WEBVTT

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okay,

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mm hmm.

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So today is Friday, 2, 2011. We're
conducting an interview for the Arizona

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State University retirees association
video history project. We're located

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today at the home of dr robert coach
Fleming. I'm Michael Thompson a issue

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alumnus, former drum major, the
Sandoval marching band and also current

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voice of the son of a marching band.
The technical support today staff

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include john McIntosh who's operating
the camera, roger carter who is

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responsible for the audio and then
Dave shortly who's the director also in

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attendance is linda Vance coy, Chair
the issue retirees association video

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history project. So coach, we're gonna
jump into the interview once you do

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go ahead and introduce yourself
stating your name and positions

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dr robert coach Fleming. I was
associate director of bands and now

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associate director of bands emeritus
At ASU. And was there from 1974 until

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2002

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And had a wonderful 28 years of making
music with great students like

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Michael T.

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So I want to talk about a little bit
about where you're born and raised

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and if you can share with me a little
bit of information about, you know,

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how you developed your um how you
developed your desire for education and

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music. We lived in a very small town
outside of Pittsburgh called

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Aspinwall

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and to give you an idea of how small
the town was, My brother and I were

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the paperboys. He did the, what was
the eastern side of town. I did the

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western side of town and

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usually had real good things happen at
christmas because that's when you

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got all your tips you see and you
learn you learned a whole lot from doing

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that. He he and I both worked at
Irwin's Pharmacy in downtown Aspen Mall

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as a second job because my dad was a
teacher and mother didn't work. Um

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but that was their choice. I mean it's
not that she didn't want to but you

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just didn't do it back then. She was a
mom full time mom. And

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so tom and I worked to help pay for
things that we had at home and we

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never really wanted for anything

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but we got an unbelievable

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ah

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oh what am I trying to example to
follow And my dad who taught private

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lessons every saturday all day long
right there in the house and

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to mother who was always practicing
organ because she played at at the

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church as well as singing in the choir
and two I mean that just instilled

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in us the desire to practice, I
practiced up in the attic and my brother

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practiced in the basement. My first
flute was given to me by our doctor,

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our family doctor, he had a wonderful
haynes flute which back then was

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just the best you could get and I said
dad why do I have to go to the

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attic? That because I want people to
hear the beautiful flute sounds

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coming out of the attic and of course
once my brother heard that he'd go

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down in the basement and just splat
splat splat splat. So we had a thing

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going about that, but

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they taught me just the bare facts of
how to grow up and and what to

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expect out of life and what to look
for in life. And so I feel very, very

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fortunate that we had a wonderful
childhood, you know, back in the day. Uh

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, there was no, there wasn't even
school busses. I mean we walked to

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school or rode our bike And I could go
to the elementary school, which was

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like four blocks west. The junior high
was kind of close to our house and

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the senior high was a few blocks to
the east, but we always walked and

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that's just what everybody did. You
didn't, When you became 16, you didn't

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get a car, He walked, you still
walked. And I, I just, that's one of the

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big things that's changed in our world
and our country. And but I'm glad

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we came up through the way we did.

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My dad was my band director through
elementary junior high and high school.

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 And

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once in a while that was a good thing

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outside of band because he'd go to the
teachers I was having trouble with

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and he kind of convinced them that I
needed a little extra help. And so

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that they would help me a little
extra. But I was also very careful not to

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do anything wrong in anybody else's
class because dad was the first one

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who found out about it and boy then
when I got home and mother heard about

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it. Oh there were some chores that
needed to be done right away, you

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weren't a troublemaker. Well you know
I was the baby of the family and tom

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would do things to get me in trouble
uh but he would keep me out of

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trouble because Gi was a flute player.
Well you know there was a certain

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stigma about being a male flute player
that back then uh I didn't really

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comprehend or understand much but my
brother was three years older so he

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did and ah he protected me more than I
knew actually from kids saying

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weird things about you know maybe in a
flute player, I always thought it

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was because all the rest of them were
girls and that was great by me hey,

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you know, um but

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and tom was, he was trombonist and I
went to muskingum college on a, on a

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music scholarship full ride. In fact
they gave him his own based on bone

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as part of his scholarship and he was
a band director in murrysville

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pennsylvania for most of his teaching
career and piano tuner on the side.

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I tried several times to teach me how
to do that, but I didn't really

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grasp the situation um but he passed
away several years ago and ah

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both mom and dad have been gone for
quite some time but they were

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wonderful people, wonderful parents,

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oh yes, yep, but that conducted the
choir and mom sang in it and uh of

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course I, both, my brother and I were
in the the young peoples choirs and

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so on, so uh and that was good at the
time, I was like, you know, why do

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we have to do this? Well when I went
into college then and we started

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learning music theory and that sort of
thing real heavy, I realized how

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much being in the choir had helped and
pitch notation and relative pitch

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and no being able to sing pitch
intervals without thinking that much about

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it, so being in the choir was was a
good thing for us, but we never, I was

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in league club in college as an
undergrad, but that's about all then flute

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just took over and I was practicing 56
hours a day because I had remained

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first year because all the rest of
them were girls and they all wanted my

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position and I wasn't gonna let that
happen, so I just practiced my tail

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off and I never said anything but
first chair through high school or

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college and went on to play
professionally with the wheeling Symphony and

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uh came to a

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realization that I couldn't be perfect
every time I went on the stage

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because if you're going to be a
professional musician, there are no

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mistakes, they don't happen, it just
doesn't happen and bob chris, who was

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my conductor of the wheeling Symphony
made that point very clear when I

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was going out on stage to play Peter
and the Wolf and the flute solo and

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Peter and the Wolf is that's one that
everybody who auditions for an

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orchestra has to play that as an
audition piece because it's it's tough.

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And he tapped me on the shoulder and
he said Fleming and we were good

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friends. I was

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fortunate too have become very good
friends with him in my time there, but

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he said Fleming the bird poops and
you're out and that's all thanks. So I

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went out on stage, the bird had a
flawless flight. Uh

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but yet the more I thought about that,
the more I thought, I don't know

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that I can do this the rest of my
life. And so I started looking for

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teaching jobs and got the one in Ut
martin,

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taught for a couple of years in high
school in pennsylvania. And then I

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got my master's degree at Carnegie
Mellon University and went to the

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University of Tennessee at martin
Tennessee. And they lovingly called my

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first band there the stumbling 38 And
they even got that wrong because

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there were only 37, but I had a great
seven year career. They're working

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to learn a lot myself and started
working on my doctorate at southern

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Illinois in carbondale,

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how did he get the name? Coach asked
him that question. So how did you get

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the name coach? Um,

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when I was teaching at midland
pennsylvania, very small school in the

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south, southeastern southwestern
corner of pennsylvania, East Liverpool.

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Ohio was only 10 miles away and we
were playing them in a playoff game

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for the state championship. So I went
down too easily report to watch the

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band and literally I was up in the
stands and the band wasn't very good.

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So I'm thinking, okay, what do I do
now? And I look over the back of the

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stands, here is the football team and
they're running this play and I saw

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you lateral here and then the lateral
back there and then the guy,

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okay, wow, that's really something. So
I watched the band a little longer

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. I looked back, they're doing that
same play and I tied it one more time.

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Yeah, they were doing that same play.
So I said, okay, I'm out of here.

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And I went right to our coach's house
and I said, coach, I, I think you

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might want to pattern this play out
and draw it out. Yeah, come on in. So

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I drew out the play of what they were
doing, long story short championship

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game, we set up, We were ahead by two.
All they needed was field goal and

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they had the ball, there was like 15
seconds left in the game. They tried

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this play that I had shown the coach
we had a defense for it. We

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intercepted one of those backward
laterals, took it in the end zone game

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over the team came into the stands and
carried me onto the field

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because they knew that I had given him
this play and at their banquet they

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made me an honorary coach. And so the
band kids there that 2nd year

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started calling me coach. I didn't
mind. I mean that was fine with me and

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when I came here,

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when you went to Tennessee, when I
went to Tennessee sorry. Um one of my

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kids came that was in the middle and
band to school at Tennessee and he

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started calling me coach. Well then
the kids in the band well they would

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ask can we call him coach? Well sure
that's yeah that's great. And I

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always felt like it was a good
recruiting tool because I could go to a

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high school football game and the
director said hey coach is here

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everybody say hi to coach. They knew I
was the band director at A. S. U.

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They didn't know what my name was but
they didn't need to, I was coach,

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that was fine and they could always
remember that. And

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so then when I came here, Danny
Lindsay came with us and he was my grad

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assistant and he was out on the field
and coach, what are we gonna do

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about this? And I could just see heads
turn what do you call him you know

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? And uh and that than how it
continued and so I've been coached for, Well

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, probably what, 50 years, 40 years,
45 years, 43 years, probably.

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So, but that's that's how it all
started. And it really, uh,

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I feel like

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it's an honor to be called coach first
of all, because look who people

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call coach. I mean they call their
football coach, their baseball coach,

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the basketball coach. But it's a
person higher than just another person.

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So that already puts me up a little
bit in the echelon of things as far as

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I feel. And and it is an honor to have
high school students who like I've

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conducted maybe a district, all state
honor band or uh, all state band or

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something and that they'll see me 35
years later and I know they don't

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remember my name, but they are able to
go wait a minute coach. I was in

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your band and yada yada yada. And
remember me. And of course, I always say

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yeah.

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And then I guess at the instrument,
which most of the time, right? But ah

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, but it's just, it's just been
something that that has made me feel

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special in my life. I mean, you
wouldn't think of anything but calling me

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coach. I mean your kids call me coach,
your Children, you know, your wife

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calls me coach. It's just, that's who
I am.

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I call you coach. Usually when I'm
around band people, but not always know

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at home. It's a stupid,

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so what caused your Tuesday issue? I
got a call from dr Richard Strange,

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who I was, his grad assistant when I
got my master's degree at Carnegie

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Mellon and he said I just got the job
at Arizona State University, would

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you like to come and be my assistant?

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And my first question was, where in
the heck is that? But I came out and

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you know, it wasn't a, you've got it
kind of situation. I came out and

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went through the interview process and
I was lucky enough to be chosen And

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doc and I spent 25 years together.

