526
was a mutual, mutual thing. Uh So at
that time, you had the main computer

00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:55.446
and you had, you didn't have
microcomputers, you had monitors, which

00:31:55.479 --> 00:32:00.367
themselves had no cap, no
computational capability that all went on at the

00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.446
mainframe.

00:32:02.479 --> 00:32:07.506
And a little aside, you know, that's
where we're going. Now we're going

00:32:07.539 --> 00:32:13.416
back to monitors and mainframes
because the security is so much easier to

00:32:13.449 --> 00:32:21.449
do it at one place. But, uh anyway,
so, uh then we got uh Lewis and I

00:32:21.670 --> 00:32:27.795
talked into buying, ok, I think what
they called it. That was kind of an

00:32:27.828 --> 00:32:35.585
in between computer. An LP LP G 30 a
freestanding little computer that, uh

00:32:35.618 --> 00:32:42.597
, used interpretive language which, uh
meant that it was running the

00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:47.956
machine language. All right. But you
used English but a limited English uh

00:32:47.989 --> 00:32:53.335
to run it. Uh It was a card feed.
Well, it was originally paper tape feed

00:32:53.368 --> 00:32:59.555
, paper taper tear. That was always
fun trying to tape it back. Exactly.

00:32:59.588 --> 00:33:05.986
Right. Uh Finally we got in this card
reading and, and that progressed

00:33:06.019 --> 00:33:09.756
that I had the first microcomputer

00:33:09.789 --> 00:33:15.717
in engineering at home. I had one home
before they had one. I can't uh an

00:33:15.750 --> 00:33:19.936
engineering. It was a thought works
was the name of the computer. It was

00:33:19.969 --> 00:33:22.756
built here in Phoenix.

00:33:22.789 --> 00:33:27.016
The console weighed about £250 because
they had no idea where they were

00:33:27.049 --> 00:33:31.585
going. They had 28 expansion slots.

00:33:31.618 --> 00:33:39.618
Uh I, I bought that and a uh monitor
which was a green symbols on black

00:33:40.598 --> 00:33:44.877
background. Very good, very good
resolution. Very easy on the eyes and a

00:33:44.910 --> 00:33:49.936
printer, an old dot matrix and I paid
$6000. That, that wasn't a grant.

00:33:49.969 --> 00:33:55.976
That was my money. That was to get
started in, in this thing. Uh When did

00:33:56.009 --> 00:34:02.936
you see your first computer? Was it
here on campus? They had a 1620

00:34:02.969 --> 00:34:07.476
uh that was the leader of a punch tape
one. The LP G 30 would predating

00:34:07.509 --> 00:34:12.807
that. Yeah, we decided we worked for
the 1620 for a while too. They tend

00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:18.967
to overheat too a little bit. Uh, in
fact, the, the card box held 2000

00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:24.084
cards and I taught a course for, for
practicing engineers and use the

00:34:24.117 --> 00:34:29.175
computer instructors. And the final
project was, was they had to write

00:34:29.208 --> 00:34:36.144
this program, you know, and, and, uh,
it usually took about 2000 cars the

00:34:36.177 --> 00:34:41.245
day before he was handed in one guy
dropped the box and at that time, they

00:34:41.278 --> 00:34:46.227
didn't have numbers in column 80 that
came later, there was no way to put

00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:52.865
it back together. No way at all. Later
on, they reserved columns 81 to 90

00:34:52.898 --> 00:34:57.135
or something for a number. And when
you punch the card, you have a number

00:34:57.168 --> 00:35:00.925
and then they had a machine that you
could throw all the cards in and it

00:35:00.958 --> 00:35:06.195
would sort them and they come out by
the numbers. But uh but he in the

00:35:06.228 --> 00:35:09.767
office

00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:13.356
and he was, he was a pretty reputable
engineer in town. He was chief

00:35:13.389 --> 00:35:21.389
engineer at uh Allison Field Jim Worst
off. But anyway, so we, and in this

00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:29.807
big computer, the slowest thing was
the card. Well, the tapes and the

00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:36.626
tapes would not back up. So a lot of
solution procedures require that you

00:35:36.659 --> 00:35:41.626
, that you move one and then you move
back one on the back one meant go

00:35:41.659 --> 00:35:45.276
all the way through the tape and
coming at it from here. So it took all

00:35:45.309 --> 00:35:49.267
that time for a rewind to get back
again. That was slow. But the slowest

00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:54.106
thing was a card reader and they
finally came up with one which was vacuum

00:35:54.139 --> 00:36:00.506
fit. It would suck the car. So that
was much faster. When you got somebody

00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:02.595
in there didn't know what he was
doing. You sneak around and through the

00:36:02.628 --> 00:36:08.365
gate open on the back. You know.

00:36:08.398 --> 00:36:11.796
you know, it's kind of indoctrination.

00:36:11.829 --> 00:36:18.186
Is that a practical joke? That was a
practical joke. And, uh, nobody ever

00:36:18.219 --> 00:36:22.876
owned up to it but it was, it was kind
of the indoctrination. It was

00:36:22.909 --> 00:36:26.876
usually on the night shift.

00:36:26.909 --> 00:36:29.776
I remember trying to run a program
over there at two in the morning. I

00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:34.195
mean, that's when you put your card
deck in and came back the next day and

00:36:34.228 --> 00:36:37.885
found out there was an error somewhere
but you didn't know where. That's

00:36:37.918 --> 00:36:41.646
right. Well, Lee Thompson, you know,
we really get to him, I suppose. But

00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:49.037
, you know, he, he believed in, uh,
professional teaching and he believed

00:36:49.070 --> 00:36:55.517
in education first, then education,
second, education, third and research

00:36:55.550 --> 00:37:01.666
over there someplace. That's the way
if you came, engineering came to be

00:37:01.699 --> 00:37:06.845
because, uh, u of a would not take on
that approach. And so they convinced

00:37:06.878 --> 00:37:14.046
the legislature that this would be an
educating facility. And, uh, so they

00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:18.267
made it difficult to do research, kind
of like that you had to run at

00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:26.300
night or do, do such things.

00:37:26.728 --> 00:37:31.227
Now, let's see.

00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:37.316
And I haven't really insulted anybody
yet. Uh Let's talk about the faculty

00:37:37.349 --> 00:37:42.675
facilities. Just the facilities that
were here when you came on board in

00:37:42.708 --> 00:37:50.708
59 60 61 faculty offices, classrooms,
just the facilities that were

00:37:51.329 --> 00:37:53.635
available.

00:37:53.668 --> 00:37:58.537
Hm. Well,

00:37:58.570 --> 00:38:04.885
the we uh ay was where I was located
originally. Uh There were several of

00:38:04.918 --> 00:38:09.566
us in the office, the, the structural
lab we designed and built after that

00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:17.599
time, which was where Kaet had been
because it had Kaet had a high, very

00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.577
high ceiling for their drops and we
need a high ceiling for the, for the

00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:27.095
pressure systems and uh for the
testing equipment. So it worked out very

00:38:27.128 --> 00:38:32.385
well. And we, we poured new slab in
here with a 24 inch thick concrete

00:38:32.418 --> 00:38:40.418
slab with one inch rebar on 12 inch
center, top and bottom crossways and

00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:47.227
then with attachments so we, we could
pull anything in there. Uh And uh as

00:38:47.260 --> 00:38:51.307
far as the offices, there wasn't much
to occasionally, you know, you went

00:38:51.340 --> 00:38:55.345
from not having windows and progressed
to having an office with windows.

00:38:55.378 --> 00:39:03.227
I'm not sure that that's what, what
you're interested in. Uh

00:39:03.260 --> 00:39:08.378
was structural engineering. One of the
first disciplines to use computing.

00:39:08.949 --> 00:39:10.949
Lewis Hill was he a pioneer in using a computer.

00:39:15.019 --> 00:39:17.615
Well, are you talking about just at a
SU or are you talking about

00:39:17.648 --> 00:39:21.175
universally? Just a su?

00:39:21.208 --> 00:39:24.865
Well, I think he and I were probably
bought together when we bought that

00:39:24.898 --> 00:39:29.537
LP G convinced the Dean to buy that
LTP 30. I think that was kind of the

00:39:29.570 --> 00:39:34.405
beginning. Uh

00:39:34.438 --> 00:39:39.106
And, and it, you know, it's hard to
trace growth because it do things

00:39:39.139 --> 00:39:45.787
don't grow this way, they grow this
way, they grow with in pieces. And uh

00:39:45.820 --> 00:39:53.026
so you pick a particular time or point
that something changed is really

00:39:53.059 --> 00:39:55.336
kind of difficult.

00:39:55.369 --> 00:39:57.736
Um

00:39:57.769 --> 00:40:02.666
They took a different route.

00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:07.456
Your department, which I guess you
wouldn't say it was structural, uh was

00:40:07.489 --> 00:40:12.916
civil was the, the broad term. And uh
who are the various chairs of that

00:40:12.949 --> 00:40:18.066
department over? He said Kirsten was,
uh he was chair of Civil. He, well,

00:40:18.099 --> 00:40:23.327
first, the first acting chair was Paul
Ruff and he held the position

00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:27.776
knowing that it would go to Kirsten
when Kirsten finished his phd. And so

00:40:27.809 --> 00:40:32.017
that I, I never knew who was the first
one. It was either rough or, or

00:40:32.050 --> 00:40:37.816
Kirsten. Then after that you made in
civil. Yes. Well, let's see, uh uh

00:40:37.849 --> 00:40:45.849
Bob Kirsten went to uh uh Florida is a
Dean of Engineering and

00:40:46.849 --> 00:40:50.706
Charlie Newland took over

00:40:50.739 --> 00:40:55.706
and if I say nice things I would say
by far, the best chairman we ever had

00:40:55.739 --> 00:41:02.506
, uh he was the chairman of the
faculty, not of the dean. So when you had

00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:06.247
something that you wanted, Charlie,
walked with you to the dean and walked

00:41:06.280 --> 00:41:12.336
with you to the president. Uh and uh
we made great progress in that time.

00:41:12.369 --> 00:41:17.155
So he was, he was the second chairman,
each chairman in civil engineering

00:41:17.188 --> 00:41:22.796
with one exception, served exactly
seven years and, and there's a

00:41:22.829 --> 00:41:29.057
rationale for that. But uh, so Kirsten
was there seven years and Nan was

00:41:29.090 --> 00:41:34.856
there seven years and uh Lewis Hill
was there seven years and Charlie

00:41:34.889 --> 00:41:42.889
o'bannon was there seven years. Uh
Touma was there one year

00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:47.405
o'bannon's departure was unexpected.

00:41:47.438 --> 00:41:51.796
And so Truman said, yes, he'd fill in
but for one year and there's no

00:41:51.829 --> 00:41:58.385
question if you don't have somebody.
No, I get that. Uh

00:41:58.418 --> 00:42:06.418
Then I guess it was Larry Mays, I
think was next. And then uh Sandy

00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.956
Houston now, Sandy served 10 years.
That's the exception that I'm talking

00:42:10.989 --> 00:42:18.227
about. And Tus served one year. Uh two
men, the one year he was chairman,

00:42:18.260 --> 00:42:23.307
totally reorganized the law office
totally. I mean, there was no

00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:26.967
assimilation between the way it was
before he got in there and after he

00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:35.000
got it all for the good, um let's go
into uh Tua and uh tell his story how

00:42:37.289 --> 00:42:44.445
he came into the picture. And uh his
life started back to the beginning,

00:42:44.478 --> 00:42:52.478
John Tua was uh Czechoslovakia. And
when he was 28 years old, he was

00:42:53.188 --> 00:42:59.997
elected to the junta that they had 100
people in, in Czechoslovakia, one

00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:03.497
of the youngest. It's not the
youngest. That's about the time that the

00:43:03.530 --> 00:43:10.655
Russians came in and took over. Uh he
was much anti Russian as was his

00:43:10.688 --> 00:43:16.936
wife, Hanna. And so they were not well
liked by the new regime. He escaped

00:43:16.969 --> 00:43:22.086
over the line and it sounds like third
man theme. Uh He went into a bar

00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:25.767
guy came in with a green feather in
his hat. When the guy tipped his hat,

00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:29.486
John was to follow him. And when he
tipped his hat again, he was to run

00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:34.327
across the border and that's the way
he got out, couldn't take his wife

00:43:34.360 --> 00:43:39.086
because she, that wouldn't have
worked. And she was very ill anyway. She

00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:44.956
was not, well at all, she was in
prison. In fact, and they decided the

00:43:44.989 --> 00:43:47.865
government at that time, it was
cheaper to throw her out in the streets

00:43:47.898 --> 00:43:52.396
than would let her die in prison. So
she was out in the street again, two

00:43:52.429 --> 00:43:55.845
months later, she got out and she got
out because she didn't know what to

00:43:55.878 --> 00:44:00.095
do. She went to the border and she ran
right at the guard and it's so

00:44:00.128 --> 00:44:05.477
surprised to, they didn't do anything.
She went right past him into

00:44:05.510 --> 00:44:11.936
Germany and uh took her a month to
find John. He was working for an

00:44:11.969 --> 00:44:18.256
American contractor who was working in
Germany. Uh, as soon as they both

00:44:18.289 --> 00:44:21.916
got through, the contractor said I'll
sponsor you back to the US if you

00:44:21.949 --> 00:44:26.717
want to go and I'll support you for a
while. So he did. But out on Long

00:44:26.750 --> 00:44:31.566
Island, he had this estate with a,
with a gatehouse and so he stocked it

00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:35.727
with food and everything and said you,
you can stay here till you're on

00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:40.695
your feet. So John in some short
amount of time got a job with one of the

00:44:40.728 --> 00:44:44.655
best structural firms in town. He
decided he wanted to get his master's

00:44:44.688 --> 00:44:50.767
what town was in. Well, it was New
York City that was uh we Weisinger

00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:56.227
Weissinger, Weisinger, something like
that. The firm, well known firm. He

00:44:56.260 --> 00:44:59.845
went to Oklahoma State. I don't know
why he picked Oklahoma State, but he

00:44:59.878 --> 00:45:02.756
went there and he got his master's and
the day he got his master's, they

00:45:02.789 --> 00:45:06.365
made him chairman of the department

00:45:06.398 --> 00:45:11.675
because you just knew everything and
everybody better than anybody else.

