WEBVTT 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:03.305 Gonna be used, 00:00:03.338 --> 00:00:09.097 Mrs John England. I'm here with, go ahead and say your name Cindy Gentry. 00:00:09.130 --> 00:00:14.245 And today's date is July 17th, 00:00:14.278 --> 00:00:22.278 19th July 19th, 2016. And we're here in uh downtown Phoenix uh discussing 00:00:22.530 --> 00:00:27.355 the uh dinner 2040 project. Uh So, Cindy, if you could tell me a little 00:00:27.388 --> 00:00:33.057 bit about um your early years where you were born and, and when, if you 00:00:33.090 --> 00:00:40.496 feel comfortable with that, oh, I was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1951 00:00:40.529 --> 00:00:47.987 and grew up in and around the city in the northern suburbs of Skokie. And 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:53.326 when I was a sophomore in high school, my parents moved to Glencoe. 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:59.445 Yeah, I went down state to school to Champaign Havana. Oh, ok, great. Um 00:00:59.478 --> 00:01:05.876 Tell me a little bit about your, your schooling and education. Um 00:01:05.909 --> 00:01:13.467 I came of a, I was 12 when the civil rights movement happened and um we 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:21.500 lived in kind of a, um, a ghetto about 40% of the people that um came from 00:01:22.189 --> 00:01:30.189 um Germany and Eastern Europe that survived the camps, um came to Skokie 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:38.540 and yet it was still, um, mostly Jewish enclave. And so when the first um 00:01:39.219 --> 00:01:44.076 African American families moved in, everybody was up in arms. And so I 00:01:44.109 --> 00:01:52.109 remember um the, the shift in the community and uh my parents going to 00:01:53.129 --> 00:01:58.686 welcome uh a couple of these families, but unfortunately, some of their 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:02.686 neighbors had thrown rocks through their windows and done some other 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:08.346 unwelcoming things. And so there was that kind of pretty normal middle 00:02:08.379 --> 00:02:16.379 class life and then um the chance to really start looking at um injustice 00:02:17.229 --> 00:02:21.427 and inequity in that way. 00:02:21.460 --> 00:02:28.555 So you had sort of a, a civil or, or so your education, a lot of it took 00:02:28.588 --> 00:02:33.737 place outside of the school atmosphere is, well, some of the more 00:02:33.770 --> 00:02:38.066 memorable I had to go to school and um I had younger brothers and we all 00:02:38.099 --> 00:02:41.896 had to do all the things that you're supposed to. My parents were active 00:02:41.929 --> 00:02:48.136 in the um PT A and volunteered in the community and um did homework and I 00:02:48.169 --> 00:02:55.906 was the only, although oldest um girl and my brothers were smarter than me 00:02:55.939 --> 00:03:01.346 and skipped in the grades and stuff and were good in math. Um I was not, I 00:03:01.379 --> 00:03:08.166 was good in reading and um the soft sciences, right? Ok. Um What about uh 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:12.797 your um your college education? Uh Maybe you could talk a little bit about 00:03:12.830 --> 00:03:19.406 that. What, what your college years were like? Um Again, I got, I went 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:25.495 downstate to the University of Illinois right about the time that the 00:03:25.528 --> 00:03:33.406 Vietnam War was heating up um in this case, my, my, um, education was a 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:41.439 lot more out of the classroom than in, than in it. And I spent, um, it, it 00:03:42.569 --> 00:03:48.916 was in an engineering school. There was a lot of scientific stuff going on. 00:03:48.949 --> 00:03:55.856 There was a lot of war machine stuff going on and, um, the chance to, um 00:03:55.889 --> 00:04:00.047 understand that the next generation of people didn't really want to carry 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:05.005 that on and let our voices be heard. So I spent um 17 years getting my 00:04:05.038 --> 00:04:11.356 bachelor's degree in sociology and my, I find I stopped and um finally 00:04:11.389 --> 00:04:18.786 finished up here at a su OK. So, so you were involved in a lot of uh uh 00:04:18.819 --> 00:04:23.937 you were involved politically in, in the community? Wow, that's exciting. 00:04:23.970 --> 00:04:28.296 Um So where does, where do you think food plays into that? Maybe you could 00:04:28.329 --> 00:04:35.796 talk about um one or some of your f your most fond food memories? 00:04:35.829 --> 00:04:39.096 Um 00:04:39.129 --> 00:04:44.825 I came from a loud, noisy Jewish family and food was the center of 00:04:44.858 --> 00:04:52.858 everything. And that's how the dinners, the, the art, the exchanges of 00:04:54.319 --> 00:05:00.387 ideas, the hearing of politics, the friendly and unfriendly arguments, the 00:05:00.420 --> 00:05:06.895 really bad jokes, everything kind of centered around um 00:05:06.928 --> 00:05:13.356 normal dinner and then celebration dinners and um food was a big part of 00:05:13.389 --> 00:05:19.416 how we knew who we were. Ok. So did you have a lot of family like beyond 00:05:19.449 --> 00:05:23.796 just your immediate family, like cousins, aunts and uncles? And yeah, 00:05:23.829 --> 00:05:28.127 nobody was really scattered in those days. And these days everybody is an 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:35.717 airplane rider too away. But, um, my dad, um, friends that he hung out 00:05:35.750 --> 00:05:41.887 with were from the neighborhood where he grew up and my, he had a pretty 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:47.075 good extended family and my mom had, um, she's a little more independent 00:05:47.108 --> 00:05:54.697 but she was still kind of not very far away from her, um, parents and, and 00:05:54.730 --> 00:06:00.236 so we grew up with cousins and aunts and uncles and it's different today, 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:07.336 I think. Yeah. Yeah, great. So, so during these formative years, um and 00:06:07.369 --> 00:06:10.817 while you're getting your education, were you involved in any sustainable 00:06:10.850 --> 00:06:16.947 organization or anything to do with the environment? 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:21.995 Hm. I don't think so. I think it had more to do with social justice. I 00:06:22.028 --> 00:06:27.817 think we were shown and taught and a, and asked to volunteer uh to help 00:06:27.850 --> 00:06:35.776 people who had less um access to what they needed than we did. Um You know 00:06:35.809 --> 00:06:41.937 , I lived in the city and then I lived in a suburb where my dad gardened. 