WEBVTT 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:07.740 let's go back and talk about the genesis of the Cronkite name and where 00:00:10.529 --> 00:00:15.707 that started, how we got it. Okay, well, you know, there there there. And 00:00:15.740 --> 00:00:19.256 as we age, all of our memories get a little fuzzier. I think I have a 00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:23.896 reasonably vivid recall of this. And even though there, there might be 00:00:23.929 --> 00:00:28.627 many different versions floating around out there. But the genesis of this 00:00:28.660 --> 00:00:33.737 really was when a group of downtown uh media professionals and executives 00:00:33.770 --> 00:00:39.516 got together, uh it must have been about 1981 or two. Or they started 00:00:39.549 --> 00:00:44.396 thinking about it and informed and actually incorporated the Cronkite 00:00:44.429 --> 00:00:51.667 Endowment board of trustees. And these were people, you know, at the time 00:00:51.700 --> 00:00:57.667 , it hadn't been named, it was eventually was named that and thus the 00:00:57.700 --> 00:01:01.537 Cronkite type. But they wanted to form an endowment. Yeah, thank you for 00:01:01.570 --> 00:01:06.587 that clarification don They wanted to form an endowment to raise money. Uh 00:01:06.620 --> 00:01:11.576 , modest aspirations at the time. But keep in mind that fundraising was at 00:01:11.609 --> 00:01:16.876 an embryonic stage. Virtually all public universities in America at that 00:01:16.909 --> 00:01:22.766 time. So this was really an early foray into that. And this group of 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:27.546 downtown professionals saw potential in what was then the Department of 00:01:27.579 --> 00:01:31.406 Mass Communication. And 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:36.876 they were interested in raising money or trying to raise money that would 00:01:36.909 --> 00:01:42.676 help the program with private resources, achieve its potential beyond that 00:01:42.709 --> 00:01:46.637 , which it otherwise might be able to. That was department leadership 00:01:46.670 --> 00:01:49.736 involved in that at that time. It wasn't, it wasn't involved at that time 00:01:49.769 --> 00:01:53.046 . I don't think that, I mean, L Dean would have gone to those meetings, 00:01:53.079 --> 00:02:01.079 I'm sure. But but but but it's really the power came from that group, 00:02:01.329 --> 00:02:06.477 Downtown and Bill show over who was the vice? Uh he was the Director of 00:02:06.510 --> 00:02:10.577 Public Affairs at the Arizona Republic. And there for, you know, at least 00:02:10.610 --> 00:02:15.346 three decades was was one of the main players. They're always behind the 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:20.196 scenes. There were other media leaders on that. Obviously Eldeen 00:02:20.229 --> 00:02:24.207 represented the school very, very well, or the department very, very well 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:28.797 within that group and someone among the group. But one of those meetings 00:02:28.830 --> 00:02:33.717 that wouldn't it be wonderful if we had the name a name to put on the 00:02:33.750 --> 00:02:39.617 Endowment, the endowment board. And so they started kicking around some 00:02:39.650 --> 00:02:42.517 names of journalists and keep in mind there were a few schools of 00:02:42.550 --> 00:02:45.497 journalism around the country that had names on them at that time. The 00:02:45.530 --> 00:02:50.166 William Allen White School of Journalism at Kansas, the Medill School of 00:02:50.199 --> 00:02:56.367 Journalism at Northwestern and and a few others. So, and so they came up 00:02:56.400 --> 00:03:01.606 with some names, and walter Cronkite's name was among them. And Bill Show 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:09.639 over suggested that Tom chauncey make the call to Mr Cronkite to see if he 00:03:09.699 --> 00:03:14.946 would allow his name to be affixed to the Endowment board. And the reason 00:03:14.979 --> 00:03:18.577 that he asked tom chauncey to do that was that chauncey had been a 00:03:18.610 --> 00:03:22.767 longtime friend of walter Cronkite's now by that time, you know, thousands 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.747 of people would have said they were friends with walter Cronkite and 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:29.807 probably thousands of them were, but 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:35.807 uh tom chauncey really was, and it was primarily for this reason, I think 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:41.837 uh tom chancy and Gene Autry were the founding owners of Channel 10, which 00:03:41.870 --> 00:03:47.457 was then a CBS affiliate back in, I think it was 1951 and by the Middle 00:03:47.490 --> 00:03:53.916 1960s, Tom Chauncey, but you know, who, you know, round the station owned 00:03:53.949 --> 00:03:59.177 the station uh was the president of the CBS board of affiliates, which 00:03:59.210 --> 00:04:04.967 would carry some cash. And it was the middle of 1960s. And about that time 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:11.077 , uh some major advertisers were putting pressure on CBS corporate as well 00:04:11.110 --> 00:04:16.837 as some of the affiliates for what they perceived to be the increasingly 00:04:16.870 --> 00:04:23.746 liberal tilt of the news division, including the CBS Evening news with 00:04:23.779 --> 00:04:30.527 walter Cronkite as as the Vietnam war coverage was was was was picking up 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.846 during that period. And tom chauncey, the businessman, Tom chauncey was 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:39.976 not a journalist. Tom chauncey, the businessman. Nevertheless, as that 00:04:40.009 --> 00:04:45.286 pressure came to bear made it clear, and I've heard Mr Cronkite tell this 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:49.897 story many times made it clear that the news division was to remain 00:04:49.930 --> 00:04:56.277 independent reporting without fear or favor and is immune from this type 00:04:56.310 --> 00:05:01.996 of external pressure as possible. And I I heard walter on more than one 00:05:02.029 --> 00:05:09.296 occasion say that Tom chauncey almost single handedly made that clear uh 00:05:09.329 --> 00:05:13.356 to the to the board of affiliates as well as as corporate, so they really 00:05:13.389 --> 00:05:17.967 were friends. So, anyhow, Tom chauncey makes the call to walter asked him 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:22.757 if he would and walter would have only relatively recently, uh, stepped 00:05:22.790 --> 00:05:28.996 down as The, as the anchor of the CBS evening news with Walter Cronkite. I 00:05:29.029 --> 00:05:35.736 mean, he signed off in March of 1981 at age 65, so he was still very, very 00:05:35.769 --> 00:05:41.007 much in his prime and by then it would have been in his late 60s, I guess. 