WEBVTT 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:10.240 Now it's 1980 00:00:11.009 --> 00:00:15.396 and I'm at Stoffer B 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:20.107 and you're asking me if I can afford 00:00:20.140 --> 00:00:25.546 18 5 something, Something like that. It wasn't quite 20 round was it? I 00:00:25.579 --> 00:00:28.706 don't think so 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:35.107 but it's okay. I had saved my entire life had been on the company 00:00:35.140 --> 00:00:40.107 and I ask you what your aspirations were 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:44.146 And you know what your wishes for Channel eight. Well you'd like you'd 00:00:44.179 --> 00:00:49.217 like to beat Chicago an audience someday because you really like this guy 00:00:49.250 --> 00:00:54.807 that manages it but he gets too much attention and they kind of ignore all 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:58.747 of us in the smaller markets. You know you're on the PBS board and it 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:03.586 sounded like Bill McCarter and the Chicago people are sitting at the adult 00:01:03.619 --> 00:01:11.619 table and people in market 35 college station they're over. Okay what else 00:01:13.010 --> 00:01:19.007 ? Well we've got this program I'm worried about 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:26.387 30 minutes. I can't remember the name of it. Arizona Arizona weekly it was 00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:32.786 supposed to be a Channel 8s version of 60 minutes only at 30 minutes and 00:01:32.819 --> 00:01:40.819 they never made more than 20 minutes sometimes 14 minutes. Oh jesus. And 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.507 ah 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:49.176 you know this is an ideal place for me at that time. Many people I had 00:01:49.209 --> 00:01:52.816 gone to school with or grown up with or have been in the boy scouts with 00:01:52.849 --> 00:01:55.706 were in the legislature 00:01:55.739 --> 00:01:58.706 and 00:01:58.739 --> 00:02:01.007 ah 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:05.557 you know Arizona Weekly just just was so unreliable. They all wanted to 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:08.186 work at the New times 00:02:08.219 --> 00:02:13.267 and they would hide secret files all over Channel A and it had rained on 00:02:13.300 --> 00:02:17.647 the roof leaked on the second floor and we came to work one day and there 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:24.416 was a whole in the soundproofing like this. It had gotten so full of water. 00:02:24.449 --> 00:02:31.207 It tore the secret files were coming through. 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:34.707 Oh God! And 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:38.527 And at the same time the university wanted to be on Channel eight. More 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:42.916 Channel eight was a very popular station at a very good audience, had a 00:02:42.949 --> 00:02:50.406 terrific reputation. And um um 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:58.367 so I eventually I canceled it and and put in Horizon ah with the idea that 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:05.307 it could be more current and that it wouldn't spend a lot of time exposing 00:03:05.340 --> 00:03:08.547 people, especially people around the university appropriation committee 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:11.707 that was never popular 00:03:11.740 --> 00:03:16.096 and and yet a place that a professor who had made a breakthrough and 00:03:16.129 --> 00:03:22.606 something could appear uh and and be treated intelligently 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:30.639 and it was a pure A s you show the crew is all students. 00:03:30.740 --> 00:03:38.740 Michael Grant, a young up and coming lawyer was the house and I think we 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:43.777 were able to solve most of your problems. I think Horizon did a lot of 00:03:43.810 --> 00:03:51.617 wonderful things. It made history with the university benefited from. uh 00:03:51.650 --> 00:03:55.297 we were going to go on the air in 1981 00:03:55.330 --> 00:04:01.606 and then Goldwater gets a Supreme Court nomination for Sandra O'Connor 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:06.846 and I call PBS to find out when the televised hearings will be because 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:13.827 they televise all kinds of confirmation hearings. Well, she's from Arizona. 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:17.306 Don't take this personally. But 00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:21.457 you know, we're just, I don't think anyone knows who she is out here. Oh 00:04:21.490 --> 00:04:26.007 it was awful. I was really 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:28.786 tell me 00:04:28.819 --> 00:04:34.306 I'm from the sewer mm And 00:04:34.339 --> 00:04:40.866 so I went in and yelled the usual at you. Something must be done, 00:04:40.899 --> 00:04:44.957 something must be done. That's one of the few things about this state. 00:04:44.990 --> 00:04:50.406 That's not an embarrassment. It's not a polo tie and so why don't we do 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:58.439 it? And you had that if you can pay for it I think we can do it. 00:04:59.110 --> 00:05:01.906 And 00:05:01.939 --> 00:05:05.507 so uh 00:05:05.540 --> 00:05:09.976 somebody's from Los Angeles other places gave me a lot of leads. So the 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:17.796 first thing we we uh we got was the exclusive use of the only television 00:05:17.829 --> 00:05:22.856 microwave out of the Senate hearing chambers. There's only one and once it 00:05:22.889 --> 00:05:30.606 is assigned nobody can move. So I got that piece of it 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.606 um 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:41.639 which meant c span had to negotiate with me to carry it out of state. Um 00:05:42.339 --> 00:05:49.207 per diem at the time would not cover any Washington D. C. Hotel or motel. 