WEBVTT

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Good morning. Today is March one 2000 and 12 we are conducting an

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interview for the Arizona State
University retirees Association video

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history project. We are located today
in the A. S. U. Community Services

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building. I am Jill, D Michael and the
technical support staff today

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include roger carter and Dave Schatz
lee. Also in attendance with us is

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linda Vance coy. Chair of the A. S. U.
R. A video history project. I'm

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going to introduce you now to our
honoree linda Wells, former head

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softball coach at Arizona State
University linda. Yes, hi, hi Jill and

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thank you for conducting the interview
Children. Michael, My name is Linda

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Wells. I was the softball coach at
Arizona State University between 1989

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and 2005

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linda. I first met you when I was
fortunate enough to be the chair of the

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search committee that brought you to
the sun devils. Um but before that a

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lot happened. Can you begin with
describing your early life and your

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interest in sports? Yes, yeah, we
share um so many things in common Jill,

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so I'm so thankful that you're here to
do the interview both of us, uh you

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know midwest girls and I grew up in
pacific Missouri about 30 miles west

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of ST louis. I was born december 13th
1949 in Washington Missouri and my

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family lived in pacific Missouri. My
birth allowed me to join my older

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brother ken and then we were soon
followed by my sister marty. So my

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family lived in pacific and I was also
so fortunate to have um both sets

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of grandparents that also lived in
pacific. So we were great support um as

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a family and most of our, I would say
athletic and social life revolved

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around the neighborhood and also the
school environment

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in your early years growing up where
you did, you were very encouraged to

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participate in sports. This is unusual
for many of us of our age group. Um

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Could you describe your environment
and why growing up in Missouri was so

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different than where I grew up in
Illinois and wasn't encouraged in sports

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and I I think we didn't realize I
didn't realize this until I of course

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became older and exposed to women from
across the country, but um I I

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think I had several things growing up
that kind of were going my way in

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terms of athletics, one my parents
were very young and they were very

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energetic and we would kind of have
olympic competitions. For example, my

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dad would decide, let's put a clay
court in the backyard, so we would do

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the work to construct a clay tennis
court and then we would learn tennis

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and we would play tennis and have fun
and then we'd say all right, that's

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enough of tennis, let's do broad jump
and high jump and basketball and all

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the different sports and um the other
thing that was happening is that we

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lived in a little dirt road in a small
town pacific at the time, great

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place to grow up, Lots of open fields
so you could run across the road

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literally and jump on the back of the
mule and have a ride or horse ride

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or milk the cows or whatever was going
on. And next door lived my five

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cousins now I matched up with Alan, we
were the same age, so there's Don

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allen mike, Dennison wayne and that's
what we did was play outside. The

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rule was see you later play outside,
there'll be an announcement for

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dinner and that's when you reappear
indoors. So we played everything and

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we were joined by, you know john
Curtis and gary dale and as you can

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imagine, I was right in there with all
of the boys playing all the sports

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and when my mother as she frequently
would would say, I don't think you

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should do that. My dad would be there
to say let her do it if she wants to

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do it. So I look back and realize how
it must have been difficult for him.

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He must have had to swallow a few
times along the way, but was very

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encouraging and my mother was out
there a lot of times participating, you

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know, especially we did the archery
unit and both of my parents became

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very engaged in that we did family
bowling and they all bold on leagues

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and so I think I just kind of by
example and by the activity of the family

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was always around sports now by the
time I was six it became clear that

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something needed to give because I was
gonna want to play on the boy's

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baseball team. And so my father and
other members of the community started

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the quarry league for girls and I
played cory league softball, followed by

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what we then called town softball and
played with my sister and you know

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the girls that were around in grade
school and high school and then by

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high school we had organized sport
teams in volleyball, basketball and

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softball. So it gave me just another
opportunity. So I was a cheerleader

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for the boys teams and then I was a
participant in the, in the high school

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activities and um and loved high
school and you know played in the band. I

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love doing everything. I love being
student council and debate and speech

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and I think because it was such a
small rural environment, they were

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always happy for everyone who wanted
to to participate. The social

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activities of the community revolved
around the school and you went on to

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college and continued that passion for
sports. Um so could you talk a

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little bit about, I can, there's one
more story that I want to mention. My

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dad had played basketball in high
school and Ben, um something of an

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athlete himself. He was coached at the
time by her baker who in addition

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to being a physical education teacher
at pacific was also a very good

