WEBVTT 00:00:02.559 --> 00:00:04.559 Uh This is Forres Soli interviewing Melissa o'connell on May 24th at 245 00:00:09.108 --> 00:00:13.736 for the creative push projects. OK. So, OK, so if you can take us back, 00:00:13.769 --> 00:00:18.467 like set up, set it up, set us up, you know, the, the relationship, the 00:00:18.500 --> 00:00:25.837 conception, all of it. OK, Bob and I got married in August of 2000 and I, 00:00:25.870 --> 00:00:28.256 sorry, 00:00:28.289 --> 00:00:34.957 Bob and I got married in 1979. I was 25 and he was 30 we had been involved 00:00:34.990 --> 00:00:42.990 with a Christian group at the time and we, this is so complicated. 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:47.176 We weren't planning to get married. We were planning to go to Paris 00:00:47.209 --> 00:00:53.576 together and do some Bible fellowships and 00:00:53.609 --> 00:00:57.866 we fell in love and there were supposed to be three of us going, gosh, I 00:00:57.899 --> 00:01:01.807 don't know if I want to set this all up and we just sound so corny and 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:06.717 it's totally agree. Ok. OK. So there were supposed to be three of us going 00:01:06.750 --> 00:01:14.217 um NCO and Bob and me and when we fell in love, which was really fast, we 00:01:14.250 --> 00:01:17.337 decided we better not tell anybody and get married the following year 00:01:17.370 --> 00:01:21.025 because how weird would it be for Nicole if I'm not sure how we thought we 00:01:21.058 --> 00:01:25.495 were going to keep this from her. But, um, that we should just play it 00:01:25.528 --> 00:01:31.467 really cool all year. Um, then about, 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:36.786 it's hard, I don't know, maybe six weeks before we were supposed to leave. 00:01:36.819 --> 00:01:40.555 Um, Nicole, we got notification that Nicole was going to Switzerland and 00:01:40.588 --> 00:01:43.587 not Paris. 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:49.536 So Bob asked me to marry him and I said yes and called mom and dad and 00:01:49.569 --> 00:01:53.117 told them I was getting married and they'd never even heard of Bob. And 00:01:53.150 --> 00:01:57.717 they were terrified that I was, they didn't understand why I was getting 00:01:57.750 --> 00:02:01.837 married. And although I tried to tell them that that this was really my 00:02:01.870 --> 00:02:09.870 soul mate. This was the one. Um And so, uh I went home for a two weeks to 00:02:11.538 --> 00:02:16.616 visit my mom and dad and came back and we, we got married in a very small 00:02:16.649 --> 00:02:22.686 wedding and took off for Paris. Um, and we had our honeymoon there. Um, we 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:29.696 were not, did not have work visas. I spoke fluent French and I had a job 00:02:29.729 --> 00:02:33.876 coming back because I'd already been there before. I was um, no, it was a 00:02:33.909 --> 00:02:40.835 new job. I was a bilingual secretary for an American who was writing 00:02:40.868 --> 00:02:44.656 reports for the Transportation Department. 00:02:44.689 --> 00:02:49.066 And uh Bob was doing house painting and handyman things because he was 00:02:49.099 --> 00:02:52.457 just learning French. His grandmother was French and was from France. So 00:02:52.490 --> 00:02:57.237 that was his inclination when we this whole thing first started was I 00:02:57.270 --> 00:03:00.475 wanna go spend a year in France. You've already been there once. Can I 00:03:00.508 --> 00:03:06.416 come with you? Yeah, that sounds great. And let's keep it really platonic. 00:03:06.449 --> 00:03:12.047 So that, because we've got a, something we want to do and that's probably 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:18.085 why we fell in love so quickly because we took down all the expectations 00:03:18.118 --> 00:03:21.957 that you have when you're male and female and we're just really close 00:03:21.990 --> 00:03:29.225 friends and we were pretty much together 24 7. And from then on, so you 00:03:29.258 --> 00:03:34.225 got married after your trip to Paris right before we got married. Like I 00:03:34.258 --> 00:03:39.585 think our engagement was six weeks and he'd only, we only kind of 00:03:39.618 --> 00:03:43.335 discovered we were in love maybe two weeks before that. So it was a very, 00:03:43.368 --> 00:03:49.237 very, very quick and we were very, very young and naive and fortunately it 00:03:49.270 --> 00:03:53.335 did work out. So why were you wanting to keep it platonic then? Because we 00:03:53.368 --> 00:03:58.126 thought if we were going over there to um with Nicole, the three of us to 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:02.827 do these Bible studies, then I, I think it was that we were already maybe 00:04:02.860 --> 00:04:06.066 a little attracted to each other. And Bob was the one who brought it up. 00:04:06.099 --> 00:04:10.316 He said, if we do this, let's just, you know, lay it out on the table. Now 00:04:10.349 --> 00:04:13.297 , we're only gonna be friends and nothing's gonna happen. And I said, 00:04:13.330 --> 00:04:19.426 that's a great idea. And uh so, and then she canceled that trip and you 00:04:19.459 --> 00:04:25.226 were like, let's get married. Well, it was before then that he, we, we 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:29.955 realized, oh my gosh, we wanna get, we, we love each other but we didn't 00:04:29.988 --> 00:04:33.137 want to make Nicole feel weird. We were gonna three were gonna be living 00:04:33.170 --> 00:04:39.906 together. So that's kind of why. And then it was, oh my gosh, this is back 00:04:39.939 --> 00:04:47.939 in 1979. Nicole's not going, I guess we better get married. Why not? So, 00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:50.717 so, um 00:04:50.750 --> 00:04:57.495 it's really embarrassing to realize how young we were even at 25. But um 00:04:57.528 --> 00:05:00.127 I didn't want to take birth control pills. We weren't, obviously, we 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:04.486 weren't planning to have Children right away, maybe a couple of years. And 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:10.627 especially because we were living in Paris. And um so we were using some 00:05:10.660 --> 00:05:15.526 natural methods of birth control that obviously 00:05:15.559 --> 00:05:23.559 I'm very good. And uh I um we always said that one of the reasons 00:05:25.869 --> 00:05:29.705 my, the natural methods weren't, didn't work is because I got an 00:05:29.738 --> 00:05:34.796 electrocution in the bathtub from our cat right around the time. We think 00:05:34.829 --> 00:05:39.116 I, I got pregnant and we think that maybe threw things off. Um the cat, we 00:05:39.149 --> 00:05:43.346 had a teeny, teeny bathroom and a little kitten and this was Paris with, 00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:47.637 you know, the voltage is really high and I was sitting in the bathtub and 00:05:47.670 --> 00:05:52.866 Bob was brushing his teeth at the sink and the hair dryer was resting on 00:05:52.899 --> 00:05:57.046 the sink, the edge of the sink and it was plugged in, it was off and the 