WEBVTT 00:00:01.139 --> 00:00:06.606 um To start off, I want to identify that on the tape that today is monday 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:14.639 January 29 of 2007 and we're here at the S. U. Um what do they call this 00:00:15.789 --> 00:00:22.107 building? Community, community services building uh to do a living history 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:26.596 uh interview for the living history video project for Arizona State 00:00:26.629 --> 00:00:31.506 University retirees association. And I'm pam Stephenson doing the 00:00:31.539 --> 00:00:36.126 interview. Manny Garcia is our videographer and I'd like to have you give 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:41.016 us your name, So we're pronouncing it correctly. I'm Ella Mae or Ellie 00:00:41.049 --> 00:00:44.497 branched, better 00:00:44.530 --> 00:00:52.530 spell that for our transcriber. B R A N S T E T T E R. And do you prefer 00:00:52.740 --> 00:00:59.906 Ellie or Ellie Mae? Um Alright. Um to start off we like to go back and 00:00:59.939 --> 00:01:02.876 kind of start at the beginning and tell me you know when and where you 00:01:02.909 --> 00:01:10.096 were born? Oh I was born in Oklahoma In a small town about 70 miles 00:01:10.129 --> 00:01:18.027 northeast of Tulsa Oklahoma And was the 8th of eight Children. Family big 00:01:18.060 --> 00:01:26.060 family In 1922. You want to give us the date July 18 in case you want to 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:31.307 send me a birthday card. 00:01:31.340 --> 00:01:37.897 My mother was born July 19. Really? Isen't that interesting? Isn't that 00:01:37.930 --> 00:01:43.197 interesting interesting coincidence? Oh so um what what was it like 00:01:43.230 --> 00:01:49.766 growing up in Oklahoma? It was wonderful, it was a small town and called 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:56.837 Miami. Not Miami Black as in florida. It's spelled the same way. Yes but 00:01:56.870 --> 00:02:02.316 the I guess the speech pattern was different and my parents had moved 00:02:02.349 --> 00:02:07.587 there from Missouri but it was it was very nice. It was a nice friendly 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:15.620 town and not at all like today's society, it was a very friendly, nice 00:02:17.830 --> 00:02:24.356 town. Why did your parents move their, what did they do? My my father was 00:02:24.389 --> 00:02:31.156 working there. They had owned a farm in Missouri but he was also a 00:02:31.189 --> 00:02:38.186 carpenter and builder contractor and apparently that's where the work was 00:02:38.219 --> 00:02:44.087 at that time. So they sold the farm and moved to Oklahoma. So they didn't 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:48.207 do any farming in Oklahoma. 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:52.916 And if you were the 8th of eight Children, that was a big family. It was 00:02:52.949 --> 00:02:57.807 very nice meeting a family like that. 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:04.207 So did you go to a small school then? A small school? Um I really don't 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:06.916 know how many schools there were in the town but there was one in our 00:03:06.949 --> 00:03:12.406 neighborhood which was very nice and we also live near the junior college. 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.927 It was called a junior college at that time. Instead of community college 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:23.960 , which was nice. Were you a good student? Yes I was and I was interested 00:03:25.830 --> 00:03:31.367 in in school, I liked it. What did you do what you like the best? Did you 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:35.957 have a favorite subject? No, I just I just like learning what I could 00:03:35.990 --> 00:03:40.596 learn. It was a little girl growing up there. What did you plan to do when 00:03:40.629 --> 00:03:44.497 you grow up? I didn't think about it much when I was a little girl but 00:03:44.530 --> 00:03:52.406 when I got into my teens I I began thinking about it more and more and um 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:58.397 I decided I would like to be a nurse. One of my sisters was a nurse and so 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:01.506 I followed in her footsteps. 00:04:01.539 --> 00:04:07.006 Mhm. And went to school in ST louis Missouri. 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:10.156 You actually grew up if you're born in 1922, you grew up during the 00:04:10.189 --> 00:04:13.927 depression. And of course we always think of local during that period. 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:18.897 What was that like? Well, it was hard I think for all families including 00:04:18.930 --> 00:04:25.947 ours. But fortunately my father was able to maintain enough jobs and 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:30.577 people, there was enough building going on that we were we were 00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:38.610 satisfactory. I mean our situation was satisfactory, it wasn't ah over 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:47.676 the town was not overpopulated. So the work was not constant, but it was 00:04:47.709 --> 00:04:49.906 satisfactory 00:04:49.939 --> 00:04:53.036 when you had eight Children, did they work to to help support the family? 00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:59.707 Uh Not really, no, because being the eighth um some of them had already 00:04:59.740 --> 00:05:05.726 left home and and we're working or going to school someplace else. So when 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:13.759 I grew up There were my two brothers And one sister and myself. Um Yes, 00:05:14.829 --> 00:05:22.829 we're older. Yes. Right. Um Did you have to work to help out? No, I didn't. 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:31.339 Um I did have a job after I finished high school and I also went to the 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:37.306 community college of the junior college which I mentioned for one year, 00:05:37.339 --> 00:05:42.707 but it was I worked in a in a 00:05:42.740 --> 00:05:48.527 I'm not sure how it could be described except it was a bookstore and a a 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:56.560 story where people caught the bus and other other things like that. But it 00:05:56.730 --> 00:06:01.366 wasn't primarily bookstore, which was interesting for me to because I like 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:09.399 to read. What did you do there? Just general selling and uh maintaining, 00:06:09.569 --> 00:06:12.906 keeping the store clean, 00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:16.207 keeping the 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:22.007 books and on display an appropriate manner. 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:25.267 As a girl growing up, things were a lot different than they are today. Did 00:06:25.300 --> 00:06:31.527 your family have like a big garden chickens? Oh yes. My my my family did 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:36.397 have a big garden. It was, there was an empty a lot right adjacent to our 00:06:36.430 --> 00:06:42.947 home and it was owned by one of the neighbors and we had access to that my 00:06:42.980 --> 00:06:47.986 father another planted and it was wonderful having treasure vegetables all 00:06:48.019 --> 00:06:54.036 of the time. Didn't you help out there? I can't say that. I didn't much 00:06:54.069 --> 00:07:02.069 help. I uh I know that I was there and I think I dropped a few seeds some 00:07:02.269 --> 00:07:08.176 place or another, but I didn't do any really formal work. Did you have 00:07:08.209 --> 00:07:14.416 chores that you did around the house? Uh No, not many. I think I had a 00:07:14.449 --> 00:07:19.306 privileged experience being the last date. 00:07:19.339 --> 00:07:23.147 There was a lot more work to do around the house. We've been to laundry 00:07:23.180 --> 00:07:29.147 and cooking canning. Yes. Yes, I did help some with those kinds of things 00:07:29.180 --> 00:07:37.180 , but not only in great detail. and my two brothers who won was I think 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:41.906 five years older than I and the other was eight years older. So they did 00:07:41.939 --> 00:07:46.976 most of the other, any heavy work that needed to be done to help the 00:07:47.009 --> 00:07:52.096 family? Your sister, that was a nurse? How much older was she? She's about 00:07:52.129 --> 00:07:55.306 nine years older than I. 00:07:55.339 --> 00:07:59.726 So she was sort of an example for you. Yes, she was in fact all of my 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:05.306 brothers and sisters right an example for me and they were very very good 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:08.106 to me 00:08:08.139 --> 00:08:14.736 growing up. Did you plan to go to college then? Uh Yes, I I think uh I did 00:08:14.769 --> 00:08:18.806 because I went to college immediately after graduating from high school 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:24.507 and I thought about going to college elsewhere after I finished two years 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:30.077 at that junior college, so to speak. But then I decided to go into nursing. 00:08:30.110 --> 00:08:38.110 And and so I've reviewed several places to go and decided to go. Two 00:08:39.309 --> 00:08:44.106 jewish hospital in ST louis, which is where my sister had gone. What did 00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:49.606 you like about that? And why did you choose it? Uh Well I liked it because 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:57.639 I knew something about it for sure. Uh for one thing and it was I had a 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:06.016 good reputation and uh it was near what was in Barnes hospital and in ST 00:09:06.049 --> 00:09:10.717 louis and some of the classes were shared with that school. And that 00:09:10.750 --> 00:09:16.207 school was associated with the university there affected jewish hospital. 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:22.736 Yes, in the hospital I went to was your family jewish? Yeah, so it was a 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:28.386 good experience for me to be with another group of people whose habits and 00:09:28.419 --> 00:09:32.756 beliefs were different too. It was interesting. What year was that when 00:09:32.789 --> 00:09:40.789 you started? Um I guess it was 41. I graduated from there in 1944. 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:45.396 So that was the time that World War two. Yes, it certainly was. So 00:09:45.429 --> 00:09:52.907 unfortunately I didn't get to go home very often because the busses and 00:09:52.940 --> 00:10:00.940 trains, we're all loaded with army personnel actually. And not only did we 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.486 not have released time that much except in the summer. We had a couple of 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:10.246 weeks but it would take too long for me to get there even if I had been 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:16.537 able to get transportation except that christmas time and run week during 00:10:16.570 --> 00:10:19.106 the summer. 