WEBVTT 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:04.686 Wanna, uh, identify the tape that today is, uh, what is it Friday, 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:11.245 January 13th. And that's all, what is about 2006. And I'm Pam Stevenson 00:00:11.278 --> 00:00:15.886 doing the interview. And our photographer here is Manny Garcia and we're 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:21.576 doing a living history video interview for the, uh, Arizona State 00:00:21.609 --> 00:00:25.675 University Retirees Association. And we're at the visitor information 00:00:25.708 --> 00:00:30.956 center at a su at rural and Apache. Soon to be torn down. I understand. Um 00:00:30.989 --> 00:00:34.945 , and I'd like to have you introduce yourself. Why don't you give us your 00:00:34.978 --> 00:00:39.557 full name? I'm Lonnie Ostrom. And, uh, I've been at Arizona State 00:00:39.590 --> 00:00:45.385 University for 33 years going on 34 00:00:45.418 --> 00:00:50.936 for a lot of people thought it should be or was, but I was actually named 00:00:50.969 --> 00:00:56.957 after my mother's pet rabbit. And so it, it was Lonnie and then my mother 00:00:56.990 --> 00:01:02.546 is named the rest of the family and it's Lonnie Ronnie, Donnie Bonnie. And 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:07.915 so she still does to this day have a sense of humor, but, you know, we 00:01:07.948 --> 00:01:14.507 still deal with it. So, ok, well, that answers one question. Let's get 00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:17.826 just a little bit of background. I'd like to get on everybody. Tell me 00:01:17.859 --> 00:01:22.635 when you were born and where you were born, I was born October 15th, 1941 00:01:22.668 --> 00:01:28.826 in Moline, Illinois was born and raised in the quad city area. Went to the 00:01:28.859 --> 00:01:32.926 University of Wisconsin for my bachelor's degree, did my master's at 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.007 Southern Illinois and then went to the University of Alabama for my 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.566 doctorate in marketing, 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:43.275 a little family background. You told us about your mother. What did your 00:01:43.308 --> 00:01:49.676 family, did you live in the city? We actually lived in Silvis, Illinois, 00:01:49.709 --> 00:01:57.206 which is just a small little b right next to East Mole and Mole. My father 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.786 was a tool and die maker for international harvester. And then he had a 00:02:00.819 --> 00:02:04.436 small construction company that he had during the day, he worked at the 00:02:04.469 --> 00:02:09.446 international Harvester in the evenings. So he worked two jobs every day 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:16.267 of my life that I can remember. Anyway, I have three brothers and a sister 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:21.136 and one lives in Washington DC. One lives in Kansas City. One lives in ST 00:02:21.169 --> 00:02:25.245 Louis and my sister lives at home and has to put up with my mother every 00:02:25.278 --> 00:02:32.305 day. So growing up, were you a good student in school? I think I was one 00:02:32.338 --> 00:02:36.316 of those to try everything every single day of your life. Try something 00:02:36.349 --> 00:02:38.416 different. 00:02:38.449 --> 00:02:42.696 I enjoyed sports. So I was actively involved in athletics. I enjoyed 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:48.005 student council and things like that. I enjoyed acting. So I was in plays 00:02:48.038 --> 00:02:51.957 and things that I didn't do very well in those but I was involved. I 00:02:51.990 --> 00:02:56.427 probably embarrassed a lot of people. But, uh, so I tried to do a variety 00:02:56.460 --> 00:03:00.775 of different things and, uh, it wa, it was fun. I had a, I had a childhood 00:03:00.808 --> 00:03:05.767 and growing up in which, um, there's not one day I ever felt that I wasn't 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:10.207 loved. I had great parents and, uh, grandmother and, and aunts and uncles. 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:15.005 So I had a, I had a wonderful childhood. Um, did you have any idea as a 00:03:15.038 --> 00:03:19.446 child growing up? What you wanted to do? And, you know, I, I didn't really 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:25.797 , um, I thought maybe my dad's small construction company that all of the 00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:30.995 boys would take it over down the road and eventually, but unfortunately, 00:03:31.028 --> 00:03:36.797 no one took it over. And so everybody, everyone did something else. Did 00:03:36.830 --> 00:03:42.436 you always plan to go to college? I did, I was the first in my family to 00:03:42.469 --> 00:03:48.696 attend college. So it was important to set a precedent for, for my 00:03:48.729 --> 00:03:52.797 brothers and my sister. All of them have gone on to college and all of 00:03:52.830 --> 00:03:58.495 them have a graduate degree. So it has been, it's great. 00:03:58.528 --> 00:04:02.916 And when you went to college, what were you planning to study? I started 00:04:02.949 --> 00:04:10.517 in pre med, which was, I went on a basketball scholarship and played 00:04:10.550 --> 00:04:16.176 tennis my first year there and thought I'd be a doctor, a pediatrician. 00:04:16.209 --> 00:04:22.467 One of the things I thought I would do and I struggled academically my 00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:27.387 first year and probably part of my struggle was my chemistry class. And 00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:33.137 unfortunately I had Milk Glick as my freshman chemistry teacher and 00:04:33.170 --> 00:04:37.437 is now the Provost at Arizona State University. So we still talk about 00:04:37.470 --> 00:04:42.656 those and he indicates that he saved the world from a bad physician. And I 00:04:42.689 --> 00:04:45.586 always say that if I'd had a better chemistry teacher, I would have been a 00:04:45.619 --> 00:04:49.127 physician and very wealthy today. 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:57.160 So, but I changed the business in the middle of my sore year. And after my 00:04:57.678 --> 00:05:02.887 sophomore year, I stayed there and graduated in 1964. So I was on the five 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.726 year plan. You say you went there on a sports, I went there on a 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:12.226 basketball scholarship and freshmen weren't eligible. So I didn't play the 00:05:12.259 --> 00:05:15.257 first year. I played the next three years and then I coached the freshman 00:05:15.290 --> 00:05:20.486 team my fifth year at Wisconsin. And that was a decision point for me that 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:25.395 I realized I did not want to be a basketball coach. I was on the road 00:05:25.428 --> 00:05:29.046 recruiting and trying to be a student and all the other things and 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:33.015 coaching the freshman. And it was a great experience for me, but it was 00:05:33.048 --> 00:05:40.296 also one that taught me some lessons that I wanted to do something else. 00:05:40.329 --> 00:05:46.356 So when you graduated in business in business and did you, what did you do 00:05:46.389 --> 00:05:52.236 then? Did you go get a job or? Well, I was an ROTC and so it was, I was 00:05:52.269 --> 00:05:55.127 waiting for the Air Force to call me. Well, they said, you know, we have 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:59.901 no position for you. I was to be a second lieutenant. So, if you'd like to 00:05:59.934 --> 00:06:04.632 get a graduate degree, uh, please go ahead. Well, I, uh, it was late as 00:06:04.665 --> 00:06:09.401 I'd already graduated. So at the last minute I, uh, applied to Southern 00:06:09.434 --> 00:06:15.645 Illinois University in Carbondale and went, there was admitted for an MS 00:06:15.678 --> 00:06:23.015 in marketing and I completed the Masters in one year and, and that's the 00:06:23.048 --> 00:06:27.046 air still wasn't ready to take me. I, I don't know if it was my lack of 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:31.817 skill or whatever it was that at that time. But the fact is they were 00:06:31.850 --> 00:06:37.645 interested in holding me for another year. So, uh the marketing chairman 00:06:37.678 --> 00:06:43.455 asked me if I'd like to teach. And so I taught that next year and I, I 00:06:43.488 --> 00:06:49.486 taught, you know, a number of introductory courses in marketing, a great 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.805 learning experience for me. I'm not sure it was for the students. And then 00:06:53.838 --> 00:06:57.265 the dean at that time was Bob Hill who then became the president of Chico 00:06:57.298 --> 00:07:02.245 State. He asked me if I would become assistant to the Dean in the College 00:07:02.278 --> 00:07:08.805 of Business at Southern Illinois. And I did so I wrote all his letters. I 00:07:08.838 --> 00:07:13.265 ended up having to, I had my own radio program which was the Southern 00:07:13.298 --> 00:07:18.666 Illinois Economic Business bulletin, which, which is a story in and of 00:07:18.699 --> 00:07:23.906 itself, uh being on the radio for 15 minutes. Every two or three weeks. 00:07:23.939 --> 00:07:28.765 But it was, it was a growing experience for me. And then at the end of 00:07:28.798 --> 00:07:35.197 that year, the dean had recommended I consider going on to graduate school 00:07:35.230 --> 00:07:39.067 and for a, for a doctorate. 00:07:39.100 --> 00:07:42.226 By that time, the Air Force was ready for me. But I applied for an 00:07:42.259 --> 00:07:47.106 extension, received the extension and went to Alabama and spent three 00:07:47.139 --> 00:07:52.296 years there working on my phd in marketing. And what made you decide to do 00:07:52.329 --> 00:07:56.926 that? Why did you write a? Well, I, I looked actually at three schools, I 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:02.356 looked at Pennsylvania, Indiana. And uh and Alabama, uh Bob Hill went to 00:08:02.389 --> 00:08:05.296 Alabama. That's the only reason I really looked at that. And I, and he was 00:08:05.329 --> 00:08:09.976 a, he was a very good mentor and uh really bright man. Uh and I enjoyed 00:08:10.009 --> 00:08:13.305 working for him. Uh 00:08:13.338 --> 00:08:18.937 I was getting married in that summer and my wife had a teaching degree. 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:24.676 Indiana would only give me $2000 and could not promise that my wife could 00:08:24.709 --> 00:08:29.906 get a teaching job in Bloomington, Pennsylvania offered $2000 and living 00:08:29.939 --> 00:08:34.736 in Philadelphia was expensive and at that time, not as expensive as today 00:08:34.769 --> 00:08:39.096 , but expensive. So we decided, and we looked at Alabama, I ended up 00:08:39.129 --> 00:08:44.895 having a great experience, wonderful faculty. Um and my wife, they, they, 00:08:44.928 --> 00:08:50.015 they provided me a $4000 assistantship. My wife had a teaching job in 00:08:50.048 --> 00:08:55.775 Tuscaloosa. An interesting time. We didn't realize it at the time, but it 00:08:55.808 --> 00:09:02.057 was the first year of integration in this public school system in Alabama. 00:09:02.090 --> 00:09:06.667 It was a great learning experience for my wife at that time and 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:11.596 unbelievable learning experience. But in all the things that were you went 00:09:11.629 --> 00:09:17.807 through the campus was always sort of a peaceful area where education was 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:24.856 still the primary motivation for everyone there. What year was that? 1966 00:09:24.889 --> 00:09:29.746 and I finished in 1969. Why did you decide to get a phd in marketing 00:09:29.779 --> 00:09:33.275 rather than just working in marketing? Well, I thought about it quite 00:09:33.308 --> 00:09:39.145 often and I, I think I, I would never have gone on if I, if I did not have 00:09:39.178 --> 00:09:44.326 the experience of teaching at Southern Illinois, I love the classroom. I 00:09:44.359 --> 00:09:50.395 realized I did not have the fundamentals or the knowledge to truly teach 00:09:50.428 --> 00:09:57.226 at the college level after having received a master's. And so I felt it 00:09:57.259 --> 00:10:02.025 was a good thing to do was to move on and try it. And I loved it. And I 00:10:02.058 --> 00:10:08.696 taught at Alabama. I had a great experience in Alabama in teaching. And 00:10:08.729 --> 00:10:15.217 then when I left Alabama in 69 or in 69 I went to the Air Force and spent 00:10:15.250 --> 00:10:21.177 almost four years in the Air Force with teaching at a graduate logistics 00:10:21.210 --> 00:10:25.537 management program in Dayton, Ohio at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. So 00:10:25.570 --> 00:10:31.547 it was a wonderful experience there. I learned a great deal almost every 00:10:31.580 --> 00:10:35.736 one of the students at that time was older than I was. All of them were 00:10:35.769 --> 00:10:42.417 officers from Captain major, Lieutenant colonel and Colonel. So you had to 00:10:42.450 --> 00:10:47.677 have a good knowledge base. You had to have quite a bit of humility or 00:10:47.710 --> 00:10:53.157 they would provide you that humility. But it was wonderful. I made a large 00:10:53.190 --> 00:11:00.375 number of friends and many of them are still friends to this day. So, and 00:11:00.408 --> 00:11:06.856 then three of them actually received, received their phd at Arizona State 00:11:06.889 --> 00:11:13.976 University, two of them in uh in business and there was two others in 00:11:14.009 --> 00:11:18.807 industrial engineering in the College of Engineering. Did you ever think 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:24.616 about going out into the corporate world and working in? I I did um 00:11:24.649 --> 00:11:32.525 actually had an offer from Shell in Houston to go there and at the last 00:11:32.558 --> 00:11:38.287 minute decided that I'd rather go to ACADEM. And my last two choices were 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:42.186 SMU and as U and the chairman of the marketing department at that time 00:11:42.219 --> 00:11:47.346 happened to be a former faculty member at the University of Alabama and I 00:11:47.379 --> 00:11:54.196 knew him and that was one of the key factors in my leaving or deciding on 00:11:54.229 --> 00:12:00.967 coming to issue. And when did you come to issue in January of 1972? 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:07.726 The decision to come in 1972 there were some variables to it. But, and uh 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:12.846 when I interviewed Dean Overman, Glenn Overman, who was the dean at that 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:18.157 particular time and had indicated that he may be interested in having me 00:12:18.190 --> 00:12:22.807 work in the dean's office because I had been in the Air Force, had some 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:29.145 administrative experience in the dean's office prior to that. And so asked 00:12:29.178 --> 00:12:33.667 me if I would be interested and I was, and I think that probably was the 00:12:33.700 --> 00:12:38.255 deciding factor in my coming to Arizona State University. Were you 00:12:38.288 --> 00:12:42.265 thinking of coming out here as a stepping stone or did you plan to be here 00:12:42.298 --> 00:12:47.326 all these years? I actually planned on coming out being here three or four 00:12:47.359 --> 00:12:51.787 years and maybe moving back to the Midwest, which I think is true of 00:12:51.820 --> 00:12:58.986 everybody that I've known who has been on the faculty here. So you come, 00:12:59.019 --> 00:13:05.066 not wanting to do you want to enhance your record so that you're prepared 00:13:05.099 --> 00:13:11.145 to move on. I thought that working in the dean's office and doing work in 00:13:11.178 --> 00:13:18.015 the marketing area would allow me to move on in three or four years. And 00:13:18.048 --> 00:13:24.346 actually, it was staying here was truly one of the most unbelievable 00:13:24.379 --> 00:13:29.037 experiences that anyone could ever ask for. So I wouldn't trade. There's a 00:13:29.070 --> 00:13:32.217 couple of days I would trade, but I certainly wouldn't trade the 00:13:32.250 --> 00:13:34.316 experience. 00:13:34.349 --> 00:13:39.015 What was your first impression of Arizona when you came out? Well, and you 00:13:39.048 --> 00:13:42.875 know, I, I'd only been here one time before and that's when Wisconsin 00:13:42.908 --> 00:13:48.547 played the University of Arizona basketball back in 19, 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:50.755 1962 00:13:50.788 --> 00:13:56.086 I think. So. That was my only time here. I thought it was almost all 00:13:56.119 --> 00:14:02.167 desert and that was my perspective of it. But the individuals that I, that 00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:05.226 I had known that had gone to Arizona State University were wonderful 00:14:05.259 --> 00:14:12.576 people well prepared. And so it took me a couple of years to adjust to the 00:14:12.609 --> 00:14:17.936 fact that I liked brown and didn't look for the rich green grass all the 00:14:17.969 --> 00:14:22.307 time. On the other hand, if you put water anywhere, something would grow. 00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:24.417 So 00:14:24.450 --> 00:14:31.836 it was an easy adjustment, but it was also a wonderful adjustment. I had 00:14:31.869 --> 00:14:36.986 wonderful people to work with. Um I think the department that I went into 00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:42.946 had uh individuals who were really helpful to me, allowed me to build a 00:14:42.979 --> 00:14:48.807 research record. My time downstairs was wonderful. The assistant associate 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:54.726 deans were great mentors Elmer Gooding and Bill, he were great to work 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:59.486 with. We had a lot of fun at that time, the College of Business actually 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:04.866 scheduled its own classrooms. So at the beginning of each semester, 00:15:04.899 --> 00:15:10.476 Elmer and I and Bill would spend hours upon hours adjusting classes to fit 00:15:10.509 --> 00:15:14.486 classrooms. And that's when the College of Business was growing so rapidly 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:19.917 , we could not, we had more students than we ever thought that we would 00:15:19.950 --> 00:15:25.677 really need. And so the orientation at that time was really 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:31.856 great teaching and great service. And then they were beginning to hire 00:15:31.889 --> 00:15:38.236 faculty to build a research record. But it was no matter what anyone would 00:15:38.269 --> 00:15:41.217 say. When I came here, it was a great teaching place. The college of 00:15:41.250 --> 00:15:47.706 business and individuals. The faculty took teaching very seriously. The 00:15:47.739 --> 00:15:52.726 dean and social deans and s took teaching seriously and we had some 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:56.566 wonderful students. And later on in my life, I had to know many of those 00:15:56.599 --> 00:16:04.599 students who I'd worked with worked with over time what was like 1972 00:16:05.469 --> 00:16:11.186 1972 the faculty. While there was some research, it was really, as I said 00:16:11.219 --> 00:16:17.787 , a great teaching place. Also, most many of the faculty had experience, 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:24.186 they had worked in business in some shape or form previously. Um And so 00:16:24.219 --> 00:16:31.427 from that perspective, you, uh you found that there was an opportunity to 00:16:31.460 --> 00:16:35.265 almost do anything you wanted to do, you could build your own record and, 00:16:35.298 --> 00:16:41.307 and, and faculty were, would understand it and would support it and the 00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:46.645 dean would understand it. Uh We were really very service oriented. Uh We 00:16:46.678 --> 00:16:50.407 did everything and anything that was needed to be done in that classroom, 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:56.066 we cleaned tables and chairs. Uh uh we moved things around from classroom 00:16:56.099 --> 00:17:02.566 to classroom. Uh when the dean had a uh an alumni event at his home, uh uh 00:17:02.599 --> 00:17:07.467 Elmer and I attended bar actually uh for, for the dean at that particular 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:14.285 time. And you know, it initially, you sort of say here I am, I'm tending 00:17:14.318 --> 00:17:19.736 bar. What I realized later on in life is tending bar for all those 00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:23.956 business alumni. I would get to know them over time. And I asked a lot of 00:17:23.989 --> 00:17:27.887 them for money later on in life. So the experience turned out to be good 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:34.996 and we always had a great time. What was your first job title here? 00:17:35.029 --> 00:17:41.127 Associate Professor of Marketing and assistant dean in the College of 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:47.637 Business? And my responsibility really was the MB A program. Elmer Gooding 00:17:47.670 --> 00:17:50.877 was the assistant dean, then became associate dean and Elmer handled all 00:17:50.910 --> 00:17:54.565 of the graduate programs and my primary responsibility was the MB A 00:17:54.598 --> 00:17:59.607 program you mentioned that the College of Business was growing. How big, 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.647 how big was the university at the time? Well, I'm trying to remember, I 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:10.680 think it was something about 26,000 students at that time. And I, I can't 00:18:10.989 --> 00:18:17.506 be accurate on that. I know I was the 103rd faculty member in the College 00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:23.696 of Business. I remember that statistic but it grew over time to the 00:18:23.729 --> 00:18:29.877 College of Business with about one third of the student credit hours and 00:18:29.910 --> 00:18:34.276 it could have been more in the entire university at that time. So the 00:18:34.309 --> 00:18:39.857 entire university, it wasn't that big, it was big, but uh it wasn't um we 00:18:39.890 --> 00:18:44.377 , the College of Business had not only a day program and the night 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:49.295 programs and every single night, Monday through Thursday night there, the 00:18:49.328 --> 00:18:53.986 classrooms are filled and we had some classes and other buildings on 00:18:54.019 --> 00:19:01.467 campus, but there was a tremendous demand for business courses. 