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men's major picture and he lived kind
of down the street, you know, he had

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a couple of sons and they were all
very excellent fast pitch softball

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players. And one day I think I'm like
12, there's a knock at the door and

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it's mr baker and he's talking to my
father and saying and I think you

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your daughter has some talent, she
should be going into the city, which

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meant ST louis, Which at that time was
30 miles away, a great distance to

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travel. He didn't just go into the
city, but he encouraged my dad to put

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me on um A. S. A. Teams and the more
elite teams. And so I left the town

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team environment and I began to engage
in Women's sports at the women's

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major club level. So at age 12 I'm
playing on these women's teams in ST

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Louis, starting with softball, but
then expanding the basketball and field

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hockey and a number of other sports.
And this was well before the Time

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when there was aged group. So at 12
you got out there and maybe the next

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youngest person was 28 and you just
set the bench and learned the game and

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learned your spot and and that's how
you grew into playing sports. So I

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had a lot of sport experience before I
actually went to college um

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I chose Southeast Missouri State in
Cape Gerardo Missouri. And in

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reflection I'm always so glad I did
because it was an era as you know,

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before women's athletic scholarships,
It was pre title nine. It was at a

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time when the professional women in
physical education, we're kind of

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divided. There were a number of women
who thought, you know, women, let's

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give them the chance to play on teams.
And there were athletic teams that

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I played on in college. But there were
also the women who were the

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professionals and mentor who were
still going with, you know, not too much.

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It might be too much for them to run
full court and basketball and it

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might and meanwhile a lot of us coming
in, we were already doing all those

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things. So I think we were kind of
that not that there weren't women

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athletes, but I think at the college
level, this was the beginning of the

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beginning of the thrust for equity and
sports. From what I know about

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title nine, I would definitely agree
with you. In fact, most athletic

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departments were men's departments and
the women's extra mural sports

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association was where the women joined
and played and often the

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competition wasn't at the same kind of
level. It was more like intramural

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but with schools outside of your
universities. Um, you Also played

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multiple sports, which in this decade,
2012 now is very unusual for a

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woman student athlete in college to
play more than one sport. Can you talk

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about that opportunity? Yes, I played,
you know, volleyball and basketball

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and softball in high school. And of
course I didn't realize it was unusual

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and so when I went to college I played
field hockey, volleyball,

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basketball, tennis and softball um as
a collegiate athlete and not

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thinking anything of it. Um The
coaches were very agreeable to working my

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schedules and putting me in the
competitions they chose. I just I loved

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playing, was happy to play, willing to
play in whatever practice or

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competition they wanted me to appear
in and at the same time was by now

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driving back and forth the 100 miles
to ST louis too often play in a. S. A.

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Softball. Um U S V B A. Volleyball au
basketball.

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And it just felt like that's what you
should do. The opportunities were

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there to play. So did your friends
also participate as actively as you did

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? I would say, No, I would say most of
the college Women were in one or 2

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sports there. I I think it was
probably an exception to be in five and

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they would also maybe participate in a
single sport in the city. But we

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had great athletes at the college
level. And I remember then it was kind

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of the beginning of beginning to meet
great athletes from other schools,

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from other states, from other areas.
So I found my life kind of expanding

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from pacific first to ST louis then
throughout Missouri and then other

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states as we would commonly travel
there, especially with s a women's

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major softball. Um and my parents were
right along, you know, my youngest

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sister Jody Jody was born when I was a
freshman in college. And so she

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lived her little baby life in the
stroller under the bleachers while, you

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know, and it was another thing that I
would mention, I really appreciated

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about my parents. They were parents,
they love to come, they love to watch.

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Um my dad would always, you know,
play, we're willing to play catch with

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me, throw the ball, go to high school,
hit it, but never wanted to intrude

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on my ability to be coached by other
people. I remember as a very young

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player, maybe eight or nine coming
home and saying why I'm gonna quit this

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team. And I'm, you know, I got
somebody else asked me to play and he goes

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, mm hmm, well you can quit. He goes,
go ahead, He goes, but just know if

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you quit, you're you'll never play for
another team. I was like, what do

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you mean? They want me to play on this
team? So he's very good about these

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lessons that included, you know, the
things that we hope we bring along in

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coaching the sportsmanship and I can
see how he would, you know, we would

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be in the car and I would be all
about, you know, how well I had played

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and he'd go, well I remember in the
third ending, there was this foul tip

