WEBVTT 00:00:00.409 --> 00:00:03.947 Mm 00:00:03.980 --> 00:00:09.876 This is Holly Solis interviewing Seth mcmanus, right? Um For Ap on April 00:00:09.909 --> 00:00:14.755 7th, 2015 for undocumented places. Um So just to start, can you tell us 00:00:14.788 --> 00:00:18.116 where you're from and where you've grown up? Yeah. So I'm originally from 00:00:18.149 --> 00:00:21.756 Charlotte, North Carolina, the world, the metro region, but not 00:00:21.789 --> 00:00:25.747 specifically in the city. So about 30 minutes outside the city, um a small 00:00:25.780 --> 00:00:29.666 town called Rock Hill, South Carolina and um you know, people that know 00:00:29.699 --> 00:00:32.625 Charlotte geographically, it's right on the state line. So people 00:00:32.658 --> 00:00:34.936 sometimes get confused. Are you from North Count? Are you from South 00:00:34.969 --> 00:00:38.786 Carolina? But I am actually from North Count where I was born, but I grew 00:00:38.819 --> 00:00:42.847 up in South Carolina. So um yeah, I went, I lived there till I was about 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.457 18 and then I moved to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina where I went to 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.406 college, uh Costa Carolina University. It's a fouryear liberal arts 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:54.847 institution. And so I spent about five years in that area and then I moved 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:58.085 to Miami Florida for a year where I worked as a residence hall coordinator. 00:00:58.118 --> 00:01:01.726 And then I ended up here at a su about four years ago for grad school and 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.156 then um worked in housing here for three years and currently working and 00:01:05.189 --> 00:01:09.885 study abroad here at a su uh what is, how is, is living in Arizona 00:01:09.918 --> 00:01:16.105 different than living in uh Miami or in, I think. Well, Miami, Miami is a 00:01:16.138 --> 00:01:19.426 very unique place because it's pretty much an international city. So you 00:01:19.459 --> 00:01:23.566 see a lot of um people from, especially the islands in the Caribbean and 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.087 really all over the world, which was very different coming from Carolina 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.397 because a lot of times I'd go into the grocery store and be the only 00:01:29.430 --> 00:01:32.426 native English speaker in the area of town that I lived in or there was a 00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:35.936 large Haitian population. And even culturally, it was very different 00:01:35.969 --> 00:01:39.007 because, you know, if you're at a stoplight and you don't immediately go 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.766 when the light turns green, they start honking at you, kind of like in how 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:45.947 they do in Puerto Rico or, you know, your other areas in the world. Um But 00:01:45.980 --> 00:01:49.406 Arizona and South Carolina are kind of unique, I think because the 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:52.967 political environments are very similar um between the Carolinas and 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.926 Arizona. Both areas are really fast growing. And so that's changing the 00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:01.007 political dynamics within the state. But then you still have these really 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:05.799 uh conservative streaks within the states that are long standing, right? 00:02:05.832 --> 00:02:09.339 So those people who have been there for a long time tend to be like older 00:02:09.372 --> 00:02:13.200 white men that still have the political control. But the masses and the 00:02:13.233 --> 00:02:16.099 people that live within the state are changing. So you have these changing 00:02:16.132 --> 00:02:20.110 dynamics. I joke a lot that Arizona is kind of like the Carolina of the 00:02:20.143 --> 00:02:23.488 West Coast because they're always in the news, even when I did my study 00:02:23.521 --> 00:02:29.039 abroad in 2010, I was in Costa Rica and that's when SB 1070 was a huge 00:02:29.072 --> 00:02:32.952 deal here. And it was crazy because even outside of the country at that 00:02:32.985 --> 00:02:37.952 point in Costa Rica, they were still talking about SB 1070 in Arizona 00:02:37.985 --> 00:02:40.762 outside of the US. And there were so many other things going on in the 00:02:40.795 --> 00:02:43.561 world, but that's what people were talking about and they wanted to know 00:02:43.594 --> 00:02:47.463 what was going on. Like, why is this a big deal in Arizona? Why are they 00:02:47.496 --> 00:02:50.792 trying to pass this legislation? And it was interesting being outside of 00:02:50.825 --> 00:02:54.463 the country when that was happening, hearing people's take on it actually 00:02:54.496 --> 00:02:58.646 being in a, you know, a Spanish speaking and Hispanic speaking area. Um it 00:02:58.679 --> 00:03:01.755 was interesting to hear their perspectives because it actually made me 00:03:01.788 --> 00:03:05.797 understand that they are issues related to immigration in many countries 00:03:05.830 --> 00:03:09.017 around the world. Costa Rica being one of them as well because I was 00:03:09.050 --> 00:03:13.156 surprised my host mother being Costa Rican. I thought she might have a 00:03:13.189 --> 00:03:17.555 different take on it as far as I thought she might be against it because 00:03:17.588 --> 00:03:20.755 being a dark skinned woman maybe coming to the US feeling racially 00:03:20.788 --> 00:03:24.916 profiled because of a bill like that. But she actually was in support of 00:03:24.949 --> 00:03:27.696 the bill, which really surprised me. So it gave me the opportunity to kind 00:03:27.729 --> 00:03:31.876 of ask questions and learn about why she thought that that bill was a good 00:03:31.909 --> 00:03:35.927 thing for Arizona. And it come, come to find out she had an issue with a 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.406 lot of the Nicaraguans that were migrating into Costa Rica. And she, she 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:45.096 kind of related the Mexico and US relations to Nicaragua and Costa Rica as 00:03:45.129 --> 00:03:48.055 you know, Nicaraguans tend to be darker skinned as well. So you can kind 00:03:48.088 --> 00:03:52.036 of see a difference in them versus Costa Ricans and they, she kind of had 00:03:52.069 --> 00:03:56.467 a similar take on it as a lot of Americans tend to have on immigration in 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:59.396 the US. So I thought that was interesting that there was a lot of 00:03:59.429 --> 00:04:03.686 parallels even though it was a different country that I was in. Uh how was 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:07.805 your experience of studying abroad? What did you bring back from that? 00:04:07.838 --> 00:04:12.495 That made you look at immigration and everything? Did that bring? Uh was 00:04:12.528 --> 00:04:15.696 it any different when you came back? Oh, yeah, I think that's actually a 00:04:15.729 --> 00:04:18.986 really good question because I didn't think it was going to impact me the 00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:22.745 way that it did. But then when I came back from it, it really, I was only 00:04:22.778 --> 00:04:25.955 there for a month, which is a short term program, but it was really 00:04:25.988 --> 00:04:30.546 impactful because I learned a lot just by going in trial and error being 00:04:30.579 --> 00:04:33.026 in an environment that I didn't know I was going to be really 00:04:33.059 --> 00:04:36.656 uncomfortable in and I got there and learning that, you know, growing up 00:04:36.689 --> 00:04:39.851 in the South and never really having left the South, you know, flip flops 00:04:39.884 --> 00:04:42.671 are normal. You just wear that every day, you know, shorts and flip flops 00:04:42.704 --> 00:04:46.731 and boat shoes and tank tops or polos and you're good. But I wore that 00:04:46.764 --> 00:04:49.651 stuff in Costa Rica and people really looked at me weird and I had never 00:04:49.684 --> 00:04:53.520 been on the other side of that. Um I had to ride the bus to school every 00:04:53.553 --> 00:04:57.632 day. And when I got on the bus, I was wearing flip flops and people 00:04:57.665 --> 00:05:00.770 actually laughed at me, which I never had experienced that. Like I was 00:05:00.803 --> 00:05:03.132 like, wait, no, this is cool. Like how can you be laughing at me? I'm 00:05:03.165 --> 00:05:06.736 wearing rainbows. These are expensive, right? But they, they laughed at me 00:05:06.769 --> 00:05:09.356 and they kinda made fun of me. And I was also the only white guy on the 00:05:09.389 --> 00:05:13.245 bus, like American English speaking white guy. They are white Costa Ricans 00:05:13.278 --> 00:05:17.245 as well. But what they would call like Americano or gringo. And um that 00:05:17.278 --> 00:05:22.187 experience of feeling different than other people or even I found myself 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:25.765 towards the end of my time trying to assimilate to their culture which now 00:05:25.798 --> 00:05:28.836 working in study abroad, I know is actually very normal for students to do 00:05:28.869 --> 00:05:32.776 when they go abroad to try to buy clothing to then assimilate to that 00:05:32.809 --> 00:05:36.055 population that I found myself going and actually picking up like some 00:05:36.088 --> 00:05:39.926 Costa Rican trends and buying some Costa Rica branded things and trying to 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:42.906 assimilate to that culture because that was had kind of become my new 00:05:42.939 --> 00:05:46.156 normal. So when I came back to the U SI kind of brought that with me 00:05:46.189 --> 00:05:50.416 because I remember what those experiences felt like of the times that I 00:05:50.449 --> 00:05:54.687 was kind of like looked at differently or what I thought, how I thought 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.356 things should be was not how they were there. And that was OK, like I kind 00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:01.736 of learned a new way of doing a lot of things. So it kind of, it really 00:06:01.769 --> 00:06:05.145 did change the way that I look at things. Um Did you do that study abroad 00:06:05.178 --> 00:06:09.606 before you started working with Dream Zone? I did. Yeah, I did. So I did 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:13.406 that and as my senior year in undergrad and then I didn't start working 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:17.887 with Dream Zone until probably about a year and a half ago. OK. Um So how 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:21.046 did you get actually? Could you explain what Dream Zone is first? Yeah. So 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:25.486 Dream Zone is an Ally Certification program for um faculty staff and 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.796 students here at A SU is how it started. It's grown to be a lot more than 00:06:28.829 --> 00:06:34.086 that, but it um basically is trying to educate um our local community here 00:06:34.119 --> 00:06:37.687 at A U about issues facing undocumented students, but specifically 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:42.166 dreamers um in regards to how to navigate the higher education setting. So 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:45.036 a lot of times these students face a lot of the same challenges that 00:06:45.069 --> 00:06:49.620 version American college students, native born college students face, um 00:06:49.653 --> 00:06:53.471 which would be like a lot of barriers because maybe if they are the first 00:06:53.504 --> 00:06:56.401 one, they don't know what, they don't know what they don't know is what we 00:06:56.434 --> 00:06:58.890 kind of say. So they don't know what the financial aid office is. They 00:06:58.923 --> 00:07:01.822 don't know what a FASFA is. They don't know that they have an academic 00:07:01.855 --> 00:07:05.092 avis or they don't know how to register for classes. So trying to help 00:07:05.125 --> 00:07:09.620 those students navigate that. But then the other barrier is the financial 00:07:09.653 --> 00:07:15.026 piece that um undocumented students can't complete a FASFA. So um 00:07:15.059 --> 00:07:18.926 basically training staff on how to be cognizant of those issues that these 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:22.825 students are facing. And if um an undocumented person were to come out to 00:07:22.858 --> 00:07:26.697 them knowing how to address that and in the sense of supporting them, how 00:07:26.730 --> 00:07:30.116 to connect them in with resources, I think one of the most valuable things 00:07:30.149 --> 00:07:34.616 that dreams did is it created a network of allies here at a su um for 00:07:34.649 --> 00:07:38.026 people to network amongst apartments, which I thought was a really 00:07:38.059 --> 00:07:43.055 valuable resource because what can happen is if, if when disclosed in um 00:07:43.088 --> 00:07:47.526 trio program that they were undocumented, for instance, I then could be in 00:07:47.559 --> 00:07:50.546 contact when I was working in housing with the trio person. If the student 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:53.926 was ok with them, sharing that disclosure of how to navigate other areas 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:56.976 of the universities, they might could call over to their contact in the 00:07:57.009 --> 00:08:00.697 study abroad office which also completed the certification and understood 00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:04.106 um the the issues surrounding dreamers that they were facing, how to help 00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.825 them best navigate that. So it created a really strong network of allies 00:08:07.858 --> 00:08:11.395 here at ASU and it actually has grown to be so much more than that. So now 00:08:11.428 --> 00:08:15.166 it's kind of creating a national network of allies. How has it created 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:19.377 that national network? So who has reached through that? Yeah. So I think 00:08:19.410 --> 00:08:23.986 several of the facilitators have within, I guess their focuses of control 00:08:24.019 --> 00:08:27.697 have gone and kind of spread dream zone in their different areas, um 00:08:27.730 --> 00:08:31.245 attending national conferences. So Jesus Cisneros and Rodriguez, they're 00:08:31.278 --> 00:08:35.547 the original founders and they've gotten other um facilitators on board, 00:08:35.580 --> 00:08:38.726 but they still are the ones out champion at most. Um I know one of the 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:42.346 things that we worked on was Davie wanted to go to the Clinton Global 00:08:42.379 --> 00:08:47.736 Initiative University and we Jesus and I led the effort to get people out 00:08:47.769 --> 00:08:51.836 to vote at a su for it. Um Basically, the program was in what was called a 00:08:51.869 --> 00:08:55.297 sweet 16 bracket and the winner would get recognized at the conference to 00:08:55.330 --> 00:08:59.135 get to meet Bill Clinton and get the recognition and the prestige. And so 00:08:59.168 --> 00:09:03.217 we worked here to lead like a get out the vote effort to bring on 111 00:09:03.250 --> 00:09:05.787 piece was getting the awareness out about what dream song was. But the 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:08.255 other piece was, could you please submit a vote for Arizona State 00:09:08.288 --> 00:09:11.856 University for entrepreneurship for us to get this recognition? And so we 00:09:11.889 --> 00:09:14.336 all worked within our different networks. So Jesus was more on the 00:09:14.369 --> 00:09:18.025 academic side and then I was, I had housing covered and more of like uh 00:09:18.058 --> 00:09:21.765 educational outreach and student services and working with them to try to 00:09:21.798 --> 00:09:25.005 get out the vote and then also ourselves setting alarm clocks in the 00:09:25.038 --> 00:09:27.836 middle of the night to get up and vote to make sure because you could vote 00:09:27.869 --> 00:09:31.255 like multiple times. So we were just basically not sleeping there in that 00:09:31.288 --> 00:09:34.706 time and trying to get as many votes as we could um in each bracket, you 00:09:34.739 --> 00:09:37.542 know, the voting would restart. So when you would win, it would be like a 00:09:37.575 --> 00:09:41.072 24 hour bracket. And so whichever team got the most votes would move on to 00:09:41.105 --> 00:09:44.532 the next level. So each time it kept resetting, but we went on to win that 00:09:44.565 --> 00:09:47.433 , we didn't find out until they announced it at the conference. So we were 00:09:47.466 --> 00:09:50.802 like watching it and we were really excited. But then Bill Clinton was now 00:09:50.835 --> 00:09:55.032 talking about Dream zone and then you've got like 1000 college age 00:09:55.065 --> 00:09:59.933 undergraduate um, change makers basically there listening to what this is. 00:09:59.966 --> 00:10:03.127 And so I think that sparked a discussion but things like that. So going 00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:07.178 to these conferences and they went to a P A conference, I think in Hawaii 00:10:07.211 --> 00:10:10.978 and presented um things like NASA, which would be the higher education 00:10:11.011 --> 00:10:15.218 conference um networking with the universities here in Arizona. So, Nau 00:10:15.251 --> 00:10:19.289 and Tucson um getting involved with Teach for America. So kind of expanded 00:10:19.322 --> 00:10:23.737 even outside of just higher ed, but maybe into K through 12. So just using 00:10:23.770 --> 00:10:29.856 networks that you've made uh does any U and U of a have a dream zone 00:10:29.889 --> 00:10:35.356 workshop? I don't know what level they are currently. I know that they 00:10:35.389 --> 00:10:38.787 both have expressed interest in starting one. And I know that facilitators 00:10:38.820 --> 00:10:42.496 have gone up to Flagstaff to work on things and I know that there has been 00:10:42.529 --> 00:10:46.167 contact with U FA. But I think Daer and, and Jesus will probably be the 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:51.967 most versed on that. Um So what do you do for Jone? So I help facilitate 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:56.797 the four hour certification course um basically upon request. So a lot of 00:10:56.830 --> 00:11:00.846 times when they Jesus and Daer will kind of lead the structure of it as 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:04.025 far as setting up the schedule and then if there's one that needs covering 00:11:04.058 --> 00:11:06.736 a lot of times they will outreach to me to see if I'm available to help 00:11:06.769 --> 00:11:10.356 cover that. Um In my old department, I was able to use time during the 00:11:10.389 --> 00:11:14.885 work day to present. And, and basically, I had more of a flex schedule. So 00:11:14.918 --> 00:11:19.217 I was able to go a lot of times the certifications are during the work day. 00:11:19.250 --> 00:11:23.395 So they would be like maybe 8 a.m. to lunchtime or lunchtime to 4 p.m. So 00:11:23.428 --> 00:11:27.236 I was able to use my time at work to go and do that now that I'm in a more 00:11:27.269 --> 00:11:31.486 formal office setting and study abroad. And they just, the reality is, is 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:36.125 that there isn't as, it's harder to sell the value of it in study abroad 00:11:36.158 --> 00:11:39.846 because there's so many more barriers for an undocumented student to study 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:44.486 abroad than there was for them to live in housing. Um That I think I have 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:48.691 a hard time convincing the department to allow me use office time to 00:11:48.724 --> 00:11:52.032 facilitate that. So I haven't facilitated any in the last seven months 00:11:52.065 --> 00:11:56.311 because of my career change. But I would be able to if it was outside of 00:11:56.344 --> 00:12:00.510 work. But basically, if they have a session open, they will outreach to me 00:12:00.543 --> 00:12:03.831 see if I'm available to help facilitate and then I typically serve in the 00:12:03.864 --> 00:12:08.231 capacity as a co facilitator. Um But one of the dynamics I think that I do 00:12:08.264 --> 00:12:12.561 bring is um being an ally and not having been someone that was personally 00:12:12.594 --> 00:12:17.467 affected by being undocumented. Um I think I love the dynamic of 00:12:17.500 --> 00:12:21.217 presenting with Xavier or Jesus because they have very unique insights 00:12:21.250 --> 00:12:26.576 growing up in Hispanic areas. Um And you know, the ties that they have and 00:12:26.609 --> 00:12:29.135 the friends that they have are not the way that I grew up. So I think we 00:12:29.168 --> 00:12:32.677 bring very different insights into it. So I really enjoy presenting with 00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:36.467 them because I feel like I have something that I can bring to the table, 00:12:36.500 --> 00:12:39.366 that's a different perspective and I think it makes the sessions a little 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:44.287 more dynamic. Um So to be a facilitator, do you do uh research on 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:48.096 resources on the history of the movement? What exactly does that per uh 00:12:48.129 --> 00:12:53.436 pertain? So for me, I just expressed interest. Um h well, they both know 00:12:53.469 --> 00:12:57.625 me personally and they know that I am basically a news junkie. I watch the 00:12:57.658 --> 00:13:00.986 news for three hours a day and I like to read articles and I'm really 00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:05.606 interested in ideas and how like social change happens and what motivates 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:09.287 people and what's happening politically because a lot of times, a lot of 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.885 political issues are really intertwined as far as like, you know, how does 00:13:12.918 --> 00:13:17.236 the minimum wage hike tie into education cuts which then tie ins to 00:13:17.269 --> 00:13:20.576 undocumented people. All of these things are these hot topics that are 00:13:20.609 --> 00:13:24.936 going on in politics. They all seem to have uh a common root that they 00:13:24.969 --> 00:13:28.645 come from. And so I think just knowing me personally, they knew that that 00:13:28.678 --> 00:13:33.116 was something that I was really interested in and that they knew that um I 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:37.755 kind of had a level of competency because of that, that I think most 00:13:37.788 --> 00:13:41.116 people probably don't have because they're just not, it's not a hobby for 00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:44.936 them as much as it as it is for me. But for me, their preparation was, um 00:13:44.969 --> 00:13:48.645 , getting the information that they had built. So they built dreams on it 00:13:48.678 --> 00:13:52.486 was their baby. And then they kind of showed me what they had and then I 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.025 kind of even gave feedback on what I thought. So, um, like one of the 00:13:56.058 --> 00:13:59.645 things, they have a vocabulary section and um one of the things that I 00:13:59.678 --> 00:14:02.807 noticed wasn't on there that I actually heard tossed around a lot in 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:07.145 politics was this term like sanctuary cities. And so um what that is, is 00:14:07.178 --> 00:14:11.946 actually um cities that contrary to federal or state law, try to create 00:14:11.979 --> 00:14:15.866 environments that are more welcoming for undocumented people. So and it, 00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:19.717 it can sometimes can be used in a pejorative way I think is like, oh, 00:14:19.750 --> 00:14:22.736 there's a sanctuary city, we don't want to be like Los Angeles, they're a 00:14:22.769 --> 00:14:28.086 sanctuary city, they condone the, you know, elite, these illegals coming 00:14:28.119 --> 00:14:31.616 into the country and using government benefits and they, they remove 00:14:31.649 --> 00:14:34.787 