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:23.297 So you you pretty much stayed there in ST louis. Did you know people there 00:10:23.330 --> 00:10:31.330 ? No, but I had some relatives who lived across the river in in Elroy and 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:36.896 was in contact with them part of the time. They were very gracious hosts 00:10:36.929 --> 00:10:42.756 for me when I had a day or so off. Is there any other ways that the war 00:10:42.789 --> 00:10:48.947 impacted your life? Well, yes, we were all afraid because ST louis I think 00:10:48.980 --> 00:10:55.307 at that time was in fact I know at that time was lights out at a certain 00:10:55.340 --> 00:11:00.506 time except in the hospital which was right across from the nursing home, 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:08.057 the the nurses residents I should say. And uh we had to cover our windows 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:11.006 very carefully at night 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:16.996 because of the fear of mom and me. I guess we never had very much 00:11:17.029 --> 00:11:22.266 information about it. But we all certainly covered our windows of our our 00:11:22.299 --> 00:11:28.756 rooms. Kind of a frightening way to live. Yes. But it's amazing want girls 00:11:28.789 --> 00:11:34.236 to accept it and not think much about it. I wouldn't have thought of that 00:11:34.269 --> 00:11:38.616 of ST louis because it's in the middle of the country of California. Heard 00:11:38.649 --> 00:11:42.087 about California being concerned, 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:49.907 louis was just as worried. Yes, it was as a as a city. 00:11:49.940 --> 00:11:56.077 And did you ever consider joining the military? Yes, I did. And uh I had 00:11:56.110 --> 00:12:02.126 graduated from the school at that time and was a head nurse on the men's 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:07.807 ward. And I think that probably was unusual for an immediate graduate to 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:13.937 have a job of that responsibility. But I did and it was, it was very 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:21.970 helpful to me. It was interesting. Um but at about the time when there 00:12:22.549 --> 00:12:29.146 were several of us who had an apartment together for us actually and we 00:12:29.179 --> 00:12:34.626 all decided at the same time to join the army or one person wanted to be 00:12:34.659 --> 00:12:42.659 in the navy and I was an army recruit. And about that time I developed a 00:12:44.809 --> 00:12:52.809 heavy and really a massive sickness I guess I had was a high temperature 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.606 and 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:01.837 uh gee I guess they didn't ever diagnose it, but I was in the hospital for 00:13:01.870 --> 00:13:06.707 a couple of weeks at the time when I was being called into duty and I 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:12.657 couldn't go. So they revoked my orders. So I was and I wasn't and he 00:13:12.690 --> 00:13:19.776 placed near the recruitment office after that. And what year was that? It 00:13:19.809 --> 00:13:25.346 must have been 45. The war ended shortly. Yes. 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:29.657 You mentioned you were the head nurse on the men's ward. We don't hear 00:13:29.690 --> 00:13:33.236 about the men's ward. No, but that it was structured that way in this 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:39.506 hospital. The women's ward was at one end of the hall with beds lined up 00:13:39.539 --> 00:13:47.539 throughout the a rather large room and the men's ward was at the other end 00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:54.886 of the hall. And we had a lot of recruits from South America people who 00:13:54.919 --> 00:14:02.919 had left Germany and came up to relatives in ST louis through uh South 00:14:03.250 --> 00:14:10.947 America. So we had we had our taste of from people who came through And 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:16.096 came to the hospital for one element or another. These were jewish people. 00:14:16.129 --> 00:14:20.407 Yes. Yes. 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:26.077 Did you see any veterans coming back? No, not many. They weren't yet 00:14:26.110 --> 00:14:32.106 released. Probably the military when I was there. Yes. 00:14:32.139 --> 00:14:34.506 Um 00:14:34.539 --> 00:14:39.797 So after your illness, what did you do? You got better obviously. Yeah. 00:14:39.830 --> 00:14:45.917 Yeah. Yeah. Quickly to know. Not quickly. I went back to to where my 00:14:45.950 --> 00:14:50.726 parents were and in Oklahoma and stayed there for a while and worked at 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:56.717 one of the local hospitals and then I had by that time I had two sisters 00:14:56.750 --> 00:15:01.437 who were living in Arizona and and one of them came through and said, why 00:15:01.470 --> 00:15:06.106 don't you come to Arizona with us because she was twisting her vacation 00:15:06.139 --> 00:15:11.606 and I decided to do that. And that was my first trip into Arizona. What 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.947 year was that? I guess there's still 45. So you came out basically as a 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:22.707 tourist or I'm here to live well, she lived in Tucson at that time and I 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:28.146 came and decided to stay a while and, and worked at the county hospital in 00:15:28.179 --> 00:15:34.526 Tucson for a while. What was that like back then? What was to sunlight? It 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:40.317 was a small town. It really was. I could get to my sister's house by 00:15:40.350 --> 00:15:45.197 stepping outside and taking the bus to the part of town where she lived 00:15:45.230 --> 00:15:49.976 and it went through the center of town. So I was able to get out and shop 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.557 and do other things that I'd like to do. What was your first impression 00:15:54.590 --> 00:15:57.616 when you came to Tucson? It must have been quite different from Oklahoma. 00:15:57.649 --> 00:16:04.077 Well it was different from Oklahoma. Uh, but it was, it was nice. I liked 00:16:04.110 --> 00:16:08.506 it. I liked the heat strangely 00:16:08.539 --> 00:16:15.797 and uh the people were nice and I made some nice friends and it was nice 00:16:15.830 --> 00:16:20.496 having my sister there because I could go on days off and spend my time 00:16:20.529 --> 00:16:28.486 with them. It was an uneventful small town I think. So did you come, 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:34.157 they're planning to stay or well, I came primarily to just look around 00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:38.907 because I was interested, but I and I did not say I went back to Missouri 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:41.207 for a while 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:48.707 and back to ST louis as I recall. Why did you do that? Um 00:16:48.740 --> 00:16:55.496 I think I think I didn't find Tucson that interesting to stay but I like 00:16:55.529 --> 00:17:02.207 the weather and so I went back to and worked in ST louis for a while again. 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:07.377 Where did you work this time? At the same place 00:17:07.410 --> 00:17:13.316 at jewish hospital? Well then what brought you to the phoenix area? Well I 00:17:13.349 --> 00:17:21.349 am I did take some classes at ST louis university and 00:17:21.910 --> 00:17:27.786 came to say came to phoenix, the phoenix area did you say? And well I had 00:17:27.819 --> 00:17:33.306 another sister who lived here then in fact she had uh the only drug store 00:17:33.339 --> 00:17:38.707 in Tempe which was called the Tempe drug at that time. And I visited with 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:46.177 her and began working at the indian service hospital which was over in 00:17:46.210 --> 00:17:54.210 phoenix. And then after that I worked at a hospital in south phoenix which 00:17:56.059 --> 00:18:00.667 was, I can't remember the name of the hospital at the time but it was run 00:18:00.700 --> 00:18:08.700 by an ex Jesuit priest and for the population in that area which was a 00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:16.647 lower class population who needed care and help. And I found santa Monica 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:22.026 , that's right and it was very interesting to me, what was it called Santa 00:18:22.059 --> 00:18:25.306 Monica's hospital? Thanks. 00:18:25.339 --> 00:18:31.236 Somebody else knows about it. I lived in the neighborhood, I lived about 00:18:31.269 --> 00:18:35.887 four blocks away. Well I lived down there too and I was working down there. 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:38.526 Tell her what that was like, that neighborhood right there. That's an 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:44.976 interesting neighborhood. Well it is interesting and it was uh partly 00:18:45.009 --> 00:18:53.009 mexican I think as I recall and some other families and some negroes but 00:18:54.349 --> 00:19:01.026 mostly uh there was mexican population and when people couldn't go to 00:19:01.059 --> 00:19:08.957 other hospitals, I think they came there and it was it wasn't a busy 00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:12.407 hospital and 00:19:12.440 --> 00:19:16.246 that's about all I can remember about it. Did you need to learn spanish? 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:20.907 You know, I didn't, although I picked up some 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:27.887 and later in uh in fatigues, I worked for the visiting nurse service and 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:34.306 when they had one here and that was for many years, it was very much used. 00:19:34.339 --> 00:19:40.697 And that was an interesting experience also. And I also took courses 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:47.597 while I was ah involved in working to. That sounds like as a nurse. You 00:19:47.630 --> 00:19:51.236 never had problems getting a job when you decided. No. That's right. There 00:19:51.269 --> 00:19:55.506 were always jobs 00:19:55.539 --> 00:20:01.457 at least the jobs that I was interested in. But why did you decide to work 00:20:01.490 --> 00:20:04.506 for the visiting nurse service? 00:20:04.539 --> 00:20:08.836 Because I thought it would be interesting and it was helpful to people who 00:20:08.869 --> 00:20:16.806 needed uh who needed help from our care from nurses who usually the 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:21.447 doctors referred someone. But there were also there was also another 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:27.397 population if people would refer to as some uh family to visiting your 00:20:27.430 --> 00:20:32.937 service, we always went out and and did an assessment of the situation and 00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:38.066 made recommendations and help for them. Mm. Yeah, describe for me a little 00:20:38.099 --> 00:20:43.806 bit how the visiting nurse service worked Well uh 00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:48.256 calls uh when people were discharged from the hospital or if they weren't 00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:54.367 sick enough to go to the hospital are many of them had diabetes and needed 00:20:54.400 --> 00:21:00.377 instruction on how to help themselves and take care of their as the 00:21:00.410 --> 00:21:05.306 disease at the same time. And so the doctor should call the visiting your 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:12.826 service and the director would assign nurses to that family. And also we 00:21:12.859 --> 00:21:17.367 had students from, from good samaritan hospital which is now Banner 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:24.917 hospital in phoenix. And I happen to be an instructor for the students at 00:21:24.950 --> 00:21:31.947 that time. So I accompanied them also into visits and show them the 00:21:31.980 --> 00:21:37.597 routine for the activities of the visiting nurse. Well who operated the 00:21:37.630 --> 00:21:42.607 visiting nurse service. How is it funded? It was funded through 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:49.006 several sources but it was partly through what was in the community 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:55.907 service agency. And uh also fees were collected when it could, people 00:21:55.940 --> 00:22:02.726 could pay if not they were uh, the money was obtained from the victim 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:08.707 unity source. So it was sort of a nonprofit operation definitely 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:14.226 definitely. When did they start having their ebook sales? It was during 00:22:14.259 --> 00:22:22.259 the time I was there and the director when I was there was mrs done, she 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:28.717 and her husband had been a in fact she and her husband both had worked in 00:22:28.750 --> 00:22:36.677 parker when the japanese people were all sent to parker Arizona and she 00:22:36.710 --> 00:22:42.707 had some interesting ideas and the very community wide approach towards 00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:50.107 visiting nurses association and what we did. It's very interesting. 