It is Tuesday 17 September 2002 and I'm pam Stevenson and we're here at
ASU doing an interview for the issue retirees association living history
video project and um today um our interviewees is Bill, why don't you give
me your full name? And so you can pronounce it correctly? Oh that's just
right, that's right. You did a very good job. Okay and what is your full
name? William? Mm
that the japanese name. And when I was baptized back in about 24 then I
selected William.
When were you born? 019 12 September six. And where were you going? I was
born in Oxnard California. That's in ventura County in California near the
ocean. Why don't you tell me a little bit about, did you grow up there and
tell me about your parents know shortly thereafter why? My father passed
away then we were we moved to Los Angeles. So we were in Los Angeles until
we moved to Arizona in 19 and 29 When the state was only 17 years old. I
think the state became a state 1912.
Yeah. Mhm.
Put a sign on the door. Oh okay.
When? Okay. Um
Well tell me a little about your family, what did they do for a living?
What brought them to Arizona? Well for really? But they were from japan
and my father I think worked in the sugar beets on Oxnard California was
known for sugar beets and let's see what else, There are just a couple of
crops but now I think there quite an agricultural
center as well as many other things because they're right next to the
ocean I think Oxnard, I've been there for years. So you actually, your
boyhood was in Los Angeles. Yes, I was there until it was time to come to
high school and that's 29 was around depression. There were many people
that were probably moving around try to improve their livelihood or
situation for employment and things of that nature. And my parents were
barbers,
so they had a shop in Los Angeles and when we came here, why my mother and
father started, my stepfather then started barbershop and that's uh when I
started high school that was in, when we moved here in the middle of the
summer
and then I had a part time job in a grocery store where I was almost like
the modern day carry out.
So we were in the city and there were quite a few japanese families, but
they were mostly on the west side such as west phoenix or Tillerson peoria
in that area of farming and most of them farmed quite an acreage
and that was mostly there work
And I attended Phoenix Union when finished Union was about 4000, which was
quite large that we claim to be probably the largest, the worst of the
Mississippi of course during that period, probably most of the cities were
quite small no matter where you went and phoenix was, I would guess about
, I don't know maybe 50 or smaller but a large area.
And during that period, of course, most of the city, I don't think any
city in the valley here that had more than one high school. They were all
like Tempe high had one and Mesa had one Peoria had one and so forth. So
it wasn't until later, probably
close to the wartime, probably when the city were starting to grow and it
really grow after the war. As you can recall. What did you think of
phoenix when you first moved here? Well, I'll tell you the truth, there
was no way for us to evaluate. We were in Los Angeles that was quite large.
But compared to today's standards were, it was quite small also. And I
think Los Angeles started over there by the little spanish village that
they have all the, is that it? And, and group and people there no matter
where they live, they always went Quote downtown and downtown was about
seven and broadway and that's where all the stores were movie houses and
everything else. And if you lived away from there, we always caught the uh
, streetcar and came in. It's odd that the streetcar was quite common.
They eliminated them. We did that here and now they're talking about
putting it back. So we've come clear around the cycle. So when your family
moved to phoenix, where did they live? They lived like on my, on north
street, it's, it's near where the baseball probably complex is located in
that general area. So there were quite a few chinese restaurants there in
barbershops and some grocery stores and so forth. They didn't, we didn't
have very many places like safeways and such. They may have had some
smaller ones, but not very many.
So I can I recall when I was working during the summer and that was in the
summer before I started high school that the indians and mostly indians
would come with the buckboard loaded with mesquite and other kinds of wood
to sell and then they would have a little money and they came to the
grocery store and then bought their groceries such as sacks of flour sacks
of rice sacks of this and that. And it was my assignment to go into the,
the stacks are flower I guess and then bring it out and that was a carry
out boy.
So that was about it. And then soon the summer was over. Then school
started and I started school at finished union. And there were very few
japanese students there because as I mentioned they were farmers and they
would be attending Tillerson high or Glendale high School peoria.
