WEBVTT

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I'll identify that. I'm Pam Stevenson and uh Manny Garcia is our

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photographer. We're doing an interview
today. It's October 22nd, 2003. And

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this is an interview for the Arizona
State Retirees Association, a living

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history video project. It's quite a
mouthful uh here at a su um So to

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start off, why don't we, you identify
yourself, just tell me your name and

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uh what your position was when, when
you retired from a su Well, I'm

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Victor J Miller. I was a professor of
horticulture here at Arizona State

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College and University. I had to watch
my words there because I came here

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the first of April of 1958 and it was
Arizona State College at that time.

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And I, I was here then until I retired
in January of uh 1986. So I was

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here from uh 58 to 86. Really then?
And uh and you're still around here.

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Um Just to go back, why don't you tell
me where you were born? And when

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you were born, where you grew up?
Well, I was born in 1921 in a little

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village in southern Illinois And uh I
was the third of four Children. And

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um we had, my father was in uh
carpentry, construction uh architecture.

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Anyway, we moved up to Urbana Illinois
and we were living in what was to

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be a garage. Ultimately, uh uh three
Children and the parents. And uh then

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my father died and I was four and my
younger brother was then born four

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months later. And my mother moved back
to Southern Illinois from urban

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Illinois. And uh in uh the home
country you might say of the families. And

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, um, we lived in the little village
of Sidney while I went through the

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first three grades of school. And then
we moved to the county seat. It had

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4000 people. And, uh, my mother worked
in a dress factory when she could

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and did some independent sewing when
she could. And, uh, this was the

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depth of the depression. And, uh, I
guess we didn't have anything but we

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didn't miss it because we never had
it. So anyway, we enjoyed life. We

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boys would go out to the reservoir in
the summertime every day and we

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liberated a broken rowboat and hauled
it home on a coaster wagon. Uh,

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borrowed a board from somewhere and
nailed it in, borrowed a tar from the

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city and tarred up the cracks and we
had a boat. I've never had a boat

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since. So I was more prosperous when I
was there. But anyway, then, um,

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when I was a freshman in high school.
My mother remarried and we married a

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farmer and we moved on to a farm. And
so then in high school I began

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taking vocational ag classes. And, uh,
one time I raised two pigs that

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didn't interest me very much. And we
had a four acre peach orchard down on

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the farm. And that was a lot better to
me than pigs. And, um, another

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project I, uh, raised raspberries.
And, uh, so then my senior year in

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college, we had a new ag teacher, I
say new one, we'd had the same one for

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, I think, 15 years. But anyway, we
had a replacement for him. And, uh,

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this, uh, new one, Bill Richie took
some of us down to Carbondale, which

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is now Southern Illinois University,
um, to an AG banquet and some, one of

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the boys was asking about a
scholarship to Illinois. They explained how

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you got that. And I had never thought
of college in my life, but that

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triggered me. I got to think, well,
gee, maybe I can get that and go. And

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, uh, so I went and got the
applications that and got the signatures and

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then we had to take a test and each
county got one in agriculture, one in

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home economics and one in general one.
And so I won the agriculture one.

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Fortunately, the boy who asked,
although I beat him out after he

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triggered me at my interest uh, he got
one too because if the county did

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not use theirs, it was allocated
somewhere else. So, we both got a

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scholarship. So I went to University
of Illinois then and, uh, the classes

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I took it was a horticulture ones and
fruits and vegetables and things

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that interested me more than anything
else. So, that's what I emphasized

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in my college work. Then. What were
your goals then in going to college?

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What did you think you were going to
do with that education? Well, at that

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time, I really didn't know no one in
my family had ever gone to college.

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And, uh, I thought, well, at least
that's something I, something I'll be

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able to do when I get through. And,
uh, unfortunately, a war came along

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about that time and, uh, I was
graduating in 1942 and, uh, they had the

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second draft for people as it was
after Pearl Harbor. And, um, I think I

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drew about 17 nationally, which means
I was probably number one in my

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small home county. And, um, so anyway,
I got to finish college and, uh,

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before I went into service. So, what
branch of the service did you serve

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in? Where did you go? Well, I got in
and they sent me to California to a

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heavy weapons training company that's
heavy weapons is water, cool, 30

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caliber machine guns and 81 millimeter
mortars. And, uh, this was a, let

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me think if I think of the right term
here. A voc outfit. Now, that was a

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volunteer officer candidate. They
weren't drafting married men. But if a

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married man wanted to try to be an
officer, he could enroll and list and

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go through basic training. And then
there were boards to go before and, uh

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, they'd question you and if you pass
the boards you got to go to officer

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candidate school and if you didn't
pass, then you got discharged. Well, I

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wasn't married. So that didn't enter
in. But uh most fellows were applying

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for this officer candidate school. And
near the end of the 13 weeks, the

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company commander called me and he
said, well, you've never applied for OC

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si was a college graduate. I said, no,
sir. He said, why I said, well, in

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all honesty,

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I fear that I would be like some of
the lieutenants we have here and

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completely incompetent. And I just
don't believe I can stand that.

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I don't know how that sat with him,
but it's the way I felt. I, I just

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didn't feel that I was really a
command material at that time and they

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were miserable. Uh Anyway, he said,
well, I'm going to send you to the NCO

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school. So I finished the 13 weeks and
he sent me there

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along with the famous uh tennis player
at the time. Uh a pro tennis player

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Frankie Kovacs and the two of us went
to that school. Um, Frankie was tall

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and handsome and uh, uh, the officers
loved to get him to go play tennis

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with him on weekends. And, uh, one
time we were having inspections and

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none of them said Kovacs. Where are
your shoes? Other pair of shoes you

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had to have out on inspection. And my
barracks bag, sir will get them out.

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He shakes the bag and they roll out
across the floor. They were all

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wriggled up from being scrubbed and
everybody laughed. They couldn't help

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it anyway. He and I went there and
then after a couple of weeks, I got

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word to come out and they put me on a
train and shipped me back east. And

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uh we spent seven days on the train,
didn't know where we were going

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except one morning I got up to be on
KP and I looked out and I thought,

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boy, this looks like miserable
country. This was sure about mid November a

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little past mid Novem ground. Sear.

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Finally we came to town Mount Vernon,
Illinois and I realized where we are.

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We're on the southern railroad going
through my hometown. So we head on

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east to Fairfield, Illinois. We went a
half mile south of our farm and

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then we passed the high school and out
there in the lot was our Pontiac

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that my little brother had at school.
And then we came to First Street and

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the block north on first street lived
this most beautiful girl in the

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world whom I didn't take care for me.
But I was getting very sweet on her

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and the train just kept chunk, chunk,
chunk, chunk. We went to North

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Carolina to camp Butner. Anyway, I
spent some time there and then they

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were looking for volunteers for a
ranger battalion and uh they shipped out

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all our men and we're getting in new
replacements. And so I volunteered

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for the rangers and, um, was accepted,
I was a staff sergeant or a, I was

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a three stripe sergeant at that time.
And, um, they

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sent us to, uh Tullahoma Tennessee
camp for, to form this ranger battalion.

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And, uh, so we spent six weeks there,
went to a couple of weeks of rubber

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boat training in Florida, which was
interesting then back up north to Fort

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Dix, New Jersey and I got a furlough
from there to go home. And while

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there, my third grade teacher had a
party and she was the aunt of this

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girl that I was very sweet on. And
that was the first time I thought

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really, maybe she would care for me.
She got us together if you can

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impress your third grade teacher. I
tell you, you've got the world at your

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fingertips.

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Anyway.

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Uh, it was back then we went over to
England in January and um, then went

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into Omaha Beach on D day and uh, the
job they'd picked out for us. And so

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we went through there, got through
France and Germany pretty well. And

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finally in late February 3 miles
behind the German lines where we were

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holding a road so they couldn't use
it. Uh, after couple of days or so,

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some of us got captured. So I spent a
couple of months in the guest of the

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German government and then got home,
got back to college, got married to

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that beautiful girl. And uh so I got
my graduate work in and uh why don't

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you back up just a minute? That sounds
like a pretty um harrowing

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experience during the war that you
were actually a prisoner of war for

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several months. Yes, this was um, we
were getting the very low on men. I,

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I had a section that was uh two squads
of five men each and uh we had uh

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light machine gun at CF 30 at this
time. We didn't have our murders and um

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we were down now you had one gun left
and uh we had an attack that

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afternoon and uh my squad leader of
that squad got wounded rather bad and

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I got a piece in my neck. And after
the raid was repulsed by, we went back

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to the aid station and set up a pill
box and captured. They kept Floyd the

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squad leader and patched my neck up
and I went back and I only had one man

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left was,

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and that was usable. I says, well, if
you, I'll take the gun as long as I

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can stay awake tonight. And, uh, so I
stayed up till about one o'clock.

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I couldn't stay awake any longer and I
woke up huff and I got my slit

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trench right behind the gun and went
to sleep. And when I woke up, the gun

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is well early while I'm there, they
were zero. The artillery in front of

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me close enough. Every time a shell
hit it threw dirt over me. That's how

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close this was our, our artillery zero
did. I was happy for that.

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But then I woke up and Pump is dead
and the machine guns firing back over

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me and my rifles up over the, out of
the slit dredge over the pile of dirt

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alongside it. And I can't had a 45.

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So I get out. Well, I'm gonna die
valiantly here. And the first German I

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see through the trees. Pow. He drops
his knees. Oh, you couldn't anybody

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here in the woods in the middle of the
night? Pow. He flops on his tummy,

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ah, playing possum, huh? Pal. About
that time. Three more step out of the

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site. And they suddenly say, well,
now, what do you do here? Do you shoot

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one of them and die or do you maybe
try to surrender? We probably couldn't

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take prisoners on a night attack like
that. We didn't have enough men to

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handle them and I didn't figure they
would

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your whole life goes before your eyes,
so to speak. How many have you

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captured Floyd? The squad leader just
got hurt up around breast. He had, I

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captured.

