WEBVTT 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:05.467 Hello, my name is Cynthia. I am here with Jesus doing an oral history 00:00:05.500 --> 00:00:11.665 interview for the project Undocumented Voices. It is April 23rd, 2015 and 00:00:11.698 --> 00:00:16.337 I'm here at C Hall at the A U Tempe campus. Hello, Jesus. Could you please 00:00:16.370 --> 00:00:19.546 state your name and give me your formal consent that we can use this 00:00:19.579 --> 00:00:24.646 interview? Yeah, my name is Jesus Meros and I provide you my consent. 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:28.425 Thank you. Uh for starters. Could you tell me something more about your 00:00:28.458 --> 00:00:32.445 personal background? Yeah. Sure. Uh So I was born in Ciudad Juarez, 00:00:32.478 --> 00:00:36.546 Chihuahua Mexico and I came here to the United States when I was six years 00:00:36.579 --> 00:00:43.296 old. Um I didn't become naturalized until the age of 16. Almost. It was 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:48.426 almost a 10 year process for me to go through uh immigration and family 00:00:48.459 --> 00:00:53.717 immigration processes specifically. And so I consider myself um one of the 00:00:53.750 --> 00:00:57.226 lucky ones, right? Uh in the sense that my dad and I were the only ones 00:00:57.259 --> 00:01:05.066 that were born in Mexico uh were able to be petitioned by my mother. Um So 00:01:05.099 --> 00:01:07.176 that's kind of a little bit of my background. There's five people in my 00:01:07.209 --> 00:01:11.516 family and um that's within my immediate family and within my extended 00:01:11.549 --> 00:01:16.995 family. Um I do have relatives that are undocumented. Um I grew up in a 00:01:17.028 --> 00:01:22.816 predominant Latino border town and so immigration issues were not very 00:01:22.849 --> 00:01:28.867 uncommon. How was your experience of being born and growing up in Mexico? 00:01:28.900 --> 00:01:33.126 Yeah. So I think because I came here at such a young age and I started 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:38.266 first grade here all the way to where I am now. I think I remember 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:42.236 struggling at the beginning only because of I grew up in a border town. So 00:01:42.269 --> 00:01:46.867 I really moved from Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua to El Paso Texas. And that 00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:52.635 was, I mean, the border is right between us. But I think the greatest 00:01:52.668 --> 00:01:57.516 challenge for me was coping with the stigma of being born on the other 00:01:57.549 --> 00:02:00.846 side of the border. I think even though it was a predominantly Latino 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:05.217 community in El Paso, there was this inherent stigma towards those who 00:02:05.250 --> 00:02:08.566 were born in Juarez. It's like it, it was almost like a class system, 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:13.275 right? So you were less than if you were born in Juarez. Um And so I 00:02:13.308 --> 00:02:18.156 remember growing up hiding that, hiding the fact that I, I was not a US 00:02:18.189 --> 00:02:22.085 citizen and that I was not born in the U si remember lying a lot of the 00:02:22.118 --> 00:02:26.487 time um in in school when people would ask where, where I was born or 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.686 whenever we had projects like that, just because I wanted to avoid the 00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:34.025 stigma, the bullying, the harassment and so forth that was often imposed 00:02:34.058 --> 00:02:38.745 upon, you know, immigrant Children based on their accent, their skin color 00:02:38.778 --> 00:02:45.346 and their place of birth. How was your experience going to high school? Um 00:02:45.379 --> 00:02:51.987 You know, to be honest with you, um immigration or my immigrant experience 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:56.975 , I think I just kind of repressed it and I didn't really think about it 00:02:57.008 --> 00:03:04.005 or talk about it beyond when I was asked where I was born. Um And I think 00:03:04.038 --> 00:03:07.606 a lot of that had to do with the fact that it was a predominant Latino 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:12.025 environment. And so it was almost taken for granted, like everyone had 00:03:12.058 --> 00:03:18.237 some kind of immigrant experience. And so for me, I didn't really come to 00:03:18.270 --> 00:03:22.856 embrace my immigration story until I got to college. And that's because 00:03:22.889 --> 00:03:28.396 being in college helped me understand the value and diversity, the value 00:03:28.429 --> 00:03:31.866 in being different and coming from a different country, coming from a 00:03:31.899 --> 00:03:35.547 different background and so forth. And so it really shifted from coming uh 00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:39.457 within a predominantly Latino environment to coming to a more diverse, 00:03:39.490 --> 00:03:44.286 predominantly white environment. Um but also with a strong international 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.606 student presence. And so I think that's what propelled me to really 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.356 embrace, you know, what I was born in Mexico and, and that's cool, like 00:03:50.389 --> 00:03:53.967 there's nothing wrong with that. Um But high school, I think for me, it 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:57.446 was just, you know, just like every other student, I didn't have to 00:03:57.479 --> 00:04:03.005 struggle or think about anything in terms of limitations because like I 00:04:03.038 --> 00:04:07.346 said, I was lucky enough to be petitioned by my mother. And so even though 00:04:07.379 --> 00:04:11.305 that process took 10 years, I was protected through legal permanent 00:04:11.338 --> 00:04:14.606 residency. Right. And so I, I really didn't have anything to compare to 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:18.507 other students. I wasn't aware of undocumented students. I wasn't aware of 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:23.226 undocumented issues. And that's partly because I was so involved with my 00:04:23.259 --> 00:04:30.305 own education. Uh I think for me, it was very important to finance my way 00:04:30.338 --> 00:04:36.856 through to college. And I think that was inculcated by my parents. Um what 00:04:36.889 --> 00:04:39.786 we refer to as a sacrifice, you know, that our parents make moving to 00:04:39.819 --> 00:04:45.745 another country and with the that intent being that their Children, me, my 00:04:45.778 --> 00:04:52.606 sister, my brother and I um that we are able to get an education, obtain a 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:58.467 career and surpass, you know, the conditions that