okay,
mm hmm.
So today is Friday, 2, 2011. We're conducting an interview for the Arizona
State University retirees association video history project. We're located
today at the home of dr robert coach Fleming. I'm Michael Thompson a issue
alumnus, former drum major, the Sandoval marching band and also current
voice of the son of a marching band. The technical support today staff
include john McIntosh who's operating the camera, roger carter who is
responsible for the audio and then Dave shortly who's the director also in
attendance is linda Vance coy, Chair the issue retirees association video
history project. So coach, we're gonna jump into the interview once you do
go ahead and introduce yourself stating your name and positions
dr robert coach Fleming. I was associate director of bands and now
associate director of bands emeritus At ASU. And was there from 1974 until
2002
And had a wonderful 28 years of making music with great students like
Michael T.
So I want to talk about a little bit about where you're born and raised
and if you can share with me a little bit of information about, you know,
how you developed your um how you developed your desire for education and
music. We lived in a very small town outside of Pittsburgh called
Aspinwall
and to give you an idea of how small the town was, My brother and I were
the paperboys. He did the, what was the eastern side of town. I did the
western side of town and
usually had real good things happen at christmas because that's when you
got all your tips you see and you learn you learned a whole lot from doing
that. He he and I both worked at Irwin's Pharmacy in downtown Aspen Mall
as a second job because my dad was a teacher and mother didn't work. Um
but that was their choice. I mean it's not that she didn't want to but you
just didn't do it back then. She was a mom full time mom. And
so tom and I worked to help pay for things that we had at home and we
never really wanted for anything
but we got an unbelievable
ah
oh what am I trying to example to follow And my dad who taught private
lessons every saturday all day long right there in the house and
to mother who was always practicing organ because she played at at the
church as well as singing in the choir and two I mean that just instilled
in us the desire to practice, I practiced up in the attic and my brother
practiced in the basement. My first flute was given to me by our doctor,
our family doctor, he had a wonderful haynes flute which back then was
just the best you could get and I said dad why do I have to go to the
attic? That because I want people to hear the beautiful flute sounds
coming out of the attic and of course once my brother heard that he'd go
down in the basement and just splat splat splat splat. So we had a thing
going about that, but
they taught me just the bare facts of how to grow up and and what to
expect out of life and what to look for in life. And so I feel very, very
fortunate that we had a wonderful childhood, you know, back in the day. Uh
, there was no, there wasn't even school busses. I mean we walked to
school or rode our bike And I could go to the elementary school, which was
like four blocks west. The junior high was kind of close to our house and
the senior high was a few blocks to the east, but we always walked and
that's just what everybody did. You didn't, When you became 16, you didn't
get a car, He walked, you still walked. And I, I just, that's one of the
big things that's changed in our world and our country. And but I'm glad
we came up through the way we did.
My dad was my band director through elementary junior high and high school.
And
once in a while that was a good thing
outside of band because he'd go to the teachers I was having trouble with
and he kind of convinced them that I needed a little extra help. And so
that they would help me a little extra. But I was also very careful not to
do anything wrong in anybody else's class because dad was the first one
who found out about it and boy then when I got home and mother heard about
it. Oh there were some chores that needed to be done right away, you
weren't a troublemaker. Well you know I was the baby of the family and tom
would do things to get me in trouble uh but he would keep me out of
trouble because Gi was a flute player. Well you know there was a certain
stigma about being a male flute player that back then uh I didn't really
comprehend or understand much but my brother was three years older so he
did and ah he protected me more than I knew actually from kids saying
weird things about you know maybe in a flute player, I always thought it
was because all the rest of them were girls and that was great by me hey,
you know, um but
and tom was, he was trombonist and I went to muskingum college on a, on a
music scholarship full ride. In fact they gave him his own based on bone
as part of his scholarship and he was a band director in murrysville
pennsylvania for most of his teaching career and piano tuner on the side.
I tried several times to teach me how to do that, but I didn't really
grasp the situation um but he passed away several years ago and ah
both mom and dad have been gone for quite some time but they were
wonderful people, wonderful parents,
oh yes, yep, but that conducted the choir and mom sang in it and uh of
course I, both, my brother and I were in the the young peoples choirs and
so on, so uh and that was good at the time, I was like, you know, why do
we have to do this? Well when I went into college then and we started
learning music theory and that sort of thing real heavy, I realized how
much being in the choir had helped and pitch notation and relative pitch
and no being able to sing pitch intervals without thinking that much about
it, so being in the choir was was a good thing for us, but we never, I was
in league club in college as an undergrad, but that's about all then flute
just took over and I was practicing 56 hours a day because I had remained
first year because all the rest of them were girls and they all wanted my
position and I wasn't gonna let that happen, so I just practiced my tail
off and I never said anything but first chair through high school or
college and went on to play professionally with the wheeling Symphony and
uh came to a
realization that I couldn't be perfect every time I went on the stage
because if you're going to be a professional musician, there are no
mistakes, they don't happen, it just doesn't happen and bob chris, who was
my conductor of the wheeling Symphony made that point very clear when I
was going out on stage to play Peter and the Wolf and the flute solo and
Peter and the Wolf is that's one that everybody who auditions for an
orchestra has to play that as an audition piece because it's it's tough.
And he tapped me on the shoulder and he said Fleming and we were good
friends. I was
fortunate too have become very good friends with him in my time there, but
he said Fleming the bird poops and you're out and that's all thanks. So I
went out on stage, the bird had a flawless flight. Uh
but yet the more I thought about that, the more I thought, I don't know
that I can do this the rest of my life. And so I started looking for
teaching jobs and got the one in Ut martin,
taught for a couple of years in high school in pennsylvania. And then I
got my master's degree at Carnegie Mellon University and went to the
University of Tennessee at martin Tennessee. And they lovingly called my
first band there the stumbling 38 And they even got that wrong because
there were only 37, but I had a great seven year career. They're working
to learn a lot myself and started working on my doctorate at southern
Illinois in carbondale,
how did he get the name? Coach asked him that question. So how did you get
the name coach? Um,
when I was teaching at midland pennsylvania, very small school in the
south, southeastern southwestern corner of pennsylvania, East Liverpool.
Ohio was only 10 miles away and we were playing them in a playoff game
for the state championship. So I went down too easily report to watch the
band and literally I was up in the stands and the band wasn't very good.
So I'm thinking, okay, what do I do now? And I look over the back of the
stands, here is the football team and they're running this play and I saw
you lateral here and then the lateral back there and then the guy,
okay, wow, that's really something. So I watched the band a little longer
. I looked back, they're doing that same play and I tied it one more time.
