WEBVTT

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 I noticed on your, to hear you mentioned something about the Peace Corps.

00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:08.816
You haven't mentioned that. Oh well it
wasn't really, I wasn't a member

00:00:08.849 --> 00:00:14.056
of the Peace Corps. I was an employee
of the Peace Corps per se. Um That

00:00:14.089 --> 00:00:21.506
was the summer before I went to
Chicago and they are a group of people

00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:25.317
were going to Bolivia and so they had
their training through the

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university on the indian reservation
west of town, I think it was pima

00:00:32.409 --> 00:00:39.537
indians and so I was in charge of the
female proportion of the training

00:00:39.570 --> 00:00:45.067
group. What kind of training did you
give them? You know, they visited

00:00:45.100 --> 00:00:49.967
families, they saw the kind of living
conditions they had and tried to

00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:58.000
plan to improve implement plans to
help them in their in their development

00:00:58.210 --> 00:01:03.296
as people and as a tribe and we had an
old school building out on the

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reservation um as far west and I can't
remember

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the name of that area but it was

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very far west and south and which is
now incorporated into phoenix I'm

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sure. But then it was just a
reservation with Levine. Levine, it was just

00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:36.076
beyond Levine. Yeah, thank you for
that information. And uh we've been out

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every day and spent, I spent half a
day there and then they did their

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other work in the afternoon visiting
families and things like that. How

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did you get involved in that? I don't
know, I

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don't know but but I was and the
agricultural department was involved also

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because they were helping with
teaching them ah better farming methods and

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many of them are still living in their
mud huts at that time on that

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reservation. And some of them were
drinking the water from the and canals

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that were there. And uh as such they
had gotten some diseases which they

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didn't need to have if they had had
team order. So those kinds of things

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came to the major areas that the Peace
Corps was working with and I'm sure

00:02:39.110 --> 00:02:43.066
they followed through on much of that
stuff when they went to in South

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America, how long would they come here
for their training? It was all

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summer.

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So did you ever do anything more with
the Peace Corps? Did you ever go

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overseas?

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I was just an employee.

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Sounds like an interesting job. Well
it was interesting. It was it was

00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:05.436
really very nice and you could do that
during the summer because the

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college wasn't busy. Yes, we weren't
offering courses uh and nursing and

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but I did I was at the college in the
afternoons for the most part and did

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interviews with students who were
interested in coming to the program and

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setting up experiences for the fall
for the students that were already in

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the program.

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So when you came back in 19, what was
that, what year did you come back? I

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think it was 67.

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And what what kind of work were you
doing? You said you started the

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masters? Yes, we started planning for
the Master's program then. What did

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that entail defining the courses. Uh
huh. Excluding the areas that were

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not ready at that time to be offered.
But still planning them. And

00:04:05.860 --> 00:04:13.707
some of the other faculty. Mm hmm.
Came we're working also. Some new

00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:20.327
faculty came at that time. And we
planned again for the courses and when

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and how and who would offer them when
it would be offered. How it would be

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developed and so forth. And how big
was the school of nursing at that time

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? Was it a school of nursing college?
It was college at that time. And uh

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I don't know. It was a we had a full
class schedule. I know that and I I

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don't have the numbers exactly. But it
was a full school.

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Who was the dean? The dean was Loretta
Hannah was barred. Wick was still

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in the dean at that time. And who was
the president of the university at

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that time. You know? I can't remember.
I know the greater damage was still

00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:17.486
here when I first came. Uh huh. But I
cannot remember who was president at

00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:22.707
that time. Did you get to know Grady
Gammage. No,

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no, I didn't, I knew his wife. Uh but
I didn't know him and he died

00:05:29.980 --> 00:05:36.606
sometime after I was employed here and
not too long after that.

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So you didn't really have much
association with the president of the

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university? I didn't until I started
working on the graduate programs. And

00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:52.937
then I had more contact with the
graduate college. And when was that? Um

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when I first came back from Chicago,

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were you still teaching also? I didn't
teach the first semester but I did

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after that. And what courses did you
teach? I taught human development and

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community health. And the human
development component was beginning with

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early childhood through adulthood and
aging.

