WEBVTT 00:00:00.009 --> 00:00:05.606 Very interesting. This is Boris Ali interviewing Maria Marino and on June 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:13.566 21st, 2016 at 4:26 p.m. All right. So, all right. So we're going from the 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:20.276 postpartum depression after I had Eden. Well, um 00:00:20.309 --> 00:00:25.706 it, it, my husband was really abusive at the time and stuff like that. And 00:00:25.739 --> 00:00:31.976 um when I was go over there to the other side of the couch and eat it, go 00:00:32.009 --> 00:00:36.476 to the other side of the couch. Sophia go 00:00:36.509 --> 00:00:42.097 stay there. 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:47.856 Hm. Kids. 00:00:47.889 --> 00:00:51.926 But after that, I really did struggle with a lot of depression, like a lot 00:00:51.959 --> 00:00:59.277 of outbursts like angry sh be quiet. Sophia. 00:00:59.310 --> 00:01:06.656 Um Oh gosh, they keep making me lose my place. Um 00:01:06.689 --> 00:01:11.305 After I had Eden cause like I said previously, you know, my ex-husband was 00:01:11.338 --> 00:01:15.915 , he was abusive and like the situation I had left him in after I had 00:01:15.948 --> 00:01:19.786 Jocelyn, you know, because it was a bad domestic dispute and they say 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:26.117 having the new kid, hey be quiet, quit, quit encouraging her, Jocelyn, 00:01:26.150 --> 00:01:29.736 quit it. 00:01:29.769 --> 00:01:33.257 Um And then after Halloween eaten, they're saying triggered a lot of that 00:01:33.290 --> 00:01:37.786 like memories like flashbacks and stuff like that. Um A lot of it. Like, I 00:01:37.819 --> 00:01:43.546 guess I wasn't really willing to remember. Um, 00:01:43.579 --> 00:01:47.055 and I did have to go to a lot of counseling and stuff like that and I 00:01:47.088 --> 00:01:51.736 wasn't in a hospital for about a week. I had a really bad breakdown. It 00:01:51.769 --> 00:01:57.986 was like, oh, it was horrible. It was really bad. And, um, I went out 00:01:58.019 --> 00:02:01.236 there and I talked a lot and I got put on some medication and stuff and 00:02:01.269 --> 00:02:06.096 that really did help. I did the counseling but then I got pregnant with 00:02:06.129 --> 00:02:09.686 Sophia and that was a struggle to come to terms with again cause I didn't 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:15.555 plan on having 1/4 kid, especially since I have my teeth tied and I really 00:02:15.588 --> 00:02:21.797 wasn't planning on it. And so I was really honest with my doctor about 00:02:21.830 --> 00:02:25.166 everything. Like I said, I had a bad birthing experience up here. So I had 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:31.805 chosen to go to um, Scottsdale for my last one and because Michael's are, 00:02:31.838 --> 00:02:35.896 my mother-in-law works down there or worked down there as a medical coder. 00:02:35.929 --> 00:02:41.096 So it worked out really great for us. And um, he's a really great doctor. 00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:48.066 And so you scheduled an induction. Um Yeah, well, we were aware, I mean, 00:02:48.099 --> 00:02:50.547 we were aware of the pressure. So we talked about that what we were gonna 00:02:50.580 --> 00:02:53.616 do after that, we talked about the birth control and we talked about 00:02:53.649 --> 00:02:57.805 deliveries and they knew that I was a fast delivery because they looked at 00:02:57.838 --> 00:03:01.036 all my files and I told him about my pregnancy history. He asked what I 00:03:01.069 --> 00:03:07.656 wanted and, um, like I said, we decided to go ahead and as long as I 00:03:07.689 --> 00:03:11.846 haven't had her, he said, if you do go into labor earlier than like the 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:16.156 last week, he's all like, um, just go to hospital up there and we'll get 00:03:16.189 --> 00:03:19.606 you down here somehow. We'll figure it out from there. But I would like 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:22.616 you to be down in the valley in last week. And so they scheduled for like 00:03:22.649 --> 00:03:27.596 the 26th or like, no, it was the 27th because I did have her the same day. 00:03:27.629 --> 00:03:35.629 They called me in. Um, but, um, we were hoping not until then. So Michael 00:03:36.088 --> 00:03:39.327 really didn't want it. Like I said, like that last couple of weeks of 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:43.876 pregnancy, like we had like no Zeps or nothing. It was just, it, it was 00:03:43.909 --> 00:03:51.166 hard on both of us. So, but I mean, can do, you know, he didn't want me to 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:54.096 go into labor up here because he didn't want me to count good birth up 00:03:54.129 --> 00:04:01.475 here. And so, um, we went down there, we waited for a call where we got a 00:04:01.508 --> 00:04:05.305 call anywhere from like 2 a.m. to like 10 a.m. and they didn't call till 00:04:05.338 --> 00:04:13.338 like five. And so anyways, I went in and they started inducing me and, 00:04:13.679 --> 00:04:17.524 um, the neural, uh, the, 00:04:17.557 --> 00:04:20.524 the neurologist was getting ready to go to surgery. So I said I can get 00:04:20.557 --> 00:04:25.796 the epidural now or wait until after. And, um, the nurse suggested at that 00:04:25.829 --> 00:04:28.904 time do it right then because my labors go fast. So, if I go into labor 00:04:28.937 --> 00:04:32.075 while he's in surgery, it'll be a natural labor. So, if you don't want 00:04:32.108 --> 00:04:38.205 natural labor, get it now. So I got it then and I didn't really, it just 00:04:38.238 --> 00:04:41.067 kind of slow it down a little bit. It did take a little bit longer for me 00:04:41.100 --> 00:04:46.026 to go into labor. Um, once I did go into labor after they, um, broke my 00:04:46.059 --> 00:04:51.106 water, um, it is a really quick delivery. She was only like two pushes. 