WEBVTT 00:00:09.839 --> 00:00:11.839 Well, good morning. Today is 13 November 2012 and we're conducting an 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:18.837 interview for the Arizona State University retirees association video 00:00:18.870 --> 00:00:23.186 history project. Very important project. 00:00:23.219 --> 00:00:28.017 I'm bob Barnhill, it's nice to be with you here today. And the technical 00:00:28.050 --> 00:00:34.906 support staff are john McIntosh with the camera roger carter with audio 00:00:34.939 --> 00:00:41.909 and linda vance coy, the chair of the A. S. U. R. A video history project. 00:00:42.140 --> 00:00:44.140 Now 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:51.836 who are you again? Sorry? So let me introduce Amerigo linton. Who among 00:00:51.869 --> 00:00:56.406 other distinguishing features is my wife declared that right up front. Now 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.847 , why don't you tell us a little bit about first of all what you were at A. 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:06.607 S. U. And then about your early life. My name again is Marichal Glinton 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:12.467 and I was director of America of educational services and the College of 00:01:12.500 --> 00:01:19.536 Education ah was the director of education services and mathematics and 00:01:19.569 --> 00:01:24.706 then became director of american indian outreach. 00:01:24.739 --> 00:01:30.156 American indian programs at CSU East, the titles all sort of blurred 00:01:30.189 --> 00:01:35.436 together over the decades. Let's go back to your early life. Okay. I was 00:01:35.469 --> 00:01:42.857 born on the Marengo reservation in southern California. My father is 00:01:42.890 --> 00:01:50.890 indian, my mother was not ah the I'm Kaweah Cupertino and an enrolled 00:01:51.730 --> 00:01:58.546 member of the Marengo Band. And yes, we do have the biggest casino now in 00:01:58.579 --> 00:02:03.507 southern California, although at the time we were the poorest of the poor. 00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:09.626 Um The B I A schools closed a couple of years before I was born. So 00:02:09.659 --> 00:02:15.976 although my parents and that generation all went to b I a schools actually 00:02:16.009 --> 00:02:22.297 got decently educated but I went to the banning public schools bust from 00:02:22.330 --> 00:02:30.330 the reservation just a few miles into the, into town. Um then are you 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:35.936 going to trace your life path through school jobs before you arrived at 00:02:35.969 --> 00:02:38.807 Arizona State University. 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:41.117 Um 00:02:41.150 --> 00:02:48.876 most interesting probably is that I am the first ah California reservation 00:02:48.909 --> 00:02:56.909 indian to have ever left the reservation to have gone to college now in 00:02:57.349 --> 00:03:01.406 the old days I used to say and that wasn't so long ago now. It is that 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:06.527 long ago. But the frightening thing is that people still aren't doing that. 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:11.467 My cousins still are not educated. My brother's reservations are there in 00:03:11.500 --> 00:03:18.277 California. I think there are at least 50 reservations but it's very hard 00:03:18.310 --> 00:03:23.566 to really get account. You can't go up on youtube and the internet and say 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:28.147 count them because there are recognized and unrecognized. There are 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:32.647 California recognizing federal, recognized and on and on it. So it's a 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:37.106 very very complicated system but there at least 17 or 18 in southern 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:41.737 California and at least probably 10 in mid California and 20 in northern 00:03:41.770 --> 00:03:46.856 California. And where did you go to university? Uh I was very, very brave 00:03:46.889 --> 00:03:54.889 . I went to UC Riverside which was 25 miles away. Um I had a full tuition 00:03:54.900 --> 00:03:58.707 scholarship at USC 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:06.696 ah and as I like to kid ucr who now make a big deal of me the and you guys 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:14.729 didn't give me a penny and I still came here and I mean and the joke there 00:04:15.349 --> 00:04:23.207 is that my mother worked in riverside and we used to drive past this 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:29.366 beautiful building and I would say oh I want to go to school there I 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:36.337 wanted and it was the um Citrusy experiment station at U. C. I mean it is 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:42.257 now at UC Riverside but the year that I was ready to go to college, they 00:04:42.290 --> 00:04:46.697 built a university for me there. And so I didn't get to go to the 00:04:46.730 --> 00:04:51.007 beautiful building but I got to go to the other buildings around there. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:55.337 Now everybody had said you're an indian, why why are you going to college 00:04:55.370 --> 00:05:00.416 ? Indians don't go to college. You'll never get out. And if you ever get 00:05:00.449 --> 00:05:06.236 out you won't get to be able to get a job. And uh at any rate. But 00:05:06.269 --> 00:05:09.757 everybody, you know, even my father who actually liked me which most 00:05:09.790 --> 00:05:14.567 people didn't said when you flunk out, we're always here for you, which is 00:05:14.600 --> 00:05:19.777 very generous of course, but not exactly the encouragement you needed. So 00:05:19.810 --> 00:05:23.387 at any rate, the end of the first semester, little Indian girl goes, gets 00:05:23.420 --> 00:05:28.166 her little grades. She has been working her butt off 18 hours a day. I did 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:34.257 nothing except study study study study study, study Day & Night, seven 00:05:34.290 --> 00:05:38.507 days a week. And uh 00:05:38.540 --> 00:05:43.207 at the end of semester I had straight A's 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:48.567 and said well obviously I like that. My father is the most honest man in 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:52.676 the world, look at the grades and say but they're not mine. I have to give 00:05:52.709 --> 00:05:59.647 them back. So I go into the go to the register and I say I like these 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.806 grades very much but they're not mine you should give them to whoever they 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:08.027 are. Give me mine. They said we don't make that kind of mistake. Of course 00:06:08.060 --> 00:06:13.926 those your grades go away and don't bother us. So at any rate there are 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:19.916 those who claim I got straight A's in college. I actually think I gotta be 00:06:19.949 --> 00:06:24.267 in something. This isn't a time where they only gave 6% A's. Sort of 00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:29.976 gotten straight A's. It was not like it is today where they give 65% A's 00:06:30.009 --> 00:06:36.207 and a few bees and the C. Or D. But that was literally never more than 6%. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:41.767 But I had straight A's except a B. And in a class or when I when I was in 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:48.567 class they called on me I cried and ran out so I didn't have a I didn't do 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:52.106 well in classes where the 00:06:52.139 --> 00:06:59.087 graded on performance in class. So I went to U. C. R. I then spent a 00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:06.306 couple of years at the University of Iowa which was way too cold for me. 00:07:06.339 --> 00:07:14.339 Came back and got my PhD at um U. C. L. A. I am arguably the 17th 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:23.439 American Indian to have ever gotten a PhD. And it's There are now at least 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:29.627 700 I mean four or five years ago there was 650 700 american people 00:07:29.660 --> 00:07:34.397 claiming America Then you say but I'm the 17th. Can that really be the 00:07:34.430 --> 00:07:37.666 case? And the answer is no of course it can't be the case because in the 00:07:37.699 --> 00:07:43.317 day nobody wanted to admit that they were indian because there was so much 00:07:43.350 --> 00:07:48.757 prejudice And you just simply it was just simply not said except you have 00:07:48.790 --> 00:07:51.666 it stamped on your birth certificate and your 25 miles from your 00:07:51.699 --> 00:07:57.707 reservation and you have an Indian accent. Hey it was pretty hard to to 00:07:57.740 --> 00:08:03.697 remain concealed. Alright. My first job after getting my PhD uh my then 00:08:03.730 --> 00:08:07.327 husband was still in graduate school and but I was able to get a job. I 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.947 was at U. C. L. A. I was able to get a job at L. A. County general 00:08:09.980 --> 00:08:17.980 hospital. I was I worked for Schneiderman And Farnborough two very famous. 