Yeah, they were doing that same play. So I said, okay, I'm out of here.
And I went right to our coach's house and I said, coach, I, I think you
might want to pattern this play out and draw it out. Yeah, come on in. So
I drew out the play of what they were doing, long story short championship
game, we set up, We were ahead by two. All they needed was field goal and
they had the ball, there was like 15 seconds left in the game. They tried
this play that I had shown the coach we had a defense for it. We
intercepted one of those backward laterals, took it in the end zone game
over the team came into the stands and carried me onto the field
because they knew that I had given him this play and at their banquet they
made me an honorary coach. And so the band kids there that 2nd year
started calling me coach. I didn't mind. I mean that was fine with me and
when I came here,
when you went to Tennessee, when I went to Tennessee sorry. Um one of my
kids came that was in the middle and band to school at Tennessee and he
started calling me coach. Well then the kids in the band well they would
ask can we call him coach? Well sure that's yeah that's great. And I
always felt like it was a good recruiting tool because I could go to a
high school football game and the director said hey coach is here
everybody say hi to coach. They knew I was the band director at A. S. U.
They didn't know what my name was but they didn't need to, I was coach,
that was fine and they could always remember that. And
so then when I came here, Danny Lindsay came with us and he was my grad
assistant and he was out on the field and coach, what are we gonna do
about this? And I could just see heads turn what do you call him you know
? And uh and that than how it continued and so I've been coached for, Well
, probably what, 50 years, 40 years, 45 years, 43 years, probably.
So, but that's that's how it all started. And it really, uh,
I feel like
it's an honor to be called coach first of all, because look who people
call coach. I mean they call their football coach, their baseball coach,
the basketball coach. But it's a person higher than just another person.
So that already puts me up a little bit in the echelon of things as far as
I feel. And and it is an honor to have high school students who like I've
conducted maybe a district, all state honor band or uh, all state band or
something and that they'll see me 35 years later and I know they don't
remember my name, but they are able to go wait a minute coach. I was in
your band and yada yada yada. And remember me. And of course, I always say
yeah.
And then I guess at the instrument, which most of the time, right? But ah
, but it's just, it's just been something that that has made me feel
special in my life. I mean, you wouldn't think of anything but calling me
coach. I mean your kids call me coach, your Children, you know, your wife
calls me coach. It's just, that's who I am.
I call you coach. Usually when I'm around band people, but not always know
at home. It's a stupid,
so what caused your Tuesday issue? I got a call from dr Richard Strange,
who I was, his grad assistant when I got my master's degree at Carnegie
Mellon and he said I just got the job at Arizona State University, would
you like to come and be my assistant?
And my first question was, where in the heck is that? But I came out and
you know, it wasn't a, you've got it kind of situation. I came out and
went through the interview process and I was lucky enough to be chosen And
doc and I spent 25 years together.
So coach, can you think back to when you first got into the issue and what
a issue? And you know, the surrounding area was like actually one of the
first things we did when we got to town was to find the stadium and we
walked out onto the stadium floor and there was no upper deck, it was just
the lower deck, but it was still the most huge stadium I've ever seen in
my life, You know, so now that it's even twice as big, uh, it's still, I
can still remember feeling, you know, Holy Mackerel, what have I gotten
myself into, you know? So, um, And my first band was 128 members, Um,
which was up eight members from the band I left at UT Martin because I had
built it up to 120
and
and yet we, we just felt really good about being here and uh it was
amazing too be in this part of the country uh having been born and raised
back east, it was a whole new world. My mother thought we were coming out
to dodge arrows. I had to, I had to, I even remember there were actually,
sorry, what do you call them? Uh hitching posts on the streets of Downtown
Tempe, I mean actually where you put the horse on it and walk away from it
, they were still there When we got here in 74 and a couple of buildings
in Downtown Tempe that I had a vespa motor scooter and I took it to this
place to get repaired, dirt floor, main street, dirt floor in this
building. And so it was, it was a whole lot different than what I had been
used to. We were amazed that it was so flat first of all, and that the
campus was so succinct because when, well, you know, Pit University of
Pittsburgh, I mean, that's just a tower and that's their campus. Okay, but
that's one of the few college campuses that doesn't just sprawl all over
everything, whereas A S. U. Was very compact in this square area. Gammage
Auditorium being one of the corners of that square and mhm. That that
impressed me more than anything. The fact that my office was going to be
in Gammage Auditorium. I mean this is one of the finest music halls in the
world and yet we get to just go down the elevator out onto the stage, set
up and perform. I mean no other college in the country that I know of has
that and to be in such a marvelous hall and that was back in the day when
Chicago Pittsburgh symphony philadelphia Orchestra would come through here
and perform and make their tour recording in Gammage Auditorium because
it's such a great acoustical property and so we had just the best there
was and
that sure made a lot of things worthwhile.
Alright, can we talk a little bit about your department like the College
of Music? I don't know what it was called at the time, but you know what
that was kind of like back in fact there was a college of Music and we
fought long and hard and finally became a school of music. Um I was again
very fortunate the
directors of the School of Music, which they call them department
chairman's back then. Um I had very good ones but I had for the longest
part of my time, I think 14 years George Emerson was my department
chairman and George had the capability of making any faculty member that
walked into his office walk out of his office feeling like he was the only
person in that school of music that was worth anything and he had a a way
about him that congealed the faculty? So we were a very close knit group
and supported each other and did whatever we can for each other to build
the school of music. I mean, we had, we had some of the finest teachers in
the business. Uh, you know, you get bob spring sample, apathy and joe
white coat, uh,
ah,
trumpet,
David Hickman. Uh, I mean, these are known all over the world and people
come from all over to study with them. And so we always had good students
to choose from for membership in the band program. And we had a very good
camaraderie. I really did. I mean, they maybe he didn't like marching band
, but they respected what I did with it and how I did it. And so that felt
good. As far as I was concerned now it is more a performance oriented
school of music and music education has kind of taking a back seat maybe,
although I think it's starting to turn around and we're starting to get
more people interested in becoming music teachers. But for a while I think
that the focus of the school of music was not in that area. And that was
another reason that I didn't mind retiring when I did because there were
some things happening that I couldn't control. So that's the way they want
to go. That's the way they'll go.