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What does community health entail
learning about the community and the

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health problems in the community? And
uh some home visits to determine

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what was characteristic of different
parts of the community. So, was it

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tailored specifically to this
community here? Yes, it was. I mean not for

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you mean Tempe what community was?
Well, the the whole fix in various

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areas.

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Did you continue to work with some of
the native american community? Yes.

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Some of the students said. And some of
the faculty did.

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Mm hmm, fortunately. And, and at that
time we had no program specifically

00:07:12.129 --> 00:07:18.676
for the indian population. But we did
have indian students and they were

00:07:18.709 --> 00:07:24.356
just marvelous to work with because
they wanted so much to to learn more

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about the total community. How many
indian students roughly did you

00:07:29.029 --> 00:07:34.976
usually have? I think there were
usually three or 4 in, in most of the

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classes.

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They were learning nursing skills
where they planned to go back to their

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local communities. Some did. Yes, some
did. And some ah continued and got

00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:56.986
their master's degree and then they
became real a real benefit to their

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communities that they went back to. We
had some Navajo students. We had

00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:05.306
various students in that category.

00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:10.106
It was nice to be see them here. Did
you actually go out and recruit

00:08:10.139 --> 00:08:15.437
native americans to come to school
here? No, we, we didn't. I uh I don't

00:08:15.470 --> 00:08:20.236
think we did that. I don't recall it
if we did, but they were certainly

00:08:20.269 --> 00:08:23.406
welcome.

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You said you hadn't planned to come
back to you. Not necessarily. So when

00:08:28.629 --> 00:08:35.526
you came back, were you planning to
stay very long? Yes. Yes, I I did and

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I am, I can see that, but some people
say they only came planned to come

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for a couple of years and they're
still here. So I wondered if you really

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were gonna come back and stay or no, I
I didn't plan to leave necessarily.

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Is your family still here? Yes, yes, part of Bass Avenue.

00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:09.807
So what were your career goals then at
that time? Um

00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:14.026
my career goals were to do what I
could for the College of Nursing and

00:09:14.059 --> 00:09:20.476
with the College of Nursing and I was
very interested in the program and I

00:09:20.509 --> 00:09:27.276
was delighted to be part of it. And I
was also pleased to have the

00:09:27.309 --> 00:09:33.407
opportunity do in my position and also
in the courses I taught to start a

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nursing clinic for nurse practitioners
which in the early 70s was just

00:09:40.059 --> 00:09:45.276
beginning beginning to be talked about
and there were very few nurse

00:09:45.309 --> 00:09:50.937
practitioners in the country at that
time. So we started a program in

00:09:50.970 --> 00:09:57.866
nurse practitioner training and
education. And also started a clinic in

00:09:57.899 --> 00:10:05.899
Scottsdale which was used by the
community and is still in operation. And

00:10:06.299 --> 00:10:10.776
now the there's also a new clinic and
the new college building in phoenix

00:10:10.809 --> 00:10:17.356
, which will be a service to the
community while giving the students

00:10:17.389 --> 00:10:22.006
experience in being yours
practitioners.

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Okay, Alright. This is tape to with
Ellie Brands center.

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Um you started to tell us about the
clinic that you started in Scott's

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death. Tell us a little more about
that. How what was it like? Where was

00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:45.136
it? Well, we um we the country was
just beginning and particularly the

00:10:45.169 --> 00:10:49.837
division of nursing in Washington was
just beginning to recognize the fact

00:10:49.870 --> 00:10:54.787
that nurses who are prepared
appropriately and that's what the masters

00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:59.896
degree at least. And some preparation
and uh

00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:07.929
in home care and in patient care per
se uh would really be a benefit to

00:11:09.909 --> 00:11:16.907
the total country. And so there was
there were several movements through

00:11:16.940 --> 00:11:21.146
witchy, the organization, which I
mentioned before, and also through the

00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:26.577
national organizations that we began
to to educate nurses to be nurse

00:11:26.610 --> 00:11:33.356
practitioners. That is to do the
fundamental assessment and treatments

00:11:33.389 --> 00:11:40.207
that nurses I could do and can do. And
we're already doing informally.