00:45:11.708 --> 00:45:17.135
And he built that department and uh
and the structural, he built the

00:45:17.168 --> 00:45:21.807
structural especially and he produced
some just outstanding phd S. I'm not

00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:29.186
, he was my mentor, but I'm not
including one of these uh uh JT Oden uh

00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:35.236
has more international awards than any
family member in the country. Uh

00:45:35.269 --> 00:45:40.026
For he was awarded everything he was
in find elements that area. He ended

00:45:40.059 --> 00:45:45.425
up in Texas. We I tried to hire him
very hard and uh he was willing to

00:45:45.458 --> 00:45:50.736
come. Truman had a rule that if you
got your phd there, you couldn't teach

00:45:50.769 --> 00:45:54.977
there for two years, you had to go
someplace else, learn some other things

00:45:55.010 --> 00:46:01.807
and then you could consider coming
back. So was available and uh we were

00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:08.416
pretty good friends uh, and he was
gonna come, it was all set and the

00:46:08.449 --> 00:46:12.655
paperwork got snowed over in the dean,
in the President's office someplace

00:46:12.688 --> 00:46:17.217
this is here at, here at A U. And
eventually, uh, JT called me and said I

00:46:17.250 --> 00:46:22.327
can't wait any longer. I'm gonna have
to accept a different offer. Uh, he

00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:24.767
wasn't trying to jack the money up or
anything. You just said it's over,

00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:29.865
you know, over. So, but he produced,
uh you know, people who were chairman

00:46:29.898 --> 00:46:37.796
of departments and dean and all of uh
a very unusual man.

00:46:37.829 --> 00:46:44.217
He wrote books like other people wrote
letters. He just, uh he had uh 19

00:46:44.250 --> 00:46:47.077
books in print at one time.

00:46:47.110 --> 00:46:50.396
He was the highest paid author of
mcgraw Hill, which is the big

00:46:50.429 --> 00:46:57.296
engineering. He got the, the rest of
the authors got about 10%. He got 15%

00:46:57.329 --> 00:47:03.057
on all the books that were sold. His,
his last book was an engineering

00:47:03.090 --> 00:47:08.155
handbook. This mathematics were
unbelievable. It was a mathematics

00:47:08.188 --> 00:47:15.546
handbook and it went into publication.
The 1st 10,000 went was $70. 1st

00:47:15.579 --> 00:47:20.287
10,000 were sold before it ever went
to print. The next 10,000 were sold

00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:25.936
when it went to print, it was a 3rd
10,000 before you could buy one place

00:47:25.969 --> 00:47:32.845
and, and he got $10 per book. You can
add that up pretty quick, you know.

00:47:32.878 --> 00:47:38.416
And uh he had a whole bunch of books
that they translated in the foreign

00:47:38.449 --> 00:47:46.276
languages. He sold 5000 books a year
at the University of Mexico.

00:47:46.309 --> 00:47:53.115
Uh But anyway, and, and at half of
this, he was, uh you got every teaching

00:47:53.148 --> 00:47:59.845
excellent award that offered. Then the
uh Western House has one nationally.

00:47:59.878 --> 00:48:04.115
You got that. He had every one of them
a work. And I had the benefit of

00:48:04.148 --> 00:48:07.615
having an office next to him. In fact,
my big benefit was I had, he had

00:48:07.648 --> 00:48:15.648
one side and I on the other side, no,
Charlie Hoyt had left when he, when

00:48:16.820 --> 00:48:22.307
he finishes, uh, his chairmanship, he,
he left, went to Dame and Ward. Uh

00:48:22.340 --> 00:48:27.916
, but I had this office between these
two guys.

00:48:27.949 --> 00:48:34.566
Charlie Ho hummed. Hm. I whistled. I
do it without knowing. I'm doing it.

00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.595
And John Toas smoked one cigar in the
morning. We, we all got there about

00:48:38.628 --> 00:48:41.845
seven o'clock. We knew who was there.

00:48:41.878 --> 00:48:47.497
There was the Hummer in the cigar or,
you know, uh, his office door was

00:48:47.530 --> 00:48:49.916
never closed.

00:48:49.949 --> 00:48:55.166
He, he, uh, welcomed every student
that came by. He always had a large

00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:59.936
black board in his office. He didn't
show them how to do anything. He put

00:48:59.969 --> 00:49:05.376
him at the board and they, they
figured it out. Uh, the, uh, most orderly

00:49:05.409 --> 00:49:09.706
person you ever saw, he, he was
writing something when they came in, he

00:49:09.739 --> 00:49:13.646
was in the middle of a sentence. He
dropped the pen, pushed over work with

00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:17.416
him. Pick it up and start writing in
the same place again. He had a, a

00:49:17.449 --> 00:49:24.095
matrix table in his drawer, uh, for
Masters students.

00:49:24.128 --> 00:49:28.445
Ok. Here's a subject that can be done
or here's what they could look at

00:49:28.478 --> 00:49:33.195
this matrix and pick out a subject
topic. You mean? You mean a thesis

00:49:33.228 --> 00:49:41.228
topic? The top masters thesis? Uh, he,
uh, anyway, just, he did everything

00:49:43.438 --> 00:49:49.155
so well. He, he, he, he totally
bludgeoned the stock market. He worked out

00:49:49.188 --> 00:49:53.256
a system on this, they say no system.
That's not true. John Toomey had a

00:49:53.289 --> 00:49:58.376
system and he, and he held to it, he
tried to explain it to me one time

00:49:58.409 --> 00:50:03.816
that he kept 15 stocks that he kept
order of. They had all kinds of

00:50:03.849 --> 00:50:07.695
criteria and they could move on or off
his list. We got to a certain point

00:50:07.728 --> 00:50:13.256
to sold 50%. We got to another point.
Um, I don't know how much he had. I

00:50:13.289 --> 00:50:18.425
, I know that he was paying income one
time. He told me he paid $60,000

00:50:18.458 --> 00:50:23.816
income tax. And I said, boy, you must
hate that. He said, I love it being

00:50:23.849 --> 00:50:31.849
in this country. He said that's cheap
price to pay for all in here. Oh, he

00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:38.425
uh, well, I, and he, he never lorded
it over anybody. You know, he never,

00:50:38.458 --> 00:50:41.706
he called the student scholar. They
come to the door and say, come in

00:50:41.739 --> 00:50:49.739
scholar and uh they, they uh, they all
ended up liking him.

00:50:50.369 --> 00:50:55.727
He had some unique ways of doing
things. What wasn't every faculty member

00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:00.336
that agreed exactly with the way he
did it. But, uh, for, he didn't

00:51:00.369 --> 00:51:05.155
believe in math courses, graduate
degree, you got to some point in the

00:51:05.188 --> 00:51:07.856
problem you're working on and then you
learned the math, you needed to

00:51:07.889 --> 00:51:12.037
solve that problem and you didn't want
until you learn that and then you

00:51:12.070 --> 00:51:17.566
started the rest of the way. Uh,

00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:24.405
so he died early, his wife died, died
about the time I retired. Uh, yeah,

00:51:24.438 --> 00:51:31.655
his wife, it's another indication of
his strength. You know, he had cancer

00:51:31.688 --> 00:51:36.925
and his wife was still ill really. She
never became really healthy and she

00:51:36.958 --> 00:51:42.796
was in the health care center over at
the hospital and he had the cancer.

00:51:42.829 --> 00:51:46.206
He had to go in, he couldn't manage.
So he, they were both in the health

00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:51.967
care center. He willed himself to live
past her. I mean, when they started

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:59.186
, he should have died first. But he
just, that was, and when he died, he

00:51:59.219 --> 00:52:03.836
got himself released from the hospital
for the night. And a group of 10 of

00:52:03.869 --> 00:52:08.486
us went to the restaurant and toasted
his wife, Hannah and he had this

00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:16.217
empty chair with a rose in it.

00:52:16.250 --> 00:52:21.626
No,

00:52:21.659 --> 00:52:24.666
you hear that? So, so

00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:29.456
we got his uh was just getting ready
to enter college when he, when we

00:52:29.489 --> 00:52:34.316
enticed to, to move here or the fact
that I was here and Phil was here and

00:52:34.349 --> 00:52:39.816
there were some things we some
leverage we had. But he came here and his

00:52:39.849 --> 00:52:45.456
son kept, went into civil engineering.
Well, the son was no, John, the son

00:52:45.489 --> 00:52:49.816
could fix anything. I mean, he figured
out some way to work the camera

00:52:49.849 --> 00:52:54.256
without, you know, he just solved
problems and he, he bought an old beat

00:52:54.289 --> 00:52:58.856
up boat that nobody wanted. He fixed
it all up. He, he raced the boat, uh

00:52:58.889 --> 00:53:06.889
, but he wasn't a good student and he
was in my class like here the D and

00:53:07.780 --> 00:53:12.316
I went to see John. I said, you know,
John, I can't consciously give him

00:53:12.349 --> 00:53:19.967
anything but ad I said that's what he
earned. He said I'd give him the

00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:24.936
so the sun uh inherited which must,
must have been a tremendous amount of

00:53:24.969 --> 00:53:28.776
money. But he also bought land in
still water. Nobody wanted land in still

00:53:28.809 --> 00:53:33.106
water. It was all swamp. He bought a
section of land. He traded old car

00:53:33.139 --> 00:53:39.115
for a section of swamp land. He
eventually bought the, built the country

00:53:39.148 --> 00:53:42.856
club on the land that he had there. Is
that the Oklahoma State country

00:53:42.889 --> 00:53:50.385
club? Not the carton carton, the
private club? Yeah. Uh

00:53:50.418 --> 00:53:55.876
and the books, you know, just the
money that he made off books alone had

00:53:55.909 --> 00:54:01.396
to be tremendous. The stock market. Uh
And so the son inherited all this

00:54:01.429 --> 00:54:07.227
stuff, I guess he had no relatives
left in Czechoslovakia had no relatives

00:54:07.260 --> 00:54:12.537
in this country. He had no relatives
and

00:54:12.570 --> 00:54:20.570
his son married the heir to the Heinz
fortune. Now the sun is a highly uh

00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:26.736
desirable contractor, general
superintendent because if the tractor

00:54:26.769 --> 00:54:31.956
doesn't start or the thing he goes out
and starts it, you know, he had his

00:54:31.989 --> 00:54:37.186
skills and John never thought, never
took it. He never tried to do

00:54:37.219 --> 00:54:41.037
anything about it. You know, he just
kid went, he got a degree, got, got

00:54:41.070 --> 00:54:47.686
his civil enginery degree. Uh Did he
go back to Czechoslovakia after the

00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:55.456
wall went down when, when they finally
tricked the Russians out, the Czech

00:54:55.489 --> 00:54:59.856
fighting government invited all the
living members of the junta back.

00:54:59.889 --> 00:55:06.077
There were 18 left out of the 100 they
symbolically turned the country

00:55:06.110 --> 00:55:11.506
over to the at 18. So John was the
leader, right again, he had the cancer

00:55:11.539 --> 00:55:19.539
at the time. This was in 86 or 80
somewhere in there. 87. Uh

00:55:19.789 --> 00:55:23.986
Yeah, he was dead. Uh

00:55:24.019 --> 00:55:28.747
You went back later. You don't need,
he had a huge library, you can guess.

00:55:28.780 --> 00:55:36.115
And it was a French German Check
Italian. He could read all the languages.

00:55:36.148 --> 00:55:40.595
Uh oh and he, of course he didn't have
a phd

00:55:40.628 --> 00:55:46.546
and nobody dared say anything, you
know, cause uh but he finally decided

00:55:46.579 --> 00:55:50.666
to maybe it would be a good idea. So
when he was, he, when he left

00:55:50.699 --> 00:55:55.057
Oklahoma State, he actually spent
seven years in Boulder Colorado and he

00:55:55.090 --> 00:55:59.227
was writing books. He guested on their
university, but he wasn't a member

00:55:59.260 --> 00:56:05.095
of faculty. Um

00:56:05.128 --> 00:56:09.517
Where would I go? I thought so he got
his phd, he got his phd. They gave

00:56:09.550 --> 00:56:14.756
him a phd just based on, on his
helping them. And, and he was there seven

00:56:14.789 --> 00:56:21.736
years. So he did a lot then he, he
went to Switzerland for a semester to

00:56:21.769 --> 00:56:26.776
the University of Zurich and he had
just finished a book on advanced

00:56:26.809 --> 00:56:34.000
dynamics. Way beyond anything anybody
had ever published. They gave a phd.

00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:39.006
So we had two. We called it Doc Weird.

00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:44.945
How did you convince him to come to
Tempe? Well, I got to know him, of

00:56:44.978 --> 00:56:51.066
course, pretty well when he was my
advisor and, and, and uh Lewis knew him

00:56:51.099 --> 00:56:57.307
well and was well like, and uh he just
wanted to get a little change in

00:56:57.340 --> 00:57:03.256
what he was doing. He loved to teach
undergraduates. He, he never, never

00:57:03.289 --> 00:57:06.106
had a semester, neither did I never
had a semester that I didn't teach an

00:57:06.139 --> 00:57:10.566
undergraduate course. But, but John
never did. He, he, he taught statics,

00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.566
he taught state materials. Uh and he
loved it, you know, and so this was

00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:22.876
an opportunity for him to come here.
Uh And uh in fact, he told when he

00:57:22.909 --> 00:57:29.967
got to the retirement stage, uh he
said, yeah, I'll retire but I'll teach

00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:34.186
for nothing if you just give me an
office

00:57:34.219 --> 00:57:38.106
because that's what he wanted to do.
He was so organized. He got up every

00:57:38.139 --> 00:57:42.206
morning at five o'clock,

00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:47.997
walked the dog and had a smoke, his
cigar, got home about six Hannah fixed

00:57:48.030 --> 00:57:53.436
him breakfast. He was in the office at
seven. Never left the office, took

00:57:53.469 --> 00:57:59.477
his lunch. Never, never up, went home
at five o'clock,

00:57:59.510 --> 00:58:04.876
read the paper had fun with, with
Hanna, you know, conversation, nine

00:58:04.909 --> 00:58:09.767
o'clock went into his office in his
home and worked till midnight and he

00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:14.717
got up at five o'clock the next
morning, you know. Uh, and I don't know

00:58:14.750 --> 00:58:19.146
that it ever changed.

00:58:19.179 --> 00:58:25.787
Good story. Yeah, he's, well,
everybody, no, I shouldn't say that there

00:58:25.820 --> 00:58:32.876
were people that didn't understand his
system, especially, uh,

00:58:32.909 --> 00:58:38.086
well, I think one of my great honors
was at my retirement. He said I was

00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:44.037
the brother he never had,

00:58:44.070 --> 00:58:48.135
uh, at the end of the story.

00:58:48.168 --> 00:58:51.186
Ok.

