Today is July 31st 2015. My name is Christi Navarro Malaney interviewing
for dinner, 2040 oral history project. I am interviewing Mr Jason Matthews
at a su core building on a sut campus. Good morning. Good morning. How are
you? I'm doing very well. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. I'm just gonna
move that a bit. Great. So, can you tell me a little bit about your uh
where, when and where? And you were born? Sure. Um I was actually, I was
born in Renon Nevada, uh and then moved to Tucson when I was one. Um And
so I can't say I'm a native to Arizona. Um uh and people will tell you if
they're a neighbor named to Arizona. Um So I'm in the other 70% that's not
non native of Arizona, but I have to say I was, I've been an Arizona
resident for at least 37 years. So
tell me a little bit about your parents and the importance of maybe did
they kind of expose you to? I know you've worked a lot of nonprofits and
things like that. Tell me a little bit about your family. Absolutely. Uh
And it's something I'm very comfortable talking about. Um, my, my mom was
17 when she had me and uh I never met my father. I didn't have any uh
siblings. And so she raised me by herself and uh the experience of living
in poverty, uh being in the being the, the, you know, the recipient of
government programs, public assistance, um uh food stamps at the time. Um
the the benefits of even receiving food at a food bank, getting help from
others, um, has really framed why I'm here today. Um, not only in the, um
, it's been a contributing factor in my drive and ambition. Um, as my mom
never graduated from high school, um, she certainly didn't go on to
college. Um, and it's, it's, to me it's, I'm always trying to help others
and other families, other parents, um, other, uh, individuals that have
gone through what I had gone through and hopefully can achieve, um, the
kind of success that I have and even more, um, that, that's, that they can
possibly do and if I can be a part of that, um, that's great. And when my
, uh, my mom passed away when I was 21 and actually when she was 38 and
which is always a strange one. You know, my next birthday, I'll be
actually living longer than she was, um, reflecting upon even in that time
, which really kind of, um, uh, really solidified this role of how can I
work to help repair the world. Um And I actually, uh this is, uh came in
later in life, someone who is, you know, uh embraces my, uh, my Jewish
heritage. And there's this concept of uh T Kam, which is repair the world
and how can I do my part to help repair the world for other individuals?
And, uh, it's just, it's my, my honor and pleasure and it keeps me happy
and keeps me motivated and it's, it's something that um is just a great,
it's my North Star that keeps me going. Do you share this story with
others that are going through the struggle right now? And are they, what
is their reaction? I do? Um And I feel that that um especially as a rate
relates to human services and relates to food insecurity and hunger and
poverty. Um And a lot of these kind of services, it's very important to
share these stories um to help individuals see that they're not the only
ones going through it. Um There's so many aspects that, um well, it's,
these are embarrassing, sometimes, shameful, hurtful, hard, um uh uh
aspects of life and it's, it's not easy for someone to open up about this.
Um You can run, um, you know, I run parallels, you know, and, and, you
know, through my own history where I have, uh I've gone through a divorce
and gosh, if you, you know, as soon as you mentioned, you got a divorce
and I realized, oh my gosh, yeah, there's so many other people have
divorce stories and it's just, I think that and that's just one small
example. But uh to me sharing this story and to try to humanize it and to
see that it's not the other, it's not some, you know, poverty or hunger or
homelessness, it's not some other person that lives some other place. Um,
that, um, uh, we can visit and then come back, um, that it is a part of us.
Um, it's, and also make it real and tangible as opposed to something that
can be manipulated into a myth or a legend. Um, unfortunately, in my
personal opinion, you'll have a lot of these stories that turn into, well
, that's the, raise yourself up by your own boots, stamps, bootstraps.
It's the, um, um, that drive and ambition and that, you know, that's, you
know, good, you know, kind of, I don't know, again that those kind of big
mythical kind of things. Um, that to me is, it's a fall, it's a fallacy.
Yeah, there was a lot of myself that helped in these kinds of aspects but
really when telling the story and, and sharing this and not only to
humanize it, but also to humanize
how I got there and how people can help with it if it was not for the rest
of the community that helped me and helped my mother. Um, I wouldn't be
here. It's not, I can't just say that. Yeah. As a, as a strapping young,
seven year old, I could have totally done all those things, you know, or
as a, you know, a very, you know, um, crafty 10 year old. I could have
done blank, um, or even as a really scrappy 15 year old. I mean, it's, it
doesn't, there has been so many other markers throughout my life which, uh
, included my, you know, my mother and some of that stuff and at times it
didn't, but it was also the, you know, the, the other families that kind
of adopted me, you know, on the block, you know, and made sure that, you
know, I had a safe place to go when my mother was working nights at a bar
, um, that it was, you know, teachers and coaches that, um, uh, you know,
made sure I did my homework and made sure that, uh, you know, um, you know
, yelled at me when I need to be yelled at and, and kind of re guided me
and recall calibrated me. Um And I share this story because it's not just
to humanize the aspect of poverty, but it's also to see how the community
in Tucson, the community that I was around me by people just giving just a
, a little bit of time and a little bit of attention to someone that is in
need. They were able to make a tremendous difference and it wasn't just
one person, it wasn't just five people. It was, it was, there's this
community, time and time and time again that reinforced it that helped me
get to this point today. And now my obligation and, and in my honor now is
to be a part of that community that helps others. And so by sharing that
story, it's not just to, to get the, oh, so sad. It's more the or to get
sympathy. It's really, and not only just to humanize it, but then to try
to channel that into even if you did one thing. Um And even if you do that
one thing over again, that could be something that could make a big
difference. Is it hard to get that message across sometimes in the
community that doing that one thing would make such a, like almost a
domino effect. I mean, people probably think no or don't even realize that
it's in their own backyard. It's very difficult. Um uh it's, it is the um
there's that old story of the, of the guy who's walking on the beach and
picking up the starfish and throwing it into the ocean. And the, the, the
nice, friendly kind of optimistic ST uh aspect is like, well, you know,
how can you save all the animals in the ocean? And what difference does it
mean to you? And, and the guy who picks up the Starfish looks at and says
, well, I'm making an addition, a difference to this starfish and he
throws it back in the ocean. Um, well, the cynical view is like, well, you
know,
does that eat starfish even care what you get? You know, I mean, are you
by picking up the starfish, are you giving your germs to it and actually
killing the starfish? I mean, and I mean, you don't even know, maybe that
starfish is already dead. I mean, all these different things and I think
that it's um to your, to your question, it is you see that a lot,
especially when it comes to say voting behavior and even an impact of
charitable giving. Um Why should I give blank um or give blank attention
when that will never be a part of the bigger change? And you'll see
to me kind of the, the reaction to that is the shift from transformational
change, big change to smaller transactional incremental change, not even
incremental, just transactional to where it's easier to
build someone a house through habitat for humanity and not picking on
habitat for humanity. They're a great organization, they do great things,
but it's easier to build someone a house in a Saturday afternoon than to
spend time with that family and to deal with the root causes of why they
need the house in the first place. And
I think people know that I think people know that these are big, hard
issues. Um And to me, it comes down to, it's, it's seen your role in your
place, your, your, your, your moment, your, your opportunity within a
community and that turning outward and understanding that no matter where
you are, you have benefited from things that are completely out of your
control that you may not even know about. Um And you are also a
contributing factor to other people's benefits, whether you know about it
or not. And it's just that sense of awareness and by
getting to having people to take the time and it takes, it's, it's not
just like one amazing conversation. Um It, it's typically a series of
conversations and to demonstrate that change, that's the transformation.
The challenge is, is that the issues that we're dealing with get to be so
big ending hunger, uh Indian poverty um that you don't know where to start.
Um And uh I've had too many of, you know, again, coaches and teachers,
you know, have told me like, well, gosh, you know, um you know, uh this
project is too big. Where do you start? And it's like, well, you know, you
know how to eat an elephant, you know, one bite at a time, you know. Um
and were, you know, it's, it's, but it's also it's demonstrating with, um
even as you take a journey and also understand that sometimes that the
outcome is not going to be,
it's sometimes the outcome is the journey it's not the actual destination
and that it's the practice that, you know, even when in the talk of ending
hunger or in my colleagues and ending homelessness for as long as they
will be human beings, there will still be hunger and homelessness. But
through the journey and developing a better system and a better practice
of how we interact with those human beings that are facing hunger and
homelessness that gets us to where we need to be. That is the real goal.
Um And, but to just say like, you know, I am the director of starting a
long term journey in order to increase food insecurity over generations is
not only will not fit on a business card, but it is, but it is you're
gonna lose people immediately and it doesn't include that sense of call to
action that inspires people or at least it garners enough bandwidth and
attention to get them to pause for three seconds in order to say, oh yeah
, hunger is bad, got it. And we should end that. It's the next question.
It's the how that's the hard thing. Um And so it's been my, my honor and
privilege to have conversations like that with everyone I can find but
just showing how their little actions have a compounding effect. And what
I don't think people see and I've only seen in doing this for a while is
that the compounding effect is the compound effect in you not the compound
effect in the people you're working with. It is when you build a culture
of philanthropy,
it's a culture within yourself. It's not. And then that's something that
you then teach within your family, within your friends, within your
Children. And that culture of philanthropy is something that you as you do
this over time as a practice. That is when you will see that kind of
transformation change. Um There is and this is not, it's not a new concept
, it is something that um that institutions of faith have been doing for a
very long time. It is what? Well, really ingenious brand management have
been doing. You know, there's some people who just love Apple products and
they love them, you know, why do they love them? But why, and it's the
same thing that an Apple iphone is the same as a Samsung Galaxy phone.
They do practically the same things. Um But they have changed, they built
a culture of devotion um that, that brand has become part of their own
personal identity.
True. But now how do you get that kind of um let's talk about that culture
of philanthropy. How do you develop that within the community itself? I
mean, you said it's, it's within oneself. How do you, how d how does that
process start
deliberate
and
intense repetitive engagement?
Um And also understanding where not only where your audience is at, um But
understa understand the constraints in which they're, they're facing. Um I
have the privilege and the luxury to spend and to get paid to talk about
these issues. Um to study these issues, to affect change within this area
.
I am a fraction of a minority um that, that gets to do that. Um And
understanding
where people are, how these issues may or may not impact them. Um understa
understanding, not just the, the culture of where they are, but and it's
not just culture and race and ethnicity and gender and sexuality, but it's
a culture of time and space. And that is something that by understanding
that it allows you to have those deliberate conversations. Um And so you
meet people where they are and then we have conversations, you can't go
into someone and say that especially a working poor family. Um If someone
were to come to my mother when she was raising, you know, a little bratty
little boy probably at the time. Um and wanted to stop and say, look, you
know, Jamie gosh, I know you're just on your way to go work nights and I
know you're just leaving your son here and he's eight years old and we're
leaving him alone because he's because that there's no child care. Um But
do you have 15 minutes to talk about food insecurity? No, she's gonna say
I gotta get to work. Um and don't talk to my kid, you know, and so it is,
it's creating that space, it's undertaking the time to understand and to
build a relationship and it doesn't have to be like that long. And, and
even the word relationship is something that is, it's needs to be
redefined because it's a great word. But I think it turns into like, well
, you know, we don't have a time to build a relationship, you know, but
even understanding that even in small conversations, you can, you can
develop a tie and a seriousness and a deliberateness that connects people
and time that building a culture of philanthropy starts with those
incremental, deliberate building those connections and time and then doing
that with individuals, someone who has passion on the issue and it doesn't
have to be knowledge, it doesn't have to be an expertise, it's just
interest and passion and then getting them to connect with someone else.
