I'm Ed Sylvester at professor in the walter Cronkite school. I am Conrad
Store ad. And So back to 1980 I'm working at the Barberton Herald. Ronald
Reagan gets elected president and a lot of people remember the first
Reagan recession. That's what we called it. In northeast Ohio the rust
belt. It's a lot of the factories closed down. People were losing their
jobs and I was running this little newspaper or we were bought out by
another group and so everybody lost their jobs. So of course, what do you
do you go to graduate school? I then did my research and found out that
Arizona State University was starting a masters degree in Journalism and
it was designed for people who had worked in the media we wanted to come
back and further their education. Just what I was looking for. Got ahold
of Doug Anderson who was running the program at that time and became the
first director of the Cronkite school. Later he was insistent he kept
calling and he wanted me to be a teaching assistant. That brought me to
Arizona was assigned to be read Sylvester's assistant as a teaching
teaching assistant.
But by the end of 1983 you became one of the first three of our master's
graduates and immediately went off to a very prestigious fellowship right
in the area you were interested in. And where was that at the National
Cancer Institute in Bethesda Maryland at the National Institutes of Health.
So I had an internship as a science medical writer, which is what my
whole degree program was geared towards Science journalism. And so I got
to spend almost a year in Bethesda working for the federal government was
a very interesting place to be. And I happened to be there Through the
beginning of 1984 when the AIDS virus was discovered was identified and it
was a National Cancer Institute scientist that actually made that
discovery. So I was part of the Office of Cancer Communications and was
part of the teams that had to write press releases about. We know what
this this disease is now, what's causing it. And it just happened at that
time. Albert Saban was there. Albert Saban who had discovered the oral
polio vaccine. He was in his 80s then and he had been working on a aerosol
vaccine for measles. And there had been a little lab accident and he had
inhaled some of this. And Ironically he was paralyzed from the waist down.
Here's a man who had helped so many people avoid paralysis through polio
and here he is. In his 80s, he's paralyzed well, he eventually recovered
and he was actually there doing his recovery and the park area outside NIH
has never been there beautiful campus wooded area. And so he was sitting
on a park bench outside the clinical center. I was walking with a friend
of mine who worked at the cancer institute had cerebral policy. So he had
a withered arm and withered leg and he points out to me. So you see that
guy over on the on the bench because that's Albert Saban. He said no. He
said yeah. He said Albert Sabin polio vaccine. Albert saving because yeah
, nobel laureate. Albert Sabban says, yeah, because let's go talk to him
so we can't go talk to Albert Saban, can we go down? Let's go talk to him.
So we walked over and he saw my friend and he said, are you one of my
Children thinking that he had been a polio victim? He said no, no, I had
cp. And what do you what do you guys do? What sit down with me, sit down
with me and we explained what we did that we were science writers. And he
wanted to know how do you like working with some of the scientists here at
and my age, I said, well, you know, it's interesting but there's a lot of
big egos here and a lot of them are not very helpful for me to do my job.
And he said Conrad and he was calling me Conrad right away said Conrad,
let me give you some advice. He said if everyone who was writing about
science had to have a PhD in science, there would not be very much science
writing done now, would there. So yeah. And he said, let me tell you this
when you're working with a scientist or a researcher. If they cannot
explain to you in words, you can understand what it is they're doing they
don't know what the hell they're doing. I've never forgotten that it was
when interviewing scientists and you're not putting people up on a
pedestal, you're trying to get information because you're trying to tell a
story to a lay audience in words they can understand. So doing your job as
a translator in a in a way.
What did you feel were the biggest challenges that s you collectively I
was facing during the time that you were here? Well, the the one that was
just overwhelming when we first came was that we weren't too many years
from achieving the university status and we've just been offering doctoral
degrees about a decade. Faculty member from the U. Of A. Was the head of
the appropriations committee and the legislature tom Goodwin. And so our
poor presidents just had an awful uphill fight. The Board of Regents was
stacked with you of a people. They weren't quietly you of a people. They
were overtly you of a people and they would tell the CSU presidents the U.
