WEBVTT 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.440 Today is Thursday March three 2016 00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:21.377 and I am Zeke Proust professor emeritus and with us today we have a 00:00:21.410 --> 00:00:28.467 technical support staff. They include john McIntosh on camera, roger 00:00:28.500 --> 00:00:35.976 carter audio linda vance coy director and Dave shortly chair of the video 00:00:36.009 --> 00:00:44.009 history project. So at this time I'd like to introduce dr Hal Harold White. 00:00:44.270 --> 00:00:51.067 I'm Harold White, my friends call me Hal I'm professor of management in 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:56.277 the College of Business now the W. P. Carey School of Business. I joined 00:00:56.310 --> 00:01:04.310 the faculty in 1966, retired in 1993. I was born in 1931 in Colville 00:01:04.530 --> 00:01:10.867 Washington Which was the county seat of 2500 population in northeastern 00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:16.897 Washington. My father was in the automobile business in Hudson's which is 00:01:16.930 --> 00:01:24.930 history with his father and sister and her husband and great life. The 00:01:26.569 --> 00:01:31.986 little town just get all over, do everything very informal, spend a lot of 00:01:32.019 --> 00:01:35.307 time in my father's garage 00:01:35.340 --> 00:01:39.637 and when I was 10 years old my father went off on his own, we went to 00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:44.206 Walla Walla Washington and the town they liked so well. They named it 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:52.239 twice and it was a county seat and southeastern Washington of 25,000 00:01:52.670 --> 00:02:00.670 population agricultural area right. And I was there through the junior 00:02:00.810 --> 00:02:06.826 year in high school. My father's business. We got there in 1941 early and 00:02:06.859 --> 00:02:11.476 by the end of the year the Japanese had attacked and it could no longer 00:02:11.509 --> 00:02:16.106 get new cars and that was a pretty difficult way to start out of business 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:21.807 and but he figured that if you couldn't buy new cars, you had to repair 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:26.577 the ones you had. So we made sure he had some good mechanics and he was 00:02:26.610 --> 00:02:34.610 able to start a cab company of just two cabs. But they established Air 00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:41.207 force just outside of town and a lot of the service people didn't have any 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:45.156 automobiles. So that gave more business to that and that people didn't 00:02:45.189 --> 00:02:51.307 have the cars, didn't have the gasoline. And my father died when I was in 00:02:51.340 --> 00:02:57.816 high school And a year later my mother remarried and moved to Pendleton 00:02:57.849 --> 00:03:04.207 Oregon, which was 45 miles away, which was a county seat of 15,000. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:10.286 And I really wasn't very eager to leave Wallawalla because when I was a 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:15.807 freshman, I got sweet on this gal Lucille angel and I was too shy to let 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:22.717 her know about it. But when my senior year I got enough Strength and I had 00:03:22.750 --> 00:03:27.717 my own automobile. I drive over the 45 miles to see her and she was always 00:03:27.750 --> 00:03:34.427 out with some guy, okay. And the end of the year, she went to college and 00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:40.376 Whitman College, which is a small liberal arts school in Wallawalla and I 00:03:40.409 --> 00:03:46.207 went to University of Oregon and I'd get home and I'd go and see her and 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:50.106 she was very interested. So 00:03:50.139 --> 00:03:54.497 she didn't ever, she told me she didn't like me to tell the story, but she 00:03:54.530 --> 00:03:59.997 never told me not to tell it when I got sweet on her was when in spring of 00:04:00.030 --> 00:04:05.126 our freshman year in high school. And the last class we were standing out 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:09.017 in the hall and she said well I'm going to get my hair fixed and how do 00:04:09.050 --> 00:04:14.166 you think I'm gonna look? And I wondered all week and she just looked 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.606 great. So 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:22.236 he said don't tell that it's that embarrasses me but she never said no 00:04:22.269 --> 00:04:28.877 doubt don't tell it. So anyway when they got to be the august before we 00:04:28.910 --> 00:04:35.226 went back to school in our sophomore year, I he said well I want you to be 00:04:35.259 --> 00:04:39.866 my girl, you don't want to be and it's making both of us uncomfortable so 00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:45.806 I'm just not going to come back anymore. So I've I've given up the field 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:50.476 and thanksgiving came along and I was back to Pendleton for the holidays 00:04:50.509 --> 00:04:53.947 and I thought I'm I'm really gonna tough this out. I'm not going to go see 00:04:53.980 --> 00:05:00.527 her. And she called me and so she was my girl ever after that. So that was 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:07.967 the end of that and I, the end of my sophomore year in college I started 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:12.536 out as an art major and I found out I wasn't an artist so I transferred to 00:05:12.569 --> 00:05:20.317 business because of my family's business and 00:05:20.350 --> 00:05:27.366 the end of my sophomore year I was vice president of my fraternity. I was 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:31.846 accepted into the advanced R. O. C. D. R. T. C. Program which would have 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:37.567 led to a commission. I was sick of school I had the girl of my dreams and 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:42.926 I had a family business to go to. So who needs college. So I dropped out 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:45.007 and 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:51.096 lucy dropped out and we were married and the family business almost 00:05:51.129 --> 00:05:59.129 immediately went downhill. Hudson wasn't surviving and bad decision. So I 00:05:59.350 --> 00:06:03.606 stuck it out for a few years and finally we said, we just got to get back 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:09.296 to school again and I had no intention of doing any more and getting a 00:06:09.329 --> 00:06:14.596 bachelor's and and getting a job. My wife was a legal secretary and then 00:06:14.629 --> 00:06:19.877 later on with secretary at uh the Language institute at the University of 00:06:19.910 --> 00:06:25.567 Oregon. And I got a job as uh working in a service station when it was 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:32.226 really service stations and old guy owned it. And a couple of times I go 00:06:32.259 --> 00:06:37.656 down to work and he, he went through about a bottle of scotch today I 00:06:37.689 --> 00:06:40.916 think. And a couple of times I told him one of us is gonna work here today 00:06:40.949 --> 00:06:46.106 , you decide which one. So he'd go back in the car and he'd sleep it off 00:06:46.139 --> 00:06:49.957 and things were slow at night when I worked. So I got a lot of homework 00:06:49.990 --> 00:06:53.507 done and that situation, 00:06:53.540 --> 00:07:00.137 but about the time I got my bachelor's degree one night fellow came in and 00:07:00.170 --> 00:07:07.187 won the car, have his car lubed and oil change and we were just chatting 00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:12.606 and he was on the faculty at caltech. 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:17.656 He said, I think you ought to go into teaching out of the blue. So that 00:07:17.689 --> 00:07:22.837 sounds pretty good. I've been the National Guard. And I started out in 00:07:22.870 --> 00:07:28.116 high school and by the time I went back to school I had a had a commission 00:07:28.149 --> 00:07:34.627 through the guard and I was active in the garden Eugene when I was there, 00:07:34.660 --> 00:07:42.660 which it was extra income. That was helpful too. And the so I went to my 00:07:42.699 --> 00:07:47.377 advisor and I said well what about this thing of teaching is I've been 00:07:47.410 --> 00:07:52.567 pretty successful and the things I've done in the military teaching. And 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:57.707 so he gave me this advice what to do with the master's program. 00:07:57.740 --> 00:08:01.986 I couldn't have gotten worse advice. Absolutely not worse advice. I went 00:08:02.019 --> 00:08:06.687 through this whole thing as an aside as a professor, you appreciate this 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:11.377 kind of thing. I had one class. They were they were in a not a semester 00:08:11.410 --> 00:08:15.187 system in the quarter system and there's one course, there was money and 00:08:15.220 --> 00:08:20.067 banking. I got in on that thing and the second quarter. Well it didn't 00:08:20.100 --> 00:08:26.366 seem to write but they sign me up and put me in. I averaged bees the end 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:30.027 of this quarter. I got to see and I went in to see the professor and I 00:08:30.060 --> 00:08:34.126 said, you know, I was with my grades, let's just see. He said, well no, 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:39.797 it's impossible for you to get better than a C if you missed the first 00:08:39.830 --> 00:08:42.207 quarter. 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:46.396 Okay so I'll live with that. You don't want to see in the graduate program. 00:08:46.429 --> 00:08:53.256 Right? So the next quarter I got all aids I got my grade at the end of 00:08:53.289 --> 00:08:57.896 the semester as a B. And I went and I said well how come I gotta be? And 00:08:57.929 --> 00:09:02.797 he said well it's impossible for anybody to get over a B that isn't an 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:10.830 economics major. Yeah it's wonderful. So I I survived through that thing. 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:15.496 But the bad advice was when I got all through getting rid of the program 00:09:15.529 --> 00:09:21.937 , I started sending out letters of applications to schools. And I've heard 00:09:21.970 --> 00:09:26.537 students say since then I've been at A. S. U. That they'll send out 00:09:26.570 --> 00:09:29.766 letters and they won't hear back from schools. It's just that's the end of 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:32.606 it. 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:40.639 The 1st 20 responses I got were all knows and here I was a wife had a baby. 