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:46.256
And so we became interested in
developing a program like that, but for the

00:11:46.289 --> 00:11:49.907
most part, the thing that was
happening was for nurses indicated

00:11:49.940 --> 00:11:56.217
interested students in that they were
placed with physicians and their and

00:11:56.250 --> 00:12:04.250
their nursing instructor in some
office and I felt and others in the

00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:13.006
faculty felt that nurses should be on
their own and have the education

00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:18.476
which would prepare them for taking
care of people at the level which they

00:12:18.509 --> 00:12:23.787
were prepared to do, which was not to
do doctoral doctor type

00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:28.797
interventions, but nursing
interventions. How do you distinguish what's

00:12:28.830 --> 00:12:33.587
the difference between a doctor? Well,
the nurse can do a lot of

00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:41.620
assessments and tons of diagnosis and
treat lending conditions

00:12:43.019 --> 00:12:47.506
and do that sometimes

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very completely. I mean usually very
completely. And uh then as the

00:12:54.629 --> 00:13:01.187
patient needs to see the physician or
if the program is not adequate uh

00:13:01.220 --> 00:13:06.457
for what their problem is, then they
see the doctor, but it's sort of like

00:13:06.490 --> 00:13:10.606
a screening, but it's a complete
screening

00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:15.957
of what their illness or complaint is.
And so, tell me about the clinic

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that you started. Where was it at? It
was located in the vista del camino

00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:28.279
area in in Scottsdale. And fortunately
we were able to, they had, I didn't

00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:35.197
know it at the time, but they had a
room especially designed in their

00:13:35.230 --> 00:13:42.567
community building for that area for a
clinic only. They didn't know they

00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.496
thought it would be men by doctors or
they didn't know for sure what they

00:13:46.529 --> 00:13:53.217
were going to do with it. So we
further explored that and found that it

00:13:53.250 --> 00:14:00.146
was, it would be a nice spot for us to
have our training uh area and in

00:14:00.179 --> 00:14:04.537
the community for the students who are
interested in becoming a nurse

00:14:04.570 --> 00:14:12.570
practitioners. So with some work with
the community and the. Mhm. Indians

00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:21.240
, a lot of indians lived in that area
and we're not eligible for care

00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:27.307
to the county or through any
organization at that time. They later became

00:14:27.340 --> 00:14:33.846
accepted as a tribe and we're now are
able to receive there uh care

00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:36.807
through the indian service,

00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:43.856
the Yaqui Indians. And so we had an
agreement with the city or development

00:14:43.889 --> 00:14:51.077
agreement with the city to have that
space. And received some money from

00:14:51.110 --> 00:14:56.596
the state, from the medical program
which was, I can't remember what the

00:14:56.629 --> 00:15:02.606
name of that program was. But it was a
a federal program uh developed to

00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.886
go into communities and sort of define
what their problems, their health

00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:10.996
problems were, but that was closing
down and so we got some of their

00:15:11.029 --> 00:15:16.177
equipment Fortunately to the tune of
about $3,000 I think it was worth

00:15:16.210 --> 00:15:24.210
that much when you got it. And then
some physicians gave us some some exam

00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:31.146
tables. A couple of physicians that I
happen to know gave us. We're going

00:15:31.179 --> 00:15:37.837
out of practice and favor some
equipment. And so we worked with the

00:15:37.870 --> 00:15:43.587
community and with the city per se and
opened our own little clinic with

00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:49.707
the county hospital or county health
department also assisted with that.