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So coach, can you think back to when
you first got into the issue and what

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a issue? And you know, the surrounding
area was like actually one of the

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first things we did when we got to
town was to find the stadium and we

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walked out onto the stadium floor and
there was no upper deck, it was just

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the lower deck, but it was still the
most huge stadium I've ever seen in

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my life, You know, so now that it's
even twice as big, uh, it's still, I

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can still remember feeling, you know,
Holy Mackerel, what have I gotten

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myself into, you know? So, um, And my
first band was 128 members, Um,

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which was up eight members from the
band I left at UT Martin because I had

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built it up to 120

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and

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and yet we, we just felt really good
about being here and uh it was

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amazing too be in this part of the
country uh having been born and raised

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back east, it was a whole new world.
My mother thought we were coming out

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to dodge arrows. I had to, I had to, I
even remember there were actually,

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sorry, what do you call them? Uh
hitching posts on the streets of Downtown

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Tempe, I mean actually where you put
the horse on it and walk away from it

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, they were still there When we got
here in 74 and a couple of buildings

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in Downtown Tempe that I had a vespa
motor scooter and I took it to this

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place to get repaired, dirt floor,
main street, dirt floor in this

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building. And so it was, it was a
whole lot different than what I had been

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used to. We were amazed that it was so
flat first of all, and that the

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campus was so succinct because when,
well, you know, Pit University of

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Pittsburgh, I mean, that's just a
tower and that's their campus. Okay, but

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that's one of the few college campuses
that doesn't just sprawl all over

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everything, whereas A S. U. Was very
compact in this square area. Gammage

00:19:55.970 --> 00:20:03.970
Auditorium being one of the corners of
that square and mhm. That that

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impressed me more than anything. The
fact that my office was going to be

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in Gammage Auditorium. I mean this is
one of the finest music halls in the

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world and yet we get to just go down
the elevator out onto the stage, set

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up and perform. I mean no other
college in the country that I know of has

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that and to be in such a marvelous
hall and that was back in the day when

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Chicago Pittsburgh symphony
philadelphia Orchestra would come through here

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and perform and make their tour
recording in Gammage Auditorium because

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it's such a great acoustical property
and so we had just the best there

00:20:50.059 --> 00:20:52.857
was and

00:20:52.890 --> 00:20:57.806
that sure made a lot of things
worthwhile.

00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:02.516
Alright, can we talk a little bit
about your department like the College

00:21:02.549 --> 00:21:04.976
of Music? I don't know what it was
called at the time, but you know what

00:21:05.009 --> 00:21:10.667
that was kind of like back in fact
there was a college of Music and we

00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:16.076
fought long and hard and finally
became a school of music. Um I was again

00:21:16.109 --> 00:21:20.806
very fortunate the

00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:24.056
directors of the School of Music,
which they call them department

00:21:24.089 --> 00:21:32.089
chairman's back then. Um I had very
good ones but I had for the longest

00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:38.417
part of my time, I think 14 years
George Emerson was my department

00:21:38.450 --> 00:21:44.597
chairman and George had the capability
of making any faculty member that

00:21:44.630 --> 00:21:49.516
walked into his office walk out of his
office feeling like he was the only

00:21:49.549 --> 00:21:57.549
person in that school of music that
was worth anything and he had a a way

00:21:57.849 --> 00:22:03.806
about him that congealed the faculty?
So we were a very close knit group

00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:09.957
and supported each other and did
whatever we can for each other to build

00:22:09.990 --> 00:22:15.816
the school of music. I mean, we had,
we had some of the finest teachers in

00:22:15.849 --> 00:22:22.746
the business. Uh, you know, you get
bob spring sample, apathy and joe

00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:25.607
white coat, uh,

00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:27.907
ah,

00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:31.506
trumpet,

00:22:31.539 --> 00:22:39.539
David Hickman. Uh, I mean, these are
known all over the world and people

00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:46.857
come from all over to study with them.
And so we always had good students

00:22:46.890 --> 00:22:54.586
to choose from for membership in the
band program. And we had a very good

00:22:54.619 --> 00:23:00.687
camaraderie. I really did. I mean,
they maybe he didn't like marching band

00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:07.717
, but they respected what I did with
it and how I did it. And so that felt

00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:13.566
good. As far as I was concerned now it
is more a performance oriented

00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:21.599
school of music and music education
has kind of taking a back seat maybe,

00:23:22.940 --> 00:23:29.546
although I think it's starting to turn
around and we're starting to get

00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:36.367
more people interested in becoming
music teachers. But for a while I think

00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:42.447
that the focus of the school of music
was not in that area. And that was

00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:47.766
another reason that I didn't mind
retiring when I did because there were

00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:52.437
some things happening that I couldn't
control. So that's the way they want

00:23:52.470 --> 00:23:56.907
to go. That's the way they'll go.

00:23:56.940 --> 00:24:00.197
Okay, so let's let's talk about a
little bit about your career progression

00:24:00.230 --> 00:24:04.526
, how did your career progress and
what do you remember most about your

00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:11.286
issue career? Well, my overall career,
I I think I'm somewhat unusual

00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:18.486
maybe In that I've been with the same
woman for 46 years, first of all, um

00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:25.266
who everybody refers to as mama coach,
but uh I've only had three jobs in

00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:31.867
my career, my high school teaching
University of Tennessee at martin and

00:24:31.900 --> 00:24:39.427
ASU and it was kind of one of those
things that my dad always said Give

00:24:39.460 --> 00:24:43.796
yourself five years, no matter what
job you take. And if at the end of

00:24:43.829 --> 00:24:47.467
that five years you could stay there
the rest of your life, you're where

00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:51.177
you should be. And I could have stayed
at Ut martin. I mean it was a

00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:55.967
wonderful job. They they built a new
building for the School of Music. I

00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.197
helped design the band area, the whole
thing. I mean it was it was really

00:25:01.230 --> 00:25:07.276
a nice setting. Great kids from
Tennessee? Oh man, they were, yes ma'am,

00:25:07.309 --> 00:25:12.976
no ma'am kids, you know? And uh but
when doc called and said would I be

00:25:13.009 --> 00:25:20.597
interested in a S. U. Well who
wouldn't, you know? So when I got here, in

00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:25.187
fact Brenda and I have talked about
this, it really only took me about two

00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:32.506
years to decide this is where I'm
going to be the rest of my life because

00:25:32.539 --> 00:25:37.417
There was just a good feeling and the
students that I've worked with over

00:25:37.450 --> 00:25:45.347
the years, which I have like 1200 on
email right now of alarms and uh, but

00:25:45.380 --> 00:25:49.306
they were just nothing but the best,
you know, I, I don't know whether you

00:25:49.339 --> 00:25:53.806
were there. Do you remember the name
dan? Mm hmm. Okay. He's the only

00:25:53.839 --> 00:26:01.839
student I ever kicked out of bed In 28
years. And um,

00:26:02.539 --> 00:26:09.937
that story lasted quite a few years
and the incidents never happened again

00:26:09.970 --> 00:26:17.970
either. But ah, but I just, I marvel
at the students I had and what

00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:26.940
they're doing now like yourself who
would have ever thought,

00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.796
tell us about some of the people who
had the greatest impact on your years

00:26:31.829 --> 00:26:36.607
in the issue. George Emerson,

00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:39.207
dick, strange

00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:47.016
fred miller who went to san Diego
state I think after he left here. And uh

00:26:47.049 --> 00:26:52.707
, Gina Lombardi, who was the orchestra
director, my first bunch of years,

00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:58.097
extremely kind gentleman and a
wonderful musician and had a fabulous

00:26:58.130 --> 00:27:02.667
orchestra. I would just go up and
stand in the back of the room and listen

00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:06.036
to the orchestra rehearsed just
because it was really good and I like what

00:27:06.069 --> 00:27:12.707
he did. I liked how he conducted and
ran the orchestra. Um, Mladic or

00:27:12.740 --> 00:27:16.476
ladic or there's a guy that you could
walk across campus with and he knew

00:27:16.509 --> 00:27:20.976
everybody that walked by him and I'm
going, how do you know all these

00:27:21.009 --> 00:27:23.006
people?

00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:27.357
It's all smoking the mirrors. But

00:27:27.390 --> 00:27:33.107
he, he became a very good friend. He
even wanted me to ride. He was

00:27:33.140 --> 00:27:38.397
homecoming parade chairman, you know
hey coach come on get up in this car

00:27:38.430 --> 00:27:45.326
with me, I can't do that you know. But
He he was a good man to work for

00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.207
two and

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:54.276
you know there jim excuse me john
Spinny who was a gymnastic coach at A. S.

00:27:54.309 --> 00:27:59.806
U. Became a marvelous friend. Just saw
him a couple of days ago actually

00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:07.839
and uh frank kush you know I remember
standing in the tunnel

00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:14.276
the day or the game after he had been
fired. Remember the crowd was all

00:28:14.309 --> 00:28:20.036
blue because he wore a blue sweater to
the previous game. Hey you remember

00:28:20.069 --> 00:28:25.097
that he's standing back in the tunnel
and the team had gone out and I

00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:30.306
walked back. I said frank aren't you
going out

00:28:30.339 --> 00:28:35.867
when they're ready? I said what do you
mean? He said just wait And we

00:28:35.900 --> 00:28:40.226
stood there for the next 30 seconds
just listening to the crowd and

00:28:40.259 --> 00:28:46.707
building and building. We want bush,
we want kush! He looked at me and he

00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:52.597
said okay I think it's time and he ran
out and I have never heard that

00:28:52.630 --> 00:28:58.107
stadium so loud. Even the win over
Nebraska was not as loud as the time

00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:04.407
frank kush ran out that night with his
blue sweater on and

00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:11.607
that's just another little memory that
sits back there you know I just got

00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:18.336
thousands of them. It's just been such
a good experience here and will

00:29:18.369 --> 00:29:21.907
always be grateful for that.

00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:25.917
I've got one more question for you and
I want to bring in mama coach. No,

00:29:25.950 --> 00:29:30.306
not not one more total just uh, so how
did they actually change from your

00:29:30.339 --> 00:29:37.717
arrival time until you departed? Wow,
let me count the ways there are so

00:29:37.750 --> 00:29:41.506
many ways to count size

00:29:41.539 --> 00:29:48.397
beauty. I mean, I always thought that
our campus and in fact, I was almost

00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:53.667
lobbying for them to stop with all the
flowers, give the money to the

00:29:53.700 --> 00:29:57.927
students. You know, we don't need all
those flowers, but it was always

00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:02.986
such a beautiful campus clean all the
time clean. And I've been on some

00:30:03.019 --> 00:30:07.476
campuses, well where I got my doctor
to southern, southern Illinois and

00:30:07.509 --> 00:30:13.607
Carbondale, um, one of the ugliest
campuses I've ever been on in my life

00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:19.056
because it was so unkempt. I mean, it
just nobody did anything to keep it

00:30:19.089 --> 00:30:27.089
up and uh, mhm. So I always admired
that about s you back in the day

00:30:28.339 --> 00:30:33.347
the university cared about its
students. It really did. I mean, you had

00:30:33.380 --> 00:30:38.937
people like administrators who would
walk out on campus and talk to

00:30:38.970 --> 00:30:46.970
students and you know, in my field I
was always privileged to know

00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.016
somebody as I walked across as
somebody, hey coach. How you doing? Well,

00:30:52.049 --> 00:30:58.967
sure I had at that point in time,
several 100 in the band and of course,

00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:04.246
by the time I retired, we had a
monster band. So yeah, there was bound to

00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:10.586
be somebody that would know me. But um
but I feel like this day and age,

00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:17.707
um the university, it is not as
student oriented as it used to be. That's

00:31:17.740 --> 00:31:20.707
just that's just a gut feeling. I
mean, it's the largest university in the