Um To me that is the true form of advocacy. Um but it starts with a
conversation.
The trick is, is then to channel once you spark the energy and that fire,
it's then channeling that into action um that reinforces the conversation
and the, then the physical action further reinforces the conversation and
then you switch from, you give them the opportunity to then be that change
agent, not just through actions, but then for them to share that story. Um
that is that is how social academics start to borrow Gladwell's term um
that tipping point kind of work and it doesn't like one person, there are
very few people that can stand on the stage and rally tens of thousands of
people and get them to do blank and to get them to do blank. Well, um but
by starting small and, and reaching people where they are in individual
conversations, that is how you mobilize people to mobilize the community.
Um And that is how you build a culture of philanthropy. It's how you build
a culture of anything really. Um It, but using the targeted focus of
philanthropy, if that's the right verb, basically using kind of switching
the word around. That is where you can demonstrate that. Um And um there's
a lot of proven methods that have shown that over time. Um The challenge
is, is that it is not only hard, it's slow and things that are hard and
things that are slow in the modern day age are, are, are, it's, well,
they're just less appealing. Um They want easy and fast. Um And um there's
been, there's been ways to kind of manipulate that a little bit on, you
know, the hooks, you know, how can we get you to come and pay attention to
us, you know, and there's marketing ideas, there's advertising ideas,
there's um to use our habitat for humanity example. Um They would argue
that by getting him to build a house that is the hook that gets them
connected with the issue. Um It's kind of just depends on what they do
next after that. But so let's go back a little bit and let's talk about um
the role of education in your life and, and the impact that it had. Can
you tell me a little bit about um where you went to school or any teachers
or mentors that you mentioned them that were instrumental? Absolutely. Um
So, um being raised in Tucson, um I was very fortunate to have um amazing
uh teachers in my life, especially in uh uh public school. Proud Ranger uh
from rank on high in Tucson. Um and had incredible teachers. Um Christine
W Hopkins is one of them that was um actually dynamic and um pushing me
and challenging me out of complacency. Um And uh you know, she was the one
who, um you know, she was an English teacher, um which my, my further
degrees or one is in English literature. Uh Probably no coincidence, but
the um uh she was the one when I went to go see the um uh the school
counselor in high school during that time, I think it was junior year or
whatever. And they said, well, you know, the school counselor said, well,
guess what, you know, looking at, you know, what your grades are and where
you are, you know, gosh, this, you should probably, you know, just go down
this particular path and start in a community college and, and go down
this path. It would probably be the the smart thing to do. And I, and, and
I went back and reported that to her and she just said, no, no, that's not
for you. No, no, no, you're gonna, I'm gonna give you someone else to talk
to. And she was the one who said you need to dream bigger. You need to,
you need to be more aspirational, you could do this. Um You just need to,
you know, she believed in that aspect and that was just, it's, it was now
, especially for education that was game changing. Um, I've also been very
fortunate to have a lot of, um, great coaches. I have no athletic ability
whatsoever. Uh, but it is a lot of great coaches that, um, allowed me to
try hard. Um, and, um, I always like to joke that rank on high's football
team was so bad that anyone could try and which was really great for me
because, but that allowed me the opportunity to, um, to, hm, probably, and
then just kind of working this out for the first time. It allowed me to
work out a lot of my challenges at home on the field and, and whether or
not we won the game, it was the journey and that allowed me and the trust
in that especially and just, you know, and even to this day, I may not
know everything I, you know, I certainly don't have the athletic ability
again. Um, but my goal is that work you and if I can just put in that time
and that drive, that's going to help me get to where I need to be. Um And
because of that, um, that really helped in trying to identify a lot of
leadership positions, whether it was captain of teams or kind of
shepherding into like student council clubs or those kinds of things. And
which was very helpful and I definitely very formative. And especially
because at that time with my mother working nights a lot and working
weekends because she worked in, uh, as a bartender, waitress for most of
that time during high school. Um, I just wasn't around, I mean, I was just
at home by myself. And so if, uh, I needed a place to be, um, just because
I don't have, there was just myself at home. Um, and so that really helped
a lot and there's, I knew we got to a point to where I was, um, getting to
a point where my mother couldn't support me and could not really
understand what I was doing. Um, and that led to some really hard, hard
things. Um, it was Christine Walt Hopkins who actually, um, encouraged me
to shoot big and apply to a school, not in state and I applied to, uh, and
actually got into Oxido College. Um, but yeah, that was a huge achievement
and it was actually her alma mater. Um, I'm sure that she had a great
letter that helped with that. Um But it was also facing up against that
the reality of poverty, which the tuition was so astronomically high that
I couldn't afford to go. Um And not even having the debt resources to do
that. Um And that, that kind of tug and tool and that was hard. Um But I
was fortunate enough to um you know, go to the U of A um which is almost
like the fifth year of high school for a lot of people, first eight year
schools. Um But um and I was very fortunate to, to finally, over time find
that kind of, of connection within political science um and English
literature um to really help me um just find that passion and channel that
passion into something tangible. Um For me, political science reading has
always been something that I've always enjoyed to do, still enjoy doing.
Um Storytelling is something that I've always embraced. I probably
wouldn't be able to describe it then. I certainly do now. Um And so the
English literature part was very easy on the political science side. I was
very fortunate to, to get a scholarship and have some support from family
members like a, a great grandmother that I barely knew. Um And I was able
to go to a program called close up in my senior year in high school, which
was a four day intensive in Washington DC. And I knew right then that I
wanted to work in public service. I didn't know what that meant. I didn't
know. I think I said I want to work in politics. I don't even know what
that meant at the time. Um, but that was,
that experience was able to broaden my entire change, my entire
perspective on the world and to see how, um, I, I remember very distinctly
standing up, you know, uh, there was on the Capitol, there's a veranda
that looks out onto the mall. Um And I remember standing there thinking
about all the things that have happened there, the things that I just
didn't even really appreciate. Um and thinking to myself that this is a
place of change and that, and that this is profound for a 17 year old. I
have no idea where this came from but um that I, that I had ownership in
this, but I also had responsibility to this and literally, and like my
hands were on the granite and just thinking to myself like, wow, I have I
own and I'm responsible for this. Um And so many people have been before
me and so many people will be here after me. And so what, what can I do?
And so, and that really informed that political science um uh background
um in that emphasis and I'm still a political geek. I love election
seasons. That's my sporting season. Um I um I can really go full nerd on
that whole thing. So I just won't. Um But it's been interesting because
political science and helped me start to understand the behaviors of
collective groups, which has been a wonderful foundation for work in human
services and studies and poverty. Um It is um
we tend to think of elections of all about being one candidate. No, it's
the collective decision of a bunch of people and how a campaign, not a
candidate, but a campaign of time and of marketing and of energy
influences that collective action and both in negative and positive senses.
And that has been, I've always looked at that lens in the work and trying
to help people in poverty because um it's, it's funny how, you know,
people ask like, why are people poor? Why, what you could do one thing,
what would you do? Um if you have all the resources in the world, what
would you do? Um And it's like, well, it gets complicated, you know,
because really you need like a, I would build a time machine, you know,
and, and change the entire, you know, the world back to another one big
moment, you know, or, you know, I, I would, you know, completely move an
entire population from one community to another community. Um And it gets
hard quick. Um So those things um led me uh graduate from the U of A uh uh
moved up to the big city Phoenix uh to get a job because um there's less
opportunity up there. I actually ended up going to u and got my master's
in public administration. Um And which was tremendous, what was great
about this program here. Um And uh um I will definitely say this and for,
for the, the record, make sure to pay your alumni dues. Um Got me involved
in the alumni association. Um but
the practitioners at the issue of college public programs um and in the
Masters of Public Administration Program, um they were just not only just
instrumental but just, just so exciting. Um They were rock stars and they
were able to demonstrate change, not just the theoretical um but actually
, it's nice to read this book, but let's go try it with real people. You
know, it's, it's one thing to be able to say, you know, like we're going
to talk about how to mobilize people and, you know, the public hr systems
and all these different things and it's like, that's great. So now let's,
this is how we actually worked with this union to get this done. Um And
these were the positive things that we were able to do and here's some of
the challenges that we were actually able to do and that has been
fantastic um through that um internship. Um um I was uh through that
program, I got a uh a management internship with the City of Tempe. Um um
My emphasis was on city county management. Um And just the, how this
industry works and how the relationship it has with its constituents and
its taxpayers. And, um, that's been absolutely amazing. So, so I'm gonna
go back to a little bit when you were at U of a, were you a first
generation college student? Um, yeah, with my mom. Um, later on I found
out that I had other family members that had gone to college when my mom
passed away. Um And um, so when I started college, I didn't actually know
of, I very, very small family. Um and a lot of kind of a military brat
family where people are all over the place. Um And when my mom passed away
, it was my fourth year in school when she passed away um in April of that
year. So, right when I was just about to, to look like graduating with a
poly sci degree, um And so I freaked out and um I actually turned my minor
into another major and stayed an extra year. Um Just, it was good for
everybody. Um, especially for me. Um But in that, um an uncle that um
didn't know really existed anymore, uh resurfaced and he was in the
military and he was a doctor. Um wonderful funny story how um his son than
uh literally went to the same high school as I did. Um And when the, the
August after this, the I graduated in, in May uh started and everyone said
do you have this brother? And no, and just didn't, just didn't know each
other. So, yeah, what were some of the challenges is that since you were
starting college and you were? It's the news, I mean, there's no one to
really go talk to about the issues or problems that you may encounter as a
first generation college student. You know, what did you do? And how did
you tackle them? The biggest challenge is having to work full time and go
to school. Um And so I've been working since 15.5. Um and um I was pretty
much working almost full time, even my last couple of years in high school
to help support the family. Um and um that just was compounded going to
school because now you have more expenses. Um And while I was very, very
fortunate and I remember um at the U of A and there was a financial aid um
uh professional um that remembers going to her office to fill out your va
forms and all these different things. And she's like, this is the first
time in your life, you're going to be grateful you're poor. Um And I, I
kind of looked at it and like part was like, I'm not poor and like, yeah,
I'm like, really poor, like, but um she was able to really keep my, my
student loan debt um down um tremendously for my undergraduate, um which
I'm very thankful for. Um but even with the aid that I was received, that
I was able to receive, it still wasn't enough to support myself. Um And so
I, yeah, I've been working, you know, absolutely full time since then, so
that constraint of time. Um and this is kind of goes into, you know,
people always ask, you know, what, what is the disadvantage of, of being
poor. Um And I say it's not really income but it's time. Um There's, you
know, there's a lot of people that are out there that um live in self
sufficient communities that don't really need a lot of income. Um And, but
when you do need a lot of income, you need to spend that time to earn that
income. And if there's not really good jobs to do that, then you need the
time to do so. So for me, the biggest constraint of being a first year was
, is not only not having a, the income or support system, the financial
support system to help with that, but it also wasn't the, the um I mean,
we talk a little bit also and in our work and hunger and, and poverty is
that the support system that teaches you resiliency. Um And I was
fortunate to get into a like a bridge program for poor students and
minority students um the Summer Bridge program which was nice. Um And I
know there's versions of it. Um and I think they do an ok job of just
making sure that you, you, um, have a place to, to, to, you know, touch
base with. But what was the, the big irony? I didn't know this at the time
is that there, the solution was come to these meetings,
spend more time that you don't have with us to come do counseling to come
do group meetings. Um, and, um, we'd really like you, I mean, because that
you need that support system and I'm like, that's great. I got to go to
work now. Um, and since I don't have a car because I can't afford a car,
it takes me 45 minutes to ride there on a bicycle. Um So that extra, you
know, gap of time, um I'll come to the meetings when I have time. And so,
and I'm sure that it makes sense, but it's
not being a first generation. It's not having someone that says something
to the point of like, don't take that job. Ok. And it was the job I had in
high school. And I was, you know, for me at that, at that particular
juncture in my life, I was wor I worked long and hard enough to get to a,
you know, assistant manager to earning more money. So I was thinking about
more money and so it was worth the, you know, the two hour long commute,
um, you know, on both sides in order to do that. And if, if someone were
to then say, you know, Jason, they're not really paying you that much. Um
And what if, you know, your time is actually valuable? What if you were to
try to find a job on campus that doesn't actually pay as much, but it's
not going to, it's only going to be like the difference of like $3 but you
can literally walk there from class, you know, and that would have been
that kind of guidance that you just don't have, you don't have someone
who's gone through that journey. And so I think that um and having
conversation with other people that done like summer bridge programs and
people that are trying to work in that field, I'm like, you need people
that have actually gone down that journey to then help with the people
that are starting that journey. It's the old story of, you know, one
person falls down into a hole and doesn't know how to get out. So the
person jumps down there with them because they've been gone there before
they know the way out. Um You need someone that knows the journey. Um And
can literally say like, I know income is a big deal, huge deal. Oh my gosh
, that's probably the only thing you're thinking about because you're
thinking about paying your bills. Um Let's get you income, but let's try
to do it in a way where you can do both. At least you can study easier. So
that was, and that was hard. I mean, my, my grades suffered for it. Um, I
, I certainly wasn't the best student. Um, I probably had a, you know, I'd
be generous to say, I see average in my undergraduate as overall. Um, and
it's, you know, my basic, uh, my core curriculum classes, the requirements
that you need to do, um, versus my major. Um, my major I gave time to that.