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:03.745 kitty reached up and pulled on the cord and we ki it's one of those things 00:06:03.778 --> 00:06:10.705 you see in slow motion happening, almost like in a cartoon. And the, um, 00:06:10.738 --> 00:06:15.205 hair dryer landed in the bathtub and the shock went right in, through my 00:06:15.238 --> 00:06:19.495 hip and then out through my feet to the drain. Um, it was pretty 00:06:19.528 --> 00:06:23.426 terrifying and, you know, I guess I'm really lucky that I wasn't lying 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:28.166 down in the bathtub. So anyway, that's what we figured was the, excuse me 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.575 , the trigger where the natural birth control maybe wasn't working because 00:06:31.608 --> 00:06:38.955 , you know, shortly after that, um, I told Bob I thought it was pregnant, 00:06:38.988 --> 00:06:43.796 um, because I had this pain under my arm. So I remember we walked down to 00:06:43.829 --> 00:06:49.336 the, uh, English bookstore and, you know, this is before the internet and 00:06:49.369 --> 00:06:56.026 , uh, we're looking at books on pregnancy and one of the first symptoms 00:06:56.059 --> 00:06:59.846 they said was pain under your arm. So we stopped at the pharmacy on the 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:03.916 way home and bought a test kit and I was pregnant and we had been married 00:07:03.949 --> 00:07:09.486 , this was in, I think it was in January or February. So we had not, we'd 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:15.156 gotten married in August. Um, so, uh, what, what was your emotional thing 00:07:15.189 --> 00:07:19.075 ? At first? We were terrified. What were we gonna do? We never considered 00:07:19.108 --> 00:07:22.536 any, you know, it's more like, oh my God, what are we gonna do? We, we're 00:07:22.569 --> 00:07:27.395 not settled financially. We're not, we're, we're not even in our country 00:07:27.428 --> 00:07:33.455 anymore. And then, um, it got kind of exciting. My sister was already a 00:07:33.488 --> 00:07:38.387 couple or a month pregnant. We'd just heard. And, um, of course, and my 00:07:38.420 --> 00:07:41.937 poor parents, I swear, you know, I had to, first of all, I had to get 00:07:41.970 --> 00:07:48.906 married and then I called him and told him I was gonna have a baby. 00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:55.265 So, um, we came home in August and, uh, she was born in October and, you 00:07:55.298 --> 00:07:58.145 know, we, so the whole time I was there, I was going to the American 00:07:58.178 --> 00:08:03.877 Hospital to get checked every month. And I, I hadn't, I only weighed 100 00:08:03.910 --> 00:08:09.507 and 12 when I got pregnant and, um, I think I weighed 100 and 38 when I 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:17.356 had her. So I didn't gain very much weight at all. And, um, and when, 00:08:17.389 --> 00:08:24.866 uh, so the due date was October 12th and, um, I was seeing the doctor and 00:08:24.899 --> 00:08:32.899 back in the States and, um, because I was so, because I was so small, my, 00:08:33.149 --> 00:08:40.025 I was very tight and, um, it was breach, she was breech, the baby was 00:08:40.058 --> 00:08:45.226 breech. And so, uh, she told me she didn't really have a problem doing a 00:08:45.259 --> 00:08:50.866 breach delivery. She'd done many and, um, she was having me doing all 00:08:50.899 --> 00:08:57.125 sorts of exercises to turn the baby and I went in for a checkup one day 00:08:57.158 --> 00:09:02.967 and she said, um, I think you're, you're due and we need to get an X ray 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.775 to find out what position the baby's in. So I hate to ask you this because 00:09:06.808 --> 00:09:09.986 I'm sure you said this. But are you still in France? No, we came back in 00:09:10.019 --> 00:09:14.696 August. So I had a couple, she was due October 12th. So when you came back 00:09:14.729 --> 00:09:19.586 , you were, your mother saw you for the first time? Can you tell me a 00:09:19.619 --> 00:09:24.066 little bit more details like that, how the actual being pregnant was? Oh, 00:09:24.099 --> 00:09:30.427 well, um I had horrible headaches and I was working. Um actually I was 00:09:30.460 --> 00:09:34.186 doing the secretarial work, two different secretarial jobs. One for this 00:09:34.219 --> 00:09:38.537 American and then I'd take a subway ride and go to another part of Paris. 00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:45.996 And I was working for this French man who um he was had some kind of 00:09:46.029 --> 00:09:50.047 medical device. I don't even remember what it was and I would translate 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:57.696 his letters that he was his marketing letters into English. Um But uh it 00:09:57.729 --> 00:10:00.927 was a really, it was a other than getting headaches, it was a pretty fun 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:04.726 pregnancy. You know, we lived, we really loved living in Paris. We lived 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:10.696 near about five blocks from the Eiffel Tower. And um you know, we walked, 00:10:10.729 --> 00:10:14.775 I would, I probably, I was in great shape because we walked everywhere. We 00:10:14.808 --> 00:10:20.025 , it took me, I think a good 20 minutes to get to the metro to go to work 00:10:20.058 --> 00:10:23.606 20 minutes, you know, maybe 10 minutes to get to the job, then I would do 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:27.927 the same thing at lunchtime and then I'd walk 20 minutes home and Bob 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.640 actually trained for the Paris marathon while we were there. So, he was 00:10:31.673 --> 00:10:38.371 running every day. And it, nowadays, um, there's so much like control over 00:10:38.404 --> 00:10:42.081 our diets and, like, what we can have. Did you? Were you like, ok. Well, I 00:10:42.114 --> 00:10:47.811 can't drink. No, I, I didn't drink. I know we had wine occasionally. Um, I 00:10:47.844 --> 00:10:50.731 think the worst thing is, is I remember going out to dinner with some 00:10:50.764 --> 00:10:54.250 French friends that we'd made and they were probably a little bit older 00:10:54.283 --> 00:10:58.186 than we were. And, you know, they, when they dine they, they take a long 00:10:58.219 --> 00:11:02.096 time and it's really late and I would just always fall asleep. So, but no 00:11:02.129 --> 00:11:05.326 , I wasn't really concerned about drinking wine. Uh, I mean, that was the 00:11:05.359 --> 00:11:09.826 only thing I ever had and I didn't ever have very much. Um, and there were 00:11:09.859 --> 00:11:15.265 no rules. My sister sent me some American prenatal vitamins. Um, because 00:11:15.298 --> 00:11:18.596 she was probably more aware of these things than I was. I was pretty, 00:11:18.629 --> 00:11:23.297 pretty oblivious, living over there. And did you be naive? Did you have 00:11:23.330 --> 00:11:26.135 other friends there that were pregnant too, or? No? So, you were like, 00:11:26.168 --> 00:11:31.307 totally isolated. