WEBVTT 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:04.359 Remind me to sit up straight. I usually get done. 00:00:08.489 --> 00:00:11.636 Ok. 00:00:11.669 --> 00:00:18.997 Where are we today? Is Tuesday, April 24th, 2012. 00:00:19.030 --> 00:00:23.035 We're doing an interview for the Arizona State University Retirees 00:00:23.068 --> 00:00:28.157 Association video History project and are located today at the community 00:00:28.190 --> 00:00:33.746 service building on Curry Road in Tempe. I am David Shots, professor 00:00:33.779 --> 00:00:41.557 emeritus technical sports staff. Today is uh we're down to Linda Van Sky 00:00:41.590 --> 00:00:47.256 camera person and chair of the video history project. Also in attendance 00:00:47.289 --> 00:00:50.385 is Darryl Sh 00:00:50.418 --> 00:00:57.726 um Barbara, would you please introduce yourself, giving your name, your 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:05.206 years of service at a SU and your position when you left? Sure. Do you 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:09.156 want all of my names, David, 00:01:09.189 --> 00:01:13.977 whatever you're comfortable with? Well, my maiden name is Barbara Jean 00:01:14.010 --> 00:01:19.135 Bradford. I'm a direct descendant of Governor William Bradford of Plymouth 00:01:19.168 --> 00:01:27.168 colony and my, my history includes three marriages. So my full name is 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:37.319 Barbara Jean Bradford Bowling, Powell, Ebo. I'm difficult. Ok. Thank you. 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:44.805 And your uh position at a su when you retired. Well, I actually retired 00:01:44.838 --> 00:01:51.286 two times. The first time was June 30th of 2006. That was from Information 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:57.816 Technology and my title then was probably the longest title on campus. It 00:01:57.849 --> 00:02:05.849 was director of it, Facilities and Resources Administration. I did not 00:02:06.260 --> 00:02:11.547 invent that title. It was invented for me. What it basically meant was 00:02:11.580 --> 00:02:17.896 that I was the business manager for Information technology and the 00:02:17.929 --> 00:02:25.017 facilities manager of the computing commons. And the space occupied by 00:02:25.050 --> 00:02:31.025 Darrell's telephone services group in the first floor of Old Main. Then 00:02:31.058 --> 00:02:36.797 the second time I retired was June 30th of 2008. 00:02:36.830 --> 00:02:44.525 And that was uh in economic affairs. I was a program coordinator. I 00:02:44.558 --> 00:02:51.995 handled all of the business functions of economic affairs and I also 00:02:52.028 --> 00:02:56.696 operationalized Sky. 00:02:56.729 --> 00:03:02.886 OK? You seem to have brought quite a few talents with you to a su so let's 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:10.487 uh go back to your history first of all. Uh when and where were you born? 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:14.995 Well, I was born in Southern Illinois. I really wanna be a southern girl. 00:03:15.028 --> 00:03:19.225 So I always emphasize that I was born in Southern Illinois, a town of 00:03:19.258 --> 00:03:26.207 about 30,000 called Edwardsville. It's very close to Saint Louis, Missouri. 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:31.427 Um And my brothers and I were all born there. My parents came from 00:03:31.460 --> 00:03:38.636 central Illinois, very small towns. Um The, the largest town nearby is 00:03:38.669 --> 00:03:45.596 Macomb, but they came from little towns with a population of 506 100 each. 00:03:45.629 --> 00:03:52.376 And my dad um had started his education at the University of Illinois, 00:03:52.409 --> 00:03:58.547 but World War Two broke out. So he interrupted his education to enlist in 00:03:58.580 --> 00:04:06.580 the army. And then when he completed his mission, he, he served in both 00:04:06.659 --> 00:04:12.475 Europe and the Philippines. He came home and he finished his degree at 00:04:12.508 --> 00:04:20.508 University of Illinois and met my mom and they married June 1st, 1947. 00:04:21.718 --> 00:04:27.226 So I was born November 1st 1950 00:04:27.259 --> 00:04:33.894 dad had just begun his 40 year career with shell oil company. He, that's 00:04:33.927 --> 00:04:39.875 the only company he ever worked for. It's very unusual in today's society 00:04:39.908 --> 00:04:45.666 for anyone to do that. But his whole career was with shell oil. So being 00:04:45.699 --> 00:04:52.937 born in 1950 I was the quintessential baby boomer. 00:04:52.970 --> 00:04:58.705 And you know, right there at the, at the early phase of it, my youngest 00:04:58.738 --> 00:05:05.776 younger brother uh was born in 57 and the other brothers in between in 54. 00:05:05.809 --> 00:05:11.656 So we're all boomers, but I'm more a boomer than they are. So we were 00:05:11.689 --> 00:05:19.689 Barbara Bet and Bruce Bradford the three Bs. And uh because we were with 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:26.526 shell oil, we got moved around a lot. Shell families were a lot like army 00:05:26.559 --> 00:05:32.317 brats. You expected to be transferred at some point. Dad started his 00:05:32.350 --> 00:05:37.745 career at the Wood River refinery. He was a chemical engineer, catalytic 00:05:37.778 --> 00:05:43.697 cracking was his specialty. And we lived in Edwardsville until I was 12 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:48.127 and that was the first move we made, he got sent to head office in New 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:53.317 York. So we lived in Connecticut. We lived there for three years. Then he 00:05:53.350 --> 00:06:01.350 got sent to the Norco refinery outside of New Orleans. And, um, so I 00:06:02.059 --> 00:06:07.895 started going to a non denominational private school there. The public 00:06:07.928 --> 00:06:13.276 schools really are poor in New Orleans because they have no property taxes 00:06:13.309 --> 00:06:21.127 to support them. And, um, then when I began college at Tulane University, 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:26.356 I attended Newcomb College of the Women's College of Tulane University. 