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This sounds silly. We captured about
35 heavily armed Germans one day

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moving up. This is a situation when he
looked over. Hey, look over the

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hedge row, we can just see the tops of
the helmets coming and we ran

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around there at the gap, we stood
there with our rifles primed. And as

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they came around the bend in the hedge
row, there's piles of dirt on each

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side. They dead to rights. I mean, all
they can do is keep coming. And we

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captured the whole squad of 37 men.
Well, we captured a lot of others and

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killed several with our borders. And
have I done enough to justify trying

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to surrender? And I thought, well, I
tried it. So I, I, when they poked in

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my hole with a rifle, I said, camera,

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this is,

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this is kind of getting away from our
a su but anyway, uh I'd said I only

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had one usable man. We had Sergeant
Stucker there whose nerves had been

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shot, he was supposed to get
transferred, but they brought him on this

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operation. He wouldn't do anything but
sit his hope, he wouldn't do

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anything.

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So while I'm standing out there
captured, wonder if they're gonna shoot me.

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One of them prodded in stucker hole
and he said, hand the hope hands up.

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Well, the fellow just pull the trigger
and that gave the stucker. So they

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, I thought they'd probably shoot me,
but they finally marched me back

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through the woods to a little town
into the, um, well, the local tavern

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was their headquarters. So we go in
there and, uh, there was Joey

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Markowitz. Now Joey had been our
Bazooka man. He carried the Bazooka Shore

00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.807
on the invasion. Carried it all
through France into Germany. We've never

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seen an armored vehicle and that
previous afternoon they put out mines in

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the road and an armored vehicle came
along and they hollered for joy. It

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stopped there and they were looking at
the mine and Joey ran down, there

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was a Bazooka fired a shot and hit the
thing. And so they jumped out of

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the vehicle and ran and Joy's there
and everybody else came to look at the

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vehicle and they all left, but Joey is
still admiring it and sudden, hey,

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they got joy. They came back out of
the woods, took joy prisoner and left

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with him. So there was joy in there
drinking beer.

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BJ, what do you do? So anyway, that
was how I became a captive. So we've

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moved several times from camp to camp
and ultimately three of us escaped

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when we were in. That's a long story
too. But they picked us up after a

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couple of days and took us by train to
Munich for interrogation. And then

00:16:53.779 --> 00:17:00.765
up to the camp and um we were there
about two weeks and it was liberated.

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I got back to America quite an
adventure. So you, you say you escaped and

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then you were captured by the, well,
there was one fellow that was always

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wanting to escape, escape, escape.
Now, the war is about over. We all know

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that you didn't want to get shot for
it. On the other hand, we're just

00:17:19.118 --> 00:17:22.656
marching, We're getting practically
nothing to eat. We're sleeping in the

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field at night in the cold wet ground
and it's not very happy existence.

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And finally, they had split us up and
put a bunch of us in a barn said

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we'd be there two nights and this
whole group, uh, we had about seven that

00:17:39.838 --> 00:17:43.996
had been in our company who were all
wanting to escape.

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And, uh, I said, well, all right,
we're gonna be here two nights. We'll

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look around tomorrow and if it looks
favorable and we can leave tomorrow

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night, we try it and well, then
everybody else backed out except this one

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is always wanting to escape. And then
one who spoke German, who wasn't

00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:09.156
going to go. He said, well, I'll go
with you then. So the three of us, we

00:18:09.189 --> 00:18:15.736
and we traded for a little bit of food
and, uh, threw away all of our

00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:21.906
excess paraphernalia we carried. And,
um, behind the barn was a slit

00:18:21.939 --> 00:18:26.906
transfer latrine. And then there were
piles of faggots out there up 5 6 ft

00:18:26.939 --> 00:18:30.835
high. And there always a couple of
guards out there. And then when we

00:18:30.868 --> 00:18:34.656
marched, there were dogs along and,
uh, we didn't know where the dogs were

00:18:34.689 --> 00:18:38.766
, but there was a hedge around this
place and there was a little path

00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:43.065
going out through the left, through
the, through the hedge.

00:18:43.098 --> 00:18:47.006
I said, well, maybe we could do it. So
when it got dark, we got down to

00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:53.436
the door and when you got down low,
uh, they had wandered, the guards had

00:18:53.469 --> 00:18:56.535
wandered around behind the fagots
where you couldn't see the cigarettes.

00:18:56.568 --> 00:18:59.877
So you knew they couldn't see the
bottom of the door. So I said, well,

00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:04.315
keep five yards apart and follow me
and I crawl out the door, crawl across

00:19:04.348 --> 00:19:10.065
the lot, crawl through the fence of
the hedge. Can't hear a thing. Those

00:19:10.098 --> 00:19:14.387
son of a guns aren't coming. Look
around there right on my heels. We crawl

00:19:14.420 --> 00:19:18.785
a couple 100 yards and we got up and
took off. Now, that sounds good. And

00:19:18.818 --> 00:19:24.676
it took off. Where do you go? You're
in the middle of Germany. I had a big

00:19:24.709 --> 00:19:31.555
map about this big, uh, well, if we go
southwest Switzerland is that way,

00:19:31.588 --> 00:19:34.936
we'll never get there. But you gotta
have some direction. And so by the

00:19:34.969 --> 00:19:40.446
stars, we started going southwest
across country after we hear frogs. W he

00:19:40.479 --> 00:19:44.117
says, one who spoke German says,
wonder where they are about that time. He

00:19:44.150 --> 00:19:49.906
disappeared. He slid down a 10 ft
bank, we fish him out of the swamp and

00:19:49.939 --> 00:19:54.206
we came to road going southwest. So we
took it. We just marched through

00:19:54.239 --> 00:19:59.097
these little towns and everybody's
asleep. And, and finally about dawn, we

00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:01.706
thought, well, we better get out of
here. And we went back behind the

00:20:01.739 --> 00:20:04.897
field, um,

00:20:04.930 --> 00:20:07.926
climbed another fence and there was a
field, had a little patch of

00:20:07.959 --> 00:20:12.805
evergreens in it. We went over to it
and bend it down just beyond it.

00:20:12.838 --> 00:20:17.456
There was a drop off with trees.

00:20:17.489 --> 00:20:23.555
We woke up a noise. There was a German
soldier out there picking up sticks.

00:20:23.588 --> 00:20:26.325
As soon as he left, we sneaked over
the other side of the patch of

00:20:26.358 --> 00:20:32.137
evergreens and bend it down again. We
each had one blanket

00:20:32.170 --> 00:20:35.367
and here came a German soldier from
the other direction. He came, he

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.347
walked right up to the trees, he
climbed the fence, came right up to us

00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:46.426
and, ah, and then I translate his
German since I didn't speak it while he

00:20:46.459 --> 00:20:49.717
did. And what are you doing here? Oh,
well, he said we're just going to

00:20:49.750 --> 00:20:54.535
work well, then, why don't you go? So,
we got up, rolled up her blankets

00:20:54.568 --> 00:20:58.295
over her shoulder and took off and
they had a lot of prisoners in the

00:20:58.328 --> 00:21:02.857
country. So we got back on the road
and there wasn't any place to stop

00:21:02.890 --> 00:21:09.357
because every hedge, every haystack
had a gun in it. And, uh, we just kept

00:21:09.390 --> 00:21:15.607
going. And mid afternoon we'd stopped
to eat a little lunch and they had

00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.766
an air raid behind us. We could see
the bombs coming down through the

00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.825
clouds.

00:21:20.858 --> 00:21:24.266
Finally, it stopped the head of us.
There was a little town, a bridge over

00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:29.416
the stream and we thought, well, if we
walk, walk around and for this

00:21:29.449 --> 00:21:33.555
stream, it's gonna look rather
strange. So we just took off and marched

00:21:33.588 --> 00:21:36.085
right through the town. Everybody's
coming out. By that time, we just

00:21:36.118 --> 00:21:39.946
march right through, just kept going
like we knew what we were doing.

00:21:39.979 --> 00:21:46.906
Nobody bothered us up ahead was a
group of Russians working in a big cut

00:21:46.939 --> 00:21:50.996
and there was a big fat German there
with his arms on his a Kimbo looking

00:21:51.029 --> 00:21:55.367
at us. I said, I don't like his looks.
We better climb out of here. So we

00:21:55.400 --> 00:22:01.045
scrambled up the slope to, he
scrambled up the slope, begin shouting at us

00:22:01.078 --> 00:22:06.117
as we better go. Wally, Wally says,
ignore him. He just wants to know who

00:22:06.150 --> 00:22:11.476
we are and where we're going, ignore
him. So we just walk up across the

00:22:11.509 --> 00:22:17.565
country leaving him. And then we came
to a bridge over an auto bond. Uh,

00:22:17.598 --> 00:22:22.357
that uh doesn't sound like too
startling a thing. But suppose you never

00:22:22.390 --> 00:22:26.916
heard of an auto bond. You've never
seen an auto bond and suddenly you see

00:22:26.949 --> 00:22:34.285
the road going across country and uh
over mounted by some trees on the far

00:22:34.318 --> 00:22:39.597
side, there were some structures of
some kind back in there. We could see

00:22:39.630 --> 00:22:44.246
and we kept going, we ran into a
little Russian boy and while we talked to

00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:52.279
him and we'd, we had dug, this was uh
April. We had dug up potatoes. They

00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:59.045
had just planted and they just put a
furrow down, throw in manure and

00:22:59.078 --> 00:23:02.545
dropped the potato and cover it up.
And we'd gone down through the potato

00:23:02.578 --> 00:23:07.545
patch, dug up the potato had to sack
him and we wanted some salt and we'd

00:23:07.578 --> 00:23:12.776
like to have some matches so we could
maybe cook them. And, um, so he was

00:23:12.809 --> 00:23:17.456
going to town and he brought some salt
and some matches and some bread and

00:23:17.489 --> 00:23:21.627
some civilian clothes for Waller who
chose not to put them on. He said,

00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:25.686
you can't get out of here soldiers
everywhere. If you stay here, I'll try

00:23:25.719 --> 00:23:28.956
to bring some food each day.

