WEBVTT 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:06.040 Hello. This is a group of three A. S. U. Former administrators that have 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:18.956 come to talk a little bit and leave a little bit of oral history about the 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:24.887 growth of a issue And what happened during our tenure here at A. S. U. So 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:30.826 I'm gonna introduce myself. I'm Brent Brown. I've been on the faculty of a 00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:34.107 issue since 1972 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:40.967 and I retired as a professor in the school of public affairs and I served 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:46.987 12 years as the vice president of institutional advancement here at A. S. 00:00:47.020 --> 00:00:55.020 U. And to my right is frank Saxton who joined us in the 70's and has held 00:00:57.340 --> 00:01:02.006 various positions at A. S. U. Which we will talk a little bit more about. 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:09.596 And in fact he is still a a teacher at the university and in the school 00:01:09.629 --> 00:01:16.656 of public affairs and still teaches a class. And then across from me is 00:01:16.689 --> 00:01:21.516 Russ nelson who is the former president of Arizona State University during 00:01:21.549 --> 00:01:28.796 the period of extreme growth is the way to describe it. So we'd like to 00:01:28.829 --> 00:01:33.066 kind of just have a general roundhouse discussion and see if we can't 00:01:33.099 --> 00:01:38.507 leave a little bit of history on the tapes so that future generations can 00:01:38.540 --> 00:01:43.387 roll those tapes and learn a little bit more about A S. U. When we become 00:01:43.420 --> 00:01:47.807 were already the biggest university in the country but maybe even more 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:54.376 growth in the future. So I'm gonna start it off by telling just a little 00:01:54.409 --> 00:01:59.076 bit about about my history and then I'd ask each one of you to do the same. 00:01:59.109 --> 00:02:04.036 I came to the university, I was here as a student And I received my 00:02:04.069 --> 00:02:08.307 master's degree from here in 1968. 00:02:08.340 --> 00:02:13.256 And then I went on and got my PhD from the University of Illinois And I 00:02:13.289 --> 00:02:20.006 came back as a young assistant professor started in 1972. 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:24.577 And one of the first things I worked on was 00:02:24.610 --> 00:02:29.207 the possibility of separating out from the department of Political Science 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:35.406 , the public administration program. I was young. And then until you heard 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:41.446 and uh, I didn't have a, a lot of knowledge about how the university 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:47.626 worked, but we were successful and if I, if we hadn't have been, I would 00:02:47.659 --> 00:02:52.327 have been a, a one or two year person at this university. But instead it 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:58.237 worked out And three of us John Hall, Larry Mankin and myself. We started 00:02:58.270 --> 00:03:02.487 the School of Public Affairs. It was then called the Center for Public 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.867 Administration, but it was separated from the Department of Political 00:03:05.900 --> 00:03:13.557 Science in that year and then I went on to serve as the first director of 00:03:13.590 --> 00:03:20.506 that. And then I served for some time serving down and under the governor 00:03:20.539 --> 00:03:25.376 of Arizona governor, Raul Castro, I was the head of the Office of Economic 00:03:25.409 --> 00:03:31.077 Planning and Development. Then I came back to the university and started 00:03:31.110 --> 00:03:37.446 as a, has kind of a lobbyist for the university. And eventually Russ 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:42.726 nelson chose me to be the vice president of University Relations and that 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:49.446 started us on a, on a road that we had lots of problems and lots of 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:56.376 opportunities. And I think we, we did a reasonable job of attacking those 00:03:56.409 --> 00:04:02.087 problems and making the university move forward. So Russ, Why don't you 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.376 tell us a little bit about your tenure here at Arizona State University? 00:04:05.409 --> 00:04:11.386 Well, I'm Russ nelson and I came here from the University of colorado in 00:04:11.419 --> 00:04:18.817 july On July 1 19 81 00:04:18.850 --> 00:04:26.850 to become president following the departure of john Suada. And 00:04:26.939 --> 00:04:31.976 it's, it was an amazing experience to move here from the University of 00:04:32.009 --> 00:04:37.406 colorado, which is a relatively mature institution 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:45.439 and to come into a school in the ferment as I would characterize the 00:04:45.930 --> 00:04:52.507 development of the, of Arizona State University large 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:58.606 under housed under parked uh, 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.606 and with 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:09.176 major opportunities to develop into a great university that needed to be 00:05:09.209 --> 00:05:16.067 exploited and I spent nine years, nine years, eight years as president of 00:05:16.100 --> 00:05:24.100 the university and had a glorious time here. Okay, frank, I'm, I'm Frank's 00:05:25.860 --> 00:05:33.517 Acton and I came to Arizona in 1970 and at that time the governor, Jack 00:05:33.550 --> 00:05:39.777 Williams was looking for a a budget person and I had finished four years, 00:05:39.810 --> 00:05:44.877 my last assignment in the military as the control of the army and I had 00:05:44.910 --> 00:05:50.906 some experience in money matters. So he took me out as a special assistant 00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:57.027 and I helped him in getting these grants that were very prevalent then 00:05:57.060 --> 00:06:03.127 from Washington demonstration grants and other kinds of grants that 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:10.017 carried uh, money with them And it was a very exciting time which I watch 00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:16.017 I enjoyed. Well Governor Jack Williams left office after he had been 00:06:16.050 --> 00:06:22.546 governor for eight years. I had served with a little over 3.5 years and I 00:06:22.579 --> 00:06:27.467 wondered what I would do with myself. I want to keep active. So I picked 00:06:27.500 --> 00:06:33.127 up the G. I. Bill and went back to school. And the first person I saw was 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:38.437 Brett Brown. Yes. So I could get some advice on how I would start 00:06:38.470 --> 00:06:42.457 schooling in public administration, which was the discipline in which I 00:06:42.490 --> 00:06:48.476 was interested. And Brett Brown guided me into the classes that I should 00:06:48.509 --> 00:06:53.726 take it at the same time. So that he said I would have a little income. He 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:59.007 made me his teaching assistants 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:03.257 and he was a pretty good boss because he let me teach a little bit as well 00:07:03.290 --> 00:07:10.306 his classes. And that was a very, very enjoyable association that I had. 00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:16.806 Well then Brett Brown left to go to the Governor's office as he mentioned. 