Okay, so let's let's talk about a little bit about your career progression
, how did your career progress and what do you remember most about your
issue career? Well, my overall career, I I think I'm somewhat unusual
maybe In that I've been with the same woman for 46 years, first of all, um
who everybody refers to as mama coach, but uh I've only had three jobs in
my career, my high school teaching University of Tennessee at martin and
ASU and it was kind of one of those things that my dad always said Give
yourself five years, no matter what job you take. And if at the end of
that five years you could stay there the rest of your life, you're where
you should be. And I could have stayed at Ut martin. I mean it was a
wonderful job. They they built a new building for the School of Music. I
helped design the band area, the whole thing. I mean it was it was really
a nice setting. Great kids from Tennessee? Oh man, they were, yes ma'am,
no ma'am kids, you know? And uh but when doc called and said would I be
interested in a S. U. Well who wouldn't, you know? So when I got here, in
fact Brenda and I have talked about this, it really only took me about two
years to decide this is where I'm going to be the rest of my life because
There was just a good feeling and the students that I've worked with over
the years, which I have like 1200 on email right now of alarms and uh, but
they were just nothing but the best, you know, I, I don't know whether you
were there. Do you remember the name dan? Mm hmm. Okay. He's the only
student I ever kicked out of bed In 28 years. And um,
that story lasted quite a few years and the incidents never happened again
either. But ah, but I just, I marvel at the students I had and what
they're doing now like yourself who would have ever thought,
tell us about some of the people who had the greatest impact on your years
in the issue. George Emerson,
dick, strange
fred miller who went to san Diego state I think after he left here. And uh
, Gina Lombardi, who was the orchestra director, my first bunch of years,
extremely kind gentleman and a wonderful musician and had a fabulous
orchestra. I would just go up and stand in the back of the room and listen
to the orchestra rehearsed just because it was really good and I like what
he did. I liked how he conducted and ran the orchestra. Um, Mladic or
ladic or there's a guy that you could walk across campus with and he knew
everybody that walked by him and I'm going, how do you know all these
people?
It's all smoking the mirrors. But
he, he became a very good friend. He even wanted me to ride. He was
homecoming parade chairman, you know hey coach come on get up in this car
with me, I can't do that you know. But He he was a good man to work for
two and
you know there jim excuse me john Spinny who was a gymnastic coach at A. S.
U. Became a marvelous friend. Just saw him a couple of days ago actually
and uh frank kush you know I remember standing in the tunnel
the day or the game after he had been fired. Remember the crowd was all
blue because he wore a blue sweater to the previous game. Hey you remember
that he's standing back in the tunnel and the team had gone out and I
walked back. I said frank aren't you going out
when they're ready? I said what do you mean? He said just wait And we
stood there for the next 30 seconds just listening to the crowd and
building and building. We want bush, we want kush! He looked at me and he
said okay I think it's time and he ran out and I have never heard that
stadium so loud. Even the win over Nebraska was not as loud as the time
frank kush ran out that night with his blue sweater on and
that's just another little memory that sits back there you know I just got
thousands of them. It's just been such a good experience here and will
always be grateful for that.
I've got one more question for you and I want to bring in mama coach. No,
not not one more total just uh, so how did they actually change from your
arrival time until you departed? Wow, let me count the ways there are so
many ways to count size
beauty. I mean, I always thought that our campus and in fact, I was almost
lobbying for them to stop with all the flowers, give the money to the
students. You know, we don't need all those flowers, but it was always
such a beautiful campus clean all the time clean. And I've been on some
campuses, well where I got my doctor to southern, southern Illinois and
Carbondale, um, one of the ugliest campuses I've ever been on in my life
because it was so unkempt. I mean, it just nobody did anything to keep it
up and uh, mhm. So I always admired that about s you back in the day
the university cared about its students. It really did. I mean, you had
people like administrators who would walk out on campus and talk to
students and you know, in my field I was always privileged to know
somebody as I walked across as somebody, hey coach. How you doing? Well,
sure I had at that point in time, several 100 in the band and of course,
by the time I retired, we had a monster band. So yeah, there was bound to
be somebody that would know me. But um but I feel like this day and age,
um the university, it is not as student oriented as it used to be. That's
just that's just a gut feeling. I mean, it's the largest university in the
world, well maybe in the country, I know that, but Mhm. You know, are we
able to take care of the students? Like we used to be able to take care of
them? That's just a question I have in my mind, I'm not going to find the
answer, I'm sure, right, President Crow is evidently doing a fabulous job
of raising money for the university and
keeping things going and adding new things all the time, which you have to
do to stay alive in this business. But I wonder if it's become too much of
a business and not enough of a school of education and that's just the old
man in me talking, you know, I'm from the old school, I'm a Yes sir, no
sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am, kind of person because that's the way I was
brought up, you didn't even think of calling your next door neighbor by
their first name. Uh it was mr so and so mrs so and so period and uh
that's just the way I was brought up, um that's the way I think it is. I
wore a shirt and tie to school, people ridiculed me, What are you doing
here in Arizona for God's sakes, That's fine. That's just me. If I'm in
front of a class, I'm demanding that they respect me. Well, how can I do
that if I'm in T shirts and jeans? Uh, can't. So I Did draw the line
though at the Marching Field. Yes, I was in T shirts and shorts because it
was 114 and hotter than you know what?
Yeah. Alright coach, what would you, what kind of advice would you give to
young people in choosing their college in the career? That's very easy and
, and I would look them right in the eye and look their parents right in
the eye and say go to school where you want to go to school because it's
the most important years of your life really, when you think about it,
whether it be four or 5 or seven or 12 or whatever, but I always
tried to make them understand that that was an important decision and no
matter what you're gonna get from this school or that school, if if you
get a lot of money from one school and you don't want to be there, you're
not going to succeed, you're not gonna do well. Uh it's gonna be like, why
am I here all the time instead of gee? I wish I'd have gone there. So that
was always my biggest advice and I think parents really appreciated that.
So is there a special event that stands out in your memory every time of
the issue, you know, you hear this all the time that there are too many
Special events to pick 1? Well I can pick three actually, four, Uh, Rose
bowl,
the
receiving the subtler trophy, which is the Heisman Trophy of the band
world, which is voted on by your peers. And that even makes it more
exciting as far as I'm concerned to be one of the finest marching band
programs in the country
And the 97 Rose Bowl
and then the
performance by the symphonic band at Midwest Band Clinic in Chicago
college marching band. I mean they don't have contests where you can go
compete against other bands, you know. But the subtler trophy is,
that's it. There is no greater award that can be given to any university
marching band, that's the top. You'll only get it once, you know, it's not
like you can try again six years later.
So to have received that, which has now been put in the Hall of Fame in
the athletic department, which is really amazing. I mean that's just
wonderful to have that trophy in the Hall of Fame. And
yeah, in perpetuity is a word, we never think about the scholarships that
I'm able to give five scholarships a year comes from the alumni donations.
That is now in perpetuity. So they'll be able to give those out forever.
