Now it's 1980
and I'm at Stoffer B
and you're asking me if I can afford
18 5 something, Something like that. It wasn't quite 20 round was it? I
don't think so
but it's okay. I had saved my entire life had been on the company
and I ask you what your aspirations were
And you know what your wishes for Channel eight. Well you'd like you'd
like to beat Chicago an audience someday because you really like this guy
that manages it but he gets too much attention and they kind of ignore all
of us in the smaller markets. You know you're on the PBS board and it
sounded like Bill McCarter and the Chicago people are sitting at the adult
table and people in market 35 college station they're over. Okay what else
? Well we've got this program I'm worried about
30 minutes. I can't remember the name of it. Arizona Arizona weekly it was
supposed to be a Channel 8s version of 60 minutes only at 30 minutes and
they never made more than 20 minutes sometimes 14 minutes. Oh jesus. And
ah
you know this is an ideal place for me at that time. Many people I had
gone to school with or grown up with or have been in the boy scouts with
were in the legislature
and
ah
you know Arizona Weekly just just was so unreliable. They all wanted to
work at the New times
and they would hide secret files all over Channel A and it had rained on
the roof leaked on the second floor and we came to work one day and there
was a whole in the soundproofing like this. It had gotten so full of water.
It tore the secret files were coming through.
Oh God! And
And at the same time the university wanted to be on Channel eight. More
Channel eight was a very popular station at a very good audience, had a
terrific reputation. And um um
so I eventually I canceled it and and put in Horizon ah with the idea that
it could be more current and that it wouldn't spend a lot of time exposing
people, especially people around the university appropriation committee
that was never popular
and and yet a place that a professor who had made a breakthrough and
something could appear uh and and be treated intelligently
and it was a pure A s you show the crew is all students.
Michael Grant, a young up and coming lawyer was the house and I think we
were able to solve most of your problems. I think Horizon did a lot of
wonderful things. It made history with the university benefited from. uh
we were going to go on the air in 1981
and then Goldwater gets a Supreme Court nomination for Sandra O'Connor
and I call PBS to find out when the televised hearings will be because
they televise all kinds of confirmation hearings. Well, she's from Arizona.
Don't take this personally. But
you know, we're just, I don't think anyone knows who she is out here. Oh
it was awful. I was really
tell me
I'm from the sewer mm And
so I went in and yelled the usual at you. Something must be done,
something must be done. That's one of the few things about this state.
That's not an embarrassment. It's not a polo tie and so why don't we do
it? And you had that if you can pay for it I think we can do it.
And
so uh
somebody's from Los Angeles other places gave me a lot of leads. So the
first thing we we uh we got was the exclusive use of the only television
microwave out of the Senate hearing chambers. There's only one and once it
is assigned nobody can move. So I got that piece of it
um
which meant c span had to negotiate with me to carry it out of state. Um
per diem at the time would not cover any Washington D. C. Hotel or motel.
So we had a problem with our producer Rick Wilson and Grant, you know how
are we going to pay for
ah their expenses because they weren't famous at the time. And
but eventually we found a way around that and then ah
it was in our schedule we had our producer we had Michael Grant but this
meant that we had to delay horizons debut because we didn't have enough
people to do both and
we were missing a satellite. I forgot a satellite
so Detroit has been trying to hire me. So I flew off to see Dave caldwell
in new york and in Detroit and
he had a talk show. I can't remember the guy who ah
I can't remember the guy who did the talk show. It was carried by a number
of stations and so he had satellite time independent of PBS and PBS had no
interest in this. Who is this? I mean we called W E T A. They don't know
that Sandra O'Connor person. Mm hmm.
So
this is kind of getting around the office at PBS and leaking out.
Mm hmm. I get a call from the new york Times
New york times says, are you really going to carry this? Yes, every minute
of it, no matter how many weeks it takes. Well tell us about this person.
I'm a, I'm a born texas walks to Arizona raised on a ranch. Um,
tough, fair crotchety.
Um,
and I said, well you know, we can't find out from W A. T. When it's going
to be on the air here. And I thought it's not, what do you mean? It's not
,
don't they realize how big this is. This is the first woman ever
nominated
to the Supreme Court. So these, these hearings are really important.
Well you'll have to get a statement from PBS about that.
They call it PBS, the new york times wants to know. And then before they
can come up with something, the post is on the phone, they don't quite
understand why you don't think this is important. And Katharine Graham
personally wants to know what your answer is. Oh my God, the owner of the
Washington post and newsweek.
