Today is September 3rd 2015. My name is Christi Narra Backman
interviewing for Arizona State University for the Dinner 2040 project.
Good morning. Could I ask you your name and if you introduce yourself?
Yeah. Hi. My name is Natalie Morris. Um I am the, I'm a faculty member of
Mesa Community College and I teach core classes in the sustainable Food
Systems program there. I also am the local foods coordinator for local
First Arizona. So let's talk a little bit about where you were born and
where you grew up. I am actually um an Arizona native. I was born and
raised here. Um I often like to joke that I ran away for just a little bit
um uh a year specifically, maybe a year and a half. Um and uh went off to
another country so nobody can accuse me of uh forsaking Arizona or
anything for those of you out there who are die hard Arizonans um just for
education purposes and then uh spent a little bit of time in the big city
of New York. Um just to hopefully bring back some of the best of the best
there and came back here and here I am again. So let's talk about um
growing up and kind of cooking in your house and your family and what that
was like for yourself. Sure. So, um looking at me, you wouldn't be able to
tell. Um, but uh I grew up with a Dutch Indonesian grandmother. She was
our adopted grandmother. I just was, she was a neighbor and uh um from an
early point in my life, um, used to come over all the time and she would
babysit my sister and I, and, um, really just became the grandmother that
we always knew, but she was Indonesian by birth and then, um, a migrant
and she would, um, she early in her life then went to, um, the Netherlands
to escape the war. And, uh, she, um, ended up coming here at some point in
her life to, um, Arizona. And so I grew up often on her food. There was no
question in her mind that she would be serving us the dishes that she knew
very well. She was a cook by, um, trade, um, had owned her own restaurant
in the Netherlands. And, uh, she served my sister and I food that I don't
think typical kids eat. Um, I think in her mind it was food that kids
should eat. Um, I don't think my, my hunch was always that, um, she didn't
even know what baby food was. Um, so from an early age um we would eat
things like steamed broccoli with peanut sauce and I to this day
definitely credit uh broccoli with peanut sauce. The dish that brings me
to where I am now with my beliefs about food and culture. So um that's how
I kind of feel about uh where that started. It sort of was like a spicy
peanut sauce and my palate, I think just like from right then on always
demanded um, that kind of food. And in addition, my mother actually was
from the Midwest and my dad was from the South. So whatever food, um we
had when she wasn't around, um, was always sort of like midwestern um,
American food, um, whatever, whatever foods you can recall or come up with
that might uh be from that um part of the US. And then of course, southern
food, my dad was, um, appreciative of all those kinds of foods as well. So
when he had the time would make us those things. So kind of a co uh a
mishmash of all those kinds of foods were on our tables as kids. Do you
remember, um, cooking with your grandmother or helping or would she allow
you to or what was that experience? Was actually, she was actually pretty
,
my, my recollection was actually that she was pretty closed off about it.
She, it was her space in the kitchen. It was her time to almost zone out
and be away from us. And, um, though I kind of remember her giving us
little tasks, set us up at the table and, and putting us up to something.
I, I always sort of look back now and think maybe it was just her getting
us, you know, out of her hair, um, and less about helping her. So I
remember her always being really concentrated when she was standing at the
, um, cutting board or over the stove. And when I think back it wasn't, um
, it was just, it was her time, you know, to be away from, from society or
whatever it was that stressed her out and I just sort of picture her, she
would take a long time to cook. It was, it was really long and oddly long.
So I really think that it was her time and her, her space and, um, she
had a lot of things going at once. There would be boiling things and
sauteing things and chopping things. She was quite the multitasker. And I
think that fed into that time away as well. So she would just have a lot
of things going on and, and, and be quite in the zone much in the way that
chef, professional chefs talk about, um, this being their escape sometimes.
Yeah. So tell me when she finished cooking and the, and the dishes were
served, did you all sit together as a family to eat dinner or? Yeah. So
that was my, that might be where she kind of tuned back in with us. She
definitely put everything then on the table in a family style, uh, portion
size dishes and ate with us. And, uh, um, her family was mixed family from
very early on in her life. We weren't her, her only adopted family. She
had another family that, uh, she had adopted along the way somewhere. Um,
and they lived here as well for a few years. And so they would often be
over and um they were Dutch as well and lived here. And so we would have
them at the table or um there were often a few people at the table. I
don't quite remember who all they were, but our church people were often
there. Um Everyone loved her food. Um It was different. We don't have that
much of a culture here in Arizona and I think people were attracted to
that and I think people are often attracted to spices and foods. Um So we
did, we had family dinners and people really liked being around almost too.
The smells were attractive and therefore we all sort of attracted our,
the the table attracted us. And so yeah, we would sit around the table and
enjoy for quite a while. There was big, huge plates of the same things
every time, but we never got tired of them.
So tell me how um when did your interest um spark and when did you, when
did your interest for food, take hold or kind of come about. Yeah. So I
think I put two and two together for myself. Probably when I was 16 it was
around the time that the Food Network was becoming a thing and they, the
Food Network was launched, I think with about three,
chefs or something like that. And I would, my sister and I would, um, just
lay on the ground and watch Food Network all day. I don't know that I
connected it to what was going on at home or anything like that. It was
just interesting to me and we hadn't, my sister and I not, we hadn't
really grown up with a big TV presence in our house, um, especially not
cable or anything like that. Um, but at that point, I guess we did have
cable and we watched the Food Network when it started to take hold and so
we would watch it and at some point, I guess I had never really realized
that being a chef for, I guess I never realized that you could be a chef
for a living. And so being in high school, I guess I had started to think
about what I would do after high school and I started thinking about, I
could work in food. I could be a chef. And, um, the food network did that
for me started to get my wheels turning and, um, I had already sort of had
that palette. I think that where I, I really just loved all food and the
food network was where the wheels started turning. Um, and
I guess I just took it from there. It was obviously not till years, a few
years later that I went to college. But, um, that was kind of where I left
off. Was that, was that turning point for me? Was the food network. Did
you start cooking in high school as well? Your own dishes or? I guess I
was interested in it. But I don't really have a memory of doing much
cooking. I think. I remember maybe in middle school, my dad, I have a
memory of my dad teaching me how to make scrambled eggs. Um, but like good
scrambled eggs, you know, um, he had a theory of how to do that and, you
know, a perfect recipe low and slow. Um, he added milk which I've since
eliminated from my own recipe.
