WEBVTT 00:00:01.038 --> 00:00:05.247 Instead of like the grocery store, right? You know, the uh now you put 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:09.267 things in the refrigerator, you know, and you know, all of that stuff. Are 00:00:09.300 --> 00:00:15.357 we ready? Yeah, so you know, much kind of much easier. Ok, so now we're 00:00:15.390 --> 00:00:20.826 gonna be talking about um the refugee camps if you can tell me about, you 00:00:20.859 --> 00:00:24.806 know, when you got there, the first one you got to and then the next one, 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:29.997 how many different refugee camps did you go to? 00:00:30.030 --> 00:00:35.967 One or two? The first we, when we crossed the border into Kenya, the 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.695 assembly area with the looking that with the Watertown and then once they 00:00:40.728 --> 00:00:47.746 got enough folks there, we got trans transported to Cancun. So we came to 00:00:47.779 --> 00:00:52.506 Kakuma. I don't remember that the Zac month but it was maybe, maybe June 00:00:52.539 --> 00:00:55.616 or July of 1992. 00:00:55.649 --> 00:01:00.726 Um So I think it took them three months to move looking to uh I think the 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:08.759 last bag came there around September 1992. So in Kakuma it was a lot of 00:01:08.838 --> 00:01:13.926 people, I've never seen that many people concentrated in one place 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:20.236 compared to the village we were living. So the transformation. So how many 00:01:20.269 --> 00:01:23.176 thousands would you say? Well, at that time, I think it started with 00:01:23.209 --> 00:01:28.697 85,000 people. That was the beginning. I mean, right now they have more 00:01:28.730 --> 00:01:34.046 people than that. That number is true. But it was 85,000 starting. And 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:38.826 your village had about how many people probably we were all spread out. So 00:01:38.859 --> 00:01:43.617 you can never even think of uh we had 80,000, more than 1500 but they were 00:01:43.650 --> 00:01:47.206 all spread out huge, 85,000. 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:52.587 And again, it was, it wasn't the Dinka alone, but he had the new, you had 00:01:52.620 --> 00:01:57.046 all these other tribe from South Sudan that you never had a chance to know 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.507 before. So it was kind of like I need the only way it was like a mountain 00:02:00.540 --> 00:02:06.477 part of South Sudan where all tribes were there on. And then you have the 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:12.085 Kenyans not that far from the camp. So you have the Ethiopians not far 00:02:12.118 --> 00:02:16.656 that were already there. You have the folks from Burundi, Rwanda, the 00:02:16.689 --> 00:02:23.267 Congolese, the Uganda, all all there. So at its own way, I felt like this 00:02:23.300 --> 00:02:28.957 is that's where I got introduced to the world outside of my church. So, so 00:02:28.990 --> 00:02:33.066 in Kuma, they started to start with the schools and all that. And that was 00:02:33.099 --> 00:02:38.646 the starting point when I started to go to school at the age of 12 that I 00:02:38.679 --> 00:02:46.245 didn't go to kindergarten in first grade and I didn't even know my ABC DH 00:02:46.278 --> 00:02:52.025 her colors. No, none of that. So, you, did, you like school? It was great 00:02:52.058 --> 00:02:58.005 . I just felt like I was, I was an adult, like a lot of people were, we 00:02:58.038 --> 00:03:01.876 had people as old as 4050 years old that were in the same class with us. 00:03:01.909 --> 00:03:05.816 Some of them, 60 year old, some of them want to learn the colors they 00:03:05.849 --> 00:03:08.656 were reading. 00:03:08.689 --> 00:03:13.136 Right. Yeah. And, um, did, uh, was there a subject that you like the most 00:03:13.169 --> 00:03:21.169 ? Um, growing up I, I had, I've always liked math. Math. Wasn't something 00:03:21.649 --> 00:03:26.745 that intimidated me a lot. Maybe until later when they grew calculus and 00:03:26.778 --> 00:03:31.835 all this, then it start to get a little difficult, but I can understand it. 00:03:31.868 --> 00:03:35.717 That's why you're in banking, right? I wish I had to deal with the 00:03:35.750 --> 00:03:43.750 numbers and I would love it. But the process, how did, um uh how, how did 00:03:44.038 --> 00:03:49.297 you, uh in the camp? How did you like, um, because of the food and the 00:03:49.330 --> 00:03:54.717 scarcity of, well, you get used to it but sometimes you have little, you 00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:59.025 get used to the little you have and then you, you know, you adjust 00:03:59.058 --> 00:04:04.666 yourself to it. If, if it's one time a day we used to eat once a day and 00:04:04.699 --> 00:04:09.547 they benefit people. They used to give out Russia the, the ration of food. 00:04:09.580 --> 00:04:17.467 