WEBVTT 00:00:09.140 --> 00:00:11.140 now you went went from A. S. U. Allentown. 00:00:14.339 --> 00:00:18.706 Yes. Ah The 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:23.907 our program our program manager Shell Siegel. 00:00:23.940 --> 00:00:27.607 Um it was 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:35.640 hired to put the station on in Allentown which 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:41.586 it's really important in Allentown despite the fact that on cable you had 00:00:41.619 --> 00:00:49.619 the public station from new york and the public station from ah 00:00:50.140 --> 00:00:53.836 philadelphia. But it was such a parochial place. Oh no no no we've got to 00:00:53.869 --> 00:00:59.957 have our own, it's just money to show up and do it if you don't have it on 00:00:59.990 --> 00:01:04.507 the air and exactly one year you both get fired 00:01:04.540 --> 00:01:12.540 and I took it because I was young and petulant. I'm not young anymore 00:01:13.340 --> 00:01:20.107 and you wouldn't hire me to be the program director after these fabulous 00:01:20.140 --> 00:01:25.007 cask of amontillado Otto's misspell credit 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:31.846 actors, drunken actors in the studio performances out of the sewer after 00:01:31.879 --> 00:01:35.706 all that you hired this stranger. 00:01:35.739 --> 00:01:41.536 So I huffed my way too Allentown and I learned a lot. I had never put a 00:01:41.569 --> 00:01:46.337 station on here from the ground up. Whether we purchased the first pencil 00:01:46.370 --> 00:01:52.766 , leased the first temporary building work with architects to design other 00:01:52.799 --> 00:02:00.406 studios but all of the equipment. I mean I did learn a lot unfortunately 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:06.717 when the learning was over the horrors set in that that snow really wasn't 00:02:06.750 --> 00:02:14.636 fun. And one day I couldn't find my car and the apartment. Super said 00:02:14.669 --> 00:02:18.506 because you're standing on it. 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:22.207 We've had a bit of a drift. 00:02:22.240 --> 00:02:28.487 So these are of the Arizona state 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.906 network. 00:02:31.939 --> 00:02:39.939 Ah The man with the tape network. He was had by now he's head of 00:02:41.069 --> 00:02:43.307 education 00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:50.506 in the Los Angeles station in Los Angeles station is close to going broke 00:02:50.539 --> 00:02:56.307 And of course we've got 12 Union contracts. So how 00:02:56.340 --> 00:03:02.506 how can they let people off and still keep going because everyone 00:03:02.539 --> 00:03:06.606 and tv in that town is a specialist. 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:13.307 You know, people who do eyebrows don't make up ears very regimented union. 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:21.340 So um, so I offered me the job of a program director with the caveat. We 00:03:22.289 --> 00:03:29.106 may not be here by the time you arrive with doctor Jim roper. 00:03:29.139 --> 00:03:32.376 Ah 00:03:32.409 --> 00:03:38.126 And uh we just don't know how this will work out. So you're really taking 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:40.707 a chance. 00:03:40.740 --> 00:03:45.237 It isn't snowing is it? No it never snows here. I'll be there in three 00:03:45.270 --> 00:03:50.297 days left and 00:03:50.330 --> 00:03:55.596 I went to Los Angeles and 00:03:55.629 --> 00:03:59.786 the finances were worse than I thought. We had long meetings. My favorite 00:03:59.819 --> 00:04:07.707 was the one on, we can't afford to have telephones 00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:10.506 and pay the electricity. 00:04:10.539 --> 00:04:16.306 That was a short meeting your Tv station. You're not talk radio. So we 00:04:16.339 --> 00:04:22.377 actually went without phones for a few days while the board phoned around 00:04:22.410 --> 00:04:26.257 and wrote checks or things to. 00:04:26.290 --> 00:04:34.290 And again I had come up from Tv From a one channel town 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:42.197 and I had learned to do everything. Floor manager, direct light run 00:04:42.230 --> 00:04:45.606 cameras, audio 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:51.897 technical directors where I could do it all. And while I didn't have to do 00:04:51.930 --> 00:04:57.666 it all I had to manage it all and I had to figure out how to, we work with 00:04:57.699 --> 00:05:03.596 unions around situations where we couldn't afford full crews and we came 00:05:03.629 --> 00:05:07.106 out of that. 00:05:07.139 --> 00:05:13.507 Do you remember what brought us out of it? I don't really save the place. 00:05:13.540 --> 00:05:21.036 My um, master's paper from the University of Denver called feedback to 00:05:21.069 --> 00:05:23.707 advanced 00:05:23.740 --> 00:05:27.106 and it got a huge ford Foundation 00:05:27.139 --> 00:05:29.707 um, 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:33.007 grant 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:37.476 and when I saw the application many years later, the guy at the Ford 00:05:37.509 --> 00:05:42.967 Foundation had written on it. If they don't pull it off, it'll pull them 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.007 under 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:51.337 and, and feedback for advancement, which you know, is Cancion de la raza. 00:05:51.370 --> 00:05:56.856 Yeah, that got us in trouble, but that's all right. 00:05:56.889 --> 00:06:03.806 We'll talk about that. You're in trouble. It got you in trouble. 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:11.839 Song of the race chuck produced us soap opera around it. I don't know how 00:06:12.139 --> 00:06:19.137 many, there were many said too many. It was produced live the way soap 00:06:19.170 --> 00:06:25.246 opera be produced. Soap opera was a chosen form because that was for all 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:31.096 Latinos. Primetime tv was built around evening soap operas. So it was a 00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:39.067 form that was very familiar and the idea was, they could learn all kinds 00:06:39.100 --> 00:06:42.906 of really good things from us, 00:06:42.939 --> 00:06:50.939 arrogant. Oh yes. But uh, just down the Ford Foundation's alley. Uh, but, 00:06:51.589 --> 00:06:57.647 but they're hardly were any Other than Cesar Romero and two or 3 others 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:05.680 rita Moreno's, they're just weren't Hispanics in the unions 00:07:05.970 --> 00:07:09.976 and acting because to get many of these unions, all you had to have was a 00:07:10.009 --> 00:07:14.106 part. 00:07:14.139 --> 00:07:22.139 So I created um, a little university of Carlos where 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:27.176 we advertised, her kids wanted to be actors. People wanted to be actors. 