00:23:28.989 --> 00:23:33.825
We're in, by this time back in a
haystack in the woods. Well, it didn't

00:23:33.858 --> 00:23:38.877
sound very romantic. We remember this
strawberry jam we had liberated from

00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:42.795
houses and we were fighting. We just
kept thinking that strawberry jam and

00:23:42.828 --> 00:23:47.666
the first isolated house we came to,
we were gonna try to tackle it. And,

00:23:47.699 --> 00:23:52.585
uh, so as soon as it got dark, we took
off and, uh, the first road

00:23:52.618 --> 00:23:57.127
crossing we came to, they had a guard
out there. He stopped us. Where are

00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:02.097
you going? Uh, we're going to, to
work. We've seen to sign, oh, Well,

00:24:02.130 --> 00:24:09.916
where are your papers that we lacked?
And so anyway, he got very excited

00:24:09.949 --> 00:24:14.607
and he was, of course, that air raid,
they had guards out marches down to

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:19.166
the local headquarters again in the
tavern. And they weren't happy with

00:24:19.199 --> 00:24:24.666
this at all. We told them we were just
doughboys, we weren't there. We

00:24:24.699 --> 00:24:28.535
were just doughboys out for a stroll.
And finally they made us take off

00:24:28.568 --> 00:24:32.196
our boots and they were all worn out
socks and they knew we didn't come

00:24:32.229 --> 00:24:36.266
down there and then they were
friendly, apologize. They didn't have any

00:24:36.299 --> 00:24:41.377
place to keep us. We'd have to go five
kilometers to the next town and

00:24:41.410 --> 00:24:45.835
which we did and ended up in a jail
cell with a bed big enough for three

00:24:45.868 --> 00:24:53.868
of us. And then it was by train to
Munich and so on.

00:24:54.890 --> 00:24:59.367
So you were finally when you finally
freed then, well, on uh April the

00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:05.805
29th, uh Patton came through and that
camp and liberated. I didn't see

00:25:05.838 --> 00:25:11.137
Patton. Uh I go to the next prisoner
war group every Tuesday morning and

00:25:11.170 --> 00:25:15.815
several were in this camp and they
were how everybody else is down there

00:25:15.848 --> 00:25:20.496
where Patton got up on his jeep with
these pearl handle revolvers. I don't

00:25:20.529 --> 00:25:26.397
know. But uh they're, they're all uh
very vociferous that he was there and

00:25:26.430 --> 00:25:31.426
all they were all there. And no, I
wasn't,

00:25:31.459 --> 00:25:36.835
but I was liberated. I guess we should
come back to the United States and

00:25:36.868 --> 00:25:42.887
and talk about how you ended up at a
su, well, my first job, uh, uh, my

00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:47.785
first position, they were wanting a
horticulturalist at the University of

00:25:47.818 --> 00:25:55.818
Nebraska. And, um, so I, we had
negotiated and I went out for an interview

00:25:56.670 --> 00:26:04.670
in the summer of, uh, 48 I guess it
was. And, um, so then they offered me

00:26:04.930 --> 00:26:12.930
the position there and, uh, I used to
get 4200 a year month off. And so

00:26:14.338 --> 00:26:17.647
the first of February,

00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:23.367
I hadn't finished my dissertation yet,
but uh uh I could finish it in

00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:31.127
absentia. And um, so we moved to
Lincoln, Nebraska, then the first of

00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:35.236
February of uh 4049.

00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:41.097
And um and your dissertation was on
the relationship of plastic pigments

00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:46.325
to color in the golden delicious
apple.

00:26:46.358 --> 00:26:53.196
Yes. For my phd from University of
Illinois. Yes. I'd gotten out of

00:26:53.229 --> 00:27:01.229
service and uh on uh October 3rd, I
think it was and went up to Illinois.

00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:08.666
Let me say that when I got home, I had
a 60 day delay en route to Miami

00:27:08.699 --> 00:27:14.055
Beach Florida to Redistribution
Station. And uh so I've been courting this

00:27:14.088 --> 00:27:19.236
girl rather assiduously and things
were going pretty well and uh I did go

00:27:19.269 --> 00:27:25.176
out and paint the farmhouse while I
was there and uh things like that,

00:27:25.209 --> 00:27:28.347
things were going well. So I wrote in
and said, I'm working on the farm.

00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:33.196
I'm were enjoying the sunshine and the
good food. I'm getting stronger. I

00:27:33.229 --> 00:27:39.127
could use 30 more days. So they gave
me 30 more days. So I had 90 days at

00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:44.246
home there and she finally said she
would marry me. But, uh, uh, she

00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:49.006
wouldn't marry me. Then. I said, well,
if, if you marry me, we can stay in

00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:53.835
the hotel down in Miami Beach. And,
uh, well, we don't have an iron and we

00:27:53.868 --> 00:27:59.706
don't have sheets and none of those
seem very important to me. But I said

00:27:59.739 --> 00:28:05.526
, I'll never take you to Florida then.
But uh, so then when I got to,

00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:11.276
wanted to go to school, um I went up
to Illinois and they didn't really

00:28:11.309 --> 00:28:15.946
have any assistance ships in
horticulture. Uh One fellow wanted to send me

00:28:15.979 --> 00:28:20.805
back to New Jersey where his father in
law was Chairman of Horticulture.

00:28:20.838 --> 00:28:28.838
And that was a long way from this
girl. And uh then a friend who had been

00:28:29.539 --> 00:28:34.377
an undergraduate when I was, is now on
the staff. And he didn't, you have

00:28:34.410 --> 00:28:37.416
a lot of botany? And I said, well,
yes. So he took me up to Botany

00:28:37.449 --> 00:28:41.295
Department. And 15 minutes later, I
walk out with an assistantship in

00:28:41.328 --> 00:28:45.877
Botany. And then he was living in a
graduate fraternity. He said, well,

00:28:45.910 --> 00:28:50.347
you can stay with us till you find an
apartment and finding an apartment

00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:55.476
was a difficult thing that everybody
was. And in fact, they had delayed

00:28:55.509 --> 00:28:59.315
opening college two weeks while they
tried to find housing and they got

00:28:59.348 --> 00:29:05.637
places that uh, Rantoul, which was an
airbase north of Verba, uh, that

00:29:05.670 --> 00:29:13.565
they could use. And, uh, so finally
I've managed to rent an apartment

00:29:13.598 --> 00:29:20.325
which was, uh, one big room with an
open gas heater in it and a cut off

00:29:20.358 --> 00:29:26.926
outdoor porch for a kitchen and, uh,
54 families sharing the bathroom. But

00:29:26.959 --> 00:29:31.656
anyway, it was a, it had a roof over
our heads. We got married on

00:29:31.689 --> 00:29:37.467
Thanksgiving Day. What year was that?
45.

00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:44.137
So anyway, from our experiences at
Illinois, then we went to Nebraska and

00:29:44.170 --> 00:29:49.647
things went reasonably well there. I
guess I ultimately had become

00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:54.266
chairman of the horticulture
Department at the University of Nebraska. And

00:29:54.299 --> 00:30:00.717
uh figured they'd probably bury me
there. And then I had a letter from the

00:30:00.750 --> 00:30:04.617
Arizona State Colleges. They were
looking for a horticulturist who could

00:30:04.650 --> 00:30:10.607
teach everything, fruits, vegetables,
landscaping. And I circulated around

00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:13.436
the department, but nobody was
interested and I wrote back and says, well

00:30:13.469 --> 00:30:16.555
, I didn't have anyone interested. I
didn't know anybody could do that.

00:30:16.588 --> 00:30:18.867
But me,

00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:22.456
they sent me an application.

00:30:22.489 --> 00:30:26.887
One of our foresters had been down to
Arizona State and he was very

00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:33.035
enthusiastic about the place. I mean,
he was here for a meeting and, um,

00:30:33.068 --> 00:30:39.476
my wife had a lot of pain in her hips
back when she was a couple of years

00:30:39.509 --> 00:30:43.226
after she was born. They decided her
hips were dislocated and put her in a

00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:49.065
cast with her legs extended and she
was there six months and like that and

00:30:49.098 --> 00:30:54.717
her hips were never good and they were
quite painful and it seemed that

00:30:54.750 --> 00:31:00.877
maybe the climate down here, the nice
warm climate would be more conducive

00:31:00.910 --> 00:31:07.196
to her than, uh, the rigors of
Nebraska. So anyway, we got to negotiating

00:31:07.229 --> 00:31:12.887
some. Finally, they invited me down
here for an interview in November of,

00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.506
uh, uh, 57

00:31:16.539 --> 00:31:22.805
and I flew down here and, uh, they
wanted me to stay for a football game.

00:31:22.838 --> 00:31:29.406
They had an undefeated football team.
And um I wanted, I had a friend at

00:31:29.439 --> 00:31:34.406
Tucson at the U of A who was in Derry.
And he had written me about the

00:31:34.439 --> 00:31:40.597
antagonism between the U of a
agriculturist and the division of

00:31:40.630 --> 00:31:46.565
agriculture here. I said the
antagonist was all on their part. But uh

00:31:46.598 --> 00:31:51.387
anyway, I thought, well, I, I better
go down there. So I went down there

00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:55.575
and I talked to the chairman of the
horticulture department.

