Wanna, uh, identify the tape that today is, uh, what is it Friday,
January 13th. And that's all, what is about 2006. And I'm Pam Stevenson
doing the interview. And our photographer here is Manny Garcia and we're
doing a living history video interview for the, uh, Arizona State
University Retirees Association. And we're at the visitor information
center at a su at rural and Apache. Soon to be torn down. I understand. Um
, and I'd like to have you introduce yourself. Why don't you give us your
full name? I'm Lonnie Ostrom. And, uh, I've been at Arizona State
University for 33 years going on 34
for a lot of people thought it should be or was, but I was actually named
after my mother's pet rabbit. And so it, it was Lonnie and then my mother
is named the rest of the family and it's Lonnie Ronnie, Donnie Bonnie. And
so she still does to this day have a sense of humor, but, you know, we
still deal with it. So, ok, well, that answers one question. Let's get
just a little bit of background. I'd like to get on everybody. Tell me
when you were born and where you were born, I was born October 15th, 1941
in Moline, Illinois was born and raised in the quad city area. Went to the
University of Wisconsin for my bachelor's degree, did my master's at
Southern Illinois and then went to the University of Alabama for my
doctorate in marketing,
a little family background. You told us about your mother. What did your
family, did you live in the city? We actually lived in Silvis, Illinois,
which is just a small little b right next to East Mole and Mole. My father
was a tool and die maker for international harvester. And then he had a
small construction company that he had during the day, he worked at the
international Harvester in the evenings. So he worked two jobs every day
of my life that I can remember. Anyway, I have three brothers and a sister
and one lives in Washington DC. One lives in Kansas City. One lives in ST
Louis and my sister lives at home and has to put up with my mother every
day. So growing up, were you a good student in school? I think I was one
of those to try everything every single day of your life. Try something
different.
I enjoyed sports. So I was actively involved in athletics. I enjoyed
student council and things like that. I enjoyed acting. So I was in plays
and things that I didn't do very well in those but I was involved. I
probably embarrassed a lot of people. But, uh, so I tried to do a variety
of different things and, uh, it wa, it was fun. I had a, I had a childhood
and growing up in which, um, there's not one day I ever felt that I wasn't
loved. I had great parents and, uh, grandmother and, and aunts and uncles.
So I had a, I had a wonderful childhood. Um, did you have any idea as a
child growing up? What you wanted to do? And, you know, I, I didn't really
, um, I thought maybe my dad's small construction company that all of the
boys would take it over down the road and eventually, but unfortunately,
no one took it over. And so everybody, everyone did something else. Did
you always plan to go to college? I did, I was the first in my family to
attend college. So it was important to set a precedent for, for my
brothers and my sister. All of them have gone on to college and all of
them have a graduate degree. So it has been, it's great.
And when you went to college, what were you planning to study? I started
in pre med, which was, I went on a basketball scholarship and played
tennis my first year there and thought I'd be a doctor, a pediatrician.
One of the things I thought I would do and I struggled academically my
first year and probably part of my struggle was my chemistry class. And
unfortunately I had Milk Glick as my freshman chemistry teacher and
is now the Provost at Arizona State University. So we still talk about
those and he indicates that he saved the world from a bad physician. And I
always say that if I'd had a better chemistry teacher, I would have been a
physician and very wealthy today.
So, but I changed the business in the middle of my sore year. And after my
sophomore year, I stayed there and graduated in 1964. So I was on the five
year plan. You say you went there on a sports, I went there on a
basketball scholarship and freshmen weren't eligible. So I didn't play the
first year. I played the next three years and then I coached the freshman
team my fifth year at Wisconsin. And that was a decision point for me that
I realized I did not want to be a basketball coach. I was on the road
recruiting and trying to be a student and all the other things and
coaching the freshman. And it was a great experience for me, but it was
also one that taught me some lessons that I wanted to do something else.
So when you graduated in business in business and did you, what did you do
then? Did you go get a job or? Well, I was an ROTC and so it was, I was
waiting for the Air Force to call me. Well, they said, you know, we have
no position for you. I was to be a second lieutenant. So, if you'd like to
get a graduate degree, uh, please go ahead. Well, I, uh, it was late as
I'd already graduated. So at the last minute I, uh, applied to Southern
Illinois University in Carbondale and went, there was admitted for an MS
in marketing and I completed the Masters in one year and, and that's the
air still wasn't ready to take me. I, I don't know if it was my lack of
skill or whatever it was that at that time. But the fact is they were
interested in holding me for another year. So, uh the marketing chairman
asked me if I'd like to teach. And so I taught that next year and I, I
taught, you know, a number of introductory courses in marketing, a great
learning experience for me. I'm not sure it was for the students. And then
the dean at that time was Bob Hill who then became the president of Chico
State. He asked me if I would become assistant to the Dean in the College
of Business at Southern Illinois. And I did so I wrote all his letters. I
ended up having to, I had my own radio program which was the Southern
Illinois Economic Business bulletin, which, which is a story in and of
itself, uh being on the radio for 15 minutes. Every two or three weeks.
But it was, it was a growing experience for me. And then at the end of
that year, the dean had recommended I consider going on to graduate school
and for a, for a doctorate.
By that time, the Air Force was ready for me. But I applied for an
extension, received the extension and went to Alabama and spent three
years there working on my phd in marketing. And what made you decide to do
that? Why did you write a? Well, I, I looked actually at three schools, I
looked at Pennsylvania, Indiana. And uh and Alabama, uh Bob Hill went to
Alabama. That's the only reason I really looked at that. And I, and he was
a, he was a very good mentor and uh really bright man. Uh and I enjoyed
working for him. Uh
I was getting married in that summer and my wife had a teaching degree.
Indiana would only give me $2000 and could not promise that my wife could
get a teaching job in Bloomington, Pennsylvania offered $2000 and living
in Philadelphia was expensive and at that time, not as expensive as today
, but expensive. So we decided, and we looked at Alabama, I ended up
having a great experience, wonderful faculty. Um and my wife, they, they,
they provided me a $4000 assistantship. My wife had a teaching job in
Tuscaloosa. An interesting time. We didn't realize it at the time, but it
was the first year of integration in this public school system in Alabama.
It was a great learning experience for my wife at that time and
unbelievable learning experience. But in all the things that were you went
through the campus was always sort of a peaceful area where education was
still the primary motivation for everyone there. What year was that? 1966
and I finished in 1969. Why did you decide to get a phd in marketing
rather than just working in marketing? Well, I thought about it quite
often and I, I think I, I would never have gone on if I, if I did not have
the experience of teaching at Southern Illinois, I love the classroom. I
realized I did not have the fundamentals or the knowledge to truly teach
at the college level after having received a master's. And so I felt it
was a good thing to do was to move on and try it. And I loved it. And I
taught at Alabama. I had a great experience in Alabama in teaching. And
then when I left Alabama in 69 or in 69 I went to the Air Force and spent
almost four years in the Air Force with teaching at a graduate logistics
management program in Dayton, Ohio at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. So
it was a wonderful experience there. I learned a great deal almost every
one of the students at that time was older than I was. All of them were
officers from Captain major, Lieutenant colonel and Colonel. So you had to
have a good knowledge base. You had to have quite a bit of humility or
they would provide you that humility. But it was wonderful. I made a large
number of friends and many of them are still friends to this day. So, and
then three of them actually received, received their phd at Arizona State
University, two of them in uh in business and there was two others in
industrial engineering in the College of Engineering. Did you ever think
about going out into the corporate world and working in? I I did um
actually had an offer from Shell in Houston to go there and at the last
minute decided that I'd rather go to ACADEM. And my last two choices were
SMU and as U and the chairman of the marketing department at that time
happened to be a former faculty member at the University of Alabama and I
knew him and that was one of the key factors in my leaving or deciding on
coming to issue. And when did you come to issue in January of 1972?
The decision to come in 1972 there were some variables to it. But, and uh
when I interviewed Dean Overman, Glenn Overman, who was the dean at that
particular time and had indicated that he may be interested in having me
work in the dean's office because I had been in the Air Force, had some
administrative experience in the dean's office prior to that. And so asked
me if I would be interested and I was, and I think that probably was the
deciding factor in my coming to Arizona State University. Were you
thinking of coming out here as a stepping stone or did you plan to be here
all these years? I actually planned on coming out being here three or four
years and maybe moving back to the Midwest, which I think is true of
everybody that I've known who has been on the faculty here. So you come,
not wanting to do you want to enhance your record so that you're prepared
to move on. I thought that working in the dean's office and doing work in
the marketing area would allow me to move on in three or four years. And
actually, it was staying here was truly one of the most unbelievable
experiences that anyone could ever ask for. So I wouldn't trade. There's a
couple of days I would trade, but I certainly wouldn't trade the
experience.
What was your first impression of Arizona when you came out? Well, and you
know, I, I'd only been here one time before and that's when Wisconsin
played the University of Arizona basketball back in 19,
1962
I think. So. That was my only time here. I thought it was almost all
desert and that was my perspective of it. But the individuals that I, that
I had known that had gone to Arizona State University were wonderful
people well prepared. And so it took me a couple of years to adjust to the
fact that I liked brown and didn't look for the rich green grass all the
time. On the other hand, if you put water anywhere, something would grow.
So
it was an easy adjustment, but it was also a wonderful adjustment. I had
wonderful people to work with. Um I think the department that I went into
had uh individuals who were really helpful to me, allowed me to build a
research record. My time downstairs was wonderful. The assistant associate
deans were great mentors Elmer Gooding and Bill, he were great to work
with. We had a lot of fun at that time, the College of Business actually
scheduled its own classrooms. So at the beginning of each semester,
Elmer and I and Bill would spend hours upon hours adjusting classes to fit
classrooms. And that's when the College of Business was growing so rapidly
, we could not, we had more students than we ever thought that we would
really need. And so the orientation at that time was really
great teaching and great service. And then they were beginning to hire
faculty to build a research record. But it was no matter what anyone would
say. When I came here, it was a great teaching place. The college of
business and individuals. The faculty took teaching very seriously. The
dean and social deans and s took teaching seriously and we had some
wonderful students. And later on in my life, I had to know many of those
students who I'd worked with worked with over time what was like 1972
1972 the faculty. While there was some research, it was really, as I said
, a great teaching place. Also, most many of the faculty had experience,
they had worked in business in some shape or form previously. Um And so
from that perspective, you, uh you found that there was an opportunity to
almost do anything you wanted to do, you could build your own record and,
and, and faculty were, would understand it and would support it and the
dean would understand it. Uh We were really very service oriented. Uh We
did everything and anything that was needed to be done in that classroom,
we cleaned tables and chairs. Uh uh we moved things around from classroom
to classroom. Uh when the dean had a uh an alumni event at his home, uh uh
Elmer and I attended bar actually uh for, for the dean at that particular
time. And you know, it initially, you sort of say here I am, I'm tending
bar. What I realized later on in life is tending bar for all those
business alumni. I would get to know them over time. And I asked a lot of
them for money later on in life. So the experience turned out to be good
and we always had a great time. What was your first job title here?