barriers for undocumented people. So therefore, people that are 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:38.037 undocumented, migrate to those cities because it's a more welcoming 00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:41.287 environment versus a hostile environment which some states try to create, 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.356 to drive undocumented people. So that was an example of something that I 00:14:44.389 --> 00:14:47.686 noticed that was missing that I tried to um like, oh, have you all thought 00:14:47.719 --> 00:14:50.206 about adding this? But a lot of it was, they went through and they were 00:14:50.239 --> 00:14:53.366 like, these are the things that we have in the powerpoint. Let's talk 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.206 about slides that we can talk about. Which, what will you talk about? What 00:14:56.239 --> 00:14:59.186 will I talk about? And then some of the things I wasn't aware of. So it 00:14:59.219 --> 00:15:02.446 did require a little bit of research on my part just reading them. So um 00:15:02.479 --> 00:15:06.787 the political things I knew more so, but then the student narratives and 00:15:06.820 --> 00:15:10.167 learning um some about the undocumented um panel that they work with where 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.596 they bring in um undocumented students, typically about 12 or three of 00:15:13.629 --> 00:15:18.467 them um to speak to the group um getting to know them personally and, and 00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:21.186 understanding their stories and kind of how to coordinate that although 00:15:21.219 --> 00:15:24.525 they typically do coordinate that, but it's nice knowing them by name when 00:15:24.558 --> 00:15:30.936 I show up or having a, a history with them. Um So who is Dream zone for? 00:15:30.969 --> 00:15:37.037 Exactly. Um Well, I think it's a, a very inclusive uh certification course. 00:15:37.070 --> 00:15:40.946 So there's no one that it would not be for. Um I think it's, it has 00:15:40.979 --> 00:15:44.265 something for everyone in it. That's one of the things that drew me to it. 00:15:44.298 --> 00:15:47.775 Um I was actually talking about this last night to Daer. I, I was telling 00:15:47.808 --> 00:15:52.275 him one of the things I really love because he was asking how do you reach 00:15:52.308 --> 00:15:56.635 people that don't really care about an issue? Right? Like they think that 00:15:56.668 --> 00:16:00.066 their way of thinking is right. And they don't really are open to new 00:16:00.099 --> 00:16:02.726 information. And that's one of the things that I think is really great 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:06.275 about dream zone is there are a lot of people that finish dream zone and 00:16:06.308 --> 00:16:09.956 they come in thinking one way and they may not leave agreeing with what 00:16:09.989 --> 00:16:13.217 they've heard. Um Because all we do is try to present the information to 00:16:13.250 --> 00:16:16.206 them in an unbiased way. We try to make it about student success and they 00:16:16.239 --> 00:16:19.255 can do what they want with it. It's about creating safe environments for 00:16:19.288 --> 00:16:24.096 those students. But I think a lot of times you can't help but see and 00:16:24.129 --> 00:16:26.976 sense the political elements as they tie into it, especially when we get 00:16:27.009 --> 00:16:30.316 into the political environment surrounding things like deferred action for 00:16:30.349 --> 00:16:34.025 childhood arrivals, DACA um or some of the legislations, even, you know, 00:16:34.058 --> 00:16:37.657 South Canada has some of the toughest in the nation. So being from there 00:16:37.690 --> 00:16:41.917 and then I can kind of share my experience. But um I think it's really for 00:16:41.950 --> 00:16:46.797 anybody because the actual certification, I feel like it changes the way 00:16:46.830 --> 00:16:49.586 that people think regardless of where they're coming from. So for instance 00:16:49.619 --> 00:16:53.236 , one of the times that Jesus led a session and I wasn't even at this 00:16:53.269 --> 00:16:56.515 session, but it stuck with me and he told me the story that um someone 00:16:56.548 --> 00:17:00.486 from the, the Veteran Center came in and they were trying to get certified 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:05.996 and just for work in the office and they went in and when she left, she's 00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:09.516 like, I just wanna let you know that like this really impacted me and um 00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:12.006 me and my husband are gonna go home and have a talk about this tonight 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.996 because it changed the way that I thought about immigration in Arizona 00:17:15.029 --> 00:17:18.137 because there, there's so much more to it than what I was thinking about. 00:17:18.170 --> 00:17:22.347 There's more elements and it's more complex than what I had originally 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:26.311 thought. And so I think that dream zone in that regard is a really great 00:17:26.344 --> 00:17:31.551 um tool for serving as an agent of change here to, to change the way that 00:17:31.584 --> 00:17:34.732 people think about an issue. And if nothing else to get them questioning 00:17:34.765 --> 00:17:37.772 what they think about it because the goal isn't to like indoctrinate them 00:17:37.805 --> 00:17:41.660 and make them agree with everything that we think. Um But it's more along 00:17:41.693 --> 00:17:44.492 the lines of this is kind of the environment right now. And what do you 00:17:44.525 --> 00:17:47.690 think about this and how do we remove some of these barriers and create 00:17:47.723 --> 00:17:52.686 safer spaces for students? So I think in that way, it's very inclusive and 00:17:52.719 --> 00:17:55.147 we have students that come as well. So a lot of times we have students 00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:57.926 that are really passionate about the calls and they're not, they're not 00:17:57.959 --> 00:18:00.946 student leaders, they're not employees, they're not faculty or staff, but 00:18:00.979 --> 00:18:04.107 they just want to participate and they're always welcome to and, and like 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:08.926 I said, we're trying to expand it outside of just um a su so not just to 00:18:08.959 --> 00:18:13.686 other four year institutions but also um community colleges in the works. 00:18:13.719 --> 00:18:17.496 Um There is some debate right now, I think even among stream zone of the 00:18:17.529 --> 00:18:21.535 direction because we are trying to spread so much. And then it's like, 00:18:21.568 --> 00:18:25.815 well, what are our common goals? What are, what is kind of our audience of 00:18:25.848 --> 00:18:29.476 who we really want to be reaching? Um So that's actually a discussion. I 00:18:29.509 --> 00:18:32.575 think that's going on right now with the future of Dream Zone because it 00:18:32.608 --> 00:18:36.910 doesn't really have a set home here at a su because it was started by 00:18:36.943 --> 00:18:41.022 students and students come and go and we graduate and people that work at 00:18:41.055 --> 00:18:44.180 the university move on to new career path. So I think right now that is 00:18:44.213 --> 00:18:47.561 part of the discussion is kind of what is the common purpose? Who are we 00:18:47.594 --> 00:18:50.472 gonna really target and serve? Although we're open to everyone, what is 00:18:50.505 --> 00:18:54.242 our target audience moving forward? And where is the home of Dream Zone? 00:18:54.275 --> 00:19:01.476 Kind of um what resources do you uh give to undocumented students? Do you 00:19:01.509 --> 00:19:07.597 do that or is it just the certification for faculty and staff? Um I know 00:19:07.630 --> 00:19:12.127 that we are, that's been another debate. I think within as far as what the 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.467 roll of dreams on is, of course, like I said, we're open to everyone and I 00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:19.387 think it has kind of morphed into that support. For undocumented students 00:19:19.420 --> 00:19:23.217 because they see that as a visible support system here at a SU and 00:19:23.250 --> 00:19:27.857 especially in a place where there aren't a lot of visible support networks. 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.357 I think that there have been a lot of undocumented students that have 00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:33.825 kind of lashed onto it. But on the flip side of that, because of the 00:19:33.858 --> 00:19:37.835 environment here in Arizona surrounding undocumented students, the reality 00:19:37.868 --> 00:19:42.647 is there aren't that many at a SU I think I was um hearing that there was 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:46.647 about 50 how they retrieved that data was just looking at students that 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.857 graduated from a su high schools that were paying out of state tuition. Um 00:19:50.890 --> 00:19:54.026 was the only metric right now. So there could be more than that, but that 00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:58.006 was the metric that they were using. So out of 75 80,000 enrolled students 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:03.085 only 50. So it is serving as for those 58 a support network. But I think a 00:20:03.118 --> 00:20:05.926 lot of times those students will serve on our panel if they feel 00:20:05.959 --> 00:20:09.936 comfortable doing that. But um they'll develop personal relationships with 00:20:09.969 --> 00:20:12.857 some of the facilitators and we kind of will take on more of like a 00:20:12.890 --> 00:20:16.926 mentorship role or I know there's one student that we've helped. Um She's 00:20:16.959 --> 00:20:19.686 actually because she's paying out of state tuition even though she is a 00:20:19.719 --> 00:20:23.486 high school graduate of Arizona and grew up in Arizona. Um because of her 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.467 undocumented status, even though she's a honors student in Barrett, she's 00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:30.815 paying out of state tuition. And um, so she's paying double and she 00:20:30.848 --> 00:20:34.467 doesn't have a fast, she doesn't, she's not eligible for any student loans. 