Uh This is Forres Soli interviewing Melissa o'connell on May 24th at 245
for the creative push projects. OK. So, OK, so if you can take us back,
like set up, set it up, set us up, you know, the, the relationship, the
conception, all of it. OK, Bob and I got married in August of 2000 and I,
sorry,
Bob and I got married in 1979. I was 25 and he was 30 we had been involved
with a Christian group at the time and we, this is so complicated.
We weren't planning to get married. We were planning to go to Paris
together and do some Bible fellowships and
we fell in love and there were supposed to be three of us going, gosh, I
don't know if I want to set this all up and we just sound so corny and
it's totally agree. Ok. OK. So there were supposed to be three of us going
um NCO and Bob and me and when we fell in love, which was really fast, we
decided we better not tell anybody and get married the following year
because how weird would it be for Nicole if I'm not sure how we thought we
were going to keep this from her. But, um, that we should just play it
really cool all year. Um, then about,
it's hard, I don't know, maybe six weeks before we were supposed to leave.
Um, Nicole, we got notification that Nicole was going to Switzerland and
not Paris.
So Bob asked me to marry him and I said yes and called mom and dad and
told them I was getting married and they'd never even heard of Bob. And
they were terrified that I was, they didn't understand why I was getting
married. And although I tried to tell them that that this was really my
soul mate. This was the one. Um And so, uh I went home for a two weeks to
visit my mom and dad and came back and we, we got married in a very small
wedding and took off for Paris. Um, and we had our honeymoon there. Um, we
were not, did not have work visas. I spoke fluent French and I had a job
coming back because I'd already been there before. I was um, no, it was a
new job. I was a bilingual secretary for an American who was writing
reports for the Transportation Department.
And uh Bob was doing house painting and handyman things because he was
just learning French. His grandmother was French and was from France. So
that was his inclination when we this whole thing first started was I
wanna go spend a year in France. You've already been there once. Can I
come with you? Yeah, that sounds great. And let's keep it really platonic.
So that, because we've got a, something we want to do and that's probably
why we fell in love so quickly because we took down all the expectations
that you have when you're male and female and we're just really close
friends and we were pretty much together 24 7. And from then on, so you
got married after your trip to Paris right before we got married. Like I
think our engagement was six weeks and he'd only, we only kind of
discovered we were in love maybe two weeks before that. So it was a very,
very, very quick and we were very, very young and naive and fortunately it
did work out. So why were you wanting to keep it platonic then? Because we
thought if we were going over there to um with Nicole, the three of us to
do these Bible studies, then I, I think it was that we were already maybe
a little attracted to each other. And Bob was the one who brought it up.
He said, if we do this, let's just, you know, lay it out on the table. Now
, we're only gonna be friends and nothing's gonna happen. And I said,
that's a great idea. And uh so, and then she canceled that trip and you
were like, let's get married. Well, it was before then that he, we, we
realized, oh my gosh, we wanna get, we, we love each other but we didn't
want to make Nicole feel weird. We were gonna three were gonna be living
together. So that's kind of why. And then it was, oh my gosh, this is back
in 1979. Nicole's not going, I guess we better get married. Why not? So,
so, um
it's really embarrassing to realize how young we were even at 25. But um
I didn't want to take birth control pills. We weren't, obviously, we
weren't planning to have Children right away, maybe a couple of years. And
especially because we were living in Paris. And um so we were using some
natural methods of birth control that obviously
I'm very good. And uh I um we always said that one of the reasons
my, the natural methods weren't, didn't work is because I got an
electrocution in the bathtub from our cat right around the time. We think
I, I got pregnant and we think that maybe threw things off. Um the cat, we
had a teeny, teeny bathroom and a little kitten and this was Paris with,
you know, the voltage is really high and I was sitting in the bathtub and
Bob was brushing his teeth at the sink and the hair dryer was resting on
the sink, the edge of the sink and it was plugged in, it was off and the
kitty reached up and pulled on the cord and we ki it's one of those things
you see in slow motion happening, almost like in a cartoon. And the, um,