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:44.676 And but he asked, he asked Mr chauncey, well, what do I have to do? And 00:05:44.709 --> 00:05:47.996 chauncey said, nothing would just like to have you put your name, That 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:51.277 might be an oversimplification. But that, that was the story I got from 00:05:51.310 --> 00:05:55.106 those guys. Uh, we'd like to put your name on the endowment board said, 00:05:55.139 --> 00:06:01.517 great. The board considered that and someone, and I don't know that I ever 00:06:01.550 --> 00:06:07.457 knew or if anybody even remembers said boy, if he's willing to put his 00:06:07.490 --> 00:06:12.627 name on the endowment board, I wonder if he would be willing to put his 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:17.346 name on the unit. And I really don't know how this happened, what the, 00:06:17.379 --> 00:06:22.726 what the, who the parties were in the room. But, but going to, uh, I think 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:26.676 Russ what nelson would have been here as president by then. And what were 00:06:26.709 --> 00:06:34.517 the odds of elevating this program from a department to a school and doing 00:06:34.550 --> 00:06:41.906 so if Mr Cronkite would be willing to affix his name to the school and the 00:06:41.939 --> 00:06:48.277 green light was given on that. And so uh Mr chauncey called Mr Cronkite 00:06:48.310 --> 00:06:54.116 back and said thanks for saying yes to being on the endowment, your name 00:06:54.149 --> 00:06:59.957 on the endowment board. But if the university were to elevate the program 00:06:59.990 --> 00:07:02.967 from the department to a school and believe me it was a name only. I 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.746 always used to say even though we got great support here, but we have the 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:10.356 resources of the department, the status of the school and the expectations 00:07:10.389 --> 00:07:15.236 of a college. And we always we always tried very hard to live up to that. 00:07:15.269 --> 00:07:20.406 But anyhow, uh walter said, well let me think about that. But got back to 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:28.166 Mr chauncey pretty quickly and said indeed he would be uh willing to have 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:33.317 his name affixed to the school with the caveat that he would always want 00:07:33.350 --> 00:07:41.306 journalism to be part of the name of the of the program. And 00:07:41.339 --> 00:07:45.627 The rest as they say is history and the region's approved it in 1984. And 00:07:45.660 --> 00:07:51.906 the first Cronkite luncheon was held in the fall of 1984. But the answer 00:07:51.939 --> 00:07:57.577 that I heard walter give many times when I posed that question why a. S. U. 00:07:57.610 --> 00:08:02.217 Because walter Cronkite was not a college graduate. He had gone to the uh 00:08:02.250 --> 00:08:07.106 studied at the University of Texas at Austin for two years and then went 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:10.806 to work for United Press covered World War Two came back already a 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:13.697 nationally prominent journalist. So what's he gonna do? Go back for two 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:18.087 years during his baccalaureate degree. So, you know, so he obviously his 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:23.036 ascension really began at that time. Uh he did have lots of friends in 00:08:23.069 --> 00:08:29.567 texas, but when posed the question why Arizona State, he would always have 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:33.116 this little pregnant pause and then he would say Arizona State was the 00:08:33.149 --> 00:08:37.496 first to ask. So the answer to the question is, Arizona State was the 00:08:37.529 --> 00:08:45.529 first to ask. And tom chauncey made the ask pretty much that simple. 00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:52.787 Now, when did you come in as as chair at that time in this chronology? 00:08:52.820 --> 00:08:56.776 Well, by then, so when it became a school then, Elden was made the 00:08:56.809 --> 00:09:02.756 director of the school And that would have been in 1984. And L. Dean's 00:09:02.789 --> 00:09:08.526 last decided to go back to the faculty during the 1980s or prior to the 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:10.726 1986, 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:16.067 school year. And uh and so the school kicked off the national search that 00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:24.100 I that I mentioned earlier. And So my appointment was effective on July 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:27.707 one 00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:30.006 1987 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:33.496 and L Dean couldn't have been more supportive. I remember going in and 00:09:33.529 --> 00:09:36.866 saying, you know what, when there are certain things do and everything, 00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:43.467 you know, you just so supportive and and probably, you know, a little bit 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.827 relieved to know that he'd done a terrific job and he was gonna get he 00:09:46.860 --> 00:09:52.106 would just go back to the faculty and but but there were some challenges 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:58.646 then, and Uh the national accreditation team had come in here in the, 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:06.679 during the 1986, school year. And uh, and recommended uh, provisional re 00:10:06.970 --> 00:10:12.197 accreditation for the Cronkite school. There were 12 accrediting standards. 