And I don't think there were very many other to Allison schools other than
those in the early days
I have a question. So you were one of the few japanese that, well one of
the few, there must have been just two or three
and then of course, uh I didn't know much about sports program but I
thought I would like to play and as I recall that we had a fence around
the practice field and I was outside, I didn't know anyone because these
other boys, most of them went to the elementary schools around phoenix
union and they knew each other as a friend or opponents from the other
school. You see they're all buddies, so to speak.
So I wasn't much of a ford individuals. So I said to myself, well there's
so many boys, it appeared that the field was just covered with players
because you have 4000 and half of them would be male trying to play
football. So I just went home. However, I was in the P. E. Class
in the P. E. Class. My class was taught by third team, we had first team,
second team, third team in intramurals
and this coach Uh and teacher was the coach for the 3rd team. Now we would
play flag football and they would give me the ball. This big ruffians
would go and knock them down, then I would run.
So the coach said, well why don't you go out for football? I told him that
I didn't have any friends that I thought I would go out next year. He said
no monday you go and check out a uniform and go out and report to coach
mccomb, MS coach mccomb was a second team coach. So on monday I I went to
check out and naturally I was sort of small and, and it didn't weigh very
much and the uniforms were quite large and they were long here and short
here mostly long and they didn't have any shoes. I think I wore around six
and I were about nine now, Size six and they're all too large for me.
In another situation where they would probably go out and buy one
immediately, but they didn't do that. So they gave me some tinny shoes. In
fact, that's what they did when I came here. I was still small when I came
here
then, let's see that was about monday and Tuesday now that the second team
, he usually played on Fridays, I think it was in the third team will play
thursday and the varsity would play friday.
So I recall now we went to buckeye to play and they took me along so I got
to play a little bit and then we came home and that that's how I got
started was on a second team and I was with the second team all my
freshman year.
Well, I can stop there because if you want my sports, I can continue on
that. Well, I think we need your sports isn't that, you know, kind of how
you got started. Well, okay, next year coach Robinson, that was the coach
and we only had one coach For team, the second team coach and 3rd team
coach. Now, I, I don't know how many they have, even in high school, it's
all specialized but we didn't have to platoon you. So you, so one coach
could probably handle it. Okay. He formed a big circle and then he came
into the circle and then he said, now all of you were on the first team,
on the varsity team. Come over here, see, so the rest of us are still
sitting there and then he would walk around slowly and then he was a tall
fellow with long fingers and and uh
long arms you see, and then he would go you over there, you over there. So
I was selected as a sophomore and I think I was the only sophomore on the
team.
So that was sort of the story. And that year we probably had one of the
best teams that the school has ever had. Mhm And we won most of our games.
And usually after season we would play someone from another state, such
as Colorado. Champions of Colorado would come in and champion of uh, Utah
would come in and people like that on our schedule, We always played the
freshman team from Arizona and from N A. U. I don't think they were strong
enough and we didn't play uh Tempe teachers.
And then on the schedule, not in one year, but most Each year we played 18
from like El Paso or last Cruises. Albuquerque San Diego santa Barbara
Long Beach uh and teams like that for competition that we were fairly
strong enough. Then our big rivalry was like Tucson because the city was
fairly good size, only one high school and Mesa was another one. Those
three were probably the strong teams. However, we did play like Yuma and
Glendale, that's about it off and on. What position were you playing? Well
? I played in a single wing, so I was a tailback.