00:06:41.970 --> 00:06:45.106 Um, 00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:49.976 but it was, and then, you know, it wasn't really about the environment at 00:06:50.009 --> 00:06:54.637 that time or s or knowing where your food came from, at least in our 00:06:54.670 --> 00:06:59.236 household, I became a vegetarian when I was about 15 and shocked the heck 00:06:59.269 --> 00:07:05.697 out of everybody. And um and at that time, joined food first, which was 00:07:05.730 --> 00:07:09.437 just coming into being and um I don't know if you've ever heard of Frances 00:07:09.470 --> 00:07:15.906 Mo Lape? Now, her daughter Anna has taken over. Um, but at that time, they 00:07:15.939 --> 00:07:22.137 were starting to talk about, um, eating lower on the food chain so that 00:07:22.170 --> 00:07:27.726 people could, uh, more people could get what they needed and learn that 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:31.596 you could get. Just, no, my parents didn't believe this, but you could get 00:07:31.629 --> 00:07:36.356 just as much protein from eating rice and beans and cheese as you could 00:07:36.389 --> 00:07:39.197 from, um, 00:07:39.230 --> 00:07:43.377 from me, my father was first generation American. And so the thing that 00:07:43.410 --> 00:07:48.336 you wanted to make sure as a good provider was that you had meat on the 00:07:48.369 --> 00:07:55.387 table and potatoes and all that and vegetable. But then not too long after 00:07:55.420 --> 00:08:02.286 that, it became clear that we were consuming a lot of resources. Um And by 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:10.319 having that model, ok, so, um, maybe talk a little bit more about why and 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:18.959 you, you made the switch to vegetarianism. Um What, what prompted that? Um 00:08:19.329 --> 00:08:25.356 I got a hold of some reading material and it was probably not food first, 00:08:25.389 --> 00:08:29.616 but it could have been Mother Earth News. It could have been anything, it 00:08:29.649 --> 00:08:34.476 could have been a recipe book, um, died for a small plane. It was big then. 00:08:34.509 --> 00:08:41.316 And um, it was sort of like, wow. And I really didn't care for big heavy 00:08:41.349 --> 00:08:46.936 meat meals or anything. I mean, I liked it but it was just easy. Um, 00:08:46.969 --> 00:08:52.986 nobody else followed suit and I was the cook in the house. Um And so I 00:08:53.019 --> 00:08:58.125 still cook whatever, everybody else like to eat. But, um, I didn't eat the 00:08:58.158 --> 00:09:06.158 meat part. Ok. Uh, was that more of a, a dietary choice or was it, uh, 00:09:06.859 --> 00:09:11.726 sort of a social justice choice or? Yeah, it had to do with understanding 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:19.625 that. Um, there are way too many people, um, starving and we were 00:09:19.658 --> 00:09:24.746 consuming in our country way more than our share of the natural resources 00:09:24.779 --> 00:09:32.557 available. And part of that had to do with what it took to um produce meat. 00:09:32.590 --> 00:09:39.096 Um And it seemed like maybe we could do more with less. Ok. Is that sort 00:09:39.129 --> 00:09:42.907 of what started you on the path towards becoming interested in food 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:50.167 sustainability or sustainable food systems? No, I think just noticing from 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:57.895 being a, a little kid that some people um I lived pretty rough and just 00:09:57.928 --> 00:10:05.928 understanding that it was um important to try to figure out how to change 00:10:07.178 --> 00:10:13.226 that. Ok, great. So you're very cognizant at a young age of social welfare 00:10:13.259 --> 00:10:19.775 welfare. That's great. Um So, so what did uh what was the catalyst that 00:10:19.808 --> 00:10:25.596 got you interested in in sustainable food systems? 00:10:25.629 --> 00:10:28.385 Um 00:10:28.418 --> 00:10:36.418 When I was, I already had moved out here and I was trying to find a job in 00:10:36.418 --> 00:10:42.505 sustainable food systems. And the only job I could find was with the Food 00:10:42.538 --> 00:10:48.606 Bank Association. Um and it turned out to be a wonderful thing to have 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:56.375 happened, but um there wasn't a ASU school of sustainability, there wasn't 00:10:56.408 --> 00:11:01.145 um a chapter of food first here, there wasn't local. First, there wasn't 00:11:01.178 --> 00:11:08.606 anything, um, that I could find and I looked pretty hard. Um, there 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:15.125 weren't even farmers markets in 1977 7884 00:11:15.158 --> 00:11:20.967 and I graduated in a su in 86. And so I guess, um, there weren't even 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:27.385 farmers markets here. And so the idea of, um, well, what could I do to 00:11:27.418 --> 00:11:30.927 begin to help? Um, 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.446 mm, a people who needed to access food do that better. So I was lucky, I 00:11:35.479 --> 00:11:40.657 got a good job with um the Association of Arizona Food Banks. But I came 00:11:40.690 --> 00:11:47.436 in there. Um um The director is still a dear friend and was my mentor and 00:11:47.469 --> 00:11:52.297 some as were some of the other people there. Um But I came in there with 00:11:52.330 --> 00:11:57.686 the idea of, oh, we're doing heroic efforts 00:11:57.719 --> 00:12:05.206 to get people through the next 3 to 5 days. But where's the space for what 00:12:05.239 --> 00:12:13.239 got them in that fix in the, in the beginning? And um some of the food 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:18.265 banks were more open to addressing that than others. There's a great model 00:12:18.298 --> 00:12:24.106 um in Tucson Community Food Bank of Southern Arizona that um in addition 00:12:24.139 --> 00:12:26.917 to their emergency 00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:30.726 network, they call it, it's a line from Feeding America, which is a 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:35.307 National Food Relief Organization. It's called Feed the Line and Shorten 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:42.206 the line. And so they're working very strongly on shorten the line. Um And 00:12:42.239 --> 00:12:48.576 then somewhere in there, my job turned to get out into um, with the 00:12:48.609 --> 00:12:52.866 statewide cleaning project to go out into the fields and help recover what 00:12:52.899 --> 00:12:57.946 would have been disked under or just thrown away or go to the coolers down 00:12:57.979 --> 00:13:04.255 in Casa Grande. Eloy Nogales ya, all that and help, um, that project 00:13:04.288 --> 00:13:10.427 rescue food and get it on the tables with hungry people. 