But, um, I don't remember doing much cooking. I remember being very
interested in it so that when I did do some cooking, I would really spend
a lot of time on it. Um, and cook quite a few dishes at once, but I don't
remember it an ongoing thing. Um, probably until,
probably until I was about 18. Um, I got married young. So, um, I got
married when I was 19. So that was probably where it started to become
more of a, a thing. I, I was living on, I, I moved out of my parents'
house, obviously when we, we got married so that, you know, now I was in
my own place and I had to survive. So, um it became more of a consistent
thing at that point. So let's talk a little bit about um college and
cooking and that transition and how you got interested in food
sustainability issues. Sure. So after I got married, um my husband and I
both then continued on into college. Um, and I decided kind of out of,
more, out of, uh being naive that I didn't really, I knew I wanted to work
in food, but I didn't know how to do that other than being a chef. So I
went to, I enrolled in culinary school and, um, had so much fun doing it.
It was, you know, at the time where everyone was sort of thinking like, or
I had this perception, I guess maybe it wasn't a real thing, but I thought
that it was a big thing during that time. I knew a lot of people who were
sort of ditching their careers and going to culinary school. Um, and I
decided to do that and there was a new program at the Art Institute of
Phoenix and it was a Bachelor's degree. That was a really new thing at
that time. Prior to that, it was um only associates degrees or
certificates. And I wanted my bachelor's degree that was important to me.
Education in general had always been important to me. So I wanted to make
sure to get my bachelor's degree. So that was a selling point for me. So I
enrolled at the Art Institute of Phoenix to make sure to get my bachelor's
degree in culinary arts. And uh I went there and that was a great program.
Um I learned a lot and during that time, I also ended up working for um
uh two chefs here in the Valley. The restaurants are no longer, but they
were like, the chefs were just wonderful to me. Um I worked for Greg Lrad
at Quiescence and um uh Deborah Knight at Mosaic Restaurant and uh between
the formality of school and the practicality, the hands on at the
restaurants I learned so, so much. But, um, that was where I decided to
really kick into gear, um with my education and training and getting my
Bachelor's degree and um
moving on from there and making it a formal profession. It was during that
time, I think probably in my second year of my bachelor's degree that
something popped into my head. I started to think it was really strange
that we'd have all this food chucked in. Um, when we could have just
ordered the fresh produce from around the corner specifically, I was
thinking of Maya's Farm and
I asked my chef that I said, you know, why aren't we just very much
naively. I said, why are we ordering food from this really beautiful farm
, which I'm sure is just going to be fresh. Um, and probably taste better
. I mean, it's been sitting on a truck all day. It probably will just be
more tasty. And it, it, the whole thing was, like I said, very naive. And
um my chef, God bless him. I love him. He's a great guy, but he, you know
, old guard kind of chef looked at me and said mirror like something like
that literally was what came out of his mouth. He kind of mumbled
something and I was like, well, ok, whatever, like, I guess, um uh so that
was what got the wheels turning for me. Um I didn't like the, you know,
like that was not OK. So that was where I um started to think about more
food in terms of sustainability. Um It was just basic sort of one and one
I think what happened next? Um I ended up, it was getting close to my,
where do I go from here in my bachelor's degree? And so I ended up
thinking like, well, how could I go from here? How could I turn my life
into more of a sustainable? That word wasn't a real big thing yet. But how
could I turn, um, what I'm doing into that, you know? Um I went home and I
simply just googled something. I don't even know what it was, but I ended
up finding a syllabus. It just popped up and it was the degree program
that I attended in Italy. And uh it was the master's in food culture um
and communication for the University of Gastronomic Sciences. And I just
read through this syllabus and it was everything I'd wanted to study. It
was everything from, obviously, it was food culture, but it was food
systems as well. It was everything um about.
So the sociology of consumption, it was um studying, you know, um
the um geology um about food in the entire world. It was, it was just
everything and I looked at the syllabus and I said this is what I want. It
was nothing I didn't want and it was everything I wanted. And it was
taught by experts that were flown in from all over the world. And it also
had this component to it that we would go out and do field work in a major
way, not just the school was based in Italy. So it was not just in Italy,
but it was also um you would go out and do field work in the eu. So we
went to places like Belgium and we went to places like um uh where else
did we go? Goodness. Um We went all across the eu to study as well. So I
had a big um you know, in classroom component, but it also had field work.
We would go out and we would learn from the people who do this and all of
that was really super attractive to me. So I um I applied and I got in and
I was, you know, kind of flabbergasted. I really didn't, admittedly I was
less interested in the master's degree and more interested in what I would
be doing. Um So that's how I ended up doing that and going where I was
with all of it and uh learning what I have been learning. So how would you
describe, um, what a food system is? So, one of the classes that I teach
at MESA is this, um, it's under the umbrella of sustainable food systems.
