I'm here with Dean Shrive. Today is November 14th 2019. We are in
Fairfield, California. This is Dana Lee Bell. This interview is a part of
the C two C Oral History project with Arizona State University.
This is being recorded. Do you give permission for this recording? I do.
Could you please spell your name? Uh Dean DEA N Shreve S Hr Eve. Thank
you. Um Could you tell me a little bit about your journey to becoming an
educator?
Huh? It was a long, long road. Um
Let's see,
I was born in Snow. Call me Washington. No. Um I, at one point in the
sixth grade decided I wanted to teach English because my English teacher
was terrible and I did a better job.
And so it was in the back of my mind. But then as I went into high school
that changed, I lost track and didn't have any plans. I didn't even think
college was possible.
Um, because my dad told me there was no money for college and I'd have to
pay for it by myself and I knew that wasn't possible because everybody
told me college is $30,000 a year.
Uh, so I lost focus and, um, made a lot of bad decisions. A lot of bad
friends and, um,
barely graduated
probably. I should actually, technically I shouldn't have graduated. Um,
but I got a diploma and so I went into construction and I moved up to
Washington, went into construction, sold cars, did a ton of different jobs.
Um,
and then when I was like, ok, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to college, I'm
gonna try to figure out a way to go to college. So I kept trying to get
jobs where I could go to college at the same time. And it just never
happened. I never had the money to do more than pay the rent and go
drinking. Um, so I, so, well, actually I was working, um, I had moved back
to California after I went to Alaska did the fishing boat thing because
you can make all kinds of money in Alaska and come back with a big wad of
cash. Uh, which is true. But then I came back and I blew the wad of cash.
And so I had no money and so I moved back down to California.
A friend of mine told me wait tables, go to college. You can do that. So I
got a job at the Red Lobster and I was waiting tables and I'm making a lot
of really good money. I just smooth old people and, um, make really good
tips. During lunch or, you know, in the evening and I went back to school
, um, and I started, I did really badly because I still didn't know how to
go to school, take classes or care
and then everything went bad, went south, um, restaurant, went out of
business and I, um, flopped around a couple more jobs until my truck broke
down in front of a recruiter's office.
I went in and signed up for the military and, uh, I signed up on Monday
and I shipped off on Wednesday.
Um, so I did four years of active duty. Um, and I went in the military and
I was really good at my job. I was really good. I went to infantry so it
was all about guns and blowing things up and I was really good at it, but
I was also really good at training soldiers
and whenever somebody would get a terrible soldier or some guy that
couldn't do anything right. Um, or had too much attitude or blah, blah,
blah, they'd always put him on my team
and I would train them and then I'd always get him, I'd get them trained
up and then they take him and put him on a different team and give me a
new bad guy. So, basically he had like, one terrible soldier. Um, but I
loved it. I loved it. Um,
and then, uh, I went to Kosovo and, um, there were some really bad
decisions made by another team later and my squad leader and platoon
sergeant. And I realized that as long as,
as long as somebody,
there's always gonna be somebody above me who makes bad decisions. And
because of those bad decisions, people especially Children are gonna die.
And so I decided I couldn't be a part of that because I can't just watch
it and not be able to do something.
So I got out, it was painful. I loved the military. Everybody, like,
everybody was insanely surprised when I decided to get out. Everybody
thought I was a, I was a lifer, what we call a lifer. But I got out, I
went back to junior college. I signed up for junior college majoring in
English.
And, um,
well, that was 2001, August 11th, 2001.
So I had 30 days where I was in the National Guard and I was going to
college and, you know, everything was good. And then, uh, September 11
happened and I got called active duty. So I went back on active duty. But
this time I was, uh, uh, military police.
Oh, and while I was going to college I actually signed up with the co,
with the Cocoa County Sheriff's Department. Um, and I was scheduled to go
to police academy because after infantry was like, oh, go be a cop. That
made sense.
And then, uh, I got called to active duty as military police and I went,
and I served on Fort Lewis as a cop drove around a squad car, pulled
people over gave him tickets, uh, you know, investigated crimes and stuff
and
I realized that one, I hate shift work. There is just no such good thing
as a good shift. The time sucks. And you cannot have a real life.
And, uh, I also realized that I was becoming very jaded. I couldn't look
around at me without seeing the crackheads and knowing that nothing good
comes from it, I would arrest people and then I'd get called to their same
house two weeks later and the same person is abusing the same child, you
know. And so I was like, OK, this, I don't, you know, then I went to Iraq
and stuff. I came home and uh I told the Sheriff's Department I was like,
I don't wanna, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm out. So I went back to school and I
focused fully on school. Um But I got married and uh
they got married and had kids and uh went to,
went into real estate. So I was doing junior college and real estate uh
apartment management. Um Finally, uh I finished, finished my undergraduate
and I went into teaching. So I went and taught overseas in Spain.
Uh over there, then I went to, and I went to university over there and I
got a master's. So I got my bachelor's in English criticism at UC Davis.
Went over to Spain taught English over there and then got a master's in
Eesl
and then I came uh came home from there. I would have stayed abroad. And
just that was actually kind of one of my dreams in life was to just teach
English abroad all over the place, going from country to country, you know
, basically staying in a country long enough to learn the language and
then move on my wife. However, was like, I'm, I wanna go back to Davis. So
we move back.
So we moved back to, so we moved back to Davis and uh and I got my
teaching credential and then I taught in Florin and Woodland, some regular
schools and then to um
and then here to Sam Mio.
So can you tell me a little bit about who inspired you to become an
educator?
Unfortunately, I would say there wasn't really an inspiration.
Um
So like there were like little parts and pieces. It was like, I actually
had a lot of good teachers, but I'd say, well, I had good teachers. I
never had teachers that were good enough or at least the system was never
good enough.
I always had problems in school. Like first grade, I failed the first
grade the first time because I was ditching class. Yeah, I would um I
would go to class and then at the first recess, I'd jump the fence, go in
the park and hide where I'd catch frogs. Turtles. Go fishing and take naps
and hang out until the end of the day at the last recess. And I would come
back over the vents and play tether ball and pretend like I had been there
all day. There were two first grade classrooms. Um, and each teacher
thought I was in the other one
and it worked great until the end of the year when the parent teacher
final conferences and I had, you know, failed both classes. You know, I
had other issues too. You know, I,
I climbed up on the roof during lunch when the principal teacher demanded
, I come down, I refused, the principal demanded they called the police
and the fire department and I ran around on the roof running away from
them. It was ridiculous.
So I was never a good student. I was never the right student. You know, I
um I had the abilities, my reading was good.
Uh, like I had said earlier, my, in the sixth grade and this teacher, she
was, I remember her as being pretty sweet, but I don't know, sitting in
that classroom was torture and I would just do anything I could to get out
of the classroom. I would cut my arms
so that I could ask to go to the office and get abandoned. I'd literally
cut myself open with things to get out of the classroom. Um or I would
just not come back from lunch. I would go hide I'd go walk down the street
to the pizza now is in Colorado and walking, that street was a 15 mile
walk with nothing in between. Like, it's just open country. Right.