See you don't think that that will ever happen to you? The subtler trophy
is in the Hall of Fame forever.
That's my trophy. You know, and although it also, we had to have a good
history, so it wasn't just mine, but it was the history of the band
brought it to them prominent point, but
I'll stand there and say.
And uh, the Sunday with marching band was the first team in the PAC 10 and
now the PAC 12 to receive that trophy, is that correct? Yes. First band
and there's only been one other and that was U. C. L. A. Just a few years
ago I received it. Um, but there haven't been, I'm on the committee, so I
know who gets nominated. But uh,
I, That's the only two, the background on the midwest band directors
conference. What happens there, you know, the high school groups go there
, But you talk about colleges, I didn't see any colleges there when I went.
Very few colleges go. It's oh,
it's a conference that again, has grown beyond anything we ever thought it
would be. And in fact they're now meeting in the historic center, which is
this giant conference center Because they had to, I mean, they have
upwards, I think last year almost 8000 it's a band Orchestra convention
directors convention and they literally come from all over the world and
to perform there. You have to submit tapes and be evaluated and be asked
to come and give a concert there. So it's, it's not something you can just
say, you know, hey, what about us? Excuse me. And
it runs from Wednesday through saturday and orchestras go usually
Wednesday part of thursday and then thursday night jazz bands mhm begin
and then contract bands are throughout the next couple of days and they're
, you know, really top notch groups. Originally, it was to provide band
directors with an audible
experience about what's new in the composition world as far as band is
concerned and you had to play like On your concert that you gave, you had
to play at least five new pieces that nobody's heard before, you know that
the publisher has now ready to print and, and so we went there to learn
all this new music and get ideas of what we might like our band to play.
That's still the case, but it's not as necessary as it used to be, mainly
because there are so many places you can go now to hear ideas of tunes and
things that you might want your band to do, but it was very prestigious to
perform there.
That's the place where the composer uh john we played his new piece called
celebrations and he just came running down the aisle after my cut off and
I saw him coming and he's a big big guy, I saw him coming and then I saw
the tears in his face and my first thought was, oh, what have I done? You
know? And then he just bear hugged me and just everything changes in your
mind in an instant of, I must have done good
favorite show. Oh,
so you can think back to like the most, probably the
mhm Pagliacci and uh,
I don't remember the other tunes that were in that show. Do you remember
my,
I don't think I was, I thought you were going the same way from when I was
My
favorite. My favorite year was Bob's final year, the 201,
2002 season because he chose uh, all of his favorite tunes to do for all
the shows what he didn't consider or maybe he did consider, but some uh,
student pointed it out, he chose all of the tunes that turned out to be
the hardest tunes, the most demanding tunes naturally. Those were going to
be probably your favorites. So the students who were in that final year of
his career really got to work out and really it was beautiful and well and
I took it one step further because I wanted the alumni to feel an
involvement in my last year. So I went back into my archives and pulled
out the drill that we did to those numbers and just, you know, enlarged it
to fit the size of the group we now had. So they didn't alarms could sit
there and say, hey, we did that drill, you can't do that drill, we did
that drill. Um But they I think they really enjoyed that aspect of the
season that they got to see some of their own drills
that they did when they were in school and nobody else would remember that
you know. Huh. But yeah I you know then to just go back to that favorite
show thing ah
Boy Pagliacci came to my mind because that would probably be my favorite
tune because it's operatic in nature and yet the band played it so
magnificent magnificently that people didn't even think well that's a
classical tune. What are you playing that for on the football field? I
mean they just didn't think anything it was just a gorgeous melody that
was played really well and robert e was a drum major and he wore a clown
outfit with the big red nose and um I mean that was Pagliacci of course
but uh
I think also great gate of Kiev was in that show and it was generally a
classical show but that would probably be my favorite
other than your own a. S. U. Band. What is the best band, college band
you've seen? Mhm. Where do they? You know you get the michigan Ohio state
some of those yeah and they all have their own style about things. There
are a lot of great university bands in the country and they have every
every man really has its own style, its own way to do things. Um, when we
were going up against Michigan and, and I always felt like, yeah, the band
was going up against their band, you know, we controlled pregame and
halftime by darn we better win both. And, but the University of Michigan
came in and they did a show that made no sense in that stadium in the Rose
Bowl because it's such a low bowl and I knew that and you know, had been
there before and seen it. And so we did a totally different show. We
spelled out Rose Bowl, but I knew how to spell it out so that even the low
seating was able to see it. And I think our show was much more impressive
than the University of Michigan show. And that was what I was going after
when a higher state in 97. Um,
oddly enough, I had never really heard the Ohio State Man in person. I've
heard recordings out the wazoo, but I've never heard him in person. And
their director, john Woods, who just retired this year. Um, there's a dear
dear friend, respected colleagues and that band in its own right is
literally one of the finest in the world. Okay. But they don't have any
woodwinds. They're all brass. That creates a totally different sound. And
the sound that they like to have is a a mellow sound as compared to what
we get in our group with the woodwinds that we had
just a fuller richer concert band style approach to it. And so so when we
performed against a higher state um I felt like we were the better band.
Uh Now I never told john that I never will tell john that because in their
own right they were just as good as we were. We couldn't do what they did
and they can't do what we do just because of the makeup of the band. Um
There are some really really good bands that are never heard of. I saw
northwestern Louisiana State University at negative
Louisiana Outstanding marching band. 380
42 member horn french horn section that just blew me away and yet nobody
ever sees them because they're What Division three football if that even
and yet their director is just a pied piper that gets kids in that band
and they just have fun being in a band and making good music and ah
university of texas ban I mean they filled the field 400 and 40 I think.
And yet I'll put my band up against him any day of the week because
we are as good as we can be at what we do
and they are too but we just do it differently. So two to say there's
another band better than a S you when I had it. Ah I don't know of any and
I know of some who think they are
that kind of live south of where we're standing. But that only ever
happened once where I felt they beat us. And that was back when Jim keane
was the director
and he brought in this show to our stadium that just knocked me on my
shorts. I mean it was very good and very well done and I never let it
happen again because if anything propelled me to drive my kids further. It
was that that we are going to be better than you of a, without a doubt in
anybody's mind. And now Jim Hudson has that very same thing right back
where it should be.
So what's your best memory of the issue
at A. S. U. What is the best memory you have of the issue
every time we beat the U. Of A.