00:04:51.139 --> 00:04:54.986 Sophia was so quick and the doctor barely made it and the nurse was 00:04:55.019 --> 00:04:59.486 really trying not to get me to push and they felt really bigger to push 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:03.616 and um, she didn't want me to but she, like, she's just like, right there 00:05:03.649 --> 00:05:08.846 , like I know I need to push and she, um, the doctor finally came in one 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.586 push, her head was out and cleaned her up real quick and second push, she 00:05:12.619 --> 00:05:18.437 was out really easy. And then the placenta came out really easy too. It 00:05:18.470 --> 00:05:21.955 was a really nice delivery. Like, I love the nurses. The doctors, my 00:05:21.988 --> 00:05:26.096 doctor was just right. He was a really good doctor. I really, I really did 00:05:26.129 --> 00:05:31.656 like it. And he is the older guy and I mean, he's even been in like the 00:05:31.689 --> 00:05:35.296 Phoenix best doctors or whatever, you know, he had a, he was on the cover 00:05:35.329 --> 00:05:39.366 of it one time, like he has it in his office or whatever. And he was a 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:43.986 great doctor. And, um, 00:05:44.019 --> 00:05:49.495 after that, you know, breastfeeding went really well with her. Um, and I 00:05:49.528 --> 00:05:53.745 did try to stay off medication for a really long time because by the time 00:05:53.778 --> 00:05:56.346 I had gotten pregnant with her, I had actually weaned off all my 00:05:56.379 --> 00:06:02.455 medications. So probably, like, maybe like a month prior to actually 00:06:02.488 --> 00:06:05.817 getting pregnant with her because we did the timeline. I had actually been 00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:10.166 finished weaning off all the antidepressants and whatnot that I was on for 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:15.536 about a month now. And so I was taking it, I try not to take anything for 00:06:15.569 --> 00:06:19.257 the longest time and I ended up nursing her for a long time before I went 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:24.536 back off. Not a full year like I wanted. But, so I got some. Were you 00:06:24.569 --> 00:06:28.096 worried about postpartum depression? Oh, yeah, it was, it was a big 00:06:28.129 --> 00:06:32.877 concern. And I mean, I, I really did struggle. I think what worked out 00:06:32.910 --> 00:06:37.596 really great with, helping out with that is like with my ex-husband. He 00:06:37.629 --> 00:06:43.205 didn't want me to work while I was pregnant at all. And then, um, with 00:06:43.238 --> 00:06:49.046 Eden, I was working at a bookstore that's like coffee, coffee shop. Um, 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:54.007 but I kept getting really sick all the time and, you know, morning 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:59.687 sickness was just horrible. It's a terrible thing. So, um, I quit over 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:03.805 there and I didn't work and I stayed home for a lot of time with all the 00:07:03.838 --> 00:07:07.796 kids and that's really hard. And so I think what really helped this time 00:07:07.829 --> 00:07:14.176 was I was working at the time at the casino and I was able to go back to 00:07:14.209 --> 00:07:18.145 work and not have to stay home all the time. I had something to look 00:07:18.178 --> 00:07:22.455 forward to after delivering and stuff like that. And, you know, my job was 00:07:22.488 --> 00:07:27.036 awesome. Like, if she was really like fussy or something like that and he 00:07:27.069 --> 00:07:30.926 just couldn't get her to eat anything because she had a hard time taking a 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.075 bottle. Eden had a hard time taking a bottle and she had to get put on a 00:07:34.108 --> 00:07:40.296 bottle. Um, but if she just want to eat for Michael, then he would just 00:07:40.329 --> 00:07:43.276 bring her down there and I would go sit in one of the rooms and I'd, I'd 00:07:43.309 --> 00:07:46.856 get to nurse her and stuff like that and I could either put up my little 00:07:46.889 --> 00:07:50.786 sign and forward all my calls in the hotel or, um, if there's someone else 00:07:50.819 --> 00:07:54.796 working with me, it didn't really matter. It's a hotel, it's not hard work. 00:07:54.829 --> 00:08:00.736 That's my opinion. It wasn't. And then, um, that really helps a lot. It 00:08:00.769 --> 00:08:04.515 