we were living in. We 00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:02.236 were very, coming from a very humble background. And part of the reason 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:07.546 why um my parents tell me that we left where I was at is because it was a 00:05:07.579 --> 00:05:11.586 very unsafe environment. Um We didn't really have a house. We were 00:05:11.619 --> 00:05:17.836 constantly like moving around. Um My, my dad struggled to find jobs and my 00:05:17.869 --> 00:05:23.627 mom was working as a cashier as a clerk within a Super Center. But I mean 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:29.137 , that didn't pay the bills for five people. And so when my mom had the 00:05:29.170 --> 00:05:32.377 opportunity to, 00:05:32.410 --> 00:05:38.757 to become naturalized. Um She really took that as an opportunity to kind 00:05:38.790 --> 00:05:43.575 of bring the family over and start over with uh an environment that was 00:05:43.608 --> 00:05:48.406 more conducive economically to what we needed. What kind of education did 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:50.507 you receive? 00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:56.046 Um in K 12? Yeah, or in, in higher education. 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.447 So I went to Gaston High School in Anthony, New Mexico. And I have to say 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:05.086 I was, I was very blessed to always be surrounded by amazing teachers. Um 00:06:05.119 --> 00:06:11.106 amazing teachers who really challenged me to think about who I was and 00:06:11.139 --> 00:06:14.967 what I, I contributed um beyond what I was able to understand about myself 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:20.296 at the time. And that really propelled me to think about. Um I always knew 00:06:20.329 --> 00:06:23.296 I wanted to go to college, but I never knew why or for what I just knew I 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:26.916 wanted to go to college because my parents wanted me to go to college. Uh 00:06:26.949 --> 00:06:31.567 But I think that really pushed me into more of the engineering. That's, 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:38.555 that's when I went into my undergrad seeking to study. However, uh that 00:06:38.588 --> 00:06:41.486 was only because I was good at math. And I was told that I was good at 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.437 math and I was told that there weren't a lot of Latinos in engineering and 00:06:45.470 --> 00:06:49.726 so forth and trying to get us into stem fields and so forth. Um And even 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:53.257 though I was good at it, it just didn't drive me, it didn't fill me, it 00:06:53.290 --> 00:07:00.916 wasn't my passion. So I I ended up um changing my major to journalism and 00:07:00.949 --> 00:07:05.336 mass communications with an emphasis in public relations. And I think that 00:07:05.369 --> 00:07:08.015 was just kind of 00:07:08.048 --> 00:07:13.296 to give me something to do. Um what I found was really driving my passion 00:07:13.329 --> 00:07:18.176 was working with students on campus. So while I was at New Mexico State 00:07:18.209 --> 00:07:22.447 University, I worked as a resident assistant. So I lived on campus in the 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:28.236 in the residence halls and I did social academic uh diversity programming 00:07:28.269 --> 00:07:32.606 for students. And it was amazing, I loved it. I loved the aspect of being 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:39.245 able to engaged students, being able to organize students, right? Uh for 00:07:39.278 --> 00:07:42.937 different purposes. And so when I found out that there was actually a 00:07:42.970 --> 00:07:46.575 career in student affairs Higher Education Administration, that's when I 00:07:46.608 --> 00:07:49.937 decided to pursue my masters in Higher Education Administration, Student 00:07:49.970 --> 00:07:54.717 Affairs. And so for that, I went to Texas A and M University and that's 00:07:54.750 --> 00:08:00.426 when I really became involved in student affairs uh advising and housing. 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:04.176 That's where I worked. I went from working as a student in housing to 00:08:04.209 --> 00:08:08.536 working as a paraprofessional in housing. Um The thing about being at 00:08:08.569 --> 00:08:11.245 Texas A and M University is that, that was another cultural shift, right? 00:08:11.278 --> 00:08:16.055 Because I went from Las Cruces, New Mexico where there's still a strong 00:08:16.088 --> 00:08:21.555 Latino presence to College Station, Texas where um it was a lot harder to 00:08:21.588 --> 00:08:25.416 find other Latinos on campus. And so I think that's the first time that I 00:08:25.449 --> 00:08:31.507 was really able to question, you know, what am I? Because prior to that, I 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:35.946 think I had also taken my race for granted because everyone around me 00:08:35.979 --> 00:08:40.657 looked like me. But at College station, the majority of the people around 00:08:40.690 --> 00:08:44.446 me did not look like me, they were black or white. And I think Latinos 00:08:44.479 --> 00:08:49.895 were not as visible. And so when I was there, that's when I really started 00:08:49.928 --> 00:08:54.005 to develop my identity as, as a Latino because I understood what it meant 00:08:54.038 --> 00:08:57.537 for what I finally understood what it meant to be a minority because I 00:08:57.570 --> 00:09:02.576 really was a minority and I stood out and 00:09:02.609 --> 00:09:07.226 yeah, it was, it was just one of those experiences that I look back at and 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:12.066 I wonder, I wonder why it took me so long to really understand myself as a 00:09:12.099 --> 00:09:15.807 Latino and what that meant. So that was also the time we got really 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:20.015 interested in education. Yeah. So education definitely uh student affairs 00:09:20.048 --> 00:09:24.667 , I mean, that's all it is. It's about helping um students develop through 00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:28.765 college, whether that's their racial identity development, their sexual 00:09:28.798 --> 00:09:34.606 identity development, their ethical moral um and so forth. So I think even 00:09:34.639 --> 00:09:37.407 just being in that program and preparing myself to work within the field 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:42.066 of higher education and student affairs that helped me personally to 00:09:42.099 --> 00:09:45.765 really come into terms with um my racial identity, my immigrant background 00:09:45.798 --> 00:09:49.686 and then eventually my sexual identity as well. That's when I came out as 00:09:49.719 --> 00:09:57.719 um as queer um LGBT Q and it was during um my education at San University. 