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:56.267 So we had a problem with our producer Rick Wilson and Grant, you know how 00:05:56.300 --> 00:05:59.207 are we going to pay for 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:07.240 ah their expenses because they weren't famous at the time. And 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:14.007 but eventually we found a way around that and then ah 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:19.546 it was in our schedule we had our producer we had Michael Grant but this 00:06:19.579 --> 00:06:24.846 meant that we had to delay horizons debut because we didn't have enough 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:29.606 people to do both and 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:36.507 we were missing a satellite. I forgot a satellite 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:40.366 so Detroit has been trying to hire me. So I flew off to see Dave caldwell 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:47.406 in new york and in Detroit and 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:55.439 he had a talk show. I can't remember the guy who ah 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.346 I can't remember the guy who did the talk show. It was carried by a number 00:07:00.379 --> 00:07:06.536 of stations and so he had satellite time independent of PBS and PBS had no 00:07:06.569 --> 00:07:11.957 interest in this. Who is this? I mean we called W E T A. They don't know 00:07:11.990 --> 00:07:19.207 that Sandra O'Connor person. Mm hmm. 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:21.606 So 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:27.606 this is kind of getting around the office at PBS and leaking out. 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:32.606 Mm hmm. I get a call from the new york Times 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:37.496 New york times says, are you really going to carry this? Yes, every minute 00:07:37.529 --> 00:07:44.337 of it, no matter how many weeks it takes. Well tell us about this person. 00:07:44.370 --> 00:07:52.370 I'm a, I'm a born texas walks to Arizona raised on a ranch. Um, 00:07:55.040 --> 00:08:00.207 tough, fair crotchety. 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.077 Um, 00:08:03.110 --> 00:08:07.757 and I said, well you know, we can't find out from W A. T. When it's going 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:11.546 to be on the air here. And I thought it's not, what do you mean? It's not 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:13.606 , 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:20.406 don't they realize how big this is. This is the first woman ever 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.437 nominated 00:08:22.470 --> 00:08:30.007 to the Supreme Court. So these, these hearings are really important. 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:34.907 Well you'll have to get a statement from PBS about that. 00:08:34.940 --> 00:08:40.557 They call it PBS, the new york times wants to know. And then before they 00:08:40.590 --> 00:08:45.736 can come up with something, the post is on the phone, they don't quite 00:08:45.769 --> 00:08:50.197 understand why you don't think this is important. And Katharine Graham 00:08:50.230 --> 00:08:54.167 personally wants to know what your answer is. Oh my God, the owner of the 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.177 Washington post and newsweek. 00:08:57.210 --> 00:09:03.386 And it takes so little, it takes so little to blow a media mind around. So 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:07.907 they're suddenly on the phone, they now understand and they have room, 00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:12.337 they have room for Sandra O'Connor and they want to carry it with paul 00:09:12.370 --> 00:09:20.370 Duke who is the they're they're Washington week in review moderator. Well 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:27.016 known in journalistic circles. And he'll just do a wonderful job. And you 00:09:27.049 --> 00:09:33.506 won't have to ask what's his name to fly out here. 00:09:33.539 --> 00:09:38.217 I don't know. We've gone too far. And his name is Michael Grant and he is 00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:44.807 going to moderate these hearings. And that's just all there is to it. 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:51.006 Well, you can't tell us, no, we're in trouble 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:56.856 and you're in trouble. Well, do your own coverage. We can't. You've got 00:09:56.889 --> 00:10:00.606 the microwave assignment. 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:05.807 Well, maybe we could take the pictures and put on our own commentary. 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:10.677 Oh, geez, I said this is worse than when I re created a baseball game in 00:10:10.710 --> 00:10:15.307 college 00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:22.807 using live play by play with, with a game board with a little 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:29.337 baseball players. I don't remember. I know you don't tell audio sports. It 00:10:29.370 --> 00:10:33.986 was the first time your name was in broadcast magazine. I believe the 00:10:34.019 --> 00:10:42.019 technician, you were included for you not. Thank you. So, uh 00:10:42.940 --> 00:10:48.776 then, you know, W. E. T. A. Calls and everyone just in tears that they 00:10:48.809 --> 00:10:52.797 just see them being selves being burned alive and being thrown into the 00:10:52.830 --> 00:10:56.917 streets because if the new york times doesn't approve it and the 00:10:56.950 --> 00:11:02.317 Washington post and this is Graham personally wants to know. And so I said 00:11:02.350 --> 00:11:05.606 , okay, um, 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:13.639 why don't we do this? Uh, will originate the broadcast. 