really did, being able to go back to work and my husband was a stay at 00:08:04.548 --> 00:08:09.495 home dad for a long time. Did it also help knowing that you have a, a plan 00:08:09.528 --> 00:08:13.895 which was to like, ultimately get the hysterectomy. Mhm. That helped a lot 00:08:13.928 --> 00:08:17.055 too, knowing that I wasn't getting pregnant again and especially just 00:08:17.088 --> 00:08:20.257 talking to Michael because before it was just like, oh, I just don't want 00:08:20.290 --> 00:08:22.676 more kids, I just don't want more kids. And then, you know, in the back of 00:08:22.709 --> 00:08:25.046 your head you're like, you're still young, you, you might change your mind 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:28.817 now. But, you know, with the way Michael put it with me, you know, you 00:08:28.850 --> 00:08:32.537 know, you have four kids if like, we break up and you go and you have 00:08:32.570 --> 00:08:35.246 another kid with somebody else and you guys break up and you're stuck with 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:38.576 another kid and who knows if he's gonna be taking care of them. He's like 00:08:38.609 --> 00:08:42.797 , oh, take care of my kids. He was like, no, and I know his family would 00:08:42.830 --> 00:08:49.196 always help Michael comes from a really good family. So, um 00:08:49.229 --> 00:08:51.765 just the way he put it though, it's just like, you know, I don't want that 00:08:51.798 --> 00:08:55.645 to happen to you. You're a good mom now for, I think is really good for 00:08:55.678 --> 00:09:01.946 you. And it's like, um, you know, he adjusted really well to going from no 00:09:01.979 --> 00:09:09.979 kids to two, then three and then four pretty quickly, you know, and, um, 00:09:11.229 --> 00:09:14.385 was his family supportive of you? I mean, what did they accept you? 00:09:14.418 --> 00:09:20.236 Whatever. Yeah. His family was, was very supportive. You know, it, it's a 00:09:20.269 --> 00:09:25.775 good, decent relationship. Um, his mom is really close to Eden because 00:09:25.808 --> 00:09:30.917 it's her first grandchild, like, they're so close. Um, but now they 00:09:30.950 --> 00:09:36.116 recently moved to Texas probably about a year ago almost. And so, um, it's 00:09:36.149 --> 00:09:39.066 been a while since she's actually seen her grandma. She came here like 00:09:39.099 --> 00:09:42.446 about a month ago or so. She was really close to her grandma because her 00:09:42.479 --> 00:09:45.936 grandma used to live up here and they, she was such a big help with like 00:09:45.969 --> 00:09:52.557 babysitting and everything. It is awesome. And then um 00:09:52.590 --> 00:09:57.907 yeah, his other side of the family, his dad's side of the family was 00:09:57.940 --> 00:10:03.096 really nice. They're very welcoming 00:10:03.129 --> 00:10:07.196 and that it, it, it really did help. And by the time I had Sophia, me and 00:10:07.229 --> 00:10:12.265 Michael were married after I finally said yes, I was maybe like 667 months 00:10:12.298 --> 00:10:19.706 pregnant when I finally said yes and yeah, giving me the ring and I went 00:10:19.739 --> 00:10:22.706 to work the next day after he had given me the ring and I got a phone call 00:10:22.739 --> 00:10:27.856 at work and he's all like, hey, he's all like next week Thursday at 10 00:10:27.889 --> 00:10:32.686 o'clock like we got an appointment at the courthouse to get married. Uh 00:10:32.719 --> 00:10:36.726 next week. He's like, yeah, and, and he knew I didn't want to plan a 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:41.706 wedding. I, he knew I, if I ever got married again, I'd rather I don't 00:10:41.739 --> 00:10:44.525 wanna do a whole wedding thing. Eventually I told him we'll do like a, a 00:10:44.558 --> 00:10:48.736 wedding and everything like that like a show and what not, but not now 00:10:48.769 --> 00:10:52.417 cause I don't wanna do that. I was like, I wanna plan a wedding. No way. 00:10:52.450 --> 00:10:56.686 So when I finally said yes, I think he really wanted to seal the deal 00:10:56.719 --> 00:11:00.677 really quick. So, because he had already paid for everything, he already 00:11:00.710 --> 00:11:05.297 done everything, you know, it was all set to go. I had to do a sign and 00:11:05.330 --> 00:11:10.096 wait for the paper to come back and then go and we were married like a 00:11:10.129 --> 00:11:14.826 week later. And then, and actually the day we got married, my mom and dad 00:11:14.859 --> 00:11:18.625 were supposed to be our witnesses because my mom and dad are really old 00:11:18.658 --> 00:11:22.635 and we wanted them to actually see me get married this time because the 00:11:22.668 --> 00:11:27.726 first time I got married is up in Washington on, uh, Woodby Island. It's, 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:32.765 it's fun. It was right there on the beach at a deception pass in Whitby 00:11:32.798 --> 00:11:36.446 Island. It's really pretty. I wonder your parents were you just, they're 00:11:36.479 --> 00:11:41.385 like late in life. My mom, well, my, um, 00:11:41.418 --> 00:11:46.927 I'm not close with my real mom. I'm not. And that's actually, um, you know 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:51.116 , my grandparents raised me, my grandma and grandpa. Um, so I called them 00:11:51.149 --> 00:11:56.826 mom and dad. My biological mom never raised me and my biological father. 