Associate Professor of Marketing and assistant dean in the College of
Business? And my responsibility really was the MB A program. Elmer Gooding
was the assistant dean, then became associate dean and Elmer handled all
of the graduate programs and my primary responsibility was the MB A
program you mentioned that the College of Business was growing. How big,
how big was the university at the time? Well, I'm trying to remember, I
think it was something about 26,000 students at that time. And I, I can't
be accurate on that. I know I was the 103rd faculty member in the College
of Business. I remember that statistic but it grew over time to the
College of Business with about one third of the student credit hours and
it could have been more in the entire university at that time. So the
entire university, it wasn't that big, it was big, but uh it wasn't um we
, the College of Business had not only a day program and the night
programs and every single night, Monday through Thursday night there, the
classrooms are filled and we had some classes and other buildings on
campus, but there was a tremendous demand for business courses.
Where was the college located at that? Well, I would now call it the old
business building, but it's, it's right across from structure one on, I
think that is, hm, lemon or Normal, normal, I think Avenue College College.
And it was only one building and now they have the tower that's next to
it, but there was only one building and we used every ounce of space in
that building
run through. Again. You mentioned you worked with, with Elmer and who was
the, who was the dean at the time? And Glenn Overman was the dean who
ended up being dean for about 25 years. Uh He actually came in six months
after was there DJ Hilker, I think was the founding dean was existed for
six months and then over and Glenn over and came in. Glenn was there for
25 years. The dean was Bill, he at that time and he ran, he sort of did a
variety of things and was Glenn
right hand person for at least the undergraduate program in those areas.
Omer was the assistant dean and then became associate dean and he was
responsible for all the graduate programs in the College of Business. And
John Schlachter was an assistant dean and John was responsible for the
undergraduate program.
Everybody reported to Glenn at that time, I reported to Elmer and to then
Glenn Bill did a variety of things, Bill, he also did the accreditation.
Although when you got to the point of doing the accreditation for the
graduate side Elmer and I did all those statistics and work with that
particular area.
You mentioned that there were some students that you taught that we got to
know later you want to talk about any particular,
well, probably at
that time, I got to know a large number of students when you, we also
advised the non degree and there were a large number of non degree
students who were thinking about coming back to receive a masters. So they
would come in and we would advise them, get them into classes etc. So you
get to know a number of those. But of the students that I taught, probably
the one that, that I remember most and I still have great contact with him
because he has done very well in life as a young man named Scott Wall,
Scott's probably now 4748. But Scott, I had him as an undergraduate in
business and then I also had him in the MB A program is in an advanced
marketing class. Scott left I was his advisor too. So we talked about what
job he would take. He ended up taking one with Hewlett Packard. He spent
two years with Hewlett Packard and then moved back to Chicago, which was
his hometown and started a firm called ASAP Software. And he was one of
the seven middlemen that handled all Microsoft products. So he grew that
business. And after about 10 years,
10 or 12 years, he sold it for about $140 million in cash.
He then has
uh invested in, in businesses over time in Chicago. Uh and now the number
one and number two growth businesses in the, in the state of Illinois are
his, he also is in the top 50 of these two firms in, in growth and in the
country. He's done very, very well. We recruited him to be on the issue,
foundation board. He's on the foundation board. He's received
distinguished alumni award from the College of Business. He's a great
young man. He and his wife, Joanie both met at Arizona State University
and he has two Children. He does most of his work and lives in Chicago but
does have a home here in Phoenix. So some day when the kids are graduated
and he still has parents here. I think he and Joni will move back to the
valley. So Scott and I, we talk off and on and when he comes out, we
usually go to lunch.
Any other students that come to mind?
Oh, not, not the student. Well, I have had a number of them that I don't
know if they were students or they were
if I just met them through the MB A program. But certainly a Bob Hobbs and
a John Bela who have been major donors to the institution,
Steve Evans, who you get to know. But many of those individuals,
the opportunity to meet individuals that I received in the College of
Business was, was wonderful. I mean, we, uh, uh, if I hadn't had the job
in the dean's office and it wasn't really a job, it was an experience. Uh
, and, uh, it, it was a tremendous opportunity and, and the longer you
were there, the, the more wonderful, wonderful, the experience became and
you begin to realize it, you know, it takes a little longer my family to
mature. So for us to realize, hey, this is not a bad place. This is good.
You can have fun here and enjoy it. And the people were nice. I can
honestly say that
I don't think I could have worked with and had, had nicer colleagues in my
life than I've had at Arizona State University. Many are friends. It
doesn't matter if you don't see somebody for six months or a year, you see
them, it still goes back to those relationships you developed over time.
The people were hard working, great work ethic, bright, worked in a sense
and produced good work. But they were nice people, people were important
to him. Relationships were important to him. And to me that's what life is
all about. You can do all of these different things in life that you want
to do. But friendships and relationships
dominate what the memories are that you carry with you. Why don't you talk
a little bit about how your career progressed from the time you came here.
Well, I, I came here thinking I knew something. I think all young phds
who have taught and different experiences think they know more than they
really do.
But I came in as an assistant dean and associate professor of marketing.
Initially, it was difficult because you put in long hours. I mean, you
worked on Saturdays here in the dean's office. You, you work until you got
to work the job done. So that meant you worked at night when you know that
when you know, every custodian in the, in the building and you can talk to
them and they can talk to you and you know, their life and they know your
life, you're thinking, you know, maybe I'm spending a little bit too much
time in the office, but we all did and we all enjoyed it. I had a great,
as I said, I had a wonderful experience there, but I was able to move
forward and be promoted and thank goodness to my colleagues in the
marketing department. We did a great deal of collaboration.
We wrote a number of articles together and did our research together. So
they helped me
become a full professor. I think that was in 1978 78 or 79. I became an
associate dean in 81
and I think Glenn Overman had stepped down at that time, Bill R was
interim dean Elmer Gooding had moved across the street to be one of the
assistant or the Associate Provost. So the team that had been together for
quite a while had broken up a bit. I had been doing some consulting with
non profits
in the valley and a little bit around the country at that time. And so I
hadn't looked to leave one day. I was in my office and Russ Nelson was the
new president and he called and said, could you come over and see me? And
he and Paige Mulholland were there? And Paige was Russ Nelson was the
president. Paige was the executive vice president. And I think maybe Elmer
had moved up to be provost acting provost. At that time, I went over to
talk to Paige and Russ and they said, you know, we know you've been doing
consulting and nonprofits and advising on raising money for a while. Uh,
would you consider taking our job as Director of Development and president
of the foundation at ASU? And I thought, you know, I had no time to think
of it. I didn't even have an idea that this was in front of me. And I said
, well, how long do I have to think about it? And they said 8 a.m.
tomorrow morning and this was something like about nine or 10 in the
morning. And so I went back, talked and sat down and talked to Bill R a
bit about his thoughts. I went home and talked to my wife and we talked a
little bit about it because I really didn't know what to expect.
I, we knew that there had not been much money raised by the university,
but I didn't know, I didn't know if it was supported. I didn't know
anything about the staff. Really. Glenn Overman had raised quite a bit of
money in the college of business for rooms, the rooms were great to teach
in and things like that. But there was no real relationship between the
Deans and the foundation at that particular time. So I decided to do it
and Paige was really sort of a hard nosed individual. And, um, so they
told the individual the day before and then on Friday of that week, this
was a Wednesday on Friday, I met with Paige and Carl Miller who was, who
had this position and they took us into one room and there was a staff of
a total staff of 11 people including the president of the foundation. So
10 and myself and Paige Mulholland and Carl sat in this room and I thought
it was a little embarrassing to Carl. I felt really badly for Carl. I
thought that it could have been handled different and be a little bit more
sensitive. But what Paige did was I just wanted to know you today that
we're changing. This staff. Carl is stepping down and Lonnie is moving
into his position and he will take over Monday morning. Well, uh later on
after talking to a few of those staff, uh, they were scared to death. Who
is this person coming from this college of business that didn't know them
? They hadn't seen before? In fact, my secretary stayed with me my entire
23 years in the foundation. So she tells me the story that everybody
thought, well, we're going to lose our jobs. This person's coming over,
going to fire everybody. Little did they know that I was more nervous than
they were because they were going to have to educate me and help me move
through, have a greater understanding of the foundation and the raising
the money of what was the process and policies at Arizona State University.
And I think from that perspective, it was fun.
I've always said that when a job or a position no longer is fun, if you
don't enjoy what you're doing, that's the day you say I'm going to do
something different.
So you really didn't know what to expect there or have you really thought
about that position? I didn't, I actually had done my consulting with YM
CS hospitals.
Uh Those are the organ, non profits that I had worked with. And so I
didn't have a good feel for the structure of a, of a campus foundation.
And you know, really most public universities around the country do have
their own foundations, privates do not need them. So I started out on a
learning tour
and I was very fortunate that both private and public institutions in the
PAC 10 and others around the country were very, very helpful to me. And,
you know, I probably borrowed ideas from every single one of them and you
grow as an individual over time. But I've had wonderful mentors. I had
them in the College of Business. I've had them in development and I still
look for mentors because I need all the help I can get. So when you're 64
you're still saying you need to find mentors. I say yes, you do need to
find mentors.
You said there were 10 people in the A SU foundation at that time. Tell me
how big, what did you, what did the foundation do with that? Well, you
know, I am still not sure what they did at that time. I think I would say
they received money, they didn't raise money, they received it. So if
somebody wanted to make a gift to the university, they would call somebody.
So nobody left the office very often. They
did some telephone calling and they did send out brochures on planned
gifts that would receive. They raised anywhere from probably 2.5 to $3
million a year at that particular time. But they were good people. And
there, while there were some very, very good people there, I was really
blessed to have Kay Gamage there. And Kay Kay became one of those mentors.
She knew everybody and so we started on the road. I mean, I was taken to
meet every single one of the board members and she went with me. I met all
of the ceos in the valley that ran the corporation. There weren't a lot of
them at that particular time, but all of them, she knew
she was wonderful.
Oh, she was, uh,
she had great energy every day that I've known. Kay, she had great energy.
She was very bright, very articulate and hard nosed.
We were in an office in Mariposa and in Mariposa, almost everyone was in
cubicles. I was the only one that had an office that the door shut on it.
The others had doors but they were open at the top and every now and then
it would get a little noisy out there. And I, I can remember Kay coming
out of her door and it didn't matter because everybody heard her and she
would yell, shut up and that, that whole office I could have said it 100
times and nobody would have said a thing. I never, it would have not
stopped. She said at one time and everything became quiet, she was
respected. Uh She was fun. She was, if she disagreed with something that
the decision I was making, she would do that nicely. Initially, it would
get a little bit harder as we went on and discussed different types of
decisions. But we had a wonderful relationship. I actually consider her
probably one of my, as I always call her my third mother, I had my mother
, I had my mother in law and I had Kay and a wonderful experience, great
stories I heard. And so many times you'd go to an event or an activity and
you'd hear the stories of Grady or you'd hear the stories of Kay and going
through the name change and things that I didn't have the experience of.
But I heard the stories and it was wonderful. And as I tell individuals, I
think I always enjoyed Arizona State University. I had a great experience
all the time. I think Kay was the one who provided me the love and passion
for Arizona State University. And it was, and I loved her. I mean, I did
and I always will because she influenced me and she loved this place. And
I think, I think too few people uh uh really let people know how important
this place has been to them. And as I always say, you know, presidents
come and go, administrators come and go, but the faculty are here every
single day for many, many years, they don't leave, they love to stay here.