I wanted to, you know, my stuff that I had to take, I'd squeeze that in,
you know. Um And, and that's, that's hard. So let's talk about how you
became involved in your current organization. Yeah, great. Um So I work at
the uh the Valley 79. Um I am their director of India Hunger. Um I've been
there since last September, uh excuse me. And um um but I've been working
in human services um and anti work going on 13 years um from the start of
, from my master's degree and that connection with the management
internship position at the city of Tempe. My first real job after that
internship ended was with um a nonprofit called Tempe Community Council,
uh which serves as their um the city's nonprofit, basically uh nonprofit
arm and they really started to work into not only community building um
but also uh work and homelessness and uh anti poverty work and those kinds
of things. I was there for 8.5 years uh rose to Assistant director, Chief
Program Officer. Uh looked for another opportunity to kind of broaden my
scope. Uh was able to go over to United Food Bank, which is a regional
Food Bank um that covers all the East Valley to New Mexico um as their
chief development officer in charge of fundraising marketing um and uh a
bunch of other things and then that really solidified that work in hunger
um and working in uh especially food insecurity and that I got some fun
stories from the food bank. Um but that was able to, that underscored that
importance of food insecurity and hunger. And to me, I'm way biased. Um
and what I'm allowed to work on um at the Valley on the United Way, which
is to really coordinate um both on a strategic level and a kind of uh uh
more of a tactical level, the the ending hunger plan for Maricopa County.
Um and how we play a part in coordinating that plan through convening of
people um rallying support, um raising money allocating money, starting
trying programs, testing issues, um taking things to scale the things that
work. Um And then repeat and until we can um um achieve our, our current
goal, uh We have a 2020 goal of trying to reduce uh chronic food
insecurity in Maricopa County by two thirds. That's two thirds of 82,000
families or households. I'm sorry.
So I'm gonna just kind of touch on the, you mentioned Food Bank stories.
Yeah. Can you share some of those? I have lots of food bank stories. Yeah
, I would love to. Um So I think food banks are fantastic. I think that
it's um uh and United Food Bank um where I had the honor of working with
and under the mentor of Bob Evans who um was um he came to me and he said
like I only have a year left. Um You know, but I would love to work with
you and here's an opportunity and I want, you know, you to be great for
our organization and maybe you can get something out of it too. So, um in
that um we were actually able to um as a chief development officer, being
in charge of raising revenue and telling and the communications of that
organization. OK. Um
OK. The um it was the opportunity and uh to really work with individuals
that are at the very beginning of the journey towards abject poverty. Um
And so it is in, there's something about because the, the issue of hunger
is, is very, very difficult in United States and, and, and Arizona to
really grapple with because
the definition is wrong. Um We talk about even hunger and it's no very few
people talk about food insecurity, food insecurity is even seen as a wonky
kind of term that I have used. I've told that story so many different
times. Of this is what food insecurity is and it's, it's wonky, they're
like food but like what do you, what do you mean the food is, is when you
say it's insecure, like like is it, is it bad for you? Like it just, it
just confuses people? So then people will default to oh hungry people. Uh
And because it's easier for people to get to. So at the food bank in
trying to generate resources and generate volunteers for this particular
issue, you quickly realize that not only is it a hard issue for people to
talk about and to understand, but even the people that are seeking the
services, they don't want to talk about it, they don't, they want to get
in, they wanna get out. Um And because there's so much shame and guilt and
stigma that goes not just with poverty. Um but with food, it to look
yourself in the mirror
every morning and say I can't beat myself well, not feed yourself, period
, feed yourself well. Nor my kids
is an embarrassing, horrible admission. And
to move beyond that, to ask for help is an incredible act of courage and
bravery.
Some of the most bravest individuals I've ever seen are those that have
crossed the threshold of a food bank because they have, in most cases,
things have gotten so bad that they have to, it's a point of desperation.
Um But the opportunity at a food bank to work with those individuals and
to gain their trust
is that there's an opportunity there to then
help them in a way that can be transformative, that could prevent them
from becoming a chronic homeless individual can prevent them from making
horrible decisions on
crime, prostitution, um, abandoning their Children, these kinds of issues
,
food insecure hungry people, our
desperate,
desperate people make irrational choices
and that's where things get bad quick. Um, and it's real easy if you're
hungry. Um If you haven't eaten well, you're not thinking clearly. Um uh
in the Jewish tradition, um we fast for 26 hours in Yom Kur on the day of
a tournament
about hour 18 into that fast. I'm thinking less about what's being said
and the services and more about what I'm going to put in my stomach. Um
You know, eight hours from that point, you're not focused, you're not
thinking clearly. Um it even has the opportunity of making physical
changes to your body um to where it could almost debilitate you. And
that's just by not eating well, let alone starving. So, in those stories,
not only does it help you really understand? What does,
what does hunger look like in Arizona? What does it look like in, in the
United States? And it helps you see the shift. And this is part of the
storytelling is
hunger in America is less about starvation and it's more about
malnutrition
and, and that's very difficult for people to understand and it's also very
difficult for people to react to. It's easier to react to someone who's
starving. It's harder to react to someone who's facing malnutrition. Um If
they're starving, you give them food,
it doesn't matter what that food is.
It could be a Twinkie, it could be a cheeseburger. Um It doesn't matter.
Um And a structural challenge is within food banks. Um And it's not,
there's a, some incredible work that's been been done and it's gonna seem
like a criticism of food banks. So it's not a criticism. They play a very
important role on the emergency response but the the need within the
emergency response. Food system is so vast
in Arizona. This is the statistical part of the interview. Um One in four
Children
are food insecure and that's growing to one in three. It's like 29%
one in five adults. It's 20% one in seven seniors
in Arizona that are food insecure
in the last Feeding America hunger in America study from 2014. So last
summer, that's about 1.1 million people in Arizona. Um that face food
insecurity at some time.
Um We only have 6.5 million people in the state that's a high estimate. Um
That's a lot of people that are facing this issue. Um And since food
insecure people don't look like poor people, they don't have when and when
I say that it's uh I I borrow some term from colleagues in homelessness.
It's like the great thing about homelessness is that it's easy for people
to get their heads around. They can understand it because they could see
it. They may stereotype it. They may think man with a beard shopping cart
got it homeless. See it got it. Ok. Even though that's only 15 to 20% of
total homeless population, um mostly it's individuals that are working and
families and Children and those kinds of things. But it's easy for you to
get, to get around that when you go to hunger. They think. Oh, Sub Saharan
Africa flies all over their eyes, bloated stomach. Gotcha. That's what
hunger is in America. You're like, no, it's not, it's, you know, it's
actually someone's probably gonna be obese,
someone who is going to have chronic health issues. Um,
60% of that 1.1 million people, uh, in Arizona, um, work 32 hours plus a
week. Um, it's, it's people like you and me, they're doing everything that
they're supposed to do but it's not enough. Um, it's a, it's, it's a, it's
a poverty issue and specifically working poor issue. It's, it's not zero
income. It's mostly they have not, there's not enough income. So that's
one big theme, one big story, um, that you, that really, really drives
home at a food bank. A second big story and, and this is my language is
that I never really understood this issue. Until working at a food bank is
that
we as a society have a very bad relationship with food and that bad
relationship with food is just at its utmost visible visibility. Just it's
just, it's glowing with visibility at a food bank. Um In how people, what
they eat, the food choices, they make the food that's thrown away. Uh The
choice dilemma with food. Um
cooking, there's so many other, it's just a bad, bad relationship with
food. Um
How that you see that is
people will choose easy, convenient, even in desperation,
easy, convenient because that is what we as a society in the marketplace
demands more. Sometimes it becomes the only option, easy, convenient over
time builds a codependency to
wow, lack of resiliency skills.
I see more people and you can talk to a lot of different food banks. It's
from one of these weird kind of like stories that kind of pops up in the
food bank world. Easy Mac, which is like a brand of, of, you know, mac and
cheese. Like you can microwave one of the highest demand items.
Rice and beans is harder because not everyone knows how to cook rice and
beans.
Um and they'll prefer something that can be microwaved over something that
you have to cook. Um fresh fruits and vegetables. Not just only like I
used to think it was like that was a luxury item still is, is also not
preferred.
There's people who don't know how to grow, not just grow up, but they
don't know how to prepare and cook these fresh fruits and vegetables. And
, uh, and sometimes brains already go into like, oh, yeah. You know, like
kale and Swiss chard and all those different things. Like, what are you
gonna do that? It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
We're dogging tomatoes.
We're talking iceberg lettuce. We're talking potatoes. We're talking these
kinds of staple traditional things. I just don't know how to cook it. So
they won't pick it. You know, I would much rather have instant mashed
potatoes than a b like a £5 bag of potatoes. Um That those two big stories
at a food bank have what then seeing the opportunity of affecting that
change at, at the Valley Sun United Way. That was the big opportunity for
me because what food banks do really incredibly well is that they're
excellent at ending hunger today
tomorrow, we don't know.