Of A. Is the main university and that's the one we're going to support
and you and I know you will get what get what we can get you. But so it
was a struggle because we had the students, we had the growth in any kind
of a funding comparison the U. Of A. Was so much better off. It was
unbelievable now over the years, the board and the Legislature fussed
around with that and made a few adjustments. But I'll bet if you look
today the funding for student in equivalent programs is still stacked in
the direction. So that that was always a problem. And it's been
astonishing to me just how that has changed in terms of, I think the
legislature and the board it's much more balanced and way more favorable
to issue than it ever was and it was a struggle because every time we want
to introduce a new program, you they would say we're already doing it, so
we don't need to in the state or we were just about to do it. Uh And so
let us do it or we could do it better or the A. S. A. S. You really isn't
staffed up to do that. In fact, when we got our interdisciplinary PhD
program, chuck Wolfe worked with me because he wanted it to be an
unimpeachable proposal, He didn't want it coming back at us and having the
U. Of a say it. And so he felt like when we went forward with the proposal
with three people from chemistry, three from biology to from psychology to
from engineering, one from nutrition and then the dozen from our
department. Um they couldn't they couldn't say we're about to do that and
what we can do it better and so on and they didn't, and so it went through
and, you know, without a hitch, but but it was a struggle, that is for all
the things that we proposed and tried
and then as the microcomputer started to develop, um there was of course
two schools of thought, those that thought it was a fun toy and we
shouldn't be wasting our time on it. And those that thought maybe it was
gonna be something, the industry was still sorting itself out, um there
were lots of different brands Commodores and all other kinds of, remember
all kinds of computers with funny names to us now. And then IBM got in and
um decided that they were gonna, that it was gonna be serious, they had a
separate division in boca raton florida for microcomputers, one of the
most, you know, interesting times for me was when uh this would be in 1986
the summer of 1986 early in the spring, IBM came out with an offer that if
we could put together a deal for 500 microcomputers, we could get them at
a very much reduced price, which I think, I don't know for sure, but
looking back, I'm guessing we were paying $3000 a computer and we were
getting, you know, that would be what the microbes work, we're costing in
those days instead of what they cost now weigh less and I think we could
get them for a couple of 1000 if we Put this order of 500, well, that just
seemed impossible, I decided I was going to try and that one of the ways I
would try to do it would I would be I would try to collaborate with U of A
and N au. I was allowed to do that. And if they would buy in and we could
pull that and get 100 then everybody would get the prize. N au said they'd
like to join. But of course you have a they were too good for us and they
told me absolutely not. They thought it was stupid and that they didn't
think micro computers, this is the head of their computing services. But I
managed, I called all the at that time I was on Dean's Council and I was
able to work with the Deans and the department chairs and get the order
put together. We we let each person really have a custom configuration. It
was probably something of a mistake. We really didn't know what we were
doing. They all came in And we were trying to get them set up for the fall
of 1986 before classes started Darryl ash brock and his crew was unpacking
this truck full of stuff and there was just, there were parts and boxes
absolutely everywhere, all outside the building. We had it all cleared up
for several days and his guys worked on that took him the whole summer.
And as a side note the guy that you've got fired for it. he lost his job
because
yeah,
john swallow was president when I started working in my full time staff
position. My boss of course was Carl Dannon felt and he was the academic
vice president. It was a small office, there were just four of us. Carl he
had one assistant, his secretary who was normal roads and myself. So it
was just really a mom and pop shop at the time, their normal retired and I
was promoted into her job. So I took a giant leap were very quickly in my
career and was assistant to the academic vice President and Continued in
that role through eight vice presidents or provosts. Actually one of them
, I worked for three times. Elmer Gooding, he was acting or interim um
provost for Academic vice president several times, but I only counted him
once. A lot page Mulholland and paige was came from outside the university.
My position changed a little bit then because he hired someone to be a
secretary and I became more of a um executive coordinator type and helped
with the budget and that kind of thing. Age was really all business in the
fast mover Kinzinger. He was a mover and a shaker. He immediately, one of
the first things he did, I remember was I was trying to get us involved
with some kind of a program in Mauritania. The research park was one of
the things that he has reigned that he was responsible for, pushed to get
that and it was big and everybody thought, you know, this is never gonna
work, It's you know, it's not going to support itself and I think it was
probably touch and go there for a while. Of course now we know that it's
doing well. Roland. Hayden Roland had been the dean of the Engineering
college was asked to take the position. People were terrified of him at
first because he had a reputation of being very stern. All business was
sometimes a temper. But I never found that to be true. I found him to be
kindhearted and easy to work with. Richard peck was provost really for
just one year and he was here a second year, but the second year he was
acting president. So those were part of the times when Elmer Gooding. It
was in and out of our Milk Glick when he was interviewed. I remember that
was we had so many provosts and in the interview people were asking him,
well how long will you stay? So he promised he would stay at least five
years And he ended up staying 15. He was a great great um provost in my
mind, one of the best that I think we've ever had. He he got a lot of
things going that were, had sort of been on hold because nothing had been
happening when we have a provost for, you know, one year, two years acting
here going, He got the faculty involved in administration. Got their
confidence was active with the Senate. One of his goals was to increase
enrollment and boy Diddy and all the deans of course report to the provost.