00:31:55.608 --> 00:32:01.436
I mean, the Citrus Station was in
Tempe and the vegetable station was here

00:32:01.469 --> 00:32:06.436
in Mesa and uh the county agent's
office. And if I couldn't take my

00:32:06.469 --> 00:32:12.717
classes to the Citrus Station or the
Vegetables Experiment station and get

00:32:12.750 --> 00:32:16.166
help from the county agent, I couldn't
be a one man horticulture

00:32:16.199 --> 00:32:22.776
department without some support. Well,
he assured me that uh at our level

00:32:22.809 --> 00:32:27.785
we could get along. He could, he could
also not believe that anybody would

00:32:27.818 --> 00:32:31.236
leave the chairmanship of the
University of Nebraska to come to Arizona

00:32:31.269 --> 00:32:36.585
State Colleges to be a professor. That
was beyond his comprehension

00:32:36.618 --> 00:32:41.065
that uh anyway,

00:32:41.098 --> 00:32:47.607
I came, came the first of April.
Doctor Dan Robinson was the director of

00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:53.897
the division. He started a
horticulture class in the spring semester. And

00:32:53.930 --> 00:32:59.026
that's a strange time for a professor
to move. But I had a, a younger

00:32:59.059 --> 00:33:03.706
professor at Nebraska and I for
proposition it. Now, if I took this class

00:33:03.739 --> 00:33:10.075
, uh till the first of April did this,
uh would you feel overburdened if

00:33:10.108 --> 00:33:13.647
you took it then from that point on?
And you know, that would be quite

00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:19.766
fair. So I just got everything lined
up and I said I could come the first

00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:26.266
of April and that was a nice time to
come. The flowers were blooming, nice

00:33:26.299 --> 00:33:29.186
and cool.

00:33:29.219 --> 00:33:35.305
So anyway, that's how I got here and I
came as a full professor. And uh so

00:33:35.338 --> 00:33:41.647
I, and how big was the department
then? Well, we had a dozen members of

00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:48.147
horticulture of uh agriculture there.
Roughly speaking, this is uh not a

00:33:48.180 --> 00:33:53.936
religious statement, but it was
principally latter day saint professors.

00:33:53.969 --> 00:33:57.717
Of course, they are the ones that were
more into agriculture in those

00:33:57.750 --> 00:34:01.867
times and still are for that matter.

00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:07.166
So there are only two or three of us
who were infidels, I guess in the

00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:12.675
division. But uh we all got along
well. How important was the agriculture

00:34:12.708 --> 00:34:16.115
department at that time? To a su

00:34:16.148 --> 00:34:22.365
well, I don't know, it must have had
some importance they had, as I

00:34:22.398 --> 00:34:27.885
understood it this before my time had
set up the division of agriculture

00:34:27.918 --> 00:34:34.997
um officially in 1950 appro the
legislature appropriated funds for a

00:34:35.030 --> 00:34:39.017
building. And so they built the
building. Now, the plaque on it says for

00:34:39.050 --> 00:34:44.546
agriculture and business, uh but they
build a wing of it which did not

00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:49.845
have any entrance from the other rest
of the building. And surprisingly,

00:34:49.878 --> 00:34:55.327
the administration ended up in that
wing that was isolated. So they got an

00:34:55.360 --> 00:35:01.385
administration building built with
agriculture money, I guess. But um they

00:35:01.418 --> 00:35:06.506
had always had agriculture here. In
fact, at one time, as I learned the

00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:10.356
history of the place, every student
had to have a garden and plant some

00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:18.389
crops. And so that uh um I was,

00:35:18.489 --> 00:35:23.396
when I was first here, all of
agriculture was in this new building they

00:35:23.429 --> 00:35:28.445
had built for that. And uh shortly
after that, they build a new science

00:35:28.478 --> 00:35:35.517
building and then they moved the
science people out of the old science

00:35:35.550 --> 00:35:41.566
building. And so agriculture was moved
over into the other building which

00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:46.017
is noted for having names of famous
scientists and the all around the

00:35:46.050 --> 00:35:52.195
outside of it. And uh so that's where
I moved. It's it was a good move

00:35:52.228 --> 00:35:57.356
except that I moved in an office that
Doctor Paul Miller had had, he was a

00:35:57.389 --> 00:36:01.936
geologist and for years people would
drop into my office. Doctor Miller.

00:36:01.969 --> 00:36:06.416
Yes. Oh boy, that was a good game.
Yes, it, good day, isn't it? Yes.

00:36:06.449 --> 00:36:10.736
Finally they'd pull a rock out of
their pocket. I, oh, no, you want Paul

00:36:10.769 --> 00:36:17.856
Miller? He's gone now. So, anyway,
that's where we spent, where I spent

00:36:17.889 --> 00:36:22.517
most of my time then here on the
campus was agriculture. Were you

00:36:22.550 --> 00:36:25.586
surprised when you came to Arizona?
And how important agriculture was? And

00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:32.247
this was a desert after all? Well, we
had the quite a citrus industry. We

00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:38.827
had quite a lettuce industry and uh
carrots and other vegetables. And uh

00:36:38.860 --> 00:36:46.860
so it was really, and of course, in uh
the cotton crop and alfalfa. And so

00:36:47.168 --> 00:36:53.896
it was uh agricultural place really a
lot different from Nebraska though.

00:36:53.929 --> 00:36:59.595
Quite different. It was, it was more
lively than Nebraska. I mean, this

00:36:59.628 --> 00:37:06.046
is what I had thought that uh uh there
was more activity going on here in

00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:12.356
the, uh let's say, the business world
and the academic world in a way than

00:37:12.389 --> 00:37:18.396
uh Nebraska was more established than
that. Things weren't happening so

00:37:18.429 --> 00:37:23.827
fast there. Um Well, what was your,
your job? What did you actually teach

00:37:23.860 --> 00:37:30.506
or what did you actually do when you
first came? Well, I've um Doctor

00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:36.327
Robinson had started a veg fruit
class, I think it was. And, and I took

00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:43.287
that over when I arrived and uh one
student later said, you know, we got

00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:49.287
an awful lot on apples. That first
year it had been one of my principal

00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:57.077
objects of study. And Um, so then we,
I taught classes in fruit production

00:37:57.110 --> 00:38:02.577
and vegetable production and then we
started one on turf for uh, lawns and

00:38:02.610 --> 00:38:06.615
greens. We called it from, uh, working
with the golf course,

00:38:06.648 --> 00:38:12.767
Superintendent Sub and um, uh
landscaping

00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:19.727
and uh landscape plants and then
greenhouse production. And so I said, I'm

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.327
, I'm the only one who could teach
everything and I didn't teach

00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:30.106
everything, I guess. Um, so it kept me
busy. Tell me about how you got

00:38:30.139 --> 00:38:37.135
involved with Channel eight. Well, in
the summer of 1963

00:38:37.168 --> 00:38:40.747
a young man came over from channel
eight and they were wondering about

00:38:40.780 --> 00:38:45.467
starting a home gardening, having a
home gardening program. And he talked

00:38:45.500 --> 00:38:50.595
to Dean Thompson, Dean Lee P Thompson
who was Dean of uh engineering and

00:38:50.628 --> 00:38:55.695
Applied Sciences. And uh he suggested
two or three people he might talk

00:38:55.728 --> 00:39:01.905
with. I was one of them. And so we
discussed this at some length and what

00:39:01.938 --> 00:39:07.936
did you want? And finally, we agreed,
we would try a series on home

00:39:07.969 --> 00:39:14.606
gardening and uh we only agreed on 13
programs. And so this was the summer

00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:21.345
of 63 and we're gonna do this sometime
the next winter. So I had time to

00:39:21.378 --> 00:39:27.365
think about this and plan 13 sections
of horticulture and what you would

00:39:27.398 --> 00:39:35.356
do on each. And I came up with the
first one and, well, we can do this on

00:39:35.389 --> 00:39:40.327
landscaping and we could do this and
then we'd stop and do this and then

00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:47.827
stop and do this and for a program and
I made a house and I made a yard

00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:53.477
and walks and if I could put these all
down and I went up to the, hey,

00:39:53.510 --> 00:39:59.057
you're not smart yourself. I wanted a
beautiful lawn for this house. So I

00:39:59.090 --> 00:40:03.467
called my friend Art Snyder up at the
Paradise Valley Country Club. Art. I

00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:08.956
needed a little section of sod. The
others had a uh a nursery so they

00:40:08.989 --> 00:40:13.615
could always cut some sod. And so I
got a nice chunk of sod and I laid it

00:40:13.648 --> 00:40:19.316
out there and then I put my house on
that, my drive and walks and the only

00:40:19.349 --> 00:40:25.345
thing is I didn't realize the
ramifications of that because I had a nice

00:40:25.378 --> 00:40:32.155
moist sod. And as the cameras roll,
this walks begin to curl up and the

00:40:32.188 --> 00:40:36.026
drive begins to curl up

00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:41.635
anyway. And I thought, well, we will
do this and then we'll stop and we'll

00:40:41.668 --> 00:40:48.037
do this section. And the director when
I suggest this is hell, no, we will

00:40:48.070 --> 00:40:52.845
start and we will go for 30 minutes
and we will stop. If there's any

00:40:52.878 --> 00:40:57.376
interruption in there, any time we
will start over, we will start and we

00:40:57.409 --> 00:41:02.467
will go for 30 minutes, we will stop.
There was no editing equipment.