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.486 And so, um one of the things that we've done is try to help her raise 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.406 funds, find money in different apartments in the university that can be 00:20:40.439 --> 00:20:44.367 eligible for scholarships that may not require a social security number, 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.656 um private scholarships, things like that and even sometimes donating some 00:20:47.689 --> 00:20:51.776 of our own money to try to help her reach that goal. So um I think more 00:20:51.809 --> 00:20:56.387 informal relationships, but um definitely creating that formal network as 00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:59.825 well because we have the online database. So you students can actually 00:20:59.858 --> 00:21:04.127 search online and find a name of someone in each department that is Dream 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.597 Zone certified. So aside from just the placard, there's the electronic 00:21:07.630 --> 00:21:13.295 resource of being able to get online and search for that. Um is the the 00:21:13.328 --> 00:21:18.377 story of um the young lady who's paying out of state tuition. Is that 00:21:18.410 --> 00:21:24.226 typical of most is her story typical of most students that you've met? I 00:21:24.259 --> 00:21:28.585 think. Well, it is the ones that I've met, but that's a discussion right 00:21:28.618 --> 00:21:34.107 now, even within I think the the ally and uh community for undocumented 00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:38.637 students is because there's now there's these, these like stereotypical 00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:41.877 dreamers, which is kind of what's happened is because people are trying to 00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:46.127 create change and to create discussion around this topic, people have gone 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:49.377 and kind of picked the cream of the crop of the dreamers. And so this 00:21:49.410 --> 00:21:53.075 perception has kind of been created of like, oh, well, all of these 00:21:53.108 --> 00:21:56.013 dreamers, they're all like a students and they all want to be done, 00:21:56.046 --> 00:21:59.503 doctors and lawyers and engineers and they are being, you know, they're 00:21:59.536 --> 00:22:01.513 having to pay out of state tuition and these are all the barriers. But the 00:22:01.546 --> 00:22:05.024 reality is that there are some of everyone, right. There's what I students 00:22:05.057 --> 00:22:08.403 like myself, that would be considered average, you know, a 3.0 student or 00:22:08.436 --> 00:22:11.323 , you know, even students that just want to go to community college, they 00:22:11.356 --> 00:22:14.563 may not want to go to a four year institution, but there are tons of 00:22:14.596 --> 00:22:18.534 students out there. It's really shocking to me because when I think about 00:22:18.567 --> 00:22:23.071 the fact of even the barriers that they face, you know, as far as, um, 00:22:23.104 --> 00:22:26.509 talking with a lot of the, the undocumented students that I've met when I 00:22:26.542 --> 00:22:29.159 even found, found out and I meet them and they tell me that they just 00:22:29.192 --> 00:22:32.970 finished two years at the community college, I think. Wow. Like that's 00:22:33.003 --> 00:22:35.640 pretty amazing because I don't know that I could have done that. You know 00:22:35.673 --> 00:22:39.560 , I think about, uh, I've, I've completed graduate school but if I had to 00:22:39.593 --> 00:22:43.429 pay and work two jobs, pay out of state tuition and go to a community 00:22:43.462 --> 00:22:46.467 college while trying to support my family and trying to do all these other 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:49.547 things that I barriers, I didn't have, I don't know that I could have done 00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:52.806 it. So I have a lot of respect for them when I, when I find that out. But 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.658 I think that the undocumented undocumented experience in Arizona, 00:22:56.691 --> 00:23:01.066 particularly, um and in many states is unique, but it's gonna vary from 00:23:01.099 --> 00:23:04.717 state to state because state policies dictate the education policy. So 00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:07.697 California, even though they're right next door to us has a very different 00:23:07.730 --> 00:23:12.647 policy on undocumented students versus what Arizona is doing. Um But I do 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:16.045 find it typical that a lot of dreamers that I meet are really hard working. 00:23:16.078 --> 00:23:19.815 I think there could be some bias in that because I work in the higher ed 00:23:19.848 --> 00:23:22.426 setting. So I'm gonna be exposed to students that are trying to pursue 00:23:22.459 --> 00:23:25.857 higher education here at a su versus when I go into Phoenix and I'm 00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:30.016 volunteering with um organizations for undocumented people there. I'm 00:23:30.049 --> 00:23:33.347 meeting a completely different demographic of people that may not have 00:23:33.380 --> 00:23:37.936 even thought or have access to higher education. So I, I guess I recognize 00:23:37.969 --> 00:23:41.147 the bias because I'm meeting them in a university setting. But the ones 00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:44.746 that I do meet here are really, really driven and I mean, I think that's 00:23:44.779 --> 00:23:48.335 kind of the the heartbreaking part of the whole thing, right is that 00:23:48.368 --> 00:23:51.976 you're meeting these students and they are doing everything they 00:23:52.009 --> 00:23:57.956 absolutely can do to be successful, but they're not able to achieve what 00:23:57.989 --> 00:24:01.217 they're trying to achieve. So I think it's kind of put in people's heads 00:24:01.250 --> 00:24:04.137 this American mentality. Well, you can be anything you want to be. Right. 00:24:04.170 --> 00:24:07.085 Or, you know, like, there's no, nothing can ever stop you if you have a 00:24:07.118 --> 00:24:10.156 goal. But for these students, when you talk to them, they, they, they're 00:24:10.189 --> 00:24:13.666 at a dead end, you know, they've done literally everything they absolutely 00:24:13.699 --> 00:24:16.996 can do. They're like doing car washes on the weekend. They're fundraising. 00:24:17.029 --> 00:24:19.607 They're, they're applying to every scholarship they can find, they're 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:22.397 networking. They're making straight A's in the courses that they're in. 00:24:22.430 --> 00:24:24.996 They've done, they're working a job on the side, they're doing all of 00:24:25.029 --> 00:24:29.256 these things and they still just the, their goal they can't get there. 00:24:29.289 --> 00:24:33.637 Right. So, even if they graduate, there was um a student in a documentary 00:24:33.670 --> 00:24:38.107 was an, a SU student and he had graduated from a su with a degree in 00:24:38.140 --> 00:24:42.065 engineering. So high demand field which most students that they graduated 00:24:42.098 --> 00:24:45.397 and they were a citizen would graduate and make probably at least 70,000 a 00:24:45.430 --> 00:24:49.526 year, a pretty decent salary. Um But this, this guy had graduated, he was 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:53.535 undocumented and he was here on a um that wasn't funded through the state. 00:24:53.568 --> 00:24:57.156 So he was able to pay for his whole education here for all four years and 00:24:57.189 --> 00:25:01.045 graduated with honors with an engineering degree which is really hard to 00:25:01.078 --> 00:25:04.897 do. If you know anyone in engineering, it's a really difficult um um field 00:25:04.930 --> 00:25:08.486 to go into, I think and to make grades like that and graduate. And he 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:12.897 graduated from a su has this degree and wants to contribute but can't 00:25:12.930 --> 00:25:17.535 because he's, he's undocumented. So no engineering firm is gonna hire him. 00:25:17.568 --> 00:25:21.156 And right now, according to the documentary, after a year or two out, he 00:25:21.189 --> 00:25:26.196 was um working with his dad doing brick masonry um in Mesa. So he's out 00:25:26.229 --> 00:25:29.016 building houses and stuck going to houses with his engineering degree 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:33.956 simply because he's not documented and there's no path, there's no pathway 00:25:33.989 --> 00:25:36.825 for him. So that's the frustrating thing is listening to these students. 00:25:36.858 --> 00:25:40.206 There's, I'm a solution driven person. So I want to sit down with these 00:25:40.239 --> 00:25:43.535 students and try to help them. But I think that's the really hard part is 00:25:43.568 --> 00:25:47.127 that a lot of the students that I do meet here at a su um that are doing 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.045 everything they possibly can do to be successful and they want to 00:25:50.078 --> 00:25:52.795 contribute and they want to be a part of, of the country and they want to 00:25:52.828 --> 00:25:56.825 do something with their lives. Um That's bigger than just themselves and 00:25:56.858 --> 00:26:00.097 they're meeting all these barriers and they're literally at a dead end. 00:26:00.130 --> 00:26:03.246 But I think talking with them and getting to know them is one of the 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.456 things that I've used to really try to influence people that I know. Um 00:26:07.489 --> 00:26:10.936 even just family members of mine coming from a really conservative family. 00:26:10.969 --> 00:26:14.456 Um I take those stories home with me, you know, and I kind of put them 00:26:14.489 --> 00:26:18.535 out there and I question people because there are a lot of misconceptions 00:26:18.568 --> 00:26:23.467 um about undocumented people a lot. And I try to dispel them by using some 00:26:23.500 --> 00:26:28.107 of those stories. Um because it, even though I, like I said, I didn't grow 00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:30.976 up knowing them. Now it is personal to me because I've met them and I've 00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:34.196 heard their story and I want people to know that they're there, you know 00:26:34.229 --> 00:26:37.186 that they, cause a lot of times you would walk past them because they're 00:26:37.219 --> 00:26:41.315 an invisible population and you wouldn't even know that. So I do try to um 00:26:41.348 --> 00:26:45.377 get their stories out as, as much as I can. So that people, I think more 00:26:45.410 --> 00:26:48.226 along the lines of know that they're there because I don't know that I 00:26:48.259 --> 00:26:52.877 would have if I hadn't have met them. Um because I, I immigration in 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:58.906 general is, is really tricky. Um And it's funny, my sister just married um 00:26:58.939 --> 00:27:03.065 a, a guy from London from Britain and they're going through the, the 00:27:03.098 --> 00:27:06.256 immigration process and it was a great time for me to be able to have a 00:27:06.289 --> 00:27:10.416 conversation with my family about immigration as it relates to documented 00:27:10.449 --> 00:27:14.085 people, but specifically dreamers because they're all they've done is 00:27:14.118 --> 00:27:17.347 complain about the process and it really hit a nerve with me because I'm 00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:21.555 like, wow, like what a privilege you have to come from Europe to come from 00:27:21.588 --> 00:27:25.585 England of all places um to be white to be able to immigrate here and just 00:27:25.618 --> 00:27:29.023 assimilate to the culture. Have people want you here, right? You go out in 00:27:29.056 --> 00:27:32.191 public, people love your accent. They welcome you. But imagine if you had 00:27:32.224 --> 00:27:36.303 been from Mexico or even from Central or South America and you had um 00:27:36.336 --> 00:27:39.773 married my sister and you now are Spanish speaking, people would probably 00:27:39.806 --> 00:27:42.982 say things like go back to Mexico would be very unwelcoming to you. So 00:27:43.015 --> 00:27:45.912 what a privilege you have to come here and on top of that to be able to 00:27:45.945 --> 00:27:50.472 marry an American. And so when he complains, I remind him, you're on the 00:27:50.505 --> 00:27:54.222 fast track. So in the scheme of immigration to marry an American and be 00:27:54.255 --> 00:27:57.438 from Europe. Wow, that's the quickest way to do it. So he's complaining 00:27:57.471 --> 00:28:01.168 about a six month process or all the forms he has to fill out or, you know 00:28:01.201 --> 00:28:05.799 , the fact that it cost him $2000. And I think about um a lot of Hispanics 00:28:05.832 --> 00:28:08.948 that I know that are going through the process and they're paying way 00:28:08.981 --> 00:28:11.928 beyond that. They're waiting way longer, they're filling out way more 00:28:11.961 --> 00:28:15.278 forms and they're being treated very differently. So I think because of 00:28:15.311 --> 00:28:18.838 that, because of what's happened with my sister and who she married, it's 00:28:18.871 --> 00:28:22.436 created a dialogue in my family about immigration. 