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:48.840 Yeah. Yeah keeping them pretty poor all these years. And the four year 00:09:49.379 --> 00:09:55.136 schools want a PhD and I didn't have one. The junior colleges wanted the 00:09:55.169 --> 00:09:59.707 teaching certificate at night and have that and I was neither and or 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:05.427 fishing or follow on this thing. And finally Idaho State College in 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:12.197 Pocatello was desperate enough for faculty that they hired me. So that and 00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:16.697 that was that was a great experience and I just I enjoyed what I did. I 00:10:16.730 --> 00:10:22.447 thought I made my mistakes there which was which was fortunate for later 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:27.986 times And then I lucy and I my wife and I had agreed that I'd stay there 00:10:28.019 --> 00:10:34.506 for three years and see if I liked the teaching. And so 00:10:34.539 --> 00:10:41.077 After at the end of three years I began to apply for schools to go to. And 00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:46.467 the best offer I got financially, which is important was at the University 00:10:46.500 --> 00:10:53.606 of florida, Gainesville. So we went there while I was teaching. My wife 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:58.996 finished up her degree in education. So when we went to Gainesville, she 00:10:59.029 --> 00:11:04.626 got a job teaching the first two years in first grade and that last year 00:11:04.659 --> 00:11:10.756 in the fourth grade when I walked in the department chairman's office at 00:11:10.789 --> 00:11:15.587 the University of florida, I felt like he knew that I was going to get my 00:11:15.620 --> 00:11:20.817 doctoral degree. He just made me feel so comfortable and I got my 00:11:20.850 --> 00:11:26.907 assistantship at the teaching hospital associated with the university. 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:31.896 And the director of that treated me like I was one of the guys. So it was 00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:36.006 just a kind of a comfortable grown up experience for me to go through that 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:44.039 thing and had a chance to teach. And the dean was good enough and share 00:11:45.029 --> 00:11:49.547 good enough to me that he got extra money for me somehow. I never asked 00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:57.580 for it, but I was well pleased to get it. And so I began to apply for 00:11:57.710 --> 00:12:03.187 teaching positions. I was finishing up. I couldn't do it anymore, but I 00:12:03.220 --> 00:12:07.817 did that the world's changed, but I got my degree in three years when I 00:12:07.850 --> 00:12:14.376 went there and there were guys that were there before I got there and 00:12:14.409 --> 00:12:17.207 we're still there afterwards. 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:21.567 But I was given an office that had had three of the doctoral students in 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:27.407 it and I gave it up after a few days because they were all talking another 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:31.986 doctor. Yeah, you're not in your head, huh? You see that and I want to get 00:12:32.019 --> 00:12:38.707 the heck out and get to work and then get on with my life. So ah I began 00:12:38.740 --> 00:12:42.026 to find out when I was applying for jobs, I was just provincial enough. I 00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:47.026 wanted to be west of the Rocky Mountains, that was home and my preference 00:12:47.059 --> 00:12:53.087 was the University of Washington. And I interviewed there, They had four 00:12:53.120 --> 00:13:00.026 positions and they didn't give me an offer and I went to the regional 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:05.947 meetings of the Academy of Management, which is our club in Miami and my 00:13:05.980 --> 00:13:11.026 chairman, Bill Will Wilma, He introduced me to Keith Davis and he was at 00:13:11.059 --> 00:13:15.756 eight issue and he was a hotshot in the management had successful 00:13:15.789 --> 00:13:20.526 textbooks and had been the national president of the Academy and all this 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:26.957 stuff. He could have gone a lot of places, but he liked the sunshine and 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:32.396 he and he was an expert in Citrix and he grew he was all his backyard, he 00:13:32.429 --> 00:13:37.106 won competitions at the state fairs 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:44.506 and so I was impressed with that. So um he said good things for me at uh 00:13:44.539 --> 00:13:49.447 at a S. U. And then there was a national meeting in the academy of new 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:54.356 york and I went to that and Glenn Overman who was the Dean. And joe shea 00:13:54.389 --> 00:14:00.337 backer who had been the chair at in my department management at A. S. U. 00:14:00.370 --> 00:14:05.707 At that time was business vice president. And they were there and I 00:14:05.740 --> 00:14:12.707 interviewed with them and after that they invited me to come to you as you. 00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:18.506 So I I came here and 00:14:18.539 --> 00:14:23.047 conducting the interview and I made one of my mistakes and and it 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:27.817 Olbermann, the Dean said how much money do you want? I haven't even 00:14:27.850 --> 00:14:32.807 thought about it. And I said well I wouldn't want to take any more than X. 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:37.096 He said we'll give you X. I wish I would have said X plus one. And I 00:14:37.129 --> 00:14:41.506 wasn't smart enough to do that. So I guess I lost that much every year. As 00:14:41.539 --> 00:14:47.407 long as I was at a issue at 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:54.726 when I got here. The thing is just I just fell in place for me keith Davis 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:57.907 was teaching the kind of courses I wanted. But he reached the point he 00:14:57.940 --> 00:15:02.567 didn't want to do those anymore, that's what I wanted to teach. They had 00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:10.207 an active program for non non degree courses for like mental management 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:16.417 and in one area that why keith was teaching that and he didn't want to do 00:15:16.450 --> 00:15:22.116 that anymore. And I stepped into that and this is moonlighting now and he 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:29.006 did some stuff with Motorola when was Motorola was Motorola's. And 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:34.587 so I took over over that part. And my comment earlier was I made my 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:38.587 mistakes at Idaho State and I was really, I think in pretty good shape 00:15:38.620 --> 00:15:44.846 when I came in here do those kinds of things. And I was I was popular with 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:51.866 the students, I was popular with with the managers and the dean like this 00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:58.226 stuff with the community. And so that day, so I was popular with him. An 00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:04.006 interesting part of politics for me though, we go to a social gathering 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:08.207 and Glenn Overman, he looked right through me. He didn't like he didn't 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.337 have anything to do, you know, couldn't contribute anything to his 00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:17.807 politics, but he knew what I was doing and I came in. Assistant professor. 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.506 Two years later, I was associate. Four years later I was a full professor 00:16:21.539 --> 00:16:27.587 , which is about as fast track as I've heard anybody do and enjoying 00:16:27.620 --> 00:16:35.287 myself all the time. So I was at The University of Florida, 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:40.866 66. Came came here directly and 00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:44.707 they're coming about Dino vermin 00:16:44.740 --> 00:16:50.636 in management. We would call him a benevolent autocrat. He did everything 00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:56.297 for the College of Business. He was 25 hours a day, days a week for that 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:03.307 college. But he controlled everything. Absolutely. And we had a memo come 00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:09.597 down one time from the President's office, trying to distinguish between 00:17:09.630 --> 00:17:13.516 what colleges could and couldn't do and what departments couldn't couldn't 00:17:13.549 --> 00:17:19.207 do. And we had monthly meetings with the college. That's what Dean wanted 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:25.857 to do. And one of those meetings then said with you got this memo. Now he 00:17:25.890 --> 00:17:31.607 said, whenever you see on that document, it says department reed college, 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:37.306 he wasn't going to delegate anything beyond on his office. He made to work 00:17:37.339 --> 00:17:41.107 and 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:48.006 he was good. The Dean was, was sensitive to the people. A lot of people 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:54.336 didn't like the social aspect, but he'd have a punching cookie activity at 00:17:54.369 --> 00:17:59.157 the beginning of the year and the end of the year. And at later times, 00:17:59.190 --> 00:18:05.197 Dean's would get forced string orchestras to come up and play at the 00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:09.826 christmas parties and so on. Dean would call up one of the wives and say 00:18:09.859 --> 00:18:13.647 get some of the ladies together, make some cookies, put together the punch 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:21.326 , you know, and but those were good times. But then the layout, name tags 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:26.806 on the table outside the rumor, we'd meet and then he'd come at the end of 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:30.836 the meeting, he'd pick up the tags and make sure who, who didn't go to the 00:18:30.869 --> 00:18:35.597 parties. So then some college, you know, always say, well the charlie 00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:41.887 Sadie's not coming. So they pick up their tickets. You know, the name tags 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:49.920 he had for several years. He would have a at thanksgiving time. He said 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:56.127 everybody's new schools growing rapidly. Nobody's from around here. You 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.826 know, people don't have families. And so he just proposed anybody wanted 00:19:00.859 --> 00:19:06.417 to do it. We didn't reserved space at South Mountain and we go down there 00:19:06.450 --> 00:19:12.367 and everybody bring their own fixing their own party. And we we could 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:18.006 visit that way. And that that was good. We had 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:23.407 once a year have a formal party. 