00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:54.667 So was it her idea to have a book sale? I think it was, do you remember 00:22:54.700 --> 00:22:58.786 the first sale? How did that work out? I don't remember it, but I I know 00:22:58.819 --> 00:23:03.377 it was very successful for many years and still is, that's what I remember 00:23:03.410 --> 00:23:08.786 that later, but I always wondered how it got started. She, well the 00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:16.637 women's group in phoenix also supported the agency and we're very active 00:23:16.670 --> 00:23:22.187 in taking students to their assigned 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:27.687 patients to care for. They drove the students, which is a nice thing too 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:32.857 because the students didn't have cars in those days. What women's group 00:23:32.890 --> 00:23:38.976 was that the phoenix women's society 00:23:39.009 --> 00:23:44.516 and so did they start the book sale they with in cooperation with the 00:23:44.549 --> 00:23:47.006 senior service 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:51.657 because I know it's a huge event now. It really is huge, but it wasn't to 00:23:51.690 --> 00:23:56.336 begin with. It was I think they were able to use some of the county 00:23:56.369 --> 00:24:03.207 facilities to hold the book sale though. And it was successful. 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.627 Do you know how much money they raised with that too many years ship God, 00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:13.097 I had forgotten. Mhm. You know, they raised a lot of money but the books 00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:21.130 are bargained still, they still are, it's a nice community activity too. 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:25.627 So you sound like you were doing a lot of things. You were you said you 00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:30.847 were teaching at the good samaritan. No I didn't teach at good samaritan. 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:36.266 I um had we had their students there for uh you were working for practice 00:24:36.299 --> 00:24:41.097 , you know I was working at the for the visiting nurse service but I 00:24:41.130 --> 00:24:48.127 supervise students in their visits to patients in their homes And showed 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.806 them the role of what the 15 nurse does. 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.137 You mentioned you were also taking some classes. Yes. Where were you 00:24:57.170 --> 00:25:03.697 taking classes? I took classes at phoenix uh community college and I don't 00:25:03.730 --> 00:25:10.097 know what it was called then phoenix something but and also I took a class 00:25:10.130 --> 00:25:14.607 or two in the summertime at A. S. U. 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:19.387 And yes you had a college of nursing and no they did not. Unfortunately 00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:24.276 they had well I was trying to fill in some of my other classes which I 00:25:24.309 --> 00:25:29.707 needed in order to, I was working towards my bachelor's degree in nursing. 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:36.286 And so eventually uh from the visiting your service and and the indian 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.786 service experience here. I went back again to ST louis and got my 00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:44.397 bachelor's degree at Saint Louis University. 00:25:44.430 --> 00:25:49.746 So you hadn't actually gotten that degree when you were there. No. So when 00:25:49.779 --> 00:25:55.476 did you get that degree? I think it was 54. So did you become a registered 00:25:55.509 --> 00:26:02.746 nurse before that? Yes one becomes a registered nurse in those days uh by 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:08.786 simply finishing their diploma degree in nursing and usually it was 00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:11.806 associated with the hospital. 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:14.776 So you had you were a registered nurse but you didn't have the bachelor's 00:26:14.809 --> 00:26:21.207 degree, so what was the benefit of getting the bachelors? Well benefit for 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:28.496 me was I was interested in learning more things. Uh huh in general and 00:26:28.529 --> 00:26:36.226 also in nursing, but there was no nursing school per se except to the 00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:43.117 hospitals uh in phoenix at that time, there was no degree program, There 00:26:43.150 --> 00:26:50.806 was a two diploma programs As I recall one. Uh huh 00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:58.839 Barnes or saint joseph and saint joseph, not Barnes, one at 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.687 what is now banner, but it was good samaritan and And one at ST. Joseph 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:09.947 Hospital. So explain again what is the diploma program? Well it usually is 00:27:09.980 --> 00:27:17.980 a 3-year program in nursing and uh after which you get when you complete 00:27:18.210 --> 00:27:23.177 all the requirements you get your diploma says this is a registered nurse 00:27:23.210 --> 00:27:28.967 , but we also have to be a registered nurse, mistake a state exam. And if 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.917 she passed that in addition to having here your diploma from the hospital 00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:38.697 , you can you are a registered nurse, but first you need the diploma. Yes. 00:27:38.730 --> 00:27:44.707 So what today is you offer at that time some science courses 00:27:44.740 --> 00:27:52.740 and of course the other courses which were pertinent to becoming a 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.907 bachelor's degree recipient. 00:27:57.940 --> 00:28:00.006 So 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:04.496 I was trying to fulfill some of those requirements before I went back to 00:28:04.529 --> 00:28:09.957 ST Louis University and there was a nursing program there of course at 00:28:09.990 --> 00:28:14.036 that time it was still Arizona State Teachers College, wasn't it? No, it 00:28:14.069 --> 00:28:21.576 was Arizona State University I think in the university 58 58. Well I 00:28:21.609 --> 00:28:27.066 missed a few years I guess. Yeah, it was it was not it was the actual 00:28:27.099 --> 00:28:31.707 state college. 00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:34.927 So did you have some goals of what you wanted to do with, you got your 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:41.516 bachelor's degree then? No, I wanted to continue to do nursing, which I 00:28:41.549 --> 00:28:43.806 did. 00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:51.839 And then uh because the university nurse had rather brad broad scope uh in 00:28:55.789 --> 00:29:03.397 caring for people, um I was interested in public health. And uh so I went 00:29:03.430 --> 00:29:10.897 back to Minnesota after some experience here again and I did my masters 00:29:10.930 --> 00:29:17.937 degree in a master of public health with a minor also in the psychiatric 00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:20.107 nursing. 00:29:20.140 --> 00:29:23.127 So when you did that, were you still working as a nurse while you went to 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:28.677 school or did you just go to school? I had I had some scholarships and I 00:29:28.710 --> 00:29:35.717 did work a little, but not much, I mean I worked a lot, but that was for 00:29:35.750 --> 00:29:39.407 force by schooling 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:47.440 but not for for my uh living, I was very well taken care of with the with 00:29:48.349 --> 00:29:50.907 the 00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:55.957 the scholarship which I had received, who gave you the scholarship, I 00:29:55.990 --> 00:30:01.407 think it was the american nurses association at that point. 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:05.316 So you've got your master's degree then, what were your plans to, what do 00:30:05.349 --> 00:30:10.086 you want to do with that? Well to get a job in public health because I was 00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:14.066 interested in public health. And uh well I forgot to mention that my 00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:18.726 experience in working with the indian hospital also sort of gave me an 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:24.717 impetus to to learn more about different cultures and uh the people who 00:30:24.750 --> 00:30:32.750 needed help and care and instruction about their health and that's the 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:40.207 kind of job I was looking for. However Loretta uh 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:46.576 Bard Wick at that time I was just trying to start a school here at A. S. U. 00:30:46.609 --> 00:30:54.279 She was had been appointed as a dean too to develop a school of nursing. 00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.240 Yeah sure. And within the combined today issue and she had 00:31:02.339 --> 00:31:09.576 acquired one employee and needed another. And so she very nicely offered 00:31:09.609 --> 00:31:17.457 me a a job to help develop the programs you see. When was that? I think it 00:31:17.490 --> 00:31:23.826 was 57 when I came here. How did you get to know her? Well when I was 00:31:23.859 --> 00:31:29.566 working with the visiting nurse service she was also uh the director of 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:37.437 nursing at Banner Hospital at Good Samaritan Hospital. And she I was 00:31:37.470 --> 00:31:42.957 familiar with her for meetings, nursing meetings and also from working 00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:47.377 with her in the assignment of the students from Good samaritan hospital to 00:31:47.410 --> 00:31:53.207 the visiting nurse service. Yeah. Experience. 00:31:53.240 --> 00:32:01.240 So she hired you then in 1957. And was that a full time job to develop the 00:32:01.910 --> 00:32:06.506 program in nursing at issue. So what did that involve? How did you do that 00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:11.306 ? Not easily? Um 00:32:11.339 --> 00:32:18.506 Well there we were placed as you can imagine A very delightful place in 00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:22.207 Matthew's basement. 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:28.467 It was it was there were three or 4 pretty good sized rooms there at that 00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:36.500 time. And uh so the other person in Loretta and I um we're working as they 00:32:37.460 --> 00:32:41.847 had been here six months before I got here. So I got here at mid semester 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:48.796 or second semester. And uh we they had been doing other things and setting 00:32:48.829 --> 00:32:55.197 the groundwork for the program. And we tried to we did sit down and plan 00:32:55.230 --> 00:33:00.046 the curriculum as it should be for nurses who are going to have a 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.107 bachelor's degree. And it included uh 00:33:05.140 --> 00:33:11.417 general uh work. And as any other student would have coming together a 00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:16.407 bachelor's degree in addition to nursing courses. 