00:41:02.500 --> 00:41:07.017
There was nothing if you did it for 30
minutes and you stopped and then

00:41:07.050 --> 00:41:12.467
they looked at the tape to see if it
got recorded. And if it did. You were

00:41:12.500 --> 00:41:20.146
fortunate if it didn't, you started
and you did it again. And so was all

00:41:20.179 --> 00:41:25.436
that was all in the studio at that
time. And, uh it's kind of challenging

00:41:25.469 --> 00:41:30.146
to do gardening in the studio and
supposed to outdoor somewhere. Well, um

00:41:30.179 --> 00:41:35.916
, I had the foreman from the farm. He
would bring a truckload of uh pickup

00:41:35.949 --> 00:41:41.095
load of plants in and set up the
plants in there. And at least that all

00:41:41.128 --> 00:41:47.477
helped. I mean, they did a thing or
two like, uh, I got Bob swab who was

00:41:47.510 --> 00:41:55.510
in charge of grounds here. He was
gonna demonstrate how to start. Uh, just

00:41:55.849 --> 00:41:59.756
let it roll. You guys go ahead. I, I
need to run to the restaurant, but it

00:41:59.789 --> 00:42:04.432
is ok.

00:42:04.465 --> 00:42:09.372
Tell me again about how you did the
television program. Did you do like

00:42:09.405 --> 00:42:14.961
one a day or did you do? Oh, no, we
did these 13. I mean, we'd go over. I

00:42:14.994 --> 00:42:19.481
had my schedule, class schedule so
that I had, I think Wednesday is free

00:42:19.514 --> 00:42:26.385
or something like that. And we could
always just schedule it that day. And

00:42:26.418 --> 00:42:30.456
so we did the 13 programs and they got
through and at the end of the

00:42:30.489 --> 00:42:32.945
season, they said, well, you know,
that went pretty well. Why don't we do

00:42:32.978 --> 00:42:36.416
some more next year? I said, well, how
many? And they said, well, why

00:42:36.449 --> 00:42:42.155
don't we try 20? Well, we started then
in the fall, uh, taping and it just

00:42:42.188 --> 00:42:49.175
, it went on day and night from then
on summer and winter. I mean, if I

00:42:49.208 --> 00:42:52.816
was gonna be on a vacation, we'd have
to tape some extra ones. And in fact

00:42:52.849 --> 00:42:56.546
, I took a year sabbatical to go to
Hawaii then one year and they wanted

00:42:56.579 --> 00:43:02.486
to keep it going and I finally found
an old Rosarian who agreed to come in

00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:09.006
and do the program and for the year
and, uh, and he did and, uh, so you

00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:12.967
did like a show every week you taped
it like on Wednesday and ran it? When

00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:19.655
did it run? Well, they would run it
twice a week generally. Um, I forget

00:43:19.688 --> 00:43:25.376
just when it was scheduled now, but
it, uh, and then, uh, channel 10

00:43:25.409 --> 00:43:30.595
started running it and they would run
it at six o'clock, Sunday morning or

00:43:30.628 --> 00:43:35.606
something like that. I wonder who
would watch it. And yet you would get

00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:41.497
letters from people out in the state
who had been watching it. So it, uh,

00:43:41.530 --> 00:43:46.727
it was viewed, I think the directors
were always a little disappointed in

00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:52.666
the program and that every time they
had a survey of their locally

00:43:52.699 --> 00:43:57.106
produced programs. Gardening for fun
always came out on top. And, uh, of

00:43:57.139 --> 00:44:01.526
course, the directors, this isn't an
insult to you, but I mean, they all

00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:07.477
want to do some finer things in life,
music culture, some fancy art thing.

00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:12.606
And, uh, uh, no matter what they did,
uh, they just old bound gardening,

00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:18.327
dirty gardening. And be the most
popular program they produced. And uh not

00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:23.416
because of me, but it just the subject
I think. Um, so did you become kind

00:44:23.449 --> 00:44:29.175
of famous around the state? Did people
start recognizing you? Well,

00:44:29.208 --> 00:44:33.566
uh I don't know if famous is the right
word or not. One time I was going

00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:39.526
into Fed Bar and some of them, it's
Doctor Miller. Doctor Miller. I had a

00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:43.467
friend that saw Lee J Cobb down in
heel of bed. I'm gonna call her General.

00:44:43.500 --> 00:44:48.405
 I saw you at Fed.

00:44:48.438 --> 00:44:52.356
Well, I don't know if that's fame or
not. People didn't stop you on the

00:44:52.389 --> 00:44:55.885
street. And

00:44:55.918 --> 00:45:01.916
actually, I, I was, uh, oh,

00:45:01.949 --> 00:45:08.006
we were on a trip one time we were
going down into, uh, a ha, a Ranger

00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.796
reunion down in Tennessee. It was
actually Kentucky. And, uh, we just got

00:45:12.829 --> 00:45:16.736
into Kentucky and we stopped at a
filling station and my wife had said you

00:45:16.769 --> 00:45:22.017
better get some Cokes in there or
something for the group. And there was a

00:45:22.050 --> 00:45:28.256
car stop there. And we had flown into
ST Louis and rented a car and I went

00:45:28.289 --> 00:45:32.827
in and got this that was coming out
and some of us fellow stopped me and

00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:37.416
said, aren't you from Arizona? Yes.

00:45:37.449 --> 00:45:42.856
Aren't you in gardening? I said, well,
yes. What are you doing? Driving a

00:45:42.889 --> 00:45:47.635
Missouri car?

00:45:47.668 --> 00:45:55.668
I just rented it anyway. They were so
you never knew who you might see

00:45:55.708 --> 00:46:00.865
your neighbors start bothering you for
gardening tips too. And well, of

00:46:00.898 --> 00:46:06.445
course. And, uh, uh, Mary Lenhardt had
been in the public relations office

00:46:06.478 --> 00:46:12.017
here at the Arizona State College,
Arizona State University and she'd gone

00:46:12.050 --> 00:46:16.376
to the Republic and she was in

00:46:16.409 --> 00:46:20.477
what you call in charge of several
sections of the Republic and Sunday

00:46:20.510 --> 00:46:25.586
Republic. And he called me write
something for me. I'll pay you for it. Oh

00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:28.807
, sure, Mary, I didn't have time to
write it a couple of times. She'd

00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.626
called and it was something I want
something on sulfur. So I wrote her

00:46:32.659 --> 00:46:37.577
something and other times something I
wrote her and she called her, they

00:46:37.610 --> 00:46:41.526
ran a Sunday paper column on
gardening. And the lady who did it was

00:46:41.559 --> 00:46:45.497
getting very elderly and, uh, Mary
called, said, well, as long as she

00:46:45.530 --> 00:46:50.396
wants to do it, she can do it but she
can't do it forever. And, uh, would

00:46:50.429 --> 00:46:55.477
you be willing to do it when she
stops? And, uh, uh, in a year or two? And

00:46:55.510 --> 00:46:59.865
I said, well, I puzzled over that. I
didn't really want to get involved.

00:46:59.898 --> 00:47:05.095
But I, well, it's a research I'd have
to do would be helpful in the TV,

00:47:05.128 --> 00:47:10.986
program, helpful in my teaching and
keep me active. So I finally said,

00:47:11.019 --> 00:47:14.925
well, all right, in a year or two when
this works. Well, I'll try it, Mary

00:47:14.958 --> 00:47:19.997
, we went on a two week vacation, came
back and there's a note from Mary.

00:47:20.030 --> 00:47:24.057
I've got permission to start it now.
So I started writing a Sunday paper

00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:30.686
column and for the Republican. Oh,
that went on for 15 years, I guess. So.

00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:33.606
How long did you do the gardening show
on television? You started that

00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:41.639
one in 1963. I started, we taped the
first in February of 64 and

00:47:41.878 --> 00:47:47.467
then in the late seventies they said
we're building a mobile unit that we

00:47:47.500 --> 00:47:53.816
can go out and do things on location
and, uh, we'd like to make a series

00:47:53.849 --> 00:47:59.267
of programs and, uh, you can use it as
a class, you repeat them several

00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:02.916
times. And so

00:48:02.949 --> 00:48:10.217
we, we stopped doing the regular
program we've been doing then and, uh, we

00:48:10.250 --> 00:48:15.146
spent about a year planning what we, I
never planned much, but you got to

00:48:15.179 --> 00:48:17.936
plan, what are you going to do? Where
are you going to do it? What do you

00:48:17.969 --> 00:48:22.807
need to do it? And, uh, uh, first you
had to find a place to do it. And,

00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:30.840
uh, so we devised 13 programs for each
of the two different classes,

00:48:30.958 --> 00:48:35.477
having the same subjects with
different material in them for spring and

00:48:35.510 --> 00:48:41.756
fall semesters. And, uh, we set up a
garden area out on our farm there. Uh

00:48:41.789 --> 00:48:47.365
,

00:48:47.398 --> 00:48:53.717
anyway, we, we set it up so that, uh,
we'd have some vts out at the farm

00:48:53.750 --> 00:49:00.376
and we can take some programs there
and then, uh work it out with people

00:49:00.409 --> 00:49:06.626
that go to a, a rather scenic spot of
some kind where they were and, uh,

00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:10.706
that was kind of a job to get that all
lined up. And finally we started

00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:16.405
taping then on when I, again, my
schedule I keep Wednesday open and we

00:49:16.438 --> 00:49:20.126
could go spend Wednesday and sometimes
we tape and sometimes we wouldn't,

00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:25.615
they're building this, this vehicle
and sometimes things worked and

00:49:25.648 --> 00:49:30.787
sometimes they didn't work. And, uh,
what year was that? Oh, Lord, this

00:49:30.820 --> 00:49:38.820
must have been long about, I don't
know, 78 or something like that. 77. We

00:49:41.898 --> 00:49:45.997
would work it out with the people
involved. We get somebody to help out in

00:49:46.030 --> 00:49:51.767
the, doing the program. And, um, it's
like one time we wanted to do one on

00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:58.385
, uh, pruning trees things. And Bill
Johnson was our outstanding arborist

00:49:58.418 --> 00:50:02.655
around here. And I said, oh, Bill, you
do work for all these important

00:50:02.688 --> 00:50:08.860
people around us as you find us a
place where we can go do this program.