So I'd do anything to get out of class and we were reading Julie of the
Wolves
and she was destroying it. She would ask us stupid questions that nobody
would wanna answer. There was no discussion
and she said, and I, I just kept interrupting as being a jerk. I was being
a terrible person. And uh she said, Dean, if you interrupt me one more
time, you're gonna teach a class tomorrow. And I said,
and she said one more word from you. And I said, how about two? Wait,
that's four.
And she was like, you're teaching tomorrow. And I said, thank God.
Uh So I spent the night preparing, I looked up all the discussion
questions and I rewrote my own and I, you know, I had been, I'd read the
book, I'd already read the book like two or three times and I went in the
next day and I just asked questions and then I followed those questions.
Those and, and we had this wonderful discussion about Julie of the Wolves
and we got to like her final like she had, you know, I had the, we had the
essay question. So I knew where to go.
And
now she had scheduled a parent teacher conference because of the
altercation. And you know. And so that day after I taught the class, my
parents came in and we had a conference and she told them dean should be a
teacher.
He led an excellent class. It was great.
I'm thinking about, I should just let him teach the rest of the book.
Um And I gave her a lot more respect after that, I left her alone. I still
hated being in there and I still played a lot of tricks to get out, but I
didn't mess with her anymore.
Do you, do you have a mentor teacher? Not really when I was at Flor and
there was a teacher, uh Mr Simmons Simon, he's uh Elk Grove like teacher
of the year 12 times. I mean, he was fantastic. He's amazing. Um
And I did my student internship under him and uh and another teacher
watching him was, was fantastic. The relationship that he had with kids
was amazing, you know, it was like, and he had that class that the
counselors always put the worst kids into. So like they were like this kid.
No, you know, we're gonna put kids in his class because this kid is gonna
ruin any other teacher. Uh But that was just student internship, you know
, and um
because of the way the program works, I wasn't the best intern,
didn't have my lesson plans laid out. Right. And well, like they should
have been, they don't match up like the university wants you to do one
thing, the school wants you to do another, the teacher is doing their
thing, you know, and I made mistakes. So
in the end, he actually didn't even really like me. I ruined it for him
and he said he would never do it again. It's kind of sad. I actually
really deeply respect him. So when I say like, if I mention a mentor
teacher, I mean him because ultimately I wanna be like him, you know what
I mean? But I didn't get a lot of really good training under him. I just
watched him. I saw the way he interacted and that was, that was about it.
So when you became a teacher, what was the process like,
I don't know what you mean exactly in what way. So as far as um did was
the process similar to what it is today? So you have your Oh Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same. Um Yeah, go through the university, get a
credential student teach, you know, um finish your masters your first year
of teaching and yeah, same, same process as it is today. Um So
um so how long have you been an educator now? Where was your first
assignment?
Um I
uh let's see, my, so like uh I count my, my time overseas because that's
when I really started learning teaching um and was responsible for my own
classes. Um So 2000, 2013
and then I came, uh from,
I came from there to
Davis and in the credential program is when I worked in Flor and, and
Woodland and then I came to Se yo. So what do you teach here at San Diego
? I teach, um, right now just Eld and English 12. Uh I have taught a bunch
of electives. I taught college career. That's my absolute favorite class
to teach. It's the best one. Um, no bias there.
It's the most applicable. But I digress um, journalism, mass media and uh
creative writing.
I think that's about it. I think that's what I've taught here. Uh Can you
talk a little bit about what uh continue edu, continuing education looks
like for you? Oh.
So, yeah, I, I mean, I went from,
I like Clayton Valley is at the regular high school and I was, I wasn't
attending class. I was literally just not going to school. Um, or if I did
go to school, it was really just to hang out with my friends and I might
make it into a class here or there. Um
uh
And so I was one of those, I had to go to the continuation school, earn
some credits there. I had to go to the adult school, earn some credits
there and all that. And then it was a little bit different because you
kind of had a dual enrollment thing. You were like still in the
comprehensive, but you were at the adult school or not at the, you were at
the continuation school too. So you kind of did half of 1.5 of the other.
So it's like you're still trying to earn your credits over there and you
had to do the continuation school, right? And you had to do adult school.
So I did all those. Uh, but at the end of the year I was still 20 credits
short.
Um, and the principal made a deal and waived those credits so that I could
leave.
So typically, what are the students you teach? Like,
oh, they're real,
you know, if there's like one word to describe them, it's real. They're,
they're not fake. They don't, they don't play a lot of games and stuff. Um
, but continuing education nowadays you've got the same traditional school
process that has existed for
a good 50 years. You know, I mean, I, I'd say it's, it's about 50 years
where it's really looked like it does today. Um,
um, maybe more but because of the legal requirements that build the system
to make it look like it does, I'd say about 50 years. Um, but they, they
go that setting doesn't work for them. You know, they typically have
severe obstacles in their way that are not addressed by the schools, um,
obstacles like their parents are getting divorced, uh, or which, which is
a s seriously traumatic event in a child's life. Like, you know, we go, oh
, it's normal. It's, it's not normal. Right. I, if you're talking,
statistically normal it's normal. Right. Statistically speaking, but it's
not normal on human relationship. Like that's not normal. You're not
supposed to have to endure that kind of a thing. It's traumatic. Um, those
are relationships that are supposed to be lifelong. You know, you're
supposed to watch your parents die. You're not supposed to watch your kids
die and you're not supposed to watch your parents leave.
Um, so they go through these big traumatic events in our school system is
completely incapable of dealing with them. We have no systems in place for
dealing with it. And so we watch them fail and a lot of times we blame
them for the failure. And once they hit a point where they cannot graduate
, finally, some flags go off in a counselor's office and they go, oh, this
kid can't. So we need an alternative and thus the continuation program has
developed.
So they send them over here and there's a fundamental idea that and it's
true, smaller class sizes will improve the student's performance and it's
absolutely true. It does. They go from 40 kids over there to 25 over here
on average. And that one difference alone gives the teacher more time to
interact with the student, get to know the student and help the actual
individual student. Whereas at the regular traditional schools, it's
really just a numbers game is your curriculum set up to address the needs
of the majority of students. And if not, oh, well, for the ones that it
doesn't help
and so they fail and they come here when they're here, they still have all
the same issues. They're lacking
most of the skills that they should have learned since the time that they
quit.
