WEBVTT 00:00:00.829 --> 00:00:08.646 All right. Uh This is Geneva Gill and Sheen Dulce M on five May 5th, 2015 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:13.357 for the undocumented Vo voices Oral History project. Um This is a multi 00:00:13.390 --> 00:00:17.116 state project and the risks will vary depending on the interview location. 00:00:17.149 --> 00:00:20.436 We have reconized these risks by attributing pseudonyms to all interviews 00:00:20.469 --> 00:00:24.265 collected. However, all interviews will be archived in a true original 00:00:24.298 --> 00:00:28.046 form, be advised that the any identified information given during the 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:31.796 interview will be available online publicly. 00:00:31.829 --> 00:00:38.315 Um And just do I have your verbal consent to that in you? Yes, you do. Ok. 00:00:38.348 --> 00:00:40.976 Um So just first, I just wanna learn a little more about like your family 00:00:41.009 --> 00:00:45.585 , like where were you born? Um And tell me just a little more about your 00:00:45.618 --> 00:00:53.167 family. I was born in Hermosillo, Sonora Mexico. And um what do you want 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:58.265 to know about a family? So, um you said you were born in Murillo? So um do 00:00:58.298 --> 00:01:01.576 you like, do you have any memories of your journey to the United States? 00:01:01.609 --> 00:01:08.766 Um Do you have brothers, sisters, your parents? Yes, I have uh 44 siblings 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:15.596 , three sisters and one brother. And uh yeah, I have plenty of memories 00:01:15.629 --> 00:01:22.605 from my country of origin. I lived there for 15 years 00:01:22.638 --> 00:01:30.638 since I was born until I was 15. I went to um OK. Uh One through it always 00:01:34.308 --> 00:01:38.775 gets me screwed up because they have another system over there. So I went 00:01:38.808 --> 00:01:44.717 to um Prim Maria. How would you say that in English? Elementary school? 00:01:44.750 --> 00:01:49.897 Elementary school. So I went to elementary school there. Uh My dad has a 00:01:49.930 --> 00:01:55.227 business uh up to this day, he still lives there. My older sister still 00:01:55.260 --> 00:02:01.025 lives in Hermosillo. So Mona Mexico, I have another sister that lives in 00:02:01.058 --> 00:02:05.897 Douglas, Arizona and the rest of us are here in Phoenix. And then do you 00:02:05.930 --> 00:02:10.725 remember like your journey coming to the United States? Um And if you, if 00:02:10.758 --> 00:02:15.957 can you describe if you do remember that journey? Well, I have plenty of 00:02:15.990 --> 00:02:22.596 family here in the United States. Uh uncles that move to California to 00:02:22.629 --> 00:02:30.297 Arizona. And I always remember visiting them. Um I've been very fortunate 00:02:30.330 --> 00:02:38.330 to have had a tourist visa. So we will come here um every summer and uh 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:45.876 visit them and go to the theme parks, come shopping. So the United States 00:02:45.909 --> 00:02:53.909 wasn't something like really new to me. Um And one day my mom came in and 00:02:57.008 --> 00:03:03.275 to my aunt's wedding, what's going to happen in Vegas? So me and my mom 00:03:03.308 --> 00:03:07.636 are very close to each other and we would always be together. And that 00:03:07.669 --> 00:03:11.786 time she told me that Vegas was in a place for, for Children. So I 00:03:11.819 --> 00:03:18.725 couldn't go. And from that moment I knew something was wrong. Um, so later 00:03:18.758 --> 00:03:21.805 , a couple of days later, I received a call from her and she was 00:03:21.838 --> 00:03:27.047 explaining to me that she needed to stay in the United States to work and 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:34.225 save money and um that she will come back for me. And it was a year I 00:03:34.258 --> 00:03:40.217 needed to finish over with junior high Se Naia over there in Mexico. And 00:03:40.250 --> 00:03:44.725 she told me that I needed to be a good girl finish school. And I, and she 00:03:44.758 --> 00:03:51.745 will come back and, and get me. Um So a year later in 2000, I came to the 00:03:51.778 --> 00:03:59.778 United States in the fourth of July. So that was my journey. Um And then, 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:03.096 so you finished junior high over there and obviously you did high school 00:04:03.129 --> 00:04:06.327 here in the United States. Can you tell me about your experience here? 