00:58:51.219 --> 00:58:55.586
No, that's ok. I have a little bit of,
strangely, I have a little throat

00:58:55.619 --> 00:58:59.635
problem. I had surgery. The one thing
that sometimes gives you trouble

00:58:59.668 --> 00:59:04.896
with water and the reason is, you
know, being injury, you wonder why the

00:59:04.929 --> 00:59:09.037
hell is water giving? It's, uh, too
light a weight to trigger the mech

00:59:09.070 --> 00:59:15.626
swallowing mechanism. Um, what you do
is I don't do it too much now, but

00:59:15.659 --> 00:59:20.626
for a long time I thickened the water.
You buy thickener and you put it in

00:59:20.659 --> 00:59:24.186
the water and it doesn't change the
taste, but it increases the weight,

00:59:24.219 --> 00:59:29.425
what it is. It's a pressure activated,
uh, gate and the, the weight has to

00:59:29.458 --> 00:59:33.595
activate it to decide whether the food
is going into the lungs or into the

00:59:33.628 --> 00:59:37.217
stomach. Uh, that's where you, where
you get the bad pneumonia when the

00:59:37.250 --> 00:59:43.006
food goes into the, into the lungs.
So, this little gate is there and

00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:47.345
depending on that way, the trips it or
doesn't trip it. And, uh, so water

00:59:47.378 --> 00:59:54.626
, uh, will cause me to cough. I only
draw, swallowing, you know, it's not

00:59:54.659 --> 00:59:58.756
a matter of choking or anything, but
I'll get a cough that goes on for

00:59:58.789 --> 01:00:02.727
five minutes or something like that.
And water, water is one of the things

01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:08.566
that still does it. I mean, I had
chili for lunch, you know, uh, you'd

01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:14.307
think, but that's heavy. See that,
that, that triggers the system. Well,

01:00:14.340 --> 01:00:22.340
Mexican food, no problem. Alcohol. No.
And I don't know if that's the same.

01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:27.336
No, alcohol is burned, was burned. I
think when they did the surgery they

01:00:27.369 --> 01:00:33.385
maybe took a coating of some kind off
that protected it. But I take a sip

01:00:33.418 --> 01:00:38.767
of Manhattan. You'd be scraping me off
that ceiling.

01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:46.800
But that's a little enough penalty to
pay for being able to do as I do. No.

01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:52.135
 Well, um, are you rolling yet? John,

01:00:52.168 --> 01:00:55.577
uh, the other name there is Lewis
Hill. I don't know if you want to

01:00:55.610 --> 01:01:00.566
elaborate more on Lewis. I think he
was your first mentor here. Yeah,

01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:06.615
Lewis, uh, came in here to teach. Oh,
you go, came in here to teach just

01:01:06.648 --> 01:01:08.896
about the time I came over to the
class because there wasn't any

01:01:08.929 --> 01:01:15.416
engineering prior to 58. That was the
beginning. And so, uh I think the

01:01:15.449 --> 01:01:19.807
class I took was probably the first
class maybe spring of 58 or something

01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:25.816
like that. Uh And uh two and I got to
hit it was, we were all people in

01:01:25.849 --> 01:01:30.077
that class who had experience it. We
didn't have an undergraduate coming

01:01:30.110 --> 01:01:33.796
up yet for the graduate course. So
these were all people who worked in

01:01:33.829 --> 01:01:41.436
town uh and myself with the Salt River
project. And uh so we, we and Lewis

01:01:41.469 --> 01:01:47.695
had practical experience and so we all
linked fairly well. We, we, we were

01:01:47.728 --> 01:01:53.925
together on what we were doing. Uh And
then when I got the offer of the

01:01:53.958 --> 01:01:59.206
job here and I uh Lewis of course, and
I became closer because now we were

01:01:59.239 --> 01:02:05.405
seeing each other every day and they
were and uh he was uh he did me some

01:02:05.438 --> 01:02:13.438
favors along the line in terms of
support. Uh It was, he was only,

01:02:15.179 --> 01:02:20.186
well, it was what, 14 years after, not
quite, probably 12 years after I

01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:26.586
came uh that he became chairman. And
so we had a period there where we, we

01:02:26.619 --> 01:02:34.206
were just trucks, faculty and we were
highly productive that time. And um

01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:39.827
he became chairman, we didn't really
replace him and, and we, we eroded uh

01:02:39.860 --> 01:02:47.860
at that time, but no Lewis was a
benefactor. Uh

01:02:51.530 --> 01:02:56.626
That's where a lot of people, if I
didn't, uh

01:02:56.659 --> 01:03:04.659
nobody does it on their own, you know,
and, and I sure didn't

01:03:05.849 --> 01:03:12.336
for the Deans. Now we had Thompson
that was in there for

01:03:12.369 --> 01:03:19.717
20 years, maybe. Yeah. Then you had
Roland Hayden. Yeah. Uh, just compare

01:03:19.750 --> 01:03:26.066
those two personalities. Uh, you are
trying to get me in trouble.

01:03:26.099 --> 01:03:30.997
Uh, I thought Lee Thompson was a
wonder. They have both deceased now, you

01:03:31.030 --> 01:03:37.046
know that, but that doesn't make any
difference on what I would say. Uh,

01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:42.896
Lee Lee did, you know Lee didn't have
uh an engineering degree, Lee

01:03:42.929 --> 01:03:48.106
Thompson did. Raley's phd was in
physics from the University of Indiana.

01:03:48.139 --> 01:03:55.046
Oh, but Lee had this, what I thought
at that time was the right concept

01:03:55.079 --> 01:04:01.236
which was loaded. We were all about
the same age. All, all the faculty uh

01:04:01.269 --> 01:04:05.925
was to load up with people who had
experience and uh and tell the stories

01:04:05.958 --> 01:04:12.706
in class. Um you know, humanize
engineering a little bit when they build

01:04:12.739 --> 01:04:18.376
GW it was built basically on groups
of, on 2nd, 3rd floor of four offices

01:04:18.409 --> 01:04:23.376
, four suites, four suites, four
suites. His rule was no two could be from

01:04:23.409 --> 01:04:28.836
the same department because you had to
face with these people and you had

01:04:28.869 --> 01:04:32.967
to know them and you had to know
things that they do. And I thought that

01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:40.526
was wonderful. Uh I got to know
Charlie Hoyt, uh you know, he was

01:04:40.559 --> 01:04:43.727
industrial engineering so he couldn't
be down in the industrial

01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:51.760
engineering area. Uh So, and the Lee
was a,

01:04:52.090 --> 01:04:55.796
I don't know, he, he wasn't
particularly a warm person but he was, uh, he

01:04:55.829 --> 01:05:01.026
listened, uh, and he had, uh, had some
help. He had George Beakley

01:05:01.059 --> 01:05:07.106
listening for him at the time. Uh,

01:05:07.139 --> 01:05:13.345
if you needed to see Lee Thompson,
you, you call the office and, and, uh,

01:05:13.378 --> 01:05:18.945
Joan Minal, uh, would, uh, say, well,
are you in your office? Yeah. Well,

01:05:18.978 --> 01:05:22.327
I'll give you a call in 10 minutes
when he's free. You go down. That was

01:05:22.360 --> 01:05:30.146
fine, you know. Uh, and, uh, um, he
was, he, he did a really good job and

01:05:30.179 --> 01:05:32.195
I think

01:05:32.228 --> 01:05:38.066
any other system might not have worked
as well. At that time

01:05:38.099 --> 01:05:42.836
when, when Thompson retired,

01:05:42.869 --> 01:05:48.405
there was a, a change in the way
funding was prior to that, there was a

01:05:48.438 --> 01:05:53.807
lot more federal and state funding for
research. NSF was much bigger. N

01:05:53.840 --> 01:06:00.497
DEA was big. The Navy had huge
research funding. Uh And so most of our

01:06:00.530 --> 01:06:06.776
funding, most of our research was
funded in that way. This is prior to

01:06:06.809 --> 01:06:13.606
Hayden. Yes, prior to Hayden. And so
some, few years before Hayden, it

01:06:13.639 --> 01:06:20.017
became evident that the, the funding
was drying up. Not entirely but with

01:06:20.050 --> 01:06:26.876
a different ball game. Uh, first of
all, they refused to fund equipment,

01:06:26.909 --> 01:06:30.925
you had to find some funding for the
equipment. Well, the older schools,

01:06:30.958 --> 01:06:32.936
Purdue,

01:06:32.969 --> 01:06:36.925
they already had the equipment that
made it tough to get the, the funding

01:06:36.958 --> 01:06:41.796
because you were putting in some money
for equipment and they already had

01:06:41.829 --> 01:06:45.586
this equipment, you know, Uh, so it
changed the whole funding thing and

01:06:45.619 --> 01:06:51.747
that's why I said something about if
that's the different situation. So,

01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:57.497
about that time, somewhere up above
decided we needed to, to lean much

01:06:57.530 --> 01:07:03.717
more toward research and, and private
funding research. Civil engineering

01:07:03.750 --> 01:07:08.615
has virtually no private funding
research. The highway department is about

01:07:08.648 --> 01:07:15.327
the only place. Construction companies
do not fund research. A Isc and A I

01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:19.227
si don't have much money. They're,
they're, they're dependent upon

01:07:19.260 --> 01:07:24.037
contractors to give money. So if you
can get $10,000 out of, you're really

01:07:24.070 --> 01:07:29.876
doing something. Uh I had a big
contract with the ISIF supported two

01:07:29.909 --> 01:07:34.595
faculty and two graduate students for
four years on a si research. But

01:07:34.628 --> 01:07:39.845
that, that was early uh that dried up.
So they were looking for somebody

01:07:39.878 --> 01:07:47.095
who would do that. And uh Roland
appeared to be that man.

01:07:47.128 --> 01:07:53.175
The funding he was looking for was
highly electro engineering funding. Uh

01:07:53.208 --> 01:07:59.977
some mechanical but we got to where we
didn't uh when I retired, they

01:08:00.010 --> 01:08:04.267
didn't replace me with the structures
person. When John and Toomer died,

01:08:04.300 --> 01:08:09.666
they didn't replace him with a because
you didn't draw research money like

01:08:09.699 --> 01:08:14.816
uh there was still some research money
out there, but you had to get some

01:08:14.849 --> 01:08:19.866
support from university to get it
matching fund or that sort of thing. Oh

01:08:19.899 --> 01:08:25.595
, and so this is leading in the later
on, but that's what happened to

01:08:25.628 --> 01:08:31.717
structures. And technically right now
they have one man in structures,

01:08:31.750 --> 01:08:36.726
huh? That's the past for Fetus.

01:08:36.759 --> 01:08:42.217
Nice, neat guy. Features, concrete and
L A. Very bright. Very, he, he's

01:08:42.250 --> 01:08:48.237
got a huge amount of, of, uh, research
unfunded research that he does. Uh

01:08:48.270 --> 01:08:56.076
, is there much graduate program there
or is it, does he teach undergrad?

01:08:56.109 --> 01:09:00.416
He teaches, uh, I think, like, I
didn't, like, do it, did he always

01:09:00.449 --> 01:09:06.717
teaches one undergrad? I understand
they no longer have the common core.

01:09:06.750 --> 01:09:13.236
OK. So all the engineers wouldn't have
to take a statics course.

01:09:13.269 --> 01:09:20.546
No, that's right. Uh That's a tough
question. The, the core didn't

01:09:20.579 --> 01:09:27.555
disappear here. It was worked on, I
mean, electro engineering. So we don't

01:09:27.588 --> 01:09:34.756
really need statics. We, we don't use
statics and we talked to him at the

01:09:34.789 --> 01:09:38.836
court time and said, yes, you do. You
need it, you need, you need to work

01:09:38.869 --> 01:09:43.366
in the field with electronics people
and all you at least need some but,

01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:48.655
but the electric will say no, no, we
can better use that course for

01:09:48.688 --> 01:09:52.375
something else. So it wasn't a matter
of the whole fact, they're not

01:09:52.408 --> 01:09:56.455
really out of the court right now.
They have, they have some combined

01:09:56.488 --> 01:10:02.756
courses. Um I was talking to pastor. I
see him often. The only, only

01:10:02.789 --> 01:10:09.345
remnant of, of my time here that I see
often. Oh And he teaches uh

01:10:09.378 --> 01:10:14.876
numerical methods course that's used
by mechanical and civil. So there's

01:10:14.909 --> 01:10:21.175
still some core that's not totally
independent, but it just, it kind of

01:10:21.208 --> 01:10:29.208
eroded instead of e exploded, you
know, it, uh, and I think that, that, uh

01:10:29.229 --> 01:10:35.845
, Hayden was not really a supporter of
the core. I think that the dean,

01:10:35.878 --> 01:10:41.706
dean doesn't support it and other
things are making it tough. Mm. It's

01:10:41.739 --> 01:10:48.147
hard to do.

01:10:48.180 --> 01:10:52.487
How about following deans? Like Chang
and Crouch? I didn't know, I knew

01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:57.515
Peter Crouch but he wasn't a dean when
I knew him. Uh,

01:10:57.548 --> 01:11:04.357
Chang wasn't here very long. Jane. No.
Uh,

01:11:04.390 --> 01:11:10.256
you go from Texas. My, my last major
job was chairman of the search

01:11:10.289 --> 01:11:17.706
committee for a replacement for, uh
Tortilla, you know, tell me, what was

01:11:17.739 --> 01:11:25.739
that gonna take it? And, uh, what's
the guy's name

01:11:26.819 --> 01:11:32.046
anyway? I was, I was, maybe it's
better. I don't have his name. I was

01:11:32.079 --> 01:11:35.687
chair of the, of that committee

01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:41.656
and somehow George Beakley got the
impression that Perdue wanted him for

01:11:41.689 --> 01:11:45.376
chairman really, really bad.

01:11:45.409 --> 01:11:48.187
Of course, I had connections back at
Purdue. The department chairman,

01:11:48.220 --> 01:11:51.916
civil was a good friend of mine back
here.

01:11:51.949 --> 01:11:55.296
He said who,

01:11:55.329 --> 01:12:00.317
but he had convinced George and so
the, the committee recommendation was

01:12:00.350 --> 01:12:06.586
not to hire him. George convinced role
in the Ireland.

01:12:06.619 --> 01:12:10.156
Uh

01:12:10.189 --> 01:12:14.607
So that was the politics kind of went
that way. It's, uh, you know, I,

01:12:14.640 --> 01:12:18.196
like I said, I don't want to be
bitter. I'm not, it's a different

01:12:18.229 --> 01:12:24.845
situation, a different world and, and,
and more power to them to do what

01:12:24.878 --> 01:12:31.156
they're doing. Uh George Beakley,

01:12:31.189 --> 01:12:37.845
unusual man. Uh I was one of the ones
that got along with them. Just great.

01:12:37.878 --> 01:12:43.385
Uh, George did me a lot of favors in
his position there. Uh, a lot of

01:12:43.418 --> 01:12:50.706
warnings at times but what I was doing
doing, uh,

01:12:50.739 --> 01:12:54.527
George was, uh, an opportunist.