So as long as you can provide a system for people to come back
to the food bank used to be, it was episodic hunger.
It's now changing to supplemental food.
That's a different conversation.
It, the food bank tradition was born, actually born in Phoenix, born in
Saint Mary's um a food bank um connected with the Catholic Diocese. Um
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Um And they've been, they do incredible,
amazing things. Um But even in that tradition,
it is the food bank was always seen as kind of that, that food pantry that
, you know, the pastor would have for emergency situations
when it shifts from that one time emergency to. Yep, you're gonna keep
coming back. That's a different conversation. So what the value and united
way is looking at is when you work with chronic food insecurity, the
definition of chronic food insecurity um from the US Department of
Agriculture is individuals that are rec that seek and receive an emergency
food source. Three out of four weeks in a month and or seven out of 12
months in a year, they're the frequent flyers. Um
Data is very hard in food and uh and food uh uh uh systems. Um just
because we're, it's still new. Um And because f food insecurity and hunger
relief really started in the faith tradition um which there's a wonderful
, beautiful things about that. Um But the downside is that when you have a
bunch of volunteers running a food pantry, they're less concerned about
data collection and more concerned about feeding the immediate line of
people in front of them as it helps them um demonstrate their faith. Um
And the beauty in that is that it's judgment free and its immigration
status or any of these other things like that just disappear, which is
fantastic. Um The downside is that telling the story with data is less of
an issue and less of a of a demand that's starting to change slow. Um So
chronic, to give an idea, the estimate uh with America accounting is that
of that 1.1 million people in Arizona. Um There is about 620,000
individuals that are facing some type of chronic food insecurity,
I'm sorry. Uh Just regular food insecurity. Oh The chronic food insecurity
, we estimate that close to half of those individuals are chronic food
insecure. So when we look at 82,000 households within Maricopa County, um
and a household, uh can be a household of one or a household of 10. Um
because that's what the data tells us. We estimate that that could be
upwards of around 200,000 to 300,000 individuals within Maricopa County
that are chronic food insecure. So when we look at chronic food insecure,
that's when we're looking at people that again, that's the combination of
people who have zero income and people who have, they're working full time.
That's a different story and a different conversation. So let's, I'm
gonna back up just a little bit. You mentioned the definition of um, food
insecurity. Can you go talk a little bit about what that is? Absolutely.
Uh So food insecurity is not starvation. Food insecurity is not knowing
where your next meal is coming from. If you are food secure, you know that
you are going to eat and you know where your meal is gonna come from. You
have that sense of security. So not only is food insecure, having the lack
of that. Um but what it creates is stress and anxiety. So again, food
insecure individuals are not starving. They are just intermittently eating
without any kind of knowledge of when that's going to happen. So when they
do eat, they will overeat, they will hoard food, they will just make
really odd choices around food um because it's a scarce resource. And so
when they do have the opportunity to eat, they will try to pack as many
calories as they possibly can and then take it with them. And h um the
best demon demonstration of this um and almost like a like a, a key
indicator. Um And my wife works as a preschool teacher. Um really easy to
tell food insecure kids because they're the ones who don't eat other
snacks and they put the leftover snacks in their pocket.
It's stress and anxiety, you're saving it for later. Um Happy food
insecure kids eat all their snacks
because they know they're going to get some more snacks. It's just that
little example is what happens with all food insecure individuals in some
way, shape or form. Um So that would be the definition of that and then
chronic is just obviously that over time. So let's talk a little bit about
um you mentioned the importance of data and that it's not being collected.
Why is it? Um I I understand why it's not being collected. But why is it
important to help for people to understand the food issue, the food and
security issues?
And there's this old expression, I think from Mike Bloomberg, you know,
believe in God, everything else use data. Um So, um it's probably a bad
expression but the, um,
uh dad tells a story. Um, it proves the story. Um, granted, you know, and
I learned this in, in, in politics, data can be used against you and it
doesn't matter, you know, whatever you come up with for data, someone else
will come up with data that counts your argument. Um But without data,
then it's just hearsay and guess work. And so data is so critical in order
to tell an accurate, reliable, dependable story of what you're trying to
make an argument for
why it's so critical with food insecurity. Then hunger is that you're
working in and within an issue that many people will argue does not exist
in the United States. Um
And this, this is where data can be used against you.
The example of poverty and obesity are linked
that freaks people out because it doesn't make any sense. How can you have
someone that is starving to be overweight? That doesn't make any sense,
right? Um But if you think that food insecurity is starvation, yep, that's
how it makes sense like, but you're, you should be like the flies all over
your eyes and a blood stomach you should be completely and totally
decimated. Um, that's what starvation is. That's what hunger is. Um, but
if you switch from food insecurity as malnutrition
and you say, like, well, actually, uh, you know, someone who's, you know,
food insecure, um, they have scarce resources and in scarce resources,
they're going to be as efficient with the dollar per calorie as they can.
One of the best examples of the most efficient caloric $2 examples out
there is the quarter pounder with cheese. Um, it's amazing. It's like,
what, 1500 to 1,802,000 calories for under $2
from a pure, like scientific fact. That's incredible. That's amazing. Oh,
my gosh. I mean, just, that's great. Um, but that's your primary food
source that you're always going to. And, um,
a related, like antidote one I heard on one podcast AAA family
practitioner who is working in, uh Washington DC. And she had this one
saying that has always stuck with me. Why do poor people eat poorly? The
answer because it tastes good
and related back to my own story
when you're poor. Not only is time a luxury, but normalcy is a luxury
and there is nothing that makes you more normal
than going through a drive through or ordering a pizza, just like everyone
else who's tired on a Friday night. Um, that's what people do. Um,
I see that lady with, you know, that suburban full of, of cars taking
their kids to go get a happy meal. Why can't I take my kids to it? Oh, and
that's cheaper than cooking and it takes less time to cook. I'm gonna do
that.
That's hard because that story is very difficult. It's hard to tell data
on that. Um So the data is so critical in order to tell that story. The
challenge is, is that once you shift, it's easy to get support for
starvation,
it's actually really easy to get started. And I mean, no elected official
who wants the image of, you know, emaciated, you know, uh people wandering
the streets like some zombie apocalypse movie. Ok. Um They will be all
over that in a second. OK? But once you shift it to malnutrition,
then it gets hard because now you're dealing with like people get really
concerned about choices. Um I've heard this time and time again,
you know, those people, it's always those people um
especially those people who receive snap benefits or food stamps um with
that extra money that they get with all that extra money, which for an
individual is maybe an extra $100 a month, you know, all that extra flush
with cash money that they have. Um I being sarcastic um is if they just
were making smarter choices and just weren't buying all that, you know,
all those chips and soda and everything like that, you know, they wouldn't
be so fat, they wouldn't get, you know, um those chronic health diseases
of, you know, the top three using data happened to be diabetes,
hypertension and osteoporosis. Those are the top three.
they're just making bad choices. They just don't know enough. They just,
they're just choosing this, this path, this lifestyle. I like to. Then I
love these arguments. Um, I actually get almost, probably inappropriately
excited about it. Um, it's a little bit of that poly sci aspect of it.
It's like, oh, we're going to have an argument. Um but um I would say this
is the opportunity for change. Um the um is the um I say, ok, I hear you.
I this is. Mhm. Ok, great. Um
Do what's more expensive?
A bag of apples or Cheetos
they say bag of apples because those Cheetos are, you know what, $2 for
like, I don't know, a giant bag of Cheetos, you know, it's gonna cost me
like 3 $4 for that bag of apples. Um Do you, you can just grab an apple
and eat out there? That's great. Wonderful. Ok, great. Um ok, so what's uh
what's more expensive um you know, top ramen um or
a whole chicken
and they'll be like, well, whole chickens obviously more but I mean,
that's, you know, they should just know, you know that, but if you cook it
the right way you can get like three meals out of that. Oh, ok. You're
assuming and then ask people. So do you know how to break down a chicken.
Do you buy the whole chicken, like right from a butcher, like, oh, I'm
sorry. Do you have a grocery store that actually in your neighborhood
that's easy for you to get to. That has a butcher in it where you can
actually buy a whole chicken for you to break down. They're like, oh, no,
my butcher just breaks it down for me and I just get the, the, you know,
the good breast meat like, oh, that sounds really nice. You know, not
everyone has all of those things you just described and I say so you have
the time to cook,
you know, and then, and then, but that kind of conversation is different
and it's a hard conversation. Um because it starts to talk about the root
causes of food insecurity and the root causes of poverty and that's hard.
That's, and then it gets, it gets hard quick. Um you know, assuming that
people know how to cook things. And one of the, this is, it's
controversial for me to say this, but it one of the, the, the hardest
things that are out there and I know it's not intended that way is the,
the snap the Snap Food Stamp challenge where they say take a week living
on a food stamp budget. What could you do? I made the argument that anyone
could do anything in a week. Ok. Um And I've seen people be really
successful in that because they're like, yeah, I'm just gonna eat Cheetos
and I'm gonna eat, you know, ramen for a week. I can do that for seven
days. Ok. I can even feed my kids like that for seven days. Um, on the
eighth day I know I'm gonna change and go back to healthy habits. Ok, if I
choose to do healthy habits. Ok. And people are like, no, you're supposed
to eat healthy. They're like, no, I have X number of dollars. You know, if
I want to win this game, I'm going to, you know, I'm gonna stretch that
dollar as much as I possibly can. Right? I say that's nice. Ok, why don't
you do this snap month challenge?
Do that over time. Um do that over weeks of working weeks of kids in
childcare, weeks of kids taking them to sports. Um that gets hard quick
because then you're like, oh my gosh, like why are my Children so
lethargic?
Why don't my kids wake up? Why don't they have any, any energy? Why don't
they go out and play? It's like, oh yeah, cause they're eating
cheeseburgers every night, they're drinking soda all the time, you know,
that gets hard quick but to deal with the root causes of that is not only
income
but what to do with that income. Um Do they know how to do a budget?
You know, and then I start the opportunity of change that I kind of joked
about earlier but is to have larger conversations on who taught you life
skills.
You know, was it, did you, did you, were you lucky enough to have a parent
at home? They taught you how to cook, they taught you how to break down
that chicken, you know. Um, another funny ironic thing that comes out, um
, is, um, uh,
during Thanksgiving fun fact, um, 40% of all charitable, uh, cash and food
donations for food banks in the city of Arizona. And I think across the
entire nation comes in from November 1 to December 31. Ok. It's the giving
season. Um, and it's when food is, has their moment in the spotlight. Ok.
The great irony is like, well, people like to eat 12 months out of the
year, not just two sidebar. Um, but the, how this really becomes ironic is
one of the more popular, I don't think it's the most, but one of the more
popular giving opportunities during Thanksgiving is the turkey drive.
So this is why I asked, like, do you know how to cook a turkey?
Do you know how to cook a turkey for two people?
If I were to hand you a frozen £12 turkey right now, would you know how to
thaw it, break it down, break those down into, say smaller meals that can
spread over the course of a week. Um And when you give that turkey during
Thanksgiving, are you expecting them to do that or they ex you expecting
them to have the same kind of normal and Rockwell kind of experience that
you get to have at home.