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:11.797 Like your high school experience? The first uh couple of months that I was 00:04:11.830 --> 00:04:16.697 here in the United States, I switched to three different high schools. I 00:04:16.730 --> 00:04:23.137 first went to Jet San Jacinto, which is a small town and I went to their 00:04:23.170 --> 00:04:31.170 high school there and um everybody, all the teachers spoke English, so I 00:04:32.238 --> 00:04:38.805 couldn't really communicate that much. I had friends there that spoke 00:04:38.838 --> 00:04:46.838 Spanish and I also had an um my cousins that helped me get friends here in 00:04:46.869 --> 00:04:52.305 high school over there. So it was hard because I couldn't really 00:04:52.338 --> 00:04:57.366 understand much. There was only one teacher that spoke Spanish and he was 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:03.447 a math teacher and he was not my teacher. So, um, I have to study really 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:09.067 hard and, uh, sometimes I would turn in homework late because I didn't 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:12.567 really know what they were asking me. So it would take me longer to figure 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.555 out what the, what the homework assignment was. Um, I remember that when 00:05:17.588 --> 00:05:22.476 they give you the study guide for your test, um I had to memorize them all 00:05:22.509 --> 00:05:28.286 because I didn't know exactly what they were asking. So I need, I needed 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:34.265 to memorize every single question and every, every single answer. So, but 00:05:34.298 --> 00:05:38.325 that helped me, I think it helped me learn English at a faster pace, uh 00:05:38.358 --> 00:05:45.486 pace and uh to make matters worse, they put me on an advanced English 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:51.486 class. It was just a mistake. And uh by the time we figured it out, I was 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:59.519 already moving to Arizona. So um I had um good grades because also I think 00:06:00.129 --> 00:06:08.129 it was easier to learn um like do the sciences, like math and chemistry 00:06:08.170 --> 00:06:12.796 and physics. It was easier for me to pick it up. Um Then I came to Phoenix 00:06:12.829 --> 00:06:15.166 , 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:22.317 I went to Sal Monte High School and in there it was very different because 00:06:22.350 --> 00:06:26.366 there was a lot more students that knew both languages. English and 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:33.447 Spanish. So I was able to make more friends and, 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:37.217 and then I went to car hidden high school and most of the teachers there 00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:43.226 spoke Spanish and most of the students there spoke Spanish. 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:47.325 Um, and then can, can you tell me if there was anyone, like, during your 00:06:47.358 --> 00:06:50.296 high school experience that had like a positive influence, like on your 00:06:50.329 --> 00:06:54.765 education or like, made you want to continue on with your education after 00:06:54.798 --> 00:07:00.757 high school? Yes. My teachers, um, I had two in particular. I think every 00:07:00.790 --> 00:07:06.007 teacher has been very good to me. But the ones that influenced me, the 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:11.786 more were my, uh Freddie Lard and Dr Alan Cameron who had the robotics 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:19.455 team at Car Haven High School. So, um that was back in 2001. 00:07:19.488 --> 00:07:25.086 And uh they showed a promo about the robotics competition that happens 00:07:25.119 --> 00:07:30.656 nationwide and then they said anybody can join. It doesn't matter if you 00:07:30.689 --> 00:07:35.717 don't know or have a special skill. We're starting a uh a robotics team 00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:40.906 and everybody's invited. So I thought I met the requirements because I 00:07:40.939 --> 00:07:44.526 didn't know anything and I was currently learning their language. So I 00:07:44.559 --> 00:07:51.666 joined and um they really helped me to make the right choices at school 00:07:51.699 --> 00:07:58.717 because I think that sometimes uh we don't, students or parents don't know 00:07:58.750 --> 00:08:05.406 the system or they don't get um all the tricks of what classes to take, to 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.666 prepare to go to college. And I think a lot of the classes that I was 00:08:09.699 --> 00:08:13.596 taking were not preparing me to go to college. So with their guidance. I 00:08:13.629 --> 00:08:19.515 started making changes into my academic classes, 00:08:19.548 --> 00:08:26.627 taking math and going into summer school to catch up on my math. And, um, 00:08:26.660 --> 00:08:31.866 yeah, they're the ones who told me that I was college material. All right. 