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:04.145 When did you first became aware about the um undocumented issue? Yeah. So 00:10:04.178 --> 00:10:08.186 after I graduated from Texan University, I worked in housing and 00:10:08.219 --> 00:10:14.255 residential education for about a year in Florida. And 00:10:14.288 --> 00:10:19.736 after that, I think I, I realized that I wasn't done with my education. I 00:10:19.769 --> 00:10:24.586 felt that what I was doing, which was administration at the time. It, it 00:10:24.619 --> 00:10:28.167 didn't really complete me. I knew that I liked being in the classroom. I 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:30.885 knew that I liked working with students and I know that the higher that 00:10:30.918 --> 00:10:33.625 you go up in administration, the less you work with students directly. And 00:10:33.658 --> 00:10:38.635 so I came back for my doctorate in education policy and evaluation because 00:10:38.668 --> 00:10:40.826 I knew that I wanted to be a professor. I knew that I wanted to be in the 00:10:40.859 --> 00:10:44.885 classroom and I knew that I also wanted to do research that was um 00:10:44.918 --> 00:10:48.967 conducive to challenging some of these uh environments in which we 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:53.287 function. And, and so that was here at Arizona State University, I was 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:57.917 accepted. And when I got here, I think that was another uh environmental 00:10:57.950 --> 00:11:01.157 change for me, right? Because I was back in a predominantly Latino 00:11:01.190 --> 00:11:06.866 environment, at least in the community. But that demographic was not as 00:11:06.899 --> 00:11:11.667 represented at the university. And then I came to understand why that was 00:11:11.700 --> 00:11:16.486 , and that's because of the social political context of Arizona and, and 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:21.826 mind you this was after the passage of SP 1070. And so I think at the 00:11:21.859 --> 00:11:27.917 forefront of my arrival here, I was already conscious of the fact that um 00:11:27.950 --> 00:11:31.667 there was racial profiling practices that there was a lot of allegations 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:35.316 that there was a lot of policing, there was targeting of Latinos 00:11:35.349 --> 00:11:40.086 specifically, but even more specifically of immigrants and undocumented 00:11:40.119 --> 00:11:45.996 immigrants. More so and so just becoming aware of these social issues uh 00:11:46.029 --> 00:11:50.106 drove me to really just understand and then working within the community 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:53.015 as soon as I got here, I wanted to be involved um because I didn't know 00:11:53.048 --> 00:11:58.076 anyone here, I didn't have a family. And so I went to the queer 00:11:58.109 --> 00:12:03.246 undocumented immigrant project. And that was an organization that really 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.265 brought together issues of immigration and sexual orientation, gender 00:12:07.298 --> 00:12:10.625 identity. And so being involved with this organization, that's when I 00:12:10.658 --> 00:12:14.476 really began to understand really what it meant to be a Latino within the 00:12:14.509 --> 00:12:18.096 context of Arizona, what it meant to be an immigrant within the context of 00:12:18.129 --> 00:12:22.436 Arizona. And then the limitations imposed on undocumented immigrants just 00:12:22.469 --> 00:12:27.446 based on their immigration status. And at that time, it was not being able 00:12:27.479 --> 00:12:30.302 to qual. Well, at that time, actually, uh deferred action for childhood 00:12:30.335 --> 00:12:35.611 arrivals had it passed. And so that was everything from no access to in 00:12:35.644 --> 00:12:38.321 state tuition, state based financial aid, not even in the community 00:12:38.354 --> 00:12:43.422 college, it was not being able to work, it was not qual for a state ID or 00:12:43.455 --> 00:12:49.951 um driver's license as well as qualifying for state public benefits. And 00:12:49.984 --> 00:12:56.150 so coming from an immi immigrant background, identifying with an immigrant 00:12:56.183 --> 00:13:02.696 family, it, it was one of those things where it just seemed very unjust 00:13:02.729 --> 00:13:08.976 and it, it seemed very targeting of specific populations. And I think 00:13:09.009 --> 00:13:12.145 social justice has always been something that has undergirded my work and 00:13:12.178 --> 00:13:16.755 my passion for being in education. And so, uh I brought that into my 00:13:16.788 --> 00:13:21.217 studies here at a su um within the Mary Lou Fulton Teachers College, 00:13:21.250 --> 00:13:24.946 really embedding social justice specifically for immigration and LGBT Q 00:13:24.979 --> 00:13:30.196 issues into my studies uh into education policy and seeing the ways that 00:13:30.229 --> 00:13:36.167 intersected with these social political issues. And that essentially led 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:44.200 me, me and a friend to create a educational program here which we named 00:13:45.889 --> 00:13:51.167 Dream Zone. And so Dream Zone is a program and it's an educational 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:57.005 workshop that we develop to increase part um faculty, staff, student 00:13:57.038 --> 00:14:02.895 leaders and even the community members knowledge um of immigration issues 00:14:02.928 --> 00:14:07.885 as they impact educational processes for students, for teachers, for 00:14:07.918 --> 00:14:11.106 individuals that work with students. And so it's really trying to increase 00:14:11.139 --> 00:14:15.217 their uh multicultural competencies for working with students and making 00:14:15.250 --> 00:14:19.566 sure that we are providing educational success for everyone regardless of 00:14:19.599 --> 00:14:24.557 immigration status. What do you think are those specific tools and comps 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:30.395 uh people attain while they attend Dream Zone? Yeah. So I think the way 00:14:30.428 --> 00:14:36.476 that we molded the program was more of becoming socially aware, becoming 00:14:36.509 --> 00:14:42.255 socially conscious and critically conscious, right? So for us, it starts 00:14:42.288 --> 00:14:48.846 with understanding where you come from and understanding where you believe 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:53.846 these issues um come from. So understanding yourself what you believe, 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:59.196 where uh these beliefs and values come from and then really challenging 00:14:59.229 --> 00:15:04.086 them right? Beyond what we challenge ourselves every day. So it's 00:15:04.119 --> 00:15:06.885 understanding ourselves and then