00:06:26.389 --> 00:06:30.507 They like to call it the Harvard of the South, 00:06:30.540 --> 00:06:36.086 which may or may not be true. But anyway, uh, as I began my college career 00:06:36.119 --> 00:06:41.926 there, uh dad was transferred back to head office and I was thrilled 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:49.959 because I got to stay in the town. I loved that, that I adopted as my 00:06:50.100 --> 00:06:56.377 hometown and my whole family. I just enjoyed very much waving goodbye to 00:06:56.410 --> 00:07:02.856 my brothers. And this was at what age that they left and you were, they? 00:07:02.889 --> 00:07:08.197 Well, I, yeah, I lived in a dorm all four years. I graduated from Country 00:07:08.230 --> 00:07:15.825 Day in 68 and started then the following fall at, uh New, no, wait, you 00:07:15.858 --> 00:07:19.606 were in a dorm at Country Day? No, no, no, no, no. I lived at home at 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:25.906 Country Day when I began my career at Newcomb college career. I lived in 00:07:25.939 --> 00:07:31.197 the dorm and I lived in the dorm all four years till I graduated in May of 00:07:31.230 --> 00:07:39.230 72. And, uh, I, I just wanna comment that the fact that we moved often. 00:07:40.369 --> 00:07:46.236 Well, a lot of people think that's very disruptive to kids. I found it. 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:52.645 Otherwise, what it taught me was to be adaptable and how to meet people. 00:07:52.678 --> 00:07:59.217 Uh, now it could be very hard for a kid who was basically painfully shy, 00:07:59.250 --> 00:08:05.116 but I wasn't painfully shy. So there was only a little period in 00:08:05.149 --> 00:08:09.937 Connecticut the first time when my little brothers were my best friends 00:08:09.970 --> 00:08:14.645 for, you know, a few months, those kids were a little standoffish, but it 00:08:14.678 --> 00:08:19.236 was the opposite. When I got to New Orleans, they, they all wanted to meet 00:08:19.269 --> 00:08:24.726 the new girl, the Yankee. They called me a Yankee, but they still were 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:28.916 very friendly and they liked me going back to your grade school in 00:08:28.949 --> 00:08:36.949 Illinois. Um, any uh interest there, uh, music or she was 00:08:37.869 --> 00:08:42.914 bless you. Thank you, stifled it. Any uh interest there in uh the 00:08:42.947 --> 00:08:48.586 elementary school music or art or like that. Yeah. Well, first of all, 00:08:48.619 --> 00:08:53.184 academically, I liked everything. I always liked everything I liked math. 00:08:53.217 --> 00:08:59.395 I liked English and writing. I loved handwriting. So that, that kind of 00:08:59.428 --> 00:09:05.226 was an early indication of my interest in art. I started piano lessons 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:10.787 when I was six and had the same teacher in Illinois till we left when I 00:09:10.820 --> 00:09:17.025 was 12. And then once we moved to Connecticut lo and behold, right down 00:09:17.058 --> 00:09:24.287 the street on our block was this wonderful lady Mrs Swenson who was a 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:30.895 Juilliard graduate and she had a 9 ft Steinway in her living room with 00:09:30.928 --> 00:09:38.836 another grand piano sitting right next to it. Um, that uh enabled students 00:09:38.869 --> 00:09:46.217 who had comparable abilities to play two piano duets versus four hands on 00:09:46.250 --> 00:09:54.145 one piano. But all through grade school, I um I loved art. I in uh girl 00:09:54.178 --> 00:09:58.576 scouts, I was in girl brownies and girl scouts. And if you look at my 00:09:58.609 --> 00:10:06.609 badges, it's, it's painting, it's needle point, it's dress making, it's um 00:10:08.058 --> 00:10:13.407 crafts. I, I always enjoyed all, all of that kind of stuff. So there was 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:20.736 always a lot going on my whole life between music and art. My mom was a 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:27.826 self taught artist. My parents both sang in church. My mom was a wonderful 00:10:27.859 --> 00:10:33.515 pianist. She was an organist at church. She was the organist for Eastern 00:10:33.548 --> 00:10:39.576 Star. So I had a lot of there, there was just a lot of music background in 00:10:39.609 --> 00:10:47.609 our family. OK. And the Country Day school in Louisiana, uh any special 00:10:47.729 --> 00:10:53.005 interest show up there or you're exposed to things that were quite 00:10:53.038 --> 00:10:59.236 different. Well, Country Day was quite a unique experience. It's a, um, 00:10:59.269 --> 00:11:07.269 private school that was founded by, um, we called her grandma Stern. Mrs 00:11:08.070 --> 00:11:12.515 Stern was actually, um 00:11:12.548 --> 00:11:18.875 from the Sears Roebuck family very well to do. And the home that they 00:11:18.908 --> 00:11:25.576 built in mere Louisiana is open for view these days, it's Long View 00:11:25.609 --> 00:11:31.686 gardens. And so when they built their home in me, they wanted a school for 00:11:31.719 --> 00:11:37.596 their kids nearby. So they founded Country Day in the twenties, I believe 00:11:37.629 --> 00:11:42.677 it was. And there are Country Day schools all over the US. But each one is 00:11:42.710 --> 00:11:50.710 stand alone, they have a loose association. So Country Day is K through 12. 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:57.946 40 kids per grade, 20 boys and 20 girls. And most of the kids that go 00:11:57.979 --> 00:12:04.407 there are, they call them lifers because they've been there. Their whole 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:09.956 education K through 12. I showed up at the very beginning of 10th grade 00:12:09.989 --> 00:12:15.936 and as I say, they were, they just bowled me over. They were so friendly, 00:12:15.969 --> 00:12:21.135 but I, I never would have gone to a school like that if we'd lived 00:12:21.168 --> 00:12:28.025 anywhere other than New Orleans. But it was a fabulous opportunity because 00:12:28.058 --> 00:12:33.375 not only were they, uh, the academics were very good. I had to be tested 00:12:33.408 --> 00:12:38.616 to get in there, et cetera. And I did just fine on that. But they had a 00:12:38.649 --> 00:12:42.467 wealth of, um, 00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:49.946 uh, extra curricular things like the art program was fantastic. The music 00:12:49.979 --> 00:12:55.217 program was fantastic. Well, because I just left this teacher, Mrs Swenson 00:12:55.250 --> 00:13:01.196 who I loved in Connecticut. I just dove right into the music program at 00:13:01.229 --> 00:13:07.385 Country Day. Interestingly, I never took a single art class