But one of the key components that I sort of kick off the class with is
that question because I think often it's sort of misunderstood. Um It
seems so the words seems so self explanatory, but it's not something that
people really think about. Um, it sort of revisits that idea of what,
where does our food come from. But even then it's mind boggling and we
wonder where, what that even means. And we sort of think, ok, it comes
from a farm that seems like the natural answer. Once you've gotten past,
it comes from a chef or something like that. But, um,
when we really think about currently where our food comes from, we don't
think about all the steps in between whether that's, um,
you know, if you really get down to the nitty gritty. You have to think
about the fact that the food comes or starts with a seed. Um And if you
back it up, just even further, it starts with the soil or if you back it
up even further, it starts with the inputs in that soil, which if you back
it up even further, it starts up, starts with what we're contributing to
that soil on a daily basis that we don't really even think about when
we're putting our trash in the trash bin. And how if we don't do that
correctly, it doesn't, it truly affects how then our soil and our
environment and the rain and all like all those inputs work. And so I'm
going backwards, but it's for a reason, you know, that's the part of this
food system that we have to continue to worry about.
Not to stress everyone out when I say worry. But that for me is the food
system. But if we sort of then go forward, we have to think about once the
food is out of the ground and it's, you know, been grown
once the food has grown, who is affected by that, who has um been a part
of that process. So the people um that's a part of the food system. So
we've gotten um you know, all the inputs we've talked about and then we've
gotten into the um
you follow that trail, you, you go through inputs, you go through soil and
seed and, and all of the growth there. But then you get to the point where
the food is grown and you talk about the people who are out there growing
the food. And I think that's a major thing because whether you're talking
about a large food system or you're talking about a small scale grower,
you have to consider
the people that are growing it. And if they're being paid well, if they're
being treated well, and if they're being
considered at all, so I think that's a part of the food system. But then
if you think about that, you have to talk, start talking about
transportation and how that works and how that whole process in general,
then really even affects our environment, which then revisits that whole
soil thing. It's this huge long process that if we start to talk about
where our food comes from, there's really so many answers to that. And I
think that's the food system and I'm not even, I'm not even visiting every
single little thing in there. But I think that for me is the food system.
And uh what I try to do with my students in that class is have that
conversation. It, it's a, it's an engaging conversation um that I try to
have with them rather than a defined conversation. Um because I think
that's super important to make people really have their wheels start to
turn on that rather than, um, say this is what a food system is, you know
, talking about that conversation. Is it hard to have that conversation
with them? Do they? It is, it is. Yeah. The thing is, I think they, it is
there innately, you know, we talk about these things from kindergarten up
but we sort of start to forget about them when we are teenagers. Starts
that those basic things that we learn about when we're a kid um start to
kind of go away and um it's harder and harder now that we are an
information based society. We have so many things coming at us all the
time between social media and all the forms of social media and all the
forms of news that we can read and see and hear and watch and um have
access to whether it's important or not. And I think we start to forget
about the things that I just
things that we need to know in life in order to um move forward. And I
think us as human beings, um
if we could take a step back, we could actually be more functional for our
own selves if we remembered some of these basic things. Um So, yeah, so
let's go back a little bit. Tell me what you think you learned from um
your experiences in Italy, the master's class. You know, it's funny
because it was a food program. But one of the things that indirectly
relates to what we're talking about is that one of the things I took away
, one of the biggest things I took away. And it's important to me every
day in my life is that we have to take time to just be. And I relate that
to food in a very big way because food allows us to just be um when we
take time to eat, we're taking the time to just nourish ourselves and
we're taking the time to nourish ourselves. Not only um
you know, to sate ourselves, but we're taking time to refresh, we're
taking time to um
just kind of renew and if we do it right, we're also taking time to
socialize and remember who we are as a species and conversations
arise and who knows ideas might become of whatever that situation is. And
, and it's really kind of a cool thing that food can do for us. And that
was one of the biggest things I think I took is Italy is pretty known for
just kind of taking their time to do things and they're also pretty known
for food. So I think that um the connection there is um pretty obvious and
I think that's a big thing that we can take from their culture. Europe is
a little bit more, less that way, but they still are. And I think that um
I'm gonna get this wrong because I always twist it up. But I think that
the expression that is used um is that often um they uh working to live or
we working to live and they're living, were living to work cause I, I
might be getting that backwards. But I love that expression because um
I think we could really slow it down a little bit and I, I hate to be so
cliche and whatever, but I think it's so true that if we sort of
prioritize what, um, what it is that when we do on a daily basis and we
take those times, whatever works for everybody. You know, if it's 15
minutes in the morning, 15 minutes in the afternoon, that, that's the
biggest thing. And I think food is the core of it. We all eat, we all love
food. Why not use food to be that thing that slows us down, you know. So
that's one of the biggest things I think that I took from Italy. So tell
me when you came back and what, what you did after you came back. So,
other than the fact that we lived in New York for a little bit, um, which
was a really, actually very fun experience because I got to work on a
really cool project there. Um, that I did end up bringing back here, um,
which was Truck Farm, Phoenix. Well, truck Farm in general. It was an
urban agriculture project that I helped to launch um, all across the
nation. But then I, there's one here over on Roosevelt Road. Um, now sure
if you'd like, um, it's, it's an urban agriculture project that's youth
oriented and it is a farm in the back of a truck bed. That really just the
idea is that it would go around to schools or anywhere youth hang out and
just show kids that we can grow food wherever and, you know, if it's just
the front porch or if it's right here at the table or something, they can
grow their own food. And, um, you know, all it really requires are the
essential inputs, you know, water and a little bit of sunlight depending
on the plant. And, uh, the idea is that doing those little things can help
you to save money, eat, better, eat fresher, more nutritiously, but also
have fun and be engaged. Um, as gardening can be therapeutic. So it, you
know, it is not the panacea for solving the food crisis or anything like
that. But it was a fun thing to be able to do across the country. A lot of
really cool food advocates got engaged in that and it was a really cool
thing to do. It was 2010, I think they've done two more rounds since then
, maybe three. So that was what I did while I was there mostly. Um, and
then came back here and uh did one here. Um, Roosevelt Grow House was
specifically the guys that took it over. Um, and, uh, after that I
actually worked with, uh, I went back to my old job prior to leaving and I
went to work with Cindy Jury at the Phoenix Public Market and helped with
the Urban Grocery, um, and did some work there, um, helping with kind of
everything. That was a, that was a group effort, the urban groceries. So,
um, everything I mostly did events, I guess was my biggest um undertaking
there after I returned um working every event from kind of food day based
events to little ones that we did um on our own. Um like the Chef series,
which was really fun where we got uh local chefs engaged in um various
small very intimate um dinners that we would host um kind of all of that.