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:29.147 When I first came department of management. We had 12 faculty members, all 00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:35.266 men, all married, all Children. All had been in the military one way or 00:19:35.299 --> 00:19:39.357 another. And 00:19:39.390 --> 00:19:43.476 That was the change over time. We began to grow. It was easier to know 00:19:43.509 --> 00:19:49.506 people when there's 12 and you get larger. It's harder to know more people. 00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:54.526 And then there was the pressure on we've got to diversify. We gotta get 00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.786 women in and minorities. 00:19:58.819 --> 00:20:03.816 Well the problem with that was that women didn't think there was much 00:20:03.849 --> 00:20:07.927 opportunity to be in business. So they weren't going on to doctoral 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:12.486 programs. And it's the same for a lot of the minorities. When I was 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:18.847 teaching at Idaho State, almost all of the students were men. and I 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:23.566 remember one class that there were two women in the class of about 35. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:28.907 What was the size of the your department when you came in here and the 00:20:28.940 --> 00:20:34.437 size of the college. How many know enough students? Student student majors 00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:37.986 that you had? I couldn't tell you seek. I don't know. There were about 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:42.036 18,000 students at A. S. U. But I don't know. You have no idea what the 00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:45.967 numbers that were in the college. It was one of the largest college 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:52.437 besides liberal if I recall you were growing very rapidly as many other 00:20:52.470 --> 00:20:57.236 colleges was a popular degree and people want to get into it. I'm gonna 00:20:57.269 --> 00:21:01.657 back up a little bit though on a couple of things that I personally I'd 00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:06.917 like to know about. Maybe some other people that look at this would like 00:21:06.950 --> 00:21:14.950 the same. And that is lucy was always lucy or was it Lucille? Well it was 00:21:14.950 --> 00:21:20.167 Lucille in school and I started calling her lucy. I don't know if you want 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.927 to do something sort of affectionate I guess. And it got around to the 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:28.937 point where we'd be at a social gathering and I'd say this is my wife 00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:34.496 Lucille and I'd call her lucy. And I said well now what is it So lucy? And 00:21:34.529 --> 00:21:37.586 I had to talk about this and said we might as well introduce you as Lucy. 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:44.306 Right. Save all the confusion. So that's what it was in 1950 to 1950s. 00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:47.107 Also 00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:53.566 I noticed that your mother's name was Lucille but my Lucille had one l and 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:58.957 my mother had to. Well yeah I can tell them apart that I was wondering 00:21:58.990 --> 00:22:05.006 that I thought was a little unusual. Well I was sort of insulted one time 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:10.066 an adult lady said when she found out with the name of my fiancee, she 00:22:10.099 --> 00:22:14.266 said isn't it interesting how often men married women with the same names 00:22:14.299 --> 00:22:20.326 as their mother And that sounds sort of sick. So I didn't know you 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:25.357 mentioned one child. Yes. How many daughter? Daughter, Daughter Angela. 00:22:25.390 --> 00:22:31.907 That's one child. All right. And she was born 00:22:31.940 --> 00:22:34.546 and what's 00:22:34.579 --> 00:22:39.526 in Wallawalla? We were living in a little town in Oregon, but the best 00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:45.407 hospital was in the Wallawalla. So that's well 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:51.076 you did you were you the only one in your family then? Do you have 00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:56.207 brothers? No, I have a I have a brother that's eight years younger than I. 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:04.240 And that was it. And then when my mother remarried, she had one son. So 00:23:04.299 --> 00:23:09.207 I've got a got a half brother. And 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:14.806 and we keep in touch with the three of us all of that. But between I was 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:19.447 22 months from graduating from high school when this half brother was born. 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.976 So he's closer to my daughter's age than he is to my age. And and they 00:23:24.009 --> 00:23:29.516 have a good relationship too. So yeah, okay, now they live in other parts. 00:23:29.549 --> 00:23:35.157 Yeah, my my brother lives in Taggart which is just outside of Portland 00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:40.006 Oregon. And he was mostly in 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:47.766 medical sales field and selling equipment and services and so on. And he 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:53.486 was a salesman like my father, I never had that touch that do that. He's 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.276 one of these guys that said, you know, I don't sell the steak, I sell the 00:23:56.309 --> 00:24:02.766 sizzle and he just had fun with that. And the half brother is retired from 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:09.476 the Marine Corps. He was uh gunship, helicopter pilot was retired as 00:24:09.509 --> 00:24:14.407 lieutenant colonel. He had he had a good service, very good, I just wanted 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:17.576 to know more about it. I thought others would be interested in your family 00:24:17.609 --> 00:24:22.907 as well. We're talking about the family lucy had two sisters, an older one 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:25.006 married 00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.006 fellow from her college while the wall there 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:33.897 that three sisters and both of the husbands and the other two all went to 00:24:33.930 --> 00:24:38.197 this Whittman College and they turned out some pretty good people have one 00:24:38.230 --> 00:24:46.230 brother who just died ah retired as a marine Major General and it was fun 00:24:46.690 --> 00:24:51.917 watching him from, I knew him when he was courting my sister in law and 00:24:51.950 --> 00:24:56.026 all through his career to see that. And the other one was from California 00:24:56.059 --> 00:25:02.377 , married the younger sister and he was among other things Superintendent 00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:07.506 of Banking and established a bank. So uh 00:25:07.539 --> 00:25:12.597 they did well now you said you were buried then when you went after your 00:25:12.630 --> 00:25:17.826 doctorate and even with your masters, you know people say my wife worked 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:23.137 me through college, my wife worked me through three degrees. Okay then I 00:25:23.170 --> 00:25:30.016 was also interested in lucy about when is it time that she took up the 00:25:30.049 --> 00:25:37.357 harp, harp? Well, she was pretty accomplished in violin as a kid even. And 00:25:37.390 --> 00:25:41.627 Wallah Wallah as small as it was. And because it had a university and the 00:25:41.660 --> 00:25:47.066 college had had some musical skill there as well as people in the 00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:52.276 community. They've they've had a symphony orchestra in the town for over 00:25:52.309 --> 00:25:59.617 100 years. And even as a kid she played in that and when we recording she 00:25:59.650 --> 00:26:05.526 said I'm I'd like to have a harp and it was sort of like on bended knee 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:09.377 and tongue in cheek, I said marry me and I'll buy you are who you know and 00:26:09.410 --> 00:26:15.707 has a heart, you know, we both know nobody has harps and 00:26:15.740 --> 00:26:23.407 Mhm. Our daughter was in college, Angela was at any you and this was in 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:29.296 Early 70s and Lucy said I still want to play the heart 00:26:29.329 --> 00:26:36.006 and I said we can do that. So she hunted around and she found Esther 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:41.657 Mclaughlin who had taught heart at A. S. U. But the music school had 00:26:41.690 --> 00:26:47.306 discontinued the heart for whatever reason. And so she was playing 00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:52.556 professionally and and teaching students and lucy they became fast friends. 