So I have, um, I've learned as I've, I do a lot of interviews and tracking
and research on the students and I found that it's come to the point where
when I get a new student and they come in and they typically, like, I,
like, I get those really bad ones. Right? Like the not bad, like bad
students but bad. They're in a bad situation. Right? Like, they're too far
to graduate and they're not earning credits now or something. I always, I
just sit down and I open their um, online portal. You know, the one we use
as a and I look at their transcripts and I just go back and I find the
bees and the CS, every student has B's and C's somewhere. They might not
have A's but they all have B's and C's somewhere. And then you, if you go
back and hopefully they were in your district long enough that you go back
and you find it and then you go forward until you see the Fs and then you
ask them what happened and there's always something, always something. My
dad died. My mom died, my brother died, my parents got divorced. We moved
, you know, I went from this school to that school. I got bullied, you
know, and it's sad because it's always the same answers. I mean, I could,
I could write now for you, write down a list of the 20 things that these
kids go through. They're all the same
and they end up here. And, um, because it's smaller classes and because
the teachers at continuation schools are usually drawn to continuation
schools,
you know, there's no benefit to working here. Like almost literally none,
maybe they're smaller class sizes, but it's filled with the 30 kids that
were the worst kids or the worst classroom management problem at the other
school. So there's no benefit to being here. You don't get paid more and
you don't, you know, it's far more emotional and then, you know, so
there's no benefit. So therefore the teachers that are here are the ones
that really wanna be that actually leads to my next question. So what, how
, how, why did you choose to work with? Title one kids? Credit recovery
kids. Why are you here? Um
Well, yeah, there's, there's, there's a several very clear reasons. One I
was and always have been and still am one of them.
I used to look at the clock and I would tell myself I can do five minutes
, right? Like I can endure five minutes. And so I would just stare at the
clock and wait for that five minutes. And then after the first five
minutes of class was over, I'd tell myself I can do five more. I li, I, it
was a painful experience for me to sit in that class. The topics were
interesting. I didn't have a problem with history. Right. And I didn't
have a problem with, uh, Shakespeare. I loved Shakespeare, you know? But
so it wasn't the curriculum. it was the format and it was only the format.
It wasn't even the teachers. I'd never had a personal problem with the
teachers. Like I said, most of my teachers were good. Right. They were
good caring individuals that were doing their best. Um Some, uh most of
them cared way more about me than I ever cared about them. Like I can only
name a few of them by name, you know, all of them can name me.
Um,
so that's one, I was one of them. Uh, two,
my time in the military watching the change from somebody who would come
into the military and be like, always on the verge of total failure, which
there was like a difference between life and death and not only for them
but for the people they work with. Right. I mean, I literally had a
soldier pull the pin from a grenade and then throw the pin. Yeah, and
dropped the grenade. So we're standing over a live grenade. Right. And I
have to like grab him and throw him before we both die. Um And everybody's
standing around, right? Like it's,
and I had to teach him this guy, oh my goodness. I had to teach him left
and right. He literally did not know his left from his right. We had to
start there. I had to go all the way back to. This is your left foot. This
is your right foot when I say left to move that foot, right. And we had to
get this basic and I had to get real creative like climbing rope. Uh And I
had to write on issues with chalk and, but we got it and we learned it and
later we, I mean, we got to the point where he could read a map and
navigate terrain by himself.
So there's my experience teaching difficult soldiers um
enduring the hardships that I've endured in my life. Unlike most of my
students were brought on all by myself. My parents were middle class broke
, right? Like we were fine, we were ok. Dad made good money, just not
enough for all of us in the way we spent it, I guess. I don't know, you
know, timing was different. Um
Finally when I was doing like my student teaching and I think this was the
final point where I was like, I'm going to continuation and nowhere else.
Uh I worked with Mr Simmons who always had the hard cases, the rough cases
and I, you know, so I took over and I totally failed them as a student
teacher. I did, you know, I made good connections and relationships with
them. Like there were a couple
uh that I, you know, convinced to do school even though they, you know,
just weren't doing it. Like I remember I had this kid Jose and he got
behind, you know, he, he got to the point where he couldn't graduate. And
so they marked him for going to the continuation school. And so he dropped
out, he quit coming to school
and I, I hunted him down and I found him and, you know, I talked to him
and, you know, like cell phone calls and, um, and we, you know, after the
conversations, I was like the, uh, you know, basically I convinced them,
like, look, you're going to the continuation school and that's all fine
and you'll earn your credits. But in the four months until you go there,
why not come to class here and learn how to do this? Like, it's not gonna
be like bad, it's not gonna ruin you. It's not gonna be some impossible
thing. And, uh, you know, I was like, in fact, we don't care if you pass
my class, right? I was like, so you don't have to pass, you can come to
school and you cannot care about doing the work. So why don't you just
come to school? Forget the work, forget passing the class and doing the
work, just come to school with the sole intention of learning. Right. Just
learn the thing that I'm teaching. Don't worry about passing the class and
all that. And so he did, he came back and he started just learning and
when I made the lesson engaging and fun or, you know, like, well, not fun.
I've never been one of those that made things fun. My class is never fun
but it's always, it's engaging. Um, anyway, I'd make it and he would start
working. He would do all kinds of crazy, hard work, you know, and then
he'd refuse to turn it in, you know, and I'd be like, why don't you turn
it in Jose? And he's like, well, I don't need the credits. Right. So my
turn and I'm like, for the feeling he's like, I got the feeling this was
great learning this, this was awesome. Anyway. So, uh, and the final
reason was that there are some kids many that it doesn't matter who's the
teacher. It really doesn't. You put almost anybody in front of the
classroom? I think that they're gonna get by some will even excel or
succeed. Like, it really just doesn't matter, um, parents, family or, you
know, like
they just really, you know, almost or, or a lot of people can do the job,
you know, I'm not saying the teachers don't matter, the teachers, you know
, matter, it matters who's, but there's a more options. A lot of people
can do this class. Right. Like, not a lot of teachers can really teach
advanced gifted kids. Well, gifted kids will push them and test them and
the teacher can't keep up and it turns into a kind of a nightmare
and we're the same way at the continuation schools. I honestly, I, there's
not a lot of teachers that can do it and the kids need the teachers that
can. So for me, that's why for those who don't know, could you briefly
explain what the credit recovery system is?
Um, I, it varies greatly, it varies immensely across the nation and
greatly in California, all schools are, there's a ton of different ways to
set it up, but essentially there, uh, they are uniformly smaller schools
with smaller classes that's a given. If you look at any single
continuation school in California, they are very small schools. Um,
and they have smaller classes
and the kids have an opportunity to earn more credits than they could at
the comprehensive or at the traditional schools. The way that they earn
more credits changes. It, it, it varies depending on the school. There's
typically only one credit recovery or continuation school in the district.
Um, a few have more than one, very, very few. Uh, they tend to have, um,
a continuation school and then an adult school and they tend to level them
like first go here, then they're, you know, if that doesn't work, a lot of
the schools you earn, you go into the continuation school and you earn
your regular credits and then they'll have like Friday school. So they go
to school Monday through Thursday and earn regular credits on those days
and then the kids on Friday earn extra credits. Right. They come in on
Friday and they earn credits above and beyond or, um, a lot of the schools
that, you know, you, you have more classes and, you know, they like, some
of the schools will do like you, oh, you have eight classes and so you
earn more because you have more classes. Some of them do less classes,
some of them double credit, some are on semesters, some on quarters, some
on trimester. Uh there's just so many different variations but when you
get down to the base core of it on a yearly,
on a, in a year, the student at a continuation school can earn, uh 25% to
100% more credits than they could at the traditional school in the same
amount of time. That's, that's essentially what it is is, it's just
providing them avenues for earning more credits at a faster pace. And it's
based on, according to the, the State department, it's based on the idea
that they have taken these classes and failed and you're kind of, you're
filling in the gaps, like that's kind of the ideas that you're filling in
the gaps, not that you're like doing it all over again, but it's supposed
to be helping fill in the, the problems, focus on those issues. The
scaffolding that the students need. Um, some schools focus on getting them
back into the traditionals. Ok? Bring them in, get them caught up to speed
and then send them back and some of them focus on, bring them over,
graduate, them, get them done and some focus on transitions. Ok? Bring
them in and then figure out where they wanna go. Can you talk a little bit
about the politics surrounding credit recovery?