And Nebraska
boy. That was an exciting football game. Holy mackerel. It was one of
those. Can you believe it the whole game. And we we couldn't believe it
really Until that clock went to zero. And then it was like oh my God, we
just beat Nebraska you know and shut him out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um
The the 28 mandates
that Iran where we brought the high school bands in to perform and be
adjudicated and the mass bands we used to do, which we had to stop doing
mainly because the team was winning and the athletic department didn't
want to give up those free seats for the high school dance. Ah, so we just
had to stop doing the mask ban. But we still did the band aid and that was
always a favorite
time of the year for me. Mm hmm. And then any bowl game now, you know what
we talked about,
uh, memories of things that happened to me and this is kind of typical
but it's, it's something that I'll never forget. I'm now conductor of a
community band in san Diego, the coastal community concert band and there
full time conductor. I fly over on monday do rehearsal monday night and
fly back on Tuesday and in preparing for they always finish with, well,
not always, but most concerts we encore with stars and stripes forever.
Well I wasn't really happy with the way that we're playing it when I took
over and so I listened to every military ban perform stars and stripes on
cd and the marine band kept coming back as being man they, that's just the
way it should be. So I called Michael colburn who is colonel and the
conductor of the marine Band. I said, Michael, I just wanted to let you
know that I've listened to every armed forces band play stars and stripes
and still the marine man plays at the best of any and there was just
silence on the phone. I said, Michael, are you there? He said coach, are
you losing it? I said, what do you mean? I play it the way you taught me
to play it.
And I just got chills over my whole body, just, I had forgotten. And then
he said, do you not remember the butt kicking? You gave me because my
tempos were all screwed up on the stars and stripes in conducting class.
So here's the guy who is the premier conductor in the country of military
ensembles
and he's saying that he's playing this national march because of how I
taught him to do,
go ahead chop that somebody, you know. So where did you teach him here? He
was one of our students,
he's a conductor of the United States Marine Band. So that's, you know,
you talk about feathers in your cap. Well that's a giant feather in my cap
and I'm really proud to tell everybody, you know, Hey, I thought he might
do that
Vahtslahv nellie bell, who is another major composer. We were in new york
with the Carnegie Mellon Band and he was conducting our band and I was the
principal flutist and he got upset with the band and how they were
performing
symphonic movement was a new piece that he had done and he just,
you, you conduct,
huh, Well, he knew I was a graduate system. So I stood up and I said, uh,
okay, Ben, let's make the best of it and all of a sudden he liked what
they did. So he wanted me to conduct it on the concert in Carnegie hall
wow, you know Holy Mackerel, I mean this was I was like 20 maybe at the
time and it's like this isn't happening
Because it was 114 and hotter than you know what? But that made our motto
happen, no sweat, no pride. It was easy. They thought it was a genius. Our
our motto
ah
why does old age do this to you?
I expect great things came from my daughter and the band thinks it came
from me but I didn't tell him and it came from her because she looked up
at me when I was walking her across the field and she said daddy, you
expect great things
and I said you know what? And this was before cole's came out with noticed
that and so we had the fraternity make the sign and put it up on the
podium, expect great things E G. T. And that is still with them, they
still they still respect that and I'm proud of that too. Uh huh.
Prior to the southwest I fought with that Dick and I went over for oh I
don't know, it seemed like a couple of years, what should we call this
band because Sun Devil band just didn't seem like it needed an explanation
, it needed something else and
the University of Arizona took the pride of Arizona
like the year before we were I'm going to do this and so we couldn't use
that and I just, you know, well, okay, let's go broader than Arizona, they
may be the pride of Arizona, but were the pride of the southwest and so
that has stuck with them forever and I think it was probably in 76 when I
first announced that to the world, in our announcements,
okay, the voice of the issue band at the current time. How about Jim
Cressman? Oh my, what a you know, there you go, you talk about wonderful
memory Mr Jam Chrisman and he could, he could tell a yarn like nobody's
business, He knew everything about this university. I mean, he had a part
of everything that went on with this university, including several name
changes and uh I mean he was, he was a back pocket supporter that I always
felt like if I really need something, I'll go to gym, he'll get it, he'll
make them see the light and in several cases, I pulled him out of my back
pocket and and things got done. But ah he had a special voice, a little
bit of a twang that just kind of such a, in a comfort zone and he was like
dad's sitting by the fireplace telling a christmas story and
they're really the people just, they knew instantly who was on the
microphone, he didn't even have to say his name ever. In fact, he didn't
like to, I made him put it in the announcements, he said, I don't want to
read that. I said, well you're going to because you're reading it. So put
your name in there. And but he was a very humble man and just a wonderful
friend, supporters, wow. He supported us all the all the time. So just
like Michael does, I mean, Michael puts in a lot of extra hours to get
things prepared for what he has to do with the issue band.
So he's carrying on the tradition. There were a couple in between Sean bad
key was for a couple of years and had some folks from the finance or uh
yeah, Broadcasting department.
But yeah, All right. It takes a special kind of person to Continak in
front of 80,000 people.
So were there any challenges encountered during your career? You know,
either financial administrative always. I mean, it was always
how are we going to fund this? How are we going to buy this? And I don't
with a shoestring budget comparatively. I think I had like maybe
Near the end about 80,000 a year to work with. But that included travel.
And you take this man to you of a one time, There's $8,000 right there.
Easy.
I had good needs to work with robert Wells, robert. Wells was very good
Dean. As far as I was concerned as far as I was concerned in my program
because you have to have support from the upper administrators if you're
going to have any kind of success, that's all there is to it. I mean, look
at it now. Jim Hudson comes in five years later. The program is right back
where I left it. And that's because he had support from the president as
well as from the athletic department etcetera. And
so yeah, I had always had to have a fight for a budget. Um, I did get
money to run the band from the School of music and from the Dean of Fine
Arts. And once in a while we'd get an extra thing like for new uniforms or
something from the president's office. But we, we dealt a lot with getting
donations to the band and getting free instruments from instrument
companies and so on because they wanted to sponsor us. Um of course
Budweiser used to sponsor us to back in the day, but that doesn't happen
anymore either. I actually wasn't aware of that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I
thought we just used to play the song. It was always a problem finding
funding and I always put in requests for additional funding, additional
instruments etcetera. And uh I even remember one year I did a dumb thing
and that is, I didn't spend all of my allotment and I was going to spend
it in june
well, we put in some orders to, to spend that amount, came back, funds
weren't there. What do you mean funds aren't there? I know they're there.
Uh you better talk to your department chair. So I went straight to
Amberson. He said, yeah, Fleming sometimes you just gotta buck up, you
know? And I was going to tell you
yesterday and he smiled and he said it, we're in deep trouble and I knew
you had money so I borrowed it well. And in fact, the next year he did
slide me a little extra from the School of music budget because he had
Borrowed our, I think it was $8,000. Um, but that's, that's how things
worked then. You know, you, you weren't ever really sure. I mean at the
university we never got contracts until we were like a month and a half
into the school year. Well, okay. That's the way they do it. That's fine.