01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:58.107
He waited till he saw which way the
wind was blowing and then he fled the

01:12:58.140 --> 01:13:05.015
tail. Uh, it's not all bad for an
associate chairman. You know, somebody,

01:13:05.048 --> 01:13:09.226
you gonna do the dirty work. Who's
dean, the associate dean, somebody's

01:13:09.259 --> 01:13:14.987
got to do. Uh Charlie Newland became
one of my best friends. In fact, I

01:13:15.020 --> 01:13:20.286
did the eulogy for Charlie when he
died. Uh

01:13:20.319 --> 01:13:24.796
and the eulogy for Charlie Hoyt. What
do you think? Tell us a little about

01:13:24.829 --> 01:13:30.385
Ho I've heard that name a cherub.
That's what he looked like. Do you know

01:13:30.418 --> 01:13:38.418
him short? Uh Good smile, uh Very
bright. Uh Renaissance man, Charlie had

01:13:41.779 --> 01:13:46.446
more capability and more things. He,
you, he could play four bars of a

01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:49.706
classic music piece and he would tell
you who recorded it what it was and

01:13:49.739 --> 01:13:56.406
what it was recorded. Uh He raised
orchids here in Arizona. He had a

01:13:56.439 --> 01:14:01.576
building built in the backyard, uh the
air cooled off supper and he built

01:14:01.609 --> 01:14:06.586
, he, he, he grew orchids. He was one
of the first people to ever come up

01:14:06.619 --> 01:14:12.967
with uh color. He, he had a chemical
well start back for his father had a

01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:17.217
machine shop in Indianapolis. That was
the start. And so Charlie went to

01:14:17.250 --> 01:14:22.967
Purdue and got a degree in mechanical
engineering, I think, uh, move the

01:14:23.000 --> 01:14:29.135
company to Mishawaka or Elkhart
Elkhart. Uh,

01:14:29.168 --> 01:14:34.317
and got, they had, the union started
to get to him there, bother him. And

01:14:34.350 --> 01:14:38.095
finally he gave the company to the
union.

01:14:38.128 --> 01:14:42.256
The juniors. Well, they were cheating
each other all the time. The guys,

01:14:42.289 --> 01:14:45.305
they finally came back and said,
Charlie, will you manage it for us? You

01:14:45.338 --> 01:14:47.456
know.

01:14:47.489 --> 01:14:55.489
Um, he, uh was great in photography.
He had, uh, he mixed all his own

01:14:56.810 --> 01:15:01.206
chemicals. He, he didn't believe in
buying fix or, or anything you made

01:15:01.239 --> 01:15:07.536
your own. He had uh a, a pressurized
room in the basement so he could

01:15:07.569 --> 01:15:15.569
develop a lot of dust getting on
anything. A great baseball fan. I see you

01:15:15.699 --> 01:15:21.527
had to sit next to me at, at Packard.
And, uh, when I did the eulogy, uh I

01:15:21.560 --> 01:15:26.476
it was an open casket. I had an, a su
baseball cap that I got from Bob

01:15:26.509 --> 01:15:31.116
Winkles, uh and put it on them in the
casket because he never missed a

01:15:31.149 --> 01:15:36.786
gate. Uh, but he did all those things
and he used to have that table in

01:15:36.819 --> 01:15:41.015
the union. Did you aware that there
was a table called Charlie's Table up

01:15:41.048 --> 01:15:48.675
in the faculty dining area in that
area and it was about 20 ft long and

01:15:48.708 --> 01:15:53.076
people would leave early to get there
so they could be at Charlie's table.

01:15:53.109 --> 01:15:58.527
His gift was for and I knew him for a
long time and, and well, he never

01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:03.456
told the same story twice. Not ever.

01:16:03.489 --> 01:16:08.305
Uh, that's tough how he does that, I
don't know. I, you know, I, I have

01:16:08.338 --> 01:16:11.576
about a half an hour span,

01:16:11.609 --> 01:16:16.546
making sure that I told him at some
other time. Uh,

01:16:16.579 --> 01:16:22.286
really, really nice man. Called his
wife the Dutchman. I forget what her

01:16:22.319 --> 01:16:30.319
name was, but all he ever called her
was the Dutchman. Uh, he, uh, but he

01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:34.086
decided to die. It was something like
doom in that respect. He had

01:16:34.119 --> 01:16:37.786
pancreatitis cancer.

01:16:37.819 --> 01:16:42.206
Uh back to uh he said

01:16:42.239 --> 01:16:49.567
he just stopped eating. He said it's
time each and that was it. Uh Let's

01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:54.967
go back to baseball. I used to see you
over there with, on the first base

01:16:55.000 --> 01:16:59.217
side of 19.

01:16:59.250 --> 01:17:04.536
Yeah, baseball is a big thing. It, it
still is for me. I, I been to the

01:17:04.569 --> 01:17:08.876
new stadium. You've been to the new
stadium? Well, you mean the Met? Well

01:17:08.909 --> 01:17:12.277
, I've been there years and years when
they, when they played over there,

01:17:12.310 --> 01:17:17.326
the funny story about that playing
over there was uh we're playing, I

01:17:17.359 --> 01:17:20.546
think we're playing the U A but I'm
not sure the major the story, a light

01:17:20.579 --> 01:17:25.036
plane hit the telephone, the electric
wires uh in the river bottom there

01:17:25.069 --> 01:17:29.866
landed. All right. But put out the
lights in the stadium in the baseball

01:17:29.899 --> 01:17:33.805
stadium. It was pitch black since it
was borrowed. We didn't have the keys

01:17:33.838 --> 01:17:38.515
to any place in there just go and
play, you know, and while the lights

01:17:38.548 --> 01:17:42.076
were out, somebody stole the second
base came out and took it off in the

01:17:42.109 --> 01:17:46.156
field. Did it?

01:17:46.189 --> 01:17:50.717
The lights came back on and it was
gone and we couldn't get in the, in the

01:17:50.750 --> 01:17:54.687
reserve area to get another one. So
the announcer said, would you please,

01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:58.326
we turn the lights out, would you
please put it back? They turned the

01:17:58.359 --> 01:18:03.467
lights out and sure enough, and who
had to throw it out to the,

01:18:03.500 --> 01:18:10.006
uh, anyway, it was ba baseball is
unique in that respect. Funny things

01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:13.916
happen in almost every game in
baseball. Funny things don't happen in

01:18:13.949 --> 01:18:19.226
football. Very rarely do they happen
in basketball. But I guarantee you in

01:18:19.259 --> 01:18:24.156
every baseball game, there's something
funny. I saw a guy threw his glove

01:18:24.189 --> 01:18:27.487
with the ball the first base, you
know, he couldn't get it out of his mid.

01:18:27.520 --> 01:18:31.317
So he just threw the whole thing over
there. Uh, what I see just

01:18:31.350 --> 01:18:34.437
yesterday, something,

01:18:34.470 --> 01:18:39.326
there was a funny one in, uh, in the
down backs game was a play at first

01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:44.996
base. Now, did you go up to Omaha for
any of the? I never did that. I

01:18:45.029 --> 01:18:50.406
should have and I would have really
enjoyed it, but I did, uh, I know

01:18:50.439 --> 01:18:54.857
people that go every year and a half
for 30 years. We've got a guy over

01:18:54.890 --> 01:19:01.586
here over at Tren Village. He has at
this point in 30 years. But, uh, No,

01:19:01.619 --> 01:19:08.217
but I'm, I'm a baseball fan. Uh, I,
they, they play 100 and 60 games, the

01:19:08.250 --> 01:19:15.246
Diamondbacks and I probably see part
or all of 100 and 20 of them. I told

01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:17.506
this,

01:19:17.539 --> 01:19:23.576
I do, I do like baseball. I don't know
where that was going, but talk

01:19:23.609 --> 01:19:26.805
about some of your interaction with
students. You were telling me you took

01:19:26.838 --> 01:19:32.656
field trips and one of them was to
Glen Canyon Dam before it was built. Oh

01:19:32.689 --> 01:19:36.706
, she wouldn't, wouldn't let me do
half the things I did when, when I had

01:19:36.739 --> 01:19:41.256
, when they were building the Glen
Canyon Dam,

01:19:41.289 --> 01:19:47.046
they had a foot bridge, suspension
bridge across the canyon downstream. So

01:19:47.079 --> 01:19:50.946
the people could get across because of
the residents on one side. I took

01:19:50.979 --> 01:19:55.336
the students up there and we walked
out on that suspension bridge. Uh,

01:19:55.369 --> 01:20:00.095
never could do it today. Wouldn't
allow us to do it. They build a 30 story

01:20:00.128 --> 01:20:03.626
building downtown, I'd, I'd take the
shooting down so they could see what

01:20:03.659 --> 01:20:07.555
it's like. And there'd be no banister
on the outside. It would be a rope,

01:20:07.588 --> 01:20:12.586
outlining the outside. Um, climb the
stairs. We had to climb ladders to

01:20:12.619 --> 01:20:19.496
get up to the floor. Man, you couldn't
do it today. You couldn't do it. Uh

01:20:19.529 --> 01:20:25.666
That would be another one of my
things. But, uh, students,

01:20:25.699 --> 01:20:31.187
they enjoyed the stories, they really
did and I think they were worthwhile.

01:20:31.220 --> 01:20:34.717
There were people that said, well, you
should be doing more technical

01:20:34.750 --> 01:20:39.226
stuff than just telling the whole war
story. I don't think so. I, I think

01:20:39.259 --> 01:20:45.116
that was part of, of uh, of their
believing me for one thing. No. And

01:20:45.149 --> 01:20:49.487
maybe they didn't believe me, but at
least they, they acted like they did.

01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:57.520
But uh uh I had a lot of great
students, really great students. Uh

01:20:57.810 --> 01:21:03.527
I'll tell you another little tumor
story tuba and me, I guess. But we are

01:21:03.560 --> 01:21:11.560
a, a female, a lady student getting
your phd in structures. And she had

01:21:12.329 --> 01:21:16.196
been assigned to one of the other
structures faculty. I won't use the name

01:21:16.229 --> 01:21:21.967
because you start me on that. We're
here till tomorrow. Uh He would, she

01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:26.206
would, he, he would say, OK, now,
here's, we're defining this problem.

01:21:26.239 --> 01:21:30.296
She'd solve that problem. And I'd say,
OK, here's another problem. Here's

01:21:30.329 --> 01:21:33.326
another problem. And then he was
publishing each one of these without her

01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:37.885
name. She'd solve it. And she came to
me, she was married, she was a

01:21:37.918 --> 01:21:42.987
registered engineer. She, she had
worked in industry, her husband was a

01:21:43.020 --> 01:21:50.055
narc here in Phoenix. And uh she did
beautiful work, just gorgeous

01:21:50.088 --> 01:21:54.126
enduring work. She came to me and she
was, you know, just in tears and she

01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:58.015
said, I've got to leave the program
because I, I can't stand it any longer.

01:21:58.048 --> 01:22:02.925
I've got to get to work and help
support the family and, and I said, well

01:22:02.958 --> 01:22:07.256
, why don't you get a different
advisor? And she said, he told me, if, if

01:22:07.289 --> 01:22:14.046
, if I left him, he would blackball me
and every other faculty member here.

01:22:14.079 --> 01:22:18.476
And I said, well, we'll see. So I went
down to the chair when I told him

01:22:18.509 --> 01:22:22.166
the story and I said she needs to be
changed. And he said, well, who take

01:22:22.199 --> 01:22:26.656
her? I said, two will take her. I had
a couple already right then. So she

01:22:26.689 --> 01:22:29.675
went to Tumor, got her phd. She's Dean
of Engineering over in California.

01:22:29.708 --> 01:22:32.446
 Now,

01:22:32.479 --> 01:22:40.479
Debbie Larson, the name, her husband
was a narc, what is that, uh,

01:22:40.819 --> 01:22:46.135
narcotic, uh, policeman. He'd go
undercover all the time. And, yeah, I go

01:22:46.168 --> 01:22:50.237
to see when we get together after she
got it. I made a friend with her one

01:22:50.270 --> 01:22:54.286
time. He'd come in, he'd have tattoos
and be grimy next time he was all

01:22:54.319 --> 01:22:59.437
dressed, you know, and, uh, she went
up to, from here, she, we couldn't

01:22:59.470 --> 01:23:03.675
hire her. They wouldn't hire here and
she had, it's perfect, you know,

01:23:03.708 --> 01:23:09.076
students gave me the highest report.
Uh, she got, they offer a job up at

01:23:09.109 --> 01:23:13.527
NAU. She went up there and became
department of the civil engineering

01:23:13.560 --> 01:23:19.866
chairman. And, uh, they offered her
husband a job on the n because he was

01:23:19.899 --> 01:23:25.147
in Phoenix. He said no, they weren't
excited enough.

01:23:25.180 --> 01:23:30.425
Yeah. So I'm interested where he is
now. She's in California. I've got to

01:23:30.458 --> 01:23:37.857
send her an email. But, uh, wonderful
girl. So, after you retired, uh,

01:23:37.890 --> 01:23:42.777
Harry, uh, hobbies, travel, uh,
committees at Friendship Village. What are

01:23:42.810 --> 01:23:50.810
you doing? Well, travel was a big
thing. So, when, and we, uh, we did what

01:23:51.338 --> 01:23:54.845
we call camping, which was a motor
home. You know, we never slept on the

01:23:54.878 --> 01:24:00.467
ground. But, uh, we, we, we traveled
that way and, and really enjoyed it,

01:24:00.500 --> 01:24:08.500
traveled a lot, two or three month
trips. And, uh, and I always liked

01:24:08.890 --> 01:24:13.156
history. History has always been, I, I
figured if I hadn't been an

01:24:13.189 --> 01:24:16.536
engineer, I'd probably been a
historian. Maybe I wouldn't have been

01:24:16.569 --> 01:24:20.616
success at it, but I would have
enjoyed it. So I read, I took all the

01:24:20.649 --> 01:24:24.196
courses over at Scottsdale Community
College in History and they had a

01:24:24.229 --> 01:24:29.246
fantastic history teacher over there.
Um I took them all for credit cause

01:24:29.279 --> 01:24:33.187
I would never let a student audit a
course because if they audited, they

01:24:33.220 --> 01:24:38.006
didn't pay attention, you know, they
had to work at it. So I uh rule was

01:24:38.039 --> 01:24:42.946
good for them. It was good for me. So
I took the classes over there and,

01:24:42.979 --> 01:24:48.737
uh read a lot of history, but I've
read everything I still do. I, I'll,

01:24:48.770 --> 01:24:54.925
I'll read a biography and, and I'll
read a murder mystery and, uh I enjoy

01:24:54.958 --> 01:25:02.156
them all. So, uh and those two things
occupied a lot of our time and

01:25:02.189 --> 01:25:09.055
photography. It's always been a hobby
back in film days. I had darkroom,

01:25:09.088 --> 01:25:17.088
the color printing, color and uh black
and white. And then when digital

01:25:17.128 --> 01:25:22.515
came along that I struggled with that
for a while. But uh it always made

01:25:22.548 --> 01:25:28.067
me mad, you know, when I went on film,
I wanted to do some solarization.