A lot of the vice president's reported to the provost. He was very
involved with president core And then later President Crow, when Michael
came in as a matter of fact, Michael was a consultant that Milt brought to
campus for a couple of years before Michael became president here. So we
interacted with um, Mike when he came to visit on his consulting business
with Milt, they were colleagues before in Iowa Elmer and melt. They were
so fair to people that was up most I think when they were, when they were
dealing in hard situations always had in mind what was fair to the
employee, whether it's a faculty member or a staff member at the work
styles, they included me, I was more of a confidante, um, a right hand
person. So one of the best parts about it is that you see the big picture
and you know, where the skeletons are and you know, things that you never
tell but they really did include me. Milt especially gave me a more
responsibility. He turned over the office to me to be director of the
office in addition to being assistant to him. And so I had sort of two
hats under his regime, which was kind of
of all your accomplishment today issue. What's giving you the most
satisfaction? Well creating the programs for the american indians on the
reservations and but from outsiders I think that probably the thing that
would be most impressive was I ran the sickness, the society for
advancement of chicanos. Um and native Americans. I ran their annual
conference at a. s. U. in 1987 and that was a nightmare as well as whole
bunch of people remember it was your outstanding memory here. In terms of
I think the the single thing that probably made me happiest was Dorothy
lipson was a person who had come through our programs had gotten her B. A.
She's absolutely first generation, the first person in her family off the
Navajo reservation laddie course singled her out And her family and she
must have had 20 members of the family in the audience sitting up there
and they all stood up and were applauded when, when she graduated what
occupies your time as a retiree. I retired from stu and followed bob to
the university of Kansas where I became director of american indian
outreach. I reported to the provost and had a job assignment of doing good
for indians. I mean it's a great job description. One of bob's jokes is
that when they have decided they would make him vP for research, you know
, they said, do you have any goats and canoes. Do you have any people you
have to bring? And he said, I have a wife who's american indian and you
would have to know the provost. The provost always sits like this that
that particular provost at any rate. And according to bob he sat up and
then he became the trailing spouse. So that's the way I tell the story
during this time, During the last 14 years. I'm still working for them. I
have man, I have helped bring in about $25 million dollars of funds
through programs. These are all NIH grants. They are all and all of these
have been funded and refunded some of them Up to four times. Start talking
about your awards for which I am the designated back then. Okay, I have
started receiving lifetime awards including pays meme which is the
presidential award for excellence in science, mathematics and Engineering
mentoring awarded in the Oval Office by President Obama in January 2011
Pomona College awarded me an honorary degree in May 2012. The University
of California Riverside. Made me their distinguished alumnus. Much of my
time is devoted to collecting art, especially american indian art. This is
very important to me both because it supports excellent american indian
artists. But because it helps me beautify my home. So bob is always saying
you haven't adopted him to have you you say yes. I mean for example I have
adopted Penny Singer who? It's uh a wonderful fabric artist But we have 26
paintings by the same artist in the bedroom. And one of those jackets
appears in the picture with the president's arm around her.
And there was the name change was coming. A big effort to try to change A
. S. C. To an A. S. U. And it was going to be a public vote. So there is
this desire for visibility. So somebody said, what can we do, what could
you do? And so I intended the sewer club and broadcast from in front of
the engineering center out of the steam pipe tunnels
and gave away free cigarettes and and free records, which of course
created a crowd. And then I told a buddy who works at Channel 12 and he
told somebody there
and they were out filming it and it was going to be on on NBC National.
You know one of those end of the news, those funny things people do out
there. And mrs Gammage, the President's wife, Kay Gammage found out about
it. And and I mean, she was just what if this is the only thing they ever
know about it? We can't let them know we live in sewers. We've got to stop
it. And I mean they They all went to channel 12 at once. And so channel 12
got it canceled.
This is the Catherine damage stories. It was magic by sally y I Catherine
damage was the second wife and widow of Grady Gammage. I had never met her
but I told I was told about how loyal she was how active she was. He was
on the payroll at A. S. U. How enthusiastic she was about everything.
Never matter about time I was getting ready to retire. I was at three
different social gatherings and each time she asked me to invite her out
to lunch. Well the first time I thought she was just being polite about
this about the third time I said I'd better take it seriously. She was
living at an apartment in Friendship Village retirement community so I
went to pick her up and this sally y and that's her legal name. She want
to make sure I understood that about her and to find my quote here she
wrote this book. And Catherine Gammage and she were at a book signing in
the Memorial of the Union and I was invited to go to that. I had this book
sally showed me one particular page and I won't read the whole thing. But
this is a quote
big print entitled the mystery man, friday lunch date. I have a date with
a mystery man. Maybe I made it up. I've done it before. Maybe they forgot
they made a date with me. Oh he's here. My mystery man. I'll say it's good
to see you. I've been looking forward to this whole week. And that sounded
like the Catherine damage that I'd heard about sally told me at that point
She said when Catherine Gammage was looking forward to waiting for me to
come, she said I got a lunch date with somebody. I don't know who it is
but it must be a man because I got a headache. Yeah.
And we had a delightful lunch.