00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:16.307 And as I will and you would either be found in compliance or 00:10:16.340 --> 00:10:20.467 noncompliance on each of the 12 standards. And then there would be a 00:10:20.500 --> 00:10:24.907 recommendation made by the site visit team. And that recommendation would 00:10:24.940 --> 00:10:28.526 go forward to the national accrediting committee and then it's 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:32.827 recommendation along with that of the site team, would go forward to the 00:10:32.860 --> 00:10:37.226 National Accrediting Council that would meet in May. The committee always 00:10:37.259 --> 00:10:40.917 met in March. The council met in May and the job of the committee. And the 00:10:40.950 --> 00:10:44.807 council was obviously to consider the recommendations by all of the site 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.236 teams who had made all of the visits to the, you know, the 15 or 20 00:10:48.269 --> 00:10:51.846 programs in that year that would have been under review. There were about 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:56.917 100 accredited programs at the time. So In any given year, 15-20 would be 00:10:56.950 --> 00:11:04.646 evaluated. We were on and remain on six year review cycles. And so found 00:11:04.679 --> 00:11:10.807 in non compliance on either three or maybe four of the standards and 00:11:10.840 --> 00:11:14.736 all the while knowing many of the strengths of the program, but almost all 00:11:14.769 --> 00:11:22.769 , not all, not, almost all of the shortcomings really could be traced to 00:11:23.950 --> 00:11:28.986 the level of resources and, and, and I say that and I've been active in 00:11:29.019 --> 00:11:33.437 the accrediting process in our field since 1990 a quarter of a century. 00:11:33.470 --> 00:11:39.297 And that body has always, and we continue to pride ourselves and, and 00:11:39.330 --> 00:11:42.817 linda would know how different bodies would come in and look at different 00:11:42.850 --> 00:11:47.717 professional programs. This body has never been prescriptive and it never 00:11:47.750 --> 00:11:51.146 ever would come in and hold a program hostage. You know, they need, you 00:11:51.179 --> 00:11:55.837 know, 17 more books in the library and 92 more square feet of office space 00:11:55.870 --> 00:12:00.907 and so on. It's not that kind of group, but but the program was was so 00:12:00.940 --> 00:12:06.177 under resourced at the time that, you know, that's why it's just amazing 00:12:06.210 --> 00:12:12.197 that El Deen held things together so well during those, during that, that 00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:16.506 early period of time. And 00:12:16.539 --> 00:12:19.356 and the standards were just about what you would expect. Mission 00:12:19.389 --> 00:12:23.726 governance, administration curriculum, full time faculty, part time 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:31.457 faculty uh scholarship student services, academic advising and so on. Uh 00:12:31.490 --> 00:12:37.657 public service, both externally and internally. Uh just just about what 00:12:37.690 --> 00:12:42.986 you would expect. And so we we we certainly had problems with two or three 00:12:43.019 --> 00:12:48.197 of those standards, primarily the size of the faculty at the time. We must 00:12:48.230 --> 00:12:52.697 have had eight or 900 students and still had 14 full time faculty members. 00:12:52.730 --> 00:12:59.746 And so uh that was the recommendation of the site team. And uh that was 00:12:59.779 --> 00:13:04.246 also the recommendation of the national committee and when the council met 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:09.366 in early May, that was its decision and provisional, there are three 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:12.626 things that can happen in the accrediting process full re accreditation, 00:13:12.659 --> 00:13:16.236 which means you go merrily about your way until you are reviewed six years 00:13:16.269 --> 00:13:21.807 later. Provisional accreditation, which means that the program has 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:26.437 substantial strengths but it has certain specified deficiencies that are 00:13:26.470 --> 00:13:30.976 serious enough that it does not warrant a full re accreditation, but those 00:13:31.009 --> 00:13:35.177 deficiencies can be addressed in a one year period now, it's two years, 00:13:35.210 --> 00:13:38.526 but back then it was one year and the third possibility of course is 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:44.167 denial of accreditation. And uh so this was a provisional and we had a 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:51.646 year to fix things and uh ah you can either hang your head at that or or 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:57.516 look at that as as an opportunity. And uh I can uh it must have been in 00:13:57.549 --> 00:14:05.549 june Uh it was before I officially started on July one and I regard this. 00:14:06.139 --> 00:14:09.886 It's one of you have probably been, you know, some turning points in the 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:15.197 evolution of the program over the years. This certainly was one of them. 