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:24.507 And that left vacant. The teaching of governmental budgeting. And I was 00:07:24.540 --> 00:07:32.116 there and I had been his assistant. So I moved into that by default. And 00:07:32.149 --> 00:07:39.577 I've been teaching ever since. I never never lost sight of it. But in 00:07:39.610 --> 00:07:45.187 addition to teaching, which I have taught the entire type since Brett left 00:07:45.220 --> 00:07:50.406 to go to the President's office. I have had other assignments. As a matter 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:56.687 of fact, you gave me some rather difficult assignments as I recall, which 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:01.757 were challenges and we went through those in good shape I think. And the 00:08:01.790 --> 00:08:05.767 thing about which I'm very very proud and I thought about it only recently 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:12.296 during these interviews that Although I bid at the university in our 00:08:12.329 --> 00:08:20.329 faculty four 26 years now doing odd jobs that have been assigned to me. I 00:08:20.670 --> 00:08:26.056 have have been and continue to teach a minimum of one class a semester and 00:08:26.089 --> 00:08:31.846 I haven't broken that record as since I came to the university, things 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:36.717 have changed in teaching. The students are more sophisticated that 00:08:36.750 --> 00:08:43.246 requires the professor too be a little bit more innovative And uh I think 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:48.506 some of the major changes I might mention. 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:54.116 Students don't learn very much from lectures. So I if I have lectures I'd 00:08:54.149 --> 00:08:58.827 keep the ver very short uh Students read the textbook but they have a 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:04.667 short term memory of what they read and giving them an examination is only 00:09:04.700 --> 00:09:10.457 a spot in time knowledge so we don't do that anymore. We take the 00:09:10.490 --> 00:09:17.827 literature and create case studies and then the the student has to solve 00:09:17.860 --> 00:09:21.417 the case study. But the sound of case study, the student must be well 00:09:21.450 --> 00:09:27.167 versed with the text from which the material has come. But also the big 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:34.096 changes that I have seen kidnapped uh teaching also of course. Now we have 00:09:34.129 --> 00:09:41.427 the internet at all the electronic equipment and the students up. Are you 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:46.896 using these new devices and I think they're much more knowledgeable, much 00:09:46.929 --> 00:09:53.096 more self sufficient, much more innovative in what they do. It's been it's 00:09:53.129 --> 00:09:58.386 been a great run to watch the happenings in teaching, particularly in the 00:09:58.419 --> 00:10:05.226 last 26 years. I'm gonna tell one little story Frank about when you first 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:11.476 we first met and you came out and wanted to know about the public 00:10:11.509 --> 00:10:17.626 administration program. And During our conversation I learned that you 00:10:17.659 --> 00:10:25.659 were a three star general and that was a little bit intimidating and I was 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:31.157 a little worried because during my tenure at the University of Illinois, I 00:10:31.190 --> 00:10:39.190 had been an anti war protester and uh I was worried that you and I might 00:10:39.529 --> 00:10:45.417 not be compatible in in our in our belief systems, but as I learned as 00:10:45.450 --> 00:10:51.217 time went on, you you were a certainly in addition to the faculty at A. S 00:10:51.250 --> 00:10:57.547 . U. And taught me so many things. But you recommended that you take my 00:10:57.580 --> 00:11:03.927 class in budgeting not knowing that you had served under McNamara who was 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:08.967 the head of the Defense Department at that time. And he was trying to 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:14.636 institute a P. P. B. S. System in the military and you were in charge of 00:11:14.669 --> 00:11:20.677 that. So you knew more about that whole budgeting system than I would ever 00:11:20.710 --> 00:11:27.606 know. And it didn't take me long to understand that not only should you be 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:31.976 my teaching assistant but you should be teaching the class which you have 00:11:32.009 --> 00:11:36.896 done for many years so successfully. But I was a little bit intimidated 00:11:36.929 --> 00:11:40.766 when I found out that you were a three star general and I was a young 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:46.287 professor whose claim to fame had been in protest at the university of 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:50.486 Illinois for that particular war. I don't know that I've ever admitted 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:55.667 that to you, but it's been long enough now that I can lay it out on the 00:11:55.700 --> 00:12:00.356 table that I was, I was worried that we might not be compatible. But over 00:12:00.389 --> 00:12:04.167 the years we've remained very good friends Brett, we never discussed the 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:09.106 war. The war that was going on then was the war in Vietnam. We never 00:12:09.139 --> 00:12:13.746 discussed it. Otherwise I would have revealed that I was against it was 00:12:13.779 --> 00:12:20.236 rotten war, the wrong place, fighting the wrong people. And it's 00:12:20.269 --> 00:12:27.657 interesting that in recent years now President Lyndon johnson agreed it 00:12:27.690 --> 00:12:32.307 was allows his war, but he didn't know how to get out of it because there 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:36.927 was no, there was no exit plan. I would have been less intimidated if I'd 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:41.516 have known that frank at that time. I'm gonna tell Russ something that I 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:45.256 ran across just the other day as I was going through some of my papers and 00:12:45.289 --> 00:12:50.236 I had written it on a yellow pad when you and I first met and I had three 00:12:50.269 --> 00:12:55.356 things written on there that this university would have to take care of to 00:12:55.389 --> 00:13:01.996 maintain our our position in the community and to advance ourselves And 00:13:02.029 --> 00:13:08.657 one was we would have to do something about a campus at A. S. U. West at 00:13:08.690 --> 00:13:13.386 West. We didn't have a campus then. And I'd like you both to talk about 00:13:13.419 --> 00:13:16.687 that because you were involved in it. I think you were commissioned to do 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:22.476 a study frank and I'll tell a little bit about kind of how that came about 00:13:22.509 --> 00:13:28.417 and you can add to it to rust. And secondly, I said that we had to do 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:33.037 something about pro football and Sun Devil stadium. And then the third 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:39.317 thing was we had to make sure that we got more mexican americans on campus 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:46.256 and did something in that regards. So I'd like to have you discussed the A. 00:13:46.289 --> 00:13:50.116 S. U. West and then we'll come back to the others. And the fourth