00:11:56.859 --> 00:12:01.427 He didn't raise me either and I didn't know them very well. And when I was 00:12:01.460 --> 00:12:07.116 like 14, he had actually shot himself. So I never really knew him. But I 00:12:07.149 --> 00:12:11.096 have my grandpa and that was dad to me and I'm not close with my 00:12:11.129 --> 00:12:14.967 biological mom, like, at all, even though, like, I could show you right 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.246 now, like, the house I grew up in it. Like you can see her right over 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:24.456 there. She's around the hill and then my biological mom lives three houses 00:12:24.489 --> 00:12:28.385 down when you raise on the reservation. 00:12:28.418 --> 00:12:31.297 Yeah. We all grew up like that. That was a third for her. I don't know why 00:12:31.330 --> 00:12:34.385 she didn't raise me. 00:12:34.418 --> 00:12:39.566 We'll keep playing with your blankie. It'll warm you up. 00:12:39.599 --> 00:12:46.116 Put the other one on top of you. Mhm. 00:12:46.149 --> 00:12:51.996 So cute. She is awesome. She was my little surprise that she had to be 00:12:52.029 --> 00:12:58.316 here, I guess. Are there any, um, are they Apache? Yeah, we're all Apache. 00:12:58.349 --> 00:13:01.106 We're all registered members of the tribe except for my husband. My 00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:06.875 husband is the only one. He's not, he's white and Mexican. So, but all the 00:13:06.908 --> 00:13:12.635 kids are me and all the kids are. So it works out really good. Were there 00:13:12.668 --> 00:13:17.417 any traditions surrounding like birth that, that they shared with you? No. 00:13:17.450 --> 00:13:22.326 No. Like a lot of it's lost. A lot of it get passed down. Um, like I 00:13:22.359 --> 00:13:28.927 never learned how to speak Apache and um, not very many do, um, a lot of 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:33.436 the traditions were really gone. You know, it was just normal life, you 00:13:33.469 --> 00:13:40.407 know, nothing like nothing really, too special about it. So, um, 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:45.287 when you reflect back on your experiences is, and sometimes we ask people 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.976 this, it's a very tough question. Can you come up with like a word or a 00:13:49.009 --> 00:13:51.976 phrasing of words that kind of describes your experience? Because part of 00:13:52.009 --> 00:13:56.967 the project is putting these stories into like themes, you know, and like 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:00.177 themes that emerge. Sometimes this question helps us like faith or 00:14:00.210 --> 00:14:06.297 connection or trauma or sensory, like the physicality of the experience. 00:14:06.330 --> 00:14:13.217 Is there anything that comes to mind? 00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:20.436 Hm, 00:14:20.469 --> 00:14:23.936 I think is uh affectionate, 00:14:23.969 --> 00:14:29.307 you know, I didn't grow up growing up on a res reservation. Like, um, 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.765 considering the age of my parents, you know, they grew up on an old 00:14:32.798 --> 00:14:37.677 reservation, they grew up, um, you know, they're really old Indians, like 00:14:37.710 --> 00:14:41.157 they're, they're elders, you know, you listen to your elders, they're, 00:14:41.190 --> 00:14:45.287 they're very old and, um, 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.875 it was a really rough life for them. 00:14:48.908 --> 00:14:53.427 Uh, and there just wasn't a whole lot of affection. Like, I think one 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:56.907 thing that really, um, frustrates my husband, which is something I still 00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:01.436 had a hard time with was like, really affection, like touching, touching 00:15:01.469 --> 00:15:06.265 was a really hard thing. 00:15:06.298 --> 00:15:11.765 Yeah, you can just turn the knob down. Yeah. Affection like, and it really 00:15:11.798 --> 00:15:14.385 wasn't, um, 00:15:14.418 --> 00:15:19.236 you know, my mom, like my grandma, like, keep in mind just like old, you 00:15:19.269 --> 00:15:24.956 know, to her when you raise kids, you know. Um, uh, it was an abuse back 00:15:24.989 --> 00:15:31.116 then, you know. Um, but, but I did get constantly hit by my mom and my dad 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:37.206 would constantly get mad at her for it. Um, and it was a struggle growing 00:15:37.239 --> 00:15:41.275 up because there just wasn't, there just wasn't a whole lot of affection 00:15:41.308 --> 00:15:45.946 there and when, and with my ex-husband, you know, it wasn't a whole lot of 00:15:45.979 --> 00:15:50.746 , like, I think I, I fell for him really hard because I was so young just 00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:55.356 because he was affectionate towards me. And, you know, my parents really 00:15:55.389 --> 00:15:59.157 weren't like I knew they loved me. But it was maybe my mom still have a 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:04.736 strange relationship. Um, but, or my grandma, but I call her mom, I don't 00:16:04.769 --> 00:16:09.787 really talk to my real mom, whatever. I care less. She has her own issues. 