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:22.006 And except for the naming, maybe the most important one, at least for that 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:27.386 period of time I was summoned to a meeting and Russ nelson's office, 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:30.047 probably the first time I've ever maybe had been there before. But I think 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:32.976 probably the first time I'd ever been in the President's office and there 00:14:33.009 --> 00:14:38.057 were two central administrators at that meeting and nick Henry as the Dean 00:14:38.090 --> 00:14:44.496 of the College of Public programs And rest. So I'm 39 years old in, in the 00:14:44.529 --> 00:14:52.529 office for one of my first times, uh, great respect and uh, envy of the, 00:14:52.539 --> 00:14:56.146 the background knowledge of all of the people in the room with the 00:14:56.179 --> 00:15:01.486 exception probably of me and Russ just sort of said, ok, we've got this 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:08.886 provisional ah accreditation that we're going to have to deal with from 00:15:08.919 --> 00:15:13.467 the accrediting body, you know, ideas anyone. And one of the central 00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:17.557 administrators said, why do we need to be accredited? Were the Cronkite 00:15:17.590 --> 00:15:19.606 school? 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:24.866 My heart beat even faster at that than it did when the dean asked me, why 00:15:24.899 --> 00:15:30.386 would this place want to hire someone like you and, and then someone else 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:35.047 sort of chimed in on that. Yeah, why, why do we need to be nationally 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:41.717 accredited? We are the Cronkite school. Well, we were in name and uh, but 00:15:41.750 --> 00:15:46.547 uh, and, and so this went on and I have, having been raised in that small 00:15:46.580 --> 00:15:50.736 town in Nebraska, you know, you speak when spoken to and at a certain 00:15:50.769 --> 00:15:54.677 point in this conversation, Russ just looked at me and said, doug, what do 00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:58.596 you think? And I said, I'm sure I said something like, well, you know, I 00:15:58.629 --> 00:16:03.067 respect all the opinions that have been articulated here, but I think 00:16:03.100 --> 00:16:09.437 these are all very doable things and quite frankly that's not gonna help 00:16:09.470 --> 00:16:14.986 our standing. I mean, do you want to be on the list with Northwestern in 00:16:15.019 --> 00:16:20.846 north Carolina in Nebraska and Columbia or do you want to be on the list 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:26.837 with Montana State and North Dakota State and uh, no matter what names on 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:31.636 your school. And then he says, well, what do you think that would take to 00:16:31.669 --> 00:16:34.697 address these things? And I said, and I had, I had looked at all of the 00:16:34.730 --> 00:16:38.927 things and I said, you know, we can deal with all of these things. And you 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:44.276 know, I've never been a negotiator and my daughters tell me that if 00:16:44.309 --> 00:16:51.116 someone says, you know, I'll give you, you know, $50 for, for that, that 00:16:51.149 --> 00:16:56.746 book, I'll say, well, you know what, why don't you just give me 25. So I'm 00:16:56.779 --> 00:17:01.717 not much of a negotiator, but I said, you know, we really are. You know, 00:17:01.750 --> 00:17:05.937 if you apply any metric, you know, I doubt if there's any program at this 00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:10.907 university with 800 majors and 14 faculty members and you know, there are 00:17:10.940 --> 00:17:15.107 some, some things that, uh, and we'll be good stewards of anything that, 00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:22.127 that you can provide for us. And uh, and Russ said, we'll do it. And that 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.657 was the end of the meeting. And uh, and nick couldn't have been better. 00:17:26.690 --> 00:17:30.736 And I was so far down on the totem pole at that time. I don't know where 00:17:30.769 --> 00:17:35.687 the money would have come from. Uh, some combination I presume of, of a 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:40.476 university Add on and, and some reshuffling within the college of public 00:17:40.509 --> 00:17:44.576 programs? I honestly don't know that it doesn't matter. What I do know is 00:17:44.609 --> 00:17:51.226 that our budget was increased almost 50% and it was very, very small to 00:17:51.259 --> 00:17:55.177 begin with. It just peanuts in the total scheme of the university. But 00:17:55.210 --> 00:18:01.407 just think of that. I think it's 49%. It was almost a 50% budget increase 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:07.536 uh which enabled us to hire five new full time faculty members. We were we 00:18:07.569 --> 00:18:13.117 were we were equipment intensive program even then as roger wouldn't, I 00:18:13.150 --> 00:18:16.586 mean, we have the broadcasting component. Uh, I mean, we weren't the 00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:21.046 philosophy department, we needed equipment, we needed operating dollars 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:27.296 and we needed more faculty to get things done and And the money came in 00:18:27.329 --> 00:18:32.836 one lump sum. And so I said, well we can we can't hire five really good 00:18:32.869 --> 00:18:36.847 people in one year given our size and and bring them into the culture of 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:41.877 the program and so on. Will we have the flexibility of hiring over a 23 or 00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:46.907 four year period? The answer to that was yes. And so we lived off of the 00:18:46.940 --> 00:18:51.566 salary savings in years 12 and three as we eventually ramped up the 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:56.407 