00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:08.476 Where was the college located at that? Well, I would now call it the old 00:19:08.509 --> 00:19:16.509 business building, but it's, it's right across from structure one on, I 00:19:16.650 --> 00:19:24.650 think that is, hm, lemon or Normal, normal, I think Avenue College College. 00:19:27.630 --> 00:19:32.006 And it was only one building and now they have the tower that's next to 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:39.627 it, but there was only one building and we used every ounce of space in 00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:44.055 that building 00:19:44.088 --> 00:19:47.285 run through. Again. You mentioned you worked with, with Elmer and who was 00:19:47.318 --> 00:19:52.585 the, who was the dean at the time? And Glenn Overman was the dean who 00:19:52.618 --> 00:19:58.035 ended up being dean for about 25 years. Uh He actually came in six months 00:19:58.068 --> 00:20:05.857 after was there DJ Hilker, I think was the founding dean was existed for 00:20:05.890 --> 00:20:10.097 six months and then over and Glenn over and came in. Glenn was there for 00:20:10.130 --> 00:20:17.367 25 years. The dean was Bill, he at that time and he ran, he sort of did a 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:22.597 variety of things and was Glenn 00:20:22.630 --> 00:20:27.276 right hand person for at least the undergraduate program in those areas. 00:20:27.309 --> 00:20:30.637 Omer was the assistant dean and then became associate dean and he was 00:20:30.670 --> 00:20:35.756 responsible for all the graduate programs in the College of Business. And 00:20:35.789 --> 00:20:40.897 John Schlachter was an assistant dean and John was responsible for the 00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:44.357 undergraduate program. 00:20:44.390 --> 00:20:48.647 Everybody reported to Glenn at that time, I reported to Elmer and to then 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:54.325 Glenn Bill did a variety of things, Bill, he also did the accreditation. 00:20:54.358 --> 00:20:57.416 Although when you got to the point of doing the accreditation for the 00:20:57.449 --> 00:21:03.026 graduate side Elmer and I did all those statistics and work with that 00:21:03.059 --> 00:21:07.085 particular area. 00:21:07.118 --> 00:21:11.597 You mentioned that there were some students that you taught that we got to 00:21:11.630 --> 00:21:15.726 know later you want to talk about any particular, 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.295 well, probably at 00:21:19.328 --> 00:21:23.706 that time, I got to know a large number of students when you, we also 00:21:23.739 --> 00:21:27.065 advised the non degree and there were a large number of non degree 00:21:27.098 --> 00:21:31.867 students who were thinking about coming back to receive a masters. So they 00:21:31.900 --> 00:21:35.256 would come in and we would advise them, get them into classes etc. So you 00:21:35.289 --> 00:21:39.176 get to know a number of those. But of the students that I taught, probably 00:21:39.209 --> 00:21:44.565 the one that, that I remember most and I still have great contact with him 00:21:44.598 --> 00:21:50.196 because he has done very well in life as a young man named Scott Wall, 00:21:50.229 --> 00:21:55.906 Scott's probably now 4748. But Scott, I had him as an undergraduate in 00:21:55.939 --> 00:22:01.926 business and then I also had him in the MB A program is in an advanced 00:22:01.959 --> 00:22:08.276 marketing class. Scott left I was his advisor too. So we talked about what 00:22:08.309 --> 00:22:12.055 job he would take. He ended up taking one with Hewlett Packard. He spent 00:22:12.088 --> 00:22:16.055 two years with Hewlett Packard and then moved back to Chicago, which was 00:22:16.088 --> 00:22:23.815 his hometown and started a firm called ASAP Software. And he was one of 00:22:23.848 --> 00:22:30.305 the seven middlemen that handled all Microsoft products. So he grew that 00:22:30.338 --> 00:22:36.726 business. And after about 10 years, 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:43.335 10 or 12 years, he sold it for about $140 million in cash. 00:22:43.368 --> 00:22:47.426 He then has 00:22:47.459 --> 00:22:53.406 uh invested in, in businesses over time in Chicago. Uh and now the number 00:22:53.439 --> 00:22:57.217 one and number two growth businesses in the, in the state of Illinois are 00:22:57.250 --> 00:23:03.847 his, he also is in the top 50 of these two firms in, in growth and in the 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:09.147 country. He's done very, very well. We recruited him to be on the issue, 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:12.506 foundation board. He's on the foundation board. He's received 00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:17.305 distinguished alumni award from the College of Business. He's a great 00:23:17.338 --> 00:23:21.256 young man. He and his wife, Joanie both met at Arizona State University 00:23:21.289 --> 00:23:26.926 and he has two Children. He does most of his work and lives in Chicago but 00:23:26.959 --> 00:23:30.936 does have a home here in Phoenix. So some day when the kids are graduated 00:23:30.969 --> 00:23:34.946 and he still has parents here. I think he and Joni will move back to the 00:23:34.979 --> 00:23:41.285 valley. So Scott and I, we talk off and on and when he comes out, we 00:23:41.318 --> 00:23:45.035 usually go to lunch. 00:23:45.068 --> 00:23:49.305 Any other students that come to mind? 00:23:49.338 --> 00:23:56.986 Oh, not, not the student. Well, I have had a number of them that I don't 00:23:57.019 --> 00:24:01.916 know if they were students or they were 00:24:01.949 --> 00:24:07.217 if I just met them through the MB A program. But certainly a Bob Hobbs and 00:24:07.250 --> 00:24:12.676 a John Bela who have been major donors to the institution, 00:24:12.709 --> 00:24:20.597 Steve Evans, who you get to know. But many of those individuals, 00:24:20.630 --> 00:24:26.117 the opportunity to meet individuals that I received in the College of 00:24:26.150 --> 00:24:31.347 Business was, was wonderful. I mean, we, uh, uh, if I hadn't had the job 00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:35.647 in the dean's office and it wasn't really a job, it was an experience. Uh 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:40.676 , and, uh, it, it was a tremendous opportunity and, and the longer you 00:24:40.709 --> 00:24:45.805 were there, the, the more wonderful, wonderful, the experience became and 00:24:45.838 --> 00:24:49.426 you begin to realize it, you know, it takes a little longer my family to 00:24:49.459 --> 00:24:53.795 mature. So for us to realize, hey, this is not a bad place. This is good. 00:24:53.828 --> 00:25:00.206 You can have fun here and enjoy it. And the people were nice. I can 00:25:00.239 --> 00:25:03.367 honestly say that 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:09.857 I don't think I could have worked with and had, had nicer colleagues in my 00:25:09.890 --> 00:25:13.526 life than I've had at Arizona State University. Many are friends. It 00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:16.706 doesn't matter if you don't see somebody for six months or a year, you see 00:25:16.739 --> 00:25:20.805 them, it still goes back to those relationships you developed over time. 00:25:20.838 --> 00:25:27.666 The people were hard working, great work ethic, bright, worked in a sense 00:25:27.699 --> 00:25:33.986 and produced good work. But they were nice people, people were important 00:25:34.019 --> 00:25:39.085 to him. Relationships were important to him. And to me that's what life is 00:25:39.118 --> 00:25:43.016 all about. You can do all of these different things in life that you want 00:25:43.049 --> 00:25:47.555 to do. But friendships and relationships 00:25:47.588 --> 00:25:53.236 dominate what the memories are that you carry with you. Why don't you talk 00:25:53.269 --> 00:25:58.016 a little bit about how your career progressed from the time you came here. 00:25:58.049 --> 00:26:05.246 Well, I, I came here thinking I knew something. I think all young phds 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.526 who have taught and different experiences think they know more than they 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.916 really do. 00:26:10.949 --> 00:26:18.709 But I came in as an assistant dean and associate professor of marketing. 00:26:18.750 --> 00:26:20.750 Initially, it was difficult because you put in long hours. I mean, you 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:28.276 worked on Saturdays here in the dean's office. You, you work until you got 00:26:28.309 --> 00:26:32.147 to work the job done. So that meant you worked at night when you know that 00:26:32.180 --> 00:26:36.206 when you know, every custodian in the, in the building and you can talk to 00:26:36.239 --> 00:26:38.906 them and they can talk to you and you know, their life and they know your 00:26:38.939 --> 00:26:43.335 life, you're thinking, you know, maybe I'm spending a little bit too much 00:26:43.368 --> 00:26:48.607 time in the office, but we all did and we all enjoyed it. I had a great, 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:53.266 as I said, I had a wonderful experience there, but I was able to move 00:26:53.299 --> 00:26:56.746 forward and be promoted and thank goodness to my colleagues in the 00:26:56.779 --> 00:27:03.387 marketing department. We did a great deal of collaboration. 00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:08.706 We wrote a number of articles together and did our research together. So 00:27:08.739 --> 00:27:11.756 they helped me 00:27:11.789 --> 00:27:19.789 become a full professor. I think that was in 1978 78 or 79. I became an 00:27:19.868 --> 00:27:25.266 associate dean in 81 00:27:25.299 --> 00:27:30.147 and I think Glenn Overman had stepped down at that time, Bill R was 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:35.426 interim dean Elmer Gooding had moved across the street to be one of the 00:27:35.459 --> 00:27:40.295 assistant or the Associate Provost. So the team that had been together for 00:27:40.328 --> 00:27:47.055 quite a while had broken up a bit. I had been doing some consulting with 00:27:47.088 --> 00:27:50.117 non profits 00:27:50.150 --> 00:27:57.315 in the valley and a little bit around the country at that time. And so I 00:27:57.348 --> 00:28:03.545 hadn't looked to leave one day. I was in my office and Russ Nelson was the 00:28:03.578 --> 00:28:08.377 new president and he called and said, could you come over and see me? And 00:28:08.410 --> 00:28:12.756 he and Paige Mulholland were there? And Paige was Russ Nelson was the 00:28:12.789 --> 00:28:15.906 president. Paige was the executive vice president. And I think maybe Elmer 00:28:15.939 --> 00:28:22.686 had moved up to be provost acting provost. At that time, I went over to 00:28:22.719 --> 00:28:27.967 talk to Paige and Russ and they said, you know, we know you've been doing 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:35.127 consulting and nonprofits and advising on raising money for a while. Uh, 00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:41.156 would you consider taking our job as Director of Development and president 00:28:41.189 --> 00:28:46.857 of the foundation at ASU? And I thought, you know, I had no time to think 00:28:46.890 --> 00:28:51.045 of it. I didn't even have an idea that this was in front of me. And I said 00:28:51.078 --> 00:28:54.107 , well, how long do I have to think about it? And they said 8 a.m. 00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:57.986 tomorrow morning and this was something like about nine or 10 in the 00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:04.166 morning. And so I went back, talked and sat down and talked to Bill R a 00:29:04.199 --> 00:29:10.776 bit about his thoughts. I went home and talked to my wife and we talked a 00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:17.676 little bit about it because I really didn't know what to expect. 00:29:17.709 --> 00:29:24.825 I, we knew that there had not been much money raised by the university, 00:29:24.858 --> 00:29:28.857 but I didn't know, I didn't know if it was supported. I didn't know 00:29:28.890 --> 00:29:32.887 anything about the staff. Really. Glenn Overman had raised quite a bit of 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.186 money in the college of business for rooms, the rooms were great to teach 00:29:36.219 --> 00:29:40.035 in and things like that. But there was no real relationship between the 00:29:40.068 --> 00:29:46.137 Deans and the foundation at that particular time. So I decided to do it 00:29:46.170 --> 00:29:53.055 and Paige was really sort of a hard nosed individual. And, um, so they 00:29:53.088 --> 00:29:57.706 told the individual the day before and then on Friday of that week, this 00:29:57.739 --> 00:30:04.496 was a Wednesday on Friday, I met with Paige and Carl Miller who was, who 00:30:04.529 --> 00:30:09.815 had this position and they took us into one room and there was a staff of 00:30:09.848 --> 00:30:14.967 a total staff of 11 people including the president of the foundation. So 00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:20.436 10 and myself and Paige Mulholland and Carl sat in this room and I thought 00:30:20.469 --> 00:30:25.016 it was a little embarrassing to Carl. I felt really badly for Carl. I 00:30:25.049 --> 00:30:30.156 thought that it could have been handled different and be a little bit more 00:30:30.189 --> 00:30:34.045 sensitive. But what Paige did was I just wanted to know you today that 00:30:34.078 --> 00:30:37.805 we're changing. This staff. Carl is stepping down and Lonnie is moving 00:30:37.838 --> 00:30:44.607 into his position and he will take over Monday morning. Well, uh later on 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:49.367 after talking to a few of those staff, uh, they were scared to death. Who 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:54.785 is this person coming from this college of business that didn't know them 00:30:54.818 --> 00:31:01.035 ? They hadn't seen before? In fact, my secretary stayed with me my entire 00:31:01.068 --> 00:31:06.367 23 years in the foundation. So she tells me the story that everybody 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.107 thought, well, we're going to lose our jobs. This person's coming over, 00:31:09.140 --> 00:31:13.347 going to fire everybody. Little did they know that I was more nervous than 00:31:13.380 --> 00:31:18.276 they were because they were going to have to educate me and help me move 00:31:18.309 --> 00:31:23.946 through, have a greater understanding of the foundation and the raising 00:31:23.979 --> 00:31:29.887 the money of what was the process and policies at Arizona State University. 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:36.756 And I think from that perspective, it was fun. 00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:43.226 I've always said that when a job or a position no longer is fun, if you 00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:47.815 don't enjoy what you're doing, that's the day you say I'm going to do 00:31:47.848 --> 00:31:51.016 something different. 00:31:51.049 --> 00:31:54.325 So you really didn't know what to expect there or have you really thought 00:31:54.358 --> 00:32:01.877 about that position? I didn't, I actually had done my consulting with YM 00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:05.696 CS hospitals. 00:32:05.729 --> 00:32:12.236 Uh Those are the organ, non profits that I had worked with. And so I 00:32:12.269 --> 00:32:18.196 didn't have a good feel for the structure of a, of a campus foundation. 00:32:18.229 --> 00:32:22.147 And you know, really most public universities around the country do have 00:32:22.180 --> 00:32:27.805 their own foundations, privates do not need them. So I started out on a 00:32:27.838 --> 00:32:30.676 learning tour 00:32:30.709 --> 00:32:36.127 and I was very fortunate that both private and public institutions in the 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:41.857 PAC 10 and others around the country were very, very helpful to me. And, 00:32:41.890 --> 00:32:47.085 you know, I probably borrowed ideas from every single one of them and you 00:32:47.118 --> 00:32:50.785 grow as an individual over time. But I've had wonderful mentors. I had 00:32:50.818 --> 00:32:55.756 them in the College of Business. I've had them in development and I still 00:32:55.789 --> 00:33:00.565 look for mentors because I need all the help I can get. So when you're 64 00:33:00.598 --> 00:33:04.256 you're still saying you need to find mentors. I say yes, you do need to 00:33:04.289 --> 00:33:06.526 find mentors. 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:12.176 You said there were 10 people in the A SU foundation at that time. Tell me 00:33:12.209 --> 00:33:16.107 how big, what did you, what did the foundation do with that? Well, you 00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:21.217 know, I am still not sure what they did at that time. I think I would say 00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:25.166 they received money, they didn't raise money, they received it. So if 00:33:25.199 --> 00:33:30.986 somebody wanted to make a gift to the university, they would call somebody. 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:36.637 So nobody left the office very often. They 00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:42.055 did some telephone calling and they did send out brochures on planned 00:33:42.088 --> 00:33:46.825 gifts that would receive. They raised anywhere from probably 2.5 to $3 00:33:46.858 --> 00:33:52.946 million a year at that particular time. But they were good people. And 00:33:52.979 --> 00:33:57.196 there, while there were some very, very good people there, I was really 00:33:57.229 --> 00:34:03.446 blessed to have Kay Gamage there. And Kay Kay became one of those mentors. 00:34:03.479 --> 00:34:11.479 She knew everybody and so we started on the road. I mean, I was taken to 00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:16.217 meet every single one of the board members and she went with me. I met all 00:34:16.250 --> 00:34:20.796 of the ceos in the valley that ran the corporation. There weren't a lot of 00:34:20.829 --> 00:34:25.586 them at that particular time, but all of them, she knew 00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:30.037 she was wonderful. 00:34:30.070 --> 00:34:33.776 Oh, she was, uh, 00:34:33.809 --> 00:34:38.717 she had great energy every day that I've known. Kay, she had great energy. 00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:44.686 She was very bright, very articulate and hard nosed. 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:50.925 We were in an office in Mariposa and in Mariposa, almost everyone was in 00:34:50.958 --> 00:34:54.566 cubicles. I was the only one that had an office that the door shut on it. 00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:58.626 The others had doors but they were open at the top and every now and then 00:34:58.659 --> 00:35:02.936 it would get a little noisy out there. And I, I can remember Kay coming 00:35:02.969 --> 00:35:07.456 out of her door and it didn't matter because everybody heard her and she 00:35:07.489 --> 00:35:14.836 would yell, shut up and that, that whole office I could have said it 100 00:35:14.869 --> 00:35:17.405 times and nobody would have said a thing. I never, it would have not 00:35:17.438 --> 00:35:23.175 stopped. She said at one time and everything became quiet, she was 00:35:23.208 --> 00:35:30.115 respected. Uh She was fun. She was, if she disagreed with something that 00:35:30.148 --> 00:35:35.905 the decision I was making, she would do that nicely. Initially, it would 00:35:35.938 --> 00:35:41.256 get a little bit harder as we went on and discussed different types of 00:35:41.289 --> 00:35:47.986 decisions. But we had a wonderful relationship. I actually consider her 00:35:48.019 --> 00:35:51.655 probably one of my, as I always call her my third mother, I had my mother 00:35:51.688 --> 00:35:58.445 , I had my mother in law and I had Kay and a wonderful experience, great 00:35:58.478 --> 00:36:03.796 stories I heard. And so many times you'd go to an event or an activity and 00:36:03.829 --> 00:36:09.546 you'd hear the stories of Grady or you'd hear the stories of Kay and going 00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:13.546 through the name change and things that I didn't have the experience of. 00:36:13.579 --> 00:36:20.856 But I heard the stories and it was wonderful. And as I tell individuals, I 00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:28.889 think I always enjoyed Arizona State University. I had a great experience 00:36:29.409 --> 00:36:35.717 all the time. I think Kay was the one who provided me the love and passion 00:36:35.750 --> 00:36:43.186 for Arizona State University. And it was, and I loved her. I mean, I did 00:36:43.219 --> 00:36:50.227 and I always will because she influenced me and she loved this place. And 00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:58.260 I think, I think too few people uh uh really let people know how important 00:36:58.458 --> 00:37:04.077 this place has been to them. And as I always say, you know, presidents 00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:09.477 come and go, administrators come and go, but the faculty are here every 00:37:09.510 --> 00:37:14.425 single day for many, many years, they don't leave, they love to stay here. 00:37:14.458 --> 00:37:18.675 So the the cornerstone of this institution has always been the faculty. 