01:25:28.100 --> 01:25:32.607
It was a three hour job I get here and
I get the software and it's 10

01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:39.116
seconds. That's not as good as I
think. I'm gonna tell you. Uh I'm still,

01:25:39.149 --> 01:25:44.256
I still have my old film cameras and
if I could use the one camera that I

01:25:44.289 --> 01:25:48.595
have there, I would drop the digital
immediately. But, and just too much

01:25:48.628 --> 01:25:54.286
of a struggle to use film. Now you can
get it done. Temp camera repairer

01:25:54.319 --> 01:26:00.746
sells film and, and develops it, but
it's still, you know, so, but anyway

01:26:00.779 --> 01:26:05.456
, so that's been a big hobby of mine.
Um,

01:26:05.489 --> 01:26:11.845
a mixture of artist and photographer.
I, I took art at the Chicago Art

01:26:11.878 --> 01:26:17.836
Institute when I lived in Chicago and
did some art but I was never, never

01:26:17.869 --> 01:26:22.487
thought I was good. I, I never was
satisfied. I did part of it look good.

01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:27.206
I didn't like the rest of it. So my
approach in photography is, uh I'm

01:26:27.239 --> 01:26:32.196
really trying to create art when I do
it. Uh It's different from trying to

01:26:32.229 --> 01:26:38.796
get the most resolution possible that
that's not of interest to me. Uh My

01:26:38.829 --> 01:26:42.555
interest is if you look at it and say,
hey, that's neat. That's all,

01:26:42.588 --> 01:26:48.555
that's all I care about. So I spend a
fair amount of time with that in

01:26:48.588 --> 01:26:52.385
spells.

01:26:52.418 --> 01:26:59.217
I have exhibited a little bit but
very, very minor.

01:26:59.250 --> 01:27:03.527
So, what's your committee work over at
Friendship Village?

01:27:03.560 --> 01:27:08.746
Well, the biggest one is the
appreciation fund for the employees. I don't

01:27:08.779 --> 01:27:14.576
know if y'all are aware of that. We
don't tip over there. No tip in a lot.

01:27:14.609 --> 01:27:20.586
They take a tip. They're fire. Uh, so
what, what they do instead to make

01:27:20.619 --> 01:27:24.817
it attractive to employees, they, they
do treat them well. Uh, they have a

01:27:24.850 --> 01:27:28.536
big Christmas party and it's not
there. It's at the Hilton someplace with

01:27:28.569 --> 01:27:34.586
a 16 piece orchestra and, you know,
the whole bit. But also we, we collect

01:27:34.619 --> 01:27:39.796
money on a voluntary basis from the
residents and it's, it's about a month

01:27:39.829 --> 01:27:45.515
long process where we do make them
aware of the fact that what they're

01:27:45.548 --> 01:27:52.506
getting. Um, last year we raised
$260,000.

01:27:52.539 --> 01:28:00.539
Uh, we have 500 employees. They
wouldn't all qualify and some are, are

01:28:01.208 --> 01:28:04.826
no minimum part time. There's some
that just come in and kind of a

01:28:04.859 --> 01:28:11.425
contract basis, you know. Uh, but, uh,
there's, there's got to be over 400

01:28:11.458 --> 01:28:16.857
full time factor or, uh, employees.
And so that we have a formula for

01:28:16.890 --> 01:28:22.226
breaking that money out. It's not
based on your salary. It's, it's based

01:28:22.259 --> 01:28:26.156
on how long you've been there. And,
uh, how many hours you worked that

01:28:26.189 --> 01:28:31.836
year and that sort of thing. But, uh,
the, uh, the highest paid people get

01:28:31.869 --> 01:28:38.336
the same I'm out is the lowest rate in
there. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it works

01:28:38.369 --> 01:28:43.265
, it works. Uh, we have

01:28:43.298 --> 01:28:48.506
tr relationships with the employees.
Uh, they look at us like grandparents

01:28:48.539 --> 01:28:53.777
, you know, and, and not a day I don't
get a hug from somebody. Some

01:28:53.810 --> 01:28:58.015
employee, even the lady that cleans
our house, make sure she comes in and

01:28:58.048 --> 01:29:03.317
gives me a hug before she goes, you
know. Uh, one of them one day said,

01:29:03.350 --> 01:29:06.446
hey, my fiance is out in the parking
lot. I want you to meet him, you know

01:29:06.479 --> 01:29:12.976
, come on out and meet my fiance. Uh,
so the system works pretty well and

01:29:13.009 --> 01:29:18.937
they work at it. You know, they, they
do some decent things when they have

01:29:18.970 --> 01:29:23.857
their own cafeteria in, in the complex
and some things are free. So the

01:29:23.890 --> 01:29:31.147
food soup is always free. Uh, whatever
they have to pay for is low price,

01:29:31.180 --> 01:29:36.897
you know. Uh, it's certainly not a
place for everybody. I have friends

01:29:36.930 --> 01:29:39.756
that don't, still don't understand.
I've been here 10 years and they don't

01:29:39.789 --> 01:29:42.456
know why I'm there,

01:29:42.489 --> 01:29:49.397
but it certainly is a place for me.
Uh, I can't imagine. Do you know it?

01:29:49.430 --> 01:29:56.656
Who's thinking about how I went
through my surgery? Uh Everybody

01:29:56.689 --> 01:30:01.107
contributed, you know, uh went out to
Mayo's, they provided me

01:30:01.140 --> 01:30:07.796
transportation in the first while, uh
went in the health care center for

01:30:07.829 --> 01:30:15.829
five weeks. And man, they nurtured me,
you know, uh uh food. I started out

01:30:16.649 --> 01:30:22.345
with the whole through the nose and
then liquid and then the pureed and

01:30:22.378 --> 01:30:26.326
they even pureed food, like they say,
would you like a ham and cheese

01:30:26.359 --> 01:30:31.897
sandwich today? Sure. They would puree
the half slices of bread. They had

01:30:31.930 --> 01:30:36.476
a mold to put them in and use dye to
make them look like bread, the ham

01:30:36.509 --> 01:30:39.126
and the cheese and the same thing you
get this sandwich, it was pureed

01:30:39.159 --> 01:30:47.159
food. But, uh, but, and uh, and then
from there I went over the, to, to my

01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:51.696
cottage,

01:30:51.729 --> 01:30:57.796
my wife took care of the food thing
from there on, uh, she was a big help.

01:30:57.829 --> 01:31:04.527
She a huge help. Mhm. A bit about
that.

01:31:04.560 --> 01:31:11.336
Yeah, I'll tell you she's half idiot.
And her Indian name is five horse

01:31:11.369 --> 01:31:16.916
Ddddd.

01:31:16.949 --> 01:31:21.756
That's what she did. She nagged me to
eat that food and do this thing, do

01:31:21.789 --> 01:31:27.706
whatever I want. Yeah. And, uh, I
broke an ankle, you know, I think about

01:31:27.739 --> 01:31:31.916
how it would be if I was in my house,
I wouldn't know if it was broken or

01:31:31.949 --> 01:31:35.796
not. I called the A IL, they come down
and look at it and say it probably

01:31:35.829 --> 01:31:39.786
is. But we get you over to the X ray.
All this takes place within an hour

01:31:39.819 --> 01:31:44.425
or so. And I, and say, yeah, it is
broken and make an appointment tomorrow

01:31:44.458 --> 01:31:48.237
and I'm back in the house, you know,
if I was at home doing that, it would

01:31:48.270 --> 01:31:53.376
be two or three days the time I got
the right orthopedic and you know, so

01:31:53.409 --> 01:31:58.425
being the lazy kind of person that I
am, I'm a good fit. Been there 10

01:31:58.458 --> 01:32:00.925
years now.

01:32:00.958 --> 01:32:08.777
What made you decide to move from your
home, your comfortable home?

01:32:08.810 --> 01:32:13.166
And there was somebody that you knew
there. We did. I did know some people.

01:32:13.199 --> 01:32:19.305
Yes. Uh Jack and Ann uh Bob and Anne
Armstrong were friends of ours and a

01:32:19.338 --> 01:32:23.416
fellow named Roscoe Hildebrand
structural engineer. Did you know Roscoe?

01:32:23.449 --> 01:32:29.027
No, he was head of the uh building
inspection department. City of Phoenix.

01:32:29.060 --> 01:32:34.107
Uh So we did know those people, but we
got to where the things we had to

01:32:34.140 --> 01:32:39.916
do around the house were tasks the
yard work. So we finally, we hired

01:32:39.949 --> 01:32:45.586
someone to do the yard work now that
the go up on the roof and, and do

01:32:45.619 --> 01:32:50.446
something up there, you gotta climb
the ladder and uh these things just

01:32:50.479 --> 01:32:55.226
evolved and all of a sudden, Roscoe
said, gee, I don't do any of those

01:32:55.259 --> 01:32:59.196
things. They won't even let us change
a light bulb because they don't want

01:32:59.229 --> 01:33:04.817
you getting up even on a chair or
something. So, uh I don't know, you know

01:33:04.850 --> 01:33:10.647
, again, I think that's one of those
things that wasn't this, that was

01:33:10.680 --> 01:33:14.406
little bit dream. Maybe, maybe there's
some place that does this and it

01:33:14.439 --> 01:33:18.897
was, it was gradual. We were probably
a year and a half in the process. Do

01:33:18.930 --> 01:33:23.746
you have Children? No, we don't. So
all those grandchildren that work over

01:33:23.779 --> 01:33:29.906
there. Yeah. Are, are good friends of
ours. Uh, I have nieces and nephews

01:33:29.939 --> 01:33:37.586
that live here. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, no,
it's, uh, I, I, that's a good

01:33:37.619 --> 01:33:41.616
question. I don't know what the
instrument was when we decided to come

01:33:41.649 --> 01:33:46.826
over here. I don't know when that was.

01:33:46.859 --> 01:33:51.277
No, that's ok. I have a little bit of,
strangely, I have a little throat

01:33:51.310 --> 01:33:55.366
problem. I had surgery. The one thing
that sometimes gives me trouble with

01:33:55.399 --> 01:34:00.546
water and the reason is, you know,
being an engineer, you wonder why the

01:34:00.579 --> 01:34:04.706
hell is water giving. It's, uh, too
light a weight to trigger the mech

01:34:04.739 --> 01:34:11.326
swallowing mechanism. Um, what you do
is I don't do it too much now, but

01:34:11.359 --> 01:34:16.196
for a long time I thickened the water.
You can buy thickener and you put

01:34:16.229 --> 01:34:19.317
it in the water and it doesn't change
the taste, but it increases the

01:34:19.350 --> 01:34:24.567
weight. What it is. It's a pressure
activated, uh, gate and the, the

01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:28.506
weight has to activate it to decide
whether the food is going into the

01:34:28.539 --> 01:34:32.206
lungs or into the stomach. Uh, that's
where you, where you get the bad

01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:36.555
pneumonia when the food goes into the,
into the lungs. So, this little

01:34:36.588 --> 01:34:41.916
gate is there and depending on that
way it trips it or doesn't trip it.

01:34:41.949 --> 01:34:49.586
And, uh, so water, uh, will cause me
to cough. I only told swallowing, you

01:34:49.619 --> 01:34:53.786
know, it's not a matter of choking or
anything, but I'll get a cough that

01:34:53.819 --> 01:34:57.916
goes on for five minutes or something
like that. And water, water is one

01:34:57.949 --> 01:35:01.726
of the things that still does it. I
mean, I had chili for lunch, you know

01:35:01.759 --> 01:35:08.777
, uh, you'd think, but that's heavy.
See, that, that, that triggers the

01:35:08.810 --> 01:35:16.810
system. Well, Mexican food, no
problem. Alcohol. No. And I don't know if

01:35:17.369 --> 01:35:21.817
that's the same. No, alcohol just
burns was burned. I think when they did

01:35:21.850 --> 01:35:27.217
the surgery they maybe took a coating
of some kind off that protected it.

01:35:27.250 --> 01:35:34.425
But I take a sip of Manhattan. You'd
be scraping me off that ceiling.

01:35:34.458 --> 01:35:42.458
But that's a little enough penalty to
pay for being able to do as I do. No.

01:35:43.180 --> 01:35:47.796
 Well, um, are you rolling yet? John,

01:35:47.829 --> 01:35:51.237
uh, the other name there is Lewis
Hill. I don't know if you want to

01:35:51.270 --> 01:35:56.246
elaborate more on Lewis. I think he
was your first mentor here. Yeah,

01:35:56.279 --> 01:36:02.277
Louis uh, came in here to teach or you
go, came in here to teach just

01:36:02.310 --> 01:36:04.555
about the time I came over to the
class because there wasn't any

01:36:04.588 --> 01:36:11.076
engineering prior to 58. That was the
beginning. And so, uh, I think the

01:36:11.109 --> 01:36:15.467
class I took was probably the first
class maybe spring of 58 or something

01:36:15.500 --> 01:36:21.476
like that. Uh, and uh two and I got to
hit it was, we were all people in

01:36:21.509 --> 01:36:25.737
that class who had experience it. We
didn't have an undergraduate coming

01:36:25.770 --> 01:36:29.456
up yet for the graduate course. So
these were all people who worked in

01:36:29.489 --> 01:36:36.805
town uh and myself who was the Salt
River project. And uh so we, we and

01:36:36.838 --> 01:36:42.786
Lewis had practical experience and so
we all linked fairly well. We, we,

01:36:42.819 --> 01:36:49.487
we were together on what we were
doing. Uh And then when I got the offer

01:36:49.520 --> 01:36:54.607
of the job here and I uh Lewis of
course, and I became closer because now

01:36:54.640 --> 01:37:00.555
we were seeing each other every day
and there was, and uh he was, uh he

01:37:00.588 --> 01:37:07.647
did me some favors along the line in
terms of support. Uh It was, he was

01:37:07.680 --> 01:37:10.826
only,

01:37:10.859 --> 01:37:15.836
well, it was what, 14 years after, not
quite, probably 12 years after I

01:37:15.869 --> 01:37:22.246
came uh that he became chairman. And
so we had a period there where we, we

01:37:22.279 --> 01:37:28.906
were just structures, faculty and we
were highly productive that time and

01:37:28.939 --> 01:37:35.206
um he became chairman, we didn't
really replace him and, and we, we eroded

01:37:35.239 --> 01:37:43.239
uh at that time, but no Lewis was a, a
benefactor. Uh

01:37:47.109 --> 01:37:52.286
That's where a lot of people I didn't.
Uh

01:37:52.319 --> 01:38:00.319
nobody does it on their own, you know,
and, and I sure didn't

01:38:01.458 --> 01:38:07.996
for the deans. Now we had Thompson
that was in there for

01:38:08.029 --> 01:38:15.376
20 years, maybe. Yeah. Then you had
Roland Hayden. Yeah. Uh just compare

01:38:15.409 --> 01:38:21.726
those two personalities. Uh You are
trying to get me in trouble.