00:50:08.878 --> 00:50:10.878
After a couple of weeks ago, I can't come up with any place I had, uh, did

00:50:15.030 --> 00:50:21.086
you ever know Aquanetta? Ok. Um
Aquanetta had been on the advisory board

00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:26.345
of channel eight and I'd met her there
and at one time had a call from uh

00:50:26.378 --> 00:50:32.267
Initi Har, I think, who was a maid of
some kind there at, uh, at uh their

00:50:32.300 --> 00:50:37.686
house. And she had a question about a
tree. Well, I met Aquanetta and she

00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:43.845
had a question about their tree and I
said, well, I, oh, she said I tell

00:50:43.878 --> 00:50:47.896
you, I'm having a, a party such and
such tonight. Why don't you come and

00:50:47.929 --> 00:50:53.376
bring your wife and you can see the
tree. So I, well, that's different. So

00:50:53.409 --> 00:51:00.626
I took my wife and we went up to this
party and we uh I saw the tree, a

00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:08.436
mulberry tree and uh we went out in
this mob of humanity she had there and

00:51:08.469 --> 00:51:15.456
, and then this Nishihara I never
seen. But anyway, she came up and Doctor

00:51:15.489 --> 00:51:22.155
Miller, you're here. Oh, let me get
Doc Mr Ross. And she dragged me, Mr

00:51:22.188 --> 00:51:29.115
Ross. Mr Ross. Doctor Miller is here.
Oh, he says, oh, nice. How nice. You

00:51:29.148 --> 00:51:32.425
finally got to meet a celebrity.

00:51:32.458 --> 00:51:35.925
Of course, he just run for governor.

00:51:35.958 --> 00:51:42.977
Anyway. Anyway, it was, anyway, that
was my acquaintance. And so when Bill

00:51:43.010 --> 00:51:49.247
couldn't come up with, I called, I
called her. I said we tape, this is

00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:54.416
your first director had. Well, he
looked at it and said, well, if she

00:51:54.449 --> 00:52:00.155
won't be in it, you can do it. So
anyway, we, we went up there and taped

00:52:00.188 --> 00:52:05.497
this program on uh pruning that where
you can climb trees, you could climb

00:52:05.530 --> 00:52:09.606
out in the back and uh rather
scenically, but you didn't get up with that

00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:16.977
on your shower. No, that would have
been interesting generation. So, um

00:52:17.010 --> 00:52:22.416
well, talk a little bit more about
your career at uh a su um you know,

00:52:22.449 --> 00:52:29.186
that you were busy doing a lot of
things. Well, I was kind of in charge of

00:52:29.219 --> 00:52:35.695
the horticultural group as

00:52:35.728 --> 00:52:40.635
life went on rather smoothly.

00:52:40.668 --> 00:52:46.236
Whole life never goes on smoothly. I
mean, our early years here we had to

00:52:46.269 --> 00:52:50.936
uh I never got into politics but you
got into things like the John Birch

00:52:50.969 --> 00:52:57.287
Republican or John Birch Group and uh
they, they're trying to get a state

00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.865
law passed that you have to swear
allegiance to the state. It didn't

00:53:00.898 --> 00:53:06.506
mention the constitution and the law
at all. And uh Doctor Weldon

00:53:06.539 --> 00:53:12.066
Schafstall, dean of Students was the

00:53:12.099 --> 00:53:18.166
uh local representative of the group.
Anyway, at the Toastmasters meeting

00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:22.057
one morning, he told how he'd been
down at the state Capitol lobbying to

00:53:22.090 --> 00:53:27.256
get this law passed. And uh the next
Sunday, I came out, the next meeting

00:53:27.289 --> 00:53:32.905
, I came out and got up in a table top
or something. I proposed that he be

00:53:32.938 --> 00:53:37.537
fired because he was trying to get me
fired because he was advocating this

00:53:37.570 --> 00:53:42.856
law and I could never sign an oath
like that. And that meant I would be

00:53:42.889 --> 00:53:45.865
out of a job. And if you're going to
get me fired, I think we should get

00:53:45.898 --> 00:53:49.506
him fired first. And

00:53:49.539 --> 00:53:56.506
anyway, that upset him and uh his wife
said he will never go back to

00:53:56.539 --> 00:54:04.539
Toastmasters. All that Miller is there
anyway. Ok. Uh We had things like

00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:10.885
President Durham calls a special
faculty meeting and the former, the

00:54:10.918 --> 00:54:16.595
police chief in Utah comes down and
tells how a friend of his tells him

00:54:16.628 --> 00:54:21.017
he's got, I think 5000 men under arms
waiting for him just to give the

00:54:21.050 --> 00:54:25.836
word so they can take over the
government. And I mean, this is, that's

00:54:25.869 --> 00:54:33.267
what we were fighting. And, um,
anyway, I became for some reason, elected

00:54:33.300 --> 00:54:38.557
chairman of the faculty assembly long
about 63 or something like that. And

00:54:38.590 --> 00:54:44.175
, and we've been fighting over our
constitution and the first meeting in

00:54:44.208 --> 00:54:49.195
the fall, I,

00:54:49.228 --> 00:54:54.416
we finally got the constitutional
issue settled that day. But after being

00:54:54.449 --> 00:54:59.467
elected to that in the summer, we were
going to um meetings or

00:54:59.500 --> 00:55:04.856
horticulture meetings up in uh
Massachusetts at the University of

00:55:04.889 --> 00:55:10.256
Massachusetts. And before I left Danny
Keegan, who was my next door

00:55:10.289 --> 00:55:15.095
neighbor said, hey, have you heard
that Vice President Richard is going to

00:55:15.128 --> 00:55:19.865
Richardson is going to be relieved of
his duties. And I said, no, I hadn't

00:55:19.898 --> 00:55:24.986
heard that. And uh while I was back in
Illinois, I got a letter from Denny.

00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:28.807
He sent a clipping out of the paper.
Vice President Richardson had asked

00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:33.557
to be reassigned to teaching and
relieved of his administrative duties.

00:55:33.590 --> 00:55:40.307
And uh he was being uh replaced by
Doctor John Ryan, who was currently at

00:55:40.340 --> 00:55:45.635
the University of Massachusetts as an
aide to the president or something.

00:55:45.668 --> 00:55:51.787
And we were on our way there. So when
we got there, I, well, what should

00:55:51.820 --> 00:55:56.537
I do? I, I finally, I went to the
president's office there and I looked

00:55:56.570 --> 00:56:03.977
for John Ryan and they, they got me to
him. He was a delightful person and

00:56:04.010 --> 00:56:08.425
uh uh he wanted to get together with
he and his wife that night, my wife

00:56:08.458 --> 00:56:14.316
and learn something about schools and
things like that here. So we, we had

00:56:14.349 --> 00:56:18.477
a, an instant acquaintance you might
say with our new vice president there

00:56:18.510 --> 00:56:23.287
, which I always liked him very much.

00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:27.356
What, what was the, the most special
thing about your career here? What do

00:56:27.389 --> 00:56:35.227
you remember or proud of? Well, it
endured that. Uh

00:56:35.260 --> 00:56:40.376
Why shouldn't it injure? Well,
agriculture was always being kept balanced

00:56:40.409 --> 00:56:44.997
, should it exist or shouldn't it
exist? The U of A was always fighting.

00:56:45.030 --> 00:56:52.046
And finally, they, at one time, they
were discussing this and uh had a

00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:58.175
regents hearing and uh should they
split up agriculture? And we had three

00:56:58.208 --> 00:57:03.287
different groups. Really? And I went
to the hearing. I, I did the old

00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:08.796
stick, the old thing of wrapping three
sticks together if you can't break

00:57:08.829 --> 00:57:14.135
this, but you take them apart as they
were talking of doing. Now here goes

00:57:14.168 --> 00:57:20.405
ag business. He snaps at the flint fly
and here's ag science and here's ag

00:57:20.438 --> 00:57:26.175
production. I like to hit one of the
regions

00:57:26.208 --> 00:57:33.307
I did rather violently anyway, you had
things like that going on. And uh

00:57:33.340 --> 00:57:39.126
ultimately, uh one of the regions who
had received many awards from Tucson.

00:57:39.159 --> 00:57:41.467
 Uh

00:57:41.500 --> 00:57:49.500
Well, we should have a study of
agriculture in the state and just study

00:57:49.579 --> 00:57:55.646
with their study, they concluded that
uh well, Arizona State should not be

00:57:55.679 --> 00:57:59.577
in production agriculture. If they're
not in production agriculture, they

00:57:59.610 --> 00:58:02.956
don't need a farm, but that's where
you produce things. And so they take

00:58:02.989 --> 00:58:10.989
the farm away. So anyway, they, this
proceeded and happened and, and Dean

00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:19.425
Thompson at one time,

00:58:19.458 --> 00:58:24.416
Doctor Robinson went off on your
sabbatical and he said, well, you take

00:58:24.449 --> 00:58:31.856
over. So I'm taking over and the dean
calls me over and he said, well, you

00:58:31.889 --> 00:58:38.327
can't do that. I said, oh, all right.
So fine. So I go back but nothing

00:58:38.360 --> 00:58:44.436
else happened. So I go ahead. I, I
signed things and I was finding it.

