WEBVTT

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today is thursday thursday March 29th 2012. We're conducting an interview

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for the Arizona State University
retirees Association video history

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project. We are located today in the
A. S. U. Community services building

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. I am dr BJ teatro strategic planning
and evaluation consultant and I

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worked closely with our interviewees
during the time she was at a a ship.

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The technical support staff today
include David Shatz Lee director who

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will be operating the camera and linda
Vance. Coy linda is the chair of

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the Arizona State University retirees
Association video history project

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and linda will be on audio today and
now for our guest. Um Betty would you

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please introduce yourself, starting
with your name and then the major

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positions you held at A. S. U.
Alright, my name is Betty de Gras. I came

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to A. S. U. In 1986 and started the
downtown center in downtown phoenix

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and I also served as associate dean
and dean of the College of Extended

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Education. I retired in 2005 and now
I'm Dean Emeritus and Professor

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America.

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Okay, so um Betty trace your life path
um starting with where you were

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born and raised. Well let's see, I was
born in philadelphia pennsylvania

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on the west, the northwest edge of the
city in an area called west Oak

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Lane. I was the youngest of three
Children. Very traditional family. My

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mother stayed at home and raised the
kids and my dad worked for the

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telephone company for 46 years and he
was a very avid fishermen. So for

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vacations we had to be somewhere
around water. So we used to go down to

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the shore, the Jersey shore for
several years and then we went to the

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Adirondack mountains in upper new york
state because there was water. So

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we had to be so important, very
important. Uh Then I went to college in

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Western Pennsylvania, north of
Pittsburgh And came to Arizona in 1972 at

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the Tender age of 25. There you go. So
our first theme today is your path

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to A S. U. You've told us a little bit
about where you were born and

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raised. So now tell us a little bit
more about the path through schooling

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and jobs until you arrived at A. S. U.
Who and what influenced you and the

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path that you took. Mm Okay, well
let's see. I attended public schools in

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philadelphia and that included the
girls school that I went to for high

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school. And I know you went to a girls
school to in Louisville Kentucky.

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Uh The school I went to was the
academic preparation high school called.

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Uh Originally enough Girls High,

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they're not too creative there in
philadelphia. Um It was quite an

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experience. And after that I went to
college in Western Pennsylvania thiel

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College in a little town called
Greenville Pennsylvania. Uh that was the

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farthest that my dad would let me go.
He told me I could go like five

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hours away from home. So I drew, I put
a pin in philadelphia and draw a

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little circle around to see how far I
could go. So western pennsylvania

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was it? And that was as far west. I
mean that was pretty far west for a

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kid from, from philadelphia. Um So um
let's see my my brother was a

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presbyterian minister and when I was a
senior in high school he invited me

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to go on a retreat that he was having
for his youth group about careers.

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And he knew I wanted to be a social
worker and there was going to be a

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social worker there in attendance. So
I went on that retreat and he made a

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point of introducing me to one of the
young men and his youth group. And a

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couple of years later I married that
guy is rick DeGraw. And uh so I have

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my brother to thank for that. Um In
the we got married in between our

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junior and senior years in college um
during the summers that I was

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working in in college I had a couple
of jobs. One was that I was a fudge

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cutter for steals fudge. My first job
it was great. I was a fudge cutter

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for steals fudge in Ocean City, New
Jersey. And then I was a bank teller

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and that'll come into play later As a
bank teller for 1st Pennsylvania,

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Banking and Trust Company. I just
learned from the fudge cutting comes in

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later. The fudge cutting never really
came in later, but it was it's the

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only skill I really ever had. I think
I can cut a perfect pound of fudge

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still to this day. Uh huh.

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Let's see. I graduated from teal in
1968 with a degree in sociology, minor

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in psychology. And then my husband and
I went to Princeton, New Jersey

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where he attended Princeton
Theological Seminary. So this was, let's see

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the late 60s and uh we both became
very active in the antiwar movement. It

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was the era of Vietnam. I know you
recall that even though you're a little

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younger than I am. And uh so I wanted
to be a social worker. So I found a

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job with the department of mental
retardation in the state of New Jersey,

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another creatively named organization.
It was called the Department of

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institutions and agencies. Very, very,
very creative, very, very common.

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Yeah. So I was a social worker for a
caseworker for mentally retarded

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adults and Children. I worked in the
field services division and our job

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was to go around and work with
families who were waiting for their

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Children's name to pop up on the
waiting list for institutions. You

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remember back then, mostly mentally
retarded folks were um

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institutionalized. I also got to help
people who came out of the

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institutions and we're trying to
acclimate to the community. So I did that

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for two years. And what I learned from
that was that I didn't want to be a

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direct service worker and I got pretty
frustrated by the inability of the

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system to provide for the Children and
adults that I was working for. So I

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started to get really interested in
politics and how to influence public

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policy. Um so um all right then, uh I
decided to quit my job and go back

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to school to get my Masters in social
work and I went to Rutgers. My

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husband at the time was in a joint
program where he was getting his

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seminary degree as well as a social
work degree. So we went back to school

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together and there was no way I was
going to study direct casework after

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my experience. So I went into a a
specialty on policy development. So as a

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result of that um activity and
Rutgers, I wound up as an intern at the New

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Jersey State Legislature and there I
attended a seminar in atlantic city

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New Jersey and met a fellow who was
writing a federal grant to provide

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staffing to the Arizona Legislature in
human services. So we got to

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talking and and he said, you know, why
don't why don't you come out to

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Arizona and I said Arizona gee, that's
further than Pittsburgh, isn't it?

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That's really far away. So he said
come on out for a conference. And uh so

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rick and I went out for a conference
to Tucson, I think it was in November

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of 1971. Well, you know, the weather
in Philadelphia in November is so

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great. And so here I showed up in
Tucson and the sun was shining and there

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were these huge cactus and mountains
and I thought, wow, this is an

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interesting place. Did your dad say
you could go? Uh

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well, let me tell you, I was afraid to
tell my mother that we were moving

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out to Arizona. I did tell my father
first and I had to get his permission

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to even tell my mother because I she
was not happy with this, But it was a

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two year grant. So that was 1972. So
we came out here for two years in

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1972. Funny thing is I'm still here so
Well, that was interesting. Anyway

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, I got here in February of 72 and the
sun was shining. We were in the

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middle of a big drought, I thought I
had died and gone to heaven. Um It

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never rained from february until june
now I know that's a problem and not

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good, but I still remember uh I was
working at the legislature then and

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people ran out into the courtyard
between the house and the Senate

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building and they were all looking up
at the sky and say, look, there are

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clouds and I thought these people are
really strange here.

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Really strange, but now I get it now
I'm excited on a cloudy day after,

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you know, 40 some years. Um Well,
let's see what happened after that. Okay

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, so I was working at the state
legislature. I was staffing the health and

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welfare committee in the House of
Representatives that was chaired by Sam

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McConnell from Flagstaff. And that was
when Tim Barrow was speaker of the

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House. I did that for about two
sessions and then I came over to the

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Senate and started working for Sandra
O'Connor, who at that time was the

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majority leader of the Senate, and
Bill J. Quinn was the president of the

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Senate. Um

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Sandra also had me providing staffing
assistance to the Health and Welfare

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committee in the Senate and that was
chaired by Doug Holdsclaw. The first

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assignment that I had in both the
House and the Senate was to really look

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at state government reorganization
first in the House And Senate Bill 1068

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was my big project. That was the bill
creating the Department of Economic

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Security, which we both worked for
years later. So I got to Actually

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helped write that legislation to
create that department. When I came over

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to the Senate, they were looking at
getting into Medicaid, which was title

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19 of the Social Security Act. Arizona
was the last state and territory to

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join Medicaid. And it was a long, hard
battle and I think, you remember

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parts of it certainly indeed. Um

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in 1974 and the elections in 1970 for
the dems took over. The democrats

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took over the state Senate and the
gubernatorial uh role Raul Castro was

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elected. Um It was a time of a lot of
change. The Republicans had been in

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charge of both the House and Senate
and Governor's office for um some 10

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12 years since about 19 well maybe
longer since about 1966 68. So this was

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a big change to have the democrats in
control in the Senate. The House was

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still controlled by republicans and we
had Raul Castro's governor, Alfredo

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Gutierrez became majority leader and
he asked me to become his special

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assistant. So that's when I went from
working with the republicans to

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working with the democrats. I did that
for four sessions. And then uh

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that's then at that point I got
recruited for my first time at A. S. U.

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And that was in 19

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Let Me Think 1978.