00:16:09.820 --> 00:16:13.885 She can deal with a me. 00:16:13.918 --> 00:16:16.946 But 00:16:16.979 --> 00:16:21.537 he, he grew up in like a very affectionate household, like his mom and dad 00:16:21.570 --> 00:16:25.005 , like, I guess, like, what he would tell me when they grew, you know, his 00:16:25.038 --> 00:16:28.066 dad always loved, his mom, always held her, put his arms around her, 00:16:28.099 --> 00:16:31.037 touched her, kissed her, you know, it was always very affectionate, very 00:16:31.070 --> 00:16:34.157 loving, you know, and that's how they grew up and they were used to it and 00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:37.505 stuff like that. And, you know, my ex husband didn't touch me in a very 00:16:37.538 --> 00:16:41.557 loving way, you know. So touch for me was a really affectionate touch was 00:16:41.590 --> 00:16:48.186 a really big issue. It, it, and it's a struggle still but it's better and 00:16:48.219 --> 00:16:53.265 my husband's a very affectionate person and it took a very long time for 00:16:53.298 --> 00:16:58.015 me to get comfortable, I guess with him touching me, 00:16:58.048 --> 00:17:03.885 like, just like rubbing your hair or anything like that. And then um I 00:17:03.918 --> 00:17:09.325 just think cover for all my own skin. Like I never understood how you love 00:17:09.358 --> 00:17:12.226 me because I was like, so uncomfortable, you know, and it worried me like 00:17:12.259 --> 00:17:16.075 , I don't like him touching me. Like I like, you know, image was a big 00:17:16.108 --> 00:17:21.196 thing, you know, and it took a long time for me to get over it and to 00:17:21.229 --> 00:17:27.206 realize, you know, he really does love me. And um 00:17:27.239 --> 00:17:31.357 he's a very affectionate guy. He, he really is. And, you know, it, it 00:17:31.390 --> 00:17:34.676 frustrated him for a long time that I really didn't like him, like 00:17:34.709 --> 00:17:38.117 touching me or like broke me or put his hand or anything. You know, it was 00:17:38.150 --> 00:17:42.597 , it was a struggle for a really long time, but we've, we've managed to 00:17:42.630 --> 00:17:48.446 get on. But that's, I think one thing with the nursing, 00:17:48.479 --> 00:17:52.897 the intimacy, like I enjoyed nursing. I didn't nurse Jonathan very long. 00:17:52.930 --> 00:17:56.236 It's a struggle nursing Jonathan again. I think a lot of it was like the 00:17:56.269 --> 00:18:01.397 affection, the touching and, you know, having to like, 00:18:01.430 --> 00:18:09.430 expose my breasts and then being only like 19 and your first kid. And it, 00:18:09.489 --> 00:18:13.956 it wasn't a healthy relationship and being married already by 19. You know 00:18:13.989 --> 00:18:21.785 , it was, it was a lot to take in. It really was. And um 00:18:21.818 --> 00:18:28.006 I did enjoy the nurse. I enjoyed that quiet time that, but it, it was hard 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:32.436 with Jo, with Jocelyn. Um, it got a little bit easier cause I knew more 00:18:32.469 --> 00:18:36.486 what to expect with nursing, you know, and how it felt a little bit more 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:44.035 and, you know, um I did better with her and I enjoyed it and Jocelyn, you 00:18:44.068 --> 00:18:50.387 know, she, she's a very affectionate, very sensitive girl, very. So I 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:53.627 think that really helped a lot because she is very loving and having to 00:18:53.660 --> 00:18:56.397 give her that affection. 00:18:56.430 --> 00:19:02.305 Um you know, with Eden, it was great too. And I mean she's really close 00:19:02.338 --> 00:19:05.236 with her grandma though. She really is when her grandma was here and her 00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:08.506 grandma took her a lot when she was a baby because it, it helped us out a 00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:15.795 lot. It really didn't then after I had Sophia but Sophia just um 00:19:15.828 --> 00:19:20.867 God is such a great experience nursing Sophia and like now like with 00:19:20.900 --> 00:19:24.535 Sophia, she really is like my most affectionate child, like with me, like 00:19:24.568 --> 00:19:28.956 me and her really do have a very good, like loving bond, you know, cause 00:19:28.989 --> 00:19:33.666 we did, I did nurse her the longest 00:19:33.699 --> 00:19:37.506 and it seems like, yeah, that, I mean that was the biggest thing that was 00:19:37.539 --> 00:19:41.607 just affection, trying to be affectionate. I really wasn't an affectionate 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:47.627 person, like not at all. So that was like a really big thing that like the 00:19:47.660 --> 00:19:52.986 kids really did kind of help me learn and then, you know, my husband 00:19:53.019 --> 00:19:56.986 really did help push with that because he's like, you know, I want my kids 00:19:57.019 --> 00:19:59.897 to, I want to be affectionate around my kids. He's like, because I want my 