Um, I don't know if it's still that way or not, but that was always an
interesting aspect. Yeah, I would, I would say that's what was the most
trouble and, and gaining the respect of the athletic department. That was
number two because, mm hmm. If an athletic department doesn't want you,
boy, I don't even think about going to their door because they'll shut you
out just real fast because they don't, they don't need you. They need
those boys out on the field playing football and winning games. Now. The
fact that
I think we finally convinced them that we can help with that. And well,
you know what I was like during the game. I mean, I I ran the game. People
come up, talk to me, I said not now first down go you know, and I'm I'm I
can't lose a minute of that game because that's my job. And how does the
same way he stands right in front of that band and he controls every
second of what the band does all in support of the team. So mm hmm. That
was always something I figured was part of my job, you know, and so I
think once we convinced the athletic department that that was our role,
then
we gained a lot of respect there and and I had some wonderful people in
the athletic department, good friends that you know, it became my go to
guy and of course going through five athletic directors, six football
coaches, five basketball coaches, wow and so on down the line. You know,
it was always changing from the, from the time that bill frieder came to
me, no, no, no no bob Weinhauer Came to me, slipped me $100 bill and said
bring as much toilet paper as you can for this to the next game. And of
course that was when you know they'd wait until they scored the first
bucket and then they throw the talk well it was the band's job to pass out
the toilet paper. Well
when we got penalized for doing that at cow, uh that was when the toilet
paper stopped and so did the money.
So coach directing a university band program. Very demanding. You talked
about, you know, the pep band, the marching band, symphonic wind ensemble
, very time consuming, very demanding, very rigorous schedule. So I want
to talk a little bit about the role that your family played in, that
overall experience because it's so demanding and um, you know, for mama
coach and her engagement with with the band and then even your kids, they
played well. Uh
Number one, I felt like our Children
gained a lot from the fact that I was the director of the band here
because uh, the band kids always accepted them and I mean they'd come to
rehearsal and I'd like to never see them again because they'd be off with
band kids, they'd be carried around on shoulders, they'd be, they'd hide
them from me, you know, I mean playing jokes with me whatever. But the
kids had a really good understanding and a story I remembered to bring
that to a point. I was walking across the field and brian, my son had been
, our son had been there at rehearsal and he had a buddy of his with him
and it was a, it was a hard rehearsal. So I, I've been working the band
pretty hard and that follow that was with brian just as I kind of caught
up to them and they didn't know I was there, he looked over brian, He said
, man, is your dad that tough on you? He said, nah his bark is worse than
his bite, don't you know, And and yet I think my Children always respected
the fact that I didn't expect more out of them than I did my own band kids.
And so there was a an easy feeling there that I wasn't expecting more out
of anybody in general. It was everybody and
just had the same expectations and that's the way I lived by it.
Unfortunately, Brenda is of the same feeling and oh, I think we did a
pretty darn good job raising our kids, but I know it would have been
somewhat different without their involvement with the bank
to Brenda's
plus side, shall we say, which they're all that way. But uh this house was
a year in party house for the seniors after every pass in review concert,
we'd have a party for all the seniors and only seniors could come, they
couldn't bring their dates, they couldn't bring their friends. It was just
seniors. And we did actually, we did seniors because our house is small
and we thought there's no way we can have 350 people here at one time. So
it became the senior party was something after the pass and review concert
, always on a Thursday night, uh something to look forward to and I had a
, I had another job in addition to being um coach's wife and so I would
always take a day of vacation that day to prepare the food. And after a
while it got pretty streamlined, I knew what they liked and what would
fill them up, and and so I had a kind of a standard menu that I always
used, but then I would take off the next day because they would never
leave until like two o'clock in the morning, and in fact sometimes we
joked about it, we would uh we had a pool table in what we call our game
room, and uh we'd say we're going to bed, just be sure to lock the door
when you leave and turn out the lights. So it was just that kind of
relationship, and so that was special, plus students would drop in Lots of
Different Times two, and they were still, yeah, they were part of our
family, it was like an extended family and we didn't all of our relatives
were back east in Pittsburgh, so, well that's one of the things I wanted
to ask you about as well. So you think about a university marching band,
you got kids from literally all over the country, sometimes over the world
, and thanksgiving. You know, sometimes it's difficult for kids to get
back home. Yeah, what can you say about thanksgiving at your special time
? Yeah, very special. And that started because I was I had to go down to
school because the u of a games, always the day after c So I had to go
down to school early in the morning I guess and do a couple of final
things in preparation for the game which was here. And uh I was coming
back and I drove past what Well it's like where water burger is. And as I
drove past I thought I saw several of our students sitting in the
restaurant so I did a U. Turn and went back and parked and went in and
said what are you guys doing? Well we're having turkey dinner. I said like
heck you are come on you're coming to my house. And that started it. And
literally this year
is the first time we haven't had our alums here but We still have four
alums that come to our house every thanksgiving and have for 35 years. And
because they were from Chicago area couldn't get home because of the game
on friday. And so we said well hey you're part of our family you're going
to. So I started then with the band and making sure that everybody who was
out of the state had a place to go on thanksgiving if they couldn't get
home. And if they didn't have a place to go they came to our house and
we'd have as many as 18 or so once in a while. 20 some a couple of times
but generally no formal table of course lots of little tables and uh we
even had some parents come one time they came to visit their son uh from
New Mexico I believe and uh they didn't have a place to go for
thanksgiving. So they came to. So it was a special time and people still,
when we get emails, they always mentioned that that was something that
they really look forward to and they knew if they had a place to go to and
the band students were awesome and opening up their homes and we had so
many local students that everyone was pretty well covered. If you weren't
, then it was your fault because there were lots of places that you could
go. Well, it was
similar to another thing that I started, well just a few years after I got
here and that was a kind of a built in tutoring system because that I
think it was like either my second or third year, I had a couple of
students who were struggling and having trouble in class and I just said,
well, hey, you know what, wait a minute, don't get embarrassed. But I'm
gonna ask the band if anybody can help. So I asked the band has anybody
had such and such a class from such and such a teacher. Well, yeah, I had
that of course, no, no, no, no good come help. And they would set up. And
I, I think over the years, because of that, I don't know that I ever had
anybody flunk out of college that was in the band because we got them help.