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, communicating with family 00:11:31.340 --> 00:11:37.677 back home, even in 1979 we wrote letters and we only called for important 00:11:37.710 --> 00:11:41.096 news like cake when I'm pregnant. 00:11:41.129 --> 00:11:47.086 Ok. It, so you know, we, we were pretty much just had each other and, yeah. 00:11:47.119 --> 00:11:51.217 Did your sister have headaches too? I don't know. I don't think so. I 00:11:51.250 --> 00:11:57.746 don't know. Ok. So talk about the flight, I don't remember. Oh, shoot, I 00:11:57.779 --> 00:12:03.967 do remember, um, we came with, when we came back to the States, we stayed 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:08.446 for a few days with some friends in New York and I had these horrific 00:12:08.479 --> 00:12:15.625 pains in my, in, in my belly, in my stomach. And um they were like on top 00:12:15.658 --> 00:12:19.145 , I think it might have been the placenta, you know, everything was so 00:12:19.178 --> 00:12:24.576 people didn't communicate. So we went to the hospital and um it was like 00:12:24.609 --> 00:12:27.586 that, I think it's Bellevue Hospital in New York, which is like where all 00:12:27.619 --> 00:12:32.417 the poor people go. And I think we classified as poor people. Then we only 00:12:32.450 --> 00:12:36.996 have like a major, major, we didn't have any insurance in France, not even 00:12:37.029 --> 00:12:41.436 travel insurance, didn't even think of it. Um And when we got back to the 00:12:41.469 --> 00:12:48.797 States, we got a major medical policy. So, um they, they said I was fine 00:12:48.830 --> 00:12:52.596 and I went home and the pains kind of went away and that was that I still 00:12:52.629 --> 00:12:57.856 have no idea what it was. But, um, you know, I was, it was pretty easy, 00:12:57.889 --> 00:13:04.836 pretty easy pregnancy. Um, other than that time in New York. So, um, so 00:13:04.869 --> 00:13:10.275 then you went to New York and then you went to where your family was and, 00:13:10.308 --> 00:13:16.246 you know, no, actually we were in Illinois. Um So that's, that in itself 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.696 is kind of a long story. But the, the um gynecologist obstetrician was 00:13:20.729 --> 00:13:25.505 kind of a family friend and she was gonna deliver for us and there were, 00:13:25.538 --> 00:13:27.645 you know, we were still involved with this Christian group. So we were 00:13:27.678 --> 00:13:32.066 doing some work there. Um So I didn't, actually, I didn't see my mom and 00:13:32.099 --> 00:13:35.895 dad until after, until I had the, I can't remember. I honestly, I don't 00:13:35.928 --> 00:13:39.496 think I saw them until I had the baby and then mom came out and stayed for 00:13:39.529 --> 00:13:44.596 two weeks. That's nice. Yeah. But yeah. Isn't that weird? So she don't, 00:13:44.629 --> 00:13:47.346 she didn't see me pregnant 00:13:47.379 --> 00:13:52.356 that time. Um So I went to the, to the doctors and it was, you know, like 00:13:52.389 --> 00:13:56.956 after my due date. So it was the 16th and I just thought I was going in 00:13:56.989 --> 00:14:00.436 for a checkup and she said, I think you're ready to have this baby. I 00:14:00.469 --> 00:14:03.635 didn't think I was ready to have the baby, but we lived 30 minutes away 00:14:03.668 --> 00:14:06.446 from the doctor. So she said she wanted to do an X ray to see what 00:14:06.479 --> 00:14:11.086 position the baby was in. And now I think she did an X ray on me and the 00:14:11.119 --> 00:14:17.047 baby. But um they did and she was um what they called a frog breach. So 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:21.125 her, you know, her legs were split and you know, she was breached. She 00:14:21.158 --> 00:14:25.826 said there's no way we can deliver her in that position. Let's do ac 00:14:25.859 --> 00:14:33.515 section tonight. And I was pretty upset. Um because, oh, this is the 00:14:33.548 --> 00:14:37.667 seventies and I've been reading books like Grantly Dick Reed, who was one 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:44.275 of the first, um you know, promoters of natural childbirth. And I really, 00:14:44.308 --> 00:14:48.775 really wanted to do it naturally. We did take some Lamaze classes when we 00:14:48.808 --> 00:14:56.116 got back to the States and I was very excited about this experience and I 00:14:56.149 --> 00:15:01.116 was very upset because I didn't feel like I was ready to have a baby. And 00:15:01.149 --> 00:15:06.037 by the time Bob got to the hospital and um we got ready to do the C 00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:09.816 section. I still didn't feel like I was ready to have a baby and I felt 00:15:09.849 --> 00:15:12.866 like I was kind of getting robbed of some experience that I'd been 00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:18.936 psyching myself for, for nine months. Um It was, it, it was a hospital and 00:15:18.969 --> 00:15:25.657 s Southern Chicago, Northern Indiana and it was Bob was the first, of 00:15:25.690 --> 00:15:30.096 course, they gave me a general anesthetic, which is amazing. Um My sister 00:15:30.129 --> 00:15:35.547 in California who'd had a baby six weeks prior to me, she'd had ac section 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:41.736 two, she was awake and they gave her a bikini cut for the incision. Well, 00:15:41.769 --> 00:15:46.807 the surgeon who did my C section in another part of the country the same 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:52.856 year gave me a vertical incision, gave me a general anesthetic. However, 00:15:52.889 --> 00:15:55.775 we did make history because Bob was the first father to have ever 00:15:55.808 --> 00:16:03.808 witnessed a Cesarean in that hospital. So they let him watch and a, and I 00:16:04.158 --> 00:16:10.076 don't know what happened because, you know, I was out. So when you came to 00:16:10.109 --> 00:16:14.456 , were you in like recovery? No, they did wake me up in the room. I said I 00:16:14.489 --> 00:16:17.746 did see, you know, they brought, they brought me the baby and I held her 00:16:17.779 --> 00:16:22.177 for a few minutes and then, you know, they whisked her away and, um, and 00:16:22.210 --> 00:16:25.316 she was just this little teeny thing with a lot of dark hair and very, 00:16:25.349 --> 00:16:32.057 very cute. Her weight was £6.13 ounces. So she was little and, um, and I 00:16:32.090 --> 00:16:36.657 was, you know, I hadn't gained a lot of weight. Lauren was a lot bigger. 