understanding the context in which we 00:15:06.918 --> 00:15:10.566 live in, not only the state of higher education within Arizona, but also 00:15:10.599 --> 00:15:15.145 across the country. Um How that impacts issues of access, of affordability 00:15:15.178 --> 00:15:22.287 , of um retention, um matriculation as well. And then beyond understanding 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:29.467 the context, also understanding our responsibilities to, 00:15:29.500 --> 00:15:33.547 to serve as allies, right? So what is it that we can do within the scope 00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:37.996 of our positions to really assist students that we work with at the end of 00:15:38.029 --> 00:15:40.976 the day, as higher education practitioners, student affairs, um 00:15:41.009 --> 00:15:46.417 professionals, we we work with students here regardless of the race, 00:15:46.450 --> 00:15:50.755 religion, disability, right? Ability, uh immigration status. And so it's 00:15:50.788 --> 00:15:55.297 important that we're competent and we're informed about issues that 00:15:55.330 --> 00:15:59.125 directly impact the lives of students because otherwise we we we're doing 00:15:59.158 --> 00:16:02.525 a disservice to students who are paying their tuition to be here, who 00:16:02.558 --> 00:16:05.856 often don't qualify for federal financial aid, state based financial aid 00:16:05.889 --> 00:16:09.066 in state tuition. And so that's already a lot of obstacles that they're 00:16:09.099 --> 00:16:12.755 jumping through to be in higher education. And so the least that we could 00:16:12.788 --> 00:16:19.326 do is provide them adequate services um and support who uh comes to dream 00:16:19.359 --> 00:16:24.496 zone, who participates. Yeah. So the majority of our participants I have 00:16:24.529 --> 00:16:29.525 to say are staff. Uh So these are individuals that work within the 00:16:29.558 --> 00:16:34.395 university, outside of the university. K 12 institutions that work 00:16:34.428 --> 00:16:42.428 directly with students. A lot of it is student affairs um services. Um But 00:16:42.570 --> 00:16:47.726 we also get some faculty that do research on these issues. Um We get a lot 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:52.385 of student leaders who want to better understand these issues. And then we 00:16:52.418 --> 00:16:56.586 get a lot of graduate students as well who I think during their graduate 00:16:56.619 --> 00:17:02.356 programs are beginning to understand these issues and incorporate them 00:17:02.389 --> 00:17:07.045 into their social justice work as well. So the majority is staff, student 00:17:07.078 --> 00:17:12.325 Affairs, staff personnel and then I would say it's students, student 00:17:12.358 --> 00:17:17.605 leaders and then it, it's faculty and of course, the community is invited 00:17:17.638 --> 00:17:24.315 throughout. Yeah. How do they uh experience Dream Zone. Yeah. Um Well, 00:17:24.348 --> 00:17:27.756 Dream Zone is a four hour workshop and it sounds like a really long 00:17:27.789 --> 00:17:32.097 workshop, but it's a lot of content, right? And it's not just content, 00:17:32.130 --> 00:17:35.967 it's a lot of self reflection. It's a, it's about assessment and it's 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:42.097 about uh commitment, commitment to helping transform the campus 00:17:42.130 --> 00:17:46.627 environment, the campus climate to be more reflective of inclusion of 00:17:46.660 --> 00:17:50.986 social justice. And so it's like I said, it's a, it's a process that we 00:17:51.019 --> 00:17:57.065 take every uh from starting to understand ourselves to understanding our 00:17:57.098 --> 00:18:02.137 uh our context. And then more importantly, we don't do this as um like 00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:05.717 advocating for students, right? We do this with students with undocumented 00:18:05.750 --> 00:18:10.325 students. And so undocumented students are an integral part of dream zone. 00:18:10.358 --> 00:18:14.887 They help facilitate, they share their stories. They provide 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:21.476 practitioners with very um intentional efforts that they could do to 00:18:21.509 --> 00:18:25.986 better improve their their college experiences, to improve campus climate 00:18:26.019 --> 00:18:31.416 for other immigrant students for other undocumented students. So it's a, 00:18:31.449 --> 00:18:35.696 it's a collaboration between the participants of Gene Zone and 00:18:35.729 --> 00:18:40.045 undocumented students. Absolutely. So a lot of what it provides is that 00:18:40.078 --> 00:18:45.266 opportunity for individuals who maybe are not connected to immigration 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:49.446 directly because they're 3rd, 4th, 5th generation immigrants. And you know 00:18:49.479 --> 00:18:53.815 , we forget our immigration story. Um So it's, it's really provided an 00:18:53.848 --> 00:18:59.075 intentional effort for practitioners or faculty for students to interact 00:18:59.108 --> 00:19:04.877 with undocumented students who are currently going through the limitations 00:19:04.910 --> 00:19:07.666 of their immigration status. 00:19:07.699 --> 00:19:15.236 Uh Do um In what way, for example, do the participants of Dream Zone help 00:19:15.269 --> 00:19:21.926 out the undocumented students? So I think beyond just informing yourself 00:19:21.959 --> 00:19:28.956 and becoming a better ally, a lot of what we do is network building. And 00:19:28.989 --> 00:19:33.986 so we're creating a network of allies. And so the way that participants 00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:38.315 help undocumented students both directly and indirectly is by connecting 00:19:38.348 --> 00:19:43.676 them to resources, whether personal or professional and or creating 00:19:43.709 --> 00:19:51.709 visibility on campus of individuals who are 00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:57.295 willing and able to talk about immigration issues, uh to talk about how to 00:19:57.328 --> 00:20:02.647 help individuals who are trying to apply for, you know, work study as a 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:07.107 deferred action recipient or how to apply to housing and residential 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:11.585 education, you know, um and other services. So it's really allowing 00:20:11.618 --> 00:20:17.156 practitioners to incorporate their everyday expertise in student affairs, 00:20:17.189 --> 00:20:23.347 student services and connecting that to students needs for accessing these 00:20:23.380 --> 00:20:28.535 services. So you mentioned that Dream Zone builds a whole network of 00:20:28.568 --> 00:20:32.766 allies is dream zone actively involved with any other organizations and 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:40.217 our projects. Yeah. So what we do is in collaboration with the Arizona 00:20:40.250 --> 00:20:44.565 Dream, a coalition with the queer undocumented immigrant project as well 00:20:44.598 --> 00:20:52.598 as other local organizations. Um We bridge the gap between the community 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:57.676 and higher education. So we we think of Dream Zone as a Knowledge 00:20:57.709 --> 00:21:02.825 Mobilization initiative where we are bringing experts in their own, right 00:21:02.858 --> 00:21:07.117 , right? And undocumented immigrants who are able to talk about their 00:21:07.150 --> 00:21:11.406 experiences navigating higher education, trying to access higher education 00:21:11.439 --> 00:21:15.967 or life after higher education, right. How do you get a job and so forth? 