hair dryer landed in the bathtub and the shock went right in, through my
hip and then out through my feet to the drain. Um, it was pretty
terrifying and, you know, I guess I'm really lucky that I wasn't lying
down in the bathtub. So anyway, that's what we figured was the, excuse me
, the trigger where the natural birth control maybe wasn't working because
, you know, shortly after that, um, I told Bob I thought it was pregnant,
um, because I had this pain under my arm. So I remember we walked down to
the, uh, English bookstore and, you know, this is before the internet and
, uh, we're looking at books on pregnancy and one of the first symptoms
they said was pain under your arm. So we stopped at the pharmacy on the
way home and bought a test kit and I was pregnant and we had been married
, this was in, I think it was in January or February. So we had not, we'd
gotten married in August. Um, so, uh, what, what was your emotional thing
? At first? We were terrified. What were we gonna do? We never considered
any, you know, it's more like, oh my God, what are we gonna do? We, we're
not settled financially. We're not, we're, we're not even in our country
anymore. And then, um, it got kind of exciting. My sister was already a
couple or a month pregnant. We'd just heard. And, um, of course, and my
poor parents, I swear, you know, I had to, first of all, I had to get
married and then I called him and told him I was gonna have a baby.
So, um, we came home in August and, uh, she was born in October and, you
know, we, so the whole time I was there, I was going to the American
Hospital to get checked every month. And I, I hadn't, I only weighed 100
and 12 when I got pregnant and, um, I think I weighed 100 and 38 when I
had her. So I didn't gain very much weight at all. And, um, and when,
uh, so the due date was October 12th and, um, I was seeing the doctor and
back in the States and, um, because I was so, because I was so small, my,
I was very tight and, um, it was breach, she was breech, the baby was
breech. And so, uh, she told me she didn't really have a problem doing a
breach delivery. She'd done many and, um, she was having me doing all
sorts of exercises to turn the baby and I went in for a checkup one day
and she said, um, I think you're, you're due and we need to get an X ray
to find out what position the baby's in. So I hate to ask you this because
I'm sure you said this. But are you still in France? No, we came back in
August. So I had a couple, she was due October 12th. So when you came back
, you were, your mother saw you for the first time? Can you tell me a
little bit more details like that, how the actual being pregnant was? Oh,
well, um I had horrible headaches and I was working. Um actually I was
doing the secretarial work, two different secretarial jobs. One for this
American and then I'd take a subway ride and go to another part of Paris.
And I was working for this French man who um he was had some kind of
medical device. I don't even remember what it was and I would translate
his letters that he was his marketing letters into English. Um But uh it
was a really, it was a other than getting headaches, it was a pretty fun
pregnancy. You know, we lived, we really loved living in Paris. We lived
near about five blocks from the Eiffel Tower. And um you know, we walked,
I would, I probably, I was in great shape because we walked everywhere. We
, it took me, I think a good 20 minutes to get to the metro to go to work
20 minutes, you know, maybe 10 minutes to get to the job, then I would do
the same thing at lunchtime and then I'd walk 20 minutes home and Bob
actually trained for the Paris marathon while we were there. So, he was
running every day. And it, nowadays, um, there's so much like control over
our diets and, like, what we can have. Did you? Were you like, ok. Well, I
can't drink. No, I, I didn't drink. I know we had wine occasionally. Um, I
think the worst thing is, is I remember going out to dinner with some
French friends that we'd made and they were probably a little bit older
than we were. And, you know, they, when they dine they, they take a long
time and it's really late and I would just always fall asleep. So, but no
, I wasn't really concerned about drinking wine. Uh, I mean, that was the
only thing I ever had and I didn't ever have very much. Um, and there were
no rules. My sister sent me some American prenatal vitamins. Um, because
she was probably more aware of these things than I was. I was pretty,
pretty oblivious, living over there. And did you be naive? Did you have
other friends there that were pregnant too, or? No? So, you were like,
totally isolated. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, communicating with family
back home, even in 1979 we wrote letters and we only called for important
news like cake when I'm pregnant.