How are you helping them?
That's a harder conversation. And that kind of example is that's what's
difficult when you start shifting into the malnutrition argument because
it's not just malnutrition of the caloric intake, but it's also
malnutrition of the community of self that support system that's around
that individual. And that is the, that's the big challenge and that's so
that is so very critical. It is very hard to tell that story. Um You can,
you can connect the dots with people that are having these chronic health
issues um that happen to be poor and food insecure. But by the time you
get to that point now you're having a different conversation. Now you're
playing defense. Um Now you're working with someone who has diabetes and
is poor and has food insecure.
That's hard, that's really hard. You're not in prevention anymore. You're
in treatment. Um It's a medical issue now. Um But to get people to before
that comes, that's what's hard to say like, well, what are, what's the
data points that tell that story, I can make arguments that it is, it is
those poverty statistics. It is um uh you know, measuring resiliency
skills. Um It is actually taking, you know, food security assessments. Um
It is, and there's a lot of other kind of data points which were really
good on an individual level, but get harder on a larger level. Um, because
you have to build enough trust to sit down with someone for them to say,
yep, I can't feed my kids. I need help. And how is that done? I mean,
because like you said, they have to build that trust and how do you sit
that person down and say this person at a time? That's hard. And,
and I'm really excited that the Valley in the United Way is doing this
work. And then we, we've embraced this concept and this is a new stuff.
How do we do it in an appropriate culturally competent way?
We as the nonprofit sector, we as the charitable sector need to stop doing
stuff to communities.
We're really good at it. Um without understanding our privilege, without
understanding our role in this world um to understand the luxury that we
have to work on these particular issues,
but we're not going to be effective. We need to change to, instead of
doing something to communities and to individuals, how can we work with
them?
And that's, it's a subtle shift, but it's a, it's a paradigm shift. It is
a, it's, it's, it's, it's hard. It's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
And you know, you're starting to see some things. But gosh, I've had some
, some wonderful conversations with colleagues and the nutrition field and
public health field. And it's hard. It's like you just because you just
want to get in there and you see all these problems and it's like, look
lady with these kids stop doing that, you know, do this. You know, you
should wag your finger at someone and Titi tisk and judgment, judgment,
judgment, you know, don't you see what you're doing to your kids? Of
course they do, they see it but they're trying to, they got other problems
that are much more pressing to make a parallel back to the challenges of
being a first year student
in college. It is without that lack of, of cultural competency and
understanding where they are and how each it's gonna be different for
everybody. Um There's gonna be some commonalities but the, but the biggest
commonality is just taking the time to get to know that person and get to
know that community. Um And without understanding that not only helps you
, you're never going to solve the problem by understanding that community
and understanding that individual, it allows you to not only really
understand the root causes, they're going to just be slightly different
how an uh an amazing strategy we're doing at the vaccinated way is we have
shifted from just a county wide plan to more place based plans and a place
could be a community, it could be a school, it's a place. And what that
allows us to do is change the conversation from, well, everyone in the
county is the same because we're all Arizonans. Um, and everyone that's
food insecure is the same there. Great. Um Nope, that's wrong. Um, there's
gonna be some commonalities. Um, certainly, um, in data can show us that
even in the 82,000 chronic households. Yeah. Ok. We get that. But how,
what made people food insecure and what's going to help them get out of
food insecurity to be food secure and what made them poverty and move them
in, out of poverty. How that impacts people that live in? Maryvale is
going to be different than Deer Valley. That's gonna be different than
Guadalupe. That's gonna be different in Gilbert, that's gonna be different
in Scottsdale, that's gonna be different in South Phoenix. That's gonna be
different in, in, uh, uh, Sun City because this place that we live in
Maricopa County is its own state.
It's huge and there's a lot of people last census information, close to
4.1 million people. It's the same geographic areas like West Virginia or
something like that. It's just ridiculous. It's a huge area. It's, it
takes two hours to drive from one side of the metropolitan area to the
other side, you know, in two hours, I can be in Mexico. Ok. I mean, that's
, that's big and without understanding where those places are, you're not
gonna ever have the opportunity to have the conversation to build trust
and so it's different. It's gonna take longer to do it. But if you can
earn that trust with an individual and in that community, you can start
dealing with so many other issues that wrap into that, the other challenge
and opportunity. And, and again, why we're, I'm excited what we're doing
at the United Way is that we also have to understand that these are not
just a one issue that helped them do this. OK? That made them food
insecure. Um It's layered. Um, it's a lot of things. OK. Uh And that's,
that's a challenge because it's, I, I use the example of like when, um
I'll go back to like the divorce example. Um,
very rarely a relationship falls apart because of one thing. Um, it's
usually a number of things over compounded over time. Um, yeah, maybe it
could be one thing but really if you start peeling away that onion, you
know, it wasn't just the affair, it was a lot of other things that kind of
led to that. And how did you work with someone? So, you know, as someone
who has worked, you know, not worked with my friends, I work with my
friends. Um, but it's, uh, um that's, that's what I work in human services.
Um, they, uh um some friends that have gone through this and
it's, those are hard conversations over time to build the trust in order
to even identify and articulate what those root causes are. And that's
hard for somebody you have a friendship with on a hard personal topic.
Well, one of the hardest personal topics out there is food insecurity and
poverty. Um, and to de,
in order, uh, when you develop a friendship with someone you have earned
and demonstrated a level of trust where you can do almost anything. The,
the Arizona test is a true friend, is someone that's gonna help you move
in July. Ok. Um, you know, uh, you know, a not so real friend is like, oh
, it's December. Yeah, no problem. You know, my true friend is gonna be
out there at seven o'clock in the morning when it's 100 degrees already
and move all the stuff in the hottest day of the year because it's always
the hottest day of the year when you move. That's what a true friend is
gonna do there and they're not gonna hesitate. Ok. Um
That is the kind of trust that you, I think you need to aspire to and, and
, and everything needs to be coined towards it. It needs to be more
personal. That's how you deal with root causes. That is very difficult,
very easy on one on ones and it's, you know, I've heard some people and
kind of hearing this, they're like, so what we need to do is build armies
of social workers and counselors and just dive into these communities. I'm
like, yeah, that's not realistic. Um That's my question. How do you do
this in in play space, but you can, and there's already models that are
out there that help with this. And so like, one of those models is even in
the faith community and the faith community has demonstrated how you can
mobilize and impact change within a large group of individuals towards
something positive. And
it's not the one, sometimes it does seem like it's the one pastor or the
one rabbi that is out there working with 500 families. That's not the
truth. What that pastor or what that rabbi is doing is they build that
cohesive network of trust that extends um going back into you're asking me
of like the culture of philanthropy, if you can get individuals to not
only understand an issue and give them a positive rewarding opportunity to
take action in that particular issue that generates an excitement that
they want to do more of and they're gonna tell more people of
you do. That's how communities are built. Um
sports teams fandom. How do people become fans? How do people stay fans?
How do people pass on that fandom to their Children?
It's because they're really excited about it and then they take them to a
shared experience and they have a really good time and it changes their
life in that way and it becomes a part of their life. Um It's a culture of
fandom. Um a culture of philanthropy is doing that not only with people
that want to affect change, but it's also how to work with a community
that needs to be changed. Um It's working with individuals and spreading
that kind, demonstrating trust, demonstrating love because it all comes
back down to love. You can't do it with hate that's gets harder that way.
Um But it is, that is a, you can do that. And there's a examples where you
where like really good positive examples in the faith community have done
that. We've also seen where um specifically around the food security issue
if you can get a breakfast in the classroom started at a school. Um And
Arizona is really bad when it comes to food and security for Children. As
I mentioned, the one and for um Children um really bad when it comes to
larger kind of programs that are out there. Um And while we have very good
, um because it's federally mandated um free, reduced lunch and meal
programs for schools because they have to do it. Um The, the participation
rate in those programs is very low, especially around breakfast. Um And so
, and just again, to give you an idea in a lot of the schools that we're
working with, especially in high need areas I'm talking about and high
need in this area is looking at the percentage of Children that qualify
for, for free and reduced lunch in a school. Um So in high, 90% above 70%
and above. Um and there is a lot of schools, a lot of schools that
surround the Tempe campus right here. Um, and
what they find is that, um, kids don't just jump off the bus and run
straight to the cafeteria to eat, to get that food. What happens like kids
, our kids and they run to the playground with their friends and they
won't wanna be seen as the poor kid.
Even in, I've seen this and even in schools where 100% of the Children are
free and reduced, hey, they still don't want to be seen as the poor kid.
Then they want normalcy.
You can even compound that with the pressures that are placed on schools
for school performance and test performance and how that's reduced the
amount of play and resource and, and recess time enough time for them to
hang out with their friends. The social time I go back to why do poor
people eat poorly because it tastes good
kids. They're, yeah. Uh cafeteria on the left playground with my friends
on the right. You know, if I have 30 minutes I'm gonna go play and they do
, they're just being Children and that's great. You know, there's nothing
wrong with that. Um, and then they show up and, you know, they have a
teacher who was asked, you know, when is lunch 15 times a day, you know,
because they haven't eaten anything and they're gonna just, they're gonna
just plug it out to lunch. The participation rate is on average between 20
40% in those areas. But so if you let kids be kids, you just, you know who
, you know, the community that you're working with. Um and you understand
them, you've taken the time to understand them at their base root level.
Children are gonna be goofy and weird. Ok, great. Good for them. Right.
There's nothing wrong with that. Um
by switching to a breakfast in the classroom model. Now you have 100% of
your kids that are getting free and reduced lunch, um, breakfast. Um, now
they're all eating
and now they can be successful. But we've seen in place is that once you
start that kind of program. Mhm. Different conversations happen. Um, not
only do you see kids showing up on time to class because they have another
incentive to go show up to class and they can get food. They just played
or maybe they're running late. But gosh, you know what, I don't want to
miss breakfast there. It also gives you a chance to, hm, eat with an adult.
And that's a big thing. It's a little thing that we take for granted, but
for some of these kids they actually don't eat with adult. You also get a
chance to share a meal with peers.
Think about how many joyful occasions that you've had in your life that
involved sharing a meal.
It's part of who, uh, part of humanity. Um
And to do that with peers, even at work, how often around the lunchroom
table? Have you been able to share some time with your peers? Well, kids
need that too. That's their work. They go and do their job, which is at
school. It changes that dynamic. It also allows you not only to feed the
nutritious food, but then you can actually work with a teacher to say why
is nutritious food important?
Yes, this f some food is fun to eat every once in a while. But what
happens when you eat all this bad food over time? Oh I feel bad. You know
what happens when you eat this? Oh I feel pretty good. You can have those
conversations. You could have that education outcome. Um You could talk
about, you know, um be negative behaviors in a classroom. You could talk
about absenteeism, you can talk about eventually grade detainment cause
more butts and seats repeated. I've heard helps with school achievement. I
mean sarcastic but that is, that really adds to that opportunity. And that
is a theory in place that is how you deal with food insecurity in place.
