WEBVTT 00:00:06.139 --> 00:00:08.139 this interview is part of Arizona State University retirees association, 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:18.640 ongoing video history project. This is May 17 2009. 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:25.806 It's been recorded the S. U. Memorial Union by Dave sexy and john McIntosh 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:32.696 interview as I ken holland and myself Matthew Betts and we're joined by 00:00:32.729 --> 00:00:39.107 linda Vance coy who is chairperson of the project overall 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:45.487 start with give me your full name and tell us when you were as you and 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.006 what was your position? 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:52.137 I said, give it my full name, sounds like it was stopped by kind of 00:00:52.170 --> 00:00:55.906 control persons. 00:00:55.939 --> 00:01:00.476 My full name is paige Elliott Mulholland 00:01:00.509 --> 00:01:08.007 most of the time and I came to Arizona State University 1978. 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:14.076 My position was that time provost. I think that that was a new position 00:01:14.109 --> 00:01:18.807 because I replaced Carl downing felt who had been vice president for 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:24.096 academic affairs when he returned the administration made a decision to 00:01:24.129 --> 00:01:29.477 recruit under a promo time. Nobody knew what that meant, pretty much 00:01:29.510 --> 00:01:35.947 including me, but it had responsibility for all of programs. The 00:01:35.980 --> 00:01:43.980 university across the university campus, 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:52.406 where were you born when we were born? Where were you raised 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:58.236 December 10, 1934. But if you can't subtract makes me about six months 00:01:58.269 --> 00:02:01.807 away from being 75. 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:06.906 I just had my first great grandchild here in phoenix 00:02:06.939 --> 00:02:10.446 requirement to be having a great grandchild is only that you'd be very 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:18.479 very, I am mhm I went to your birthday Arkansas For Bachelor degree in 00:02:19.060 --> 00:02:26.416 marketing in 1956. Sure Between 18 and 24 months in the military when I 00:02:26.449 --> 00:02:31.707 went on active duty. You know, there were no activities abroad and the 00:02:31.740 --> 00:02:36.057 services were actually interested in getting rid of officers rather than 00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:41.156 encouraging new neurons. Army farming and they were, you know, they're 00:02:41.189 --> 00:02:45.307 giving you a choice of six months, 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:50.307 six months active duty and some extra time 00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:57.297 being the preservers as a result or you know, staying in for go to your 00:02:57.330 --> 00:03:01.846 term. I chose the two year term and then before it was over they came 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:07.677 around with an opportunity to shorten it for some Reserve time and I took 00:03:07.710 --> 00:03:12.606 advantage of that. So I served a total of about 18. And what base was that 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:20.639 started out for bliss in there in the field artillery. But but 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:25.656 basic officer course was in the corporal missile missile at that time only 00:03:25.689 --> 00:03:31.506 services service. That's what we were we were capable of using. 00:03:31.539 --> 00:03:39.156 And then I was transferred from there to Oklahoma and Lord. Just a couple 00:03:39.189 --> 00:03:43.207 of three months before I got 00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:47.196 I left the military and working the family business for a couple of years. 00:03:47.229 --> 00:03:51.726 Family business was wholesale furniture which was a bad business at the 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:57.707 time. I was emerging from the military. It was disappearing and it's no, 00:03:57.740 --> 00:04:03.307 there's no such thing as wholesale furniture. It's all done directly 00:04:03.340 --> 00:04:10.906 with the factory today and I didn't enjoy the virtual visitors. It was 00:04:10.939 --> 00:04:14.756 clearly not going anywhere. two of the family history stores was 00:04:14.789 --> 00:04:21.406 transferring retail surely wanted to retail. So what I did was correct. 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:25.476 Time to go back to the University of Arkansas and get a Master's History, 00:04:25.509 --> 00:04:28.406 which I did in 19 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:33.406 mhm. Something back in there around 1962. 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:40.806 Um and then went to University of texas for a PhD Yeah. Having completed, 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:46.707 of course we're there, came back to the University of Arkansas on the back 00:04:46.740 --> 00:04:49.507 60 30 00:04:49.540 --> 00:04:54.267 Left there for a year to work on the Lyndon Johnson Work History Project 00:04:54.300 --> 00:05:01.877 96. Yeah, the uh johnson library, which we had a board, I decided to do a 00:05:01.910 --> 00:05:09.377 major world history project. And I heard, mm hmm. Ex chairman of the 00:05:09.410 --> 00:05:16.279 history department at the University of texas. And for full time interview. 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:19.139 Well, I looked out the executive office building next door to the White 00:05:20.829 --> 00:05:23.306 House, 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:29.596 tried to enter as many as possible of the people who were important to 00:05:29.629 --> 00:05:35.517 Lyndon johnson at any stage in his career, who were still fighting my own 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:40.587 job was foreign policy Area of interest for my dissertation, I've been 00:05:40.620 --> 00:05:46.017 teaching so I tended to get assigned to all the people whose knowledge of 00:05:46.050 --> 00:05:49.746 johnson whose contact with johnson was in the foreign policy. We had 00:05:49.779 --> 00:05:52.707 another person who's 00:05:52.740 --> 00:05:57.556 main interest was military. 00:05:57.589 --> 00:06:01.007 His main interest was 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:08.207 political thanks. The one who was interested in business activities 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:14.676 which interchange and over those guidelines. But basically mistake in the 00:06:14.709 --> 00:06:22.709 year that I was off on leave. I think I interviewed About 120 125 people. 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:25.906 And 00:06:25.939 --> 00:06:32.277 yeah, during the first two or 3 years I was in Kansas State. I probably 00:06:32.310 --> 00:06:40.310 did another 25. So you're on sabbatical from Oklahoma. 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:45.207 Was Bill Moyer involved in any way 00:06:45.240 --> 00:06:52.697 no longer in the office that he was no longer director information workers 00:06:52.730 --> 00:06:59.327 title was but he was he was still in town and group did interview Bill 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:03.306 Moyers but I didn't, 00:07:03.339 --> 00:07:08.806 I lengthy correspondence, lengthy interviews with 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:11.606 Secretary of State 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:17.217 several of his deputy who was that secretary of state. Anymore names that 00:07:17.250 --> 00:07:21.906 I've known so well and I can't tell you, 00:07:21.939 --> 00:07:26.306 Dean Rusk we need to run 00:07:26.339 --> 00:07:31.406 and it's terrible you're not gonna like it. McNamara was in there, 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:35.996 Maghaberry was one of two important people. Don't talk to us back to 00:07:36.029 --> 00:07:42.887 America in the process I think sorting out where he was facebook later 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:46.616 published but he would not under any circumstances talk. That's right. And 00:07:46.649 --> 00:07:50.377 the other one was J William Fulbright. I'm ashamed to say Senator from 00:07:50.410 --> 00:07:55.056 reconcile even the fact that he was going to be interviewed by a 00:07:55.089 --> 00:08:03.089 dependable or Kansas did not soften his opposition to talking with you. 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:08.046 You know, first I talked to who was interested in the project for 20 years 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:15.017 or more shortly thereafter took a job at Kansas State University as 00:08:15.050 --> 00:08:20.246 Associate Dean of Arts and Sciences, staying there for three years and 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:25.589 moved to the University of Oklahoma where I was Dean of Arts and Science. 00:08:26.339 --> 00:08:28.339 Very large college. During the direct reports. 