00:07:27.209 --> 00:07:29.406 Directors 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:35.356 put them through a a little screening process and we hired directors and 00:07:35.389 --> 00:07:42.596 actors to essentially create the actors for the cast. The directors, all 00:07:42.629 --> 00:07:48.527 of this was the part of the grant you didn't benefit from and many of them 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:56.560 are still involved in making film and television. Uh huh. Today, in fact 00:07:58.189 --> 00:08:03.077 one of the directors who came out of that, who would just came out of 00:08:03.110 --> 00:08:07.596 Occidental and never had a job in show business as a life. Today is on the 00:08:07.629 --> 00:08:11.606 board of the directors guild of America. 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:17.906 The president of the directors guild is another one of my evil creations. 00:08:17.939 --> 00:08:21.507 Taylor Hackford 00:08:21.540 --> 00:08:27.277 now tell us about some of the other programs you produced because one of 00:08:27.310 --> 00:08:34.516 them won the first Real Emmy for public broadcasting, the Andersonville 00:08:34.549 --> 00:08:42.047 Trial, Hollywood television theater, the Andersonville Trial. uh 69 I 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:47.817 think I might be a little off on that. Uh, had a great cast, William 00:08:47.850 --> 00:08:50.207 Shatner. 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:58.240 Um the director was George C scott. I was able to get George Because No 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:05.697 one would hire him. He had become a a prominent drunk and it's not that 00:09:05.730 --> 00:09:09.506 Hollywood cared whether you 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:13.967 abused yourself with substances or whatever, but if it costs over time you 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:19.407 were dead, that was where they drew the line 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:21.506 and 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:26.496 and he had gone off the list on Hirable and you had to get back on the 00:09:26.529 --> 00:09:32.356 list, which means you could be hired. You, you had to prove you could do a 00:09:32.389 --> 00:09:37.006 play or a movie or something and not 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:43.307 throw it off budget. And he really wanted this to be good. And and he did 00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:50.596 not want to fall down and ruin his career or disappoint us. And so he 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:55.807 hired a bodyguard who was even bigger than he was, who went around with a 00:09:55.840 --> 00:10:01.547 bag of candy bars. And if George started getting the shakes outward, kind 00:10:01.580 --> 00:10:08.026 of a candy bar and jam in his mouth and he said, you know, at night, he'll 00:10:08.059 --> 00:10:14.256 knock me out if he thinks I'm going for a drink. Well, we we didn't have a 00:10:14.289 --> 00:10:19.207 Betty ford center at the time. 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:23.886 So this was his rehab project and that's how I made all of Hollywood 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:28.817 television theory go, they were all rehab people. All of them, all these 00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:33.687 people you thought were great actors who were dying to work for me. No, 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:40.187 I'm in rehab places, looking for people who look like the park. And of 00:10:40.220 --> 00:10:47.087 course, once they proved they could, they were working again. 00:10:47.120 --> 00:10:54.707 And you know, Shatner was young and very handsome and 00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:59.807 I took one of the standard, one of the, one of the young phds 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:05.317 to make out with her and it's convertible back to the studio and they 00:11:05.350 --> 00:11:12.297 couldn't find him. So somebody tells George that, you know, William may 00:11:12.330 --> 00:11:16.866 not be coming back today. He's really having a good time at the back of 00:11:16.899 --> 00:11:23.327 the studio. He went out grab him out of his convertible, pulling over this 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:30.226 side game a black guy and drug him back in and makeup people did their 00:11:30.259 --> 00:11:36.476 work. And this one the M. E. And it's only been given once. And it was for 00:11:36.509 --> 00:11:42.226 this show for the best single television show produced of that year. It 00:11:42.259 --> 00:11:47.837 was above all other can above drama, all of it. And there you have there 00:11:47.870 --> 00:11:53.307 you have it, Charles Bukowski 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:58.207 documentary produced by Taylor Hackford, 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:05.407 brilliant, brilliant guy. And the film was brilliant. And 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:12.807 But I had 20 or 30 f bombs in it. Of course we broadcast it isn't, you 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:17.407 know, along with a handful of others. And um 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.917 ah 00:12:19.950 --> 00:12:22.896 the sec was notified. 