00:58:44.469 --> 00:58:49.945
 Victor J Miller S A uh director.

00:58:49.978 --> 00:58:54.276
I said, what does that mean? Self
apoint.

00:58:54.309 --> 00:59:02.309
So anyway, and it worked anyway,
ultimately, the dean comes up with a

00:59:03.829 --> 00:59:11.829
professor Soderbergh who is of unknown
lineage, unknown qualifications to

00:59:13.389 --> 00:59:19.506
be director of Agriculture for a
while. And so he's in the position and

00:59:19.539 --> 00:59:23.666
I'm sure he had some good qualities,
but he knew nothing really about

00:59:23.699 --> 00:59:29.865
agriculture and it was an
embarrassment to have him around at times. And

00:59:29.898 --> 00:59:35.307
uh and we didn't really know what was
the CIA or wasn't he? I mean, we

00:59:35.340 --> 00:59:42.017
were into that very realistically, we
were puzzling and unable to find out

00:59:42.050 --> 00:59:47.307
anything and why is he here? And what
is his position? And what is he

00:59:47.340 --> 00:59:53.767
supposed to do? And finally, we kind
of had a revolution and it got into

00:59:53.800 --> 00:59:59.385
the legislature. And finally the dean
says, well, no, I really hadn't

00:59:59.418 --> 01:00:03.166
meant to have him there permanently.
We're going,

01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:11.199
ultimately, he was ousted and we had a
good one put in. We had and it was

01:00:11.438 --> 01:00:17.206
always a little stretch. Well, if you,
agriculture just might be abolished

01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:25.239
and that would be the end of it. So,
you're, uh, I had some traumatic

01:00:25.510 --> 01:00:30.316
times with my little self. But, uh, do
I go along with this and fight this

01:00:30.349 --> 01:00:36.546
? I mean, let's face it. There's
probably 70 people with their livelihood

01:00:36.579 --> 01:00:41.220
is dependent. I'm taking you now, the
professors and there's families and

01:00:41.253 --> 01:00:46.041
these people are all depending on
these jobs. And do I risk having them

01:00:46.074 --> 01:00:51.211
all wiped out? And, uh, finally you
get to the point? Well, yes, my pride

01:00:51.244 --> 01:00:56.240
is such that I cannot go on this way.
We need to do something and then no

01:00:56.273 --> 01:01:02.345
matter what the repercussions are. And
so we got into a lot of trouble,

01:01:02.378 --> 01:01:07.747
but it seemed like just being a
peaceful group. Actually, Agri did good

01:01:07.780 --> 01:01:12.876
Ernie Parker who was our professor of
poultry husbandry. At one time, he

01:01:12.909 --> 01:01:16.776
would put on a chicken dinner for the
faculty of Arizona State for a

01:01:16.809 --> 01:01:21.796
dollar. And I mean, they put on and
then we'd have hay rides out on the

01:01:21.829 --> 01:01:27.845
farm and, uh, barbecues out there. And
so we, we did more in activities

01:01:27.878 --> 01:01:32.856
really than any other institution in
the, on the campus. You mentioned

01:01:32.889 --> 01:01:36.316
several times about the farm why don't
you tell us for those of us that?

01:01:36.349 --> 01:01:40.017
Now you listen to this tape later,
where was the farm? Well, at that time

01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:45.655
, the farm was a half section of land
that's 320 acres, which is between

01:01:45.688 --> 01:01:50.675
Elliott and Warner Rhodes. And it was
on the east side of price. So it was

01:01:50.708 --> 01:01:56.186
a half section of land there which
when I came to Arizona State College,

01:01:56.219 --> 01:02:01.236
the farm was just a couple blocks
south of Broadway and they actually own

01:02:01.269 --> 01:02:05.666
40 acres of land on each side of Mill
Avenue. And uh then they had the

01:02:05.699 --> 01:02:09.945
other land leased down to Southern
Avenue. So they had quite a bit of land

01:02:09.978 --> 01:02:15.256
under their control, but only owned 80
acres. And uh but they had already

01:02:15.289 --> 01:02:20.396
acquired this half section and then
they started developing that and uh so

01:02:20.429 --> 01:02:26.146
they could get out of downtown Tempe,
so to speak. And um we

01:02:26.179 --> 01:02:30.876
horticulturalist were the least
objectionable. So they got out the uh the

01:02:30.909 --> 01:02:37.776
pigs and the cows and things like that
for the chickens. And uh uh then

01:02:37.809 --> 01:02:42.307
after everybody else had gotten their
buildings and barns, why then

01:02:42.340 --> 01:02:46.695
horticulture was to move? But by that
time, oh, gosh, we've, we just don't

01:02:46.728 --> 01:02:54.206
have money left. Well, because of my
great foresight, they had to build

01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:59.236
horticulture. I had designed what I
wanted out there in the way of a

01:02:59.269 --> 01:03:05.276
little classroom and a little
laboratory and uh the greenhouse and the

01:03:05.309 --> 01:03:13.309
lath house and uh, and uh, his and
hers and two toilets, no one else had

01:03:13.809 --> 01:03:19.405
designed in toilets on the farm. All
the other buildings had no toilets.

01:03:19.438 --> 01:03:24.057
So they had to build horticulture
because it would be essential to have

01:03:24.090 --> 01:03:28.385
toilets there. So, because of that
great foresight, I didn't realize I had

01:03:28.418 --> 01:03:32.967
that much foresight but it, uh, it
came out that way. And when was that

01:03:33.000 --> 01:03:35.006
built?

01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:43.039
Well, I don't really know the exact
date. It long about, uh

01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:51.760
I would say long about 62 63 64 right
in there. So they, we moved off and

01:03:52.619 --> 01:03:55.615
uh

01:03:55.648 --> 01:04:02.557
left to land here later. Do pre
President Durham got Doctor Robinson and

01:04:02.590 --> 01:04:08.046
drove him out to the Macy's Station
along by Tricity Mall and their palm

01:04:08.079 --> 01:04:14.736
trees and this and that and now this
looks nice. I want the old farm look

01:04:14.769 --> 01:04:20.845
better than it is. We'd already left
it, but we, uh I organized some

01:04:20.878 --> 01:04:27.175
landscaping and we planted a perimeter
around there of uh trees primarily.

01:04:27.208 --> 01:04:31.666
And so at least some of them are still
living along Mill Avenue there

01:04:31.699 --> 01:04:39.699
that some of the Canary Island Palms
and some of the other palms. Why we

01:04:39.780 --> 01:04:42.956
were told that we had to fix it up
after we'd already left it. I don't

01:04:42.989 --> 01:04:48.336
know, but we did the old, the farm
that you moved to isn't there anymore.

01:04:48.369 --> 01:04:55.376
It's the A su research park. But uh
this is,

01:04:55.409 --> 01:05:02.807
uh uh let's say one of the things we
had done uh the University of Arizona

01:05:02.840 --> 01:05:07.925
Citrus Station out here on South
priest, uh they

01:05:07.958 --> 01:05:12.307
Bob Hilgeman who was running that had
been interested in date palms and he

01:05:12.340 --> 01:05:18.695
had some med jewel date Palms out
there along with citrus. And uh we had

01:05:18.728 --> 01:05:25.316
gone out there with a class and taken
offshoots as a class exercise and

01:05:25.349 --> 01:05:33.349
planted out at our new farm. And uh
those lived and uh ultimately were

01:05:33.409 --> 01:05:39.836
producing and made jeweled and they're
still out there now. They've been

01:05:39.869 --> 01:05:47.869
transplanted a couple of times. And um
that's how the arboretum got

01:05:48.539 --> 01:05:54.456
started. Uh packaging dates and so on.
It became a thing that they seem to

01:05:54.489 --> 01:05:57.836
do every year.

01:05:57.869 --> 01:06:02.135
Talk just a little bit about how
agriculture has changed here on campus

01:06:02.168 --> 01:06:08.827
and in general, in Arizona over the
years, well, of course, from our

01:06:08.860 --> 01:06:13.816
classes in fruits and vegetables and
landscaping and environmental

01:06:13.849 --> 01:06:17.066
horticulture, uh

01:06:17.099 --> 01:06:24.385
uh the horticulturist that we had
after I retired, they were moved into

01:06:24.418 --> 01:06:29.776
the uh matinee department, which I,
I'm not sure what it is now biology of

01:06:29.809 --> 01:06:37.809
some kind, I guess. Um So and of
course, no more production or that kind.

01:06:39.989 --> 01:06:47.086
But uh my thought had been that in
this area and this is where I started

01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:51.267
a class in environmental horticulture
and the lawns and greens that the

01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:56.276
landscaping part of things was going
to be more important than the fruits

01:06:56.309 --> 01:07:00.405
and vegetables, certainly
commercially.

01:07:00.438 --> 01:07:05.615
And that has turned out to be the case
of when 40 acres of cotton land

01:07:05.648 --> 01:07:11.115
goes into houses, the value of
horticulture increases greatly because you

01:07:11.148 --> 01:07:15.936
have all the uh the uh nursery stock
that's going to be purchased and

01:07:15.969 --> 01:07:22.977
planted there and uh uh irrigation
systems and uh fertilizers,

01:07:23.010 --> 01:07:28.497
some of the pest control products. And
so, in that sense, it's gone from

01:07:28.530 --> 01:07:36.530
uh feel a culture of crops to uh lawns
and gardens and uh golf courses and

01:07:37.958 --> 01:07:44.336
parks. And so that's been the big
change. Of course, the school of

01:07:44.369 --> 01:07:51.219
agriculture. Now I've been business is
business and, uh, rather than crops.