00:16:36.690 --> 00:16:41.667 Um, and that, that also kind of was the trend as they got older. They were 00:16:41.700 --> 00:16:47.606 about 22 months apart and people, by the time Lauren was two and Danielle 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:52.927 , almost four people used to say, are they twins? And even in high school 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.167 when they look so much different every once in a while, people would say, 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.385 well, why are you twins? No, I don't know. It's funny, you know, nowadays 00:17:00.418 --> 00:17:03.706 I feel like babies tend to be on the large side, you know, and it was more 00:17:03.739 --> 00:17:09.597 common to have smaller size babies. Yeah, my sister had, um, two large 00:17:09.630 --> 00:17:14.887 babies and Lauren was pretty large. Lauren was, 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:20.016 she was almost £9. She was £8.16 ounces or £8.13 ounces, something like 00:17:20.049 --> 00:17:26.647 that. She, she was, she was big. Um ok, so let's stick with the first 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:32.065 story. So yes, so you um did you find when you, because you were given a 00:17:32.098 --> 00:17:35.736 general that you were like weak muscled or could you still have that 00:17:35.769 --> 00:17:41.785 bonding with Danielle? I, you know, again, I felt so ripped off with that 00:17:41.818 --> 00:17:46.426 but I will say and, and people say this over and over again, you, you, 00:17:46.459 --> 00:17:50.467 before you have Children, you focus so much on the experience of, of that 00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:55.236 , of the birth. And um, once you, you're a mother and you have the 00:17:55.269 --> 00:18:00.026 relationship and, and I will say the older you get that all kind of fades 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:07.377 away and you kind of like, it doesn't matter how she came, she was ours 00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:13.186 and I was absolutely gonna nurse this baby and did and she cried pretty 00:18:13.219 --> 00:18:17.867 much nonstop for the first two months. She was colicky. She would, didn't 00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:22.347 want to be, you know, you know, again, this is a world without very much 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:26.016 information. The only support I had was the little La Leche League book 00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:31.416 and I did have someone I could call, but it didn't seem to be, I don't 00:18:31.449 --> 00:18:34.467 know if I was eating foods that she was allergic to. I don't know if I 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:37.597 wasn't making enough milk, but pretty much I nursed her 24 7 whenever she 00:18:37.630 --> 00:18:41.857 wanted it. She slept with us because I, she would fall asleep in my arms 00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:45.186 and the moment I would, she'd be asleep and I'd put her down and then 00:18:45.219 --> 00:18:49.055 she'd startle and wake up and I, you know, I think, well, I, maybe I'd, if 00:18:49.088 --> 00:18:53.676 I'd known about swaddling or maybe it was just be, maybe she was too early. 00:18:53.709 --> 00:19:00.137 Who knows? You know, again, so little information back then. Um, I don't 00:19:00.170 --> 00:19:05.387 know. Did, and was she, did you take her to a pediatrician And were like, 00:19:05.420 --> 00:19:09.946 oh, it's really fussy. And yeah, I can't remember. I do remember trying to 00:19:09.979 --> 00:19:14.397 stop eating certain foods and pretty much, you know, it's so funny. I 00:19:14.430 --> 00:19:21.186 remember mom was there and we were gonna go to the fabric store to because 00:19:21.219 --> 00:19:28.335 um, we were making um, a crib bumper and, and a skirt for the crib and I 00:19:28.368 --> 00:19:34.416 come from a family of seamstresses. So we left Bob and Danielle together 00:19:34.449 --> 00:19:38.127 and we had literally just, and this is the first time I'd been out of the 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:44.305 house. So we got into the fabric store and the woman looked up and she 00:19:44.338 --> 00:19:48.717 said, are you Melissa o'connell? And I said yes. And she said, and handed 00:19:48.750 --> 00:19:52.085 me the phone and I picked up the phone and all I could hear was this baby 00:19:52.118 --> 00:19:56.206 screaming and Bob said, I think you better come home. 00:19:56.239 --> 00:20:02.206 So we did, we went home and I, I finally just kind of just said, ok, I'll 00:20:02.239 --> 00:20:06.926 do what I'll have to do. And I just, I didn't I wasn't, I wasn't depressed. 00:20:06.959 --> 00:20:12.246 Um, I didn't work so I wasn't worried about that. I just took care of the 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.805 baby. I nursed her when she wanted to nurse and I held her and since she 00:20:15.838 --> 00:20:19.756 wouldn't sleep on her own, she slept with us wasn't worried about rolling 00:20:19.789 --> 00:20:24.976 over on her. It was the most natural thing in the world. And suddenly 00:20:25.009 --> 00:20:31.156 about the two month mark, she started smiling, Anne was happy and she was 00:20:31.189 --> 00:20:35.696 fine. As far as the crime I did nurse her for a whole year. I can remember 00:20:35.729 --> 00:20:39.496 on her like around 11 months, I tried starting to feed her foods and she 00:20:39.529 --> 00:20:44.496 really didn't want, it, wouldn't eat it. And, um, on her first birthday, 00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:50.217 we offered her some cake and she didn't want any of that either. So, can 00:20:50.250 --> 00:20:55.686 you hear that? Ok. OK. We're gonna pause until that buzzing stops. Um, can 00:20:55.719 --> 00:20:59.916 you, uh, talk a little bit about maybe the difference between like feeling 00:20:59.949 --> 00:21:03.196 isolated and that in, in France and then coming home and having your 00:21:03.229 --> 00:21:06.436 mother and what that was? Or were you still feeling isolated? Did you have 00:21:06.469 --> 00:21:10.996 girlfriends? Then? I didn't, I didn't feel isolated. I, you know, it was 00:21:11.029 --> 00:21:18.496 just the way it was. Um, I had Bob and, you know, he really was and is 00:21:18.529 --> 00:21:25.226 sorry, he is, he was always my best friend. He's, you know, we just, we, I 00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:30.097 never felt alone. I never felt isolated. It's only in hindsight that you 00:21:30.130 --> 00:21:34.926 realize how much information I didn't have and how much, maybe I was just 00:21:34.959 --> 00:21:38.406 doing it. Like people have been doing it forever. You know, I, without a 00:21:38.439 --> 00:21:42.367 lot of information, um, I thought I was very knowledgeable. I thought I 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.967 was much more knowledgeable than my mother and I'm sure I was because I 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:50.717 was a reader and, and I did have, and I think they're still at Danielle's 00:21:50.750 --> 00:21:56.545 House. The, those original books that I scoured. So, um, and I got those 00:21:56.578 --> 00:22:01.585 all in, in Paris bought them there. How was Bob uh throughout Moon finding 00:22:01.618 --> 00:22:05.266 out that you were going having ac section? And was that hard on him to see 00:22:05.299 --> 00:22:10.565 you go through that or? I don't think so. It was just, you know, he was 00:22:10.598 --> 00:22:14.335 very understanding, he understood why I wanted to do it. But we didn't 00:22:14.368 --> 00:22:19.967 question the, you know, the, the choice that the doctor made. Um, but we 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:26.825 did change things up a little bit when Lauren was came. So, so yeah, we 00:22:26.858 --> 00:22:30.946 can transition to Lauren's birth. Was that planned? Um Yes, Lauren was 00:22:30.979 --> 00:22:38.127 planned. Um So when Danielle was about 13 months old, we said, you know, 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:42.295 if we're gonna, we have this family, let's have another one and I was 00:22:42.328 --> 00:22:45.857 pretty much instantly pregnant. 