00:12:22.929 --> 00:12:27.797 And uh and there was a hearing which the commission themselves conducted 00:12:27.830 --> 00:12:32.506 the hearing, I saw the film 00:12:32.539 --> 00:12:37.506 and I had a great lawyer and 00:12:37.539 --> 00:12:44.606 and we got off with a kind of don't do it often. Uh finding 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.417 because one it had been underwritten by the government. It was a National 00:12:48.450 --> 00:12:53.307 Endowment for the Art Project 00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:55.957 and it made it complicated to get into. And the other thing is, the 00:12:55.990 --> 00:13:02.207 chairman said, you know, Anybody who is watching this after five minutes 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:10.240 really deserved what they got, let's call it art Art. And and that that 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:15.837 moved on. That was not carried by Channel eight I believe because we would 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:20.787 I would not let an edited version out. You either had to carry the whole 00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:27.407 thing or nothing. And um 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.407 yes, that was 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:34.797 he was the L a poet laureate, 00:13:34.830 --> 00:13:40.207 I had come up with a brilliant idea, I thought 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:45.876 for the the bicentennial 00:13:45.909 --> 00:13:50.587 and there was a competition for funding at the Corporation for Public 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:54.506 Broadcasting. And 00:13:54.539 --> 00:14:02.539 so I had this idea that we would have different Hollywood stars appear for 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:07.886 two minutes and tell you that on this day leading towards the revolution 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.606 in a year, 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:17.407 this was an important point of history. Well, 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:23.317 CPB was very angry, said I was a smart but and that you couldn't treat the 00:14:23.350 --> 00:14:27.787 history of the United States like this and they wouldn't put a nickel in. 00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:33.407 It crushed. I was crushed. 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:40.707 So the producer for Hollywood television theater who had 00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:46.756 had really some very good credits by now comes to me and said, you know, 00:14:46.789 --> 00:14:51.707 could I have permission to take that to CBS? 00:14:51.740 --> 00:14:57.106 You know, I I don't think you're really nuts about this one. 00:14:57.139 --> 00:15:02.396 So I said, yeah, until he takes it to CBS. 00:15:02.429 --> 00:15:05.707 And they had a programming fred Silverman had turned down everything, 00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:10.217 agents and everyone had sent him did not like any of the bicentennial 00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:12.307 ideas 00:15:12.340 --> 00:15:19.327 And he saw this one and let up had to have it. So he hires Friedman away 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:25.707 from me. So I lose my drama producer. 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:31.307 And but they've got to buy the concept the minutes. 00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:33.606 And 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:36.636 so they said, well what do you need? Well we always need money, I'll give 00:15:36.669 --> 00:15:39.106 you some money. 00:15:39.139 --> 00:15:42.187 And then we've got a lot of plays. Mr Friedman bought that will never 00:15:42.220 --> 00:15:44.207 produce. 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:50.126 So if you buy all of those, because we've got $10,000 down on the option 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:55.276 on each one of them And we've got 10 of nobody's ever going to produce 00:15:55.309 --> 00:15:58.006 well by February. 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:03.766 So they took, my producer paid us around 250,000 for the concept, brought 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:09.136 out all of this junk that is piled up and it became a big hit and it won 00:16:09.169 --> 00:16:14.856 an Emmy, thank you. Thank you. The corporation for Public broadcasting 00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:18.106 lost again. 00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:23.976 So I had to hire another producer and I hired norman Lloyd, uh, who had 00:16:24.009 --> 00:16:30.106 worked with Alfred Hitchcock and never shut up about it and is still alive. 00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:34.707 He's 90, just had his 92nd birthday. 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:38.907 He's, you've seen him in the movies, 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:45.697 he get on under Hitchcock skin. And so his Hitchcock cast him as the guy 00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:51.096 who falls off the statue of liberty, the nazi spy 00:16:51.129 --> 00:16:56.996 that was just a big claim to fame. Um, and he was in the Mercury theater 00:16:57.029 --> 00:17:00.307 with Orson Welles. 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:06.726 So I'm a kidney, the head of Hollywood television theater. And and by now 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:12.086 I have absorbed enough Hollywood lore, I have an idea of how a lot of it 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:20.119 works. And I had always loved Bruce jay Friedman's uh, play steam Bath. 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:27.197 Yeah, in which God played by a Puerto Rican 00:17:27.230 --> 00:17:31.486 is running a steam bath and when you die, you just kind of blink and there 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:37.127 you are. You're in the steam bath and at some point you'll either go 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:45.160 through that door heaven or hot door over here and the bath attendant 00:17:46.170 --> 00:17:49.207 decides 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:53.576 God, I really like that and, and the language is a bit much for, for 00:17:53.609 --> 00:17:58.147 television. So I had, I've gone through and changed all of the sexual 00:17:58.180 --> 00:18:01.707 references using 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:06.207 uh, Yiddish vaudevillian, 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.967 you know, Henny youngman speak and it was in my desk at all times. I get 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:17.407 