thing 00:13:50.149 --> 00:13:54.187 that intervened is kind of tied in with the stadium was the problems we 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:59.736 had in the athletic department over those intervening years. But as I 00:13:59.769 --> 00:14:05.096 remember it Russ and you can help me fill in the gaps that ASU West had 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:11.437 been on the agenda for some time. There had been a failed effort under 00:14:11.470 --> 00:14:17.136 President Durham and it had left a bitter taste in a lot of the 00:14:17.169 --> 00:14:21.957 legislator's minds and in the community and there was a lot of pressure to 00:14:21.990 --> 00:14:27.016 do something about that. And so we had kind of circled around and hadn't 00:14:27.049 --> 00:14:33.207 really committed ourselves and we're we're exploring and doing some things 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.787 and I got a phone call from stan turley. I was then the lobbyist for the 00:14:36.820 --> 00:14:40.707 university and 00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:43.756 president turley at that time, he was the president of the Senate and he 00:14:43.789 --> 00:14:50.567 needed a very crucial vote from Lela Alston in order to move some budget 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:55.996 matter forward. I think it was on the sales tax increase in the sales tax. 00:14:56.029 --> 00:15:00.307 And Leila told him that he wouldn't have a vote until he did something 00:15:00.340 --> 00:15:06.996 about a west campus. And so he phoned me and said, I'm ready to go on it. 00:15:07.029 --> 00:15:11.636 If you guys can commit. He says I will commit and we'll get this process 00:15:11.669 --> 00:15:17.577 started. And I came back and talked to you and you convened some other 00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:22.396 vice presidents and we had a little meeting in the office and the way I 00:15:22.429 --> 00:15:27.547 remember it, I laid it out and one of the other vice president says, well 00:15:27.580 --> 00:15:31.067 yeah, I think maybe we ought to get a committee together and study this 00:15:31.100 --> 00:15:34.697 and maybe come up with some kind of a recommendation. 00:15:34.730 --> 00:15:39.776 And I said no you don't understand, we have about one hour to make this 00:15:39.809 --> 00:15:47.197 decision and it's either go or no go. And so we all sat there a little bit 00:15:47.230 --> 00:15:52.837 stunned but to Russ's credit and I give him credit for this. He eventually 00:15:52.870 --> 00:16:00.567 said go. And I picked up the phone and that was the birth of a S. U. West 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:05.297 and I don't know that I've ever told that story publicly before. But 00:16:05.330 --> 00:16:13.037 that's the birth of A S. U. West and before events cooled down stan turley 00:16:13.070 --> 00:16:17.626 and doug Todd and others had written that there will be an ASU West campus 00:16:17.659 --> 00:16:20.307 into the statutes 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.927 and then we had to go get the border regions to approve everything. But it 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:28.427 was already a fait accompli by the time that process went through now, 00:16:28.460 --> 00:16:32.596 maybe I've forgotten some things for us. But well there had been an 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:40.629 appropriation once before that was never spent right and only a portion of 00:16:40.649 --> 00:16:45.057 it was spent for some planning. But then it had been dropped. It came at a 00:16:45.090 --> 00:16:51.327 very inopportune time for the university and that money was reverted. And 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:57.717 so this was actually the second time that the issue had come in recent 00:16:57.750 --> 00:17:05.750 years. Too aggressive attention by the university and the legislature. 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:12.516 And I thought that the most difficult aspect of the k of the of the 00:17:12.549 --> 00:17:19.647 situation was getting the region's onboard because there were varied 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:27.680 opinions about the wisdom of creating another campus for the university in 00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:36.046 the central city of Arizona. And I think we probably took some steps in 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:43.107 working with the legislature that preceded the actions of the regions. And 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:48.217 I seem to recall having been called into the wood shed a time or two on 00:17:48.250 --> 00:17:54.086 that in the course of it. But at the at the end of the year, the 00:17:54.119 --> 00:18:00.476 legislature had approved the concept of a university and had appropriated 00:18:00.509 --> 00:18:07.806 some money and created some parameters for the development of west campus. 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.516 And it's at that point that we set to work in a serious way now frank, I 00:18:12.549 --> 00:18:16.756 know you did a study on the issue West. Could you tell us a little bit 00:18:16.789 --> 00:18:23.746 about that? Yeah. My study was, I forget who, who asked me to do it. I 00:18:23.779 --> 00:18:28.127 don't know whether rusted or you did. But anyway, my study was a 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:35.226 demographic study mainly. And it revealed that so many people were 00:18:35.259 --> 00:18:40.546 traveling from the west side to the main campus to go to school the debt 00:18:40.579 --> 00:18:46.566 that make any sense because the group that lived there was so large at the 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:52.026 west side that it did deserve some kind of a teaching institution. I think 00:18:52.059 --> 00:18:57.937 that was my, my contribution. Uh and then in addition to the demographic 00:18:57.970 --> 00:19:05.367 involved, I talked to the leaders in on the west side and they favored it 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:12.306 and we're prepared to testify before the legislature have to pursue it. 00:19:12.339 --> 00:19:19.607 And and that worked very good. one of the lessons I learned in this hole, 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:27.640 the problem was to develop a constituency to front for you because those 00:19:27.710 --> 00:19:32.967 of us seeking money or seeking a new organization. Uh, I don't think it's 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:39.996 very far really with the legislature unless there empathetic to the 00:19:40.029 --> 00:19:46.847 problem. So the trick we found was to get a constituency of prominent 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:52.907 names, you know, like Jack Feaster, Salt River project Marvin Andrews. Uh 00:19:52.940 --> 00:20:00.246 City manager, people who had status and they they would carry the day for 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:02.907 you. 00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:10.940 Well one thing that that Russ always did was even though I was pushing the 00:20:11.299 --> 00:20:16.927 envelope across the desk quite frequently, he always stood behind me with 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:24.197 the border regions because it didn't take us long to learn that the 00:20:24.230 --> 00:20:29.226 region's weren't always going to see the way that A s you should do it 00:20:29.259 --> 00:20:34.207 because there weren't any issue regions on the border regions at the time. 