00:37:18.708 --> 00:37:23.166 It always will be, it's getting better and better in some ways, but it 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:27.077 will never be better teachers than there were when I started. So we've 00:37:27.110 --> 00:37:32.175 always had great teaching a much better research institution today and 00:37:32.208 --> 00:37:37.936 being a research one and growing in that area is 00:37:37.969 --> 00:37:45.329 special for this institution, uh reputation nationally and internationally. 00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:47.639 But they will never have better teaching. They'll have great teaching and 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:53.586 good teaching, but it will never be better than it was when I started at 00:37:53.619 --> 00:37:58.747 this place because faculty took that so seriously. And Glenn in the 00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:03.115 College of Business didn't let you in a class early. He didn't want you to 00:38:03.148 --> 00:38:06.635 do different types of things. So you went into the classroom on time and 00:38:06.668 --> 00:38:13.037 you stayed the full class class period. And so you took teaching seriously 00:38:13.070 --> 00:38:17.787 and everyone took it seriously and, and we were evaluated every year as to 00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:22.577 on the teaching side of the house. So it was important. 00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:27.316 You mentioned that you were in Mariposa when you started, what was 00:38:27.349 --> 00:38:32.336 Mariposa? What was that like? Where on campus was that Mariposa was 00:38:32.369 --> 00:38:39.796 located on Apache right across from the old Indian Tepees that used to be 00:38:39.829 --> 00:38:46.626 on Apache. It was a home for graduate students that lived there and some 00:38:46.659 --> 00:38:51.057 disabled students that lived, that were on campus and programs lived in 00:38:51.090 --> 00:38:53.376 Mariposa, 00:38:53.409 --> 00:38:59.006 Mariposa and it had a cafeteria there, etc, which we could go in the back 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.816 when we were hungry and we eat lunch. Although most of the time we spent 00:39:01.849 --> 00:39:06.566 out of the office downtown in somebody else's office or eating lunch. And 00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:10.827 my job, everybody felt was to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner someplace 00:39:10.860 --> 00:39:15.336 else and gain weight but get to know people while you're doing it. But 00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:20.896 Mariposa was a really interesting place. It was not well taken care of at 00:39:20.929 --> 00:39:28.077 the time. So, uh, if there was, if, if it was going to rain, if we going 00:39:28.110 --> 00:39:33.077 to rain, you made sure you covered your computers. Uh, so that, because 00:39:33.110 --> 00:39:37.327 you had pots sitting all around, usually 78 or 9, 10 of those or whatever 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.006 it was in different places where you knew the rain came in. Uh, you, you 00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:46.686 knew that because, uh, in this, that especially in the summer when they 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:51.126 closed the cafeteria that your friendly cockroaches were going to join you 00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:55.796 on your side every single day. So you never put a cup right side up. It 00:39:55.829 --> 00:39:59.106 was always turned down because those that didn't, you would have five or 00:39:59.139 --> 00:40:03.787 six cockroaches in your, uh, in your cup at that particular time. It was 00:40:03.820 --> 00:40:08.186 really funny. One day, uh, on Monday morning we came in and it had rained 00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:11.206 over the weekend. I'd been in on Saturday but didn't know anything. But 00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:17.686 Monday morning, when I came to work in the corner of my office 00:40:17.719 --> 00:40:22.445 were about eight or nine mushrooms that had grown in my office. And so 00:40:22.478 --> 00:40:26.247 they had this r the biggest mistake we ever made was not taking a picture 00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:29.977 of them. I remember pulling them out and, and the whole office was in 00:40:30.010 --> 00:40:33.635 there. And every day I left most of men. During that day, everybody come 00:40:33.668 --> 00:40:37.967 in and laugh about it, etcetera. We called the carpeting. It was Las Vegas 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:42.146 carpeting. It looked like a casino carpeting and there was red and uh 00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:46.537 different colors, et cetera. And everybody said, well, I used to come when 00:40:46.570 --> 00:40:49.747 I was a student, I'd come here and this was a bar was right in this area. 00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:53.345 And I thought, well, maybe we should start serving. We get more people in 00:40:53.378 --> 00:40:59.796 there after a while, but it was, it was, it was a place that provided much 00:40:59.829 --> 00:41:04.546 enjoying in overtime, talking about our experiences there. There was also 00:41:04.579 --> 00:41:08.787 an opportunity for our staff to become very close. There were no 00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:16.186 development officers and units, they were all in Mariposa and we didn't 00:41:16.219 --> 00:41:23.017 start hiring unit development people until 1983. And then we started with 00:41:23.050 --> 00:41:26.776 business and engineering at that particular time, but everybody was in the 00:41:26.809 --> 00:41:34.046 same office, same place. Sounds like quite a place. It was, it was quite a 00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:41.247 place. How did the development end up over there there? You know, I really 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:45.655 don't know. I've heard Kay's story and Troy Crowder who was the assistant 00:41:45.688 --> 00:41:52.066 to John Schwa and then also worked for Russ Nelson for a number of years 00:41:52.099 --> 00:41:54.236 that 00:41:54.269 --> 00:41:58.307 they were over in administration. They needed the room over there. And so 00:41:58.340 --> 00:42:03.106 they ended up, they wanted to do some more significant fundraising. So 00:42:03.139 --> 00:42:06.336 they moved him over there, 00:42:06.369 --> 00:42:11.217 but there wasn't much room after I came here, we actually built more 00:42:11.250 --> 00:42:16.706 offices, so we'd have room for a growing staff and our budget for entire 00:42:16.739 --> 00:42:21.695 development was less than $600,000. And that included all the salaries at 00:42:21.728 --> 00:42:24.416 the time. And 00:42:24.449 --> 00:42:30.376 when I stepped down from the foundation in on December 31 the budget was 00:42:30.409 --> 00:42:36.977 14 million. So that's a significant difference and, and budget and people. 00:42:37.010 --> 00:42:40.836 Yeah. Uh we'll kind of run through that a little bit, But you mentioned 00:42:40.869 --> 00:42:44.577 initially that when you came there, they weren't raising money, they were 00:42:44.610 --> 00:42:49.316 receiving money. What's the difference? Well, I think building a 00:42:49.349 --> 00:42:56.077 comprehensive fundraising program where you, you are out building 00:42:56.110 --> 00:43:02.195 relationships, uh, educating the community on the priorities of the 00:43:02.228 --> 00:43:06.865 institution, its vision where it is where it's going and that private 00:43:06.898 --> 00:43:11.986 support can be the difference between an average institution and a very 00:43:12.019 --> 00:43:16.787 good institution or a great institution. We were significantly behind in 00:43:16.820 --> 00:43:21.146 raising money of some of the east coast schools, Midwest schools that had 00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:25.865 for a long time 00:43:25.898 --> 00:43:30.506 raising money and actually had a couple of campaigns under their belt. We 00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:36.227 were still in some ways considered a commuter school. We had a lot of 00:43:36.260 --> 00:43:39.695 students that came at night parking. Initially when I went into the 00:43:39.728 --> 00:43:44.256 College of Business was $5 and we call it a hunting license to find a 00:43:44.289 --> 00:43:48.445 place to park and sometimes you would come very early in the morning to 00:43:48.478 --> 00:43:55.416 make sure you could park. So, uh it, it, it it was, it was a different, 00:43:55.449 --> 00:43:59.905 different place at that time 00:43:59.938 --> 00:44:03.546 when you took it over. Were there plans to change that is that you were 00:44:03.579 --> 00:44:09.356 put in charge? I think that's what Russ Nelson and Paige expected was to 00:44:09.389 --> 00:44:13.905 build a comprehensive program. I think Carl Miller knowledge wise had very 00:44:13.938 --> 00:44:17.456 good knowledge, probably had a better knowledge base than I did. He'd 00:44:17.489 --> 00:44:22.736 worked in Seattle before and came to a issue and was there for 10 years, 00:44:22.769 --> 00:44:27.595 but there wasn't great support for development. I had taken a look at some 00:44:27.628 --> 00:44:33.916 of the recommendations he had made and they had never been supported. So I 00:44:33.949 --> 00:44:39.717 had the benefit of Russ Nelson who had come from Colorado and had been 00:44:39.750 --> 00:44:44.706 involved previously in development and fundraising, who wanted to build a 00:44:44.739 --> 00:44:50.606 total program. So I put together my first initial budget or two and 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:55.017 most of it, they would get chopped here and there because when you take a 00:44:55.050 --> 00:45:00.307 look at development in the institution, typically you're the residual, 00:45:00.340 --> 00:45:05.747 you're still your primary responsibilities are teaching and research and 00:45:05.780 --> 00:45:10.956 some service. So development is there and you have to prove that you're 00:45:10.989 --> 00:45:15.115 worthy of the use of those dollars. 00:45:15.148 --> 00:45:18.405 And so it was actually interesting over time that Elmer and I who had 00:45:18.438 --> 00:45:23.626 worked together, Elmer was involved in approving my budget. So Elmer and I 00:45:23.659 --> 00:45:29.287 would discuss those and we would agree to disagree at particular times, 00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:34.675 but it was a fun experience. We hired some very good people. We began to 00:45:34.708 --> 00:45:41.425 put people into the, we became what I consider a major gift program. We 00:45:41.458 --> 00:45:44.695 knew that if we were going to solicit 00:45:44.728 --> 00:45:49.017 our alumni, that many of them did not feel they had a great experience. 00:45:49.050 --> 00:45:53.155 They received an education here, a good education, but many of them also 00:45:53.188 --> 00:45:58.416 received parking tickets and struggles to, they'd stand outside in the sun 00:45:58.449 --> 00:46:03.977 to register their long lines, long lines to get a parking decal all of the 00:46:04.010 --> 00:46:09.865 things that eat at a student over time. And so when we would ask them for 00:46:09.898 --> 00:46:14.736 dollars, not all of them were really sensitive to the fact that they 00:46:14.769 --> 00:46:19.896 should give money back. I'm still paying off my loan. They work, many of 00:46:19.929 --> 00:46:24.646 them took 678 years to graduate, they borrowed money. They were working a 00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:29.796 couple of jobs, the students that probably are successful in life because 00:46:29.829 --> 00:46:32.646 they had a work ethic and they had to work their way through and 00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:37.595 appreciate it. But they were not the students that had the traditional 00:46:37.628 --> 00:46:42.557 university experience that lived on campus that had those great memories 00:46:42.590 --> 00:46:47.807 of being able to do things because they had parents that supported them on 00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:52.776 campus. So we decided that the most important thing for us to do is build 00:46:52.809 --> 00:46:57.727 a major gift program, build relationships. And many of the individuals did 00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:01.776 not have an experience at Arizona State University. They were interested 00:47:01.809 --> 00:47:06.227 in the university as it was developing what it meant for the valley and 00:47:06.260 --> 00:47:12.445 what it meant for the state. But it was not in the same category as the U 00:47:12.478 --> 00:47:17.227 of A, it was that was considered sort of the wealthy school for people to 00:47:17.260 --> 00:47:24.057 go to. And as was the commuter school. But the nice thing that I learned 00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:28.316 from much of the help of Kay Gamage was that many of the individuals who 00:47:28.349 --> 00:47:32.115 lived in Phoenix cared about. 00:47:32.148 --> 00:47:40.148 And it was an experience where over time, I can tell you today, my 1st 00:47:40.250 --> 00:47:46.546 $5000 gifts and my 1st $10,000 gifts that we received that I asked for and 00:47:46.579 --> 00:47:52.336 we received. And to me, it didn't matter over time whether it was a 00:47:52.369 --> 00:47:57.595 million or 2 million or 50 million. The fact is the experience and the 00:47:57.628 --> 00:48:03.146 process is still the same. It's working with people, people that you can 00:48:03.179 --> 00:48:08.006 who like the university have a vision for it as well as you have a vision 00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:13.276 for it and want their vision and your vision to match and are willing to 00:48:13.309 --> 00:48:17.925 give you some dollars to make that happen, to give a piece of their wealth. 00:48:17.958 --> 00:48:24.876 And so over time, the numbers have expanded significantly and I would say 00:48:24.909 --> 00:48:30.845 we're on our way to being one of those institutions where fundraising and 00:48:30.878 --> 00:48:35.905 development will continue to be very important. It certainly seems that 00:48:35.938 --> 00:48:40.537 way today, but you talked about that originally, you were receiving and 00:48:40.570 --> 00:48:44.606 not raising money. Is that a different thing you have to learn to go out 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:51.626 and ask for money. Is that part of what you did? That? Well, asking is 00:48:51.659 --> 00:48:57.066 part of the key of raising money receiving. It is, well, we have some 00:48:57.099 --> 00:49:02.695 needs and to me it's not just your needs, it's what's the need of the 00:49:02.728 --> 00:49:07.615 community. What do they perceive is important? So instead of waiting for 00:49:07.648 --> 00:49:10.986 somebody to say, I'm going to send them some money or could they use some 00:49:11.019 --> 00:49:16.057 money? You actually are out there telling them about this institution 00:49:16.090 --> 00:49:21.017 talking about what it costs to do different things, what will happen, what 00:49:21.050 --> 00:49:27.666 will be the outcomes if this vision is implemented? And so you're out 00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:33.606 there building the relationships, convincing them that Arizona State is a 00:49:33.639 --> 00:49:40.066 worthy recipient of their dollars. But at the same time as you're working 00:49:40.099 --> 00:49:44.155 with them, you become a great listener, a great listener, a listener in 00:49:44.188 --> 00:49:48.396 that they're telling you what's important to them. And the more you listen 00:49:48.429 --> 00:49:54.396 , the more you work to find the match between the donor or the prospect 00:49:54.429 --> 00:50:02.429 and the institution and that's the success. So you build a staff where 00:50:02.938 --> 00:50:07.396 most of your individuals that are major gift fundraisers are doing that. 00:50:07.429 --> 00:50:11.905 They're listening, not talking about the institution, listening to the 00:50:11.938 --> 00:50:17.026 donors and then finding the right match. 00:50:17.059 --> 00:50:21.526 Well, talk a little bit about how you grew the staff um and, and the 00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:28.077 budget of course, to pay that staff. How did that come about? Well, 00:50:28.110 --> 00:50:32.356 and as I said it was a process where you were always trying to be 00:50:32.389 --> 00:50:35.836 aggressive and ambitious. 00:50:35.869 --> 00:50:43.436 You uh uh the, the budget grew, grew actually pretty quickly to a couple 00:50:43.469 --> 00:50:50.615 of million dollars. Uh Russ Nelson wanted to do a campaign and we decided 00:50:50.648 --> 00:50:56.267 that we would do a campaign from 83 to 88. That it would be initially, 00:50:56.300 --> 00:51:02.836 they talked about a $50 million campaign. This goal became $75 million. 00:51:02.869 --> 00:51:07.686 And so we said, ok, how are we going to do this? We recruited Bob Bulla 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:14.845 who worked initially for the newspapers and then Valley Bank and then Blue 00:51:14.878 --> 00:51:20.557 Cross Blue Shield where he was the chairman and CEO, he became our chair. 00:51:20.590 --> 00:51:27.155 We hired staff, not only in the foundation but the university paid for 00:51:27.188 --> 00:51:31.135 that. The foundation was too small. Its assets when I started were about 00:51:31.168 --> 00:51:39.168 1.7 million in assets and only 400,000 of that was cash. So it was small. 00:51:42.510 --> 00:51:46.736 So really the university is the one who funded the building of the 00:51:46.769 --> 00:51:53.376 fundraising program, built the growth of the foundation. Uh We put uh 00:51:53.409 --> 00:52:00.276 there were new deans in both engineering and in business. Bill Seman had 00:52:00.309 --> 00:52:06.066 taken over. Bill was the dean there and I can't quite remember who was the 00:52:06.099 --> 00:52:14.099 dean of engineering. It changed right after um at that time. So I I, yeah 00:52:14.898 --> 00:52:22.166 , yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. 00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:26.477 Roland Hayden who was here for a number of years and Roland Roland 00:52:26.510 --> 00:52:32.106 actually through the engineering excellence program, beginning in 79 began 00:52:32.139 --> 00:52:36.155 to do some work to really with, with the central administration to do some 00:52:36.188 --> 00:52:42.155 work to, to build engineering in the university. So he had some ties out 00:52:42.188 --> 00:52:48.506 there. And so with engineering and with business and some athletics, we 00:52:48.539 --> 00:52:54.615 began to be pretty aggressive there. The goal as I said was 75 million, we 00:52:54.648 --> 00:53:00.635 ended up raising about $114 million but it was really focused on about 00:53:00.668 --> 00:53:08.668 three or four colleges and didn't help the entire institution. But it was 00:53:09.260 --> 00:53:12.296 a step in the right direction. 00:53:12.329 --> 00:53:17.456 The deans at that time, except for Roland and maybe Bill Seaman were not 00:53:17.489 --> 00:53:22.287 used to going out and cultivating relationships. Most of them stayed on 00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:24.896 campus. 00:53:24.929 --> 00:53:29.586 The advantage for the college business was that Glenn Overman himself or 00:53:29.619 --> 00:53:34.686 personally had done that for many years. So there had been some acceptance 00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:40.267 of Bill Seaman coming in. Bill was very good in the community. I'm not 00:53:40.300 --> 00:53:43.396 sure what he did inside the College of Business at that time, but he 00:53:43.429 --> 00:53:49.925 certainly did a good job in the external community. So that campaign 00:53:49.958 --> 00:53:55.526 allowed us to build our staff. It allowed us to have a comprehensive 00:53:55.559 --> 00:54:00.456 program even though it was dominated by major gifts of really building 00:54:00.489 --> 00:54:06.836 relationships and working face to face with corporations and individuals. 00:54:06.869 --> 00:54:11.896 Oh, you mentioned the foundation and their assets and how the UN why would 00:54:11.929 --> 00:54:16.655 you explain the difference between the foundation and the university. Well 00:54:16.688 --> 00:54:24.688 , the foundation is a separate 501 c three. And uh depending 00:54:24.750 --> 00:54:30.436 on how uh the university operates, it can be completely separate. They run 00:54:30.469 --> 00:54:38.469 on a continuum of completely separate or closely tied and some almost as a 00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:44.217 subsidiary of the university. Uh There are some institutions like 00:54:44.250 --> 00:54:52.250 Wisconsin and uh Wisconsin Iowa that are really pure foundations in which 00:54:52.418 --> 00:54:57.796 their board, they give, their assets are totally in support of the 00:54:57.829 --> 00:55:01.115 university, but their board is completely separate. There are no 00:55:01.148 --> 00:55:08.396 university people on those boards and they run their own organization. 