00:08:31.540 --> 00:08:37.896 During that time, stayed there five years and was selected after a 00:08:37.929 --> 00:08:44.106 national search as provost today is you and you showed up on this campus 00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:49.677 never having been in the states other than that moving to a higher 00:08:49.710 --> 00:08:53.567 position. What cause you to come to the issue or what do you find 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:57.986 attractive in before you made this, you made your decision? Well, you know 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:00.707 , you just 00:09:00.740 --> 00:09:04.506 like any career you're in, there are there are steps along the way that 00:09:04.539 --> 00:09:12.207 our recognize that stepped up. I, I have been associating. I have indeed 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:18.207 now here was a possibility that I might be the next step up from that. 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:23.986 And the job was open by that time they were recruiting nationally for all 00:09:24.019 --> 00:09:30.876 of them going through the proper process is from no bias get hurt and I 00:09:30.909 --> 00:09:35.217 interviewed him. The president called several days later and offered me a 00:09:35.250 --> 00:09:43.250 job. Vice president President john 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:55.606 while you were here. 00:09:55.639 --> 00:10:02.337 As you think back, is there any particular incidents that stick out in 00:10:02.370 --> 00:10:10.370 your mind as significant whether incidents in any university all the time 00:10:10.539 --> 00:10:17.106 and you evaluate those incidents from your own advantage point? I guess. 00:10:17.139 --> 00:10:20.736 I don't think there's any average, anything that was very exciting. The 00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:25.907 one that got the most public interest was the firing of frank kush 00:10:25.940 --> 00:10:33.146 something been here forever recall. Put coach kush it was a great mother 00:10:33.179 --> 00:10:39.807 figure at Arizona state game in Washington which I happened to attend 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.917 accidentally. I didn't go the team to see all the road games. But for some 00:10:43.950 --> 00:10:49.226 reason we had gone to the he was accused of physically striking one of the 00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:55.606 players. Obviously we came with big public 00:10:55.639 --> 00:11:03.639 demanded action and uh john swallow who's president ultimately did yeah 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:08.006 release coach kush 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:13.057 and paid a great price for. I found a lot of people I think around here do 00:11:13.090 --> 00:11:19.496 not think highly of john by that time. But I think he was he was a man of 00:11:19.529 --> 00:11:25.457 principle. I think he had to do what he did the testimony of what 00:11:25.490 --> 00:11:28.707 athletics does sometimes 00:11:28.740 --> 00:11:35.587 two institutions that had he done the right thing. He was john was smart 00:11:35.620 --> 00:11:40.256 enough to know that he couldn't be a successful president because there 00:11:40.289 --> 00:11:45.207 were too many areas of the community that we're never going to forgive him 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:50.106 from having them responsible for firing frank kush. But he didn't need 00:11:50.139 --> 00:11:55.876 sugar. The same kind of episode occurred in Ohio, about that time. Some of 00:11:55.909 --> 00:11:59.707 you may be called. 00:11:59.740 --> 00:12:07.606 But a lot of them presents we replaced it. No. 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:13.657 What about the birthing process for a S. U. West you were key. And yeah 00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:16.636 that's my that's on my list of things I wanted to talk about, whether you 00:12:16.669 --> 00:12:19.807 asked me about it. 00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:23.807 That's an example of a good interview person. Besides what he's gonna say. 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:29.606 And you just become superfluous. Oh 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:34.506 mm hmm when I got here 00:12:34.539 --> 00:12:41.087 the West Valley but it was represented in the legislature but there's some 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:49.120 very strong people what they wanted was campus in phoenix. 00:12:49.340 --> 00:12:55.746 The university had never really thought of itself in terms of what it 00:12:55.779 --> 00:13:02.246 meant to be in phoenix. When I got here, fresh from the outside world, it 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:07.096 seemed to me that the biggest findings that Arizona state had in 00:13:07.129 --> 00:13:12.707 competition with the other two institutions of the state or within 00:13:12.740 --> 00:13:16.807 competition competition of other institutions in the broader there it is, 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:24.467 was our location in a city that was the largest population concentration 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:28.006 anywhere in the southwest 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:33.587 where there was enormous economic activity. That, 00:13:33.620 --> 00:13:40.096 and was it one of the things that we most, we're being criticized for not 00:13:40.129 --> 00:13:47.026 trying to serve people in the west. Mhm I spent enormous amount of time, 00:13:47.059 --> 00:13:55.059 the first couple two in getting the first approval of this campus. Okay, 00:13:55.940 --> 00:14:00.917 move towards the creation of the West campus and then getting some money 00:14:00.950 --> 00:14:08.950 for it from the Legislature and planning for him in terms of fiscal plan. 00:14:10.139 --> 00:14:16.506 The university owns some land out there just south of Thunderbird. 00:14:16.539 --> 00:14:24.317 And so it's not a problem with where you put it, but we had to go through 00:14:24.350 --> 00:14:29.707 the planning process of hiring an institutional platter 00:14:29.740 --> 00:14:33.616 Washington who did the work and do a spectacularly good job. They built us 00:14:33.649 --> 00:14:37.297 a model that I could take around and put on the table and let the people 00:14:37.330 --> 00:14:41.736 over there see what we were proposing to do. And for. And one of the few 00:14:41.769 --> 00:14:47.077 instances that I'm aware of. We actually university actually built the 00:14:47.110 --> 00:14:51.866 west campus to that plan. They usually find a reason not to do it or not 00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:55.837 to be able to afford it or somebody doesn't like it or whatever. This time 00:14:55.870 --> 00:15:01.506 they built it like that and it's a very nice, difficult plan. We had a 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:07.907 american council education fellow here at that time. The deal fell through. 00:15:07.940 --> 00:15:15.940 Yeah, she did the statistical work to convince the regions that there was 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:25.457 demand for educational services in that area that could be satisfied a 00:15:25.490 --> 00:15:32.476 certain level of support. And they were will it do that? We we we started 00:15:32.509 --> 00:15:37.577 teaching classes and some great schools that were invented for several 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:43.736 years. We had a tiny little library and one of the buildings and Helen 00:15:43.769 --> 00:15:50.016 gave her this campus went over to take over the librarian's job became one 00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:55.707 of the driving organizational forces in the west campus. 00:15:55.740 --> 00:16:01.526 I just want, I don't know much about it today, what I do know, I guess I'm 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:09.559 moving disappointed. Mhm. Main campus never did like the other. Right. And 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.907 they did everything they could to keep it from being an independent entity. 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:21.096 They Okay, triumphant. It's not an independent entity. 00:16:21.129 --> 00:16:24.707 They didn't know how to be 00:16:24.740 --> 00:16:31.896 separately accredited for example. Um And the administration was was 00:16:31.929 --> 00:16:38.606 clearly under the wing of capital. 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.006 So 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.346 I had hoped that West could be would be more than that, but the 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:49.486 opportunity for it downtown and Williams Air force Base and all over the 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.606 place with these 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:58.187 subsidiary campuses and I assume that it works pretty well. So a couple of 00:16:58.220 --> 00:17:00.207 grips 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:05.107 where we thought we were designing it for a little more than it turned out 00:17:05.140 --> 00:17:11.976 to be dale felt her left, she was the first scene, but she left president 00:17:12.009 --> 00:17:16.907 of central Washington, right, 00:17:16.940 --> 00:17:21.336 what you need and then subsequently back to Houston where she had come 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:25.006 here from. 