00:31:20.740 --> 00:31:28.740
world, well maybe in the country, I
know that, but Mhm. You know, are we

00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.286
able to take care of the students?
Like we used to be able to take care of

00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.957
them? That's just a question I have in
my mind, I'm not going to find the

00:31:37.990 --> 00:31:45.026
answer, I'm sure, right, President
Crow is evidently doing a fabulous job

00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:49.607
of raising money for the university
and

00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:53.427
keeping things going and adding new
things all the time, which you have to

00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:59.316
do to stay alive in this business. But
I wonder if it's become too much of

00:31:59.349 --> 00:32:06.687
a business and not enough of a school
of education and that's just the old

00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:12.786
man in me talking, you know, I'm from
the old school, I'm a Yes sir, no

00:32:12.819 --> 00:32:16.006
sir, yes ma'am, no ma'am, kind of
person because that's the way I was

00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:20.316
brought up, you didn't even think of
calling your next door neighbor by

00:32:20.349 --> 00:32:27.707
their first name. Uh it was mr so and
so mrs so and so period and uh

00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:32.536
that's just the way I was brought up,
um that's the way I think it is. I

00:32:32.569 --> 00:32:35.447
wore a shirt and tie to school, people
ridiculed me, What are you doing

00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:41.647
here in Arizona for God's sakes,
That's fine. That's just me. If I'm in

00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:46.046
front of a class, I'm demanding that
they respect me. Well, how can I do

00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:54.079
that if I'm in T shirts and jeans? Uh,
can't. So I Did draw the line

00:32:54.329 --> 00:32:58.766
though at the Marching Field. Yes, I
was in T shirts and shorts because it

00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:06.207
was 114 and hotter than you know what?

00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.427
Yeah. Alright coach, what would you,
what kind of advice would you give to

00:33:10.460 --> 00:33:15.006
young people in choosing their college
in the career? That's very easy and

00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.086
, and I would look them right in the
eye and look their parents right in

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:25.357
the eye and say go to school where you
want to go to school because it's

00:33:25.390 --> 00:33:29.806
the most important years of your life
really, when you think about it,

00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:37.839
whether it be four or 5 or seven or 12
or whatever, but I always

00:33:37.940 --> 00:33:43.387
tried to make them understand that
that was an important decision and no

00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:46.857
matter what you're gonna get from this
school or that school, if if you

00:33:46.890 --> 00:33:49.627
get a lot of money from one school and
you don't want to be there, you're

00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:53.836
not going to succeed, you're not gonna
do well. Uh it's gonna be like, why

00:33:53.869 --> 00:33:59.016
am I here all the time instead of gee?
I wish I'd have gone there. So that

00:33:59.049 --> 00:34:07.049
was always my biggest advice and I
think parents really appreciated that.

00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.407
So is there a special event that
stands out in your memory every time of

00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:19.307
the issue, you know, you hear this all
the time that there are too many

00:34:19.340 --> 00:34:27.340
Special events to pick 1? Well I can
pick three actually, four, Uh, Rose

00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:30.006
bowl,

00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.247
the

00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:37.706
receiving the subtler trophy, which is
the Heisman Trophy of the band

00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:44.736
world, which is voted on by your
peers. And that even makes it more

00:34:44.769 --> 00:34:49.557
exciting as far as I'm concerned to be
one of the finest marching band

00:34:49.590 --> 00:34:52.907
programs in the country

00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:56.787
And the 97 Rose Bowl

00:34:56.820 --> 00:35:00.206
and then the

00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:07.807
performance by the symphonic band at
Midwest Band Clinic in Chicago

00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.247
college marching band. I mean they
don't have contests where you can go

00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:18.807
compete against other bands, you know.
But the subtler trophy is,

00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:24.586
that's it. There is no greater award
that can be given to any university

00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:28.997
marching band, that's the top. You'll
only get it once, you know, it's not

00:35:29.030 --> 00:35:33.206
like you can try again six years
later.

00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:38.057
So to have received that, which has
now been put in the Hall of Fame in

00:35:38.090 --> 00:35:42.706
the athletic department, which is
really amazing. I mean that's just

00:35:42.739 --> 00:35:48.887
wonderful to have that trophy in the
Hall of Fame. And

00:35:48.920 --> 00:35:56.796
yeah, in perpetuity is a word, we
never think about the scholarships that

00:35:56.829 --> 00:36:03.896
I'm able to give five scholarships a
year comes from the alumni donations.

00:36:03.929 --> 00:36:10.896
That is now in perpetuity. So they'll
be able to give those out forever.

00:36:10.929 --> 00:36:16.586
See you don't think that that will
ever happen to you? The subtler trophy

00:36:16.619 --> 00:36:20.896
is in the Hall of Fame forever.

00:36:20.929 --> 00:36:28.307
That's my trophy. You know, and
although it also, we had to have a good

00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:33.097
history, so it wasn't just mine, but
it was the history of the band

00:36:33.130 --> 00:36:38.197
brought it to them prominent point,
but

00:36:38.230 --> 00:36:42.296
I'll stand there and say.

00:36:42.329 --> 00:36:46.997
And uh, the Sunday with marching band
was the first team in the PAC 10 and

00:36:47.030 --> 00:36:51.467
now the PAC 12 to receive that trophy,
is that correct? Yes. First band

00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:55.637
and there's only been one other and
that was U. C. L. A. Just a few years

00:36:55.670 --> 00:37:03.670
ago I received it. Um, but there
haven't been, I'm on the committee, so I

00:37:03.969 --> 00:37:08.597
know who gets nominated. But uh,

00:37:08.630 --> 00:37:15.467
I, That's the only two, the background
on the midwest band directors

00:37:15.500 --> 00:37:19.876
conference. What happens there, you
know, the high school groups go there

00:37:19.909 --> 00:37:24.887
, But you talk about colleges, I
didn't see any colleges there when I went.

00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:31.396
 Very few colleges go. It's oh,

00:37:31.429 --> 00:37:37.467
it's a conference that again, has
grown beyond anything we ever thought it

00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:44.296
would be. And in fact they're now
meeting in the historic center, which is

00:37:44.329 --> 00:37:48.646
this giant conference center Because
they had to, I mean, they have

00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:56.597
upwards, I think last year almost 8000
it's a band Orchestra convention

00:37:56.630 --> 00:38:02.017
directors convention and they
literally come from all over the world and

00:38:02.050 --> 00:38:08.356
to perform there. You have to submit
tapes and be evaluated and be asked

00:38:08.389 --> 00:38:12.646
to come and give a concert there. So
it's, it's not something you can just

00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:18.486
say, you know, hey, what about us?
Excuse me. And

00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:24.977
it runs from Wednesday through
saturday and orchestras go usually

00:38:25.010 --> 00:38:33.010
Wednesday part of thursday and then
thursday night jazz bands mhm begin

00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:39.657
and then contract bands are throughout
the next couple of days and they're

00:38:39.690 --> 00:38:46.117
, you know, really top notch groups.
Originally, it was to provide band

00:38:46.150 --> 00:38:49.686
directors with an audible

00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:56.597
experience about what's new in the
composition world as far as band is

00:38:56.630 --> 00:39:02.796
concerned and you had to play like On
your concert that you gave, you had

00:39:02.829 --> 00:39:08.986
to play at least five new pieces that
nobody's heard before, you know that

00:39:09.019 --> 00:39:15.756
the publisher has now ready to print
and, and so we went there to learn

00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:21.017
all this new music and get ideas of
what we might like our band to play.

00:39:21.050 --> 00:39:26.697
That's still the case, but it's not as
necessary as it used to be, mainly

00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:33.907
because there are so many places you
can go now to hear ideas of tunes and

00:39:33.940 --> 00:39:38.356
things that you might want your band
to do, but it was very prestigious to

00:39:38.389 --> 00:39:41.387
perform there.

00:39:41.420 --> 00:39:49.420
That's the place where the composer uh
john we played his new piece called

00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:55.447
celebrations and he just came running
down the aisle after my cut off and

00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:59.787
I saw him coming and he's a big big
guy, I saw him coming and then I saw

00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:05.057
the tears in his face and my first
thought was, oh, what have I done? You

00:40:05.090 --> 00:40:11.907
know? And then he just bear hugged me
and just everything changes in your

00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:18.276
mind in an instant of, I must have
done good

00:40:18.309 --> 00:40:21.577
favorite show. Oh,

00:40:21.610 --> 00:40:26.677
so you can think back to like the
most, probably the

00:40:26.710 --> 00:40:34.477
mhm Pagliacci and uh,

00:40:34.510 --> 00:40:37.227
I don't remember the other tunes that
were in that show. Do you remember

00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:39.776
my,

00:40:39.809 --> 00:40:43.776
I don't think I was, I thought you
were going the same way from when I was

00:40:43.809 --> 00:40:46.307
My

00:40:46.340 --> 00:40:53.887
favorite. My favorite year was Bob's
final year, the 201,

00:40:53.920 --> 00:41:00.086
2002 season because he chose uh, all
of his favorite tunes to do for all

00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:06.807
the shows what he didn't consider or
maybe he did consider, but some uh,

00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:12.546
student pointed it out, he chose all
of the tunes that turned out to be

00:41:12.579 --> 00:41:16.747
the hardest tunes, the most demanding
tunes naturally. Those were going to

00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:23.227
be probably your favorites. So the
students who were in that final year of

00:41:23.260 --> 00:41:28.896
his career really got to work out and
really it was beautiful and well and

00:41:28.929 --> 00:41:34.117
I took it one step further because I
wanted the alumni to feel an

00:41:34.150 --> 00:41:40.927
involvement in my last year. So I went
back into my archives and pulled

00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:47.177
out the drill that we did to those
numbers and just, you know, enlarged it

00:41:47.210 --> 00:41:51.767
to fit the size of the group we now
had. So they didn't alarms could sit

00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:57.666
there and say, hey, we did that drill,
you can't do that drill, we did

00:41:57.699 --> 00:42:04.376
that drill. Um But they I think they
really enjoyed that aspect of the

00:42:04.409 --> 00:42:08.666
season that they got to see some of
their own drills

00:42:08.699 --> 00:42:12.197
that they did when they were in school
and nobody else would remember that

00:42:12.230 --> 00:42:20.077
you know. Huh. But yeah I you know
then to just go back to that favorite

00:42:20.110 --> 00:42:24.267
show thing ah

00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:29.807
Boy Pagliacci came to my mind because
that would probably be my favorite

00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:36.296
tune because it's operatic in nature
and yet the band played it so

00:42:36.329 --> 00:42:41.256
magnificent magnificently that people
didn't even think well that's a

00:42:41.289 --> 00:42:44.836
classical tune. What are you playing
that for on the football field? I

00:42:44.869 --> 00:42:49.427
mean they just didn't think anything
it was just a gorgeous melody that

00:42:49.460 --> 00:42:53.477
was played really well and robert e
was a drum major and he wore a clown