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and you touched it with your glove. I
if you can touch the ball can't you

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catch it and you know, I'd spend the
next week going, what ball was that

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and how could I improve and I could
just, you know, I can feel him, he was

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, he was helping to push me without
being pushy and I look back and really

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appreciate now the role that my
parents have played and my family as well

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throughout my athletic career, I was
going to ask you to tell us that

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story. I remember you talking about it
when you spoke to some young girls

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in Arcadia little League, talking
about how you were kind of impressed

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with yourself and your play that day
and your dad gently made a point

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about a play, you could have done
better and that he was always trying to

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encourage you to look a little deeper
um, in, in your performance, in your

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play in a, in a kind way, but to, to
excel in all aspects, being able to

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look back at what a positive
experience that was because I do think, and

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especially when you're from a small
town and you have a little talent, it

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looks like a big talent in a little
town and so as you, you know, kind of

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, as the pond gets bigger, you know,
the ducks get bigger too, so it has

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been um just so important to me to
have that support and I think to be

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able to appreciate it for, for
example, in college, you know, we, a lot of

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times the people that were working
with you as a college athlete were, you

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know, dance people or people that were
there to teach team sports or

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individual sports, they, there wasn't
coaching preparation and I have been

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so proud of my relationship with my
past coaches, you know, I'm still in

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touch with my high school coach and my
college coaches and I'm just so

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honored to have played for them um and
and realize how much time and

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energy and especially after you get
into the profession that you know, it

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takes to give a team or to develop a
talent level. Did that influence your

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choice then to become a coach? I think
it did not, I think um coaching was

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not a career option really, I think
going in

00:16:15.940 --> 00:16:23.940
preparing for a career, going to
school was nurse teacher. Mhm I think I

00:16:24.830 --> 00:16:32.707
was the nurse teacher years and I
chose teacher and then I prepared in

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with a physical education major and I
love science, so I did chemistry and

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biology as miners wished I could have
done music, wished I could have done

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lots of other things that I was
interested in, completed my undergrad, did

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my student teaching and went, whoops,
there's no way I will be a physical

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education teacher in a public school,
it was just so not a fit, but it did

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press me then because of course now
you're at the age, what are you going

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to do? You know, and we as we all face
that coming out of college, that

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what's next? So I decided what would
be next for me would be graduate

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school. So I applied, I sort of wanted
to go to Oregon, I didn't hear from

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them but heard from and got offers
from several schools, but decided my

00:17:29.299 --> 00:17:35.806
best offer was the University of
Minnesota. So I went there to do

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um exercise physiology and thank you.

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My graduate assistantship was to teach
in the physical education

00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:50.907
department and also work in the
exercise physiology lab, that was my

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assignment. And at the first staff
meeting they said we are paying people

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two part time coach, some of the
women's teams, so anyone interested. So

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they said money, my hand went up, of
course you're, you know, you're

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living, I think my graduate
assistantship for the year was $2400 then, So

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the extra $600 that you were going to
get to head coach basketball, it

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looked great and then it was big money
at the time, so that's how I came

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about to have an entry into coaching
and when I did it, it was a fit, you

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know, it was that here is the
profession that matches the passion that

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goes along with the experience and it
was my awareness that I had this

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experience, you know, now all the
hours of playing in the neighborhood and

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being on the high school teams and
playing in women's major ball and

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driving and you know, giving up other
activities to be an athlete.

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I could see where that

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it was such an advantage probably to
most of my peer group at the time.

00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:20.246
Well, today's coaches specialize in,
they are the head coach of basketball

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or softball or volleyball and it's
year round and often coaching in the

00:19:24.190 --> 00:19:29.867
summer for pan american games or other
usa teams or something. But in your

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early days of coaching, tell us how
many sports you coached in one year.

00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:39.566
This, so this was Minnesota now and
I'm doing my graduate work. So I'm

00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:43.427
taking classes, I'm working in the
lab, I'm teaching activity classes and

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I'm the head coach for volleyball,
basketball and softball. Yes, I figured

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it was some kind of multitasking

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trailblazing beginning because you
were everywhere um in the classroom, a

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mentor from your graduate students,
I'm sure, um as their teacher and then

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also as the coach and then your first
full time coaching position. Could

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you tell us about that and how many
sports you coached after graduate

00:20:13.029 --> 00:20:17.627
school? Yes, it was so exciting. And,
and this would be the great time to

00:20:17.660 --> 00:20:25.660
interject Its title nine now. So this
is the beginning of that entire

00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:35.076
Experience of Title nine. The feminist
movement, women's liberation. It is

00:20:35.109 --> 00:20:42.887
all of those wrapped up into one and
it's playing itself out clearly on

00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:50.617
the college campuses and very
exclusively in ways with women's athletics.