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:29.447 Thank you. First Vice president of the system Houston University system, 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:34.980 which was probably a bigger job than her presidency of central Washington. 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.240 Let me Mhm. Change direction just a little bit. You've always said that 00:17:41.930 --> 00:17:47.796 you're not a technologist. However, it was under your regime that the 00:17:47.829 --> 00:17:55.127 concept of in servers, information resources management came about and we 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.986 were one of the first campuses in the country to go that way with 00:17:59.019 --> 00:18:06.117 consolidating all the information resources under one umbrella, what do 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:11.627 you call recall about that? But when I don't know anything about it, try 00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:17.996 to find somebody who does and I found you actually, I found you the person 00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:26.029 you succeeded first and then, but we talked about what such a concept 00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:32.826 involved and what it meant. Criminal court elephants. Mhm. Then you went 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:37.847 about and did when I write with the right state and I want to do the same 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.207 thing. How are you 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:46.036 to come down? And he did we do and we did it again, we do go back a long 00:18:46.069 --> 00:18:53.306 way. Uh but I think that's an important observation. 00:18:53.339 --> 00:19:00.476 It's amazing how short a distance ago it was when there was almost no use 00:19:00.509 --> 00:19:07.377 the table. I mean I can remember here when the a faculty member who used 00:19:07.410 --> 00:19:13.086 computers in the classroom, it was revolutionary the object of 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:18.006 conversation and discussion around the campus. Nobody 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:25.637 sounds good and we were the same way with, with distance learning, tfs, 00:19:25.670 --> 00:19:32.566 TFS, I couldn't remember the dude instructional television services we we 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:39.266 were able through that system which was a reel early day communications 00:19:39.299 --> 00:19:45.357 device to offer courses around the valley to have any location. Remember, 00:19:45.390 --> 00:19:50.836 I don't half dozen, half dozen locations, but it was another step along 00:19:50.869 --> 00:19:57.907 the way to what we can do today, we were just a portion ahead of time. 00:19:57.940 --> 00:20:04.707 It was largely to do with your skills. Yeah, that's 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:10.256 when I came here that the College of Liberal Works had everything from 00:20:10.289 --> 00:20:15.806 rags to riches, physical education, social work, 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.046 Criminal justice, that doesn't look like the profile of colleges, liberal 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.766 arts and sciences. I had suffered some from that and at Oklahoma before I 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:33.107 came here. And so I was somewhat sympathy, aware of the problems. 00:20:33.140 --> 00:20:37.607 So we created the College of liberal arts and moved out of liberal 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:42.907 constituted because of public programs out of remarks 00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:46.417 journalism, which subsequently became the contact school has been very 00:20:46.450 --> 00:20:48.707 successful, 00:20:48.740 --> 00:20:55.496 well regarded university journalism department from universities 00:20:55.529 --> 00:21:01.397 with Criminal justice, with the social world programs that were not 00:21:01.430 --> 00:21:06.496 traditional liberal arts and concentrated them, you know, single college 00:21:06.529 --> 00:21:10.776 under a dean. Mchenry was the first dean after a natural search. He had 00:21:10.809 --> 00:21:14.207 been chairman of public administration which was another one that we put 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:22.240 there. And as I look at the graduation, wait what yep. 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:27.016 College of public programs have become a great success. It has now I don't 00:21:27.049 --> 00:21:30.986 , I didn't count them up. It looked to me like it had 8-10 different 00:21:31.019 --> 00:21:36.407 programs and departments in it all of its share 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:43.677 a interest in public service, professionalizing public service by training 00:21:43.710 --> 00:21:48.117 people to do the jobs that need to be done in areas like journalism and 00:21:48.150 --> 00:21:50.736 public administration, 00:21:50.769 --> 00:21:56.887 physical education and recreation and those kinds of programs. So I feel 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:04.920 like that that initiative has turned out to be successful. 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:17.566 Other notable achievements you want to talk about, Oh I've got a lot of uh 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:25.599 huh I don't claim full paternity for any of this. Unfortunately, really 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:32.207 good people working in the office of the programs 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:38.437 we did some things that I think have turned out to be but profitable for 00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:42.786 the institution, not always popular at the time. One of them was just the 00:22:42.819 --> 00:22:50.167 concept that we promote ourselves as the university in phoenix and we 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:56.177 encourage our people to use their academic skills to compute it too pigs 00:22:56.210 --> 00:23:03.246 and its continued growth prosperity and two spoons who lived in things and 00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:07.006 wanted to attend the university 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:13.357 later on I worked that principle right. State became part of natural 00:23:13.390 --> 00:23:20.806 movement join institutions of this country. Yeah, she was a little big two 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:28.839 please. Um, but our focus on serving local companies like intel. Mhm. 00:23:31.539 --> 00:23:38.427 Lead to a, an emphasis on the engineering that the dean of time Rolling 00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:44.917 Hayden call it engineering excellence. Mm hmm. Today, the College of 00:23:44.950 --> 00:23:50.207 Engineering and the issue is widely admired as being one 50 years old, 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.516 best engineering school in the country. You could not have said that about 00:23:53.549 --> 00:23:59.506 it, get back to you, 00:23:59.539 --> 00:24:07.539 but because Sully Sullenberger. Okay. Other local levers tell him he was 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:17.417 director of Salt River Project. Jack Jack Fisher, Jack Pfister. That that 00:24:17.450 --> 00:24:21.816 group of business people took seriously the idea that we were trying to 00:24:21.849 --> 00:24:28.117 serve the local interests are actually research programs. They were 00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:32.887 responsible for additional funding and help with the legislature that led 00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:39.407 to the expansion of and the improvement of the College of Engineering. And 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:43.907 that's a success story. 00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:47.076 What what problems did you encounter either financially or 00:24:47.109 --> 00:24:51.617 administratively that you'd like to talk about or not? Promise problems, 00:24:51.650 --> 00:24:54.707 problems, 00:24:54.740 --> 00:24:58.796 I don't think. I don't know that they're really it at the, at the time, 00:24:58.829 --> 00:25:02.407 there were terrible problems looking back 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:06.306 so bad. We, we needed 00:25:06.339 --> 00:25:09.806 two 00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:17.046 yet. And understanding from our local legislative delegations, oh, why it 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:24.177 was important to support Arizona State University and what we needed that 00:25:24.210 --> 00:25:29.857 we didn't have in order to support us and that what that means is personal 00:25:29.890 --> 00:25:37.407 lobby. I didn't do much of when I was the first year, 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:43.306 but it is a, I did more and more of it along with a very talented young 00:25:43.339 --> 00:25:49.236 man named Brett Brown, you may remember he died past 12 months. Brown 00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:55.336 Brown knew everybody in the legislation and he was able to get the end to 00:25:55.369 --> 00:26:00.107 see whatever legislator it was and there were some very powerful ones from 00:26:00.140 --> 00:26:02.707 furniture 00:26:02.740 --> 00:26:07.207 and we began to make some progress 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:12.006 when our friends down Tucson didn't like that a lot. 