faculty. And and of course, don you you were in that that that cohort of 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:00.217 Of five people, you were probably the second or third one hired as I 00:19:00.250 --> 00:19:04.996 recall within, within that ramp up. And even then when you're going from a 00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:08.826 faculty of about 15 to about 20. You know, that's a, you know, you've 00:19:08.859 --> 00:19:12.657 increased the size of your faculty of third. So you have to be very 00:19:12.690 --> 00:19:18.367 conscious of of those cultural adaptations of the new people as well as 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:23.467 the faculty members who were there to, to, to maintain and even enhance 00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:31.500 what had always been, in my opinion, a very good Asprey decor. And so we 00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:39.207 made some terrific hires with those positions. We were able to ramp up our 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:46.947 uh, operating uh, budget made equipment purchases that had been beyond our 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:54.447 wildest dreams. And uh, and, and we were really set to go And I started on 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.687 July one and within the first three or four days I flew to the University 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.637 of Illinois to meet with Jim Carey. the late Jim Carey now who was the 00:20:02.670 --> 00:20:07.586 Dean of the College of Communications. They're one of the preeminent names 00:20:07.619 --> 00:20:13.086 in our field, certainly at that time and remains so today. And because he 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:17.907 had chaired the visit here and had taken some heat from people who said, 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:21.566 you know, in, in the central administration, how dare you put the croc 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:27.687 guide school on provisional re accreditation. And I outlined to Jim what 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.986 we were gonna do. And he said, boy, that that sounds like a plan. And he 00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:37.627 came back the next, the next spring and the accrediting Council gave us 00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:43.066 full re accreditation along with way to go. I don't think we've ever seen 00:20:43.099 --> 00:20:47.816 such a dramatic turnaround and such an infusion of resources and such a 00:20:47.849 --> 00:20:53.276 plan for the future of anyone coming off a provisional accreditation. But 00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:57.256 I give Russ nelson full credit for sitting there and just calmly saying, 00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:03.107 we'll do it. 00:21:03.140 --> 00:21:06.776 You talk about the esprit decor 00:21:06.809 --> 00:21:11.207 as a faculty member. I can tell you that that was always wonderful under 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.467 your administration. How did you do that besides eating lunch with all of 00:21:15.500 --> 00:21:20.627 us every day? Well, dumb luck probably and uh, but but it really didn't 00:21:20.660 --> 00:21:24.377 have much to do with me. I'm sure it had to do with with the people who 00:21:24.410 --> 00:21:30.127 were assembled. And I think it if you'll recall don, I mean our, our 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:35.496 mantra, my mantra always want, we want to reward people and appreciate 00:21:35.529 --> 00:21:41.207 people and do right by people for what they do, not for what they don't do. 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:47.336 And we're a collection of individuals with different areas of expertise 00:21:47.369 --> 00:21:51.887 and we can't just keep cloning ourselves or we're going to do a disservice 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:56.347 to our students. You could have the nine best center fielders on the 00:21:56.380 --> 00:22:01.107 planet and not have a very good baseball team and not win very many games. 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:05.167 If you don't have people that can play all of the positions. And I think 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:10.357 we were always very strategic about filling positions in ways that 00:22:10.390 --> 00:22:15.667 strengthen the program. We maintain that balance between academics and 00:22:15.700 --> 00:22:20.907 professionals and I think it served us very, very well, particularly in 00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:26.996 those in those early days. And uh, the student body was getting stronger 00:22:27.029 --> 00:22:32.286 and uh, but I know I was blessed with with, with, with, with the faculty 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:37.306 that wanted to get along 00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:45.339 and largely always had and when I went to Penn State In 1999, after my 20 00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:52.836 years here and when there is dean of the College of Communications. And I 00:22:52.869 --> 00:22:57.597 can remember in my, my first year, you know, outlined and you know, the 00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:02.907 blueprint for the future and all of that. And 00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:06.217 Uh, you know, you're trying to read people and it was a much bigger place. 