Ah not only not only from the class that was they were taking, but I
found out who had that class from that same professor to really help them
get through it. So that was just another thing that we did Brendan. Can
you talk a little bit about your engagement with the band and what that
meant to you? Sure, Well, I'm uh quasi musician, so I didn't have the
expertise that it was necessary to play in a college band, but I did play
clarinet in high school band. And in fact, then we both we went went to
indiana University of Pennsylvania. And at the time
you might want to just hold at the time, they Indiana had the marching 100
And it was all male. Now we're talking in the 60s. So uh that's when I
first became very interested in women's rights and and things that were
important for women to do. And I would not have made the band anyway, I
was not uh talented enough or didn't play, I wouldn't have made passed the
audition. So anyway, but I always had an interest and then when we got
married and actually when we were dating and he was doing the high school
band, I would go and listen and be a part of that. And
just really I the music that you play in a marching band and I like
concert band too. But marching band, it was all very appealing and very
showbiz like. So that had an appeal to me. I always wanted to be more
involved than uh either that neither he nor his graduate assistants would
let me be because I would I would like to look and I was a person who was
concerned about detail and marching steps and whether their shoes were
polished and that sort of thing. So they they always had a story where he
said he had one graduate assistant uh and part of his responsibilities
were to keep me quiet during the uh or to take care of me. So I wouldn't
be offering suggestions when we would go. We had stadium day then which
was the Wednesday of game week, so that was kind of an inside joke and I
took it pretty well but our Children like bob said our our Children were
always involved and a part of everything. Uh we had students who would uh
babysit for them when we had to go to concerts or events and also when we
had to go out of town they might stay over and watch the house and do that
sort of thing. So uh they were my family too and I had my I had a full
time job. I one of the things that was very attractive for me when he was
offered the opportunity to interview for the position um at ut martin, I
also taught at the university and ah I wanted to get my doctorate like bob
was getting his doctorate at that time, you had to do a sabbatical and I
knew I couldn't leave the Children for six months to go with the logical
choice. There was to go to the main university at Ut Knoxville. And uh so
I thought oh well someday I guess maybe I'll get to do it. So when he was
offered this opportunity, uh I had a chance then to get my doctorate and
so I did that for the first few years we were here, our son brian was in,
he was in kindergarten, Michelle was but 1.5 2 years of age and we had one
of our outstanding students from ut martin Danny Lindsay who came and
lived with us and then helped provide childcare so that I could go to
classes and do things. And he also was bob's graduate assistant, so he was
a very important part of our life then too. But writing the dissertation
was really hard doing the course work and teaching
undergrad uh students for my, as part of my assistantship, but having
those blocks of time when I could write and do things that was, that was
difficult and and also still attend Games. I missed two football games in
28 years and the first one I missed because our daughter who had Michelle
had grown and had a former roommate who was getting married uh in Chicago
Chicago. So that had to be 86 and it was the cow game. I think that
decided that we were going to go to the Roosevelt and I missed it and they
didn't cover it in Illinois and oh I was just sick and they were talking
to me on the telephone telling me this is what's happening now. And so
that was a really, really important things. So what was the other game you
missed? Ah The one that decided the 97 Roosevelt. Yeah,
I mean I was ready to say, hey miss a few more and that was, I was in my
profession, it was in the childcare field and I had I was had been given
an opportunity to speak at a conference in Washington, D. C. And that was
set up a year before and something I couldn't back out of. Something like
that. So I had to miss that. So pretty much banned, had a top priority in
our family and everything kind of focused around that and that was our
life, wonderful, great times out of all your accomplishments of the issue
which has given you the most satisfaction.
I know you've probably already answered it. Well,
seeing what my students have become. I mean we have, we have students in
universities all over the country that are directors of bands now and to
be able to look back and see that lineage when we go to Chicago for the
midwest conference? Midwest band and orchestra directors convention? We
have an a. s. unite and they're usually upwards of 40 alums that our band
directors around the country that we meet in Chicago. And we have a whale
of a party um in the american Bandmaster Association which I was very
proudly elected to. It's an elected membership. It's not a, oh you want to
be in that. And um but now we have I think 16 A. S. You passed students
that are also members of the american man Masters Association which is one
of the premier band director associations in the world. And You know there
are only about 250 members total. And for us to have as many as we do from
our time at A. S. U. Is very very rewarding. Ah
Just like I said they're all over the country and and not all of them in
college. But Mark Greer is director of bands at Kalamazoo Michigan has a
marvelous band program and big you know, just Monster man Mike Watts is at
Odessa Permian in texas which is one of the Premier man's in the state of
texas. And so
we also have, well I have junior high teachers that I respect entirely to
that I did. Oh
well maternity leaves for and to put me back in a junior high band room? I
was nervous because here I am retired. And yet what are these youngsters
going to do to me? But they were both very well run programs and so it
just was smooth as silk and we just had a blast. And uh, I did a six month
for
chaparral high school, which she's not a graduate of virus. But now it's
like she was, you know, because she was very appreciative of everything I
did with their program and and I had a great time with those kids, not
something I want to do all year long, but this was a six month thing. And
so it was a lot of fun. But
I, I don't, I just have so many great memories with all of these past
graduates when mama coach and I went on our, a couple of oh tours around
the country with our motor home. We rarely stayed in a motorhome park
because we were in a past students driveway, um, staying in a motel room.
And I mean this was from here to the east Coast, up the east Coast all
the way back through Tennessee and then back home. And we always had
somebody that that would let us pull in the driveway and camp out
now. There are lots of couples that have interacted with the Sandoval
marching band over the years. I mean people that have, you know, it's been
a lot of time together and they've gone off and got married. What can you
to tell us about? It's, well, when we have homecoming, I mean it's really
, really something, but I couldn't begin to count the number of times
we've been named as a grandparent. Uh we've had so many banned marriages
even out of bowl games, the Oklahoma state Oklahoma Oklahoma, sorry,
Oklahoma, when we played them a drum major from Oklahoma and one of my
piccolo players got together and they are still married, I mean, but that
that's even from a meeting of a three day experience. But band people are
different,
they have similar goals and ideas in life just because of the dedication
that it takes to make a good band happen and oh, I mean, hundreds of
banned marriages have happened.