00:42:53.510 --> 00:42:59.146
outfit with the big red nose and um I
mean that was Pagliacci of course

00:42:59.179 --> 00:43:02.677
but uh

00:43:02.710 --> 00:43:08.066
I think also great gate of Kiev was in
that show and it was generally a

00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:14.566
classical show but that would probably
be my favorite

00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:20.267
other than your own a. S. U. Band.
What is the best band, college band

00:43:20.300 --> 00:43:25.117
you've seen? Mhm. Where do they? You
know you get the michigan Ohio state

00:43:25.150 --> 00:43:32.316
some of those yeah and they all have
their own style about things. There

00:43:32.349 --> 00:43:39.006
are a lot of great university bands in
the country and they have every

00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:47.039
every man really has its own style,
its own way to do things. Um, when we

00:43:47.539 --> 00:43:52.767
were going up against Michigan and,
and I always felt like, yeah, the band

00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:57.217
was going up against their band, you
know, we controlled pregame and

00:43:57.250 --> 00:44:02.997
halftime by darn we better win both.
And, but the University of Michigan

00:44:03.030 --> 00:44:09.756
came in and they did a show that made
no sense in that stadium in the Rose

00:44:09.789 --> 00:44:15.876
Bowl because it's such a low bowl and
I knew that and you know, had been

00:44:15.909 --> 00:44:21.997
there before and seen it. And so we
did a totally different show. We

00:44:22.030 --> 00:44:27.497
spelled out Rose Bowl, but I knew how
to spell it out so that even the low

00:44:27.530 --> 00:44:35.530
seating was able to see it. And I
think our show was much more impressive

00:44:35.699 --> 00:44:40.256
than the University of Michigan show.
And that was what I was going after

00:44:40.289 --> 00:44:46.057
when a higher state in 97. Um,

00:44:46.090 --> 00:44:50.947
oddly enough, I had never really heard
the Ohio State Man in person. I've

00:44:50.980 --> 00:44:56.467
heard recordings out the wazoo, but
I've never heard him in person. And

00:44:56.500 --> 00:45:02.597
their director, john Woods, who just
retired this year. Um, there's a dear

00:45:02.630 --> 00:45:08.166
dear friend, respected colleagues and
that band in its own right is

00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:12.756
literally one of the finest in the
world. Okay. But they don't have any

00:45:12.789 --> 00:45:18.827
woodwinds. They're all brass. That
creates a totally different sound. And

00:45:18.860 --> 00:45:25.787
the sound that they like to have is a
a mellow sound as compared to what

00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:32.256
we get in our group with the woodwinds
that we had

00:45:32.289 --> 00:45:40.289
just a fuller richer concert band
style approach to it. And so so when we

00:45:41.769 --> 00:45:48.856
performed against a higher state um I
felt like we were the better band.

00:45:48.889 --> 00:45:55.646
Uh Now I never told john that I never
will tell john that because in their

00:45:55.679 --> 00:46:01.747
own right they were just as good as we
were. We couldn't do what they did

00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:07.827
and they can't do what we do just
because of the makeup of the band. Um

00:46:07.860 --> 00:46:15.637
There are some really really good
bands that are never heard of. I saw

00:46:15.670 --> 00:46:20.747
northwestern Louisiana State
University at negative

00:46:20.780 --> 00:46:26.546
Louisiana Outstanding marching band.
380

00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:32.717
42 member horn french horn section
that just blew me away and yet nobody

00:46:32.750 --> 00:46:40.307
ever sees them because they're What
Division three football if that even

00:46:40.340 --> 00:46:46.276
and yet their director is just a pied
piper that gets kids in that band

00:46:46.309 --> 00:46:51.847
and they just have fun being in a band
and making good music and ah

00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:59.657
university of texas ban I mean they
filled the field 400 and 40 I think.

00:46:59.690 --> 00:47:07.690
And yet I'll put my band up against
him any day of the week because

00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:12.646
we are as good as we can be at what we
do

00:47:12.679 --> 00:47:19.217
and they are too but we just do it
differently. So two to say there's

00:47:19.250 --> 00:47:27.250
another band better than a S you when
I had it. Ah I don't know of any and

00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:34.447
I know of some who think they are

00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:42.480
that kind of live south of where we're
standing. But that only ever

00:47:42.530 --> 00:47:48.626
happened once where I felt they beat
us. And that was back when Jim keane

00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:51.447
was the director

00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:55.947
and he brought in this show to our
stadium that just knocked me on my

00:47:55.980 --> 00:48:01.396
shorts. I mean it was very good and
very well done and I never let it

00:48:01.429 --> 00:48:07.677
happen again because if anything
propelled me to drive my kids further. It

00:48:07.710 --> 00:48:14.986
was that that we are going to be
better than you of a, without a doubt in

00:48:15.019 --> 00:48:20.956
anybody's mind. And now Jim Hudson has
that very same thing right back

00:48:20.989 --> 00:48:25.336
where it should be.

00:48:25.369 --> 00:48:30.276
So what's your best memory of the
issue

00:48:30.309 --> 00:48:36.836
at A. S. U. What is the best memory
you have of the issue

00:48:36.869 --> 00:48:41.637
every time we beat the U. Of A.

00:48:41.670 --> 00:48:45.137
And Nebraska

00:48:45.170 --> 00:48:51.186
boy. That was an exciting football
game. Holy mackerel. It was one of

00:48:51.219 --> 00:48:56.916
those. Can you believe it the whole
game. And we we couldn't believe it

00:48:56.949 --> 00:49:02.006
really Until that clock went to zero.
And then it was like oh my God, we

00:49:02.039 --> 00:49:09.416
just beat Nebraska you know and shut
him out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um

00:49:09.449 --> 00:49:12.836
The the 28 mandates

00:49:12.869 --> 00:49:17.097
that Iran where we brought the high
school bands in to perform and be

00:49:17.130 --> 00:49:23.747
adjudicated and the mass bands we used
to do, which we had to stop doing

00:49:23.780 --> 00:49:28.657
mainly because the team was winning
and the athletic department didn't

00:49:28.690 --> 00:49:34.367
want to give up those free seats for
the high school dance. Ah, so we just

00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:40.486
had to stop doing the mask ban. But we
still did the band aid and that was

00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:42.997
always a favorite

00:49:43.030 --> 00:49:49.316
time of the year for me. Mm hmm. And
then any bowl game now, you know what

00:49:49.349 --> 00:49:52.836
we talked about,

00:49:52.869 --> 00:50:00.869
uh, memories of things that happened
to me and this is kind of typical

00:50:01.659 --> 00:50:07.666
but it's, it's something that I'll
never forget. I'm now conductor of a

00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:11.436
community band in san Diego, the
coastal community concert band and there

00:50:11.469 --> 00:50:15.247
full time conductor. I fly over on
monday do rehearsal monday night and

00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:22.697
fly back on Tuesday and in preparing
for they always finish with, well,

00:50:22.730 --> 00:50:27.327
not always, but most concerts we
encore with stars and stripes forever.

00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:30.836
Well I wasn't really happy with the
way that we're playing it when I took

00:50:30.869 --> 00:50:37.606
over and so I listened to every
military ban perform stars and stripes on

00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:43.916
cd and the marine band kept coming
back as being man they, that's just the

00:50:43.949 --> 00:50:49.927
way it should be. So I called Michael
colburn who is colonel and the

00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:55.026
conductor of the marine Band. I said,
Michael, I just wanted to let you

00:50:55.059 --> 00:50:59.686
know that I've listened to every armed
forces band play stars and stripes

00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:04.907
and still the marine man plays at the
best of any and there was just

00:51:04.940 --> 00:51:09.517
silence on the phone. I said, Michael,
are you there? He said coach, are

00:51:09.550 --> 00:51:15.336
you losing it? I said, what do you
mean? I play it the way you taught me

00:51:15.369 --> 00:51:18.227
to play it.

00:51:18.260 --> 00:51:23.677
And I just got chills over my whole
body, just, I had forgotten. And then

00:51:23.710 --> 00:51:28.287
he said, do you not remember the butt
kicking? You gave me because my

00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:33.626
tempos were all screwed up on the
stars and stripes in conducting class.

00:51:33.659 --> 00:51:39.166
So here's the guy who is the premier
conductor in the country of military

00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:41.327
ensembles

00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:47.006
and he's saying that he's playing this
national march because of how I

00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:50.026
taught him to do,

00:51:50.059 --> 00:51:55.606
go ahead chop that somebody, you know.
So where did you teach him here? He

00:51:55.639 --> 00:51:59.327
was one of our students,

00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:05.936
he's a conductor of the United States
Marine Band. So that's, you know,

00:52:05.969 --> 00:52:12.206
you talk about feathers in your cap.
Well that's a giant feather in my cap

00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:17.017
and I'm really proud to tell
everybody, you know, Hey, I thought he might

00:52:17.050 --> 00:52:20.407
do that

00:52:20.440 --> 00:52:25.686
Vahtslahv nellie bell, who is another
major composer. We were in new york

00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:32.316
with the Carnegie Mellon Band and he
was conducting our band and I was the

00:52:32.349 --> 00:52:36.867
principal flutist and he got upset
with the band and how they were

00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:39.316
performing

00:52:39.349 --> 00:52:46.396
symphonic movement was a new piece
that he had done and he just,

00:52:46.429 --> 00:52:49.416
you, you conduct,

00:52:49.449 --> 00:52:56.617
huh, Well, he knew I was a graduate
system. So I stood up and I said, uh,

00:52:56.650 --> 00:53:02.157
okay, Ben, let's make the best of it
and all of a sudden he liked what

00:53:02.190 --> 00:53:08.316
they did. So he wanted me to conduct
it on the concert in Carnegie hall

00:53:08.349 --> 00:53:14.637
wow, you know Holy Mackerel, I mean
this was I was like 20 maybe at the

00:53:14.670 --> 00:53:18.717
time and it's like this isn't
happening

00:53:18.750 --> 00:53:26.750
Because it was 114 and hotter than you
know what? But that made our motto

00:53:26.900 --> 00:53:34.637
happen, no sweat, no pride. It was
easy. They thought it was a genius. Our

00:53:34.670 --> 00:53:38.017
our motto

00:53:38.050 --> 00:53:41.517
ah

00:53:41.550 --> 00:53:45.517
why does old age do this to you?

00:53:45.550 --> 00:53:52.006
I expect great things came from my
daughter and the band thinks it came

00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:58.057
from me but I didn't tell him and it
came from her because she looked up

00:53:58.090 --> 00:54:03.867
at me when I was walking her across
the field and she said daddy, you

00:54:03.900 --> 00:54:06.807
expect great things

00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:11.336
and I said you know what? And this was
before cole's came out with noticed

00:54:11.369 --> 00:54:17.407
that and so we had the fraternity make
the sign and put it up on the

00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:23.907
podium, expect great things E G. T.
And that is still with them, they

00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:31.940
still they still respect that and I'm
proud of that too. Uh huh.