00:13:10.460 --> 00:13:15.066 And one morning just about first light, I was standing out in the West 00:13:15.099 --> 00:13:20.096 Valley talking to a guy and I, oh thank you for, for your donation and he 00:13:20.129 --> 00:13:24.375 plants extra to feed the food banks. He don't thank me. I'm not making 00:13:24.408 --> 00:13:29.446 enough to take the tax credit. And I'm just thinking, all right, there's 00:13:29.479 --> 00:13:37.057 all this food out here. There are all these people hungry 00:13:37.090 --> 00:13:42.047 and that guy's not even making a living farming. He is now. But um the 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:47.446 idea is that it is less about lack of food than it is about um 00:13:47.479 --> 00:13:54.275 distribution and access. And the light will just switched on like that if 00:13:54.308 --> 00:13:58.246 the producers aren't making a living and there's all this food and we 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:03.645 can't get it to where it needs to get to. Um we need to do some shifts. 00:14:03.678 --> 00:14:08.696 And so I um spent a couple more years doing that pro program and then 00:14:08.729 --> 00:14:15.336 started my own organization called Community Food Connections. And um the 00:14:15.369 --> 00:14:23.369 idea was to and still is to increase um food access for vulnerable 00:14:23.479 --> 00:14:28.066 Children and adults at the same time as building economic and community 00:14:28.099 --> 00:14:34.846 development for um everybody including keeping farmers on the land. Oh, 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:41.226 wow, that's great. Uh That's um So you mentioned that when you came here, 00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:46.346 there were no farmers markets. Um Maybe you could talk a little bit about 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:53.486 that. Um Were you involved in farmers' markets before you came here to 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:58.956 Arizona? Um No, but I had seen them around the country. I had a good 00:14:58.989 --> 00:15:04.316 privilege of traveling to California, to the northwest, to the east coast 00:15:04.349 --> 00:15:12.349 and I had seen them and let's see, 1991 I think the first market started 00:15:12.469 --> 00:15:18.547 here. D Logan started the first market um with her husband. Um and I think 00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:25.976 it was at Heritage Square. Um And shortly thereafter, Roadrunner at 36th 00:15:26.009 --> 00:15:32.496 Street in Cactus and then Mesa, so she's been doing it for a long time. Um 00:15:32.529 --> 00:15:35.927 But before that, 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:41.547 I didn't find any, I didn't know about it. I like markets. My, my 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:45.217 grandfather um 00:15:45.250 --> 00:15:50.807 didn't finish seventh grade. He came to this country baby. He had to stop 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:56.086 it when he was 12 and help support his family. And I was at some point 00:15:56.119 --> 00:16:02.236 rebellious and thinking of um dropping out of high school and he took me 00:16:02.269 --> 00:16:07.586 in his Cadillac um down to the Maxwell Street market which is on the west 00:16:07.619 --> 00:16:12.895 side of Chicago. And it's this wholesale market. Half the mob has families 00:16:12.928 --> 00:16:16.566 there. It was quite a colorful place. And he said, if you don't finish 00:16:16.599 --> 00:16:21.427 high school, you're gonna end up down here and the irony was that, you 00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:27.196 know, how many years later, 3525 00:16:27.229 --> 00:16:31.875 years later, I did end up starting a market and getting involved in 00:16:31.908 --> 00:16:36.196 supporting the whole market system in our state with some, uh, federal 00:16:36.229 --> 00:16:42.005 programs. And so, um, he was gone by then. He, he died when I was 18, but 00:16:42.038 --> 00:16:47.336 it was, it has not stopped me chuckling from time to time. Yeah, that's a 00:16:47.369 --> 00:16:52.145 great story. Um, So maybe you could talk a little bit about starting the, 00:16:52.178 --> 00:16:57.566 was it the community Food connections? Um How did that come about? Well, 00:16:57.599 --> 00:17:03.866 it had to do with talking to that grower and just saying, OK, the Food 00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:11.256 Bank Network is heroic. The greening project is um doing some amazing 00:17:11.289 --> 00:17:17.085 things. But I really, by that time, the Community Food Security Coalition 00:17:17.118 --> 00:17:23.835 had come about in 1996 and I was part of that. 00:17:23.868 --> 00:17:31.868 Yeah. Um and I was just getting an itch to go focus on um some other 00:17:32.269 --> 00:17:39.906 aspects of food access. And um in 2002, I retired from the Food Bank 00:17:39.939 --> 00:17:44.597 Association and started um that organization. 00:17:44.630 --> 00:17:52.630 Um and, and we focused on um a Food Policy Council. I had contracts from 00:17:52.858 --> 00:17:57.746 different and farm to school. I had contracts from different friends um 00:17:57.779 --> 00:18:04.285 here in New Mexico and nationally that kept me afloat until we got the 00:18:04.318 --> 00:18:12.318 proper paperwork um in place the 501 C three and then um 00:18:12.729 --> 00:18:18.045 brought in with friends programs like the Farmers Market Nutrition Program 00:18:18.078 --> 00:18:22.607 and snap at the market's food stamps is what it was called and got some 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.406 equipment going for them. And, uh, so that different markets around the 00:18:26.439 --> 00:18:32.075 state could begin to process food stamps. And, um, a federal program 00:18:32.108 --> 00:18:36.805 called Farmers Market Nutrition Program, which is for low income moms and 00:18:36.838 --> 00:18:42.986 kids on work and for seniors, um, we got, we got the first part of that 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:51.019 going, a bunch of us and um then got the idea that um I should start a 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:59.759 public market as kind of a central place for um not only the market, 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.545 you know, like building it up to be a seven day week market. Have it be 00:19:07.578 --> 00:19:13.325 like a have storage and be like a food hub where food could be aggregated 00:19:13.358 --> 00:19:18.706 food could be distributed. It would be a place for local food and we were 00:19:18.739 --> 00:19:24.717 on our way to that and I ran into um when you're a nonprofit who's really 00:19:24.750 --> 00:19:31.026 in charge is the board of directors and we had a differing opinion in 2012 00:19:31.059 --> 00:19:36.795 and when went our different ways. Um But the downtown Phoenix public 00:19:36.828 --> 00:19:44.456 market is um part of is what, where that started. And it was meant to 00:19:44.489 --> 00:19:51.936 expand into a community kitchen and to have um you know, pick up spaces 00:19:51.969 --> 00:19:58.196 for schools and chefs do come there now. Um Still, but it was meant to be 00:19:58.229 --> 00:20:02.996 a lot more organized around being a hub for local food. 00:20:03.029 --> 00:20:07.436 Wow. So, uh, you mentioned a little bit of opposition, what, what kind of 00:20:07.469 --> 00:20:11.706 opposition? Um, or maybe you could just talk about the kinds of opposition 00:20:11.739 --> 00:20:15.967 that, that you've encountered in, in setting up these organizations. 