00:19:59.930 --> 00:20:03.887 kids to be affectionate. You know, he's like, I want my kids to see me, 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.555 like, talk to you and loving you and kissing you and it's just like you 00:20:07.588 --> 00:20:12.127 never saw that and, you know, my parents were old, they didn't, they, in 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:19.656 their old ways, they, they don't do that stuff no more, you know. 00:20:19.689 --> 00:20:25.766 So, no, it really seems like you've, um, you know, almost been like, in a 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:31.647 long term, like, um recovery really from things that are transparent in 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:35.696 your past and like growing into the person you are today and that your 00:20:35.729 --> 00:20:41.107 family has really helped you to, it really has like, um, I'm really 00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:44.516 different than my family. I'm really different than my mom and my sisters. 00:20:44.549 --> 00:20:48.196 Uh, a lot of it is because of Michael. He really did help me come into my 00:20:48.229 --> 00:20:55.285 own, like being a mom and stuff like that. Um, my family, I'm just not 00:20:55.318 --> 00:20:59.617 like them. It, it wasn't a healthy, can you done? It wasn't that healthy 00:20:59.650 --> 00:21:02.976 of an environment? I would say you don't realize it at the time, you know. 00:21:03.009 --> 00:21:06.456 But when you think back you realize and then there's stuff you remember 00:21:06.489 --> 00:21:10.347 that you have just forgotten. You're just like, wow, you're like, was my 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:14.315 childhood really like that bad? Like realizing I didn't grow up without a 00:21:14.348 --> 00:21:22.348 dad. You know, that was something different. And then, like, 00:21:22.739 --> 00:21:26.166 you know, I never thought of my grandma and grandpa as my grandma and 00:21:26.199 --> 00:21:31.706 grandpa, you know, and, um, 00:21:31.739 --> 00:21:36.575 as far as my mom goes, like, I'm, I'm my mom, you know, and I don't think 00:21:36.608 --> 00:21:39.736 she really tried to help with 00:21:39.769 --> 00:21:43.696 giving me that relationship with my biological mom, which is, you know, 00:21:43.729 --> 00:21:49.785 her oldest daughter. You know, I don't think, I think she was happy to 00:21:49.818 --> 00:21:54.617 have me with her because I think she, because I think it gave her like a, 00:21:54.650 --> 00:21:59.156 a second chance at parenting because with the like environment, like they 00:21:59.189 --> 00:22:03.085 raised, you know, my real mom and then my two sister and then my two 00:22:03.118 --> 00:22:06.967 sisters in, they were like heavy drinkers. They partied a lot. You know, 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.377 it wasn't, they were very abusive towards each other and my sister saw 00:22:10.410 --> 00:22:15.436 that a lot, you know, I, it, it really did affect them profoundly to this 00:22:15.469 --> 00:22:18.887 day. You, like, they have a lot of problem. Like, my mom has a lot of 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:24.315 mental issues going on and, um, and my mom's a caretaker now, my um sister 00:22:24.348 --> 00:22:29.016 , well, she, she'd be my aunt. Um, but I think just because the way she 00:22:29.049 --> 00:22:31.986 grew up and because it really wasn't an affectionate environment, like 00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:36.736 she's never had a relationship, um, she herself started partying and 00:22:36.769 --> 00:22:41.367 drinking and doing drugs and she was very young, you know, and she's, um, 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:45.847 my mom was very abusive towards her. I know that and she doesn't have any 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:53.880 kids and she abuses alcohol and pills and, um, now, uh, maybe like with 00:22:54.170 --> 00:22:58.206 almost two years now, I mean, the abuse finally I gave her like two 00:22:58.239 --> 00:23:01.857 strokes and a couple of heart attacks. So now she's in a, a wheelchair and 00:23:01.890 --> 00:23:08.627 she can't use her left arm and I am her, um, caretaker now and, um, she's 00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:11.825 never had to really work hard and just growing up with my mom and stuff 00:23:11.858 --> 00:23:16.847 like that the way she did with my mom at the time, um, she's gonna need 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:21.776 someone to take care of her. She doesn't have those life skills. My other 00:23:21.809 --> 00:23:26.496 sister or my other aunt, the youngest of the three. I mean, she's, she's 00:23:26.529 --> 00:23:30.795 all right. She graduated high school and she's all right. I mean, and her 00:23:30.828 --> 00:23:35.607 marriage is, it's not an affectionate marriage. It, it's not, her husband 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.926 grew up in the same kind of environment like his parents did drugs. He 00:23:38.959 --> 00:23:41.717 lost him early, he lost his sister, you know. So they don't have a very 00:23:41.750 --> 00:23:47.887 affectionate relationship. So I can see the