Ok. It, so you know, we, we were pretty much just had each other and, yeah.
Did your sister have headaches too? I don't know. I don't think so. I
don't know. Ok. So talk about the flight, I don't remember. Oh, shoot, I
do remember, um, we came with, when we came back to the States, we stayed
for a few days with some friends in New York and I had these horrific
pains in my, in, in my belly, in my stomach. And um they were like on top
, I think it might have been the placenta, you know, everything was so
people didn't communicate. So we went to the hospital and um it was like
that, I think it's Bellevue Hospital in New York, which is like where all
the poor people go. And I think we classified as poor people. Then we only
have like a major, major, we didn't have any insurance in France, not even
travel insurance, didn't even think of it. Um And when we got back to the
States, we got a major medical policy. So, um they, they said I was fine
and I went home and the pains kind of went away and that was that I still
have no idea what it was. But, um, you know, I was, it was pretty easy,
pretty easy pregnancy. Um, other than that time in New York. So, um, so
then you went to New York and then you went to where your family was and,
you know, no, actually we were in Illinois. Um So that's, that in itself
is kind of a long story. But the, the um gynecologist obstetrician was
kind of a family friend and she was gonna deliver for us and there were,
you know, we were still involved with this Christian group. So we were
doing some work there. Um So I didn't, actually, I didn't see my mom and
dad until after, until I had the, I can't remember. I honestly, I don't
think I saw them until I had the baby and then mom came out and stayed for
two weeks. That's nice. Yeah. But yeah. Isn't that weird? So she don't,
she didn't see me pregnant
that time. Um So I went to the, to the doctors and it was, you know, like
after my due date. So it was the 16th and I just thought I was going in
for a checkup and she said, I think you're ready to have this baby. I
didn't think I was ready to have the baby, but we lived 30 minutes away
from the doctor. So she said she wanted to do an X ray to see what
position the baby was in. And now I think she did an X ray on me and the
baby. But um they did and she was um what they called a frog breach. So
her, you know, her legs were split and you know, she was breached. She
said there's no way we can deliver her in that position. Let's do ac
section tonight. And I was pretty upset. Um because, oh, this is the
seventies and I've been reading books like Grantly Dick Reed, who was one
of the first, um you know, promoters of natural childbirth. And I really,
really wanted to do it naturally. We did take some Lamaze classes when we
got back to the States and I was very excited about this experience and I
was very upset because I didn't feel like I was ready to have a baby. And
by the time Bob got to the hospital and um we got ready to do the C
section. I still didn't feel like I was ready to have a baby and I felt
like I was kind of getting robbed of some experience that I'd been
psyching myself for, for nine months. Um It was, it, it was a hospital and
s Southern Chicago, Northern Indiana and it was Bob was the first, of
course, they gave me a general anesthetic, which is amazing. Um My sister
in California who'd had a baby six weeks prior to me, she'd had ac section
two, she was awake and they gave her a bikini cut for the incision. Well,
the surgeon who did my C section in another part of the country the same
year gave me a vertical incision, gave me a general anesthetic. However,
we did make history because Bob was the first father to have ever
witnessed a Cesarean in that hospital. So they let him watch and a, and I
don't know what happened because, you know, I was out. So when you came to
, were you in like recovery? No, they did wake me up in the room. I said I
did see, you know, they brought, they brought me the baby and I held her
for a few minutes and then, you know, they whisked her away and, um, and
she was just this little teeny thing with a lot of dark hair and very,
very cute. Her weight was £6.13 ounces. So she was little and, um, and I
was, you know, I hadn't gained a lot of weight. Lauren was a lot bigger.