there, which I 00:13:07.418 --> 00:13:12.765 certainly should have done. But I just dove into the music and we had a 00:13:12.798 --> 00:13:20.255 chorus and I was in the chorus and my junior year I had the lead, the 00:13:20.288 --> 00:13:26.736 female lead. It was, it was pretty cute. It was, uh, Romeo and Juliet 00:13:26.769 --> 00:13:33.736 story set in the Appalachian Mountains. And my, my character was named 00:13:33.769 --> 00:13:38.557 Lucy, I still have the score for the whole thing. You wouldn't recognize a 00:13:38.590 --> 00:13:44.246 single song in it. But I was Lucy. And then the next year, my senior year 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:49.316 , they, they like to make sure that everybody got a chance to have the 00:13:49.349 --> 00:13:55.826 lead roles. We did Oklahoma the next year my mom and I made all the 00:13:55.859 --> 00:14:02.667 costumes for the whole cast because we were the seamstresses. And uh that 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:07.476 year they type cast me as uh giggling, 00:14:07.509 --> 00:14:12.986 you know, I don't know why they gave me that part, but they did. 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:18.015 And then I was also the uh the accompanist for the middle school, the 00:14:18.048 --> 00:14:23.096 junior high age kids. They did. You're a good man, Charlie Brown. So when 00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:27.157 they did that performance, I played the whole score for that. So I 00:14:27.190 --> 00:14:34.047 continued playing piano the whole time. Ok. So on the new college. And uh 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:38.787 what happened there? Well, I get to new and I think I'm gonna continue my 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:45.596 , my music as well as the academics. And I tried out for the Newcomb a 00:14:45.629 --> 00:14:49.907 cappella choir which was very competitive and because I'd done so much 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:57.226 singing and I had a good ear. Um, they selected me well, after I was 00:14:57.259 --> 00:14:59.316 selected, 00:14:59.349 --> 00:15:05.356 I just blew it off because I got interested in other things. I, I took my 00:15:05.389 --> 00:15:12.576 first studio art class and it was like, oh my gosh, this is fun. So I 00:15:12.609 --> 00:15:17.667 started out what, in the sciences? Well, dad sent me off to school because 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:23.755 he was a chemical engineer as I was waving goodbye to my family as they 00:15:23.788 --> 00:15:28.717 left me in New Orleans and headed back to Connecticut. Dad said the only 00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:36.217 degree worth getting is a Bachelor of Science. And I said, ok, because in 00:15:36.250 --> 00:15:43.537 , at country day I had taken calculus my senior year and I'd taken science 00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:48.775 classes. I didn't take physics, but I took, um, you know, biology and 00:15:48.808 --> 00:15:55.066 chemistry. And as I say, all the math classes I could take. So I declared 00:15:55.099 --> 00:16:03.099 math as my major. And freshman year I took uh an honors calculus class and 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:08.775 uh I'll tell you, Dave, I got in that class and I thought this is 00:16:08.808 --> 00:16:10.956 Norrisville. 00:16:10.989 --> 00:16:16.765 I don't want to major in math. But at the same time, freshman year, I took 00:16:16.798 --> 00:16:21.787 an economics class. And so I thought, well, it would be cool to be a lady 00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:28.836 Stockbroker because in those days, most of the stockbrokers were men. I, 00:16:28.869 --> 00:16:33.086 you know, I, I can't even think of any lady stockbrokers at that time. So 00:16:33.119 --> 00:16:40.787 I, so I changed right away from math to economics all the while I kept 00:16:40.820 --> 00:16:46.667 taking these studio art classes. And I also took a Shakespeare class. Well 00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:53.696 , I fell in love with Shakespeare. So then I changed my major to English. 00:16:53.729 --> 00:16:58.395 Meanwhile, you know, I, I don't know this is going on but my dad's, you 00:16:58.428 --> 00:17:02.316 know, starting to rub his head and get a little worried and my mom's 00:17:02.349 --> 00:17:06.597 telling me. Oh, you know, don't worry about it, just don't worry about it. 00:17:06.630 --> 00:17:12.226 So I kept taking studio art and, you know, but I was taking everything 00:17:12.259 --> 00:17:17.026 else to fulfill the requirements for a Bachelor's degree and I, I wasn't 00:17:17.059 --> 00:17:24.065 wasting time. Well, then I took art history. Oh, my gosh. Loved art 00:17:24.098 --> 00:17:30.706 history. I'm also taking painting, drawing, ceramics, 00:17:30.739 --> 00:17:35.676 loving it. But, you know, still fulfilling all my requirements. Well, I 00:17:35.709 --> 00:17:43.709 finally did it. I finally changed from math to economics to English to 00:17:44.848 --> 00:17:50.936 art, studio, art and, and even then I couldn't make up my mind between 00:17:50.969 --> 00:17:56.946 painting ceramics and art history. So I just, the, the major I ended up 00:17:56.979 --> 00:18:03.305 with was a B fa and those three things with honors. And I thought my dad 00:18:03.338 --> 00:18:10.035 was just gonna have kittens because it was 100 and 80 degrees from what he 00:18:10.068 --> 00:18:16.305 advised me to do. And mom just said, you know, she'll be fine just, she'll 00:18:16.338 --> 00:18:23.607 be fine. And I graduated four years later. And then, and then, 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:27.585 well, I don't know if you want me to get into the story about I, I'll, 00:18:27.618 --> 00:18:33.597 I'll touch on it because I, I got frustrated with the guy I had dated 00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:40.097 since my senior year of high school. Uh Oddly enough, his name was Kenny 00:18:40.130 --> 00:18:46.597 Hike. We were Barbie and Ken and we dated four years. But sadly, even 00:18:46.630 --> 00:18:54.026 though I thought he was gonna be my fiance, he missed my birthday, 00:18:54.059 --> 00:19:00.246 Christmas. You know, I got senioritis Christmas uh New Year's Eve 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:06.857 Valentine's Day. So I just said, well to hell with him. And I began to 00:19:06.890 --> 00:19:14.890 date my ceramics professor, not a good move. And he left Newcomb College 00:19:15.019 --> 00:19:20.877 to accept a position in the art department, faculty position at UT Austin 00:19:20.910 --> 00:19:26.887 University of Texas at Austin. So I graduated from Newcomb. I got married 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:34.055 three months later, I moved to Austin with husband number one and uh got 00:19:34.088 --> 00:19:39.295 my first job with a Bachelor of fine arts degree. And my very first job 00:19:39.328 --> 00:19:44.996 was in the Electronics Research Center at UT Austin. Uh the director of it 00:19:45.029 --> 00:19:51.776 , executive director was Doctor Irwin, a Dougal, an electrical engineer 00:19:51.809 --> 00:19:57.516 who interviewed me. And uh he really insulted me because one of his 00:19:57.549 --> 00:20:05.456 interview questions was so Mrs Bowling, tell me what does a fine arts 00:20:05.489 --> 00:20:11.717 major know about addition and subtraction. 00:20:11.750 --> 00:20:16.647 I just wanted to wring his neck but I stayed calm. And I said, well, 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:22.736 Doctor Doug, I said I started out as a math major. I did take honors 00:20:22.769 --> 00:20:27.805 calculus in my freshman year. So I got the job and that was the start of 00:20:27.838 --> 00:20:34.996 my uh career at UT Austin, which lasted five years because the marriage 00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:41.335 only lasted five years. But uh I had my daughter Erin during that period. 00:20:41.368 --> 00:20:45.137 She was born in 1974 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:53.170 and I followed future husband number two from Austin to Tempe Arizona 00:20:53.618 --> 00:21:00.526 because he was a master's student at UT Austin in geography. But he 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.436 started out in architectural studies. And what he was interested in was 00:21:06.469 --> 00:21:12.575 the effect of climate on different types of building materials. And he 00:21:12.608 --> 00:21:20.608 wanted to come to a su to get a phd in geography with an emphasis in solar 00:21:22.098 --> 00:21:29.656 energy because the dean of Solar energy in the world was John Ye. He was 00:21:29.689 --> 00:21:35.565 in the College of Architecture. He was the most wonderful man. And so 00:21:35.598 --> 00:21:43.598 that's why we came here in August of August of 1977. 00:21:44.430 --> 00:21:50.706 I thought I had come to hell and brought my little 2.5 year old daughter 00:21:50.739 --> 00:21:58.637 to hell. But uh she was so cute because she told people that uh that she 00:21:58.670 --> 00:22:05.147 came to Arizona so that daddy could study solar injury. 00:22:05.180 --> 00:22:13.180 Oh yeah. So um but uh I got a job, I, I went to human resources. It was 00:22:14.219 --> 00:22:18.226 then called personal personnel. 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:23.456 Pardon me? We had a green sheet, right? Uh The problem at a su in those 00:22:23.489 --> 00:22:31.489 days were personnel and uh physical facilities and, and, and, and shoot 00:22:33.229 --> 00:22:39.575 what's the third one? Purchasing purchasing personnel and physical 00:22:39.608 --> 00:22:46.436 facilities. So I went to personnel, took a typing test. I scored 100 words 00:22:46.469 --> 00:22:53.706 per minute with one error because I used to moonlight and type the and 00:22:53.739 --> 00:22:58.446 dissertations for students and research papers for faculty. And because I 00:22:58.479 --> 00:23:04.746 was really good in English, I would edit as I typed and, and this was not 00:23:04.779 --> 00:23:09.486 word processing on a computer. This is an old fashioned typewriter because 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:16.805 I'm old. But uh I got my first job at a su in the college of architecture 00:23:16.838 --> 00:23:24.838 which suited me just fine because it was art related design, art and it 00:23:26.318 --> 00:23:34.318 was with John Yell. And I very quickly got to know the faculty of the 00:23:35.489 --> 00:23:41.035 college and all, all of its areas, architecture, planning and design, 00:23:41.068 --> 00:23:49.068 which included interior design. And Hugh Burgess hired me as his executive 00:23:49.809 --> 00:23:57.809 assistant to the dean. Uh So I was the business manager. So the hiring 00:23:58.108 --> 00:24:02.686 there. Did you have any trouble with the women's issues? You might say I 00:24:02.719 --> 00:24:07.986 did, I did right off the bat again. I'm, I'm being interviewed by Dean 00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:14.785 Burgess the first time I met the gentleman. And oddly enough, he kept 00:24:14.818 --> 00:24:20.377 asking me questions. I I was Barbara Powell at that point, we got here and 00:24:20.410 --> 00:24:25.726 we went to the Maricopa County Courthouse and had a civil ceremony with 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:31.656 little 2.5 year old Aaron who was fidgeting and touching all the things on 00:24:31.689 --> 00:24:39.166 the, on the desk of the uh Justice of the Peace. But um so he was 00:24:39.199 --> 00:24:45.766 interviewing Barbara Powell. Well, he kept asking questions about um your 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:51.535 husband is working on his phd. In what? And I answered that question and 00:24:51.568 --> 00:24:56.746 then he asked me another question because I mentioned John Ye the interest 00:24:56.779 --> 00:25:01.996 there. So he had another follow on question about Gary Powell. And then he 00:25:02.029 --> 00:25:07.877 asked me a third question about my husband and I finally I didn't throw my 00:25:07.910 --> 00:25:14.176 hands up, but inside me, I did, I just said, well, Dean Burgess, I really 00:25:14.209 --> 00:25:20.055 don't see the relevance of that question, which was kind of an uppity 00:25:20.088 --> 00:25:25.897 thing to say in an interview. But I'd had enough, you know, ask me about 00:25:25.930 --> 00:25:33.930 me and what I can do for you. Interestingly, um, interestingly, uh, the 00:25:34.430 --> 00:25:39.387 person I was replacing her name was Mary. She'd been there for years. She 00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:47.420 told me later that um I did impress him, but he was worried about how long 00:25:47.549 --> 00:25:55.295 I would stay there that if Gary finished his phd, that I would be taken 00:25:55.328 --> 00:26:00.367 off in a heartbeat. And she, she asked him, she says, do you want the 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.766 person who's gonna stay the longest or do you want the best person you can 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:09.436 get now? So I got the job. 00:26:09.469 --> 00:26:14.097 Ok. So just describe a little bit about that job, how it uh prepared you 00:26:14.130 --> 00:26:18.456 maybe for the next job, what you did there? Well, first of all, I had to 00:26:18.489 --> 00:26:25.847 clean up the mess that was left to me by my predecessor. And in 1977 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.285 if you were a new staff person at a su first of all, there was not a 00:26:30.318 --> 00:26:37.367 procedures manual in sight. Nowhere. You had to figure it out on your own. 