00:55:08.429 --> 00:55:12.247 We were a little bit different and that we were more closely tied to the 00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:18.506 university. And I think part of it was that when I went over there, they 00:55:18.539 --> 00:55:22.686 had been really, they didn't have an operation unless the university 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:27.577 provided funds for them. And then when I was there, it was the same basic 00:55:27.610 --> 00:55:31.945 thing only I was closely tied to the university. I cared about the 00:55:31.978 --> 00:55:36.626 university and the funding really came from the university. So over time 00:55:36.659 --> 00:55:42.296 now it has grown where its budget has grown significantly. And when I left 00:55:42.329 --> 00:55:48.186 , it was 14, I hear the budget now is probably 18 to $20 million in just a 00:55:48.219 --> 00:55:54.057 year, at least $18 million. And they have, 00:55:54.090 --> 00:55:58.227 and probably half of that is university and half of it is foundation's 00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:06.260 money. The assets have grown to over 450 to $500 million. But it is still 00:56:07.079 --> 00:56:14.037 very close to the university. When Laddie came in, Laddie wanted to keep 00:56:14.070 --> 00:56:19.425 the foundation close to the institution. And Michael Crow, President Crow 00:56:19.458 --> 00:56:24.416 has also made sure that the foundation is closely tied to the university. 00:56:24.449 --> 00:56:30.945 And I think those are all positive 00:56:30.978 --> 00:56:36.467 for Arizona State University and for the foundation because while it needs 00:56:36.500 --> 00:56:41.227 to grow, it also has to make sure it's completely in line with the vision 00:56:41.260 --> 00:56:48.026 of the institution and that it stays that way. One of the things you've 00:56:48.059 --> 00:56:51.486 mentioned, a couple of the presidents that you worked under, why don't you 00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:56.195 talk about the different presidents that you've known here? I started 00:56:56.228 --> 00:57:00.787 under Russ Nelson in 1982 00:57:00.820 --> 00:57:08.820 in January of 1982 and worked for Russ for 9.5, 10 years before that I was 00:57:08.989 --> 00:57:13.175 here. I left the College of Business in 82. I'd been John Schwa was the 00:57:13.208 --> 00:57:21.208 first president and John, you know, we didn't know John very, you know, we 00:57:22.128 --> 00:57:27.206 really lived in the College of Business and while you were on university 00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:29.736 wide committees, 00:57:29.769 --> 00:57:32.695 John 00:57:32.728 --> 00:57:36.767 President did things with the legislature, but we didn't see him very 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:42.436 often. Maybe when we had the initial faculty breakfast, we'd go and listen 00:57:42.469 --> 00:57:48.626 to him, but that's all he wasn't visible to me as a faculty member. And it 00:57:48.659 --> 00:57:53.747 may be that I was trying to get so many things done, trying to be promoted 00:57:53.780 --> 00:57:59.986 and trying to do your job that you just didn't spend much time thinking 00:58:00.019 --> 00:58:03.365 about the president of the university at that particular time because we 00:58:03.398 --> 00:58:10.557 were busy. And I think while the president had a significant role in the 00:58:10.590 --> 00:58:16.675 institution in administering it, you didn't, you weren't impacted by it, 00:58:16.708 --> 00:58:20.385 except when it came to budget for the College of Business or it came to 00:58:20.418 --> 00:58:25.635 some policies, etc, enough space and things like that. But we worked with 00:58:25.668 --> 00:58:28.646 people all over the campus. We worked with Madeleine Wright who was 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:34.836 running the enrollment area, which so we'd go from if we needed rooms, 00:58:34.869 --> 00:58:37.936 we'd work with her. But the College of Business actually managed its own 00:58:37.969 --> 00:58:42.276 building. But if we needed rooms outside, we'd go to Madeline purchasing. 00:58:42.309 --> 00:58:47.896 We'd work with George Morell. It didn't you worked with the people that 00:58:47.929 --> 00:58:54.155 impacted your ability to get a job done? So that was that I had never 00:58:54.188 --> 00:59:00.227 worked closely with the president before. So when Russ Nelson became 00:59:00.260 --> 00:59:04.557 president, I moved across the street, it was my first experience of really 00:59:04.590 --> 00:59:12.590 working closely with a president. And Russ was wonderful. I think he's a 00:59:13.369 --> 00:59:17.586 very, very nice man and I still talk to him now and then and he's doing 00:59:17.619 --> 00:59:21.126 wood work and some things and Bonita is struggling a little bit with some 00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:26.896 cancer right now. But the fact is they were very, very nice to me. And in 00:59:26.929 --> 00:59:29.436 development, you spend a lot of time with the president because you're 00:59:29.469 --> 00:59:34.186 with him at night. You take him to dinners 00:59:34.219 --> 00:59:37.767 and introduce them to individuals. And so you're with the president quite 00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:41.557 often. It was 00:59:41.590 --> 00:59:46.986 an interesting experience for me because I had heard the initial stories 00:59:47.019 --> 00:59:52.227 about the U of A and the border regions and from Kay Gamage, who never 00:59:52.260 --> 00:59:57.356 hesitated to tell me how it was, 00:59:57.389 --> 01:00:03.155 how as never was given a fair shake by the regions. So I had those stories 01:00:03.188 --> 01:00:09.885 and I went to the regions meetings and I was, I it was so true. I mean, it 01:00:09.918 --> 01:00:13.827 was, you'd go to a meeting and the president from the University of 01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:17.865 Arizona would make a recommendation or two or three or four and nobody 01:00:17.898 --> 01:00:23.896 ever discussed it, it just was passed and then Russ Nelson or page or 01:00:23.929 --> 01:00:27.626 somebody else would present a program and they make recommendations or 01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:32.506 Elmer or whatever and the regents would question and question and question 01:00:32.539 --> 01:00:38.595 and, and uh iii I couldn't believe it and I'll never forget one experience 01:00:38.628 --> 01:00:44.876 during that time when Russ Nelson had recommended that uh Bob Weinhauer be 01:00:44.909 --> 01:00:52.727 let go as basketball coach and they negotiated a $300,000 buy out of, of 01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:57.945 Bob Weinhauer s basketball contract and to hire somebody. Well, there was 01:00:57.978 --> 01:01:04.086 a regent at that particular time and a regent that was U of a, there's no 01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:10.517 fans or that's about it. Partial owner of the sons that got really livid 01:01:10.550 --> 01:01:17.816 with Russ and went after him aggressively and 01:01:17.849 --> 01:01:23.445 uh told him that they, that only the regions could negotiate a contract 01:01:23.478 --> 01:01:28.537 and get rid of a coach of, you know, they, the president could make the 01:01:28.570 --> 01:01:32.195 decision, but the regions had to finalize it. So they really took this 01:01:32.228 --> 01:01:38.856 over for us and they ended up costing the university 400,000 rather than 01:01:38.889 --> 01:01:45.175 300,000. But it was the story that I had not only heard about, it's the 01:01:45.208 --> 01:01:53.126 story I saw over and over and over again. In fact about 01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:57.945 that's a little too, too loud. Just OK, 01:01:57.978 --> 01:02:03.227 just left. I don't know what it is. Doesn't sound like a siren. We get a 01:02:03.260 --> 01:02:09.655 lot of sirens here we've discovered, which is 01:02:09.688 --> 01:02:13.135 you were talking about Russ Nelson going to the border regions, right? And 01:02:13.168 --> 01:02:19.166 I'll never forget about a week later, we had a corporate contributions 01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:23.546 luncheon and that's where we brought all the individuals who were 01:02:23.579 --> 01:02:28.276 responsible for giving money away in the corporations in the valley to a 01:02:28.309 --> 01:02:33.577 luncheon. And we were on stage. A gam and Russ would talk about what we 01:02:33.610 --> 01:02:38.307 accomplished and to thank them for that. And walking back, Russ said, you 01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:43.736 know, Lonnie, I'm not sure that I want to stay doing this job. He said, 01:02:43.769 --> 01:02:49.477 this is, this is, this is crazy. He said, can you believe what that man, 01:02:49.510 --> 01:02:53.517 the way the regions treat us? And I said, no, Russ. And he said, he said, 01:02:53.550 --> 01:02:56.956 I have to make a decision. I said, no, you don't have to make a decision. 01:02:56.989 --> 01:03:01.336 We are in the middle of a campaign in the middle of this campaign. I 01:03:01.369 --> 01:03:05.106 promised you, I would stay and you promised me you would stay. You're 01:03:05.139 --> 01:03:09.307 staying until the end of this. So I said, we're not talking about this 01:03:09.340 --> 01:03:14.345 again. I said, anytime a president leaves in the middle of a campaign, 01:03:14.378 --> 01:03:20.046 it's a difficult situation. And I said, so, you know, we need you here and 01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:22.646 I don't know if that had any influence at all. Probably didn't. He was 01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:27.146 probably just, you know, working some things through. But, but the fact is 01:03:27.179 --> 01:03:31.526 Russ, Russ was 01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:35.876 he enjoyed people and there were some that he was not great on athletics. 01:03:35.909 --> 01:03:39.566 He didn't have a great knowledge base of athletics. And so there were some 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:46.727 athletic boosters that were not high on Russ's role. On the other hand, 01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:50.486 there were some donors like Virginia Piper just loved Russ and Benita 01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:58.519 Nelson. She enjoyed them because I think Russ was knowledgeable. He was 01:03:58.688 --> 01:04:03.217 kind and he was generous in how he handled things. And he was always a 01:04:03.250 --> 01:04:07.175 great listener too. And I think, I think that helped, I'll never forget 01:04:07.208 --> 01:04:11.615 one night with a major prospect we were working with. We went to Phoenix's 01:04:11.648 --> 01:04:17.046 country Club and we were going to ask this individual for a lead gift. 01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:21.885 And still one of the funny times that I remember and this individual was 01:04:21.918 --> 01:04:29.006 from a family, a major national corporation, his family founded it and we 01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:35.945 were going to ask him for $5 million which was a major ask in the mid 80 s. 01:04:35.978 --> 01:04:41.925 So we had dinner and Russ got up and started making the presentation. And 01:04:41.958 --> 01:04:45.675 about halfway through it, this individual had a couple, two or three 01:04:45.708 --> 01:04:51.256 glasses of wine halfway through it, we hear the snoring, this individual 01:04:51.289 --> 01:04:53.896 had gone to sleep 01:04:53.929 --> 01:04:57.945 and, and he was single. And so there was, he was the only one there, the 01:04:57.978 --> 01:05:01.686 rest of us were sitting there and then, OK, how do we wake this individual 01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:08.517 up? How do we get back on track to it? It was one in which Russ kept 01:05:08.550 --> 01:05:13.807 talking for a while. And finally, we just stopped and, and we, you know, 01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:19.896 we woke the donor up, but that was really the end of that presentation. 01:05:19.929 --> 01:05:23.646 But it was, it was, it was one of the funny times that you, you have going 01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:29.767 through this. We did but not nearly the amount that we were. Uh we uh we 01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:33.546 did receive a decent gift. It wasn't a very large gift, but it was a 01:05:33.579 --> 01:05:37.856 decent gift and it didn't, would not fund what we wanted to fund at that 01:05:37.889 --> 01:05:43.287 particular time. But, you know, I always say that the gift is the first 01:05:43.320 --> 01:05:48.256 step and, and working towards the next gift. So it was a gift and it was 01:05:48.289 --> 01:05:55.526 helpful. Do you want to tell us that donor was? No, I really don't. 01:05:55.559 --> 01:05:59.756 No, he's died. But his family still, he has a brother who still lives in 01:05:59.789 --> 01:06:05.046 Phoenix and is well known. Um You mentioned Virginia Piper. Can't you tell 01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:12.916 us a little bit about Virginia? What was she like? Virginia was 01:06:12.949 --> 01:06:20.896 one of the grand domes of the valley and philanthropy. 01:06:20.929 --> 01:06:28.126 There were three at that time, Thelma Kff Ka Herberger and Virginia Piper. 01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:35.115 Now, Virginia had been in the valley for a while and uh her, her first 01:06:35.148 --> 01:06:41.436 husband was Paul Galvin, who was the founder of Motorola and we had a lot 01:06:41.469 --> 01:06:49.469 of businesses here. Um uh He died and she moved to Phoenix and lived here. 01:06:50.139 --> 01:06:57.095 She then married Ken Piper who also worked for Motorola. I met Ken Piper 01:06:57.128 --> 01:07:00.077 when I was in the College of Business and one of the faculty members and 01:07:00.110 --> 01:07:06.175 myself did a study for Motorola on 01:07:06.208 --> 01:07:11.827 Samaritan and its continuous increases in health care costs. And so 01:07:11.860 --> 01:07:17.227 Motorola fought that. So I did that and I met Ken Piper and 01:07:17.260 --> 01:07:23.807 in probably 7778. 01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:29.276 And so then I went in 82 I met Virginia 01:07:29.309 --> 01:07:36.425 through KG. Kay had met her only one time, but then I got to know Virginia 01:07:36.458 --> 01:07:43.135 much better. I hired a development officer at end of 83 in the College of 01:07:43.168 --> 01:07:48.986 Fine Arts, Dayton, Grafman and Dayton and his wife, Laura came here from 01:07:49.019 --> 01:07:52.396 Chicago with Virginia. 01:07:52.429 --> 01:07:59.686 Laura did some things for Virginia became close friends, worked and still 01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:04.267 does to this day at Scottsdale Memorial where Virginia was a tremendous 01:08:04.300 --> 01:08:09.376 benefactor of that disgusting memorial hospital. And Dayton worked for us 01:08:09.409 --> 01:08:14.436 for about six or seven years. So we had to know Virginia fairly well and 01:08:14.469 --> 01:08:20.425 spent a lot of time with her and she funded the Galman Theater and the 01:08:20.458 --> 01:08:23.715 College of Fine Arts. 01:08:23.748 --> 01:08:29.436 She was a wonderful lady, very focused on what was important to her. She 01:08:29.469 --> 01:08:33.344 wrote the nicest notes. I still to this day have some notes that she wrote 01:08:33.377 --> 01:08:40.356 about if we went to dinner or whatever we would do, she would write a note 01:08:40.389 --> 01:08:45.215 if you had sent a Christmas card or whatever, and Happy New Year, whatever 01:08:45.248 --> 01:08:51.187 it did, she sent you the nicest note she made you feel as if you were the 01:08:51.220 --> 01:08:56.567 only person that was important in her life. And there are not many that 01:08:56.600 --> 01:09:01.126 can do that, but she was one of those individuals that did that and she 01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.196 was, 01:09:03.229 --> 01:09:07.336 she really enjoyed Arizona State University. She enjoyed Russ Nelson. I 01:09:07.369 --> 01:09:12.206 think Russ Nelson was easily her favorite president of all time. And she 01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:17.206 would always ask about Russ even after he had stepped down and she would 01:09:17.239 --> 01:09:21.446 always send him a Christmas card and things like that. So she's a good 01:09:21.479 --> 01:09:26.635 lady, good lady, wonderful benefactor for this entire community. Her 01:09:26.668 --> 01:09:32.717 foundation, the trust, the Virginia G Piper Trust is the largest single 01:09:32.750 --> 01:09:37.976 foundation or trust in this valley with assets of over $600 million. And 01:09:38.009 --> 01:09:42.586 they've funded the creative writing program with a $10 million gift 01:09:42.619 --> 01:09:47.527 Arizona State. But they've done things that almost every many of the 01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:52.467 nonprofits in this Valley Saint Vincent de Paul Brophy Xavier, you name it 01:09:52.500 --> 01:09:58.126 and she's made a major contribution to them. And you mentioned that Russ 01:09:58.159 --> 01:10:02.647 Nelson wasn't big on, on athletics, but he, it was, we just interviewed 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:07.166 him. He was very interested in the arts area. Russ was interested in the 01:10:07.199 --> 01:10:11.456 arts. Uh And that's, you know, the, the building is named after him and 01:10:11.489 --> 01:10:17.006 Bonita. Uh it's not that he wasn't interested in, in, in athletics, it's 01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:19.885 that he didn't have a great knowledge of athletics. And so it took him 01:10:19.918 --> 01:10:26.897 time to, to uh to, to sort of have an interest and build some knowledge 01:10:26.930 --> 01:10:30.586 base. It is interesting to me. I talked to him last week to President 01:10:30.619 --> 01:10:34.385 President Nelson and the first thing he talked about, did you see that 01:10:34.418 --> 01:10:39.612 football game between UC and Texas? And I'm thinking this isn't the RR I, 01:10:39.645 --> 01:10:43.321 he said that's one of the great football games I've ever seen. And he's, 01:10:43.354 --> 01:10:48.842 he's evolved and changed over time as to things that interest him, but he 01:10:48.875 --> 01:10:53.001 was interested in the arts and he was interested in the humanities and yet 01:10:53.034 --> 01:10:58.086 he was a business finance professor. And when he left a su he went to be 01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:03.237 the Dean at Colorado School of Business to help get it re accredited and 01:11:03.270 --> 01:11:10.397 do some work there. But Russ, Russ was very easy for me to work with and 01:11:10.430 --> 01:11:15.925 very enjoyable to work with. I think as I talk about presidents Russ began 01:11:15.958 --> 01:11:19.446 to build a strong infrastructure in the institution. I think it was 01:11:19.479 --> 01:11:26.095 probably during his time, one of the best, we had strong people in all 01:11:26.128 --> 01:11:34.128 positions inside the university and Russ listened to those people. And 01:11:34.539 --> 01:11:38.217 although we always used to say to Russ, you have to be the last person in 01:11:38.250 --> 01:11:42.687 his office before that final decision is made so that you could have, you 01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:48.366 could have some influence on that decision. But I think what Russ did was 01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:54.866 build a strong solid infrastructure for the university. That then when 01:11:54.899 --> 01:12:01.555 Laddie came in 1991 lady was able to streamline how we registered, how we 01:12:01.588 --> 01:12:07.906 did a lot of things. It was very student sensitive. And so the first day 01:12:07.939 --> 01:12:11.687 he was here, I remember those long lines were outside and he said that's 01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:15.406 going to stop today. So then they had the phone registration they built in 01:12:15.439 --> 01:12:22.166 and the freshman experience and just some wonderful opportunities. And at 01:12:22.199 --> 01:12:26.345 that time, Elmer was still over there, Christine Wilkinson was director of 01:12:26.378 --> 01:12:30.897 admissions. And so I think Christine is probably the only one that's left 01:12:30.930 --> 01:12:35.635 in the central administration from when I moved in. She was in missions 01:12:35.668 --> 01:12:41.675 and has moved up continuously. But those relationships you build with 01:12:41.708 --> 01:12:46.626 those individuals over time make your ability to function in this 01:12:46.659 --> 01:12:51.635 institution, not only easier but more enjoyable. 01:12:51.668 --> 01:12:56.586 Um Just to wrap up with Russ Nelson, you mentioned the campaign that hired 01:12:56.619 --> 01:13:01.055 you for that, that he was thinking of leaving, um, talk a little bit about 01:13:01.088 --> 01:13:04.156 that as a major campaign was that the first time that A su had done a 01:13:04.189 --> 01:13:09.277 campaign that, well, they had done a campaign, a su had done a campaign to 01:13:09.310 --> 01:13:14.777 raise money for the Memorial Union. And I think, uh, Jimmy Crean was 01:13:14.810 --> 01:13:18.595 involved and Ed Carson was involved and I think they tried to raise 01:13:18.628 --> 01:13:23.897 $400,000. I'm not sure if they raised $400,000 but they raised a 01:13:23.930 --> 01:13:27.706 considerable amount of money. It was the first time they'd done a focused 01:13:27.739 --> 01:13:32.527 effort on some, on some issue. 01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:36.036 The campaign was a comprehensive campaign so it covered the entire 01:13:36.069 --> 01:13:40.496 university. And so it was the first time that they had done a 01:13:40.529 --> 01:13:46.737 comprehensive campaign. Russ Nelson said, whatever we set the goal as we 01:13:46.770 --> 01:13:52.345 need to hit it. He said at Colorado, we failed in their first campaign. 01:13:52.378 --> 01:13:56.467 And he said, I don't want to be associated with a second failure. So they 01:13:56.500 --> 01:14:02.345 initially wanted to set the goal at 50 Bob Boa and a couple of the other 01:14:02.378 --> 01:14:07.067 individuals in the foundation said, let's do 75. 