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:39.197 And so we were always kind of pushing the envelope a little bit and 00:20:39.230 --> 00:20:42.826 trying to get some things done. And I know issue west was one of those 00:20:42.859 --> 00:20:48.937 that had to be done in a way that if we had waited for regions approval, 00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:54.006 it may never have happened the way things were going. And as we can see 00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:58.167 now it was it's a good thing because the West Valley has grown by leaps 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:04.107 and bounds and we now have a S. U. East that was born somewhat the same in 00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:10.536 a in a move like that. But I think another thing that that future 00:21:10.569 --> 00:21:15.387 historians will be interested in and future students is to talk a little 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:22.387 bit about pro football in Sun Devil Stadium. It created a lot of commotion 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:28.707 on a campus because we were one of the few campuses in the country that 00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:35.836 that housed professional team and it was not easy. It was not an easy walk 00:21:35.869 --> 00:21:43.107 to get there. There was a lot of upheavals and a lot of commotions and 00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:49.867 the way I remember it is that in the past there had been an effort to use 00:21:49.900 --> 00:21:55.437 Sun Devil Stadium for pro football, preseason games that they used to have 00:21:55.470 --> 00:22:00.076 going around and there were a couple of Big brother games played in the 00:22:00.109 --> 00:22:06.046 stadium and that kind of opened the door a little bit and that was done 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.707 under pressure from Burton Barr who wanted to see pro football in Sun 00:22:10.740 --> 00:22:17.187 Devil Stadium. And President nelson's predecessor, President Suada was 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:21.887 under some tremendous, tremendous pressure to to make that happen. And 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:27.326 both frank kush and fred miller did not want to see pro football in Sun 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:33.026 Devil Stadium. Well, shortly thereafter, when governor babbitt was elected 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:39.786 governor, he commissioned a pro football ah commission and they came up 00:22:39.819 --> 00:22:43.457 with a recommendation to, to use Sun Devil Stadium. So I knew that the 00:22:43.490 --> 00:22:49.226 pressure was going to be really intense to, to do something about pro 00:22:49.259 --> 00:22:54.397 football and Sun Devil Stadium. So Russia pointed me to be the contact 00:22:54.430 --> 00:23:01.496 person. And when the ST louis cardinals came looking, I was a contact 00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:09.107 person and uh, we went through a whole series of negotiations 00:23:09.140 --> 00:23:13.467 and I think most people in the community were surprised because they 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:17.746 didn't think the cardinals were very serious and they thought they were 00:23:17.779 --> 00:23:22.907 just using us as kind of a 00:23:22.940 --> 00:23:28.576 method to get a better deal at ST Louis. And so a lot of people were 00:23:28.609 --> 00:23:33.367 supposed to be involved in the negotiations but they kind of dropped by 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:38.476 the wayside. And remember the border regions kind of were involved. But 00:23:38.509 --> 00:23:41.996 then they kind of dropped out and the athletic department was kind of 00:23:42.029 --> 00:23:50.029 involved. But the process moved forward and we negotiated a contract. And 00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:55.467 lo and behold the cardinals. One friday afternoon when the border regions 00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:58.516 were moving meeting over here, they dropped the bombshell that they were 00:23:58.549 --> 00:24:00.707 coming, 00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:05.207 No contract had been signed 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:07.506 and 00:24:07.539 --> 00:24:12.437 it was quite something to drop into your lap Russ. And I apologize for 00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:18.046 that because I had something to do with that. But that was the way it 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:21.746 happened. And suddenly there was a lot of negotiating that needed to be 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:28.677 done wasn't part of the unbelief in the reality of a team coming, caused 00:24:28.710 --> 00:24:35.917 by the fact that two other teams had indicated interest and we had 00:24:35.950 --> 00:24:40.397 negotiated with them. We're people had negotiated on the behalf of the 00:24:40.430 --> 00:24:44.986 university with them. And then at the last minute they went somewhere else. 00:24:45.019 --> 00:24:51.336 So we were the bogey in that case. And having been stung a time or two 00:24:51.369 --> 00:24:57.707 before you take less seriously the next one that comes along as we did 00:24:57.740 --> 00:25:05.336 this one. And because the negotiations are so clandestine, it's very hard 00:25:05.369 --> 00:25:11.066 for everybody to be fully informed until it happens and you're never ready 00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:16.887 when it does happen. And I think it was a bit of a bombshell. 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:24.296 And I will say this for Russ, even though I I was a culprit in in signing 00:25:24.329 --> 00:25:31.476 the letter saying they could use Sun Devil Stadium. I think I at least 00:25:31.509 --> 00:25:36.217 tried to protect rust from the onslaught of the community because I knew 00:25:36.250 --> 00:25:39.556 there was never enough time to get the regions to approve it. It just 00:25:39.589 --> 00:25:45.447 would not have happened. And so I did take it upon myself. I was the vice 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.526 president and I had the authority to sign contracts and I did. I signed 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:53.986 the letter that said they could use some level stadium. I think that the 00:25:54.019 --> 00:25:57.756 two regions who were most directly involved in the discussions were 00:25:57.789 --> 00:26:04.357 understanding as well. Yes, they were and Jack Feaster and Herman Herman 00:26:04.390 --> 00:26:07.387 Chanin in particular 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:13.756 played a role in making it easier to get the regions to understand of what 00:26:13.789 --> 00:26:19.147 had been going on in the background. But I did indicate to rust that I 00:26:19.180 --> 00:26:23.266 could be the sacrificial lamb that you know, you can always get rid of the 00:26:23.299 --> 00:26:29.607 vice presidents and say that darn brand just went a little too far. 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:35.707 But the cardinals are here, They played here for Some 20, some years. 