00:22:45.890 --> 00:22:51.065 So they were 22 months apart and that's when because I got pregnant then I 00:22:51.098 --> 00:22:57.367 had to Wean Danielle and I, I had asthma as a child. And so looking back 00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:02.045 and understanding what had happened when my, when I was about six weeks 00:23:02.078 --> 00:23:08.377 old, I, um, had some problems and eat, you know, I'm not sure if it was 00:23:08.410 --> 00:23:12.166 colic or what. And my mom started nursing me and put me on formula and I 00:23:12.199 --> 00:23:17.825 got asthma very quickly. And as a small child, I was very allergic to a 00:23:17.858 --> 00:23:22.147 lot of different foods and went through, you know, I still have asthma. So 00:23:22.180 --> 00:23:26.906 because of this and that's one of the reasons why I was insistent on 00:23:26.939 --> 00:23:32.166 nursing for at least a year and being as late as I possibly could to, um, 00:23:32.199 --> 00:23:35.266 introduce them to solid foods because I didn't want them to pick up that 00:23:35.299 --> 00:23:42.666 tendency. Um, it worked with Danielle. It didn't work with Lauren. 00:23:42.699 --> 00:23:47.137 So, you found that you were pregnant? Yes. Was the pregnancy the same or 00:23:47.170 --> 00:23:54.736 how is it different? Well, I had a toddler, I had a baby. Um, 00:23:54.769 --> 00:24:02.769 you know, I wasn't getting as much exercise because we had a car and, um, 00:24:03.828 --> 00:24:06.717 I did have a lot of friends who were pregnant at the same time. Now we 00:24:06.750 --> 00:24:12.946 were, I was at a mommy's group. So it, that was really fun to be pre and, 00:24:12.979 --> 00:24:15.815 and my sis, my sister was trying to get pregnant. She didn't get pregnant 00:24:15.848 --> 00:24:20.877 at the same time. But, um, we were still miles away anyway. So it was a, 00:24:20.910 --> 00:24:25.847 again I don't have, well, one of the choices I made. So a lot of the women 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.835 I knew were doing natural childbirth. We were all nursing. It was a, um, 00:24:30.868 --> 00:24:37.196 it was a pretty popular thing to do back then. No one wanted to do 00:24:37.229 --> 00:24:44.196 Cesareans or, um, feed their babies formula. So I decided that I wanted to 00:24:44.229 --> 00:24:49.085 have a natural delivery with this second child. So I found from a friend 00:24:49.118 --> 00:24:55.186 of mine, um, a doctor who specialized in high risk pregnancies, which I 00:24:55.219 --> 00:25:00.967 was since I had already had a section. And, um, so I went to him and he 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:06.805 said, yep, I could do it. I, I got bigger with Lauren but not that much 00:25:06.838 --> 00:25:14.838 bigger. Um, maybe £5 more. So, you know, it was just, we were very 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:21.206 conscientious, more conscientious of what we ate then I think, than 00:25:21.239 --> 00:25:26.597 mothers are today and I don't know if that made it easier for us or she 00:25:26.630 --> 00:25:34.256 was still a big baby. So, um, they had given me a due date of July 12th. 00:25:34.289 --> 00:25:37.325 And so, you know, it's funny, I don't remember a lot about being 00:25:37.358 --> 00:25:41.246 uncomfortable in the pregnancy or anything. I mean, it was just, I felt 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:47.627 great. I always felt really good. So, yeah, Danielle had really good 00:25:47.660 --> 00:25:54.075 pregnancies too. It sounded like you guys have, you know, a genetic gift 00:25:54.108 --> 00:26:02.108 or predisposition to making babies and growing them. Um, ok. So you were 00:26:02.838 --> 00:26:08.107 pregnant, you were planning on delivering natural and, um, did they, were 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:12.065 they monitoring the whole breach situation? Is that something that they 00:26:12.098 --> 00:26:15.426 were concerned about since the first one was breach or I don't, I, I don't 00:26:15.459 --> 00:26:20.217 think they, they thought that that necessarily was gonna happen again. Um 00:26:20.250 --> 00:26:25.555 , and it, I don't, I don't, I wasn't as small as I was with Danielle and I 00:26:25.588 --> 00:26:29.585 wasn't as, you know, my body was a little loosened up. I think so. I never 00:26:29.618 --> 00:26:34.236 felt, uh, she was never breach. Um, at least, you know, I, I guess all 00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:37.196 babies are breached to begin with. She turned fine. You know, I was 00:26:37.229 --> 00:26:41.766 traveling, I was flying ho, I flew home from the first time I flew home 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:48.706 from Paris when I was seven months pregnant. You know. Um, so I don't know 00:26:48.739 --> 00:26:53.847 what kind of stress that puts on the body. It, it could have, who knows. 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:58.035 But anyway, um, so they told me my due date was July 12th, but July 12 00:26:58.068 --> 00:27:01.857 came and went and they said no, you're not ready. And, um, we waited and 00:27:01.890 --> 00:27:06.016 we waited and we waited and, um, I can remember Lawrence really 00:27:06.049 --> 00:27:10.295 specifically because I finally got the, the experience. 00:27:10.328 --> 00:27:14.176 I'm not sure if it was, 00:27:14.209 --> 00:27:22.209 it was what it was. So, um, we had one car and I, uh, you know, of course 00:27:23.848 --> 00:27:26.325 you think you're getting contractions? I was finally starting. Oh, I'm 00:27:26.358 --> 00:27:31.607 really gonna have a baby. I can feel these contractions and, um, I don't 00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.246 remember exactly what came up to it, but I said, I'm, I'm ready. I think 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:41.006 we need to go to the hospital. So, um, we drove Danielle over to the 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.065 friends who were taking care of her and then we drove the 20 minutes 00:27:44.098 --> 00:27:47.617 further to the hospital. This is where the doctor, the hospital that they 00:27:47.650 --> 00:27:53.127 worked out of. And we got there and they, I got in the hospital room, they 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:57.805 examined me and they said to me, they said, honey, you aren't even close, 00:27:57.838 --> 00:28:03.545 you're a long ways off. Go home. So I was very disappointed and we went 00:28:03.578 --> 00:28:07.117 back and we picked up Danielle, we went home. Bob said, ok, I'm gonna go 00:28:07.150 --> 00:28:10.226 do a bid. And I said, ok, I'm gonna go to the grocery store with Danielle 00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:15.916 and I was pushing her down the aisle and she's, you know, 2122 months old. 00:28:15.949 --> 00:28:19.936 And all of a sudden I got this contraction that made me keel over the 00:28:19.969 --> 00:28:25.676 shopping cart. And, um, uh, we went, we walked home because this was just 00:28:25.709 --> 00:28:29.877 down the street from where we lived and Bob had the car and I called, I 00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:33.795 didn't call Bob because we didn't have phones. 