01:14:07.100 --> 01:14:10.937 Well, we had some individuals, some Dean said we'll never raise $75 01:14:10.970 --> 01:14:15.897 million in five years. And so we ended up doing it. So we actually 01:14:15.930 --> 01:14:21.536 surpassed that. And I think that was the, 01:14:21.569 --> 01:14:27.206 the baseline for us to move forward. And at that time, 93% of the gifts 01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:32.456 came from non alums that tells you a little bit about the relationships we 01:14:32.489 --> 01:14:37.737 had built over time and that we were fortunate that this community cared 01:14:37.770 --> 01:14:42.055 about Arizona State University and that they were willing to put some of 01:14:42.088 --> 01:14:46.416 their wealth up and be supportive of it. But both the corporations and 01:14:46.449 --> 01:14:50.756 individuals, there weren't hardly any foundations in Arizona at that 01:14:50.789 --> 01:14:54.366 particular time. So it was really corporations and individuals that made 01:14:54.399 --> 01:14:58.576 the difference. And was that the one that was called the Centennial 01:14:58.609 --> 01:15:06.609 campaign? It was uh it was uh centennial campaign. And 01:15:08.088 --> 01:15:11.326 every campaign you start off with about 10 different names and then you 01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:17.187 end up with one that you care about and that's the one you end up using. 01:15:17.220 --> 01:15:21.805 So and every president does their own campaign. So that was Russ's 83 to 01:15:21.838 --> 01:15:28.086 88. And it was, it was one of only two times that I really thought about 01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:30.956 leaving. 01:15:30.989 --> 01:15:38.147 I was called my Alma mater Wisconsin had called and said, you know, would 01:15:38.180 --> 01:15:42.675 you consider interviewing for the job? Bob Renne Baum had founded the 01:15:42.708 --> 01:15:47.095 University of Wisconsin Foundation and wanted me to come back. So I went 01:15:47.128 --> 01:15:51.765 and interviewed Donna Shalala was president at the University of Wisconsin 01:15:51.798 --> 01:15:56.046 at that particular time. So I went and I met with the foundation board and 01:15:56.079 --> 01:16:00.055 even though it's separate, Donna actually did interviewing also, I 01:16:00.088 --> 01:16:05.567 interviewed five times and they made the offer and then I had to make the 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:10.095 decision was I going to come or not come. The first one I called was Donna 01:16:10.128 --> 01:16:15.987 because I really enjoyed her. She's about 4, 10 of such energy and we 01:16:16.020 --> 01:16:19.446 walked all over campus and, you know, she doesn't breathe when she talks, 01:16:19.479 --> 01:16:24.476 she just talks and it was a great experience and I went back to the old 01:16:24.509 --> 01:16:28.446 places that I'd been when I was a student and your pictures on the wall 01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:31.857 for the athlete and the athletic department. And you had all of those 01:16:31.890 --> 01:16:36.616 things. And so it brings back, it's a very nostalgic experience that you 01:16:36.649 --> 01:16:42.976 go through and then you come back and they offered me a lot more money. 01:16:43.009 --> 01:16:48.166 They actually offered me $50,000 more than I was making here at the time. 01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:52.446 And so I really thought about it, but I talked to my family, my kids were 01:16:52.479 --> 01:16:56.876 growing, I had a daughter in high school and one who was just going into 01:16:56.909 --> 01:17:00.217 high school and neither one of them, maybe both were in high school at the 01:17:00.250 --> 01:17:08.135 time. They really didn't want to leave. And so I stayed and it was a good 01:17:08.168 --> 01:17:14.675 decision on my part. And then in 91 laddie came in 90 or 91 lady came in 01:17:14.708 --> 01:17:20.506 and we were preparing for our second campaign. One thing we didn't talk 01:17:20.539 --> 01:17:24.515 about salaries. Do you remember what your salary was when you came here? 01:17:24.548 --> 01:17:26.647 $16,000? 01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:32.256 I remember it exactly. Actually, I was offered at SMU 16 5. And so I 01:17:32.289 --> 01:17:36.076 talked to Glenn about trying to move it up to 16 5, but that was never 01:17:36.109 --> 01:17:42.326 going to happen. So it was 16,000. And I think the experience of having 01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:47.476 the opportunity to work in the, the dean's office was really the deciding 01:17:47.509 --> 01:17:53.237 factor. I like the department. I like the people. I had one of my former 01:17:53.270 --> 01:17:59.487 student assistants at Southern Illinois was on the faculty at SMU. So he's 01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:04.006 still to this day, the Associate Dean of the School of Business at SMU. 01:18:04.039 --> 01:18:08.595 But I think the opportunity to work in the dean's office at ASU and 01:18:08.628 --> 01:18:11.086 meeting 01:18:11.119 --> 01:18:15.187 the faculty and the people in the dean's office, it was the deciding 01:18:15.220 --> 01:18:20.786 factor. And so it was, it was a good decision and one to, to stay with. 01:18:20.819 --> 01:18:25.876 And when um Nelson gave you the new job of the head of the foundation, 01:18:25.909 --> 01:18:30.726 what was that salary? Well, I at that time, my 12 month salary in the 01:18:30.759 --> 01:18:38.166 College of Business was $46,000 in, in 81. And uh II, I think I made a 01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:44.635 tactical mistake because I accepted the job without negotiating the salary. 01:18:44.668 --> 01:18:49.166 And Paige said, Lonnie will take care of you. Well, you know Paige saying 01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:54.036 we'll take care of you. I learned Paige never takes care of you. Paige 01:18:54.069 --> 01:18:58.607 wants you for the, the cheapest price that they could wage or salary that 01:18:58.640 --> 01:19:05.296 he could get you for and, or least expensive, let's say. And so I go 01:19:05.329 --> 01:19:09.187 across the street and the next thing and so I go to meet with Paige and 01:19:09.220 --> 01:19:12.336 Paige said, Lani gonna give you a nice increase. We're gonna give you 01:19:12.369 --> 01:19:19.987 48,000. Now, I, I thought 48,000. So the individual now and, and all of us 01:19:20.020 --> 01:19:24.067 who were on, on administrative or fiscal uh appointments at that 01:19:24.100 --> 01:19:29.876 particular time had, uh we had come on into those positions where if you 01:19:29.909 --> 01:19:34.656 left them, you, you, you got, went back, uh took 20% off and you went back 01:19:34.689 --> 01:19:42.689 at 80% anyone knew came on got a 33% increase because it was the third 01:19:42.689 --> 01:19:48.876 time that they actually used. So the person that replaced me in my 01:19:48.909 --> 01:19:54.496 position in the dean's office as associate dean was paid $73,000 and I'm 01:19:54.529 --> 01:20:00.357 going ok. Came four years after I did, I take on new responsibilities in 01:20:00.390 --> 01:20:05.126 central administration level and I'm getting 48,000 and he's getting 73. 01:20:05.159 --> 01:20:08.756 Shouldn't I have just stayed there. No, I shouldn't. There was no doubt 01:20:08.789 --> 01:20:14.897 it was a great move and I've been well compensated in this place in my 01:20:14.930 --> 01:20:22.126 lifetime. It's just that my expectations did not meet with Page's decision. 01:20:22.159 --> 01:20:24.706 So 01:20:24.739 --> 01:20:30.987 I think today you compare today with when we were there, salaries are so 01:20:31.020 --> 01:20:38.336 significantly higher for selected faculty and administrators that you, you 01:20:38.369 --> 01:20:44.187 think there probably needs to be adjustments for faculty who have carried 01:20:44.220 --> 01:20:50.076 this place on their back for so many years. And I truly believe that 01:20:50.109 --> 01:20:52.437 because 01:20:52.470 --> 01:20:58.397 this is a place in transition, but it's a transition where assistant and 01:20:58.430 --> 01:21:02.456 associate professors now make significantly more than four professors who 01:21:02.489 --> 01:21:06.437 have made the difference in this place. That's one of the, one of the 01:21:06.470 --> 01:21:10.857 areas that I think down the road has to be dealt with why they wait till 01:21:10.890 --> 01:21:16.046 we all retire. It is kind of a crazy situation. It is, but it's, it's not 01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:22.175 atypical from around the country either. 01:21:22.208 --> 01:21:26.015 And that's why many people do leave is because they can continue to 01:21:26.048 --> 01:21:31.345 ratchet up their salaries at greater greater percentages by moving on. But 01:21:31.378 --> 01:21:37.546 it's also the reason why you find less loyalty to institutions today and 01:21:37.579 --> 01:21:42.305 more loyalty to the discipline rather than to the institution. And for 01:21:42.338 --> 01:21:46.135 many, that's a sad commentary because while your discipline is important, 01:21:46.168 --> 01:21:50.357 it's the relationships you make within the institution and the loyalty and 01:21:50.390 --> 01:21:58.390 love of the place that make it special. Yeah. Um, it's not just you 01:22:00.409 --> 01:22:05.976 probably don't want to be part of it. 01:22:06.009 --> 01:22:12.147 Ok. Um Getting back to the transition when, when Russ Nelson left and 01:22:12.180 --> 01:22:17.656 Mighty core came in, what was that time period? Um, 01:22:17.689 --> 01:22:25.689 when Laddie came in, Laddie had been selected but he wasn't, I think maybe 01:22:25.850 --> 01:22:28.946 it was six months before he was going to be here. I, I met with him two or 01:22:28.979 --> 01:22:34.906 three times and as you do you always offer your resignation uh to, to the 01:22:34.939 --> 01:22:38.046 president, if he would want to bring his own person in and in development 01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:44.567 , it's very common in some places that when a new president comes in, the 01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:51.036 individual will step down. It's less common in universities where the 01:22:51.069 --> 01:22:57.576 foundation is separate, more separate than when it's almost a subsidiary 01:22:57.609 --> 01:23:02.246 subsidiary like Wisconsin, the individual that took that job when I did 01:23:02.279 --> 01:23:06.765 not take it. Sandy Wilcox is now still in that position at the University 01:23:06.798 --> 01:23:10.476 of Wisconsin and probably will retire there. And that's true in about 01:23:10.509 --> 01:23:17.635 three or four other places around the country. But so lady, we had a 01:23:17.668 --> 01:23:24.876 discussion, he had done some development in Vermont. He had, they had done 01:23:24.909 --> 01:23:28.576 a campaign, it was a $60 million campaign in Vermont. They were successful 01:23:28.609 --> 01:23:32.956 , but it was, they struggled. I knew one of their senior development 01:23:32.989 --> 01:23:38.656 officers, Tom Smith very well who I had met before Laddie even came here 01:23:38.689 --> 01:23:43.796 and he said it was a real struggle to raise $60 million in Vermont. So 01:23:43.829 --> 01:23:47.656 while they were successful, Laddy and Laddie had been through a campaign 01:23:47.689 --> 01:23:55.147 that had not been a large campaign. Um And what you expect you have no, 01:23:55.180 --> 01:23:58.336 you really don't have any expectations when a new president comes in 01:23:58.369 --> 01:24:02.425 because you're saying, ok, they may want me to go or they may want you to 01:24:02.458 --> 01:24:10.458 stay one year and it was so it was up to the president to decide 01:24:11.109 --> 01:24:16.126 lady did indicate that he wanted to do a campaign, but it would be a while 01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:22.095 and we probably were going to start one sooner. I figured 9394 01:24:22.128 --> 01:24:27.226 at the latest. But after the second year, Laddie had his heart attack and 01:24:27.259 --> 01:24:31.086 that changed many things, Laddie had really been focused on not only 01:24:31.119 --> 01:24:35.317 inside the institution but on the outside the institution doing a lot of 01:24:35.350 --> 01:24:41.726 those things after his heart attack, he really did not stay as much 01:24:41.759 --> 01:24:49.135 involved inside as he did outside. I think, I think, you know, Russ would 01:24:49.168 --> 01:24:54.385 have been known more as an internal president, lady will be known more as 01:24:54.418 --> 01:24:59.826 an external president because he built a lot of relationships outside. And 01:24:59.859 --> 01:25:04.786 then when he married Elva, he and Elva did many more social things and 01:25:04.819 --> 01:25:08.416 actively involved and built themselves into the community. It was very 01:25:08.449 --> 01:25:14.067 helpful for that campaign. We still and we are to this day, a major gift 01:25:14.100 --> 01:25:19.706 program. And so by the time we got everything up and ready to go for the 01:25:19.739 --> 01:25:26.027 next campaign, it was 1995 when we started the campaign for, was that the 01:25:26.060 --> 01:25:32.717 title of? I think so. But I think it was the campaign for issue. What 01:25:32.750 --> 01:25:37.666 about working with lads? I 01:25:37.699 --> 01:25:45.699 think for me, Russ had hired me and so I was actually involved in more 01:25:46.220 --> 01:25:53.425 meetings and probably closer with Russ than I was with. Laddie. Laddie 01:25:53.458 --> 01:25:58.147 built his own cabinet. It really was made up of the Provost and a couple 01:25:58.180 --> 01:26:05.536 of vice presidents and his chief Assistant Ben Forsyth. So Laddie's group 01:26:05.569 --> 01:26:11.506 was probably a little smaller. Russ is probably a little more inclusive. 01:26:11.539 --> 01:26:13.987 And so 01:26:14.020 --> 01:26:18.866 I was not involved in a lot of the issues during lady's time, especially 01:26:18.899 --> 01:26:24.656 when Milt then came in. And there was a small group that really ran 01:26:24.689 --> 01:26:30.036 internally the institution. So I really did almost entirely external work 01:26:30.069 --> 01:26:35.536 . I actually knew what was going on in some areas on the academic side of 01:26:35.569 --> 01:26:39.976 the house, but really wasn't involved in the policy areas like I had been 01:26:40.009 --> 01:26:47.126 with Russ. So as I said, but Lady did a lot of things externally. We spent 01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:50.805 a lot of time out in the evening 01:26:50.838 --> 01:26:54.446 and Laddy built relationships with the regions. He went to the legislature 01:26:54.479 --> 01:27:01.765 , he did a lot of those types of things externally and he and Elva became 01:27:01.798 --> 01:27:09.798 a major social couple in the Phoenix area. I'm going to be interviewing 01:27:10.829 --> 01:27:15.857 Lady in the next week or so. Anything special I should be asking him. No, 01:27:15.890 --> 01:27:23.567 I think, I think that lady was very important 01:27:23.600 --> 01:27:28.656 for building a sensitivity into the institution, for students. And we were 01:27:28.689 --> 01:27:33.626 much more student oriented for administrative parts. I don't think he 01:27:33.659 --> 01:27:37.336 impacted the teaching side as much, but I think he made the administrative 01:27:37.369 --> 01:27:40.675 part a little easier to deal with the freshman experience and things like 01:27:40.708 --> 01:27:46.876 that. And, and I don't think Laddie would have been as successful if you 01:27:46.909 --> 01:27:52.626 hadn't had Russ Nelson and I don't think Michael Crow would have been as 01:27:52.659 --> 01:27:56.156 successful if he didn't have Laddie, because all of those things that were 01:27:56.189 --> 01:28:01.425 built by those presidents, the others have maybe enhanced, but there was 01:28:01.458 --> 01:28:06.277 some structure there that made it different, made it better. So Laddie was 01:28:06.310 --> 01:28:09.467 easy to work with. 01:28:09.500 --> 01:28:15.675 Laddie, had more experience in development and like for us, I would draft 01:28:15.708 --> 01:28:19.345 comments that I'd like him to make with Laddie. I would put about four 01:28:19.378 --> 01:28:23.277 notes and the rest of it, he'd tie together because he was so, you know, 01:28:23.310 --> 01:28:27.296 he had his, he had a relationship and a story about everything. So he 01:28:27.329 --> 01:28:32.666 would tie all of those together and donors liked him and donors liked Russ 01:28:32.699 --> 01:28:37.476 too, but it was easy for Russ. And as I said, he had some special 01:28:37.509 --> 01:28:40.937 relationships with, with some of those lady built some of those special 01:28:40.970 --> 01:28:48.296 relationships also and still have some of those today. Uh So Laddie, we 01:28:48.329 --> 01:28:53.305 started a campaign in 95 which was 01:28:53.338 --> 01:28:58.476 $300 million campaign. And after the first year, we were really struggling. 01:28:58.509 --> 01:29:04.416 We had tried and tried and the individuals we expected to give the larger 01:29:04.449 --> 01:29:08.027 gifts did not do that. So fortunately, we had been working with some 01:29:08.060 --> 01:29:12.366 others, other donors and other prospects. And finally, after about a year 01:29:12.399 --> 01:29:18.206 that began to move forward. So after the next year, we actually were about 01:29:18.239 --> 01:29:25.786 180 million. So in one year, we really made tremendous progress. The 01:29:25.819 --> 01:29:32.006 committee that was led by Dick and Dinky Snell and Ed Nadine Carson and 01:29:32.039 --> 01:29:35.456 Laddie decided that it would be a good thing that maybe we raise the goal 01:29:35.489 --> 01:29:41.237 to 400 million. And, you know, you always sort of become a little nervous 01:29:41.270 --> 01:29:44.675 when people start raising the goal on you because you know how much time 01:29:44.708 --> 01:29:49.586 it takes and what your staff has to do. And fortunately, we had a great 01:29:49.619 --> 01:29:54.357 group of individuals on our staff, wonderful, wonderful people who worked 01:29:54.390 --> 01:29:58.317 very hard during the campaign. You expect that you're going to do all your 01:29:58.350 --> 01:30:03.536 work during the week, plus Saturday morning and that 50 to 60% of your 01:30:03.569 --> 01:30:08.305 staff will be in every Saturday morning. And that's when we would review 01:30:08.338 --> 01:30:12.256 where we are, where, where we were, what we're gonna do the next week. Uh 01:30:12.289 --> 01:30:18.336 What proposals were, were not completed with et cetera. And then many 01:30:18.369 --> 01:30:21.836 times we work Saturday afternoons and come in on Sunday and do those 01:30:21.869 --> 01:30:27.425 things. So they never complained. And I used to ask them because many of 01:30:27.458 --> 01:30:34.296 them were individuals who could not take, get paid for overtime. They have 01:30:34.329 --> 01:30:38.866 to take release time. We never had release time during the campaign. So 01:30:38.899 --> 01:30:45.286 they worked, they worked very hard. They were wonderful. And you know, I 01:30:45.319 --> 01:30:51.996 don't remember one time that a staff member that worked for me or with me 01:30:52.029 --> 01:30:56.586 out of the colleges or units ever said, I cannot come in. I will not do 01:30:56.619 --> 01:31:01.425 that because I think you're asking too much of me. I have always felt 01:31:01.458 --> 01:31:09.265 blessed that the staff in this institution were so committed to making 01:31:09.298 --> 01:31:13.626 this a better place that they were willing to give it their time. Take it 01:31:13.659 --> 01:31:19.786 away from their families when they were making $20,000 or $25,000. 01:31:19.819 --> 01:31:24.786 And so no matter what you ever made, you felt a bit guilty that these 01:31:24.819 --> 01:31:30.116 individuals took their time to make this a better place. And I think many 01:31:30.149 --> 01:31:33.586 times they don't get the credit for what they've given and committed to 01:31:33.619 --> 01:31:37.345 this place and time and effort and their own passion. And sometimes I 01:31:37.378 --> 01:31:41.976 think the faculty and staff have more love for this place than others do. 01:31:42.009 --> 01:31:46.567 I think sometimes people think of it as a stepping stone and certainly I 01:31:46.600 --> 01:31:51.135 did when I first came here. So I can't criticize those people, but you 01:31:51.168 --> 01:31:56.055 learn from the people that are here and the people you work with how 01:31:56.088 --> 01:31:59.916 important it is for them. And that's faculty and staff. Those are the long 01:31:59.949 --> 01:32:04.175 term individuals. 01:32:04.208 --> 01:32:08.496 You want to talk a little bit about how the development office grew from 01:32:08.529 --> 01:32:13.845 that time period. It seems like to raise those goals from 75 million to 01:32:13.878 --> 01:32:20.107 400 million. Obviously, your staff, we grew in a variety of ways. First, 01:32:20.140 --> 01:32:26.345 we grew our staff in key areas. We made sure that we recruited truly good 01:32:26.378 --> 01:32:30.506 people. In a number of positions that came out of institutions that had a 01:32:30.539 --> 01:32:33.885 lot of experience 01:32:33.918 --> 01:32:39.756 that was important. We also recruited good people into the units. So by 01:32:39.789 --> 01:32:45.345 the time we started our second campaign in 95 every single unit had their 01:32:45.378 --> 01:32:49.805 own development officer. Now they reported they were funded half time by 01:32:49.838 --> 01:32:53.226 the deans and half time by development. 01:32:53.259 --> 01:32:59.687 The only weakness of that is the fact that deans are always short of staff. 