Uh Let's see,
that's pretty sketchy. You go. Um, yeah, it has changed over the years. So
many different times, there's one universal
and that's that if you, if you look at um, the traditional schools, uh and
if you go around and survey,
the general conception out there from teachers at traditional schools is
that students come to the continuation schools and do lower level, less
rigorous work and earn credits for doing less. That's, that's a pretty
general if you go around and survey, that's, that's what you tend to find.
Um,
on the other hand, at the continuation schools, you can go around and talk
to teachers. It's like, well, we do a ton of scaffolding to get them up to
where they should be or is as close to where they should be as we can.
Uh, politics come into play on several levels. You've got the state, you
know, you got state level where they set mandates for like credit
requirements. California says 100 and 80 is our minimum and then the
district set their minimum, right? So like, uh our district says 230
credits to graduate high school, except they make the allowance that the
adult school can earn 100 and 80 get a high school diploma. Uh I know
other districts where the high school earns 200 credits and the
continuation school earns 180. Um There's several down in southern
California where everybody gets 180 continuation and the regular um
a few of them close to us do uh they do like 230 or you know, they're in
the two hundreds somewhere and then they'll do uh in two hundreds and then
the continuation school is 180 the adult school is 180 right? And the idea
is that once they're in the continuation school, are you worried about
checking the boxes? Like, does it matter whether the kid has 20 elective
credits or 30 elective credits? Like the question is why are they earning
elective credits? Right. For, for example, we have English 123 and four or
you can translate that English 9 1011 and 12. Well, common core state
standards, right? Which are the adopted standards, say that there are two
sets of standards for high school English, there's nine and 10 and there's
11 and 12 period. Right. So you teach the same, same skills to another
junior as you teach to a senior. The difference is that they're supposed
to take English. The thing that we've agreed to 100 years ago was that
high school kids should take English every year. Right. They should just
continue in English. This is a really important subject. And so they
should take English every year and then those became level 9, 1011, 12. Um
And then people started doing typical things like, oh, we teach, um we
teach Catcher in the Rye at this grade. We teach, you know, uh we teach
Romeo and Juliet in the ninth grade, right? Like California back in uh oh
, this is actually a good example. So like in Colorado, we learned Romeo
and Juliet, everybody does Romeo and Juliet in the sixth grade in
California. They do it in the ninth grade, right? So they see Romeo and
Juliet as ninth grade curriculum, right? So like when I moved from
Colorado to California, I got put into Romeo, I got put into an English
class. I just turned in my sixth grade essay, right? I just turned in all
my sixth grade work and I got credit. I'm past English nine because I just
did all turned in all my sixth grade work. So you get this like what is
grade level curriculum? You know, and, and you have different. Um
So you got the standards then you've got the curriculums that you adopt as
a district or what? And there's good reason for that. Right. Because some
teachers, you know, like, you need some uniformity, ok, these are the
skills that they're learning but that's the purpose for common core, um,
politics. And then you get down to, like, I mean, you get down to
classroom level politics. Right? Like this kid, that kid, I want this kid
in my classroom, I don't want this kid in my classroom. So I don't know
when you define politics, that's a pretty big wide broad category that it
is um from your perspective, what is the main goal of, of credit recovery
for you?
Um So I actually, I have a poster and I, I tell my kids all the time, my
resolution for them is that they become a well informed, responsible and
productive citizen who is able to read critically discuss intelligently
and write effectively
for me as an English educator. My goal is um at the end of my class, when
they read something, when they are presented with an argument, they can
tell the difference between the truth and the rhetoric
because that's what our kids need to be successful at. And I don't care if
it's an email, right? Or uh a dissertation, I don't care. Uh some, you
just have to be able to recognize rhetoric and truth and if you can do
those two things, right? And cite evidence and da da, da, you're gonna be
ok. So, my ultimate goal is to fill the potholes, right? Like, I, I view
their education as like a road, right? Uh, uh, a highway and, you know,
some kids man sail down the highway, right. Other kids, trauma has put
huge potholes
and sometimes you gotta fill the pothole. Sometimes it's small and you
don't worry about it. Yeah. Ok. The road's gonna be bumpy, it's fine.
We'll deal with a bumpy road. Some, you gotta fill the pot pothole, some,
you gotta just build a whole bridge. So, you know, it's like, man, you
gotta get and so ultimately, it goes like it's all about,
it's all about filling the potholes but moving and progressing forward and
you always have to make the decision. Is this a pothole I gotta fill or
like, do we have to stop the car fill this pothole or can we just drive on
the bumpy road and it's always making those decisions? Do you, do you
think that credit recovery schools are necessary?
I think that credit recovery schools are essential,
vastly underrated and absolutely ineffectively used
the common ideal out there or misunderstanding out there is that the
credit recovery schools should look at the traditional schools and try to
mimic them and do what they do. And that's totally bogus. The traditional
schools are built on a mathematical formula to do the best they can for
the majority of students. And o well to the others, the credit recovery
schools, continuation schools,
I haven't found one ever that doesn't focus on every kid. And I think that
if you started looking at continuation schools as the model and said, how
do these schools get that kid engaged
and productive? And then you took those things that we do back over to the
traditionals and started implementing them, we could eventually run
ourselves out of a job.
I, I really do believe that. And I think, I think if you started modeling
the traditional schools after the comprehensives, you would have a, a huge
, huge difference. How do you think credit recovery affects our community
?
Oh, it has a massive impact on our community. I mean, my goodness, I go
out to eat and stop for coffee and, you know, go to the mechanic shop and
I'm, I run into our old students all the time, like constantly. Uh I run
in it, you know, like I'll wear my se yo shirt and like, uh I'll just have
people. I, I never taught, you know. Um So we opened up a huge door of
opportunity. Number one, number two, we don't accept the idea that some
people are unworthy or some students can't do this. Like, that's not right.
Like, so I think we really put out into the community
uh belief in maybe that system wasn't for you, but you can do this and I
think that you have to keep that. I don't think that we can shrug our
soldiers, you know, shoulders on people that,
you know, usually suffering from immense traumatic events can't get
through ninth through 12th grade. And unfortunately, if you don't get a
diploma, nothing else counts like nobody gets credit for. Oh, did you
finish sixth grade? 7th, 8th, 9th? You know, if you make it to the third
quarter of your senior year and you don't ever finish and get a diploma,
then you, nobody gives you credit for any of it. You know, it's not like,
how far did you make it? It's, did you finish? So, I think in that aspect
alone it, it just makes a huge difference. I think on the community, I
know that I probably get more emails and phone calls from the kids that
didn't make it than from the ones that did. You know, I get one or two
emails from kids who finish college. Right. We got a couple finishing
college and I'm like, one or two from those, but like the ones who never
finished and nothing, those are the ones I, you know, I, I get a ton of
emails or phone calls from them and they're like, are you sure you just
wanted to let you know, you know, you always believed in me and I'm ok.