00:26:52.589 --> 00:27:00.147 That was a special relationship between the two of and lucy got she lucy 00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:08.046 new music theory, she knew music, she was so enthusiastic. three years 00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:13.836 after she started teaching she was playing for real money and if people 00:27:13.869 --> 00:27:17.627 would have known she would have paid them to play, she just loved to be 00:27:17.660 --> 00:27:25.660 out there and do that. And as part of that with a S. U. For 23 out of 24 00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:33.187 years she played at the annual Christmas Party at the Emu and the one year 00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:40.496 she didn't It was getting kind of close to the end of the 24 she sprained 00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:42.907 her wrist 00:27:42.940 --> 00:27:49.437 and they had a sign outside the the room where the party was 00:27:49.470 --> 00:27:55.246 and said lucy angels not white isn't gonna be here because she sprained 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:59.387 her they knew people were gonna be looking for when she first started 00:27:59.420 --> 00:28:03.707 doing that and I helped her move the harp up. 00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:07.347 I told her she should have stayed with the violin, it was easier to move 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:14.776 than the harp. But when we first she first started doing it they set her 00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:18.256 up in the middle of the room and it was all decorated with the christmas 00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:20.306 stuff 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:24.586 and to tell the historic story for people that might not know that that 00:28:24.619 --> 00:28:31.407 thing that draws thousands of people every year with punch and cookies and 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.796 people come up and talk to her lucy's talk and she'd chat with she's loved 00:28:35.829 --> 00:28:40.286 it, they want to talk about the harp friends that come over and strangers 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.857 come over and they talk I thought you know the administration, the emu is 00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:50.266 not gonna be happy with this. But she went through three directors of the 00:28:50.299 --> 00:28:56.117 Emu including Floyd land you know and they just loved her and they loved 00:28:56.150 --> 00:29:01.217 it that they people cared about. So yeah it was just she was a good deal 00:29:01.250 --> 00:29:07.897 but she played up to 12 account kept track up to 12 00:29:07.930 --> 00:29:14.637 different activities on at A. S. U. The college would have a social 00:29:14.670 --> 00:29:20.907 gathering or they'd have it do something else. She played at 00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:27.597 one of the dinners for the honorary doctorates you know and that's what 00:29:27.630 --> 00:29:34.326 she she played for the alumni association and so on. Yeah and her gift was 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.427 the issue was played the christmas wonder when the next the other one she 00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:42.117 built them. But she did that well I know her as a very special person to 00:29:42.150 --> 00:29:49.306 just as you. So switching again then back to another 00:29:49.339 --> 00:29:55.707 era of the errors and that is who really hired you and your, was it the 00:29:55.740 --> 00:30:02.167 dean who did all of that? Well it would be the glen Overman was really the 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:08.427 final authority but how Ferran It was one of the chairman and he came in 00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:16.460 1960 so that was just six years before me. He and he had just been made 00:30:16.569 --> 00:30:24.569 chair. They'd search for a chair apparently and couldn't find it good fit. 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:28.976 So he said I don't want the job and he told me he said I told him I take 00:30:29.009 --> 00:30:34.717 it for three years he did it for 14 so he got to find find a comfortable 00:30:34.750 --> 00:30:39.806 place that to be there and in the old days 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.867 that here I was an assistant professor coming in and Carl Dannon felt he 00:30:44.900 --> 00:30:48.877 was the vice president of academic affairs interviewed me. Oh he's the one 00:30:48.910 --> 00:30:54.137 who did yeah so you know I can't imagine they do that with many faculty 00:30:54.170 --> 00:31:00.226 anymore. Devin the progressing review but and that was good because Carl 00:31:00.259 --> 00:31:05.707 and I had a good relationship and and he put me on a lot of committees and 00:31:05.740 --> 00:31:10.766 so that's, that's got started off well. But I'd say glenn really what was 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:16.177 your impression of a s you when you first came on campus? I went home and 00:31:16.210 --> 00:31:24.210 I told lucy I said it's it's a little campus and I walked down Apache and 00:31:24.700 --> 00:31:29.806 part of that on the south side there wasn't even a sidewalk 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.707 and I said it's a dusty little place and I really feel comfortable there. 00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:39.476 I'd like to go and she said, well let's let's do that. So she was always 00:31:39.509 --> 00:31:43.397 so supportive. 00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:51.286 They the campus was college avenue run through north south. And I guess it 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.607 was Orange street that ran east west and 00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:00.887 we were on the, what they call it now the administration building at the 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.756 time. I was on the, on the west side of college. If we wanted to go with 00:32:05.789 --> 00:32:09.937 the emu to get a cup of coffee, we had to wait for the traffic to go by, 00:32:09.970 --> 00:32:17.707 you know. Right, okay. Mm hmm. 00:32:17.740 --> 00:32:25.046 When you made a decision to come here, you had in mind strictly management 00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:29.677 or were you looking for other types of position at the issue? No, I was 00:32:29.710 --> 00:32:36.486 management specifically. Okay. You also mentioned and what I read that you 00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:43.546 were involved in mediation arbitration and so forth. 00:32:43.579 --> 00:32:50.226 When I was at florida, my management was the major and I had a minor in 00:32:50.259 --> 00:32:58.259 labor economics, which is union and um social psychology so that fit into. 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:03.236 Because what I thought of the management was mostly the quote behavioral 00:33:03.269 --> 00:33:07.847 stuff, anything we could steal from psychology and sociology and put it in 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:14.207 the business situation. So when I came 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:21.907 when I first came I found out That five faculty in the department had left. 00:33:21.940 --> 00:33:25.976 And I've reflected since I wonder if I would have come if I would have 00:33:26.009 --> 00:33:29.857 known there was gonna be that kind of turnover. But they hired five new 00:33:29.890 --> 00:33:34.536 ones of us when we came in. Well one of them had left. I was teaching the 00:33:34.569 --> 00:33:41.516 union management course. So I said yeah I'll teach that. Well then the 00:33:41.549 --> 00:33:45.556 students started asking me about what was I? A labor arbitrator and I got 00:33:45.589 --> 00:33:51.526 to be a little bit embarrassed about it. But shortly after I came one of 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:56.707 the new faculty members was associated with. 00:33:56.740 --> 00:34:01.877 I've got to contact with faculty member and economics at the University of 00:34:01.910 --> 00:34:06.786 Arizona. And a fellow who was the head of the Federal Mediation 00:34:06.819 --> 00:34:14.126 Conciliation Service for Arizona and new Mexico. Um and they their job is 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:19.057 a federal job but their job is to keep union and management from going out 00:34:19.090 --> 00:34:25.106 on strike. So and they they wanted to form an association. So they invited 00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:30.247 me to join the group. So I was one of the four originators of that group 00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:35.537 and the second president of it. And so the students were asked, started 00:34:35.570 --> 00:34:38.677 asking you labor night and and labor report traitor. But I thought I'd 00:34:38.710 --> 00:34:44.677 better do it. So I needed to have some acquaintance with people in the 00:34:44.710 --> 00:34:50.066 management side and the union side and the independent side like Federal 00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:55.296 mediation is the national labor Relations Board, that sort of thing. So I 00:34:55.329 --> 00:35:00.486 knew all those people. So I hear I was a college professor. I knew the 00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:06.037 bright people and so that automatically made me an arbitrator. So And I 00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:10.907 did that for 30 years. 00:35:10.940 --> 00:35:18.940 Another point then when you came to a S. U. Was there anything that you 00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:26.017 felt was very special to you? 00:35:26.050 --> 00:35:29.506 I guess the special part was 00:35:29.539 --> 00:35:35.287 that I got my own way. Yeah that that may sound like I'm dodging the 00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:39.436 question but it was it was a comfortable thing. I was told for a long time. 00:35:39.469 --> 00:35:43.126 I hope I'm answering your question. I was told for a long time that there 00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:47.807 was politics at Arizona State University 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:53.267 and I believed him because they told me but I never saw it in later years 00:35:53.300 --> 00:35:57.347 I learned about what where I learned what politics was. There's no 00:35:57.380 --> 00:36:02.416 politics when you get what you want. There's politics when you don't get 00:36:02.449 --> 00:36:07.736 what you want. Unfortunately early I got what I want later on I didn't 00:36:07.769 --> 00:36:11.396 always get what I want but I was where I wanted to be. So that wasn't so 00:36:11.429 --> 00:36:16.296 bad. Yeah there were certain college that worked with each other. 00:36:16.329 --> 00:36:24.329 Yeah I people people tell me about it that here. I got a bad chairman, I 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:29.537 got a bad dean. I got a bad this and that. And I thought, you know, that's 00:36:29.570 --> 00:36:32.807 mostly over in liberal arts, fine arts. They don't, they don't like 00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:38.557 authority anyway. Right. So they don't understand about this thing, but I 00:36:38.590 --> 00:36:44.296 was on some grievance committees and I found out they really had some 00:36:44.329 --> 00:36:49.486 legitimate complaints, you know, and I was very fortunate And I think in 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:53.217 the, in the whole college of business that we had some pretty reasonable 00:36:53.250 --> 00:36:59.387 chairman and dealing with problems, faculty, was there any event today 00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:07.420 issue that really impressed you? 00:37:07.630 --> 00:37:11.597 I don't know. 00:37:11.630 --> 00:37:15.236 Again, I'm not asking your question. I guess just the whole atmosphere is 00:37:15.269 --> 00:37:22.177 just comfortable. Yeah, this was, it was a family type. Well, it it was 00:37:22.210 --> 00:37:26.436 earlier until it began to change. I mentioned all these married guys. 00:37:26.469 --> 00:37:33.247 We're a small department. But as we grew ah and this is not a value 00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:38.057 judgment, but it's as we grew, we got hard to get women because there 00:37:38.090 --> 00:37:42.296 weren't many and there was all that competition nationwide. 