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:21.176 And then we supplement that with uh research that is done by our faculty 00:21:21.209 --> 00:21:27.226 that um is responding to immigration issues that is responding to the 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:31.387 intersection of immigration and higher education issues and how it impacts 00:21:31.420 --> 00:21:34.897 the lives of students and practitioners. Student Affairs practitioners 00:21:34.930 --> 00:21:42.930 specifically. So we try to create shared learning environments where these 00:21:43.358 --> 00:21:48.726 conversations take place and where participants are able to take it out 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.835 into their communities and share what they learned and then hopefully 00:21:52.868 --> 00:21:57.996 invite others to come and partake in the learning. 00:21:58.029 --> 00:22:01.607 Are you aware of how many undocumented students that are currently 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:06.075 enrolled in Asia? I'm not, you know, and, and I think the difficulty 00:22:06.108 --> 00:22:09.666 behind that is because unless someone discloses their undocumented status 00:22:09.699 --> 00:22:13.666 to you, you wouldn't know that they're undocumented or that they come from 00:22:13.699 --> 00:22:19.506 an undocumented family. Right? Because I think um a lot of our students, 00:22:19.539 --> 00:22:24.016 even if they are citizens there, that doesn't mean their parents um may be 00:22:24.049 --> 00:22:28.847 citizens or, or have a legal permanent residency and so forth. And so we 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.756 see that with a lot of students, their parents are still undocumented. And 00:22:31.789 --> 00:22:34.347 so it's, it's one of those issues that drives a lot of students to 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:39.016 participate and to push for these efforts on campus. So we don't have 00:22:39.049 --> 00:22:43.137 specific numbers. We know several students, right? That help out with 00:22:43.170 --> 00:22:47.887 Dream Zone. And that's how we are able to um connect with them via these 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:52.986 spaces that we create. But in terms of specific numbers, I don't know. All 00:22:53.019 --> 00:22:57.147 I know is that over the past couple of years, those numbers uh have 00:22:57.180 --> 00:23:03.226 dwindled. And that's because there's been less access to financial 00:23:03.259 --> 00:23:08.597 opportunities, both private and um like through donors and stuff. So it 00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:12.986 makes it a lot harder for students to pay 300% tuition as out of state 00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:16.295 students because they don't qualify for in state tuition as a result of 00:23:16.328 --> 00:23:22.877 proposition 300 then, um, you know, we're, we're currently working to try 00:23:22.910 --> 00:23:27.335 to lower that right to where we can get uh the Arizona border regions to 00:23:27.368 --> 00:23:32.736 really side on the side of um the morally correct thing to do the 00:23:32.769 --> 00:23:37.617 economically correct thing to do the socially correct thing to do and 00:23:37.650 --> 00:23:42.597 provide in state tuition to um at least different action recipients who 00:23:42.630 --> 00:23:47.516 now have legal presence in the state of Arizona. And so that's, it's 00:23:47.549 --> 00:23:52.607 almost like a a loophole of Proposition 300 right? Because they're no 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.936 longer undocumented, they have legal presence. And so we're, we're trying 00:23:56.969 --> 00:24:01.640 to create opportunities for students to have access to higher education. 00:24:01.838 --> 00:24:03.838 Could you describe your work with the boards of regions? Um So I don't 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.325 work directly with them, right? So in my capacity as a student, what a lot 00:24:10.358 --> 00:24:15.045 of what we're doing here on campus is create visibility of student support 00:24:15.078 --> 00:24:20.196 for access to higher education, for um undocumented students for DACA 00:24:20.229 --> 00:24:24.406 recipients. So a lot of the mobilization that we've been doing, a lot of 00:24:24.439 --> 00:24:29.325 the organizing that we've been doing on campus has revolved around student 00:24:29.358 --> 00:24:36.406 organizations. Uh student leaders coming out and showing support for 00:24:36.439 --> 00:24:40.815 undocumented students access to higher education at an in state tuition 00:24:40.848 --> 00:24:46.446 price. And so a lot of what our messaging conveys is that DACA recipients 00:24:46.479 --> 00:24:54.147 have legal presence and so they are entitled to in-state tuition at 100%. 00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:58.815 Uh the ticket price, right? Versus the 300% that they're having to pay now 00:24:58.848 --> 00:25:04.295 as out of state tuition. Uh Yeah, through out of state tuition. I'm sorry. 00:25:04.328 --> 00:25:08.726 Could you tell me a bit more about the recent protest? You guys? Yeah. So 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.426 we organized a solidarity walk and this was a couple of weeks ago and the 00:25:12.459 --> 00:25:17.006 solidarity walk again was to bring student leaders and student 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:22.857 organizations out um and show visible support for in state tuition, 00:25:22.890 --> 00:25:28.776 tuition, equality for DACA recipients. And so over the past couple of 00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:33.166 months, I think uh organizations within the community have come out in 00:25:33.199 --> 00:25:37.045 support for these issues. I think uh different leaders within the 00:25:37.078 --> 00:25:40.026 community, different even leaders within the state have come out in 00:25:40.059 --> 00:25:45.867 support for in state tuition. And so what we wanted to convey was that 00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:49.627 there are a lot of people that are in support of these issues and we want 