I noticed on your, to hear you mentioned something about the Peace Corps.
You haven't mentioned that. Oh well it wasn't really, I wasn't a member
of the Peace Corps. I was an employee of the Peace Corps per se. Um That
was the summer before I went to Chicago and they are a group of people
were going to Bolivia and so they had their training through the
university on the indian reservation west of town, I think it was pima
indians and so I was in charge of the female proportion of the training
group. What kind of training did you give them? You know, they visited
families, they saw the kind of living conditions they had and tried to
plan to improve implement plans to help them in their in their development
as people and as a tribe and we had an old school building out on the
reservation um as far west and I can't remember
the name of that area but it was
very far west and south and which is now incorporated into phoenix I'm
sure. But then it was just a reservation with Levine. Levine, it was just
beyond Levine. Yeah, thank you for that information. And uh we've been out
every day and spent, I spent half a day there and then they did their
other work in the afternoon visiting families and things like that. How
did you get involved in that? I don't know, I
don't know but but I was and the agricultural department was involved also
because they were helping with teaching them ah better farming methods and
many of them are still living in their mud huts at that time on that
reservation. And some of them were drinking the water from the and canals
that were there. And uh as such they had gotten some diseases which they
didn't need to have if they had had team order. So those kinds of things
came to the major areas that the Peace Corps was working with and I'm sure
they followed through on much of that stuff when they went to in South
America, how long would they come here for their training? It was all
summer.
So did you ever do anything more with the Peace Corps? Did you ever go
overseas?
I was just an employee.
Sounds like an interesting job. Well it was interesting. It was it was
really very nice and you could do that during the summer because the
college wasn't busy. Yes, we weren't offering courses uh and nursing and
but I did I was at the college in the afternoons for the most part and did
interviews with students who were interested in coming to the program and
setting up experiences for the fall for the students that were already in
the program.
So when you came back in 19, what was that, what year did you come back? I
think it was 67.
And what what kind of work were you doing? You said you started the
masters? Yes, we started planning for the Master's program then. What did
that entail defining the courses. Uh huh. Excluding the areas that were
not ready at that time to be offered. But still planning them. And
some of the other faculty. Mm hmm. Came we're working also. Some new
faculty came at that time. And we planned again for the courses and when
and how and who would offer them when it would be offered. How it would be
developed and so forth. And how big was the school of nursing at that time
? Was it a school of nursing college? It was college at that time. And uh
I don't know. It was a we had a full class schedule. I know that and I I
don't have the numbers exactly. But it was a full school.
Who was the dean? The dean was Loretta Hannah was barred. Wick was still
in the dean at that time. And who was the president of the university at
that time. You know? I can't remember. I know the greater damage was still
here when I first came. Uh huh. But I cannot remember who was president at
that time. Did you get to know Grady Gammage. No,
no, I didn't, I knew his wife. Uh but I didn't know him and he died
sometime after I was employed here and not too long after that.
So you didn't really have much association with the president of the
university? I didn't until I started working on the graduate programs. And
then I had more contact with the graduate college. And when was that? Um
when I first came back from Chicago,
were you still teaching also? I didn't teach the first semester but I did
after that. And what courses did you teach? I taught human development and
community health. And the human development component was beginning with
early childhood through adulthood and aging.
What does community health entail learning about the community and the
health problems in the community? And uh some home visits to determine
what was characteristic of different parts of the community. So, was it
tailored specifically to this community here? Yes, it was. I mean not for
you mean Tempe what community was? Well, the the whole fix in various
areas.
Did you continue to work with some of the native american community? Yes.
Some of the students said. And some of the faculty did.
Mm hmm, fortunately. And, and at that time we had no program specifically
for the indian population. But we did have indian students and they were
just marvelous to work with because they wanted so much to to learn more
about the total community. How many indian students roughly did you
usually have? I think there were usually three or 4 in, in most of the
classes.
They were learning nursing skills where they planned to go back to their
local communities. Some did. Yes, some did. And some ah continued and got
their master's degree and then they became real a real benefit to their
communities that they went back to. We had some Navajo students. We had
various students in that category.
It was nice to be see them here. Did you actually go out and recruit
native americans to come to school here? No, we, we didn't. I uh I don't
think we did that. I don't recall it if we did, but they were certainly
welcome.