So the the cornerstone of this institution has always been the faculty.
It always will be, it's getting better and better in some ways, but it
will never be better teachers than there were when I started. So we've
always had great teaching a much better research institution today and
being a research one and growing in that area is
special for this institution, uh reputation nationally and internationally.
But they will never have better teaching. They'll have great teaching and
good teaching, but it will never be better than it was when I started at
this place because faculty took that so seriously. And Glenn in the
College of Business didn't let you in a class early. He didn't want you to
do different types of things. So you went into the classroom on time and
you stayed the full class class period. And so you took teaching seriously
and everyone took it seriously and, and we were evaluated every year as to
on the teaching side of the house. So it was important.
You mentioned that you were in Mariposa when you started, what was
Mariposa? What was that like? Where on campus was that Mariposa was
located on Apache right across from the old Indian Tepees that used to be
on Apache. It was a home for graduate students that lived there and some
disabled students that lived, that were on campus and programs lived in
Mariposa,
Mariposa and it had a cafeteria there, etc, which we could go in the back
when we were hungry and we eat lunch. Although most of the time we spent
out of the office downtown in somebody else's office or eating lunch. And
my job, everybody felt was to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner someplace
else and gain weight but get to know people while you're doing it. But
Mariposa was a really interesting place. It was not well taken care of at
the time. So, uh, if there was, if, if it was going to rain, if we going
to rain, you made sure you covered your computers. Uh, so that, because
you had pots sitting all around, usually 78 or 9, 10 of those or whatever
it was in different places where you knew the rain came in. Uh, you, you
knew that because, uh, in this, that especially in the summer when they
closed the cafeteria that your friendly cockroaches were going to join you
on your side every single day. So you never put a cup right side up. It
was always turned down because those that didn't, you would have five or
six cockroaches in your, uh, in your cup at that particular time. It was
really funny. One day, uh, on Monday morning we came in and it had rained
over the weekend. I'd been in on Saturday but didn't know anything. But
Monday morning, when I came to work in the corner of my office
were about eight or nine mushrooms that had grown in my office. And so
they had this r the biggest mistake we ever made was not taking a picture
of them. I remember pulling them out and, and the whole office was in
there. And every day I left most of men. During that day, everybody come
in and laugh about it, etcetera. We called the carpeting. It was Las Vegas
carpeting. It looked like a casino carpeting and there was red and uh
different colors, et cetera. And everybody said, well, I used to come when
I was a student, I'd come here and this was a bar was right in this area.
And I thought, well, maybe we should start serving. We get more people in
there after a while, but it was, it was, it was a place that provided much
enjoying in overtime, talking about our experiences there. There was also
an opportunity for our staff to become very close. There were no
development officers and units, they were all in Mariposa and we didn't
start hiring unit development people until 1983. And then we started with
business and engineering at that particular time, but everybody was in the
same office, same place. Sounds like quite a place. It was, it was quite a
place. How did the development end up over there there? You know, I really
don't know. I've heard Kay's story and Troy Crowder who was the assistant
to John Schwa and then also worked for Russ Nelson for a number of years
that
they were over in administration. They needed the room over there. And so
they ended up, they wanted to do some more significant fundraising. So
they moved him over there,
but there wasn't much room after I came here, we actually built more
offices, so we'd have room for a growing staff and our budget for entire
development was less than $600,000. And that included all the salaries at
the time. And
when I stepped down from the foundation in on December 31 the budget was
14 million. So that's a significant difference and, and budget and people.
Yeah. Uh we'll kind of run through that a little bit, But you mentioned
initially that when you came there, they weren't raising money, they were
receiving money. What's the difference? Well, I think building a
comprehensive fundraising program where you, you are out building
relationships, uh, educating the community on the priorities of the
institution, its vision where it is where it's going and that private
support can be the difference between an average institution and a very
good institution or a great institution. We were significantly behind in
raising money of some of the east coast schools, Midwest schools that had
for a long time
raising money and actually had a couple of campaigns under their belt. We
were still in some ways considered a commuter school. We had a lot of
students that came at night parking. Initially when I went into the
College of Business was $5 and we call it a hunting license to find a
place to park and sometimes you would come very early in the morning to
make sure you could park. So, uh it, it, it it was, it was a different,
different place at that time
when you took it over. Were there plans to change that is that you were
put in charge? I think that's what Russ Nelson and Paige expected was to
build a comprehensive program. I think Carl Miller knowledge wise had very
good knowledge, probably had a better knowledge base than I did. He'd
worked in Seattle before and came to a issue and was there for 10 years,
but there wasn't great support for development. I had taken a look at some
of the recommendations he had made and they had never been supported. So I
had the benefit of Russ Nelson who had come from Colorado and had been
involved previously in development and fundraising, who wanted to build a
total program. So I put together my first initial budget or two and
most of it, they would get chopped here and there because when you take a
look at development in the institution, typically you're the residual,
you're still your primary responsibilities are teaching and research and
some service. So development is there and you have to prove that you're
worthy of the use of those dollars.
And so it was actually interesting over time that Elmer and I who had
worked together, Elmer was involved in approving my budget. So Elmer and I
would discuss those and we would agree to disagree at particular times,
but it was a fun experience. We hired some very good people. We began to
put people into the, we became what I consider a major gift program. We
knew that if we were going to solicit
our alumni, that many of them did not feel they had a great experience.
They received an education here, a good education, but many of them also
received parking tickets and struggles to, they'd stand outside in the sun
to register their long lines, long lines to get a parking decal all of the
things that eat at a student over time. And so when we would ask them for
dollars, not all of them were really sensitive to the fact that they
should give money back. I'm still paying off my loan. They work, many of
them took 678 years to graduate, they borrowed money. They were working a
couple of jobs, the students that probably are successful in life because
they had a work ethic and they had to work their way through and
appreciate it. But they were not the students that had the traditional
university experience that lived on campus that had those great memories
of being able to do things because they had parents that supported them on
campus. So we decided that the most important thing for us to do is build
a major gift program, build relationships. And many of the individuals did
not have an experience at Arizona State University. They were interested
in the university as it was developing what it meant for the valley and
what it meant for the state. But it was not in the same category as the U
of A, it was that was considered sort of the wealthy school for people to
go to. And as was the commuter school. But the nice thing that I learned
from much of the help of Kay Gamage was that many of the individuals who
lived in Phoenix cared about.
And it was an experience where over time, I can tell you today, my 1st
$5000 gifts and my 1st $10,000 gifts that we received that I asked for and
we received. And to me, it didn't matter over time whether it was a
million or 2 million or 50 million. The fact is the experience and the
process is still the same. It's working with people, people that you can
who like the university have a vision for it as well as you have a vision
for it and want their vision and your vision to match and are willing to
give you some dollars to make that happen, to give a piece of their wealth.
And so over time, the numbers have expanded significantly and I would say
we're on our way to being one of those institutions where fundraising and
development will continue to be very important. It certainly seems that
way today, but you talked about that originally, you were receiving and
not raising money. Is that a different thing you have to learn to go out
and ask for money. Is that part of what you did? That? Well, asking is
part of the key of raising money receiving. It is, well, we have some
needs and to me it's not just your needs, it's what's the need of the
community. What do they perceive is important? So instead of waiting for
somebody to say, I'm going to send them some money or could they use some
money? You actually are out there telling them about this institution
talking about what it costs to do different things, what will happen, what
will be the outcomes if this vision is implemented? And so you're out
there building the relationships, convincing them that Arizona State is a
worthy recipient of their dollars. But at the same time as you're working
with them, you become a great listener, a great listener, a listener in
that they're telling you what's important to them. And the more you listen
, the more you work to find the match between the donor or the prospect
and the institution and that's the success. So you build a staff where
most of your individuals that are major gift fundraisers are doing that.
They're listening, not talking about the institution, listening to the
donors and then finding the right match.
Well, talk a little bit about how you grew the staff um and, and the
budget of course, to pay that staff. How did that come about? Well,
and as I said it was a process where you were always trying to be
aggressive and ambitious.
You uh uh the, the budget grew, grew actually pretty quickly to a couple
of million dollars. Uh Russ Nelson wanted to do a campaign and we decided
that we would do a campaign from 83 to 88. That it would be initially,
they talked about a $50 million campaign. This goal became $75 million.
And so we said, ok, how are we going to do this? We recruited Bob Bulla
who worked initially for the newspapers and then Valley Bank and then Blue
Cross Blue Shield where he was the chairman and CEO, he became our chair.
We hired staff, not only in the foundation but the university paid for
that. The foundation was too small. Its assets when I started were about
1.7 million in assets and only 400,000 of that was cash. So it was small.
So really the university is the one who funded the building of the
fundraising program, built the growth of the foundation. Uh We put uh
there were new deans in both engineering and in business. Bill Seman had
taken over. Bill was the dean there and I can't quite remember who was the
dean of engineering. It changed right after um at that time. So I I, yeah
, yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right.
Roland Hayden who was here for a number of years and Roland Roland
actually through the engineering excellence program, beginning in 79 began
to do some work to really with, with the central administration to do some
work to, to build engineering in the university. So he had some ties out
there. And so with engineering and with business and some athletics, we
began to be pretty aggressive there. The goal as I said was 75 million, we
ended up raising about $114 million but it was really focused on about
three or four colleges and didn't help the entire institution. But it was
a step in the right direction.
The deans at that time, except for Roland and maybe Bill Seaman were not
used to going out and cultivating relationships. Most of them stayed on
campus.
The advantage for the college business was that Glenn Overman himself or
personally had done that for many years. So there had been some acceptance
of Bill Seaman coming in. Bill was very good in the community. I'm not
sure what he did inside the College of Business at that time, but he
certainly did a good job in the external community. So that campaign
allowed us to build our staff. It allowed us to have a comprehensive
program even though it was dominated by major gifts of really building
relationships and working face to face with corporations and individuals.
Oh, you mentioned the foundation and their assets and how the UN why would
you explain the difference between the foundation and the university. Well
, the foundation is a separate 501 c three. And uh depending
on how uh the university operates, it can be completely separate. They run
on a continuum of completely separate or closely tied and some almost as a
subsidiary of the university. Uh There are some institutions like
Wisconsin and uh Wisconsin Iowa that are really pure foundations in which
their board, they give, their assets are totally in support of the
university, but their board is completely separate. There are no
university people on those boards and they run their own organization.
We were a little bit different and that we were more closely tied to the
university. And I think part of it was that when I went over there, they
had been really, they didn't have an operation unless the university
provided funds for them. And then when I was there, it was the same basic
thing only I was closely tied to the university. I cared about the
university and the funding really came from the university. So over time
now it has grown where its budget has grown significantly. And when I left
, it was 14, I hear the budget now is probably 18 to $20 million in just a
year, at least $18 million. And they have,
and probably half of that is university and half of it is foundation's
money. The assets have grown to over 450 to $500 million. But it is still
very close to the university. When Laddie came in, Laddie wanted to keep
the foundation close to the institution. And Michael Crow, President Crow
has also made sure that the foundation is closely tied to the university.