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:43.045 You had to call the controller's office, you had to call personnel, you 00:26:43.078 --> 00:26:49.295 had to call your accountant. What have you because nobody could tell you, 00:26:49.328 --> 00:26:55.276 I mean, you couldn't refer to anything. Um, it was, it was an interesting 00:26:55.309 --> 00:27:03.309 university compared to UT Austin. A su felt to me like a small school 00:27:03.549 --> 00:27:09.545 because compared to UT, it was smaller and it was in its infancy in many 00:27:09.578 --> 00:27:15.436 ways. Um, but I got to know some wonderful people right away such as 00:27:15.469 --> 00:27:22.196 George Morrell. Every time I walked a purchase order through. He was so 00:27:22.229 --> 00:27:27.406 sweet. He always was in his office number one, he always had the door open. 00:27:27.439 --> 00:27:33.117 He'd see who came in to purchasing and he'd hail you. You know, he'd say 00:27:33.150 --> 00:27:39.166 hi, he'd say come on in, you'd go in, sit down visit with him. He was just 00:27:39.199 --> 00:27:45.117 adorable and, and he really was very encouraging. You know, it didn't 00:27:45.150 --> 00:27:49.696 matter that I was just the brand new uh assistant to the Dean of the 00:27:49.729 --> 00:27:56.535 College of Architecture. He was just wonderful to me. So, and there were a 00:27:56.568 --> 00:28:02.496 lot of nice people like that um in the admin building. And otherwise, 00:28:02.529 --> 00:28:08.186 because I was like the girl Friday for the Dean of Architecture, I went to 00:28:08.219 --> 00:28:13.156 the budget office and, you know, turned in our requests. I had the 00:28:13.189 --> 00:28:17.867 excitement when something was funded to go pick it up, be the first one to 00:28:17.900 --> 00:28:21.897 open the envelope and read it and come running back to the College of 00:28:21.930 --> 00:28:26.746 Architecture and say we got the money to do this and that. And I threw 00:28:26.779 --> 00:28:30.897 myself into the College of Architecture. They had a gallery for crying out 00:28:30.930 --> 00:28:37.186 loud. So that was right up my alley. Uh Jim Rap and I, he was the chair of 00:28:37.219 --> 00:28:43.335 the gallery committee and I volunteered and helped with installations in 00:28:43.368 --> 00:28:50.387 the gallery. That was just right up my alley. I did um re small remo, 00:28:50.420 --> 00:28:57.236 remodeling projects because, you know, Dean Burgess said, well, this is 00:28:57.269 --> 00:29:01.847 what we, what we wanna do with this space and then he just turned it over 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:07.226 to me, which was fine with me because nothing I like better than a project 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:13.107 and it was design related. And so I got to exercise my talents that way. 00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:20.246 So you work with facilities uh project. And Ted Woods was we had a shop in 00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:25.335 the College of Architecture, Ted Woods was the guy that ran the shop. And 00:29:25.368 --> 00:29:32.246 so in architecture, we did a lot of things on our own in the shop. Uh and 00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:38.325 the architecture library, Jane Conroe was our librarian. So I got to know 00:29:38.358 --> 00:29:46.315 Jane and all the faculty. Uh Jeff Cook was, oh 00:29:46.348 --> 00:29:52.545 Palo Soleri was an adjunct faculty member. He would show up for guest 00:29:52.578 --> 00:29:57.357 lectures at times or student critiques. There were a lot of interesting 00:29:57.390 --> 00:30:02.397 people and then there was Dave shots. I remember, I remember Dave shots. 00:30:02.430 --> 00:30:09.967 He was, he was really, really young just like me 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:16.176 just like I was OK. So why would you wanna leave such a great place where 00:30:16.209 --> 00:30:19.206 Dave shots was? 00:30:19.239 --> 00:30:25.276 Well, you know, I I cleaned up all the messes. I did, you know the 00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:32.065 administrative messes. I, I did the remodeling projects. I helped the, um 00:30:32.098 --> 00:30:40.098 the faculty with the promotions and tenure um projects, you know, I, I was 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:46.887 very well versed and, you know, I just kind of felt like the title I had 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:53.647 wasn't, really, didn't fit the job. The executive assistant to the dean 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:58.496 just sounded like I was his secretary, you know, kept his calendar or 00:30:58.529 --> 00:31:03.617 something. Well, it was a lot more than that. So I was working with 00:31:03.650 --> 00:31:07.926 personnel trying to get a reclassification. 00:31:07.959 --> 00:31:14.555 And what I honestly felt was appropriate was the title assistant dean, 00:31:14.588 --> 00:31:20.256 which interestingly, 30 years later, all the colleges changed all the 00:31:20.289 --> 00:31:25.176 people that did what I did, then they changed them all to assistant deans. 