You said you hadn't planned to come back to you. Not necessarily. So when
you came back, were you planning to stay very long? Yes. Yes, I I did and
I am, I can see that, but some people say they only came planned to come
for a couple of years and they're still here. So I wondered if you really
were gonna come back and stay or no, I I didn't plan to leave necessarily.
Is your family still here? Yes, yes, part of Bass Avenue.
So what were your career goals then at that time? Um
my career goals were to do what I could for the College of Nursing and
with the College of Nursing and I was very interested in the program and I
was delighted to be part of it. And I was also pleased to have the
opportunity do in my position and also in the courses I taught to start a
nursing clinic for nurse practitioners which in the early 70s was just
beginning beginning to be talked about and there were very few nurse
practitioners in the country at that time. So we started a program in
nurse practitioner training and education. And also started a clinic in
Scottsdale which was used by the community and is still in operation. And
now the there's also a new clinic and the new college building in phoenix
, which will be a service to the community while giving the students
experience in being yours practitioners.
Okay, Alright. This is tape to with Ellie Brands center.
Um you started to tell us about the clinic that you started in Scott's
death. Tell us a little more about that. How what was it like? Where was
it? Well, we um we the country was just beginning and particularly the
division of nursing in Washington was just beginning to recognize the fact
that nurses who are prepared appropriately and that's what the masters
degree at least. And some preparation and uh
in home care and in patient care per se uh would really be a benefit to
the total country. And so there was there were several movements through
witchy, the organization, which I mentioned before, and also through the
national organizations that we began to to educate nurses to be nurse
practitioners. That is to do the fundamental assessment and treatments
that nurses I could do and can do. And we're already doing informally.
And so we became interested in developing a program like that, but for the
most part, the thing that was happening was for nurses indicated
interested students in that they were placed with physicians and their and
their nursing instructor in some office and I felt and others in the
faculty felt that nurses should be on their own and have the education
which would prepare them for taking care of people at the level which they
were prepared to do, which was not to do doctoral doctor type
interventions, but nursing interventions. How do you distinguish what's
the difference between a doctor? Well, the nurse can do a lot of
assessments and tons of diagnosis and treat lending conditions
and do that sometimes
very completely. I mean usually very completely. And uh then as the
patient needs to see the physician or if the program is not adequate uh
for what their problem is, then they see the doctor, but it's sort of like
a screening, but it's a complete screening
of what their illness or complaint is. And so, tell me about the clinic
that you started. Where was it at? It was located in the vista del camino
area in in Scottsdale. And fortunately we were able to, they had, I didn't
know it at the time, but they had a room especially designed in their
community building for that area for a clinic only. They didn't know they
thought it would be men by doctors or they didn't know for sure what they
were going to do with it. So we further explored that and found that it
was, it would be a nice spot for us to have our training uh area and in
the community for the students who are interested in becoming a nurse
practitioners. So with some work with the community and the. Mhm. Indians
, a lot of indians lived in that area and we're not eligible for care
to the county or through any organization at that time. They later became
accepted as a tribe and we're now are able to receive there uh care
through the indian service,
the Yaqui Indians. And so we had an agreement with the city or development
agreement with the city to have that space. And received some money from
the state, from the medical program which was, I can't remember what the
name of that program was. But it was a a federal program uh developed to
go into communities and sort of define what their problems, their health
problems were, but that was closing down and so we got some of their
equipment Fortunately to the tune of about $3,000 I think it was worth
that much when you got it. And then some physicians gave us some some exam
tables. A couple of physicians that I happen to know gave us. We're going
out of practice and favor some equipment. And so we worked with the
community and with the city per se and opened our own little clinic with
the county hospital or county health department also assisted with that.
Yeah. So what was really the purpose of having a clinic there having
students be able to practice their under the supervision of faculty. Uh
And we had a physician consultant to begin with. So I guess your college
of nursing at A. S. U. Didn't really have a medical school where they
couldn't practice. So was that somewhat of a challenge for you? Uh Well
just the whole figure is a challenge but the community was pleased and uh
finally I was able to get a grant written midst all of the things that
were happening and we received almost $3 million dollars for the
development of the clinic and the education of students through that
practice.