And I think those are all positive
for Arizona State University and for the foundation because while it needs
to grow, it also has to make sure it's completely in line with the vision
of the institution and that it stays that way. One of the things you've
mentioned, a couple of the presidents that you worked under, why don't you
talk about the different presidents that you've known here? I started
under Russ Nelson in 1982
in January of 1982 and worked for Russ for 9.5, 10 years before that I was
here. I left the College of Business in 82. I'd been John Schwa was the
first president and John, you know, we didn't know John very, you know, we
really lived in the College of Business and while you were on university
wide committees,
John
President did things with the legislature, but we didn't see him very
often. Maybe when we had the initial faculty breakfast, we'd go and listen
to him, but that's all he wasn't visible to me as a faculty member. And it
may be that I was trying to get so many things done, trying to be promoted
and trying to do your job that you just didn't spend much time thinking
about the president of the university at that particular time because we
were busy. And I think while the president had a significant role in the
institution in administering it, you didn't, you weren't impacted by it,
except when it came to budget for the College of Business or it came to
some policies, etc, enough space and things like that. But we worked with
people all over the campus. We worked with Madeleine Wright who was
running the enrollment area, which so we'd go from if we needed rooms,
we'd work with her. But the College of Business actually managed its own
building. But if we needed rooms outside, we'd go to Madeline purchasing.
We'd work with George Morell. It didn't you worked with the people that
impacted your ability to get a job done? So that was that I had never
worked closely with the president before. So when Russ Nelson became
president, I moved across the street, it was my first experience of really
working closely with a president. And Russ was wonderful. I think he's a
very, very nice man and I still talk to him now and then and he's doing
wood work and some things and Bonita is struggling a little bit with some
cancer right now. But the fact is they were very, very nice to me. And in
development, you spend a lot of time with the president because you're
with him at night. You take him to dinners
and introduce them to individuals. And so you're with the president quite
often. It was
an interesting experience for me because I had heard the initial stories
about the U of A and the border regions and from Kay Gamage, who never
hesitated to tell me how it was,
how as never was given a fair shake by the regions. So I had those stories
and I went to the regions meetings and I was, I it was so true. I mean, it
was, you'd go to a meeting and the president from the University of
Arizona would make a recommendation or two or three or four and nobody
ever discussed it, it just was passed and then Russ Nelson or page or
somebody else would present a program and they make recommendations or
Elmer or whatever and the regents would question and question and question
and, and uh iii I couldn't believe it and I'll never forget one experience
during that time when Russ Nelson had recommended that uh Bob Weinhauer be
let go as basketball coach and they negotiated a $300,000 buy out of, of
Bob Weinhauer s basketball contract and to hire somebody. Well, there was
a regent at that particular time and a regent that was U of a, there's no
fans or that's about it. Partial owner of the sons that got really livid
with Russ and went after him aggressively and
uh told him that they, that only the regions could negotiate a contract
and get rid of a coach of, you know, they, the president could make the
decision, but the regions had to finalize it. So they really took this
over for us and they ended up costing the university 400,000 rather than
300,000. But it was the story that I had not only heard about, it's the
story I saw over and over and over again. In fact about
that's a little too, too loud. Just OK,
just left. I don't know what it is. Doesn't sound like a siren. We get a
lot of sirens here we've discovered, which is
you were talking about Russ Nelson going to the border regions, right? And
I'll never forget about a week later, we had a corporate contributions
luncheon and that's where we brought all the individuals who were
responsible for giving money away in the corporations in the valley to a
luncheon. And we were on stage. A gam and Russ would talk about what we
accomplished and to thank them for that. And walking back, Russ said, you
know, Lonnie, I'm not sure that I want to stay doing this job. He said,
this is, this is, this is crazy. He said, can you believe what that man,
the way the regions treat us? And I said, no, Russ. And he said, he said,
I have to make a decision. I said, no, you don't have to make a decision.
We are in the middle of a campaign in the middle of this campaign. I
promised you, I would stay and you promised me you would stay. You're
staying until the end of this. So I said, we're not talking about this
again. I said, anytime a president leaves in the middle of a campaign,
it's a difficult situation. And I said, so, you know, we need you here and
I don't know if that had any influence at all. Probably didn't. He was
probably just, you know, working some things through. But, but the fact is
Russ, Russ was
he enjoyed people and there were some that he was not great on athletics.
He didn't have a great knowledge base of athletics. And so there were some
athletic boosters that were not high on Russ's role. On the other hand,
there were some donors like Virginia Piper just loved Russ and Benita
Nelson. She enjoyed them because I think Russ was knowledgeable. He was
kind and he was generous in how he handled things. And he was always a
great listener too. And I think, I think that helped, I'll never forget
one night with a major prospect we were working with. We went to Phoenix's
country Club and we were going to ask this individual for a lead gift.
And still one of the funny times that I remember and this individual was
from a family, a major national corporation, his family founded it and we
were going to ask him for $5 million which was a major ask in the mid 80 s.
So we had dinner and Russ got up and started making the presentation. And
about halfway through it, this individual had a couple, two or three
glasses of wine halfway through it, we hear the snoring, this individual
had gone to sleep
and, and he was single. And so there was, he was the only one there, the
rest of us were sitting there and then, OK, how do we wake this individual
up? How do we get back on track to it? It was one in which Russ kept
talking for a while. And finally, we just stopped and, and we, you know,
we woke the donor up, but that was really the end of that presentation.
But it was, it was, it was one of the funny times that you, you have going
through this. We did but not nearly the amount that we were. Uh we uh we
did receive a decent gift. It wasn't a very large gift, but it was a
decent gift and it didn't, would not fund what we wanted to fund at that
particular time. But, you know, I always say that the gift is the first
step and, and working towards the next gift. So it was a gift and it was
helpful. Do you want to tell us that donor was? No, I really don't.
No, he's died. But his family still, he has a brother who still lives in
Phoenix and is well known. Um You mentioned Virginia Piper. Can't you tell
us a little bit about Virginia? What was she like? Virginia was
one of the grand domes of the valley and philanthropy.
There were three at that time, Thelma Kff Ka Herberger and Virginia Piper.
Now, Virginia had been in the valley for a while and uh her, her first
husband was Paul Galvin, who was the founder of Motorola and we had a lot
of businesses here. Um uh He died and she moved to Phoenix and lived here.
She then married Ken Piper who also worked for Motorola. I met Ken Piper
when I was in the College of Business and one of the faculty members and
myself did a study for Motorola on
Samaritan and its continuous increases in health care costs. And so
Motorola fought that. So I did that and I met Ken Piper and
in probably 7778.
And so then I went in 82 I met Virginia
through KG. Kay had met her only one time, but then I got to know Virginia
much better. I hired a development officer at end of 83 in the College of
Fine Arts, Dayton, Grafman and Dayton and his wife, Laura came here from
Chicago with Virginia.
Laura did some things for Virginia became close friends, worked and still
does to this day at Scottsdale Memorial where Virginia was a tremendous
benefactor of that disgusting memorial hospital. And Dayton worked for us
for about six or seven years. So we had to know Virginia fairly well and
spent a lot of time with her and she funded the Galman Theater and the
College of Fine Arts.
She was a wonderful lady, very focused on what was important to her. She
wrote the nicest notes. I still to this day have some notes that she wrote
about if we went to dinner or whatever we would do, she would write a note
if you had sent a Christmas card or whatever, and Happy New Year, whatever
it did, she sent you the nicest note she made you feel as if you were the
only person that was important in her life. And there are not many that
can do that, but she was one of those individuals that did that and she
was,
she really enjoyed Arizona State University. She enjoyed Russ Nelson. I
think Russ Nelson was easily her favorite president of all time. And she
would always ask about Russ even after he had stepped down and she would
always send him a Christmas card and things like that. So she's a good
lady, good lady, wonderful benefactor for this entire community. Her
foundation, the trust, the Virginia G Piper Trust is the largest single
foundation or trust in this valley with assets of over $600 million. And
they've funded the creative writing program with a $10 million gift
Arizona State. But they've done things that almost every many of the
nonprofits in this Valley Saint Vincent de Paul Brophy Xavier, you name it
and she's made a major contribution to them. And you mentioned that Russ
Nelson wasn't big on, on athletics, but he, it was, we just interviewed
him. He was very interested in the arts area. Russ was interested in the
arts. Uh And that's, you know, the, the building is named after him and
Bonita. Uh it's not that he wasn't interested in, in, in athletics, it's
that he didn't have a great knowledge of athletics. And so it took him
time to, to uh to, to sort of have an interest and build some knowledge
base. It is interesting to me. I talked to him last week to President
President Nelson and the first thing he talked about, did you see that
football game between UC and Texas? And I'm thinking this isn't the RR I,
he said that's one of the great football games I've ever seen. And he's,
he's evolved and changed over time as to things that interest him, but he
was interested in the arts and he was interested in the humanities and yet
he was a business finance professor. And when he left a su he went to be
the Dean at Colorado School of Business to help get it re accredited and
do some work there. But Russ, Russ was very easy for me to work with and
very enjoyable to work with. I think as I talk about presidents Russ began
to build a strong infrastructure in the institution. I think it was
probably during his time, one of the best, we had strong people in all
positions inside the university and Russ listened to those people. And
although we always used to say to Russ, you have to be the last person in
his office before that final decision is made so that you could have, you
could have some influence on that decision. But I think what Russ did was
build a strong solid infrastructure for the university. That then when
Laddie came in 1991 lady was able to streamline how we registered, how we
did a lot of things. It was very student sensitive. And so the first day
he was here, I remember those long lines were outside and he said that's
going to stop today. So then they had the phone registration they built in
and the freshman experience and just some wonderful opportunities. And at
that time, Elmer was still over there, Christine Wilkinson was director of
admissions. And so I think Christine is probably the only one that's left
in the central administration from when I moved in. She was in missions
and has moved up continuously. But those relationships you build with
those individuals over time make your ability to function in this
institution, not only easier but more enjoyable.
Um Just to wrap up with Russ Nelson, you mentioned the campaign that hired
you for that, that he was thinking of leaving, um, talk a little bit about
that as a major campaign was that the first time that A su had done a
campaign that, well, they had done a campaign, a su had done a campaign to
raise money for the Memorial Union. And I think, uh, Jimmy Crean was
involved and Ed Carson was involved and I think they tried to raise
$400,000. I'm not sure if they raised $400,000 but they raised a
considerable amount of money. It was the first time they'd done a focused
effort on some, on some issue.
The campaign was a comprehensive campaign so it covered the entire
university. And so it was the first time that they had done a
comprehensive campaign. Russ Nelson said, whatever we set the goal as we
need to hit it. He said at Colorado, we failed in their first campaign.
And he said, I don't want to be associated with a second failure. So they
initially wanted to set the goal at 50 Bob Boa and a couple of the other
individuals in the foundation said, let's do 75.
Well, we had some individuals, some Dean said we'll never raise $75
million in five years. And so we ended up doing it. So we actually
surpassed that. And I think that was the,
the baseline for us to move forward. And at that time, 93% of the gifts
came from non alums that tells you a little bit about the relationships we
had built over time and that we were fortunate that this community cared
about Arizona State University and that they were willing to put some of
their wealth up and be supportive of it. But both the corporations and
individuals, there weren't hardly any foundations in Arizona at that
particular time. So it was really corporations and individuals that made
the difference. And was that the one that was called the Centennial
campaign? It was uh it was uh centennial campaign. And
every campaign you start off with about 10 different names and then you
end up with one that you care about and that's the one you end up using.