And since then, um since the Urban Grocery, I ended up launching a
project called Guru Finder, which is an online directory of farmers and
food producers here in the State of Arizona. And I worked on that for
quite a while um under the umbrella of the Kellogg Foundation um and the
University of Arizona. So, and then I ended up um working with local first
Arizona to have them take that over and they will be relaunching that this
month. So, so let's go back a little bit about the truck, farm, truck farm.
Tell me what the role of education and why that initiative was so
important. So,
like I mentioned it was youth oriented and what we really wanted to do was
go out to underserved communities because at the time, and it's still
pretty prevalent that those were the communities that we felt were the
ones not hearing the message enough. Um, in any way, because simply due to
funding and things like that, those schools and those areas don't, aren't
having access to um things like school gardens. And um at least at that
time, um, now there's more funding that sort of goes more specifically to
things like food desserts. This was pre food desert awareness and things
like that. But, um, at that time, this was not, it wasn't like that um, in
any sort of bigger way. So this directly targeted the under serve,
underserved communities. Um And we wanted to make sure that we, um, took
that truck farm. I mean, it literally, it was, we drove, it, it was
difficult to drive a truck farm across town. But, um, we would take the
truck farms and just take them out to um various schools who wanted to
have it come. And it was a um,
a literal vehicle to showing kids how fun food and farming can be. Um And
we really just wanted to
make sure that we, I think highlighted the word fun because I think the
messaging that can be a part of some of this is often that it's sad and
that we don't know what's happening with food and then it's like I said,
there's a food crisis and then it can be daunting. It can, the messaging
along this line can be daunting. And we wanted to make sure that kids
particularly knew. I mean, they're our next generation, right. So we
wanted to make sure that they knew that this is going to be, it is a
really cool, um, it can be a really cool thing to be able to change the
food system. And uh so that was kind of the fun aspect of this is that
even though we're going to stereotypically, some parts of the communities
that may not be so happy, um We wanted to show them that this would be a
really cool space for them to potentially be involved in. So, um that was
, that was kind of, it was pretty simple mission. It was, and it was
successful. Kids had so much fun. I had fun. It was so much fun to be out
at these, at these schools, kids, we let them eat out of the truck. Um So
we took it when it was, you know, pretty full and sometimes overgrown and
uh kids just had so much fun. There's some really cool videos on youtube
of what the kids did and um it became a project of Food Corp. Um So they
often will show pictures or videos as well and uh it became, I know
there's some really cool quotes from um the food, core messaging of kids,
say the darndest things and things like that. So it was just kids. Uh, the
reactions were amazing.
They totally did. Um, that's actually what I can't. I wish I could
remember the quote. There's one kid who I'm picturing in that and he was
saying something along that line where he's saying something about how he
just loves parsley now, like he just only wants to eat parsley or
something. And I wish that I could remember the quote because it was
really adorable. But yeah, along that line, he, they got it and they, we
had a contest once. Um, well, I think every year had the contest and they
would send in like plants that they planted, um, in like a half of a
basketball or like the idea was to plant in quirky places and, and they
did and they just planted, um, things and they would cut a basketball in
half and plant it in basketball or a grocery cart or any of the quirkiest
places they could find. And so, yeah, they did and they had fun. Why is
getting that message across to young Children? Important?
Um,
I think,
I think for me anyway, I,
I think it really just boils down to the fact. And this affected me too
for a while, I think. But somewhere between
good food finder after I launched good food finder and now there was a
point in time where I felt that message and the, and the depression of
that message. Sometimes I feel the, the pain of how like sad, this message
can be portrayed. And it is because it is sad. There are some statistics
out there about all parts of that food chain that can be really depressing
and kind of makes you wonder where are we going from here? And um, kids
feel that kind of thing. You know, kids are really attuned to their
surroundings and they don't let on often or they don't, or we see them
crying and they can't express that. And I think that um that is partly why
we need to bring a positive message to students, students, kids, whatever
because
they are our next generation. They need to know the facts, but they also
need to know why it's important to be positive about it. Um I teach my
students in that way. I don't like the fear mongering messages or, or any
of that because while again, they need to know the facts. They need to
know what's out there and the sadness with say, um the, the animals and
humans and the environment and all of that, but they need to know why
we're doing this. You know, they need to know the positivity and I think
that's why it's important to get kids
out there and having fun with it, you know? Ok. Can you tell me a little
bit about, um, how can you tell me how you would define food
sustainability? Oh
Question. Um
oh boy, can I create more of a picture? OK.