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:23.046 Mm hmm. And so we we planned it. That's some other other faculty then came 00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:28.207 in uh the next year. And 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:35.857 for the following years. So the program was at accepting students to do 00:33:35.890 --> 00:33:42.407 their basic requirements and then would later move into nursing 00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.506 requirements. So what was your first title within at a. S. U. What was the 00:33:46.539 --> 00:33:51.897 job called? It was called an associate professor and how it became an 00:33:51.930 --> 00:33:56.697 associate professor at that level. I can't really remember because I was 00:33:56.730 --> 00:34:00.306 in no way 00:34:00.339 --> 00:34:05.026 at the level to be an associate professor in today's terms. But you got a 00:34:05.059 --> 00:34:09.717 master's degree. I had a master's degree and you've been doing a lot of 00:34:09.750 --> 00:34:15.037 work in there saying yes, I had you had some qualifications. Well I did 00:34:15.070 --> 00:34:22.577 have some. What was the salary? I don't know. I can't remember. It was 00:34:22.610 --> 00:34:28.606 enough to get by, but it wasn't in the minions 00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:33.697 if any ever is. And do you remember if it was more or less than you would 00:34:33.730 --> 00:34:38.506 have made as a nurse? I think it was about the same 00:34:38.539 --> 00:34:45.677 because nurses then we're not as as sparse as they are now. Although the 00:34:45.710 --> 00:34:52.267 the community didn't need a college of nursing very badly. I think why was 00:34:52.300 --> 00:34:59.896 that? Well, because you're limited when you have only a diploma, you you 00:34:59.929 --> 00:35:05.597 don't have the all of the sciences that you might have, nor the other uh 00:35:05.630 --> 00:35:13.506 courses which provide a well rounded approach to life, I think. 00:35:13.539 --> 00:35:18.057 So what did it take to you really got in on the ground floor to start the 00:35:18.090 --> 00:35:21.916 College of Nursing then? What were some of the things that you considered 00:35:21.949 --> 00:35:25.936 when you thought about what you wanted that college to be? Well, we wanted 00:35:25.969 --> 00:35:30.907 them to have a good general 00:35:30.940 --> 00:35:37.376 appreciation of the arts and the sciences. In fact it was essential. And 00:35:37.409 --> 00:35:45.409 also to bring in community needs and uh public health problems which 00:35:46.340 --> 00:35:53.006 existed in the community as well as the nursing care per se, just a broad 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:57.106 approach to knowledge. And 00:35:57.139 --> 00:35:59.997 then the 00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:08.030 emphasis on the nursing, our nursing as it is dealt with in that community. 00:36:08.030 --> 00:36:13.066 So when did you actually start accepting students and having teaching 00:36:13.099 --> 00:36:15.997 classes for them? Well 00:36:16.030 --> 00:36:18.256 actually 00:36:18.289 --> 00:36:25.947 I think it was that next fall from the came in january of of that year and 00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:29.646 I think it was the next fall we had students. 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:33.847 And were you teaching at that time? We were teaching the beginning courses 00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:41.880 in nursing along with some of them had been in in the liberal arts college 00:36:42.130 --> 00:36:47.597 and transferred over to nursing. But 00:36:47.630 --> 00:36:53.347 I think that most of them had some courses before they started and 00:36:53.380 --> 00:36:56.856 transferred into nursing. But some did not. So they started at the 00:36:56.889 --> 00:37:02.467 beginning and and took some courses introductory courses to nursing. Do 00:37:02.500 --> 00:37:05.296 you remember how many students you had the first, you know, I can't 00:37:05.329 --> 00:37:09.197 remember I was trying to remember that the other day and and it was I 00:37:09.230 --> 00:37:16.526 think they were run between 22 40 students in rule but not all of them 00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.197 stayed. 00:37:19.230 --> 00:37:24.887 Did some of them come from the community colleges to or I think most of 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:30.847 them did not. A lot of them came from other places in Arizona and they 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:36.796 were enrolled in the general liberal arts degree. Did the University of 00:37:36.829 --> 00:37:41.867 Arizona have, they started running about the same time because that's 00:37:41.900 --> 00:37:44.997 where the medical schools. 00:37:45.030 --> 00:37:50.106 That's correct. So what you were teaching then when they started, when you 00:37:50.139 --> 00:37:55.697 started classes, what did you teach? Well there were some nurses with 00:37:55.730 --> 00:38:01.316 diplomas who in fact there were a lot of them who were then wanted to get 00:38:01.349 --> 00:38:06.586 their bachelor of Science degree and uh, 00:38:06.619 --> 00:38:11.236 in the community and there were some courses that we taught advanced 00:38:11.269 --> 00:38:16.526 courses in nursing, which, and particularly again in public health because 00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:20.637 that's not one area that's dealt with at all in the, in the deployment 00:38:20.670 --> 00:38:22.686 programs. 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.887 Usually. 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:29.086 Did you yourself teach some of those courses? 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:33.887 I don't, I can't remember exactly which ones. I thought right now 00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:39.577 we, we taught what we were more competent and, and had more experience. 00:38:39.610 --> 00:38:46.097 And The, because by that next 12 we had Probably three or 4 more 00:38:46.130 --> 00:38:52.396 instructors and each was refining their area for teaching. What area was 00:38:52.429 --> 00:39:00.429 your, especially public health and, and maternal child. 00:39:00.820 --> 00:39:04.486 You didn't use your site. 00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:11.887 I did, yes. But that was a little bit later and I did use my psychic 00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:18.827 experience. It was very helpful to, um, now you say your offices were in 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:26.097 the basement of Matthews Hall. Um, where were your classes held there? Our 00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:32.097 officers were like here. And the classes were like there. Mm hmm. Not much 00:39:32.130 --> 00:39:37.177 space there. No, there wasn't a lot. But it was enough. Um, when you 00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:41.736 started off, did you have goals to have another building or to move out 00:39:41.769 --> 00:39:48.327 there? Well, we did get, yes, we had hopes of moving out of there. Uh, and 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:53.497 we did find me, I think it was the next year that we were given a building 00:39:53.530 --> 00:40:00.276 on Forest Street and it was happens to be worthy. 00:40:00.309 --> 00:40:06.827 The TV station is now Channel eight is located. And it was a nice little 00:40:06.860 --> 00:40:12.497 house. Unfortunately for me, the director of the school decided to go on a 00:40:12.530 --> 00:40:19.037 trip with her husband, had been planning it for years to Sweden and so 00:40:19.070 --> 00:40:25.276 somebody had to decide stay in and work at the college during the summer 00:40:25.309 --> 00:40:33.309 and decide how the building on forests should be redesigned internally too. 00:40:33.809 --> 00:40:38.186 Hold off of the new faculty we were getting, I happened to be lucky 00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:43.157 enough to to stay into that that year. And you said it was that loved 00:40:43.190 --> 00:40:50.217 house, It was a house, an old house just remodeling the old. Yes, we they 00:40:50.250 --> 00:40:54.617 took down practically all of the rooms and and restructure the rooms for 00:40:54.650 --> 00:41:00.387 offices and so forth. But I guess that was, that was not our beginning, 00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:06.276 that was later towards the, the time when I was getting ready to leave and 00:41:06.309 --> 00:41:13.276 go to for my doctoral degree in 62. So we were in Matthews Hall for some 00:41:13.309 --> 00:41:19.356 time. What what was a issue like those during those years, it was kind of 00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:26.177 a nice quiet campus and you could even find space to walk on the sidewalk. 00:41:26.210 --> 00:41:31.836 Mhm. Which some days it's hard to find. Uh the last time I was here 00:41:31.869 --> 00:41:37.497 trying to place to park. Yeah, that replaces the park even was there were 00:41:37.530 --> 00:41:39.956 still streets going through campus. There were streets going through 00:41:39.989 --> 00:41:47.267 campus. Yeah. And the new building which is now not the building anymore 00:41:47.300 --> 00:41:53.776 than nursing building anymore. Um was on the corner of uh 00:41:53.809 --> 00:41:57.776 what was across the street from where the churches 00:41:57.809 --> 00:41:59.876 and 00:41:59.909 --> 00:42:04.666 and it still is there of course the building. 00:42:04.699 --> 00:42:09.356 Oh, those first few years must have been kind of exciting and challenging 00:42:09.389 --> 00:42:13.736 to school from scratch. Yeah, it was very interesting. It was it was good 00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:19.586 . I must say we had a lot of help from what was called Witchy then. I 00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:22.947 don't know if you're familiar with that organization. It's a regional 00:42:22.980 --> 00:42:27.967 organization, the Western, uh 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.146 I can't remember the the whole title of it, but it was a Western society 00:42:32.179 --> 00:42:40.179 for ah higher education in the West and all the colleges and universities 00:42:41.050 --> 00:42:46.977 were invited to attend and be a member of that group. So it really made an 00:42:47.010 --> 00:42:53.997 impetus for increasing higher education in all the Western states and it's 00:42:54.030 --> 00:43:00.566 still going, it was out of Denver. I think the officers are still there 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.967 and our dean was very active in that organization. Which was helpful 00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:12.006 because she got to know other deans in the western area. And the college 00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:19.657 was helped I think by the knowledge from those schools and some of it was 00:43:19.690 --> 00:43:23.767 transferred into our curriculum, I'm sure. 00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:25.867 So, 00:43:25.900 --> 00:43:31.836 Well, you mentioned that you started here in 57 at issue and then you say 00:43:31.869 --> 00:43:39.869 you left to go get your doctoral degree. Yes. Um in, well, in 62, why did 00:43:40.409 --> 00:43:45.427 you decide to do that? Well, I decided that I didn't know enough to to be 00:43:45.460 --> 00:43:51.867 teaching at the university without having more education. And I was very 00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:56.287 interested in a program called Human development which was offered through 00:43:56.320 --> 00:44:02.166 social sciences at the University of Chicago. So I applied to another 00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:08.396 scholarship and received it and the way I went. And how long were you gone 