bored. I'd read it again, chuckled and I had taken a an option on it, 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:22.127 which was easy. He didn't think anyone would ever, ever, I want to see 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:28.437 this, He's given up. And so there's that moment, here's the new executive 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:32.927 producer of the Hollywood television theater sitting in front of me and, 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:37.246 and I'm opening the door and I've got my hand on the book, they all do 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:43.566 this, it was really so pleased to have this job. Is there anything is 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.447 there anything that's special to you that you'd like me to do? And they 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:53.607 never ever ask you twice. It's a once a producer thing just like that. 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:59.006 Boom. It's on the desk norman produced this 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.657 and he says, I know that play. He said, I think there's something you need 00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:10.407 , you're very young. I think you should understand that 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:17.897 if any station, but this one plays, it will be fired. I'm ready, are you? 00:19:17.930 --> 00:19:25.930 Oh yes, of course. So off we, off we go And it required a special effect, 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:35.536 which was, which was a lot of fun and that was, somebody has to drink a 50 00:19:35.569 --> 00:19:38.107 gallon cocktail 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:42.607 and so we had to have a special effects company to make a giant cocktail 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:49.306 that empty in seconds pumps, 00:19:49.339 --> 00:19:54.107 you know, outside of the studio is how it was done. 00:19:54.140 --> 00:20:00.226 Um the idea of God being a Puerto Rican, The head of Jerusalem at the head 00:20:00.259 --> 00:20:06.207 of John Birch inside it came to see me about that one, I have a name 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:12.506 and he said you're about to make the biggest fundraiser I've ever had 00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:20.539 and then we had the two gay guys in the bath and they, 00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:24.506 they had a dance, the towel flips 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:27.207 where 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:35.006 they're naked and they're doing this dance and the towel flip covers any 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:40.927 genitalia, any, I personally went through it frame by frame, frame by 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.306 frame, 00:20:43.339 --> 00:20:47.707 but everyone knows what they saw, Everyone thinks they saw something they 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:49.907 didn't. 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:54.147 So that was controversial. Then you had Valerie Perrine who was young and 00:20:54.180 --> 00:20:56.506 gorgeous 00:20:56.539 --> 00:21:02.107 dressed in as little as we could find to dress her in and that makes me 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:08.556 who's, I think really at the peak of his career, fine young young actor 00:21:08.589 --> 00:21:11.407 and 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:17.907 ah the towel flip probably took half a day to shoot 00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.107 but 00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:22.907 it went very well. 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:26.266 PBS refused to put their logo on it, which meant we could not be 00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:30.776 reimbursed by the ford foundation for the show that was the one caveat, 00:21:30.809 --> 00:21:34.006 whatever you make, they have to release 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:41.286 and they had a PVS, your buddy Hartford Gun would not, he was, this will 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:47.006 bring down Oh, all the PBS 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.707 and, 00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:53.986 and I would, I didn't know what to do. I mean, I was the board had a 00:21:54.019 --> 00:22:00.506 meeting and all in. Is there anyone who's not in favor of hiring chuck? 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:07.046 You know, the guy we gave the big bonus to last week and he's going to 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:13.407 sink the place and, 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:17.506 and Caroline Leonetti ahmanson, 00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:21.006 um 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:25.006 very important board member got up 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:29.107 and essentially 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:35.927 just just paid a wonderful tribute to the production and to me and made it 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:40.407 very clear she and her money would leave with 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.197 Well, 00:22:43.230 --> 00:22:49.806 the president president jim said, well, I think we could see this as art. 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:57.226 I've created art again. So I I still have to somehow get this on PBS in 00:22:57.259 --> 00:23:03.907 order to get the money and I think we spent 600,000 on this. And, 00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:06.107 and 00:23:06.140 --> 00:23:10.056 so I called a friend of ours, 00:23:10.089 --> 00:23:16.717 Dick Bowman in in Chicago. This is a station, everyone. 00:23:16.750 --> 00:23:22.117 And they actually had an audience where most stations, we're talking about 00:23:22.150 --> 00:23:25.607 programming too important for audiences. 