Maybe this is gonna be too. I have a feeling that might just be another
answer to your question or something. But I see food sustainability as
this might be more of a ideal scenario. But it's something that if I could
recreate the world right now. This is my idea of how food sustainability
or even a sustainable world would look like in general. Um
I would si would picture it as local communities working together
in
how do I say this
kind of like little spots all around the world of local communities
working together. So we don't have to rely on buying something that comes
from really far away. So utilizing the best of the best that your neighbor
has or um it, it maybe, like I said, it doesn't necessarily have to be
food. It's maybe it's the guy next door and he makes, um you know, pottery
or the guy next door makes um some kind of essential that you need. And um
the farmer down the street or the cheese maker down the street or whatever
, but you're all buying from one another kind of a revisit to the way it
was hm 100 years ago, you know, maybe a little more, but relying on one
another and to me that's food sustainability or sustainability in general
is just making sure you're putting the food on the table of your neighbor
, if you will. And um to me that's what that scenario looks like. Ideally.
Can you tell me a little bit about um the good, good food finder? Why
your inspiration and what were your goals for it or how it came about?
So, when I received the funding um from the Kellogg Foundation, there
weren't too many parameters. They kind of just said do something great.
And at first, I was kind of like, what does that mean? What do you want me
to chew? And um
I knew that at the time the program was called um Borderlands Food and
Water Security.
And so I knew that it obviously had to meet the criteria of food and water
security, something that um needed to be in the realm of serving
a longer term purpose of all of that. So I started to think like, what am
I passionate about and what I'm really passionate about within all of this
is um farmers and food producers, small scale, medium scale farmers and
food producers. I really think that if we can support them, they will,
there's a return on that and am, you know, a um a um multi effect return.
And I really thought that at least here in Arizona that was kind of
underserved. And I still think in some ways it is, but I thought that I'm
a big fan of quick wins. I'm like, I'm thinking like, what could I do that
would be relatively easy within that budget. That
will have a pretty quick pay off. And I thought, what about just a local
foods directory? We already have a couple here in the state, but no one
that really serves small scale, medium scale farmers and food producers.
And I thought, you know, if I could create something like that, which I
was, I'm pretty tech savvy. I knew I could create a website. I needed some
help with some back end development and some design. But I really wanted
one that would be able to
almost be a quick way to market them. If people looked up ex farmer, they
would be able to find farms that are near to them. But also, then what
else would they find on that profile? They would find ways to get to them
, ways to shop, ways to, um then, you know, forward them on to their
friend who's looking for some special thing. There were so many ways that
I thought this could then, you know, help the community. Um And later I
thought, well, you know, even this data is amazing because we could show
the world that Arizona is not just about the five Seas anymore or we're
not just about um the dry desert, you know, we're here and we're cool just
like everywhere else. And so there were some things that I thought and we
could put numbers to that directory and we can say, hey, look, we have,
I'm making this up, but we have over, you know, 200 farmers that are
selling eggs or whatever. Um And so to me, that was my quick one. I was
thinking like if we can put this up in a logical amount of time and make
it beautifully presented as well, then it would be attractive. People
would want to use it, they would remember it was there and they would do,
you know, they would use it, but then the farmers would see value in it
too. And so, um that was what I used the money for and that's what I
thought. Ok, this is good. And so, you know, as with any business, um you
have to figure out ways to keep it funded or keep it moving forward. And
so I did put a lot of effort into it for about two years or something like
that. And I worked with some really great people here in the community
that did the branding for it. Um And helped me with the back end
development of it. Um And uh we just took it to that next level until
there, it was no longer a place where I could give to it anymore. I didn't
even know how to go about going to the next level. Um But that was what I
wanted to do with good food finder. And that was, uh now I'm just so proud
of where it's going to be going in the next year. So we'll see why is this
, why was it important for small and medium farms? So I believe personally
, that kind of revisiting when I was kind of creating that food
sustainability picture, I believe personally that small and medium scale
farmers um are
the key to that picture. If we have small and medium scales, we have
medium scale farmers, then we have small businesses helping to create our
sustainable state or sustainable world if you will. And the number of
small and I say medium because it's sort of like that small to massive
world that we're currently facing. But so the medium people can probably
get grouped in with the small at this point. But um if we eliminate the
small farmer, then we're really only left with the large farmer at this
point. So
small farmers have the capability to do things that large farmers can't.
And um those are things like growing um poly culture systems. They can
grow much more. Um I in much more um biodiverse ways they can grow a lot
more foods that are heritage foods that are disappearing from our um list
of foods that we need to make sure that we keep intact. Um They can um
help grow our economies as I was sort of getting at there in the beginning
just because they are a small business and they sell to small, you know,
fellow small businesses such as small restaurants or, or via C SAS which
keeps the money circulating via individuals. Um, I think those people are
so much are, are small scale farmers and medium scale farmers are the ones
that really help to keep things going. Obviously, when they're growing the
diverse, um, fruits and vegetables, they're helping to contribute to our
environment. Um,
I don't know, I guess I could keep going on about the various ways they're
helping, But to me, those are the things that, um, those are the reasons
that they are so important and that's why I wanted to make sure we show
them off in good food finder. So I'm gonna follow up with the comment you
made about heritage foods. Can you tell me what those are and why they're
important? Yeah. So to me, well, more specifically, I guess not just
heritage foods but, um, what often? So I'm kind of thinking too fast in my
head, but heritage foods are often ones that, um, haven't yet been, um,
genetically modified and they're also, um, ones that, um,
I can't quite remember the year. I want to say that there's no official
designation, but I feel like it's longer than 50 years that they haven't
been. Um,
I can't quite remember. I wanna say it's 50 the,
if you go to. So I'm on the committee for the Southwest Arc of Taste for
the Slow Food. And I feel like if you go there, they will have more of a
definition and, and I can't quite remember what I'm getting at here for
the, for the number of years. But, um, the reason I feel like they're
important in the heritage foods is because they lend themselves to the, um
,
the non GMO. Um, that, that's the biggest thing I think the, the,
the one that most people will be able to relate themselves to, um, the
most is because they are the foods that aren't necessarily going to be the
genetically modified foods that the farmers might have on the table. And
if you grow the heritage foods, they're also the coolest ones to look at,
in my opinion, you know, they're the fun ones. They're the ones that we
really need to look out there at the farmer's market and go. Um, what is
that? I want to know more about that they have a story to them and
oftentimes they have a really neat name because of that story and that
history that they're providing, um, they don't have just a number or a
sticker or something that says like this was modified or the distinction I
should make here though is that breeding, um, is different. But
the heritage roots are obviously, they're, they're just, I don't know,
they're much more, why are they important?