00:44:08.429 --> 00:44:16.227 ? five years. So and I did not initially intend to return especially here 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:23.006 , but Loretta was still deemed at the college at that time and she decided 00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:28.936 that I should be here. So eventually I agreed to and it was a very nice 00:44:28.969 --> 00:44:36.969 experience. What did you think you wanted to do um to teach nursing and to 00:44:37.449 --> 00:44:43.376 incorporate the information and knowledge that I had obtained about how 00:44:43.409 --> 00:44:49.057 human how people develop over the age span. 00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:55.356 And I think that it's very helpful if nurses have a good understanding of 00:44:55.389 --> 00:44:59.876 what happens at different stages in life. But if you were in a way to 00:44:59.909 --> 00:45:03.267 Chicago for five years, you must have had a lot of other opportunities 00:45:03.300 --> 00:45:08.097 during that time. Yes, I did. And did I worked as a research associate 00:45:08.130 --> 00:45:15.287 part of the time. Uh That was during my last couple of years and that was 00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:19.256 helpful for me to 00:45:19.289 --> 00:45:24.796 because of the program, there was highly 00:45:24.829 --> 00:45:26.856 emphasized 00:45:26.889 --> 00:45:30.756 research 00:45:30.789 --> 00:45:36.247 as well as application of that research. Well, what was it that yes, you 00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:44.227 could offer you to convince you to come back here. Well, um Loretta was 00:45:44.260 --> 00:45:50.126 very interested in. The total faculty were interested in uh starting a 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:56.606 master's program. And so I was really hired to plan and get that program 00:45:56.639 --> 00:46:04.217 on on its way in nursing which I did. And I'm glad I did because it was 00:46:04.250 --> 00:46:09.447 very interesting time for me. And it was helpful to the community. 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:13.247 Why did they want a master's program? 00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:17.247 Because nurses need to know more. 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:22.776 So they need to know more of some of the stuff which I was just talking 00:46:22.809 --> 00:46:29.477 about some of the material in relation to development. And and the various 00:46:29.510 --> 00:46:36.086 programs are needed because of specialization and medicine. And nursing uh 00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:44.017 needs to be able to know how to take care of people who are uh either 00:46:44.050 --> 00:46:50.046 needing help for medical surgical problems or childbearing problems or 00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:55.546 psychiatric problems and so forth. So we had programs in those areas, 00:46:55.579 --> 00:46:59.646 programs for ministers degree 00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:05.546 had issue with the College of Nursing changed a lot over those five years. 00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:13.579 Not much the same program. The same uh curriculum was still in effect for 00:47:13.659 --> 00:47:18.497 the most part. And the thing was that more and more people wanted their 00:47:18.530 --> 00:47:22.517 master's degree because they needed it in order to care for certain groups 00:47:22.550 --> 00:47:26.677 of people in the community and public health was another one which was 00:47:26.710 --> 00:47:33.186 very important. The school has gotten a lot bigger. Yes, it had, it had 00:47:33.219 --> 00:47:39.146 grown and and had a new building the corner as I said across the street 00:47:39.179 --> 00:47:47.179 from the church on and right on on the edge of the property. It's one of 00:47:48.530 --> 00:47:54.296 the first buildings one comes into. Mm hmm. However, that is not a nursing 00:47:54.329 --> 00:47:59.097 building anymore. I understand. But it became, it was built as a nursing 00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:01.287 building 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:09.320 on university and university and whatever street that is. Yes, maybe just 00:48:09.969 --> 00:48:15.887 college and that was built to be a college of nursing and you know what 00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:21.256 year that was built? I think 65, it was finished. That was during the time 00:48:21.289 --> 00:48:24.677 you were gone, I was gone. So that looks like it would have looked a lot 00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:28.756 different than when you came back from the time when you left. Yeah. Yes, 00:48:28.789 --> 00:48:35.006 indeed it did. Do you remember how many students there were by then? It 00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:40.936 was a full house. I don't know exactly. I can't remember. I noticed on 00:48:40.969 --> 00:48:44.666 your vita here, you mentioned something about the Peace Corps. You haven't 00:48:44.699 --> 00:48:49.376 mentioned that. Oh well it wasn't really, I wasn't a member of the Peace 00:48:49.409 --> 00:48:54.706 Corps. I was an employee of the Peace Corps per se. Um that was the summer 00:48:54.739 --> 00:49:02.137 before I went to Chicago. And they are a group of people were going to 00:49:02.170 --> 00:49:07.876 Bolivia and so they had their training through the university on the 00:49:07.909 --> 00:49:15.909 indian reservation west of town. I think it was pema indians. And uh so I 00:49:16.309 --> 00:49:21.697 was in charge of the female proportion of the training group. What kind of 00:49:21.730 --> 00:49:27.126 training did you give them? You know, they visited families, they saw the 00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:31.376 kind of living conditions they had and tried to plan to implement, 00:49:31.409 --> 00:49:39.409 implement plans to help them in their, in their development as people and 00:49:39.619 --> 00:49:46.637 as a tribe? And we had an old school building out on the reservation um as 00:49:46.670 --> 00:49:54.670 far west and I can't remember uh the name of that area, but it was 00:49:56.070 --> 00:50:01.727 very far west and south and which is now incorporated into phoenix I'm 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:09.717 sure. But then it was just a reservation with Levine. Levine, it was just 00:50:09.750 --> 00:50:16.177 beyond Levine. Yeah, thank you for that information. And uh we went out 00:50:16.210 --> 00:50:21.026 every day and spent, I spent half a day there and then they did their 00:50:21.059 --> 00:50:26.557 other work in the afternoon visiting families and things like that. How 00:50:26.590 --> 00:50:33.126 did you get involved in that? I don't know, I 00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:39.197 don't know but but I was and the agricultural department was involved also 00:50:39.230 --> 00:50:46.427 because they were helping with teaching them uh huh better farming methods 00:50:46.460 --> 00:50:51.626 and many of them are still living in in their mud huts at that time on 00:50:51.659 --> 00:50:58.427 that reservation and some of them were drinking the water from the and 00:50:58.460 --> 00:51:06.157 canals that were there and uh as such, they had gotten some diseases which 00:51:06.190 --> 00:51:11.117 they didn't need to have if they had had to clean water. So those kinds of 00:51:11.150 --> 00:51:18.836 things came to the major areas that the Peace Corps was working with and 00:51:18.869 --> 00:51:22.847 I'm sure they followed through on much of that stuff when they went to in 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:27.677 south America? How long would they come here for their training? It was 00:51:27.710 --> 00:51:30.526 all summer. 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.526 So did you ever do anything more with the Peace Corps? Did you ever go 00:51:33.559 --> 00:51:36.227 overseas? 00:51:36.260 --> 00:51:39.227 I was just an employee. 00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:42.256 It sounds like an interesting job. Well it was interesting. It was it was 00:51:42.289 --> 00:51:45.546 really very nice and you could do that during the summer because the 00:51:45.579 --> 00:51:52.727 college wasn't busy. Yes we weren't offering courses uh and nursing and 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:58.506 but I did I was at the college in the afternoons for the most part and did 00:51:58.539 --> 00:52:03.287 interviews with students who were interested in coming to the program and 00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:07.597 setting up experiences for the fall for the students that were already in 00:52:07.630 --> 00:52:10.217 the program. 00:52:10.250 --> 00:52:16.646 So when you came back in 19, what was that, what year did you come back? I 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.816 think it was 67. 00:52:19.849 --> 00:52:24.376 And what what kind of work were you doing? You said you started the 00:52:24.409 --> 00:52:28.066 masters, Yes we started planning for the master's program then what did 00:52:28.099 --> 00:52:36.099 that entail defining the courses ah excluding the areas that were not 00:52:37.849 --> 00:52:45.849 ready at that time to be offered but still planning them and yeah some of 00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:50.316 the other faculty 00:52:50.349 --> 00:52:57.356 came, We're working also, some new faculty came at that time. And uh we 00:52:57.389 --> 00:53:03.717 planned again for the courses and when and how and who would offer them 00:53:03.750 --> 00:53:09.017 when it would be offered, how it would be developed and so forth. And how 00:53:09.050 --> 00:53:13.497 big was the school of nursing at that time? Was it a school of nursing 00:53:13.530 --> 00:53:21.530 college? It was college at that time? And uh I don't know, it was a we had 00:53:21.730 --> 00:53:27.876 a full class schedule. I know that and I I don't have the numbers exactly 00:53:27.909 --> 00:53:33.717 , but it was a full school. 00:53:33.750 --> 00:53:41.467 Who was the dean? The dean was Loretta Hannah was barred. Wick was still 00:53:41.500 --> 00:53:47.907 the dean at that time and who was the president of the university at that 00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:51.727 time? You know? I can't remember. I know the greater damage was still here 00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:58.387 when I first came. Uh But I cannot remember who was president at that time. 00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:02.807 Did you get to know Grady? Gammage. No, 00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:10.597 no I didn't. I knew his wife uh but I didn't know him and he died sometime 00:54:10.630 --> 00:54:17.347 after I was employed here and not too long after that. Yeah. So you didn't 00:54:17.380 --> 00:54:22.137 really have much association with the president of the university? I 00:54:22.170 --> 00:54:27.066 didn't until I started working on the graduate programs and then I had 00:54:27.099 --> 00:54:33.767 more contact with the graduate college. And when was that? Um When I first 00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:38.506 came back from Chicago, 00:54:38.539 --> 00:54:44.057 were you still teaching also? I didn't teach the first semester, but I did 00:54:44.090 --> 00:54:48.586 after that. And what courses did you teach? I taught human development and 00:54:48.619 --> 00:54:54.977 community health and the human development component was beginning with 00:54:55.010 --> 00:55:01.606 early childhood through adulthood and aging. 00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:06.907 What did community health entail? Um learning about the community and the 00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:14.940 health problems in the community and uh some home visits to determine what 00:55:16.139 --> 00:55:20.796 it was characteristic of different parts of the community. So was it 00:55:20.829 --> 00:55:26.396 tailored specifically to this community here? Yes it was. I mean not for 00:55:26.429 --> 00:55:32.296 you mean Tempe, what community was it tailored? Well the the whole fix in 00:55:32.329 --> 00:55:35.006 various areas. 