Um, and that, that also kind of was the trend as they got older. They were
about 22 months apart and people, by the time Lauren was two and Danielle
, almost four people used to say, are they twins? And even in high school
when they look so much different every once in a while, people would say,
well, why are you twins? No, I don't know. It's funny, you know, nowadays
I feel like babies tend to be on the large side, you know, and it was more
common to have smaller size babies. Yeah, my sister had, um, two large
babies and Lauren was pretty large. Lauren was,
she was almost £9. She was £8.16 ounces or £8.13 ounces, something like
that. She, she was, she was big. Um ok, so let's stick with the first
story. So yes, so you um did you find when you, because you were given a
general that you were like weak muscled or could you still have that
bonding with Danielle? I, you know, again, I felt so ripped off with that
but I will say and, and people say this over and over again, you, you,
before you have Children, you focus so much on the experience of, of that
, of the birth. And um, once you, you're a mother and you have the
relationship and, and I will say the older you get that all kind of fades
away and you kind of like, it doesn't matter how she came, she was ours
and I was absolutely gonna nurse this baby and did and she cried pretty
much nonstop for the first two months. She was colicky. She would, didn't
want to be, you know, you know, again, this is a world without very much
information. The only support I had was the little La Leche League book
and I did have someone I could call, but it didn't seem to be, I don't
know if I was eating foods that she was allergic to. I don't know if I
wasn't making enough milk, but pretty much I nursed her 24 7 whenever she
wanted it. She slept with us because I, she would fall asleep in my arms
and the moment I would, she'd be asleep and I'd put her down and then
she'd startle and wake up and I, you know, I think, well, I, maybe I'd, if
I'd known about swaddling or maybe it was just be, maybe she was too early.
Who knows? You know, again, so little information back then. Um, I don't
know. Did, and was she, did you take her to a pediatrician And were like,
oh, it's really fussy. And yeah, I can't remember. I do remember trying to
stop eating certain foods and pretty much, you know, it's so funny. I
remember mom was there and we were gonna go to the fabric store to because
um, we were making um, a crib bumper and, and a skirt for the crib and I
come from a family of seamstresses. So we left Bob and Danielle together
and we had literally just, and this is the first time I'd been out of the
house. So we got into the fabric store and the woman looked up and she
said, are you Melissa o'connell? And I said yes. And she said, and handed
me the phone and I picked up the phone and all I could hear was this baby
screaming and Bob said, I think you better come home.
So we did, we went home and I, I finally just kind of just said, ok, I'll
do what I'll have to do. And I just, I didn't I wasn't, I wasn't depressed.
Um, I didn't work so I wasn't worried about that. I just took care of the
baby. I nursed her when she wanted to nurse and I held her and since she
wouldn't sleep on her own, she slept with us wasn't worried about rolling
over on her. It was the most natural thing in the world. And suddenly
about the two month mark, she started smiling, Anne was happy and she was
fine. As far as the crime I did nurse her for a whole year. I can remember
on her like around 11 months, I tried starting to feed her foods and she
really didn't want, it, wouldn't eat it. And, um, on her first birthday,
we offered her some cake and she didn't want any of that either. So, can
you hear that? Ok. OK. We're gonna pause until that buzzing stops. Um, can
you, uh, talk a little bit about maybe the difference between like feeling
isolated and that in, in France and then coming home and having your
mother and what that was? Or were you still feeling isolated? Did you have
girlfriends? Then? I didn't, I didn't feel isolated. I, you know, it was
just the way it was. Um, I had Bob and, you know, he really was and is
sorry, he is, he was always my best friend. He's, you know, we just, we, I
never felt alone. I never felt isolated. It's only in hindsight that you
realize how much information I didn't have and how much, maybe I was just
doing it. Like people have been doing it forever. You know, I, without a
lot of information, um, I thought I was very knowledgeable. I thought I
was much more knowledgeable than my mother and I'm sure I was because I
was a reader and, and I did have, and I think they're still at Danielle's
House. The, those original books that I scoured. So, um, and I got those
all in, in Paris bought them there. How was Bob uh throughout Moon finding
out that you were going having ac section? And was that hard on him to see
you go through that or? I don't think so. It was just, you know, he was
very understanding, he understood why I wanted to do it. But we didn't
question the, you know, the, the choice that the doctor made. Um, but we
did change things up a little bit when Lauren was came. So, so yeah, we
can transition to Lauren's birth. Was that planned? Um Yes, Lauren was
planned. Um So when Danielle was about 13 months old, we said, you know,
if we're gonna, we have this family, let's have another one and I was
pretty much instantly pregnant.