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:18.226 Thanks. Border regions was made up of Do you think graduates with one 00:26:18.259 --> 00:26:21.207 exception 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:23.506 already? 00:26:23.539 --> 00:26:31.539 Camera camera what alone? American county 00:26:32.619 --> 00:26:34.806 only? 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.607 Mhm. And we began to make some progress. 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:46.640 The state office office? What? I'm not sure that's the right word 00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:53.107 began to say ease off. 00:26:53.140 --> 00:27:00.637 So positions that are contrary to one another. So we did so pretty much 00:27:00.670 --> 00:27:07.707 told to do so yeah, subject, 00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:10.427 you know, it never was the chancellor's office. It always wanted to be, 00:27:10.460 --> 00:27:13.607 but it never got the title. 00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:18.506 That office is a problem everywhere because 00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:22.707 none of the universities are happy with their place in the pecking order. 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:28.066 It's a good, they think they ought to be hi and so they want the 00:27:28.099 --> 00:27:32.107 chancellor's office to take care of them 00:27:32.140 --> 00:27:37.907 totally. 00:27:37.940 --> 00:27:44.207 With some exceptions, I think usually hard. But yeah, their trade offs in 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:51.387 the legislature never unanimous popular, so you don't burn up some capital 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:54.806 aji proper. 00:27:54.839 --> 00:28:02.476 How would you compare the governance? Yeah. Arizona versus Ohio as far as 00:28:02.509 --> 00:28:09.586 higher education in your own experience, there's so much difference it's 00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:12.407 hard to say 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:15.907 Ohio has 12 graduates 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:18.107 institutions. 00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:25.407 There's only really to Northern is getting more important graduate level 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.647 But Ohio's got 12 million people, there's not going to have that many. So 00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:33.607 you can argue that that's not too many. 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:41.036 And the pecking order in Ohio is so well established that is that it's not 00:28:41.069 --> 00:28:44.667 much of a contingent, there's Ohio State and Cincinnati and then there's 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:50.607 everybody else and everybody else fighting with each other. So but nobody 00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:55.387 thinks that it's going to become Ohio State or Cincinnati. And so there's 00:28:55.420 --> 00:29:02.207 not a great public concerned with the head um here, you know, 00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:07.627 traditionally you might have been the notable institution and you have 00:29:07.660 --> 00:29:13.566 never challenged it before and what we were trying to do with not that we 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:19.427 didn't want to tear it down but we wanted to be recognized that is for 00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:22.506 true academic 00:29:22.539 --> 00:29:28.107 merit that we had in our faculty and students, 00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:32.217 there were a lot of people dedicated to the proposition that that 00:29:32.250 --> 00:29:37.607 shouldn't happen. 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:43.947 Sure when you came here there were L. P. C. S we didn't have a desktop. I 00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:50.707 think they're probably still using four trend cards for processing data 00:29:50.740 --> 00:29:57.336 and registration. Was these computer cards. Think about how quickly that 00:29:57.369 --> 00:29:59.407 changed. 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:06.877 It's remarkable that just as far back as time I was here it was so can be 00:30:06.910 --> 00:30:14.296 described as primitive but today is that and instruction revolutionary 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:21.707 revolutionized as well. I don't know whether you have any faculty members 00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:29.506 don't use some kind of technology in the classroom. 00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:33.607 So when I, when I quit teaching, 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:40.107 please move Of teaching was to stand up and deliver a 50 minute collection. 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:46.917 Mm hmm. Students sat there with blue books. They wrote down notes about 00:30:46.950 --> 00:30:52.076 what you said. Mhm. They went off a little text. You had one other talent 00:30:52.109 --> 00:30:59.036 that I used to at least say the people that you had and that it was in the 00:30:59.069 --> 00:31:04.197 financial area. I used to say Page Mahal is the only one I knew of that. 00:31:04.230 --> 00:31:09.226 What you're walking around with the entire budget is hit anyway. What you 00:31:09.259 --> 00:31:14.207 can remember about budget detail uses his full smallest. 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:22.240 No, no, I was, I was fortunate. Allen carol freak 00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:27.207 control me. She said, where did you 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:34.266 to be the budget? Mm hmm. But I don't know that that was a talent greatly 00:31:34.299 --> 00:31:39.236 useful. Well, it was because I can remember you would spend vacancy 00:31:39.269 --> 00:31:43.467 credits three times over and we would say, how are you going to fund that 00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:46.786 ? I got vacancy credits and a month later. How are you gonna find that 00:31:46.819 --> 00:31:52.066 basically credits and nobody could figure out how work with these. 00:31:52.099 --> 00:31:58.347 That's why you don't start out as president. You start out the honest 00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:01.306 thank you. 00:32:01.339 --> 00:32:09.339 Even though you professor and I'd be technology competent. You still have 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:18.976 a vision and you put money into programs. I can remember my staff being 00:32:19.009 --> 00:32:23.847 here at the time when the budget was tough and they thought it was 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:28.016 fruitless to develop a budget because we weren't going to get anything in 00:32:28.049 --> 00:32:33.066 there. I promised them that it would pay off. And I can remember more than 00:32:33.099 --> 00:32:39.806 once we get to the end of the fiscal year and you would call me up and say 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:46.127 we've got this these funds, we got to spend them Inside of 15 days. And I 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:50.756 would call up people and I would say the money trucks here go and we would 00:32:50.789 --> 00:32:55.607 spend the money and you're the one who could spend it. That's right. We 00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:00.857 had it lined up and it was his counsel though that even though he didn't 00:33:00.890 --> 00:33:07.137 appreciate the specifics, he saw the value and uh I was willing to put in 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:10.457 , well, you're trying to spend money like that on things that have long 00:33:10.490 --> 00:33:15.036 term value to the institution rather than things that gratify short term 00:33:15.069 --> 00:33:19.776 interest. And clearly we were at the stage of technological development. 00:33:19.809 --> 00:33:25.927 Remember you had the woman that I admired, admired and 00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:33.960 joint article about all of this. And I think that's my last publication. 00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:39.427 Uh so, you know, one of the things that a good administrator do is 00:33:39.460 --> 00:33:44.607 sequesters and funds when they're related to pay for things that are 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:49.986 important make it through the budget process for a long time, a lot of the 00:33:50.019 --> 00:33:58.019 things that we call technology didn't write very high. Mhm priorities. 