You know, and so that tells me that even if they don't graduate, we're
doing something important.
Could you explain for people who don't know what ppis is.
So, uh PB is positive behavior, intervention and support. So, uh it's the
, a lot of research come out of the universities. Basically, the idea is
you have to work, um, you have to do things to, you have to come up with
systems in place to provoke positive behavior from students. Right? And
that's where you should focus. Don't worry about, uh, well, it's not,
don't worry about the bad behavior but focus on building the positive
behavior. You know, you, you can think of it like parents, right. Parents
are constantly teaching Children how to do things. Right.
Right. And every once in a while you have to discipline a child for doing
the wrong thing after you've taught them how to do the right thing. Like
very few parents out there will punish a child for something. They've
never taught them how to do. Right. Yeah. You didn't wash the dishes. I'm
gonna spank you. But I've never taught you how to wash the dishes. No one
, no one does that. So it's taking that idea into schools. And, um, you
know, research shows that when you focus on the positive behavior and
interventions and you really teach students who, you know, aren't doing,
um, school, well, aren't being successful in school and you focus on how
to be successful in school. So you focus on how to be successful in school
that they, they, they learn because deep down every kid wants to be
successful in school, they do, they want to be able to do it. Now some
will put up a game and a front and pretend like they don't care, but deep
down they all care. And if you train them and teach them how to be
successful here, they'll do it. So PB is, is a, it's a tiered system. You
know, you start out with just positive uh setting a culture, right? You
build a culture and a climate, 80% of the kids are gonna respond to that.
If you just build the culture, like when, when I was in the military, the
idea that somebody would steal was like impossible, right? If a guy stole
, everybody would be like, no, that goes back, right? Like the the culture
was like, no, if, if somebody said, hey guys, this moving this pile of
rocks is ridiculous and stupid. Let's work slowly. So we get it. No, no,
no, no, we're all gonna work really hard and we're gonna get this done
together and we're gonna, so you build a culture, 80% of the kids will
respond to that. But then there's a tier system like so tier 1 80% of the
kids, they're gonna respond to that. Tier two kids are gonna need more
help, more intervention, more support and so you do more um uh what's the
word, more,
more personal, more interactive uh things, right? So like right now we're
really building on the tier two system check and connect. Um, we're adding
in check in check out. Right. I got a student who didn't show up for two
weeks of school. And so we put her on check in, check out. She has to
check in with me every morning and she has to check out with me every
night. Right. We haven't gotten to the checkout yet. Ok. She hasn't been
able to do that but she went from not attending to making it at 10 o'clock
to, to, to nine o'clock to 930. Right. And today she showed up at 830. So
we've got this, like, huge improvement in showing up. Right. But it, and
it's just this check in with me every morning, check in with me. Well,
that's what the student needs. Right. She doesn't have, um, uh, she's
never been trained. And how do you go to school? How do you do this
successfully?
You know? And, and I had the same thing I wasn't trained. Here's how you
do school. Like, if somebody had actually taken time and said, look, Dean
, let's, um, let's do something different with you. Right. Why don't you
read this book and then come and talk to me about it and when you're done
after we talk about it, you can go write an essay and I'll just grade, I
would have done it. I would have been all about it. I love writing essays
. I write, you know, I, I've been, I used to journal and write essays like
crazy on my own because I wanted to argue with somebody, you know, and I
would have done it, but there was no system for that. It was do this
worksheet answer this discussion question. Nothing else was allowed.
Anything doing anything else is a rebellion, you know, so there was no
alternative. Um So PB is, is kind of taking a deep look into your culture
in general, starting to build expectations and train them in how to be
productive uh intelligent, creative citizens. And then, and then it moves
into the upper tier students and it starts to work on individual supports
and, you know, it really focuses on engaging individual students and
training them. Can you explain a little bit about check and connect? Um So
check and connect is a um system, the students you identi, we, we've
identified the students who are like uh a high needs, right? So they're
tier two uh or tier three and we identify them, we pull them in and we um
talk to them, we tell them that we're gonna, you know, mentor them and uh
basically, we're gonna, we're gonna help them problem solve and, and get
their stuff together.
Does uh does PB A S check and connect check in, check out, does that all
complement like restorative justice or could you explain restorative
justice? I think, I think so. You know, because the, as I understand it
the fundamental idea of restorative justice is that um we need to be fair
and open minded uh about where we have Erred and where we have uh where
others have Erred. So you, you kind of have to look at both sides, right?
It's the uh it's the thief saying I stole and the cops saying I was a
little hard on you, you know, so, and it, and it kind of builds like, you
know, there's justice, there still needs to be discipline and consequences
for your actions, but they need to be equivalent and fair and, but it's a
re-establish of, you know, respect for one another. And I think check and
connect does a fantastic job of this because, you know, the students come
in and ultimately, they know why they're there because they're not earning
credits and they're not doing it and they have this huge sense of failure
and you have to acknowledge that failure because you have to be like, you
know, you, you're failing. Like if you keep doing this, it's not gonna go
well.
So you acknowledge the failure but you don't say you're failing because
you're a failure because you can't do this. It's quite the opposite. It's
like you're not being successful because we haven't really trained you how
to be successful. So I'm gonna help you and I'm gonna teach you the system
and here's how you work the system. Here's how, how you do school and you
know, like, I've got some, I'm like, teaching them how to wake up on time
, how to set an alarm clock, how to not blow up on a teacher, like, how to
go to the bathroom at the right time and not the wrong time, right. Uh,
when to make that choice. And so they, um,
I, I think there's a very, a, very good and it's, it's a very personal
thing. You know, it's, it's one on one, it's teacher and student and it's
a mentorship. So they, they get to see, we ask them a lot about what are
you dealing with what's going on? Right. And every time they make
decisions, I'm always asking them, why did you make that decision? What
was it? Right. Was that an emotional or a logical decision? Which, which
drove that
and man, they, they see themselves differently. It's amazing like you, as
you go through the process, seeing them change how they see themselves.
You know, I got students now that I'm like, I would totally kick them off
check and connect and they're good to and they're good to go. But
I can't because the truth is their lives are not easy. And if they hit the
wrong road, the wrong bump in the road, the entire train could be derailed.