So and every president does their own campaign. So that was Russ's 83 to
88. And it was, it was one of only two times that I really thought about
leaving.
I was called my Alma mater Wisconsin had called and said, you know, would
you consider interviewing for the job? Bob Renne Baum had founded the
University of Wisconsin Foundation and wanted me to come back. So I went
and interviewed Donna Shalala was president at the University of Wisconsin
at that particular time. So I went and I met with the foundation board and
even though it's separate, Donna actually did interviewing also, I
interviewed five times and they made the offer and then I had to make the
decision was I going to come or not come. The first one I called was Donna
because I really enjoyed her. She's about 4, 10 of such energy and we
walked all over campus and, you know, she doesn't breathe when she talks,
she just talks and it was a great experience and I went back to the old
places that I'd been when I was a student and your pictures on the wall
for the athlete and the athletic department. And you had all of those
things. And so it brings back, it's a very nostalgic experience that you
go through and then you come back and they offered me a lot more money.
They actually offered me $50,000 more than I was making here at the time.
And so I really thought about it, but I talked to my family, my kids were
growing, I had a daughter in high school and one who was just going into
high school and neither one of them, maybe both were in high school at the
time. They really didn't want to leave. And so I stayed and it was a good
decision on my part. And then in 91 laddie came in 90 or 91 lady came in
and we were preparing for our second campaign. One thing we didn't talk
about salaries. Do you remember what your salary was when you came here?
$16,000?
I remember it exactly. Actually, I was offered at SMU 16 5. And so I
talked to Glenn about trying to move it up to 16 5, but that was never
going to happen. So it was 16,000. And I think the experience of having
the opportunity to work in the, the dean's office was really the deciding
factor. I like the department. I like the people. I had one of my former
student assistants at Southern Illinois was on the faculty at SMU. So he's
still to this day, the Associate Dean of the School of Business at SMU.
But I think the opportunity to work in the dean's office at ASU and
meeting
the faculty and the people in the dean's office, it was the deciding
factor. And so it was, it was a good decision and one to, to stay with.
And when um Nelson gave you the new job of the head of the foundation,
what was that salary? Well, I at that time, my 12 month salary in the
College of Business was $46,000 in, in 81. And uh II, I think I made a
tactical mistake because I accepted the job without negotiating the salary.
And Paige said, Lonnie will take care of you. Well, you know Paige saying
we'll take care of you. I learned Paige never takes care of you. Paige
wants you for the, the cheapest price that they could wage or salary that
he could get you for and, or least expensive, let's say. And so I go
across the street and the next thing and so I go to meet with Paige and
Paige said, Lani gonna give you a nice increase. We're gonna give you
48,000. Now, I, I thought 48,000. So the individual now and, and all of us
who were on, on administrative or fiscal uh appointments at that
particular time had, uh we had come on into those positions where if you
left them, you, you, you got, went back, uh took 20% off and you went back
at 80% anyone knew came on got a 33% increase because it was the third
time that they actually used. So the person that replaced me in my
position in the dean's office as associate dean was paid $73,000 and I'm
going ok. Came four years after I did, I take on new responsibilities in
central administration level and I'm getting 48,000 and he's getting 73.
Shouldn't I have just stayed there. No, I shouldn't. There was no doubt
it was a great move and I've been well compensated in this place in my
lifetime. It's just that my expectations did not meet with Page's decision.
So
I think today you compare today with when we were there, salaries are so
significantly higher for selected faculty and administrators that you, you
think there probably needs to be adjustments for faculty who have carried
this place on their back for so many years. And I truly believe that
because
this is a place in transition, but it's a transition where assistant and
associate professors now make significantly more than four professors who
have made the difference in this place. That's one of the, one of the
areas that I think down the road has to be dealt with why they wait till
we all retire. It is kind of a crazy situation. It is, but it's, it's not
atypical from around the country either.
And that's why many people do leave is because they can continue to
ratchet up their salaries at greater greater percentages by moving on. But
it's also the reason why you find less loyalty to institutions today and
more loyalty to the discipline rather than to the institution. And for
many, that's a sad commentary because while your discipline is important,
it's the relationships you make within the institution and the loyalty and
love of the place that make it special. Yeah. Um, it's not just you
probably don't want to be part of it.
Ok. Um Getting back to the transition when, when Russ Nelson left and
Mighty core came in, what was that time period? Um,
when Laddie came in, Laddie had been selected but he wasn't, I think maybe
it was six months before he was going to be here. I, I met with him two or
three times and as you do you always offer your resignation uh to, to the
president, if he would want to bring his own person in and in development
, it's very common in some places that when a new president comes in, the
individual will step down. It's less common in universities where the
foundation is separate, more separate than when it's almost a subsidiary
subsidiary like Wisconsin, the individual that took that job when I did
not take it. Sandy Wilcox is now still in that position at the University
of Wisconsin and probably will retire there. And that's true in about
three or four other places around the country. But so lady, we had a
discussion, he had done some development in Vermont. He had, they had done
a campaign, it was a $60 million campaign in Vermont. They were successful
, but it was, they struggled. I knew one of their senior development
officers, Tom Smith very well who I had met before Laddie even came here
and he said it was a real struggle to raise $60 million in Vermont. So
while they were successful, Laddy and Laddie had been through a campaign
that had not been a large campaign. Um And what you expect you have no,
you really don't have any expectations when a new president comes in
because you're saying, ok, they may want me to go or they may want you to
stay one year and it was so it was up to the president to decide
lady did indicate that he wanted to do a campaign, but it would be a while
and we probably were going to start one sooner. I figured 9394
at the latest. But after the second year, Laddie had his heart attack and
that changed many things, Laddie had really been focused on not only
inside the institution but on the outside the institution doing a lot of
those things after his heart attack, he really did not stay as much
involved inside as he did outside. I think, I think, you know, Russ would
have been known more as an internal president, lady will be known more as
an external president because he built a lot of relationships outside. And
then when he married Elva, he and Elva did many more social things and
actively involved and built themselves into the community. It was very
helpful for that campaign. We still and we are to this day, a major gift
program. And so by the time we got everything up and ready to go for the
next campaign, it was 1995 when we started the campaign for, was that the
title of? I think so. But I think it was the campaign for issue. What
about working with lads? I
think for me, Russ had hired me and so I was actually involved in more
meetings and probably closer with Russ than I was with. Laddie. Laddie
built his own cabinet. It really was made up of the Provost and a couple
of vice presidents and his chief Assistant Ben Forsyth. So Laddie's group
was probably a little smaller. Russ is probably a little more inclusive.
And so
I was not involved in a lot of the issues during lady's time, especially
when Milt then came in. And there was a small group that really ran
internally the institution. So I really did almost entirely external work
. I actually knew what was going on in some areas on the academic side of
the house, but really wasn't involved in the policy areas like I had been
with Russ. So as I said, but Lady did a lot of things externally. We spent
a lot of time out in the evening
and Laddy built relationships with the regions. He went to the legislature
, he did a lot of those types of things externally and he and Elva became
a major social couple in the Phoenix area. I'm going to be interviewing
Lady in the next week or so. Anything special I should be asking him. No,
I think, I think that lady was very important
for building a sensitivity into the institution, for students. And we were
much more student oriented for administrative parts. I don't think he
impacted the teaching side as much, but I think he made the administrative
part a little easier to deal with the freshman experience and things like
that. And, and I don't think Laddie would have been as successful if you
hadn't had Russ Nelson and I don't think Michael Crow would have been as
successful if he didn't have Laddie, because all of those things that were
built by those presidents, the others have maybe enhanced, but there was
some structure there that made it different, made it better. So Laddie was
easy to work with.
Laddie, had more experience in development and like for us, I would draft
comments that I'd like him to make with Laddie. I would put about four
notes and the rest of it, he'd tie together because he was so, you know,
he had his, he had a relationship and a story about everything. So he
would tie all of those together and donors liked him and donors liked Russ
too, but it was easy for Russ. And as I said, he had some special
relationships with, with some of those lady built some of those special
relationships also and still have some of those today. Uh So Laddie, we
started a campaign in 95 which was
$300 million campaign. And after the first year, we were really struggling.
We had tried and tried and the individuals we expected to give the larger
gifts did not do that. So fortunately, we had been working with some
others, other donors and other prospects. And finally, after about a year
that began to move forward. So after the next year, we actually were about
180 million. So in one year, we really made tremendous progress. The
committee that was led by Dick and Dinky Snell and Ed Nadine Carson and
Laddie decided that it would be a good thing that maybe we raise the goal
to 400 million. And, you know, you always sort of become a little nervous
when people start raising the goal on you because you know how much time
it takes and what your staff has to do. And fortunately, we had a great
group of individuals on our staff, wonderful, wonderful people who worked
very hard during the campaign. You expect that you're going to do all your
work during the week, plus Saturday morning and that 50 to 60% of your
staff will be in every Saturday morning. And that's when we would review
where we are, where, where we were, what we're gonna do the next week. Uh
What proposals were, were not completed with et cetera. And then many
times we work Saturday afternoons and come in on Sunday and do those
things. So they never complained. And I used to ask them because many of
them were individuals who could not take, get paid for overtime. They have
to take release time. We never had release time during the campaign. So
they worked, they worked very hard. They were wonderful. And you know, I
don't remember one time that a staff member that worked for me or with me
out of the colleges or units ever said, I cannot come in. I will not do
that because I think you're asking too much of me. I have always felt
blessed that the staff in this institution were so committed to making
this a better place that they were willing to give it their time. Take it
away from their families when they were making $20,000 or $25,000.
And so no matter what you ever made, you felt a bit guilty that these
individuals took their time to make this a better place. And I think many
times they don't get the credit for what they've given and committed to
this place and time and effort and their own passion. And sometimes I
think the faculty and staff have more love for this place than others do.
I think sometimes people think of it as a stepping stone and certainly I
did when I first came here. So I can't criticize those people, but you
learn from the people that are here and the people you work with how
important it is for them. And that's faculty and staff. Those are the long
term individuals.
You want to talk a little bit about how the development office grew from
that time period. It seems like to raise those goals from 75 million to
400 million. Obviously, your staff, we grew in a variety of ways. First,
we grew our staff in key areas. We made sure that we recruited truly good
people. In a number of positions that came out of institutions that had a
lot of experience
that was important. We also recruited good people into the units. So by
the time we started our second campaign in 95 every single unit had their
own development officer. Now they reported they were funded half time by
the deans and half time by development.
The only weakness of that is the fact that deans are always short of staff.
And so instead of using these people for all development, they would be
writing this or writing that and doing those things. And that became an
issue that we had to talk about amongst the deans that we need their time
to be focused on major gift fundraising. And over time, the evolution and
deans coming in the job descriptions now talk about doing development work.
They are much more attuned to playing that role than they were early on.
So we have good staffs in the units,
every college on this campus and every campus has its own development
staff. And I would imagine the downtown one will have its own development
staff over time. But business and engineering, you, you really look at
about maybe three or four places where the majority of dollars will come.
Business, engineering, liberal arts and sciences and athletics will be
your largest gifts now.