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Yeah 1978. So um I came to A S. U. To
head the title 20 manpower project

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for the School of social work, do you
know Miguel Montero? Okay, well

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Miguel was a professor in the school
of Social work and he Asked me to

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come and run this project at the time.
It was almost 50% of the school's

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budget and we were employing 25
faculty members. The project was designed

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to recruit and train social workers
primarily for minority and rural

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communities. So that was a very
interesting thing to do. Yeah. Was that a

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full time job was a full time job. I
left the Senate to do that. So I did

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that for mm hmm. A little over six
months when Bill Jamison came knocking

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on my door and I have to go back a
little bit. Um Raul Castro who was

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elected in 1974 served for a couple of
terms. And then Jimmy Carter

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appointed him as Ambassador to
Argentina Argentina. And so

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let's see West Bolin became governor
because he was secretary of state.

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Excuse me. But then West boland died
after five months in office. And so

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Bruce babbitt was Attorney general and
he became governor Bruce bat that

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Bruce babbitt appointed Bill Jamieson.
This is now 1978

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I guess. And Bill was putting together
his team at the Department of

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Economic Security And he wanted me to
come and run the planning and budget

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entitled 20 and staff development and
training. So I left A. S. U. After

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only six months and Miguel said go go.
I understand. And I went to D. E. S.

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And of course it's at DS where we
actually met. Yes, we did. What year

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did you come to 76 76. Okay. So I
actually started there in 79 and you

00:13:46.649 --> 00:13:49.417
were in the developmental disabilities
division, developmental

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disabilities. And uh you know that was
mental retardation was my first job.

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So I felt a particular affinity for
developmental disabilities and one of

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the things that we did in planning and
budget for D. E. S is we pretty

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much adopted all the planning and
budget um processes that you were using

00:14:12.659 --> 00:14:16.457
in the division and that I know you
were greatly involved in. You did

00:14:16.490 --> 00:14:20.707
would you evaluation at that point.
Where were you you were evaluation for

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my first job and so I was assistant
director for four years and

00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:37.697
we let me see when babbitt's second
term when he was elected to a second

00:14:37.730 --> 00:14:42.486
term, he um pulled Bill Jamieson over
his Department of Administration

00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:47.146
Director. And so there was a search
Douglas. Patino was brought in and

00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:52.646
Douglas asked me to be his deputy
Director at D. E. S. Um And at some

00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.506
point along the way we made you
Director of service delivery assessment

00:14:56.539 --> 00:15:00.866
for the entire department at some
point that the department created the

00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:05.047
Office of Program evaluation. That was
actual official name. That's okay.

00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.947
Um and then I moved from dee dee over
to there but I've been doing a lot

00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:15.026
of that even in D. D. D. Because there
was nobody at this department level

00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:22.366
to do that. So yes, so that was really
the start of my reliance on you and

00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.486
it continued on and continues to this
day. So I'm really glad you're doing

00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:29.236
this interview, you know, all of this
history. So you didn't leave me

00:15:29.269 --> 00:15:32.976
behind when you left the E. S. I did
not leave you behind when I left the

00:15:33.009 --> 00:15:40.646
ES so I I was deputy Director for
about three years and then babbitt's

00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.807
term was coming to an end.

00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:49.876
So at that point Brent Brown recruited
me for, I ask you, well we're going

00:15:49.909 --> 00:15:54.587
to turn to our second theme then the
first being the path to A. S. U. The

00:15:54.620 --> 00:16:00.106
second thing what happened at A. S. U.
It sounds like

00:16:00.139 --> 00:16:07.366
a scary topic, doesn't it does so much
happened. Um You've told us that

00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.537
you were there in the late seventies
and then you came back um What

00:16:11.570 --> 00:16:16.986
happened once you arrived back in 86
what was a S. You like then who were

00:16:17.019 --> 00:16:21.217
the players that you interacted with?
And then we'll talk a little bit

00:16:21.250 --> 00:16:24.646
next about how your career and focused
evolved. But basically what

00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:27.606
happened when you got back

00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:35.096
In 1986, Brent Brown was working, he
was the vice president for university

00:16:35.129 --> 00:16:42.126
relations. And jay russell nelson was
president ah I think the session

00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:47.457
before that the legislature had passed
with a footnote some money to

00:16:47.490 --> 00:16:52.276
create a downtown center in downtown
phoenix for A. S. U. And President

00:16:52.309 --> 00:16:57.467
nelson was not that anxious to really
get moving on that. And there was

00:16:57.500 --> 00:17:01.587
some pressure from downtown business
folks. And so Brent finally went to

00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:06.006
President nelson and said we really
need to move forward on this. So Brent

00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.246
recruited me for that position. And
and I came into to start the downtown

00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:17.667
center. I did have one brief period
away from A. S. You between 86 2000

00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:22.637
and five. That was in 1988 after Evan
Mecham had been impeached, Rose

00:17:22.670 --> 00:17:28.197
Mofford became governor and I served
for about half a year as her

00:17:28.230 --> 00:17:32.887
executive assistant charge of health
and welfare. So there was some little

00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:40.920
break but not much. Um so at A. S. U.
At that time there was,

00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:48.217
I think Jack Kinzinger was provost at
that time. Um and then right around

00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:55.347
the time I came in, Roland Hayden
became provost for a while. Um Mhm Brent

00:17:55.380 --> 00:18:00.766
was enormously supportive of creating
the downtown center. Um Alan Price

00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:05.746
was working with him and of course
we've lost both Brent and Alan within

00:18:05.779 --> 00:18:09.986
the last couple of years and that's
been a terrible loss. But Brent and

00:18:10.019 --> 00:18:15.687
alan were my primary advocates and
helpers during those first couple of

00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:21.016
years. When we started the downtown
centre, Brent had signed a lease with

00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:25.726
Phoenix Union High School for five
years And we were tucked away in a

00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:30.347
corner of the Old Phoenix Union High
School campus, northwest corner of

00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:35.467
7th and Vampire. That's right. And uh
I remember when Larry Core first

00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:39.687
came to visit when he was appointed in
1990, he said it was the only

00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:43.246
center in the university where you
needed a degree to find the front door.

00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:47.707
It was really tucked away from, it
wasn't much of a front, it was really

00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:53.857
tucked away. So uh we didn't have a
lot in the way of resources. We had

00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:58.867
maybe seven classes from the School of
public affairs that were, um, being

00:18:58.900 --> 00:19:02.967
held there. The School of public
affairs was, I think along with the

00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:08.137
College of Engineering, the, they were
the two colleges or the schools

00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:14.246
that were most interested in reaching
out to the community. Engineering

00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:20.607
had a long tradition of providing
televised courses in corporate locations

00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.266
and the School of public Affairs had a
very long history of providing off

00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:29.486
campus courses. So when you first came
to the downtown center, basically,

00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:35.117
the classes were offered at the
center. Yes, they had previously, they

00:19:35.150 --> 00:19:39.107
were offered in state government
conference rooms and all over the place

00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:43.697
and we consolidated most of them at
the downtown center, the engineer, we

00:19:43.730 --> 00:19:48.927
had an engineering, um, television
site there, but the classes were still

00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:54.316
being broadcast to corporations and
um, So it was a place, it was a place

00:19:54.349 --> 00:19:59.756
, it became a center, a place for off
campus activities. I do remember the

00:19:59.789 --> 00:20:04.967
first um, school year that we opened
in 1986, I brought over Margo Rivero

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:10.197
Wilson from at D. E. S. That was one
person I brought over Fran. Marcus

00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:14.586
was our executive assistant and we
right before classes started, we

00:20:14.619 --> 00:20:20.357
realized that we needed chalk for the
uh, blackboards and we needed a

00:20:20.390 --> 00:20:25.766
racers and we had to run out to a
supply store and uh, and get those

00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:30.506
things so that we were ready for the,
for classes. It was dating yourself

00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:38.539
, but it was, it was, it was the
start, so we had quite a difficult time

00:20:38.730 --> 00:20:42.996
trying to convince faculty members to
come and teach downtown. So I

00:20:43.029 --> 00:20:46.957
started spending a lot of my time
going around and meeting with schools

00:20:46.990 --> 00:20:51.887
and faculty and deans and saying, you
know, come on down to the downtown

00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.536
center. It's a great place to teach.
Will provide coffee for the faculty,

00:20:55.569 --> 00:21:00.697
we'll, we'll we'll set up your
classrooms, all of the things that will

00:21:00.730 --> 00:21:05.697
provide the chalk. We we moved to
white boards and we provided the markers

00:21:05.730 --> 00:21:09.967
ah L. A. Wilson, who taught at the
School of Public Affairs, used to call

00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.657
it down home. You remember that
because we made it really comfortable and

00:21:14.690 --> 00:21:18.736
, and and nice for the faculty to
teach there. So we got more and more

00:21:18.769 --> 00:21:23.506
interest in people teaching off
campus. Um

00:21:23.539 --> 00:21:31.539
so a year or so went by and Roland
Hayden became provost, he set up a

00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:38.347
committee to look at off campus
programs. And lou Wessler who at that time

00:21:38.380 --> 00:21:43.107
was dean of the School of public of
the college of Public programs rather.