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:24.000 Well, oh, my brother, um, is an anthropologist and he decided to go off on 00:20:24.189 --> 00:20:28.397 his own somewhere back, um, 00:20:28.430 --> 00:20:34.857 in the early two thousands. And he set up an LLC and I said, why, why 00:20:34.890 --> 00:20:38.545 didn't you make it a nonprofit? Because then you can write for grants and 00:20:38.578 --> 00:20:45.387 do all that. And he said, because, um, I want to 00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:50.656 do what I want to do and I don't want to have to worry about a board 00:20:50.689 --> 00:20:57.847 trying to direct me or govern me. And I said, oh, that'll never happen. 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.526 I've worked for nonprofits for my whole, um, you know, most of my adult 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:07.805 career. And, um, and so of another buddy of mine said, well, just pick who 00:21:07.838 --> 00:21:13.236 you want, who you, who you trust with your life to be on your board. And I 00:21:13.269 --> 00:21:16.926 said, ok, that makes sense. And that, but those people got tired after a 00:21:16.959 --> 00:21:22.305 few years or they moved away or something and then other people came in 00:21:22.338 --> 00:21:27.516 and, um, they had different idea of community service. They had a 00:21:27.549 --> 00:21:32.565 different, they were called, uh, got burned out. Some of them thought, um 00:21:32.598 --> 00:21:36.367 , like there was a little power thing, like they thought I was trying to, 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:44.137 um, do things for my own behalf where I wasn't, I was just trying to share 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:50.377 my experience. Um And so there that that can happen, money troubles can 00:21:50.410 --> 00:21:53.746 happen. Um 00:21:53.779 --> 00:21:58.847 And at the end of the day, 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:05.147 they said, well, it's gonna be this way or no way and I didn't pop them in 00:22:05.180 --> 00:22:10.436 the nose as I should have done or fire them or whatever. Um, there were 00:22:10.469 --> 00:22:15.656 only a few left by that time and so that organization and I were, was not 00:22:15.689 --> 00:22:23.545 strong enough to, to, um, move on forward. Right. Um And then you're 00:22:23.578 --> 00:22:30.117 making healthy food more accessible to lower income families, like 00:22:30.150 --> 00:22:34.736 incorporating the snaps into farmers markets and that sort of thing. Did 00:22:34.769 --> 00:22:41.246 you encounter any opposition with that? No. Um, is, you know, at the same 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:48.035 time that you're bringing access to people, you're bringing income to 00:22:48.068 --> 00:22:53.006 growers. You know, at first I'd hear these little comments from the 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.967 farmers and they'd be like, oh, they drive a better car than I do and all 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:02.045 this kind of thing. And I, all right, maybe they have that car today, 00:23:02.078 --> 00:23:06.367 maybe it's not even theirs, maybe they borrowed it. And next time you see 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:10.656 them, they might not have it. And then they started thinking about um, 00:23:10.689 --> 00:23:15.206 their sister-in-law who was on wick or their other family circumstances 00:23:15.239 --> 00:23:20.256 that might have led somebody to be compromised in a little way. And pretty 00:23:20.289 --> 00:23:25.065 soon it was like, the most annoying thing was, well, people forget there's 00:23:25.098 --> 00:23:30.347 a certain, for part of the program of Farmers Market Nutrition program. 00:23:30.380 --> 00:23:34.597 There's a window from March to the end of October and a lot of people 00:23:34.630 --> 00:23:39.867 just swamp at the end of October and our produce season is kind of lean at 00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:47.545 that time here in the valley. Um So they would gripe about that. But um at 00:23:47.578 --> 00:23:51.857 the end of the day, it became like a li for me, it's like a little social 00:23:51.890 --> 00:23:56.986 experiment. Markets can help bring people together who not normally 00:23:57.019 --> 00:24:02.916 wouldn't be in the same place. Excellent. So, um so that leads into 00:24:02.949 --> 00:24:09.236 another question which is how do you build bridges um between other 00:24:09.269 --> 00:24:14.196 activists and organizations uh with the goal of, of making food more 00:24:14.229 --> 00:24:17.916 accessible. 00:24:17.949 --> 00:24:22.256 Um 00:24:22.289 --> 00:24:27.805 I think that's the crux of the matter. How do you make it normal for 00:24:27.838 --> 00:24:34.196 people to come and use their food benefits at markets and have access? Do 00:24:34.229 --> 00:24:39.065 you bring the food to the neighborhoods? Do you make transportation 00:24:39.098 --> 00:24:47.098 arrangements? But you have to um find people in the neighborhood that 00:24:47.769 --> 00:24:53.456 people, other people look up to that are willing to um kind of lead the 00:24:53.489 --> 00:24:57.996 charge. And it's like, well, if Grandma Nelson says this, then we're gonna 00:24:58.029 --> 00:25:06.029 do it um because it isn't normal right now, people were using um bribery 00:25:07.709 --> 00:25:14.387 um incentive items. If you use your E BT, they call it or um the Farmers 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:18.916 Market Nutrition Program coupons, you'll get a gift at certain markets um 00:25:18.949 --> 00:25:25.706 which this office now provides um the, a nonprofit here called Pinnacle 00:25:25.739 --> 00:25:31.055 Prevention. Just got a federal grant. Um, it's called Food and Security 00:25:31.088 --> 00:25:39.088 Nutrition Incentive Program. And it will match, um, up to $10 00:25:39.130 --> 00:25:46.967 A S A purchase with somebody using their snap card at specific markets and 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:53.666 C SAS. It's just starting, there's funding for some of it in, uh Tucson 00:25:53.699 --> 00:25:57.597 right now through a different source. And the International Rescue 00:25:57.630 --> 00:26:02.696 Committee has the market that I work with. Um that already has matching 00:26:02.729 --> 00:26:07.065 dollars through the same federal grant. So we're trying to um in other 00:26:07.098 --> 00:26:11.565 parts of the country, it's been wildly successful. Um And I saw it this 00:26:11.598 --> 00:26:19.598 morning, I was at the market. Um You use um $10.00 of s of Snapper or FMNP 00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:29.055 and you get $10 of food free. So you stretch your food dollars enormously. 