00:28:33.828 --> 00:28:39.416 I waited until he got home. And I said, I was, I said, ok, this is really 00:28:39.449 --> 00:28:42.795 it. I don't care what they said we're going back. So by the time we 00:28:42.828 --> 00:28:49.035 dropped Danielle off at the babysitters again, and we got, I got back in 00:28:49.068 --> 00:28:53.756 the car and my water broke and I pretty much was a basket case all the way 00:28:53.789 --> 00:28:57.575 to the hospital. When I got to the hospital, they came out with a gurney 00:28:57.608 --> 00:29:00.746 and put me on it and, and I, and then I, I got out of the car and threw up 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:05.246 everywhere and I, I, you know, of course I said, oh, thank goodness, I 00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:09.276 mean, I'm, I'm almost there, I'm gonna have this baby. And so, I mean, it 00:29:09.309 --> 00:29:14.416 was probably 830 or nine at night and she wasn't born until noon the next 00:29:14.449 --> 00:29:17.516 day. 00:29:17.549 --> 00:29:21.585 And I had also because I insisted on natural childbirth said I did not 00:29:21.618 --> 00:29:28.446 want any drugs. So the only drug I had was a local, um, anesthetic to the 00:29:28.479 --> 00:29:31.295 cervix. 00:29:31.328 --> 00:29:37.236 He didn't do much. It was pretty intense. Um, so, yeah, there was no 00:29:37.269 --> 00:29:40.467 getting around it. I was gonna have the baby this time and, um, but I 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:46.186 wasn't because it had started, you know, so quickly, I guess I, I guess 00:29:46.219 --> 00:29:50.847 sometimes most women over a process of a couple of weeks, they, their body 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:56.097 gets ready for the baby and mine just kind of had to jump start. And so, 00:29:56.130 --> 00:30:00.976 um, basically I was just in that room by myself and, and I, I've teased 00:30:01.009 --> 00:30:03.916 Bob still to this day because he just kept falling asleep, you know, and 00:30:03.949 --> 00:30:08.676 I'm sitting here doing everything I can to, you know, get through the pain 00:30:08.709 --> 00:30:11.357 and get through these contractions and they'd come and check on you every 00:30:11.390 --> 00:30:14.186 once in a while. But, you know, basically you're just parked in room until 00:30:14.219 --> 00:30:19.805 , until you're needed. And did you do your LAMAs and all of that? Yeah. 00:30:19.838 --> 00:30:23.387 What I could remember, you know? Yeah, I didn't take refresher classes. I 00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:27.717 , I think, actually, I really don't remember. Did you, were you on your 00:30:27.750 --> 00:30:30.706 back the whole time or were you walking around? No, I wasn't walking 00:30:30.739 --> 00:30:35.516 around. I was pretty much on my back. Which is so crazy again. I thought 00:30:35.549 --> 00:30:40.137 I'd read a lot but there was a lot. We, you know, I, I still didn't know 00:30:40.170 --> 00:30:44.835 and no one was there to tell me. And, you know, my, um, my niece, Amber is 00:30:44.868 --> 00:30:50.217 a doula and she just moved back to town and, uh, she was born Dan Amelia 00:30:50.250 --> 00:30:53.446 was born in September of the first three grandchildren, Danielle in 00:30:53.479 --> 00:30:57.607 October and Amelia in, um, February. So there are three, are really close 00:30:57.640 --> 00:31:01.055 in age, this first three. But, um, you know, I think, oh, well, I had, had 00:31:01.088 --> 00:31:06.085 someone like Amber, wouldn't that have been great? Um, because men and no 00:31:06.118 --> 00:31:10.387 offense, Bob. But, you know, no matter how much they are your partner and 00:31:10.420 --> 00:31:13.946 all this, they really haven't a clue. You know, there's, and there's no 00:31:13.979 --> 00:31:17.706 way, you know, how can they, how can they understand what it's like or 00:31:17.739 --> 00:31:24.097 what you're going through or what you need? Really? So, you know, um, 00:31:24.130 --> 00:31:28.717 it was a long night. It was very painful. I was pretty worn out. I didn't 00:31:28.750 --> 00:31:35.367 sleep much. Um, and the pain, you know, if I could do it all over again, I 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:39.916 would have had pain medication. So I'm not really great with pain. But, um 00:31:39.949 --> 00:31:43.325 , at some point I guess they're early in the morning, maybe around 10 00:31:43.358 --> 00:31:48.295 o'clock, they said, you know, it looks like, you know, now's the time and 00:31:48.328 --> 00:31:52.206 we went into another, uh, you know, a delivery room, you know, basically 00:31:52.239 --> 00:31:58.656 an operating room and, or look like one And Bob is with me this time and, 00:31:58.689 --> 00:32:03.456 um, I just was having a hard time delivering her and she wasn't coming and 00:32:03.489 --> 00:32:10.117 I was, was very excruciatingly painful and I was exhausted. And, um, 00:32:10.150 --> 00:32:14.467 finally, uh, right around noon. So I've been pushing for a couple of hours. 00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:20.746 Um, the doctor said that, uh, her heart rate was dropping and they needed 00:32:20.779 --> 00:32:28.147 to get her out. And, um, they gave me an extremely long a py, they still 00:32:28.180 --> 00:32:34.335 needed forceps and four people basically pushed on the top of my stomach 00:32:34.368 --> 00:32:41.065 and pushed her out. Um, and when she came out, she was this great big, 00:32:41.098 --> 00:32:47.706 almost a £9 baby. And, uh, but she had inhaled meconium and the doctor, I 00:32:47.739 --> 00:32:53.206 mean, this is, he leaned over that baby and with his own mouth, he sucked 00:32:53.239 --> 00:32:56.467 that meconium and spit it out. 00:32:56.500 --> 00:33:01.075 Can you believe that? 00:33:01.108 --> 00:33:05.476 But other than that, her, um, her score was pretty high other than that. 00:33:05.509 --> 00:33:12.696 And, um, they, you know, I, I remember and they, they also gave her to me 00:33:12.729 --> 00:33:17.736 right away. But I don't, they weren't real big on that yet as far as, you 00:33:17.769 --> 00:33:21.597 know, so I didn't really see her until they brought her to me in my room. 00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:25.756 But at this time they would, they would, um, they would allow her to stay 00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:31.746 in the room with me in a crib in a little bassinet. Um, but I was, I was 00:33:31.779 --> 00:33:36.016 pretty beat up and, um, 00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:39.506 then something really odd happened and that was that her blood sugar 00:33:39.539 --> 00:33:46.877 dropped to zero and she convulsed. And, um, so they gave her a shot of 00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:51.206 glucose and they said, you know, it's probably just the stress and from 00:33:51.239 --> 00:33:56.315 the birth and just keep nursing her and we'll monitor her. And so, um, 00:33:56.348 --> 00:34:01.137 they wanted to keep her in the nursery that night and this, I, I remember 00:34:01.170 --> 00:34:05.647 this specifically because the pediatrician um came in the next morning and 00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:09.017 , and her blood sugar did drop again in the middle of the night in the 00:34:09.050 --> 00:34:12.626 morning. He said that he had watched, stayed with her all night and then, 00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:17.805 um, didn't tell me until, uh about got a bill about two weeks later that 00:34:17.838 --> 00:34:24.717 he charged me. This is in 1982 like $800 to watch my baby all night. 