So they were 22 months apart and that's when because I got pregnant then I
had to Wean Danielle and I, I had asthma as a child. And so looking back
and understanding what had happened when my, when I was about six weeks
old, I, um, had some problems and eat, you know, I'm not sure if it was
colic or what. And my mom started nursing me and put me on formula and I
got asthma very quickly. And as a small child, I was very allergic to a
lot of different foods and went through, you know, I still have asthma. So
because of this and that's one of the reasons why I was insistent on
nursing for at least a year and being as late as I possibly could to, um,
introduce them to solid foods because I didn't want them to pick up that
tendency. Um, it worked with Danielle. It didn't work with Lauren.
So, you found that you were pregnant? Yes. Was the pregnancy the same or
how is it different? Well, I had a toddler, I had a baby. Um,
you know, I wasn't getting as much exercise because we had a car and, um,
I did have a lot of friends who were pregnant at the same time. Now we
were, I was at a mommy's group. So it, that was really fun to be pre and,
and my sis, my sister was trying to get pregnant. She didn't get pregnant
at the same time. But, um, we were still miles away anyway. So it was a,
again I don't have, well, one of the choices I made. So a lot of the women
I knew were doing natural childbirth. We were all nursing. It was a, um,
it was a pretty popular thing to do back then. No one wanted to do
Cesareans or, um, feed their babies formula. So I decided that I wanted to
have a natural delivery with this second child. So I found from a friend
of mine, um, a doctor who specialized in high risk pregnancies, which I
was since I had already had a section. And, um, so I went to him and he
said, yep, I could do it. I, I got bigger with Lauren but not that much
bigger. Um, maybe £5 more. So, you know, it was just, we were very
conscientious, more conscientious of what we ate then I think, than
mothers are today and I don't know if that made it easier for us or she
was still a big baby. So, um, they had given me a due date of July 12th.
And so, you know, it's funny, I don't remember a lot about being
uncomfortable in the pregnancy or anything. I mean, it was just, I felt
great. I always felt really good. So, yeah, Danielle had really good
pregnancies too. It sounded like you guys have, you know, a genetic gift
or predisposition to making babies and growing them. Um, ok. So you were
pregnant, you were planning on delivering natural and, um, did they, were
they monitoring the whole breach situation? Is that something that they
were concerned about since the first one was breach or I don't, I, I don't
think they, they thought that that necessarily was gonna happen again. Um
, and it, I don't, I don't, I wasn't as small as I was with Danielle and I
wasn't as, you know, my body was a little loosened up. I think so. I never
felt, uh, she was never breach. Um, at least, you know, I, I guess all
babies are breached to begin with. She turned fine. You know, I was
traveling, I was flying ho, I flew home from the first time I flew home
from Paris when I was seven months pregnant. You know. Um, so I don't know
what kind of stress that puts on the body. It, it could have, who knows.
But anyway, um, so they told me my due date was July 12th, but July 12
came and went and they said no, you're not ready. And, um, we waited and
we waited and we waited and, um, I can remember Lawrence really
specifically because I finally got the, the experience.
I'm not sure if it was,
it was what it was. So, um, we had one car and I, uh, you know, of course
you think you're getting contractions? I was finally starting. Oh, I'm
really gonna have a baby. I can feel these contractions and, um, I don't
remember exactly what came up to it, but I said, I'm, I'm ready. I think
we need to go to the hospital. So, um, we drove Danielle over to the
friends who were taking care of her and then we drove the 20 minutes
further to the hospital. This is where the doctor, the hospital that they
worked out of. And we got there and they, I got in the hospital room, they
examined me and they said to me, they said, honey, you aren't even close,
you're a long ways off. Go home. So I was very disappointed and we went
back and we picked up Danielle, we went home. Bob said, ok, I'm gonna go
do a bid. And I said, ok, I'm gonna go to the grocery store with Danielle
and I was pushing her down the aisle and she's, you know, 2122 months old.