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:39.037 Did you continue to work with some of the native american community? Yes 00:55:39.070 --> 00:55:46.506 some of the students did and some of the faculty did 00:55:46.539 --> 00:55:53.026 fortunately. And and at that time we had no program specifically for the 00:55:53.059 --> 00:55:59.546 indian population but we did have indian students and they were just 00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:04.416 marvelous to work with too because they wanted so much to to learn more 00:56:04.449 --> 00:56:09.037 about the total community. How many indian students roughly did you 00:56:09.070 --> 00:56:17.050 usually have? I think there were usually three or 4 in most of the classes. 00:56:17.619 --> 00:56:19.619 They were learning nursing skills where they planned to go back to their 00:56:21.820 --> 00:56:29.820 local community? Some did. Yes some did and some uh continued and got 00:56:31.250 --> 00:56:37.037 their master's degree and then they became real a real benefit to their 00:56:37.070 --> 00:56:41.137 communities that they went back to. We had some Navajo students. We had 00:56:41.170 --> 00:56:45.296 various students in that category. 00:56:45.329 --> 00:56:50.227 It was nice to be see them here. Did you actually go out and recruit 00:56:50.260 --> 00:56:55.856 native americans to come to school here? No we didn't. I don't think we 00:56:55.889 --> 00:57:02.796 did that. I don't recall it if we did. But they were certainly welcome. 00:57:02.829 --> 00:57:08.497 You said you hadn't planned to come back to A. S. U. Not necessarily. So 00:57:08.530 --> 00:57:14.876 when you came back were you planning to stay there very long. Yes I am. I 00:57:14.909 --> 00:57:21.686 did and I am, I can see that, but if some people say they only came plan 00:57:21.719 --> 00:57:25.387 to come for a couple of years and they're still here. So I wondered if you 00:57:25.420 --> 00:57:29.967 really were gonna come back and stay or? No, I I didn't plan to leave 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:38.000 necessarily. Mhm. Oh, mm hmm. Is your family still here? Yes. Part of this 00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:40.896 evening, 00:57:40.929 --> 00:57:48.929 Yeah. Mhm. So what were your career goals then at that time? Um 00:57:49.929 --> 00:57:54.086 my career goals were to do what I could for the College of Nursing and 00:57:54.119 --> 00:58:00.517 with the College of nursing and I was very interested in the program and I 00:58:00.550 --> 00:58:07.316 was delighted to be part of it and I was also pleased to have the 00:58:07.349 --> 00:58:13.477 opportunity to end my position and also in the courses I taught to start a 00:58:13.510 --> 00:58:20.086 nursing clinic for nurse practitioners which in the early 70s was just 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:25.327 beginning beginning to be talked about and there were very few nurse 00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:30.986 practitioners in the country at that time. So we started a program in 00:58:31.019 --> 00:58:37.916 nurse practitioner training and education and also started a clinic in 00:58:37.949 --> 00:58:45.949 Scottsdale which was used by the community and is still in operation. And 00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:52.186 now the there's also a new clinic and the new college building in phoenix 00:58:52.219 --> 00:58:57.407 which will be a service to the community while giving the students 00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:01.586 experience in being nurse practitioners. 00:59:01.619 --> 00:59:09.387 Okay, Alright, alright, this is tape to with ellie brands center. 00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:13.177 Um you started to tell us about the clinic that you started in Scottsdale 00:59:13.210 --> 00:59:17.736 , tell us a little more about that. How what was it like? Where was it? 00:59:17.769 --> 00:59:25.197 Well, we um we, the country was just beginning and particularly the 00:59:25.230 --> 00:59:29.896 division of nursing in Washington was just beginning to recognize the fact 00:59:29.929 --> 00:59:34.836 that nurses who are prepared appropriately and that's what the masters 00:59:34.869 --> 00:59:39.947 degree at least and some preparation and uh 00:59:39.980 --> 00:59:47.980 in home care and in patient care per se uh would really be a benefit to 00:59:49.969 --> 00:59:56.956 the total country. And so there was there were several movements through 00:59:56.989 --> 01:00:01.197 witchy, the organization which I mentioned before and also through the 01:00:01.230 --> 01:00:06.626 national organizations that we began to to educate nurses to be nurse 01:00:06.659 --> 01:00:13.407 practitioners. That is to do the fundamental assessments and treatments 01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:20.110 that nurses I couldn't do and can do. And we're already doing informally. 01:00:20.309 --> 01:00:22.309 And so we became interested in developing a program like that. But for the 01:00:26.340 --> 01:00:29.967 most part, the thing that was happening was for nurses indicated 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:38.000 interested students in that they were placed with physicians and their 01:00:38.199 --> 01:00:46.199 nursing instructor in some office and I felt and others in the faculty 01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:53.497 felt that nurses should be on their own and have the education and which 01:00:53.530 --> 01:00:58.717 would prepare them for taking care of people at the level which they were 01:00:58.750 --> 01:01:04.997 prepared to do, which was not to do doctoral, doctor type interventions, 01:01:05.030 --> 01:01:09.256 but nursing interventions. How do you distinguish what's the difference 01:01:09.289 --> 01:01:17.186 between a doctor? Well the nurse can do a lot of assessments and uh tens 01:01:17.219 --> 01:01:23.037 of diagnoses and treat mental conditions 01:01:23.070 --> 01:01:27.577 and do that sometimes 01:01:27.610 --> 01:01:34.637 very completely. I mean usually very completely. And uh then as the 01:01:34.670 --> 01:01:41.097 patient needs to see the physician or if the program is not adequate uh 01:01:41.130 --> 01:01:46.506 for what their problem is then they see the doctor. But it's sort of like 01:01:46.539 --> 01:01:50.677 a screening but it's a complete screening 01:01:50.710 --> 01:01:56.006 of what their illness or complaint is. And so tell me about the clinic 01:01:56.039 --> 01:02:01.666 that you started. Where was it at? It was located in the El camino area in 01:02:01.699 --> 01:02:08.896 in Scottsdale. And fortunately we were able to, they had, I didn't know it 01:02:08.929 --> 01:02:15.767 at the time but they had a room especially designed in their community 01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:22.927 building for that area for a clinic only they didn't know they thought it 01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:26.896 would be men by doctors or they didn't know for sure what they were going 01:02:26.929 --> 01:02:34.017 to do with it. So, uh we further explored that and found that it was, it 01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:40.307 would be a nice spot for us to have our training uh area and in the 01:02:40.340 --> 01:02:44.586 community for the students who are interested in becoming a nurse 01:02:44.619 --> 01:02:52.619 practitioners. So with some work with the community and the mm hmm. 01:02:53.300 --> 01:02:59.166 Indians, a lot of indians lived in that area and we're not eligible for 01:02:59.199 --> 01:03:01.867 care 01:03:01.900 --> 01:03:07.367 to the county or through any organization at that time. They later became 01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:14.117 accepted as a tribe and we now are able to receive there uh care through 01:03:14.150 --> 01:03:16.896 the indian service. 01:03:16.929 --> 01:03:23.896 The Yaqui indians. And so we had an agreement with the city or development 01:03:23.929 --> 01:03:31.126 agreement with the city to have that space and received some money from 01:03:31.159 --> 01:03:36.657 the state, from the medical program which was, I can't remember what the 01:03:36.690 --> 01:03:42.657 name of that program was. But it was a a federal program uh developed to 01:03:42.690 --> 01:03:46.936 go into communities and sort of define what their problems their health 01:03:46.969 --> 01:03:51.046 problems were. But that was closing down. And so we got some of their 01:03:51.079 --> 01:03:56.206 equipment Fortunately to the tune of about $3,000. I think it was worth 01:03:56.239 --> 01:04:04.239 that much when you got it. And then some physicians gave us some some exam 01:04:05.329 --> 01:04:11.197 tables. A couple of physicians that I happen to know gave us we're going 01:04:11.230 --> 01:04:17.887 out of practice and give us some equipment and so we worked with the 01:04:17.920 --> 01:04:23.646 community and with the city per se and opened our own little clinic with 01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:29.756 the county hospital or county health department also assisted with that. 01:04:29.789 --> 01:04:34.697 Yeah. So what was really the purpose of having a clinic there having 01:04:34.730 --> 01:04:41.356 students be able to practice their under the supervision of faculty. Uh 01:04:41.389 --> 01:04:47.956 And we had a physician consultant to begin with. So I guess your college 01:04:47.989 --> 01:04:51.706 of nursing at A. S. U. Didn't really have a medical school where they 01:04:51.739 --> 01:04:56.106 couldn't practice. So was that somewhat of a challenge for you? Uh Well 01:04:56.139 --> 01:05:04.139 yes the whole thing was a challenge but the community was pleased and uh 01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:11.816 finally I was able to get a grant written midst all of the things that 01:05:11.849 --> 01:05:19.026 were happening and we received almost $3 million dollars for the 01:05:19.059 --> 01:05:25.206 development of the clinic and the education of students through that 01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:27.907 practice. 01:05:27.940 --> 01:05:35.756 So when did that clinic open? Uh, again years uh, 01:05:35.789 --> 01:05:43.789 In 77 I think. Mm hmm. And our 75, no, we wrote, we finished writing it in 01:05:44.159 --> 01:05:48.956 75. They could not fund it then because of the office was moving the 01:05:48.989 --> 01:05:56.557 division of nursing in Washington. and so in 77 we were awarded the money 01:05:56.590 --> 01:06:02.807 and we're able to really, while we started before we had that the money on 01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:10.276 a very limited basis. We uh, It wasn't until 1977 when you really opened 01:06:10.309 --> 01:06:18.309 the doors for For 3, 5 days a week, uh, seeing patients. 