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:31.786 And Dick said, you know, we'll play it once and y'all will do will pledge 00:23:31.819 --> 00:23:36.306 it. Oh, 00:23:36.339 --> 00:23:41.627 so it pledges in Chicago. It makes a ton of money. Just tons of they can 00:23:41.660 --> 00:23:45.276 we play it again? Yes. Play it until it wears out. I'll say, you know, 00:23:45.309 --> 00:23:49.617 that copy and of course the other stations so sanctimonious will never 00:23:49.650 --> 00:23:55.806 play in mind. What did you say it made? That's bigger than Lawrence. Well 00:23:55.839 --> 00:24:03.839 suddenly PBS still won't carry it, but they will provide it. And uh Donald 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:11.839 Taverner, the president of the Pittsburgh station, refused to run it and 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.907 made some really nasty remarks about it in the Washington post and his 00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:21.607 board fired him for not running for not running it. 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:29.640 I still have a copy of that, I've got a DVD copy that I get out and I look 00:24:29.910 --> 00:24:33.836 at it every once in a while and I think it was better. There was one other 00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:38.707 thing on steam bath. 00:24:38.740 --> 00:24:43.976 All the other officers of this corporation lived out in the san Fernando 00:24:44.009 --> 00:24:51.387 valley or the beach or somewhere loper uh in Pasadena. So any time 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:56.506 anything came up with the fire or the police, 00:24:56.539 --> 00:25:02.306 I was on their list to call 1st because I live closer to the studio then 00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:08.417 the rest of them and they didn't want to deal with those problems. So I 00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:16.450 got called that two or 31 morning Mr Allen, Hollywood precinct calling. 00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:21.107 Yeah, everything's going 00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:28.776 well we've arrested arrested a guy that's Puerto Rican on a pretty serious 00:25:28.809 --> 00:25:33.117 offense. He was jaywalking actually, he was arrested because he was a 00:25:33.150 --> 00:25:41.150 Puerto Rican jaywalk together. Wonderful town. And I said and wow! He says 00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:50.990 he's God mr Allen. And that God only listens to you, 00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:58.687 oh gosh look, I can't straighten this out on the phone, 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:05.627 I'm coming right down. Be careful with Jose. God, Jose. Perez, the actor, 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:12.726 Great broadway actors. So I grab my checkbook and everything else it takes 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:18.546 to bail. There's somebody out and I went down there and they made me sit 00:26:18.579 --> 00:26:26.579 in front of the bars. Now you're telling us, we know who you are and we, 00:26:27.940 --> 00:26:31.707 We respect channel 20, 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:35.707 explain this God thing to me. 00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:43.740 Don't don't, this is how the play goes and he's terrific. And and um I'll 00:26:43.990 --> 00:26:50.066 send you a copy when we're finished or you can come down and watch, we've 00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:56.836 got a dance number. You will love not the towel flip Valerie parade where 00:26:56.869 --> 00:27:03.707 her top explodes. Have you ever complained about that? And they end up 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:08.687 taking Jose later on, you know, out for lunch at some crappy plates that 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:14.887 the cops hang out. I mean the frolic room on Hollywood boulevard? It's the 00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:20.187 cops taking Jose God. And I got and his boss to the frolic room and I'd 00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:25.107 never been in there. I mean, I just really didn't want to be seen in Mhm. 00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:33.140 It's still there too, by the way. So it was, it was terrific television 00:27:33.150 --> 00:27:41.150 as far as I was concerned and and Hartford gun eventually gets fired by 00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:49.187 PBS and they hire a public relations guy who had been at NBC Larry 00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:55.056 Grossman. I never met this guy phone rings one day, Jack, my name's Larry 00:27:55.089 --> 00:28:00.107 Grossman. I'm the president of PBS. I don't even have an office yet. Do 00:28:00.140 --> 00:28:05.407 you still have the rights to that steam bath thing? Yeah, 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:12.847 good. I'm putting in a schedule as a PBS primetime must if you'll let me 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:18.086 if you put the logo on it, you got it, can I call forward for you? Yes, 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:26.119 you can. And then he bought all of my tv tv specials ah which was a unit 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:36.880 outside of channel eight. I put together with the first handheld video 00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:42.647 cameras and by Sony and they just gave us a bunch of to see what you could 00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:49.117 do. So when they took it to the industry they could show the practical 00:28:49.150 --> 00:28:52.607 application. 00:28:52.640 --> 00:29:00.640 Tell us about producing the Cousteau people. I had 13 ah Cousteau Voyages 00:29:05.940 --> 00:29:12.187 which I was in charge of and we had we had won Emmys for those and they 00:29:12.220 --> 00:29:19.457 were very popular and and he was a wonderful person to know and and to 00:29:19.490 --> 00:29:26.006 work with, he was a very smart filmmaker and it would 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:30.546 usually get me a month to six weeks in paris where all the editing was 00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:36.296 done Because he shot at 100-1. Otherwise you shoot, you threw away 99 ft 00:29:36.329 --> 00:29:43.296 for everyone that actually went on the air. Um 00:29:43.329 --> 00:29:45.407 And 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:51.316 Philippe, his his favorite son normally handled all the arrangements, you 00:29:51.349 --> 00:29:57.736 know forgetting calypso ready import with all the film gear and stuff to 00:29:57.769 --> 00:30:04.806 take off. He had been ill. So I was kind of doing it through others and 00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:10.907 and I got a call from Cousteau, he is just angry, He is just mr mild 00:30:10.940 --> 00:30:16.736 mannered is just what the hell have you done? I said, what do you mean? 00:30:16.769 --> 00:30:21.187 And we tried to get the ship ready, Philippe not here, but what have you 00:30:21.220 --> 00:30:26.197 done? I can't go on this voyage. Well, you hardly are ever on them. Anyway. 