00:08:18.819 --> 00:08:25.067 Uh in fact their stuff is still being published. A very famous uh suicide 00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:30.916 research and adolescent suicide researchers. And it's I was reminded last 00:08:30.949 --> 00:08:37.396 night when I was thinking about this that I was in their research group 00:08:37.429 --> 00:08:43.096 the day that uh john Kennedy was assassinated. And so there was a lot of 00:08:43.129 --> 00:08:49.386 discussion about sub intended suicide. Why would anybody go to Dallas if 00:08:49.419 --> 00:08:56.187 you were a Kennedy and who was not terribly popular there. So we then 00:08:56.220 --> 00:09:03.037 moved to San Diego. And at that time I was able to get a job just walking 00:09:03.070 --> 00:09:08.587 on campus. Hi I'm a psychologist and I would like a job 00:09:08.620 --> 00:09:15.476 and the psychology department said we don't have anything now, but you can 00:09:15.509 --> 00:09:21.537 probably get a job in the um counseling service now. You have to remember 00:09:21.570 --> 00:09:28.596 that I'm an experimental psychologist. I had probably seen Freud's name in 00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:34.256 a book somewhere. I had I knew nothing about counseling, I knew nothing 00:09:34.289 --> 00:09:37.746 about clinical, although I had spent a year dealing with adolescent 00:09:37.779 --> 00:09:41.567 suicide. So they figured I was, they gave me all their hard cases because 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:48.447 I obviously was very skilled uh by the end of the day, psychology called 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.866 back and said, hey we have a couple of classes. So I know I'm halftime in 00:09:52.899 --> 00:09:56.817 psychology and halftime in the counseling center. A year later I was full 00:09:56.850 --> 00:10:04.850 time in the in the psychology department and immediately started my move 00:10:06.149 --> 00:10:13.307 up the ladder. The one of the interesting stories that bob reminded me of 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:16.006 was that 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:24.039 the I when I checked everybody, all the men were on tenure track, none of 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:29.096 the women, There were about eight or so women, none of the women were on 00:10:29.129 --> 00:10:34.057 tenure track. And I went to a friend, I didn't go to the chairman, I went 00:10:34.090 --> 00:10:40.006 to a friend who was a full professor and had a professional life and said 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:45.547 uh you know I have more publications than any of the men do I have you 00:10:45.580 --> 00:10:50.587 know I have better research background and ah I want to be put on a tenure 00:10:50.620 --> 00:10:56.526 track and they said well I said and not only do I want to be put on tenure 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:01.467 track I want all of the women to be put on tenure track Now I did not go 00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:05.516 out and get a vote from the women. I don't imagine that any woman in the 00:11:05.549 --> 00:11:10.506 department knows that I am the instrument by which they were put onto 00:11:10.539 --> 00:11:13.846 tenure track. And they said well you know if we put them on tenure track 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:19.087 we might have to fire them. I said if they're not good enough to be work 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:24.307 teaching here you want to fire him. And I never had any problem about that 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:31.006 but at any rate. So I marched up through the ranks. I was a Full professor 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:38.207 at 35. You have to remember I was on the reservation left the reservation 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:45.096 Just before my 18th birthday. So it took me 17 years to get educated and 00:11:45.129 --> 00:11:51.307 to make it to full professor. I then took a sabbatical leave and I went to 00:11:51.340 --> 00:11:59.340 use C san Diego uh with a wonderful ah set of mentors there. I wrote a 00:12:01.809 --> 00:12:07.506 chapter for a book that yeah still gets occasional notice. Well however 00:12:07.539 --> 00:12:10.646 many years later this is 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:16.526 decades and decades later. Uh but I also wrote a statistics book which is 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:22.187 the practical statistician which was in print for over 20 years and was 00:12:22.220 --> 00:12:26.447 the best selling statistics book. 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.677 That was in part because you're teaching specialty was quantitative 00:12:30.710 --> 00:12:34.506 methods for social scientists wasn't it? Whereas your research is long 00:12:34.539 --> 00:12:39.427 term memory that thank you for mentioning that. Yes. So and the reason I 00:12:39.460 --> 00:12:43.616 wrote the book was because I discovered that my students you know you 00:12:43.649 --> 00:12:48.547 lecture all semester and your students on the tests demonstrate that they 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:51.006 don't know 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:54.907 what it is you've been talking about you say. Ah But I could write a book 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:59.366 that would show what I was talking about and it really did extremely 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:06.736 effectively. The book was also very popular because I had a system of the 00:13:06.769 --> 00:13:11.486 equations are all there and they are all completely systematic right from 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:17.157 the beginning of analysis of variance up through all of the relatively 00:13:17.190 --> 00:13:21.807 simple statistics that would be used by any undergraduate but it's very 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:26.707 systematic and so people were able to use it when they were creating the 00:13:26.740 --> 00:13:33.707 programs which they were doing during those years. 00:13:33.740 --> 00:13:36.976 Now I come to the university of Utah 00:13:37.009 --> 00:13:44.717 the highlight of my. Uh So I one of the interesting things about the 00:13:44.750 --> 00:13:50.047 system in California in the day. Uh Women didn't get hired by the U. C. 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:55.547 System. The men got hired by the U. C. System. The women got hired by the 00:13:55.580 --> 00:14:00.817 state college system and then you couldn't move from the state. They 00:14:00.850 --> 00:14:07.226 couldn't hire the university could not hire from the state college. And so 00:14:07.259 --> 00:14:12.136 if you were a woman you were now stuck at the state college. And I said I 00:14:12.169 --> 00:14:18.157 have a crafty plan. I would leave the state and I got hired by the 00:14:18.190 --> 00:14:22.006 University of Utah 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.506 uh 00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:28.047 as a full professor, I was smart enough not to go as an associate 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.317 professor because then you have all the problems. So I said, I'll come, 00:14:32.350 --> 00:14:38.516 but only as a full professor, it required a unanimous vote of the faculty 00:14:38.549 --> 00:14:42.427 in the psychology department, which apparently we got, I don't know who 00:14:42.460 --> 00:14:48.207 twisted his arm, but I got a unanimous vote of the psychology department 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:50.407 and 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.886 um, 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:58.407 I am okay, but I am the first woman 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.077 ever hired by the University of Utah as a full professor. Now they hired 00:15:03.110 --> 00:15:09.126 administrators like you might hire a dean, make her a full professor, but 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:14.096 a faculty member, I was the first faculty member ever hired. Now one of 00:15:14.129 --> 00:15:21.386 the things that was amusing is that now I'm sort of a little celebrity uh 00:15:21.419 --> 00:15:27.756 in a very small way, but sterling Macmurray inn who was a graduate dean or 00:15:27.789 --> 00:15:32.106 something, was on the Carnegie Foundation for the advancement of teaching 00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:36.177 and he was just going off, he had the board, he had the Carnegie board 00:15:36.210 --> 00:15:44.210 beat on campus, they forced me to give a talk to the board and what I said 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:49.067 to them was, you know, you say, what am I gonna say to these people, I 00:15:49.100 --> 00:15:51.927 can't say anything, I don't have anything to say, I'm you know, and so on 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:59.960 , but I dressed beautifully and I went in and said crucially that the 00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:08.766 university of Utah hired me because they wanted, because they said they 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:16.799 wanted an american indian woman. In fact they hired me because I profile 00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:25.570 as an, as a white male. So they loved the fact that, I mean, one of the 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:32.026 parts of my interview was that I beat all the males in the department in 00:16:32.059 --> 00:16:39.506 the racquet sport of their choice. I mean, so that's, I mean, this is, but 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:44.937 which is unusual for a woman applying for a job. The Carnegie Foundation 00:16:44.970 --> 00:16:50.427 invited me to be on the Carnegie Foundation is an eight year term and I 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:55.506 thought I have no business being in here. It's a whole bunch of precedents 00:16:55.539 --> 00:16:58.577 and the, and my friends called it the prince, the princes and the 00:16:58.610 --> 00:17:04.357 president's ah, but it turned and, and at first I had no idea what anybody 00:17:04.390 --> 00:17:09.326 was talking about and after about a year I could predict what people are 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:14.167 going to say because everybody has one theme and they're all talking, they 00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:19.306 have one position there. And anyway, so, but I learned a lot about 00:17:19.339 --> 00:17:22.756 administration at that time. A little digression there, weren't you? The 00:17:22.789 --> 00:17:30.789 Utah scores champion. Yes, later I o because President Gardner, who is 00:17:31.410 --> 00:17:35.357 David David President David Gardner of the University of Utah who later 00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:38.107 became 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:44.546 Chancellor of the university of California system, you see system. Uh, but 00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:50.006 