It can also allow you that once you actually have removed that food
insecurity off of a household that now a parent doesn't have to worry
about breakfast and now they can shift those resources into dinner. That
helps a little bit. Um I've even seen opportunities in some schools where
they actually instituted. Um, not only they have a breakfast in the
classroom and they have the free and reduced lunch that they started
dinner in the classroom or dinner at school where now families can come to
school and have dinner, um, that maybe paid $2 a meal. They're paying the
market rate, which is fine. That's great. Um, but now those families can
talk to each other, the families can sit down and share a meal together.
They can build a support system
with the commonality of their, of their Children who and their friends,
the, the kids can go play, the parents can sit and have a meal together.
Hm. Like that's parent engagement. Um, why is sharing that meal so
important? It's community, it's love. Um, that is
to, to me, uh, uh, food is, is, is, is an act of love. Uh, food is that
when I use the term nourishment, it nourishes your soul. Um, I demonstrate
love, uh, with my wife and people that I care about by cooking them a meal.
Um, and there is something that happens when you, when, hm, it's, it's,
it's animal, it's an animal behavior. When animals are eating, they have
to be less stressed, helps with the digestion. It helps you focus, you're
not in that fight or flight kind of situation. It, it, it, it, it lowers
your blood pressure. It, it allows you to relax and
when you do it in a communal sense with a family, with your neighbors
within a school. And that's even in the, the uh the whole concept of place
, even in a home or in a shared space, a third space that allows
individuals
the time to make those connections, to share stories, to practice um
listening uh to, to problem solve. Um That is, you know, there, there was
a time when there was not a word of therapy and counseling.
Um You just had a good family connection and there's people you could talk
to about good things and bad things.
The dinner table allows you to do that
and the more we can have that repeated, um
Some of the very best memories of my life have been and even with my
mother who's past, have been
her, teaching me how to cook and then us eating that food together. Um
That's how I honor her memory is by
Bye demonstrating that
West
more and more people that I love and
even the opportunity to
show people that that's, it's ok to let the barriers break down to let the
stresses of the day break down because you know what,
at least we can sit down and have a good meal. You know, that's beautiful.
And that is where you can, you can demonstrate trust, you can earn trust
, you can demonstrate and earn love. And that's where change happens.
We just, that's where continuing of good things happen. And it's
reinforced
when we're alone
that's hard. Um That is that sense of isolation and desperation and
pessimism
that is for someone who's alone um And to reconnect people on their terms
in a way that makes sense to them and building that con that network,
that's where you can actually get things done. Um Or just continue things
if you think about people ask me, you know, what does, what is a good
community look like? What does um good old maso and this hierarchy of
needs? You know, what does self actualization really look like? And to me
, it is the,
you see it at home of a family that is safe enough, secure enough,
confident enough with enough love and trust and listening and they have a
para meal together
and I've used that example and people be like the, do you if I were to ask
you like, how many times did that happen in your life? And people will
think back to
that time, the last time that their grandmother was in their house usually
over a holiday or a birthday celebration um or a wedding or a funeral. Um
common thread, it's food,
it's a meal, it's not just food, it's not just like, you know, big raw
produce that's out there. It is someone took the time to prepare that for
you and they want you to eat it and, and then you can do, you can
reciprocate, you could do the same for them. That's how you can build the
trust. It's, it's beyond the concept of breaking bread with someone. Um,
it's deeper and that's where you can store memories. Um, and those
memories can then be reinforced as those trusting building blocks that you
can then handle bigger things. Ok. So we're at 142.
All right.
Ok. This is a continuation of the Herr interview. Let's talk about the
goals and the mission of, um, your organization, please. Absolutely. So,
at the Valet and United Way, um our mission is to mobilize a caring uh
community. Uh And we demonstrate that through uh tackling um key
initiatives um that we feel are vital to a successful thriving community.
So, um our core um initiatives are to ensure Children you succeed uh
increase financial stability and then end chronic homelessness and, and
chronic hunger. Um big things, um commonality through some of those is
poverty. Um But sometimes not. Um So that is definitely something that uh
we are focusing in on. Ok. So let's talk about. Um we've kind of touched
base over a little bit about the, the main issues or the challenges facing
um facing Arizonans with food insecurity. OK. So the, the main issues um
that uh for those in Arizona that are facing food insecurity really comes
down to
um
uh its most basic level is a lack of income, um a lack of sufficient
income, um specifically, um a lack of time um in order to either achieve
that income or as a, as a result of not um having enough income, you have
to use more time because work more hours. Um And then um kind of a third
thing and this is dependent. Um uh It's a little bit of a problem
statement, but it's also an opportunity statement. It is a lack of or a
challenge of community. And I say challenge as opposed to lack is that in
some of the communities that we're working in uh in place. Um That's
actually the thing that they have going for them is community. Um And that
is an incredible asset that you can actually work with um in other
communities, other places, there is no community and that's a huge
challenge. Um And, and they don't know their neighbors, they don't want to
know their neighbors. Uh They are living in complete and total isolation.
Um And so it is, those would be some of the, the three top issues. OK. Can
you um tell, explain to me your um definition of food sustainability?
So, from my definition of food sustainability
um is beyond the
uh it's beyond kind of a food systems kind of frame. Um And specifically
on, you know, the growth of food and um the production of food. Um and the
sale of food, that's part of my bias of working in food and security. Um
that um in most cases, the growth in production of food is a luxury yet it
does influence it, um especially in cost. Um And it's also in kind of
going back into uh the overarching story of, of people's bad relationship
with food uh in this country,
a poor food system or a, a poor understanding of a food system um
reinforces the bad relationship with food. So if you don't know where your
food comes from, um you don't know the kind of cost or time that it took
to produce that food. Um You can just think that I should, it's my, it's
my right as an American to get strawberries year round. Um why not? And
they should be cheap, right? Um And, and that's a challenge and that's,
that's part of that bad relationship with food um to and in part of any
even kind of work. A more of a local example is um the state of Arizona
has an agricultural history, um a rich agricultural history. Um in some
cases, especially during the wintertime, we grow more food in the state
than we consume. Um because when it's cold everywhere else, it's warm
enough here. And so we can grow winter lettuce, we can grow winter
vegetables. Um we can grow citrus, but there's incredible that we uh
produce a lot of, of, of cattle uh for market, there's a lot of these
different things. Um But if you don't know that and if you don't
appreciate that um or just have a basic understanding of what that that
what that is but also what that means. Um or if you don't care about it,
um, that changes your whole concept of what a food system and food
sustainability actually is. Um, if you expect there to be always cheap
beef um without any ramifications and to see how that's connected to
Arizona and California's water issue. Um, mm, I mean, that's you, you kind
of lose something there like again if you expect there to always be fresh
strawberries year round, um or if you expect there to always be plentiful
, cheap ground beef. Um Without any of that secondary question, that's the
definition of a bad relationship with food. So I think that so to in my
frame in the food security lens is
with food sustainability, you have to, to change that relationship with
people's food um and have a sustainable relationship with food and that
involves where it comes from, how it's produced. What does it mean to have
seasonal food? Um But it's also, it's, to me, it is part of that change
that has that relationship with food is how can we demonstrate that
locally grown seasonally produced food is superior than not? Um And that
is such a statement of luxury of luxury and privilege. Um And that's the
issue. My challenge is that unfortunately. Um And I say this with as much
respect and as someone who is within this, the system,
the question of food sustainability is a question at a point of privilege
and that's hard. Um Again, poor people don't care. Um Poor people have
other things to worry about. Um If you're, if you have a sick kid, the
only thing you think about is that sick kid, you can't, if you were
worried about paying your mortgage or rent, you're not thinking about the
sustainability of your food, just don't care. Um
E an example of this is that again, you work in, in, in food and hunger a
lot and I hear amazing stories from individuals and with a lot of heart
and a lot of passion, they're doing incredible things and I'll hear like
what we really need to do to solve this whole food insecurity thing. Jason
farmers markets everywhere. I'm like, hm, that does sound awesome. Um And
I know what you're, I know why you're saying that because you're trying to
increase local food production in a sustainable um seasonally produced way
that could potentially also start um a form of business and economic
engine for local communities. I totally get that. Got it. But
if I had the choice between a $5 pair
or do you use that $5 at a Walmart? And if I'm poor,
I think I'm gonna go to Walmart
because I could get a lot more stuff. And now I say stuff, I mean, food to
feed my family, like meals for my family as opposed to I'm sure which is a
very delicious $5 pair. Um And it may be the very best pair I've ever had
in my life. OK. But I don't care about that. So that is a big challenge in
under it's part of that cultural competency.
We need to understand the position and luxury of even asking these
questions and what that actually means to even the systems that we're
trying to affect change. Ok. So let's talk about um how do we change the
relationship with um about um food insecure um relationship with food? Yes.
Thank you.
Building trusting relationships, one person, one community at a time
and working to some of the natural advantages that may already exist. And
this is actually, this is, this is actually exciting because I think this
is actually one of the easier things to do. Um And this is where you can
strategically use a lot of the passion between food sustainability and
food systems work um in a very positive way,
work with communities that have good relationships with food. OK. Um That
and part of that good relationship with food is even how you, you uh a
family comes together to prepare that food. So, in Arizona, there's a
large population of native born multigenerational Latino communities. Um
It is beautiful how they build family and community in multigenerational
ways. Um That is a part of having a good relationship with food. I learned
in Tucson and being again, not a native but close enough to a native to
Arizona. Um, there's something beautiful around making tamales together.
It's, that's a good food system. That's a good relationship with food
because it's doesn't cost a lot. It's delicious and you do it together as
a family and when you make tamales, well, they don't have to be that bad
for you. Um, they're certainly better for you than buying them from a
store. Um, it's the same kind of concept when in other communities that do
uh the L DS community has a, the, has an amazing rich tradition in, in
Arizona, the kind of family parties I do around canning. Oh my gosh,
that's incredible. Growing food, local food um in their backyard or in a,
in a shared community farm and then canning and saving the extra food. If
you break that down, that is not only, you know, education and what's a
good food system, what it means to grow your own food, what it means to
budget, what resiliency skills are reinforced in there and family skills.
I mean, that's a good definition of uh that's a good food system that is a
good relationship with food. So leveraging with those, those natural
advantages and learning from them. And how can we take some of these kinds
of traditions that make sense that are already prove it's not a proven
thing. It's just what we do. It's how we live our life. That's how we've
always lived our life. It's not a big deal. It's just, this is what we do.
We've always done this. I make tamales banana. What do you want? You know
, and it's, and you see those things but we have to look beyond the, we
have to look more into those communal things. Not the individual things.
Yes, we could teach everyone how to cook.
Why, for whom? For you? You know, I mean, I, I'm very fortunate I know how
to cook. Um, it's, it's a practice, um, that will never learn everything
but it's so much more enjoyable when I could cook for somebody when it's
for myself. I like, like crap. Ok. I just do. And again, this is not, it's
not, this is obvious things. It's, is the example of like, when, you know
, you have a married couple and like one of the partners leaves for the
weekend, the other person who stays at home eats like crap because they're
cooking for themselves. Ok? Or they're not cooking, they're just eating
whatever comes in front of them. Right. Um, that's what isolation does to
you because if it's just for yourself then it doesn't really matter. I, OK
, I'll just, I'll have cheese and, and nacho chips. You know. You know, my
wife, my dear wife, who I love when I'm working late, she makes herself
quesadillas. I don't know why she doesn't make herself quesadillas. Ok.