00:37:42.329 --> 00:37:47.836 But of the 3 1st women, we hired, two of them were already divorced and 00:37:47.869 --> 00:37:53.736 the third one divorced after she came and we began to hire some guys that 00:37:53.769 --> 00:38:00.467 were divorced. And then we had some of the people that one was here even 00:38:00.500 --> 00:38:08.086 before I came that eventually divorced. Another guy did, it changed. Ah 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:12.986 sort of what words? I remember 11 day, three of the divorced guys on a 00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:17.447 monday morning, the faculty were out in the hall talking about the wild 00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:23.486 time they had over the weekend. Well, his old married guys better not talk 00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.827 about things like that, you know? So it was it was a different deal. But 00:38:27.860 --> 00:38:33.287 there was a lot of socializing. 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:37.767 I made the comment one time, lucy and I were either going to a party or 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:41.767 giving a party. And there was there was there was a lot of that was good. 00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:46.896 Yeah, we had a had a party one time. We hadn't been very long. We came up 00:38:46.929 --> 00:38:50.327 with a list of 100 and we said, you know, we can't have 100 people in here 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:55.646 , but we didn't know who to leave off. So he said, well, well Time it will 00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:59.157 have two hours and we'll have 50 come in and then we'll have next to ours 00:38:59.190 --> 00:39:04.666 , another 50 come in. The first two hours was over in the 1st 50. Never 00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:09.617 left. And we went, I 00:39:09.650 --> 00:39:14.247 think that said a lot for the environment, you know, the people that just 00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:19.126 didn't want to make a showing and take off. Yeah. But Glenn was out in the 00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:25.539 backyard with his department chairman doing business at that party. Okay. 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:28.000 During the time in your department, what do you think was the greatest 00:39:30.030 --> 00:39:38.030 achievement of your department And how you were you were you involved? 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:47.719 Well, 1, 1 role is that we taught two courses ah basic management course 00:39:48.119 --> 00:39:53.697 and for freshmen and we caught one course which was called Policy which is 00:39:53.730 --> 00:39:59.836 now strategy. I think that's the current name ah which was a case course 00:39:59.869 --> 00:40:04.767 given stories about real businesses and what's good and bad about it and 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:10.367 what would you do to fix it? And 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:15.336 the nature of our department early was that all of us taught both of those 00:40:15.369 --> 00:40:20.557 courses, Not all the same same semesters but there was there was kind of a 00:40:20.590 --> 00:40:25.166 common bond that was involved with that I think a sense that we were 00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:32.197 giving a service to the total college and then even later on that more 00:40:32.230 --> 00:40:38.166 departments around the campus, certain majors like communication, it was a 00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:44.977 requirement to take some management courses and 00:40:45.010 --> 00:40:51.387 I I think the growth um health Iran and I'll give him credit for us. We 00:40:51.420 --> 00:40:59.420 had once we lost a couple at first to five that were hired when I was left 00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:05.787 soon we had a very stable department and I think hal created that sort of 00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:11.947 environment for us. So what's the big accomplishment? I guess this is just 00:41:11.980 --> 00:41:19.247 the sense of service that we were doing our job. And did you ever do any 00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:25.327 follow up with your graduates? You know I I admire these people. I hear 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:30.967 about you know they talk about them later. I I wasn't involved with the 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:39.000 doctoral program but I shared six dissertations and 00:41:39.710 --> 00:41:45.586 six of them. That was I was God I bet. And close to four of them. That's 00:41:45.619 --> 00:41:50.967 that's good. But I don't know what that other magic touches some of my my 00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:57.077 friends. That's an ongoing thing. I really admire that. I think that I had 00:41:57.110 --> 00:42:03.137 good relationships while they were there but I didn't continue much beyond 00:42:03.170 --> 00:42:07.166 that. 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:13.727 What advice would you give to young people today that are anticipating 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:19.367 coming to A. S. U. 00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:26.486 Well I'll tell you given what I've seen here. I've told people I retired 00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:32.247 from a different institution that I joined. 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:37.327 And certainly since I've been retired there's been a world of difference 00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:43.767 and and what's going on? I'd say you better be adapt 00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:51.546 until what yeah. To the change. Try to anticipate it if you can stay up 00:42:51.579 --> 00:42:56.037 with it if you must and try to make some of it happen if it's if it's 00:42:56.070 --> 00:43:00.197 possible to. But yeah it's just it's not going to stay the same. And 00:43:00.230 --> 00:43:04.157 certainly I think the way our world is it's going to be even more of a 00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:11.796 change in the near future. I'm gonna change again a little direction too 00:43:11.829 --> 00:43:18.876 to the retirees association. I know you had a lot of influence in very 00:43:18.909 --> 00:43:24.767 aspects of this organization. 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:30.137 What was your feeling really about the association and what was the 00:43:30.170 --> 00:43:36.356 greatest input that you feel you had. Well it was I think probably in 00:43:36.389 --> 00:43:43.017 existence about 23 years before I retired and I didn't even know it 00:43:43.050 --> 00:43:47.927 existed matt that's called me, asked me to join the board and I didn't 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:53.597 even know it was there and I was trying to undo some of the things I had 00:43:53.630 --> 00:43:57.997 out in the, in the community that I associated with teaching and it takes 00:43:58.030 --> 00:44:03.037 a little while to. So I told him no. So he asked me three years in a row, 00:44:03.070 --> 00:44:09.486 so the third year I accepted and then I was on board immediately, they 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.546 assigned me to be the treasurer. Mhm. Because I was in business right? 00:44:14.579 --> 00:44:18.296 Somehow, rather a year of accountant made me qualified treasurer for most 00:44:18.329 --> 00:44:24.117 organizations I've been. And then the next year, this part of the humbling 00:44:24.150 --> 00:44:30.597 thing that goes on in life, ah they were alternating between staff and 00:44:30.630 --> 00:44:35.057 faculty to be the president of the association. 00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:39.396 And it came up and he said, well, 00:44:39.429 --> 00:44:44.416 so, coming into my second year, I said, well now, you know, Sadie would 00:44:44.449 --> 00:44:47.197 you do it? And I don't wanna do it, charlie you do it and I don't want to 00:44:47.230 --> 00:44:52.137 do it. And they ran out of people and they asked me if I do it and I'd say 00:44:52.170 --> 00:44:57.896 yeah, I'll do it. So that's how come I wound up being this chair elect and 00:44:57.929 --> 00:45:05.929 then the chair of the group for a year. And 00:45:06.989 --> 00:45:13.077 so We were getting close to the 10th year of the association and I think 00:45:13.110 --> 00:45:19.387 that maybe the contribution I made was I proposed to the board. How about 00:45:19.420 --> 00:45:24.637 we have a 10 year history while people are still around Diana Riegner who 00:45:24.670 --> 00:45:29.686 was one of the early ones, a good friend of mine before I retired, she was 00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:37.719 in student advising and job placement. And 00:45:40.389 --> 00:45:44.456 but everybody, everybody else was alive. And I said we got to do this 00:45:44.489 --> 00:45:50.427 board was agreeable to it. I went to Dean smith asked him if he'd write it. 00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:56.756 I didn't realize how complicated the job was going to be and 00:45:56.789 --> 00:46:04.789 he had the june pain to help him. And then I was off the board. So the job 00:46:05.389 --> 00:46:09.916 got to be done. So you were instrumental in getting that thing published 00:46:09.949 --> 00:46:15.566 along with some other people. And I'm glad it was done. I don't know 00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:18.936 whether anybody has ever read that beside those of us who are listed in it 00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:24.137 , but I'm I'm glad the document was done. And then more recently with the 00:46:24.170 --> 00:46:29.037 20th year, the book has come out too. So I think that's a good set of 00:46:29.070 --> 00:46:31.447 history. 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:37.236 Were you involved at all at the layers on relating to legislative 00:46:37.269 --> 00:46:39.847 activities 00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:43.847 right after. 