01:32:59.720 --> 01:33:03.317 And so instead of using these people for all development, they would be 01:33:03.350 --> 01:33:07.226 writing this or writing that and doing those things. And that became an 01:33:07.259 --> 01:33:11.996 issue that we had to talk about amongst the deans that we need their time 01:33:12.029 --> 01:33:16.277 to be focused on major gift fundraising. And over time, the evolution and 01:33:16.310 --> 01:33:21.666 deans coming in the job descriptions now talk about doing development work. 01:33:21.699 --> 01:33:26.866 They are much more attuned to playing that role than they were early on. 01:33:26.899 --> 01:33:32.217 So we have good staffs in the units, 01:33:32.250 --> 01:33:38.366 every college on this campus and every campus has its own development 01:33:38.399 --> 01:33:42.976 staff. And I would imagine the downtown one will have its own development 01:33:43.009 --> 01:33:47.976 staff over time. But business and engineering, you, you really look at 01:33:48.009 --> 01:33:52.147 about maybe three or four places where the majority of dollars will come. 01:33:52.180 --> 01:33:57.626 Business, engineering, liberal arts and sciences and athletics will be 01:33:57.659 --> 01:34:02.246 your largest gifts now. 01:34:02.279 --> 01:34:06.366 And that, that bears out of the 2 $50 million gifts won by Bill Kerry and 01:34:06.399 --> 01:34:12.175 the second by Ira Fulton, that those are the two largest gifts at that 01:34:12.208 --> 01:34:18.845 time. In fact, as you should be so proud of the fact that there are many 01:34:18.878 --> 01:34:23.857 institutions in this country that never had 1 $50 million gift. We now not 01:34:23.890 --> 01:34:29.076 only have two, but now we have I a commitment to do 100 million. So he'll 01:34:29.109 --> 01:34:35.397 be given 100 giving 158 million dollars, 160 million to this institution. 01:34:35.430 --> 01:34:42.116 And he's matching that with BYU. So that's a lot of money to be given to 01:34:42.149 --> 01:34:47.555 a university. But it takes more than those large gifts. It takes a lot of 01:34:47.588 --> 01:34:54.897 gifts from a lot of people and you can't expect that because of a large 01:34:54.930 --> 01:35:00.385 gift that there's going to be enough inspiration by that gift to encourage 01:35:00.418 --> 01:35:05.567 other people to give each individual, each corporation, each foundation 01:35:05.600 --> 01:35:09.897 has to find its own value system for making a difference in the 01:35:09.930 --> 01:35:14.187 institution. And it's our job in the development side to do that. So the 01:35:14.220 --> 01:35:20.095 staff group budget grew and I'm not sure what the budget was at that time 01:35:20.128 --> 01:35:27.277 , probably five or $6 million.95 dollars is that just for the foundation 01:35:27.310 --> 01:35:33.376 that was for all of development. And that's the development in the 01:35:33.409 --> 01:35:37.607 much of it was, although the deans did use some of their money also for 01:35:37.640 --> 01:35:40.086 funding development, 01:35:40.119 --> 01:35:44.135 found it's interesting that the Department of Development initially was 01:35:44.168 --> 01:35:49.845 separate and is separate because it's a unit within the institution. So I 01:35:49.878 --> 01:35:53.956 was Director of Development, I was also president of the foundation. So 01:35:53.989 --> 01:36:01.156 those are two separate units and they acted as one, but they were budgeted 01:36:01.189 --> 01:36:07.777 separately and they were budgeted separately because the foundation 01:36:07.810 --> 01:36:12.067 initially didn't have much money at all. So Development Department 01:36:12.100 --> 01:36:16.046 actually funded everything and over time now it's moved towards probably a 01:36:16.079 --> 01:36:21.647 5050 split for the funding. And I think the goal down the road is that the 01:36:21.680 --> 01:36:28.536 foundation will be, will be self sustaining and that that's necessary. So 01:36:28.569 --> 01:36:32.796 campaigns are the way you develop urgency of the vision for that 01:36:32.829 --> 01:36:37.175 institution to individuals and corporations and bring those dollars in 01:36:37.208 --> 01:36:42.217 over a time constrained environment and usually those assets then really 01:36:42.250 --> 01:36:47.796 help, they help build the asset base. They also 01:36:47.829 --> 01:36:54.027 allow you to more quickly fulfill an institution's vision and I know 01:36:54.060 --> 01:36:57.237 they're preparing for what they haven't talked about a dollar amount, 01:36:57.270 --> 01:37:02.647 although they have of a billion dollar campaign. But, you know, everybody 01:37:02.680 --> 01:37:06.206 has to do their own thing and to make it work. So it will be interesting 01:37:06.239 --> 01:37:12.385 to watch it. How do you persuade somebody to give you $50 million? Well, I 01:37:12.418 --> 01:37:17.805 think first, there has to be an interest in the institution and I'll give 01:37:17.838 --> 01:37:22.897 you an example for Bill Kerry. Bill's great grandfather was Samuel 01:37:22.930 --> 01:37:28.555 Armstrong, who wrote the initial legislation for Arizona State. 01:37:28.588 --> 01:37:35.696 And Bill's family, Jack and Blair Armstrong lived here and their daughters 01:37:35.729 --> 01:37:41.567 , Lela and Sam went to a su another daughter, went to a U. So they had 01:37:41.600 --> 01:37:44.687 ties here. 01:37:44.720 --> 01:37:49.406 You begin to build that relationship. And initially, Bill was tied to the 01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:54.726 law school because the building was named after Samuel Armstrong Armstrong 01:37:54.759 --> 01:38:00.156 College of Law Building. And so Bill was interested at the same time, he 01:38:00.189 --> 01:38:05.976 was serving on the board of Johns Hopkins and he wanted to do a business 01:38:06.009 --> 01:38:11.237 school there. John Hopkins, Johns Hopkins has never had one. So they 01:38:11.270 --> 01:38:14.626 wouldn't do one. He had offered them, you know, tell me what it would take 01:38:14.659 --> 01:38:19.746 to do it and they, they didn't budge. So they did sort of executive 01:38:19.779 --> 01:38:25.076 development programs in business but not a a college. So he began to look 01:38:25.109 --> 01:38:29.095 at us. He enjoyed Laddie. He got to know Laddie, he got to know a lot of 01:38:29.128 --> 01:38:32.826 us over time that we would call on him because he'd given some money to 01:38:32.859 --> 01:38:36.647 the College of Law and some significant gifts, not 50 million, but he'd 01:38:36.680 --> 01:38:42.987 given some significant six figure gifts to support it. Given another 01:38:43.020 --> 01:38:49.425 decent gift, a good gift to the College of Business. So in between Laddie 01:38:49.458 --> 01:38:56.286 stepping down and Michael Crow coming, we began to talk about that 01:38:56.319 --> 01:39:02.906 relationship that he had with ASU and that he was interested in that gift 01:39:02.939 --> 01:39:08.635 of making a gift and naming opportunities around the country. The largest 01:39:08.668 --> 01:39:12.687 in business at that time had been 40 million. There were some institutions 01:39:12.720 --> 01:39:20.656 undergoing for naming 50 million. They were more common at 3035. 01:39:20.689 --> 01:39:26.217 So we spent time talking to Bill. Bill wanted it at a lower amount. So you 01:39:26.250 --> 01:39:30.116 just sort of let things go. And by the time Laddie left and Michael came 01:39:30.149 --> 01:39:34.506 in and Larry Pendley was the Dean of the College of Business. And so 01:39:34.539 --> 01:39:39.675 everybody was meeting and talking and Bill finally said, you know, I'm not 01:39:39.708 --> 01:39:47.366 sure I'm willing to do this and we better wait. And so we didn't, we had 01:39:47.399 --> 01:39:50.206 some ties with family that we knew here. And they kept saying, well, you 01:39:50.239 --> 01:39:54.206 know, I think he's still interested in the College of Business and naming 01:39:54.239 --> 01:39:59.006 it, but I'm not sure if he wants to do it. We just said, we will not do it 01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:03.467 for less than 50 million. You hold your breath a bit and you cross your 01:40:03.500 --> 01:40:10.555 fingers. And so you wait. And so we didn't talk to him for six weeks. And 01:40:10.588 --> 01:40:13.175 finally in November, I'm sitting in my office, he gives a call and he said 01:40:13.208 --> 01:40:16.925 , Lonnie, are you there? And I said, yes, Bill I me, he said this is Bill 01:40:16.958 --> 01:40:19.357 K. I said yes, Bill. What can I do for you? He said, well, I have my 01:40:19.390 --> 01:40:22.726 accountant here. I have my attorney here and I have the head of my 01:40:22.759 --> 01:40:27.946 foundation here. And he said, can you negotiate this gift? And I said yes. 01:40:27.979 --> 01:40:32.206 And he had set some standards that we couldn't change. He would not 01:40:32.239 --> 01:40:35.156 change them one of them is the ranking of the College of Business, etc, 01:40:35.189 --> 01:40:40.656 that does impact the flow of dollars. We tried and tried and tried to get 01:40:40.689 --> 01:40:45.635 that change and we couldn't do it. So there are some hard figures there as 01:40:45.668 --> 01:40:48.906 to what are some, what do we have to, the college business has to achieve 01:40:48.939 --> 01:40:55.805 ? And he said, ok, I'm willing to do 50. And so then we spent the next 01:40:55.838 --> 01:40:59.756 hour, hour and 15 minutes going over each segment of the dollars, how much 01:40:59.789 --> 01:41:04.607 would come in when it would come in? 01:41:04.640 --> 01:41:10.015 We went down to the stationary that comes out what has it has to say. He 01:41:10.048 --> 01:41:12.976 wanted his own logo. And I said, you're going to have to negotiate that 01:41:13.009 --> 01:41:17.397 with the dean and the president of the university because I'm not getting 01:41:17.430 --> 01:41:23.366 into negotiating the logo or what it should be. And, you know, I think 01:41:23.399 --> 01:41:27.845 sometimes we get so excited about a gift, we give a little too much that 01:41:27.878 --> 01:41:34.326 negotiation phase is really crucial and, and Bill is a wonderful man. He 01:41:34.359 --> 01:41:39.305 stays actively involved and he, and he loves the College of Business. And 01:41:39.338 --> 01:41:42.906 so that was a great gift. And if we hadn't had that gift and it set that 01:41:42.939 --> 01:41:47.406 standard, we never would have had to get a $50 million from Ira Fulton. 01:41:47.439 --> 01:41:51.476 Every gift sets a standard and because of that, you can begin to ratchet 01:41:51.509 --> 01:41:56.086 up the naming opportunities and all the other units. But the most 01:41:56.119 --> 01:41:59.866 important naming you're going to do certainly are business and engineering 01:41:59.899 --> 01:42:03.256 and probably liberal arts and sciences because of the size of those, the 01:42:03.289 --> 01:42:09.456 budgets of those. And then even buildings you can probably ratchet up what 01:42:09.489 --> 01:42:12.027 you would take to name a building. Some institutions around the country 01:42:12.060 --> 01:42:17.536 use 51%. But very few of them do that. Private schools do that more than 01:42:17.569 --> 01:42:21.737 public schools, public universities, probably because of the cost of 01:42:21.770 --> 01:42:28.006 buildings today probably do anywhere from 10% to 15 to 20% max of what 01:42:28.039 --> 01:42:32.635 they would take to name a building, construction, construction costs. How 01:42:32.668 --> 01:42:37.067 do you answer people who criticize that? You're selling the university by 01:42:37.100 --> 01:42:42.265 selling the people used to get buildings are named in honor of someone. 01:42:42.298 --> 01:42:47.967 Well, I I think there's a couple of things about that. I, I think the 01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:53.006 initial criticism came first and it's been done for a long time. I mean, 01:42:53.039 --> 01:42:57.487 if you take a look at Harvard and yeah, they're all named after people and 01:42:57.520 --> 01:43:01.317 they all gave money now. Not very much, you know, uh John Harvard only 01:43:01.350 --> 01:43:06.647 gave £60 but it's been around a long time and it was known as the first 01:43:06.680 --> 01:43:11.996 party school in the country. But after over 350 years, it's no longer 01:43:12.029 --> 01:43:18.226 considered a party school. We have not been around that long, excuse me. 01:43:18.259 --> 01:43:20.406 But 01:43:20.439 --> 01:43:25.726 you find even corporations today involved in the naming and I think 01:43:25.759 --> 01:43:31.425 there's more criticism of corporations in the naming because it looks like 01:43:31.458 --> 01:43:36.595 a university or college is sort of being bought when individuals do it. 01:43:36.628 --> 01:43:41.456 It's less likely. Usually there's a more sentimental reason the quid pro 01:43:41.489 --> 01:43:46.446 quo is completely different. Much of it is much emotional and more hard 01:43:46.479 --> 01:43:51.156 than it is. So you have the rational part, but you also have the emotional 01:43:51.189 --> 01:43:55.357 part that's tied to it and somebody is not going to want to put their name 01:43:55.390 --> 01:43:58.866 on something unless they feel strongly about it. And they're going to give 01:43:58.899 --> 01:44:02.397 a pretty good share of their wealth today to put their name on something. 01:44:02.430 --> 01:44:06.586 So individuals, it's very common. We also find that legislatures are 01:44:06.619 --> 01:44:12.696 giving less and less of the percentage of their dollar to universities. So 01:44:12.729 --> 01:44:19.366 development that private gift takes on more importance today than it did 01:44:19.399 --> 01:44:23.726 in the past. So you're going to see more and more naming, but you need to 01:44:23.759 --> 01:44:30.446 receive a dollar amount that allows you to put that money away and use it 01:44:30.479 --> 01:44:34.897 down the road. You can't name things for five and $10 million the way we 01:44:34.930 --> 01:44:40.385 used to do it. But those set nice precedents. But Bill Carey and Ira 01:44:40.418 --> 01:44:46.027 Fulton have set precedents for this institution that will carry on forever. 01:44:46.060 --> 01:44:50.397 And I'm a strong believer in organizations today that when you go to name 01:44:50.430 --> 01:44:54.996 something, you need to do one of two things. One is you not only need to 01:44:55.029 --> 01:45:01.897 generate some dollars for that gift that are going to be used for naming, 01:45:01.930 --> 01:45:04.876 but you also need to put money in there that can go for endowment for 01:45:04.909 --> 01:45:11.385 maintenance and operations so that you protect the facilities. And because 01:45:11.418 --> 01:45:15.536 the legislature is still not providing refurbishment money and to take 01:45:15.569 --> 01:45:20.467 care of these buildings etc over time. So when you name something today, 01:45:20.500 --> 01:45:24.857 you need to begin to, I think almost separate part of that endowment out 01:45:24.890 --> 01:45:30.336 as some are beginning to do that in the east and the Midwest, we have not 01:45:30.369 --> 01:45:33.147 done much of it here, but we're going to have to do it. And we're going to 01:45:33.180 --> 01:45:37.256 say that money is for maintenance of these facilities or maintenance, 01:45:37.289 --> 01:45:40.805 whatever. And we're going to have to do a better job. We've done a nice 01:45:40.838 --> 01:45:45.397 job in raising money for scholarships for undergraduates. But one of our 01:45:45.430 --> 01:45:50.277 weaknesses here is that some of the most difficult money you can make or 01:45:50.310 --> 01:45:56.467 raise is for graduate students and everybody looks at undergraduate 01:45:56.500 --> 01:46:03.536 education as a right. And graduate education is a luxury. And so they're 01:46:03.569 --> 01:46:06.996 more willing to support students that do not have the funds to go to 01:46:07.029 --> 01:46:12.616 college at an undergraduate or baccalaureate level than they are 01:46:12.649 --> 01:46:17.506 individuals that are at the graduate level. And for the reputation of 01:46:17.539 --> 01:46:20.756 universities around this country, if they're research one and want to 01:46:20.789 --> 01:46:27.576 climb up and become a au recognized etc, and things like that, you have to 01:46:27.609 --> 01:46:31.845 , you have to have money for graduate students to attract the top graduate 01:46:31.878 --> 01:46:37.305 students and those, those are expensive stipends today. Well, and you 01:46:37.338 --> 01:46:41.175 mentioned that the development, the foundation and development takes a 01:46:41.208 --> 01:46:45.135 sizable chunk of money, it takes money to raise money. How do you answer 01:46:45.168 --> 01:46:50.006 people that say, look at how much you're spending here, you put it in 01:46:50.039 --> 01:46:56.866 perspective. And that is that this country was built on the fact that non 01:46:56.899 --> 01:47:00.706 profits are there to do things that the federal government can't do or the 01:47:00.739 --> 01:47:07.305 state government can't do. And they, we have a, you know, they grow by 01:47:07.338 --> 01:47:14.006 thousands every single year. The non profits. If you took a look at the 01:47:14.039 --> 01:47:22.039 non profits in this valley, the majority of them spend probably 15 to 25 01:47:22.149 --> 01:47:28.956 cents on the dollar to raise the money that allows him to operate 01:47:28.989 --> 01:47:34.656 you, except in very selective cases, you won't find a university that 01:47:34.689 --> 01:47:40.626 spends more than 12 cents on the dollar. My belief is if you get down too 01:47:40.659 --> 01:47:43.397 low, you're not spending enough because you're leaving a lot of money on 01:47:43.430 --> 01:47:48.326 the table and you want to be the institution or the non profit of choice. 01:47:48.359 --> 01:47:51.156 And if you have to do that, you have to be out there, you have to have 01:47:51.189 --> 01:47:54.746 enough people to be out there 01:47:54.779 --> 01:48:00.937 in my time. My wife and I were out anywhere from a minimum of five, more 01:48:00.970 --> 01:48:06.805 likely 6 to 7 nights every single week. So you do that, you get used to it. 01:48:06.838 --> 01:48:13.086 You don't realize that it's not normal. You think this is just part of 01:48:13.119 --> 01:48:18.036 your life and you make these relationships, you meet these people. And 01:48:18.069 --> 01:48:21.586 you're saying, wow, this is, this is wonderful and they care about the 01:48:21.619 --> 01:48:26.416 institution and your job is to facilitate that process. So, you know, the 01:48:26.449 --> 01:48:29.496 more you're out there, the more you're meeting with people, the more 01:48:29.529 --> 01:48:33.687 you're meeting with the ceos, the greater the likelihood that you're going 01:48:33.720 --> 01:48:38.366 to have, strengthen that relationship and facilitate a gift to the 01:48:38.399 --> 01:48:46.217 institution. And so it becomes natural to do that. But i it's not the 01:48:46.250 --> 01:48:52.246 normal life for everybody. Certainly not an 8 to 5 job. No, but, but you 01:48:52.279 --> 01:48:57.147 do eat well. My son used to tell me, he said, you know, you have the 01:48:57.180 --> 01:49:01.027 greatest job in the world. You get on planes and you fly places and you 01:49:01.060 --> 01:49:04.937 stay for two or three days and then you come back home or you get to go to 01:49:04.970 --> 01:49:09.166 all these places where they serve you food and you have all these events 01:49:09.199 --> 01:49:14.717 and yes, you do get to do all of those. But this past year on sabbatical, 01:49:14.750 --> 01:49:20.897 for me, it was so nice to get up in the morning to work out, but walk the 01:49:20.930 --> 01:49:26.397 dog, come home and say, ok, today I get to work on something I get to 01:49:26.430 --> 01:49:32.996 choose to work on and tonight I get to stay home, I take out the trash. I 01:49:33.029 --> 01:49:36.976 can wash dishes. I can work on a research project. I can work on a book. I 01:49:37.009 --> 01:49:42.107 get to do things that I choose to do. Not that there was anything I 01:49:42.140 --> 01:49:47.845 cherish the things I had to do. But my life was not my own or my wife's 01:49:47.878 --> 01:49:53.967 life was not her own. So it's a different environment but it was a 01:49:54.000 --> 01:49:58.536 wonderful experience. But it was, you know, after 23 years of doing that, 01:49:58.569 --> 01:50:05.067 you find that you can be blessed in anything you do in this institution, 01:50:05.100 --> 01:50:11.166 your wife was almost an unpaid employee. She was, 01:50:11.199 --> 01:50:15.076 she still is, I think 01:50:15.109 --> 01:50:19.666 um well, looking back over your long career here, is there anything that 01:50:19.699 --> 01:50:23.277 um that stands out to you that you're most proud of? You'd like to be 01:50:23.310 --> 01:50:26.515 remembered for? 01:50:26.548 --> 01:50:29.496 Um 01:50:29.529 --> 01:50:32.277 II, I, 01:50:32.310 --> 01:50:39.296 I probably cannot say that there's anything that I did that I would be uh 01:50:39.329 --> 01:50:46.756 remembered for. I think it's what many of us could be remembered for. And 01:50:46.789 --> 01:50:53.147 I think that's the relationships that you build inside and outside and 01:50:53.180 --> 01:50:58.406 that everything you do, you do it with friends and a team that you help 01:50:58.439 --> 01:51:02.366 and that sometimes you're important in it and sometimes you're not, but 01:51:02.399 --> 01:51:07.036 everybody allows you to feel part of it. And so you really become a member 01:51:07.069 --> 01:51:14.286 of a team and whether it's a $50 million gift or it's $1000 gift or 01:51:14.319 --> 01:51:19.206 whether it's somebody's promotion in your department, or whether it's 01:51:19.239 --> 01:51:23.305 advising a student that leaves the institution happy and remembers those 01:51:23.338 --> 01:51:29.656 times, whatever it is, you alone don't do it and you do it with a group of 01:51:29.689 --> 01:51:34.937 people. And those are the things that make this institution better and 01:51:34.970 --> 01:51:40.126 make it special. So, so you can have presidents and have great visions and 01:51:40.159 --> 01:51:46.866 they do make this place better. But the real work, the real work happens 01:51:46.899 --> 01:51:53.937 with people working together, staff, faculty, donors, prospects, whatever 01:51:53.970 --> 01:51:56.317 , 01:51:56.350 --> 01:52:00.777 having fun and I always have fun. I always believe you have to have fun. 01:52:00.810 --> 01:52:04.336 Uh two things, have fun, eat ice cream. There is two things that you