And all of a sudden I got this contraction that made me keel over the
shopping cart. And, um, uh, we went, we walked home because this was just
down the street from where we lived and Bob had the car and I called, I
didn't call Bob because we didn't have phones.
I waited until he got home. And I said, I was, I said, ok, this is really
it. I don't care what they said we're going back. So by the time we
dropped Danielle off at the babysitters again, and we got, I got back in
the car and my water broke and I pretty much was a basket case all the way
to the hospital. When I got to the hospital, they came out with a gurney
and put me on it and, and I, and then I, I got out of the car and threw up
everywhere and I, I, you know, of course I said, oh, thank goodness, I
mean, I'm, I'm almost there, I'm gonna have this baby. And so, I mean, it
was probably 830 or nine at night and she wasn't born until noon the next
day.
And I had also because I insisted on natural childbirth said I did not
want any drugs. So the only drug I had was a local, um, anesthetic to the
cervix.
He didn't do much. It was pretty intense. Um, so, yeah, there was no
getting around it. I was gonna have the baby this time and, um, but I
wasn't because it had started, you know, so quickly, I guess I, I guess
sometimes most women over a process of a couple of weeks, they, their body
gets ready for the baby and mine just kind of had to jump start. And so,
um, basically I was just in that room by myself and, and I, I've teased
Bob still to this day because he just kept falling asleep, you know, and
I'm sitting here doing everything I can to, you know, get through the pain
and get through these contractions and they'd come and check on you every
once in a while. But, you know, basically you're just parked in room until
, until you're needed. And did you do your LAMAs and all of that? Yeah.
What I could remember, you know? Yeah, I didn't take refresher classes. I
, I think, actually, I really don't remember. Did you, were you on your
back the whole time or were you walking around? No, I wasn't walking
around. I was pretty much on my back. Which is so crazy again. I thought
I'd read a lot but there was a lot. We, you know, I, I still didn't know
and no one was there to tell me. And, you know, my, um, my niece, Amber is
a doula and she just moved back to town and, uh, she was born Dan Amelia
was born in September of the first three grandchildren, Danielle in
October and Amelia in, um, February. So there are three, are really close
in age, this first three. But, um, you know, I think, oh, well, I had, had
someone like Amber, wouldn't that have been great? Um, because men and no
offense, Bob. But, you know, no matter how much they are your partner and
all this, they really haven't a clue. You know, there's, and there's no
way, you know, how can they, how can they understand what it's like or
what you're going through or what you need? Really? So, you know, um,
it was a long night. It was very painful. I was pretty worn out. I didn't
sleep much. Um, and the pain, you know, if I could do it all over again, I
would have had pain medication. So I'm not really great with pain. But, um
, at some point I guess they're early in the morning, maybe around 10
o'clock, they said, you know, it looks like, you know, now's the time and
we went into another, uh, you know, a delivery room, you know, basically
an operating room and, or look like one And Bob is with me this time and,
um, I just was having a hard time delivering her and she wasn't coming and
I was, was very excruciatingly painful and I was exhausted. And, um,
finally, uh, right around noon. So I've been pushing for a couple of hours.
Um, the doctor said that, uh, her heart rate was dropping and they needed
to get her out. And, um, they gave me an extremely long a py, they still
needed forceps and four people basically pushed on the top of my stomach
and pushed her out. Um, and when she came out, she was this great big,
almost a £9 baby. And, uh, but she had inhaled meconium and the doctor, I
mean, this is, he leaned over that baby and with his own mouth, he sucked
that meconium and spit it out.
Can you believe that?
But other than that, her, um, her score was pretty high other than that.
And, um, they, you know, I, I remember and they, they also gave her to me
right away. But I don't, they weren't real big on that yet as far as, you
know, so I didn't really see her until they brought her to me in my room.