00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:46.566 Can I go back 00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:51.197 early when I was at a S. U. For some reason or other, I was asked to run 00:46:51.230 --> 00:46:58.236 to be um Senate President, faculty Senate. It's gone through a couple of 00:46:58.269 --> 00:47:05.137 name changes, they call it university's Senate now and it was one of the 00:47:05.170 --> 00:47:10.086 best of the best kept secrets in campus. I lost that one. Hands down and a 00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:14.776 couple of other years I was asked again, but for professional or personal 00:47:14.809 --> 00:47:22.809 reasons I turned him down. But I was asked then again and to run and I did 00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:29.717 run and I won that time 00:47:29.750 --> 00:47:32.046 and 00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:37.447 I was president 89 90. 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:43.646 And so the one year is chair elect 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:50.506 and christian valentine from the performing arts was the president and she 00:47:50.539 --> 00:47:55.907 was great upbeat, you know, just just fun to be with the previous year and 00:47:55.940 --> 00:48:01.736 this is part of the A. S. U. History. The previous year, Michael Nielsen 00:48:01.769 --> 00:48:06.637 had been president of the Senate and he was instrumental in working with 00:48:06.670 --> 00:48:11.236 the three universities to come together to go to the regions and say 00:48:11.269 --> 00:48:16.006 faculty ought to be represented at the region's meetings and they just 00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:21.236 didn't. I like the idea there. How come it was that you didn't want to 00:48:21.269 --> 00:48:25.017 talk to faculty when the whole thing was about students and faculty that 00:48:25.050 --> 00:48:30.336 everyone can do that. And 00:48:30.369 --> 00:48:36.736 so anyway, they said it's okay. Finally they agreed that we do it. So when 00:48:36.769 --> 00:48:41.606 I was chair elect, it was the first time that we showed up at the region's 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:47.907 meeting. So the three universities had representatives there and nobody 00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:51.747 talked to us. You know, we just show up and we'd sit on the back bench and 00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:56.106 a lot of the stuff was closed meetings. So we didn't see. But when it was 00:48:56.139 --> 00:49:02.486 open, extremely formal, couldn't believe it. I just, I couldn't, but I 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.586 never saw anything like it before. They were around a long table. The 00:49:06.619 --> 00:49:10.566 president be at one hand and then the other end was an open chair and the 00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:15.787 rest of down the side of the table so they call some staff person and to 00:49:15.820 --> 00:49:18.637 make a report. 00:49:18.670 --> 00:49:25.057 And I saw somebody to ask a question. It was region jones. That's the 00:49:25.090 --> 00:49:30.537 question. So the respondent the staff guy would say 00:49:30.570 --> 00:49:37.046 ah chair smith regent jones answered the question. I would have forgotten 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:41.807 what the question was by the time I went through that formality that's the 00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:49.840 way the thing was stiff. one of the regions as a lawyer and he had a wife 00:49:50.059 --> 00:49:55.256 who is a student at A. S. U. He talked to us but he was the only one who 00:49:55.289 --> 00:49:59.867 did that. But it was good communication. We talked to the representatives 00:49:59.900 --> 00:50:04.227 of the other two colleges 00:50:04.260 --> 00:50:06.727 and then 00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:10.767 uh there was there was a one or two openings that came up and there had 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:16.236 never been in a S. U. Graduate on the regions but there had always been 00:50:16.269 --> 00:50:22.936 several from the U. Of a. So Rose Mofford was the governor at the time. I 00:50:22.969 --> 00:50:27.057 wrote her a letter as I'm sure lots of people did and I says about a Sgs 00:50:27.090 --> 00:50:32.657 time, she never responded and they didn't she didn't appoint a sus but she 00:50:32.690 --> 00:50:36.026 appointed ah 00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:38.387 Eddie basher 00:50:38.420 --> 00:50:43.896 and of the grocery store fame. He got the round head bit overweight 00:50:43.929 --> 00:50:50.927 boisterous guy. All this formality going on 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:55.526 and I just loved it. Eddie would sit there, it's a chair and somebody 00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:59.077 would come up with, well we're going to cover such and such an agenda and 00:50:59.110 --> 00:51:01.577 and said where is it? I never heard anything about that, we're gonna get 00:51:01.610 --> 00:51:05.327 some staff guide come rushing up and giving the paperwork. He said, well 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:09.396 let me take a look at this before we get started on. It wasn't long that 00:51:09.429 --> 00:51:15.637 he was when he was on one of the committees for the regions and I sat in 00:51:15.670 --> 00:51:20.727 on this thing and the chair, 00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:26.967 I couldn't be there. So Eddie was the chair of this, this committee, 00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:33.327 his big round head and the glasses up on his head, he said call me Eddie, 00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:39.856 he just broke down the barriers on that thing and I'm sure if I thought it 00:51:39.889 --> 00:51:44.477 was dumb, I'm sure a lot of the region's did as well and they just gave up 00:51:44.510 --> 00:51:48.526 on all the formality. I they may have said something in the closed session 00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:55.727 but it was an entirely different, different kind of atmosphere. When 00:51:55.760 --> 00:52:02.727 Herman Shannon, the construction guy was on regions and he took a shine to 00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:06.847 kristen valentine. And a couple of times he flew her down and his private 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:11.617 just when they rotated these board meetings between the three campuses 00:52:11.650 --> 00:52:16.577 regions meetings. So he flew her down a couple of times, I think that 00:52:16.610 --> 00:52:21.646 helped communication immensely. And at the last day that she was the 00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:27.117 president in the spring, why he gave her a hug. 00:52:27.150 --> 00:52:31.497 So the next year I'm just, I was the president and they were a little 00:52:31.530 --> 00:52:37.227 border region is a little bit more open, but but not much. And at the last 00:52:37.260 --> 00:52:45.260 meeting, Edith slander was the chairman and I asked God, I put together 00:52:45.769 --> 00:52:53.706 that I gave to the the senate faculty senate and a group of cartoons as a 00:52:53.739 --> 00:52:57.327 professor of management accumulated stuff had to do with management and 00:52:57.360 --> 00:53:02.416 organization and stuff that I thought had to do with what I've been doing 00:53:02.449 --> 00:53:08.686 the year of the region's just goofy stuff. And so I had so I asked also, I 00:53:08.719 --> 00:53:11.477 wonder if I could hand these out to the regions. He said, well why don't 00:53:11.510 --> 00:53:15.166 you say something to the group? I didn't intend on doing that. So I sat on 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:19.856 that empty, empty chair and I made some comments about what I thought was 00:53:19.889 --> 00:53:26.267 wonderful about the fact that the faculty was here and we could share what 00:53:26.300 --> 00:53:30.566 was going on. And I thanked him for doing that and I said, one of the 00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:35.977 things I thought was nice was region Chanin giving Christine valentine a 00:53:36.010 --> 00:53:41.316 hug. He said, hell, I'm not going to hug you. I said, I understand Edith 00:53:41.349 --> 00:53:45.977 Auslander came around the chairs around the table and gave me a hug. You 00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:51.887 know, these are good things for communication. So yeah, another thing 00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:55.717 about being a mom, I may have not answered your question that I think 00:53:55.750 --> 00:54:01.977 about being on this thing with, with the regions. They required that each 00:54:02.010 --> 00:54:07.686 of the three universities have a luncheon 00:54:07.719 --> 00:54:15.307 and with the regions and quote faculty leadership. So I hired all the, 00:54:15.340 --> 00:54:20.416 they board of directors for the, for the senate to come to this luncheon 00:54:20.449 --> 00:54:22.907 and 00:54:22.940 --> 00:54:26.756 half of the region's showed up. I thought, you know, isn't this, they're 00:54:26.789 --> 00:54:30.776 requiring a university pay for this thing and then I'll let all of them 00:54:30.809 --> 00:54:36.637 show up in the first place. But I was asked to make the presentation. So I 00:54:36.670 --> 00:54:39.807 told him, you know, I don't know, I'm trying to think what I would, I 00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:45.816 should say at this and I decided I'm going to tell you regions what I tell 00:54:45.849 --> 00:54:50.117 you if I had a chance to tell you. And there was a lot of concern at the 00:54:50.150 --> 00:54:52.706 time about 00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:59.606 micromanaging on the part of the region's what was going on. And 00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:04.747 so I told him about that among some other things. And I think I got my 00:55:04.780 --> 00:55:11.206 message over because when the luncheon was over, the faculty applauded and 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:17.256 the region's didn't. So I 00:55:17.289 --> 00:55:22.006 thought, I thought it worked well. 00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:28.807 Did you ever go down to the legislator legislator? 00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:31.407 I was convinced 00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:33.606 that 00:55:33.639 --> 00:55:37.816 the three university press, the little I saw while I was visiting the 00:55:37.849 --> 00:55:43.836 regions for two years that, that the university administration was not 00:55:43.869 --> 00:55:48.907 representing as well in the legislature. 00:55:48.940 --> 00:55:55.836 I had the benefit when I was president 00:55:55.869 --> 00:55:59.706 Russ nelson was just going off 00:55:59.739 --> 00:56:07.739 and president ladic or had been appointed in june to be the president. But 00:56:08.260 --> 00:56:11.847 he couldn't come in until the middle of the year at the beginning of 00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:18.456 spring semester. And Dick peck, who had been on board for a year as the 00:56:18.489 --> 00:56:25.296 region's was as a progress, was assigned as The president for that six 00:56:25.329 --> 00:56:30.706 months. Dick pecs, the only guy I've ever known in my life that I could 00:56:30.739 --> 00:56:35.157 have disagreements with enjoy every minute, that he was just just a great 00:56:35.190 --> 00:56:42.296 guy to work with a fun humor. He had a lot of loyalty to the institution 00:56:42.329 --> 00:56:45.296 and 00:56:45.329 --> 00:56:48.376 we worked worked well, 00:56:48.409 --> 00:56:55.896 Russ nelson turned down almost everything that the, the Senate proposed. 