00:15:49.740 --> 00:15:54.657
Yeah. So what was really the purpose
of having a clinic there having

00:15:54.690 --> 00:16:01.297
students be able to practice their
under the supervision of faculty. Uh

00:16:01.330 --> 00:16:07.917
And we had a physician consultant to
begin with. So I guess your college

00:16:07.950 --> 00:16:11.667
of nursing at A. S. U. Didn't really
have a medical school where they

00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:16.037
couldn't practice. So was that
somewhat of a challenge for you? Uh Well

00:16:16.070 --> 00:16:24.070
just the whole figure is a challenge
but the community was pleased and uh

00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:31.766
finally I was able to get a grant
written midst all of the things that

00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:38.976
were happening and we received almost
$3 million dollars for the

00:16:39.009 --> 00:16:45.157
development of the clinic and the
education of students through that

00:16:45.190 --> 00:16:47.896
practice.

00:16:47.929 --> 00:16:55.707
So when did that clinical uh again
years uh

00:16:55.740 --> 00:17:03.740
In 77 I think. Uh huh. And our 75. No
we wrote we finished writing it in

00:17:04.099 --> 00:17:08.897
75. They could not fund it then
because of the office was moving the

00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:16.506
division of nursing in Washington. and
so in 77 we were awarded the money

00:17:16.539 --> 00:17:22.756
and we're able to really, while we
started before we had that the money on

00:17:22.789 --> 00:17:30.236
a very limited basis. We are It wasn't
until 1977 when we really opened

00:17:30.269 --> 00:17:38.269
the doors for For 3 5 days a week ah
seeing patients.

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:43.006
And what was your role with the
clinic? Did you actually spend your time

00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:49.836
there? I was director of the project
which which

00:17:49.869 --> 00:17:56.847
provided the care there. So and I had
written the grant and and um faculty

00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:01.566
and I had developed the extent of what
we should do and what we shouldn't

00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:08.576
do. And so I was simply the director
of the project. So did you work out

00:18:08.609 --> 00:18:16.609
of that? I did work out of there in
part simply facilitating what was

00:18:16.700 --> 00:18:20.417
happening there. I spent a lot of time
going back and forth between a

00:18:20.450 --> 00:18:24.107
issue and Scottsdale. Yes,

00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:29.167
that is very interesting. The people
were so receptive and the students

00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:33.887
were so glad to be able to practice on
their own with with the faculty

00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:40.407
there. And uh it was very interesting.
The community really loved it

00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.707
because they had no other source of
care at that point,

00:18:44.740 --> 00:18:50.597
but anybody was welcome to come into
the clinic. At first we charged on a

00:18:50.630 --> 00:18:55.367
sliding fee scale. And I think by the
end of the total grant we had

00:18:55.400 --> 00:19:03.400
something like 66 or $600 rather out
of uh collection of fees. So that

00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:11.806
aspect had to be changed because the
community uh was changing then also

00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:18.367
and some people had money and could
pay for their care and we received

00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:24.256
some help from outside. Uh huh. Saint
saint joseph or not ST Josephs, but

00:19:24.289 --> 00:19:29.427
ST luke's hospital as a program which
they paid for some patients who

00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:34.806
could not pay

00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.256
what other other students that didn't
work at the clinic, where did the

00:19:38.289 --> 00:19:44.377
students for me as you get their
practical experience in various parts in

00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:49.576
the master's program or in all general
in general in various hospitals

00:19:49.609 --> 00:19:54.806
throughout the community and various
health and also the county health

00:19:54.839 --> 00:20:01.707
department in various sites. So they
had to do a lot of traveling.