00:26:29.088 --> 00:26:36.696 So not to skirt the question. It's really tricky and it's really slow and 00:26:36.729 --> 00:26:43.397 you have to go where people are and they have to come to trust you. I do 00:26:43.430 --> 00:26:48.956 two markets. I work with two groups that do markets in uh at w offices in 00:26:48.989 --> 00:26:55.835 low income neighborhoods and it takes a minimum of a year for, for people 00:26:55.868 --> 00:27:02.847 to catch on. Um And just think you're not trying to give them that produce. 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.585 So you're not trying to the pri you know, there's still this, the prices 00:27:06.618 --> 00:27:14.006 are too high at farmers markets. Um It's only for white, middle class. She 00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:22.039 people, whatever. Um So there's a lot of perceptions to overcome and, 00:27:23.199 --> 00:27:27.436 you know, the verdict is still kind of out for me about whether, like I'd 00:27:27.469 --> 00:27:34.785 like to try um a mobile market, like Fresh Express but just do local food 00:27:34.818 --> 00:27:42.818 on it and see if um that if people would respond to it. Um But I'm not 00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:49.916 sure if they will. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, some, some good ideas. 00:27:49.949 --> 00:27:57.949 Um What about, uh, have you tried to incorporate um different or, or, or 00:27:59.259 --> 00:28:04.357 rather are there other agencies that are more localized here, sort of 00:28:04.390 --> 00:28:10.186 organizations or groups that you've tried to incorporate into, into making 00:28:10.219 --> 00:28:16.706 food more accessible? Um I personally work with three right now at the, at 00:28:16.739 --> 00:28:20.436 the various markets and then they work with and they work with and expands 00:28:20.469 --> 00:28:27.526 out, expands out. Um And I think that having them involved helps you need 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.986 to have people that look like you. If you're in a Spanish speaking 00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:36.565 neighborhood, you need to be able to speak to the people. Um People need 00:28:36.598 --> 00:28:44.097 to feel comfortable. Great. Um So this is a very broad question, you can 00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:48.357 answer it however you want. But how do you think this is important for the 00:28:48.390 --> 00:28:52.776 future of food? 00:28:52.809 --> 00:28:59.656 I think that um 00:28:59.689 --> 00:29:07.206 everybody deserves to have access to healthy food and everybody want most 00:29:07.239 --> 00:29:14.065 people want to eat healthy and provide healthy food for their Children. Um 00:29:14.098 --> 00:29:18.986 I've heard older ladies like look at the market table and oh, where's the 00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:22.397 meat? And potatoes. I'll come back when, you know, and it's supposed to be 00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:25.236 a giggle. They're just come out and they've had their blood pressure, you 00:29:25.269 --> 00:29:33.269 know. So, but I, but I, I think that, um, it has to become normal and 00:29:34.660 --> 00:29:39.065 available so that people can change their habits. Everybody didn't always 00:29:39.098 --> 00:29:45.377 drink Pepsi Cola, everybody didn't always, um, go to Starbucks for 00:29:45.410 --> 00:29:52.976 goodness sake. And it's sort of, some kind of, you can't avoid it. It's 00:29:53.009 --> 00:29:58.456 everywhere. It's in the convenience stores, it's in the liquor stores, 00:29:58.489 --> 00:30:03.397 whatever. That's where some people buy their food in some areas. Um, and 00:30:03.430 --> 00:30:11.430 buy food. We're talking loosely here. But, um, um, slim Jims and whatever. 00:30:12.108 --> 00:30:17.906 But, but it's got, there's gotta be AAA shift where people taste, they 00:30:17.939 --> 00:30:25.939 remember, um, they know how to basically cook. I was making up printing 00:30:26.068 --> 00:30:32.377 out recipes when you came. What do you do with this stuff? Um, oh, I can 00:30:32.410 --> 00:30:37.217 do that. It's easy. Um, 00:30:37.250 --> 00:30:44.637 and I think that if we want people making healthy food choices, there's 00:30:44.670 --> 00:30:48.986 AAA crazy, 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:56.335 about 68% of our population here in Arizona is overweight and some minor, 00:30:56.368 --> 00:31:01.825 you know, smaller but not much smaller portion of that wanders into the 00:31:01.858 --> 00:31:08.815 range of obesity in 2006. And I realized that's 10 years ago, but it's, um 00:31:08.848 --> 00:31:14.926 , a study done by the Department of Health Services. Half of the deaths in 00:31:14.959 --> 00:31:19.877 our state had to do with nutrition related disease. They could have been 00:31:19.910 --> 00:31:27.910 mitigated by um access to, to better food. Um So if you're thinking about 00:31:28.858 --> 00:31:34.137 public health and if you're thinking about um you know, lower insurance 00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:39.805 costs for everybody and you're thinking about a cleaner environment that's 00:31:39.838 --> 00:31:45.766 less taxing on um whatever contributes to climate change, we should be 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:51.246 making it more possible for people to have healthier food choices, not 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:56.897 just fruits and vegetables, but fruits and vegetables, clean um antibiotic 00:31:56.930 --> 00:32:04.526 , free meat because it's been proven that you, if you eat meat, that the 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:08.647 animals that have been treated with antibiotics to make them grow faster 00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:14.137 and keep healthy in a herd that your body becomes resistant to the 00:32:14.170 --> 00:32:16.325 antibiotics. 