And it takes so little, it takes so little to blow a media mind around. So
they're suddenly on the phone, they now understand and they have room,
they have room for Sandra O'Connor and they want to carry it with paul
Duke who is the they're they're Washington week in review moderator. Well
known in journalistic circles. And he'll just do a wonderful job. And you
won't have to ask what's his name to fly out here.
I don't know. We've gone too far. And his name is Michael Grant and he is
going to moderate these hearings. And that's just all there is to it.
Well, you can't tell us, no, we're in trouble
and you're in trouble. Well, do your own coverage. We can't. You've got
the microwave assignment.
Well, maybe we could take the pictures and put on our own commentary.
Oh, geez, I said this is worse than when I re created a baseball game in
college
using live play by play with, with a game board with a little
baseball players. I don't remember. I know you don't tell audio sports. It
was the first time your name was in broadcast magazine. I believe the
technician, you were included for you not. Thank you. So, uh
then, you know, W. E. T. A. Calls and everyone just in tears that they
just see them being selves being burned alive and being thrown into the
streets because if the new york times doesn't approve it and the
Washington post and this is Graham personally wants to know. And so I said
, okay, um,
why don't we do this? Uh, will originate the broadcast.
Michael Grant will be the the lead um
commentator,
paul Duke may assist him and I will speak to Mr Duke about assisting as
opposed to shoving out of the way. And and you will pay us for it
and you will pay all of the costs. And then it could be big. This this
could be 40,000, probably 30 something. I don't remember anything,
anything and no receipts. We don't want to get into collecting cab
receipts and stuff. We're getting too close to air. No, we'll just give
you a check
and then they'll be to calls the same thing For another 35. We will put
your name on it
under hours at the end of it. And paul Duke was terrific.
Took grant out on the town. They just became fast buddies. And uh they
they were wonderful together on the air and it was a terrific telecast. It
got wonderful reviews. Uh and and the important newspapers of the world
and PBS bacon was saved and the little station that could without anything
did something that was, I still think it was important and was the kind of
thing that college station can do when a commercial station you can't you
just can't get all the commercials in and and it's not that they I
wouldn't want to it's just not possible to think about doing those things.
Um But you know life was going to get bigger than that. I think the make
of impeachment was bigger. The heart operation. Why I tell you what we're
gonna do, meek, I'm alive. Yeah. And we're going to do all of it
170 and a half hours of live television. It went on for weeks. It went on
for weeks. I mean, we look like the Mickum station. Well you did something
that was special though, you told the commercial stations in town they
could take any part of it. We're going to but we wanted to be the station
interesting and they paid the bills and they put up the equipment and they
could go live to it anytime used as much as they wanted to. And I think we
share joint awards over it, which was fine to me that's where the station
belonged, able to facilitate things with the broadcasting community and um
and playing an important role in the life of
of of phoenix. Your best quote I think is the one from the open heart
surgery. Just like we're going to do the first televised open heart
surgery. I wanted to do this in Los Angeles but I couldn't because there
were influential people from U. C. L. A. Medical school and USC on the
board and it wasn't discussed but I had learned a lot about how to do
televised surgery because in L. A. We had another channel that did
surgery every day, every surgery you can think of only it was coded so
that a regular receiver couldn't receive it. Um
And we got together with ted Dietrich and figured out how we would do it.
I'm going to use all students from from our crew.
Um
and some of them were still a. S. U. Students as well. And we were going
to do to,
we're gonna do uh Bernie Schuler was going to be our main live open heart
surgery. But there's another person whose name I forget and he said I
would forget it. Who is our practice show the day before. And
it uh it involved everyone at the station. Everyone
who wanted to be in their hometown paper or on their hometown radio
station signed up
because there was more press than we could handle.
So when the Watertown newspaper called one in an interview about the open
heart surgery, roger tennis from Watertown new york gave them ah what was
the person I interviewed and all of this give you more publicity than if
they at all, you know, interview the surgeon.
But again it was like all of these other things, a minimal expense. And
and it went very well and I only lost my temper once
and I really lost it. We had a plan, we came back after the operation
to show Bernie schuler waking up. We want, we want to reassure people that
he was okay and one of the engineers decided that wasn't interesting and
he didn't record it that was live
and it introduced breakfast television uh, in great Britain and they have
never been allowed by charter to have a today show and they have a black
sense of humor. So they went to this live and it was seen in Japan and the
CBC carried, it was a huge deal and
and I went down you were sitting in the shop or some place next to the
control room. I said what do you think? And you said something like I
didn't realize you were actually going to cut him or something like that
and yes, but we're gonna sew him up until we get to that part of it. And
uh, I, I think that really turned out awfully well I don't think we knew
at the time that each one of us would end up with a bypass of our own. We
were going to a broadcaster's meeting in Tucson And we're on the 87, yes,
we're on Arizona 87 and I said, you know Florence is over there with the
state prison and I've had this idea for another live show. How about an
execution and now the state cars
and he's got this, Please don't. He didn't say you can't, please don't.