Because, and I asked her one time, like, why do you make yourself
quesadillas? She's like, it's the first food and I, I was able to prepare
for myself. I'm like, oh, that's cute. You know, it's great. Um, and then
I understand that, you know, so we kind of root down but when you cook for
someone else then you can introduce because now you're like, I want not
only this to be delicious for you, but I don't want to make you fat or
poison you. Ok? And so I'm gonna care about it. OK. And, and, and because
it's not only, it's, it's, it's again, when you cook for someone, it's a
demonstration of trust and it's a demonstration of love. Um That is a
better relation. That's that better relationship with food. So tell me um
your thoughts um about or I guess the organization's thoughts about the,
the growing gardens in the area or growing your own. Um Is that
sustainable? Is that it can be? Yeah. And so um does that help solve the
problem? I think it helps
on the issue of changing relationship with food. Um which I think is a
stepping stone that helps with addressing food insecurity. Um The
challenge is, is that um where are you growing that food? And who are you
growing the food with? And who is it for? Um If it's just for you, for
your family, that's good that changes your individual and your family's
relationship with food. And that's fantastic. And hopefully those skills
can be reinforced and developed over time. Excellent
to address the food insecurity component. Why don't you grow some of that
food for your local food bank?
Why don't you show others in your neighborhood
how to grow food? Um My wife, she, she has to have a little garden at her
preschool because I would not let her do anyway. Um
Just four year olds growing radishes and carrots and they think radishes
and carrots are the most delicious fun things in the world that is a way
of teaching nutrition,
teaching a better relationship with food to where you develop a taste for
food. Um, that a practice, it becomes fun and interesting. It's not
something that this whole knowledge of like, oh my, my parents maybe eat
all the vegetables, anything you're made to do. You don't wanna do that.
Uh, because it sucks and it's boring and you don't want it. That's awful.
It's, it's seen in a negative. But if you're like, yeah, I grew that
broccoli,
it's delicious but I made it. I grew that, that's a different conversation.
That's part of the different conversation with food and applying those
different. It's not just learning in it, but then applying the knowledge
with other people. It's not just learning how to cook, it's cooking with
people. That's how you shift from. I love people that grow gardens, but
add on to that, grow food for others. It's not just to feed yourself, feed
others outside of your network and leverage the natural opportunity that
comes with food,
cook for other parents that are in your kid's school instead of having a
play date and just sending your child out into the, to the ether to go and
play with some other and just hoping that they come back, like, why don't
you have a play date where you barbecue something, you cook something
together as two families. I'm not saying you have to do it every week. But
does that then you get to know the people that your kids are playing with
, you know, um, that changes that kind of conversation. And gosh, wouldn't
it be amazing to if it, it's something that came out of your own garden
and let that be a conversation starter. I've seen,
it's almost like, it's almost like dog walking. It's a really weird thing.
It's like dogs can really break down those barriers and start a level of
conversation that builds trust gardens do the same. I've seen that. Um,
it's cu it's curious, it's weird that way, but it's a positive weird.
Ok,
continuation of an interview
with Mr Matthews. I, I'd like to ask you a question. You mentioned, your
wife is a kind a preschool teacher. Can she see? I know you mentioned
about the snacks and she sees them saving it. Can she see when Children
are hungry and what it, how it affects them in the classroom? Absolutely.
Um, yeah. Um, and it's not just with her, her and her experience but um in
having conversations with other um teachers um throughout the valley, um
uh
um uh the impact of food insecurity and the impact of um of poverty. But
how it kind of effectuates and as demonstrated through food insecurity can
especially be seen and just attentiveness, um temperament um uh just
how pleasant of a kid they are and if they're paying attention. Um and
it's not, to me it, it's when you say it like that, I automatically think
about my own experiences and I'm like, yeah, when I'm hungry, I'm cranky
and I'm not paying attention. Um, and it's just because your, your minds
on some something else, um, that I think is kind of the immediate, um,
kind of food insecure. I think some of the larger, some of the longer term
, especially when you're working with some of those chronic food insecure
over time is, um, you'll see how
someone who's eating poorly over a long period of time is going to start
to show those signs of, of being lethargic, of decreased energy, of just
kind of all over the place. Like it's not just, it's like, it's, it's a
chronic state of, of lack of attention, but it's also kind of like highs
and lows. Um, and, and it's, it's more than just like, yeah, they had a
bunch of sugar right, for the lock in and now they bounce out the walls.
It's, it's more of like their, their whole body chemistry is off and that
is, that can be demonstrated over time, you know, and even just, um, she
has seen where, uh kind of to demonstrate the lot that bad relationship
with food with, even at a, at a young age, even how rewards are done. Um
And, um, but she's, she's seen and to me this is a demonstration of our
overall bad relationship with food. but how often we use food as a reward.
Um, that's part of that reward system. Um, you got a promotion, let's go
out to dinner. Um, we uh birthday dinner. Um, and, um, when you're poor
that becomes even more when your food insecure that is amplified. Um I
remember my own experience where, um, my mom, when something good happened
, we would go to Sizzler, ok? And because it was, you know, steak and
shrimp and the all you can eat, you know, salad bar or whatever like that
for 799. Um, but that was, it was a, it was a big deal. You're gonna go to
Sizzler. I mean, because something big happened, you know, like we got a
tax refund. Yeah, Sizzler. Right. And so, um, but what she's seen with a
preschool is that if you're trying to demonstrate
good forms of reward through praise, um, and teaching praise and empathy
amongst peers that doesn't involve food, it's different, it's a different
conversation um, that we're still kind of trying to process it because
it's, it's strange, you know, and she will even say, like, you know, um,
it's not real unless they get like a, like a treat,
you know, like it's not like, you know, and she's kind of been kind of
processing like they could, you know, they could do this amazing project
or they could just demonstrate an amazing empathy to their, to, you know,
their peer. But if they don't have like a good thing to eat that comes
with it, then it's not like a real thing. Um They didn't see the meaning
behind it. It's hard. Can you talk a little bit about what you think the
um why it's important? What is important for the future of food insecurity
? What? Mm. Um Yeah. So the future of food insecurity and how to really
address food insecurity and it won't take, it's not gonna happen overnight.
Um
It's really reinforcing a lot of things that, that we had discussed
earlier. It is the um it's a better understanding of our food system. It
is changing that relationship with food. Um And it's also, it's just
changing our relationship with our fellow human beings. Um It, it's gonna
take a shift away from the stealth to others um and others outside of your
own immediateness. Um I say that a lot, they're like, yeah, I really paid
all my attention to my kids. Kids don't count. Of course you're gonna pay
attention to your kids. Um I hope you're gonna obviously take care of your
kids. Um But it's caring about other people's kids. It's caring about the
um the senior who lives by him or herself on the street. Um There is a
really bad example of this, that is a heartbreaking example. A few months
ago, there was a story um through social media um of um an individual who
was uh an older individual, I think it was like 80 between 80 plus. Um,
and he ended up calling 911 and the nine because he was starving at home
and the 911 operator, um, sent over a police officer with groceries and
with some prepared, um, sandwiches and things like that. Now when I
started sending that over people like, oh, that's beautiful that they're
just, they focused on the police officers that responded
and I said, you know, um, that is nice. Thank goodness we have these
public servants, um, who have to care about and have been charged with a
duty to care about other people. Ok. Um, that's their job. Thank goodness
we have them. Um, but imagine if he, that older gentleman lived in such a
caring community that, that his neighbors knew that he was going to the
hospital to have this procedure done. Um, they noticed he wasn't around,
they, they looked, they looked for him. They, they cared enough to ask,
they cared enough to say hi. Um, and that, you know, they noticed when he
came home and they went and checked on him and they said, do you have
everything you need? Um, a caring community doesn't need to have the
resort to where he has to call. He's had such little connection with the
people that he lived around and lived with in a, in a neighborhood, they
had to call the police in order to have people bring him food.
So the the future and I think the solution is how can we build more of
that outward focus? How can we ask ourselves, you know, who else can we
work with? Who else can we connect with? Um And seeing how that is not an
act of,
it's actually in a strange way, it's actually an act of selfishness, uh
selflessness. Um actually selfishness by turning outward, you can actually
, you're gonna get a lot more out of it. Um It's not just the whole like,
you know, giving gifts is better than receiving gifts, but it is,
don't you want to live in a community where everyone is happy and healthy
?
I mean, maybe the opposite is less appealing, but you have an effect to
that you can help your neighbors be successful just by saying hi to them.
Um by taking the time to ask how their kids are doing by, you know, if
you're out in the yard, mowing your yard and you see the, you know, their
neighbors, kids playing, you know, keep an eye after them. You know, you
don't have to tell them how to raise their kids. But just, gosh, if you
see it, you know, a car that's speeding down the road, I hope you look
after that kid. You know,
and then if they do that for you, that's a good thing too. You know, and
if we're all looking outward then it's, uh, you're gonna benefit from it.
Um You know, you're gonna have that support system, that resiliency.
That's how we really address the food insecurity. So let's talk a little
bit uh quick question about what you um So you mentioned the goals for
2020 were to eliminate 22 3rd of chronic food insecure. So what do you
think the goals will be for 2040 for the reality by 2040? What are you
hoping? The reality of the 2040 is food insecurity? Mm Great question. Um
A I think that we will, we'll be, we'll be able to achieve our goals. Um
But there will be more work to do and the,
the trick or kind of the, the, the challenge statement is, how do we,
how do we see the product of success? And what does that look like? And so
the an opportunity and I think a little bit of a of a to stretch ourselves
and to push it is in a way we need to either need to add to our goals or
we need to adjust our goals and
what does success look like? Um And redefine that. So if it's just about
ending chronic hunger for 82,000 households, that sounds wonderful. How,
tell me how and what does that look like? Um
It's, we would already make the argument that we are going to address the
root causes of food insecurity. Great. What does that look like? Um That
means happy, healthy communities. That means people that are happy and
unicorns and rainbows. Great. What does that look like? And so it's taking
that time and challenging ourselves to go one step further and we at the
United Way. Um I, I know I say this a lot and probably get some rolling of
ice, but
I just don't want it just to in chronic food insecurity with these
households. Um and places in Maryvale in Central city, South and Guadalupe
and these other communities around Maricopa County.
I wanna be a part and work with the community to transform it into the
very best places to live in the valley and not to gentrify it. No, no, no
, no. It's, it's to raise that element of community pride where they take
care of each other that they, our definition of success should be. How can
we get the families and households that we're working with and the
businesses that we're working with to become a future donor and volunteer
the United Way
that's different. It's not to like, how do we get all the, how do we
mobilize all these donors and volunteers to do all this stuff like this?
OK. How do we grow our donor database?
Um to get someone to the point that they're so confident and have enough
resources where they can donate that time? They have an abundance of time
so they can donate, they have an abundance of resources to donate cash.
They have, we have s we have smart and reinforced that element of
philanthropy to where they now have received it. They've appreciated it.
They see the value of it and now they, they feel it's their time
to repair the world and give back, that is a better measurement. Um
That is, that's not written down anywhere, but that should be kind of that
level of, of, of, of goal attainment, uh individual household community.