I don't know. Um, this might be one, I'm not sure how to answer.
I can move on. That's ok. Yeah, let's do that because I'm not, I'm getting
, I'm stumbling over it for this part. Um That's fine. So let's talk about
a little bit about um You mentioned you were on the slow food board. No.
Um The Slow Food Southwest Arc of Taste Committee. What is that? So this
is why I shouldn't be stumbling over the heritage answer because I don't
have the, the verbage to be able to explain to you. But the slow food
Southwest um Well, the slow food arc of Taste, I should say um is a
program of slow Food, actually, not just U fa u the U the USA slow Food,
but all of Slow Food International has this program. Um It is a um program
that was designed to preserve um disappearing foods um all over the world.
Uh The USA programming in general um has just recently, I can't quite
remember the number but it's um I wanna say over
250
as of last time I looked, which was about a year ago, they've recently
boarded that many um foods to the arc of taste in order to help preserve
and promote them. Um Their campaign um is along the lines of just eat it
in order to promote them. So they talk a lot about, um
you know, we talk a lot, they work with and talk a lot with um growers
about how to grow these foods, but also then sell these foods because what
happens is a lot of these foods as I mentioned are really beautiful but
beautiful, meaning often ugly because what we're used to buying in the
grocery stores are these perfect apples, perfect tomatoes and these foods
are not
like that. They might be beautiful, but people often look at them and go,
I don't need to buy that because I don't know what that is or what I would
do with it. Um They require that extra amount of education. Um And so the
slow food um arch of taste does a lot to provide that education for the
farmer, but for the consumer as well. Um The uh what was I going to say?
Something particularly about? Oh, they don't just do plants. They also do
things like um heritage animals um that have been around for a while. Um
As well as um dare I say, I don't mean to confuse anyone processed foods.
So, foods that have been um like canned or um we recently um boarded the
um
I don't know how to describe it. It's a traditional enchilada if you will.
It's a uh it's a Maza corn tortilla. Uh I'm sorry, Maza corn patty, not
tortilla, a patty. That is not what we would normally think of as an
enchilada, but it's just more of a patty. And uh so things like that, that
are more handmade um ingredients. So, so let's um why do you think it's
important to, what do you think are the opportunities for um a sustainable
food system.
Yeah. So it's funny because I always think of opportunities and challenges
as something that could almost be the same because you look at challenges
and you go, oh no, what can we do? But they are opportunities, you know,
um
I think we have come a long way, I would say in the last 10 years um with
sustainable food systems, I think half the battle is just knowing that it
has a need, you know, getting people to realize on a common, getting
everyone to realize that
that there is a challenge and that these are the challenges and that here
, here, here are the, here are the options. Um
And then obviously from there getting people to think about more options
or more ideas or solutions and that kind of thing. So I think that
knowing that we've come this far and that now the language is less about
awareness and more about um
I guess creating solutions. Um I still think there's obviously an audience
of people who don't really understand that there isn't, you know, um
a challenge, but now that we're moving into a place where the general
public still does realize that uh there are things to be done, but they
don't quite know we can move into the messaging of and this is maybe where
the challenge is. Um What can you do? What are the simple things? Um
Recently there was a, a um
campaign, I guess done by local first Arizona and it was about three
less, more, not any less than three years ago. And it was called Shift 10%
Campaign or something like that to just shift only 10% of your buying
local. And I think that's a great thing to do. Start with those little
things that say like shift 10% of your local food purchasing or something
like that. Those are the little things that we can do to just get the
general public aware and buying local. So
I think we can do little things like that to
get people past the awareness but into actually doing um there's so much
that can be done in every part of that food system. So whatever people are
passionate about, if people are passionate about helping animals, then
let's, you know, let's talk to them about what it is that they would do to
help animals in that food system if they're passionate about helping
people in the food system, which I think is a big thing that people still
need to be aware of. I don't know that we're still thinking about our
fellow human beings in the food system. Um I think that's probably one of
the challenges. Um What, what are little things that we can do to raise
awareness, what campaigns can we do to, you know, shift 10% or whatever.
Um
I think environment is a big one. People often think of environment when
they think sustainability, we need to think more about food within that,
from my side of it. I think about food all the time. I think we need to
make sure that we think about food as a bigger part of that sustainability
term. And, um, what does that mean on a daily basis for a person at home
when they're cooking dinner or if they cook dinner? What is that, what
does that look like? Um, for the daily person going about their business?
Um, I don't know. I think those are all sort of like the little things
that I'm trying to think of. Ok. Um, so as, you know, tw, um, the, the
event is focusing on what the food system will look like in Phoenix in 24.