00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.440 Overall university budget process. 00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:10.247 Now they do barely. He was taking advantage of the big time and their year 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:18.280 long years ago, folks, 00:34:23.340 --> 00:34:31.340 do you have one Best Memory of Your Year? Is It Is You? My goodness. 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:40.066 I had a very pleasant time this community and this institution. Mhm. My 00:34:40.099 --> 00:34:45.166 most pleasant memories probably are sitting in the room here. I had a 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:50.217 wonderful staff. three of 3 out of four from here. Sharon Sandler was the 00:34:50.250 --> 00:34:55.307 4th 1 and I'm glad to hear that she is still around 00:34:55.340 --> 00:35:03.006 and then the spouses of the same morning jenny. So I think my pleasure 00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:09.907 here was more personal media that has been in other places 00:35:09.940 --> 00:35:14.606 in terms of what, what makes you happy 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:19.407 and that's not a bad thing. 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:25.006 Lonnie Ostrom said, hello. Uh, 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.896 do you have any thoughts on the issue Foundation? What was the status of 00:35:29.929 --> 00:35:35.006 that? Mm hmm. 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:40.546 I'm not sure I know enough to be to say anything intelligent. We always 00:35:40.579 --> 00:35:48.579 needed more money. The issue was not taking in big dollars in those years. 00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:53.706 Mhm. It's hard to say that's, 00:35:53.739 --> 00:35:57.697 you know, the fault of the Foundation or or any individual. It certainly 00:35:57.730 --> 00:36:04.526 wasn't at fault on the industry. Thank you. But there was no tradition in 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:11.517 our support base of people giving big gifts to the institution and they 00:36:11.550 --> 00:36:16.407 had to establish that culture. I think they've done it. Certainly. You 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:22.197 read the names of all the colleges seems to 00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:29.807 enticed sizable grants, Private grants resulted in Beijing. Okay. But that 00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:37.840 was not the development area doing that at the time. We were very, very, 00:36:38.829 --> 00:36:41.296 no, 00:36:41.329 --> 00:36:45.597 they ran the alumni association and some things like that. That helped. 00:36:45.630 --> 00:36:53.630 Sure they took care of it. I was not currently involved. 00:36:54.730 --> 00:36:57.577 I don't know. I guess I'd be interested to know how you, I think the 00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:02.217 university is how dramatically has changed. Oh, I don't know how to 00:37:02.250 --> 00:37:07.146 explain that. I have dragooned, ken and picking me up at my son's house 00:37:07.179 --> 00:37:12.197 and bring me principally because I'd be afraid to try to drive 00:37:12.230 --> 00:37:16.997 because nothing is where it belongs. There's things, there's things all 00:37:17.030 --> 00:37:22.697 over the place that I don't know what are, I don't know how to get one 00:37:22.730 --> 00:37:29.097 seriously. I could probably have problems coming finding this building, 00:37:29.130 --> 00:37:33.086 getting a car parked and so on. Unfortunately. Canada lives in the south 00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:37.497 part of town airport, 00:37:37.530 --> 00:37:39.697 done 00:37:39.730 --> 00:37:43.486 for the year style. 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:50.097 How are you conduct the affairs of the institution? Would you say you were 00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:54.097 formal informal? 00:37:54.130 --> 00:37:57.396 Where's your comfort level? 00:37:57.429 --> 00:38:05.186 Where would you say it was? 00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:08.287 You know how to be protected? 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.186 No insurgent purpose. 00:38:11.219 --> 00:38:15.066 Well, this may get edited out, but I can remember when I was working for 00:38:15.099 --> 00:38:21.486 you, I would walk into your office and if your tie was off, I would walk 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:26.907 to the window and see that the president's car wasn't there. And so 00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:33.776 whenever the president left the premises, you dressed down 00:38:33.809 --> 00:38:38.617 unconscious. I don't remember doing that. I called you on a couple of 00:38:38.650 --> 00:38:46.650 times. Well, okay. I will say I'm happy to be a crusade that a lot of 00:38:47.420 --> 00:38:55.420 place for that, Whether it's sorry or people in Oklahoma periodically. And 00:38:56.230 --> 00:39:04.230 if you even back as far as Kansas state, oh, continue to be friends, 00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:11.586 enjoy the procedure periodically. Keep up with. 00:39:11.619 --> 00:39:18.586 That's a source of pride. I guess guilty of that. 00:39:18.619 --> 00:39:22.486 You're looking at it. I'm gonna mention some names that were here when you 00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:27.916 were robert stout 00:39:27.949 --> 00:39:33.287 education and left here. 00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:37.887 Can somebody tell me where he went? Because I ran into him where he went. 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:44.106 But I can't think of who. I can't remember where that was. 00:39:44.139 --> 00:39:48.387 University of Nebraska at Omaha. Maybe 00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:52.816 anybody that doesn't ring a bell with anybody. Okay. I'm sorry. But, and I 00:39:52.849 --> 00:39:57.086 were here at the same time, 00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:04.557 liberal arts and science ghetto peter wagon. Why? He was a very low key 00:40:04.590 --> 00:40:12.590 dean. Mm hmm. Two department chairs, um, frequently I think he was 00:40:13.699 --> 00:40:21.699 disappointed in me because I favored extracting from his kingdom. Several 00:40:22.780 --> 00:40:27.276 programs that make up the college of public programs. 00:40:27.309 --> 00:40:33.336 He, I don't mean even unpleasant, but we had shouting matches, but I was 00:40:33.369 --> 00:40:40.677 one of his favorite people. Okay. We don't like it. It was very located. 00:40:40.710 --> 00:40:44.577 He did one thing for that college and probably were the world because it's 00:40:44.610 --> 00:40:48.896 , we've been fairly successful in getting that done by the time you got 00:40:48.929 --> 00:40:54.006 here. That was before him. There was really a division in college between 00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:59.177 arts and Science. The science is versus the social sciences 00:40:59.210 --> 00:41:04.287 in terms of almost everything you wanted to know budget buildings. It was 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.376 about 00:41:07.409 --> 00:41:14.077 actually I ran back into the city I heard that right from the other way. 00:41:14.110 --> 00:41:18.666 They had them divided. There were a lot of people who think who thought 00:41:18.699 --> 00:41:25.376 that including me that they deserve to be, that they supported one another. 00:41:25.409 --> 00:41:29.447 That it was not. If I was majoring in history and you are majoring in 00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:36.137 Blarney, we shouldn't be totally unable to talk to separating. The 00:41:36.170 --> 00:41:43.477 department's tended to specialize student choices in ways 00:41:43.510 --> 00:41:45.677 help. 00:41:45.710 --> 00:41:52.677 But I have 38 direct reports in Oklahoma. I've never found a problem. 00:41:52.710 --> 00:41:59.677 Relate right at home Economics and social work. Physical education 00:41:59.710 --> 00:42:07.710 do I? History is who is that? But you know, they can be made to work. 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:15.467 Most academics are interested. Yeah, ideas, 00:42:15.500 --> 00:42:22.517 yes, promote conversation. They find ways, working with, enjoying each 00:42:22.550 --> 00:42:29.467 other. They're smart people here to start with 00:42:29.500 --> 00:42:37.500 Charles Wolf. Oh yeah. Here's the graduate college. 00:42:37.900 --> 00:42:40.367 No 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.256 brian foster came 00:42:44.289 --> 00:42:48.967 Charles Wolf was was a good granted 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:51.566 right. 00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:59.599 Administration school of Social work was there is now 00:43:00.699 --> 00:43:05.967 that was still part of the continent at that time. And so I didn't in the 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:13.367 contact, you know, with the people in individual programs for jules. Helen 00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:21.400 , he was finally fine honors. Yeah. But yeah, you're, you're bringing back 00:43:21.789 --> 00:43:29.267 nostalgia means I hadn't heard or remembered for some time, but 00:43:29.300 --> 00:43:34.467 Helen Matheson. 