00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:49.127
And Miguel Monte. El again, Miguel
shows up in my life, he was um at the

00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:54.256
time assistant vice president and
working in the provost's office. So the

00:21:54.289 --> 00:21:58.256
two of them co chaired this committee
on off campus programs and I was on

00:21:58.289 --> 00:22:03.157
it. Uh uh and they're there, I think
there were 22 people from all over

00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:07.236
the university. So that committee was
charged with looking at off campus

00:22:07.269 --> 00:22:11.326
programs and figuring out if there
ought to be a more coherent way to

00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:16.816
organize them and and deal with them.
Um There had been a presence of

00:22:16.849 --> 00:22:22.766
extension was called extension and And
summer sessions but had been

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.607
decentralized in 1983.

00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:33.907
Ah President Nelson was the president
of A. S. You when A. S. U. West was

00:22:33.940 --> 00:22:37.556
created. And that came about through a
lot of pressure from the

00:22:37.589 --> 00:22:40.657
legislature and through the Westside
community. Again, there was

00:22:40.690 --> 00:22:45.637
resistance from the university. So
back in those times, back in those days

00:22:45.670 --> 00:22:50.736
, that was in the early eighties. Um
The extension program provided a lot

00:22:50.769 --> 00:22:54.687
of the off campus classes for the west
side. A. S. U. West was created in

00:22:54.720 --> 00:23:01.447
1982 and all those classes went to
West. Um So there was very little left

00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:06.296
for extension to do and it got
decentralized in 83. So here it was now in

00:23:06.329 --> 00:23:08.387
1987,

00:23:08.420 --> 00:23:11.467
And the university was again looking
at what do they need to do about off

00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:16.016
campus programs. So the report was
issued and it was suggested that a

00:23:16.049 --> 00:23:24.049
college be created at the or a senior
level position be created for

00:23:25.029 --> 00:23:31.427
extended education. Um I think at that
time then about 88, Dick Peck

00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:35.756
arrived on the scene as provost and he
was from the University of Alabama.

00:23:35.789 --> 00:23:41.736
He brought in as one of his assistant
vice presidents, Dennis Priske also

00:23:41.769 --> 00:23:49.769
from Alabama who had run continuing
education for Alabama. And so That's

00:23:50.009 --> 00:23:53.867
when the idea came about for a college
of extended education and about

00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:59.407
that time frame 88 89. Um,

00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.476
meanwhile, back at the downtown
center, I took on another role and that

00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:10.857
was overseeing Project Prime, which
was a program um,

00:24:10.890 --> 00:24:17.806
focused on hispanic students in high
schools, primarily looking at

00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:24.726
intervention programs to help them do
better in school. It was funded by

00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:32.627
the college board and Gary Gary Keller
Professor and I believe he's in the

00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:38.127
liberal arts. Uh, he was the co
director and again, Miguel Montiel was

00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:42.937
involved in that as well. So that was
housed at the downtown center. And

00:24:42.970 --> 00:24:50.657
uh, we brought in john Lincoln to run
that program and uh, that was part

00:24:50.690 --> 00:24:54.687
of my operation for several years
until we could spin it out on its own. I

00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:59.617
was responsible for the downtown
center and Project Prime. Um, when Dennis

00:24:59.650 --> 00:25:02.707
Priske arrived,

00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:08.377
I got to talking with him, he had to
create a plan for creating the

00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:12.127
college. And so he was going around
and figuring out what units he thought

00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.566
ought to be in the college to the
college wasn't college wasn't created

00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:17.607
yet.

00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.306
So he talked to me and I thought it
would make a lot of sense for the

00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:27.717
downtown center to become part of the
college. He also pulled in the

00:25:27.750 --> 00:25:35.750
remnants of extension that was still
around and also the american language

00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.306
and culture program, it was called at
the time. So in 1990

00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:47.207
um boy it was, it was a crazy time at
the university, I think jay Russell

00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:54.736
nelson left in 90 Maybe. And Laddie
Corps arrived right around that time,

00:25:54.769 --> 00:25:58.076
there was a period of time where Dick
Peck actually was acting president

00:25:58.109 --> 00:26:02.056
during that whole period of time
before, between Russell Nelson and and

00:26:02.089 --> 00:26:04.806
larry core.

00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:11.006
So when laddie arrived, it was co
terminus with the

00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:15.276
Creation of the college and I believe
the region's create officially

00:26:15.309 --> 00:26:19.207
created it. In June of 1990,

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:23.726
Dennis asked me to be his associate
dean of the college. Dennis became the

00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:29.806
dean, I became the associate dean and
Geneva Duarte became the director of

00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:33.907
the downtown center. So

00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:39.276
that was how I started out with
college. Dennis left after about a year

00:26:39.309 --> 00:26:46.107
and a half. Soon after milk click
arrived as provost and Milt

00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:53.127
asked me to be dean. Okay, so in 91 I
became dean and milt was then in

00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.907
places as

00:26:55.940 --> 00:27:03.940
provost and Laddie had brought with
him from the University of Vermont,

00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:09.467
a gentleman by the name of Ben
Forsythe and Ben took a lot of interest in

00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:14.607
extended education and was trying to
figure out,

00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.117
he was trying to figure out how we
could use extended education to create

00:27:18.150 --> 00:27:22.167
more student credit hours for the
university because our funding at that

00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.927
time was based on the number of
student credit hours that we could

00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:30.776
generate. So I remember him going over
and working with Elaine Sweet, who

00:27:30.809 --> 00:27:35.927
at that time was in the, the
university budget office and she had been the

00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:40.367
, the analyst who worked with both the
downtown center and with the

00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:48.400
college. And Elaine and Ben came up
with this idea of giving the college

00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:53.236
some money for us to go out and
convince colleges to hold courses off

00:27:53.269 --> 00:27:58.907
campus and through technology and
thereby create more student credit hours.

00:27:58.940 --> 00:28:03.717
So he came to me and said, are you
willing to try this? And I said, sure

00:28:03.750 --> 00:28:09.407
, I'll give it a try, you know, with
your help and encouragement. So off

00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:15.117
we went at that time, the student
credit hours generated through extended

00:28:15.150 --> 00:28:23.006
education where maybe Under 2% of the
university student credit hours. And

00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.486
By the time we got done, we had gotten
that percentage up quite a bit to

00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:32.306
more than 8% of of the student credit
hours. So we, we had a mission. Ben

00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:40.339
asked us to go out and see what we
could do. Um I started really um

00:28:42.740 --> 00:28:47.986
talking at great length with all the
dean's, talking to them about how we

00:28:48.019 --> 00:28:52.937
could do this together, how the
expertise that my folks could bring to

00:28:52.970 --> 00:28:56.986
them would make it easy for their
faculty to go out and teach off campus

00:28:57.019 --> 00:29:00.766
or teach through technology and we
bring in more student credit hours and

00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.907
then the colleges at that time were
rewarded for their student credit hour

00:29:04.940 --> 00:29:11.387
production by more money. So it was a
good deal. And I developed wonderful

00:29:11.420 --> 00:29:15.217
relationships with the other deans,
they were, most of them were willing

00:29:15.250 --> 00:29:18.347
to play to figure out how to do is
that when you started the dean's dinner

00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:23.897
, that's well, it was, it was around
that time we uh, the dean's used to

00:29:23.930 --> 00:29:28.607
get together, we'd all, we'd all take
turns hosting the dinners at some

00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:32.526
really nice place where we could have
a private room and we would get

00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:35.826
together and have these lovely dinners
and drink wine and plan what we

00:29:35.859 --> 00:29:40.256
were going to do. It drove milk crazy.
And one time we invited him to come

00:29:40.289 --> 00:29:45.286
with us and it changed the whole
dynamic because we were all afraid to

00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:48.437
talk, you know, so,

00:29:48.470 --> 00:29:53.036
but but we we had was not only social
as I recall the stories, but it was

00:29:53.069 --> 00:29:57.546
really important that college, it
seems to me couldn't really accomplish

00:29:57.579 --> 00:30:02.407
its mission without being in
partnership with the other. The other.

00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:05.836
Absolutely, absolutely. It was very
important was the only way you could

00:30:05.869 --> 00:30:09.707
accomplish your job. Absolutely. Um,

00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:16.707
that was one of the challenges that we
faced. And um, okay, we, we really

00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:21.127
had very little control over the final
product. We could only try to

00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.736
convince cajole and explain to folks
how important it was, it was very

00:30:25.769 --> 00:30:29.506
important at that time to have laddie
cours support and milk support Ben's

00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:33.576
support. Um, everybody was kind of
behind us and if we could make this

00:30:33.609 --> 00:30:39.407
happen and and and we did. So that was
that was very very very exciting.

00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:46.976
Um I think one of the the real
challenges for

00:30:47.009 --> 00:30:50.457
extension, continuing education,
extended education, whatever name you

00:30:50.490 --> 00:30:55.887
want to give it, one of the real
challenges for that activity at A. S. U.