00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:05.036
Was that a hardship for some students?
It was hardship for some, but most

00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:10.647
of them were able to have cars,
particularly the master students because

00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:17.107
they were more mature students,
usually already graduates with bachelor's

00:20:17.140 --> 00:20:24.546
degree and some of them were mothers,
a lot of Children and knowledgeable

00:20:24.579 --> 00:20:30.226
about Children do. So were most of the
students at the college of nursing

00:20:30.259 --> 00:20:34.246
than students that came into the
program right from high school or did

00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:40.657
they come later in life? Uh, they both
both, many of them came right into

00:20:40.690 --> 00:20:44.486
the program and did the bachelor's
program first and then moved directly

00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:49.667
into the master's program. Others had
been practicing for a while. And I

00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:55.407
think this is still true and and
decided to continue their nationals

00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.506
degree

00:20:57.539 --> 00:21:01.756
or the students primarily women or did
you get some men? We had a few men

00:21:01.789 --> 00:21:07.246
, not many to begin with. I think
there are more now and I don't know

00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.826
numbers, but I know that there are
more male students in the program now

00:21:11.859 --> 00:21:16.407
than than we had at the beginning.

00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:20.707
And there are definitely more indian
students because there's an indian

00:21:20.740 --> 00:21:27.986
education program in in effect. And
one of our previous students who was

00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:34.917
the director of nursing at the,

00:21:34.950 --> 00:21:42.950
not at the hospital at the university
study university. The college in in

00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:52.236
Mesa and now is in charge of that
indian education program. And she still

00:21:52.269 --> 00:21:58.506
is in the same building that over on
university

00:21:58.539 --> 00:22:03.107
with her little student group.

00:22:03.140 --> 00:22:07.107
Is there any special events from your
career here at issue that stands out

00:22:07.140 --> 00:22:10.506
in your mind?

00:22:10.539 --> 00:22:18.539
No, I guess all of them were exciting
for me, enjoyed enjoying it. And I

00:22:18.950 --> 00:22:25.806
suppose the development of the
master's program and the development of the

00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:33.407
clinic was two things that that I'm
particularly still interested in.

00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.476
I noticed on your vita that you
mentioned that you were the assistant dean

00:22:37.509 --> 00:22:42.967
a couple of times. How did that come
about? Uh I guess it came about

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:50.877
because the dean needed somebody to
help and I happened to be there. I was

00:22:50.910 --> 00:22:58.607
aware of most of the programs that
were going on within the college and

00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:03.516
he was simply there. Um, what you
mean, Loretta was the dean when she

00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:10.796
hired you. What other other deans have
you had? Um We had after Loretta

00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:15.107
left, we had another dean.

00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:19.207
We had um,

00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:22.496
one of the Dean's was

00:23:22.529 --> 00:23:29.566
the recent one before our current dean
is mm hmm. Gosh, I can't remember

00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:35.127
her name now. She was with us about
five years and I was out of the

00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:42.006
program for most of those years after
I retired. I did go back to help

00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:49.427
part time with the master's programs,
but it turned out not to be really

00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:55.256
part time as those jobs sellers do. So
I can't remember but and then we

00:23:55.289 --> 00:24:00.796
had you know I can't remember those
scenes scenes. I'm sorry this

00:24:00.829 --> 00:24:08.829
memorable. No. No. well Janelle
Krueger was the next one I think. And she

00:24:09.220 --> 00:24:12.707
was she was very nice.

00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:18.086
Did you work pretty closely with the
Dean's? Yes because I was in charge

00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:25.390
of the Master's programs in general
and I did work very closely with them.

00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.640
What is it about the College of nursing that you think makes it a special

00:24:31.109 --> 00:24:33.207
program?

00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:39.306
Well I think it's a special program
because it's providing education for

00:24:39.339 --> 00:24:41.707
for

00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:46.677
students who are really interested in
working with the community and with

00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:53.907
people who need nursing care and
healthcare in general health instruction.

00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:58.607
 So I think it's valuable

00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:06.640
program which is used by all society
because if one is ill you certainly

00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:13.816
would like to have a nurse who is and
a doctor also and other people who

00:25:13.849 --> 00:25:17.907
are qualified and competent

00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:22.806
I think and I think they work with the
community is very important.

00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:27.707
Does that make a issue different than
other colleges of nursing?

00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:34.717
Uh No I don't think so. It depends on
the focus of the different colleges

00:25:34.750 --> 00:25:39.420
but I think the purpose is generally
thesame