And so with check and connect, we do put them on a one year, it's the
whole year, no matter what, if you do great, good. It's just more
cheerleading. Right. It's more celebration. Uh, but then if the bumps come
, you've still got the relationship and you can, uh, address those needs
as they come up much faster and better and hopefully the kids come to you
with the problem like that started to happen. Um, you know, kids are, like
, coming in before. Right. You know, I had a student who's pretty
notorious on campus, um, not enrolled in any of my classes and actually
not even check and connect right now. Uh, but she came into my classroom,
sat down and decided to do her work in Miss Wallace's class in my
classroom. You know, I was like, you're not gonna cheat. Right. No, she,
but she did, she actually sat and did the work. But what she was doing was
she was avoiding another teacher. Right. Uh, so it wasn't even Miss
Wallace, but she was avoiding another class where she felt like she was
going to lose control. And so she came into my class to
maintain that self control. Right. And, and it's all just because I've had
the opportunity,
it's kind of like an informal check and connect, uh, so far, but I've been
checking in with her on a daily basis and starting to build that
relationship, you know, where eventually I hope to make it a formal
mentorship where she's like, actually has to. But until then we're not
ready for that, you know, we'll take what we can get, but hey, not blowing
up on the teacher was actually a big step and then she did work
voluntarily. So, do you think that this credit recovery system is in
danger?
I do, I do, I actually think that, um,
I think that it's in a great danger
because of stereotypes
because of misconceptions
and because of funding, it costs more to have smaller schools and smaller
classes, it just costs more. And so when you're looking to cut funding,
you tend to make classes bigger and schools bigger. But the problem is is
that when you make schools bigger, you lose relationship, a school with
2500 kids and one principal cannot have the relationship that is necessary
to run a good school. It just, you can't, you could put the most amazing
principal on the planet in that school and it's just not gonna, it's not,
it, it's not gonna do justice for those students. I don't think, I mean,
you might get the majority of them to graduate and pass, but I think
you're shrugging your shoulders on the kids who don't and especially on
the kids that aren't doing well in the system. If you're gonna do that,
you need to flag kids faster and get them out of there sooner. If it any
kid, it works for great. Keep them in there and make that school big kids
that kids that do well in a big school, fine. Do it right. But kids who
don't get them out fast before we build on the trauma before we grow in
the trauma. But credit recovery is in danger. For another reason that a
lot of people look at it, not being here, not teaching here, not
understanding it and think that it's not doing justice, right? Like their
view is that their kids should pass their class
and be able to pass their class and you know, should master this test. But
if you stop and you really think about that and you're like, yeah, that
would be great. That would be wonderful. If every kid could pass your test
at the end of the year. That would be wonderful. Like the California exit
exam. Right. That's ideal. And, and I actually believe in that program, we
, I think the exit exam was a great idea if you prepared the students for
it, but it's not right or fair or just to give students a test that you
haven't prepared them for. That's wrong. So, uh, we're in danger for that
reason. They think that, oh, they come over here and they get free credits
and that's not right. We're also in danger because, um, we shoot ourselves
in the foot continuation schools far too often complain about how hard
their job is.
I think we need to stop complaining and I think we need to start doing it
right. And, well, I think we do a lot of things wrong. I think that any
time that your system is built on the model that failed the kid in the
first place,
you're doing it wrong. Um It's like committing suicide with two bullets.
It doesn't work. It's not suicide. That's homicide. Right. So, um,
if they failed at the traditional school,
the continuation school should not be expected to do anything in the same
way as the traditional.
That's not to say that we don't hold high and rigorous standards.
We have to hold high and rigorous standards. You have to set the bar high
and maintain standards.
The biggest reason that the students here respect me is because I actually
believe in them enough to hold them to the high standard. When teachers
don't hold them to a high standard, they know that and they see that and
they feel disrespected by it. So when you drop the standards and that, but
they will let you, they'll let you drop the standard. In fact,
historically, what they do is they don't work and the teacher begs and
pleads and tries and they don't work and then they wait just long enough
and the teacher lowers their standard and the teacher says, ok, I've
lowered the standard now, do the work and the kid thinks, well, not doing
the work, made this teacher lower the standard. So I could do this work or
I could wait and see if the standard drops a little more. And the teacher
in absolute frustration lowers the standard again. And eventually they get
to the point where they're asking them to do almost nothing and then the
kid just does, it turns it in and demands credit.
So I say this because this is the other part where we're, we're shooting
ourselves in the foot. You know, sometimes we do drop the standard. I mean
, as a school in general or we don't enforce standards. And
ultimately, that's verifiable. You can go and look at student work and,
you know, if they're not being educated, the system is gonna get shut down.
So sometimes we lower the standard. Uh We get a lot of pressure from the
outside saying we're not really doing anything or those students don't
deserve, you know, which is a ridiculous thing because, you know, I like
the amount of students, I've never had a class that didn't have a girl
that, you know, like every class I've ever had, I've had a girl that's
been raped.
It's a ridiculous idea to think that these Children can go through that
and do school, especially when so many teachers are demanding worksheets
that don't teach. A lot of times we've replaced teaching with worksheets
in my own practice. I uh went through a real severe growth spurt. Uh
couple of years ago where I started really, I, I read a book called
Assessments Matter. Um and I started to go is the thing that I'm asking
them to do, teaching them the standard. I want them to learn or is it just
proof for me to put in the grade book?
And what I found was that most of what I was asking them to do was just
proof that I could grade and put in the grade book. And at the same time
I'm burnt out. There is no time in school for me to grade. Literally, I
don't get paid for grading. There's no time like there's, there's time for
me to set up my classroom. That's it. That's all the time. I have to
design curriculum to, to develop it, to fit these students or any student.
The schools don't pay you enough or give you a time to develop students
even when you're teaching through from the book. Right. I have uh one
class I teach in the ELD class and it's a scripted, it's right. Straight
from, I can teach it straight from the book. Right? And even that program
, the designers and the writers, the authors of that curriculum say that
it should take me about 15 to 20 minutes to prep for class every day.
Well, I have 15 minutes and I have five classes. So I have not enough time
to prep for the classes that I teach. There's no time for grading. So I
had to go through and I had to be like, why am I giving this worksheet?
What's the purpose of the worksheet? And I just scrapped any worksheet
that had, whose purpose was grading. If the purpose of this was to get it
in the grade book, then get rid of it. I don't need it that can be done
through practice. I only kept assignments that taught the kids the
material. And then I started going through, does this assignment? Does
this work? This product teach what I want them to teach. Well, that's easy
to find out. Just ask them right. Like give them, give them the work, have
them do the work and then when they're done, ask them, ask them the
questions. Do you understand the, what, what do you think were the three
main causes of World War one? If they can't answer that, then what you
asked them to do didn't teach them. It didn't help them. So I get rid of
it. Right. It, it was kind of like Hume's razor, right. I just took Hume's
razor to everything I do and anything that doesn't actually teach, not
intend to teach the intention doesn't matter, actions matter. Right. I
don't care what your intentions were. Were you, were you kind or were you
a jerk? I don't care what you intended to be and I just, I took the razor.