pattern in that. And um I 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:52.617 didn't really grow up like that. I didn't see the abuse but I didn't get 00:23:52.650 --> 00:23:58.847 the affection from it either. So, I mean, I really see like my mom never 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.416 breast fed. She said that was something she was told, like not to do that. 00:24:02.449 --> 00:24:05.097 No, don't do that. That's not right. You shouldn't expose yourself like 00:24:05.130 --> 00:24:10.016 that, you know, talking about sex is like a, no, no, we don't talk about 00:24:10.049 --> 00:24:13.526 that nasty stuff. We don't do that. You don't do that nasty stuff. It's, 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:19.186 you know, my mom and dad, you know, and then getting pregnant early. Oh, 00:24:19.219 --> 00:24:27.219 my God. Yeah. Really? You know, and I, at the time to biologically, like, 00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:32.377 my real mom, like, she has three kids. I'm the youngest of three. I have 00:24:32.410 --> 00:24:39.867 an older brother. Um, he's the oldest, let's see, he's 30. No, he's 31 now. 00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:45.107 I think he just turned 31. Um, but just because, like, I never really did 00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:48.506 have that relationship with them. Like I li, I grew up in a house, like 00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:51.976 you can see right here right on top of this hill. And my, they live right 00:24:52.009 --> 00:24:55.545 down this road, even when I was growing up, my biological mom and dad I 00:24:55.578 --> 00:25:00.946 live, like, right down here. And, um, 00:25:00.979 --> 00:25:06.835 you know, my older brother I'm not close with at all. I try here and there. 00:25:06.868 --> 00:25:12.325 Um, my older brother actually did. He, he was a heavy drug user for a 00:25:12.358 --> 00:25:16.535 long time and he, he was horrible person. And then actually he used to 00:25:16.568 --> 00:25:20.266 party with my ex husband once I introduced him to my ex-husband when I had 00:25:20.299 --> 00:25:24.526 first met with him and they used to party together and, um, my brother 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:27.946 knew about the abuse and he did like nothing. He didn't care. So it's 00:25:27.979 --> 00:25:33.127 really, and it's been a terrible relationship. Um, my sister who's a year 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.397 older than me. Me and her used to be pretty close as a kid. She struggles 00:25:37.430 --> 00:25:42.295 a lot with drugs, um, meth and heroin, stuff like that. She recently just 00:25:42.328 --> 00:25:46.585 got out of rehab. Uh, me and her were pregnant at the same time with our 00:25:46.618 --> 00:25:50.555 first. Um, they're both nine now. They were both born in January and she 00:25:50.588 --> 00:25:56.877 had a girl. Um, my biological mom is raising her, my sister just recently 00:25:56.910 --> 00:26:01.315 got out of rehab. And so she's up in Prescott right now trying to recover. 00:26:01.348 --> 00:26:06.156 She's like an outpatient type thing up there right now. Um, I don't know 00:26:06.189 --> 00:26:09.026 what's gonna happen with my niece. You know, here's your question. Was 00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:14.976 your ex physically abusive or mentally abusive? 00, he was terrible. He 00:26:15.009 --> 00:26:18.686 was. But, um, 00:26:18.719 --> 00:26:26.647 no, I really, I, I mean, Jonathan understands but I do 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:31.785 watch what I say around $10. Real dad because I don't want him to, like, 00:26:31.818 --> 00:26:34.446 get older. 00:26:34.479 --> 00:26:39.746 Well, put it in the room. Sophia go play. No, with that. They're ok. We 00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:46.147 probably shouldn't. Yeah, I probably should. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, I, 00:26:46.180 --> 00:26:49.637 we didn't grow up in, he, it wasn't a healthy environment growing up. It 00:26:49.670 --> 00:26:57.416 really wasn't. I was all alcohol. Yeah. I had my trouble with alcohol. 00:26:57.449 --> 00:27:04.436 No. Just be, do you feel like you've, um, you know, because of your kids 00:27:04.469 --> 00:27:08.055 and your husband now that you've become that you've taken like a different 00:27:08.088 --> 00:27:12.575 life path that could have happened. And you? Oh, I'm way more disciplined 00:27:12.608 --> 00:27:17.186 with my kids than my sister is, or, than my mom was with us. Um, I pay a 00:27:17.219 --> 00:27:21.325 lot more attention to my kids. Um, I think it, because I really want a lot 00:27:21.358 --> 00:27:25.766 of attention for my mom and dad but I never got, my dad was, his affection 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:30.117 was money for my dad. Like to my dad see something with money and stuff 00:27:30.150 --> 00:27:37.127 like that. My mom was, hmm. So, um, you know, I'm definitely different on 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:43.746 that aspect. Um, I don't constantly buy them stuff. Um, 00:27:43.779 --> 00:27:47.456 you know, it was a very unhealthy