00:26:35.740 --> 00:26:41.407 They've moved on to the West Valley next year. But 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.707 although some people continually when they find out that I had anything to 00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:51.457 do with bringing the cardinals here, they, they sometimes say some unkind 00:26:51.490 --> 00:26:56.816 remarks but for whatever the cardinals are here and they are pro football 00:26:56.849 --> 00:27:03.986 team in the valley and they did leave our stadium much improved. We did at 00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:11.256 least benefit from that regards and frank. I know that you entered the 00:27:11.289 --> 00:27:18.677 athletic department with a lot of problems over there. And uh it was after 00:27:18.710 --> 00:27:23.667 your tenure there that we had the Super Bowl. But I remember you at least 00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:28.657 being supportive of my efforts to do something in that regards. But can 00:27:28.690 --> 00:27:31.917 you talk a little bit about the problems that you faced when you went over 00:27:31.950 --> 00:27:36.566 as the head of the athletic department? Right. As a matter of fact Russ 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:41.877 played a very prominent role in the whole thing. We were under five 00:27:41.910 --> 00:27:48.736 violations, n. c. a. violations. Men's track, women's strike, basketball, 00:27:48.769 --> 00:27:55.207 baseball one other and I recall you 00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:01.806 said that I think that was your special assistant at that time. You said 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:08.026 why don't you go down Maybe six months or so and find out what is going on 00:28:08.059 --> 00:28:16.059 ? So I did. And then I report to you that in my view the problem was a 00:28:17.390 --> 00:28:25.217 cultural thing that the coaches had more authority than they should have. 00:28:25.250 --> 00:28:32.306 They didn't have oversight. And their interest was to win games. And 00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:40.339 yeah and given leeway they would flip over into a violation. And so I 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.766 think the next question you asked is uh 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:50.617 what do we do to change the culture? And I said, well with the present 00:28:50.650 --> 00:28:57.816 team in place, I doubt that there is anything we can do by the way you had 00:28:57.849 --> 00:29:01.697 appointed me assistant director to dictate bureau. So I would have some 00:29:01.730 --> 00:29:05.887 authority when I went down to talk to the cultures otherwise they would 00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:11.167 not have listened to me at all. Well what I reported back to you that I 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:16.786 didn't think with the president administration there was much hope of 00:29:16.819 --> 00:29:24.556 change you immediately and promptly fired the athletic director, Dick dan 00:29:24.589 --> 00:29:29.857 Bureau. And I'm I was very naive and I said, well Russ is gonna take us a 00:29:29.890 --> 00:29:35.937 year to recruit a suitable athletic director. But I said no, we're not 00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:43.217 having been warning you the athletic director. So we did it in the day and 00:29:43.250 --> 00:29:47.947 I did overwhelm the solution to the problem to me was easy from my 00:29:47.980 --> 00:29:51.357 military experience. There was only one way to solve the problem that has 00:29:51.390 --> 00:29:58.347 fired the coaches, which I did. How many did you let go 00:29:58.380 --> 00:30:05.046 let go for? And I think I had a big argument with you because you thought 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:12.806 well you did let the baseball coach Jim bronco. And he was one of the 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:20.357 violators and I protect the gym rock because I didn't think that was a 00:30:20.390 --> 00:30:25.187 legitimate breach. And I might mention it because that's come up 00:30:25.220 --> 00:30:29.107 historically. Several times 00:30:29.140 --> 00:30:35.397 we put an advertisement in the state press and ethic in the city newspaper 00:30:35.430 --> 00:30:40.806 that we needed somebody to clean up the ball diamond. Baseball diamond 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.306 after practices and the games 00:30:45.339 --> 00:30:49.877 and jim brock said, well gee my team is there were looking for jobs, why 00:30:49.910 --> 00:30:56.107 don't we do it? We're there anyway. So we gave them the contract. 00:30:56.140 --> 00:31:04.140 Well the N. C. A. A. Said uh we were in violation pain amateur athletes 00:31:06.950 --> 00:31:14.950 really to play ball. And they really slapped us Pretty hard on that one. 00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:21.707 Ah So but I I thought jim brock had acted wisely. He had done the right 00:31:21.740 --> 00:31:27.407 thing. And from my perspective and his perspective there was no violation. 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:32.877 So we never did fire jim brock. Although there was a lot of pressure to 00:31:32.910 --> 00:31:37.907 do so to make it equitable among those that we had fired. 00:31:37.940 --> 00:31:42.996 I don't know if either one of you remember during the Nordle controversy 00:31:43.029 --> 00:31:47.326 it was it was a pretty intense that was where one of the athletes in the 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:53.266 baseball pre program had been prescribed in Nordle as a as a drug that 00:31:53.299 --> 00:31:58.397 they used. And so it made the front pages above the fold and and we all 00:31:58.430 --> 00:32:03.937 got called called down to the Arizona Republic Editorial room and uh I'm 00:32:03.970 --> 00:32:07.316 pretty sure you were there Russ. I know I know you were. And and frank, I 00:32:07.349 --> 00:32:13.796 think you maybe not. Maybe it was a member of the group but they had talk 00:32:13.829 --> 00:32:20.717 to me separately anyway, we were down there and of course they were laying 00:32:20.750 --> 00:32:25.657 some pretty heavy artillery on us. And and so one of the questions they 00:32:25.690 --> 00:32:31.506 ask is when are you gonna start paying as much attention? two academics as 00:32:31.539 --> 00:32:37.006 you do athletics and I was kind of primed for that question and I was glad 00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:42.597 that they ask it. And my response is we're going to pay as much attention 00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:48.286 to academics when you have the same number of reporters covering academics 00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:54.286 that you do athletics. And I think the ratio was something like 12-1 00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.546 because they had two newspapers then and they had two full staffs on the 00:32:58.579 --> 00:33:03.657 Phoenix Gazette and Arizona Republic's covering athletics. They had one 00:33:03.690 --> 00:33:09.256 person to cover all three universities in academics. Uh Not that that 00:33:09.289 --> 00:33:17.289 carried the day, but I did feel better. That's understandable. 