00:31:25.209 --> 00:31:30.627 But I think he just thought that, oh my God, this, this woman's out of 00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:37.815 control. So we were kind of doing this about the recla and, and I was very 00:31:37.848 --> 00:31:42.585 frustrated because I didn't have any career path. I didn't wanna be the 00:31:42.618 --> 00:31:46.795 executive assistant to the Dean of Architecture forever. Of course, I 00:31:46.828 --> 00:31:54.828 didn't know I was gonna be at a su for 30 years either. Um So there was uh 00:31:55.039 --> 00:32:02.217 a hiring action that Dean Burgess put me in charge of it was to hire 00:32:02.250 --> 00:32:10.250 together with computing services, a graphic design person, a, a computer 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:16.236 graphic specialist. And that's how I met Lynn Bellamy Lynn was the head of 00:32:16.269 --> 00:32:22.545 computing services and it might have been uh IRM at that point too. I 00:32:22.578 --> 00:32:29.266 think it was. And so he and I worked together on the hire of Jim Howard 00:32:29.299 --> 00:32:34.387 who came to a su from Boeing in Seattle. He was a computer graphic 00:32:34.420 --> 00:32:40.676 specialist and it was a 50 50 split budget wise. So that's how Lynn met me 00:32:40.709 --> 00:32:45.506 at the same time that was going on computing services, had a business 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:52.426 manager that they were less than happy with. So Lynn was actively 00:32:52.459 --> 00:32:58.217 recruiting me for this business manager job in computing services. 00:32:58.250 --> 00:33:04.206 Contrary to what Darryl X told you, it wasn't because Lynn just thought I 00:33:04.239 --> 00:33:06.936 was cute. 00:33:06.969 --> 00:33:14.969 Darryl made that up in a feeble attempt to be funny. But um what I really 00:33:15.969 --> 00:33:22.825 wanted to do was to be Paige Mulholland's assistant. That was the job that 00:33:22.858 --> 00:33:28.545 really attracted me to take her job. No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't Linda 00:33:28.578 --> 00:33:34.196 Van Sky's job. It was another position. Little did I know it was already 00:33:34.229 --> 00:33:39.956 wired for somebody else that, that really disappointed me. I also wanted a 00:33:39.989 --> 00:33:46.996 job in the budget office. Alan Carroll was the head of it then, but I 00:33:47.029 --> 00:33:52.377 think that one was wired too. So, you know, Lynn had this opening and 00:33:52.410 --> 00:34:00.410 computing services. So I, I left the dark side of the campus and I went to 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:05.835 computing services and, and it was a totally different environment. The 00:34:05.868 --> 00:34:12.945 academic side is completely different from the non academic side and I 00:34:12.978 --> 00:34:19.566 very quickly fit, felt very comfortable in computing services. I, I kind 00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:24.526 of started out working for Ken Pollack but Lynn went back to the faculty. 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.517 So Ken stepped up to Lynn's job, which meant Connie stepped up and I 00:34:29.550 --> 00:34:33.506 reported to Connie mcneill 00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:41.296 and then one day, yeah, I started April 1982 working for Connie. And um, 00:34:41.329 --> 00:34:47.675 I'd never touched a computer before. I mean, heck, I was keeping books 00:34:47.708 --> 00:34:52.916 with ledger books. I mean, really the old fashioned way. Ledger books and 00:34:52.949 --> 00:35:00.949 , uh, writing by hand and a calculator. So early on my door was always 00:35:02.889 --> 00:35:07.655 open and it was right next door to Connie's office and there was a door 00:35:07.688 --> 00:35:14.126 between our offices. Well, this big guy with a beard darkens my doorway 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:21.106 and he has this monstrosity piece of equipment in his arms. I didn't know 00:35:21.139 --> 00:35:27.827 then that it was a 32 70 terminal, but it was a 32 70 terminal. He comes 00:35:27.860 --> 00:35:35.227 in, he doesn't say hello. He doesn't say my name is such and such. He just 00:35:35.260 --> 00:35:42.776 barges in. He didn't say, excuse me, he barges in, walks to the corner of 00:35:42.809 --> 00:35:48.345 my office where there's an empty terminal table plops this hunk of junk on 00:35:48.378 --> 00:35:54.845 it. And he looks at me and he says, here, you better learn how to use this 00:35:54.878 --> 00:36:02.546 thing. You're part of a pilot program and walks out, 00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:08.986 I'm like, who the hell is that? And I went right into Connie's office and 00:36:09.019 --> 00:36:12.456 I described what happened and she said, well, what did he look like? I 00:36:12.489 --> 00:36:17.356 said, well, he's a big guy with a beard and she just starts laughing. She 00:36:17.389 --> 00:36:23.166 says, oh, that's Darryl. Oh, that's Darryl. I'm like Darryl. Who? Oh, 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:29.865 that's Darryl Eshbach. He just ignore it. She says, just ignore it. He, 00:36:29.898 --> 00:36:37.898 he's just that way. And, um, so I thought, well, ok, I, I didn't know what 00:36:37.898 --> 00:36:41.467 he did. I mean, I was so new. I didn't even know where he fit on the org 00:36:41.500 --> 00:36:47.396 chart but he, he did not impress me favorably at all. But the pilot 00:36:47.429 --> 00:36:55.429 program I was part of was pros, which was IB MS acronym for professional 00:36:55.769 --> 00:37:02.345 office system. And I quickly learned that it was being implemented top 00:37:02.378 --> 00:37:10.378 down from the president to the VPs to a, a handful of deans and to a 00:37:10.969 --> 00:37:17.077 handful of us in computing services, we were testing this thing and, uh it 00:37:17.110 --> 00:37:21.586 was, it was pretty cool. I mean, I was a good typist so I could type a 00:37:21.619 --> 00:37:25.497 little note really fast, but it was also very frustrating in a lot of ways 00:37:25.530 --> 00:37:31.227 , you know, we didn't have any etiquette on how to do things. We, we had 00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:38.557 to fumble along. But the whole idea was that if we started at the top and 00:37:38.590 --> 00:37:44.577 connected the VPs and the deans, well, then everybody was gonna want it to 00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:50.816 get in the network. So that was Darryl's project. Well, he was part of the 00:37:50.849 --> 00:37:56.356 project. Yes, he was part of the implementation team. Uh, I, of course, 00:37:56.389 --> 00:38:00.017 thought he should be sent to an etiquette school in New Orleans and learn 00:38:00.050 --> 00:38:05.626 how to, um, introduce himself and be polite to charm school. I'd been to 00:38:05.659 --> 00:38:12.827 charm school. Didn't have charm school, that's for sure. Ok. Well, how did 