any rate, he were at a party one day, huge 100 couple 100 people and I, 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:54.877 you know, I'm talking to him and he says, oh and by the way I have done 00:17:54.910 --> 00:18:01.496 the only selfish thing I've ever done, I have put in some squat courts at 00:18:01.529 --> 00:18:08.086 the university of Utah and I said, oh do you play squash? And how does, 00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:11.607 how does humble 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:17.917 psychology professor play squash with the president? He says call Lillian 00:18:17.950 --> 00:18:24.847 and say Lillian set it up. I said good. Then I ran across this huge thing 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:32.657 and found Bill Bill was the be squash champion that year in the state of 00:18:32.690 --> 00:18:37.286 Utah. So the best, I mean not the a champion, those guys were much too, 00:18:37.319 --> 00:18:40.137 but and I didn't know any of them, but he was the bee champion and I did 00:18:40.170 --> 00:18:43.536 know him and said you have three months in which teach me how to play 00:18:43.569 --> 00:18:50.996 squash. So he took me out, played with me every, you know, once a week for 00:18:51.029 --> 00:18:54.826 two hours, just beat the one piece out of me at the beginning and I kept 00:18:54.859 --> 00:18:58.707 getting better and better and better. By the time I got to Dave Gardner, 00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:04.286 he was putty in my hands. So you know, I called up Lillian and Lillian 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.266 said, okay, what day? And we set it up and then after the, after these 00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:14.417 games, the secretaries all did the same thing, they all said, oh and how 00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:20.597 did the squash game go marigold? And I said we had a very, very good game 00:19:20.630 --> 00:19:27.586 and she said, oh you beat him again, Good any right. So and the problem 00:19:27.619 --> 00:19:32.816 was like most that he had, he had some weaknesses in his game namely his 00:19:32.849 --> 00:19:36.907 backhand. And you know you played if you, if you wanted to give him a good 00:19:36.940 --> 00:19:39.986 game, you played to his forehand, if you wanted to win that you hit him to 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:45.486 his backhand or hit a chimney shot which came down and he couldn't handle 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:48.996 those. So 00:19:49.029 --> 00:19:54.786 then the next exciting thing is that I was invited by some friends to go 00:19:54.819 --> 00:20:02.506 on a river trip. It is a 10 day river trip down the Grand Canyon 00:20:02.539 --> 00:20:08.086 and you wouldn't think this would be an educational matter. But I, I met 00:20:08.119 --> 00:20:14.647 Bob on this 10 Day River trip. The short story is after 10 days. I said I 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:20.607 don't want to see any of those people ever again. 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:27.697 But five years later bob and I got married And I acquired two delightful 00:20:27.730 --> 00:20:34.417 stepchildren who were quite young at the time. But Margaret who uh spent 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:39.697 one semester at A. S. U. She's, she has gone up to, she has gone up on the 00:20:39.730 --> 00:20:45.836 stage to receive the best freshman essay. The thing that they give, she 00:20:45.869 --> 00:20:51.187 comes down and she says oh I hate it here and I'm leaving. Well she didn't 00:20:51.220 --> 00:20:55.836 say, I hate it here. She said I want to go out and find myself and I'm 00:20:55.869 --> 00:21:03.526 leaving john however, she's now a um has her PhD and is teaching at san 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:10.407 luis Obispo john got his B. A. Here, that's the second the sun got his end. 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:15.006 Still talks about his favorite teacher, Pat Goldberg. 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:21.457 Well why did we choose A. S. U. Let's talk about that. Okay bob was wanted 00:21:21.490 --> 00:21:26.796 a new position. He had been at Utah for 23 years and he was tired of being 00:21:26.829 --> 00:21:32.226 at Utah. I was having a good time I thought and didn't want to leave. But 00:21:32.259 --> 00:21:36.516 and I figured, I mean I had the best office on campus, I mean I had all 00:21:36.549 --> 00:21:39.796 these great all this great stuff and I thought I was never going to do 00:21:39.829 --> 00:21:44.806 better than this. And there were, the problem was there were a whole bunch 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:51.836 of institutions who wanted bob uh for example in Minnesota I said you 00:21:51.869 --> 00:21:58.806 might be too cold bob too cold won't come, no bad, bad. And so we have 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.526 Minnesota we and and several other places and then there are all these 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:07.367 places that want me but they're small places where they specialize in 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:12.917 indians and so on and but I had nothing to offer to bob. So finally he 00:22:12.950 --> 00:22:18.826 said how about a. S. U. And his selling point is there are lots of indians 00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:26.556 in Arizona aren't there? So and what I remembered was the bogan via on the 00:22:26.589 --> 00:22:33.397 campus and so it was indians and bougainvillea that got me at least here. 00:22:33.430 --> 00:22:36.476 But you also knew about phoenix. You had an aunt that have been here for 00:22:36.509 --> 00:22:41.236 many years. Oh yeah but we won't say what I said to my aunt when she moved 00:22:41.269 --> 00:22:47.117 to phoenix. Why would anybody that was much earlier when we arrived today 00:22:47.150 --> 00:22:53.976 ? Issue. And how many years were we here? We arrived in 1986 and I was 00:22:54.009 --> 00:23:00.917 here for 12 years. uh Bob was here only 11 years. And in fact my very 00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:08.296 first retirement Was from A. S. U. in 1998. Now why would one retire from 00:23:08.329 --> 00:23:13.826 s you will, they had just changed the rules so that you could get some 00:23:13.859 --> 00:23:20.796 kind of All of your retirement, all of your sick leave and everything 00:23:20.829 --> 00:23:25.996 in 1986. Well it was beautiful of course as it is now, there weren't as 00:23:26.029 --> 00:23:32.407 many buildings and it was fascinating watching the buildings being built. 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:40.440 Ask you West had apparently just been initiated and issue east, the 00:23:40.940 --> 00:23:44.717 polytechnic campus, it was a few years in the future but we're going to be 00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:51.976 coming back to that. And I think that as you achieved Research one status 00:23:52.009 --> 00:23:57.877 during this time. Incidentally given by the Carnegie Foundation for the 00:23:57.910 --> 00:24:03.246 Advancement of Teaching with Ernie Boyer who I hired while I was on the I 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:08.036 mean I hired the board hired, well I was serving with them. So there's 00:24:08.069 --> 00:24:14.576 that little research one in 1994 99. Okay. Who were some of the folks at a. 00:24:14.609 --> 00:24:18.127 S. U. In charge of the administration at the time. The president provost 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:24.397 , the various Dean's that you served under. I was I was ahead of my unit 00:24:24.430 --> 00:24:29.246 educational services in the College of Education. The dean was Gladys 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:37.279 johnston followed by Leonard valverde and then followed by Dean Webb. Ah 00:24:38.630 --> 00:24:44.437 The provost I came in under as I've indicated was Jack Kinzinger followed 00:24:44.470 --> 00:24:51.226 by interim Elmer Gooding and then Milk Glick and the president I came in 00:24:51.259 --> 00:24:58.467 under was Russell nelson then acting president. Richard Peck. Now why did 00:24:58.500 --> 00:25:03.697 we have such a good relationship with peck fellow Wisconsin graduate? So 00:25:03.730 --> 00:25:09.947 we had a lot of conversations with peck because bob knew him and then 00:25:09.980 --> 00:25:16.476 finally laddie cours which as I remember you helped recruit find something 00:25:16.509 --> 00:25:21.907 possibly I was on the search committee for the okay 00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:26.776 so what was your home department? 00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:33.806 My home unit when I arrived? Um I am very small dog bob is very big dog 00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:40.826 and bob brought his entire entourage with him. I was merely a part of the 00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:48.766 entourage. Uh And then provost Jack Kinzinger basically said I could do 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:54.806 anything I wanted, they offered me for example I could do my research 00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:59.546 which I mean I had a very interesting line of research and I could do that 00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:07.246 for three years. The only catch is at the end of three years I had to be 00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:12.516 self supporting and you say I'm 00:26:12.549 --> 00:26:18.627 too young to die, I cannot afford to do this. Um Then I could have gone to 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:23.256 the psychology department. But Kinzinger was good enough to say that three 00:26:23.289 --> 00:26:30.506 people from the central administration had just exercised retreat rights 00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:36.447 into the, into psychology and that psychology might not be Extremely 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:42.627 pleased to have a 4th person heaped in there, you know, because they don't 00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:46.026 get any choice in, you know what, what is it? Somebody said to me there is 00:26:46.059 --> 00:26:48.887 no free lunch, you know, you've got all these people in the wrong 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:53.437 disciplines there, possibly not up to date. So at any rate, he suggested 00:26:53.470 --> 00:26:58.597 that wasn't really a great idea. Uh but he said I could be an 00:26:58.630 --> 00:27:04.316 administrator in some department in some college. And so there were two 00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:08.097 colleges that looked interesting and would seem suitable and the first of 00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:15.947 them was social work which had a black dean and uh 00:27:15.980 --> 00:27:22.996 education which also had a black dean. And I decided that education which 00:27:23.029 --> 00:27:26.707 at least overlap to some extent with because I have ed psych and so on to 00:27:26.740 --> 00:27:32.457 some extent with my interest would be more appropriate Now what they did 00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:36.476 once I had made this choice, they said, oh we've got this real easy little 00:27:36.509 --> 00:27:42.246 job for you, Mark Gold. Real nice easy job. There are these three units 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:47.976 and we're bringing them together and they will be under you. Now the first 00:27:48.009 --> 00:27:53.177 problem is that I had never administered anything more than 1/6 of a 00:27:53.210 --> 00:27:55.207 secretary. 