00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:23.617 The the interesting thing is that that was a legitimate drug that was 00:33:23.650 --> 00:33:31.650 being used and it fit the needs of certain people. And we did uh an 00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:40.976 exhaustive examination in the records of the medical program here about 00:33:41.009 --> 00:33:46.857 how many students were receiving the drug and what it was doing for them 00:33:46.890 --> 00:33:52.556 and so on. And I was convinced at the end of that with the report that the 00:33:52.589 --> 00:33:59.207 use was in fact legitimate. And it turned out that one of the people who 00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:05.397 had promoted the use of Nardo in certain cases was a psychiatrist who was 00:34:05.430 --> 00:34:11.307 a friend of mine and he paid me a visit at one point and he said, well, 00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:16.736 this is a troubling and difficult thing. But he said that the use of the 00:34:16.769 --> 00:34:23.327 drug is legitimate as long as the case requires it. And he had looked at 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:28.046 some of the records and he said he hadn't found any cases that that were 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:33.617 inappropriate and that on the pro prohibited was not on the prohibited 00:34:33.650 --> 00:34:38.646 list list. But the, the interesting thing to me was that the bulk of the 00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:44.506 students getting it, we're not in the athletic department. Unfortunately, 00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:50.086 the above the story folds, you know, carries the day the, 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.626 the story that is true, never made it onto the front pages of the 00:34:53.659 --> 00:34:58.427 newspaper is a tough time. I guess that's understandable given the 00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:02.717 economics of the business. And the fact that the nard all story was, it 00:35:02.750 --> 00:35:07.717 took several months before we had all the data. Yeah. And it's not a story 00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:13.907 at that point, I've I've learned to accept that That was a tough one frank. 00:35:13.940 --> 00:35:18.686 Anything else in the athletic department that 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:22.807 certainly the Weinhauer case. 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:29.597 We had no difficulty in the firing because I think we were very gracious 00:35:29.630 --> 00:35:35.166 after the firing, we took care of the families. We took care of continued 00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:39.626 salary for six months and gave them opportunities to find another job and 00:35:39.659 --> 00:35:45.307 picked up the tab on employment agencies. We, and then we continue the 00:35:45.340 --> 00:35:49.887 health insurance for one year to protect the families. I think that was 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:55.086 handled well, costs a little bit of money, but we did have the money. We 00:35:55.119 --> 00:35:58.916 were running a surplus at the athletic department at the time. So we had 00:35:58.949 --> 00:36:06.949 no problem on money. Uh, The old Lee Aberration was one hour who did not 00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:17.400 want to be fired by the way, he was a good coach, but he was violated the 00:36:18.429 --> 00:36:20.497 regulations 00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:25.986 and he came up with that quirk that everybody else had one year contract 00:36:26.019 --> 00:36:29.787 and we were terminated at the end of the contract year so people would 00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:34.997 complete the year. But he had been given by Dick Damn Bureau five 00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:40.497 consecutive one year contract. So in effect he had a five year contract 00:36:40.530 --> 00:36:46.756 illegal from our standpoint both by the giver and the taker. But a good 00:36:46.789 --> 00:36:53.796 case in a court of law. So we settled for $1 million. Yeah frank. One 00:36:53.829 --> 00:36:59.347 thing I think you did over there that I'm aware of and I think that it's 00:36:59.380 --> 00:37:04.157 it's helped the program over there in athletics to this day is to separate 00:37:04.190 --> 00:37:10.807 out the enforcement of the N. C. A. A. Rules and regulations from from the 00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.137 coaches and made a separate entity in the department of Athletics. Did you 00:37:15.170 --> 00:37:18.186 not 00:37:18.219 --> 00:37:25.927 into the area of some kind of a control device over the coaches as some 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:32.166 oversight which we did not have before? Well I'm I'm not sure but I don't 00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:37.566 think A. S. U. Has run into as difficult time as they had During that 00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:42.307 10ure. I think that that was helpful into the future of athletics at a. S 00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:47.807 . U. So hopefully that contribution will remain there and we will keep out 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:52.876 of trouble over in the athletic department for years to come anyway. That 00:37:52.909 --> 00:37:58.236 was a real contribution. Another thing Russ that that I think was 00:37:58.269 --> 00:38:02.967 accomplished very much during your tenure, was to move the research agenda 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:08.387 forward at the university and I think you ought to at least tell us a 00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:11.796 little bit about that and how important you thought that was for the 00:38:11.829 --> 00:38:13.986 institution. 00:38:14.019 --> 00:38:19.097 Yeah, I would start by saying that the Board of Regents approved, I think 00:38:19.130 --> 00:38:24.686 one month before I arrived, a new mission statement for the university 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:29.177 that said it was to become a major research university. 00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:37.210 But in reality, we did not have many of the implements for becoming a 00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:42.736 major research university and that required us to do a lot of things. And 00:38:42.769 --> 00:38:47.686 among the things that we worked on were protocols for animal care, which 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:51.427 is a very mundane thing, but absolutely essential. If you're going to 00:38:51.460 --> 00:38:58.247 compete for federal contracts, we didn't have protocols in the institution 00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:01.387 for 00:39:01.420 --> 00:39:06.086 human ah 00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:12.177 subjects that were approved and consistent with the requirements for 00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:18.597 getting a large grants for that sort of work. We didn't really have 00:39:18.630 --> 00:39:23.177 research facilities in very many places in the university and we had not 00:39:23.210 --> 00:39:29.396 emphasized over the years the way that must be done to become a research 00:39:29.429 --> 00:39:34.477 university, that people had to be productive participants in the research 00:39:34.510 --> 00:39:40.686 process and had to be active in publication and the like. And so a lot of 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:48.037 the infrastructure of the university required mending or creation in order 00:39:48.070 --> 00:39:52.197 to meet the requirements and we spent a lot of time working on those 00:39:52.230 --> 00:39:54.787 things, 00:39:54.820 --> 00:39:58.577 we also needed a lot of facilities. 00:39:58.610 --> 00:40:05.577 And while we didn't fulfill all of the needs for research facilities, we 00:40:05.610 --> 00:40:12.546 made some progress in that area that began moving us in that direction. 00:40:12.579 --> 00:40:18.896 And I think the deans were encouraged very strongly to recruit in a way 00:40:18.929 --> 00:40:23.106 that would bring in people who would be research active from universities 00:40:23.139 --> 00:40:29.356 that had reputations themselves for research activity. That would give us 00:40:29.389 --> 00:40:35.807 a boost in building that kind of capability in the university. 