What are your, what are your hopes that about Phoenix in 2014? What will
happen? So, where are we at? We're in 2015, huh? I have to think about
where we're at first. Um,
right now.
So I guess I've been, I've been a part of the food system here in Phoenix
for, well, more actively a part of the food system here in Phoenix for, I
would say 10 years.
Um,
and in that 10 years, I really feel like we have got, we, we've gone a
long way. We, we've come a long way. We've tell me how,
so 10 years ago, I don't feel like there was anything when I first
enrolled in culinary school and I had to start thinking about someone I
would work for. Quiescence was really the only farm to table restaurant.
There was another one or there still is another one. Rancho Pino was
definitely another one. And her restaurant has been around for a long time.
Um,
there were other maybe little small restaurants, but for the most part, I
would say those two restaurants were the ones that really put it out there.
But it wasn't like they were putting it out there because it was a thing
and they were just trying to promote that. Um They just both believed in
it and thought they would put it on their menus that, you know, they
sourced from Xar
and it wasn't,
it wasn't even, you know, I would say even dare to say across the nation a
really big thing yet. So
when that was first sort of being put out there, I would say that Phoenix
was sort of not really aware yet of this type of thing that we needed to
be aware of. A few years later, people started to become aware of it and
it was funny because they became aware of it. I would say, I want to say
there's the foodie crowd and they became more interested in more just food
, um, not sourcing of or anything like that, but just food and there's a
big presence with that. Obviously, Yelp came around around maybe a few
years later had kind of a smashing presence, you know, kind of overtook
everything. And that timeline,
it was almost crucial that Yelp came around because it was like, people
were putting up what they thought of what was going on and it almost
forced some of these restaurants to step up their game. And with that
development, alongside social media things, Twitter and Facebook, probably
at that particular time, people were creating a buzz and I think that
all these kind of contributions force people to start thinking about where
their food is coming from, whether it's the farmer or the chef or whatever
, but they're putting it out there. And so I think the development was
during the time and we're, and we're watching it happen across the country
too and we're saying we want to be like New York or we want to be like
Portland or we want to be like whatever. And yeah, there's cool things
going on in all those places and we want to be just like them. But at the
same time, we have to be our own thing. Um
If you look back at that development, I think that we've made some
seriously cool progress. And now we're at the point where all those people
are talking about where their food comes from in terms of
farmers, not in terms of, you know, chefs or anything. And if I look back
, you know, on the two restaurants, maybe a few more than that we have so
many restaurants who,
um, want to say they're farm to table, who actually use local farmers to
source from. And we even, you know, imitation is the best form of flattery.
Have restaurants who don't but say they do, which is a challenge in
itself. But a kind of a cool one because they're trying to be maybe hip,
you know, and if that's hip and that's how we have to go about it to, to
make people recognize that that's where it needs to be right now. That's
cool. And, um, I think that if we measure that progress or if we measure
our future progress against where we were and you know, how fast that
happened, I think it will be really cool to think about 2040
in terms of food sustainability and where we need to be and a lot of
farmers have popped up since then. Um, small scale and medium scale. Um
And everybody sort of recognizes they're all coming around to recognize
just how important it is to incorporate animals into their food system or
into their, I'm sorry, animals into their farming system. And uh you know
, how incorporate, how to incorporate um
waste and, and how all those things, I think it's really cool to see the,
the growth. Um not only here in the state but all over as well. So, so
tell me what you um what policy changes think. Do you think need to be
implemented to help this movement. Um Admittedly, I am not so great with
policy. Um
So let's ask you on another front. Then what do you think is needed to
move the food sustainable system in Phoenix?
So I guess to almost as answer the opposite of the policy question, um I
almost revisit the answer that I almost gave without really meaning to. I
really think people are the answer. I think that the more people speak up
, the more people vote with their dollar. I think that
speaks so much that, that speaks volumes when we do things like that. I
think people don't realize the power of their voice. It's hard to speak up.
I think for a lot of people, I know it is for myself when I have to speak
in front of a lot of people or even write about something that I'm truly
passionate about or, or something like that knowing that I don't have any
idea who's reading it or who, what people might think of me, but
people should do that. I it really matters. Um a lot and the voting with
your dollar thing does too. It, it, it's just that is really, really super
important. Um The more you can support your fellow,
the more you can support the, the small businesses around you. But also
then um
show your purchasing dollars in some kind of stats, all of those things
that is speaking for you, that's working on your behalf, you know, while
you sleep kind of thing, it's, it's doing a lot for you and I think
whatever else people can do in order to
become part of a statistic, which sounds really horrible because I don't,
you know, I don't like that idea, but it's true if we can just vote with
our dollar and also speak up about things that we're really passionate
about or have a strong
uh opinion on. I think that's the biggest thing that people need to know
that they're a part of it and that they create the change. OK. Um I'm
gonna go a kind of a follow up question. You said the good food finder is
now moving to local first. It is part of local first, but um it will be
relaunched this. Uh I wanna say September 14th pending any, you know,
website glitches. Tell me how excited you are and what this means for um
to you. Um
So I know I've seen the website and what it will look like come September
14th. Um For me, them being able to do that.