Now that's equivalent to, I'm not really quarterbacks because he passed
and some of the good ones past and punted and ran with the ball. They
called him a triple trap
now that I played the tail back and now they still call them running back
, I guess that's what they call them today, but we didn't have a
quarterback under the center, you see, that was, we had a person that was
pretty close to that, but it always shifted out. That's what they called
the T formation now you see, but they didn't stay there. There was here
here here and they shifted and this one became the blocky blocking back
and the wingback was also blocking back. So that was your sophomore year
in high school. How did, how did your junior and senior years ago? Senior
junior and senior year went a little better because the tail bag was very
much of a top player. He was a triple threat. He used to pass and punt and
run and I think when he graduated he went to Notre dame. So that shows
that we had a pretty good team and we played san Diego and they had
Warburton who went to sc and became all american
and then uh, so we used to have a pretty good team for a long, long time
until more schools build up And at one time I think Phoenix had close to
10 high school. So of course if we only had one high school, the strength
would still be there. But when you divide the people up, Talent up in 10
schools or eight schools or whatever. Incidentally in Tempe We have six
high schools now. That's quite a few for us. It's really a small school
and I mean the area compared to Mesa, I think they have three or 4 now and
the coming area I think would be like Gilbert, you know, they have big
farms there and they're just spreading out. I think they have three or
four high schools already and I don't things within a few years, they'll
probably have, I mean 3, 4 more easy. Yeah, A lot different from what was
back then. Yes. So that just gives a little background. So what year did
you graduate from Phoenix Union Phoenix? 33,
I went there from 29 to 33.
What about, were you a good student other than the sports? Well I wasn't
that good a student. I don't think well we I think that so of course we're
like algebra and geometry and things like that. You could memorize my
homeroom teacher was a math teacher and she mentioned to me no way you can
learn all these plays and all the positions and you should do better in
algebra. I can remember telling me but her homeroom was men the boys, she
liked the boys and the sports you know. So that's the reason why I was in
her home room and that's why she knew you were memorizing all this other
stuff. Right? Why can't you memorize these theorems when you can remember
all these plays? Boy? She had something there.
So what did you plan to do when you got out of high school? Well I'll have
to give you a little story on that. That's that's the part of the
beginning of my thesis there. Okay. There were very few jobs for anyone.
Remember there's a
hard times remember people were jumping out of windows and banks were
being closed
so the hard time and teaching was a good field because they still needed
teachers
especially around here in the mining towns you see And
I shouldn't quote the price but they weren't paying very much. But that
was relative. Also a dollar. Could you could buy quite a bit more than you
can today.
You didn't you didn't want to become a barber. Like your family. Well they
suggested that you see but I didn't pursue it. Ah They sent me to
Barbara's school and I was ready for for that. But then by then I was
interested in sports probably. So I just stayed with it.
So when I graduated I had a couple of good friends, one in particular paul
Guthrie was his name and we were and that's part of my start coming here.
We were on I think about 2nd street in Washington and I remember there was
a crest right on the corner and that's when indian ladies used to come
with a blanket and all the goodies and sit right there to sell. Can you
imagine that? That's a long time ago. Well we were standing there then a
car without the top and two persons we didn't know who they were, they
pulled up alongside and that was Vern Tuckey and tuffy griffin, the
student body president and the captain of the football team they drove up
and started to visit. Of course I think they knew that we played for
phoenix and we usually have some pretty good teams. So eventually they
said how would you like to go to school and play football and get an
education?
Well we didn't know what we want to do. What kind of a job you see because
all the jobs for just about out weren't hiring any to do anything other
than probably in the farm.
So they said we'll jump in and we'll take you to the campus. That that's
how it started. And they drove us down to College Avenue and right in
front of old main
it was a gate. They used to have steel gates because they didn't want
people to be running around that didn't belong on the campus you see
especially for the ladies. So they came right up and I remember coming up
almost to the point of oh mein and there was a flagpole. I could still see
that. Well then there was an entrance we entered and it lowered a little
bit and that was not really a seller but it was a lower floor at that time
I think in old Main they talked probably most of the courses there there
were a few other buildings but that one held the most.