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:41.376 As I recall, we did achieve class one status just about the time you 00:40:41.409 --> 00:40:46.796 departed. I think it was actually published about a year after I left. But 00:40:46.829 --> 00:40:51.577 yes, we did achieve it. You did achieve it. 00:40:51.610 --> 00:40:56.447 And that was the epitome, somewhere along the line. I never found the 00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:02.427 documentation. There was some kind of an agreement or understanding that 00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:08.106 the USA would be the research institution and A S you would be a teaching 00:41:08.139 --> 00:41:15.387 institution. Well, doesn't that go back to the original charter? We were a 00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:23.420 normal school and they were the state university. And I think the revised 00:41:23.489 --> 00:41:27.327 mission statement for the university, that the regions for this university 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:32.997 , that the region's approved just before I arrived here said that we 00:41:33.030 --> 00:41:39.997 should now become a major research university. And so we had a verbal 00:41:40.030 --> 00:41:46.166 charter from the regions. It was actually written down and there were 00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:52.956 certain areas identified as being areas of emphasis within the university 00:41:52.989 --> 00:41:59.077 and that was the impetus, I believe for beginning to move the university 00:41:59.110 --> 00:42:03.887 in that direction. There wasn't a lot of money that came with it from the 00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:09.517 legislature, but research universities get a lot of their money from gifts 00:42:09.550 --> 00:42:12.566 and from grants. 00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:20.599 And so we began to become more active in fundraising with the appointment 00:42:21.710 --> 00:42:27.057 of Lonnie Ostrom as a fundraiser. We had, we had had fundraisers before we 00:42:27.090 --> 00:42:33.217 had raised some money, but it was always project oriented and we began to 00:42:33.250 --> 00:42:41.250 , I have fundraising aimed at institutional development. And the first 00:42:41.739 --> 00:42:49.739 general fundraising campaign came in the centennial year and raised $125 00:42:51.460 --> 00:42:59.460 million dollars roughly. And the success of the subsequent campaigns, I 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:05.367 think is partly the result of the work that Lonnie did in creating an 00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:11.977 organization and an approach that would lend itself towards a major 00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:15.666 fundraising in the university 00:43:15.699 --> 00:43:20.086 Russ. I know you didn't ever want to be known as, uh, as the athletic 00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:25.407 president, but you're still the only president that's taken a issue to a 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:32.916 Rose Bowl victory, that accomplishment. Athletic, but they have been twice. 00:43:32.949 --> 00:43:36.467 Yes, I know 00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:40.907 also, both of you are very much involved in the creation of the university 00:43:40.940 --> 00:43:48.727 club. And I think that that's an additional thing that made the campus a 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:53.956 more traditional campus where people could gather. And it's certainly have 00:43:53.989 --> 00:43:57.066 that if you have any comments on that, I know you were both heavily 00:43:57.099 --> 00:44:03.856 involved in that we didn't have a faculty club and we needed something, uh 00:44:03.889 --> 00:44:08.057 , we, we couldn't call the club, the university club of faculty club 00:44:08.090 --> 00:44:13.577 because it's on the government's soil and it has to serve everybody. So it 00:44:13.610 --> 00:44:20.206 became a university club. It, in effect, it is a faculty club because 00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:25.166 students don't want to pay the initiation fee and a monthly fee to join. 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:31.796 So in effect, we have a faculty club. The genesis of the club is 00:44:31.829 --> 00:44:37.256 interesting and Lonnie Ostrom had a big part of it and I remember he would 00:44:37.289 --> 00:44:42.767 come around and he came around to me several times. Uh, we need $1000. So 00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:49.057 I would fork over $1000 and that's how he got the money to start this club. 00:44:49.090 --> 00:44:54.267 Now, we were given a building, a beautiful facade. It's all it was. And 00:44:54.300 --> 00:45:01.517 what we had to do after we got the building was to tear out everything 00:45:01.550 --> 00:45:07.947 inside. It was a skeleton. It had been used as a warehouse, but it was a 00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:15.256 very well built structure. It was, it just had not been kept up to date. 00:45:15.289 --> 00:45:23.217 Right? And the structure itself was sound and lent itself well to being 00:45:23.250 --> 00:45:31.157 rebuilt. Right? The money we had to donate, it was all by donation was the 00:45:31.190 --> 00:45:35.816 interior structure, tearing it all down and then building it. I think it's 00:45:35.849 --> 00:45:41.986 a beautiful club now. And uh, one of the most beautiful pieces is that 00:45:42.019 --> 00:45:47.697 circular staircase leading up to the second floor from the first floor and 00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:52.597 I was so impressed with that, that I hosted a wedding once on the 00:45:52.630 --> 00:45:59.787 condition that the bride would have this flowing gown coming down the 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:02.947 circular staircase. 00:46:02.980 --> 00:46:08.267 I wanna can I just comment on that building a little step further because 00:46:08.300 --> 00:46:14.947 it had been used by the College of Fine Arts for a number of years and it 00:46:14.980 --> 00:46:20.086 was in deplorable condition, not because of the College of Fine Arts, they 00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:26.847 had begged to use it simply because it was available. And it was only 00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:32.256 after people began to go through it a bit and look at it for what it might 00:46:32.289 --> 00:46:38.517 become that uh, you all persuaded me we should take it away from the fine 00:46:38.550 --> 00:46:43.157 arts people which they didn't like. But they ended up with a nice new 00:46:43.190 --> 00:46:50.126 building and it, it seemed like a treasure once we got into it and found 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:57.537 that it was a solid building and that it was able to be rehabilitated and 00:46:57.570 --> 00:47:02.057 it has proven to be an excellent building I think for the purpose. Well, 00:47:02.090 --> 00:47:06.117 it's a credit to both of your legacies. That's for sure. I do want to 00:47:06.150 --> 00:47:10.537 comment just a little bit on the third thing I had written on my notebook 00:47:10.570 --> 00:47:14.287 when I talked to you first Russ and that was to get more mexican american 00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.717 students on the campus and I think you need to take a lot of credit for 00:47:17.750 --> 00:47:23.706 that started a lot of programs started the base for, for getting more 00:47:23.739 --> 00:47:28.557 mexican americans on campus. The regions were helpful. We did bring on 00:47:28.590 --> 00:47:33.646 board frank had Algo who was an assistant vice president and he started 00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:39.517 the graduation ceremony for the mexican american students That Channel 00:47:39.550 --> 00:47:44.577 eight has televised every year. I don't know if they still do that, but 00:47:44.610 --> 00:47:50.497 they did for a number of years and you can't discount the effect that that 00:47:50.530 --> 00:47:54.717 had on the community of people watching that and seeing them go through 00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:59.427 graduation ceremony and graduate. The mother daughter program was 00:47:59.460 --> 00:48:07.236 particularly effective as well. And Betty Asher was an important figure in 00:48:07.269 --> 00:48:13.137 getting that program established and I understand it's still flourishing. 