00:23:06.250 --> 00:23:09.236 We had about 30 were the largest program in the country at Penn State, 00:23:09.269 --> 00:23:12.986 about 3000 students in the College of Communications. And we grew the 00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:18.447 faculty to more than 70 and a large staff and so on. But in that first 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:23.776 year, I, I had a faculty member dawned, I'm a slow learner. It was about 00:23:23.809 --> 00:23:29.506 January or February and uh, and the place, it wasn't known for his morale 00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:34.127 quite frankly before my arrival there. And so we knew we had to address 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:38.006 those things without making it look like you're addressing them right or 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:46.039 that's phony on the surface. And so this very well meaning 10 times 00:23:46.769 --> 00:23:51.217 smarter than I articulate tenure track assistant professor came into my 00:23:51.250 --> 00:23:57.506 office and he said something like several of us were talking. What did you 00:23:57.539 --> 00:24:03.076 mean at the faculty meeting when you said x, I don't even remember what it 00:24:03.109 --> 00:24:08.907 was. And I told this story many times at Penn State. And it was literally 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:13.586 one of those questions like, what did you mean when you said it's thirsty 00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:19.967 ? And I said, well, I meant it's thursday, How could you take that any 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.177 other way? But when you've been part of a culture where there might have 00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:27.766 been multiple meanings, when somebody stood up before you and said, it's 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:33.197 thursday as to what do they really mean by that? So, in that sense, uh, of 00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:37.377 all of the things that I was well prepared to do, I think when I went to 00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:43.117 Penn State, one that I had always taken for granted here, and maybe it was 00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:50.707 because I had grown up here and had gone through the ranks here and you 00:24:50.740 --> 00:24:56.046 knew people and people knew you. And so, but I I think that, you know, it 00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:01.197 was it was a relatively, As they say, simpler time though, it probably 00:25:01.230 --> 00:25:05.496 wasn't, we always have these romantic recollections of simpler times when 00:25:05.529 --> 00:25:09.546 they weren't all that simple at the time. But it was, it was a really 00:25:09.579 --> 00:25:15.887 gifted bunch of people who really put us on the national map for any 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:20.957 number of things back in the 1990s. And I think when you're on a roll and 00:25:20.990 --> 00:25:25.407 you're feeling good about yourselves, it's good to have, it's quite 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.796 natural to have a strong esprit decor. One of the things that I remember 00:25:30.829 --> 00:25:37.256 that as a new faculty member that I really appreciated was the financial 00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:42.847 support for things like travel and research and creative activities. And 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.736 then we had that little unique office in the College of public programs 00:25:46.769 --> 00:25:49.907 for publications assistance, 00:25:49.940 --> 00:25:53.887 Janet super typed a lot of manuscripts for all of us over there, didn't 00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.397 she? She sure did. I mean that was so phenomenal to have wonderful support 00:25:58.430 --> 00:26:02.296 for college of public programs. Give her a paper and the next day you'd 00:26:02.329 --> 00:26:06.776 have it back and it'll be all red pen. Yeah, she fixed him to type them 00:26:06.809 --> 00:26:09.306 and fix them. 00:26:09.339 --> 00:26:17.127 Yeah, 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.697 No, I want to, I want to go back to the 90s a little bit because we, as we 00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:24.447 look at this progression. So in a relatively short period we went from 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.907 being this close to 00:26:28.940 --> 00:26:36.940 being on the precipice literally for re accreditation and uh, this by 1990 00:26:38.309 --> 00:26:41.806 you know, most of the new faculty hires had been made, the students were 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:46.687 getting better. The student newspaper was really very strong at the time 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:53.187 fritz. Lee had come here in 1979. Also put put the A. M. Radio station on 00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:58.847 the air, had a good working relationship with, with Channel eight uh, made 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.937 use of engineering expertise there and of course we're, we were connected 00:27:02.970 --> 00:27:07.457 by a breezeway. So a lot of things were coming together uh, that that 00:27:07.490 --> 00:27:13.667 meant that, you know, if we, if we were smart about this, we could do some 00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:20.986 good things and uh, probably in terms of national recognition. The turning 00:27:21.019 --> 00:27:29.019 point, A real tipping point came in 1990 when, when the Cronkite school 00:27:29.349 --> 00:27:34.907 won the William, Randolph hearst foundations Journalism awards program, 00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:40.036 Intercollegiate National Writing Championship. A competition often called 00:27:40.069 --> 00:27:45.036 the pulitzers of college journalism that had been around founded by uh, 00:27:45.069 --> 00:27:48.937 Randolph a hearst in 1960 00:27:48.970 --> 00:27:54.667 we won uh, we wanted 100 and the 100 or so accredited programs eligible to 00:27:54.700 --> 00:27:58.746 compete. We finished first. I knew we were going to finish in the top five 00:27:58.779 --> 00:28:02.746 or I was relatively confident. But as the, as the final competitions of 00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:09.097 the year came in and the headline was we wanted The sub headline. And 00:28:09.130 --> 00:28:13.776 almost as important to me was that northwestern had finished second and 00:28:13.809 --> 00:28:17.796 Missouri had finished third two blue bloods that had been around for 00:28:17.829 --> 00:28:23.717 decades. And not only were we now on the same list, we were at least that 00:28:23.750 --> 00:28:28.516 year on the top of the list. And the next year in 1991 we want in 00:28:28.549 --> 00:28:33.006 broadcasting for which you would have been instrumental. 