00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:01.867 So I had no administrative experience and 00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:06.697 these three units all hated each other and did not want to be all lumped 00:28:06.730 --> 00:28:13.647 together. And so there I am, it lasted about two years and I won't go 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:18.407 through all the details of that. It was very complicated, very 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:25.627 ups and downs, all sorts of things. And um at the end of two years they 00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:31.516 put me out of my misery and put me took me as a head of one of the three 00:28:31.549 --> 00:28:35.256 units. So I'm now the head of still have the same title still looks like 00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:38.806 the same thing. But it's a unit that has a different set of 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.246 responsibilities. Now I thought I was going to die. I was so humiliated. I 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:47.107 was so 00:28:47.140 --> 00:28:53.377 sad. I felt so stupid. I felt so you know you name the word, I was just 00:28:53.410 --> 00:28:58.006 felt terrible. Ah 00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:03.927 then they put me in a leadership training thing. That was interesting 00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.036 enough and you think well they're probably not firing me if they're doing 00:29:07.069 --> 00:29:09.947 this. So that made me feel really remember what the name of the thing was. 00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:13.526 But anyway, I got to do that. 00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:18.617 Actually do well what I wanted. I do want to mention though that here I am 00:29:18.650 --> 00:29:25.657 in this absolute abject misery. And uh there was a person Bill Murphy's on 00:29:25.690 --> 00:29:33.690 campus who was who talk to people who were having difficulties and I am so 00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:38.417 grateful to him. I will never forget him. I was so sad when he died. I 00:29:38.450 --> 00:29:43.887 mean he's just a wonderful person who talked very sensibly. You know he 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:46.177 said you're obviously a very bright girl, you should, I mean most of the 00:29:46.210 --> 00:29:50.467 people I get in here are have serious problems. You have minor problems. 00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:55.887 But anyway very straightforward very and but very compassionate and I give 00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.476 a lot of credit to A. S. U. For having number one had having an office 00:30:00.509 --> 00:30:05.097 like that. That was that effective and having somebody like mermaids who 00:30:05.130 --> 00:30:11.607 was such a decent and compassionate person. 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:19.640 My new job. Well it turns out that once I once I look at my new job it's 00:30:19.930 --> 00:30:22.407 actually wonderful 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:27.066 and that's one of the morals of everything is that it a lot of it depends 00:30:27.099 --> 00:30:32.306 on how you look at it and your willingness to be flexible and to change. 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:37.996 And so I ended up uh in a in a brand new little unit that was responsible 00:30:38.029 --> 00:30:43.746 for scholarships. You look around you discover there are these paul 00:30:43.779 --> 00:30:48.026 Douglas scholarships and A. S. U. Isn't getting any of them, we might have 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:52.586 gotten one a year or something like that and they're the paul Douglas 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:58.937 teaching scholar teachers scholarship program, great program. And so what 00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:04.157 I did is grabbed everybody in, asked them if they were interested and 00:31:04.190 --> 00:31:08.677 eligible and then sat there, you know you have to write a you have to 00:31:08.710 --> 00:31:14.667 write a story. And one of the things I indicated I managed to get through 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:18.826 undergraduate school by writing brilliantly I managed to write a book that 00:31:18.859 --> 00:31:25.236 was well received. I really do understand how to capture images. So I let 00:31:25.269 --> 00:31:29.066 the kids talk, you know, and I'd say, what did you do, What? You know, and 00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:34.506 you have somebody who says, and then my family, 00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:40.127 our seasonal workers, they pick, you know the pick the beans and so on. So 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:44.006 moving through and you say stop, 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:50.407 that's what you want to highlight. This is my background, this is the, you 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:55.387 know, my brothers are not and sisters are not educated, I want to get an 00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:58.867 education. Then you have them come in, you didn't write it for him, but 00:31:58.900 --> 00:32:05.207 you had them take this vignette, they would write it, you'd say do a spell 00:32:05.240 --> 00:32:11.157 check on it or some equivalent, make sure it's written in english. And but 00:32:11.190 --> 00:32:15.336 we won almost all of the scholarships just as a result of that. Rather 00:32:15.369 --> 00:32:20.766 minor intervention. I mean, so that alone would have paid to the extent 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:25.736 that you can do that paid my salary. But we were also responsible. I don't 00:32:25.769 --> 00:32:31.066 know whether it's still required in Arizona. Uh the pre professional 00:32:31.099 --> 00:32:38.756 skills test to get into uh college of education, they had, they wanted to 00:32:38.789 --> 00:32:43.816 be sure that people could read, write and do math. And it turned out just 00:32:43.849 --> 00:32:49.597 differential e affected all of the minorities. There were no american 00:32:49.630 --> 00:32:54.937 indians who were passing the test, relatively few Hispanics, relatively 00:32:54.970 --> 00:33:00.496 few african americans. But we devised a program. The first thing was it 00:33:00.529 --> 00:33:05.947 was very interesting that it doesn't sound like much, but you know, I'm 00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:09.447 sitting there one day and I realized that everybody thinks they can come 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:15.286 in and spend two hours, you know, there At the 5th grade in math. They 00:33:15.319 --> 00:33:19.536 figure they come in and they'll spend two hours and they can go out and 00:33:19.569 --> 00:33:24.597 they'll be ready to pass the math test. I mean, 00:33:24.630 --> 00:33:31.476 well, at any rate. So the first thing, you know, I said one day, how many 00:33:31.509 --> 00:33:35.647 hours do you think it takes for a point to raise a point? And they said 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:41.036 probably four hours. So we would just, that's what we did took the number 00:33:41.069 --> 00:33:45.187 of points. They missed it, multiplied it by four hours. Sometimes this is 00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:51.336 100 hours. But at least you now know. And anybody who did, sometimes it 00:33:51.369 --> 00:33:55.076 was only 16 hours. We had somebody who came in who had flunked it, came in 00:33:55.109 --> 00:34:00.536 , spent two days went out and passed it easily. But sometimes it took 100 00:34:00.569 --> 00:34:05.387 hours. But if the person sat there regardless of race creed color, they 00:34:05.420 --> 00:34:11.327 spent the 100 hours, they were able to make up enough of the deficiencies 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.436 that they, you know, and they're whining the entire time. I'm only going 00:34:14.469 --> 00:34:17.376 to be teaching kindergarten. Why do I have to be able to add and subtract 00:34:17.409 --> 00:34:25.409 ? But it ain't right. So, but that was something that was 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.347 very, it was very satisfying. The other very satisfying thing that 00:34:30.380 --> 00:34:36.907 happened during that period was that the White mountain Apache tribe 00:34:36.940 --> 00:34:41.506 apparently 20 years earlier. So this would have been early nineties. It 00:34:41.539 --> 00:34:46.586 would have been an early seventies, 20 years earlier had the College of 00:34:46.619 --> 00:34:50.666 Education had trained all of their