00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:01.407
Has has been that it has a long
history. Um

00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.877
Actually, the first extension class
was created in 1927, believe it or not

00:31:05.910 --> 00:31:09.447
, was that correspondence? And no,
that was correspondence came along in

00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:14.437
1935, but in 1927 there was, it was
actually an extension course offered

00:31:14.470 --> 00:31:18.707
off campus somewhere. I don't know
what it was, but I know it happened. Um

00:31:18.740 --> 00:31:23.336
and And as you mentioned,
correspondent studies started in 1935 and then

00:31:23.369 --> 00:31:30.476
in 1955, um educational tv started. So
there's a long history uh for most

00:31:30.509 --> 00:31:37.127
of the history, there was a senior
executive responsible. Uh Denny Keegan

00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:42.576
was the director or vice President, I
think that was in charge of

00:31:42.609 --> 00:31:47.726
extension and summer sessions and he
did it for many years. Um but he

00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:51.776
retired in 1983. And at that point, as
I mentioned before, a rescue west

00:31:51.809 --> 00:31:57.016
came in and kind of all all dissolved.
So there was a long history, but

00:31:57.049 --> 00:31:59.707
not

00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:06.246
not a really deep history of it being
run the same way in the university.

00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:14.279
It um it wasn't really embedded as
deeply as I think it could have been.

00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:20.776
It was very subject to the whims of
whoever was leading the university and

00:32:20.809 --> 00:32:25.697
also to the external factors like the
creation of additional campuses. We

00:32:25.730 --> 00:32:32.806
talked about a sus A. S. U. East came
along now called the polytechnic. Um

00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:36.457
when A S. U. East was being started
again. Extended Edwards looked to and

00:32:36.490 --> 00:32:40.546
we sent folks out to really get it
going before we moved courses. I

00:32:40.579 --> 00:32:45.887
remember Jim Patzer used to go over
and and and and hold the programs

00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:50.306
there before A. S. U. East officially
open to get people used to coming

00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:56.036
there. So it's had a long history of
being a real Trailblazer. Um but then

00:32:56.069 --> 00:33:00.447
you know what happens? And it happened
in 1983 and I think it happened

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:07.387
again um after I left the colleges get
really interested in controlling it

00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:13.137
themselves. Why do they need help? And
yes why do they need that? And so

00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:19.637
it's had that kind of um cyclical
development all during the time at A S.

00:33:19.670 --> 00:33:24.056
U. And that was one of our very big
challenges and keeping and keeping it

00:33:24.089 --> 00:33:28.266
going and continuing to do our
lectures. And then you've talked a bit

00:33:28.299 --> 00:33:32.566
about challenges. Were there other
challenges that you face that you

00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:36.516
haven't mentioned so far? Well I think
the biggest challenge was that

00:33:36.549 --> 00:33:41.467
there was just constant change. My
title stayed the same for a lot of

00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:46.197
years. But my job changed just about
every year between Ben and Milton

00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:51.467
Laddie and Brent they'd come up with a
new wrinkle of how we needed to

00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:55.476
move extended ed for a particular
university need and that's that's the

00:33:55.509 --> 00:34:00.207
way it ought to be used. So that was
good, but it was never boring, it was

00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:08.086
never boring. And you mentioned how we
met at D. S. And continued our

00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:14.307
association since then, um you were
with us the entire time is our

00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:21.086
strategic Planning and evaluation
consultant. Um You you helped us focus

00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:27.267
on what Laddie, Ben and Milt one and
from us and then we would structure

00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:32.986
our entire plan for the year and for
the coming years around what they

00:34:33.019 --> 00:34:36.856
needed us to do and of course we go
back and revisit the plan each year

00:34:36.889 --> 00:34:43.977
and shift and move and we we did very
specific planning very we were very

00:34:44.010 --> 00:34:48.577
intentional, we were very values
driven to to make sure we could deliver

00:34:48.610 --> 00:34:53.956
what needed to be delivered because it
was a very amorphous situation. We

00:34:53.989 --> 00:34:58.367
were a college but not like the other
colleges. Uh it was a dean, but not

00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:02.106
like the other deans. So it was it was
a challenge. I I don't know if

00:35:02.139 --> 00:35:05.646
you're planning to talk about this and
I'm just throwing you a curveball

00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:09.706
here, but um you know, I remember a
conversation over the years about

00:35:09.739 --> 00:35:15.807
whether the college should have its
own programs versus just supporting

00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:21.597
what the other colleges do because
some um extended education institutions

00:35:21.630 --> 00:35:25.497
do that. So there were a lot of
conversations over the years about

00:35:25.530 --> 00:35:31.876
different models as I recall. Right?
That's absolutely true. And um when

00:35:31.909 --> 00:35:37.497
um when President Crow arrived in 2002
I think that conversation really

00:35:37.530 --> 00:35:42.566
intensified because he was trying to
figure out exactly how he wanted to

00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:49.236
do it. And um I remember we went
around to different universities looking

00:35:49.269 --> 00:35:54.276
at particular models, trying to see
which one was going to find a home at

00:35:54.309 --> 00:35:58.907
A. S. U. And of course the one that
actually emerged subsequent to my

00:35:58.940 --> 00:36:04.506
departure, it was a hybrid of many of
the models that we looked at. So

00:36:04.539 --> 00:36:10.597
there are a variety of approaches to
extending education. One was through

00:36:10.630 --> 00:36:15.387
distance learning technology. The
other was through in the early days the

00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:21.197
correspondence which I assumed doesn't
exist anymore, went away. Um And

00:36:21.230 --> 00:36:25.517
then the off campus site so there were
a lot of different strategies for

00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:33.276
extending A. S. U. Into the community,
be it local or national or even

00:36:33.309 --> 00:36:37.026
international. I know you did some
things internationally as well. Right?

00:36:37.059 --> 00:36:43.057
That's absolutely correct. The reason
that laddie and Ben and Milt focused

00:36:43.090 --> 00:36:47.247
in on the giving us money to create
student credit hours was because of

00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:51.526
the funding formula that A. S. U. Has
that the universities have in

00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:56.796
Arizona many of the other models that
we visited in other states have

00:36:56.829 --> 00:37:01.847
different funding formulas. And so it
didn't make as much sense. And, and

00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.276
of course there's been such a struggle
with the economy and with

00:37:05.309 --> 00:37:10.637
university funding and more recent
years that it's even been more

00:37:10.670 --> 00:37:15.956
difficult perhaps more than any other
college. It's really context driven

00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:21.456
, environment driven in a lot of ways.
Absolutely, Absolutely. That's true

00:37:21.489 --> 00:37:27.046
because it's got to fit what the
administration is is going for and uh,

00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:31.597
that's the great utility of it. But
also the great challenge, right?

00:37:31.630 --> 00:37:35.447
Because it doesn't have its own
independent. How do you do a five year

00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.697
plan when every year? Every year is
different? Right. Are you ready to

00:37:39.730 --> 00:37:43.907
talk about the hallmarks of the
downtown center and the college of

00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:47.956
Extended education? So what would you
say set apart? You want to talk

00:37:47.989 --> 00:37:52.296
about them together or separately?
Talk about them together. Okay. So what

00:37:52.329 --> 00:37:58.427
do you think set them apart was
distinctive about those entities? Well,

00:37:58.460 --> 00:38:02.416
we've touched on some of it because we
didn't have a life independent of,

00:38:02.449 --> 00:38:07.916
of what the president needed us to do
and given that as the context, we

00:38:07.949 --> 00:38:15.606
really, we're very purposeful in
working on our values first and figuring

00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:20.736
out the commonality of our values and
the commonality of what we brought

00:38:20.769 --> 00:38:25.557
to the table. So we, we were very
conscious whether it was three of us at

00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:29.856
the downtown center buying chalk and
racers in the, in the early days or a

00:38:29.889 --> 00:38:37.889
staff of 100 in the college and when
it was at its at its greatest. So um

00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:43.236
we we started with that every year
mostly with your guidance, really

00:38:43.269 --> 00:38:50.066
probing us to, to put our values on
the table and to uh enumerate them and

00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:55.356
uh talk about them. It was really true
that the, the value statements were

00:38:55.389 --> 00:39:00.086
not just, you know five or six bullet
points on a piece of paper, every

00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:05.316
word and every statement had meaning
and there was a whole conversation

00:39:05.349 --> 00:39:11.396
behind every word and phrase. Um but
the the time that that jumps into my

00:39:11.429 --> 00:39:15.217
mind is one of the retreats. We
actually took the values and used them as

00:39:15.250 --> 00:39:20.387
evaluation criteria and determine what
was it that the college was doing

00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:25.066
that was evidence of behavior
consistent with those values. And on the

00:39:25.099 --> 00:39:30.756
other hand, where were you not
performing up to the level that your values

00:39:30.789 --> 00:39:34.646
would suggest you might, what were the
new ideas. So it was interesting

00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.236
that it was, you know, like I said not
just bullet points on a piece of

00:39:37.269 --> 00:39:42.416
paper but both the planning and an
evaluation tool. We, we did try to live

00:39:42.449 --> 00:39:50.449
that um, I think of Ron Alvarado Ron.
We also lost last year. Ron was our

00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:56.347
very first associate dean in the
college and what a dear man, he was from

00:39:56.380 --> 00:40:00.977
the College of Liberal arts and
Sciences very wise.