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:21.106 Michael Grant will be the the lead um 00:11:21.139 --> 00:11:23.407 commentator, 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:29.287 paul Duke may assist him and I will speak to Mr Duke about assisting as 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:37.320 opposed to shoving out of the way. And and you will pay us for it 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:43.707 and you will pay all of the costs. And then it could be big. This this 00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:49.407 could be 40,000, probably 30 something. I don't remember anything, 00:11:49.440 --> 00:11:55.287 anything and no receipts. We don't want to get into collecting cab 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:58.986 receipts and stuff. We're getting too close to air. No, we'll just give 00:11:59.019 --> 00:12:02.606 you a check 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:10.356 and then they'll be to calls the same thing For another 35. We will put 00:12:10.389 --> 00:12:13.106 your name on it 00:12:13.139 --> 00:12:20.006 under hours at the end of it. And paul Duke was terrific. 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:27.337 Took grant out on the town. They just became fast buddies. And uh they 00:12:27.370 --> 00:12:34.907 they were wonderful together on the air and it was a terrific telecast. It 00:12:34.940 --> 00:12:41.687 got wonderful reviews. Uh and and the important newspapers of the world 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:49.720 and PBS bacon was saved and the little station that could without anything 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:56.616 did something that was, I still think it was important and was the kind of 00:12:56.649 --> 00:13:03.366 thing that college station can do when a commercial station you can't you 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:08.746 just can't get all the commercials in and and it's not that they I 00:13:08.779 --> 00:13:13.606 wouldn't want to it's just not possible to think about doing those things. 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.917 Um But you know life was going to get bigger than that. I think the make 00:13:18.950 --> 00:13:25.067 of impeachment was bigger. The heart operation. Why I tell you what we're 00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:31.726 gonna do, meek, I'm alive. Yeah. And we're going to do all of it 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:39.759 170 and a half hours of live television. It went on for weeks. It went on 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:46.096 for weeks. I mean, we look like the Mickum station. Well you did something 00:13:46.129 --> 00:13:50.526 that was special though, you told the commercial stations in town they 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:56.016 could take any part of it. We're going to but we wanted to be the station 00:13:56.049 --> 00:14:01.006 interesting and they paid the bills and they put up the equipment and they 00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:05.787 could go live to it anytime used as much as they wanted to. And I think we 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:10.876 share joint awards over it, which was fine to me that's where the station 00:14:10.909 --> 00:14:18.909 belonged, able to facilitate things with the broadcasting community and um 00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:24.807 and playing an important role in the life of 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:30.516 of of phoenix. Your best quote I think is the one from the open heart 00:14:30.549 --> 00:14:35.787 surgery. Just like we're going to do the first televised open heart 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:41.037 surgery. I wanted to do this in Los Angeles but I couldn't because there 00:14:41.070 --> 00:14:48.567 were influential people from U. C. L. A. Medical school and USC on the 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:54.256 board and it wasn't discussed but I had learned a lot about how to do 00:14:54.289 --> 00:15:02.289 televised surgery because in L. A. We had another channel that did 00:15:02.299 --> 00:15:09.366 surgery every day, every surgery you can think of only it was coded so 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:15.807 that a regular receiver couldn't receive it. Um 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:22.886 And we got together with ted Dietrich and figured out how we would do it. 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:27.707 I'm going to use all students from from our crew. 00:15:27.740 --> 00:15:29.827 Um 00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:36.366 and some of them were still a. S. U. Students as well. And we were going 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:38.707 to do to, 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:44.876 we're gonna do uh Bernie Schuler was going to be our main live open heart 00:15:44.909 --> 00:15:49.756 surgery. But there's another person whose name I forget and he said I 00:15:49.789 --> 00:15:57.789 would forget it. Who is our practice show the day before. And 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:06.639 it uh it involved everyone at the station. Everyone 00:16:06.740 --> 00:16:11.057 who wanted to be in their hometown paper or on their hometown radio 00:16:11.090 --> 00:16:14.006 station signed up 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.606 because there was more press than we could handle. 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:23.776 So when the Watertown newspaper called one in an interview about the open 00:16:23.809 --> 00:16:31.809 heart surgery, roger tennis from Watertown new york gave them ah what was 00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:38.386 the person I interviewed and all of this give you more publicity than if 00:16:38.419 --> 00:16:44.006 they at all, you know, interview the surgeon. 