00:32:16.358 --> 00:32:22.276 Um hormone free because there are um studies showing that little Children 00:32:22.309 --> 00:32:27.397 , women, girls that have hormones in their milk are starting their 00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:32.996 menstrual cycles earlier, um pesticide free because who knows what the 00:32:33.029 --> 00:32:39.295 heck is going on with the things that kill pesticides. And so all of those 00:32:39.328 --> 00:32:45.217 things are all connected. And here, 00:32:45.250 --> 00:32:51.137 you know, I, I am only been here, I'll be here two years next week is 00:32:51.170 --> 00:32:54.476 August 4th. 00:32:54.509 --> 00:32:58.835 People have weird ideas. They think that if you're low income, you 00:32:58.868 --> 00:33:03.666 shouldn't be buying organic food. They think it's enough to eat vegetables 00:33:03.699 --> 00:33:08.147 rather than buy local. And I'm like, this is crazy. You could do two 00:33:08.180 --> 00:33:12.756 things at one time. You could buy local food. You could spend the same 00:33:12.789 --> 00:33:17.276 amount of money and keep the money here in the community and it, you know 00:33:17.309 --> 00:33:21.276 where your food comes from. You're making a choice about it tastes better. 00:33:21.309 --> 00:33:27.085 It's picked the day before, you know. And so you want to have more of it. 00:33:27.118 --> 00:33:32.936 It should be in our school meals, um, all the time. And at our school 00:33:32.969 --> 00:33:40.156 gardens, it's now possible for people to kids to eat what they grow in 00:33:40.189 --> 00:33:48.189 their meals. So, so that you're surrounded by healthy choices and it's not 00:33:48.479 --> 00:33:52.877 just like food is like this thing that 00:33:52.910 --> 00:33:57.486 comes out, you know, it's over processed, it comes out of a bag. You never 00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:05.519 feel quite full but you feel um, well salted and, and all that. And so it 00:34:05.739 --> 00:34:11.546 , I like ice cream and chips the most is, you know, the next guy. But uh 00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:17.967 it's um, I have a choice to, to get those. I don't, I don't eat too much 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.675 processed food except pasta because I don't know how to, I haven't sat 00:34:21.708 --> 00:34:25.646 down to make it by myself and I buy bread from the store. But the rest of 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:33.285 it, um, rice, I guess we buy rice and bulk beans. But um, people should 00:34:33.318 --> 00:34:36.644 have the choice of it and it should be close to them and they shouldn't 00:34:36.677 --> 00:34:42.206 have to, um, worry that if they try something new for their kid and the 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:45.485 kid throws it away, they've just put money down the drain that they can't 00:34:45.518 --> 00:34:51.995 replace that kind of thing. That, and that's how I think local connects to 00:34:52.028 --> 00:34:58.365 making your economy better making your community more connected, making 00:34:58.398 --> 00:35:03.856 the environment cleaner and addressing health related disease, nutrition 00:35:03.889 --> 00:35:08.497 related disease. Great. Thank you. Yeah, it seems very important then just 00:35:08.530 --> 00:35:15.486 all these connections. Um So you've, you've talked a lot about uh working 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:20.626 with other people and organizations and, and you even spoke about um, a 00:35:20.659 --> 00:35:26.206 board of uh of directors. Now, when you're working with all those people, 00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:32.655 uh how do you decide, um, is, is, or rather how do you create a sort of 00:35:32.688 --> 00:35:38.195 list of priorities or which, which food problems do you decide to address 00:35:38.228 --> 00:35:44.456 first? Well, I think you have to talk about it. I just had somebody said, 00:35:44.489 --> 00:35:50.166 review this policy for the Maricopa County Food System Coalition and they 00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:54.856 were gonna be advocates for local food policies. I said, well, how do you 00:35:54.889 --> 00:35:57.905 know which ones, 00:35:57.938 --> 00:36:03.566 you know, they asked me to comment and I, and I sounds good. How do you 00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.727 know what, which ones you're gonna have a slew of them? And so you have to 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:15.787 sit down and, and figure out broad categories and then the low hanging 00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:19.467 fruit, what can be done here and what can be done here. So there's some 00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:25.467 strategic planning involved in it. Um, I'm working with, I was working 00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:31.787 with a group in South Phoenix, um, that they're all over the place, their 00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:36.106 vision, their charisma, charisma is just fabulous, but it's like I can't 00:36:36.139 --> 00:36:41.736 keep up with what they're trying to do and I'm, I told them to call me 00:36:41.769 --> 00:36:45.845 when they're ready to do a couple of things. And um I'm working with 00:36:45.878 --> 00:36:51.186 another group of farmers right now and we're gonna focus on a couple of 00:36:51.219 --> 00:36:58.146 things that we agreed to are the most. Everybody talks and everybody says 00:36:58.179 --> 00:37:04.066 this is where I'm coming from. This is what's important to me. Oh, this is 00:37:04.099 --> 00:37:09.736 where I'm coming from. It's a little bit different. Let's figure it out. 00:37:09.769 --> 00:37:13.425 So it's just a process. 00:37:13.458 --> 00:37:19.327 Great. Um So we, we've talked about this a little bit but what do you 00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:25.206 think are the biggest challenges to uh creating a sustainable food system 00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:30.717 ? 00:37:30.750 --> 00:37:35.986 Landownership, water access, 00:37:36.019 --> 00:37:41.675 most of the growers I know don't own the land they farm on. Um Water is a 00:37:41.708 --> 00:37:48.816 big issue. There's some tension between um 00:37:48.849 --> 00:37:54.206 use of water for municipal, you know, housing developments and, and 00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.497 farming and um zoning 00:37:58.530 --> 00:38:04.546 for ag lands is uh you know, putting some kind of land into agricultural 00:38:04.579 --> 00:38:10.727 production for a long time preservation. So land and water are big. Zoning 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:16.997 is big. Um Where's the next generation of growers gonna come from? It's 00:38:17.030 --> 00:38:22.517 hard. Fun is hard, it hurts, it hurts your body, it hurts your mind, it 00:38:22.550 --> 00:38:27.267 hurts your pocketbook. Um And yet some people can't be anything but 00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:34.186 growers and um ranchers. And so um the next generation of growers and then 00:38:34.219 --> 00:38:42.219 getting it to be um a in demand. Um and people wanting it knowing it, it's 00:38:44.208 --> 00:38:48.756 like you go to Burlington Vermont and you can't escape it. You walk down 00:38:48.789 --> 00:38:54.236 the street and everybody's got um a blackboard in the window. What's on 00:38:54.269 --> 00:38:58.517 the menu? And where, what farm it came from? I was just in Madison, 00:38:58.550 --> 00:39:03.767 Wisconsin. It's the same. Um at least where I was there. They really 00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:09.436 highlighted it here. It's not so much. And then the fourth or fifth piece 00:39:09.469 --> 00:39:17.469 is um is policy, it is policy that um state and national policy that 00:39:19.378 --> 00:39:21.675 encourages 00:39:21.708 --> 00:39:25.365 um local food 00:39:25.398 --> 00:39:31.557 distribution, excess consumption and production. 