teachers and they came and they said 00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:53.816 all these teachers have gotten old and are retiring and they want some 00:34:53.849 --> 00:35:01.849 more teachers and could s. U. Train there. Um teacher aides and so every, 00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:09.146 I won't mention any names. So everybody said oh that'll be easy. And you 00:35:09.179 --> 00:35:15.517 say you say no, not that easy. Not that easy. You know when you go and you 00:35:15.550 --> 00:35:18.706 meet them and everybody, 00:35:18.739 --> 00:35:22.537 the Dean's staff are all saying oh easy we can, we should be able to do 00:35:22.570 --> 00:35:27.427 this. Say not that easy. You know, and then you start looking at the 00:35:27.460 --> 00:35:34.767 transcripts. They've been taking classes for 20 years. They have six 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:40.747 credits that will transfer. They have scores that were worse than the 00:35:40.780 --> 00:35:45.486 scores that the kids going to the PPS. T. Were. So they're not gonna be 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.816 able to pass the PPS. T. But we started creating a program and we spent 00:35:50.849 --> 00:35:56.307 several years working with um 00:35:56.340 --> 00:36:01.836 especially well working with White Mountain Apache getting them. Now there 00:36:01.869 --> 00:36:07.077 was one really embarrassing thing but it's certainly taught me a lesson. I 00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:10.997 will never forget. You know, I had no fantasy that I grew up on a small 00:36:11.030 --> 00:36:15.117 reservation. I know all about the other 600 tribes. I didn't have that 00:36:15.150 --> 00:36:19.197 fantasy but I didn't realize how ignorant it was possible to be. So I'm 00:36:19.230 --> 00:36:24.477 going there and there are two cities, their Civic You and White River and 00:36:24.510 --> 00:36:28.387 we only have enough money to run run program. So I wanted them to all play 00:36:28.420 --> 00:36:36.420 together. I did not realize that Civic, you had been the rebels in 18 00:36:40.030 --> 00:36:48.030 80 to 90. And White River, Fort Apache. I mean it never registered Fort 00:36:48.530 --> 00:36:53.057 Apache until I saw one of those old pictures. And you say, what are all 00:36:53.090 --> 00:36:58.796 those tents? Well after all that was Fort Apache. Those are the 00:36:58.829 --> 00:37:06.617 the scouts that were out chasing the people who are at Civic you. And if 00:37:06.650 --> 00:37:10.316 you live on a reservation you will understand the phrase. It's only 100 00:37:10.349 --> 00:37:17.166 years. Nobody had forgotten everybody hated the other group. And I'm there 00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:23.287 saying play nice play nice. And I also interest you. And it's one of the A. 00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:30.546 S. U. Research reports where I said, is it okay for me to say that you 00:37:30.579 --> 00:37:34.896 are the people of Geronimo 00:37:34.929 --> 00:37:42.929 now? Mm hmm. And the guy gritted his teeth and said yes you could say that. 00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:51.037 But of course its Civic you. That's the people of Geronimo. And and so 00:37:51.070 --> 00:37:55.787 and so it's a it's really I mean it's one of those blunders where you say 00:37:55.820 --> 00:38:02.986 so. That's why everything was so funny for a while. Mr Intercession in 00:38:03.019 --> 00:38:08.456 this series. Um Conrad's story has an interview as well and he's the one 00:38:08.489 --> 00:38:12.827 that produced those A. S. U. Research magazines. Yes. Well anyway it's a 00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:19.586 beautiful story but it's got this wonderful error. 00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:25.586 I really liked working with the Apache but 00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:29.537 the College of Education decided they didn't want to do this anymore. And 00:38:29.570 --> 00:38:36.157 so they just abandoned the program. And so I abandoned the College of 00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:42.606 Education. And I had an offer from Joaquin Gusteau's to work in the math 00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:46.506 department because he was doing things with tribes and with indians and he 00:38:46.539 --> 00:38:53.756 thought that would be a good fit now as we all know. Well as many who have 00:38:53.789 --> 00:38:58.217 dealt with Joaquin. No, he's extremely difficult to work with. But I I 00:38:58.250 --> 00:39:04.986 thought me I can get along with anybody. I'm easy to get along with. He's 00:39:05.019 --> 00:39:11.637 well it turns out that it's true Joaquin, very very difficult together. 00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:14.816 This is nothing, you know, it's one of those things where it has nothing 00:39:14.849 --> 00:39:20.416 to do with the quality of his work, his sincerity, his you name it, a 00:39:20.449 --> 00:39:28.449 wonderful person who's legacy is unquestioned but very hard to work with. 00:39:29.219 --> 00:39:35.356 Uh but during the time I was working for him, I was encouraged by one of 00:39:35.389 --> 00:39:39.847 my friends at santa Cruz Cliff pu dri Who won't be mentioned again 00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:45.097 probably, but is a very very important figure throughout the next 20 years 00:39:45.130 --> 00:39:51.776 of my life uh as he moved up in his ranks. But he wanted me to become 00:39:51.809 --> 00:39:56.887 involved with the National Science Foundation's rural systemic initiative 00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:04.920 input. So he had me serve on a on the group that in fact wrote the RFP the 00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:12.376 request for proposal and I then went two 00:40:12.409 --> 00:40:15.637 a huge meeting. They had a huge meeting where they're trying to develop 00:40:15.670 --> 00:40:20.876 the coalitions that are going to be funded by the ah, 00:40:20.909 --> 00:40:26.816 that will be funded by NSF. And there, this was just a Joaquin said, nah, 00:40:26.849 --> 00:40:32.497 you'll never get the money, not worth doing a waist big waste of time. You 00:40:32.530 --> 00:40:36.677 can go if you want to. But I'm not going. So I went with my little troupe 00:40:36.710 --> 00:40:42.807 of people and we met, well there are hundreds of people wandering around 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.396 and you're there trying to get a big enough group and you'd say, well I 00:40:46.429 --> 00:40:52.017 have six Arizona counties and 10 tribes and they'd say too small. You know 00:40:52.050 --> 00:40:58.947 , I have, we have the state of Arizona too small and we keep, so finally I 00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:06.017 got in with a group that was called, you can Utah colorado Arizona new 00:41:06.050 --> 00:41:13.327 Mexico four states and I carved out a piece of it And every day I am 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:18.436 pleased that I did not say I must have Navajo, the Navajo had its own 00:41:18.469 --> 00:41:23.137 coalition. I got the other 19 tribes in Arizona. So I was the head of the 00:41:23.170 --> 00:41:30.077 Arizona tribal coalition. Um and we were funded for five years and did all 00:41:30.110 --> 00:41:34.686 sorts of remarkable things going from reservation to reservation. One of 00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:41.436 the, one of the jokes of my staff was before you leave, you have to be 00:41:41.469 --> 00:41:49.469 able to name All 20 tribes in under two minutes and I still can't do that 00:41:49.590 --> 00:41:53.077 . I mean, you know, you always leave out who will appear have a pyre 00:41:53.110 --> 00:41:59.776 something, but any rate. So that was very, it was very, very satisfying 00:41:59.809 --> 00:42:06.447 and certainly worthwhile. There were endless adventures with this. Uh, but 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:11.416 I shall leave those out, moving on to another thing. There's one really 00:42:11.449 --> 00:42:19.197 sort of funny uh, note Nasa, what is Nasa? Space guys? Space guys. Well, 00:42:19.230 --> 00:42:24.816 you know, so Nasa uh, came to a number of tribal colleges and universities 00:42:24.849 --> 00:42:29.396 and they wanted to develop a thing called Aztec american indian science 00:42:29.429 --> 00:42:33.477 Technology Engineering consortium. You know, it had like University of 00:42:33.510 --> 00:42:38.807 Washington, Arizona State, South Dakota School of Mines and then tribal 00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:46.097 Haskell, indian nations which fits into a later part of the story. Ah So 00:42:46.130 --> 00:42:50.066 at any rate, Nasa wanted the president of the institution to be the lead. 00:42:50.099 --> 00:42:56.796 So President Core gets a message asking him to set this up. President Core 00:42:56.829 --> 00:43:00.367 passed it on to provost, click 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:06.347 provost, click, passes it on to bob who was then vice President for 00:43:06.380 --> 00:43:13.247 Research and says, you know about indians, bob passes it on to me who says 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:19.617 , I'm not going to pretend to be a president. And so bob and I went 00:43:19.650 --> 00:43:21.767 together 00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:28.847 and became by far the best president in the entire consortium because we 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:33.367 knew everything. I mean there was some real presidents, but they didn't 00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:38.117 know much. So anyway, so that was sort of fun, just just as a small 00:43:38.150 --> 00:43:42.557 interruption. I reminded laddie of this couple of days ago at the end of 00:43:42.590 --> 00:43:47.566 tomorrow's college retreat. Did he recognize it 00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:54.367 well at any rate. So we had a lot of fun. Then A. S. U. East was invented 00:43:54.400 --> 00:44:02.400 and as chuck bacchus who's is walking across the campus after having been 00:44:02.789 --> 00:44:10.736 appointed as provost of the of east, he asked me two, he said you'll be my 00:44:10.769 --> 00:44:15.436 first hire, will you come to east? I mean I think that's not literally the 00:44:15.469 --> 00:44:19.517 case but that's nevertheless what he said. Now chuck had been a good 00:44:19.550 --> 00:44:23.367 friends of bob's and I had had an opportunity to get to know him pretty 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:29.816 well so and I thought he was a good guy. In addition there are certain 00:44:29.849 --> 00:44:34.517 problems about being the psychologist in the math department. A lot of 00:44:34.550 --> 00:44:40.697 little indignities. I mean the this is not a science kind of indignities. 