Can you tell me um what policy changes or other um cha changes at the
state level that you think could make an impact um to achieve these goals
? Yeah. Um This is when it gets, it gets hard um
changing policies and changing the attitude that victimizes and shames the
poor um as a philosophy and the policies that go behind that um or come
from, that is very key um at the state level. Um So what does that look
like? Um That is um reducing TF benefits from 24 months to 12 months. TF
is public assistance um that is um not requiring everyone that has a snap
card, food stamp card um to have their photo ID on it. Um
That is um understanding the importance of a livable wage. Um that is
understanding that to really increase economic development in a community
, people need a good transportation system, a good reliable transportation
system. Um Those are just some big policy things but the,
but it all starts with a philosophy shift
and the philosophy shift is, and uh to say paradigm shift is, is really,
it's a philosophy and I think it's almost, it's deliberate. Um
If you, if you believe that the best way to prevent something is to scare
the heck out of people,
um that will have some impact but it doesn't solve it. Um Fear
it, it can only be so much of a deterrent. Um You can only build, you know
, you can always build a bigger wall, you can always arm yourself more,
you can always isolate yourself just a little bit more. Um uh
and that doesn't work, it doesn't solve anything. You just, you're just
pushing it to the side. Um And so if you make it so unappealing to be poor
um through guilt and shame and victimization and to make, to make being
poor, like the worst thing you could possibly imagine ever doing. Because
my gosh, you would be the, you know, you would be the laughing stock of
your community of your family and why would you do that to yourself? Oh my
gosh. Um A lot of those policies reinforce that the existing policies. Um
But that doesn't change anything. And what happens? I think that the
challenges and this goes back to one of the very first questions is
when you asked, why do I share this story? My story because if you think
that it can never happen to you, it's easy to point fingers and to make
the other and all those different things. Um And where you see
bipartisanship, where you see people coming across the aisle um is when
there's things that impact us all and all of a sudden it is a public good.
Um So you can see, yeah,
everyone has a veteran in the family. They know a veteran, veteran issues
are very popular.
Um They're not, not, nothing's perfect but there's attention to it and
then there's a level of priority to it and urgency behind it good. And it
should be I get that um not everyone has a poor person in their family
that they know of or they want to talk about um to use a parallel with the
gay marriage argument is that once it was seen, once you created an
environment where it was safer and comfortable to come out and talk about
the issue of what is to be gay and lesbian, questioning, transvestite. Um
Then you could actually talk about what it means to be a human. And live
in that world and the issues of love and equity and even equity, it was
like, it's funny because it started off being, like, equity and not
everyone really understood what equity meant. And so they gave the
tangible example of love and like, oh, love. Ok. Yeah, I love people, you
know, I mean, you know, it's ok. I, I can understand that, um, when things
started to shift,
um, and there's change, I think when it comes to poverty and food
insecurity is that people don't think the r are gonna be hungry, they
certainly never think they're gonna be starving. And so changing the
conversation, seeing how it could impact them, seeing how it could impact
their community. Um, and I'm sorry, but when you have one in four Children
, one in five adults and one in seven seniors in Arizona that are facing
food insecurity, it's happened to people that they know they're just not
talking about it. Um, because they're ashamed of themselves and they're
afraid that, you know, um, they're afraid that you're gonna judge them. Um
, and so don't talk about it, you know. Yeah. How do you start this
conversation? So,
1 to 1 around the dinner table, you have to practice what you, what you
preach. Um, the challenge is, is that where the root of the answer to your
question is,
it's very difficult because how we communicate has been different is
changing and it's so much easier to find an echo chamber to isolate
yourself. Um And to just find the people that agree with you um modern
technology and just preference has make it so easy to find people that
only agree to you. Um Imagine a social media platform that had an
algorithm that instead just gave you more if you wanted to see flipped it.
So it, everything that you wanted to see it gave you the opposite,
your whole world would change real quick or you just stop using that
social media platform because it's yucky. Um It's not what you wanted. Um
that plays out in the public space very quickly. Um It plays out in the
neighborhoods we decided to live in, it plays out in the conversations we
have with our family members, all those different things. It um so it's
gonna take some courage on ourselves to actually have those conversations
with other people who don't agree with you. That's hard. That's probably
the hardest thing. Um You know, I mean, it's hard enough to make friends.
Now. You want me to make friends with people that don't agree with me. Oh
my gosh. But you know what we all eat. Um uh There is, I've had incredible
conversations with people that I politically vehemently disagree with. Um
God, we've had great meals and we've had some, I threw that meal in the
shared space with that shared meal. I've been able to at least
understand where they're coming from. I mean, I'd agree with it. I will do
my best to convince them otherwise. You know, they will do the same with
me. But gosh, at least we're having the conversation
finding those times. My bias is with food because again, we all gotta eat.
That's the opportunity. But it's the challenge. And if you don't, if you
don't take the time to cook, if you don't take the time to share a meal
with your own family, you're definitely not going to do it with somebody
you don't agree with. Um And that's what's so unique about. Um And I think
that there's, um this is a little bit of my English literature background
coming in the best stories are the ones with conflict. There's some
conflict that brings people together over something, something's happening
that wasn't planned and brings people together. That's why you have so
many uh movies that revolve around marriages and deaths and, you know, uh
something like that, it's
how can you utilize even existing opportunities. Um In the Jewish
tradition, there is um the, you know, the, the cedar table and um over
Passover and it's encouraged and it's a Mitzvah to bring in people that
aren't Jewish into your house and share a meal with them. And this year
the Passover story. Um and through that action in my family, I have had
incredible conversations with Christians about religion, which is not
another easy topic to do that people have a lot of passion and beliefs
behind and we've had amazing conversations and disagreements, but we did
it over a meal and it was ok and we spent hours with each other and we're
friends. That's good. Now, we can continue to have conversation about
other things because we at least you done that. That is, I think is how
you start. So, my final question, um, can you share your fondest food
memory?
I have a lot of fond food memories. Um Yeah. Um and uh it is I, and it's
funny because my icebreaker for community conversations is, is actually
that exact question, which is funny. Um So I've had a chance to think
about it and to share a number of memories. Um
hm. So sure too. Um One I was already thinking about when I was talking
about my mom. Um excuse me, there is my mom was a military brat but raised
in Georgia and um so she loved to cook Southern fried chicken and biscuits
, uh homemade biscuits uh uh scratch uh drop biscuits specifically. And I
have multiple, I'm, I'm thinking about three or four dozen or so times in
my life, but specifically I'm thinking about the smells and the sounds and
the tastes that from those specific meals of
mom, getting out the big cast iron frying pan, mom getting the oil out,
she's got the chicken, she's got the brown paper bag with the flour and
the Lowry seasoning salt and her shaking the bag, um, that sound of the
first drop of fried, deep fried food and this, this, the explosion of
grease and, um, sounds sometimes they like, ah, you know, it, it's
flattering up on her and it's kind, even though it happened dozen, dozen
of times, it's always gonna be that one little spark that get lands in
your arm and hurt burns you. Um, the smell of the, I mean, even salivating
and thinking about it, it is the of the smell of fried chicken, of the
salt and the, the, the baked bread and in the house. And really that was
just, that was the meal. It was that and we would, I even, I remember the
plates and we would just talk and that would be like an afternoon
experience. It wouldn't just be like an hour experience. Be an afternoon.
Incredible memories. And that's how I, I remember and think of my mom.
Second amazing meal was the one with my wife Emma. And we were in Siena
Italy and we, um we just got engaged and we had an engagement trip. Um If
you really want to help secure the deal with marriage, do it right before
you go to a two week trip to Italy. I just saying just that's gonna grease
you out. Um, but the, um, the um we were
in a ravine um in the shadow of the city hall in Siena Italy. Um and we
were in this farm that was actually a, um, a rehab uh place for uh
individuals that were, um, coming out of either prison or some kind of
like drug or addiction issues. And what they did was they actually had the
, the dozer coming out work, the farm, raise the animals, grow the food
and there was a restaurant there and they produced the food, they packaged
the food, they processed the food, they then cook the food. They then sold
the food in this restaurant. And to have for them,
the production, the growth, the cooking, the serving of the food was done
with such an uh an aspect of pride and love and trust because this was not
just a meal. This is them demonstrating
an aspiration
through food and this is them proving themselves and that intense form of
emotion behind and care behind that meal produced the most amazing product
that II I can. Everything from uh lima beans that were grown right over
there that were harvested, warmed from the sun and is literally plucked,
washed on the table. Um And the creaminess of the beans and the goat
cheese from those goats right over there that you could hear in the
background that were made and the bread that was baked and the pasta and
tomato sauce from, you know, um I think that they didn't grow the wheat.
So they, they, they, that was the one thing that was brought in. But from
the tomato vines that are right over there. And to see part of the
presentation is that they would bring forth representatives or people that
help prepare your meal, grow your meal and they would, they would
introduce the meal to you. And to say this is, this is what you're eating
and just the, the s the seriousness and the pride that they had in, in
talking about this food. You're, you're just, you're not having a meal,
you're just, you, you are, you are digesting with your soul and your
stomach.
What they wanna be, the change that they wanna be? Um That's incredible. I
mean, that's, it's not, yeah. Uh but it was through a meal, we heard their
stories through this meal. Um We saw the change they wanted to be through
this meal. Um That's amazing and that's the kind of stuff that and that is
when I see the transformative power of food, the transformative power of
sharing a dinner, sharing a meal together. Um That's the kind of
opportunity you have. Last question. Just one more. Why do you do what you
do the job you do
have to um
it goes back to um my, my faith, it goes back to um my, that, that saying
of Tikaram which is to repair the world and to pair the world is not from
a sense of, of a top down approach to where you, you have to, you, it's
like, you know, from a position of privilege. It's just knowing that
we're on this world and there's people in this world and there's gonna be
times when this world is not at its good point and the people are not
going to be at a good point and it's more a stewardship and obligation. Um
, you didn't just pop on here out of accident. Um
There was a series of things that happened, um, for you to be here to you
, for you to exist and it's not just what happened with you, but it's your
entire history of what was, what is and what will be and if we all just
take a little bit of time and to help repair the world in our own way, um
This will make it better for when we're gone. Um So that's kind of the
overarching philosophy
two, then I can have a second reason is
I, I have to do it because I benefited from it. Um God, I, I wanna be the
Christine Walt Hopkins who took the time to care for a student. Um uh I
wanna be that social worker that helped, you know, at that office, you
know, that one day I wanna be the the counselor um who um took the time to
reach out and say, are you OK? Um It is those
since I benefited from it, I have the obligation
um And I have to, to do it for others because if I don't,
by failing to do that.
I'm not only disrespecting what they did for me, I'm cheapening their
service. Um,
and it's, it's, it's not selfishness is not the word for it. It's just,
it's, it's just disingenuous and it's fraudulent and it's a crime, um, at
the most heinous level. Um, and I just, I just can't do that. I can't live
with myself that way and I guess the third thing is just fun. It really is.
I love this stuff and it's working with people is,
it's fun. It's, it's such a joy to be able to do this. Um, it's
frustrating and it's not easy, but that's the fun part for me. Um, and
it's complicated and it's weird and, you know, because people are weird
and they're complicated and they're awesome and, but it's, that is, um,
yeah, that's a joy in it. What's the most rewarding part of your job?
The,
it's, it's making a difference but it's helping people.
Yeah. Thank you very much.