And that, that bears out of the 2 $50 million gifts won by Bill Kerry and
the second by Ira Fulton, that those are the two largest gifts at that
time. In fact, as you should be so proud of the fact that there are many
institutions in this country that never had 1 $50 million gift. We now not
only have two, but now we have I a commitment to do 100 million. So he'll
be given 100 giving 158 million dollars, 160 million to this institution.
And he's matching that with BYU. So that's a lot of money to be given to
a university. But it takes more than those large gifts. It takes a lot of
gifts from a lot of people and you can't expect that because of a large
gift that there's going to be enough inspiration by that gift to encourage
other people to give each individual, each corporation, each foundation
has to find its own value system for making a difference in the
institution. And it's our job in the development side to do that. So the
staff group budget grew and I'm not sure what the budget was at that time
, probably five or $6 million.95 dollars is that just for the foundation
that was for all of development. And that's the development in the
much of it was, although the deans did use some of their money also for
funding development,
found it's interesting that the Department of Development initially was
separate and is separate because it's a unit within the institution. So I
was Director of Development, I was also president of the foundation. So
those are two separate units and they acted as one, but they were budgeted
separately and they were budgeted separately because the foundation
initially didn't have much money at all. So Development Department
actually funded everything and over time now it's moved towards probably a
5050 split for the funding. And I think the goal down the road is that the
foundation will be, will be self sustaining and that that's necessary. So
campaigns are the way you develop urgency of the vision for that
institution to individuals and corporations and bring those dollars in
over a time constrained environment and usually those assets then really
help, they help build the asset base. They also
allow you to more quickly fulfill an institution's vision and I know
they're preparing for what they haven't talked about a dollar amount,
although they have of a billion dollar campaign. But, you know, everybody
has to do their own thing and to make it work. So it will be interesting
to watch it. How do you persuade somebody to give you $50 million? Well, I
think first, there has to be an interest in the institution and I'll give
you an example for Bill Kerry. Bill's great grandfather was Samuel
Armstrong, who wrote the initial legislation for Arizona State.
And Bill's family, Jack and Blair Armstrong lived here and their daughters
, Lela and Sam went to a su another daughter, went to a U. So they had
ties here.
You begin to build that relationship. And initially, Bill was tied to the
law school because the building was named after Samuel Armstrong Armstrong
College of Law Building. And so Bill was interested at the same time, he
was serving on the board of Johns Hopkins and he wanted to do a business
school there. John Hopkins, Johns Hopkins has never had one. So they
wouldn't do one. He had offered them, you know, tell me what it would take
to do it and they, they didn't budge. So they did sort of executive
development programs in business but not a a college. So he began to look
at us. He enjoyed Laddie. He got to know Laddie, he got to know a lot of
us over time that we would call on him because he'd given some money to
the College of Law and some significant gifts, not 50 million, but he'd
given some significant six figure gifts to support it. Given another
decent gift, a good gift to the College of Business. So in between Laddie
stepping down and Michael Crow coming, we began to talk about that
relationship that he had with ASU and that he was interested in that gift
of making a gift and naming opportunities around the country. The largest
in business at that time had been 40 million. There were some institutions
undergoing for naming 50 million. They were more common at 3035.
So we spent time talking to Bill. Bill wanted it at a lower amount. So you
just sort of let things go. And by the time Laddie left and Michael came
in and Larry Pendley was the Dean of the College of Business. And so
everybody was meeting and talking and Bill finally said, you know, I'm not
sure I'm willing to do this and we better wait. And so we didn't, we had
some ties with family that we knew here. And they kept saying, well, you
know, I think he's still interested in the College of Business and naming
it, but I'm not sure if he wants to do it. We just said, we will not do it
for less than 50 million. You hold your breath a bit and you cross your
fingers. And so you wait. And so we didn't talk to him for six weeks. And
finally in November, I'm sitting in my office, he gives a call and he said
, Lonnie, are you there? And I said, yes, Bill I me, he said this is Bill
K. I said yes, Bill. What can I do for you? He said, well, I have my
accountant here. I have my attorney here and I have the head of my
foundation here. And he said, can you negotiate this gift? And I said yes.
And he had set some standards that we couldn't change. He would not
change them one of them is the ranking of the College of Business, etc,
that does impact the flow of dollars. We tried and tried and tried to get
that change and we couldn't do it. So there are some hard figures there as
to what are some, what do we have to, the college business has to achieve
? And he said, ok, I'm willing to do 50. And so then we spent the next
hour, hour and 15 minutes going over each segment of the dollars, how much
would come in when it would come in?
We went down to the stationary that comes out what has it has to say. He
wanted his own logo. And I said, you're going to have to negotiate that
with the dean and the president of the university because I'm not getting
into negotiating the logo or what it should be. And, you know, I think
sometimes we get so excited about a gift, we give a little too much that
negotiation phase is really crucial and, and Bill is a wonderful man. He
stays actively involved and he, and he loves the College of Business. And
so that was a great gift. And if we hadn't had that gift and it set that
standard, we never would have had to get a $50 million from Ira Fulton.
Every gift sets a standard and because of that, you can begin to ratchet
up the naming opportunities and all the other units. But the most
important naming you're going to do certainly are business and engineering
and probably liberal arts and sciences because of the size of those, the
budgets of those. And then even buildings you can probably ratchet up what
you would take to name a building. Some institutions around the country
use 51%. But very few of them do that. Private schools do that more than
public schools, public universities, probably because of the cost of
buildings today probably do anywhere from 10% to 15 to 20% max of what
they would take to name a building, construction, construction costs. How
do you answer people who criticize that? You're selling the university by
selling the people used to get buildings are named in honor of someone.
Well, I I think there's a couple of things about that. I, I think the
initial criticism came first and it's been done for a long time. I mean,
if you take a look at Harvard and yeah, they're all named after people and
they all gave money now. Not very much, you know, uh John Harvard only
gave £60 but it's been around a long time and it was known as the first
party school in the country. But after over 350 years, it's no longer
considered a party school. We have not been around that long, excuse me.
But
you find even corporations today involved in the naming and I think
there's more criticism of corporations in the naming because it looks like
a university or college is sort of being bought when individuals do it.
It's less likely. Usually there's a more sentimental reason the quid pro
quo is completely different. Much of it is much emotional and more hard
than it is. So you have the rational part, but you also have the emotional
part that's tied to it and somebody is not going to want to put their name
on something unless they feel strongly about it. And they're going to give
a pretty good share of their wealth today to put their name on something.
So individuals, it's very common. We also find that legislatures are
giving less and less of the percentage of their dollar to universities. So
development that private gift takes on more importance today than it did
in the past. So you're going to see more and more naming, but you need to
receive a dollar amount that allows you to put that money away and use it
down the road. You can't name things for five and $10 million the way we
used to do it. But those set nice precedents. But Bill Carey and Ira
Fulton have set precedents for this institution that will carry on forever.
And I'm a strong believer in organizations today that when you go to name
something, you need to do one of two things. One is you not only need to
generate some dollars for that gift that are going to be used for naming,
but you also need to put money in there that can go for endowment for
maintenance and operations so that you protect the facilities. And because
the legislature is still not providing refurbishment money and to take
care of these buildings etc over time. So when you name something today,
you need to begin to, I think almost separate part of that endowment out
as some are beginning to do that in the east and the Midwest, we have not
done much of it here, but we're going to have to do it. And we're going to
say that money is for maintenance of these facilities or maintenance,
whatever. And we're going to have to do a better job. We've done a nice
job in raising money for scholarships for undergraduates. But one of our
weaknesses here is that some of the most difficult money you can make or
raise is for graduate students and everybody looks at undergraduate
education as a right. And graduate education is a luxury. And so they're
more willing to support students that do not have the funds to go to
college at an undergraduate or baccalaureate level than they are
individuals that are at the graduate level. And for the reputation of
universities around this country, if they're research one and want to
climb up and become a au recognized etc, and things like that, you have to
, you have to have money for graduate students to attract the top graduate
students and those, those are expensive stipends today. Well, and you
mentioned that the development, the foundation and development takes a
sizable chunk of money, it takes money to raise money. How do you answer
people that say, look at how much you're spending here, you put it in
perspective. And that is that this country was built on the fact that non
profits are there to do things that the federal government can't do or the
state government can't do. And they, we have a, you know, they grow by
thousands every single year. The non profits. If you took a look at the
non profits in this valley, the majority of them spend probably 15 to 25
cents on the dollar to raise the money that allows him to operate
you, except in very selective cases, you won't find a university that
spends more than 12 cents on the dollar. My belief is if you get down too
low, you're not spending enough because you're leaving a lot of money on
the table and you want to be the institution or the non profit of choice.
And if you have to do that, you have to be out there, you have to have
enough people to be out there
in my time. My wife and I were out anywhere from a minimum of five, more
likely 6 to 7 nights every single week. So you do that, you get used to it.
You don't realize that it's not normal. You think this is just part of
your life and you make these relationships, you meet these people. And
you're saying, wow, this is, this is wonderful and they care about the
institution and your job is to facilitate that process. So, you know, the
more you're out there, the more you're meeting with people, the more
you're meeting with the ceos, the greater the likelihood that you're going
to have, strengthen that relationship and facilitate a gift to the
institution. And so it becomes natural to do that. But i it's not the
normal life for everybody. Certainly not an 8 to 5 job. No, but, but you
do eat well. My son used to tell me, he said, you know, you have the
greatest job in the world. You get on planes and you fly places and you
stay for two or three days and then you come back home or you get to go to
all these places where they serve you food and you have all these events
and yes, you do get to do all of those. But this past year on sabbatical,
for me, it was so nice to get up in the morning to work out, but walk the
dog, come home and say, ok, today I get to work on something I get to
choose to work on and tonight I get to stay home, I take out the trash. I
can wash dishes. I can work on a research project. I can work on a book. I
get to do things that I choose to do. Not that there was anything I
cherish the things I had to do. But my life was not my own or my wife's
life was not her own. So it's a different environment but it was a
wonderful experience. But it was, you know, after 23 years of doing that,
you find that you can be blessed in anything you do in this institution,
your wife was almost an unpaid employee. She was,
she still is, I think
um well, looking back over your long career here, is there anything that
um that stands out to you that you're most proud of? You'd like to be
remembered for?
Um
II, I,
I probably cannot say that there's anything that I did that I would be uh
remembered for. I think it's what many of us could be remembered for. And
I think that's the relationships that you build inside and outside and
that everything you do, you do it with friends and a team that you help
and that sometimes you're important in it and sometimes you're not, but
everybody allows you to feel part of it. And so you really become a member
of a team and whether it's a $50 million gift or it's $1000 gift or
whether it's somebody's promotion in your department, or whether it's
advising a student that leaves the institution happy and remembers those
times, whatever it is, you alone don't do it and you do it with a group of
people. And those are the things that make this institution better and
make it special. So, so you can have presidents and have great visions and
they do make this place better. But the real work, the real work happens
with people working together, staff, faculty, donors, prospects, whatever
,
having fun and I always have fun. I always believe you have to have fun.
Uh two things, have fun, eat ice cream. There is two things that you have
to always keep in front of you and uh and, and, and enjoying it. You enjoy
what you do. Are there any things that, that you wanted to do? That you
weren't able to do any disappointments along the way? Um
Disappointments
probably the only disappointment that I have is that I had hoped that they
would keep some of my staff together who came, that were in the foundation
and, you know, but I understand, I don't have any role in that, but of my
staff of 7040 have left and that probably is something I wish that they
would have been able to keep some of those individuals around
that I think love the place. Now. Many of them have really good jobs now.