So we went down and then we met Mr Southern. His name is on there and he
was an english professor. And also he was a faculty representative for the
athletics
so we thought they thought he was a very important person to meet. So
we're both down and we shook hands and so forth. And then Mr Southern
recall I can hear him say this aren't you kind of small and you might
aren't you afraid you get hurt? So I guess all I could say was I'm gonna
take my chances you see so that was about it and during that period I
think I was
I weighed about 242
43, something like that. When I started I was In high school I was about
130
5 36 not very big, but I thought now my legs are not very good. But I had
boasting, I had pretty good legs, the strength you see and I didn't have
much on the upper part but my legs used to take me. I wasn't that fast
either, but boasting again, I was pretty quick so I got this and I could
give you more ah
points to to point out that wasn't that fast, I just give it to you
quickly in high school then I was pretty fast. So the boys said they were
going to run the 100 yard dash. So they put out all the fast boys in there
And I lead for about 50, 60 yards you see and pretty soon almost everyone.
So I probably ended up 5th, 6th or 7th or something like that. So that
proved to me that I wasn't very fast for any distance, but I was fairly
quick at a short distance giving it this, that's how I got by.
So okay, now as far as buildings and I think I have a note there, it must
have been about a half a dozen buildings, but there were more dormitories
and I think dormitories because they would cater the school cater to the
ladies you see and they want to protect them and you probably heard this
that I think During the week they had to be in by I think it was 9:00
PMclock
and then a child's had a house mother you see. And some of us boys would
go and uh huh to the guest room such as this and then visit with the young
ladies and about nine o'clock one she'll come and said boys, you know it's
nine o'clock and off we went.
It's quite different today.
I don't think so. In fact I think I was the only one lived in a dormitory
even in high school. I think there was just a few
but I think I was the first to play sports. I played football and
basketball and baseball
and I played uh tracked because that went on at the same time as baseball.
However, we had this outstanding player that between innings he would go
and high jump you see in the window, high jump and it would still be
playing baseball at the same time.
Pretty resourceful. His name is flipping and if you look back in the
records while he's one of the greatest and that was his backup. So you can
see I didn't get to play very much that one year. What was football your
major sports? Well, yes, in a way it was. What were the uniforms like that
? Well let's see where shall we go high school even in college I think
mostly uniformed come to the shirt, the jersey was all wool, you know, and
long sleeve, they're all short sleeve now because at the time they were
rolling it up and someone, we're cutting them, they didn't want them, then
they would fall and get all skin.
But anyway, they were all wall at one time and they had numbers in the
back, but it wasn't required to have in the front.
So in the front they had kind of ribbing like things, I don't know how to
explain it. It was sewn on there, kind of V. And then they had some on the
arms right here, that was mostly for the boys that carried the ball. You
see that would kind of hold the ball a little better. So you had it here
here and here we have a lot of padding like they do now. Well, I don't
think the equipment was as good. Like the shoulder pads, they were just
almost a couple of pieces of leather and now they have a lot of shock
absorbent techniques in their helmets. The old helmets were just leather.
I think it's almost like those flyers were just a piece of leather with a
little padding
and let's see what else. And pants, there were one piece then it became
two pieces where the pants and then they had hit pads were separate, you
can put them on and you put your pants on top
and I guess they had the thigh pads that used to slip in there and I think
they still have that the shoes shoes were high top, they didn't have the
low top, high top and there were leather cleats, they were kind of
rectangle and there were large at the top and then came down not to a
point but came down and there were layers of leather like this and they
were just nailed onto the soul
and then then they became later on became this plastic kind you just screw
and now they were most anything and and they probably have, I don't know
several pairs of different like wet field grass field and artificial and
so the equipment probably have to outfit each individual with several
pairs of shoes.
So you came to to A. S. U. Was it primarily because he wanted to play
football or did you come here to become a teacher? Well I don't think the
thought of teaching came to our mind our mind at least because there were
very few teachers in elements school men at least they didn't even
principals I think they were all women. Now men are in there. They broke
the line.
So it wasn't until towards the end when uh Teachers had a pretty good job.
They didn't make a whole lot. Remember some of the girls were making $800
the school year.
You know you make a lot more in a week I think. But you see for each
dollar you could buy a lot more
like in 30
not 33 In the early 30s you can buy the top chevy And of course they only
had two colors I think black and maroon I think at that time you didn't,
you couldn't get red or whatever.