00:44:40.730 --> 00:44:48.557 So I was delighted to go to leave, taking with me the big grant 00:44:48.590 --> 00:44:50.756 that 00:44:50.789 --> 00:44:57.126 and chuck and and boost oh said you can't take that. I said hey I'm the P 00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:01.477 . I on it. I can take it. You didn't want it, you didn't and I am taking 00:45:01.510 --> 00:45:07.977 it thank you. So At at east in addition to providing services to the tribe 00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:15.637 which we served the 19 reservations. You know had activities on campus 00:45:15.670 --> 00:45:21.586 training of their staff that is always less successful than you would 00:45:21.619 --> 00:45:24.586 think because you train the staff and the staff can only stand it on the 00:45:24.619 --> 00:45:31.557 reservation for two years and they leave so you're sort of just constantly 00:45:31.590 --> 00:45:35.677 cleaning out the stables and it's just very very difficult. So I don't 00:45:35.710 --> 00:45:40.436 claim any great successes. But at least we tried very hard and I had some 00:45:40.469 --> 00:45:47.097 amazing experiences because I got to meet all the education directors of 00:45:47.130 --> 00:45:54.046 all the tribes. There was one wonderful thing where I attended the Tejano 00:45:54.079 --> 00:46:02.079 Autumn meeting um of the tribal council. It was extremely edifying because 00:46:02.289 --> 00:46:07.706 of course the entire thing was in autumn so 00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:13.186 they didn't bother to translate for me. So I just, but it was very, I mean 00:46:13.219 --> 00:46:18.296 it was nice, it was beautiful. It sounded the languages are not at all 00:46:18.329 --> 00:46:22.427 similar. I mean they're not related as far as I know, but it sounded just 00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:28.477 like my grandmother, which was very nice. Um and I'm sort of vague on all 00:46:28.510 --> 00:46:32.506 of the things that happened at A. S. U. East because mostly I was racing 00:46:32.539 --> 00:46:36.747 around, you know, to visit Hopi to visit 00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:42.916 here, the river to visit and so on. And to be fair, CSU East wasn't set up 00:46:42.949 --> 00:46:45.247 yet. 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:50.046 That's a yes it wasn't. 00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:54.537 But we did manage to bring have summer programs for indian kids from the 00:46:54.570 --> 00:47:00.796 reservation. We did do a lot of tutoring of students who needed to be, who 00:47:00.829 --> 00:47:07.436 needed help getting through getting through school. Um 00:47:07.469 --> 00:47:14.546 Then after a year or so bob announced we were going to Kansas. 00:47:14.579 --> 00:47:21.256 My response was has taken me all this time to get my programs going. I 00:47:21.289 --> 00:47:24.626 mean you administrators can go off but I you know the people doing the 00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:30.517 work, I can't I can't just leave and I don't have time to do all of this 00:47:30.550 --> 00:47:33.637 over again before 00:47:33.670 --> 00:47:39.927 I retire. I mean I'm old, I don't have time. But Bob's mother lived in 00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:46.637 Lawrence, Bob's mother was 85 years old and this gave us an opportunity to 00:47:46.670 --> 00:47:54.670 spend the last years with this wonderful kind woman who liked me a lot who 00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:59.617 liked me a lot. I will leave off comparisons who liked me a lot. So I 00:47:59.650 --> 00:48:04.126 agreed to go but I followed followed a year later so that I could hire 00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:10.436 somebody to replace me and and so on. 00:48:10.469 --> 00:48:14.387 So is there a special person that had an impact? You mentioned chuck 00:48:14.420 --> 00:48:19.387 bacchus? Who are you thinking about that? I knew as he was the associate 00:48:19.420 --> 00:48:23.137 dean for research of the College of Engineering and Applied Sciences. 00:48:23.170 --> 00:48:27.617 Anyway, how about somebody else at a. S. U. U. Stand polytechnic? Okay. 00:48:27.650 --> 00:48:33.086 One person that I have to mention is Karen Brighton. Uh She had a master's 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:41.119 degree in some obscure thing but she couldn't get a job and so she needed 00:48:41.250 --> 00:48:49.250 a job and she answer got an ad and came into my office and 00:48:50.369 --> 00:48:54.836 You know I don't know what, she's been getting paid $6 an hour. Uh And she 00:48:54.869 --> 00:49:01.137 was wonderful. She was so good with the kids, she was so good, so kind, so 00:49:01.170 --> 00:49:08.537 smart, really understood things. And she in fact implemented most of the 00:49:08.570 --> 00:49:15.807 programs in White Mountain, she input in fact one of the great stories 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:20.157 about Karen is you know, I'm looking at the little thing on the back of 00:49:20.190 --> 00:49:24.236 the, you know, when is Karen coming back from White Mountain and I said 00:49:24.269 --> 00:49:28.887 she's supposed to be back today, isn't she? And they said yes. So I called 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:34.307 her roommate and said isn't Karen suppose? I think so, 00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:40.887 and Karen has disappeared. So we then start calling the police. Ah and we 00:49:40.920 --> 00:49:45.006 called everybody. They said, well could she have run off with them man? 00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:52.736 And you say, oh absolutely not, no not. Karen fingers crossed, you know. 00:49:52.769 --> 00:49:58.396 Ah But Karen might have done anything, but we didn't think Karen had, we 00:49:58.429 --> 00:50:02.066 thought Karen was lost out there somewhere. It took him three days to find 00:50:02.099 --> 00:50:08.356 her. She was down to two crackers, a bottle of water And she would have 00:50:08.389 --> 00:50:14.137 walked out the 20 miles. She took a shortcut, They should have walked out 00:50:14.170 --> 00:50:18.026 the 20 miles. 00:50:18.059 --> 00:50:25.017 Uh the coyotes started following her. So she decided this was not a good 00:50:25.050 --> 00:50:30.217 idea. And besides, she only had two crackers. So she stayed there. We 00:50:30.250 --> 00:50:34.927 finally, I mean they finally sent helicopters out, they finally found her. 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:40.657 And of course. Um Anyway, so that's that's a Karen story. But Karen was a 00:50:40.690 --> 00:50:46.057 very interesting and unusual person, but any rate. So she's working in my 00:50:46.090 --> 00:50:53.836 office and The first few years were basically I can't live on the $6. OK, 00:50:53.869 --> 00:50:58.247 so you raised it to seven, you know, a month goes by. She said I can't 00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:04.356 live on that, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. So finally she gets to a a 00:51:04.389 --> 00:51:10.307 reasonable amount of money. So that stops. She's a superb worker and was 00:51:10.340 --> 00:51:16.396 just absolutely great. But about once a month she'd say I can't stand it, 00:51:16.429 --> 00:51:20.436 I just can't stand being here. I can't stand being confined. I can't be, 00:51:20.469 --> 00:51:25.657 you know, I want to move on, I want to do something you say. And so about 00:51:25.690 --> 00:51:31.677 every month or two I'd say Karen, you can't do that, you don't have a 00:51:31.710 --> 00:51:37.956 retirement, you have to at least get invested, you must get invested, you 00:51:37.989 --> 00:51:41.727 have to stay here 00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:48.026 and you know, it would take me an hour or an hour and a half 00:51:48.059 --> 00:51:54.896 day after day, month after month, year after year just now. It's weird 00:51:54.929 --> 00:52:01.356 because she's an absolutely great person and was resourceful, inventive, 00:52:01.389 --> 00:52:06.316 creative and she had this one weird thing which is she wanted to move on 00:52:06.349 --> 00:52:10.137 and I got so tired of it. So one of the really good things was when I 00:52:10.170 --> 00:52:16.666 decided to leave ah A. S. U. I thought well at least I don't have to deal 00:52:16.699 --> 00:52:22.657 with Karen anymore. Thank heavens. So when I retire, when I'm at my little 00:52:22.690 --> 00:52:28.887 retirement party. She gives me this absolutely fabulously beautiful indian 00:52:28.920 --> 00:52:33.557 necklace. It must have cost a month's salary. Just fabulous on the back is 00:52:33.590 --> 00:52:38.816 engraved. So you can never forget me. 00:52:38.849 --> 00:52:46.849 Yes. So at any rate ah She she she stayed on for about 10 years. I mean 00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:52.517 without me to whine about to whine too. She took over the unit and ran 00:52:52.550 --> 00:52:59.166 everything managed to deal with lots of problems. And I counter as being 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:04.876 largely successful, largely responsible for my success is I mean she did a 00:53:04.909 --> 00:53:08.717 lot of the work. I was 00:53:08.750 --> 00:53:12.546 you know a great for her. I was a great leader. She was a great follow 00:53:12.579 --> 00:53:16.796 except for the whining and she's not one of my closest friends. I mean we 00:53:16.829 --> 00:53:20.347 really love spending time with her. I would never want to be your boss 00:53:20.380 --> 00:53:26.126 again. But she is. What were some of the special and outstanding things 00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:29.497 about those departments? You've said a lot about that but maybe you could 00:53:29.530 --> 00:53:33.796 say a little summary. Well I think that what we did for american indians 00:53:33.829 --> 00:53:41.829 was just absolutely outstanding. I mean we really did move a. S. U. Up to 00:53:42.039 --> 00:53:46.227 another level on some of those things. And there's one other little thing 00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:53.267 I had spent years reading proposals in Washington. So I had never gotten 00:53:53.300 --> 00:53:58.787 one of these myself but because I wasn't eligible but a sc was interested 00:53:58.820 --> 00:54:04.336 in applying for an I. M. S. D. That's initiative at that time was 00:54:04.369 --> 00:54:11.506 initiative for minority student development. They've changed the name now 00:54:11.539 --> 00:54:15.907 but they were trying to get one in the biology department. 