00:20:50.650 --> 00:20:53.407
So

00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:59.607
women's athletics is beginning to be
identified as an entity separate from

00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.786
just whatever the pe teachers want to
get together and throw together for

00:21:04.819 --> 00:21:12.437
competition. It's being organized.
There's the newly formed Association of

00:21:12.470 --> 00:21:18.427
Intercollegiate Athletics for Women
which has a competitive model of the

00:21:18.460 --> 00:21:26.460
student as a student athlete and with
a the purpose of of training and

00:21:27.549 --> 00:21:33.766
providing competitive experience to
really bring forward that student

00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:38.286
element of student athletes. Was this
the Association of Intercollegiate

00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:43.457
Athletics for Women A. I. A. W.
There's lots of initials in the sports,

00:21:43.490 --> 00:21:48.786
but this is the one that actually
eventually combined with the N. C. A. So

00:21:48.819 --> 00:21:53.516
many people in women's sports don't
realize that the N. C. A. A. Really

00:21:53.549 --> 00:21:58.006
wasn't there for women's sports. In
the beginning it was actually a group

00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:03.417
of women leaders, physical education
teachers and coaches who realized

00:22:03.450 --> 00:22:07.377
that focusing on women's sports was so
important to have their own

00:22:07.410 --> 00:22:12.677
organization. Um and and a long
history. So there are a I. A. W.

00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:18.377
Championships at schools prior to N.
C. A. A. Championships in women's

00:22:18.410 --> 00:22:21.746
sports. Is that right? That's correct.
And the other point that I think is

00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:26.746
well worth making is that I don't want
the portrayal to be that were the

00:22:26.779 --> 00:22:34.556
first athletes there have been great
women athletes as as those of us who

00:22:34.589 --> 00:22:41.877
are athletes. No, but I think putting
athletics on the competitive

00:22:41.910 --> 00:22:49.910
collegiate field began to highlight
them. So there were a lot of athletes

00:22:49.990 --> 00:22:57.347
who participated in women's major
softball or played field hockey or

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:02.407
played basketball and were great. And
I felt so fortunate because when I

00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:06.187
way back, when, when I was 12 years
old playing with these older women, I

00:23:06.220 --> 00:23:12.316
got to see near a white play
basketball and I got to see Dot Wilkinson are

00:23:12.349 --> 00:23:19.076
Arizona legend, Play Softball as a
youngster. And they were definitely

00:23:19.109 --> 00:23:24.617
women that you were looking up to. So
we had and always have had these

00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:29.336
premier women all throughout the world
participating. But I think title

00:23:29.369 --> 00:23:34.726
nine brought it home to the creation
of opportunity for women at the

00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:41.637
college level. And of course it is
federal social legislation. You know,

00:23:41.670 --> 00:23:46.576
this is not a choice, This is a
mandate coming down that there be equity

00:23:46.609 --> 00:23:51.556
and of course the threat of the
withdrawal of federal funding from schools.

00:23:51.589 --> 00:23:57.907
So now there's a lot more interest in
women's athletics and the creation

00:23:57.940 --> 00:24:04.296
of programs and whatever. So that's
the environment that I've walked into

00:24:04.329 --> 00:24:12.329
now and now I have the opportunity to
Coach. And in 1974,

00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:16.877
um, may I w came around the
Association of Intercollegiate Athletics for

00:24:16.910 --> 00:24:23.746
Women in 1971. So they were there when
I went to Minnesota to begin my

00:24:23.779 --> 00:24:28.016
graduate degree and started coaching.
And then they were also there, of

00:24:28.049 --> 00:24:35.937
course, in 1974 in 1974 I became the
first full time woman on staff at the

00:24:35.970 --> 00:24:40.306
University of Minnesota and coached
volleyball, basketball and softball.