have 01:52:04.369 --> 01:52:10.175 to always keep in front of you and uh and, and, and enjoying it. You enjoy 01:52:10.208 --> 01:52:14.046 what you do. Are there any things that, that you wanted to do? That you 01:52:14.079 --> 01:52:19.866 weren't able to do any disappointments along the way? Um 01:52:19.899 --> 01:52:23.366 Disappointments 01:52:23.399 --> 01:52:27.765 probably the only disappointment that I have is that I had hoped that they 01:52:27.798 --> 01:52:33.786 would keep some of my staff together who came, that were in the foundation 01:52:33.819 --> 01:52:39.626 and, you know, but I understand, I don't have any role in that, but of my 01:52:39.659 --> 01:52:46.006 staff of 7040 have left and that probably is something I wish that they 01:52:46.039 --> 01:52:50.576 would have been able to keep some of those individuals around 01:52:50.609 --> 01:52:57.897 that I think love the place. Now. Many of them have really good jobs now. 01:52:57.930 --> 01:53:01.336 But I think they were committed to a issue, but I think everybody has to 01:53:01.369 --> 01:53:06.135 put their own team together and it has to work for them. What worked for 01:53:06.168 --> 01:53:11.786 me may not work for somebody else. But if it helps this institution that 01:53:11.819 --> 01:53:18.126 it's in the best interest, it's that you, you, you care about these people 01:53:18.159 --> 01:53:23.586 because they're what made you successful, they're what allowed you to 01:53:23.619 --> 01:53:28.976 achieve anything that you've ever achieved. So you miss them. Now, 01:53:29.009 --> 01:53:32.925 fortunately, we still get to talk to him and see him and some have spread 01:53:32.958 --> 01:53:36.546 around the country, but we still stay in touch with him. What are you 01:53:36.579 --> 01:53:40.175 doing these days? Well, 01:53:40.208 --> 01:53:45.635 I promise the president that there are some donors that will still only 01:53:45.668 --> 01:53:52.876 work with me. And so I do work with some of those donors. I'm working on a 01:53:52.909 --> 01:53:57.036 research project, which is an interesting one. And I think Michael is sort 01:53:57.069 --> 01:53:59.277 of interested in what will happen with it. And that's the role of 01:53:59.310 --> 01:54:03.647 university presidents in fundraising. It started as I thought was going to 01:54:03.680 --> 01:54:08.826 be soft, but it's taken on a different issue. It has a segment on 01:54:08.859 --> 01:54:16.859 leadership. It has a segment on ethics and it is now become II I, I think 01:54:20.289 --> 01:54:23.956 after talking to my colleagues around the country, it's taken on a much 01:54:23.989 --> 01:54:28.616 more interesting perspective as to roles of presidents and what they do 01:54:28.649 --> 01:54:32.357 and what they don't do and things like that. So that's important. I'm 01:54:32.390 --> 01:54:39.046 working on a book on relationship fundraising with my wife and maybe one 01:54:39.079 --> 01:54:44.135 of our daughters. So that's moving forward. It's taking a lot more time, 01:54:44.168 --> 01:54:48.576 I've changed its structure three times. I'm very happy with the structure 01:54:48.609 --> 01:54:53.175 right now that I have and I expect that the first draft won't be completed 01:54:53.208 --> 01:55:00.246 for 8 to 12 months, but at least it will get done. 01:55:00.279 --> 01:55:05.616 I'm trying to get ready for class. So we're trying to decide in the 01:55:05.649 --> 01:55:11.897 department which class or class or classes I will teach. And as I said, I 01:55:11.930 --> 01:55:14.206 didn't want to embarrass my daughter, but I also don't want to embarrass 01:55:14.239 --> 01:55:17.086 my friends that are in the college. So it takes a long time to get up to 01:55:17.119 --> 01:55:22.496 speed when you leave a department. And the discipline has changed so much. 01:55:22.529 --> 01:55:29.446 So you have to work at it to become prepared to do that. I also feel very 01:55:29.479 --> 01:55:35.437 , very honored in the sense that Frank Labriola on the ASU Foundation 01:55:35.470 --> 01:55:43.470 board gave a $750,000 gift in my name to be matched by donors to do a 01:55:44.899 --> 01:55:50.616 chair in my name. And it's at about a million four right now and so many 01:55:50.649 --> 01:55:54.576 of those board members. And so it looks like it will reach a million five 01:55:54.609 --> 01:56:00.726 by June, which I think is fantastic. And 01:56:00.759 --> 01:56:07.166 Bob Middles and Joan and David Lincoln. And it asked that I hold the Joan 01:56:07.199 --> 01:56:10.366 and David Lincoln Professor of Applied Business Ethics in the College of 01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:16.817 Business. So I feel like I have been honored more than I should. I'm 01:56:16.850 --> 01:56:21.845 humbled by how good people have been to me and I love my friends and I've 01:56:21.878 --> 01:56:26.246 had a great experience in this institution because you get to know so many 01:56:26.279 --> 01:56:33.046 people, both in the administration and in the faculty and you appreciate 01:56:33.079 --> 01:56:38.425 what each of them does and if they do it in the right spirit and for the 01:56:38.458 --> 01:56:42.976 right reasons, this place can only get better. Sounds like you're a long 01:56:43.009 --> 01:56:49.925 way from being retired. I, I don't plan on retiring. I plan on dying. And 01:56:49.958 --> 01:56:54.437 then when that happens, I, I think I'll quit. Let's hope that's not for a 01:56:54.470 --> 01:56:59.156 while. Let's hope that that's not uh this week or next. Or um you talked 01:56:59.189 --> 01:57:02.857 about um the first president that you worked with, you didn't talk much 01:57:02.890 --> 01:57:05.256 about Michael Crow and I know that's probably a little politically 01:57:05.289 --> 01:57:08.126 sensitive. But can you tell us a little bit? You, you're doing the 01:57:08.159 --> 01:57:12.647 research project? I sure focuses on uh no. Well, it focuses on all 01:57:12.680 --> 01:57:20.680 presidents. Yes, it includes him. Michael Michael is, I think a great 01:57:21.119 --> 01:57:27.626 president. Uh mm You know, you, you look at Russ. Russ is very sensitive 01:57:27.659 --> 01:57:35.135 to people. Uh Laddie was, is I, and I said really refined some areas, 01:57:35.168 --> 01:57:39.706 especially for the students and more student sensitive, etc 01:57:39.739 --> 01:57:47.739 Michael is one who wanted to change a U to be truly, he calls it the New 01:57:47.958 --> 01:57:54.226 American University from his perspective. And he is his vision I think is 01:57:54.259 --> 01:57:58.616 excellent, the people in this state and the people in the valley love the 01:57:58.649 --> 01:58:03.607 vision. Michael's vision is more important to him, I think than anything 01:58:03.640 --> 01:58:08.576 else is achieving that vision. So it means that if changes have to take 01:58:08.609 --> 01:58:15.027 place, changes happen. But I love the vision. He's a good listener. We 01:58:15.060 --> 01:58:21.006 didn't always agree. And uh and, and his style of fundraising is a little 01:58:21.039 --> 01:58:26.836 different than mine, but the fact is he's great for this institution. He 01:58:26.869 --> 01:58:31.805 will change it for the better and we will become a much greater university 01:58:31.838 --> 01:58:37.135 because Michael Crow has been here no matter how long he stays. And if he 01:58:37.168 --> 01:58:40.706 stays 10 years or 15 years, we are going to be better because he was here. 01:58:40.739 --> 01:58:46.555 And to me, it doesn't matter what role I'm in or what position, whether 01:58:46.588 --> 01:58:51.305 and some things I differ with him or agree with him. It's that if he is 01:58:51.338 --> 01:58:56.586 what he's doing will help this institution help educate better the 01:58:56.619 --> 01:59:01.765 students of this state, improve our research productivity and bring in the 01:59:01.798 --> 01:59:07.956 right people. I am going to support him 100%. I vowed in my life. I've 01:59:07.989 --> 01:59:12.015 known too many people that leave this institution who are critical of it 01:59:12.048 --> 01:59:15.586 and I've been blessed by it. 01:59:15.619 --> 01:59:20.076 We were just talking a little bit about some of the areas that um 01:59:20.109 --> 01:59:22.607 development might have gotten involved with the expansion of the 01:59:22.640 --> 01:59:26.706 university. Um Why don't you just talk briefly about how it's grown since 01:59:26.739 --> 01:59:29.217 you came here? 01:59:29.250 --> 01:59:35.706 There was one campus when I came, it was Tempe campus, although we started 01:59:35.739 --> 01:59:38.925 working to build some relationships in Sun City. And so we had some 01:59:38.958 --> 01:59:42.416 programs in Sun City. 01:59:42.449 --> 01:59:48.086 We didn't really have any facilities there yet. The first facilities we 01:59:48.119 --> 01:59:51.416 had there was a gift in 1985 01:59:51.449 --> 01:59:55.876 I think actually, it was sort of interesting because we received the gifts 01:59:55.909 --> 02:00:00.737 on the same day in December 1219 85 we received the gift of the Sun Dome 02:00:00.770 --> 02:00:05.687 from Dell Webb. That's an area where page and I disagreed. I wanted them 02:00:05.720 --> 02:00:10.737 to ask for an endowment to go with it because we web corporation was 02:00:10.770 --> 02:00:16.206 making a ton of money and page. Just the organization or the facility. 02:00:16.239 --> 02:00:21.506 Actually, that was the same day. We finally received the land from 02:00:21.539 --> 02:00:27.456 Arizona Public Service for a PS for the golf course. It actually came in, 02:00:27.489 --> 02:00:30.876 it had been committed before, but we actually received it. Both of them on 02:00:30.909 --> 02:00:36.256 December 12, I think it was, they went before the regents that day, big 02:00:36.289 --> 02:00:41.805 day. But actually, it was a big, if you go take a look, the appraisal for 02:00:41.838 --> 02:00:46.487 the Sun Dome was over $8 million and the appraisal for the land was for 02:00:46.520 --> 02:00:51.345 over $8 million. So that one year we jumped over $30 million. And people 02:00:51.378 --> 02:00:56.567 said what happened that year, it happened because we received two gifts 02:00:56.600 --> 02:01:01.027 that for a while I think were important for the institution. Certainly the 02:01:01.060 --> 02:01:08.976 golf course is today important and it's part of the Tempe campus. 02:01:09.009 --> 02:01:14.226 The Sun dome now has been given to the county, but for many years, it was 02:01:14.259 --> 02:01:19.226 operated out of the public events and built many friends for the 02:01:19.259 --> 02:01:23.937 institution. I do believe if we'd asked for an endowment early on that 02:01:23.970 --> 02:01:30.487 endowment would have grown and we'd have had from 1985 all the way through 02:01:30.520 --> 02:01:37.156 to 2005 money that would have been built, that would, 02:01:37.189 --> 02:01:41.166 I think worked. And then I think at that time it took 20 years, there was 02:01:41.199 --> 02:01:44.317 an agreement that after 20 years the university could do whatever it 02:01:44.350 --> 02:01:51.897 wanted to with the sun dome. And in that situation, I think probably 02:01:51.930 --> 02:01:55.317 instead of putting more money into it, they could have knocked it down and 02:01:55.350 --> 02:02:00.187 sold it or sold the land. But there were so many relationships and 02:02:00.220 --> 02:02:03.967 legislative issues to deal with and that, that it was probably better at 02:02:04.000 --> 02:02:07.616 this time that it went to the county for them to handle. But I don't think 02:02:07.649 --> 02:02:10.437 the initial gift was accepted the way it should have been. And there 02:02:10.470 --> 02:02:14.687 should have been other demands placed upon the Daily Web Corporation to 02:02:14.720 --> 02:02:19.446 encourage them to provide an endowment of some sort. And both of those 02:02:19.479 --> 02:02:23.746 gift, although they were large gifts cost money to maintain or do 02:02:23.779 --> 02:02:27.467 something with. Well, they do. 02:02:27.500 --> 02:02:29.906 Um 02:02:29.939 --> 02:02:33.107 the sun dome actually cost money. Now, the Sun Dome Performing Arts 02:02:33.140 --> 02:02:38.536 Association actually contributed a lot of money over time. But public 02:02:38.569 --> 02:02:42.376 events actually subsidized the sun dome for many years. And so there was 02:02:42.409 --> 02:02:50.147 money, there probably g subsidized sun dome. And today with Mesa and the 02:02:50.180 --> 02:02:54.187 Dodge Theater and all of the other 02:02:54.220 --> 02:03:00.536 venues that exist in this valley, each one's got to carry its own water. 02:03:00.569 --> 02:03:04.366 And so I think it was probably a good decision to get rid of the sun dome 02:03:04.399 --> 02:03:09.706 or give it up. The golf course initially was an interesting one. We 02:03:09.739 --> 02:03:15.446 received that land. We had about 4 $500,000. The Sun Angels were going to 02:03:15.479 --> 02:03:22.256 raise the money for it. They were initially thought it would cost about $4 02:03:22.289 --> 02:03:27.916 million. Harry Kavanaugh was set to chair the campaign 02:03:27.949 --> 02:03:33.515 but and they had hired Pete Dye. Harry wasn't happy that Pete Dye was 02:03:33.548 --> 02:03:38.406 hired to run it. He had somebody else he thought should have been hired 02:03:38.439 --> 02:03:42.675 because Pete Dye has a tendency to build all the hills and different types 02:03:42.708 --> 02:03:49.357 of things with it. So everybody estimated it should cost $4 million. So I 02:03:49.390 --> 02:03:55.635 got involved because we decided to ask the, the Solheim for a gift. So 02:03:55.668 --> 02:03:58.967 John Christian, who was the general counsel of the foundation and a board 02:03:59.000 --> 02:04:04.076 member actually had been for 30 years, 02:04:04.109 --> 02:04:09.805 the general counsel for the Solheim. He also had been the longest person 02:04:09.838 --> 02:04:16.456 involved in the foundation and that 02:04:16.489 --> 02:04:19.126 it was salmon 02:04:19.159 --> 02:04:24.366 asked him to, to help rewrite the bylaws in 1959 the year after he 02:04:24.399 --> 02:04:29.946 graduated from the U of a law school. And John had been involved from that 02:04:29.979 --> 02:04:34.467 time on until today. He's still involved in the foundation. So that's a 02:04:34.500 --> 02:04:40.166 long period of time. But John had been very close. And so we worked with 02:04:40.199 --> 02:04:45.357 the Solheim who received a $2 million gift to behalf of it, which we 02:04:45.390 --> 02:04:52.116 thought to name the golf course after Carsten, 02:04:52.149 --> 02:04:58.595 it was unfortunate that the design and the movement of pills and things 02:04:58.628 --> 02:05:04.046 around. It ended up costing $7 million to build the golf course. So Bob 02:05:04.079 --> 02:05:09.706 Hobbs got very active and he led a charge to raise the majority of it. The 02:05:09.739 --> 02:05:12.527 Sun Angels used some of their money then that they had raised out of 02:05:12.560 --> 02:05:17.826 football to help fund some and ended up doing that. And then they built 02:05:17.859 --> 02:05:22.567 the golf course clubhouse and Fred Holmes built it at a discounted price 02:05:22.600 --> 02:05:26.406 and there were some gifts to that to make a difference, but it turned out 02:05:26.439 --> 02:05:30.506 to be a great facility and it is now self sustaining and makes money every 02:05:30.539 --> 02:05:35.496 year and gives money back to the men and women's golf program on campus, 02:05:35.529 --> 02:05:41.607 varsity golf programs as well as taking care of itself. 02:05:41.640 --> 02:05:45.317 What about the growth of the campuses? I talk a little bit about how those 02:05:45.350 --> 02:05:50.067 things came about and how you were involved. Well, I think I was involved 02:05:50.100 --> 02:05:58.100 tangentially into those. Certainly the first one 02:05:59.310 --> 02:06:07.015 other than the sun dome, etc was ASU West and that property was property 02:06:07.048 --> 02:06:11.996 that had been leased from the state and I'm trying to remember who 02:06:12.029 --> 02:06:17.805 actually managed that. I know the family real well, but I can't pull it 02:06:17.838 --> 02:06:24.206 back right now. But they had that property, the university bought it from 02:06:24.239 --> 02:06:29.876 the state. Uh, and then, uh, that property then was used to build a Su 02:06:29.909 --> 02:06:34.055 West. I remember the groundbreaking that, that happened. And, uh, but I 02:06:34.088 --> 02:06:37.076 wasn't involved other than working with the family, we did ask the family 02:06:37.109 --> 02:06:43.076 for money and uh they, they've given a scholarship money from a Su West 02:06:43.109 --> 02:06:46.607 and, and it's been very supportive. There's a room in the library named 02:06:46.640 --> 02:06:52.437 after the, the, the, the wife of the family. Now it's what happens when 02:06:52.470 --> 02:06:57.555 you get to be 64 you don't have notes with you all the time. Uh But uh 02:06:57.588 --> 02:07:03.036 that one has grown and developed over time. 02:07:03.069 --> 02:07:06.956 I think it, uh it's, 02:07:06.989 --> 02:07:11.836 I think there's always issues when you build a campus. Do you duplicate or 02:07:11.869 --> 02:07:15.786 do you develop new programs? And I think there's always issues of 02:07:15.819 --> 02:07:19.925 duplicating. I think they duplicated fine arts. I think they made some 02:07:19.958 --> 02:07:23.237 changes in business. But then you always have, do they have an MB A? Do 02:07:23.270 --> 02:07:27.937 they have this? Your competition then begins to grow and then you have 02:07:27.970 --> 02:07:32.015 turf battles from one campus versus the other as to, well, that's their 02:07:32.048 --> 02:07:36.036 reputation. This is our reputation and we don't want it impacted. So I 02:07:36.069 --> 02:07:41.226 think it's difficult. It had its own accreditation that was handled early 02:07:41.259 --> 02:07:45.206 on and I'm not sure that that was the best thing to do. It was, it may 02:07:45.239 --> 02:07:49.845 have been the best decision, but it was probably good to keep them all 02:07:49.878 --> 02:07:56.416 under the one ASU responsibility of the Tempe campus and nurture the 02:07:56.449 --> 02:08:00.675 growth of those programs. The same with now Michael calls it the 02:08:00.708 --> 02:08:05.366 polytechnic. 02:08:05.399 --> 02:08:12.006 I was involved in helping find dollars for that and they're still doing 02:08:12.039 --> 02:08:16.006 finding dollars. But that was the old Willie Air Force Base. My only real 02:08:16.039 --> 02:08:20.635 tie to Willie is that I spent my last month in the Air Force there driving 02:08:20.668 --> 02:08:26.737 to work here and I was living at Williams Air Force Base and it was, I 02:08:26.770 --> 02:08:30.647 have good memories of that experience and that was great for the 02:08:30.680 --> 02:08:35.796 university to have it because it became a nice tie. But those were areas 02:08:35.829 --> 02:08:42.055 uh campuses I was tangentially involved with and really uh only was 02:08:42.088 --> 02:08:46.366 involved in helping to raise money to make some things happen. What about 02:08:46.399 --> 02:08:53.116 downtown? I know the big camp is yet to be, but I wasn't involved in the 02:08:53.149 --> 02:08:55.777 mercado 02:08:55.810 --> 02:09:01.286 except over the fact that the individual who managed the foundation's 02:09:01.319 --> 02:09:09.319 accounts was also the trustee of the Mercado and that it was so he and I 02:09:10.529 --> 02:09:14.626 had numerous discussions and we talked about there was a chance to buy 02:09:14.659 --> 02:09:20.246 that property for about 3.8 to $4 million. Unfortunately, the university 02:09:20.279 --> 02:09:24.406 decided not to buy it at the time. So two years later, they paid $8 02:09:24.439 --> 02:09:31.265 million to buy it because that was something that was built by Symington 02:09:31.298 --> 02:09:35.717 and maybe Hirsch, I think, may have had a role in that. Just maybe 02:09:35.750 --> 02:09:41.095 Symington and Governor Simonton at the time. And, but a pension fund had 02:09:41.128 --> 02:09:47.576 really put most of the money in and because it was not doing well, the 02:09:47.609 --> 02:09:50.845 pension fund took it back, actually took control of it. And the trustee 02:09:50.878 --> 02:09:56.656 for that pension fund was our financial advisor for the assets of the 02:09:56.689 --> 02:10:00.237 foundation. And I thought we had a good way to work it through and it was 02:10:00.270 --> 02:10:05.437 , it may have worked, but they decided at that time that they didn't want 02:10:05.470 --> 02:10:08.826 it. And then a couple years later, I think they saw the vision of how 02:10:08.859 --> 02:10:12.027 important it could be downtown. 02:10:12.060 --> 02:10:20.060 So they purchased it. What about the research? The research park was 02:10:20.659 --> 02:10:25.916 actually part gift and part purchased by the foundation of some of its 02:10:25.949 --> 02:10:29.555 assets early on, I don't know the year because the foundation was founded 02:10:29.588 --> 02:10:36.696 in 45. So I think it was probably early 50 when it had the research park 02:10:36.729 --> 02:10:39.817 and it sat there for a long time. Actually, the university ran it as a 02:10:39.850 --> 02:10:45.616 farm for a while. It was known as its farm. I think some individuals when 02:10:45.649 --> 02:10:48.397 they finished their jobs at A U and were moved out, were moved to the farm 02:10:48.430 --> 02:10:54.635 , worked out there for a while. But the fact is it was given to the 02:10:54.668 --> 02:10:58.607 foundation and then the foundation at that time, what it usually did is 02:10:58.640 --> 02:11:02.237 after it received the gift, it would give it to the university. And the 02:11:02.270 --> 02:11:07.357 university over time decided to build a research park 02:11:07.390 --> 02:11:15.390 and it took a long time, it was being built with a style. I think that got 02:11:15.699 --> 02:11:18.777 it going, but probably wasn't as successful. And I think the university 02:11:18.810 --> 02:11:22.296 had to put a lot of money into that to keep it going. I think it's 02:11:22.329 --> 02:11:27.046 probably breaking even today, but it's going to take a large number of 02:11:27.079 --> 02:11:30.317 years for it to ever pay back what the university put into it. But the 02:11:30.350 --> 02:11:36.555 university, I think in some ways has nurtured so many of these 02:11:36.588 --> 02:11:42.437 organizations over time that I think they will become more and more 02:11:42.470 --> 02:11:46.076 successful. I think the downtown campus has a chance to be more successful 02:11:46.109 --> 02:11:54.109 , more quickly uh depending upon the speculators in the land that get 02:11:55.918 --> 02:12:01.296 involved. But I think building the Arizona Collaborative Downtown coupled 02:12:01.329 --> 02:12:05.906 with some of the programs, academic programs that will be there. Research 02:12:05.939 --> 02:12:13.836 t maybe a specialized hospital that will be tied up. I think it has a 02:12:13.869 --> 02:12:19.217 great chance for success. I do believe it's not going to happen as fast as 02:12:19.250 --> 02:12:22.237 they would like. And part of the reason is I've talked to a number of 02:12:22.270 --> 02:12:25.857 parents who say, you know, do I want to send my son or daughter downtown 02:12:25.890 --> 02:12:30.296 to live downtown until it's fully developed. Well, they will because of 02:12:30.329 --> 02:12:34.256 the programs, but it will happen more quickly than the research park or 02:12:34.289 --> 02:12:37.956 even the A SU foundation as far as growing and developing, but it won't 02:12:37.989 --> 02:12:41.536 happen overnight, but it will be successful. And I think it's a good 02:12:41.569 --> 02:12:44.135 decision. 