And this one had to wire wheels and four wire wheels and two in a well in
the trunk and that was 600 and $35 or something like that. That's the best
they made.
You can hardly buy a set of tires for that today.
Yeah. Well, so what I'm a little confused of why um, the Arizona State
Teachers College even had a football team if it was mostly women. Well, I
think they had some, but then we didn't have it so accelerated yet and
most of the boys just came, I just came to school. Some came to play
football probably. But we didn't have a big schedule. We didn't travel
hardly any place if we did. We were in a I usually use verses
the seats were like these bus lines would turn them in, you see. And the
and the seats and then the backs were all the springs will be showing. And
another thing is we had a, I can't think of the name right now, but right
over here on university and mail just on this side was a garage
and he was a good mechanic. He used to take care of our cars, busses and
then for a while he drove because when it broke down then he could fix it
en route
and when we went to Flagstaff to play, we had to take aren't Yarnell Hill
? You know you know that okay going up the hill, I'll start to steam and
and then the coach would have the bus driver take it up a few miles. All
of us would get out and then we would walk or if it was flat we were on a
few plays and and then catch up with a bus and continue.
Yeah. Not quite like it is today. Huh? How long would it take you to get
from Flagstaff? It would take almost a full day. You see from there we
would go to what's that town on?
I used to know it's a famous road that goes across
as Ash Fork I think see from Prescott we will go straight and take ash for
cutting and turned and go to Flagstaff
because of Black Canyon. Yes, there was a Black canyon. It was real narrow
and bumpy you see. So we didn't take that wasn't even paved yet. Oh no, no
, no, no they're not. They're not married when they paved that. You know
from phoenix to flags that then flags that became a city I think because
you could run up there and you know what a couple of hours.
Tell me a little bit more of what a. S. U. Was like when you first came
here describe it for me a little more. Well let's see what kind of
description would you like. First of all they had uh iron fencing almost
all the way around. I don't know whether you heard, you know where
whether on old main street by university that was all wrought iron. You
see all the way around the campus and to enter oh mein from where we came
in that big gate and they would lock it up at night
and it was protected that way mostly for the ladies I think. How many
students were there here then let's see what did I have there? 800 and
something wasn't it? Something like that was in 33. Now
Now we have about what 50 1000 or something that's including the east and
west. Um Okay well tell me about the, who was the president when you came
here. Okay. I think I started to tell you about that. They had some
changes made and it just happened that when I came to school in 33 we had
the new president dr Gammage and new athletic director and he coached
football, basketball and and where was it track I think. No, he didn't
call coach baseball. He had tracked but he was a real gentleman and
scholar and he had all the preparations of physical education because he
went to school back east midwest where he was really trained
the very astute a good speaker and a gentleman and a scholar and always
remain within the rules of whatever it was. He didn't deviate, what was
his name?
Rudy Leveque was his name but he became my mentor. So he looked after me
all the while and the president was very good from this standpoint that He
did two things. He looked after the students and I would say almost every
student had some part of a job and the school was run by students like
janitor and gardening and that sort of thing. I had I was a gardener's
helper and I helped um the plumbers had all kinds of jobs and we all did
this so you had part time jobs and full time jobs full time. We're a
little hard to come by Because the room and board I think you saw there
was 21:50.
That's pretty good isn't it? Then the registration fees and all that was
very very nominal you see and you could work that out. It was 2150 for
every month you see but if you have a full time job that would cover that.
So what kind of job did you have? Well I had to work, I'd work with the
gardeners, I work with the carpenters, I worked with the plumbers you see
you didn't always stay, you probably they needed some one to put some
threads on pipes. Have you ever done that? That's a slow process not to
have machines that do that, but this was hand and he may work all day,
just maybe a couple of inches thread. Yeah. And it used to be, it's called
Lyceum now it's on the campus, it was right over there at that end and I
think he realizes tunnels all around under the campus there you see and
you could walk, walk in their, in their pipes and all kinds of things
underneath that. Then they built a new one that was after I graduated, I
think on there that knew and we used to have the old heaters and
classrooms when he came in and some water came in. It would be popping and
popping like firecrackers going off
a lot different than it is today. Oh yes, got to have refrigeration today.