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:34.746 And then just with that, like, when did you actually start thinking about 00:08:34.779 --> 00:08:41.196 college? And how did you pick a suo, um, over any other school? So I knew 00:08:41.229 --> 00:08:46.287 I needed to go to college because that was my mom's top priority. I didn't 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:51.645 know what college to go to and I didn't know what major I wanted to pick. 00:08:51.678 --> 00:08:58.307 But being on the robotics team, it really exposed me to science, 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:03.066 technology, engineering and math. And I was able to network with engineers 00:09:03.099 --> 00:09:07.976 with CEO S with scientists. And that really motivated me to say, hey, I 00:09:08.009 --> 00:09:12.936 want to be an engineer. So that's on my senior year. I decided that I 00:09:12.969 --> 00:09:16.037 wanted to be an engineer and I was thinking that probably I had to go back 00:09:16.070 --> 00:09:22.717 to Mexico to go to college. But because of Dr Cameron and Freddie Lanard, 00:09:22.750 --> 00:09:27.135 they told me, hey, let's go and apply. And there was a recruiter from a SU 00:09:27.168 --> 00:09:35.168 that will go to Car Heen. And one day we just sat down and talked um and 00:09:35.469 --> 00:09:41.356 it was very a very uncertain moment because I tried to enroll into a SU 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:48.096 online um through the online. Um And uh when I was on the website trying 00:09:48.129 --> 00:09:52.787 to register, um I couldn't really get that far. They were asking me for my 00:09:52.820 --> 00:09:57.836 name and like the third question was, what's your social security number? 00:09:57.869 --> 00:10:01.946 And I knew that there was something 00:10:01.979 --> 00:10:06.417 like, I don't want to say wrong, but there was something going on with my 00:10:06.450 --> 00:10:11.255 immigration, but I didn't really understand it until that day that you 00:10:11.288 --> 00:10:19.288 needed a social to be able to be successful in life. OK. Um And then, so 00:10:19.690 --> 00:10:24.775 I'm moving on to like activism and movement. So obviously, first question 00:10:24.808 --> 00:10:27.246 is like, what groups are you involved? Are you like currently involved 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:32.316 with? I know you're involved with AAA and then the Cross Hayden um robotic 00:10:32.349 --> 00:10:35.255 scheme. But there are there any other organizations you're involved with 00:10:35.288 --> 00:10:39.946 or is it just those two that I'm highly involved in, is just the Arizona 00:10:39.979 --> 00:10:46.787 Dr Coalition and the Falcon Robotics? Um And I would go and attend other 00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:51.625 events from other organizations, but I wouldn't consider myself to be 00:10:51.658 --> 00:10:56.375 actively involved. And then within these organizations, like, how do you 00:10:56.408 --> 00:11:01.765 participate? And like, what's your role in the organization? Well, when I 00:11:01.798 --> 00:11:08.537 was in high school, I, I was doing public relations for, for car hidden 00:11:08.570 --> 00:11:15.096 fundraising. And right now I just go as support. Uh go and hang out over 00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:19.446 there, talk to the students. Sometimes I volunteered to be a judge on 00:11:19.479 --> 00:11:27.479 their robotics competitions on um on the Arizona Dr Coalition, I have 00:11:29.009 --> 00:11:34.596 different roles. Um I started being the treasurer, then the policy advisor 00:11:34.629 --> 00:11:41.836 , I was the president for like two years and now I'm just a member. Um But 00:11:41.869 --> 00:11:47.686 I try to also motivate others so they can take those leadership roles. And 00:11:47.719 --> 00:11:52.186 we don't have to re invent the wheel every time because you need to pass 00:11:52.219 --> 00:11:55.917 down the knowledge or things that you have learned the hard way. So they 00:11:55.950 --> 00:12:01.946 don't make the same, I don't want to say mistake, but the same 00:12:01.979 --> 00:12:07.986 that we, we're able to progress and that's, that's my role. And then how 00:12:08.019 --> 00:12:11.936 do you place yourself in the movement? Like um activist, like obviously 00:12:11.969 --> 00:12:15.547 you're an activist but an ally. Like what do you, how do you place 00:12:15.580 --> 00:12:18.486 yourself in the movement? Like what do you feel like your role is within 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:23.086 the movement itself? The undocumented youth movement? Well, I'm a person 00:12:23.119 --> 00:12:28.047 that has been affected by our broken immigration system and although my 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:33.265 immigration status is now I was fixed, I'm actually in the process to 00:12:33.298 --> 00:12:39.167 apply for citizenship. My immigration status has never defined who I am. 