00:24:40.339 --> 00:24:44.266
That was my appointment. And a lot of
times I would get asked, what else

00:24:44.299 --> 00:24:47.897
do you do it? Because

00:24:47.930 --> 00:24:54.217
it was so uncommon, you know that they
didn't, they did not relate it to

00:24:54.250 --> 00:24:59.627
the idea that a man might just coach
baseball or might just coach football

00:24:59.660 --> 00:25:03.677
, but is all you're really doing
coaching volleyball, basketball and

00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:07.627
softball. And did you have
scholarships to award to students? We didn't

00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:13.717
immediately have scholarships,
scholarships began in the late 70s and they

00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:17.637
came about on need base. And so I
remember the first athlete that I

00:25:17.670 --> 00:25:23.006
recruited um to formally play and it
was a basketball player out of Iowa

00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.457
to come and play at the University of
Minnesota on a basketball

00:25:27.490 --> 00:25:32.417
scholarship and she like many athletes
then played volleyball and

00:25:32.450 --> 00:25:38.107
basketball and many played volleyball
and softball. And, and then

00:25:38.140 --> 00:25:44.516
gradually they begin to be more
specialized into singular sport athletes.

00:25:44.549 --> 00:25:49.006
And of course then the scholarship
money skyrocketed,

00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:54.887
which would have been in 1981 when the
N. C double A. Kind of took over

00:25:54.920 --> 00:26:01.617
the women and embraced them into their
model. The Ai W then was a demise

00:26:01.650 --> 00:26:06.546
organization and and that's what a lot
of people because they're so

00:26:06.579 --> 00:26:10.286
familiar with N C double A. They think
of that as being the beginning of

00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:15.677
collegiate athletic organization. but
they really were started by A. I. W.

00:26:15.710 --> 00:26:22.217
And then became part of N. C. Double
A. In 1981 and then the full

00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:28.457
scholarships or approaching full
scholarship allotments were coming around.

00:26:28.490 --> 00:26:33.316
Then I want to just mention to you too
I moved into the Biermann building

00:26:33.349 --> 00:26:40.917
at the University of Minnesota. I'm
housed next to Herb brooks. The great

00:26:40.950 --> 00:26:47.766
ice hockey coach. I do ice hockey um
professional ice hockey players as my

00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:52.597
master's thesis um body composition
and aerobic capacity of professional

00:26:52.630 --> 00:26:59.306
ice hockey players. And then the
search was on at that time um to see what

00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:03.657
was the difference in training between
the US and the Russians because we

00:27:03.690 --> 00:27:10.006
were very interested and then of
course the U. S. Went on to win with

00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:15.207
coach brooks and Lake Placid but it
was I look back at those times and I

00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:20.276
was so exposed to the great then not
just the women's side but the great

00:27:20.309 --> 00:27:27.107
men coaches including Herb who was
outstanding and a great um great person.

00:27:27.140 --> 00:27:33.907
I did a coaching basketball camp with
Jon Conlan who was the great

00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:38.357
Minneapolis Lakers coach and of course
the Lakers went on to move out of

00:27:38.390 --> 00:27:44.357
Minneapolis for basketball into L. A.
So my world is now again just

00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:49.887
broadened and greater horizons. I
wanted to ask about that basketball

00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.806
player, your first scholarship recruit
because many people might not

00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:58.927
realize that the game of basketball
that was played um in women's sports

00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:04.417
was sort of a half court game. Um, as
I'm recalling the roving forward

00:28:04.450 --> 00:28:10.296
could cross the, the court and, but
everybody else had to stop and, and it

00:28:10.329 --> 00:28:14.006
was very weird and I think I, oh, I
mean it's weird today, but back then

00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:18.667
that was it, you know, you know, it
hasn't been but more than a decade

00:28:18.700 --> 00:28:24.586
that Iowa, which was the last state to
change. And really the reason that

00:28:24.619 --> 00:28:30.457
I was changed late, they played, they
played a split court then. So you

00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:34.316
either played offense on basketball or
you played defense on basketball.

00:28:34.349 --> 00:28:38.816
When I played in high school, we
played with rovers. So we had some

00:28:38.849 --> 00:28:42.457
stationary people that just played
offense and defense and of course then

00:28:42.490 --> 00:28:46.967
the rover. So I love being the rover
because you played full court. By the

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:50.697
time I went to college, it was full
court basketball and we were of course

00:28:50.730 --> 00:28:56.236
at college playing full court. But
Iowa remained a split court and it did

00:28:56.269 --> 00:29:02.137
really because girls basketball was so
popular, they were afraid to change

00:29:02.170 --> 00:29:07.687
it that it might really do harm to the
game because it was way more

00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:13.076
popular for several decades than than
really the boys games in the state.