And I said, but bob I covered an execution when I was a radio
working for care iz after after I got the first exclusive
phone interview with Fidel Castro, the first one ever done it was on K
rising. No, another one of my mad ideas that didn't cost anything that got
a lot of publicity.
Ah
they sent me to cover a an execution
and several radio people passed out. Mm hmm. And
so Warren chair Gino, I did his report. He was with Kpho. He was a student.
I did his report warrant true. You know, and lovely Florence Arizona.
The last words were happening
and
having having eggs for little secrets that's got loser.
The thing is that at that time and they had a cute little red brick house.
The only thing with a little grass around it and it had Xena's around him
and I colored Xena's and inside there was
this thing that looked like a space capsule and the guy to be executed was
inside of that and they would roll the cyanide pellets underneath.
Families would come up and then there's like a control room glass wall
about a foot from it. And the last minute they opened the doors, the fumes
are coming up and shove everyone in there. Well you're just knows it's
just about the break. You've been pushed against this. And then someone
would say probably someone who worked for the prison. I could smell gas.
Sure it's odorless. But then someone, oh my God, we've got to get out of
here. Somebody else and somebody else goes. And I mean it was a mess. I
interviewed all of the locals. They had to have by law. So many witnesses.
And the locals came every morning for a free breakfast in case someone
didn't show up. They would become one of the legal observers. But you
turned me down on that. You didn't turn me down. You didn't say no. And
you said please. And you know, we had done so many wonderful things
together. My mind like a pebble skipping across the pond went on to
something else. I never looked, never really regretted not doing it.
Did I ever take the proposal for
the sex change operation?
Oh, that was another one.
You know, I
I that did not work for us because it really takes place over
at the time, over a couple of years at the time, all the surgery, all the
plastic surgery
and it was being done up in Cortez colorado. And
it just was, it was just and I didn't think my mind could stay on the same
program for two years. That was another another problem. So I saw that too.
Discovery. And eventually they did it not live. They did it. Well, see
they bought
the knee operation from us. They bought, um, by the
and
offered me instead of money their vasectomy.
I turned that down. It's money out here. It's money. We don't want any
small amounts. I always liked her enormously. In fact,
years later
I'm, I'm the mogul running Channel eight. No, I'm programming channel it
and bob is at some meeting as usual. He liked meetings. I didn't, so I had
to go meet with mrs Gammage at the Foundation.
And and the discussion is what,
well I realized he's sick, but he's not a full professor. So I think the
size of card that would be appropriate would be and that's what the
meeting was consisted of what size card and it was a funeral. How long
have they been here? Because there was no real money to work with? But
this, this exercise went forward to, we were going to have good manners as
an institution
and one year
I don't, I don't, I don't know. I think everyone chipped in and paid for
the car. It just got too tortuous. But she started the foundation as I
remember.
Is that right? And
and we were doing, I I was coming along with the open heart surgery
and she talked to you about it and I think you said there was gonna be a
problem with money maybe.
And I believe she then
went to Prescott to see Florence Thalheimer
and she wrote the check for it.
Am I remembering this wrong?
Well, we've got to go into the final, that career, We're 12 years is
general manager of the station after I left, I never wanted to be general
manager.
I really, I think that's the most irritated,
I think that's the most irritated you ever made me because I was a
brilliant program director
and I had a real nice freelance practice of doing specials for PBS, the
Tennessee Ernie ford thing and the first um, mormon Tabernacle Choir ah
special and I was really quite happy. I mean I didn't, I had this terrific
variety and then you threatened me with administration
and, and I,
and the only thing that really convinced me
To take the job was one I saw the kind of people,
yes, could I could I know and then was that there was a guy from Eureka
who, who, who brought down a scrapbook with pictures of his desk, pictures
of your desk, geez, this is my window, this is my file cabinet, I can't
work for that. And and they didn't get better. They just, it was just,
there are times when I thought you found all of these freaks. Sure, you
know, somewhere
two uh frightened me into into taking the job. Um but then I also came to
me, you know, if I take the job, I can approve all of my wacky ideas,
you know, this doesn't even go into abscam and all of the other things
that went into
a wonderful career.