00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:42.046
Prior to the southwest I fought with
that Dick and I went over for oh I

00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:46.546
don't know, it seemed like a couple of
years, what should we call this

00:54:46.579 --> 00:54:51.106
band because Sun Devil band just
didn't seem like it needed an explanation

00:54:51.139 --> 00:54:56.006
, it needed something else and

00:54:56.039 --> 00:55:00.506
the University of Arizona took the
pride of Arizona

00:55:00.539 --> 00:55:07.407
like the year before we were I'm going
to do this and so we couldn't use

00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:13.217
that and I just, you know, well, okay,
let's go broader than Arizona, they

00:55:13.250 --> 00:55:17.736
may be the pride of Arizona, but were
the pride of the southwest and so

00:55:17.769 --> 00:55:23.197
that has stuck with them forever and I
think it was probably in 76 when I

00:55:23.230 --> 00:55:29.407
first announced that to the world, in
our announcements,

00:55:29.440 --> 00:55:35.026
okay, the voice of the issue band at
the current time. How about Jim

00:55:35.059 --> 00:55:43.059
Cressman? Oh my, what a you know,
there you go, you talk about wonderful

00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:51.320
memory Mr Jam Chrisman and he could,
he could tell a yarn like nobody's

00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:55.497
business, He knew everything about
this university. I mean, he had a part

00:55:55.530 --> 00:55:59.586
of everything that went on with this
university, including several name

00:55:59.619 --> 00:56:07.619
changes and uh I mean he was, he was a
back pocket supporter that I always

00:56:07.889 --> 00:56:13.037
felt like if I really need something,
I'll go to gym, he'll get it, he'll

00:56:13.070 --> 00:56:17.347
make them see the light and in several
cases, I pulled him out of my back

00:56:17.380 --> 00:56:25.380
pocket and and things got done. But ah
he had a special voice, a little

00:56:26.789 --> 00:56:34.327
bit of a twang that just kind of such
a, in a comfort zone and he was like

00:56:34.360 --> 00:56:39.796
dad's sitting by the fireplace telling
a christmas story and

00:56:39.829 --> 00:56:44.787
they're really the people just, they
knew instantly who was on the

00:56:44.820 --> 00:56:48.236
microphone, he didn't even have to say
his name ever. In fact, he didn't

00:56:48.269 --> 00:56:51.816
like to, I made him put it in the
announcements, he said, I don't want to

00:56:51.849 --> 00:56:56.787
read that. I said, well you're going
to because you're reading it. So put

00:56:56.820 --> 00:57:03.037
your name in there. And but he was a
very humble man and just a wonderful

00:57:03.070 --> 00:57:10.747
friend, supporters, wow. He supported
us all the all the time. So just

00:57:10.780 --> 00:57:16.106
like Michael does, I mean, Michael
puts in a lot of extra hours to get

00:57:16.139 --> 00:57:21.106
things prepared for what he has to do
with the issue band.

00:57:21.139 --> 00:57:26.256
So he's carrying on the tradition.
There were a couple in between Sean bad

00:57:26.289 --> 00:57:32.456
key was for a couple of years and had
some folks from the finance or uh

00:57:32.489 --> 00:57:37.396
yeah, Broadcasting department.

00:57:37.429 --> 00:57:44.137
But yeah, All right. It takes a
special kind of person to Continak in

00:57:44.170 --> 00:57:49.997
front of 80,000 people.

00:57:50.030 --> 00:57:52.717
So were there any challenges
encountered during your career? You know,

00:57:52.750 --> 00:58:00.486
either financial administrative
always. I mean, it was always

00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:06.387
how are we going to fund this? How are
we going to buy this? And I don't

00:58:06.420 --> 00:58:14.420
with a shoestring budget
comparatively. I think I had like maybe

00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:21.077
Near the end about 80,000 a year to
work with. But that included travel.

00:58:21.110 --> 00:58:26.387
And you take this man to you of a one
time, There's $8,000 right there.

00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:28.477
Easy.

00:58:28.510 --> 00:58:35.296
I had good needs to work with robert
Wells, robert. Wells was very good

00:58:35.329 --> 00:58:41.856
Dean. As far as I was concerned as far
as I was concerned in my program

00:58:41.889 --> 00:58:48.617
because you have to have support from
the upper administrators if you're

00:58:48.650 --> 00:58:52.736
going to have any kind of success,
that's all there is to it. I mean, look

00:58:52.769 --> 00:58:59.376
at it now. Jim Hudson comes in five
years later. The program is right back

00:58:59.409 --> 00:59:05.197
where I left it. And that's because he
had support from the president as

00:59:05.230 --> 00:59:11.986
well as from the athletic department
etcetera. And

00:59:12.019 --> 00:59:19.097
so yeah, I had always had to have a
fight for a budget. Um, I did get

00:59:19.130 --> 00:59:24.006
money to run the band from the School
of music and from the Dean of Fine

00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:30.767
Arts. And once in a while we'd get an
extra thing like for new uniforms or

00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:37.106
something from the president's office.
But we, we dealt a lot with getting

00:59:37.139 --> 00:59:42.486
donations to the band and getting free
instruments from instrument

00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:49.686
companies and so on because they
wanted to sponsor us. Um of course

00:59:49.719 --> 00:59:55.526
Budweiser used to sponsor us to back
in the day, but that doesn't happen

00:59:55.559 --> 01:00:01.646
anymore either. I actually wasn't
aware of that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I

01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:08.126
thought we just used to play the song.
It was always a problem finding

01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:15.517
funding and I always put in requests
for additional funding, additional

01:00:15.550 --> 01:00:22.756
instruments etcetera. And uh I even
remember one year I did a dumb thing

01:00:22.789 --> 01:00:29.497
and that is, I didn't spend all of my
allotment and I was going to spend

01:00:29.530 --> 01:00:32.177
it in june

01:00:32.210 --> 01:00:39.017
well, we put in some orders to, to
spend that amount, came back, funds

01:00:39.050 --> 01:00:43.776
weren't there. What do you mean funds
aren't there? I know they're there.

01:00:43.809 --> 01:00:48.296
Uh you better talk to your department
chair. So I went straight to

01:00:48.329 --> 01:00:54.427
Amberson. He said, yeah, Fleming
sometimes you just gotta buck up, you

01:00:54.460 --> 01:01:00.177
know? And I was going to tell you

01:01:00.210 --> 01:01:07.387
yesterday and he smiled and he said
it, we're in deep trouble and I knew

01:01:07.420 --> 01:01:14.816
you had money so I borrowed it well.
And in fact, the next year he did

01:01:14.849 --> 01:01:20.577
slide me a little extra from the
School of music budget because he had

01:01:20.610 --> 01:01:28.256
Borrowed our, I think it was $8,000.
Um, but that's, that's how things

01:01:28.289 --> 01:01:33.057
worked then. You know, you, you
weren't ever really sure. I mean at the

01:01:33.090 --> 01:01:37.546
university we never got contracts
until we were like a month and a half

01:01:37.579 --> 01:01:44.186
into the school year. Well, okay.
That's the way they do it. That's fine.

01:01:44.219 --> 01:01:49.566
Um, I don't know if it's still that
way or not, but that was always an

01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:55.447
interesting aspect. Yeah, I would, I
would say that's what was the most

01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:01.787
trouble and, and gaining the respect
of the athletic department. That was

01:02:01.820 --> 01:02:08.566
number two because, mm hmm. If an
athletic department doesn't want you,

01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:12.807
boy, I don't even think about going to
their door because they'll shut you

01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:18.236
out just real fast because they don't,
they don't need you. They need

01:02:18.269 --> 01:02:22.186
those boys out on the field playing
football and winning games. Now. The

01:02:22.219 --> 01:02:24.566
fact that

01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:29.637
I think we finally convinced them that
we can help with that. And well,

01:02:29.670 --> 01:02:34.296
you know what I was like during the
game. I mean, I I ran the game. People

01:02:34.329 --> 01:02:39.997
come up, talk to me, I said not now
first down go you know, and I'm I'm I

01:02:40.030 --> 01:02:45.776
can't lose a minute of that game
because that's my job. And how does the

01:02:45.809 --> 01:02:50.617
same way he stands right in front of
that band and he controls every

01:02:50.650 --> 01:02:58.577
second of what the band does all in
support of the team. So mm hmm. That

01:02:58.610 --> 01:03:03.227
was always something I figured was
part of my job, you know, and so I

01:03:03.260 --> 01:03:08.467
think once we convinced the athletic
department that that was our role,

01:03:08.500 --> 01:03:11.066
then

01:03:11.099 --> 01:03:15.526
we gained a lot of respect there and
and I had some wonderful people in

01:03:15.559 --> 01:03:21.217
the athletic department, good friends
that you know, it became my go to

01:03:21.250 --> 01:03:27.256
guy and of course going through five
athletic directors, six football

01:03:27.289 --> 01:03:34.066
coaches, five basketball coaches, wow
and so on down the line. You know,

01:03:34.099 --> 01:03:38.626
it was always changing from the, from
the time that bill frieder came to

01:03:38.659 --> 01:03:46.247
me, no, no, no no bob Weinhauer Came
to me, slipped me $100 bill and said

01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:51.256
bring as much toilet paper as you can
for this to the next game. And of

01:03:51.289 --> 01:03:54.287
course that was when you know they'd
wait until they scored the first

01:03:54.320 --> 01:03:57.697
bucket and then they throw the talk
well it was the band's job to pass out

01:03:57.730 --> 01:04:00.657
the toilet paper. Well

01:04:00.690 --> 01:04:06.287
when we got penalized for doing that
at cow, uh that was when the toilet

01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:14.320
paper stopped and so did the money.

01:04:17.489 --> 01:04:21.657
So coach directing a university band
program. Very demanding. You talked

01:04:21.690 --> 01:04:26.186
about, you know, the pep band, the
marching band, symphonic wind ensemble

01:04:26.219 --> 01:04:31.657
, very time consuming, very demanding,
very rigorous schedule. So I want

01:04:31.690 --> 01:04:34.486
to talk a little bit about the role
that your family played in, that

01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:38.997
overall experience because it's so
demanding and um, you know, for mama

01:04:39.030 --> 01:04:43.477
coach and her engagement with with the
band and then even your kids, they

01:04:43.510 --> 01:04:48.956
played well. Uh

01:04:48.989 --> 01:04:52.856
Number one, I felt like our Children

01:04:52.889 --> 01:04:59.356
gained a lot from the fact that I was
the director of the band here

01:04:59.389 --> 01:05:05.247
because uh, the band kids always
accepted them and I mean they'd come to

01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:08.867
rehearsal and I'd like to never see
them again because they'd be off with

01:05:08.900 --> 01:05:12.517
band kids, they'd be carried around on
shoulders, they'd be, they'd hide

01:05:12.550 --> 01:05:18.106
them from me, you know, I mean playing
jokes with me whatever. But the

01:05:18.139 --> 01:05:23.236
kids had a really good understanding
and a story I remembered to bring

01:05:23.269 --> 01:05:30.436
that to a point. I was walking across
the field and brian, my son had been

01:05:30.469 --> 01:05:36.856
, our son had been there at rehearsal
and he had a buddy of his with him

01:05:36.889 --> 01:05:41.717
and it was a, it was a hard rehearsal.
So I, I've been working the band

01:05:41.750 --> 01:05:49.750
pretty hard and that follow that was
with brian just as I kind of caught

01:05:49.949 --> 01:05:53.606
up to them and they didn't know I was
there, he looked over brian, He said

01:05:53.639 --> 01:05:59.796
, man, is your dad that tough on you?
He said, nah his bark is worse than

01:05:59.829 --> 01:06:07.736
his bite, don't you know, And and yet
I think my Children always respected

01:06:07.769 --> 01:06:12.836
the fact that I didn't expect more out
of them than I did my own band kids.