What is the purpose of this? Is it so that I can put it in the grade book
or so that they can learn from it? Ok? If it's to learn from it, does it
actually teach the students what I want them to learn and I started going
through and it turns out, yeah, I only need like one assignment every four
days or, you know, we can do and that's when they really learn and they
really start to grab and, and so now I, now I grade about half an hour a
week. Right. And I can do that mostly during my prep. Sometimes I take
five or 10 minutes home. So we, we kill ourselves through bad processes,
you know. Um
and we're so there's miscommunication, there's what people think we do
that, you know, we don't do and then there's, we're killing ourselves. We
, we give ourselves a task and, and we, you know, we'll, we'll teach
school, we'll do school the way that they've always done school
traditional. Why, you know, I, I had a, I had a conversation like this
today and I, you know, why do we do it like this? Because this is the way
we do it. I'm like, well, it's never worked like I can, I, we can look at
the evidence, we can look at the numbers. It has never worked.
Let's do something different, right? And I think that for continuation
schools to thrive because the money is gonna get us ultimately. What's
gonna happen is the online programs are gonna overcome, they're gonna move
all, they're gonna move all continuation or credit recovery uh into online
programs. They're gonna say, all right, Mr Shrieve, all your kids are now
enrolled in this online English program, you sit here and help them if
they need help. And that's what it'll be continuation will just be credit
recovery will be online enrollment. And when kids don't pass, they'll just
shrug their shoulders because it'll be a different school and it won't be
an actual school. And then there's nothing for the state to take over.
It's just a, a program in the, you know, and we ultimately, when it comes
down to numbers and budgets and money, like, if you look at the world, uh
you know, with any kind of a historical perspective, you'll see that money
m money matters, right? Like invest in lives or money, money wins. Can you
talk a little bit? So we've only got a couple more questions. Can you talk
a little bit about teacher reten retention,
not specifically for credit recovery. But if you want to talk about credit
, how credit recovery plays a part in teacher retention.
Um
We in continuation schools, we have a really high turnover rate
and I actually think it's a good thing in a way if used properly. I read a
book called Schools That Succeed by Karen Chen Wor.
And um she goes through, she's a journalist and she goes through and
starts looking at all these schools that were terrible that got overtaken
or you know what and turned around and became some of the best schools in
the country. I read this one. I, I don't remember the principal or the
school, but he has a philosophy when a new teacher comes in, he always
keeps them in the first year almost no matter what. As long as they don't
break the law, you know, and do something like, you know, legally
untenable,
he keeps them. But the second year, if they're not great, he gets rid of
them. It requires greatness and you stay. And personally, if I was in
charge, that's what I would do. I'd be like your first year, you're almost
guaranteed to stay. Just don't break the law, don't your second year? You
better be awesome. Awesome. Right? Like mediocre is not good enough, right
? There's a quote that says a and I don't forget who it might be anonymous
but says greatness will always be violently opposed by mediocrity.
And it's true because if people can get by doing less, they will. It's
human nature, right? Human nature is not good. Human nature is like the
path of least resistance. We're gonna do less, right? It takes you have to
overcome something in you to do more, right? So, uh, teacher retention is
all about the teachers finding the right place. I don't think it's really
a problem of teacher retention. It's a problem of teacher placement when
you teach a teacher that should be teaching A P honors IB and you put them
in a continuation school, they become angry, frustrated and jaded, right?
They, they can't handle it. And when you put a continuation teacher in a p
, if they're not somebody that could do that, right, then they become
angry, frustrated. These kids, ah, these kids are entitled and, you know,
God, they think they're so smart and da, da, da. You know,
because, you know, when you're dealing with, like, when you're tea, when
you're teaching gifted kids and they're challenging, you, you step on the
gas
and you go faster and harder, right? And then they get blown to the, you
know, their heads push into the headrest and they, they grab on and then
they start complying and they start learning and then they get over trying
to drive the car themselves, they want to drive the car themselves.
Continuation kids are more like matchbox cars, they don't want to drive,
they don't want to go anywhere and you have to push them and the second
that you stop pushing, they stop, you know, they're not, they don't have
the gas to, to push themselves. And so you have to teach them that, you
know. So I think it's a placement issue and I think that if teachers felt
more comfortable and principals felt more comfortable with teachers moving
around at the beginning and being like, hey, it's not an indicator that
you're a bad teacher. It's just an indication that that wasn't your school.
I think we would actually do way, way, way better because when you look
at teachers who get into a school that love the school. It takes some
pretty serious things to get them to leave
when a teacher finds the right school they don't leave. And the teacher
retention numbers are pretty extreme. It's always like the 1st 3 to 5
years or like, they're dying in the classroom. Like there, there's not a
lot in the middle. Well, that helps you. It's, you know, and I, I, like,
I've seen, I, we had a teacher I worked with here, came through as an
English teacher and she's phenomenal. She was phenomenal teacher, you know
, and she went here and then she went over to another school and then she
left teaching and I think it's a shame because she was a phenomenal
teacher. It was just a placement issue. This wasn't the right school for
her. Right. But there, there are other schools for her. Unfortunately,
there's not, we don't have a lot of good mechanisms for coaching teachers
in that. We have a whole lot of like union and district policies and
standards and they're really set up as like antagonistic,
like, for example, um, in California we have the bits of program or in our
district now it's called Induction. Um, and somebody comes and coaches new
teachers. And what? Right. Well, like, those should be the same people
doing the evaluations. I don't think a principal with a math degree has
any business doing an evaluation on an English teacher. They come in and
they don't have a clue what I'm teaching, why or why I'm teaching it. They
don't understand the standards. Right, and vice versa. You know, a teacher
with an English degree going in and evaluating a math teacher. I, I don't
think that's fair. I think that somebody who has a greater experience in
that field in, in that, at that level should be the one doing the
evaluation and the coaching. I think that if we looked at principal, not
as mentors, but as in coworkers who are focused on the paperwork side, I
think we do way better. If t you know, for example, department chairs,
their focus should be curriculum. They are professionals, they are trained
and they are competent in designing and uh changing adapting curriculum.
That should be, that's their job and what they should do and they should
mentor and coach their, their people. But because they're mentoring and
coaching their team, they shouldn't be evaluating them. The evaluation
needs to come from an outside source.
The principles are all about budgets and numbers and spreadsheets and data
and that's who needs to be principals, right? And then there's a
discipline aspect, but honestly, I think that should be thrown out the
door. I think students should be in charge of discipline, right? They
should be judged by their peers. I think every school should have a court
system with the students running it, you know, and there should just be a
rubber stamp at the end because if you train them well, they can do it. I
, we always talk about like we won't put a kid in the cafeteria for
liability issues, but then we leave here because the food is terrible and
we go to the fast food restaurant where they cook the burger for us. The
idea that they're incompetent is, I think a terrible presumption, assume
that your kids can do anything and then teach them how
so as an educator, from your perspective, I think I really got off track
on that one, but I'm not sure
what, what's the legacy that you want to leave behind as an educator?
What's your legacy gonna be?
My dream?
My dream in life is that somebody would say, hey, Shriek,
I've got this 300 acres.
I want you to build a continuation school for middle school kids.
I was teaching sixth grade English eighth grade history. And I had this
kid
Joe
and Joe was a real problem
child. I mean, my goodness, all the teachers dreaded him and he um he was
rough. I liked him. We got along but it was a challenge
and Joe um
you know, he was friendly, he was talkative, he was always disruptive.