So they do every 15 days. So twice a month, people go to the center, they 00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:23.467 give you the food, then put it together, you come home and make sure it 00:04:23.500 --> 00:04:30.416 lasts 15 days sometimes when we finish seven days before. So that's when 00:04:30.449 --> 00:04:36.507 you start to be creative. And some people will have a small little garden 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:41.366 where you can grow okra, you can grow vegetables, some you can sell some 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:46.346 of those. And then that will make sure you go through that seven days 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:51.286 before you, you get to the ration. Did your family grow any, did they have 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:55.887 a garden or did they really? Most of it was done by young folks like us? 00:04:55.920 --> 00:05:00.687 So you do it with your parents, whatever you have to water it. So it's 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:05.666 also, it's also the job by itself. We didn't have a lot of water holes. 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:10.455 There were very few because people were put in groups. You may have uh 00:05:10.488 --> 00:05:16.137 groups that have five for 700 people with one uh water holes. That's not 00:05:16.170 --> 00:05:19.325 enough for a lot of people. 00:05:19.358 --> 00:05:23.015 And that water hole doesn't run 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It has 00:05:23.048 --> 00:05:27.317 to have a generator. Sometimes the generator will break down. You will 00:05:27.350 --> 00:05:32.526 wait hours in a day or you have to go to another group that has 1000 folks. 00:05:32.559 --> 00:05:36.395 You have to line up from six. You probably won't, you won't, you won't 00:05:36.428 --> 00:05:44.265 get water until maybe 1 p.m. waiting around. So by itself, it was an eye 00:05:44.298 --> 00:05:47.895 opener, but it was like a training ground. How many years did you spend 00:05:47.928 --> 00:05:53.796 there. I was there nine years, nine years, 1992 until 2001. So, it was 00:05:53.829 --> 00:05:58.486 close to 10. Your English you picked up English pretty quickly. Yeah. I 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:03.805 mean, we were taught in English there that we didn't get a chance to 00:06:03.838 --> 00:06:08.197 practice it. You just go to class and come home. That's all, you know, 00:06:08.230 --> 00:06:12.726 it's your dialect. That, and so did you stay with your parents in the camp 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:18.995 ? And they were advanced in each at that time? So they were like the one 00:06:19.028 --> 00:06:22.127 which you could take care of. 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.836 Um How did you do in um And did you start applying to come to the United 00:06:25.869 --> 00:06:30.757 States? The uh yeah, the process started but it was like a joke in my mind. 00:06:30.790 --> 00:06:37.986 I never thought about it. I mean, like we always had this myth when you 00:06:38.019 --> 00:06:42.687 go to America, you never come back to your homeland. Like I'm not going. 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:48.507 So it took me a while to, to catch on to it. I think around 1998 we start 00:06:48.540 --> 00:06:52.776 to pick up a little bit. They were sending people there taking pictures 00:06:52.809 --> 00:06:58.286 like what do they do? But the actual process I heard going back, learn 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:04.346 later. They actually started back in 1992. That's when they was an 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:08.757 agreement here with the US government. It didn't materialize until almost 00:07:08.790 --> 00:07:13.356 67 years later. So when they were sending people to the camp to go and 00:07:13.389 --> 00:07:18.176 surveys and all the miners living by themselves and all this. And then it 00:07:18.209 --> 00:07:25.947 started by the year 1998 that pick up and then the first batch came to 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:30.666 America in 2000 sometime I think right after Thanksgiving around that time 00:07:30.699 --> 00:07:36.106 , it was Jenny. Jenny was one of the first, one of the first ones. Ok. So 00:07:36.139 --> 00:07:42.036 what year did you come? 2001? March 28? That's when I arrived in Arizona. 