01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:54.159
Um, you kind of a, you foresaw that, I guess with your home gardening

01:07:55.958 --> 01:07:59.986
television show, you were really
focusing on home gardening back 40 years

01:08:00.019 --> 01:08:02.267
ago.

01:08:02.300 --> 01:08:08.626
Um, what are you proudest of, from her
years of a u,

01:08:08.659 --> 01:08:10.956
well,

01:08:10.989 --> 01:08:18.305
I guess I survived. Uh, but, uh, I
don't know,

01:08:18.338 --> 01:08:21.316
we,

01:08:21.349 --> 01:08:29.246
uh, I guess the TV programs we did
would be, uh, uh, a somewhat living

01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:33.567
legacy and people remember what they
saw, uh, way of reaching an, a lot

01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:38.626
more people than just in the
classroom. And, uh, at least I felt that way

01:08:38.659 --> 01:08:43.286
. I, if I hadn't been a full
professor, I couldn't have done that. I did

01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:49.756
some research but, uh, uh, uh, when
you're taking full time, uh, you don't

01:08:49.789 --> 01:08:53.817
have a whole lot of time otherwise.
And, uh, doing these programs, at

01:08:53.850 --> 01:09:01.850
least I did reach a lot of people and,
uh, I did things like, uh, I made a

01:09:02.100 --> 01:09:08.476
couple of tapes for plant walks on the
campus and put these in the, in the

01:09:08.509 --> 01:09:13.317
uh Union building and put a tape
recorder two in there that people could

01:09:13.350 --> 01:09:18.156
take these tapes and, and the
literature and go for a walk around the

01:09:18.189 --> 01:09:26.189
campus and in those specified areas
and learn something about the plants.

01:09:26.229 --> 01:09:31.786
No su really has become, you mentioned
the arboretum. The A su arboretum

01:09:31.819 --> 01:09:37.845
is truly the whole camp. Did you have
much to do with that? Uh More in

01:09:37.878 --> 01:09:42.406
sympathy than anything else? Uh Joe
Tyler is the one, he was one of my

01:09:42.439 --> 01:09:46.805
students and he's the one that had
always wanted to have an arboretum. And

01:09:46.838 --> 01:09:53.286
after he sold his nursery business, he
came to work here and uh he wrote

01:09:53.319 --> 01:10:00.345
up the proposal to call it an
arboretum which went through, I wrote a

01:10:00.378 --> 01:10:06.467
letter supporting that and it, uh it
kept getting approved up the line

01:10:06.500 --> 01:10:10.515
until the president appointed a
committee to study it and recommend to him

01:10:10.548 --> 01:10:14.786
whether he should call it an arboretum
or not. I was on that committee and

01:10:14.819 --> 01:10:22.819
uh we checked with the places around
the country, uh say what difference

01:10:22.819 --> 01:10:26.156
it make, whether he calls it our breed
or not. Well, you have to keep

01:10:26.189 --> 01:10:31.055
records on the plants. You have to
have it open for the public to see and

01:10:31.088 --> 01:10:38.015
where they're going to park. Well,
always a problem. But anyway, I, I was

01:10:38.048 --> 01:10:45.126
somewhat involved but uh not doing too
much work.

01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:50.107
Um, what advice do you give to young
people today that are starting off

01:10:50.140 --> 01:10:57.265
and choosing careers? And, uh, I think
they have to do something that they

01:10:57.298 --> 01:11:02.027
can enjoy doing something that's a
challenge to them. Something that they

01:11:02.060 --> 01:11:07.967
can be happy doing. I can't see
getting into anything where you're going

01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.616
to be unhappy all through the day
because you don't like the work you're

01:11:11.649 --> 01:11:17.237
doing and whether it brings in less
money, you still should be doing

01:11:17.270 --> 01:11:21.826
something you like. And, uh, so as to
what school, I don't know that it

01:11:21.859 --> 01:11:28.576
matters much for most people. Which
one they go to, whether it's a, if

01:11:28.609 --> 01:11:31.357
you're a high,

01:11:31.390 --> 01:11:36.845
high octane mathematicians, then that
may enter in just which school you

01:11:36.878 --> 01:11:41.796
go to and, but uh for the average
person I think they could go to most any

01:11:41.829 --> 01:11:47.826
and come out with the education they
want and hopefully get a job they

01:11:47.859 --> 01:11:50.357
would like.

01:11:50.390 --> 01:11:52.916
Did you have anything on your notes
that you wanted to bring up that I

01:11:52.949 --> 01:12:00.487
didn't ask you about? No, I just, uh,
no, it's, it's been an interesting,

01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:03.296
uh,

01:12:03.329 --> 01:12:10.135
an interesting ride here, ups and
downs and, uh, but it's, uh, I've always

01:12:10.168 --> 01:12:16.206
enjoyed it. I, I enjoyed the, the
library. I used to take my classes up to

01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:20.866
the spatial collections room and
they'd bring out. I mean, most of my

01:12:20.899 --> 01:12:24.076
students would never get to a place
like that, but they'd bring out some

01:12:24.109 --> 01:12:29.687
of the old books of the hand painted
pictures and things in there and, uh

01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:34.845
, the plants and this and that, and,
you know, a little more culture you

01:12:34.878 --> 01:12:41.166
might say than they get otherwise.
But, I mean, people, that's the thing I

01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:44.416
found about here, the people, like,
they didn't go lean over backwards to

01:12:44.449 --> 01:12:49.376
do whatever they could to help you in
your class and get things for you.

01:12:49.409 --> 01:12:54.196
So, that's what I, I've enjoyed that
here. Did you ever think when you

01:12:54.229 --> 01:12:58.786
came out to Arizona for that first job
that you'd spend the rest of your

01:12:58.819 --> 01:13:05.107
life out here? Well, after we'd been
here two or three years, one of my

01:13:05.140 --> 01:13:10.256
students had been from Green Acres
mortuary and, uh, some fellow from

01:13:10.289 --> 01:13:16.996
there came around selling cemetery
lots and, uh, I said, well, maybe we

01:13:17.029 --> 01:13:23.607
should buy lots. I mean, I think we're
probably going to stay here. So we

01:13:23.640 --> 01:13:28.946
had lots. So I guess that's an
indication of how I felt about the place

01:13:28.979 --> 01:13:33.446
early on. You thought that this was
gonna be home? What you, you, it's a

01:13:33.479 --> 01:13:36.446
lot different from coming from the
Midwest. But what about that first

01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:42.256
summer? Did that give you some doubts?
Well,

01:13:42.289 --> 01:13:46.095
I found that if I stepped out the door
and stopped and took a deep breath

01:13:46.128 --> 01:13:51.956
and braced myself and took off. It was
like that first summer I thought we

01:13:51.989 --> 01:13:56.446
should do. What do they grow here? I
mean, what I mean? Uh, for landscape

01:13:56.479 --> 01:14:03.746
plants, we went around um older areas
of Tempe, newer areas of Tempe and

01:14:03.779 --> 01:14:09.467
went into lots, uh just evaluate
listed and evaluated every plant they had

01:14:09.500 --> 01:14:16.226
there. And what location was it
growing in? And uh so on. And so to get an

01:14:16.259 --> 01:14:20.906
idea, just what are all the plants
being used here in landscaping. And so

01:14:20.939 --> 01:14:26.576
you, you spent the day out in the
middle of the summer doing this, then

01:14:26.609 --> 01:14:30.937
we'd stop and get us a root beer
float.

01:14:30.970 --> 01:14:35.976
And uh you figure you in agriculture,
you're going to be out there no

01:14:36.009 --> 01:14:39.586
matter what the temperature is.

01:14:39.619 --> 01:14:43.476
I think that about covers my
questions. Do you have anything man? I think

01:14:43.509 --> 01:14:49.777
he's covered quite a bit of thing.
Anything else you wanted to tell us?

01:14:49.810 --> 01:14:53.196
Well,

01:14:53.229 --> 01:14:58.546
I don't know of anything else. Very
unusual. I, I'm just sorry. Some of

01:14:58.579 --> 01:15:02.515
the fellows that used to tell me
stories about some of the things that

01:15:02.548 --> 01:15:07.286
happened back during World War Two
here with their limited problems and

01:15:07.319 --> 01:15:11.996
the things they did for jokes they
played on Katie and things like that

01:15:12.029 --> 01:15:17.206
that uh uh like the time they were
going to get a mortuary college started

01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:21.006
here. So they bring in students,

01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:24.656
of course, no mortuary people knew
about this. Only the people who are

01:15:24.689 --> 01:15:29.256
playing a trick on Katie knew about
this Vice President Katy or the time

01:15:29.289 --> 01:15:35.175
they build up a I think it was Marlow
Key telling about building a out of

01:15:35.208 --> 01:15:39.175
scrap metal, a great contraption and
they notified Katie, they were

01:15:39.208 --> 01:15:43.246
sending this to the Metropolitan
Museum of Art in New York because they

01:15:43.279 --> 01:15:48.397
want to share art with the hinterlands
here. So they had to help everybody

01:15:48.430 --> 01:15:53.467
out for this great unveiling. There
was this sculpture.

01:15:53.500 --> 01:15:57.876
I mean, I guess we just didn't have
fun like that in these later years.

01:15:57.909 --> 01:16:05.055
But uh university grew from the small
little college to a true big city

01:16:05.088 --> 01:16:08.916
university. Yes. The two brick streets
that crossed in the middle of the

01:16:08.949 --> 01:16:13.095
campus disappeared. And now you just
have to walk there. Is that progress

01:16:13.128 --> 01:16:19.298
? Instead of driving, we have to walk,
you know?