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:52.039 But again it was like all of these other things, a minimal expense. And 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:59.907 and it went very well and I only lost my temper once 00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:06.707 and I really lost it. We had a plan, we came back after the operation 00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:10.877 to show Bernie schuler waking up. We want, we want to reassure people that 00:17:10.910 --> 00:17:15.677 he was okay and one of the engineers decided that wasn't interesting and 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:20.006 he didn't record it that was live 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:25.377 and it introduced breakfast television uh, in great Britain and they have 00:17:25.410 --> 00:17:30.877 never been allowed by charter to have a today show and they have a black 00:17:30.910 --> 00:17:36.996 sense of humor. So they went to this live and it was seen in Japan and the 00:17:37.029 --> 00:17:44.627 CBC carried, it was a huge deal and 00:17:44.660 --> 00:17:47.687 and I went down you were sitting in the shop or some place next to the 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.256 control room. I said what do you think? And you said something like I 00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:59.907 didn't realize you were actually going to cut him or something like that 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:05.506 and yes, but we're gonna sew him up until we get to that part of it. And 00:18:05.539 --> 00:18:09.357 uh, I, I think that really turned out awfully well I don't think we knew 00:18:09.390 --> 00:18:16.766 at the time that each one of us would end up with a bypass of our own. We 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:23.367 were going to a broadcaster's meeting in Tucson And we're on the 87, yes, 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:30.647 we're on Arizona 87 and I said, you know Florence is over there with the 00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:34.887 state prison and I've had this idea for another live show. How about an 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:40.336 execution and now the state cars 00:18:40.369 --> 00:18:48.276 and he's got this, Please don't. He didn't say you can't, please don't. 00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:55.907 And I said, but bob I covered an execution when I was a radio 00:18:55.940 --> 00:19:02.707 working for care iz after after I got the first exclusive 00:19:02.740 --> 00:19:08.427 phone interview with Fidel Castro, the first one ever done it was on K 00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:15.177 rising. No, another one of my mad ideas that didn't cost anything that got 00:19:15.210 --> 00:19:18.006 a lot of publicity. 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.006 Ah 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.907 they sent me to cover a an execution 00:19:24.940 --> 00:19:32.940 and several radio people passed out. Mm hmm. And 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:39.107 so Warren chair Gino, I did his report. He was with Kpho. He was a student. 00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:47.140 I did his report warrant true. You know, and lovely Florence Arizona. 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:51.707 The last words were happening 00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:53.907 and 00:19:53.940 --> 00:20:01.607 having having eggs for little secrets that's got loser. 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.786 The thing is that at that time and they had a cute little red brick house. 00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:09.887 The only thing with a little grass around it and it had Xena's around him 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:15.306 and I colored Xena's and inside there was 00:20:15.339 --> 00:20:23.197 this thing that looked like a space capsule and the guy to be executed was 00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:29.006 inside of that and they would roll the cyanide pellets underneath. 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:36.006 Families would come up and then there's like a control room glass wall 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:40.816 about a foot from it. And the last minute they opened the doors, the fumes 00:20:40.849 --> 00:20:44.826 are coming up and shove everyone in there. Well you're just knows it's 00:20:44.859 --> 00:20:48.947 just about the break. You've been pushed against this. And then someone 00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:53.907 would say probably someone who worked for the prison. I could smell gas. 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:59.536 Sure it's odorless. But then someone, oh my God, we've got to get out of 00:20:59.569 --> 00:21:05.927 here. Somebody else and somebody else goes. And I mean it was a mess. I 00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:10.707 interviewed all of the locals. They had to have by law. So many witnesses. 00:21:10.740 --> 00:21:15.697 And the locals came every morning for a free breakfast in case someone 00:21:15.730 --> 00:21:20.917 didn't show up. They would become one of the legal observers. But you 00:21:20.950 --> 00:21:25.417 turned me down on that. You didn't turn me down. You didn't say no. And 00:21:25.450 --> 00:21:30.407 you said please. And you know, we had done so many wonderful things 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:37.006 together. My mind like a pebble skipping across the pond went on to 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:43.907 something else. I never looked, never really regretted not doing it. 00:21:43.940 --> 00:21:49.207 Did I ever take the proposal for 00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.306 the sex change operation? 00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:56.806 Oh, that was another one. 