00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:41.367 See I'm passing the test. It might not be, but 70 00:43:41.400 --> 00:43:46.907 about a guy named Jack Bennett. He was a little bit of, he was vice 00:43:46.940 --> 00:43:50.166 president for business 00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:58.199 and he left Year or two for me. That's right. Yes. 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:05.747 Frank sacks. Good man. And I'm sorry I lost track of frank's, but he has 00:44:05.780 --> 00:44:13.077 died. Has not. Yeah. I thought someone had told me he was teaching courses 00:44:13.110 --> 00:44:20.827 up until last year. As I recall ethics guys, He was on Macarthur's staff 00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:26.887 in Japan after World War Two as a brigadier general. That's what you're 00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:30.456 talking about 1945. 00:44:30.489 --> 00:44:36.197 That's, you know, 55 years ago. And he was in general by then. So we 00:44:36.230 --> 00:44:40.416 didn't start out when he was 18. He was a general. I didn't, I don't know 00:44:40.449 --> 00:44:45.387 how old he is. But he's a remarkable man. He, he was still contributing 00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:52.396 and working hard and all over the place when I left And his remains, I'm 00:44:52.429 --> 00:44:59.287 told 16. He was very helpful, particularly helpful in the college of 00:44:59.320 --> 00:45:05.456 public programs because he, his home department was public administration. 00:45:05.489 --> 00:45:08.887 They didn't want to be in the college of the college and the College of 00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:13.456 didn't want them except for whatever money. 00:45:13.489 --> 00:45:21.489 So he was a strong supporter. Mm hmm. Lead to target public programs. 00:45:21.789 --> 00:45:27.557 I hope if you see him, you'll give him my regards. Not really. 00:45:27.590 --> 00:45:32.157 I thought that I had been told 00:45:32.190 --> 00:45:37.256 more about Brett brown, 00:45:37.289 --> 00:45:44.157 really hard working, intelligent, but very low key type of person that 00:45:44.190 --> 00:45:47.657 stayed below the radar. 00:45:47.690 --> 00:45:53.756 He came from a historically mormon family and he'd been on his 00:45:53.789 --> 00:45:58.896 when they called me mission and come back 00:45:58.929 --> 00:46:04.807 initiatives education maybe it was hard. He was paid by the developer 00:46:04.840 --> 00:46:10.046 throughout but his job was chief lobbyist. 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.537 He had all the tools. I mean his back his family background and everything 00:46:13.570 --> 00:46:17.546 about him qualified him. 00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:24.037 Be able to talk and be listening political establishment so he was really 00:46:24.070 --> 00:46:27.847 nice to I don't know what he did. 00:46:27.880 --> 00:46:33.646 Mhm. Their intent was to get us out of the lobbying 00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.447 with him 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:44.480 who is very active in getting the women's field campus. 00:46:44.980 --> 00:46:48.197 It's interesting there's three of us were our last names all began with B. 00:46:48.230 --> 00:46:54.447 Brown Bets and backers. Okay with the 00:46:54.480 --> 00:47:00.186 that's one because that's how where he lives. Yeah so he had he had a 00:47:00.219 --> 00:47:06.166 residential interest. Yeah sure. But he was a team player. He would have 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:10.947 been equally adamant trying to get the money for something in southeastern 00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:18.980 south west as he walks around. 00:47:20.980 --> 00:47:24.586 I want to talk a little bit about right state. I don't know why you gotta 00:47:24.619 --> 00:47:28.347 hear the interesting, you haven't talked about much there. I'd be 00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:32.177 interested in it because I was there when it was just a field along the 00:47:32.210 --> 00:47:37.907 road and uh since you helped develop the west campus. Imagine that's one 00:47:37.940 --> 00:47:41.537 of the reasons they hired you to help build that understand they had a 00:47:41.570 --> 00:47:47.847 pretty good medical school. 00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:51.146 They're not astronaut 00:47:51.179 --> 00:47:56.546 residency program for positions in the country, 00:47:56.579 --> 00:48:03.876 the only non military. So they do a lot of space age activity research and 00:48:03.909 --> 00:48:11.836 so but they also have traditional medical school. one of them successfully 00:48:11.869 --> 00:48:16.416 accredited ones that works with at the hospital. It was always a great 00:48:16.449 --> 00:48:23.037 advantage because hospitals pain in the neck for universities. Minister 00:48:23.070 --> 00:48:31.070 we used the community hospitals which are by many accounts better because 00:48:31.570 --> 00:48:36.336 in the research hospitals that most universities, 00:48:36.369 --> 00:48:42.336 the interns see only serious or desperate illnesses 00:48:42.369 --> 00:48:47.836 in the community hospitals. They see the real hospital world, 00:48:47.869 --> 00:48:51.336 maternity ward, 00:48:51.369 --> 00:48:58.947 broken bones, emergency gruesome, so they're more trained better In terms 00:48:58.980 --> 00:49:03.736 of what they're going to encounter in the medical world. And the other one 00:49:03.769 --> 00:49:08.887 that's good and burglaries. The university has been very, very successful. 00:49:08.920 --> 00:49:16.706 Not entirely during my watch we're entering, it's now Between 17 and 00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:22.177 19,000 students. It's not nearly as much as commuter school as it used to 00:49:22.210 --> 00:49:25.736 be. Housing 00:49:25.769 --> 00:49:29.037 25 00:49:29.070 --> 00:49:33.336 pretty size institution. 00:49:33.369 --> 00:49:36.137 It's in the same 00:49:36.170 --> 00:49:42.436 research category as measured by the Carnegie Foundation. That is using. 00:49:42.469 --> 00:49:45.157 That doesn't mean that that looks cool. You don't do as much as service 00:49:45.190 --> 00:49:50.776 is going to happen here. But it does mean that the research activity is as 00:49:50.809 --> 00:49:57.947 intensive there as it is here. There's only three categories. Both issues 00:49:57.980 --> 00:50:02.327 and Right state or in the middle category. 00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:05.146 The ones that are in the top category are the ones that you'd expect to 00:50:05.179 --> 00:50:08.526 find there. Thanks. 00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:12.026 And clearly 00:50:12.059 --> 00:50:15.927 research successes, 00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:20.447 right. State is located geographically right adjacent to wright patterson 00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:27.787 Air Force Base. Did that adjacency influence programs in the school. We 00:50:27.820 --> 00:50:30.436 used their laboratories 00:50:30.469 --> 00:50:36.026 engineering heavily. 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:40.526 A lot of people from their enrolled in 00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:46.236 two further the role education. Yeah, I think the president was that I had 00:50:46.269 --> 00:50:54.269 a protocol rank of brigadier general. So Walters parking please. 00:50:55.360 --> 00:51:00.657 They had a beautiful officers club. They're built in the W. P. A nice 00:51:00.690 --> 00:51:07.227 brick facility. 00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.907 I don't know how many there are now, but we were really successful with 00:51:09.940 --> 00:51:14.427 the legislature on capital appropriations 00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:20.327 and it's built uh, that that field is scarcely viewable as a field anymore 00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:25.166 and you can't see that much ground between the buildings yet has however, 00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:32.686 preserved very used, interesting architectural feature. And that is that 00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:39.227 every building is on tunnel system. Take the elevator to the bottom floor. 00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:42.887 You're not on the floor one, you're in the basement, You can walk from 00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:47.827 any building, any building. Yeah, 00:51:47.860 --> 00:51:52.907 the same person. We can serve disabled people without them ever having to 00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:56.827 go outside in the wintertime. 00:51:56.860 --> 00:52:01.166 That village. Prerequisite for each of the buildings that's been built 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:07.537 clear all up until I just finished or still get it on the drums. So only 00:52:07.570 --> 00:52:12.316 university in the country. 