But I think they were committed to a issue, but I think everybody has to
put their own team together and it has to work for them. What worked for
me may not work for somebody else. But if it helps this institution that
it's in the best interest, it's that you, you, you care about these people
because they're what made you successful, they're what allowed you to
achieve anything that you've ever achieved. So you miss them. Now,
fortunately, we still get to talk to him and see him and some have spread
around the country, but we still stay in touch with him. What are you
doing these days? Well,
I promise the president that there are some donors that will still only
work with me. And so I do work with some of those donors. I'm working on a
research project, which is an interesting one. And I think Michael is sort
of interested in what will happen with it. And that's the role of
university presidents in fundraising. It started as I thought was going to
be soft, but it's taken on a different issue. It has a segment on
leadership. It has a segment on ethics and it is now become II I, I think
after talking to my colleagues around the country, it's taken on a much
more interesting perspective as to roles of presidents and what they do
and what they don't do and things like that. So that's important. I'm
working on a book on relationship fundraising with my wife and maybe one
of our daughters. So that's moving forward. It's taking a lot more time,
I've changed its structure three times. I'm very happy with the structure
right now that I have and I expect that the first draft won't be completed
for 8 to 12 months, but at least it will get done.
I'm trying to get ready for class. So we're trying to decide in the
department which class or class or classes I will teach. And as I said, I
didn't want to embarrass my daughter, but I also don't want to embarrass
my friends that are in the college. So it takes a long time to get up to
speed when you leave a department. And the discipline has changed so much.
So you have to work at it to become prepared to do that. I also feel very
, very honored in the sense that Frank Labriola on the ASU Foundation
board gave a $750,000 gift in my name to be matched by donors to do a
chair in my name. And it's at about a million four right now and so many
of those board members. And so it looks like it will reach a million five
by June, which I think is fantastic. And
Bob Middles and Joan and David Lincoln. And it asked that I hold the Joan
and David Lincoln Professor of Applied Business Ethics in the College of
Business. So I feel like I have been honored more than I should. I'm
humbled by how good people have been to me and I love my friends and I've
had a great experience in this institution because you get to know so many
people, both in the administration and in the faculty and you appreciate
what each of them does and if they do it in the right spirit and for the
right reasons, this place can only get better. Sounds like you're a long
way from being retired. I, I don't plan on retiring. I plan on dying. And
then when that happens, I, I think I'll quit. Let's hope that's not for a
while. Let's hope that that's not uh this week or next. Or um you talked
about um the first president that you worked with, you didn't talk much
about Michael Crow and I know that's probably a little politically
sensitive. But can you tell us a little bit? You, you're doing the
research project? I sure focuses on uh no. Well, it focuses on all
presidents. Yes, it includes him. Michael Michael is, I think a great
president. Uh mm You know, you, you look at Russ. Russ is very sensitive
to people. Uh Laddie was, is I, and I said really refined some areas,
especially for the students and more student sensitive, etc
Michael is one who wanted to change a U to be truly, he calls it the New
American University from his perspective. And he is his vision I think is
excellent, the people in this state and the people in the valley love the
vision. Michael's vision is more important to him, I think than anything
else is achieving that vision. So it means that if changes have to take
place, changes happen. But I love the vision. He's a good listener. We
didn't always agree. And uh and, and his style of fundraising is a little
different than mine, but the fact is he's great for this institution. He
will change it for the better and we will become a much greater university
because Michael Crow has been here no matter how long he stays. And if he
stays 10 years or 15 years, we are going to be better because he was here.
And to me, it doesn't matter what role I'm in or what position, whether
and some things I differ with him or agree with him. It's that if he is
what he's doing will help this institution help educate better the
students of this state, improve our research productivity and bring in the
right people. I am going to support him 100%. I vowed in my life. I've
known too many people that leave this institution who are critical of it
and I've been blessed by it.
We were just talking a little bit about some of the areas that um
development might have gotten involved with the expansion of the
university. Um Why don't you just talk briefly about how it's grown since
you came here?
There was one campus when I came, it was Tempe campus, although we started
working to build some relationships in Sun City. And so we had some
programs in Sun City.
We didn't really have any facilities there yet. The first facilities we
had there was a gift in 1985
I think actually, it was sort of interesting because we received the gifts
on the same day in December 1219 85 we received the gift of the Sun Dome
from Dell Webb. That's an area where page and I disagreed. I wanted them
to ask for an endowment to go with it because we web corporation was
making a ton of money and page. Just the organization or the facility.
Actually, that was the same day. We finally received the land from
Arizona Public Service for a PS for the golf course. It actually came in,
it had been committed before, but we actually received it. Both of them on
December 12, I think it was, they went before the regents that day, big
day. But actually, it was a big, if you go take a look, the appraisal for
the Sun Dome was over $8 million and the appraisal for the land was for
over $8 million. So that one year we jumped over $30 million. And people
said what happened that year, it happened because we received two gifts
that for a while I think were important for the institution. Certainly the
golf course is today important and it's part of the Tempe campus.
The Sun dome now has been given to the county, but for many years, it was
operated out of the public events and built many friends for the
institution. I do believe if we'd asked for an endowment early on that
endowment would have grown and we'd have had from 1985 all the way through
to 2005 money that would have been built, that would,
I think worked. And then I think at that time it took 20 years, there was
an agreement that after 20 years the university could do whatever it
wanted to with the sun dome. And in that situation, I think probably
instead of putting more money into it, they could have knocked it down and
sold it or sold the land. But there were so many relationships and
legislative issues to deal with and that, that it was probably better at
this time that it went to the county for them to handle. But I don't think
the initial gift was accepted the way it should have been. And there
should have been other demands placed upon the Daily Web Corporation to
encourage them to provide an endowment of some sort. And both of those
gift, although they were large gifts cost money to maintain or do
something with. Well, they do.
Um
the sun dome actually cost money. Now, the Sun Dome Performing Arts
Association actually contributed a lot of money over time. But public
events actually subsidized the sun dome for many years. And so there was
money, there probably g subsidized sun dome. And today with Mesa and the
Dodge Theater and all of the other
venues that exist in this valley, each one's got to carry its own water.
And so I think it was probably a good decision to get rid of the sun dome
or give it up. The golf course initially was an interesting one. We
received that land. We had about 4 $500,000. The Sun Angels were going to
raise the money for it. They were initially thought it would cost about $4
million. Harry Kavanaugh was set to chair the campaign
but and they had hired Pete Dye. Harry wasn't happy that Pete Dye was
hired to run it. He had somebody else he thought should have been hired
because Pete Dye has a tendency to build all the hills and different types
of things with it. So everybody estimated it should cost $4 million. So I
got involved because we decided to ask the, the Solheim for a gift. So
John Christian, who was the general counsel of the foundation and a board
member actually had been for 30 years,
the general counsel for the Solheim. He also had been the longest person
involved in the foundation and that
it was salmon
asked him to, to help rewrite the bylaws in 1959 the year after he
graduated from the U of a law school. And John had been involved from that
time on until today. He's still involved in the foundation. So that's a
long period of time. But John had been very close. And so we worked with
the Solheim who received a $2 million gift to behalf of it, which we
thought to name the golf course after Carsten,
it was unfortunate that the design and the movement of pills and things
around. It ended up costing $7 million to build the golf course. So Bob
Hobbs got very active and he led a charge to raise the majority of it. The
Sun Angels used some of their money then that they had raised out of
football to help fund some and ended up doing that. And then they built
the golf course clubhouse and Fred Holmes built it at a discounted price
and there were some gifts to that to make a difference, but it turned out
to be a great facility and it is now self sustaining and makes money every
year and gives money back to the men and women's golf program on campus,
varsity golf programs as well as taking care of itself.
What about the growth of the campuses? I talk a little bit about how those
things came about and how you were involved. Well, I think I was involved
tangentially into those. Certainly the first one
other than the sun dome, etc was ASU West and that property was property
that had been leased from the state and I'm trying to remember who
actually managed that. I know the family real well, but I can't pull it
back right now. But they had that property, the university bought it from
the state. Uh, and then, uh, that property then was used to build a Su
West. I remember the groundbreaking that, that happened. And, uh, but I
wasn't involved other than working with the family, we did ask the family
for money and uh they, they've given a scholarship money from a Su West
and, and it's been very supportive. There's a room in the library named
after the, the, the, the wife of the family. Now it's what happens when
you get to be 64 you don't have notes with you all the time. Uh But uh
that one has grown and developed over time.
I think it, uh it's,
I think there's always issues when you build a campus. Do you duplicate or
do you develop new programs? And I think there's always issues of
duplicating. I think they duplicated fine arts. I think they made some
changes in business. But then you always have, do they have an MB A? Do
they have this? Your competition then begins to grow and then you have
turf battles from one campus versus the other as to, well, that's their
reputation. This is our reputation and we don't want it impacted. So I
think it's difficult. It had its own accreditation that was handled early
on and I'm not sure that that was the best thing to do. It was, it may
have been the best decision, but it was probably good to keep them all
under the one ASU responsibility of the Tempe campus and nurture the
growth of those programs. The same with now Michael calls it the
polytechnic.
I was involved in helping find dollars for that and they're still doing
finding dollars. But that was the old Willie Air Force Base. My only real
tie to Willie is that I spent my last month in the Air Force there driving
to work here and I was living at Williams Air Force Base and it was, I
have good memories of that experience and that was great for the
university to have it because it became a nice tie. But those were areas
uh campuses I was tangentially involved with and really uh only was
involved in helping to raise money to make some things happen. What about
downtown? I know the big camp is yet to be, but I wasn't involved in the
mercado
except over the fact that the individual who managed the foundation's
accounts was also the trustee of the Mercado and that it was so he and I
had numerous discussions and we talked about there was a chance to buy
that property for about 3.8 to $4 million. Unfortunately, the university
decided not to buy it at the time. So two years later, they paid $8
million to buy it because that was something that was built by Symington
and maybe Hirsch, I think, may have had a role in that. Just maybe
Symington and Governor Simonton at the time. And, but a pension fund had
really put most of the money in and because it was not doing well, the
pension fund took it back, actually took control of it. And the trustee
for that pension fund was our financial advisor for the assets of the
foundation. And I thought we had a good way to work it through and it was
, it may have worked, but they decided at that time that they didn't want
it. And then a couple years later, I think they saw the vision of how
important it could be downtown.
So they purchased it. What about the research? The research park was
actually part gift and part purchased by the foundation of some of its
assets early on, I don't know the year because the foundation was founded
in 45. So I think it was probably early 50 when it had the research park
and it sat there for a long time. Actually, the university ran it as a
farm for a while. It was known as its farm. I think some individuals when
they finished their jobs at A U and were moved out, were moved to the farm
, worked out there for a while. But the fact is it was given to the
foundation and then the foundation at that time, what it usually did is
after it received the gift, it would give it to the university. And the
university over time decided to build a research park
and it took a long time, it was being built with a style. I think that got
it going, but probably wasn't as successful. And I think the university
had to put a lot of money into that to keep it going. I think it's
probably breaking even today, but it's going to take a large number of
years for it to ever pay back what the university put into it. But the
university, I think in some ways has nurtured so many of these
organizations over time that I think they will become more and more
successful. I think the downtown campus has a chance to be more successful
, more quickly uh depending upon the speculators in the land that get
involved. But I think building the Arizona Collaborative Downtown coupled
with some of the programs, academic programs that will be there. Research
t maybe a specialized hospital that will be tied up. I think it has a
great chance for success. I do believe it's not going to happen as fast as
they would like. And part of the reason is I've talked to a number of
parents who say, you know, do I want to send my son or daughter downtown
to live downtown until it's fully developed. Well, they will because of
the programs, but it will happen more quickly than the research park or
even the A SU foundation as far as growing and developing, but it won't
happen overnight, but it will be successful. And I think it's a good
decision.