h he eating habit growing up and I, I 00:27:47.489 --> 00:27:53.456 had always been overweight. Um, you know, by the time I was, like, in 00:27:53.489 --> 00:27:58.597 73 I was like £200 and by the time I was, like, in high school I was like 00:27:58.630 --> 00:28:04.857 200 like, 15 or something. It was terrible. And, you know, I didn't learn 00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:09.006 about diet or nothing like that. And, 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:16.516 yeah, I really did change that a lot because I, I did get healthier. So I 00:28:16.549 --> 00:28:19.847 really don't. And I see them right now, like I said, I take care of my mom 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:26.506 and my sister now and I see they struggle a lot. Sophia be quiet, they 00:28:26.539 --> 00:28:32.176 struggle a lot with their health and stuff and I know I don't want to. So 00:28:32.209 --> 00:28:35.637 that's really changed as far as I try to get them to eat really well and 00:28:35.670 --> 00:28:38.785 better than, at least when I grew up, I drink a lot of water. I was never 00:28:38.818 --> 00:28:42.156 encouraged to drink water. I encouraged my kids, lots of water, you know, 00:28:42.189 --> 00:28:47.607 and like, I still tried to lose weight. Now I'm only like 100 and £80. And 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.117 I, I told my husband I was like, I can't remember the last time I actually 00:28:50.150 --> 00:28:54.006 weighed that much. Like, it has been a long time and he was like, yeah, he 00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:56.835 was like, I remember you in school. You always were a big girl. I like, I 00:28:56.868 --> 00:29:01.055 know. Right. And I was like, I look this good. He just laughs at me and I 00:29:01.088 --> 00:29:06.127 was like, he always was just like, I was like, you were pretty so. But 00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:12.065 yeah, uh there's a lot, I uh or a lot. It was a big thing, that statement 00:29:12.098 --> 00:29:16.766 , but that's sweet and thought that, you know, the relationship you and 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:21.956 your husband have is very sweet. And I think that when you talk about his 00:29:21.989 --> 00:29:27.097 look, relationships are challenging, you know, I've not talked to one 00:29:27.130 --> 00:29:32.065 woman who does not have things to talk about in terms of the challenges of 00:29:32.098 --> 00:29:39.016 marriage or relationship, you know. Yeah, it does. And um 00:29:39.049 --> 00:29:41.847 you know, I thank him though for putting up with me like it's been a lot 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:48.795 like I've had my issues. The depression was a big thing for me. Um 00:29:48.828 --> 00:29:52.416 Al Sal Harm was a big thing for me as far. Like, I never did drugs. I mean 00:29:52.449 --> 00:29:58.516 , you know, pothead, whatever, you know, I, as far as doing, oh God, 00:29:58.549 --> 00:30:02.075 everything just scares me. And, like, you know, I see my sister right now 00:30:02.108 --> 00:30:06.946 my one, my aunt who I call sister, the one who I take care of, who's in a 00:30:06.979 --> 00:30:12.585 wheelchair, you know, her addiction is pills. And I'm so glad I never got 00:30:12.618 --> 00:30:19.065 into that because I, now, I mean, II, I have a key to a lock box that 00:30:19.098 --> 00:30:23.246 keeps all her pills in it and I cannot let her have access and I have her 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.706 medical power of attorney. I had to get warnings out to where nobody else 00:30:27.739 --> 00:30:33.506 could pick up medication for her because she, uh, I thank God. But, you 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:37.045 know, self harm was a big thing for me that I used to cope with. I didn't 00:30:37.078 --> 00:30:42.496 use like drugs or anything, you know, alcohol. Yeah. But cutting was 00:30:42.529 --> 00:30:50.529 probably a bigger thing. So, yeah, I mean, I totally get that damn. 00:30:53.250 --> 00:30:59.097 Hm. You know, people have to find ways of coping. Yeah. It's been a 00:30:59.130 --> 00:31:03.026 struggle but, you know, it's, it's worth it. I mean, the kids are good. 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:05.585 They're actually really well behaved. They're very energetic, they're 00:31:05.618 --> 00:31:12.597 very happy kids. They're very outgoing and they're very smart and happy. 00:31:12.630 --> 00:31:19.897 So that a mom, I don't know. Nothing. It's all melted. Help me, I smoke it. 00:31:19.930 --> 00:31:27.930 What? I guess I eat it. You're so crazy. I think you drank it. 00:31:28.390 --> 00:31:33.486 Well, your kids are adorable and they're very energetic. I'm definitely 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.627 way more stricter with them. I definitely pay a lot of attention to them 00:31:37.660 --> 00:31:42.785 because that's, that's what I wanted. Yeah. And we're always trying to. 00:31:42.818 --> 00:31:45.637 Yeah, I never really. 00:31:45.670 --> 00:31:53.670 Yeah. Perfect timing. So, where was she going? 00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:59.848 So, I think we can stop there. Yeah, it's perfect.