00:29:13.109 --> 00:29:16.516
And I think just, you know, stopping
to think about how rules were made

00:29:16.549 --> 00:29:22.086
for, for girls and women in sports is,
is important because it's, it's a

00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:27.127
part of history that many will never
know unless we talk about it. But in

00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:32.417
golf for example, um, people weren't,
women weren't allowed to raise their

00:29:32.450 --> 00:29:38.457
arms above their shoulders because it
was unladylike and um, in uh,

00:29:38.490 --> 00:29:42.536
basketball, we were always told that
it wasn't good to run that much. So

00:29:42.569 --> 00:29:46.367
only a few could. Um, but could you
comment on, you know, sort of the

00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:50.516
limitations and how rules might be
different men and women. And of course

00:29:50.549 --> 00:29:55.907
, I think that basketball is a great
example where it was half court and

00:29:55.940 --> 00:29:59.667
it was also limited dribble like, um,
I don't know if you remember that,

00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:03.357
but you could dribble the ball three
times and then you had to pass and it

00:30:03.390 --> 00:30:09.177
was, you know, all of these kind of
cultural things which were probably

00:30:09.210 --> 00:30:14.867
designed with a good heart thinking,
um, you know, women weren't capable

00:30:14.900 --> 00:30:19.717
of doing these things, but when you
consider women didn't really until

00:30:19.750 --> 00:30:25.357
almost the 19 hundreds become full
time students in college because, and I

00:30:25.390 --> 00:30:29.256
believe that was the University of
Wisconsin Madison had the first full

00:30:29.289 --> 00:30:34.226
time women in, you know, like 18 95
because they didn't think women could

00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:40.226
handle a full time load in college. So
our cultural mindset about, um,

00:30:40.259 --> 00:30:47.306
well femininity, not women's
capabilities to men, the speed and strength

00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:51.877
differences. We've gone Really kind of
all the way down the road. And it

00:30:51.910 --> 00:30:55.437
made me think of that especially, you
know, this weekend now we've got,

00:30:55.470 --> 00:31:01.286
you know, Danica, she's in the Indy
500 and you, we have women doing all

00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:07.536
these incredible things and narrowing
really the gap in marathon times and

00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:13.667
just so many things are different now
and a lot of it attributed really

00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:18.677
directly I think from Title nine and
the increased opportunity and

00:31:18.710 --> 00:31:23.986
exposure especially at the collegiate
level because you know, and that's

00:31:24.019 --> 00:31:28.847
what are higher institutions are for
about changing the culture and

00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:33.316
adapting the culture and being the
leader, the trendsetter of the culture.

00:31:33.349 --> 00:31:36.927
And I think that's true for women's
sports. Well there are, I think

00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:41.766
sports really helped women helped
girls realize how much you could do. I

00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:46.637
mean there were lots of things in
society like I happen to know that the

00:31:46.670 --> 00:31:50.417
Radcliffe women students couldn't use
the Harvard library during the day.

00:31:50.450 --> 00:31:53.496
They had to go there at night at
closing time, check out books and bring

00:31:53.529 --> 00:31:57.607
them back. I mean can you believe
that? That's an unbelievable, but that's

00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:03.326
another example of, of how women were
held back. But sports gave women

00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:10.326
gave young girls an avenue really to
um strive for excellence and not only

00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:14.857
in the United States, but also
internationally you have a great deal of

00:32:14.890 --> 00:32:19.937
experience with the olympics and the
pan american games and much of this

00:32:19.970 --> 00:32:23.776
coincided with your career coming to
Arizona state, but before we talk

00:32:23.809 --> 00:32:28.157
about your wonderful career at Arizona
State, I'd like you to talk about

00:32:28.190 --> 00:32:32.217
your, your international coaching
experience where you got to travel in

00:32:32.250 --> 00:32:39.707
the world and I remember emails from
Beijing about your daily adventures.

00:32:39.740 --> 00:32:45.796
Yeah. I just feel like my whole
experience was just like a rocket ship.