01:06:12.869 --> 01:06:19.586
And so there was a an easy feeling
there that I wasn't expecting more out

01:06:19.619 --> 01:06:24.247
of anybody in general. It was
everybody and

01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:30.447
just had the same expectations and
that's the way I lived by it.

01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:38.480
Unfortunately, Brenda is of the same
feeling and oh, I think we did a

01:06:38.699 --> 01:06:44.617
pretty darn good job raising our kids,
but I know it would have been

01:06:44.650 --> 01:06:50.646
somewhat different without their
involvement with the bank

01:06:50.679 --> 01:06:54.336
to Brenda's

01:06:54.369 --> 01:07:02.369
plus side, shall we say, which they're
all that way. But uh this house was

01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:10.347
a year in party house for the seniors
after every pass in review concert,

01:07:10.380 --> 01:07:14.586
we'd have a party for all the seniors
and only seniors could come, they

01:07:14.619 --> 01:07:17.586
couldn't bring their dates, they
couldn't bring their friends. It was just

01:07:17.619 --> 01:07:23.217
seniors. And we did actually, we did
seniors because our house is small

01:07:23.250 --> 01:07:28.486
and we thought there's no way we can
have 350 people here at one time. So

01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:33.436
it became the senior party was
something after the pass and review concert

01:07:33.469 --> 01:07:38.986
, always on a Thursday night, uh
something to look forward to and I had a

01:07:39.019 --> 01:07:46.117
, I had another job in addition to
being um coach's wife and so I would

01:07:46.150 --> 01:07:50.997
always take a day of vacation that day
to prepare the food. And after a

01:07:51.030 --> 01:07:55.677
while it got pretty streamlined, I
knew what they liked and what would

01:07:55.710 --> 01:08:01.467
fill them up, and and so I had a kind
of a standard menu that I always

01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:04.606
used, but then I would take off the
next day because they would never

01:08:04.639 --> 01:08:08.517
leave until like two o'clock in the
morning, and in fact sometimes we

01:08:08.550 --> 01:08:12.967
joked about it, we would uh we had a
pool table in what we call our game

01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:18.786
room, and uh we'd say we're going to
bed, just be sure to lock the door

01:08:18.819 --> 01:08:21.927
when you leave and turn out the
lights. So it was just that kind of

01:08:21.960 --> 01:08:26.977
relationship, and so that was special,
plus students would drop in Lots of

01:08:27.010 --> 01:08:32.057
Different Times two, and they were
still, yeah, they were part of our

01:08:32.090 --> 01:08:36.536
family, it was like an extended family
and we didn't all of our relatives

01:08:36.569 --> 01:08:39.647
were back east in Pittsburgh, so, well
that's one of the things I wanted

01:08:39.680 --> 01:08:42.737
to ask you about as well. So you think
about a university marching band,

01:08:42.770 --> 01:08:46.027
you got kids from literally all over
the country, sometimes over the world

01:08:46.060 --> 01:08:50.397
, and thanksgiving. You know,
sometimes it's difficult for kids to get

01:08:50.430 --> 01:08:55.826
back home. Yeah, what can you say
about thanksgiving at your special time

01:08:55.859 --> 01:09:00.357
? Yeah, very special. And that started
because I was I had to go down to

01:09:00.390 --> 01:09:04.956
school because the u of a games,
always the day after c So I had to go

01:09:04.989 --> 01:09:10.286
down to school early in the morning I
guess and do a couple of final

01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:18.217
things in preparation for the game
which was here. And uh I was coming

01:09:18.250 --> 01:09:26.250
back and I drove past what Well it's
like where water burger is. And as I

01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:31.807
drove past I thought I saw several of
our students sitting in the

01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:36.126
restaurant so I did a U. Turn and went
back and parked and went in and

01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:40.116
said what are you guys doing? Well
we're having turkey dinner. I said like

01:09:40.149 --> 01:09:48.149
heck you are come on you're coming to
my house. And that started it. And

01:09:48.569 --> 01:09:52.737
literally this year

01:09:52.770 --> 01:09:58.937
is the first time we haven't had our
alums here but We still have four

01:09:58.970 --> 01:10:05.427
alums that come to our house every
thanksgiving and have for 35 years. And

01:10:05.460 --> 01:10:09.937
because they were from Chicago area
couldn't get home because of the game

01:10:09.970 --> 01:10:14.767
on friday. And so we said well hey
you're part of our family you're going

01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:20.826
to. So I started then with the band
and making sure that everybody who was

01:10:20.859 --> 01:10:25.317
out of the state had a place to go on
thanksgiving if they couldn't get

01:10:25.350 --> 01:10:29.177
home. And if they didn't have a place
to go they came to our house and

01:10:29.210 --> 01:10:35.116
we'd have as many as 18 or so once in
a while. 20 some a couple of times

01:10:35.149 --> 01:10:43.149
but generally no formal table of
course lots of little tables and uh we

01:10:43.170 --> 01:10:47.847
even had some parents come one time
they came to visit their son uh from

01:10:47.880 --> 01:10:51.626
New Mexico I believe and uh they
didn't have a place to go for

01:10:51.659 --> 01:10:56.097
thanksgiving. So they came to. So it
was a special time and people still,

01:10:56.130 --> 01:11:01.857
when we get emails, they always
mentioned that that was something that

01:11:01.890 --> 01:11:06.996
they really look forward to and they
knew if they had a place to go to and

01:11:07.029 --> 01:11:11.807
the band students were awesome and
opening up their homes and we had so

01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:16.706
many local students that everyone was
pretty well covered. If you weren't

01:11:16.739 --> 01:11:20.206
, then it was your fault because there
were lots of places that you could

01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:24.416
go. Well, it was

01:11:24.449 --> 01:11:30.277
similar to another thing that I
started, well just a few years after I got

01:11:30.310 --> 01:11:37.687
here and that was a kind of a built in
tutoring system because that I

01:11:37.720 --> 01:11:41.637
think it was like either my second or
third year, I had a couple of

01:11:41.670 --> 01:11:46.286
students who were struggling and
having trouble in class and I just said,

01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:49.887
well, hey, you know what, wait a
minute, don't get embarrassed. But I'm

01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:55.187
gonna ask the band if anybody can
help. So I asked the band has anybody

01:11:55.220 --> 01:11:59.536
had such and such a class from such
and such a teacher. Well, yeah, I had

01:11:59.569 --> 01:12:05.467
that of course, no, no, no, no good
come help. And they would set up. And

01:12:05.500 --> 01:12:12.267
I, I think over the years, because of
that, I don't know that I ever had

01:12:12.300 --> 01:12:19.116
anybody flunk out of college that was
in the band because we got them help.

01:12:19.149 --> 01:12:27.149
Ah not only not only from the class
that was they were taking, but I

01:12:28.189 --> 01:12:33.517
found out who had that class from that
same professor to really help them

01:12:33.550 --> 01:12:37.027
get through it. So that was just
another thing that we did Brendan. Can

01:12:37.060 --> 01:12:39.796
you talk a little bit about your
engagement with the band and what that

01:12:39.829 --> 01:12:47.576
meant to you? Sure, Well, I'm uh quasi
musician, so I didn't have the

01:12:47.609 --> 01:12:53.626
expertise that it was necessary to
play in a college band, but I did play

01:12:53.659 --> 01:13:00.406
clarinet in high school band. And in
fact, then we both we went went to

01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:05.416
indiana University of Pennsylvania.
And at the time

01:13:05.449 --> 01:13:13.449
you might want to just hold at the
time, they Indiana had the marching 100

01:13:13.550 --> 01:13:19.217
And it was all male. Now we're talking
in the 60s. So uh that's when I

01:13:19.250 --> 01:13:23.456
first became very interested in
women's rights and and things that were

01:13:23.489 --> 01:13:28.237
important for women to do. And I would
not have made the band anyway, I

01:13:28.270 --> 01:13:33.777
was not uh talented enough or didn't
play, I wouldn't have made passed the

01:13:33.810 --> 01:13:38.567
audition. So anyway, but I always had
an interest and then when we got

01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:42.666
married and actually when we were
dating and he was doing the high school

01:13:42.699 --> 01:13:49.517
band, I would go and listen and be a
part of that. And

01:13:49.550 --> 01:13:54.347
just really I the music that you play
in a marching band and I like

01:13:54.380 --> 01:13:59.727
concert band too. But marching band,
it was all very appealing and very

01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:05.406
showbiz like. So that had an appeal to
me. I always wanted to be more

01:14:05.439 --> 01:14:10.437
involved than uh either that neither
he nor his graduate assistants would

01:14:10.470 --> 01:14:15.397
let me be because I would I would like
to look and I was a person who was

01:14:15.430 --> 01:14:22.086
concerned about detail and marching
steps and whether their shoes were

01:14:22.119 --> 01:14:28.517
polished and that sort of thing. So
they they always had a story where he

01:14:28.550 --> 01:14:33.317
said he had one graduate assistant uh
and part of his responsibilities

01:14:33.350 --> 01:14:38.626
were to keep me quiet during the uh or
to take care of me. So I wouldn't

01:14:38.659 --> 01:14:43.227
be offering suggestions when we would
go. We had stadium day then which

01:14:43.260 --> 01:14:49.677
was the Wednesday of game week, so
that was kind of an inside joke and I

01:14:49.710 --> 01:14:53.857
took it pretty well but our Children
like bob said our our Children were

01:14:53.890 --> 01:15:00.006
always involved and a part of
everything. Uh we had students who would uh

01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:07.036
babysit for them when we had to go to
concerts or events and also when we

01:15:07.069 --> 01:15:11.187
had to go out of town they might stay
over and watch the house and do that

01:15:11.220 --> 01:15:16.857
sort of thing. So uh they were my
family too and I had my I had a full

01:15:16.890 --> 01:15:23.706
time job. I one of the things that was
very attractive for me when he was

01:15:23.739 --> 01:15:28.597
offered the opportunity to interview
for the position um at ut martin, I

01:15:28.630 --> 01:15:35.616
also taught at the university and ah I
wanted to get my doctorate like bob

01:15:35.649 --> 01:15:40.527
was getting his doctorate at that
time, you had to do a sabbatical and I