00:48:13.170 --> 00:48:18.646 So those things were very helpful. And the last statistics I just saw the 00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:24.686 mexican american students were way up and remember the plan that you 00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:30.537 commissioned and then approved. It was called action Now 00:48:30.570 --> 00:48:36.396 action. Now I imagine Brent had something to do with that. Well I think we 00:48:36.429 --> 00:48:41.416 all did. A lot of people participated in that and tried to move it forward 00:48:41.449 --> 00:48:46.736 and we did have a deal or to cut in the legislature. That's how we got the 00:48:46.769 --> 00:48:52.557 downtown center started was getting a mexican american program on campus. 00:48:52.590 --> 00:48:58.037 And Alfredo gutierrez helped us get the downtown center up and started. 00:48:58.070 --> 00:49:03.637 So it was a help of a lot of people to get these programs up and going and 00:49:03.670 --> 00:49:08.856 now there's gonna be a university downtown but it had to start and then it 00:49:08.889 --> 00:49:12.387 started under your your tenure. So you know, I think there's one other 00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:16.657 thing I want to comment about Brent, it's on a different topic, but frank 00:49:16.690 --> 00:49:24.066 , you've had a frank talk at some length about the, uh, about his role in 00:49:24.099 --> 00:49:32.099 the athletic department. But he spent At least two years as vice president 00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:38.947 for, uh, financial affairs and business affairs and really rewrote that 00:49:38.980 --> 00:49:45.506 department as well and laid the groundwork for bringing in someone as a 00:49:45.539 --> 00:49:53.447 more permanent officer and corrected a large number of problems that 00:49:53.480 --> 00:50:00.776 needed work. I can tell a specific story that relates to Channel eight. 00:50:00.809 --> 00:50:06.177 The vice president before frank's Acton was taking all of the interest 00:50:06.210 --> 00:50:12.526 money that people contributed to channel eight and using it elsewhere, 00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:18.086 which may have been illegal. But it was happening and there were a lot of 00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:22.956 complaints about that and especially I happened to be over this area. 00:50:22.989 --> 00:50:28.097 Channel eight and there was a lot of of unrest in that regards and frank 00:50:28.130 --> 00:50:32.727 when he took over and took office. one of the first things he did it say 00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:37.947 if they raise the money, they get the interest and it it's solved a lot of 00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:42.396 problems in alumni had the same problem. If you remember frank channel 00:50:42.429 --> 00:50:49.236 Eight, some of the other places and you made my job a lot easier. And it 00:50:49.269 --> 00:50:53.347 was not a decision that took a long time. If you know anything about 00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:58.747 frank's Acton, it was immediate. He said, well we shouldn't be doing that. 00:50:58.780 --> 00:51:01.827 And that was the end of the discussion. 00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:07.526 So you made my job a lot easier. You made Russell's job a lot easier. And 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:13.697 you've lived until you're 93 Frank. I I it didn't take too much out of you 00:51:13.730 --> 00:51:18.227 I guess. 00:51:18.260 --> 00:51:22.236 Okay. We're nearing about the hour that we were allotted anymore. Final 00:51:22.269 --> 00:51:28.646 comments that we want to leave for posterity. No, I want to go back to 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:35.077 Russ for a moment. You know, when I look back you presided over so many 00:51:35.110 --> 00:51:40.166 things, the period of growth. Remember a study? I made a demographic study. 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:47.347 I started with Durham and then uh plotted the demographics and it came to 00:51:47.380 --> 00:51:54.956 nelson and it's a great big hump. And then on from there. Yeah. And that 00:51:54.989 --> 00:51:57.796 was a challenge because I remember trying to get money out of the 00:51:57.829 --> 00:52:02.717 legislature to fund this. And the legislature would say, well let's see if 00:52:02.750 --> 00:52:07.617 the growth is permanent and then come back and talk to us. And that was 00:52:07.650 --> 00:52:11.436 typical of what the legislature can understand their rationale, but it 00:52:11.469 --> 00:52:16.347 didn't make our job tough. I can name off a number of things that the rest 00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:23.416 presided over a. S. U. West, the downtown center, the old asylum that we 00:52:23.449 --> 00:52:30.606 got back from from down the state. And that's part of the campus. He 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:35.077 presided over a all of the problems in the athletic department that 00:52:35.110 --> 00:52:39.916 included included a Super bowl on campus, which no other president has 00:52:39.949 --> 00:52:46.126 ever had to deal with the United States. And those were probably as an 00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:49.517 exciting a time as any university in the country with the growth and 00:52:49.550 --> 00:52:56.066 everything else that was going on new campuses bringing up and new growth 00:52:56.099 --> 00:53:02.477 and in a major metropolitan area. It was probably a a very prime time to 00:53:02.510 --> 00:53:06.836 be the president. I couldn't have found a more exciting place for us. An 00:53:06.869 --> 00:53:10.316 interesting ride. 00:53:10.349 --> 00:53:15.066 Well, I think we could very well say that you brought the university to 00:53:15.099 --> 00:53:17.416 maturity. 00:53:17.449 --> 00:53:21.887 No, I think frank that we had the opportunity to get it started on the 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:25.316 road to maturity, 00:53:25.349 --> 00:53:30.836 a different, a different kind of university. I think it was mature at what 00:53:30.869 --> 00:53:37.517 it was and we were given the challenge of getting it started to become 00:53:37.550 --> 00:53:41.867 what it could be, which is and it was a different reality that the 00:53:41.900 --> 00:53:49.017 region's laid out for us and I don't think that happens overnight. I had 00:53:49.050 --> 00:53:54.157 eight years to work on it, Laddie worked on it 12 years we're not there 00:53:54.190 --> 00:54:02.190 yet and I'm sure that that will be continuing, will continue to be a major 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:10.920 focus of the university to bring itself into a different level of work and 00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:14.316 recognition. 00:54:14.349 --> 00:54:18.586 Well, it was interesting for all of us to have played a small part in that 00:54:18.619 --> 00:54:26.619 process and on behalf of everybody that will read this in the future or 00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:34.307 listen to it. I thank you for being here. Thank you Brent, not that I was 00:54:34.340 --> 00:54:39.510 appointed the moderator, but well you've doneit