01:38:21.759 --> 01:38:26.656
Uh I thought Lee Thompson was a
wonder. They have both deceased now, you

01:38:26.689 --> 01:38:33.555
know that, but that doesn't make any
difference on what I would say. Uh Le

01:38:33.588 --> 01:38:38.906
le did, you know, Lee didn't have uh
an engineering degree. Lee Thompson

01:38:38.939 --> 01:38:45.805
did. S phd was in Physics from the
University of Indiana. Uh

01:38:45.838 --> 01:38:50.946
But Lee had this, what I thought at
that time was the right concept which

01:38:50.979 --> 01:38:57.246
was loaded. We were all about the same
age. All, all the faculty uh was to

01:38:57.279 --> 01:39:01.666
load up with people who had experience
and uh and tell the stories in

01:39:01.699 --> 01:39:09.699
class. Um you know, humanize
engineering a little bit when they build GW

01:39:09.909 --> 01:39:14.706
it was built basically on groups of,
on 2nd, 3rd floor of four offices,

01:39:14.739 --> 01:39:19.027
four suites, four suites, four suites.
His rule was no two could be from

01:39:19.060 --> 01:39:24.496
the same department because you had to
face with these people and you had

01:39:24.529 --> 01:39:28.635
to know them and you had to know
things that they do and I thought that

01:39:28.668 --> 01:39:36.187
was wonderful. Uh I got to know
Charlie Hoyt. Uh you know, he was

01:39:36.220 --> 01:39:39.385
industrial engineering so he couldn't
be down in the industrial

01:39:39.418 --> 01:39:47.418
engineering area. Uh So in the Lee was
a,

01:39:47.750 --> 01:39:51.456
I don't know, he, he wasn't
particularly a warm person but he was, uh he

01:39:51.489 --> 01:39:57.126
listened, uh and he had uh had some
help. He had George Beakley listening

01:39:57.159 --> 01:40:02.765
for him at the time. Uh

01:40:02.798 --> 01:40:09.006
If you needed to see Lee Thompson,
you, you call the office and, and uh

01:40:09.039 --> 01:40:14.666
Joan Minal uh would uh say, well, are
you in your office? Yeah. Well, I'll

01:40:14.699 --> 01:40:18.437
give you a call in 10 minutes when
he's free. You go down, that was fine,

01:40:18.470 --> 01:40:26.470
you know. Uh And, uh, um he was, he,
he did a really good job and I think

01:40:27.890 --> 01:40:33.726
any other system might not have worked
as well. At that time

01:40:33.759 --> 01:40:38.487
when, when Thompson retired,

01:40:38.520 --> 01:40:44.076
there was a, a change in the way
funding was prior to that, there was a

01:40:44.109 --> 01:40:49.456
lot more federal and state funding for
research. NSF was much bigger. N

01:40:49.489 --> 01:40:56.116
DEA was big. The Navy had huge
research funding. Uh And so most of our

01:40:56.149 --> 01:41:02.446
funding, most of our research was
funded in that way. This is prior to

01:41:02.479 --> 01:41:09.277
Hayden. Yes, prior to Hayden. And so
some few years before Hayden, it

01:41:09.310 --> 01:41:15.696
became evident that the funding was
drying up, not entirely but with a

01:41:15.729 --> 01:41:22.726
different ball game. Uh First of all,
they refused to fund equipment, you

01:41:22.759 --> 01:41:26.546
had to find some funding for the
equipment. Well, the older schools,

01:41:26.579 --> 01:41:28.595
Purdue,

01:41:28.628 --> 01:41:32.586
they already had the equipment that
made it tough to get the, the funding

01:41:32.619 --> 01:41:37.456
because you were putting in some money
for equipment and they already had

01:41:37.489 --> 01:41:41.246
the equipment, you know. Uh so it
changed the whole funding thing and

01:41:41.279 --> 01:41:47.406
that's why I said something about if
that's in a different situation. So

01:41:47.439 --> 01:41:53.357
about that time, someone up above
decided we needed to, to lean much more

01:41:53.390 --> 01:41:59.626
toward research and, and private
funding. Research, civil engineering has

01:41:59.659 --> 01:42:04.357
virtually no private funding research.
The highway department is about the

01:42:04.390 --> 01:42:10.987
only place. Construction companies do
not fund the research A ISC and A I

01:42:11.020 --> 01:42:14.866
si don't have much money. They're,
they're, they're dependent upon

01:42:14.899 --> 01:42:19.706
contractors to give money. So if you
can get $10,000 out of, you're really

01:42:19.739 --> 01:42:25.536
doing something. Uh I had a big
contract with the ISIF supported two

01:42:25.569 --> 01:42:30.496
faculty and two graduate students for
four years on a si research but that

01:42:30.529 --> 01:42:35.777
it was early uh that dried up. So they
were looking for somebody who would

01:42:35.810 --> 01:42:42.756
do that. And uh Roland appeared to be
that man.

01:42:42.789 --> 01:42:48.836
The funding he was looking for was
highly electro engineering funding. Uh

01:42:48.869 --> 01:42:55.635
some mechanical. But we got to where
we didn't uh when I retired, they

01:42:55.668 --> 01:42:59.925
didn't replace me with the structures
person. When John and Toomer died,

01:42:59.958 --> 01:43:04.696
they didn't replace him with a because
you didn't draw research money.

01:43:04.729 --> 01:43:10.326
Like uh there was still some research
money out there but you had to get

01:43:10.359 --> 01:43:14.576
some support from university to get it
and matching fund or that sort of

01:43:14.609 --> 01:43:21.226
thing. Uh And so this is leading in
the later on, but that's what happened

01:43:21.259 --> 01:43:27.020
to structures. And technically right
now they have one man in structures.

01:43:27.399 --> 01:43:29.399
Huh? That's a pastor for Fetus.

01:43:32.418 --> 01:43:37.897
Nice neat guy. Features concrete and L
A. Very bright. Very. He's, he's

01:43:37.930 --> 01:43:45.930
got a huge amount of, of uh research
unfunded research that he does. Uh is

01:43:46.060 --> 01:43:51.737
is there much graduate program there
or is it, does he teach undergrad?

01:43:51.770 --> 01:43:56.626
He teaches uh I think like I didn't
like do it, did he always teaches one

01:43:56.659 --> 01:44:02.385
undergrad? I understand. They no
longer have the common core.

01:44:02.418 --> 01:44:08.897
OK. So all the engineers wouldn't have
to take a statics course.

01:44:08.930 --> 01:44:16.206
No, that's right. Uh That's a tough
question. The, the core didn't

01:44:16.239 --> 01:44:23.196
disappear here. It was worked on. I
mean, electro engineering. So we don't

01:44:23.229 --> 01:44:30.437
really need statics. We, we don't use
statics and we talked to him at the

01:44:30.470 --> 01:44:34.496
court time and said, yes, you do. You
need it, you need, you need to work

01:44:34.529 --> 01:44:39.015
in the field with electronics people
and all you at least need some but,

01:44:39.048 --> 01:44:44.317
but the electric will say no, no, we
can better use that course for

01:44:44.350 --> 01:44:48.036
something else. So it wasn't a matter
of the whole fact, they're not

01:44:48.069 --> 01:44:52.116
really out of the core right now. They
have, they have some combined

01:44:52.149 --> 01:44:58.416
courses. Um I was talking to pastor, I
see him often, the only, only

01:44:58.449 --> 01:45:04.956
remnant of, of my time there that I
see often. Uh And he teaches a

01:45:04.989 --> 01:45:10.536
numerical methods course that's used
by mechanical and civil. So there's

01:45:10.569 --> 01:45:16.836
still some core that's not totally
independent, but it just, it kind of

01:45:16.869 --> 01:45:24.869
eroded instead of e exploded, you know
it. Uh And I think that that uh

01:45:25.759 --> 01:45:31.897
Hayden was not really a supporter of
the core. I think that the dean, dean

01:45:31.930 --> 01:45:37.765
doesn't support it and other things
are making it tough. Mm It's hard to

01:45:37.798 --> 01:45:43.805
do.

01:45:43.838 --> 01:45:47.876
How about following deans like Chang
and Crouch? I didn't know them. I, I

01:45:47.909 --> 01:45:54.015
knew Peter Crouch but he wasn't a dean
when I knew him. Uh, Chang wasn't

01:45:54.048 --> 01:45:59.976
here very long, Jane. No. Uh,

01:46:00.009 --> 01:46:05.925
the guy from Texas, my, my last major
job was chairman of the search

01:46:05.958 --> 01:46:13.055
committee for a replacement for, uh
Tortilla. Really? Well, tell me, what

01:46:13.088 --> 01:46:21.088
was that gonna take it? And, uh,
what's the guy's name

01:46:22.470 --> 01:46:27.717
anyway? I was, I was, maybe it's
better. I don't have his name. I was

01:46:27.750 --> 01:46:31.345
chair of the, of that committee

01:46:31.378 --> 01:46:37.317
and somehow George Beachley got the
impression that Purdue wanted him for

01:46:37.350 --> 01:46:41.055
chairman really, really bad.

01:46:41.088 --> 01:46:43.845
Of course, I had connections back at
Purdue. The department chairman,

01:46:43.878 --> 01:46:47.576
civil was a good friend of mine back
there.

01:46:47.609 --> 01:46:50.946
He said who,

01:46:50.979 --> 01:46:55.976
but he had convinced George and so
the, the committee recommendation was

01:46:56.009 --> 01:47:02.246
not to hire him. George convinced role
in the Irish.

01:47:02.279 --> 01:47:05.817
Uh

01:47:05.850 --> 01:47:10.265
So that was the politics kind of went
that way. It's, uh, you know, I,

01:47:10.298 --> 01:47:13.857
like I said, I don't want to be
bitter. I'm not, it's a different

01:47:13.890 --> 01:47:20.506
situation, a different world and, and,
and more power to them to do what

01:47:20.539 --> 01:47:26.817
they're doing. George Beakley,

01:47:26.850 --> 01:47:33.496
unusual man. Uh I was one of the ones
that got along with them. Just great.

01:47:33.529 --> 01:47:39.046
Uh, George did me a lot of favors in
his position there. Uh, a lot of

01:47:39.079 --> 01:47:46.376
warnings at times, but what I would do
two, uh

01:47:46.409 --> 01:47:50.187
George was uh an opportunist.

01:47:50.220 --> 01:47:53.765
He waited till he saw which way the
wind was blowing and then he fled the

01:47:53.798 --> 01:48:00.666
tail. Uh It's not all bad for an
associate chairman, you know, somebody,

01:48:00.699 --> 01:48:04.897
you gonna do the dirty work, who's
dean, the associate dean? Somebody's

01:48:04.930 --> 01:48:10.967
got to do the dirty work. And, uh,

01:48:11.000 --> 01:48:18.567
I got into it with Raymond one with,
uh Payton one time severely. And, uh

01:48:18.600 --> 01:48:21.937
, I stopped out of the office, went
upstairs and I got a phone call from

01:48:21.970 --> 01:48:26.006
George. He said, you better get down
here and apologize for bull and he's

01:48:26.039 --> 01:48:31.116
trying to figure out how to fire you.
But I said, oh, no, I don't know

01:48:31.149 --> 01:48:37.397
what I can do, you know. And, uh, that
was kind of the end of it. So ro

01:48:37.430 --> 01:48:40.217
and I never hit it off.

01:48:40.250 --> 01:48:46.607
Well, we'd, we'd meet each other in
the hall and I'd say hello at times

01:48:46.640 --> 01:48:52.095
and I think I would have been all
right with all of that except my last,

01:48:52.128 --> 01:48:56.916
with, he called me down to the office
and he said, I want to tell you how

01:48:56.949 --> 01:49:01.595
much I enjoyed working with you

01:49:01.628 --> 01:49:08.376
and he was leaving. I was, I was
retiring.

01:49:08.409 --> 01:49:16.409
Oh, good. I, so ple please edit that
if you think that it's not something

01:49:17.039 --> 01:49:19.946
that should be said, but it's the
price that you're having me here is I

01:49:19.979 --> 01:49:24.336
had at least because the only person
there that I ever really had any

01:49:24.369 --> 01:49:30.956
trouble with. No, uh, Charlie Uland
became one of my best friends. In fact

01:49:30.989 --> 01:49:36.527
, I did the eulogy for Charlie when he
died. Uh,

01:49:36.560 --> 01:49:40.496
and the eulogy for, for Charlie Hoyt,
what do you think, tell us a little

01:49:40.529 --> 01:49:46.357
about Hoyt, I've heard that name. A
Cherub. That's what he looked like. Do

01:49:46.390 --> 01:49:54.390
you know him short? Uh Good smile, uh
Very bright. Uh Renaissance man,

01:49:57.208 --> 01:50:01.397
Charlie had more capability and more
things. He, you, he could play four

01:50:01.430 --> 01:50:05.476
bars of a classic music piece and he
would tell you who recorded it, what

01:50:05.509 --> 01:50:12.506
it was and what it was recorded. Uh He
raised orchids here in Arizona. He

01:50:12.539 --> 01:50:17.826
had a building built in the backyard
and the air cooled all supper. And he

01:50:17.859 --> 01:50:22.416
built, he, he, he grew orchids. He was
one of the first people to ever

01:50:22.449 --> 01:50:28.376
come up with uh color. He, he had a
chemical, well, start back for his

01:50:28.409 --> 01:50:32.777
father had a machine shop in
Indianapolis. That was the start. And so

01:50:32.810 --> 01:50:36.647
Charlie went to Purdue and got a
degree in mechanical engineering, I think

01:50:36.680 --> 01:50:44.680
, uh moved the company to Mishawaka or
Elkhart, Elkhart. Uh

01:50:45.409 --> 01:50:50.555
and got, they had the union started to
get to him there, bother him.

01:50:50.588 --> 01:50:54.336
Finally, he gave the company to the
union,

01:50:54.369 --> 01:50:58.506
the jurors. Well, they were cheating
each other all the time. The guys,

01:50:58.539 --> 01:51:01.546
they finally came back and said,
Charlie, will you manage it for us? You

01:51:01.579 --> 01:51:03.696
know.