00:07:42.069 --> 00:07:45.217 What changed your mind about wanting to come to America? The pictures 00:07:45.250 --> 00:07:49.067 they were sending back or the pictures north of my nephew were the biggest 00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:55.596 part. He came here. He went to a U I think he probably, I do. I think I 00:07:55.629 --> 00:08:00.906 interviewed him. Yeah, I did too. Who were the biggest? He, he's probably 00:08:00.939 --> 00:08:04.836 one of the folks that made sure that I came here. Otherwise, if it was up 00:08:04.869 --> 00:08:08.796 to me, I probably would have not. I wanted to stay with my parents. I 00:08:08.829 --> 00:08:12.197 didn't buy the idea. Somebody says, oh, we're just going to America. I 00:08:12.230 --> 00:08:17.947 never thought it was that can happen in that to, 00:08:17.980 --> 00:08:22.416 I guess the world I read about this story. But as you are living in this 00:08:22.449 --> 00:08:26.856 story, sometimes you don't get to see how hard it is but other people 00:08:26.889 --> 00:08:31.325 around it. So when you came here, what did you discover? Did you come 00:08:31.358 --> 00:08:36.096 straight to Arizona or tell me, tell me about your, where you came. Um 00:08:36.129 --> 00:08:42.765 Well, the flight took off from, from Kumo to, to Nairobi. That was like a 00:08:42.798 --> 00:08:50.798 two hour flight. That was the first time being in a plane. And then from, 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:55.255 I was a little scared, a little scared. Yeah, I was a little scared but at 00:08:55.288 --> 00:09:02.775 the same time there were other people there too. So, uh, from Nairobi we 00:09:02.808 --> 00:09:08.856 took off and then I remember we landed in Amsterdam for about eight hours 00:09:08.889 --> 00:09:12.885 to stay at the airport. But I guess the way it was set up, we were always 00:09:12.918 --> 00:09:16.125 there were people waiting us at the airport. So we went, when we were in 00:09:16.158 --> 00:09:20.346 Amsterdam, they took us to lunch, we ate there eating spaghetti from the 00:09:20.379 --> 00:09:25.667 first time. Something else. How was that? Like when did this get cut? And 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:31.287 then you don't even know you have to go like that and it was like the 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:36.826 taste was ok, but it was bothering you, you know, spaghetti with a bo, did 00:09:36.859 --> 00:09:41.076 it, did it make you think of worms or anything like that or no or just? 00:09:41.109 --> 00:09:46.356 Yeah, I was just kind of the people eat it? That's ok. So that was one of 00:09:46.389 --> 00:09:53.366 your first, the first food? You, so then from there you went to uh we came 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:58.427 to New York, then they took us to the immigration of New York. You trying 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:02.066 to, you are entering into the United States. Where did you think of New 00:10:02.099 --> 00:10:05.246 York when you went there? 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:09.446 I didn't get, I didn't get that opportunity. We were at the airport, we 00:10:09.479 --> 00:10:15.385 got put in the bus, we look at the anxiety was too much. The building 00:10:15.418 --> 00:10:20.385 didn't even impress me that much. And they took us to the uh to the, to 00:10:20.418 --> 00:10:25.167 the hotel to because they're gonna put us on the next day flight. So we 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:30.265 came around in the evening. So we went to the hotel and we almost burn 00:10:30.298 --> 00:10:33.436 ourselves at night because we didn't know how to operate the, the air 00:10:33.469 --> 00:10:36.836 condition. It was cold in New York that I remember. I think it was around 00:10:36.869 --> 00:10:44.287 2028 29 degrees. It was cold inside that we put on the heater. They got. 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:50.096 So we were all sweaty. One night, we opened the door in order to turn and 00:10:50.129 --> 00:10:55.145 shut it off. Finally, we found figure out that we keep pushing the button 00:10:55.178 --> 00:11:00.836 until we shut it off. How many, how many of you guys were there for 00:11:00.869 --> 00:11:05.586 our flight with about 46 F so when we came to New York, then there were 00:11:05.619 --> 00:11:10.586 four going to Iowa four going to other cities and coming here to Phoenix. 00:11:10.619 --> 00:11:15.186 I think it was me and, uh, I think it was four of us. So we took off from 00:11:15.219 --> 00:11:20.775 New York, came to Denver, then from Denver to here to Phoenix, Phoenix. 00:11:20.808 --> 00:11:26.395 And we got picked up at the airport a little hot all the time. So, was it 00:11:26.428 --> 00:11:32.196 the year again? Was it, it was, uh, what month was it? 28? We arrive on 00:11:32.229 --> 00:11:37.547 the 28th of March. Ok. So it wasn't as hard as, it wasn't that bad, but it 00:11:37.580 --> 00:11:43.226 was, uh, compared to what New York was at that time, it was a little hot, 00:11:43.259 --> 00:11:47.375 but the temperature wasn't the thing in our mind at that time. When you 00:11:47.408 --> 00:11:50.625 came, did they put you in school or did they think you were too old for 00:11:50.658 --> 00:11:55.196 school? Did you, when I came, I seem to always, I was always the youngest 00:11:55.229 --> 00:12:01.775 person in the team. So when we went to the IRC with the sponsoring agency 00:12:01.808 --> 00:12:08.399 , the International Rescue TV, uh with the sponsoring agency.