00:54:15.940 --> 00:54:23.940 So that would have been Teresa and Teresa Marco Marco and Jim Collins and 00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:29.177 but I knew how I knew how the game was played, I had site visited, I knew 00:54:29.210 --> 00:54:34.526 just exactly they were gonna have a site visit and so I managed to tell 00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:39.717 them how to play the game that was with the NIH. Right. Yes these are NIH. 00:54:39.750 --> 00:54:44.706 Oh I'm sorry. Oh NIH grants. Okay. 00:54:44.739 --> 00:54:52.387 How about a notable achievement personal or otherwise? Ah I think the 00:54:52.420 --> 00:54:58.916 collaborative work with bob bob was closely involved in developing the CSU 00:54:58.949 --> 00:55:04.626 chairs and directors leadership academy. Uh in fact became the head of it. 00:55:04.659 --> 00:55:09.566 This was originally designed only for chairs and bob became the head of 00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:15.526 it and miraculously all the directors were included as well. So you have 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:23.559 60 Uh chairs and 40 directors and that group. Ah 00:55:25.340 --> 00:55:32.006 It was ah just amazing in terms of the talented developed and I'm just 00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:37.646 gonna go on and I think that A. S. U. Is is X. Has is and has been 00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:44.447 extraordinary in its ability to develop leaders. I basically learned all 00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:52.427 the skills that I needed at A. S. U. Thinking broadly managing grants and 00:55:52.460 --> 00:55:58.046 understanding american indian populations and but I did it from this 00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:03.497 perspective where you have a sort of an overarching umbrella of concepts 00:56:03.530 --> 00:56:09.617 with which with which to do it. Uh K. U. University of Kansas where we 00:56:09.650 --> 00:56:17.650 went after issue was the lucky recipient of this very sound base. Ah 00:56:21.530 --> 00:56:25.717 for both of us. I mean they really asked you really provided us the base 00:56:25.750 --> 00:56:31.447 with which we were able to be even more successful at the next place. And 00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:37.316 we have been this is now back to the leadership uh institute. We've been 00:56:37.349 --> 00:56:42.597 very proud to meet people in the leadership group over the next decades 00:56:42.630 --> 00:56:48.227 and re encounter them in positions of considerable authority elsewhere in 00:56:48.260 --> 00:56:56.260 in academia for example bob and I went to uh university of north texas to 00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:07.119 try to get funding from uh from the university for the sickness conference 00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:15.217 that was going to be held in Dallas and lo and behold Gretchen. But I what 00:57:15.250 --> 00:57:20.327 was her original department sociology properly something of the sort but 00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:23.836 anyway she was in the leadership institute with us is now president and 00:57:23.869 --> 00:57:31.546 Wendy Wilkins english was now provost. So We go in and say Hi we'd like 00:57:31.579 --> 00:57:34.197 $100,000 00:57:34.230 --> 00:57:41.847 and got it. So I mean we had some but I mean we cut some deals but but 00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:47.276 that that was for the sickness conference held in 2000 and nine. 00:57:47.309 --> 00:57:52.086 A society for the advancement of chicanos and native americans in science 00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:58.506 and it was a great conference and they were our platinum platinum sponsors. 00:57:58.539 --> 00:58:04.787 We'll come back to them. Yes. How about challenges encountered during 00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:10.577 your career. You you talked about a lot of them um Well summarizing it. I 00:58:10.610 --> 00:58:15.447 think there is a real challenge in combining being an independent 00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:22.597 professional and being a trailing spouse. Um I mean it is very difficult 00:58:22.630 --> 00:58:29.896 and it it uh the real need is to be flexible and I think being flexible, I 00:58:29.929 --> 00:58:36.967 had a great time as long as I relaxed and said it's okay, I can do it. Um 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:42.066 and I made every change that I've talked about every single change and 00:58:42.099 --> 00:58:46.197 spend a lot of time whining, I can't do it. Oh I don't want to do it, 00:58:46.230 --> 00:58:51.887 won't do it. But I was able to 00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:55.077 of all your accomplishment today Issue. What's giving you the most 00:58:55.110 --> 00:58:57.287 satisfaction? 00:58:57.320 --> 00:59:01.456 Well, creating the programs for the american indians on the reservations 00:59:01.489 --> 00:59:03.767 was 00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:08.807 something that's really pleased me a lot. And but from outsiders, I think 00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:13.597 that probably the thing that would be most impressive was I ran the 00:59:13.630 --> 00:59:18.936 sadness, the Society for Advancement of chicanos. Um and native americans 00:59:18.969 --> 00:59:24.697 . I ran their annual conference at A. S. U. In 1987. And that was a 00:59:24.730 --> 00:59:30.537 nightmare as well as whole bunch of people remember it. Welcome back to 00:59:30.570 --> 00:59:36.179 what was your outstanding memory here at the issue. In terms of a vignette. 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:39.519 I think the the single thing that probably made me happiest was Dorothy 00:59:41.369 --> 00:59:47.546 lipson was a person who had come through our programs had gotten her B. A. 00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:53.166 She's absolutely first generation first person and her family off the 00:59:53.199 --> 01:00:00.606 Navajo reservation and radical or single singled her out And her family, 01:00:00.639 --> 01:00:04.736 she must have had 20 members of the family in the audience sitting up 01:00:04.769 --> 01:00:08.657 there and they all stood up and were applauded when when she graduated. So 01:00:08.690 --> 01:00:14.367 he mentioned he she was the vignette for that just to set the stage for 01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:19.427 that in a way. Always had his two point commencement speech help others 01:00:19.460 --> 01:00:24.336 and keep learning which apparently I learned and used myself. And then the 01:00:24.369 --> 01:00:29.077 other thing he did was talk about specific examples like Dorothy lipson 01:00:29.110 --> 01:00:32.936 which is one of the real strength in his commencement speeches which were 01:00:32.969 --> 01:00:38.367 the best that I've ever heard out of Many 50's or hundreds of them. Let's 01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:43.367 see something about advice for young people. 01:00:43.400 --> 01:00:48.416 Okay. The first thing find a place that you love that appears to have the 01:00:48.449 --> 01:00:53.506 qualities that need to help you develop, find a place that will encourage 01:00:53.539 --> 01:00:56.247 you to grow 01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:00.977 and always remember that challenges 01:01:01.010 --> 01:01:06.267 and setbacks are not disasters, they are the dread opportunity for growth 01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:08.986 . 01:01:09.019 --> 01:01:13.956 I like to call those pauses between successes. Okay some of them are sort 01:01:13.989 --> 01:01:16.677 of 01:01:16.710 --> 01:01:21.477 now remembering that we're talking in large part to a S. U. R. A. What 01:01:21.510 --> 01:01:27.856 occupies your time as a retiree? Okay. I retired from stu and followed bob 01:01:27.889 --> 01:01:32.307 to the University of Kansas where I became director of american indian 01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:39.137 outreach. I reported to the provost and had a job assignment of doing good 01:01:39.170 --> 01:01:46.717 for indians one of bob's I mean it's a great job description. Uh One of 01:01:46.750 --> 01:01:52.796 bob's jokes is that when they had decided they would make him vp for 01:01:52.829 --> 01:01:59.166 research. Uh You know they said do you have any goats and canoes? Do you 01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:04.686 have any people you have to bring? And he said I have a wife who's 01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:10.227 american indian and you would have to know the provost. The provost always 01:02:10.260 --> 01:02:16.486 sits like this that that particular provost at any rate. And according to 01:02:16.519 --> 01:02:24.519 bob he sat up and then he became the trailing spouse. So that's the way I 01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:32.960 tell the story. Well uh so during this time During the last 14 years I've 01:02:33.079 --> 01:02:38.006 worked closely with high school in donations university who we met through 01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:42.787 the Ace Tech things. So the same president is still there, it provided a 01:02:42.820 --> 01:02:48.146 nice little entree to an institution that's not very easy to get into. Uh 01:02:48.179 --> 01:02:54.077 so I worked with Haskell and K. U. and in 14 years I'm still working for 01:02:54.110 --> 01:02:59.617 them. I have man I have helped bring in about $25 million dollars uh of 01:02:59.650 --> 01:03:05.577 funds through programs. Now this is the first the proposal I have ever 01:03:05.610 --> 01:03:13.267 written. I won't tell you how old I was but very old but that isn't the 01:03:13.300 --> 01:03:20.217 barrier to doing stuff. So I wrote a proposal to these are all NIH grants. 