00:52:12.349 --> 00:52:19.617 And has had a full program of encouraging physically disabled students 00:52:19.650 --> 00:52:26.296 come to hydrogen and has a large large lumber enrollees are disabled in 00:52:26.329 --> 00:52:32.006 one way or the other on the physical infrastructure you were at the helm 00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:34.117 of 00:52:34.150 --> 00:52:38.747 at another center. Yeah. That, that makes you popular with the 00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:46.316 athletically inclined voters that corresponds to basket 00:52:46.349 --> 00:52:54.349 anybody. Arena where events are basketball committee 00:52:54.579 --> 00:52:59.236 in its design. Yeah, it was, it was designed by the people in Kansas city 00:52:59.269 --> 00:53:05.916 and I can't call their names. Hmm. Tv. Yeah, 00:53:05.949 --> 00:53:12.217 it's not, it's not a large arena standards of here. But for the whole deal 00:53:12.250 --> 00:53:19.117 Somewhere around 12,000 big enough kinds of events that the right. 00:53:19.150 --> 00:53:23.046 So it's, thank you. I've told people that was the best presidency in the 00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:28.336 country because I had a Division one athletic program but didn't play 00:53:28.369 --> 00:53:36.369 football and mhm mm hmm. 00:53:37.650 --> 00:53:42.356 And the hospital medical school didn't have a hospital. So if you can 00:53:42.389 --> 00:53:50.117 avoid those two things, that's kind of an idea of presidential Helen. 00:53:50.150 --> 00:53:53.416 I thought I was just tired by 19 00:53:53.449 --> 00:53:58.936 nine years at that time. The average presidency in the United States State 00:53:58.969 --> 00:54:01.006 University 00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:06.497 between four and 5 years and sort of double the average and I could afford 00:54:06.530 --> 00:54:14.307 to Quentin Westberg saying someone, I quit and watch birds and safe. 00:54:14.340 --> 00:54:19.566 I don't regret. And you're living where I live now in back in Fayetteville 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:24.287 Arkansas, it's the fourth time we've moved Undergraduate and graduate 00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:29.626 faculty. And now back we were starting to help head south Carolina for 11 00:54:29.659 --> 00:54:34.336 years and then one day at night, just looked at each other and said, what 00:54:34.369 --> 00:54:40.026 do you think about going back to fifth? Go to the same. Yeah, let's do it 00:54:40.059 --> 00:54:44.166 for 60 days later. We had mood. 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:46.867 Where are the 00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:53.217 no Beaver Lakes, 60 something 1000 acres. Have a cannon on. It had for 40 00:54:53.250 --> 00:54:59.606 years, but that had always taken us back there summertime. So it was 00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:05.407 Children going up there on the way their Children. 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:13.440 So since last week, the retirement communities like Hilton, 00:55:13.940 --> 00:55:21.940 they're fun, usually interesting places. But the black diversity in the 00:55:23.780 --> 00:55:29.206 population is just short of money 00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:33.486 there. There I knew one retired naval captain who told me one time he 00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:41.519 played golf. 250. Yeah. Now you got to be something wrong. 250 times a 00:55:42.150 --> 00:55:48.186 year. That's five times a week. Every week and two weeks on vacation. I'm 00:55:48.219 --> 00:55:53.336 sorry, more time with him and there and he was about it. He was by no 00:55:53.369 --> 00:55:58.606 means a long way in that. 00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:04.597 I'm trying to start. You mentioned the Hilton head, tell the story on you 00:56:04.630 --> 00:56:10.497 and you can deny it. Remember you, you came and you said matt. We've got a 00:56:10.530 --> 00:56:14.146 very nice condo and I've got a slip for the boat, I paid as much for the 00:56:14.179 --> 00:56:19.396 slip for the boat as it paid for the condo. That's true. So when I sold 00:56:19.429 --> 00:56:25.296 both of them, I got more for the boat that I got from that. 00:56:25.329 --> 00:56:33.329 It was not an economic success, but it was, we managed to live with. 00:56:41.730 --> 00:56:46.876 What caused you to pursue it a career in higher education. It sounds like 00:56:46.909 --> 00:56:52.486 you started on that track early early. Well, I like schools. I like to 00:56:52.519 --> 00:56:57.847 study. I liked history even though my first degree was in business. And 00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.776 when I, I didn't have anything else that I knew I wanted to do. I thought 00:57:01.809 --> 00:57:09.809 getting extra education in the field I really enjoy. It would be fun. 00:57:10.230 --> 00:57:15.097 Is there any one person who had a great influence and even you in that 00:57:15.130 --> 00:57:19.697 direction and a number of people? 00:57:19.730 --> 00:57:23.776 Well, I've been influencing practically everything. I've done a very loyal 00:57:23.809 --> 00:57:31.809 and hard, long suffering wife Married 53 years soon. The corn 00:57:32.019 --> 00:57:37.197 chief supporting goodbye activities. 00:57:37.230 --> 00:57:41.086 The decision to go off and do something else. I guess the thing that got 00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:46.137 me into athletic administration was the Dean of Origin Sciences in 00:57:46.170 --> 00:57:52.796 Arkansas. Who knew when there's an opening 00:57:52.829 --> 00:57:58.686 deems associate teams like the Kansas state of course was there. He was a 00:57:58.719 --> 00:58:03.577 good friend of the people in Kansas state. Mm hmm. They called and asked 00:58:03.610 --> 00:58:09.186 him if he had anybody who might be a good associate dean. Why sometimes I 00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:13.747 believe he told me because he saw these troublemakers. Anyway, he told 00:58:13.780 --> 00:58:16.997 them that he thought I would be good at that kind of thing. And sure 00:58:17.030 --> 00:58:20.637 enough I've interviewed and subsequently there they aren't, it's good 00:58:20.670 --> 00:58:24.767 experience changing States are very nice institution. Manhattan chances. 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:27.086 It's a wonderful 00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:31.977 someone could scarcely have started better place than Kansas State 00:58:32.010 --> 00:58:34.986 University 00:58:35.019 --> 00:58:41.287 being executive in an institution. Pretty time consuming, Pretty focused. 00:58:41.320 --> 00:58:48.097 You've managed to keep balance. How did you do that? You're a burden. 00:58:48.130 --> 00:58:51.486 You're an avid sailor. 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:55.787 Well, I'll take a little time off. 00:58:55.820 --> 00:58:59.566 No, I, I'm interested a lot of things and that's one reason why I like 00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:02.767 that can make administration, people would say, you know, why on earth do 00:59:02.800 --> 00:59:08.686 you want to be an academic administrator instead of Well paid academic 00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:11.387 with 10ure, 00:59:11.420 --> 00:59:15.666 good colleagues and entertained subject and so on. But my, my interests 00:59:15.699 --> 00:59:22.586 are too diverse. My wife and I have organized all of our travel project 00:59:22.619 --> 00:59:30.506 For the last 25 years around our interest in watching birds and that that 00:59:30.539 --> 00:59:33.526 can take you all over the world. We spent two months in Australia for 00:59:33.559 --> 00:59:38.847 example learning to give bird tours to Australia. This one interesting 00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:46.626 concept, but we did. Um, and we were pretty good at when we lived in a 00:59:46.659 --> 00:59:51.086 while, we were close enough to the great lakes that I could 00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:55.947 Buy and enjoy a 36-foot sailboat. And I, when we moved to South Carolina 00:59:55.980 --> 01:00:03.637 in retirement, I actually ascended from the Valley offshore two help me So 01:00:03.670 --> 01:00:09.356 it was diversion. I can not go to, we hear you on the weekend. Nobody was 01:00:09.389 --> 01:00:13.077 gonna give me a telephone call about. Right. 01:00:13.110 --> 01:00:18.506 And if they knew that I was no cell phones in those states, they know as a 01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:22.396 matter of fact they were, I was provided with a car phone, but it wasn't a 01:00:22.429 --> 01:00:27.177 cell phone, a real telephone. 01:00:27.210 --> 01:00:31.827 I'm not remembering. My technology is limited. Cell phones or semi 01:00:31.860 --> 01:00:34.776 mysterious. Still, 01:00:34.809 --> 01:00:38.606 we ought to mention you while living here in the desert. You also had a 01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:45.617 boat. Yes, I'd say a womanly pleasant before it was changed 26. And we 01:00:45.650 --> 01:00:51.767 have to move that boat. But you're and when I saw lake here the first time 01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:59.800 , I don't want to take that. So, so we have we've got a bigger role. So we 01:01:00.750 --> 01:01:03.577 will find the great lakes 01:01:03.610 --> 01:01:06.677 nine years after those. 