00:30:26.230 --> 00:30:31.006 We take you in by helicopter. No, but 00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.707 where's my beef? 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:40.107 I don't understand what you're saying. I don't eat this fish crap. I eat 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:43.607 beef. 00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:51.377 Be from California by the way. You know, hand fed, somebody gives 00:30:51.410 --> 00:30:58.306 The Cow one straw at a time and you've stuck me with this, 00:30:58.339 --> 00:31:06.339 You're killing me. Oh God, So wait, well what's a lost day? So you get rid 00:31:07.210 --> 00:31:14.177 of the fish loaded up with red wine and lots of red beef because I 00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:18.306 believed all this crap, he said, I 00:31:18.339 --> 00:31:23.806 just, the executive producer tells me I believe him in terms of some of 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:31.147 the best things I've ever done. Ah and all of this iota issue. I love 00:31:31.180 --> 00:31:36.617 school, I loved going to college, I loved the library, I loved all that. I 00:31:36.650 --> 00:31:42.717 love the ability to sit in on classes. I wasn't registered for. I was a 00:31:42.750 --> 00:31:48.586 real lifetime learner. So I used to go to caltech to see lectures 00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:55.036 occasionally. We had had a former board chairman, um who was the president 00:31:55.069 --> 00:31:59.957 of caltech. And so I went to see 00:31:59.990 --> 00:32:04.647 an evening of lectures called why man creates 00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:11.407 which eventually would be published. And the first person up is Cousteau 00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:18.306 what drives him? The 2nd 1, James Michener, what drives him to write? Why 00:32:18.339 --> 00:32:25.306 is he so interested in geography being tied to everything he does 00:32:25.339 --> 00:32:31.476 Carl Sagan, why is he crazy about the cosmos and most of these people 00:32:31.509 --> 00:32:38.867 except for Michener And ah Cousteau had never been heard of. They all 00:32:38.900 --> 00:32:45.607 turned into series, didn't they? And what happened with Carl Sagan? 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:51.407 Great, that that's a whole bunch of stories that nobody has time for all 00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:56.457 of that, The best one is mentioned, it we're at the wailing wall because 00:32:56.490 --> 00:33:00.607 one of his books was set in Israel 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:02.707 and 00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:10.207 all he has to do is say so it was here that 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:17.026 and he says so it was here and he knocks his glasses off and he steps on 00:33:17.059 --> 00:33:24.707 them. He's blind. He cannot see without his glasses 00:33:24.740 --> 00:33:31.937 and get getting, getting to his office, finding somebody, you know, the 00:33:31.970 --> 00:33:37.967 executive secretary who could find the the eyeglass prescription, getting 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:45.617 that sent by telex, no internet uh to Israel getting, I mean it was it was 00:33:45.650 --> 00:33:52.006 a week that was really expensive. That really went over budget. Thank you. 00:33:52.039 --> 00:34:00.039 So, but everything in that evening became series that we're part of the 00:34:01.190 --> 00:34:05.687 career at at Los Angeles, 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:09.807 I ran into steve Allen 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:17.840 who who was difficult to get along with and he was 00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:25.506 Really in a in a bad mood in the 60s and 70s because 00:34:25.539 --> 00:34:29.467 you know, there was nothing worse than in a restaurant overhearing your 00:34:29.500 --> 00:34:34.506 name. And somebody said didn't they pass away? 00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:40.617 I don't think, I don't think I've seen so and so and that would just just 00:34:40.650 --> 00:34:44.697 light him up um 00:34:44.730 --> 00:34:52.177 and he was really bright and investing so he had saved and had a fortune 00:34:52.210 --> 00:34:59.206 put away where a lot of show business people just put away debt. 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:04.977 But this thing of not being seen. So one day he calls up and he's got a 00:35:05.010 --> 00:35:10.106 terrific program for me. And 00:35:10.139 --> 00:35:18.139 and so I agreed to see him and I came in and he wanted I wanted laughter 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:27.320 on Mount Olympus. And the thing is that Zeus is calling up all the funny 00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:33.706 people and his and and great figures from history, 00:35:33.739 --> 00:35:39.227 you know Hitler whoever I mean this is just and it was very funny. I have 00:35:39.260 --> 00:35:45.597 read a lot of his scripts and he said oh no you can't have that. It's good 00:35:45.630 --> 00:35:49.506 , jesus, 00:35:49.539 --> 00:35:54.807 you can't have that, it's good. 00:35:54.840 --> 00:36:02.840 No, I'm saving that, that's a winner. You know jesus what 00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:10.097 I said, so do you have something horrible for us? Well 00:36:10.130 --> 00:36:14.396 yeah um 00:36:14.429 --> 00:36:18.197 yeah I do. 00:36:18.230 --> 00:36:22.186 He pulls out a meeting of the minds 00:36:22.219 --> 00:36:26.407 and I looked at it and said this is no laughter on Mount Olympus. But but 00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:30.967 it's funny and it's got a lot of possibilities and I especially like the 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:35.896 part your wife is in Jayne Meadows. 