Um I kind of said at the beginning of the interview, it was time and
financial means and things like that, that I sort of realized at some
point that I wasn't able to give anymore and for them to be able to
realize all the notions and ideas and everything I had in my head at one
point in the process or another
at the build, um, is just, um,
I don't know, it's just, it's amazing for me, able to, for me to be able
to look at it now and see those things realized. It's so amazing. It's,
I've been looking at all the features that they now have. The, the map
feature was visited at one point in my process and we couldn't do it. Um,
that's a really expensive process and, um,
to do it right. And they've been able to reinstate that and that was
something that a lot of people were asking. Why. Well, why can't I just,
you know, search five miles away or whatever? They couldn't, you know,
that's been reinstated. But that's just a small thing. Probably mostly
from my end, they've been able to incorporate now. So the directory is
farmer and food producer based, but you can filter and do searches based
on the state C SAS, the States, um, um, farmers markets, restaurants who
source from the farmers and food producers, um, all sorts of things and
people, um, will also have the option to upgrade their, um, their listing
as well. So if they want some advanced features, they can do that. So it's
really just, it's amazing. It's, I'm kind of giddy about it. So why will
this be important for the, uh, for the farmers, the new website redesign?
Yeah, sure.
I mean, it really comes back to the fact that this is something I keep,
I've always mentioned in my process of this site since this site
development or even the idea of it, um is just how cool modern technology
can be for these small businesses, whether you're a farm or food producer
or you know, you provide entertainment or whatever you do. Um Modern
technology is really great in terms of the fact or in terms of like social
media and things like that, it's free, it's free publicity for you. And if
you manage it correctly for your small business, it can really work well
on your behalf. And I think good food finder, particularly for small
businesses, small food based businesses um for Arizona residents. If you
want to reach your, it's B to B and B to C Good Food Finder. And so if you
want to reach your fellow small businesses or if you want to reach your
consumer, good food finder, does that for you. If you just, you know, put
your listing up and every now and then take a peek to make sure it's
updated or whatever, you'll reach your audiences, whether it's another
business or you're a consumer and uh there's no fee to do that. So, so
final question, um Can you share your fondest food memory?
Um Yes, I always think that if I, I always have an answer to this question
when I'm not being asked the question.
Um
So I guess the obvious answer would be to come up with something that my
grandmother had for me, but I'm gonna share something that actually
happened to me when I was living abroad and I was eating alone and, um, it
should be, you'd think this scenario would be the opposite. It would be
sad and just eating alone is not something people picture as happy and
fond. But, um, and sort of that scenario goes against everything I'm kind
of saying about my philosophies and food and things. But we had gone to
Belgium and Brussels specifically and it was pouring rain. And, um, I was
so tired and my husband always jokes with me because we did a lot of
drinking in Belgium. We were there studying, um, it was legitimate
drinking. We were studying uh craft beer. And so we had done a lot of
drinking and uh I was just so tired in Belgium and um I just wanted some
like really good food and I didn't know what that meant necessarily, but I
wanted to find some comforting food. And so I had been away from my family
now for about six months, my family, my familiarity here in Arizona and
everything and I was kind of just homesick. I wanted some like comfort
food, but I was also tired because of all the like heavy beer drinking and
stuff like that. And I walked uh down the kind of main area and I found um
, a Thai restaurant and like I said, it was pouring rain. So I was happy
to be able to get out of that and walk in and the smells hit me and it was
almost a revisit to my grandmother's cooking. It was so great to be able
to find this place. And I was really hoping that the food would be, um,
would match the environment and the ambience. So I was really just kind of
hoping for that full, that full thing, that full experience. And so I did
, I sat down and I must have really just wanted this experience because I
started to notice everything on the wall from like the little ticking cat
thing and um the pictures and everything. I ended up writing a story for
my class actually. But how much I really like this. But I ended up getting
a hot pot of
duck and some lemongrass or something. And I don't know, it ended up
tasting so much like what I, what I wanted and the flavors of home if you
will, even though again, that's not really what you think of for Arizona.
But um it tasted like what my those flavors reminding me of, of um Oma is
her name and I never mentioned that but or what we called her. And uh it
was perfect and I had a beer with it even though that didn't make any
sense at the time. But I did and um oh and the thing we also had was
shrimp crackers. And it's so funny because no one ever serves the shrimp
crackers that I want. Um, which were ones that my grandmother made and
they actually served the shrimp crackers that my grandmother made. And I
thought that was so awesome. So, that's my, and like I said, I was eating
all alone but it didn't matter. And the rain was actually perfect. I
thought the rain was part of the experience. So that's actually one of my
fonder food memories. So are there anything, is there anything I missed
anything that you'd like to cover? Anything you'd like to be known about
food sustainability or?
I don't think so. I think um I think it's great the questions that you
asked, I think I like all of them. So um I feel bad messing up the
heritage one but my mind just went like nuts on the statistics and I got
all thrown off but um no, everything is great. I think, OK, I have one
question that I just realize. Ok, you mentioned food culture. What is that
? I think it's another thing like food sustainability. I was like, what do
you really mean by that? Um
To me, food culture is
the point at which
a person's
say they um
racial background or their subculture, whatever that might be for them
ends up defining um I'm sorry, the food, their food ends up defining who
they are. So I am a super um I'm super appreciative of when say a culture
has integrated their food so much into who they are, that it's become a
part of their daily life and they almost don't even see that the, that the
food
is there, you know, that it's just so much apart. And that's how I feel
like omma was, you know, as a kid, I feel like she just didn't even know
that like I mentioned the baby food thing, She didn't even know that like
food,
there was other food, you know, the American baby food was this pure stuff
that we normally get here for kids. She just was like, no, you eat the the
steamed broccoli with bean sauce. That's what you get. I don't know that
you have teeth but like you're gonna eat this. So when food is so
integrated into a culture or even ends up defining you through nurture um
into your subculture or something like that. I think that that is what
food culture is for me, at least when it's just something that is just so
ingrained in you um or ends up becoming so part of you that for me is what
food culture is. And I, I love that. That is my favorite thing. OK. Thank
you very much.