In fact just coming out of passing review on Tuesday night uh this guy
says, hey coach, how you doing, man, I still can never thank you enough
for introducing me to my lovely wife. They've been married 30 years and I
introduced them as freshmen and you know, I kind of forgotten about it,
but once we got the names going and oh boy, then I remembered everything,
but I mean it just goes on and on and that's part of the legacy of the
family. Um I had one um one graduate student whose wife talked to me and
she said, you know, you really should teach a course for the wives of the
graduate assistance on how you survive as a band director's wife. I
haven't had
mothers call me and ah
thank me for taking fear out of there thoughts about their daughter or son
because uh that's another thing I would do is try and meet everybody's
parents at some point, especially if they were entering freshmen and just
convinced them that this is a family that they're getting into this mega
campus which even back early years, it still was awfully big, you know,
comparatively to. But now I mean there are students in band whose
hometowns
are smaller than the university and they've never experienced this kind of
thing. But we established that in band camp before any other students get
on campus this is your family, you find out where people live, how you can
get in touch with them so that you never have fear when you're on this
campus because you've always got somebody you can call and talk to to get
through a class to get through it. A loneliness situation And
that's just why we had such good longevity in the program
bob and I used to go on friday nights that was what we called his, he
called recruitment and we would go to a high school football game. So our
daughter still reminds us that from time to time we didn't go to her high
school games because and she was on the cheer squad because we were going
to see other bands and recruiting. So I had to try to give equal time for
all that. But that was an important thing to do to one of the ways I did
recruit because it was enjoyable. Brenda loves football. She liked to go
once in a while. It was great that we could leave after halftime at a game
instead of staying till the very end. Like we always had to do with a S. U.
Games and win or lose. But um I could go and talk to both bands and
directors uh and just my presence there. Hey hey man coaches here say hi
to coach, you know it was a real soft sell. You didn't say you need to
come to A S. U. In fact something bob always did. That was very special.
Um He would say and he kind of alluded to this with one of the other
questions you had asked, I don't care where you go to school but being the
band you know and if you come to A. S. U. Then being my band but if if not
just don't give up your your instrument, don't give up that that part of
you. So that was kind of just promoting it and lots of people are in
community bands now as a result of that, I always made sure that the bowl
game was in fact a thank you to the band for their hard work throughout
the season and we always put them up in knots high class but a very good
motel hotel and although most of the times we traveled by bus. But uh, but
that was fine to that, That's part of the experience. That's part of the
bonding. That brings a band together. And I always felt like if we had a
bowl game man, my band next year is gonna be fabulous because they'll come
back, they'll come back man. And that was something that in, in retrospect
was a very important aspect of our acknowledgment system where we gave the
juniors a watch that had the Sun devil logo on it. It's a little band logo
and then we gave the seniors a jacket, which actually it costs more than
the watches. But they thought it was the other way around. I never told
him any different. Um, And that we would have between 60 and 70 juniors
and 50 or less or just in that area. 50 Seniors in a university that was
very demanding. one of our biggest majors was engineering. Well. By the
time they get to be a junior holy Mackerel, they are so inundated with
classes and hard classes, you know. Um, but we managed to hold our own and
then when had announced that he had 50 seniors, wow. I mean that in five
years, that's just amazing. That's just great. But that shows that the
program is really flourishing and uh, the growth is, is going to continue
its astounding. Um, Oh, who's the coach I'm trying to think of came from
Boise state
Coach Carter came over to talk to the band one day and the band was in
sectionals as usual. He came over and said coach, how many freshman do you
have in this man? About 150.
What? 150.
How do you handle them? I said well I carry a big stick. He said yeah I've
heard you over here and I've told my guys several times they don't shape
up, you're gonna send them over here. But um He, he was just amazed
because he had, he said he had 23 freshmen and he didn't know how to
handle them.
But then one of the big problems he had was the me generation had started
yeah it's all about me, it's what do I get? You know how much am I going
to get in the Ariana? And he really had a hard time with that. But my kids
knew coming in because we didn't have scholarships for the band and that
was my choice because there isn't anybody in the band that's better than
anybody else. Then once we started to get alumni donations I was able to
ah give the section leaders a stipend of just a couple $100 but it helped
them buy books and that sort of thing. But as far as scholarships are
concerned we just didn't have any and verdi Dickie who gave The current
ban when Jim Hudson took over $750,000 check. I saw him a few months after
that and I said Bertie, I got to tell you what you did for the band is
just unbelievable. But where were you when I was here? He said coach, you
had a great band. You didn't need my help. I didn't know whether to kick
him or kiss him.
I really enjoyed when I started the parents night and the parents would
come to a rehearsal or parents weekend. It was in conjunction with the A.
S. U. Parents weekend and they would come and come to rehearsal on friday
and they had marched pregame with their son or daughter. And in some cases
when we had two sets, it's got a little tricky sometimes, but we'd adopt,
somebody would adopt a set of parents and they've marched right in beside
him with pregame because what can you do to pre game? You know, you can't
hurt it. It doesn't ever change on purpose because that's tradition. But
uh that last year We had almost 800 people on the field between the
parents and the band and I would have parents calling me in august hey,
when we got to make our plane reservations, you know? And so it was, it
was just a trip and I think it did more for the students that did for the
parents actually because it made the students and I tried to get the
students to think about, you know, don't be embarrassed because your
parents are here man. I mean what a compliment to you that your parents
want to come and march with you in this man. I mean you've got to think of
it that way. And
I said plus you know, it may help you get more at christmas or something,
you know, uh so that was a big event that we did
that I was always very proud of. I had a lot of fun with. Now they don't
do it anymore because
there's athletic concerns about people being on the field and getting hurt.
I just think that's a bunch of Bs, you know, and they don't know what
they're missing. So hey, it's gone. But that's one of the few because when
Jim Hudson came to A. S. U. Five years ago, the first thing he did was
call me and said coach, we need to talk. So we had about a 3.5 hour
meeting and he wrote down, he said, I want to know every tradition you
ever started. He wrote them all down and now they're just about all back
and parents night is one that's not back but
or not back the same way. You know, it's not that they stopped doing that
, but just what we did with having in March,
it would be silly for me do not openly admit that I'm one of the luckiest
guys in the world. Not only have I had this wonderful, marvelous job all
these years, and my job is prior to this were training for this. So they
were good too. But to meet Brenda and actually be told by my father, why
haven't you checked that young lady out? Because she taught in the same
school system that he taught him. And so I checked her out And 46 years
later, we're still checking each other out and and uh she has been my rock.
Uh she's heard every
concern I've had about this job, my career, whatever. And yet she
supported me every step of the way and that's just the only way it could
have worked because
yeah, my job is very focused and very oh central to our lives. But I also
knew that she was very important in her work. She is now chairman of the
board, for God's sake. So you don't just get that for nothing, you know?
And so she she has, it's just been fantastic support for me and
any band director out there. Mhm. and make sure you pick the right one
because if they're not Supporting Minutes, a hard road to go, right, I'm
lucky.
Okay, thank you,
bingo.
Mm hmm.
A
Okay.
Yeah,
mm hmm.