01:51:03.729 --> 01:51:11.729
Um, he uh was great in photography. He
had, uh, he makes all his own

01:51:13.048 --> 01:51:17.446
chemicals. He, he didn't believe in
buying fix or, or anything you made

01:51:17.479 --> 01:51:23.777
your own. He had uh a, a pressurized
room in the basement so he could

01:51:23.810 --> 01:51:31.810
develop a lot of dust getting on
anything. A great baseball fan. I see you

01:51:31.939 --> 01:51:37.135
had to sit next to me at, at Packard.
And, uh, when I did the eulogy, uh,

01:51:37.168 --> 01:51:42.717
I, it was an open casket. I had an, a
su baseball cap that I got from Bob

01:51:42.750 --> 01:51:47.345
Winkles, uh, and put it on them in the
casket because he never missed a

01:51:47.378 --> 01:51:53.027
gate. Uh, but he did all those things
and he used to have that table in

01:51:53.060 --> 01:51:57.256
the union. Did you aware that there
was a table called Charlie's Table up

01:51:57.289 --> 01:52:04.916
in the faculty dining area in that
area? And it was about 20 ft long and

01:52:04.949 --> 01:52:09.305
people would leave early to get there
so they could be at Charlie's table.

01:52:09.338 --> 01:52:15.126
His gift was for and I knew him a long
time and, and well, he never told

01:52:15.159 --> 01:52:19.706
the same story twice. Not ever.

01:52:19.739 --> 01:52:24.546
Uh That's tough how he does that, I
don't know. I, you know, I, I have

01:52:24.579 --> 01:52:29.635
about a half an hour span of making
sure that I told him at some other

01:52:29.668 --> 01:52:32.796
time. Uh

01:52:32.829 --> 01:52:38.515
Really, really nice man, called his
wife the Dutchman. I forget what her

01:52:38.548 --> 01:52:46.548
name was, but all he ever called her
was the Dutchman. Uh He, uh but he

01:52:46.798 --> 01:52:50.326
decided to die. He was something like
doom in that respect. He had

01:52:50.359 --> 01:52:54.027
pancreatitis cancer.

01:52:54.060 --> 01:53:02.060
Uh back to uh he said, well, he just
stopped eating. He said it's time we

01:53:02.470 --> 01:53:07.416
stopped eating and that was it. Uh
Let's go back to baseball. I used to

01:53:07.449 --> 01:53:15.449
see you over there with Beakley on the
first base side of 19.

01:53:15.489 --> 01:53:20.786
Yeah, baseball is a big thing. It, it
still is for me. I, I been to the

01:53:20.819 --> 01:53:25.107
new stadium. You've been to the new
stadium? Well, you mean the Met? Well

01:53:25.140 --> 01:53:29.027
, I've been there years and years
when, when they played there, the funny

01:53:29.060 --> 01:53:33.885
story about that playing over there
was, uh, we're playing, I think we're

01:53:33.918 --> 01:53:37.345
playing the U A but I'm not sure the
major the story, a light plane hit

01:53:37.378 --> 01:53:41.967
the telephone, the electric wires uh
in the river bottom there landed. All

01:53:42.000 --> 01:53:46.567
right. But put out the lights in the
stadium in the baseball stadium, it

01:53:46.600 --> 01:53:50.796
was pitch black since it was borrowed.
We didn't have the keys to any

01:53:50.829 --> 01:53:54.866
place in there. Just go and play, you
know, and while the lights were out

01:53:54.899 --> 01:53:59.027
, somebody stole the second vase came
out and took it off in the field.

01:53:59.060 --> 01:54:06.286
Did it. The, the lights came back on
and it was gone and we couldn't get

01:54:06.319 --> 01:54:10.036
in the, in the reserve area to get
another one. So the announcer said,

01:54:10.069 --> 01:54:13.175
would you please, we'll turn the
lights out. Would you please put it back

01:54:13.208 --> 01:54:17.107
? They turned the lights out and sure
enough who had to throw it out in

01:54:17.140 --> 01:54:19.706
the

01:54:19.739 --> 01:54:26.256
uh anyway, it was ba baseball is
unique in that respect. Funny things

01:54:26.289 --> 01:54:30.147
happen in almost every game in
baseball. Funny things don't happen in

01:54:30.180 --> 01:54:35.246
football. Very rarely. Do they happen
in basketball? But I guarantee you

01:54:35.279 --> 01:54:40.076
in every baseball game, there's
something funny, I saw a guy threw his

01:54:40.109 --> 01:54:43.406
glove with the ball the first base,
you know, he couldn't get it out of

01:54:43.439 --> 01:54:47.567
his mid, so he just threw the whole
thing over there. Uh, what I see just

01:54:47.600 --> 01:54:50.666
yesterday. Something,

01:54:50.699 --> 01:54:54.647
there, there, there was a funny one
in, uh, in the down backs game was a

01:54:54.680 --> 01:54:59.897
play at first base. Now, did you go up
to Omaha for any of the? I never

01:54:59.930 --> 01:55:05.857
did that. I should have and I would
have really enjoyed it. But Egypt, uh

01:55:05.890 --> 01:55:10.717
, I know people that go every year and
a half for 30 years. We've got a

01:55:10.750 --> 01:55:14.967
guy over here over at Tren Village. He
has at this point in 30 years. But

01:55:15.000 --> 01:55:23.000
, uh, no, but I'm, I'm a baseball fan.
Oh, I, they, they play 100 and 60

01:55:24.060 --> 01:55:30.027
games, the Diamondbacks and I probably
see part or all of 100 and 20 of

01:55:30.060 --> 01:55:33.746
them and told us

01:55:33.779 --> 01:55:39.817
I do, I do like baseball. I don't know
where that was going. But, uh, talk

01:55:39.850 --> 01:55:43.067
about some of your interaction with
students. You were telling me you took

01:55:43.100 --> 01:55:48.996
field trips and one of them was to
Glen Canyon Dam before it was built. Oh

01:55:49.029 --> 01:55:54.036
, she wouldn't, wouldn't let me do
half the things I did when I had, when

01:55:54.069 --> 01:55:57.496
they were building Glen Canyon Dam,

01:55:57.529 --> 01:56:03.286
they had a foot bridge, suspension
bridge across the canyon downstream. So

01:56:03.319 --> 01:56:07.175
the people could get across because of
the residents on one side. I took

01:56:07.208 --> 01:56:11.576
the students up there and we walked
out on that suspension bridge. Uh,

01:56:11.609 --> 01:56:16.336
never could do it today. Wouldn't
allow us to do it. They build a 30 story

01:56:16.369 --> 01:56:19.866
building downtown. I, I'd take the
shooting down so they could see what

01:56:19.899 --> 01:56:23.796
it's like. And there'd be no banister
on the outside. It would be a rope,

01:56:23.829 --> 01:56:28.826
outlining the outside. Um, climb the
stairs. We had to climb ladders to

01:56:28.859 --> 01:56:35.737
get up to the floor. Man. You couldn't
do it today. You couldn't do it. Uh

01:56:35.770 --> 01:56:41.916
That would be another one of my
thanks. But uh students,

01:56:41.949 --> 01:56:47.425
they enjoyed the stories. They really
did and I think they were worthwhile.

01:56:47.458 --> 01:56:50.956
There were people that said, well, you
should be doing more technical

01:56:50.989 --> 01:56:55.467
stuff than just telling the whole war
story. I don't think so. I, I think

01:56:55.500 --> 01:57:01.696
that was part of, of uh of their
believing me for one thing. No. And maybe

01:57:01.729 --> 01:57:06.845
they didn't believe me, but at least
they, they acted like they did. But

01:57:06.878 --> 01:57:14.015
uh uh I had a lot of great students,
really great students. Uh

01:57:14.048 --> 01:57:19.687
I'll tell you another little tumor
story tuba and me, I guess, but we had

01:57:19.720 --> 01:57:27.720
a, a female, a lady student getting
your phd in structures and she had

01:57:28.569 --> 01:57:32.156
been assigned to one of the other
structures, faculty. I won't use the

01:57:32.189 --> 01:57:37.925
name because you start me on that.
We're here till tomorrow. Uh He would

01:57:37.958 --> 01:57:42.446
she would, he, he would say, ok. Now,
here's, we're defining this problem.

01:57:42.479 --> 01:57:46.135
She'd solve that problem. And he'd
say, ok, here's another problem.

01:57:46.168 --> 01:57:49.095
Here's another problem. And then he
was publishing each one of these

01:57:49.128 --> 01:57:54.015
without her name, she'd solve it. And
she came to me, she was married, she

01:57:54.048 --> 01:57:59.006
was a registered engineer. She, she
had worked in industry. Her husband

01:57:59.039 --> 01:58:06.296
was a narc here in Phoenix. And uh she
did beautiful work, just gorgeous,

01:58:06.329 --> 01:58:10.175
enjoying work. She came to me and she
was, you know, just in tears. And

01:58:10.208 --> 01:58:13.897
she said, I've got to leave the
program because I, I can't stand it any

01:58:13.930 --> 01:58:18.916
longer. I've got to get to work and
help support the family. And, and I

01:58:18.949 --> 01:58:23.126
said, well, why don't you get a
different advisor? And she said, he told

01:58:23.159 --> 01:58:28.286
me if, if, if I left him, he would
blackball me and every other faculty

01:58:28.319 --> 01:58:34.076
member here. And I said, well, we'll
see. So I went down to the chair when

01:58:34.109 --> 01:58:37.876
I told him the story and I said she
needs to be changed. And he said, well

01:58:37.909 --> 01:58:41.006
, who take her? I said two will take
her. I had a couple already right

01:58:41.039 --> 01:58:45.385
then. So she went to t got her phd,
she's Dean of Engineering over in

01:58:45.418 --> 01:58:48.687
California. Now,

01:58:48.720 --> 01:58:56.720
Debbie Larson, the name, her husband
was a narc. What is that uh narcotic

01:58:57.989 --> 01:59:03.286
uh policeman? He'd go undercover all
the time and you, you go to see, we,

01:59:03.319 --> 01:59:06.817
we get together after she got it. I
made a friend with her one time. He'd

01:59:06.850 --> 01:59:11.345
come in and have tattoos and be grimy
next time it was all dressed, you

01:59:11.378 --> 01:59:16.487
know. And, uh, she went up to, from
here she, we couldn't hire her, they

01:59:16.520 --> 01:59:20.805
wouldn't hire here and she had, it's
perfect, you know, students gave her

01:59:20.838 --> 01:59:27.226
the highest report. Right. Uh, she
got, they offer a job up at NAU. She

01:59:27.259 --> 01:59:33.616
went up there became department of
Civil Engineering chairman. And, uh,

01:59:33.649 --> 01:59:37.796
they offered her husband a job on the
n because he was in Phoenix. He said

01:59:37.829 --> 01:59:43.006
no, they weren't excited enough.

01:59:43.039 --> 01:59:47.067
So I'm interested where he is now.
She's in California. I've got to send

01:59:47.100 --> 01:59:54.876
her an email. But, uh, wonderful girl.
So, after you retired, uh, Harry,

01:59:54.909 --> 01:59:59.116
uh, hobbies, travel, uh, committees at
Friendship Village. What are you

01:59:59.149 --> 02:00:07.149
doing? Well, travel was a big thing.
So, when, and we, uh, we did what we

02:00:07.699 --> 02:00:11.086
call camping, which was a motor home,
you know, we never slept on the

02:00:11.119 --> 02:00:16.706
ground. But, uh, we, we, we traveled
that way and, and really enjoyed it,

02:00:16.739 --> 02:00:24.739
traveled a lot, two or three months
trips. And, uh, and I always liked

02:00:25.128 --> 02:00:29.885
history. History has always been, I, I
figured if I had been an engineer,

02:00:29.918 --> 02:00:33.506
I'd probably been a historian, maybe I
wouldn't have been success at it,

02:00:33.539 --> 02:00:37.527
but I would have enjoyed it. So I
read, I took all the courses over at

02:00:37.560 --> 02:00:41.496
Scottsdale Community College in
History and they had a fantastic history

02:00:41.529 --> 02:00:46.126
teacher over there. Um, I took them
all for credit because I would never

02:00:46.159 --> 02:00:49.817
let a student audit. Of course,
because if they audit, they didn't pay

02:00:49.850 --> 02:00:54.515
attention, you know, they had to work
at it. So I, uh, rule was good for

02:00:54.548 --> 02:01:00.095
them. It was good for me. So I took
the classes over there and, uh, read a

02:01:00.128 --> 02:01:05.467
lot of history, but I've read
everything I still do. I, I'll, I'll read a

02:01:05.500 --> 02:01:12.976
biography and I'll read a murder
mystery and, uh I enjoy them all. So, uh

02:01:13.009 --> 02:01:20.376
, and those two things occupied a lot
of our time and photography, it's

02:01:20.409 --> 02:01:26.506
always been a hobby back in film days.
I had darkroom, the color printing

02:01:26.539 --> 02:01:34.539
, color and uh black and only. And
then when digital came along that I

02:01:35.000 --> 02:01:41.206
struggled with that for a while. But,
uh it always made me mad, you know,

02:01:41.239 --> 02:01:45.246
when I was on film, I wanted to do
some solarization. It was a three hour

02:01:45.279 --> 02:01:50.696
job I get here and I get the software
in its 10 seconds and that's not as

02:01:50.729 --> 02:01:56.527
good as I think. I'm gonna tell you.
Uh I'm still, I still have my old

02:01:56.560 --> 02:02:01.345
film cameras and if I could use the
one camera that I have there, I would

02:02:01.378 --> 02:02:05.706
drop the digital immediately. But, and
just too much of a struggle to use

02:02:05.739 --> 02:02:12.376
film. Now, you can get it done. T
camera repair sells film and, and

02:02:12.409 --> 02:02:17.956
develops it, but it's still, you know,
so, but anyway, So that's been a

02:02:17.989 --> 02:02:25.989
big hobby of mine and, uh, a mixture
of artist and photographer. I took

02:02:27.039 --> 02:02:32.107
art at the Chicago Art Institute when
I lived in Chicago and did some art.

02:02:32.140 --> 02:02:36.496
But I was never, never thought I was
good. I, I never was satisfied. I

02:02:36.529 --> 02:02:41.135
did part of it. Look good. I didn't
like the rest of it. So my approach in

02:02:41.168 --> 02:02:47.265
photography is, uh, I'm really trying
to create art when I do it. Uh It's

02:02:47.298 --> 02:02:52.817
different from trying to get the most
resolution possible that that's not

02:02:52.850 --> 02:02:57.277
of interest to me. Uh My interest is
if you look at it and say, hey,

02:02:57.310 --> 02:03:02.635
that's neat. That's all, that's all I
care about. So I spend a fair amount

02:03:02.668 --> 02:03:08.626
of time with that in spells.