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:45.037 And my experiences as an immigrant have been always um be that driving 00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:51.217 force for me to get involved and for me to continue being involved. So I 00:12:51.250 --> 00:12:55.092 placed my myself as somebody that has been affected by the broken 00:12:55.125 --> 00:12:58.890 immigration system. And people need to know what's going on because I'm 00:12:58.923 --> 00:13:04.101 not the only one who has gone through this uh obstacles and there's people 00:13:04.134 --> 00:13:10.606 that have gone through worst situations that I have gone through um So 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:13.116 then like, what that is, what kind of events have you been involved with? 00:13:13.149 --> 00:13:16.755 Have you been involved with? Like, I know the, there's like the lawsuit 00:13:16.788 --> 00:13:22.635 against Jan Jan Brewer with the driver's license or the AC to DC. But have 00:13:22.668 --> 00:13:27.047 you been involved with any of these like petitions sit ins like, what kind 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:32.096 of events do you participate in throughout the movement? I participate to 00:13:32.129 --> 00:13:39.846 the most exciting to the most boring role or event that you wanna um 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:45.936 consider. I think what I would, I mean, I have done civil disobedience for 00:13:45.969 --> 00:13:50.956 the movement. When back in 2010, I decided to get arrested because we 00:13:50.989 --> 00:13:57.206 needed to push for the Dream Act. I have um participated in a lawsuit 00:13:57.239 --> 00:14:02.287 against Governor Jan Brewer in the state. I did the depositions and uh I 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:06.417 was playing Arizona Dream Coalition was a plaintiff but because I was the 00:14:06.450 --> 00:14:12.956 president, I was represented in most of this um activities. I go to 00:14:12.989 --> 00:14:20.255 protests. Um I, there's a lot of strategy that has to go through every 00:14:20.288 --> 00:14:24.066 time that you're going to do any type of action, whether it's a press 00:14:24.099 --> 00:14:30.755 release, uh March. Um Anything that you want to do a press conference, 00:14:30.788 --> 00:14:36.206 there has to be some type of strategy and um uh some people would think 00:14:36.239 --> 00:14:40.417 that those are the most exciting then the most challenging and bo will be 00:14:40.450 --> 00:14:45.606 going door to door motivating people to go out and vote. I have done that 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:53.226 I have done fundraising writing to funders and explaining why this is 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:57.936 important and why do we need those resources to continue, continue to do 00:14:57.969 --> 00:15:05.025 the work that we do? And um yeah, that's, I, I consider that I do pretty 00:15:05.058 --> 00:15:08.596 much a lot of stuff. Right? And then with that, like, how did you get 00:15:08.629 --> 00:15:11.157 involved with the movement? Like, was it, did you meet someone that 00:15:11.190 --> 00:15:14.976 influenced you or was it more like your own personal? You just really 00:15:15.009 --> 00:15:16.927 wanted to get involved? Because I know you said you've been involved since 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:24.135 2008. So just how did you get involved with any movement itself? So I 00:15:24.168 --> 00:15:28.177 think the movement has always been there, right? Like if we talked about 00:15:28.210 --> 00:15:31.856 discrimination and everything, like we had civil rights, the Chicano 00:15:31.889 --> 00:15:37.037 movement. And there was a, a point in my life where I was about to 00:15:37.070 --> 00:15:42.427 graduate. Well, not really, not about to graduate. It was back in 2006 00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:46.667 when proposition 300 passed and I was the first anti-immigrant law 00:15:46.700 --> 00:15:53.765 targeted to students and students like me that, that needed to pay, they 00:15:53.798 --> 00:15:58.696 wanted to take away their scholarships and increase their tuition, almost 00:15:58.729 --> 00:16:06.005 tripled it. And um I always thought that I was the only one attending a su 00:16:06.038 --> 00:16:09.736 all of my friends that had the same situation as me that were undocumented 00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:15.686 , couldn't make it through college. And so the friends I knew in Car 00:16:15.719 --> 00:16:20.456 Hayden, they didn't go to college and then the friends that I met at 00:16:20.489 --> 00:16:24.246 college couldn't really relate to me because when I would tell them and 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:29.385 say, hey, I have this problem, I'm undocumented. They thought that I was 00:16:29.418 --> 00:16:34.537 making a joke. They didn't understand it and we just never talked about it. 00:16:34.570 --> 00:16:41.856 So I didn't, I never met somebody like me until proposition 300 passed. 00:16:41.889 --> 00:16:48.596 And the funds, the scholarship stardust start. I think that was, I think 00:16:48.629 --> 00:16:53.096 that that's what it was called start that scholarship. Um They created 00:16:53.129 --> 00:16:56.616 that and then that kind of disappeared and then they created the American 00:16:56.649 --> 00:17:00.385 Dream Fund. So when the American Dream Fund scholarship was created, they 00:17:00.418 --> 00:17:05.996 called a meeting. And on that meeting, uh when I went, I wasn't really 00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:09.785 expecting anything. But when I walked in this room, there's a full, it's 00:17:09.818 --> 00:17:15.746 full of students. And even though that we didn't talk about it at that 00:17:15.779 --> 00:17:19.736 specific moment, the assumption is that if you were there because you were 00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:25.776 undocumented and we passed down a list. Uh It was like a sign up sheet if 00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:28.226 you guys want to receive more information and if you guys want to connect 00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:34.446 , so then we started talking on blackboard and from blackboard, we thought 00:17:34.479 --> 00:17:40.246 was our conversations were going to be read and we wanted more privacy and 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:44.166 we went to Google Groups and that's how the movement started and 00:17:44.199 --> 00:17:51.847 specifically in Arizona for me. And um that's how I got involved. I got 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:56.467 involved because they took her away um my scholarships and they increased 00:17:56.500 --> 00:18:01.416 my tuition and, and a lot of people decided to get involved at that moment 00:18:01.449 --> 00:18:05.676 and create a group. And at the beginning, it was not complicated at all. 00:18:05.709 --> 00:18:09.746 And I don't think if I looking back, I don't think any of us really 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:15.726 imagine what that small group of students would have created today. That 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:20.127 is known as the Arizona Dr Co because that group of students was only 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:24.647 talking about how do you file your tax returns? How do you open a bank 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:30.805 account? How do you get a job? Um How do you open your LLC? So you can um 00:18:30.838 --> 00:18:37.516 create a business. So it was more of support. Um And uh little by little, 00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:42.637 we, we started getting more involved. OK. Um And then do you feel that the 00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:48.795 immigration reform, should we focus at the local state or federal level? 00:18:48.828 --> 00:18:56.717 There's a famous saying that says all politics is local and um I think we 00:18:56.750 --> 00:19:04.750 need change, needs to happen everywhere. And definitely we need like 00:19:05.949 --> 00:19:11.607 legislation at the federal level. But if you look at how Congress is 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:19.236 composed, they get elected at the local level. So for me, um we need to 00:19:19.269 --> 00:19:24.776 change things in house in order to make a bigger change nationwide. So I 00:19:24.809 --> 00:19:31.967 personally prioritize local battles rather than 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:39.196 national, but we definitely need both. Uh And then how do you feel about 00:19:39.229 --> 00:19:46.137 the slogan? Undocumented and unafraid? That was like