00:39:31.590 --> 00:39:36.517 OK. So, so with that in mind, I guess what, what does food sustainability 00:39:36.550 --> 00:39:40.626 mean to you 00:39:40.659 --> 00:39:45.736 all those pieces that need to be in place? You'd need to have production 00:39:45.769 --> 00:39:50.236 capacity, you'd need to have distribution capacity and then you'd need to 00:39:50.269 --> 00:39:55.646 have um demand, excess 00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:03.679 consumption, prefer ability. Um So it's just of a piece, it has to be able 00:40:03.750 --> 00:40:08.916 to be available and then it has to be able to be accessible and then 00:40:08.949 --> 00:40:14.115 people have to, to want it and it just keeps going around like that, the 00:40:14.148 --> 00:40:18.997 more people want it, the more people are gonna try to make sure that it 00:40:19.030 --> 00:40:21.695 happens. 00:40:21.728 --> 00:40:25.365 Great. Um 00:40:25.398 --> 00:40:31.095 What is dinner 2040? 00:40:31.128 --> 00:40:38.546 Um 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:42.467 It seems to be um 00:40:42.500 --> 00:40:48.195 a cultural event that um 00:40:48.228 --> 00:40:56.228 shows us where we are and where we could be and um involves because of the 00:40:58.378 --> 00:41:02.445 people planning it um 00:41:02.478 --> 00:41:10.478 local historical context as well as um some kinds of real tangible um 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:18.057 art forms. And I know that the plates and the serving in all the utensils 00:41:18.090 --> 00:41:22.675 and stuff to the baroness been integral and putting together. And so 00:41:22.708 --> 00:41:29.227 you're gonna get an experience of where we could be and where we hope to 00:41:29.260 --> 00:41:33.997 be as a community. Um 00:41:34.030 --> 00:41:40.736 24 years from now or whatever it is. And um 00:41:40.769 --> 00:41:48.769 and I, I'm not sure then what we have to do to ensure that we get there, 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:58.719 but I hope we figure that part out. Great. Um So why do you think the, the 00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:03.695 Dinner 2040 program is important to the community? 00:42:03.728 --> 00:42:09.077 Well, because it brings the focus home on, on, on, um, 00:42:09.110 --> 00:42:16.327 where we might not be if we don't pay attention for one thing. Um Excuse 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:22.695 me, it, it, I know that there's some tribal folks that have been invited 00:42:22.728 --> 00:42:30.106 to be involved and, and I hope that, um it under, it shows the kind of 00:42:30.139 --> 00:42:37.345 broad spectrum of people involved in the food system and 00:42:37.378 --> 00:42:43.666 people are just gonna have to step up and say if they care, um, enough to 00:42:43.699 --> 00:42:50.557 say what could happen in 2040. If we don't pay attention, where's our food 00:42:50.590 --> 00:42:54.497 gonna come from? What's it gonna look like? What's gonna happen to our 00:42:54.530 --> 00:43:01.896 farmers average age 61 here in our state. Um If we don't 00:43:01.929 --> 00:43:06.577 do something now to protect them. 00:43:06.610 --> 00:43:12.756 Um So I think for that reason, if that, if they lift that up, I think that 00:43:12.789 --> 00:43:15.497 part is important. 00:43:15.530 --> 00:43:20.776 Ok. Great. And uh what what do you consider your role to be in, in the, in 00:43:20.809 --> 00:43:24.336 2040 program? 00:43:24.369 --> 00:43:29.267 At this point? I've just said I'm going to be a volunteer. I, I, um, have 00:43:29.300 --> 00:43:37.300 been a Gadfly. I have been an idea expander. I have been, um, a person 00:43:38.188 --> 00:43:41.467 pointer. Include this person. How about that person? How about that person 00:43:41.500 --> 00:43:49.500 ? Somehow they have managed to pull it together. But, um, I got impatient 00:43:51.139 --> 00:43:56.195 with the planning process and I stepped back and both the Jones know that 00:43:56.228 --> 00:44:03.977 and my, uh, um, I've put on many a conference in my life and I need a 00:44:04.010 --> 00:44:06.586 little more structure. 00:44:06.619 --> 00:44:12.477 So, um, they, they've got, it, it looks beautiful and at this point I said 00:44:12.510 --> 00:44:19.026 , do with me what you will on the day of and, and I'll wash dishes or 00:44:19.059 --> 00:44:24.405 whatever you got there, set up tables. But, um, that's how it was. I love 00:44:24.438 --> 00:44:29.146 talking with both. Um, it's been Joan and Joan and Maya and me for the 00:44:29.179 --> 00:44:34.307 most part, I haven't met most of the students. And, um, and so we've just 00:44:34.340 --> 00:44:38.296 been going, oh, no. What? Well, you know, we've just done a lot of back 00:44:38.329 --> 00:44:44.977 forth and, and, um, visioning, which is really cool. Um, and so I was 00:44:45.010 --> 00:44:51.405 there and then I just kind of said, um, you guys, I need this, I need, uh 00:44:51.438 --> 00:44:56.956 , I need, here's a list of things I need 00:44:56.989 --> 00:45:01.436 in order for me to understand how we're actually going to pull this off. 00:45:01.469 --> 00:45:07.307 Um And they've done it. They, I, from what I can tell from reading the 00:45:07.340 --> 00:45:14.506 emails, it looks like they've, you know, I made a grid and is, that's how 00:45:14.539 --> 00:45:19.885 my brain works. And I was like, where's the timeline? How are you gonna 00:45:19.918 --> 00:45:27.115 come for this? How, how do you do that? Um And it looks like they are, 00:45:27.148 --> 00:45:32.017 they've made a, you know, in a parallel universe, a way to make the event 00:45:32.050 --> 00:45:39.376 happen so good. Yeah. So, so how did you, um, how did you find out about 00:45:39.409 --> 00:45:47.409 it or were introduced to it? Oh, I think John Barron invited me. Um, 00:45:50.179 --> 00:45:55.537 I knew her from the market downtown and I knew Maya is like one of my best 00:45:55.570 --> 00:45:59.327 friends my daily