01:06:19.130 --> 01:06:23.066 And what was your role with the clinic? Did you actually spend your time 01:06:23.099 --> 01:06:29.876 there? I was director of the project which, which 01:06:29.909 --> 01:06:36.066 provided the care there. So, and I had written the grant and, and um 01:06:36.099 --> 01:06:41.197 faculty and I had developed the extent of what we should do and what we 01:06:41.230 --> 01:06:48.126 shouldn't do. And so I was simply the director of the project. So did you 01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:56.159 work out of that? I did work out of their uh, in part simply facilitating 01:06:56.380 --> 01:07:00.066 what was happening there. I spent a lot of time going back and forth 01:07:00.099 --> 01:07:04.146 between a issue and the Scottsdale. Yes, 01:07:04.179 --> 01:07:08.497 that is very interesting And the people were so receptive and the students 01:07:08.530 --> 01:07:13.347 , uh, we're so glad to be able to practice on their own with, with the 01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:19.477 faculty there. And uh, it was very interesting. The community really loved 01:07:19.510 --> 01:07:24.747 it because they had no other source of care at that point, 01:07:24.780 --> 01:07:30.646 but anybody was welcome to come into the clinic at first we charged on a 01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:35.416 sliding fee scale And I think by the end of the total grant, we had 01:07:35.449 --> 01:07:43.449 something like 66 or $600 rather out of uh collection of fees. So that 01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:51.847 aspect had to be changed because the community uh was changing then also 01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:58.427 and some people had money and could pay for their care and we received 01:07:58.460 --> 01:08:04.546 some help from outside uh Saint Saint joseph or not ST joseph, but ST 01:08:04.579 --> 01:08:09.686 luke's hospital as a program which they paid for some patients who could 01:08:09.719 --> 01:08:14.137 not pay. 01:08:14.170 --> 01:08:17.937 Mhm. What are other, other students that didn't work at the clinic where 01:08:17.970 --> 01:08:22.357 did the students from me as you get their practical experience in various 01:08:22.390 --> 01:08:29.616 parts in the master's program or in all in general, in various hospitals 01:08:29.649 --> 01:08:34.847 throughout the community and various health and also the county health 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:41.737 department in various sites. So they had to do a lot of traveling. 01:08:41.770 --> 01:08:45.076 Was that a hardship for some students? It was hardship for some, but most 01:08:45.109 --> 01:08:50.687 of them were able to have cars, particularly the master students because 01:08:50.720 --> 01:08:57.137 they were more mature students usually already graduate with a bachelor's 01:08:57.170 --> 01:09:04.586 degree and some of them were mothers, a lot of Children and knowledgeable 01:09:04.619 --> 01:09:10.267 about Children too. So were most of the students at the college of nursing 01:09:10.300 --> 01:09:14.286 than students that came into the program right from high school or did 01:09:14.319 --> 01:09:20.706 they come later in life? Uh They both both, many of them came right into 01:09:20.739 --> 01:09:24.527 the program and did the bachelor's program first and then moved directly 01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:29.706 into the Master's program. Others had been practicing for a while and I 01:09:29.739 --> 01:09:35.456 think this is still true and and decided to continue their uh nationals 01:09:35.489 --> 01:09:37.536 degree 01:09:37.569 --> 01:09:41.807 or the students primarily women or did you get some men that we had a few 01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:47.296 men? Not many to begin with. I think there are more now and I don't know 01:09:47.329 --> 01:09:51.887 numbers, but I know that there are more male students in the program now 01:09:51.920 --> 01:09:56.376 than than we had at the beginning 01:09:56.409 --> 01:10:00.727 and there are definitely more indian students because there's an indian 01:10:00.760 --> 01:10:08.046 education program and in effect. And one of our previous students who was 01:10:08.079 --> 01:10:14.427 director of nursing at the 01:10:14.460 --> 01:10:19.857 hospital, not at the hospital at the university Study University, the 01:10:19.890 --> 01:10:27.890 college in in uh. Mhm. Nasa now is in charge of that indian education 01:10:29.970 --> 01:10:37.970 program? And she still is in the same building that over on university 01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:45.017 with her little student group. Mhm. Oh is there any special events from 01:10:45.050 --> 01:10:52.406 your career here at issue that stands out in your mind. Thank you. No, I 01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:59.597 guess all of them were exciting for me enjoyed enjoying it and I suppose 01:10:59.630 --> 01:11:06.786 the development of the master's program and the development of the clinic 01:11:06.819 --> 01:11:13.427 was two things that that I'm particularly still interested in. 01:11:13.460 --> 01:11:17.517 I noticed on your vita that you mentioned that you were the assistant dean 01:11:17.550 --> 01:11:23.017 a couple of times. How did that come about? Uh I guess it came about 01:11:23.050 --> 01:11:30.737 because the dean needed somebody to help and uh I happened to be there. I 01:11:30.770 --> 01:11:36.006 was aware of most of the programs that were going on within the college 01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:38.626 and 01:11:38.659 --> 01:11:43.946 he was simply there. Um What you meant Loretta was the dean when she hired 01:11:43.979 --> 01:11:51.487 you. What other other deans have you had? Um We had after Loretta left we 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:55.126 had another dean, 01:11:55.159 --> 01:11:59.027 we had um 01:11:59.060 --> 01:12:02.517 one of the Dean's was 01:12:02.550 --> 01:12:08.517 the recent one before. Our current dean is 01:12:08.550 --> 01:12:14.656 gosh I can't remember her name now. She was with us about five years and I 01:12:14.689 --> 01:12:19.607 was out of the program for most of those years after I retired. I did go 01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:27.640 back to help part time and with the master's programs but uh it turned out 01:12:28.689 --> 01:12:33.767 not to be really part time as those jobs sellers do. So I can't remember. 01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:39.296 But and then we had you know, I can't remember those scenes scenes. I'm 01:12:39.329 --> 01:12:46.487 sorry they weren't just memorable. No. No. Well Janelle Krueger was the 01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:52.817 next one I think and she was she was very nice. 01:12:52.850 --> 01:12:58.137 Did you work pretty closely with the dean's? Yes, because I was in charge 01:12:58.170 --> 01:13:05.439 of the master's programs in general and I did work very closely with them. 01:13:06.649 --> 01:13:08.649 What is it about the College of nursing that you that you think makes it a 01:13:10.750 --> 01:13:13.217 special program? 01:13:13.250 --> 01:13:18.496 Well I think it's a special program because it's providing an education 01:13:18.529 --> 01:13:21.817 for for 01:13:21.850 --> 01:13:26.737 students who are really interested in working with the community and with 01:13:26.770 --> 01:13:32.517 people who need a nursing care and healthcare in general health 01:13:32.550 --> 01:13:38.616 instruction. So I think it's valuable 01:13:38.649 --> 01:13:46.649 program which is used by all society because if one is ill, you certainly 01:13:46.979 --> 01:13:53.866 would like to have a nurse who is and a doctor also and other people who 01:13:53.899 --> 01:13:57.916 are qualified and competent 01:13:57.949 --> 01:14:02.876 I think and I think their work with the community is very important. Mhm. 01:14:02.909 --> 01:14:07.706 Does that make a s you different than other colleges of nursing? 01:14:07.739 --> 01:14:14.097 Uh No, I don't think so, it depends on the focus of the different colleges 01:14:14.130 --> 01:14:20.706 , but I think the purpose is generally the same. 01:14:20.739 --> 01:14:25.097 Mhm. It looks like you've seen the college change obviously from the 01:14:25.130 --> 01:14:30.387 beginning um you know, when did you move part of the college up to the 01:14:30.420 --> 01:14:35.027 community services building where we are today, That happened after I left 01:14:35.060 --> 01:14:42.687 ? Uh I think they had one office or two offices over here during that last 01:14:42.720 --> 01:14:48.406 year I was here, but they just simply simply ran out of space. 01:14:48.439 --> 01:14:51.717 What do you think about the move that they're they're working on now to 01:14:51.750 --> 01:14:57.937 move the whole college downtown? I think it's already there and that I 01:14:57.970 --> 01:15:05.970 hope it works. Um I think that it will be a while before the the whole 01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:12.956 building is utilized as they hope because it is a change and but maybe it 01:15:12.989 --> 01:15:17.706 will draw more students from the phoenix area. 01:15:17.739 --> 01:15:22.397 Mm hmm. It looks it's a beautiful building. It's certainly much different 01:15:22.430 --> 01:15:26.586 from having it on the college campus here. Well, yes. And I have a 01:15:26.619 --> 01:15:33.427 personal preference. I would like to see the nursing students being able 01:15:33.460 --> 01:15:38.937 to intermingle satisfactorily satisfactorily with the rest of the students 01:15:38.970 --> 01:15:43.546 in the university because I think it broadens their viewpoint in their 01:15:43.579 --> 01:15:49.307 whole aspect of of what education is about. 01:15:49.340 --> 01:15:57.340 Did did you have while you were here a campus on the west side? Did you? 01:15:57.909 --> 01:16:03.406 They started a campus on the west side. Yes. While I was still here and 01:16:03.439 --> 01:16:09.477 that was very successful and is still very successful. It's growing a lot. 01:16:09.510 --> 01:16:15.586 And it had its own school of nursing. It was it was this called the 01:16:15.619 --> 01:16:21.467 College of Nursing A. S. U. West. So they taught most of the courses on 01:16:21.500 --> 01:16:29.397 the upper level, the for the students. So they had student practice there 01:16:29.430 --> 01:16:34.696 and in that general area and there's some very good hospitals there in 01:16:34.729 --> 01:16:38.916 that area to which allow the students to get the kind of practice they 01:16:38.949 --> 01:16:45.156 need there. And so of course the health department is everywhere in the 01:16:45.189 --> 01:16:50.597 county. Well we're here today about there being such a shortage of nurses. 01:16:50.630 --> 01:16:55.996 It's true. How do you feel about that? I think that it would be nice if 01:16:56.029 --> 01:17:02.836 there weren't nurses. Uh But what do you mean? Why do you think there is a 01:17:02.869 --> 01:17:07.956 shortage of nurses? People are becoming more aware of their health needs. 01:17:07.989 --> 01:17:14.196 I think for one thing and hospitals are growing and and people are getting 01:17:14.229 --> 01:17:21.796 older and the older population, do you need more 01:17:21.829 --> 01:17:27.076 attention to their health? I think that's not for all of the population. 01:17:27.109 --> 01:17:31.717 But that's true generally and 01:17:31.750 --> 01:17:36.496 there just aren't enough people who are interested in going into nursing 01:17:36.529 --> 01:17:43.527 or was a few years back and now that it's a popular thing to do. The 01:17:43.560 --> 01:17:50.616 schools are all receiving more applications than they can take care of. So 01:17:50.649 --> 01:17:54.246 do you think that schools need to to expand and be able to I think they'll 01:17:54.279 --> 01:18:00.687 have to or there will be more shortages. You were at the college during 01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:05.576 the time in the late 70s when women more women started becoming doctors 01:18:05.609 --> 01:18:10.046 instead of nurses. Did you see a change then when women were more able to 01:18:10.079 --> 01:18:17.387 become doctors of? Yes, I think that's true, that didn't happen and and 01:18:17.420 --> 01:18:23.137 still is happening and that's fine. Uh You know, I think it's good that we 01:18:23.170 --> 01:18:29.387 have our own doctors and even Hilary is running for president. 