00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:55.176 to show you that as a student body, we also support these issues. And as 00:25:55.209 --> 00:25:59.815 you take up decisions in the next couple of months about tuition, tuition 00:25:59.848 --> 00:26:04.016 rates and so forth, we want you to know that as a student body, we 00:26:04.049 --> 00:26:08.776 collectively support in-state tuition, tuition equality for DACA 00:26:08.809 --> 00:26:15.486 recipients at 100%. And so it's really trying to demonstrate that as, as 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:20.656 sun devils, um we don't leave any Sun devil behind, right? And we're a 00:26:20.689 --> 00:26:27.456 family. And so it's important that we convey our support of each other 00:26:27.489 --> 00:26:31.906 dream zone has been very successful over the years. Um Could you tell me a 00:26:31.939 --> 00:26:36.315 little bit more about um how the project was received in the wider 00:26:36.348 --> 00:26:42.045 community? So I think over the past we're going on three years now that 00:26:42.078 --> 00:26:47.835 we've had dreams on the Arizona State University. Um over this course, 00:26:47.868 --> 00:26:53.416 we've had over 1000 300 participants go through a four hour workshop. And 00:26:53.449 --> 00:26:58.107 so I think that, that says a lot about the interest that we've received in 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:01.295 learning about immigration and its intersection with higher education 00:27:01.328 --> 00:27:07.085 issues and even K 12 issues. Um It's also been received very well by K 12 00:27:07.118 --> 00:27:12.696 institutions. So we facilitated different workshops for specific schools 00:27:12.729 --> 00:27:18.916 for counselors within school districts and even within um teacher 00:27:18.949 --> 00:27:22.397 conferences, right? Or, or uh teach for America has been another 00:27:22.430 --> 00:27:26.367 organization that has asked us to facilitate Dream Zone for their, their 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:31.387 core of teachers here locally in Arizona. And so we've been able to embed 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:37.676 dream zone with within a lot of our community work or um on campus work. 00:27:37.709 --> 00:27:41.766 And then even at a state, so Dream Zone has been a workshop that we've 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:47.656 implemented at other state universities. So the University of Nevada in 00:27:47.689 --> 00:27:52.996 Las Vegas, uh Colorado State University, Fort Collins, New Mexico State 00:27:53.029 --> 00:27:58.795 University. And we've also shared um our curriculum with other 00:27:58.828 --> 00:28:02.717 institutions, right? So that they can have their own student leaders 00:28:02.750 --> 00:28:07.456 implement similar type workshops based off of our curriculum, our success 00:28:07.489 --> 00:28:12.637 and even our, our model, right? And so it it's really amazing to see 00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:17.795 similar programs take root in other institutions of higher education and 00:28:17.828 --> 00:28:23.065 even K 12 institutions, right? Um So it, it's been very exciting for us to 00:28:23.098 --> 00:28:30.555 see how higher education leaders have really taken a stance to support and 00:28:30.588 --> 00:28:36.127 stand with undocumented students and advocate on behalf of tuition 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:41.857 equality in many of these states which currently doesn't exist. Um more 00:28:41.890 --> 00:28:46.246 specifically in, in March 2013 dream zone was in the national spotlight 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.256 after winning the sweet 16 bracket competition of the Clinton Global 00:28:50.289 --> 00:28:53.736 Initiative University. So could you tell me a bit more about that 00:28:53.769 --> 00:29:00.926 competition as well? Yeah, I forgot about that. So this was maybe 20 wow. 00:29:00.959 --> 00:29:05.166 Going on three years already, like two years ago, I think um my 00:29:05.199 --> 00:29:09.575 co-founder and I, we submitted a proposal for the Clinton Global 00:29:09.608 --> 00:29:17.367 Initiative. And so this is a program that seeks to provide 00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:25.400 uh local solutions to global problems. And so we submitted Dream Zone as a 00:29:26.118 --> 00:29:33.107 response to the educational inequalities that we saw to the anti immigrant 00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:38.026 social political context that we live in. And so it was really seeking to 00:29:38.059 --> 00:29:43.276 just bridge the gap between higher education in the community and this by 00:29:43.309 --> 00:29:48.426 providing accessible information, knowledge, mobilization efforts and 00:29:48.459 --> 00:29:53.377 making research accessible, making knowledge accessible to community 00:29:53.410 --> 00:29:57.867 members to higher education practitioners and so forth. Uh We were 00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:05.900 selected as a top 16 finalists uh based on some rubric that they use, I 00:30:06.818 --> 00:30:14.127 don't know. And so part of that challenge for us um 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.717 went to so what happened is after we were selected as the top 16 finalists 00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:22.166 , it was like the best, most innovative solutions. It went out to the 00:30:22.199 --> 00:30:28.825 public. And so the public got to choose their favorite um solutions to 00:30:28.858 --> 00:30:34.085 these social issues. And so then after that, we made top eight, you know, 00:30:34.118 --> 00:30:38.585 based on the public's votes and people voting online uh this nationally, 00:30:38.618 --> 00:30:45.137 right? And then we made top four. And then uh we, we won, we, we got first 00:30:45.170 --> 00:30:48.926 place for the Clinton Global Initiative. And it was very exciting for us 00:30:48.959 --> 00:30:53.446 because it really affirmed the work that we were doing and it affirmed the 00:30:53.479 --> 00:30:57.075 interest. Um not, not only among students, even though this is like a 00:30:57.108 --> 00:31:00.256 college, essentially a college student population that's responding to 00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:05.387 these issues, but also just nationally, it really spoke to the need for 00:31:05.420 --> 00:31:10.496 these type of interventions within educational institutions, both K 12 and 00:31:10.529 --> 00:31:16.467 higher education. How do you see the future of Dream Zone evolving? So, 00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:20.176 right now, I think our conversations are going to uh how do we 00:31:20.209 --> 00:31:24.535 institutionalize this program or similar type programs within the 00:31:24.568 --> 00:31:30.347 university so that it's not reliant on the volunteerism and the passion