Um I didn't know any of his background. I didn't have any time uh to get
to know Joe other than as a student in my class. And from that perspective
, right? Um He was a very unsuccessful student to say the weakest. But we
were getting somewhere and, uh, one day Joe came in and he just put his
head down
with his, uh, hood over his head and, you know, he's like tapping his foot
like fast and incessantly.
And I go over and, you know, I'm, I'd passed out the worksheets, which
nowadays I wouldn't even pass out because that was a terrible worksheet.
Um, you know, and, and now when he didn't even acknowledge me or do
anything, I, I stopped by the next time I tapped on this table and I said
, hey, Joe, why don't you, why don't you try? You know, and he swore at me
cussed at me, cussed me out. Couple expletives.
It's like, oh, ok, a little harsh on the response there, buddy. But, ok,
um, I sat down next to him and I tried, I was like, is this, uh, what's
going on?
You know, he just shakes his head and grunts. Ok. Like, can we talk about
it? No, you know, f off and cusses at me a little more. All right. So I
let him sit, well, he's in my English class then my, uh history class. He
doesn't go outside during the break and hang out or talk to anybody. He
just stays right there. Third period, same thing, the next period. Uh, he
has to go to his next class and he goes, and it's not 20 minutes later,
police are walking past my window
10 minutes after that they're walking by with Joe and handcuffs. Now, this
is 1/6 grader. Right? Like, what can 1/6 grader do in a classroom that
requires cops and handcuffs? I should know because it happened to me,
but it turns out that he went to the next class, the teacher gave him a
worksheet demanded. He do it, told him he's going to the principal if he
doesn't do it, he swore and cussed at the teacher. The teacher told him
off. They threatened each other, you know, unfortunately, Joe threatened
physical violence instead of an f or bad stuff on his way out the
classroom. The teacher noticed the pocket knife in his pocket, you know,
and, well, we have rules about kids with weapons on campus, you know? And
so the cops were called,
well, then
I was talking to, I don't know the principal or, I don't know, after
school I was worried about him. So I dug in. So the thing is, is that
Joe's parents were addicted to meth and they were in and out of prison
many times over, but they had recently gotten out and were supposedly
clean. And so they got custody of him back from his grandma and he's with
them and then he, um,
the cops raided the house and they weren't clean and they had drugs and
guns and stuff.
And so they were taken into prison
and, you know, when you live in that life. When those are your parents,
you know, the system and you know what being arrested this time means and
he was sent back to grandma's house and grandma has to go to work and
grandma needs him to go to school. You know,
the last place that he had business being was in school. Like that's the
last place Joe should have been or
if school was his safe place, like if, if, when the cops raided
Joe was like, I wish I was at school
then that would be something.
There are thousands of Joes out there and Lucy and Jasmines and Jackie,
we see them every day. We have hundreds of them and they go through our
traditional school system and we have never built any kind of a program
that says these students will come through our school and when they do
this system that we have put in place will identify them
and help them.
If we had, if I had 300 acres and $2 million
I would hire a bunch of awesome continuation teachers who I already know
we would move them into barracks on the property and we would give them
jobs.
Some of them would fix the tractors, some of them would plant the crops,
some of them would paint the buildings, some of them would draw art,
everybody would have a job
and when they learn how to do that job to my satisfaction, then I would
allow them to take the classes.
The classes
would first be
mechanics, welding, sewing, cooking the life skills.
Then once they graduated that class, they would have their jobs to do in
the afternoon and they would take highly demanding, insanely rigorous core
classes in the mornings. It'd be very simple and straightforward.
They would take a math class first.
Then they would take an English class
and then they would take a history class.
That's it.
That's all they would do. There would be no homework except for reading
and math because you have to practice math. You cannot do math well,
without practice. Right.
That's what they would do. They would work hard and then they would want
to go to these classes and they would be really hard, really thoughtful
and I mean, rigorous, like hard, like deep thinking, not like a lot of
worksheets, just hard thinking and they'd be rewarded for that. You think
hard, you get to eat from this dinner menu which you guys cooked and
prepared, right? You made the food and I would do that and I'd reen engage
them and I'd give them an academic plan and a goal for their life because
ultimately, what Joe really needed was an adult in his life that said,
what do you want to do
and let me help you, right. If somebody said, and, and if Joe said, I
wanna be a lawyer and I wanna be a public attorney because those guys are
terrible, right? Like, and he knew that, I mean, he had actually said that
to me before, you know, like those public defenders are terrible. He has
the faculty,
we need to catch him early. Uh So my legacy as a teacher uh will be, I
will design a system and I will get it in place in as many places as
possible where,
well, let me take a step back. You can have a fantastic, awesome teacher
who changes the lives of every single student that comes to their room.
But if that teacher dies and a really terrible lethargic teacher, you know
, somebody who's just there for a paycheck and unfortunately they exist,
comes in and sits down in that desk, the rest of the students will suffer
until that teacher leaves. That's unacceptable. We need systems that help
every teacher perform to their max and we need systems where a teacher
comes in and goes, how do we do it? And you can say we do this for our
students because it works.
We should never do anything because that's how we do it. We should do
everything because it works. And if it doesn't work, then be ready to
throw it out. If it doesn't work, get rid of it. There's, that's a
ridiculous idea that you would destroy Children because this is how we do
it. It's an unacceptable answer to anything. If you can't show me the
reason that we do it then be prepared to throw it out. And, and I, and I,
I can't, so, my legacy is to build systems that work for these kids to
give these kids a shot at an opportunity and an education that they
haven't yet been offered because they have
trauma,
you know, and I get, look,
the trauma is not their fault, it's not their fault that their parents got
divorced, it's not their fault that they got cancer. I mean, I've, I had a
student who had half her brain removed. How do you go to high school with
that? Right? Like you can't do that. So we need a system that says, hey,
when you notice or when you find out that a child's parents are going
through a divorce, we automatically put them into this program and here's
how we support them because this works.
That's not unreasonable. It's actually not even that difficult. We just
have never really had people look at the systems and say, let's do this
like that, that just hasn't happened in education yet. And to me that's
insane that that hasn't happened yet.
We just need to make that happen. I, I know that's oversimplifying it but
it really is that simple. You know, Kennedy said we're going to the moon.
It's that simple. It's for NASA to figure out how, but we need leaders
that say we are going to do this. Here's the problem. Kids, parents die.
Let's deal with that. You find out a kid, do you find out that their
parents died or you find out that their parents went to jail were
incarcerated? They automatically get flagged and they automatically go
into a program that provides the support that they need. That needs to be
my legacy. Whether it's, I can do it from the classroom. I'd love to.
There's nothing I enjoy more than the classroom. I feel like I make the
biggest impact.
But at the same time, I have to be willing to accept that. I'm not alone.
There are many other teachers who make very wonderful impacts on these
students lives. I'm not the only one.
So I, I, I'm not entirely sure, but I, I know that my goal is to build
that system and hey, maybe that school someday.
Well, thank you so much for um your perspective and everything, you know,
um sharing with us. So I appreciate you and I am going to click to stop
the recording.