00:28:22.469 --> 00:28:28.656 I probably got way off from your question. Um So uh just to go back just a 00:28:28.689 --> 00:28:33.035 little bit. Um Do you uh either help out or do you attend any other 00:28:33.068 --> 00:28:39.696 organizations in um the area that deal with undocumented youth? Um Not as 00:28:39.729 --> 00:28:44.916 much as I would like. Um I was, I've been to an organization called Quit, 00:28:44.949 --> 00:28:49.967 um which is for queer undocumented um people in the Phoenix area, like a 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:55.637 local chapter. Um But I was not able because of time constraints in my job 00:28:55.670 --> 00:28:58.756 when I was in housing, I had a lot of nontraditional hours. So I haven't 00:28:58.789 --> 00:29:02.756 been able to connect in as much as I would like. So it's pretty much right 00:29:02.789 --> 00:29:07.706 now just dream zone. And then um what I know about quip through Jesus and 00:29:07.739 --> 00:29:10.486 because they're both really involved with that organization and they're 00:29:10.519 --> 00:29:14.776 more about immigrant rights as a whole. So more public policy and things 00:29:14.809 --> 00:29:20.107 like that. But um I try to serve in a different capacity, I guess, more 00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:26.016 informally um by advocating like within my, like my job here at a su and 00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:29.717 within different department networks that I have. Um for example, one of 00:29:29.750 --> 00:29:32.666 the things that I've done so it's not a formal organization. But through 00:29:32.699 --> 00:29:37.022 my job, an opportunity came along to attend a webinar on how to support 00:29:37.055 --> 00:29:40.200 undocumented students in the field of study abroad. So then I was able to 00:29:40.233 --> 00:29:44.031 kind of tie it back into my job and serve as an ally in my position um 00:29:44.064 --> 00:29:48.950 without it seeming political, right? Um And having relevance. So I had 00:29:48.983 --> 00:29:51.930 requested to attend the webinar. It was actually over lunch. So it wasn't 00:29:51.963 --> 00:29:54.351 an issue. They were like, sure, of course, I go find out what other study 00:29:54.384 --> 00:29:57.535 abroad offices are doing. And so actually found out that University of 00:29:57.568 --> 00:30:02.637 Texas Austin has um actual, they have listed a section four dreamers and a 00:30:02.670 --> 00:30:05.256 documented students to study abroad on their website. So talking about 00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:09.285 that visi visible support element and they talked about the barriers and 00:30:09.318 --> 00:30:11.486 how they've helped students and the fact that they have had an 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.847 undocumented student study abroad and how they were able to do that. So 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:19.416 the student actually had to be documented or um have a legal like a 00:30:19.449 --> 00:30:24.936 deferred action status to be able to go. Um but they talked about the 00:30:24.969 --> 00:30:28.526 unique experience of being a documented student and a DACA recipient 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.456 recipient and going abroad and that visible support piece. So basically, I 00:30:32.489 --> 00:30:35.436 took a lot of, a lot away from that hour and a half webinar and I brought 00:30:35.469 --> 00:30:38.835 that back to my department and we're kind of in discussions now because 00:30:38.868 --> 00:30:41.946 it's something that I'm trying to move forward. Um We're about to unveil a 00:30:41.979 --> 00:30:45.967 new website. I don't have it on there yet, but I'm hopeful that I can 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.055 convince the director that it is something important to have because I 00:30:49.088 --> 00:30:52.996 think um being the size of a U A she really wants, they say they want to 00:30:53.029 --> 00:30:55.795 be on the cutting edge of things. So I tried to tell them like if you want 00:30:55.828 --> 00:30:58.696 to be innovative and you want to be on the cutting edge, this is where you 00:30:58.729 --> 00:31:01.696 need to go. This is one area that needs to be addressed and have that 00:31:01.729 --> 00:31:05.166 visible support out there for those students. Um Because visibility is so 00:31:05.199 --> 00:31:08.656 big when you're dealing with an invisible population, you don't know who 00:31:08.689 --> 00:31:11.516 those students are. So you need to be very visible so that they can see 00:31:11.549 --> 00:31:14.226 you because you're not going to be able to go and find them. And so that's 00:31:14.259 --> 00:31:18.305 kind of what I'm trying to relate to them that um you know, we have LGBT Q 00:31:18.338 --> 00:31:20.867 students on there, we have the veterans section, we have a online section 00:31:20.900 --> 00:31:24.506 . I think it's just a natural fit to then have the dreamers or an 00:31:24.539 --> 00:31:28.467 undocumented student section on there and if nothing else for them to, to 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:32.026 have that information available, um But hopefully so that they can connect 00:31:32.059 --> 00:31:36.107 in with staff as well. Um And we can connect them to other resources using 00:31:36.140 --> 00:31:44.140 that network. Um That's right. So you said that you, um so have you, have 00:31:44.368 --> 00:31:50.117 you hit any really big barriers trying to uh get your office to start 00:31:50.150 --> 00:31:52.585 doing that? I know you said that you're trying to convince somebody that 00:31:52.618 --> 00:31:58.387 were there any big barriers? II I think it's hard and study abroad because 00:31:58.420 --> 00:32:03.726 we, the answer from administration has been um I'll leave it kind of 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.717 ambiguous because I want to keep my job. But um the answer for 00:32:06.750 --> 00:32:10.397 administration has, has been more along the lines of that. We don't have 00:32:10.430 --> 00:32:14.545 undocumented students studying abroad because you have to have a pass us 00:32:14.578 --> 00:32:18.266 passport or if you have a passport from another country, you have to have 00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:22.776 a visa. So there's a, it's a process that would be nearly impossible for 00:32:22.809 --> 00:32:27.041 undocumented student until DACA came along, which was in, uh you know, I 00:32:27.074 --> 00:32:31.531 think summer of 2012, but even that was an executive action. So it's 00:32:31.564 --> 00:32:35.371 political, it could change depending on who wins the presidency next and 00:32:35.404 --> 00:32:39.222 what their vision is for that process, it only lasts every, it only lasts 00:32:39.255 --> 00:32:43.342 for two years. So I think the discussion prior to DACA was we're not 00:32:43.375 --> 00:32:49.045 serving this population because of DACA. Um it now is possible technically 00:32:49.078 --> 00:32:52.206 for those students to study abroad, but it's not something they're 00:32:52.239 --> 00:32:55.647 different than our other populations for study abroad because we wouldn't 00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:59.956 be specifically targeting them. Um for documented students. It would kind 00:32:59.989 --> 00:33:03.456 of be like, oh, you need to study abroad for your academic program. Well, 00:33:03.489 --> 00:33:06.436 then the first question will be, is there anything you could do to fulfill 00:33:06.469 --> 00:33:09.107 that requirement without going abroad? Because the advice from 00:33:09.140 --> 00:33:12.746 institutions that are helping uh DACA recipients is that we should not be 00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:15.107 encouraging the students because there is a risk that they may not be able 00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:18.186 to get back in the country because as with a lot of things it kind of 00:33:18.219 --> 00:33:22.285 depends on who you run into when you're going through immigration. So some 00:33:22.318 --> 00:33:25.988 student have no issue and some can get detained or some may have issues. 00:33:26.021 --> 00:33:29.469 Um because the, the the people that they're, they're going through the 00:33:29.502 --> 00:33:33.310 process with may or may not be aware of document are being documented and 00:33:33.343 --> 00:33:37.469 what that process is. And they actually have to apply for another special 00:33:37.502 --> 00:33:42.119 form. The name escapes me at the moment, but they have to apply before 00:33:42.152 --> 00:33:45.149 they leave to be able to re enter and they may not know what that form is. 00:33:45.182 --> 00:33:48.222 So there's still a lot of barriers so they still don't want to target 00:33:48.255 --> 00:33:51.342 necessarily undocumented students as a population to encourage to go 00:33:51.375 --> 00:33:54.722 abroad. But more along the lines of to have those resources there, if an 00:33:54.755 --> 00:33:57.832 undocumented student walks in the office and they know they want to study 00:33:57.865 --> 00:34:00.082 abroad and that's what they want to do and they understand the risk 00:34:00.115 --> 00:34:03.773 associated with it. We then have the resources to serve that population. 00:34:03.806 --> 00:34:06.632 So it's, it's different than other students where we're really out there 00:34:06.665 --> 00:34:09.983 trying to encourage all students to have this experience and go abroad and 00:34:10.016 --> 00:34:14.385 find scholarships and find a way to make it happen. Um But I think that 00:34:14.418 --> 00:34:18.287 the main barrier is that prior to DACA, we weren't serving those students. 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.456 And so I think in the leadership size as well, if you're doing this on 00:34:21.489 --> 00:34:25.336 the clock, right, so to speak, we're investing resources for our 00:34:25.369 --> 00:34:28.646 department into this and resources we need to be using those wisely, 00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.615 especially with the, I guess the political environment around education 00:34:31.648 --> 00:34:35.936 and budget cuts and, you know, sometimes the vilification of education, 00:34:35.969 --> 00:34:41.394 you know, and the efficiencies of it. So I think we're being uh 00:34:41.427 --> 00:34:44.874 more cognizant of how we spend our time during the work day. So to take a 00:34:44.907 --> 00:34:48.854 half a day out of the office to go work on something that is not going to 00:34:48.887 --> 00:34:52.816 have an impact to increase our enrollment numbers or to serve students at 00:34:52.849 --> 00:34:56.256 issue that are studying involved or potentially going. I think that's kind 00:34:56.289 --> 00:35:01.467 of the thought process behind that. Um But I think now that DACA is here, 00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:06.146 I, I went to our director and I, I laid out and I said, look like UT 00:35:06.179 --> 00:35:09.787 Austin has all these great resources for dreamers. Why? What's the, why 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:13.396 can we not do that? So I think it's more, it was a more of a passive 00:35:13.429 --> 00:35:17.017 discussion. So it was in a formal one. So we haven't gotten a direct 00:35:17.050 --> 00:35:20.227 answer yet or talked about how to move forward on that. But it's something 00:35:20.260 --> 00:35:23.827 that, you know, a lot of times in the summer is when we do our evaluations 00:35:23.860 --> 00:35:27.856 as far as like where the department is and strategic vision and plan and 00:35:27.889 --> 00:35:30.796 things like that. I think that's gonna be a good time to discuss that the 00:35:30.829 --> 00:35:35.405 webinar was only about a month or two ago. So um we haven't had time 00:35:35.438 --> 00:35:39.247 really to implement those changes. So when summer rolls around, I'm hoping 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:43.655 that we can at least have a dialogue about it and, and understand um why 00:35:43.688 --> 00:35:47.247 it can be important. And I'm going to try to help people in my office see 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.916 the value of it because I think that that is sometimes the challenge is 00:35:50.949 --> 00:35:56.095 helping um departments see the long term value in this because a lot of 00:35:56.128 --> 00:35:59.675 times departments have a lot of strategic visions and there's just not, 00:35:59.708 --> 00:36:03.077 there's a limited amount of resources and a lot of goals that they want to 00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:07.217 achieve. And so they have to find a way to do a lot with a little. And I 00:36:07.250 --> 00:36:10.236 think that that's the kind of the debate amongst a lot of departments, not 00:36:10.269 --> 00:36:14.557 just minus, how do we do a lot with a little in the sense of like where do 00:36:14.590 --> 00:36:18.936 dreamers fit into that? Well, we have 500 students in