00:36:35.929 --> 00:36:42.006 Well that's a problem. I can't guarantee she'll be in any of it. We're 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:46.787 never allowed to discuss work with each other. I I can't ask her to be in 00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:52.097 anything and I won't be anything. She asked me to do, 00:36:52.130 --> 00:36:56.597 you know, that's how this marriages lasted. We just don't get into that. 00:36:56.630 --> 00:37:02.907 So you'll have to ask her yourself. And it became I think one of the most 00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:06.997 satisfying things we produced for stations, 00:37:07.030 --> 00:37:11.197 the meeting of the minds series. And 00:37:11.230 --> 00:37:17.217 and of course that's when I thought he was a genius and and he comes to an 00:37:17.250 --> 00:37:23.497 outline for the first show. It's a half a page And there's three jokes on 00:37:23.530 --> 00:37:29.997 it and he said, you know, this budget doesn't include a writer 00:37:30.030 --> 00:37:33.986 and it certainly is enough for me. So you people will have to figure out 00:37:34.019 --> 00:37:37.796 how you're going to create your script. 00:37:37.829 --> 00:37:43.997 So we did and I edited every one of them myself. 00:37:44.030 --> 00:37:47.267 You're one of the few people I know that have met President Nixon 00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:52.097 personally. What was your impression of? 00:37:52.130 --> 00:37:54.997 Mm hmm. 00:37:55.030 --> 00:38:01.477 Well he had been kicked out of office and you're reading daily in the in 00:38:01.510 --> 00:38:06.267 the L. A. Times pictures of him and the Secret Service guy going down the 00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:11.396 beach and he looks upset. You're reading that he's depressed, People are 00:38:11.429 --> 00:38:15.787 saying could he be suicidal? I mean this is just 00:38:15.820 --> 00:38:21.387 and at the time I was dating one of our funders uh Wallace don't call me 00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:24.986 wallet Annenberg 00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:28.977 whose father of course had purchased the ambassadorship to the court of ST 00:38:29.010 --> 00:38:37.010 James from Nixon. I mean he had been, he lost out to paley and so 00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:41.387 eventually he would buy, I'm so he buys it from Reagan. 00:38:41.420 --> 00:38:49.420 So anyway, uh, so we are going to dinner, you know at their 300 acre 00:38:52.519 --> 00:39:00.387 uh Hovel and Rancho mirage and 00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:06.617 and there are a couple of empty seats for dinner and these were never any 00:39:06.650 --> 00:39:13.316 fun. There was always somebody there that you know, it was a yesterday's 00:39:13.349 --> 00:39:20.336 important person. And so once everyone is seated, you know the ambassador 00:39:20.369 --> 00:39:23.287 rises, 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:28.807 we're now going to bring in our special guest, someone who needs no 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:35.686 introduction. President Richard Nixon, never an X. And he comes in, he's 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:41.486 got his only costume on the blue jacket, 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:48.427 the lapel pin, the gray pants and he is just happier than a hornet. This 00:39:48.460 --> 00:39:54.086 is not the next thing I've been reading about and he starts telling jokes 00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:58.407 and they're actually very funny jokes, but he's a guy who has a hard time 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:04.367 telling them because his, his meter gets off or he starts to give you the 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:09.896 punchline before the and he was very engaging and funny and he looked 00:40:09.929 --> 00:40:17.929 depressed to me and then he went out Uh with uh the ambassador and shot 36 00:40:18.230 --> 00:40:21.077 holes in the backyard. 00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:28.456 There was no suffering going on except for camera, A very smart guy. Um I 00:40:28.489 --> 00:40:31.977 don't think he had much human contact, 00:40:32.010 --> 00:40:37.097 but he had a terrific mind for detail. I think even the people who thought 00:40:37.130 --> 00:40:42.146 of being enemies were on a list somewhere. That was a great thing in L. A. 00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:48.396 Was the Nixon's enemy list. Everyone who was a writer, no insisted they 00:40:48.429 --> 00:40:52.977 were on it and the world came to an end. But eventually the times gets the 00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:56.876 enemies list they're not on 00:40:56.909 --> 00:41:02.657 and it was just awful. But um 00:41:02.690 --> 00:41:07.927 Moyers called and said you know we're going to I've gotten Reagan to agree 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:15.066 to to one hours and that's a good chance he'll be the next president. Um 00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:18.577 and we're going to shoot them at the ranch. 00:41:18.610 --> 00:41:23.276 You know these people 00:41:23.309 --> 00:41:27.776 do you think you could kind of get it set up for us and you know we'll pay 00:41:27.809 --> 00:41:32.267 you whatever it takes. But and every time we have someone from my office 00:41:32.300 --> 00:41:38.727 call we end up with a spat. His people just hate us. You know the nicest 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:41.477 thing they call us. They're Commies. 