But at this time they would, they would, um, they would allow her to stay
in the room with me in a crib in a little bassinet. Um, but I was, I was
pretty beat up and, um,
then something really odd happened and that was that her blood sugar
dropped to zero and she convulsed. And, um, so they gave her a shot of
glucose and they said, you know, it's probably just the stress and from
the birth and just keep nursing her and we'll monitor her. And so, um,
they wanted to keep her in the nursery that night and this, I, I remember
this specifically because the pediatrician um came in the next morning and
, and her blood sugar did drop again in the middle of the night in the
morning. He said that he had watched, stayed with her all night and then,
um, didn't tell me until, uh about got a bill about two weeks later that
he charged me. This is in 1982 like $800 to watch my baby all night.
Um I thought that was kind of funny. Um, but the next morning, she, they,
they said they were needed to transfer her to the, um Neonatal Center in
Chicago. So, um, they took her by ambulance to the Neonatal center and it
was, you know, it was, it was, that was pretty, pretty weird and a surreal
experience to go home and go to the empty house without a baby with our
daughter and no baby. And, um, they wouldn't, you know, these are also the
days where you didn't get to stay with your Children in the hospital. So
we had to, we just, you know, I was pumping breast milk and taking it into
them. And of course, in her, I was wanting just to do everything naturally
and she was in there for about five days. And in this Nick U unit, there
were these little teeny babies, you know, like
as big as your hands and then there's this great big healthy baby and
pretty much they monitor and then they did all these tests and they said
she had her adrenal gland was bruised but she was fine and I think they
finally let her come home.
Were you like really stressed out about that? And was it? Yes, it was very
traumatic. It was traumatic emotionally again because, you know, I wanted
to have the baby with me and um and I was afraid, you know, what was wrong
with her. And um and we were also planning to move back to California and
we were already a month delayed because we thought she would be born. So
my mom flew out again and uh she was, she came out, she was there before
we brought Lauren home and two weeks later we moved to California. Bill
Horn was a, you know, a really, you know, big baby and she didn't have the
prop, she slept well and, you know, nursed fi I nursed her successfully.
So I guess the things I did really, I, I was able to successfully nurse
both of them, which is actually looking back that way if I had to say,
could I have that perfect delivery or could I have had the experience of
nursing my daughters? Um, I got the one that I think was the most
important.
Um So, ok, I'm gonna ask you a couple. So one is obviously I've forgotten
a lot of the, a lot of stuff. It's a great story. Um, ok, so if you could
like kind of, um think about summarizing your experience somehow, like
with a word or a phrasing of words, both of them together or separately.
It's your call. I think they're interesting stories because they're like
two sides of a coin, you know, that the way that you've experienced them,
I kind of see them as a bridge, you know, or being together,
you know, I, I was never one who thought about having Children as a
teenager. I babysat a couple times, um, loved to play dolls when I was
little, but still it wasn't like I couldn't wait to get married and have
Children that really it wasn't, it just kind of happened to me and, um,
but I think that the experience of having both those, those Children, uh,
it's just fulfilling, um, you know, I honestly, I,
I can't think of anything that I would rather be known for in this world
than to have, you know, raise two citizens of the world who are, you know
, intelligent kind, loving, contributing
that, that they're, um, you know, uh, a positive influence on the world,
which I think my daughters are. So, if that's all I've ever done in my
life, ok.
They are, they're amazing. They're amazing women. Not sure why. That's um
emotional.
I, I can understand why. I mean, I like, um just going to the graduation
ceremonies and I see kids graduate and I think I can't imagine seeing my
son up there and I get a little emotional. He's not, he's four, you know,
I can't even imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Something about seeing them become who
they are and have them be good people. It's important. Yeah. Um OK. And
the funny thing is the next question I was gonna ask you is what is it
like now? You know, seeing them kind of go through these stages of life,
right? Like Danielle had got, had these kids and, and more in, in this new
marriage and thinking about Children, like, what is that experience for
you? I have always been one who rejoices with every year.