another population 00:36:18.969 --> 00:36:22.506 that need to be served and we might be serving one or two students. So is 00:36:22.539 --> 00:36:25.876 this resource is well spent? So I think that's more the challenge is 00:36:25.909 --> 00:36:33.436 convincing um departments that there is value in it. Um Have you had any 00:36:33.469 --> 00:36:36.836 undocumented students come in and ask about study abroad at all? I have 00:36:36.869 --> 00:36:41.405 not. No, to me, I've only been in the role about seven months. So and I 00:36:41.438 --> 00:36:44.896 think it goes back to that visible support piece So I think if the office 00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:49.557 is not visibly supportive, I think there are the preconceived notions that 00:36:49.590 --> 00:36:52.956 if I'm undocumented, I'm lucky to even be here. Maybe this is the mindset 00:36:52.989 --> 00:36:56.146 , right. I'm fortunate to be here. I don't want to leave because, I mean, 00:36:56.179 --> 00:37:00.287 but we get back in, that's a huge risk for um any undocumented person I 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.316 think. And speaking with a lot of them, a lot of them live in fear already 00:37:03.349 --> 00:37:07.885 here. So the thought of doing anything extra and the other piece of that 00:37:07.918 --> 00:37:11.666 is um like I was saying about first generation students or low income, low 00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:16.086 ses students, low socio-economic status is that a lot of times they, I 00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:19.537 think will feel remorseful for going abroad because they're already having 00:37:19.570 --> 00:37:22.477 trouble affording that out of state tuition. So the thought of studying 00:37:22.510 --> 00:37:27.057 abroad and that perceived notion of an expensive price tag or even though 00:37:27.090 --> 00:37:30.066 that may or may not be true, we have low cost options that are no 00:37:30.099 --> 00:37:34.186 different than their tuition here. Um But that preconceived notion of 00:37:34.219 --> 00:37:38.247 study abroad is a luxury. Um And I, I think one of the things that they 00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:41.227 have worked on in the study abroad office though is um in our new 00:37:41.260 --> 00:37:45.316 marketing materials, make sure that we are including a lot of um not just 00:37:45.349 --> 00:37:49.061 ethnic diversity, but diversity and experience and people and backgrounds 00:37:49.094 --> 00:37:52.570 and majors. And I think all of those are starting the conversation about 00:37:52.603 --> 00:37:55.622 that because I think the other piece of it is besides the visible support 00:37:55.655 --> 00:37:59.811 is seeing someone that looks like you on an advertisement for something 00:37:59.844 --> 00:38:02.541 like that. I think that sometimes even those subliminal messages can be 00:38:02.574 --> 00:38:07.967 really powerful. Um because even sometimes on my role, I, when we do our 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:11.876 orientations, I look around the room and I see a lot of Caucasian students 00:38:11.909 --> 00:38:15.686 and when I think about the makeup of the state of Arizona being over 30% 00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:20.997 Hispanic, it is something that it just gets me thinking like, are we 00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:25.236 really serving the state if we're, if we're sending, you know, I don't 00:38:25.269 --> 00:38:28.526 know what the breakdown is, but it seems predominantly um Caucasian 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:33.376 Americans abroad and that there, what are the barriers that are keeping um 00:38:33.409 --> 00:38:37.977 a lot of Hispanics or other populations out of that process? So I think 00:38:38.010 --> 00:38:41.666 the visible, the visibility is probably the biggest one, but I think there 00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:45.615 are a lot of other little ones that kind of snowball into a larger, you 00:38:45.648 --> 00:38:49.497 know, effect of y 00:38:49.530 --> 00:38:55.486 um, were you able, I'm gonna go back a little bit. Um But you said that 00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:59.945 you weren't able to always go to quip, were you able to attend any 00:38:59.978 --> 00:39:03.126 meetings at all? Yeah, I did go once. Yeah, I did go once and I've gone to 00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:06.546 some of their fundraising events, but they do have weekly meetings and 00:39:06.579 --> 00:39:10.206 they are in downtown Phoenix and so being here in 10 and they're typically 00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.885 around like 530 or six. So sometimes because of timing and things, but 00:39:13.918 --> 00:39:17.586 I'll go, they'll host like after hours events. Um, and they have done 00:39:17.619 --> 00:39:20.577 weekend fundraisers. I've gone to some of those and I know a good number 00:39:20.610 --> 00:39:24.276 of the members, but I've only attended one formal meeting. Um, how was 00:39:24.309 --> 00:39:30.845 that experience? Can you tell me a little bit about it? Um 00:39:30.878 --> 00:39:36.247 It was interesting. Um, I, it was a lot different than dream zone because 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.517 now I'm out of outside of the higher Ed City. And so again, it took me 00:39:39.550 --> 00:39:43.997 kind of back to my Costa Rica experience of being maybe the only Caucasian 00:39:44.030 --> 00:39:49.046 American in the room or coming from an area where what was my normal or 00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.686 what is sometimes even thought of as the normal American experience was 00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:58.267 now. Um Not right. So a lot of the people in the room were speaking fluent 00:39:58.300 --> 00:40:02.057 Spanish to each other and um the way that they interacted was very 00:40:02.090 --> 00:40:05.316 different than what I'm, how I'm used to interacting with my friends and 00:40:05.349 --> 00:40:09.175 being outside of um dream zone. It was, it was not anything like dream 00:40:09.208 --> 00:40:12.546 zone, it was a completely different experience, but I enjoyed it. I think 00:40:12.579 --> 00:40:20.579 it just, I needed to find my space there to feel comfortable. Um 00:40:20.829 --> 00:40:25.356 I, I think it um as with, I, I think it's layered on top of the fact that 00:40:25.389 --> 00:40:29.195 anytime you're new, it's something you have to establish. Um basically 00:40:29.228 --> 00:40:32.276 feeling comfortable in that space. And so I think it was kind of coupled 00:40:32.309 --> 00:40:35.307 with that. So I was in a new organization in a room where I didn't really 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:39.077 know a lot of people. And then the other piece of that was the fact that 00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:44.481 it was mostly gay men and women and allies um that were also affiliated 00:40:44.514 --> 00:40:48.731 with either were undocumented or allies for undocumented people. Um And 00:40:48.764 --> 00:40:52.381 specifically in the Hispanic community, although it's open to others. Um 00:40:52.414 --> 00:40:57.490 That was what the membership tends to be. Um And at first I actually was 00:40:57.523 --> 00:41:00.412 really surprised at the organizations, I think they're part of a national 00:41:00.445 --> 00:41:04.635 organization and they have a lot of really great ideas and network and I 00:41:04.668 --> 00:41:08.287 actually, they were building a fundraiser there at the meeting and I 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:12.186 thought it was interesting because I didn't know if anyone would attend. I 00:41:12.219 --> 00:41:15.066 was like, oh, they're gonna do this dinner. I'm like, I don't know. I mean 00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:17.287 , I feel like a lot of organizations do this type of stuff and it's not 00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:21.001 successful but they're very driven and I went to the event and I was so 00:41:21.034 --> 00:41:24.720 surprised at how successful it was. Um, they do, they do one every year 00:41:24.753 --> 00:41:27.342 that's called drag for a dream where a lot of the members will dress up 00:41:27.375 --> 00:41:30.852 and drag and they kind of set up a bar there and they'll sell cocktails 00:41:30.885 --> 00:41:32.952 and that's one of the ways they make money and they, they have like a 00:41:32.985 --> 00:41:35.780 silent auction or they'll serve dinner, you know, they'll have, they'll 00:41:35.813 --> 00:41:38.570 sell tacos and things like that. Like, things that their families make 00:41:38.603 --> 00:41:42.836 really, really good. Um, and they raised a lot of, I don't know how much 00:41:42.869 --> 00:41:45.905 they're raised off it, but I went and it was super packed and crowded and 00:41:45.938 --> 00:41:49.566 it was like 10 or 20 a ticket and it actually was a really good show. Um, 00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:52.945 they have a lot of talent there. So it was neat to kind of piece together 00:41:52.978 --> 00:41:56.026 the disconnect between how I felt after leaving the meeting and what my 00:41:56.059 --> 00:41:59.037 preconceived notions and ideas about it were gonna be and then going to 00:41:59.070 --> 00:42:01.925 the event and seeing that. Wow, they really know what they're doing or 00:42:01.958 --> 00:42:08.646 they really have a lot of drive. Um Was it, um, what was the difference 00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:11.885 between the, what do you think the difference was between the event and 00:42:11.918 --> 00:42:16.416 the uh meeting that made it feel that made you feel so comfortable being 00:42:16.449 --> 00:42:21.095 at the event and not quite so comfortable being at the meeting? 00:42:21.128 --> 00:42:27.736 Ok. 00:42:27.769 --> 00:42:32.186 That's a really good question, 00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:36.146 I think. Well, the meeting, it is a more formal setting. So I was sitting 00:42:36.179 --> 00:42:42.796 in a circle and we did icebreakers and so we had to talk about things and 00:42:42.829 --> 00:42:48.057 I, I felt like I was being watched a little more being the new person and 00:42:48.090 --> 00:42:51.046 I didn't understand some of the jokes and when you're in a setting like 00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:55.925 that and everyone can see everyone and everyone is talking to each other 00:42:55.958 --> 00:42:58.945 and you don't understand the jokes or in my case, I don't understand the 00:42:58.978 --> 00:43:01.445 language. I mean, sometimes they would just start conducting the meeting 00:43:01.478 --> 00:43:04.595 entirely in Spanish, which I know a little bit, but I don't know enough to 00:43:04.628 --> 00:43:07.227 understand the whole meeting. They would forget to have the translator 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:10.376 speak. So sometimes the translator would speak and sometimes he wouldn't. 00:43:10.409 --> 00:43:15.327 But when I went to the actual event, they had um more English actually. 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:18.945 So it was like half English, half Spanish. And I didn't feel like I was 00:43:18.978 --> 00:43:22.146 being watched. I feel like I could kind of partake in things at my own 00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:26.086 comfort level. So since it was part of it was a drag performance, I was 00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:29.845 able to just be a spectator and I didn't feel like I necessarily had to 00:43:29.878 --> 00:43:33.526 contribute to something I felt like I could be more of a silent observer. 00:43:33.559 --> 00:43:37.206 Whereas at the meeting, I really felt the need to be involved with the 00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:43.155 process and kind of a contributing ideas and being an active listener more 00:43:43.188 --> 00:43:46.646 so, um whereas the, the event I could be a spectator. So it was probably 00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.456 the biggest difference. 