00:34:24.750 --> 00:34:30.186 Um I thought that was kind of funny. Um, but the next morning, she, they, 00:34:30.219 --> 00:34:33.856 they said they were needed to transfer her to the, um Neonatal Center in 00:34:33.889 --> 00:34:40.566 Chicago. So, um, they took her by ambulance to the Neonatal center and it 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:46.425 was, you know, it was, it was, that was pretty, pretty weird and a surreal 00:34:46.458 --> 00:34:51.644 experience to go home and go to the empty house without a baby with our 00:34:51.677 --> 00:34:55.956 daughter and no baby. And, um, they wouldn't, you know, these are also the 00:34:55.989 --> 00:34:58.706 days where you didn't get to stay with your Children in the hospital. So 00:34:58.739 --> 00:35:03.276 we had to, we just, you know, I was pumping breast milk and taking it into 00:35:03.309 --> 00:35:07.086 them. And of course, in her, I was wanting just to do everything naturally 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:12.635 and she was in there for about five days. And in this Nick U unit, there 00:35:12.668 --> 00:35:16.336 were these little teeny babies, you know, like 00:35:16.369 --> 00:35:19.925 as big as your hands and then there's this great big healthy baby and 00:35:19.958 --> 00:35:23.267 pretty much they monitor and then they did all these tests and they said 00:35:23.300 --> 00:35:26.885 she had her adrenal gland was bruised but she was fine and I think they 00:35:26.918 --> 00:35:30.845 finally let her come home. 00:35:30.878 --> 00:35:35.876 Were you like really stressed out about that? And was it? Yes, it was very 00:35:35.909 --> 00:35:40.155 traumatic. It was traumatic emotionally again because, you know, I wanted 00:35:40.188 --> 00:35:45.106 to have the baby with me and um and I was afraid, you know, what was wrong 00:35:45.139 --> 00:35:50.885 with her. And um and we were also planning to move back to California and 00:35:50.918 --> 00:35:56.026 we were already a month delayed because we thought she would be born. So 00:35:56.059 --> 00:36:00.577 my mom flew out again and uh she was, she came out, she was there before 00:36:00.610 --> 00:36:05.856 we brought Lauren home and two weeks later we moved to California. Bill 00:36:05.889 --> 00:36:10.356 Horn was a, you know, a really, you know, big baby and she didn't have the 00:36:10.389 --> 00:36:15.896 prop, she slept well and, you know, nursed fi I nursed her successfully. 00:36:15.929 --> 00:36:19.546 So I guess the things I did really, I, I was able to successfully nurse 00:36:19.579 --> 00:36:25.327 both of them, which is actually looking back that way if I had to say, 00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:29.967 could I have that perfect delivery or could I have had the experience of 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:34.345 nursing my daughters? Um, I got the one that I think was the most 00:36:34.378 --> 00:36:37.635 important. 00:36:37.668 --> 00:36:42.566 Um So, ok, I'm gonna ask you a couple. So one is obviously I've forgotten 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:48.635 a lot of the, a lot of stuff. It's a great story. Um, ok, so if you could 00:36:48.668 --> 00:36:53.916 like kind of, um think about summarizing your experience somehow, like 00:36:53.949 --> 00:36:58.606 with a word or a phrasing of words, both of them together or separately. 00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.655 It's your call. I think they're interesting stories because they're like 00:37:02.688 --> 00:37:05.606 two sides of a coin, you know, that the way that you've experienced them, 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:11.905 I kind of see them as a bridge, you know, or being together, 00:37:11.938 --> 00:37:17.626 you know, I, I was never one who thought about having Children as a 00:37:17.659 --> 00:37:21.595 teenager. I babysat a couple times, um, loved to play dolls when I was 00:37:21.628 --> 00:37:24.396 little, but still it wasn't like I couldn't wait to get married and have 00:37:24.429 --> 00:37:32.429 Children that really it wasn't, it just kind of happened to me and, um, 00:37:32.878 --> 00:37:37.376 but I think that the experience of having both those, those Children, uh, 00:37:37.409 --> 00:37:43.376 it's just fulfilling, um, you know, I honestly, I, 00:37:43.409 --> 00:37:47.296 I can't think of anything that I would rather be known for in this world 00:37:47.329 --> 00:37:52.925 than to have, you know, raise two citizens of the world who are, you know 00:37:52.958 --> 00:37:56.856 , intelligent kind, loving, contributing 00:37:56.889 --> 00:38:02.506 that, that they're, um, you know, uh, a positive influence on the world, 00:38:02.539 --> 00:38:07.146 which I think my daughters are. So, if that's all I've ever done in my 00:38:07.179 --> 00:38:14.756 life, ok. 00:38:14.789 --> 00:38:19.445 They are, they're amazing. They're amazing women. Not sure why. That's um 00:38:19.478 --> 00:38:22.577 emotional. 00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:28.675 I, I can understand why. I mean, I like, um just going to the graduation 00:38:28.708 --> 00:38:32.467 ceremonies and I see kids graduate and I think I can't imagine seeing my 00:38:32.500 --> 00:38:35.477 son up there and I get a little emotional. He's not, he's four, you know, 00:38:35.510 --> 00:38:40.066 I can't even imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Something about seeing them become who 00:38:40.099 --> 00:38:45.236 they are and have them be good people. It's important. Yeah. Um OK. And 00:38:45.269 --> 00:38:48.956 the funny thing is the next question I was gonna ask you is what is it 00:38:48.989 --> 00:38:54.296 like now? You know, seeing them kind of go through these stages of life, 00:38:54.329 --> 00:38:59.717 right? Like Danielle had got, had these kids and, and more in, in this new 00:38:59.750 --> 00:39:04.756 marriage and thinking about Children, like, what is that experience for 00:39:04.789 --> 00:39:11.336 you? I have always been one who rejoices with every year. 00:39:11.369 --> 00:39:16.675 I never was sad when they left home. They both, you know, I was kind of, 00:39:16.708 --> 00:39:19.146 when I was