01:18:29.420 --> 01:18:34.807 So they're women are getting more and more into every occupation. Do you 01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:40.786 think women make better doctors than men sometimes or? Well there are male 01:18:40.819 --> 01:18:45.826 doctors that are fine and they're female doctors that are fine. But I 01:18:45.859 --> 01:18:50.656 don't know do you think that hurt the nursing profession when women 01:18:50.689 --> 01:18:54.826 started becoming doctors? That it was kind of like maybe maybe that's part 01:18:54.859 --> 01:18:57.086 of the problem, 01:18:57.119 --> 01:19:02.036 but I think that many other occupations became available to women and they 01:19:02.069 --> 01:19:07.876 broaden their perspective of what they might be able to do. So there were 01:19:07.909 --> 01:19:14.086 more women in various areas and then there were, 01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:18.546 when you became a nurse, there weren't that many options. I know you 01:19:18.579 --> 01:19:25.296 probably were actually, I wanted to be an aviator. I thought it would be 01:19:25.329 --> 01:19:30.826 wonderful to fly an airplane and my mother said no, so that's settled that. 01:19:30.859 --> 01:19:35.446 But uh and I thought about becoming a teacher, but I really wanted to be 01:19:35.479 --> 01:19:40.487 a nurse, but those were the two professions that were acceptable, 01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:47.567 generally speaking teaching and and uh at least where I lived, there were 01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:53.527 not any other avenues for women very much. They were secretaries and they 01:19:53.560 --> 01:20:01.560 were teachers or are even nursing was limited in those days. 01:20:02.510 --> 01:20:06.967 So how do you feel about all the changes that you've seen? Well, I think 01:20:07.000 --> 01:20:14.206 change is wonderful if it's if it's good change and uh otherwise I I feel 01:20:14.239 --> 01:20:18.777 all of society is constantly trying to adjust all the changes we have. 01:20:18.810 --> 01:20:22.977 Don't you think, Okay, 01:20:23.010 --> 01:20:27.977 did you ever think that you'd see a s you grow to become as big as it is? 01:20:28.010 --> 01:20:34.477 Well, I didn't think about it, but it certainly is has grown, hasn't it? 01:20:34.510 --> 01:20:38.876 And the programs are really very well thought through. I think it's a 01:20:38.909 --> 01:20:41.177 great university. 01:20:41.210 --> 01:20:45.756 Can you sort of just describe the changes that you've seen that just at 01:20:45.789 --> 01:20:48.977 the College of nursing? 01:20:49.010 --> 01:20:56.296 Well it's it's grown larger certainly and otherwise I think the basics are 01:20:56.329 --> 01:21:02.567 the same. Only there are different approaches to educating the students in 01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:07.366 in different areas and I think that's fine too. What kind of different 01:21:07.399 --> 01:21:10.076 approaches? Well 01:21:10.109 --> 01:21:15.777 it used to be that there had to be a a faculty immediately with a student 01:21:15.810 --> 01:21:21.616 all the time or merely all the time. But now the students are given 01:21:21.649 --> 01:21:29.307 directions and given an introduction to an area and are more on their own 01:21:29.340 --> 01:21:34.847 and then they report back to their instructor and that's fine. As long as 01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:39.777 the students have adequate preparation 01:21:39.810 --> 01:21:43.177 as the whole field of nursing, it seems like become more complicated as 01:21:43.210 --> 01:21:47.777 medicine has become more sophisticated. 01:21:47.810 --> 01:21:55.810 I think the basics in nursing remained the same. Um The nurse is able to 01:21:56.029 --> 01:22:04.029 understand and do more now than they were earlier days and it was more 01:22:04.500 --> 01:22:10.576 sort of in the early days more folk medicine because they didn't know more 01:22:10.609 --> 01:22:16.067 and the doctors didn't know more either, what are the basics of nursing 01:22:16.100 --> 01:22:24.100 competency and understanding health and illness and what kinds of things 01:22:24.859 --> 01:22:32.859 promote health versus uh the things that promote illness and being able to 01:22:34.300 --> 01:22:40.647 be knowledgeable about the new developments in medicine and in nursing to 01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:46.876 take care of the patient and two be available at the level that the 01:22:46.909 --> 01:22:51.767 patient needs to be helped. 01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:57.067 What's the best memory that you have of A. S. U. 01:22:57.100 --> 01:23:02.467 They were all very pleasant memories. I really don't have any complaints. 01:23:02.500 --> 01:23:10.067 So I don't have any worst memories issue. Well it was it was a wonderful 01:23:10.100 --> 01:23:16.807 place to work for me. I liked it and I liked the people I worked with and 01:23:16.840 --> 01:23:22.256 the the people that I didn't work with too much. For instance I think that 01:23:22.289 --> 01:23:26.477 the people in the graduate college were so helpful when we were developing 01:23:26.510 --> 01:23:33.767 that masters program. They were just wonderful. And uh so it was helpful 01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:38.067 to the whole college and therefore to the whole community. 01:23:38.100 --> 01:23:42.277 Are there any particular students that stand out in your mind? Oh yes. 01:23:42.310 --> 01:23:50.246 Many of them. Well we've we've had some wonderful indian students who I 01:23:50.279 --> 01:23:54.427 was so pleased that that they were able to be in and do the master's 01:23:54.460 --> 01:24:02.460 program and then become leaders themselves in their own areas and that I'm 01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:07.237 particularly impressed by then. We didn't have very many black students 01:24:07.270 --> 01:24:12.946 and I'm sorry about that. I don't know why I guess the recruitment it 01:24:12.979 --> 01:24:19.557 wasn't geared towards towards the black student. I don't know we had some 01:24:19.590 --> 01:24:25.406 which was good and we had students from different countries and that was 01:24:25.439 --> 01:24:29.427 an exciting, exciting thing for the whole college because we learned from 01:24:29.460 --> 01:24:34.357 them and they learned from us? Why would they come from other countries? 01:24:34.390 --> 01:24:37.656 Because they hear about the program? 01:24:37.689 --> 01:24:43.536 Do they come to become nurses here or to go home and to go home mainly 01:24:43.569 --> 01:24:48.347 about the mexican american nurses. And we've had plenty of those and 01:24:48.380 --> 01:24:53.996 they've all been wonderful. They've gone back to their communities or 01:24:54.029 --> 01:25:01.857 stayed in the community there in and or just sought new jobs depending 01:25:01.890 --> 01:25:05.987 upon their preference for and their reason for being here in the first 01:25:06.020 --> 01:25:10.656 place. 01:25:10.689 --> 01:25:14.557 How would you like to be remembered by the people of the College of 01:25:14.590 --> 01:25:16.857 nursing? 01:25:16.890 --> 01:25:19.057 Um 01:25:19.090 --> 01:25:27.090 Well if anybody chooses to remember me, I would like them to think of me 01:25:27.270 --> 01:25:32.857 as as someone who was a friend of theirs. 01:25:32.890 --> 01:25:37.817 I suppose. I have had a couple of people who didn't like me very well but 01:25:37.850 --> 01:25:44.196 I don't know, I mean everybody does if you're in a position of 01:25:44.229 --> 01:25:49.156 responsibility but 01:25:49.189 --> 01:25:54.477 they could think of me as they wish. No. Is there anything that that you 01:25:54.510 --> 01:25:58.027 accomplished something You did a lot of things over the years? So that 01:25:58.060 --> 01:26:00.546 your proudest? 01:26:00.579 --> 01:26:06.607 I think probably getting the program going in the first place when I first 01:26:06.640 --> 01:26:13.046 came back to the issue and I think that was really, we really worked on on 01:26:13.079 --> 01:26:19.046 that the those few of us who were here and also the establishment of the 01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:25.996 Master's Program which was a hard thing to do. Initially we had to put a 01:26:26.029 --> 01:26:30.206 lot of work in on that and then the clinic, 01:26:30.239 --> 01:26:35.097 the development of the clinic and the whole concept of having the student 01:26:35.130 --> 01:26:39.147 be able to become a nurse practitioner. 01:26:39.180 --> 01:26:43.786 Was that pretty new when you started? Yes it was 01:26:43.819 --> 01:26:47.217 is that different? That's different than a physician's assistant? Yes it 01:26:47.250 --> 01:26:52.746 is because they have a broader education than the physician physician's 01:26:52.779 --> 01:27:00.779 assistant. They have the whole earlier Masters Bachelor Bachelor of 01:27:01.029 --> 01:27:07.177 Science in nursing and the Master's in nursing in addition to the other uh 01:27:07.210 --> 01:27:12.347 material that they get as being a nurse practitioner. 01:27:12.380 --> 01:27:16.916 Did you ever miss actually doing hands on nursing as you became more 01:27:16.949 --> 01:27:22.246 involved in running the college? Uh No because I did occasionally get into 01:27:22.279 --> 01:27:29.527 that. Uh I can't say that. I didn't really miss it because I was so 01:27:29.560 --> 01:27:33.376 involved with other things which which helped other people to do those 01:27:33.409 --> 01:27:36.246 things. 01:27:36.279 --> 01:27:39.687 What kind of advice would you give to young people that are starting off 01:27:39.720 --> 01:27:43.876 trying to decide what they want to do as a career or what they want to do 01:27:43.909 --> 01:27:51.177 with their lives? Well I think that that if they aren't sure they need to 01:27:51.210 --> 01:27:58.847 make up their mind if they can and if they can't then most of them do 01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:03.506 enroll in college and while they're trying to decide, I mean many of them 01:28:03.539 --> 01:28:09.727 do what they really want to do and I think if they really pick something 01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:14.597 that they like and they want to do, they should devote their efforts to 01:28:14.630 --> 01:28:21.956 finding out what's entailed in that and to make a decision and and go for 01:28:21.989 --> 01:28:24.557 it. 01:28:24.590 --> 01:28:27.166 I think I've covered most of the questions I had for you. Is there 01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:30.017 anything you wanted to tell us that I didn't ask? You know, I think you've 01:28:30.050 --> 01:28:36.836 covered everything and more bob. Did you have anything you wanted to ask 01:28:36.869 --> 01:28:43.427 you? You mentioned doing quite a bit of research? Yeah. 01:28:43.460 --> 01:28:49.357 Some of that research happened in the issue or or if you publish Yes, I 01:28:49.390 --> 01:28:57.390 did publish most of the research. I was Oh, okay. Yes. Um um I did was 01:29:00.609 --> 01:29:05.626 involved with research at at the University of Chicago and the topic that 01:29:05.659 --> 01:29:09.637 I did. My main research in was 01:29:09.670 --> 01:29:17.670 the hospitalized child and three I had three groups, 1 who had a sit her 01:29:18.829 --> 01:29:23.536 with her or someone who was a mother substitute and the child who had his 01:29:23.569 --> 01:29:31.569 mother with with her or him and the child who had nobody there to comfort 01:29:31.970 --> 01:29:37.536 in. And I did a comparison of those three groups. And it took me forever 01:29:37.569 --> 01:29:42.196 to get it done because I observed in the hospital recorded those 01:29:42.229 --> 01:29:50.229 observations and then um Compared to three groups and I found that the 01:29:52.699 --> 01:29:57.647 child who did not have anybody with them, of course you might expect was 01:29:57.680 --> 01:30:03.177 very sad and lonely child. And the child who had the substitute mother 01:30:03.210 --> 01:30:10.597 with her or him. Uh we're as happy and as satisfied as a child who had the 01:30:10.630 --> 01:30:16.277 mother with them for a period of they all had to be in the hospital of at 01:30:16.310 --> 01:30:22.956 least two weeks. And so uh it's if the mother can't be there, having a 01:30:22.989 --> 01:30:29.567 substitute person there is equally as is happy for the child is and the 01:30:29.600 --> 01:30:34.637 child is satisfied and does not suffer as much as you might think. But 01:30:34.670 --> 01:30:40.326 having no one, they did, they did interesting. 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:46.147 It's an interesting but lengthy study getting the three groups at the same 01:30:46.180 --> 01:30:51.326 age as the in a similar hospital and so forth. 01:30:51.359 --> 01:30:55.987 Anything else? But did you have anything you wanted to ask? You know? I 01:30:56.020 --> 01:31:02.017 think we've covered. Well thank you. Thank you, Grill me some more. I 01:31:02.050 --> 01:31:07.326 don't know anything else. It's been very interesting. 01:31:07.359 --> 01:31:09.359 Okay.