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:39.407 Yeah. And and the south winds. Uh weekly television student newscast that 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:44.566 you put on the air And then we want in writing again in 92. We wanted 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:49.697 broadcasting again in the Middle 90s and won the overall in 94 and 96. It 00:28:49.730 --> 00:28:57.730 just uh, a wonderful period of success is out of nowhere. And that was 00:28:58.269 --> 00:29:01.857 because of the quality of the students. It was because the faculty was 00:29:01.890 --> 00:29:07.246 getting stronger. Uh, we also, you talked about this travel support for 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:14.496 faculty and other support within the program. Uh lots of faculty members 00:29:14.529 --> 00:29:19.086 were, were making their presence felt at presenting papers at academic 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:24.736 conferences around the country, writing articles, writing books and uh you 00:29:24.769 --> 00:29:29.187 might not even remember this. None. But the only time that U. S. News and 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:33.576 World Report has ever ranked journalism mass communication programs with 00:29:33.609 --> 00:29:38.836 1996. You know, they've been doing this for a long time. And but the only 00:29:38.869 --> 00:29:43.496 year that journalism mass communication programs were ranked by US News 00:29:43.529 --> 00:29:49.407 and World Report was in 1996 and 00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:55.657 are Broadcast Journalism. Broadcast Program was in a tie for 7th with 00:29:55.690 --> 00:29:58.407 Colombia. 00:29:58.440 --> 00:30:05.796 Print program was 14th And there were only nine or 10 Programs to make the 00:30:05.829 --> 00:30:13.627 top 15 in both broadcast and print. And and we were one of them by far the 00:30:13.660 --> 00:30:19.266 highest ranked ranked programs at the university. And uh we didn't do much 00:30:19.299 --> 00:30:23.826 marketing in those days. I don't even recall getting a call from anybody 00:30:23.859 --> 00:30:28.786 about it, nor did we send a press release out about it. And You know, and 00:30:28.819 --> 00:30:32.127 and you know, and and of course universities will will trumpet when 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:36.536 somebody moves up to 40 seconds in this day and age. But that was very 00:30:36.569 --> 00:30:41.637 interesting in 1996, tied for seventh with that was like having Missouri 00:30:41.670 --> 00:30:45.367 and northwestern be right behind you and hearst tied for seventh with 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.986 Columbia and then doing very well and writing also and uh and and those 00:30:50.019 --> 00:30:54.647 were largely reputational, There were certain metrics involved, but that 00:30:54.680 --> 00:31:00.236 was a combination of students doing so well and faculty members like you 00:31:00.269 --> 00:31:06.607 being out and about and having a major presence at meetings and leadership 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:11.266 creating the environment in which that could happen. Well. It was easy to 00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:15.996 do in this sense because everybody wanted to do it very seldom had to sell 00:31:16.029 --> 00:31:24.029 anybody on anything if it sounded if it sounded good in those days. 00:31:29.849 --> 00:31:34.607 So 25 years later, what's the future of journalism? 00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:39.016 Well, I mean it's a very uh, and that's one thing about what I think that 00:31:39.049 --> 00:31:43.867 you know what the, the walter Cronkite schools evolution over now. Almost 00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:47.117 a 30 year period from the time, 31 years, I guess in the time of the 00:31:47.150 --> 00:31:53.306 naming has always managed I think to stay ahead of the curve and it 00:31:53.339 --> 00:31:57.377 continues to stay ahead of the curve in a, in a building that that has to 00:31:57.410 --> 00:32:02.786 be the best building of its kind. Uh for any journalism mass communication 00:32:02.819 --> 00:32:09.137 school in America. A growing faculty, a strong student body, So very 00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:17.170 active. Uh it's, it was strong, strong energetic leadership, a wonderfully 00:32:18.329 --> 00:32:26.006 much larger faculty and it will continue in the years ahead to stay ahead 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.226 of the curve. The scary thing today is, we don't know as much as about 00:32:30.259 --> 00:32:35.197 what's around the curve as we, as we might have 15 years ago or 25 years 00:32:35.230 --> 00:32:41.806 ago. 00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:46.697 So what advice would you give the young student and the young faculty 00:32:46.730 --> 00:32:54.730 aspiring to teach journalism? Well, I I uh I I still it depends on who's 00:32:55.230 --> 00:33:00.687 asking the student and uh what what I would tell students and I would tell 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:06.026 them that at Arizona state is what I told the Penn state until I was blue 00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:10.347 in the face. And I honestly meant speaking of these changes at Penn state 00:33:10.380 --> 00:33:16.107 , we would have these uh spend the summer day