00:32:45.829 --> 00:32:53.697
It just started and just really I've
had so many great opportunities the

00:32:53.730 --> 00:32:58.306
whole time I met Minnesota of course I
haven't given up on myself, so I'm

00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:03.207
still playing and competing and um
starts out being a field hockey,

00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:06.407
basketball, volleyball, I have a U. S.
V. B. A. Team that's very

00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:10.316
successful and goes to national
championships. I'm competing every year in

00:33:10.349 --> 00:33:14.947
women's major softball. I started play
as you remember back in my story

00:33:14.980 --> 00:33:21.707
here when I was 12 and I played to 43
way past the time that I came out to

00:33:21.740 --> 00:33:29.306
A. S. U. So I played for a lot of
years um in 1975 there was a women's

00:33:29.339 --> 00:33:37.006
professional league and it was another
kind of step forward

00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:42.236
certainly for me and my career. But
for so many of us that had spent so

00:33:42.269 --> 00:33:48.387
much of our time playing women's major
ball, that was the elite level of

00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:53.536
competition at the time. Women's
major. And most of us now because of the

00:33:53.569 --> 00:33:57.086
exposure to the movie league of our
own. I can remember the baseball

00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:01.407
league back during the war time that
was created to replace the men who

00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:05.877
had gone off to war and women had um
many of them from the state of

00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:11.867
Arizona and from the women's major
teams in the area had been exposed to

00:34:11.900 --> 00:34:19.586
that. But now um here comes a
professional opportunity for women in

00:34:19.619 --> 00:34:27.619
softball. So that was also now
incorporated into my whole atmosphere Of um

00:34:28.900 --> 00:34:35.146
coaching and teaching because of
course I still always taught classes

00:34:35.179 --> 00:34:41.197
while I was at Minnesota. So I tried
out for and was successful to make

00:34:41.230 --> 00:34:47.017
the Chicago Ravens in 1975. So I
played for the Chicago Ravens and we

00:34:47.050 --> 00:34:54.697
played 120 ballgames between um May 28
and September three, which made it

00:34:54.730 --> 00:35:01.287
essentially a doubleheader every day.
So I was a catcher for the Chicago

00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:06.717
team and after the first year of the
league, the Chicago team folded and I

00:35:06.750 --> 00:35:11.296
was drafted out of that to go to ST
louis as a pitcher. So I went to ST

00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:17.947
Louis, I pitch for them. I played
basically every position when I played

00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:21.827
women's major ball. It didn't, I
didn't care usually I pitched or caught

00:35:21.860 --> 00:35:26.606
and then played whatever other
position the pitchers and catchers played,

00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:30.887
were you right handed left handed,
right handed thrower and also a right

00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:36.967
handed batter. So um so I go to ST
louis now and I am a picture and then

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:42.436
our catchers are injured, so I become
a catcher and I play for them a year

00:35:42.469 --> 00:35:48.986
and then I become player coach for um
the next two years and we're just

00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:54.276
this year being going to be recognized
by the ST Louis Hall of Fame as a

00:35:54.309 --> 00:36:00.706
team. So I'm going to reunite here
next month with all my old Hummer

00:36:00.739 --> 00:36:05.836
buddies and teammates. So I played for
the ST louis hummers and it was

00:36:05.869 --> 00:36:11.697
then also the excitement of playing
professionally, of certainly going

00:36:11.730 --> 00:36:17.416
back and playing in ST louis was a
very special time And I was also um

00:36:17.449 --> 00:36:24.967
engaging then in international
coaching in 1985 I was named um as one of

00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:31.456
the United States coaches and we took
the United States myself and carol

00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:38.936
spanks who was a great and Hall of
Fame softball player played out of

00:36:38.969 --> 00:36:44.106
California for the California lion,
it's and she was the head coach at cal

00:36:44.139 --> 00:36:49.767
poly pomona, she and I were named to
coach the team and we took the um

00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:55.787
United States team, we were the first
um female coaching staff ever of a U.

00:36:55.820 --> 00:37:02.026
S. Team. We took them to um Melbourne
Australia for the South pacific

00:37:02.059 --> 00:37:08.736
Classic. We go to the we go to the
coaching meeting and it's not starting

00:37:08.769 --> 00:37:12.657
and it's not starting and it's not
starting and finally I go up and I go

00:37:12.690 --> 00:37:16.276
excuse me, but you know when you might
be starting the coaches meeting and

00:37:16.309 --> 00:37:23.166
they go well we're waiting for the
United States to get here because

00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:29.327
they couldn't relate to that. We were
there, the two women were coaching

00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:32.796
the team. So we won the gold medal in
the South pacific classic that was

00:37:32.829 --> 00:37:38.197
in 1985 and then carol and I were also
named to coach the Pan american