01:03:20.250 --> 01:03:25.227 They are all but but anyway so I wrote bridges to the baccalaureate, the 01:03:25.260 --> 01:03:29.577 I. M. S. D. Which is now called initiative for maximizing student 01:03:29.610 --> 01:03:34.227 development because you can't have minorities in a title anymore. Uh The 01:03:34.260 --> 01:03:39.856 rise which is research initiative for scientific enhancement, the Iraq to 01:03:39.889 --> 01:03:45.267 the institutional research and academic career development award, prep 01:03:45.300 --> 01:03:51.646 postbaccalaureate research education program. And all of these have been 01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:55.427 funded and refunded 01:03:55.460 --> 01:04:03.460 some of them Up to four times. And I'm currently writing the I. M. S. The 01:04:03.909 --> 01:04:11.657 revision of the MSD. I retired from K. U. But continue to serve as senior 01:04:11.690 --> 01:04:17.626 advisor for all the programs I developed. 01:04:17.659 --> 01:04:22.456 In addition I've been active in sadness again. The society for the 01:04:22.489 --> 01:04:27.916 advancement of chicanos and native americans in science Since 19 the 1980s. 01:04:27.949 --> 01:04:33.186 After I came to a S. U. I became a member of the board of directors. Put 01:04:33.219 --> 01:04:38.537 together the 1987 sickness annual national conference. I became the 01:04:38.570 --> 01:04:45.256 president of Sagna's in 2004 - 2007. And I have since served on the board. 01:04:45.289 --> 01:04:49.896 I'm now I'm getting keep getting kicked upstairs. I'm now a member of 01:04:49.929 --> 01:04:54.776 cosa. The council of senior advisers on sickness and serve as a 01:04:54.809 --> 01:05:00.796 representative to the board. I'm also the P. I. On the Current Sadness $5 01:05:00.829 --> 01:05:06.197 Million Grant. I think I actually wrote that one with my own tiny hands 01:05:06.230 --> 01:05:10.657 and I am a p. I on the pending Sagna's $8 million dollar grant and I 01:05:10.690 --> 01:05:18.017 didn't have to write nearly as much of that. Uh Both bob and I are mentors 01:05:18.050 --> 01:05:25.347 of the sadness summer leadership institute. This is held in Washington D. 01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:32.907 C. Every july and our appreciation for a sus leadership training strongly 01:05:32.940 --> 01:05:38.157 influenced our appreciate our appreciation for the value of such efforts. 01:05:38.190 --> 01:05:43.276 So we had been through these leadership things it sort of permeates your 01:05:43.309 --> 01:05:48.517 consciousness and when you see an opportunity to do something you this was 01:05:48.550 --> 01:05:53.876 the thing that we tried to do. I developed I developed a specific concept 01:05:53.909 --> 01:06:00.256 and developed obtained funding through sicknesses big conference grant 30 01:06:00.289 --> 01:06:05.316 individuals each year and three tracks postdoc early career and mid career 01:06:05.349 --> 01:06:11.526 and I always joke I'm mid career so we take anybody who is seems to have 01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:18.776 any life left in them. Um The institute is enormously successful and it's 01:06:18.809 --> 01:06:22.637 a big favorite of funders. You know everybody is saying how can we get in 01:06:22.670 --> 01:06:30.256 on the leadership institute action. So we're and we're now planning to 01:06:30.289 --> 01:06:33.807 visit to D. C. Where we're going to be trying to I said you don't go in 01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:38.327 with no ideas what would be a great idea and so I've forgotten what it was 01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:46.360 but somebody hopefully wrote it down. Um Well somebody it will happen. Yes 01:06:48.380 --> 01:06:56.046 amusingly enough bob became vice president for 01:06:56.079 --> 01:07:01.447 science policy and strategic initiatives for science for sickness. I'm 01:07:01.480 --> 01:07:08.416 sorry a title based on his title from provost click at A. S. U. Which is 01:07:08.449 --> 01:07:13.256 sort of amusing another I think it's an amusing story although the other 01:07:13.289 --> 01:07:18.236 four of you may not. So when it is announced that they're going to hire 01:07:18.269 --> 01:07:24.867 bob as the new vice president, everybody who knows him says oh great he's 01:07:24.900 --> 01:07:31.936 been so good, he's blah blah wonderful. One person hasn't doesn't know him. 01:07:31.969 --> 01:07:37.416 Goes up on the web finds a picture and says you but does he have to be so 01:07:37.449 --> 01:07:39.546 white? 01:07:39.579 --> 01:07:46.646 Let me add that with something from you. They, 01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:51.947 so okay let me say a little bit more about that since you started that 01:07:51.980 --> 01:07:55.376 that is they never had a vice president for anything and they wanted to 01:07:55.409 --> 01:07:59.657 have a presence established in Washington D. C. And also learn about 01:07:59.690 --> 01:08:04.646 science policy as it affected stock knossos goals. And through my work 01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:08.077 starting at A. S. U. I became concerned about the future high tech 01:08:08.110 --> 01:08:12.796 workforce namely that we should have won and particularly composed of our 01:08:12.829 --> 01:08:18.746 own citizens. So that started here and as in has become the vehicle for us 01:08:18.779 --> 01:08:22.296 to work together on on this activity. 01:08:22.329 --> 01:08:26.137 Start talking about your awards for which I'm the designated back man. 01:08:26.170 --> 01:08:32.847 Okay I have started receiving lifetime awards including pays meme which is 01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:37.237 the presidential award for excellence in science, mathematics and 01:08:37.270 --> 01:08:41.987 Engineering mentoring awarded in the Oval Office by President Obama in 01:08:42.020 --> 01:08:50.020 January 2011 pomona college. I had no idea how rich Pomona College was. 01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:54.456 They have more money than God. I mean that's just amazing. Oh sorry 01:08:54.489 --> 01:09:00.336 awarded me an honorary degree in May 2012 01:09:00.369 --> 01:09:04.977 and the University of California riverside made me their distinguished 01:09:05.010 --> 01:09:13.010 alumnus in september In October 2012. Um The Pay's meme award specifically 01:09:14.989 --> 01:09:21.977 cited american activities at both A. S. U. And K. U. 01:09:22.010 --> 01:09:28.496 Much of, much of my time is devoted to collecting art. Especially american 01:09:28.529 --> 01:09:34.416 indian art. This is very important to me both because it supports 01:09:34.449 --> 01:09:38.107 excellent american indian artists, but because it helps me beautify my 01:09:38.140 --> 01:09:44.336 home. So bob is always saying you haven't adopted him to have you? You say 01:09:44.369 --> 01:09:52.369 yes. I mean for example, I've adopted Penny Singer who Yes a wonderful 01:09:53.470 --> 01:09:58.576 fabric artist. But we have 26 paintings by the same artist in the bedroom 01:09:58.609 --> 01:10:01.916 and one of those jackets appears in the paceman picture with the 01:10:01.949 --> 01:10:07.177 president's arm around her. So that's not so bad. Uh You talked about 01:10:07.210 --> 01:10:10.727 beautifying the home, how about comments in areas that we haven't covered. 01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:18.326 Okay we live in three places. We live in phoenix. Uh We have a condo in 01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:24.387 just outside of Washington D. C. And we have a cabin in southern Utah uh 01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:32.420 near Capitol reef national park when we left. Um Now we'll give the plight 01:10:32.619 --> 01:10:37.307 version when we left in 1998. I refused to sell the Phoenix House because 01:10:37.340 --> 01:10:43.366 I always wanted to return here and it's great. I mean you say we we want 01:10:43.399 --> 01:10:47.687 to be where it's nice and warm and we have a lifetime of friends at A. S. 01:10:47.720 --> 01:10:54.156 U. And this is a great place to be. We participate in A. S. U. R. A. 01:10:54.189 --> 01:10:59.567 Events in the emeritus college events, bob occasionally gets little 01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:06.256 offices and so on. Nobody wants me but we continue to mentor many people 01:11:06.289 --> 01:11:11.656 including some faculty at A. S. U. And we are trying to get more. Yes we 01:11:11.689 --> 01:11:15.277 have lots of K. You people in the leadership institute. We're trying to 01:11:15.310 --> 01:11:20.126 get more A. S. You people into the leadership institute. 01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:25.696 And I wanted to mention about President growth. We met we know President 01:11:25.729 --> 01:11:32.206 Crow quite well. Uh He consulted for S. You from Colombia with promises. 01:11:32.239 --> 01:11:37.296 Glick and bob. And we used to he still says are you still doing puzzles 01:11:37.329 --> 01:11:40.756 on the floor of your living room? You know when we when we bump into him 01:11:40.789 --> 01:11:46.647 in Costco another place. So at any rate he still remembers us. Anything 01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:51.256 else that you'd like to add? I don't think so. There's one tiny thing all 01:11:51.289 --> 01:11:56.796 that and that is we wrote an article together that has a issue connections 01:11:56.829 --> 01:12:01.317 in the book edited by Roland Hayden, the Dean that brought me here and 01:12:01.350 --> 01:12:07.036 Jeannie brink and in the humanities on how to strengthen research and 01:12:07.069 --> 01:12:11.166 universities. And our topic was how to strengthen research as a 01:12:11.199 --> 01:12:18.826 departmental chair. And I reread it last night and it still applies 01:12:18.859 --> 01:12:20.859 terrific.Thanks