How does that work with all of these different areas? All looking for
funds and the foundation? Do you ever find yourself competing against
yourself? That's one of the real issues that you have to manage. We had
what was called the MP system, multiple interest prospect system in which
we would put a primary manager who was responsible for that corporation or
that family and that individual would work with those, that corporation or
those, that family and was responsible for making sure that if anybody was
going to go to him, they would not ask for money. In fact, the
corporations were the easiest to work with because their corporate
contribution officers knew that unless it came with an approval slip from
development that nobody could ask for money. So one of the nice things
that the administration did early on and they did that at the presidential
level and the provost level and everybody understand, stood it at the
Dean's level is that you may go try to ask for money, but you probably
weren't going to get it and it would have to be approved to do that. Then
we changed it and said, if it was for $5000 or less. You could do it. Now
, it's $10,000 or less and maybe 25 next week. But the idea being that
there was some system in place to ensure that corporations and individuals
weren't being asked every single day of their life by the same
organization with different people calling on them. There were people
calling on him to say thank you and cultivating them but not to ask them
for money. Interesting. It's complicated. It is. It is. Um OK. Yeah.
Do you wanna just talk a little bit overall as we kind of try to wrap up
here about um you say you didn't ever come here thinking you'd spend your
life in, at a Su or in Arizona? What, what made the difference? I think it
was the people, I think it was the people and the jobs, you know, the
people that I started with in the college of business are still my friends
to this day. They know that if they ever called me and said I need you, I
wouldn't say well, why I'd just be there, but they would be the same way
to me. So it's always been the people and the challenge of the position
that you held to try to do something better and to make it special. As I
said, I've only looked at two different positions in my life since I've
been here. One was Wisconsin, the other was the presidency at the
University of Alabama. And
those are the only things I looked at and I decided that I didn't want to
live in Alabama ever again and not that there was anything wrong with it.
It just, I didn't want to live in Alabama and that I didn't want to start
over. And Wisconsin, Wisconsin was the one that had the strongest pull for
me because I had such great memories of trying to mature. But in our
family, the males never mature until they're over 50. So it doesn't make
much difference.
But the fact is that this is a very special place. And I can say truly
that I love the place and that I cherish my memories and I cherish my
friends. And as I said, I may change a few days but I never change what's
happened. And how blessed I've been here. Did you ever think that Arizona
would grow the way it has? I didn't, I knew it was growing but I used to
jog on where us 60 is. Now. That was an open field and there was nothing
beyond baseline. But we used to jog and, and uh you could get to the
office. I mean, on Saturday mornings, if we would come and sometimes when
you work in the dean's office, you'd meet Elmer or whatever we do in the
morning or some faculty members. And, you know, I could probably get to
the office in about you know, eight or nine minutes and never, never
stopped for a light. You have lights there. But they were, you know, it
was difficult but you were always easy. It was always easy to get there.
Something I was gonna ask you and then it just flew right out of my head.
Uh One of the things I always like to ask everybody is what advice you
give to young people who are trying to choose the college or a career. Um
I think my advice is that wherever you go and especially if you come to
this place, like I have, I think too often we've been mentored by our own.
If we're a faculty member, we've been mentored by our own professors. I
think it's good to be mentored by individuals that have been at a place a
long time to spend some time with those faculty or spend some time with
those staff to get the real feel for the place and how you develop your
own relationship
with it. I think that
I've been, as I said, blessed because I've had so many mentors in this
place, from faculty to administrators who give you some insights that you
probably don't have at any particular time. And as I said, I've gone from
a job that I was going to leave in about three or four years to something
that I feel strongly about that I love it. And I've had some experiences
in fundraising that change what I do in fundraising from,
from a job to a passion. And maybe it's why I feel so strongly about
people. I did a consulting job back in 1981.
82 it was 82 after I'd just taken this job with New Orleans Children's
Hospital and, you know, a consulting job to pick up a little extra money.
Thanks to pages 48,000 versus 46 that I had been receiving a business. I
went to New Orleans Children's Hospital and they had given me information
about what they had and what, you know, to help design a campaign for him
and frame it for him. And I went in the morning on a Friday morning. I'll
never forget as long as I live and took the tour of the hospital and it
was their specialty was dystrophy and cancer for Children. And I remember
going through that tour and having to go back to the hotel at noon because
I was so sick. I had never seen Children in all different stages and
states of dying in my life. And I vow that whatever I do development wise
, it would never be a job. It would be a commitment for my life,
passionate wise that this is what I would do and I would do it to the best
of my ability and you make changes so you change the quality of life for
somebody that's, you know, that's why you do this. So that experience
really changed how I looked at my position. And I think my wife who's a
student here and been going since 1978 here, got her undergraduate here,
received her masters here and now her doctorate here, she feels the same
way about the place. And you know, the nice thing that I find is that even
though my primary experience was with business and even though I worked
with deans all around the campus, her experience has been with a faculty
and her programs and she's had that same positive experience that faculty
have really been wonderful to her. And she now has a chance by maybe next
December or next spring, but maybe by December to finish her dissertation
and her doctorate. And it's because people cared about her and have been
willing to go that extra step,
talking about changes too, the whole field of fundraising and development
has changed dramatically.
I think one of the things that I learned and I knew wasn't going to work
for us. And thank goodness for people of us C and Stanford and all of the
private schools is that people didn't have the love for this place because
they didn't spend as much time here as others did. And so we had to build
a cadre of relationships and people that were as committed to this place
that were friends of the university outside as we had people committed
inside. And that has really made a difference. And now as we build more
and more dorms on this campus, and students will begin to have that four
year experience of living on campus, they will begin to have those
experiences. But fundraising has much more, still an art and knowing when
to ask, but much more of a science in knowing who has the money. Because
today you can screen your donor base or prospects and you know, the
average income of where somebody lives, you know, if they've made any
stock investment, how much they've made over a particular year or years.
So you begin to know what the value of their property they own is because
all of those are all public records. So you can screen for that and they
can put that together in a way in which, you know, that they may have a
category of 10 categories. You know, that those in one and two are capable
of making a gift to you. So if you're going to do what we have to do,
which is face to face, you're going to focus on those ones and twos and
you're going to start building relationships with the three through the 10
or whatever and you'll do different ways. You'll do more mass marketing to
the three through 10 or 5 to 10 and you'll do more selective tailored
information to the three through five and then one and two, you're going
to see them, you're going to visit them, you're going to spend time with
them and you're going to then be able to take them to what we call the
development readiness pipeline of introduction of getting to know them,
gathering information, cultivating them, whether it's intensive or
extensive. And then when you get to the concept discussion of asking them
for a gift, you'll know and you can only know by sitting there working
with them most of the time when you're asking for a large gift, they'll
tell you they're ready to give to it. You nudge them all the time. You'll
do some test closes and things like that and you'll keep nudging, but
they'll tell you when they're ready and then when you do, they ask and
then it's a matter of recognition and the follow up and then staying with
them because usually the first gift is not the last gift. The first gift
is the first gift or the second gift or whatever, but you want to work
with them and keep them involved. It costs anywhere from 6 to 8 times more
to acquire a new donor as it does to keep a donor. So, so retention is
important and if you do something stupid down the road and lose somebody
by saying something, then donor recovery is important. So in a sense,
you're trying to expand the number of prospects and donors that you have
while keeping those that you've had. And that's why you need more and more
staff and that's why I'm a strong believer that the primary, it's a
relationship, fundraising orientation and that you do that face to face.
And it's your best characteristic as an active listener,
the whole field of fundraising, though you can get degrees in it now. And
there's professional organizations that didn't exist.
No, it really didn't. Although they had case at the time and case did some
, had some programs. But they really, I found case to be for those that
were when you were a neophyte or, or really
case council for the council for the Sociation and support of education.
Uh
And it was OK. And now you have the association of governing boards that
does special things and also helps develop. You also have,
let's see, you've got
a FP used to be NSF National Association of Fundraising Executives. Now is
an association of fundraising professionals
and they do programs continuously. So you have an opportunity to grow, but
you can learn everything you have and pass a test that says you have a
certificate. But if you've never learned that you're not competing with
the donor, that you have to be a good listener, that you have to really
know your organization, that you have to work with these individuals over
and over and over again. I don't care how much, you know, you're probably
not going to be successful. And what I tell people when we hire new staff
is don't expect to be like many of the east coast, universities, private
or public that have been there. A long time, people don't walk into our
office and say, I want to give you a gift now that may happen, but you
should probably pass out or something and say it's a really special time.
Most of the time you have to search out individuals to seek them, talk to
them and find out what their interests may be and involve them, find
programs where they have some love or passion for it. And if you can
provide that better than any other nonprofit or at least be top of the
mind, non profit that they want to support, then you can be successful.
But it certainly has changed. And the time there's thousands more non
profits, there's a large number of fundraising professionals out there and
,
and there's more money to give away.
But the fact is, it's not always the cause, even though the cause is of
great importance, it's, if it's facilitated in the right way that those
organizations will be more successful than others,
anything you wanted to ask that I didn't ask you.
I thought, you know, him so well, I thought maybe, you know, something I
should have asked that only you would know. Yeah, I
do have one moment of pride and that is the fact that uh my kids were
raised on this campus and that uh two of them went to school here,
actually, three attended here. Uh but two graduated from a SU and that one
of them now is back on the faculty in my own department, the marketing
department and has just done a wonderful job. I am so proud of her and
proud of what she's accomplished and how committed she is to the
department and to the college and the university, she's actively involved
in the honors college from which she graduated. And she, and she is that
way because of how she was mentored by faculty she had on this campus. And
I think she treats her students and junior colleagues the same way and is
mentored by a great department of colleagues that she has in the
department of Marketing.
I hope she's worn out all of those lessons she learned from her dad.
Her name is Amy Ostrom and she's an associate professor of marketing and
she is a wonderful teacher and two years ago was the Arizona professor of
the year in Arizona. And she uh is, is very humble and very committed and
not only a wonderful daughter, she's getting married in March. I mean, I
really haven't made, I can't complain about anything I could but nobody
listened, but it's wonderful. It's wonderful to know that a place you love
, your family does also
anything else that I should have asked? No, I
would like to say that my College of business experience was really
special and that I learned from Glen Overman. I learned a great deal about
what I should do and what I should not do. I mean, those are things that
lessons that are really good. And I, I will say that, uh that experience
down, down in the dean's office changed my life for the better forever.
And the one person who did that was Elmer Goody,
but we need to interview him. Ok. Uh This, we'll wrap it up if that's a
good closing line. Thank you. Ok. Thank you.