00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:16.115 you, 00:38:16.148 --> 00:38:22.477 how did your job progress there with, uh, Connie? Well, Connie, working 00:38:22.510 --> 00:38:29.135 for a woman was a breath of fresh air. Connie was a fantastic role model 00:38:29.168 --> 00:38:37.168 for me. Fantastic. Connie was smart. She was competent. She, she, 00:38:38.889 --> 00:38:43.577 she could analyze things. We were on the same wavelength, you know, we, we 00:38:43.610 --> 00:38:49.646 both had business heads about us, we could talk about money, we could talk 00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:55.736 about statistics. So you were swimming, both swimming in a man's world. We 00:38:55.769 --> 00:39:00.977 were, and we were doing a damn good job of it too and it was wonderful to 00:39:01.010 --> 00:39:06.456 have an ally and Connie wasn't the only woman in computing services. There 00:39:06.489 --> 00:39:11.546 was Linda Bankson. She was another uh direct report of, there were a lot 00:39:11.579 --> 00:39:16.807 of women. It was a much more mixed environment, certainly more mixed than 00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:19.967 that college of Architecture. 00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:26.956 Thanks. There were a few women over there, but they were in the design 00:39:26.989 --> 00:39:32.175 department. They were the interior design faculty wouldn't, you know, and 00:39:32.208 --> 00:39:37.436 the administrative staff were women. But other than that architecture was 00:39:37.469 --> 00:39:43.997 a man's world. So I, I felt much more comfortable in computing services 00:39:44.030 --> 00:39:50.206 and I felt more valued too. So, your duties, how did they uh change 00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:57.095 increase uh as you progressed. Well, Connie very quickly recognized that I 00:39:57.128 --> 00:40:02.227 could do more than just be the business manager. So one of the things she 00:40:02.260 --> 00:40:08.517 handed to me right off the bat was to create the computing services help 00:40:08.550 --> 00:40:16.115 desk. So that was one of my first projects and in its infancy, it, it 00:40:16.148 --> 00:40:22.695 wasn't even close to what the help desk became, ultimately, I mean, it 00:40:22.728 --> 00:40:28.546 became very technical. Initially, it was to just be a single point of 00:40:28.579 --> 00:40:36.579 contact. The number was 6500 single point of contact that anybody, anybody 00:40:36.909 --> 00:40:43.017 could call for whatever problem they had. And then the people and there 00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:49.217 were only like, we only had three people to answer the phones of the help 00:40:49.250 --> 00:40:54.155 desk. But they could do triage if they could answer the question right off 00:40:54.188 --> 00:40:59.307 the bat. That's fantastic. But they knew the organization of computing 00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:03.986 services well enough that if they couldn't answer the question, they knew 00:41:04.019 --> 00:41:09.175 who to hand it off to. And then she gave me uh the next assignment she 00:41:09.208 --> 00:41:14.046 gave me was to take over data entry 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:20.635 and computer accounts. And again, those were non technical functions of 00:41:20.668 --> 00:41:27.037 computing services. Um Data entry. We, I mean, in the old days, we did it 00:41:27.070 --> 00:41:31.827 the old fashioned way, literally keep, you know, key punch machines. And 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:39.526 then it progressed to something um more sophisticated than key punch um 00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:46.606 computer accounts. Those were very simplistic s systems. Initially, the, 00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:51.467 the biggest job I had in computer accounts was learning from Lynn Bellamy 00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:59.155 and that mean guy Darrel how to do rates. So again, like my first week or 00:41:59.188 --> 00:42:07.077 two in computing services, they come into my office and um have a flow 00:42:07.110 --> 00:42:13.675 chart on a piece of paper of how the whole rates process works. They had a 00:42:13.708 --> 00:42:18.986 program from, I think it was University of Kansas. If I'm not mistaken, 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:24.517 that literally Darrell had to run on punch cards, but I had to gather all 00:42:24.550 --> 00:42:30.405 the information, all the financial and usage information to plug into it 00:42:30.438 --> 00:42:34.537 so that we could spit out rates so that we could charge those nasty 00:42:34.570 --> 00:42:42.570 faculty researchers for their time. Stop. OK. And then, um lastly, Connie 00:42:44.128 --> 00:42:50.345 also gave me responsibility for word processing. It used to be a unit that 00:42:50.378 --> 00:42:56.256 was over in the basement of Matthews. Uh They produced the green sheet but 00:42:56.289 --> 00:43:02.155 then they expanded and, and would do word processing for faculty members, 00:43:02.188 --> 00:43:09.885 they'd bring their papers or whatever uh to them. And we combined that 00:43:09.918 --> 00:43:17.836 group with data entry and we called it data text entry. So Connie took me 00:43:17.869 --> 00:43:23.247 from just being a, a box on the org chart with one responsibility 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:29.155 reporting to her to having my own little section on the on the org chart 00:43:29.188 --> 00:43:36.026 with um the help desk and computer accounts and data text entry. Now, 00:43:36.059 --> 00:43:42.865 Connie was in there for an interim period between uh Lynn Bellamy and Ken 00:43:42.898 --> 00:43:49.666 Pollack. Right. There's this, she's no Ken was on the scene when I came to 00:43:49.699 --> 00:43:56.756 computing services in April of 82 he was in between Connie and Darryl and 00:43:56.789 --> 00:44:04.789 Lynn. But then Lynn went to the faculty. So Ken moved up and um 00:44:05.148 --> 00:44:09.896 Connie and Darryl still reported to Kennett kind of eliminated a layer of 00:44:09.929 --> 00:44:16.816 management. And um but again, I reported to Connie Darrell had his people 00:44:16.849 --> 00:44:24.316 , he had the the tech shop and data comm and the and that constituted the 00:44:24.349 --> 00:44:30.486 early years of telecommunications and Connie had administrative computing 