00:40:01.010 --> 00:40:04.506
When I first came up with the idea of
having an associate dean, I asked

00:40:04.539 --> 00:40:07.557
Milt who he thought might be good and
he told me to go talk to the dean's

00:40:07.590 --> 00:40:13.887
. I went to Gary Crandell who was the
dean of Liberal arts and Sciences

00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:18.756
and first name out of his mouth was
Ron Alvarado. And so you know I called

00:40:18.789 --> 00:40:23.367
Ron up and we went to lunch with them.
He he was just the most wonderful

00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:30.597
addition to our college. Um He um I
remember it retreats. He would really

00:40:30.630 --> 00:40:35.467
focus on the words do you remember? He
was a great wordsmith alignment,

00:40:35.500 --> 00:40:40.586
alignment alignment the right word. We
he he he slept on that overnight to

00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:45.577
make sure that was the right word. He
he really was a thoughtful fellow.

00:40:45.610 --> 00:40:50.677
And uh of course Ron is behind one of
the things that I think is the

00:40:50.710 --> 00:40:56.227
hallmark of the college and that was
his focus on creating consistent and

00:40:56.260 --> 00:41:02.717
predictable degree programs for uh
part time working adults Ron because of

00:41:02.750 --> 00:41:06.776
his the depth and breadth of his
experience at at A. S. U. And with the

00:41:06.809 --> 00:41:11.086
college of liberal arts he knew that
we had to really get down into the

00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:14.157
nitty gritty of when we're the courses
offered that were required for

00:41:14.190 --> 00:41:20.477
degrees. And he did this very
intensive review of evening degree programs

00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:25.427
at liberal arts and sciences. You
remember that and there were a lot of

00:41:25.460 --> 00:41:32.486
students at that time who were stuck
in in parts of their academic career

00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:35.416
and they couldn't they had a lot of
student credit hours but couldn't

00:41:35.449 --> 00:41:38.916
didn't have enough to write degree,
get out the door with a degree, right

00:41:38.949 --> 00:41:45.427
? And one of the things Ron found out
was that you could get almost all

00:41:45.460 --> 00:41:49.747
your courses in the evenings and the
weekends for certain degrees in

00:41:49.780 --> 00:41:54.706
liberal arts, but there were certain
courses that were never offered it at

00:41:54.739 --> 00:41:58.546
either nighttime or weekend time. So
if you could only go on nights and

00:41:58.579 --> 00:42:01.586
weekends, you couldn't get a degree.
So there were a bunch of these stuck

00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:05.106
students. Well, that was a really big
problem for Milk Glick and for

00:42:05.139 --> 00:42:10.037
laddie that we had all these students
who were stuck. So Ron created this

00:42:10.070 --> 00:42:15.217
wonderful evening degree program that
we paid the College of liberal arts

00:42:15.250 --> 00:42:19.967
to offer the courses that were the
bottleneck courses on evenings and

00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:24.506
weekends. We paid them additional
money to sweeten the pot and all of a

00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:28.117
sudden we were able to get all of
these students through with their, with

00:42:28.150 --> 00:42:31.727
their degrees. So that's an excellent
example of how extended ed could be

00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.037
a tool to solve some of the university
problems. Degree completion degree

00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:42.467
completion was a big problem, so that
I think was one of the hallmarks was

00:42:42.500 --> 00:42:49.856
creating these uh depend on
predictable uh predictable schedules for

00:42:49.889 --> 00:42:57.847
people to complete their degrees. Um
That really is the underlying um

00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:01.997
commitment that I think the college
had and the downtown center had as

00:43:02.030 --> 00:43:07.296
well. That commitment to do what
needed to be done for students who can't

00:43:07.329 --> 00:43:11.736
go full time, the part time working
adult, uh, the university is not set

00:43:11.769 --> 00:43:16.186
up for them at the universities are
set up for full time students, Faculty

00:43:16.219 --> 00:43:20.827
really like the full time students
because that's how they earn their

00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:24.566
bread and butter these, these part
time students are much more challenging

00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:29.506
for the faculty. And so we did
everything in our power to try to make it

00:43:29.539 --> 00:43:32.876
easy for the faculty to serve these
students and to make it easy for the

00:43:32.909 --> 00:43:38.137
students to access the university. I
think that is a tremendous hallmark

00:43:38.170 --> 00:43:42.557
of, of the two entities that, that I
was involved in. Another hallmark, I

00:43:42.590 --> 00:43:48.126
think is our connection to the
community. We were, the college itself was

00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:52.867
housed in the downtown center in
downtown phoenix, so we were right there

00:43:52.900 --> 00:43:57.427
in, in the middle of the action. Uh,
there were 100,000 people a year that

00:43:57.460 --> 00:44:01.367
came through the downtown center. I
can remember frank Fairbanks saying

00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.896
that they had most of the city
meetings that they needed to have outside

00:44:04.929 --> 00:44:08.977
of, you know, a little conference was
with the city of when he was, when

00:44:09.010 --> 00:44:13.557
he was, thank you when he was city
manager for the city of phoenix. Um,

00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:18.387
The city was just constantly in and
out there. We housed the downtown

00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:23.447
Phoenix Partnership uh, in, in our
location of the more we did move in

00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:30.117
1990, when our 91. Yeah, we moved from
the campus of phoenix union high

00:44:30.150 --> 00:44:34.486
school district. When our five year
lease was up. We moved over to the old

00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:40.787
Mikado and redesigned it for the
downtown center and eventually a few

00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:44.767
years later we actually even bought
the property and it became of course

00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:52.396
the Foundation for a sus downtown
campus now. Um So that's I think another

00:44:52.429 --> 00:44:58.307
important hallmark and everybody on
earth in downtown phoenix used the the

00:44:58.340 --> 00:45:03.756
building for their meetings.
Absolutely like you said people were in and

00:45:03.789 --> 00:45:08.997
is bringing a sus an awareness of A.
S. U. I think to government agencies

00:45:09.030 --> 00:45:15.287
and nonprofits, nonprofits businesses.
Absolutely. Yeah it was it was that

00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:20.126
community connection was was very very
important. I think another hallmark

00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:26.796
is our uh need and desire to work very
collaboratively to work with others

00:45:26.829 --> 00:45:30.977
in partnership. We created so many
partnerships, do you remember our

00:45:31.010 --> 00:45:35.586
retreats? We would just be taking
white paper after white paper. The

00:45:35.619 --> 00:45:40.477
partnerships that we created, we had a
son cities office for a while and

00:45:40.510 --> 00:45:46.907
provided provided classes for
retirees. We had partnerships with various

00:45:46.940 --> 00:45:52.816
corporations, not only through the
College of Engineering and Sciences but

00:45:52.849 --> 00:45:57.427
also through other colleges. We Ron
got the Bachelor of interdisciplinary

00:45:57.460 --> 00:46:00.887
on Alvarado, got the Bachelor of
interdisciplinary Studies really going

00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:06.416
and that became a very good degree for
part time students and we had uh

00:46:06.449 --> 00:46:11.287
programs that we were offering in
municipalities way out and Chandler and

00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:17.977
Mesa and Tempe. And so we were making
it really possible for working folks

00:46:18.010 --> 00:46:22.447
to get their degrees. Um

00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:27.467
the the other really terrific thing I
think we did, that's a hallmark is

00:46:27.500 --> 00:46:31.977
that we did increase the student
credit hours that were delivered Um

00:46:32.010 --> 00:46:37.097
through off campus activities, both
technology and uh and physically off

00:46:37.130 --> 00:46:43.447
campus. We went from, as I said, under
2% to over 8% and that was a very

00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:48.287
big sea change in how things were done
it while you're on that. You might

00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:54.066
also comment on the fact that data was
really an important part of of the

00:46:54.099 --> 00:47:00.097
college. I mean, collecting,
collecting detailed information about all of

00:47:00.130 --> 00:47:03.787
variety of things that you were doing.
That's a student credit hours.

00:47:03.820 --> 00:47:08.997
That's a really good point. Milk Glick
was a very detail oriented guy and

00:47:09.030 --> 00:47:14.847
he was in charge and of course we've
lost milk too. I just breaks my heart.