01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:45.406
knew I couldn't leave the Children for
six months to go with the logical

01:15:45.439 --> 01:15:50.786
choice. There was to go to the main
university at Ut Knoxville. And uh so

01:15:50.819 --> 01:15:54.147
I thought oh well someday I guess
maybe I'll get to do it. So when he was

01:15:54.180 --> 01:15:59.996
offered this opportunity, uh I had a
chance then to get my doctorate and

01:16:00.029 --> 01:16:06.097
so I did that for the first few years
we were here, our son brian was in,

01:16:06.130 --> 01:16:14.130
he was in kindergarten, Michelle was
but 1.5 2 years of age and we had one

01:16:14.329 --> 01:16:19.977
of our outstanding students from ut
martin Danny Lindsay who came and

01:16:20.010 --> 01:16:24.357
lived with us and then helped provide
childcare so that I could go to

01:16:24.390 --> 01:16:30.437
classes and do things. And he also was
bob's graduate assistant, so he was

01:16:30.470 --> 01:16:34.857
a very important part of our life then
too. But writing the dissertation

01:16:34.890 --> 01:16:40.397
was really hard doing the course work
and teaching

01:16:40.430 --> 01:16:46.256
undergrad uh students for my, as part
of my assistantship, but having

01:16:46.289 --> 01:16:50.277
those blocks of time when I could
write and do things that was, that was

01:16:50.310 --> 01:16:55.967
difficult and and also still attend
Games. I missed two football games in

01:16:56.000 --> 01:17:04.000
28 years and the first one I missed
because our daughter who had Michelle

01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:10.506
had grown and had a former roommate
who was getting married uh in Chicago

01:17:10.539 --> 01:17:15.727
Chicago. So that had to be 86 and it
was the cow game. I think that

01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:20.027
decided that we were going to go to
the Roosevelt and I missed it and they

01:17:20.060 --> 01:17:24.027
didn't cover it in Illinois and oh I
was just sick and they were talking

01:17:24.060 --> 01:17:28.647
to me on the telephone telling me this
is what's happening now. And so

01:17:28.680 --> 01:17:32.956
that was a really, really important
things. So what was the other game you

01:17:32.989 --> 01:17:40.296
missed? Ah The one that decided the 97
Roosevelt. Yeah,

01:17:40.329 --> 01:17:46.467
I mean I was ready to say, hey miss a
few more and that was, I was in my

01:17:46.500 --> 01:17:52.227
profession, it was in the childcare
field and I had I was had been given

01:17:52.260 --> 01:17:58.107
an opportunity to speak at a
conference in Washington, D. C. And that was

01:17:58.140 --> 01:18:02.727
set up a year before and something I
couldn't back out of. Something like

01:18:02.760 --> 01:18:08.057
that. So I had to miss that. So pretty
much banned, had a top priority in

01:18:08.090 --> 01:18:11.746
our family and everything kind of
focused around that and that was our

01:18:11.779 --> 01:18:17.857
life, wonderful, great times out of
all your accomplishments of the issue

01:18:17.890 --> 01:18:22.097
which has given you the most
satisfaction.

01:18:22.130 --> 01:18:27.286
I know you've probably already
answered it. Well,

01:18:27.319 --> 01:18:33.817
seeing what my students have become. I
mean we have, we have students in

01:18:33.850 --> 01:18:39.546
universities all over the country that
are directors of bands now and to

01:18:39.579 --> 01:18:45.597
be able to look back and see that
lineage when we go to Chicago for the

01:18:45.630 --> 01:18:51.557
midwest conference? Midwest band and
orchestra directors convention? We

01:18:51.590 --> 01:18:56.687
have an a. s. unite and they're
usually upwards of 40 alums that our band

01:18:56.720 --> 01:19:01.847
directors around the country that we
meet in Chicago. And we have a whale

01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:08.937
of a party um in the american
Bandmaster Association which I was very

01:19:08.970 --> 01:19:13.847
proudly elected to. It's an elected
membership. It's not a, oh you want to

01:19:13.880 --> 01:19:21.880
be in that. And um but now we have I
think 16 A. S. You passed students

01:19:23.270 --> 01:19:28.487
that are also members of the american
man Masters Association which is one

01:19:28.520 --> 01:19:34.446
of the premier band director
associations in the world. And You know there

01:19:34.479 --> 01:19:40.376
are only about 250 members total. And
for us to have as many as we do from

01:19:40.409 --> 01:19:47.487
our time at A. S. U. Is very very
rewarding. Ah

01:19:47.520 --> 01:19:53.187
Just like I said they're all over the
country and and not all of them in

01:19:53.220 --> 01:20:01.220
college. But Mark Greer is director of
bands at Kalamazoo Michigan has a

01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:07.826
marvelous band program and big you
know, just Monster man Mike Watts is at

01:20:07.859 --> 01:20:12.376
Odessa Permian in texas which is one
of the Premier man's in the state of

01:20:12.409 --> 01:20:16.576
texas. And so

01:20:16.609 --> 01:20:23.506
we also have, well I have junior high
teachers that I respect entirely to

01:20:23.539 --> 01:20:26.977
that I did. Oh

01:20:27.010 --> 01:20:34.876
well maternity leaves for and to put
me back in a junior high band room? I

01:20:34.909 --> 01:20:40.567
was nervous because here I am retired.
And yet what are these youngsters

01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:47.517
going to do to me? But they were both
very well run programs and so it

01:20:47.550 --> 01:20:54.366
just was smooth as silk and we just
had a blast. And uh, I did a six month

01:20:54.399 --> 01:20:56.677
for

01:20:56.710 --> 01:21:01.927
chaparral high school, which she's not
a graduate of virus. But now it's

01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:08.177
like she was, you know, because she
was very appreciative of everything I

01:21:08.210 --> 01:21:12.076
did with their program and and I had a
great time with those kids, not

01:21:12.109 --> 01:21:17.177
something I want to do all year long,
but this was a six month thing. And

01:21:17.210 --> 01:21:20.876
so it was a lot of fun. But

01:21:20.909 --> 01:21:28.909
I, I don't, I just have so many great
memories with all of these past

01:21:29.779 --> 01:21:37.637
graduates when mama coach and I went
on our, a couple of oh tours around

01:21:37.670 --> 01:21:43.027
the country with our motor home. We
rarely stayed in a motorhome park

01:21:43.060 --> 01:21:48.977
because we were in a past students
driveway, um, staying in a motel room.

01:21:49.010 --> 01:21:54.696
And I mean this was from here to the
east Coast, up the east Coast all

01:21:54.729 --> 01:22:00.866
the way back through Tennessee and
then back home. And we always had

01:22:00.899 --> 01:22:07.866
somebody that that would let us pull
in the driveway and camp out

01:22:07.899 --> 01:22:13.126
now. There are lots of couples that
have interacted with the Sandoval

01:22:13.159 --> 01:22:16.897
marching band over the years. I mean
people that have, you know, it's been

01:22:16.930 --> 01:22:19.696
a lot of time together and they've
gone off and got married. What can you

01:22:19.729 --> 01:22:24.916
to tell us about? It's, well, when we
have homecoming, I mean it's really

01:22:24.949 --> 01:22:30.586
, really something, but I couldn't
begin to count the number of times

01:22:30.619 --> 01:22:35.996
we've been named as a grandparent. Uh
we've had so many banned marriages

01:22:36.029 --> 01:22:42.387
even out of bowl games, the Oklahoma
state Oklahoma Oklahoma, sorry,

01:22:42.420 --> 01:22:49.267
Oklahoma, when we played them a drum
major from Oklahoma and one of my

01:22:49.300 --> 01:22:55.996
piccolo players got together and they
are still married, I mean, but that

01:22:56.029 --> 01:23:01.987
that's even from a meeting of a three
day experience. But band people are

01:23:02.020 --> 01:23:04.196
different,

01:23:04.229 --> 01:23:10.647
they have similar goals and ideas in
life just because of the dedication

01:23:10.680 --> 01:23:18.680
that it takes to make a good band
happen and oh, I mean, hundreds of

01:23:19.600 --> 01:23:23.477
banned marriages have happened.

01:23:23.510 --> 01:23:30.666
In fact just coming out of passing
review on Tuesday night uh this guy

01:23:30.699 --> 01:23:35.517
says, hey coach, how you doing, man, I
still can never thank you enough

01:23:35.550 --> 01:23:41.546
for introducing me to my lovely wife.
They've been married 30 years and I

01:23:41.579 --> 01:23:47.916
introduced them as freshmen and you
know, I kind of forgotten about it,

01:23:47.949 --> 01:23:52.126
but once we got the names going and oh
boy, then I remembered everything,

01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:57.387
but I mean it just goes on and on and
that's part of the legacy of the

01:23:57.420 --> 01:24:05.137
family. Um I had one um one graduate
student whose wife talked to me and

01:24:05.170 --> 01:24:11.857
she said, you know, you really should
teach a course for the wives of the

01:24:11.890 --> 01:24:19.357
graduate assistance on how you survive
as a band director's wife. I

01:24:19.390 --> 01:24:21.756
haven't had

01:24:21.789 --> 01:24:29.256
mothers call me and ah

01:24:29.289 --> 01:24:36.357
thank me for taking fear out of there
thoughts about their daughter or son

01:24:36.390 --> 01:24:41.107
because uh that's another thing I
would do is try and meet everybody's

01:24:41.140 --> 01:24:48.256
parents at some point, especially if
they were entering freshmen and just

01:24:48.289 --> 01:24:54.467
convinced them that this is a family
that they're getting into this mega

01:24:54.500 --> 01:25:00.656
campus which even back early years, it
still was awfully big, you know,

01:25:00.689 --> 01:25:07.227
comparatively to. But now I mean there
are students in band whose

01:25:07.260 --> 01:25:09.557
hometowns

01:25:09.590 --> 01:25:17.590
are smaller than the university and
they've never experienced this kind of

01:25:17.850 --> 01:25:22.826
thing. But we established that in band
camp before any other students get

01:25:22.859 --> 01:25:28.807
on campus this is your family, you
find out where people live, how you can

01:25:28.840 --> 01:25:33.717
get in touch with them so that you
never have fear when you're on this

01:25:33.750 --> 01:25:37.897
campus because you've always got
somebody you can call and talk to to get

01:25:37.930 --> 01:25:44.557
through a class to get through it. A
loneliness situation And

01:25:44.590 --> 01:25:51.057
that's just why we had such good
longevity in the program

01:25:51.090 --> 01:25:57.366
bob and I used to go on friday nights
that was what we called his, he

01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:01.467
called recruitment and we would go to
a high school football game. So our

01:26:01.500 --> 01:26:05.217
daughter still reminds us that from
time to time we didn't go to her high

01:26:05.250 --> 01:26:09.866
school games because and she was on
the cheer squad because we were going

01:26:09.899 --> 01:26:16.637
to see other bands and recruiting. So
I had to try to give equal time for

01:26:16.670 --> 01:26:21.836
all that. But that was an important
thing to do to one of the ways I did

01:26:21.869 --> 01:26:28.946
recruit because it was enjoyable.
Brenda loves football. She liked to go

01:26:28.979 --> 01:26:33.057
once in a while. It was great that we
could leave after halftime at a game

01:26:33.090 --> 01:26:37.487
instead of staying till the very end.
Like we always had to do with a S. U.