of 00:31:30.380 --> 00:31:37.026 , of students, you know, um One thing I didn't say before is that Dream 00:31:37.059 --> 00:31:42.956 Zone started as a student led initiative and to a certain extent, it still 00:31:42.989 --> 00:31:47.756 is, many of us are still students. Uh some of us are also um we play 00:31:47.789 --> 00:31:50.847 different roles within the university. Some of us work as staff, some of 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:58.305 us work as um adjunct faculty, right, within specific classes. And so we 00:31:58.338 --> 00:32:02.065 don't get paid to do these educational workshops, you know, and to date, 00:32:02.098 --> 00:32:08.117 we've done, I think the last number was 56 we've done 56 total workshops 00:32:08.150 --> 00:32:12.867 um within the university. And that's not including workshops that we 00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:17.467 facilitate for specific groups outside of the university, uh which has, 00:32:17.500 --> 00:32:24.456 has also been many, many workshops. And so it's great that we have such an 00:32:24.489 --> 00:32:28.916 active um group that is passionate about these issues and that's willing 00:32:28.949 --> 00:32:34.416 to commit their time, their energy, their, their passion into fulfilling 00:32:34.449 --> 00:32:39.956 the mission of, of dream zone. But I think um in line with economic 00:32:39.989 --> 00:32:44.335 justice, right? It's also about how do we institutionalize these type of 00:32:44.368 --> 00:32:49.406 efforts so that we can also pay individuals that are, that are doing this 00:32:49.439 --> 00:32:54.097 work because it's exhausting, right? And it's, it's a lot of time that we 00:32:54.130 --> 00:32:58.607 put into this work. Um And it's self gratifying. I think the work speaks 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.986 for itself and it's great to feel like you're making an impact in someone 00:33:02.019 --> 00:33:06.585 else's life, even if it's just one person or a whole group of 40 which, 00:33:06.618 --> 00:33:11.686 you know, is typically the size that we work with. Um But I think more 00:33:11.719 --> 00:33:16.446 than that, I think it's, it's being smart about how to do this work and 00:33:16.479 --> 00:33:23.137 how to build capacity and increase um the, 00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:25.795 the number of workshops that we can facilitate because right now, we're a 00:33:25.828 --> 00:33:28.926 small group of, I believe five people. And so for five people, I think 00:33:28.959 --> 00:33:32.877 we've done a really great job uh until now. And so how do we build 00:33:32.910 --> 00:33:37.367 capacity moving forward? Are you involved with any other organizations or 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:42.266 project besides the dream zone on campus? Uh I'm part of several student 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:47.377 organizations and I think that's the, that's what I utilize, right as a 00:33:47.410 --> 00:33:52.256 student, like my, my student capacity. So I, I was president of the Latino 00:33:52.289 --> 00:33:55.617 Graduate Student Alliance on campus. I'm the vice president of the 00:33:55.650 --> 00:33:59.397 Graduate of Professional Student Association. Um And then I also 00:33:59.430 --> 00:34:04.097 participate in other student groups uh in just a member basis, right? But 00:34:04.130 --> 00:34:09.776 I think using my roles within these positions within these organizations, 00:34:09.809 --> 00:34:15.227 I'm sorry, it has also been an opportunity to engage our membership and 00:34:15.260 --> 00:34:22.175 increasing our consciousness about these social issues. So really 00:34:22.208 --> 00:34:26.916 supporting other efforts on campus that other student organizations are 00:34:26.949 --> 00:34:29.756 doing or even that Dream Zone is doing and supporting it with our 00:34:29.789 --> 00:34:34.206 membership from these organizations so that we can start mobilizing other 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:37.195 students who are within our graduate programs, who are within our 00:34:37.228 --> 00:34:40.885 classrooms and so forth. So it's, it's really putting a student face to 00:34:40.918 --> 00:34:45.517 these issues and off campus and off campus, the queer undocumented 00:34:45.550 --> 00:34:50.256 Immigrant project, familia trans queer liberation Movement. Um And then I 00:34:50.289 --> 00:34:57.876 also support efforts from Arco um as well as uh United We Dream. So could 00:34:57.909 --> 00:35:01.595 you tell me a bit more about the second organization you mentioned? Yeah. 00:35:01.628 --> 00:35:06.365 So Familia Transport Liberation Movement is an organization based out of 00:35:06.398 --> 00:35:11.577 California. And so what they're doing is over the past year, they've kind 00:35:11.610 --> 00:35:16.405 of built small, I don't want to say chapters because it's not chapters but 00:35:16.438 --> 00:35:22.807 small pockets of activists of leaders that are Latino. So this is 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:29.126 intersecting more Latino and LGBT Q issues. But part of many of our Latino 00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:34.865 experience is immigration. And so we talk about immigration um a lot, 00:35:34.898 --> 00:35:41.905 right? So uh working with them has been also an opportunity to learn about 00:35:41.938 --> 00:35:46.186 transgender issues, right? Within immigration detention centers, uh about 00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:53.195 , you know, the criminalization of LGBT Q members, the criminalization of 00:35:53.228 --> 00:35:57.787 undocumented immigrants within uh state laws and policies, the inhumane 00:35:57.820 --> 00:36:02.865 practices, you know, dragnet policing immigration enforcement policies. 00:36:02.898 --> 00:36:05.695 And so I think being involved with these different organizations in the 00:36:05.728 --> 00:36:10.635 community and even the Arizona Dream a coalition, right? It really, 00:36:10.668 --> 00:36:16.017 it makes all of this more real beyond just research beyond just talking 00:36:16.050 --> 00:36:23.425 about issues theoretically or conceptually, I think it also puts the face 00:36:23.458 --> 00:36:26.666 of individuals who are directly affected by this and that's what makes 00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:31.217 this work powerful that you are 00:36:31.250 --> 00:36:38.736 helping individuals um by helping change the environment, the climate. Ho 00:36:38.769 --> 00:36:44.497 how do you feel about the current legislation that is available for 00:36:44.530 --> 00:36:50.885 undocumented people? So for example, DACA, I think DACA was a great first 00:36:50.918 --> 00:36:54.615 step towards 00:36:54.648 --> 00:37:00.385 allowing individuals to eligible individuals, right? Because it's very, 00:37:00.418 --> 00:37:07.396 it's very selective, but it's a great first step for