00:56:55.929 --> 00:57:03.929 And so I'm getting up to your question. And 00:57:04.630 --> 00:57:10.236 so by the time Christine and I were doing faculty were saying why in the 00:57:10.269 --> 00:57:14.506 world should we be wasting our time being on the Senate that no matter 00:57:14.539 --> 00:57:19.137 what we proposed nothing that wouldn't get anything done. So Christine and 00:57:19.170 --> 00:57:23.066 I went to Dick pic while he was still progressing and said, what do you do 00:57:23.099 --> 00:57:27.907 about this? He said, well, the president usually makes his decisions based 00:57:27.940 --> 00:57:32.807 upon what his staff recommends to him. So I said, if he turns down 00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:37.396 something, why don't you go check with them and see what you can do? So 00:57:37.429 --> 00:57:40.577 that's the way we handled it and we massaged it and then we run it through 00:57:40.610 --> 00:57:44.497 again and we got a lot of that stuff past well when I took over as 00:57:44.530 --> 00:57:50.206 president and peck was just taken over to be the the president for that 00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:55.077 six months. I said, let's take this a step further. How about if we 00:57:55.110 --> 00:58:01.336 propose something, we go to the staff before we bring it to you? He said 00:58:01.369 --> 00:58:08.017 that sounds like a good idea. So I told that the executive committee, each 00:58:08.050 --> 00:58:13.097 member was in charge of some committee for the for the Senate. So we all 00:58:13.130 --> 00:58:18.916 agreed that we we do that sort of thing the way it worked out. But they go 00:58:18.949 --> 00:58:22.166 they go to a staff person 00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:26.756 and most of the time the staff person and say, well, we didn't know about 00:58:26.789 --> 00:58:31.677 that, we can fix it. Or they say if if you want the president to prove it 00:58:31.710 --> 00:58:36.186 , you better state it this way 00:58:36.219 --> 00:58:40.867 we propose, presented hardly anything to the president for for that year. 00:58:40.900 --> 00:58:47.046 It was all done by the staff. We got it done. The faculty on the Senate. 00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:50.856 We're pleased that you know what, what they wanted to do was was getting 00:58:50.889 --> 00:58:57.747 done. And when I retired larry Penley, they had a luncheon for the retired 00:58:57.780 --> 00:59:05.456 faculty. Larry Penley. Yeah, recognized that what I did when I was on the 00:59:05.489 --> 00:59:10.626 Senate was to improve communication between the faculty and then I really 00:59:10.659 --> 00:59:14.816 was pleased about that. And it made life just so simple for me and I'm 00:59:14.849 --> 00:59:21.376 gonna do something and we just get it done now. Legislature 00:59:21.409 --> 00:59:27.157 during that period of time. I got convinced that administration was really 00:59:27.190 --> 00:59:32.086 not. This may not be fair to them, but that's the way I saw it. 00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:38.427 So I went to laddie Cora and I said this is what I propose. I know we 00:59:38.460 --> 00:59:44.316 can't lobby as state employees but we could probably work something out 00:59:44.349 --> 00:59:47.876 that we could make our presence known and what we're doing and we weren't 00:59:47.909 --> 00:59:55.586 getting any money that's school was school weren't getting any money, the 00:59:55.619 --> 01:00:02.456 faculty and staff weren't getting any pay increases and suddenly he said 01:00:02.489 --> 01:00:08.066 yeah go ahead with it. Suddenly I had a staff lady from Brent Brown's 01:00:08.099 --> 01:00:12.657 office when then 01:00:12.690 --> 01:00:18.276 public relations or whatever it was and 01:00:18.309 --> 01:00:22.956 People from around there were six of us around campus including Alan 01:00:22.989 --> 01:00:28.456 Matheson who was one of the most respected people I know on campus and we 01:00:28.489 --> 01:00:32.796 were on the on the committee and we were getting this support from the 01:00:32.829 --> 01:00:37.546 administration and so on. All I did was propose an idea and it was all put 01:00:37.579 --> 01:00:42.477 in place for me. I found out about six months later that when ladic or was 01:00:42.510 --> 01:00:46.626 president of University of Vermont he created that same sort of group, he 01:00:46.659 --> 01:00:51.606 was just waiting to sign somebody and I came up and and offered my 01:00:51.639 --> 01:00:59.639 services and the way we work that was that I guess we stayed within the 01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:06.066 bounds of legal legal bounds, but they made appointments for me to have 01:01:06.099 --> 01:01:13.296 lunch with some of the legislators and where I think the administration 01:01:13.329 --> 01:01:17.977 has to be pretty careful about their their politics working with the 01:01:18.010 --> 01:01:22.356 legislature's I I told these legislation, how come you're beating up on us 01:01:22.389 --> 01:01:29.376 ? What are you talking about? Don dots told me one time about the director 01:01:29.409 --> 01:01:32.666 of the alumni association, he said he was talking to one of the 01:01:32.699 --> 01:01:37.106 legislators and I'm not going to give the A. S. You any money because 01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:42.577 they're running around here with Cadillacs and Mercedes 01:01:42.610 --> 01:01:48.606 cars with a S. You license on them and these, these vanity plates that you 01:01:48.639 --> 01:01:53.396 buy. Well, he was on the legislature that voted that to be legal in the 01:01:53.429 --> 01:01:57.776 first place. That legislation didn't even know what he'd voted for. So 01:01:57.809 --> 01:02:03.836 those kinds of things we could kind of correct right, getting back to what 01:02:03.869 --> 01:02:08.066 is important within your department, 01:02:08.099 --> 01:02:14.566 some of your faculty members as well as the leaders of the department. 01:02:14.599 --> 01:02:18.166 What outstanding 01:02:18.199 --> 01:02:24.066 activities? That really changed 01:02:24.099 --> 01:02:27.566 thinking within the department 01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:31.637 philosophy and so forth. Well, what really happened, I mentioned keith 01:02:31.670 --> 01:02:37.927 Davis who was an attraction to recruiting a lot of faculty and several 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:45.876 faculty early. How fair on the chairman was involved with nationally with 01:02:45.909 --> 01:02:52.977 the purchasing association and I never fully appreciated first. What what 01:02:53.010 --> 01:02:56.876 sort of a big deal that was, but I guess you're purchasing billions of 01:02:56.909 --> 01:02:59.947 dollars of stuff. It's good to know if you're doing it correctly correctly 01:02:59.980 --> 01:03:07.217 , but he was, he was a leader in that group. He was the first editor of 01:03:07.250 --> 01:03:10.066 their 01:03:10.099 --> 01:03:16.146 journal and I was pleased to get a couple of my articles in that overtime. 01:03:16.179 --> 01:03:24.179 And eventually after these 14 years that he was the chairman ah 01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:32.427 and Bill Reiff, who has been in our department, was acting dean while they 01:03:32.460 --> 01:03:37.517 were going through a dean search and they worked out a deal that they form 01:03:37.550 --> 01:03:45.550 another department which was purchasing transportation and operations. And 01:03:48.199 --> 01:03:52.637 so there was a spit off and how moved from being chairman of the 01:03:52.670 --> 01:03:58.057 management department or the and this, this had a national impact and they 01:03:58.090 --> 01:04:03.856 moved down to the industrial park, one of the, perhaps of the first 01:04:03.889 --> 01:04:11.836 occupant down there and that is eventually morphed into a national 01:04:11.869 --> 01:04:16.927 movement about the 01:04:16.960 --> 01:04:22.066 playing change management. And so that's that's that's a that's that's a 01:04:22.099 --> 01:04:26.756 big deal, it's a it's a big focus on in business now. So yeah, that that 01:04:26.789 --> 01:04:34.789 was a major thing. I I got to the College of Business magazine a couple of 01:04:36.539 --> 01:04:44.539 years ago and it listed one of the colleagues um who had gotten an award 01:04:44.989 --> 01:04:50.376 in the management department, he was there when I was there and I 01:04:50.409 --> 01:04:56.456 contacted him, I complimented him for it and 01:04:56.489 --> 01:05:03.706 he said that the Department of Management now As recognized as one of the 01:05:03.739 --> 01:05:11.739 top 10 departments in the, in the in the world and universities for the 01:05:12.059 --> 01:05:15.856 quality and the quantity of its publications 01:05:15.889 --> 01:05:23.836 and that's come a long way from the time when I showed up and I was on the 01:05:23.869 --> 01:05:29.407 campus about two months and Hal Faron called me and he said, well if you 01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:33.367 want to stay around here, you better get something published every year. 01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:38.157 But it was kind of the whole home and it it didn't make any difference 01:05:38.190 --> 01:05:41.376 what it was in. But it you know, you get to get something that had the 01:05:41.409 --> 01:05:48.856 binding to it that you could do it. And by the time I retired, why it was 01:05:48.889 --> 01:05:56.776 mm hmm. New doctoral Canada people they had to publish already before we 01:05:56.809 --> 01:06:01.997 ever saw. So that was a so I I think that's part of the change to, you 01:06:02.030 --> 01:06:07.747 know, just the whole dynamics of what was going on. 01:06:07.780 --> 01:06:15.780 It appears that in many areas the advanced degree doctorate in this case, 01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:18.546 the 01:06:18.579 --> 01:06:21.347 manner in which 01:06:21.380 --> 01:06:27.046 they do various types of activities certainly have changed. 01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:33.546 Yeah. It was important that I get out in the business community and 01:06:33.579 --> 01:06:37.247 and a little sarcastic on my part. But I said we used to need to know 01:06:37.280 --> 01:06:41.896 about business now. We need to know about statistics. But the fortunate 01:06:41.929 --> 01:06:46.756 thing is there was a survey not long after I retired by one of the faculty 01:06:46.789 --> 01:06:51.727 members that correlated the teaching evaluations with the quality of 01:06:51.760 --> 01:06:56.486 publications. And there was a hype high correlation. They weren't giving 01:06:56.519 --> 01:07:00.637 up the quality of teaching for the quality of the publications, good 01:07:00.670 --> 01:07:05.747 people were good people. Mhm. 01:07:05.780 --> 01:07:10.166 You know, we've talked about many, many things here of interest to all of 01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:16.686 us certainly. But are there any other points that you can recall that we 01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:21.046 would like to know about? 