00:41:41.510 --> 00:41:45.177 I said okay 00:41:45.210 --> 00:41:50.767 so we we go up to the ranch in santa Barbara where you remember he was 00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:56.606 clearing brush at all times when there was a camera around and and he was 00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:00.997 a really nice guy. I mean it's one of the nicest people I've ever met was 00:42:01.030 --> 00:42:08.367 Ronald Reagan really very nice and very considerate and and his wife was 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:16.400 everything the wicked witch of the west wanted to be. I mean it was 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:24.800 really awful. So we shot a morning with Reagan and ah lawyers and he gets 00:42:26.869 --> 00:42:32.197 along with everyone. Reagan does. I mean he just I think he could I think 00:42:32.230 --> 00:42:36.117 he could interview with dead body and make it interesting. Just a great 00:42:36.150 --> 00:42:44.150 guy and and then we're gonna break for lunch and he said I know I'll make 00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:48.767 sandwiches, 00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:53.177 he goes into the house and he's in the kitchen making sandwiches for a 00:42:53.210 --> 00:42:57.876 crew of 13 or 14, I don't know and just humming and telling jokes. Great 00:42:57.909 --> 00:43:04.367 guy. And so we're out there with our sandwiches and beer and stuff 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:10.486 and here comes nancy damn you S. O. B. S ripping sandwiches and beer out 00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:17.137 of hand here. Oppressed asshole. You don't want us to be president. And 00:43:17.170 --> 00:43:21.856 she grabs the food and runs away 00:43:21.889 --> 00:43:25.967 and then announces she's going shopping. And and he said you know 00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:32.217 sometimes mommy has bad days that that was always his name for her mommy. 00:43:32.250 --> 00:43:35.467 They really 00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:41.217 I mean he was really a great person to be. He saved public TVs bacon every 00:43:41.250 --> 00:43:48.206 year that he was the president and he would have us in once a year where 00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:54.037 he wouldn't fight important people like you bob and me if there was room 00:43:54.070 --> 00:44:02.070 and he would tell jokes for 60 75 minutes without a script. I mean just 00:44:02.090 --> 00:44:05.977 and he always had the punch lines in the right place. I mean he was a 00:44:06.010 --> 00:44:11.856 brilliant storyteller, great great entertainer. 00:44:11.889 --> 00:44:16.256 The last L. A story is the best. I also had a local unit that made local 00:44:16.289 --> 00:44:22.017 shows and I think they were really the best things we made. How good were 00:44:22.050 --> 00:44:29.356 they? Well, none of the specials Could have a budget of more than 35,000. 00:44:29.389 --> 00:44:34.356 We earned two Oscars 00:44:34.389 --> 00:44:38.557 out of the underpaid people. The Oscars 00:44:38.590 --> 00:44:45.956 and nobody had done that. That's a good one for National Geographic. 00:44:45.989 --> 00:44:52.736 And the first one in fact was was a Woman's Barbara meier Hops doctoral 00:44:52.769 --> 00:44:56.557 dissertation called Old jews in venice 00:44:56.590 --> 00:45:01.486 which becomes numbering number, numbering our days, which which is a very 00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:09.519 moving film. Oscar and the other one was Taylor Hackford who yeah, I made 00:45:11.059 --> 00:45:15.856 a terrific film on ah 00:45:15.889 --> 00:45:22.256 old guys who made westerns who nobody remembers and and of course boxes 00:45:22.289 --> 00:45:27.416 and boxes literally of of local Emmys but they were too interesting units 00:45:27.449 --> 00:45:35.449 , one was over funded and there were some good times with it. But the the 00:45:37.389 --> 00:45:43.896 the local unit, just a week after week terrific material that people I 00:45:43.929 --> 00:45:51.929 really enjoyed watching and Oscars vs. There is no there's no great Emmy, 00:45:54.590 --> 00:45:57.776 you know, and snob value. 00:45:57.809 --> 00:46:04.026 Oh yeah. And all of those people connected with this stuff end up and 00:46:04.059 --> 00:46:07.956 marrying each other, having Children, having divorces, marrying other 00:46:07.989 --> 00:46:14.697 people but having terrific careers all from there Time at Channel eight. 00:46:14.730 --> 00:46:22.577 It really was a place and a time where we couldn't afford to hire pros. So 00:46:22.610 --> 00:46:29.307 we took people who, well I hired Taylor Hackford and you probably saw one 00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:37.340 of his movies Officer and a gentleman or Ray the Ray Charles movie. Um 00:46:37.980 --> 00:46:41.686 He, we hired him in the mail room and you know what you did in the 00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:49.177 mailroom. He opened my mail, he's reading all of my memos. 00:46:49.210 --> 00:46:54.927 This is true. This is absolutely true. And there's a discussion going on 00:46:54.960 --> 00:47:00.126 with business and the present others about whether we can afford to hire 00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:05.557 another producer and how much or could we promote someone? Did we have 00:47:05.590 --> 00:47:09.097 someone to promote? And what would the pay grade B and all this is 00:47:09.130 --> 00:47:14.247 floating around in memos, No email 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:22.280 and and there was no EEO at the time. So Taylor walks in in a suit. I 00:47:22.820 --> 00:47:27.217 hardly recognized him. And he said, I'm here for my interview. Your 00:47:27.250 --> 00:47:33.460 interview. Yes, I want to interview for the producer position. That's open. 00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:36.380 I said we just opened it 10 minutes ago. I know I was standing next to 00:47:39.909 --> 00:47:44.486 loppers door. I heard him tell you on the phone and I knew the job was 00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:50.847 coming. So I've I've got this, I've got demo tapes 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:54.247 and I said you've got the job. 00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:59.856 I mean, he's unstoppable. He's still unstoppable. He's married to Helen 00:47:59.889 --> 00:48:05.467 mirren always. Yes. Any award show. I don't like the Graham, not the 00:48:05.500 --> 00:48:12.537 Grammys, The Golden Globes, the center Taylor, the center table Taylor 00:48:12.570 --> 00:48:16.247 President of directors guild of America. Helen mirren because she's got 00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:18.646 Oscars. 00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:20.880 There yougo