00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:38.436 , academic computing computing operations. My group, I think that was 00:44:38.469 --> 00:44:43.095 basically it. I didn't realize she had taken on academic computers. Yes, 00:44:43.128 --> 00:44:48.267 she did. Yes, she did. Darryl was way out there in the dark side of 00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:53.717 engineering. You were in a SB and he was over in a wing. Yeah, I was in EC 00:44:53.750 --> 00:45:00.856 A. He wasn't in the trailers yet. He was over in ECB near the OPER 00:45:00.889 --> 00:45:06.767 computer operations. Connie. Connie was up on. No, she, we were all on the 00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:13.577 third floor. We had the computing site on the first floor of EC A and 00:45:13.610 --> 00:45:18.986 office space beyond the site that was part of the engineering A wing 00:45:19.019 --> 00:45:25.276 computer room. We had two computer rooms. A wing was the academic 00:45:25.309 --> 00:45:31.135 mainframes. B wing was the administrative mainframes 00:45:31.168 --> 00:45:39.168 and then second floor of EC A had some um academic offices. I don't recall 00:45:39.458 --> 00:45:45.635 what department it was, but we also had a, a lab. We had an early, early 00:45:45.668 --> 00:45:50.706 graphics lab on the second floor, but we didn't own the whole second floor. 00:45:50.739 --> 00:45:57.546 We, we occupied all third floor, all first floor and ECB and Ken Pollack 00:45:57.579 --> 00:46:05.579 was over, he was an admin in the Provost office or reporting the page. Ok. 00:46:07.789 --> 00:46:09.789 Ok. So, all right, continue on the uh job responsibilities and how well 00:46:16.369 --> 00:46:22.195 have changed. Um, I reported to Connie and handled those areas of 00:46:22.228 --> 00:46:29.467 responsibility uh for several years. Um and then came along the Computing 00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:35.037 Commons project. And that's why, how do you see that as developing, who do 00:46:35.070 --> 00:46:43.070 you think triggered that project? Well, it had been an idea on paper for a 00:46:45.389 --> 00:46:53.389 couple of years before it materialized it. I I would say it was on paper 00:46:53.699 --> 00:47:01.699 maybe 86 definitely. By 1987 it was a concept on paper because our 00:47:01.949 --> 00:47:07.896 department was scattered in nine locations on campus. So the initial 00:47:07.929 --> 00:47:15.929 concept was really pragmatic just to bring all the staff of computing 00:47:16.219 --> 00:47:24.017 services and telecom together. At that point, it had nothing to do with a 00:47:24.050 --> 00:47:30.537 student computing site or classrooms or any of the things that eventually 00:47:30.570 --> 00:47:38.570 were realized in the computing comments project. But then page left and 00:47:38.619 --> 00:47:45.865 after several years, Ken left and followed page to right state. When that 00:47:45.898 --> 00:47:53.736 happened, there was this National Search and Lee Ally was hired and I 00:47:53.769 --> 00:47:59.925 think in Darryl's interview, he already explained how Lee uh was the guy 00:47:59.958 --> 00:48:05.195 on the front line with the board of Regents to sell the idea, we called it 00:48:05.228 --> 00:48:08.807 at that time, the computing and network services building. It wasn't 00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:12.865 called the Computing Commons. It was the computing and network services 00:48:12.898 --> 00:48:19.626 building. And Lee did a really good job selling it to the board and it'll 00:48:19.659 --> 00:48:24.146 never happen again. You know, they said, well, you know, if you had more 00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:30.066 money, what would you do with that? And then it got expanded into really 00:48:30.099 --> 00:48:35.526 two projects that came under one roof, bring all of computing services and 00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:42.896 telecom staff together and create a technology hub for the students and 00:48:42.929 --> 00:48:49.845 the faculty of the campus with a big computing site. It ended up that when 00:48:49.878 --> 00:48:57.878 we opened the doors in 93 fall of 93 that site contained 200 workstations 00:48:57.989 --> 00:49:05.385 and classrooms, 10 classrooms. OK. Let's stop here. Um 00:49:05.418 --> 00:49:10.017 The, the regions approved the project, I don't know if the legislature had 00:49:10.050 --> 00:49:15.727 to do it also, they probably did. Uh at that point was this building 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:21.615 committee formed. The building committee was formed as soon as we had the 00:49:21.648 --> 00:49:28.095 funding approved, which was $15.2 million. Jerry Snyder sold the bonds. OK. 00:49:28.128 --> 00:49:34.615 Now you were still doing facility management for computing services. Yes 00:49:34.648 --> 00:49:39.546 , I was, you know, I was doing little, I was doing small remodel projects 00:49:39.579 --> 00:49:45.845 like we, we would expand a space on EC A three, but you had the connection 00:49:45.878 --> 00:49:51.526 with facilities if a project needed initiated. Exactly. I'd worked with 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:56.456 them in architecture and I worked with them in computing to be on the 00:49:56.489 --> 00:50:01.486 committee. Well, I was on the committee by virtue of the fact that uh I 00:50:01.519 --> 00:50:09.519 had functions, computer accounts being one help desk being another. I had 00:50:09.938 --> 00:50:15.916 functions that were directly related to the functions of this new building. 00:50:15.949 --> 00:50:23.949 Who else was on the committee? Well, Darryl and uh Neil Arm and George 00:50:26.550 --> 00:50:33.467 Watson, because Lee Ally had pulled in what was called the micro computer 00:50:33.500 --> 00:50:40.595 resource facility known as Murph for short. So George Watson was on our 00:50:40.628 --> 00:50:44.416 committee. Um, 00:50:44.449 --> 00:50:51.026 um, Bruce Johnson had Bruce left Bruce went to NAU, but I think he was 00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:59.059 still around at that time. And, um, uh, Kim Wilkerson, he was the guy 00:50:59.809 --> 00:51:06.695 responsible for the information center that was the, the unit under Connie 00:51:06.728 --> 00:51:13.626 that helped develop word processing and email and getting all those things 00:51:13.659 --> 00:51:18.918 out. Let me stop here and get Darryl in here.