a little girl, I knew that I would go off to college when I 00:39:19.179 --> 00:39:23.345 graduated from high school. It was just an expectation. And my daughters 00:39:23.378 --> 00:39:28.486 did too. And I, I always kind of scratch my head with these mothers who 00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.385 are so sad to lose their Children. And I never really felt that way. I was 00:39:32.418 --> 00:39:36.376 excited for them and I was excited for me because, you know, a new era for 00:39:36.409 --> 00:39:41.787 me. And honestly, I have to say, you know, now they've, you know, they're 00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:46.477 in their thirties and I still feel the same way. There's life is a journey 00:39:46.510 --> 00:39:50.356 and it just gets better, you know, great memories. Interesting to think 00:39:50.389 --> 00:39:54.997 back on those, those birthing experiences. It was just a little girl and, 00:39:55.030 --> 00:40:00.626 um, you know, all these, these experiences that we have, they just, you 00:40:00.659 --> 00:40:06.396 know, frame your, your, your, the way you look at life. And, um, you know 00:40:06.429 --> 00:40:11.675 , I've been so fortunate to be married to Bob still and, and have such a 00:40:11.708 --> 00:40:16.727 great relationship. So, um I, my relationship with Lauren and Danielle has 00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:21.876 just gotten stronger and better. Um It was hard for me, you know, and I've 00:40:21.909 --> 00:40:27.445 been with Danielle for all the verse and, and it was funny because I, it 00:40:27.478 --> 00:40:30.666 was something I didn't have my mom with me and of course she wouldn't have 00:40:30.699 --> 00:40:34.977 been able to be with me anyway. I was lucky Bob could. But, um, when 00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:40.925 Danielle had the first, I, uh, didn't, wasn't really part of the birth 00:40:40.958 --> 00:40:46.095 until she had to go to the hospital and then we went and, um, and then, 00:40:46.128 --> 00:40:49.486 but with the other two, I was in the delivery room with her husband for 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:53.787 both of the Children. And what an honor. You know, it's kind of full 00:40:53.820 --> 00:41:01.456 circle and, um, you know, to see Lauren so happy with Jay, I just, 00:41:01.489 --> 00:41:05.827 you know, I feel like they have something like what Bob and I have, which 00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:10.807 is something truly lasting. And, um, I think she's a better woman because 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.416 of Jay and hopefully he's a better man because of Lauren. But, uh, I, I 00:41:15.449 --> 00:41:22.095 mean, yeah, it must be really, um, wonderful too when Danielle was telling 00:41:22.128 --> 00:41:26.106 her story that she, when she imagined having Children that she really 00:41:26.139 --> 00:41:29.896 wanted to have two girls that were about the same age gap between her and 00:41:29.929 --> 00:41:33.146 her sister because of that relationship she has with her sister. And I 00:41:33.179 --> 00:41:37.506 think that's really a testament to like your relationship with them that, 00:41:37.539 --> 00:41:43.086 that she wants to recreate her childhood basically, you know. Yeah, that 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:46.756 says something. Well, I had an older sister but she was three years older 00:41:46.789 --> 00:41:51.026 and we're very, very close now but we weren't really close, you know, 00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:56.316 sometimes three years is a lot. And, um, but my very close friend in high 00:41:56.349 --> 00:41:59.506 school, her sister was only two years older. And we even socialized 00:41:59.539 --> 00:42:04.217 together. So I kind of really definitely on purpose, wanted them close 00:42:04.250 --> 00:42:08.086 like that and, and I do, I see that with Quinn and Casey too. I think that 00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:13.727 they'll have that same experience. It's nice to have siblings. 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:18.336 OK. Is there anything else that you forgot to say that? Maybe you wanna 00:42:18.369 --> 00:42:25.356 add? 00:42:25.389 --> 00:42:31.046 You know, it's funny because I think of, you know, all these um questions 00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:35.635 about the hospital in the room and the family present, 00:42:35.668 --> 00:42:41.126 it was so different back then. So different and changes were just starting 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:45.885 to come. Like I, as I said, Michelle had that c section with a scar that 00:42:45.918 --> 00:42:50.986 wouldn't show I never wore a bikini again. Um which was kind of sad. That 00:42:51.019 --> 00:42:56.506 was always, you know, to be 25 years old and, and have a scar running up 00:42:56.539 --> 00:42:59.925 the middle of your stomach. Um you know, and to not be awake, to 00:42:59.958 --> 00:43:03.865 experience it and then how dumb to not even get some pain meds the second 00:43:03.898 --> 00:43:09.175 time. And you know, it was, it was a, it was an old hospital and you're 00:43:09.208 --> 00:43:13.675 talking about a, everything was stark. There was nothing, no birthing 00:43:13.708 --> 00:43:18.615 rooms, no counseling, nothing. And I guess I'm just really fortunate 00:43:18.648 --> 00:43:23.845 because I didn't ever get depressed or didn't have any challenges with, 00:43:23.878 --> 00:43:28.635 you know, that part of getting through the pregnancy or afterwards. So 00:43:28.668 --> 00:43:34.436 just kind of count my blessings. All I had is a couple of good stories. I 00:43:34.469 --> 00:43:39.925 really can't think of anything else when you were talking about. Um, was 00:43:39.958 --> 00:43:43.365 it Lauren that had the call? No, it was Danielle. I, I was thinking about 00:43:43.398 --> 00:43:47.217 , uh, when my son was a baby and he was crying constantly and you're right 00:43:47.250 --> 00:43:50.186 , you just sort of had this attitude. It's like, yeah, this is like, this 00:43:50.219 --> 00:43:54.037 is my new job. Yeah. Exactly. And this is my job and so I'm just going to 00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:58.195 do it and do it. Well, it's like no other option. The two TV shows I 00:43:58.228 --> 00:44:02.396 remember and I'm, I've never been a TV watcher, but I probably watch more 00:44:02.429 --> 00:44:05.655 TV in the first two months of Danielle's life than I ever have in my life. 00:44:05.688 --> 00:44:12.807 But, um, Tom Hanks was in a sitcom called Bosom Buddies and I would watch 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:18.086 that and then Julia Child, and I still make a couple of the recipes that 00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:25.195 she did on the TV when I was nursing. Danielle. 00:44:25.228 --> 00:44:31.467 Yeah, I just held that child. She turned out ok. It worked clearly. It 00:44:31.500 --> 00:44:35.936 worked. All right. Anything else? All right. I think we're gonna end there 00:44:35.969 --> 00:44:37.969 then.