00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:21.606
Two have all these folks gone from us
uh Milt was in charge of the budget

00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:25.387
and he worked very closely with Alan
price and figuring out how to

00:47:25.420 --> 00:47:29.997
maneuver with the budget. With my
experience at the legislature. I was

00:47:30.030 --> 00:47:34.807
very interested in the budget as well.
It had been my job at DS as well.

00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:40.447
So I'm inclined that way. Anyway, I
brought Elaine sweet over from the

00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:45.046
budget office to become Assistant dean
of the college to help us we melt.

00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:50.677
Really liked metrics. He wanted to see
the data and so we produced it for

00:47:50.710 --> 00:47:54.456
him and we showed him what was
happening and that's why milk kept

00:47:54.489 --> 00:47:58.407
supporting us because we were able to
deliver on what we said we would

00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:03.126
deliver and of course you helped us in
pulling all of those things

00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:06.546
together, making sure that we could
evaluate what we were doing, making

00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:10.026
sure we were collecting the data that
we needed to report. I can remember

00:48:10.059 --> 00:48:13.916
meeting after meeting where we tried
to figure out what data was important.

00:48:13.949 --> 00:48:17.137
What could we collect? How did we
collect it? How do we make sure it gets

00:48:17.170 --> 00:48:23.066
collected? It was it was quite an
effort built in the college by extension.

00:48:23.099 --> 00:48:28.677
No pun intended. Yeah, we're into data
before dashboards were cool. Right.

00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:35.907
They were but he was definitely always
into data. Um So um so I think

00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:40.686
then just to wrap up the the question
about the hallmark, the I think the

00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:46.546
biggest hallmark was that we really
tried to leverage our resources to

00:48:46.579 --> 00:48:52.486
help the other colleges do what we
were trying to do for the provost and

00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:57.117
the president. So it was a way of
getting resources from the president and

00:48:57.150 --> 00:49:01.856
then using them as leverage to help
the other colleges do the things that

00:49:01.889 --> 00:49:05.416
Milton Larry we're wanting them to do.
So it was a it was a good

00:49:05.449 --> 00:49:09.836
relationship and a good partnership.
Great.

00:49:09.869 --> 00:49:14.936
Are there any other people would like
to mention?

00:49:14.969 --> 00:49:19.287
It's all such a complicated where I
have a million of them to mention who

00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:22.186
haven't I mentioned

00:49:22.219 --> 00:49:28.137
it's just that the players kept
changing and the, you know, I mean, I

00:49:28.170 --> 00:49:33.206
don't know why you couldn't have
recapped your life history minute, see

00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:37.146
what I mean about it being so
complicated and everybody, I mean I kept the

00:49:37.179 --> 00:49:42.436
same job but it was always different.
It's always different. Never boring

00:49:42.469 --> 00:49:46.967
linda lived through all of it all
sounds familiar, doesn't it? I remember

00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:52.287
one year and every year we would have
this detailed operational plan that

00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:57.626
the staff reported on and we would do
um that we would have the retreat

00:49:57.659 --> 00:50:01.086
and the first day would be have we
done and what we committed to do this

00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.316
year and then what are we going to do
next in the next year. And it was

00:50:04.349 --> 00:50:09.887
one of those years when everything
just changed on a dime and I started

00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:15.827
going through the, the objectives and
I'd read one, how do we do on that?

00:50:15.860 --> 00:50:22.876
Look at me, I read the next one, look
at me, I finally said did you guys

00:50:22.909 --> 00:50:28.217
do anything? It was like, and then it
got so bad. It was like not only had

00:50:28.250 --> 00:50:34.947
they not done the objective the work,
but they said, what did that

00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:38.336
objective mean? We didn't even
remember what it meant, you know, I mean

00:50:38.369 --> 00:50:42.456
when things would change and we just
have to, you know, move because

00:50:42.489 --> 00:50:45.577
usually they were so good about
accomplishing their objectives. But that

00:50:45.610 --> 00:50:49.517
one year, I'll never forget that I was
like talk about a deer in the

00:50:49.550 --> 00:50:55.006
headlights. I remember it was like I
didn't write these. You guys did.

00:50:55.039 --> 00:51:03.039
Well it was a busy year missing. Thank
you along the way. Right, Roger was

00:51:04.690 --> 00:51:11.756
our distance learning with Roger and
Barbara the other day. Yeah right

00:51:11.789 --> 00:51:19.789
there. They're good people then john
mcafee good people. Mhm.

00:51:22.059 --> 00:51:28.177
When my husband passed away we had a
storytelling, the first annual or the

00:51:28.210 --> 00:51:33.126
memorial storytelling event and um
ride your videotape the thing and did a

00:51:33.159 --> 00:51:39.227
DVD and did original music to it and
it's really cool. Fabulous job. Yeah

00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:46.327
, he is good. Mm. Okay. Um Betty who
were some of the pioneers and

00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:51.967
extended education at issue. That's a
great question. Well thanks to Ron

00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:59.166
Alvarado, who did a really extensive
history of extended edit A. S. U. I

00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:05.816
can actually answer that question. Um
Back in 1955

00:52:05.849 --> 00:52:13.157
the A. S. You pioneered televised
courses and the first course was offered

00:52:13.190 --> 00:52:18.336
by a young assistant professor of art
by the name of Gwen Burgess. And it

00:52:18.369 --> 00:52:24.467
was offered over KphO local tv
station. Another pioneering TV instruction

00:52:24.500 --> 00:52:32.500
was Dr. Kino Martinez. He taught
elementary spanish from 1959 to 1970 wow

00:52:32.789 --> 00:52:37.506
and played an important role in
establishing K. E. T. Which was founded

00:52:37.539 --> 00:52:43.666
channel eight at A. S. U. In 1961. Um
That's pretty cool. I think that

00:52:43.699 --> 00:52:48.727
folks are doing it then. And of course
television we still do have an A. S.

00:52:48.760 --> 00:52:52.967
U. Channel that's offered through cox,
there is still coursework

00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:58.367
delivered via television, but of
course the internet eclipsed tv pretty

00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:03.836
much. And A. S. U. Online has been our
way of delivering online classes

00:53:03.869 --> 00:53:09.597
for some time now at at A. S. U. And
the, I mentioned that the College of

00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:16.767
Engineering was really the pioneer of,
of going out to corporations and

00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:20.666
Donovan Evans who was a faculty member
who did an awful lot of course is

00:53:20.699 --> 00:53:26.177
over over both tv and internet. So
there's some of the pioneers that we're

00:53:26.210 --> 00:53:31.787
really grateful to, mm hmm. Roger
carter who's involved with the CSU

00:53:31.820 --> 00:53:35.717
retirees association wasn't able to be
here today, but he was of course

00:53:35.750 --> 00:53:40.557
one of our key players in distance
learning technologies as well as john

00:53:40.590 --> 00:53:43.967
McIntosh. So I, I think it's good to
mention those two folks even though

00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:49.217
they're not here with us today. Um,
are you ready to move to theme 3?

00:53:49.250 --> 00:53:54.907
Alright. And we'll be talking about
distinctive contribution and legacy in

00:53:54.940 --> 00:54:00.396
this section. It's been seven years
since you retired? All right, time

00:54:00.429 --> 00:54:05.077
flies when you're having fun. How have
programs and structures for part

00:54:05.110 --> 00:54:10.356
time students evolved since then?
Well, I do try to keep in touch a little

00:54:10.389 --> 00:54:14.117
bit to know what's going on, even
though I've moved on to other things. Um

00:54:14.150 --> 00:54:19.847
, I uh, I was actually looking at the
A. S. U. Website last night to just

00:54:19.880 --> 00:54:24.177
see what I, what I could see. And of
course a. S. U. Online is alive and

00:54:24.210 --> 00:54:29.986
well and um fill the gear is now the
dean of I believe that's what it's

00:54:30.019 --> 00:54:35.316
called A. S. U. Online. Uh It is
actually evolved as a separate program.

00:54:35.349 --> 00:54:40.697
Their students are separate um Their
degrees and and programs are fairly

00:54:40.730 --> 00:54:45.477
separate as well. Patty Feldman who
ran instructional programs for the

00:54:45.510 --> 00:54:51.807
college since its very beginning is
still involved in her role as I think

00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:57.706
she's assistant provost or associate
provost at A. S. U. Online right now.

00:54:57.739 --> 00:55:01.827
Um They still talk about the extended
campus. Would you remember we

00:55:01.860 --> 00:55:07.356
created the term extended campus for
the network of scheduled sites

00:55:07.389 --> 00:55:11.977
technologies that take a sec all over
A. S. You all over the place. That's

00:55:12.010 --> 00:55:15.407
what we called it when the extended
campus is still the terminology that

00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:20.967
they use. So I think that it's very
interesting that those things are

00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:26.447
still continuing extended it as we
knew it does not exist anymore. They're

00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:31.477
not money being given to an entity to
create student credit hours. The

00:55:31.510 --> 00:55:36.037
whole financing structure, the
university's changed so of course extended

00:55:36.070 --> 00:55:40.956
it had to change this with it. Um One
other thing that I learned just this

00:55:40.989 --> 00:55:44.947
week is that one of the units of the
old college that's now in A. S. U.