sessions where high school 00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:22.296 ah uh prospective students would come in with their parents and we would 00:33:22.329 --> 00:33:27.276 have, you know, more than 1000 students just interested in are various 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:32.117 communications program. Uh in the summertime we'd have about 2500 students 00:33:32.150 --> 00:33:37.677 apply uh for freshman spots just in the College of communications. And and 00:33:37.710 --> 00:33:41.056 we would usually end up with an entering class of around you know, six or 00:33:41.089 --> 00:33:47.306 700 I guess. But ah 00:33:47.339 --> 00:33:50.117 go to a place 00:33:50.150 --> 00:33:55.687 that feels right, it's all about fit because if you look at the nationally 00:33:55.720 --> 00:33:59.147 accredited programs in our field, there's there's not a whole lot 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:05.627 different about the core curriculum, Writing, editing, production, law 00:34:05.660 --> 00:34:07.806 ethics, 00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:13.557 part of history, history and uh you and then the technique courses and 00:34:13.590 --> 00:34:20.097 that that all important balance and if you earn a degree in some area of 00:34:20.130 --> 00:34:23.967 mass communication, whether that's journalism, advertising, public 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.606 relations, media studies, Telecommunications, 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:34.537 online journalism, Photojournalism. If you go to work in one of those 00:34:34.570 --> 00:34:42.206 fields, you're going to be very, very well prepared for it 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:47.807 and if you decide to do something else, 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:52.896 you become an entrepreneur, you become a researcher, you become an analyst 00:34:52.929 --> 00:34:55.807 or you go back and run your father's dry cleaning business that you'd 00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:02.407 always planned to do. If you had a major in an area of mass communication 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:08.086 where you learn to write, you learn to communicate, you valued law, you 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:13.956 valued history, you valued ethics and keep in mind, you take two thirds of 00:35:13.989 --> 00:35:18.977 your hours in general education outside of that professional nature, 00:35:19.010 --> 00:35:23.927 you're about as well prepared as anybody coming out of the university 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:29.026 today to do all sorts of things. So I think it's a great liberal arts 00:35:29.059 --> 00:35:34.097 major and of course it's a great professional major and uh right now, I 00:35:34.130 --> 00:35:39.407 mean obviously it's all about digital. Uh but the best programs haven't 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:46.727 lost sight of those fundamental concepts of writing and editing and 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:51.796 production and the conceptual foundations and law and history and ethics 00:35:51.829 --> 00:35:57.197 to go with the ever evolving technique courses and what should the new 00:35:57.230 --> 00:36:05.230 professor. Mhm. Well as they come in all shapes and sizes and uh we were 00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:11.387 so blessed, I can speak just speaking more about 10 state at this point 00:36:11.420 --> 00:36:16.847 because that's been my most recent ex experience for 15 years and uh I 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:21.217 used to say point and in our college of communications that we 00:36:21.250 --> 00:36:24.697 departmental eyes when I got there. So we had departments of Journalism, 00:36:24.730 --> 00:36:28.727 department of ad pr department of Telecommunications, in the department of 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:34.097 Media Studies and film video. And 00:36:34.130 --> 00:36:42.130 the difference Between a 28 year old assistant professor of film with an M. 00:36:42.389 --> 00:36:49.916 F. A. Degree and a professor of practice In journalism who spent the last 00:36:49.949 --> 00:36:55.227 25 years as the managing editor of the Philadelphia Inquirer. And during 00:36:55.260 --> 00:37:01.376 his tenure, the Enquirer 1 18 Pulitzer prizes. There's a grand canyon of 00:37:01.409 --> 00:37:06.657 difference between the backgrounds and the personalities of those two 00:37:06.690 --> 00:37:09.197 professors. 00:37:09.230 --> 00:37:15.247 But the film students need this young man and the journalism students can 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:21.787 profit from this man and all of the others that enter this mix. And the 00:37:21.820 --> 00:37:28.106 key is to have the academics and the professionals respect one another, 00:37:28.139 --> 00:37:33.276 understand one another build off of one another strengths and know at the 00:37:33.309 --> 00:37:38.236 end of the day, the students will be best served if you can do that. So, 00:37:38.269 --> 00:37:44.316 uh the, you know, the assistant professor of film was going to have to be 00:37:44.349 --> 00:37:49.456 working on projects whether they're documentaries or experimental and and 00:37:49.489 --> 00:37:54.697 presenting them at festivals. A new assistant professor tenure track in 00:37:54.730 --> 00:38:00.287 journalism interested in media law or media history needs to be active in 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:06.907 uh, in those respective divisions of A E. J. M. C. Or in the West Coast 00:38:06.940 --> 00:38:12.077 Journalism historians association or the broadcast Education Association. 00:38:12.110 --> 00:38:18.336 And everybody can't do all of those things. And if you if that mosaic is 00:38:18.369 --> 00:38:21.447 present in the faculty that you put together, then you've really got a 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.789 winning combination.