02:12:44.168 --> 02:12:48.006 How does that work with all of these different areas? All looking for 02:12:48.039 --> 02:12:53.256 funds and the foundation? Do you ever find yourself competing against 02:12:53.289 --> 02:12:57.567 yourself? That's one of the real issues that you have to manage. We had 02:12:57.600 --> 02:13:05.376 what was called the MP system, multiple interest prospect system in which 02:13:05.409 --> 02:13:10.175 we would put a primary manager who was responsible for that corporation or 02:13:10.208 --> 02:13:16.095 that family and that individual would work with those, that corporation or 02:13:16.128 --> 02:13:21.876 those, that family and was responsible for making sure that if anybody was 02:13:21.909 --> 02:13:24.796 going to go to him, they would not ask for money. In fact, the 02:13:24.829 --> 02:13:28.305 corporations were the easiest to work with because their corporate 02:13:28.338 --> 02:13:34.717 contribution officers knew that unless it came with an approval slip from 02:13:34.750 --> 02:13:39.217 development that nobody could ask for money. So one of the nice things 02:13:39.250 --> 02:13:43.576 that the administration did early on and they did that at the presidential 02:13:43.609 --> 02:13:48.265 level and the provost level and everybody understand, stood it at the 02:13:48.298 --> 02:13:51.956 Dean's level is that you may go try to ask for money, but you probably 02:13:51.989 --> 02:13:55.756 weren't going to get it and it would have to be approved to do that. Then 02:13:55.789 --> 02:13:59.906 we changed it and said, if it was for $5000 or less. You could do it. Now 02:13:59.939 --> 02:14:06.555 , it's $10,000 or less and maybe 25 next week. But the idea being that 02:14:06.588 --> 02:14:12.305 there was some system in place to ensure that corporations and individuals 02:14:12.338 --> 02:14:16.467 weren't being asked every single day of their life by the same 02:14:16.500 --> 02:14:20.416 organization with different people calling on them. There were people 02:14:20.449 --> 02:14:24.487 calling on him to say thank you and cultivating them but not to ask them 02:14:24.520 --> 02:14:32.520 for money. Interesting. It's complicated. It is. It is. Um OK. Yeah. 02:14:36.048 --> 02:14:39.147 Do you wanna just talk a little bit overall as we kind of try to wrap up 02:14:39.180 --> 02:14:43.467 here about um you say you didn't ever come here thinking you'd spend your 02:14:43.500 --> 02:14:48.226 life in, at a Su or in Arizona? What, what made the difference? I think it 02:14:48.259 --> 02:14:53.107 was the people, I think it was the people and the jobs, you know, the 02:14:53.140 --> 02:14:57.326 people that I started with in the college of business are still my friends 02:14:57.359 --> 02:15:01.027 to this day. They know that if they ever called me and said I need you, I 02:15:01.060 --> 02:15:05.626 wouldn't say well, why I'd just be there, but they would be the same way 02:15:05.659 --> 02:15:10.487 to me. So it's always been the people and the challenge of the position 02:15:10.520 --> 02:15:15.015 that you held to try to do something better and to make it special. As I 02:15:15.048 --> 02:15:19.326 said, I've only looked at two different positions in my life since I've 02:15:19.359 --> 02:15:24.006 been here. One was Wisconsin, the other was the presidency at the 02:15:24.039 --> 02:15:29.567 University of Alabama. And 02:15:29.600 --> 02:15:33.107 those are the only things I looked at and I decided that I didn't want to 02:15:33.140 --> 02:15:36.796 live in Alabama ever again and not that there was anything wrong with it. 02:15:36.829 --> 02:15:41.746 It just, I didn't want to live in Alabama and that I didn't want to start 02:15:41.779 --> 02:15:46.166 over. And Wisconsin, Wisconsin was the one that had the strongest pull for 02:15:46.199 --> 02:15:50.095 me because I had such great memories of trying to mature. But in our 02:15:50.128 --> 02:15:54.067 family, the males never mature until they're over 50. So it doesn't make 02:15:54.100 --> 02:15:56.906 much difference. 02:15:56.939 --> 02:16:02.647 But the fact is that this is a very special place. And I can say truly 02:16:02.680 --> 02:16:07.467 that I love the place and that I cherish my memories and I cherish my 02:16:07.500 --> 02:16:13.996 friends. And as I said, I may change a few days but I never change what's 02:16:14.029 --> 02:16:18.015 happened. And how blessed I've been here. Did you ever think that Arizona 02:16:18.048 --> 02:16:24.737 would grow the way it has? I didn't, I knew it was growing but I used to 02:16:24.770 --> 02:16:29.206 jog on where us 60 is. Now. That was an open field and there was nothing 02:16:29.239 --> 02:16:36.125 beyond baseline. But we used to jog and, and uh you could get to the 02:16:36.158 --> 02:16:40.496 office. I mean, on Saturday mornings, if we would come and sometimes when 02:16:40.529 --> 02:16:45.336 you work in the dean's office, you'd meet Elmer or whatever we do in the 02:16:45.369 --> 02:16:49.134 morning or some faculty members. And, you know, I could probably get to 02:16:49.167 --> 02:16:54.467 the office in about you know, eight or nine minutes and never, never 02:16:54.500 --> 02:16:57.456 stopped for a light. You have lights there. But they were, you know, it 02:16:57.489 --> 02:17:03.190 was difficult but you were always easy. It was always easy to get there. 02:17:06.769 --> 02:17:08.769 Something I was gonna ask you and then it just flew right out of my head. 02:17:10.588 --> 02:17:13.926 Uh One of the things I always like to ask everybody is what advice you 02:17:13.959 --> 02:17:20.407 give to young people who are trying to choose the college or a career. Um 02:17:20.440 --> 02:17:27.896 I think my advice is that wherever you go and especially if you come to 02:17:27.929 --> 02:17:32.816 this place, like I have, I think too often we've been mentored by our own. 02:17:32.849 --> 02:17:37.157 If we're a faculty member, we've been mentored by our own professors. I 02:17:37.190 --> 02:17:41.346 think it's good to be mentored by individuals that have been at a place a 02:17:41.379 --> 02:17:47.416 long time to spend some time with those faculty or spend some time with 02:17:47.449 --> 02:17:53.666 those staff to get the real feel for the place and how you develop your 02:17:53.699 --> 02:17:57.045 own relationship 02:17:57.078 --> 02:18:02.657 with it. I think that 02:18:02.690 --> 02:18:06.355 I've been, as I said, blessed because I've had so many mentors in this 02:18:06.388 --> 02:18:13.355 place, from faculty to administrators who give you some insights that you 02:18:13.388 --> 02:18:18.717 probably don't have at any particular time. And as I said, I've gone from 02:18:18.750 --> 02:18:23.055 a job that I was going to leave in about three or four years to something 02:18:23.088 --> 02:18:29.786 that I feel strongly about that I love it. And I've had some experiences 02:18:29.819 --> 02:18:35.296 in fundraising that change what I do in fundraising from, 02:18:35.329 --> 02:18:40.275 from a job to a passion. And maybe it's why I feel so strongly about 02:18:40.308 --> 02:18:45.816 people. I did a consulting job back in 1981. 02:18:45.849 --> 02:18:50.096 82 it was 82 after I'd just taken this job with New Orleans Children's 02:18:50.129 --> 02:18:54.286 Hospital and, you know, a consulting job to pick up a little extra money. 02:18:54.319 --> 02:18:59.496 Thanks to pages 48,000 versus 46 that I had been receiving a business. I 02:18:59.529 --> 02:19:03.355 went to New Orleans Children's Hospital and they had given me information 02:19:03.388 --> 02:19:09.015 about what they had and what, you know, to help design a campaign for him 02:19:09.048 --> 02:19:12.694 and frame it for him. And I went in the morning on a Friday morning. I'll 02:19:12.727 --> 02:19:19.157 never forget as long as I live and took the tour of the hospital and it 02:19:19.190 --> 02:19:25.337 was their specialty was dystrophy and cancer for Children. And I remember 02:19:25.370 --> 02:19:30.076 going through that tour and having to go back to the hotel at noon because 02:19:30.109 --> 02:19:34.045 I was so sick. I had never seen Children in all different stages and 02:19:34.078 --> 02:19:39.135 states of dying in my life. And I vow that whatever I do development wise 02:19:39.168 --> 02:19:44.545 , it would never be a job. It would be a commitment for my life, 02:19:44.578 --> 02:19:48.025 passionate wise that this is what I would do and I would do it to the best 02:19:48.058 --> 02:19:53.875 of my ability and you make changes so you change the quality of life for 02:19:53.908 --> 02:20:00.814 somebody that's, you know, that's why you do this. So that experience 02:20:00.847 --> 02:20:07.055 really changed how I looked at my position. And I think my wife who's a 02:20:07.088 --> 02:20:11.275 student here and been going since 1978 here, got her undergraduate here, 02:20:11.308 --> 02:20:16.016 received her masters here and now her doctorate here, she feels the same 02:20:16.049 --> 02:20:21.376 way about the place. And you know, the nice thing that I find is that even 02:20:21.409 --> 02:20:25.296 though my primary experience was with business and even though I worked 02:20:25.329 --> 02:20:30.605 with deans all around the campus, her experience has been with a faculty 02:20:30.638 --> 02:20:36.796 and her programs and she's had that same positive experience that faculty 02:20:36.829 --> 02:20:41.896 have really been wonderful to her. And she now has a chance by maybe next 02:20:41.929 --> 02:20:46.626 December or next spring, but maybe by December to finish her dissertation 02:20:46.659 --> 02:20:50.616 and her doctorate. And it's because people cared about her and have been 02:20:50.649 --> 02:20:54.986 willing to go that extra step, 02:20:55.019 --> 02:20:59.286 talking about changes too, the whole field of fundraising and development 02:20:59.319 --> 02:21:03.805 has changed dramatically. 02:21:03.838 --> 02:21:09.635 I think one of the things that I learned and I knew wasn't going to work 02:21:09.668 --> 02:21:14.676 for us. And thank goodness for people of us C and Stanford and all of the 02:21:14.709 --> 02:21:18.747 private schools is that people didn't have the love for this place because 02:21:18.780 --> 02:21:26.525 they didn't spend as much time here as others did. And so we had to build 02:21:26.558 --> 02:21:32.717 a cadre of relationships and people that were as committed to this place 02:21:32.750 --> 02:21:36.866 that were friends of the university outside as we had people committed 02:21:36.899 --> 02:21:41.667 inside. And that has really made a difference. And now as we build more 02:21:41.700 --> 02:21:46.605 and more dorms on this campus, and students will begin to have that four 02:21:46.638 --> 02:21:49.837 year experience of living on campus, they will begin to have those 02:21:49.870 --> 02:21:57.176 experiences. But fundraising has much more, still an art and knowing when 02:21:57.209 --> 02:22:04.667 to ask, but much more of a science in knowing who has the money. Because 02:22:04.700 --> 02:22:10.706 today you can screen your donor base or prospects and you know, the 02:22:10.739 --> 02:22:14.305 average income of where somebody lives, you know, if they've made any 02:22:14.338 --> 02:22:19.876 stock investment, how much they've made over a particular year or years. 02:22:19.909 --> 02:22:24.635 So you begin to know what the value of their property they own is because 02:22:24.668 --> 02:22:28.327 all of those are all public records. So you can screen for that and they 02:22:28.360 --> 02:22:33.747 can put that together in a way in which, you know, that they may have a 02:22:33.780 --> 02:22:40.217 category of 10 categories. You know, that those in one and two are capable 02:22:40.250 --> 02:22:44.626 of making a gift to you. So if you're going to do what we have to do, 02:22:44.659 --> 02:22:49.846 which is face to face, you're going to focus on those ones and twos and 02:22:49.879 --> 02:22:53.986 you're going to start building relationships with the three through the 10 02:22:54.019 --> 02:22:58.046 or whatever and you'll do different ways. You'll do more mass marketing to 02:22:58.079 --> 02:23:04.435 the three through 10 or 5 to 10 and you'll do more selective tailored 02:23:04.468 --> 02:23:08.077 information to the three through five and then one and two, you're going 02:23:08.110 --> 02:23:11.126 to see them, you're going to visit them, you're going to spend time with 02:23:11.159 --> 02:23:15.956 them and you're going to then be able to take them to what we call the 02:23:15.989 --> 02:23:20.717 development readiness pipeline of introduction of getting to know them, 02:23:20.750 --> 02:23:24.827 gathering information, cultivating them, whether it's intensive or 02:23:24.860 --> 02:23:29.626 extensive. And then when you get to the concept discussion of asking them 02:23:29.659 --> 02:23:33.036 for a gift, you'll know and you can only know by sitting there working 02:23:33.069 --> 02:23:37.337 with them most of the time when you're asking for a large gift, they'll 02:23:37.370 --> 02:23:41.366 tell you they're ready to give to it. You nudge them all the time. You'll 02:23:41.399 --> 02:23:45.116 do some test closes and things like that and you'll keep nudging, but 02:23:45.149 --> 02:23:50.635 they'll tell you when they're ready and then when you do, they ask and 02:23:50.668 --> 02:23:55.305 then it's a matter of recognition and the follow up and then staying with 02:23:55.338 --> 02:24:00.046 them because usually the first gift is not the last gift. The first gift 02:24:00.079 --> 02:24:03.907 is the first gift or the second gift or whatever, but you want to work 02:24:03.940 --> 02:24:09.605 with them and keep them involved. It costs anywhere from 6 to 8 times more 02:24:09.638 --> 02:24:17.025 to acquire a new donor as it does to keep a donor. So, so retention is 02:24:17.058 --> 02:24:20.885 important and if you do something stupid down the road and lose somebody 02:24:20.918 --> 02:24:26.305 by saying something, then donor recovery is important. So in a sense, 02:24:26.338 --> 02:24:31.467 you're trying to expand the number of prospects and donors that you have 02:24:31.500 --> 02:24:36.385 while keeping those that you've had. And that's why you need more and more 02:24:36.418 --> 02:24:42.376 staff and that's why I'm a strong believer that the primary, it's a 02:24:42.409 --> 02:24:46.616 relationship, fundraising orientation and that you do that face to face. 02:24:46.649 --> 02:24:52.376 And it's your best characteristic as an active listener, 02:24:52.409 --> 02:24:56.907 the whole field of fundraising, though you can get degrees in it now. And 02:24:56.940 --> 02:25:01.066 there's professional organizations that didn't exist. 02:25:01.099 --> 02:25:04.805 No, it really didn't. Although they had case at the time and case did some 02:25:04.838 --> 02:25:09.337 , had some programs. But they really, I found case to be for those that 02:25:09.370 --> 02:25:14.046 were when you were a neophyte or, or really 02:25:14.079 --> 02:25:20.775 case council for the council for the Sociation and support of education. 02:25:20.808 --> 02:25:23.366 Uh 02:25:23.399 --> 02:25:30.366 And it was OK. And now you have the association of governing boards that 02:25:30.399 --> 02:25:38.399 does special things and also helps develop. You also have, 02:25:39.250 --> 02:25:42.157 let's see, you've got 02:25:42.190 --> 02:25:46.855 a FP used to be NSF National Association of Fundraising Executives. Now is 02:25:46.888 --> 02:25:51.157 an association of fundraising professionals 02:25:51.190 --> 02:25:56.946 and they do programs continuously. So you have an opportunity to grow, but 02:25:56.979 --> 02:26:02.316 you can learn everything you have and pass a test that says you have a 02:26:02.349 --> 02:26:07.926 certificate. But if you've never learned that you're not competing with 02:26:07.959 --> 02:26:11.967 the donor, that you have to be a good listener, that you have to really 02:26:12.000 --> 02:26:16.417 know your organization, that you have to work with these individuals over 02:26:16.450 --> 02:26:22.105 and over and over again. I don't care how much, you know, you're probably 02:26:22.138 --> 02:26:26.616 not going to be successful. And what I tell people when we hire new staff 02:26:26.649 --> 02:26:31.055 is don't expect to be like many of the east coast, universities, private 02:26:31.088 --> 02:26:35.355 or public that have been there. A long time, people don't walk into our 02:26:35.388 --> 02:26:39.635 office and say, I want to give you a gift now that may happen, but you 02:26:39.668 --> 02:26:43.536 should probably pass out or something and say it's a really special time. 02:26:43.569 --> 02:26:48.587 Most of the time you have to search out individuals to seek them, talk to 02:26:48.620 --> 02:26:52.866 them and find out what their interests may be and involve them, find 02:26:52.899 --> 02:26:57.467 programs where they have some love or passion for it. And if you can 02:26:57.500 --> 02:27:02.257 provide that better than any other nonprofit or at least be top of the 02:27:02.290 --> 02:27:07.896 mind, non profit that they want to support, then you can be successful. 02:27:07.929 --> 02:27:14.816 But it certainly has changed. And the time there's thousands more non 02:27:14.849 --> 02:27:21.696 profits, there's a large number of fundraising professionals out there and 02:27:21.729 --> 02:27:24.346 , 02:27:24.379 --> 02:27:28.016 and there's more money to give away. 02:27:28.049 --> 02:27:33.226 But the fact is, it's not always the cause, even though the cause is of 02:27:33.259 --> 02:27:38.025 great importance, it's, if it's facilitated in the right way that those 02:27:38.058 --> 02:27:42.696 organizations will be more successful than others, 02:27:42.729 --> 02:27:50.385 anything you wanted to ask that I didn't ask you. 02:27:50.418 --> 02:27:53.176 I thought, you know, him so well, I thought maybe, you know, something I 02:27:53.209 --> 02:27:57.876 should have asked that only you would know. Yeah, I 02:27:57.909 --> 02:28:02.997 do have one moment of pride and that is the fact that uh my kids were 02:28:03.030 --> 02:28:07.305 raised on this campus and that uh two of them went to school here, 02:28:07.338 --> 02:28:12.706 actually, three attended here. Uh but two graduated from a SU and that one 02:28:12.739 --> 02:28:17.456 of them now is back on the faculty in my own department, the marketing 02:28:17.489 --> 02:28:23.327 department and has just done a wonderful job. I am so proud of her and 02:28:23.360 --> 02:28:28.305 proud of what she's accomplished and how committed she is to the 02:28:28.338 --> 02:28:33.337 department and to the college and the university, she's actively involved 02:28:33.370 --> 02:28:39.327 in the honors college from which she graduated. And she, and she is that 02:28:39.360 --> 02:28:45.907 way because of how she was mentored by faculty she had on this campus. And 02:28:45.940 --> 02:28:50.257 I think she treats her students and junior colleagues the same way and is 02:28:50.290 --> 02:28:54.536 mentored by a great department of colleagues that she has in the 02:28:54.569 --> 02:28:58.986 department of Marketing. 02:28:59.019 --> 02:29:05.846 I hope she's worn out all of those lessons she learned from her dad. 02:29:05.879 --> 02:29:12.967 Her name is Amy Ostrom and she's an associate professor of marketing and 02:29:13.000 --> 02:29:17.016 she is a wonderful teacher and two years ago was the Arizona professor of 02:29:17.049 --> 02:29:25.049 the year in Arizona. And she uh is, is very humble and very committed and 02:29:25.968 --> 02:29:30.926 not only a wonderful daughter, she's getting married in March. I mean, I 02:29:30.959 --> 02:29:35.706 really haven't made, I can't complain about anything I could but nobody 02:29:35.739 --> 02:29:41.555 listened, but it's wonderful. It's wonderful to know that a place you love 02:29:41.588 --> 02:29:47.066 , your family does also 02:29:47.099 --> 02:29:52.016 anything else that I should have asked? No, I 02:29:52.049 --> 02:29:57.805 would like to say that my College of business experience was really 02:29:57.838 --> 02:30:03.706 special and that I learned from Glen Overman. I learned a great deal about 02:30:03.739 --> 02:30:08.105 what I should do and what I should not do. I mean, those are things that 02:30:08.138 --> 02:30:14.376 lessons that are really good. And I, I will say that, uh that experience 02:30:14.409 --> 02:30:19.055 down, down in the dean's office changed my life for the better forever. 02:30:19.088 --> 02:30:24.036 And the one person who did that was Elmer Goody, 02:30:24.069 --> 02:30:31.866 but we need to interview him. Ok. Uh This, we'll wrap it up if that's a 02:30:31.899 --> 02:30:37.019 good closing line. Thank you. Ok. Thank you.