01:01:06.710 --> 01:01:10.936 And so that was that was fun. And that keeps you, I think that keeps your 01:01:10.969 --> 01:01:16.276 mind british. You go back from the window weekend, 01:01:16.309 --> 01:01:19.206 you haven't been worried about things all week or something. Might even 01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:26.177 have a creative form. 01:01:26.210 --> 01:01:32.316 You were on a lot of different committees and commissions throughout your 01:01:32.349 --> 01:01:40.077 career. And I'm wondering if when you look back, you can 01:01:40.110 --> 01:01:46.387 comment on which ones of those were successful, not not in particular, but 01:01:46.420 --> 01:01:54.077 in general. And all this kind of work. What were the ingredients to make 01:01:54.110 --> 01:02:02.110 things work? Well, it's not one given any thought to. 01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:09.367 There are a lot of higher education associations. 01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:15.967 You start usually at a regional level. Get it acquainted with the people. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:21.577 That's where the that's why where they do their best work this, making 01:02:21.610 --> 01:02:26.186 people understand what other people are doing. Getting ideas watching out 01:02:26.219 --> 01:02:31.046 the pitfalls and so on. For example, I was a member of the, of the Dean's 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:35.727 group when I was in Kansas state that was all the beings in Kansas and 01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:38.066 Oklahoma. 01:02:38.099 --> 01:02:42.066 I moved to Oklahoma 01:02:42.099 --> 01:02:48.566 part of a group that was the whole Southwest and South Southern us 01:02:48.599 --> 01:02:54.316 together. So again, danger was Vice President of Academic affairs here. I 01:02:54.349 --> 01:03:02.349 was on vice president. Um So those geographically 01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:05.066 designated, 01:03:05.099 --> 01:03:08.367 not quite top level 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:15.736 groups are very important in teaching people who are and then providing 01:03:15.769 --> 01:03:21.037 contacts to help us leaders, big national organizations like the land 01:03:21.070 --> 01:03:23.666 grant Association. 01:03:23.699 --> 01:03:30.066 They do good work. A ce has a wonderful the american council on Education 01:03:30.099 --> 01:03:37.456 program on uh sending young faculty members to the mentor administrators 01:03:37.489 --> 01:03:42.967 are very program I mentioned l Felder, she was here for a year as a fellow 01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:46.776 and then we kept her on for it because you or something. And then we hired 01:03:46.809 --> 01:03:54.367 her as a deed that tells you right, our job. The same thing at wright 01:03:54.400 --> 01:04:01.657 state caring quiet. Mhm. Basically fellow, he kept her for a year there. 01:04:01.690 --> 01:04:05.146 She ended up, 01:04:05.179 --> 01:04:12.057 they're called president and chief operating officer. South florida. 01:04:12.090 --> 01:04:18.557 So you know, we had an opportunity. A lot of people who do no, I think 01:04:18.590 --> 01:04:22.756 that's sort of the typical body, you know, which is very helpful. It's 01:04:22.789 --> 01:04:30.789 costly to the yes, Travis is involved but in terms of pay off problems. 01:04:31.989 --> 01:04:35.456 Mhm. 01:04:35.489 --> 01:04:43.489 Just a young to be president ordered call you say I need some mentoring. 01:04:43.849 --> 01:04:49.037 I'm about to embark on an opportunity as a president of an institution. 01:04:49.070 --> 01:04:54.657 What guidance would you give them? 01:04:54.690 --> 01:05:00.526 Well, it depends on how ambitious he was. 01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:06.057 Yeah, they're they're endless tips. 01:05:06.090 --> 01:05:11.557 But I think it's, you know, develop your set of values, develop yourself 01:05:11.590 --> 01:05:19.206 of ambition before important institutions and trying to develop a program 01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:23.456 that leads you towards that. 01:05:23.489 --> 01:05:29.557 We did that with the uh Metropolitan University movement at Wright State 01:05:29.590 --> 01:05:33.756 and it's paid off in big, big time for writing. 01:05:33.789 --> 01:05:37.436 Unfortunately, it's not a move that that particular one is not a move that 01:05:37.469 --> 01:05:43.847 faculty likes it because they want to be nationally. They believe they're 01:05:43.880 --> 01:05:49.666 already nationally qualified leader. They want to be, mm hmm. Being really 01:05:49.699 --> 01:05:55.956 good Metropolitan Institution is not go 01:05:55.989 --> 01:05:58.756 incorrect thinking. 01:05:58.789 --> 01:06:04.956 But get into those situations where you're view of the future and your 01:06:04.989 --> 01:06:09.947 hopes for the future or not share 01:06:09.980 --> 01:06:13.566 history department or the whole college of liberal arts or the entire 01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:16.646 faculty or the legislature 01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:21.747 border regions. Big one. 01:06:21.780 --> 01:06:29.486 Reviews. Speaking of boards, how do you think of president best relates 01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:35.646 with the board? Well, I think there's a, there's a magic way. I think, 01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:41.557 yes, look at an individual board members. Mhm. If there things that an 01:06:41.590 --> 01:06:45.697 individual board members, you're trying to serve those interests if you 01:06:45.730 --> 01:06:53.730 can or explain why you can't and you generally ordered let the board 01:06:55.380 --> 01:07:01.146 Okay. Help the board do its duty by screaming 01:07:01.179 --> 01:07:03.847 ambitions 01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:11.526 b getting there for the, that may not be those may be they never be 01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:16.947 coincidental with that of the president or in the other office, 01:07:16.980 --> 01:07:22.247 but you're not going to change very many minds too often. 01:07:22.280 --> 01:07:26.117 Most of the board members are successful people. They know 01:07:26.150 --> 01:07:30.247 administration's work in the corporate world. 01:07:30.280 --> 01:07:33.347 Hey, 01:07:33.380 --> 01:07:38.447 you're running the ship pretty quickly. 01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:46.480 I'm not really in trouble. I called him. Well done. If in the bottom 01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:50.447 about the same question 01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:57.367 about the contrast between the board, the way you had it wright. State 01:07:57.400 --> 01:08:04.416 university from the board here in Arizona. I think there's no question 01:08:04.449 --> 01:08:06.637 whatsoever. 01:08:06.670 --> 01:08:12.486 A board that represents a single institution. You can do that better job 01:08:12.519 --> 01:08:15.436 of supporting the institution. 01:08:15.469 --> 01:08:23.469 Mm hmm. Who was that takes on the task of doing homework. 01:08:23.670 --> 01:08:29.246 Ohio had separate boards for each university. That's correct. Appointed by 01:08:29.279 --> 01:08:32.836 the governor. Nine year terms. 01:08:32.869 --> 01:08:36.347 Mm hmm. There. As I told you what? I know that there were 12 research 01:08:36.380 --> 01:08:41.767 institutions in the state and who prioritized who got the resources in the 01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:48.987 state. We're hitting the detector. What the, the board ran off of them. 01:08:49.020 --> 01:08:57.020 The board ran an office in things. Um, including what the executive 01:08:57.560 --> 01:09:05.006 secretary of the Uh huh. And he had the responsibility for developing the 01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:10.036 budget that the board would ultimately consider and approve and that would 01:09:10.069 --> 01:09:15.336 be for all three institutions here. Mhm. 01:09:15.369 --> 01:09:21.937 In Ohio the door, the central office and steve 01:09:21.970 --> 01:09:28.456 transmitted the budget request of the 12 institutions and provided 01:09:28.489 --> 01:09:35.036 lobbying support in the legislature in columbus on behalf of those 01:09:35.069 --> 01:09:42.227 projects that yes, there was a state board to which that group reported. 01:09:42.260 --> 01:09:49.536 It didn't have any response for an individual campus. And so mhm, 01:09:49.569 --> 01:09:54.286 campuses would sort that out every year in budget. What they do is they 01:09:54.319 --> 01:10:02.319 build a competitive I sense into Universe because clearly it's seen as a 01:10:02.819 --> 01:10:10.819 zero sum either. Not if you get it, then I don't get it. That makes being 01:10:11.710 --> 01:10:19.710 happy. Mm hmm. It's less pronounced in a system such as Ohio. Mhm, mm hmm 01:10:19.779 --> 01:10:25.036 . 01:10:25.069 --> 01:10:27.210 I quit.