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:59.407 You know, I 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:06.506 I that did not work for us because it really takes place over 00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:10.756 at the time, over a couple of years at the time, all the surgery, all the 00:22:10.789 --> 00:22:13.306 plastic surgery 00:22:13.339 --> 00:22:20.006 and it was being done up in Cortez colorado. And 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:24.427 it just was, it was just and I didn't think my mind could stay on the same 00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:30.869 program for two years. That was another another problem. So I saw that too. 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:34.839 Discovery. And eventually they did it not live. They did it. Well, see 00:22:38.609 --> 00:22:41.107 they bought 00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:48.306 the knee operation from us. They bought, um, by the 00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:52.607 and 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.776 offered me instead of money their vasectomy. 00:22:56.809 --> 00:23:02.157 I turned that down. It's money out here. It's money. We don't want any 00:23:02.190 --> 00:23:09.707 small amounts. I always liked her enormously. In fact, 00:23:09.740 --> 00:23:12.607 years later 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:18.996 I'm, I'm the mogul running Channel eight. No, I'm programming channel it 00:23:19.029 --> 00:23:26.217 and bob is at some meeting as usual. He liked meetings. I didn't, so I had 00:23:26.250 --> 00:23:31.107 to go meet with mrs Gammage at the Foundation. 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:35.907 And and the discussion is what, 00:23:35.940 --> 00:23:42.967 well I realized he's sick, but he's not a full professor. So I think the 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:47.726 size of card that would be appropriate would be and that's what the 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:52.756 meeting was consisted of what size card and it was a funeral. How long 00:23:52.789 --> 00:23:57.566 have they been here? Because there was no real money to work with? But 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:03.407 this, this exercise went forward to, we were going to have good manners as 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.707 an institution 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:11.107 and one year 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:13.826 I don't, I don't, I don't know. I think everyone chipped in and paid for 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:18.207 the car. It just got too tortuous. But she started the foundation as I 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:20.306 remember. 00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:26.407 Is that right? And 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:33.107 and we were doing, I I was coming along with the open heart surgery 00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:37.736 and she talked to you about it and I think you said there was gonna be a 00:24:37.769 --> 00:24:41.607 problem with money maybe. 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.006 And I believe she then 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:49.207 went to Prescott to see Florence Thalheimer 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:53.207 and she wrote the check for it. 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.506 Am I remembering this wrong? 00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:05.006 Well, we've got to go into the final, that career, We're 12 years is 00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:10.026 general manager of the station after I left, I never wanted to be general 00:25:10.059 --> 00:25:12.927 manager. 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:18.607 I really, I think that's the most irritated, 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:24.157 I think that's the most irritated you ever made me because I was a 00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:28.107 brilliant program director 00:25:28.140 --> 00:25:34.026 and I had a real nice freelance practice of doing specials for PBS, the 00:25:34.059 --> 00:25:42.059 Tennessee Ernie ford thing and the first um, mormon Tabernacle Choir ah 00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:49.647 special and I was really quite happy. I mean I didn't, I had this terrific 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:55.006 variety and then you threatened me with administration 00:25:55.039 --> 00:26:00.697 and, and I, 00:26:00.730 --> 00:26:05.806 and the only thing that really convinced me 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:11.746 To take the job was one I saw the kind of people, 00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:18.897 yes, could I could I know and then was that there was a guy from Eureka 00:26:18.930 --> 00:26:25.306 who, who, who brought down a scrapbook with pictures of his desk, pictures 00:26:25.339 --> 00:26:33.339 of your desk, geez, this is my window, this is my file cabinet, I can't 00:26:33.430 --> 00:26:39.726 work for that. And and they didn't get better. They just, it was just, 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:44.607 there are times when I thought you found all of these freaks. Sure, you 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.006 know, somewhere 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:55.039 two uh frightened me into into taking the job. Um but then I also came to 00:26:56.980 --> 00:27:03.707 me, you know, if I take the job, I can approve all of my wacky ideas, 00:27:03.740 --> 00:27:08.806 you know, this doesn't even go into abscam and all of the other things 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:14.407 that went into 00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:17.059 a wonderful career.