02:03:08.659 --> 02:03:15.456
I have exhibited a little bit but
very, very minor.

02:03:15.489 --> 02:03:19.777
So, what's your committee work over at
Friendship Village?

02:03:19.810 --> 02:03:24.996
Well, the biggest one is the
appreciation fund for the employees. I don't

02:03:25.029 --> 02:03:29.446
know if y'all are aware of that. We
don't tip over there and no tip in a

02:03:29.479 --> 02:03:36.586
lot. They take a tip, their flares. Uh
So what, what they do instead to

02:03:36.619 --> 02:03:40.916
make it attractive to them plays.
They, they do treat them well. Uh They

02:03:40.949 --> 02:03:43.857
have a big Christmas party and it's
not there. It's at the Hilton

02:03:43.890 --> 02:03:48.675
someplace with a, with a 16 piece
orchestra and you know, the whole bit,

02:03:48.708 --> 02:03:55.166
but also we, we collect money on a
voluntary basis from the residents and

02:03:55.199 --> 02:04:00.277
it's, it's about a month long process
where we do make them aware of the

02:04:00.310 --> 02:04:08.310
fact that what they're getting. Um,
last year we raised $260,000.

02:04:08.779 --> 02:04:16.779
Uh, we have 500 employees. They
wouldn't all qualify if some are, are

02:04:17.458 --> 02:04:21.076
no minimum part time. There's some
that just come in and kind of a

02:04:21.109 --> 02:04:27.666
contract basis, you know. Uh, but, uh,
there's, there's got to be over 400

02:04:27.699 --> 02:04:33.095
full time fact or, uh, employees and
so that we have a formula for

02:04:33.128 --> 02:04:38.726
breaking that money up. It's not based
on your salary. It's, it's based on

02:04:38.759 --> 02:04:42.786
how long you've been there. And, uh,
how many hours you worked that year

02:04:42.819 --> 02:04:48.187
and that sort of thing. But, uh, the,
uh, the highest paid people get the

02:04:48.220 --> 02:04:55.286
same come out is the lowest rate in
there. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it works,

02:04:55.319 --> 02:04:59.506
it works. Uh, we have

02:04:59.539 --> 02:05:04.756
tr relationships with the employees.
Uh, they look at us like grandparents

02:05:04.789 --> 02:05:10.027
, you know, and not a day. I don't get
a hug from somebody, some employee

02:05:10.060 --> 02:05:14.546
, even the lady that cleans our house,
make sure she comes in and gives me

02:05:14.579 --> 02:05:20.326
a hug before she goes. You know, uh,
one of them one day said, hey, my

02:05:20.359 --> 02:05:23.015
fiance is out in the parking lot. I
want you to meet him, you know, come

02:05:23.048 --> 02:05:29.317
on out and meet my fiance. Uh, so the
system works pretty well and they

02:05:29.350 --> 02:05:35.187
work at it, you know, they, they do
some decent things. Well, they have

02:05:35.220 --> 02:05:40.095
their own cafeteria in, in the complex
and some things are free. So the

02:05:40.128 --> 02:05:47.376
food soup is always free, uh, whatever
they have to pay for is low price.

02:05:47.409 --> 02:05:53.126
You know. Uh, it's certainly not a
place for everybody. I have friends

02:05:53.159 --> 02:05:56.036
that don't, still don't understand.
I've been here 10 years and they don't

02:05:56.069 --> 02:05:58.696
know why I'm there,

02:05:58.729 --> 02:06:05.635
but it certainly is a place for me.
Uh, I can't imagine, you know, it,

02:06:05.668 --> 02:06:12.897
who's thinking about how I went
through my surgery. Uh Everybody

02:06:12.930 --> 02:06:18.467
contributed, you know, uh after
Mayo's, they provided me transportation in

02:06:18.500 --> 02:06:26.226
the first while, uh went in the health
care center for five weeks. And man

02:06:26.259 --> 02:06:33.366
, they nurtured me, you know, uh, uh,
food. I started out with the whole

02:06:33.399 --> 02:06:39.175
through the nose and then liquid and
then the puree and they even went

02:06:39.208 --> 02:06:43.055
pureed food, like they say, would you
like a ham and cheese sandwich today

02:06:43.088 --> 02:06:48.876
? Sure. They would puree the half
slices of bread. They had a mold to put

02:06:48.909 --> 02:06:53.296
them in and use dye to make them look
like bread, the ham and the cheese

02:06:53.329 --> 02:06:57.937
and the same thing you get this
sandwich. It was pureed food. But, uh, but

02:06:57.970 --> 02:07:05.970
, and uh, and then from there I went
over to, to, to my cottage,

02:07:07.958 --> 02:07:14.036
my wife took care of the food thing
from there on uh, she was a big help.

02:07:14.069 --> 02:07:20.777
She a huge help. Mhm. A bit about
that.

02:07:20.810 --> 02:07:27.576
Yeah, I'll tell you she's half Indian
and her Indian name is five horse,

02:07:27.609 --> 02:07:31.246
Ddddd.

02:07:31.279 --> 02:07:37.385
Ok. That's what she did. She nagged me
to eat that food and do this thing

02:07:37.418 --> 02:07:43.836
, do whatever I want. Yeah. And, uh, I
broke an ankle. You know, I think

02:07:43.869 --> 02:07:47.796
about how it would be if I was in my
house, I wouldn't know if it was

02:07:47.829 --> 02:07:51.317
broken or not. I called the A IL. They
come down and look at it and say it

02:07:51.350 --> 02:07:55.515
probably is, but we get you over to
the X ray. All this takes place within

02:07:55.548 --> 02:07:59.737
an hour or so. And I say, yeah, it is
broken and make an appointment

02:07:59.770 --> 02:08:04.046
tomorrow and I'm back in the house.
You know, if I was at home doing that

02:08:04.079 --> 02:08:08.397
, it would be two or three days the
time I got the right orthopedic and

02:08:08.430 --> 02:08:14.305
you know, so being the lazy kind of
person that I am, I'm a good fit. Been

02:08:14.338 --> 02:08:17.166
there 10 years now.

02:08:17.199 --> 02:08:25.036
What made you decide to move from your
home, your comfortable home?

02:08:25.069 --> 02:08:29.406
And there was somebody that you knew
there. We did. I did know some people.

02:08:29.439 --> 02:08:35.536
Yes. Uh Jack and Ann uh Bob and Anne
Armstrong were friends of ours and a

02:08:35.569 --> 02:08:39.687
fellow named Roscoe Hildebrand,
structural engineer. Did you know Roscoe?

02:08:39.720 --> 02:08:45.277
No, he was head of the uh building
inspection department, City of Phoenix.

02:08:45.310 --> 02:08:50.366
Uh So we did know those people, but we
got to where the things we had to

02:08:50.399 --> 02:08:56.156
do around the house were tasks the
yard work. So we finally we hired

02:08:56.189 --> 02:09:01.826
someone to do the yard work now that
the go up on the roof and, and do

02:09:01.859 --> 02:09:06.687
something up there, you got to climb
the ladder and, uh, these things just

02:09:06.720 --> 02:09:11.467
evolved. And all of a sudden, Roscoe
said, gee, I don't do any of those

02:09:11.500 --> 02:09:15.437
things. They won't even let us change
a light bulb because they don't want

02:09:15.470 --> 02:09:21.055
you getting up even on a chair or
something. So, uh, I don't know. You

02:09:21.088 --> 02:09:26.885
know, again, I think that's one of
those things that wasn't this, that was

02:09:26.918 --> 02:09:30.546
little bit dream. Maybe they, maybe
there's some place that does this and

02:09:30.579 --> 02:09:35.036
it was, it was gradual. We were
probably a year and a half in the process.

02:09:35.069 --> 02:09:39.796
Do you have Children? No, we don't.
So, all those grandchildren that work

02:09:39.829 --> 02:09:45.726
over there? Yeah. Are, are good
friends of ours. Uh, I have nieces and

02:09:45.759 --> 02:09:53.717
nephews that live here. Yeah. Uh, but,
uh, no, it's, uh, I, I, that's a

02:09:53.750 --> 02:09:57.666
good question. I don't know what the
instrument was that we decided to

02:09:57.699 --> 02:10:03.055
come over here. I don't know when that
was. Do you have any words of

02:10:03.088 --> 02:10:09.086
wisdom for your audience here? Any
last comments? Don't pay much attention

02:10:09.119 --> 02:10:15.675
to what I said. Mhm. No. You know, I
think one thing that I think you had

02:10:15.708 --> 02:10:19.726
in there someplace but we didn't talk
about that. I think it is important

02:10:19.759 --> 02:10:26.305
and that is interfacing with the
students as they graduate. What are they

02:10:26.338 --> 02:10:31.265
going to do? And you know, an awful
lot of them come to you and say, what

02:10:31.298 --> 02:10:35.756
, what should I do? You know, I got
this offer and this offer, what, which

02:10:35.789 --> 02:10:41.345
one should I take? And, uh, I think
it's important that you seriously look

02:10:41.378 --> 02:10:46.166
at those things. Generally speaking,
it was, which one do you think can

02:10:46.199 --> 02:10:51.906
help most? Fine, because you don't
wanna work when you're not having fun.

02:10:51.939 --> 02:10:57.777
And so I would say I came in and said,
uh, I've got, uh, it offered from

02:10:57.810 --> 02:10:59.976
Caterpillar

02:11:00.009 --> 02:11:03.967
Tractor. It's not doing really what I
took my degree in. But I like the

02:11:04.000 --> 02:11:09.196
guy. I said, take the job. You're only
22 years old, you don't have to say.

02:11:09.229 --> 02:11:14.107
And he stayed there forever. I found
out. Yeah. But, uh, do something

02:11:14.140 --> 02:11:21.286
that you like to do. I had, I had a
graduate student. He and, and, uh,

02:11:21.319 --> 02:11:24.217
Miguel, I was talking about when we
were there at the same time. They were

02:11:24.250 --> 02:11:32.250
the two best phd students we ever had.
Uh, he came to see me and they

02:11:32.399 --> 02:11:38.845
wouldn't hire him again. And he was,
he had taught two years for us, had

02:11:38.878 --> 02:11:42.135
the highest student ratings of anybody
in our higher than mine in the

02:11:42.168 --> 02:11:48.726
department. Uh, very ingenious in what
he did. Very creative. And due to

02:11:48.759 --> 02:11:51.765
they wouldn't hire, they didn't give
it was gonna replace me and they

02:11:51.798 --> 02:11:54.845
weren't gonna replace me.

02:11:54.878 --> 02:12:00.515
He came to see me and in fact, he took
every graduate computer science

02:12:00.548 --> 02:12:06.487
course as a civil engineering
structure student. And they offered him a

02:12:06.520 --> 02:12:11.666
job, computer science. His degree was
ins structural but it was a very low

02:12:11.699 --> 02:12:17.567
end. It was, you know, 20,000 or
something. He said I have a second offer.

02:12:17.600 --> 02:12:22.406
He said ma community college has two
openings, one for their mathematics

02:12:22.439 --> 02:12:27.187
area and one for science.

02:12:27.220 --> 02:12:31.196
He said, I, I applied for both of
them. I didn't know which one and they

02:12:31.229 --> 02:12:37.446
gave me both jobs. They said they'd
combine them, combine the salaries.

02:12:37.479 --> 02:12:40.897
And I, if I would do both of them,

02:12:40.930 --> 02:12:46.467
his entrance off was 75,000

02:12:46.500 --> 02:12:50.857
and that didn't include summers. They
provided extra work for him in the

02:12:50.890 --> 02:12:56.107
summertime. He still live there. It
was the right place for him. He's not

02:12:56.140 --> 02:13:02.476
a what a research guy. He, he really,
he was a teacher and now he's the

02:13:02.509 --> 02:13:08.925
area that he's over there has about
15,000 students in it. The father was

02:13:08.958 --> 02:13:15.756
the commandant of the Marine Base in U
A. So he was a yes sir. No, sir.

02:13:15.789 --> 02:13:20.656
And the best beer drinker I ever saw,

02:13:20.689 --> 02:13:27.237
oh, Linda probably knows about that.
He uh he had key to my house for

02:13:27.270 --> 02:13:32.196
years. I never knew when he left. He
led it three years in, in the

02:13:32.229 --> 02:13:39.345
basketball team, 6 ft eight. He was Mr
Basketball in the state of Arizona

02:13:39.378 --> 02:13:44.437
scored 35 points a game. You talking
about this um son of the Marine like

02:13:44.470 --> 02:13:50.555
Sims and uh and uh,

02:13:50.588 --> 02:13:53.706
his brother was a Rhodes scholar.

02:13:53.739 --> 02:13:58.296
My sister was assistant to the, to the
president at Cal Berkeley. They

02:13:58.329 --> 02:14:02.546
make you do anything. I mean, and you
could take it back, you could take

02:14:02.579 --> 02:14:07.196
computer into the tiniest parts and
put it back together. Uh, he, his

02:14:07.229 --> 02:14:11.067
father bought a house on what's the
first street on the other side of, of

02:14:11.100 --> 02:14:17.357
Mill? There's some old houses near
Naples because his brother was also

02:14:17.390 --> 02:14:23.166
working a phd here in geo geology. He
bought a house. He's always cheaper

02:14:23.199 --> 02:14:27.756
to buy the house and have the two kids
live in it. Mike took a look at it

02:14:27.789 --> 02:14:33.217
and in a garage, he built a second
story. He himself did it, did all the

02:14:33.250 --> 02:14:37.567
electrical, all the plumbing. He got
it all passed by the city. And then

02:14:37.600 --> 02:14:39.746
he and his brother lived in the garage
when they rented out the whole

02:14:39.779 --> 02:14:45.107
house.

02:14:45.140 --> 02:14:49.256
He stopped at the house one time. He
had three daughters and he stopped

02:14:49.289 --> 02:14:54.467
over at the house one time, a long
time after this. And she had had this

02:14:54.500 --> 02:15:00.555
little Volkswagen beetle when they got
married. Uh, he'd had it for 10

02:15:00.588 --> 02:15:06.046
years and he came into the house and
the whole roof was caved in and I

02:15:06.079 --> 02:15:10.126
said, Mike, is anybody hurt? Oh, no.
He said the girls were using it for a

02:15:10.159 --> 02:15:14.946
trampoline and I haven't got it popped
out yet

02:15:14.979 --> 02:15:19.876
and that's how relaxed he was, you
know. Uh,

02:15:19.909 --> 02:15:23.656
but the, yeah, the two best students
we ever had you would not offer. So,

02:15:23.689 --> 02:15:27.857
Harry, thank you for a great
interview.

02:15:27.890 --> 02:15:32.628
Uh I'll have to think back on what I
said now.