used or is used? Like 00:19:46.170 --> 00:19:49.847 what are your feelings towards that slogan? Because at least I experienced 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:54.035 a lot of people during Dream Summer had very different opinions about it. 00:19:54.068 --> 00:19:57.496 So like what are your opinions or your feelings towards that slogan? I 00:19:57.529 --> 00:20:02.976 think it depends on where you live, right? So if you live in the most anti 00:20:03.009 --> 00:20:09.137 immigrant states and you say undocumented and unafraid um for some 00:20:09.170 --> 00:20:16.476 indicators, it can mean power. Uh For me, it means a defining moment indi 00:20:16.509 --> 00:20:21.097 individually a defining moment for the organization that I have been part 00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:26.156 of. Oh, the reason to my coalition since I've been part of it, since, 00:20:26.189 --> 00:20:33.295 since its existence. And I think that was a moment of growth for, for me 00:20:33.328 --> 00:20:37.926 as an individual and for the organization because we needed to come out 00:20:37.959 --> 00:20:45.959 and say we're undocumented and I'm afraid. So that word means power for me 00:20:46.709 --> 00:20:52.335 or that saying or that slogan. All right. And then how do you feel about 00:20:52.368 --> 00:20:58.637 the term documented? Because I also heard both sides of that, the opinion 00:20:58.670 --> 00:21:01.835 about the term do documented. 00:21:01.868 --> 00:21:04.426 Um 00:21:04.459 --> 00:21:11.847 I think it's just another label. Um And we live in a society where we have 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:16.585 to put labels and, and everything and hashtags for everything. I don't 00:21:16.618 --> 00:21:22.266 necessarily have any opinion whether it's bad or good. I just, other than 00:21:22.299 --> 00:21:28.357 when I said it, people, some, a lot of people don't know what it means and 00:21:28.390 --> 00:21:32.815 uh they get it confused with they think that we're making a grammar or 00:21:32.848 --> 00:21:39.526 something. Um, I don't think I really have much opinion about, about it. 00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:44.357 All right. And then, um, moving on to, like, with the labels. Like, what 00:21:44.390 --> 00:21:47.686 does it mean to you to be American? 00:21:47.719 --> 00:21:52.597 What does it mean to be American? What does it mean to be American? It 00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:58.137 means for me that you don't really give up and that you continue fighting 00:21:58.170 --> 00:22:05.526 and that your hard work will pay off. It doesn't mean I think a lot of 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:13.387 people labeled it as, oh, you were born in, this is border or not. Um It's 00:22:13.420 --> 00:22:20.236 more than location, it's more than country of birth. And it's i it's a 00:22:20.269 --> 00:22:26.647 trait that comes with it. Like if you're an American, you can prevail and 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:32.756 , and uh no matter how hard the obstacles are there that you're still 00:22:32.789 --> 00:22:37.026 gonna continue fighting. All right. And then how do you feel about the 00:22:37.059 --> 00:22:43.006 term dreamer? Um Because I've also heard both pros and cons about it and 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:46.246 people are like, well, I don't consider myself a dreamer. And then how do 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:52.397 you feel about the term itself? I love it. I personally love the, the term 00:22:52.430 --> 00:23:00.186 dreamer. And I think it goes beyond, um I think you can limit a term, but 00:23:00.219 --> 00:23:05.456 for me, it goes beyond than just, oh, a dreamer is a person that was 00:23:05.489 --> 00:23:10.137 brought to this country before the age of 16 and qualifies for the dream 00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:18.170 act. For me. That's not what it means. Um I think for every individual, 00:23:21.170 --> 00:23:25.446 for every individual 00:23:25.479 --> 00:23:29.516 that exist in the world at one point in their life, they had a dream and 00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:37.549 they still have dreams. And is that person that has been told? No, you can 00:23:38.059 --> 00:23:43.676 do this. No, you can do that. And that person at the end prevailed and 00:23:43.709 --> 00:23:49.196 said, look, well, I'm using what I have and, and showing you what that I 00:23:49.229 --> 00:23:55.706 can do. All I sent my mind to, um, that's what it means for me and then 00:23:55.739 --> 00:24:00.009 that's all I have the questions. Cool.