helping them work for 00:37:07.429 --> 00:37:12.217 relieving some of the fear of deportation that a lot of our community 00:37:12.250 --> 00:37:16.557 faces. Um But like I said, it's, it's very limited in scope, right? It 00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:18.945 only benefits 00:37:18.978 --> 00:37:22.986 individuals who came here before the age of 16. You know, you're dreamers 00:37:23.019 --> 00:37:28.856 , it helps dreamers and, well, that's great. Um I think it also creates um 00:37:28.889 --> 00:37:32.635 different categories of undocumented immigrants now, right? Because in 00:37:32.668 --> 00:37:40.668 saying that dreamers are more deserving of some type of relief, 00:37:41.090 --> 00:37:45.546 you're automatically positioning their parents and anyone who's not a 00:37:45.579 --> 00:37:50.385 dreamer as undeserving. And so it becomes politics of deserving this, 00:37:50.418 --> 00:37:54.017 right? So who's a good immigrant, who's a bad immigrant? And so I think 00:37:54.050 --> 00:37:57.896 that's part of the problem that we're facing today that it's, it's a 00:37:57.929 --> 00:38:01.365 continual criminalization of our community even through positive efforts 00:38:01.398 --> 00:38:08.115 like DACA or the expansion of DACA or D the DAPA, right, which hasn't been 00:38:08.148 --> 00:38:11.586 implemented either. But I think these are, these are great steps, but I 00:38:11.619 --> 00:38:18.345 think more, more great would be finding ways in which we can create 00:38:18.378 --> 00:38:22.037 greater inclusion of, 00:38:22.070 --> 00:38:27.166 of our community. And then beyond that, also not criminalizing our 00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:32.296 community, right? Because we have to understand that being undocumented 00:38:32.329 --> 00:38:38.865 alone, being LGBT Q and even the intersection of these two issues. Um One 00:38:38.898 --> 00:38:42.706 prior to DACA, A, a lot of our community wasn't able to work, you know, 00:38:42.739 --> 00:38:46.736 and so there was different issues. Uh there was different means of 00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:52.756 survival that, that drove people to the informal economy, you know, sex 00:38:52.789 --> 00:38:58.336 works, um survival, sex, right? Um and then hormone access to hormones, 00:38:58.369 --> 00:39:03.095 access to hormone therapy, to, to different things, right? This is 00:39:03.128 --> 00:39:07.967 specific to like um LGBT Q issues, right, within the undocumented 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:14.026 community, but having to survive via these means because you don't have a 00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:18.827 pathway to citizenship because you don't have a pathway to work or to 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:24.486 safety, right? Which is I think what undergirds all this that criminalizes 00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:31.836 you even further because that's what, that's what pushes people. 00:39:31.869 --> 00:39:36.276 Yeah, and that's what exposes our community to police, you know, to 00:39:36.309 --> 00:39:41.977 detention and so forth. And so simply having that on your record 00:39:42.010 --> 00:39:48.486 disqualifies you for D A for any type of relief, right? That's currently 00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:53.146 been proposed. And so how do we destigmatize, 00:39:53.179 --> 00:40:01.179 you know, detention and prison within our community? Understanding that 00:40:01.938 --> 00:40:05.767 these are the consequences of 00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:10.405 learning to survive within the environment in which we've pegged um 00:40:10.438 --> 00:40:17.385 undocumented immigrants. Do you support comprehensive immigration reform? 00:40:17.418 --> 00:40:21.206 Absolutely. I think um I think everyone should have a pathway to 00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.816 citizenship and uh the opportunity uh regardless of the criminal record, 00:40:25.849 --> 00:40:30.896 regardless of the age that they came into the US and regardless of their 00:40:30.929 --> 00:40:34.247 sexual orientation, sexuality. 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:40.925 So, absolutely, how do you see the, the future for Arizona evolving, you 00:40:40.958 --> 00:40:47.666 know, uh I think for Arizona to transform into a more inclusive 00:40:47.699 --> 00:40:52.557 environment. We have to do away with policy that is restrictionist and 00:40:52.590 --> 00:40:57.845 that directly targets undocumented immigrants. So, SB 1070 the local 00:40:57.878 --> 00:41:04.727 enforcement of federal immigration um policies is I mean, the effects of 00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:11.635 it are more detrimental than I think the intended um 00:41:11.668 --> 00:41:18.925 the intent behind passing SB 1070 same as proposition 300. I mean, what 00:41:18.958 --> 00:41:24.586 sense does excluding a large population of our state undocumented 00:41:24.619 --> 00:41:28.566 immigrants from higher education? How, how much sense does that make to 00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:33.557 the state economy, to our society, whether we want to or not undocumented 00:41:33.590 --> 00:41:38.517 immigrants will always be part of our communities. And so we live in the 00:41:38.550 --> 00:41:44.345 state, we all share the community, we all share the state economy. What 00:41:44.378 --> 00:41:47.845 sense does it make to exclude them from access to higher education where 00:41:47.878 --> 00:41:54.425 they can um get a degree, obtain a career, you know, contribute to the 00:41:54.458 --> 00:41:59.486 economy and like higher levels and they're able to without an education. 00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:04.727 And then of course, that also means finding a pathway to legalization for 00:42:04.760 --> 00:42:11.017 them as well so that they're able to put their degrees into, into practice. 00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:14.925 And I think that extends beyond DACA because DACA is a two year program 00:42:14.958 --> 00:42:20.186 and at any point it can end and then everyone's undocumented again. And so 00:42:20.219 --> 00:42:24.336 it's, it's not a permanent solution, but you see the future evolving for 00:42:24.369 --> 00:42:29.456 the best, I think with the leaders that we have in the state and I think 00:42:29.489 --> 00:42:35.195 the the passion that many of us carry. I see us changing policy to reflect 00:42:35.228 --> 00:42:40.345 the needs of our communities in very positive ways because uh we, we will 00:42:40.378 --> 00:42:46.256 continue to, to challenge anti-immigrant anti LGBT Q policies that 00:42:46.289 --> 00:42:51.287 directly target us. OK. Well, then thank you for this interview, Jesus. No 00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:53.769 , you're welcome.