00:55:44.980 --> 00:55:49.276
Online is called the american english
and culture program that's a

00:55:49.309 --> 00:55:54.947
program that trained trains
international teaching assistants so that

00:55:54.980 --> 00:55:58.217
their english is better and more
easily understood as they teach courses

00:55:58.250 --> 00:56:03.916
for the university and also brought a
lot of international and still bring

00:56:03.949 --> 00:56:08.537
a lot of international students to the
university to study english and

00:56:08.570 --> 00:56:13.146
then hopefully we recruit a number of
those students to stay here. So

00:56:13.179 --> 00:56:16.467
that's been around, that's been around
for a long time and it's strong and

00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:22.276
it's growing. Mark Van Mark rents is
the director of the american english

00:56:22.309 --> 00:56:26.666
and cultural program. Um Mark Van
Horn, who I started to mention uh the

00:56:26.699 --> 00:56:31.907
other Mark, he's um leading a lot of
the technology issues with a S. U.

00:56:31.940 --> 00:56:38.396
Online. So a lot of the players are
still intact. Um

00:56:38.429 --> 00:56:44.706
University College was a new college
that was created when uh Michael Crow

00:56:44.739 --> 00:56:48.546
after a couple of years of Michael
Crowe being president. And university

00:56:48.579 --> 00:56:53.486
college now houses a lot of the
programs for part time students and the

00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:56.756
Bachelor of interdisciplinary studies
that Ron Alvarado was so

00:56:56.789 --> 00:57:03.447
instrumental in creating uh that's
part of university college. And um one

00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:11.356
of the things that uh huh that I
really fostered when I was Dean was

00:57:11.389 --> 00:57:14.947
trying to create some scholarships for
part time students because there's

00:57:14.980 --> 00:57:20.756
very little out there for part time
students if you're working and just

00:57:20.789 --> 00:57:25.206
managing to put food on the table and
take care of your kids. You don't

00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:31.847
really have um spendable income,
disposable income to put into the cost of

00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:36.477
student credit hours nowadays. And a
lot of people don't realize that

00:57:36.510 --> 00:57:40.177
working folks need scholarships just
the same as folks who are going to

00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:45.006
school full time. It used to be that a
lot of employers would pay to put

00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:49.227
their employees through school but
those days are long gone. Yeah not so

00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:54.086
much anymore. So we were able to
create several scholarships that are

00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:59.557
still going strong and so I'm very
pleased about that. I actually created

00:57:59.590 --> 00:58:04.706
one in honor of my parents and still
contribute to that. And they just

00:58:04.739 --> 00:58:10.537
awarded three more scholarships in
Australia. The feathered DeGraw uh

00:58:10.570 --> 00:58:15.756
scholarship for working adults. Yeah.
Um So interested viewers could make

00:58:15.789 --> 00:58:20.256
a contribution. Certainly could. They
certainly could. Yes, it's at the A

00:58:20.289 --> 00:58:26.137
. S. U. Foundation. No problem. Um Are
you ready to talk about distinctive

00:58:26.170 --> 00:58:32.186
, are you unique contributions of your
work and ask you

00:58:32.219 --> 00:58:37.537
humbly humbly. Of course. Well I think
the first thing is that we laid the

00:58:37.570 --> 00:58:43.486
foundation for a sus downtown campus
through the strong presence of A. S.

00:58:43.519 --> 00:58:48.467
U. Many many years in in the downtown
area and I'm very proud of that. I

00:58:48.500 --> 00:58:52.997
have an office there at university
center um In in university college

00:58:53.030 --> 00:58:58.657
actually Dean fred Corey is very kind
to me and I tried to help him a

00:58:58.690 --> 00:59:02.296
little bit with scholarships and he
the college actually university

00:59:02.329 --> 00:59:06.686
colleges housing scholarships for part
time students and making sure that

00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:09.637
they're available throughout the
university and it's a little easier to

00:59:09.670 --> 00:59:15.079
find and rescue downtown. It is a
little easier to find. As you. Yes.

00:59:15.420 --> 00:59:17.420
Absolutely true. Much easier to find it nowadays. Um Another contribution

00:59:21.210 --> 00:59:23.927
was starting A. S. You online and we
just talked about that, it's still

00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:28.456
going strong and doing well. I also
taught classes using A. S. U. Online

00:59:28.489 --> 00:59:32.376
so that was kind of fun too actually
use it and see what it was like as a

00:59:32.409 --> 00:59:38.526
faculty member. Um That was a good
experience. Another contribution is

00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:45.217
that we really um created awareness I
think in the university about the

00:59:45.250 --> 00:59:53.250
needs of working adults and um we then
found ways to have the university

00:59:54.630 --> 00:59:59.396
respond to their needs and certainly
the online degrees now and also the

00:59:59.429 --> 01:00:02.686
evening degrees that were created so
that students could get through and

01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:06.106
get through this bottleneck courses.
That's another really important

01:00:06.139 --> 01:00:11.736
contribution and I know you continue
to try to encourage part time

01:00:11.769 --> 01:00:17.686
students to complete their degrees
today. I do I do continue to do that as

01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:24.427
you know, just recently my dad passed
away in december and we were at a

01:00:24.460 --> 01:00:29.586
hospice facility, coronado house. The
nurse that took care of my, one of

01:00:29.619 --> 01:00:32.046
the nurses that took care of, my dad
was actually with him the night he

01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:37.206
died. It was a young man that I think
has a lot of potential and so I was

01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:45.239
trying to talk him into coming back to
a S. U. For the uh the the BSN too.

01:00:45.610 --> 01:00:49.486
Uh I'm losing the name of nurse
practitioner, the BSN to nurse

01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:53.847
practitioner and I also encouraged him
to apply for the scholarship. So I

01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:59.407
I live that, I mean that's just part
of what I do. Um So other

01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:04.396
contributions you'd like to highlight.
Um One other contribution that I

01:01:04.429 --> 01:01:10.986
think is important. We were always
looking for ways to have an easier

01:01:11.019 --> 01:01:16.787
entree into academia. Not easy in
terms of not meeting academic standards

01:01:16.820 --> 01:01:20.787
but easy in terms of not being so
scary. The university can be a scary

01:01:20.820 --> 01:01:26.767
place for people who haven't been to
university. And so we found ways to

01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:33.356
use certificate programs and
conditional admission um to be a way to help

01:01:33.389 --> 01:01:37.796
people feel comfortable to take some
courses not be so threatened and then

01:01:37.829 --> 01:01:42.066
decide that they want to go on and
take a degree. Another thing that I'm

01:01:42.099 --> 01:01:46.646
very proud of is that our role in
helping to launch a. S. U. East now

01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:51.197
polytechnic uh And also our work and
trying to really create more

01:01:51.230 --> 01:01:55.887
international partnerships and
relationships for s you. I'm always happy

01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:59.666
when I see in the paper that another
international partnership has been

01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:03.936
created. The College of Business has
been a big leader in that and had

01:02:03.969 --> 01:02:07.776
been for a number of years. So I I
always enjoy seeing that that that's

01:02:07.809 --> 01:02:11.217
still of interest. Well something you
mentioned earlier that probably

01:02:11.250 --> 01:02:15.967
bears repeating here is the
predictable degrees. Yes. Absolutely that

01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.876
really made a difference. It makes a
difference if people know that they

01:02:19.909 --> 01:02:24.456
can actually finish their degree. I
mentioned Margo Rivera Wilson who was

01:02:24.489 --> 01:02:29.657
my assistant for many years at DS and
then has had various roles in the

01:02:29.690 --> 01:02:32.827
university now working and it's still
there now working in President

01:02:32.860 --> 01:02:38.736
Crow's office. Uh She took one course
each semester and it took her

01:02:38.769 --> 01:02:44.006
forever and I was never prouder of
anyone else than than someone who could

01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:49.017
one course a semester for all of those
years and she made it through and

01:02:49.050 --> 01:02:54.566
and did a great job. I'm just so proud
of her. That's the best. And now

01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:57.717
she's working in the President's
office. What what could be better? That's

01:02:57.750 --> 01:03:02.546
a good story. It's a good story. Good
story. Um So are you ready to talk

01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:07.586
about you again I'm getting tired of
talking about me. But yes we can. How

01:03:07.619 --> 01:03:12.767
did your experiences at A. S. U.
Influence who you are today and how have

01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:16.267
you spent your time since you retired?