00:43:49.489 --> 00:43:54.695 Um Do you consider yourself an activist? Um 00:43:54.728 --> 00:44:00.166 I wish I were. Yeah, I don't, I, I think I have a lot of ideas and I like 00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.666 to do a lot of talking, but I don't think I always am able to put them 00:44:02.699 --> 00:44:05.686 into action as much as I would like. And I have a lot of excuses in my 00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:09.146 head. I think as to why I do that. But I think the ultimate goal would be 00:44:09.179 --> 00:44:12.706 to be more of an activist. I think there's different, in my mind, there's 00:44:12.739 --> 00:44:16.856 different levels of activism. Um So I think, consider myself more of like 00:44:16.889 --> 00:44:21.467 a visible ally for a lot of causes, but I don't always end up contributing 00:44:21.500 --> 00:44:28.057 as much as I would like to. Um like, I, I would probably consider myself 00:44:28.090 --> 00:44:32.095 an activist in comparison to a lot of people that I know, I think it 00:44:32.128 --> 00:44:35.057 depends on your reference point for that. Sometimes, you know, like if 00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:39.436 people that are legitimate activists may be paid or people that, that 00:44:39.469 --> 00:44:43.217 actually do a lot of time volunteering. I don't know that I would consider 00:44:43.250 --> 00:44:46.952 myself an activist in comparison to that. When I think about a lot of the 00:44:46.985 --> 00:44:50.481 students that I work with here at a su or my family members or even a lot 00:44:50.514 --> 00:44:53.622 of my colleagues and different jobs and housing and around the university 00:44:53.655 --> 00:44:58.861 , I would consider myself a lot more political than they are. Um And I do 00:44:58.894 --> 00:45:06.316 do, I do have some um time of year that I actually do volunteer some. So I 00:45:06.349 --> 00:45:10.776 do, like, I, I volunteered with the organization called Mi Familia Vota. 00:45:10.809 --> 00:45:16.217 And it's a Spanish organization that um helps to get people basically to 00:45:16.250 --> 00:45:19.256 the polls are supposed to be nonpartisan. So it's not affiliated with any 00:45:19.289 --> 00:45:23.296 candidates, but like, for instance, during the 2012 election, I was a van 00:45:23.329 --> 00:45:27.537 driver for them. So just for that day, um, I drove people to the polls, 00:45:27.570 --> 00:45:30.026 anybody that needed to ride, they would just call this hotline, um, 00:45:30.059 --> 00:45:34.936 because it was a Hispanic organization. Um, and they were involved with 00:45:34.969 --> 00:45:38.717 trying to get Hispanics to come out vote. Um Most of the people that I 00:45:38.750 --> 00:45:41.945 drove were Spanish speaking as their native language, but we would just 00:45:41.978 --> 00:45:44.675 drive them to the polls. We wouldn't tell them who to vote for anything. 00:45:44.708 --> 00:45:48.997 We would just simply give them a ride and um, drop them off there and wait 00:45:49.030 --> 00:45:52.267 outside the polling place while they went in. Um because we weren't 00:45:52.300 --> 00:45:56.077 allowed to go in with them. But I actually found myself in that experience. 00:45:56.110 --> 00:46:02.595 It actually showed me, I think it brought up. Um 00:46:02.628 --> 00:46:05.356 It was interesting because through that, even though it was nonpartisan, 00:46:05.389 --> 00:46:10.497 we were in poorer areas of Phoenix and I really saw the effects what I 00:46:10.530 --> 00:46:14.686 feel like a voter suppression where I was, I was, I went to go vote. So 00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:18.206 I'm here in TB and I, I lived on campus at the university. So I went to 00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:22.276 vote and I just walked in, I didn't really have to wait in line. I went 00:46:22.309 --> 00:46:25.615 right and dropped my ballot off and left. Um, and they greeted me and 00:46:25.648 --> 00:46:29.095 there was no issue, but now I'm at a polling place in South Phoenix, uh, 00:46:29.128 --> 00:46:32.461 predominantly the Hispanic area of town and the lines are like out the 00:46:32.494 --> 00:46:37.231 door and there's no person at the polls directing people as to what to do. 00:46:37.264 --> 00:46:40.092 So, people were lining up actually, with their mailing ballot already 00:46:40.125 --> 00:46:42.291 filled out, they didn't know they could just go inside and drop it and 00:46:42.324 --> 00:46:45.651 there was no one out there telling them. So, actually, um, we were helping 00:46:45.684 --> 00:46:48.811 to kind of answer questions and direct people, not in a partisan way, but 00:46:48.844 --> 00:46:51.662 just about the process to um you know, if you already have your ballot 00:46:51.695 --> 00:46:54.751 fill out, you can take it in and drop it off. You don't have to stand in 00:46:54.784 --> 00:46:57.936 line. So that was helping to alleviate some of the line and even people 00:46:57.969 --> 00:47:03.557 needed assistance um with their ballot knowing how to um put it back into 00:47:03.590 --> 00:47:07.655 the envelope just like very basic things. Um And, you know, if they could 00:47:07.688 --> 00:47:10.365 get in line, what like identification they needed, could they use this 00:47:10.398 --> 00:47:14.336 card? Could they use that card? So trying to serve kind of in a role that 00:47:14.369 --> 00:47:18.456 I feel like the poll workers should have been. But I don't, I don't have a 00:47:18.489 --> 00:47:22.106 reason as to why they weren't. Um But I did recognize that it was a very 00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:26.280 different experience than what I received at my poll place and I was 00:47:26.313 --> 00:47:29.932 frustrated by that, but I also we stayed until the polls closed that day 00:47:29.965 --> 00:47:33.820 there just helping um driving people and also staying at that polling 00:47:33.853 --> 00:47:36.702 place and just helping from the street actually, because the line was so 00:47:36.735 --> 00:47:39.811 long it was outside of the building because there's laws about people 00:47:39.844 --> 00:47:43.050 being within certain feet of a polling place. So we just stood out on the 00:47:43.083 --> 00:47:46.990 sidewalk and helped direct a lot of the people that were there to vote on 00:47:47.023 --> 00:47:50.220 how to do that because there was no one there outlining that process or 00:47:50.253 --> 00:47:54.747 assisting people with it. Um What are you interested? It seems like you're 00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:58.695 very interested in um Hispanic or Hispanic American issues like 00:47:58.728 --> 00:48:01.736 immigration and things like that. What got you interested in that sort of 00:48:01.769 --> 00:48:07.046 thing? Um Well, I'm interested in a lot of topics. Immigration is one of 00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:11.327 them. But I think one of the, I think the underlying premise, the thing 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:15.296 that really resonated with me is that as with a lot of issues, it, it 00:48:15.329 --> 00:48:19.086 didn't feel morally right was the first thing the way that the 00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.727 conversation around Hispanics specifically in the country and the way that 00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:28.425 that population is treated um growing up in a really conservative family 00:48:28.458 --> 00:48:32.635 um in what I would probably consider now a Republican family, um three 00:48:32.668 --> 00:48:37.077 kids, you know, a mom and a dad, all the same parent, a very pastor for a 00:48:37.110 --> 00:48:40.905 dad and a mom that was a nurse. So you're like American pie, traditional 00:48:40.938 --> 00:48:45.267 family. I think I realize that one that Hispanic culture is not that much 00:48:45.300 --> 00:48:49.256 different than Southern culture. They're very similar. Um A lot of 00:48:49.289 --> 00:48:52.026 Hispanics actually tend to be conservatives, which is kind of the ironic 00:48:52.059 --> 00:48:55.497 thing I think about the Republican stance in the country surrounding 00:48:55.530 --> 00:49:00.646 immigration. And I think that I learned that Hispanic values are actually 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.287 very American values in the sense of what people think of when they think 00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:08.345 of what it means to be American of like working really hard setting a 00:49:08.378 --> 00:49:10.945 dream. I mean, a lot of Hispanics come here because they want a better 00:49:10.978 --> 00:49:15.345 life or they want to contribute. But yet that's lost. And the message is, 00:49:15.378 --> 00:49:18.756 oh, they're moochers or they want food stamps or oh, they're going to 00:49:18.789 --> 00:49:22.517 college for free, which is just uh like it's preposterous, the things that 00:49:22.550 --> 00:49:26.727 are being said. And um so I think the injustice bothered me and the 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:30.865 message and the misinformation that's out there around that as with any 00:49:30.898 --> 00:49:36.405 topic really would bother me. And it, it, it, it just really uh it's not 00:49:36.438 --> 00:49:39.615 right. You know what's happening? I think that there's like the, the moral 00:49:39.648 --> 00:49:42.916 side to it, but there's many ways to look at immigration and that's 00:49:42.949 --> 00:49:46.436 something that we talk about in dream zone is there's many appeals to the 00:49:46.469 --> 00:49:50.115 calls and some of them are even economic, right? So there's the economic 00:49:50.148 --> 00:49:53.566 piece of that. You have people here working a lot of them in lower wage 00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:56.615 jobs and they're contributing and they want to be here. So why is there 00:49:56.648 --> 00:50:00.017 not a path to citizenship for them or those types of discussions. So I 00:50:00.050 --> 00:50:04.997 think there are many facets that attract me to that causes. Um But I think 00:50:05.030 --> 00:50:10.046 one of the mo the most um important one is probably the moral peace. I 00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:14.865 just feel like they, there's a lot that's lost in translation with the 00:50:14.898 --> 00:50:22.706 movement that I wanna try to serve as a uh like a very visible ally to 00:50:22.739 --> 00:50:25.967 have those conversations with people that they might not. I think when I 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.876 told Dave and Jesus, I wanted to be involved with dream zone, I think they 00:50:28.909 --> 00:50:32.916 were more excited than they were with some other facilitators because they 00:50:32.949 --> 00:50:36.836 really want more allies. They want people. The reality is, is that people 00:50:36.869 --> 00:50:41.577 respond differently to different types of people. And they, they know that 00:50:41.610 --> 00:50:45.736 when a Hispanic person is trying to talk to a Caucasian person about the 00:50:45.769 --> 00:50:49.456 calls, they respond differently than if it's another Caucasian person or 00:50:49.489 --> 00:50:53.526 even Southerners. If I'm talking like Southerner to Southerner. Um there 00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:57.186 is a difference in that and the amount of people that were able to reach 00:50:57.219 --> 00:51:01.006 in the way they perceive that message and to get that dialogue started. 