I never was sad when they left home. They both, you know, I was kind of,
when I was a little girl, I knew that I would go off to college when I
graduated from high school. It was just an expectation. And my daughters
did too. And I, I always kind of scratch my head with these mothers who
are so sad to lose their Children. And I never really felt that way. I was
excited for them and I was excited for me because, you know, a new era for
me. And honestly, I have to say, you know, now they've, you know, they're
in their thirties and I still feel the same way. There's life is a journey
and it just gets better, you know, great memories. Interesting to think
back on those, those birthing experiences. It was just a little girl and,
um, you know, all these, these experiences that we have, they just, you
know, frame your, your, your, the way you look at life. And, um, you know
, I've been so fortunate to be married to Bob still and, and have such a
great relationship. So, um I, my relationship with Lauren and Danielle has
just gotten stronger and better. Um It was hard for me, you know, and I've
been with Danielle for all the verse and, and it was funny because I, it
was something I didn't have my mom with me and of course she wouldn't have
been able to be with me anyway. I was lucky Bob could. But, um, when
Danielle had the first, I, uh, didn't, wasn't really part of the birth
until she had to go to the hospital and then we went and, um, and then,
but with the other two, I was in the delivery room with her husband for
both of the Children. And what an honor. You know, it's kind of full
circle and, um, you know, to see Lauren so happy with Jay, I just,
you know, I feel like they have something like what Bob and I have, which
is something truly lasting. And, um, I think she's a better woman because
of Jay and hopefully he's a better man because of Lauren. But, uh, I, I
mean, yeah, it must be really, um, wonderful too when Danielle was telling
her story that she, when she imagined having Children that she really
wanted to have two girls that were about the same age gap between her and
her sister because of that relationship she has with her sister. And I
think that's really a testament to like your relationship with them that,
that she wants to recreate her childhood basically, you know. Yeah, that
says something. Well, I had an older sister but she was three years older
and we're very, very close now but we weren't really close, you know,
sometimes three years is a lot. And, um, but my very close friend in high
school, her sister was only two years older. And we even socialized
together. So I kind of really definitely on purpose, wanted them close
like that and, and I do, I see that with Quinn and Casey too. I think that
they'll have that same experience. It's nice to have siblings.
OK. Is there anything else that you forgot to say that? Maybe you wanna
add?
You know, it's funny because I think of, you know, all these um questions
about the hospital in the room and the family present,
it was so different back then. So different and changes were just starting
to come. Like I, as I said, Michelle had that c section with a scar that
wouldn't show I never wore a bikini again. Um which was kind of sad. That
was always, you know, to be 25 years old and, and have a scar running up
the middle of your stomach. Um you know, and to not be awake, to
experience it and then how dumb to not even get some pain meds the second
time. And you know, it was, it was a, it was an old hospital and you're
talking about a, everything was stark. There was nothing, no birthing
rooms, no counseling, nothing. And I guess I'm just really fortunate
because I didn't ever get depressed or didn't have any challenges with,
you know, that part of getting through the pregnancy or afterwards. So
just kind of count my blessings. All I had is a couple of good stories. I
really can't think of anything else when you were talking about. Um, was
it Lauren that had the call? No, it was Danielle. I, I was thinking about
, uh, when my son was a baby and he was crying constantly and you're right
, you just sort of had this attitude. It's like, yeah, this is like, this
is my new job. Yeah. Exactly. And this is my job and so I'm just going to
do it and do it. Well, it's like no other option. The two TV shows I
remember and I'm, I've never been a TV watcher, but I probably watch more
TV in the first two months of Danielle's life than I ever have in my life.
But, um, Tom Hanks was in a sitcom called Bosom Buddies and I would watch
that and then Julia Child, and I still make a couple of the recipes that
she did on the TV when I was nursing. Danielle.
Yeah, I just held that child. She turned out ok. It worked clearly. It
worked. All right. Anything else? All right. I think we're gonna end there
then.