01:03:16.300 --> 01:03:19.967
Okay. Well

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:25.327
let's see. There's a book that you and
I have in common that we've read

01:03:25.360 --> 01:03:28.836
and talked about and it's called
composing A Life by mary Catherine

01:03:28.869 --> 01:03:36.166
Bateson. And I always think that's
such a good ah story about how lives

01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:41.967
and careers develop. Um What what
baits and talks about is how especially

01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.876
women's lives although can certainly
be men or women but in many cases

01:03:45.909 --> 01:03:52.046
women's lives are not a straight line
path. They take a lot of curves and

01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:59.097
loops and dips and um and certainly I
I always reflect on my own life when

01:03:59.130 --> 01:04:03.006
I think of that because it has been a
very circuitous path, A lot of it

01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:07.146
very dependent on what was happening
in politics or in positions here and

01:04:07.179 --> 01:04:13.657
there. And it it changes things, you
know, it changes things. Um

01:04:13.690 --> 01:04:18.436
She always talks about baits and talks
about a person's life developing

01:04:18.469 --> 01:04:23.927
more like a jazz improvisation as
opposed to a a straight line path. And I

01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:29.506
think that's a very good description.
My time at A. S. U. I was at A. S. U.

01:04:29.539 --> 01:04:35.896
For 19 years, so it really was a
substantial part of my career. 20 If you

01:04:35.929 --> 01:04:40.956
count the time it's a school in and
out here and there.

01:04:40.989 --> 01:04:46.736
But it was a big part of my career and
one of the things that I'm very

01:04:46.769 --> 01:04:50.896
grateful for is when Brent Brown hired
me to start the downtown Center. He

01:04:50.929 --> 01:04:57.186
also convinced me to pursue my own
education. And I I got my PhD through

01:04:57.219 --> 01:05:00.936
the School of Public Affairs at the
same time that I was working. So I got

01:05:00.969 --> 01:05:06.126
to experience being a working adult
attending school part time. So that

01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:09.767
was a very important lesson. And of
course I'm very happy to have that

01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:14.927
degree. It served me well. I had the
opportunity to teach for many years

01:05:14.960 --> 01:05:18.617
through the school of public affairs
and I continued to teach after I

01:05:18.650 --> 01:05:24.907
retired. So um that that's a very
important influence that a s you had on

01:05:24.940 --> 01:05:31.626
my life. Um The another thing that I
did after I retired is I was

01:05:31.659 --> 01:05:38.916
continuing to work for ladic or the
one he left in 2000 two as president,

01:05:38.949 --> 01:05:44.787
he created the center for the Future
of Arizona and it's housed in the

01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:49.557
downtown center. All roads lead to the
downtown center at the Mercado. Um

01:05:49.590 --> 01:05:54.697
, and I had the great pleasure to work
for him for a number of years. I

01:05:54.730 --> 01:06:00.206
actually did a a sabbatical with him
uh, and then continued after I

01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:03.836
retired to work for him for several
years and to work on some very

01:06:03.869 --> 01:06:09.947
interesting projects. So that's uh,
another thing I did when I retired, uh

01:06:09.980 --> 01:06:14.836
, I mentioned to you that I've been
active trying to recruit students as

01:06:14.869 --> 01:06:19.086
part time students to the university.
And and also in trying to make sure

01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:21.967
that we maintain the scholarships for
part time students. So I've been

01:06:22.000 --> 01:06:24.876
doing that

01:06:24.909 --> 01:06:31.916
the, when I was planning to retire, I
invited Don klein to tell him that

01:06:31.949 --> 01:06:38.367
he was the chair of our community
advisory dean's Council, our community

01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:42.637
advisory council. He had co chaired
that with Burton Bar for a number of

01:06:42.670 --> 01:06:46.256
years, but then Bert died

01:06:46.289 --> 01:06:51.856
several years, several years ago. And
so Don said to me, you know what, I

01:06:51.889 --> 01:06:55.557
have just the thing for you to do in
retirement. I'm starting a bank and

01:06:55.590 --> 01:07:00.767
I'm pulling people together to fund
this bank. And I'd like to invite you

01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:05.486
to join in on starting this bank and I
said a bank. Um, well, you know

01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:09.227
that sounded interesting to me because
it was so different from anything I

01:07:09.260 --> 01:07:13.086
had ever done. So I

01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:17.247
put in some money and I joined the
bank board and we started a bank. And

01:07:17.280 --> 01:07:23.546
um So that we started work on the bank
in 2004.

01:07:23.579 --> 01:07:29.356
The bank opened in 2007 and we're
gonna have our fifth anniversary this

01:07:29.389 --> 01:07:33.697
may. Did you get some kind of award?
We just got some recognition. I'm

01:07:33.730 --> 01:07:40.037
very pleased with that. Uh we were
just named number 23 of all of the

01:07:40.070 --> 01:07:46.126
banks across the nation that are under
500 million in in size. So that's

01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:52.727
quite a wonderful honor. In fact there
was our bank. Republic Bank Az is

01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:58.247
the only bank in Arizona in the top
100 of those banks. So I'm pretty

01:07:58.280 --> 01:08:01.626
pleased about that. So that was an
interesting learning experience and

01:08:01.659 --> 01:08:09.659
I've been doing that since I retired.
Um Another activity that that a s

01:08:09.949 --> 01:08:15.416
you actually pointed me to and that
I've been doing since I retired is

01:08:15.449 --> 01:08:19.916
that I'm president of the Monsignor
Edward J. Royal Fund and Monsignor

01:08:19.949 --> 01:08:25.137
Rile was known to many of us. He was
the lobbyist for the catholic church

01:08:25.170 --> 01:08:31.347
during much of the time that I was
both that D. S. And and at A. S. U. He

01:08:31.380 --> 01:08:37.567
was very helpful to me at A. S. U. He
would always come in and give a

01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:44.496
lecture on ethics to the classes that
I taught. Um he was a very dear man

01:08:44.529 --> 01:08:49.116
, very committed to social justice. So
when he died several years ago we

01:08:49.149 --> 01:08:57.149
created a fund in his name. And we are
um trying to do everything we can

01:08:58.670 --> 01:09:03.506
to bring the discussion of social
justice again to the legislature. It's

01:09:03.539 --> 01:09:08.446
been a tough slog. There have been a
lot of other pressures on people's

01:09:08.479 --> 01:09:13.536
plates in terms of the budget. So we
are we are working hard with that

01:09:13.569 --> 01:09:17.967
again. We've created a scholarship
fund there and are are having some

01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:22.267
folks trained to come back and be
advocates here in Arizona. And we also

01:09:22.300 --> 01:09:28.036
created a seminar series for current
faith leaders to teach them about

01:09:28.069 --> 01:09:34.336
public policy issues. So again a
consistent theme from my time at A. S. U.

01:09:34.369 --> 01:09:39.996
And then finally the most important
thing that I did since I retired was

01:09:40.029 --> 01:09:44.817
take care of my father And I'm who
took care of well he took care of me

01:09:44.850 --> 01:09:49.746
but it was my job to take, he did take
care of me, but it was my job to

01:09:49.779 --> 01:09:53.177
try to take care of him. And that's
one of the reasons I did retire in in

01:09:53.210 --> 01:10:01.210
2005 because he moved to Arizona at
the time he was 90, I want to say 93

01:10:01.550 --> 01:10:03.727
and

01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:09.696
He died just 20 days short of his
100th birthday. So I don't regret a

01:10:09.729 --> 01:10:14.296
single day of taking care of him and
and him taking care of me. I couldn't

01:10:14.329 --> 01:10:19.656
keep up with either one of them. He
kept me very busy. He did keep me very

01:10:19.689 --> 01:10:24.987
busy and and that was quite an honor.
We would we would go out to dinner

01:10:25.020 --> 01:10:29.416
sometimes and then I'd say, okay, well
I'm gonna go home now. And they

01:10:29.449 --> 01:10:33.967
said well we're going to the casino.
He loved to go to the casino, he

01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:38.756
loved to go to the casino, okay, not
me, I'm out of here. He went down on

01:10:38.789 --> 01:10:44.916
his own at least once a week. I took
the bus down and then I'd take him

01:10:44.949 --> 01:10:51.326
many other days, many hours in the
casino with him.

01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:55.267
That in itself was an education. It
was an educational experience, but I

01:10:55.300 --> 01:10:59.126
don't think, I guess you really did
anything to help me get ready for that

01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:04.687
one. So anything else that you'd like
to share with? Anyone who may be

01:11:04.720 --> 01:11:09.416
reviewing this in the future? Well,
you know, I guess the most important

01:11:09.449 --> 01:11:12.637
thing that I've learned throughout my
career is that it really matters

01:11:12.670 --> 01:11:18.527
who's in what position people do
matter. And individual people make a big

01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:22.166
difference in the world. And I guess
that's the most important thing. It's

01:11:22.199 --> 01:11:26.227
all about connections. It's all about
connections.

01:11:26.260 --> 01:11:31.017
Well, thank you. Thank you. It was
great to hear the story, most of which

01:11:31.050 --> 01:11:36.810
I knew and some of which was moved to
leave. Thank you.Yeah