and, um, 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:06.256 I didn't know Joan but it turns out I know her daughter and, um, she had a 00:46:06.289 --> 00:46:14.289 food truck, um, before she went to work with her stepdad and, um, 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:20.635 she made the best food ever and I didn't know they were connected and, um 00:46:20.668 --> 00:46:27.776 , I have just been around in the world of local food for a day or two. So 00:46:27.809 --> 00:46:35.445 , ok. Um, what were your first thoughts about the idea of, sort of 00:46:35.478 --> 00:46:40.767 creating a vision for what the, the, the Arizona food system would look 00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:48.425 like in, in 25 years or so? 00:46:48.458 --> 00:46:52.336 Well, I think it's good to start with where we're at now and get a 00:46:52.369 --> 00:46:57.827 baseline and then try to figure out what needs to happen. Um, and I think 00:46:57.860 --> 00:47:03.896 there was an event at a SU for a couple of days, um goodness, several 00:47:03.929 --> 00:47:09.115 years ago already now where um a as part when they first got this grant, 00:47:09.148 --> 00:47:12.626 um 00:47:12.659 --> 00:47:18.655 they brought in Vandana Shiva. Vandana Shiva from India to come and then 00:47:18.688 --> 00:47:22.336 they had people from all over the country that were also participating in 00:47:22.369 --> 00:47:29.526 this project um in their own communities. And so we sat for two days and 00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:35.747 the, so it used to be the sociology building over there at a su and, um 00:47:35.780 --> 00:47:39.876 kind of went through 00:47:39.909 --> 00:47:47.497 the fast track of what's, um, what will it look like? What would a dinner 00:47:47.530 --> 00:47:52.287 look like? What is important to you even down to what the menu would be 00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:56.195 and everybody had, you know, how they do that, they split you up and all 00:47:56.228 --> 00:48:01.077 that. And so, no, 00:48:01.110 --> 00:48:06.135 I, I thought it was worthwhile because there were some pretty out of the 00:48:06.168 --> 00:48:12.186 box thinkers at the table and, um, that was kind of fun and then all of a 00:48:12.219 --> 00:48:16.195 sudden it was like, ok, well, now we're gonna plan a dinner here. I'm like 00:48:16.228 --> 00:48:23.606 , ok. Um, and we've moved the date twice because it wasn't quite, um 00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:31.639 gelled yet. Hm. Ok. Um, so there's the, the dinner 2040 is sort of 00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:40.017 centered around uh the humanities, right? Um And usually when people think 00:48:40.050 --> 00:48:44.747 about food sustainability, it's very scientific or engineering and all 00:48:44.780 --> 00:48:49.135 that. Uh Could you talk a little bit about what the humanities have to 00:48:49.168 --> 00:48:54.467 offer as far as food sustainability goes. 00:48:54.500 --> 00:49:02.500 Um The little I know about it is that um 00:49:03.820 --> 00:49:10.256 our relationships to each other um and to the world and to material things 00:49:10.289 --> 00:49:16.175 and immaterial things, our religion or our, 00:49:16.208 --> 00:49:24.208 a lot of times based in, in history and religion and worldview. And so the 00:49:25.369 --> 00:49:32.557 more clear we can become about what worldviews are in play as we 00:49:32.590 --> 00:49:38.767 understand, who has access to food and how it's produced. Um the stories, 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:44.006 the traditions, um 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:49.695 the more familiar we can become with options, it's like being a world 00:49:49.728 --> 00:49:56.236 traveler. If you just stay in your, in your neighborhood 00:49:56.269 --> 00:50:01.577 and you just do what you do. It's one thing can, you can honor and revere 00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:07.436 that. But the minute you step out and you visit Scandinavia, Ireland or 00:50:07.469 --> 00:50:12.845 West Africa and all of a sudden, people are thinking about things and 00:50:12.878 --> 00:50:19.217 doing them differently, then you begin to say, well, gosh, I wonder how 00:50:19.250 --> 00:50:25.296 that can apply here. So I think it's about expanding your cultural base 00:50:25.329 --> 00:50:31.517 and I think it's about um recognizing 00:50:31.550 --> 00:50:37.026 where you've come to 00:50:37.059 --> 00:50:42.206 on the continuum from 00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:47.577 whatever religious forces and revolutionary forces and everything got us 00:50:47.610 --> 00:50:55.416 to this day. I think in, I personally think we're coming out of this, but 00:50:55.449 --> 00:51:02.655 in the last 4 to 600 years in the United States, 00:51:02.688 --> 00:51:08.086 the um prevailing 00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:16.119 point of view that people seem to being a adhered to is that um the more 00:51:16.918 --> 00:51:21.747 stuff you have the better person you are and those without are pretty 00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:27.276 shameful examples of human beings. And, and 00:51:27.309 --> 00:51:31.467 I think that 00:51:31.500 --> 00:51:38.686 that has its roots in certain kinds of religions and I organized religions. 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:43.336 And I think that, um 00:51:43.369 --> 00:51:51.307 the idea of man, humans being dominant over nature and all that kind of 00:51:51.340 --> 00:51:59.340 stuff have led us to the huge amounts of disparity that we see. And so I 00:51:59.570 --> 00:52:05.905 think that being able to, um 00:52:05.938 --> 00:52:10.635 get some context for that and understand it doesn't always have to be like 00:52:10.668 --> 00:52:17.425 that going into the future is maybe where the humanity is coming. Yeah. Um 00:52:17.458 --> 00:52:23.186 yeah, when you talk about sort of the cultural expectations that are 00:52:23.219 --> 00:52:26.727 associated with food, it, it made me think about what you said about your 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:30.615 father, how being a good provider meant that you were able to put meat on 00:52:30.648 --> 00:52:37.546 the table. So that's very interesting. Um Is there anything left that 00:52:37.579 --> 00:52:40.425 you'd like to add about 00:52:40.458 --> 00:52:46.376 dinner in 2040 or, or food sustainability in general? 00:52:46.409 --> 00:52:50.727 No, I, I think in this fast paced world we live in though John, I just 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:57.557 think um sharing a meal with friends and remembering to share it with 00:52:57.590 --> 00:53:04.376 others less fortunate. Um is a huge gift. 00:53:04.409 --> 00:53:09.188 Great. Thank you. So.