01:26:37.520 --> 01:26:45.520
Games and win or lose. But um I could
go and talk to both bands and

01:26:45.710 --> 01:26:51.187
directors uh and just my presence
there. Hey hey man coaches here say hi

01:26:51.220 --> 01:26:55.777
to coach, you know it was a real soft
sell. You didn't say you need to

01:26:55.810 --> 01:26:59.857
come to A S. U. In fact something bob
always did. That was very special.

01:26:59.890 --> 01:27:05.626
Um He would say and he kind of alluded
to this with one of the other

01:27:05.659 --> 01:27:11.237
questions you had asked, I don't care
where you go to school but being the

01:27:11.270 --> 01:27:16.916
band you know and if you come to A. S.
U. Then being my band but if if not

01:27:16.949 --> 01:27:21.097
just don't give up your your
instrument, don't give up that that part of

01:27:21.130 --> 01:27:26.996
you. So that was kind of just
promoting it and lots of people are in

01:27:27.029 --> 01:27:32.677
community bands now as a result of
that, I always made sure that the bowl

01:27:32.710 --> 01:27:37.666
game was in fact a thank you to the
band for their hard work throughout

01:27:37.699 --> 01:27:45.699
the season and we always put them up
in knots high class but a very good

01:27:46.100 --> 01:27:54.100
motel hotel and although most of the
times we traveled by bus. But uh, but

01:27:54.329 --> 01:27:57.437
that was fine to that, That's part of
the experience. That's part of the

01:27:57.470 --> 01:28:01.847
bonding. That brings a band together.
And I always felt like if we had a

01:28:01.880 --> 01:28:06.446
bowl game man, my band next year is
gonna be fabulous because they'll come

01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:14.479
back, they'll come back man. And that
was something that in, in retrospect

01:28:15.369 --> 01:28:22.237
was a very important aspect of our
acknowledgment system where we gave the

01:28:22.270 --> 01:28:28.626
juniors a watch that had the Sun devil
logo on it. It's a little band logo

01:28:28.659 --> 01:28:35.866
and then we gave the seniors a jacket,
which actually it costs more than

01:28:35.899 --> 01:28:39.156
the watches. But they thought it was
the other way around. I never told

01:28:39.189 --> 01:28:45.967
him any different. Um, And that we
would have between 60 and 70 juniors

01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:53.467
and 50 or less or just in that area.
50 Seniors in a university that was

01:28:53.500 --> 01:28:58.336
very demanding. one of our biggest
majors was engineering. Well. By the

01:28:58.369 --> 01:29:03.897
time they get to be a junior holy
Mackerel, they are so inundated with

01:29:03.930 --> 01:29:11.046
classes and hard classes, you know.
Um, but we managed to hold our own and

01:29:11.079 --> 01:29:18.637
then when had announced that he had 50
seniors, wow. I mean that in five

01:29:18.670 --> 01:29:22.036
years, that's just amazing. That's
just great. But that shows that the

01:29:22.069 --> 01:29:30.069
program is really flourishing and uh,
the growth is, is going to continue

01:29:31.890 --> 01:29:37.277
its astounding. Um, Oh, who's the
coach I'm trying to think of came from

01:29:37.310 --> 01:29:40.836
Boise state

01:29:40.869 --> 01:29:47.097
Coach Carter came over to talk to the
band one day and the band was in

01:29:47.130 --> 01:29:52.397
sectionals as usual. He came over and
said coach, how many freshman do you

01:29:52.430 --> 01:29:57.437
have in this man? About 150.

01:29:57.470 --> 01:30:02.027
What? 150.

01:30:02.060 --> 01:30:06.817
How do you handle them? I said well I
carry a big stick. He said yeah I've

01:30:06.850 --> 01:30:10.317
heard you over here and I've told my
guys several times they don't shape

01:30:10.350 --> 01:30:16.807
up, you're gonna send them over here.
But um He, he was just amazed

01:30:16.840 --> 01:30:20.387
because he had, he said he had 23
freshmen and he didn't know how to

01:30:20.420 --> 01:30:23.027
handle them.

01:30:23.060 --> 01:30:28.656
But then one of the big problems he
had was the me generation had started

01:30:28.689 --> 01:30:33.666
yeah it's all about me, it's what do I
get? You know how much am I going

01:30:33.699 --> 01:30:40.237
to get in the Ariana? And he really
had a hard time with that. But my kids

01:30:40.270 --> 01:30:45.727
knew coming in because we didn't have
scholarships for the band and that

01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:50.737
was my choice because there isn't
anybody in the band that's better than

01:30:50.770 --> 01:30:57.826
anybody else. Then once we started to
get alumni donations I was able to

01:30:57.859 --> 01:31:05.647
ah give the section leaders a stipend
of just a couple $100 but it helped

01:31:05.680 --> 01:31:09.887
them buy books and that sort of thing.
But as far as scholarships are

01:31:09.920 --> 01:31:17.376
concerned we just didn't have any and
verdi Dickie who gave The current

01:31:17.409 --> 01:31:25.409
ban when Jim Hudson took over $750,000
check. I saw him a few months after

01:31:25.520 --> 01:31:29.477
that and I said Bertie, I got to tell
you what you did for the band is

01:31:29.510 --> 01:31:34.586
just unbelievable. But where were you
when I was here? He said coach, you

01:31:34.619 --> 01:31:38.696
had a great band. You didn't need my
help. I didn't know whether to kick

01:31:38.729 --> 01:31:42.126
him or kiss him.

01:31:42.159 --> 01:31:48.206
I really enjoyed when I started the
parents night and the parents would

01:31:48.239 --> 01:31:51.996
come to a rehearsal or parents
weekend. It was in conjunction with the A.

01:31:52.029 --> 01:31:59.626
S. U. Parents weekend and they would
come and come to rehearsal on friday

01:31:59.659 --> 01:32:04.536
and they had marched pregame with
their son or daughter. And in some cases

01:32:04.569 --> 01:32:11.647
when we had two sets, it's got a
little tricky sometimes, but we'd adopt,

01:32:11.680 --> 01:32:16.126
somebody would adopt a set of parents
and they've marched right in beside

01:32:16.159 --> 01:32:19.666
him with pregame because what can you
do to pre game? You know, you can't

01:32:19.699 --> 01:32:26.217
hurt it. It doesn't ever change on
purpose because that's tradition. But

01:32:26.250 --> 01:32:32.847
uh that last year We had almost 800
people on the field between the

01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:39.237
parents and the band and I would have
parents calling me in august hey,

01:32:39.270 --> 01:32:45.307
when we got to make our plane
reservations, you know? And so it was, it

01:32:45.340 --> 01:32:52.937
was just a trip and I think it did
more for the students that did for the

01:32:52.970 --> 01:32:56.967
parents actually because it made the
students and I tried to get the

01:32:57.000 --> 01:33:00.796
students to think about, you know,
don't be embarrassed because your

01:33:00.829 --> 01:33:06.366
parents are here man. I mean what a
compliment to you that your parents

01:33:06.399 --> 01:33:11.467
want to come and march with you in
this man. I mean you've got to think of

01:33:11.500 --> 01:33:15.107
it that way. And

01:33:15.140 --> 01:33:18.286
I said plus you know, it may help you
get more at christmas or something,

01:33:18.319 --> 01:33:24.817
you know, uh so that was a big event
that we did

01:33:24.850 --> 01:33:29.427
that I was always very proud of. I had
a lot of fun with. Now they don't

01:33:29.460 --> 01:33:32.916
do it anymore because

01:33:32.949 --> 01:33:40.279
there's athletic concerns about people
being on the field and getting hurt.

01:33:41.350 --> 01:33:43.350
I just think that's a bunch of Bs, you know, and they don't know what

01:33:45.600 --> 01:33:53.107
they're missing. So hey, it's gone.
But that's one of the few because when

01:33:53.140 --> 01:33:58.006
Jim Hudson came to A. S. U. Five years
ago, the first thing he did was

01:33:58.039 --> 01:34:03.517
call me and said coach, we need to
talk. So we had about a 3.5 hour

01:34:03.550 --> 01:34:07.477
meeting and he wrote down, he said, I
want to know every tradition you

01:34:07.510 --> 01:34:14.206
ever started. He wrote them all down
and now they're just about all back

01:34:14.239 --> 01:34:20.607
and parents night is one that's not
back but

01:34:20.640 --> 01:34:25.347
or not back the same way. You know,
it's not that they stopped doing that

01:34:25.380 --> 01:34:32.206
, but just what we did with having in
March,

01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:38.616
it would be silly for me do not openly
admit that I'm one of the luckiest

01:34:38.649 --> 01:34:43.717
guys in the world. Not only have I had
this wonderful, marvelous job all

01:34:43.750 --> 01:34:49.927
these years, and my job is prior to
this were training for this. So they

01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:57.960
were good too. But to meet Brenda and
actually be told by my father, why

01:34:59.029 --> 01:35:02.567
haven't you checked that young lady
out? Because she taught in the same

01:35:02.600 --> 01:35:09.656
school system that he taught him. And
so I checked her out And 46 years

01:35:09.689 --> 01:35:17.506
later, we're still checking each other
out and and uh she has been my rock.

01:35:17.539 --> 01:35:21.807
 Uh she's heard every

01:35:21.840 --> 01:35:28.916
concern I've had about this job, my
career, whatever. And yet she

01:35:28.949 --> 01:35:34.937
supported me every step of the way and
that's just the only way it could

01:35:34.970 --> 01:35:38.307
have worked because

01:35:38.340 --> 01:35:46.340
yeah, my job is very focused and very
oh central to our lives. But I also

01:35:47.329 --> 01:35:52.166
knew that she was very important in
her work. She is now chairman of the

01:35:52.199 --> 01:35:57.626
board, for God's sake. So you don't
just get that for nothing, you know?

01:35:57.659 --> 01:36:05.659
And so she she has, it's just been
fantastic support for me and

01:36:07.239 --> 01:36:12.696
any band director out there. Mhm. and
make sure you pick the right one

01:36:12.729 --> 01:36:20.126
because if they're not Supporting
Minutes, a hard road to go, right, I'm

01:36:20.159 --> 01:36:22.897
lucky.

01:36:22.930 --> 01:36:30.930
Okay, thank you,

01:36:31.239 --> 01:36:36.296
bingo.

01:36:36.329 --> 01:36:39.496
Mm hmm.

01:36:39.529 --> 01:36:47.529
A

01:36:57.329 --> 01:37:05.329
Okay.

01:37:10.479 --> 01:37:18.479
Yeah,

01:37:20.829 --> 01:37:23.039
mm hmm.