01:07:21.079 --> 01:07:26.247 Well one of the things you have nothing to do with 01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:29.787 with what we've been talking about it. It's got everything to do with me. 01:07:29.820 --> 01:07:34.706 And I brought this thing up. 01:07:34.739 --> 01:07:42.739 This is the Catherine Gammage Stories, it was magic bye sally y mm. Okay 01:07:43.780 --> 01:07:51.780 stuff. I Catherine Damage was the second wife and widow of Grady Gammage 01:07:51.780 --> 01:07:54.247 and 01:07:54.280 --> 01:08:00.577 I had never met her but I told I was told about how loyal she was, how 01:08:00.610 --> 01:08:08.610 active she was. He was on the payroll at ASU how 01:08:08.829 --> 01:08:13.887 enthusiastic she was about everything. I never met her about the time I 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:18.506 was getting ready to retire. I was at three different social gatherings 01:08:18.539 --> 01:08:23.107 and each time she asked me to invite her out to lunch. Well the first time 01:08:23.140 --> 01:08:28.237 I thought she was just being polite about this thing 01:08:28.270 --> 01:08:33.517 and and about a third time I said I'd better take it seriously. She was 01:08:33.550 --> 01:08:39.427 living at an apartment in Friendship Village retirement community. So I 01:08:39.460 --> 01:08:44.137 went to pick her up and this sally y and that's her legal name, she want 01:08:44.170 --> 01:08:48.737 to make sure I understood that about her. 01:08:48.770 --> 01:08:52.217 Gonna find my quote here. 01:08:52.250 --> 01:09:00.250 They had a she wrote this book and Catherine Gammage and she 01:09:01.270 --> 01:09:07.076 we're at a book signing in the Memorial the Union and I was invited to go 01:09:07.109 --> 01:09:11.137 to that. I had this book 01:09:11.170 --> 01:09:14.336 and 01:09:14.369 --> 01:09:20.817 sally showed me one particular page and I won't read the whole thing. But 01:09:20.850 --> 01:09:23.437 this is a quote 01:09:23.470 --> 01:09:28.836 big print entitled the mystery man. 01:09:28.869 --> 01:09:31.536 Um 01:09:31.569 --> 01:09:36.746 friday lunch date. I have a date with a mystery man. Maybe I made it up. 01:09:36.779 --> 01:09:42.076 I've done it before. Maybe they forgot they made a date with me. Oh he's 01:09:42.109 --> 01:09:48.746 here, my mystery man. I'll say it's good to see you. I've been looking 01:09:48.779 --> 01:09:54.187 forward to this whole week. And that sounded like the Catherine damage 01:09:54.220 --> 01:10:02.220 that I'd heard about. Sally told me at that point, she said when 01:10:02.859 --> 01:10:08.206 Catherine Gammage was looking forward to waiting for me to come, she said 01:10:08.239 --> 01:10:11.626 I got a lunch date with somebody. I don't know who it is, but it must be a 01:10:11.659 --> 01:10:16.927 man because I got a headache. Yeah. 01:10:16.960 --> 01:10:24.027 And we had a delightful lunch, but she was at a point 01:10:24.060 --> 01:10:28.876 she appreciates this. We both lost our wives through Alzheimer's disease 01:10:28.909 --> 01:10:34.987 and canned and this was before then. But Catherine at the over lunch, just 01:10:35.020 --> 01:10:41.107 so enthusiastic telling me about her grandchildren several times and each 01:10:41.140 --> 01:10:46.796 time she did with the same enthusiasm just had to deliver. She was one of 01:10:46.829 --> 01:10:53.517 those individuals at friendship village that everybody I really love. 01:10:53.550 --> 01:10:57.067 I'm trying to think of some of the things that you and I were involved 01:10:57.100 --> 01:11:03.046 with and so forth. Oh you you got condemned to a deal when I was president 01:11:03.079 --> 01:11:11.079 of the retirees association has said to Zeke, will you be the the vice 01:11:11.460 --> 01:11:15.126 president? He said, yeah, he didn't know until the end of the year that 01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:19.227 meant he was going to be president the next year. 01:11:19.260 --> 01:11:25.076 Yeah. He did a good, good, good job. Oh, what, what Yeah, I think I could 01:11:25.109 --> 01:11:30.137 add and this is a very personal kind of thing. But I was reflecting on 01:11:30.170 --> 01:11:34.116 this and this is a big deal for me to be here today. But I was reflecting 01:11:34.149 --> 01:11:36.326 on this 01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:41.586 and as I was thinking through the experiences I had, how many people came 01:11:41.619 --> 01:11:47.987 to mind that have already been interviewed by you folks. And I really feel 01:11:48.020 --> 01:11:52.006 fortunate that I've known the kind of people that are considered to be the 01:11:52.039 --> 01:11:59.927 movers and shakers of this institution. Yeah. This is great. Thank you. 01:11:59.960 --> 01:12:05.876 Thank you for the time. Yeah. Friend. 01:12:05.909 --> 01:12:13.909 Everything. That's very good that I had this opportunity. 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:21.217 Oh well, well I give credit to more people on that sort of thing. I was 01:12:21.250 --> 01:12:26.217 president of the Senate at the time 01:12:26.250 --> 01:12:32.857 and as you'd expect a lot. He was just just great to work with and he 01:12:32.890 --> 01:12:37.286 asked that I share the inauguration. I don't know beans about what, what 01:12:37.319 --> 01:12:40.017 do you do with an inauguration 01:12:40.050 --> 01:12:48.050 And I was assigned an bergen in the President's office to assist me and 01:12:48.500 --> 01:12:52.387 it's just beautiful. You know, she's, she's been in the president's office. 01:12:52.420 --> 01:12:57.067 She knows what's going on. She knows where everybody is. You go to the 01:12:57.100 --> 01:13:00.296 universe. You want to have a party in university, you've got food, you've 01:13:00.329 --> 01:13:05.397 got room, you've got bands, you've got all this stuff and she'd call up 01:13:05.430 --> 01:13:09.416 and she said this and Bergen is from the President's Office, nobody ever 01:13:09.449 --> 01:13:14.626 said no, you know, you had it all and we had a few false starts to get 01:13:14.659 --> 01:13:17.817 that thing going and 01:13:17.850 --> 01:13:24.397 eventually put it together and it was three days something going on every 01:13:24.430 --> 01:13:26.616 day. 01:13:26.649 --> 01:13:29.416 The 01:13:29.449 --> 01:13:35.116 director of the Symphony Orchestra, 01:13:35.149 --> 01:13:38.017 what is his name? 01:13:38.050 --> 01:13:46.050 Strange? No, after him straight um 01:13:46.250 --> 01:13:52.166 Henry smith and there was another name. He came up with the idea that 01:13:52.199 --> 01:14:00.199 laddie core ought to, he was going to do the piece of the ah the 01:14:01.390 --> 01:14:09.147 Children's Symphony and it had a speaking part to it. I said, I think it's 01:14:09.180 --> 01:14:14.906 a good idea of glad he would do that part. 01:14:14.939 --> 01:14:21.206 Yeah, it was the same time that there was the dedication to the 01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:25.706 golf course and they hadn't had a building yet, but they had a big tent up 01:14:25.739 --> 01:14:30.437 and had all the dignitaries there. I got invited, all kinds of things that 01:14:30.470 --> 01:14:33.887 I would, I never did before, didn't after, but it was, it was fun to do it 01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:40.616 for a year or two. And so I saw a convenient time to guards. See laddie, I 01:14:40.649 --> 01:14:46.376 said this has been been proposed by the director before. I could, he could 01:14:46.409 --> 01:14:51.597 say anything, his mother was there and she had, oh, he'd be good at that. 01:14:51.630 --> 01:14:56.067 You've got a lot of mothers like that, right? I'm glad he did it. And 01:14:56.100 --> 01:14:59.427 everybody recognized he's a bright guy. But he went over and he went 01:14:59.460 --> 01:15:04.336 through it one time. That was that was all that either do it and I was 01:15:04.369 --> 01:15:09.956 there and it was just a flawless kind of thing. 01:15:09.989 --> 01:15:16.607 That was that damage. And another big part for me on that is is 01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:21.677 my wife lucy was contacted to be the representative of Idaho State 01:15:21.710 --> 01:15:28.017 University that so we could process together, you know, different places 01:15:28.050 --> 01:15:33.406 in the deal Lincoln Ragsdale who was 01:15:33.439 --> 01:15:41.439 big time businessman in phoenix um war hero during the Second World War. I 01:15:43.039 --> 01:15:48.637 had his son in a classic good guy, good guy. Anyway, Lincoln Ragsdale want 01:15:48.670 --> 01:15:52.446 to have his picture taken with my wife and that's in our album. That those 01:15:52.479 --> 01:15:57.036 those little, those little things that you go through life on campus that 01:15:57.069 --> 01:16:05.069 make it fun. Mhm. So the inauguration was a big deal. We had the speaker 01:16:05.770 --> 01:16:08.597 of the, 01:16:08.630 --> 01:16:12.897 for the alumni association, 01:16:12.930 --> 01:16:15.406 the student 01:16:15.439 --> 01:16:17.996 body president 01:16:18.029 --> 01:16:26.029 ah Edith all slander the the regions. And I spoke 01:16:27.029 --> 01:16:34.296 and Rose Mofford has the governor spoke. She finished her talk with, 01:16:34.329 --> 01:16:41.616 because laddie was an Arizona native, grew up in Western part of the 01:16:41.649 --> 01:16:49.649 valley, graduated from N A. U. So Rose finished up with welcome home son. 01:16:50.930 --> 01:16:52.930 And afterwards, one of the secretaries told me that one of the other 01:16:55.420 --> 01:17:01.289 secretaries would say. I didn't know Rose Mofford was Lanny cora's mother. 01:17:05.130 --> 01:17:07.130 So this has been a fun place for me. Okay. That's wonderful. Okay, well I 01:17:12.029 --> 01:17:17.897 believe that then closes the interview. At this point 01:17:17.930 --> 01:17:24.687 I'm going to have happy hour with an this afternoon and good good. I'm 01:17:24.720 --> 01:17:28.967 about due to call her up for lunch too. So we've got one more thing we'd 01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:34.116 like to get on a cliff. You usually get it to start and that's where you 01:17:34.149 --> 01:17:42.149 introduce yourself. My name is. How White Professor of Management 01:17:43.920 --> 01:17:50.656 Business From 1966. Something something short. We use it in our annual 01:17:50.689 --> 01:17:57.067 meeting people we had just interviewed. Sure, okay, whenever you're ready 01:17:57.100 --> 01:18:05.100 , uh I'm Harold White. My friends call me hal I'm professor of management 01:18:05.560 --> 01:18:10.557 in the College of Business now the W. P. Carey School of Business. I 01:18:10.590 --> 01:18:15.460 joined the faculty in 1966, retiredin