00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:05.345 And so I think for me, I really like to talk about, it really drives me to 00:51:05.378 --> 00:51:08.546 be able to have a conversation with people about what their thoughts are 00:51:08.579 --> 00:51:11.635 about immigration and helping them piece those pieces of the puzzle 00:51:11.668 --> 00:51:19.668 together because I know that the way that people feel is the way that um 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:24.936 how do I say this? There's a disconnect between what people think of 00:51:24.969 --> 00:51:28.816 immigration and what is reality. And I know that if I can talk to people 00:51:28.849 --> 00:51:33.416 about the facts of immigration and what is really happening, that they 00:51:33.449 --> 00:51:37.046 will change their mind about it. I know that um even, you know, I have an 00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:40.287 84 year old grandfather and I was talking to him and he was, he made his 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:43.247 comment like I was home over the summer and he said, well, you know, 00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.756 there's all these Mexicans going to school for free and there's so many 00:51:47.789 --> 00:51:51.345 things wrong with that statement, right? But the great thing was is I was 00:51:51.378 --> 00:51:53.666 able to have a really good dialogue with him about it. And by the end of 00:51:53.699 --> 00:51:56.845 that conversation, he didn't admit that he was wrong or anything, which 00:51:56.878 --> 00:52:00.405 was fine, but he actually said, you know, I didn't know that and he just 00:52:00.438 --> 00:52:02.615 kind of left it at that. And I was like, you know, maybe he'll go back and 00:52:02.648 --> 00:52:06.686 think about that and that will resonate with him on down the road or that 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:09.767 will, you know, at least stop him from making those type of comments at 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:14.057 the very least because I think there is this misconception that Hispanics 00:52:14.090 --> 00:52:17.506 are here and as a population, I don't like to generalize people, but 00:52:17.539 --> 00:52:21.126 that's the notion that they're here and they're getting a free ride. So 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:24.747 then I kind of use that as a segue of, well, like how can, how, first of 00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:26.615 all, how are they getting a free ride because they can't receive any 00:52:26.648 --> 00:52:30.477 benefits? And the laws are being designed to make people so miserable that 00:52:30.510 --> 00:52:35.175 they actually will leave. You know, and II I try to talk to them about 00:52:35.208 --> 00:52:39.186 what that means, you know, why, why would you pass laws that specifically 00:52:39.219 --> 00:52:43.217 target a population or, you know, this is what it is like, you know, from 00:52:43.250 --> 00:52:45.916 a Hispanic person's eyes, people that I've talked to and barriers that 00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:51.606 they're facing. Um So I just, I don't remember what the original question 00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:56.626 was, but I'm way off topic as usual. OK. Um How, so you talk, you talk a 00:52:56.659 --> 00:52:59.865 lot about face to face conversations that you have uh with family members. 00:52:59.898 --> 00:53:03.115 Is there any other way that you spread the facts about immigration and 00:53:03.148 --> 00:53:09.296 undocumented youth um in other ways? Yeah. Um So informal conversations 00:53:09.329 --> 00:53:12.845 also through social media. So I try, I think that's another important 00:53:12.878 --> 00:53:17.236 piece when I talk about visibility, it's making certain topics trend on 00:53:17.269 --> 00:53:21.276 Twitter. Um You know, for instance, like on Martin Luther King Day, I try 00:53:21.309 --> 00:53:24.537 to connect people's minds. I think a lot of people are celebrating Martin 00:53:24.570 --> 00:53:27.816 Luther King, but there are a lot of quotes and things that you can look to 00:53:27.849 --> 00:53:33.921 from um his time here when he was prominent in giving speeches that point 00:53:33.954 --> 00:53:38.751 to immigrant rights as well. Um And so I use that as a platform on those 00:53:38.784 --> 00:53:43.441 days, like bring up those discussions about immigration and why that's 00:53:43.474 --> 00:53:49.010 important. Um So sharing articles staying up to date on things and formal 00:53:49.043 --> 00:53:55.635 conversations. I do, I do want to be more involved um with doing more 00:53:55.668 --> 00:54:00.477 things than conversations, but right now I am more on the informal front 00:54:00.510 --> 00:54:06.776 with that. Um Well, let me see. 00:54:06.809 --> 00:54:09.287 Um I think that's all the questions that I have. Is there anything else 00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:15.396 that you'd wanna say you wanna talk about? 00:54:15.429 --> 00:54:18.135 I know there'll be something after I leave the room like I wish I had said 00:54:18.168 --> 00:54:25.287 , um I just, I really, um 00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:29.626 and I really would like, I want to be involved with it because I think 00:54:29.659 --> 00:54:35.336 that there's a lot of room to change people's minds on this issue. I think 00:54:35.369 --> 00:54:40.296 that um as with, with the, the two probably hottest topics in the country 00:54:40.329 --> 00:54:45.405 right now of LGBT rights and actually legalize marijuana. Um I feel like 00:54:45.438 --> 00:54:47.845 there are two really hot political topics right now that people are 00:54:47.878 --> 00:54:50.816 talking about and I think the third would probably be immigration. And I 00:54:50.849 --> 00:54:56.026 think that as um people begin that dialogue about it and I think it really 00:54:56.059 --> 00:54:59.376 starts, you know, you hear a lot of politicians talk about grassroots 00:54:59.409 --> 00:55:03.316 campaigns. So, right, you can spend millions of dollars on TV ads and that 00:55:03.349 --> 00:55:06.376 may not translate into votes, but then you'd look at candidates that and 00:55:06.409 --> 00:55:10.236 they always will reference their grassroot campaigns, whether it's like um 00:55:10.269 --> 00:55:14.635 President Obama and his really awesome grassroots effort all the way down 00:55:14.668 --> 00:55:18.615 to local elections. Um Grassroots is really the thing right now. And I 00:55:18.648 --> 00:55:22.276 think that, and that's kind of what that, that definitely is what dream 00:55:22.309 --> 00:55:26.537 zone is, is a grassroots effort of someone of two people that saw a 00:55:26.570 --> 00:55:30.247 population that wasn't being served. And they actually started from a 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:34.526 conversation kind of like this interview where um they were like, wow, 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:38.566 like this isn't right. And then what is a su doing about this? And then 00:55:38.599 --> 00:55:41.517 they come to find out there just really wasn't much that the university or 00:55:41.550 --> 00:55:45.256 that they could do because they're state institution and all these laws 00:55:45.289 --> 00:55:48.385 and the political environment. So these two people, Jesus and a really 00:55:48.418 --> 00:55:51.115 took it upon themselves and were really leaders and got out there and did 00:55:51.148 --> 00:55:54.686 it. And I'll even admit I was kind of skeptical when they started it 00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:58.037 because I, I, I'm typically an optimist, but it's just like, wow, this is 00:55:58.070 --> 00:56:01.557 gonna be a lot of work and I don't know if the support is really gonna be 00:56:01.590 --> 00:56:04.655 there. People are going to perceive this to be really political, but they 00:56:04.688 --> 00:56:09.425 did really an amazing job of building dream zone and putting a real solid 00:56:09.458 --> 00:56:14.666 framework in place that really took the political pieces out of it. You 00:56:14.699 --> 00:56:17.497 know, for the most part, people that have gone to the session, I think 00:56:17.530 --> 00:56:22.666 would agree that it is um it tends, it tries to be very unbiased and 00:56:22.699 --> 00:56:25.896 really create a healthy and safe discussion around immigration, which is 00:56:25.929 --> 00:56:29.506 really how you change people and how you create change in the institution 00:56:29.539 --> 00:56:35.037 as well. And so many people after the sessions, I think the the spirit of 00:56:35.070 --> 00:56:39.595 Dream zone and hearing from the Dreamers on the panel, the personal 00:56:39.628 --> 00:56:44.217 stories, the videos learning about the political environment, the laws has 00:56:44.250 --> 00:56:49.267 really changed staff's faculty and students attitudes towards dreamers. 00:56:49.300 --> 00:56:52.787 And so you had people that came in that maybe were very nonchalant about 00:56:52.820 --> 00:56:57.717 participating or they just came in because they just were curious and left 00:56:57.750 --> 00:57:01.477 really changed by it. So that's a huge metric because effective train 00:57:01.510 --> 00:57:04.510 train will change their behavior. And so when you have people that are 00:57:04.543 --> 00:57:07.510 going through just literally a four hour, that's all it is a four hour 00:57:07.543 --> 00:57:10.981 certification and they're leaving and it's having this astounding impact 00:57:11.014 --> 00:57:13.852 on their life and then they're then going out and trying to implement 00:57:13.885 --> 00:57:18.050 these changes at a su and nationally and all over the place. Really K 00:57:18.083 --> 00:57:20.952 through 12 and, and Maricopa Community College and all these different 00:57:20.985 --> 00:57:25.432 places. It's really amazing to think what two people have accomplished by 00:57:25.465 --> 00:57:29.885 just this very small grassroots effort. So I've been like, I really 00:57:29.918 --> 00:57:32.986 privileged to have been able to be a part of it. I'm going to continue to 00:57:33.019 --> 00:57:38.106 serve as a facilitator. Hopefully, during my time here but I'm excited to 00:57:38.139 --> 00:57:41.017 see some of the things that Dream Zone will do moving forward because 00:57:41.050 --> 00:57:44.327 that's the other piece to Dream Zone is that immigration right now is 00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:48.086 changing every day. I mean, one day I was presenting in the violence 00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:52.256 against Women Act actually was expiring that day and Congress had not 00:57:52.289 --> 00:57:56.615 renewed it because the Democrats had tried to add in a provision to 00:57:56.648 --> 00:58:00.231 predict documented people so that if they were facing abuse, they could 00:58:00.264 --> 00:58:03.952 call the police without fear of being deported. And the bill actually 00:58:03.985 --> 00:58:07.131 expired that day in the session and it was at our powerpoint site. So we 00:58:07.164 --> 00:58:10.102 actually had to talk about that of like, well, the environment is 00:58:10.135 --> 00:58:12.811 constantly changes. So you have to stay up to date on it. But right now 00:58:12.844 --> 00:58:16.361 this law has expired, they went a month later, they renewed it and they 00:58:16.394 --> 00:58:20.021 included the protections, they end up strike a compromise, but, you know, 00:58:20.054 --> 00:58:23.720 DACA could change, things are going to change and DACA is a band aid, it's 00:58:23.753 --> 00:58:27.816 not a permanent thing. So, um you know, hopefully immigration reform will 00:58:27.849 --> 00:58:31.037 happen. And at that point, that's gonna completely change what dream zone 00:58:31.070 --> 00:58:36.256 means, right? Depending on how comprehensive um that legislation is when 00:58:36.289 --> 00:58:40.537 it happens because it's only a matter of time when that happens. Um It's 00:58:40.570 --> 00:58:43.546 gonna completely change what dream zone is and maybe it will. That's the 00:58:43.579 --> 00:58:47.017 great thing about it is because it's a grassroots effort. Um and everybody 00:58:47.050 --> 00:58:49.771 that's all the facilitators kind of have a seat at the table and we all 00:58:49.804 --> 00:58:53.311 kind of talk about the direction and what the pros and cons are. It's 00:58:53.344 --> 00:58:56.892 going to change and I can see it changing into more of what we had talked 00:58:56.925 --> 00:59:01.642 about earlier where it's more of a student support service, more than a 00:59:01.675 --> 00:59:04.490 faculty and staff support service. Of course, it will always be inclusive 00:59:04.523 --> 00:59:08.070 and serve everyone, but the primary goals will change over time as the 00:59:08.103 --> 00:59:13.577 legislation changes. OK. Um Thank you very much for agreeing to do this 00:59:13.610 --> 00:59:18.115 interview. Um So I just need your formal consent to put this on the public 00:59:18.148 --> 00:59:22.557 online digital archive. Yeah, that's fine. OK, great. Um This is Holly 00:59:22.590 --> 00:59:28.659 Solis interviewing Seth mcmanus for undocumented Voices on April 7th 2015.