00:37:38.230 --> 00:37:45.037
Games in 1987 in 1987 the Pan american
Games included softball, as they

00:37:45.070 --> 00:37:50.097
still do today, but that was the
highest level of softball. So softball

00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:54.256
had not been included in the olympic
games. So coaching in the Pan Am's

00:37:54.289 --> 00:38:00.456
was the best you could do. We were
thrilled. And we took the team to And

00:38:00.489 --> 00:38:05.137
the games were held in Indianapolis
perfect. Because a lot of people could

00:38:05.170 --> 00:38:10.026
come and support us. And I still
remember the opening ceremony was held at

00:38:10.059 --> 00:38:14.767
the Indy 500 race way and they put us
all on these busses and they give

00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:18.467
you these talks about you're gonna
climb these stairs and suddenly it's

00:38:18.500 --> 00:38:22.407
gonna flatten out and when it does
Remember to breathe because you're

00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:26.637
gonna walk out in front of 200,000
people and you're thinking, oh, how

00:38:26.670 --> 00:38:31.447
hard can this be? You know, we got our
little opening ceremony suits on

00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:35.336
and you get up there and it flattens
out and you cannot breathe. You are

00:38:35.369 --> 00:38:40.526
hyperventilating. It's such a thrill
to march in and represent your

00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:45.427
country. And then we went on to win
the gold medal that year. And so it's

00:38:45.460 --> 00:38:52.186
another Just super experience for me
that was in 1987 and then two years

00:38:52.219 --> 00:38:59.787
later I'm mhm making application to
become the coach at Arizona state? And

00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:04.807
and would you say, would you say that
future coaching meetings meetings

00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:10.287
started on time now that they
recognize this kind of, it was just this

00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.836
moment, you know, and right, when you
think you're, it's always that way,

00:39:13.869 --> 00:39:16.356
it's like, right, when you think
you're getting over that, like, don't

00:39:16.389 --> 00:39:21.637
they know where the coaches know they
didn't? And, and uh, and really, as

00:39:21.670 --> 00:39:27.986
my kind of global exposure expands,

00:39:28.019 --> 00:39:35.936
you now become um, you know, the
dichotomy of you are at battle in the

00:39:35.969 --> 00:39:42.986
colleges, you are fighting for court
time, your practice time budgets,

00:39:43.019 --> 00:39:47.477
assistant coaches, you know, you are
doing the gender, you know, I feel

00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:55.126
like I did the gender equity battle um
for a lot of years. Um, but I think

00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:59.327
it was title nine before I even
realized there was discrimination because

00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:04.977
I was playing, you know, I wasn't
bothered with, Could I play? I was,

00:40:05.010 --> 00:40:09.566
nobody's gonna stop me. And I had, you
know, my dad saying, well, she

00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.126
wants to go hunting, you know,
wouldn't let her go, she'll get tired of it.

00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:17.126
And then I had finally, my mother
saying, when do you think, you know,

00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:20.387
this is all good, this Minnesota
thing, but when do you think you'll get a

00:40:20.420 --> 00:40:25.986
real job? You know, and I don't think
my mother got it and understood it

00:40:26.019 --> 00:40:30.686
until I went to ST louis and played
professionally and then because of the

00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:36.017
media and the support and kind of the
status that you gain as a

00:40:36.050 --> 00:40:42.247
professional athlete. My mom then
embraced it and she'd always been good

00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:46.706
about coming, you know, but a lot of
times the game would be over and and

00:40:46.739 --> 00:40:50.276
you'd go up to mom and she'd go on and
we win because she wasn't, you know

00:40:50.309 --> 00:40:54.697
, really watching and she didn't care.
You know, you've had a good time

00:40:54.730 --> 00:40:59.526
and you know, she talked to people and
it was fun and my, my grandmother

00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:03.927
was also a big supporter, you know,
and came to the games. My parents went

00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:07.486
to the World Series, the college World
Series they attended with my

00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:11.736
sisters and my niece is probably 15
years in a row. We always went as a

00:41:11.769 --> 00:41:17.367
family to the college World Series. So
I can see that kind of the

00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:22.006
dichotomy of you have to work hard and
you're battling. And at the same

00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:27.227
time once you get global, it's really
quickly apparent the opportunity you

00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:34.146
have in the United States in athletics
and especially in collegiate and

00:41:34.179 --> 00:41:42.070
club and professional athletic
programs as a woman in in theUSS