So when did that clinical uh again years uh
In 77 I think. Uh huh. And our 75. No we wrote we finished writing it in
75. They could not fund it then because of the office was moving the
division of nursing in Washington. and so in 77 we were awarded the money
and we're able to really, while we started before we had that the money on
a very limited basis. We are It wasn't until 1977 when we really opened
the doors for For 3 5 days a week ah seeing patients.
And what was your role with the clinic? Did you actually spend your time
there? I was director of the project which which
provided the care there. So and I had written the grant and and um faculty
and I had developed the extent of what we should do and what we shouldn't
do. And so I was simply the director of the project. So did you work out
of that? I did work out of there in part simply facilitating what was
happening there. I spent a lot of time going back and forth between a
issue and Scottsdale. Yes,
that is very interesting. The people were so receptive and the students
were so glad to be able to practice on their own with with the faculty
there. And uh it was very interesting. The community really loved it
because they had no other source of care at that point,
but anybody was welcome to come into the clinic. At first we charged on a
sliding fee scale. And I think by the end of the total grant we had
something like 66 or $600 rather out of uh collection of fees. So that
aspect had to be changed because the community uh was changing then also
and some people had money and could pay for their care and we received
some help from outside. Uh huh. Saint saint joseph or not ST Josephs, but
ST luke's hospital as a program which they paid for some patients who
could not pay
what other other students that didn't work at the clinic, where did the
students for me as you get their practical experience in various parts in
the master's program or in all general in general in various hospitals
throughout the community and various health and also the county health
department in various sites. So they had to do a lot of traveling.
Was that a hardship for some students? It was hardship for some, but most
of them were able to have cars, particularly the master students because
they were more mature students, usually already graduates with bachelor's
degree and some of them were mothers, a lot of Children and knowledgeable
about Children do. So were most of the students at the college of nursing
than students that came into the program right from high school or did
they come later in life? Uh, they both both, many of them came right into
the program and did the bachelor's program first and then moved directly
into the master's program. Others had been practicing for a while. And I
think this is still true and and decided to continue their nationals
degree
or the students primarily women or did you get some men? We had a few men
, not many to begin with. I think there are more now and I don't know
numbers, but I know that there are more male students in the program now
than than we had at the beginning.
And there are definitely more indian students because there's an indian
education program in in effect. And one of our previous students who was
the director of nursing at the,
not at the hospital at the university study university. The college in in
Mesa and now is in charge of that indian education program. And she still
is in the same building that over on university
with her little student group.
Is there any special events from your career here at issue that stands out
in your mind?
No, I guess all of them were exciting for me, enjoyed enjoying it. And I
suppose the development of the master's program and the development of the
clinic was two things that that I'm particularly still interested in.
I noticed on your vita that you mentioned that you were the assistant dean
a couple of times. How did that come about? Uh I guess it came about
because the dean needed somebody to help and I happened to be there. I was
aware of most of the programs that were going on within the college and
he was simply there. Um, what you mean, Loretta was the dean when she
hired you. What other other deans have you had? Um We had after Loretta
left, we had another dean.
We had um,
one of the Dean's was
the recent one before our current dean is mm hmm. Gosh, I can't remember
her name now. She was with us about five years and I was out of the
program for most of those years after I retired. I did go back to help
part time with the master's programs, but it turned out not to be really
part time as those jobs sellers do. So I can't remember but and then we
had you know I can't remember those scenes scenes. I'm sorry this
memorable. No. No. well Janelle Krueger was the next one I think. And she
was she was very nice.
Did you work pretty closely with the Dean's? Yes because I was in charge
of the Master's programs in general and I did work very closely with them.
What is it about the College of nursing that you think makes it a special
program?
Well I think it's a special program because it's providing education for
for
students who are really interested in working with the community and with
people who need nursing care and healthcare in general health instruction.
So I think it's valuable
program which is used by all society because if one is ill you certainly
would like to have a nurse who is and a doctor also and other people who
are qualified and competent
I think and I think they work with the community is very important.
Does that make a issue different than other colleges of nursing?
Uh No I don't think so. It depends on the focus of the different colleges
but I think the purpose is generally thesame