So tell me a little bit about, eventually I got down on here about the
dining hall dining hall. Let's see where dining hall would be. Just south
of romaine. It was maybe still there that it was run by. We called him on
park. Kraus. Kraus was the name of the couple and one, he was a chef and
he cooks and the wife, she took care of everything else. Usually she would
stand at one entrance and see that you were neatly dressed, not dressed up
but neat if you weren't, she'll send you back and no dinner, no lunch.
Okay in the dining hall then. Um, you had assigned seats, that's a teacher
, uh, table manners and how you would sit at home And I think there were
eight, 3, 3 and head and The bottom part, one was the father and one was
the mother is the and you always said pass the potatoes please. And she
would walk around, walk around and so you kind of tap you a little bit if
you're out of line. And when we had great food, we always scooped it out
with the, I still do that.
And
okay. The best, best job in the, in the dining hall was the head waiter
headwaiter. He was standing at the front would have a bell like the school
bell And everyone when they came in, they stood behind their chair. They
didn't come and sit down. I stood back there. Then then you had, you would
alternate boys and girls, boys and girls you see. So you, you always say
please pass the potatoes or whatever. Mm hmm. And fellows like to sit next
to the girls because the girls didn't eat as much and then they got the
little extras.
Okay. The head waiter was a prime job. He would be in front And no one sat
until he rang the bell and everyone sat down. All the waiters that brought
the food from the kitchen out. They had to wear a clean white shirt every
day, but they had it washed by the cafeteria there. That was a privilege.
So some of the boys like to save their shirts you know for the weekend
when they took their young ladies out. I want to have a white shirt. So
sometimes they were the same 12 days and that's where they'll get caught.
But Mrs Krauss
and that waiter probably didn't get his meal that day.
Another thing Mrs Cross did, she was in charge of of scholarship and jobs.
So some of the jobs I had was go to the library and sweep and dust the
books and you heard that and I did that And then we had a head janitor and
he would come and open the door at 5:30. We worked till 5 30 to 6 37
o'clock And the dining hall opened at 7:00.
So we worked and then we hurried to eat. So that was a ritual. And all the
buildings on the campus were done by mostly students and plumbing and not
not the fine work but rough work they did. And the gardening I happened to
be the gardener's helper and I worked around the yard I heard at the
dining hall you had to be on time. Couldn't be late. No no she'll be there
at the door and then when it's time to close while she's not there at the
door so you don't get it in get in. She was quite a lady and they finally
moved away to the coast. Forget the name of the town. But but I think they
passed away naturally by now. But what was the food like in the food was
fine food was fine. But the football players, they used to complain a lot
and I used to tell them now you shouldn't complain because you're not
paying anything for you. It's free. You have to be happy to just go eat.
So I didn't complain. I just ate because it was good food. And then we had
a farm right over there where Gammage Auditorium. That used to be the
college farm. We kept horses and cows and some of the feed and the garbage
that was left over at the dining hall. They would take it over there and
give it to the pigs you see. And then we will get the milk over there and
they would bring it back and make ice cream.
So is that a special treat when you got that special special?
Tell me a little bit more about the doctor Gammage. What was he like? Well
, I didn't say enough about him. Uh he was very, very good from the
standpoint of building any opportunity that he would build some buildings
on the campus you see. And the other thing which was not noticeable. But
very much of a help to students. And now is the jobs that he permitted
Students to have part time jobs that might only be worth $10 and a couple
of weeks or whatever it is. You see the help the school and then you could
work out many things. For instance, I took industrial arts and I made a
chest and I don't think I paid anything. All the, not the labor, but the
material, you see then I worked it off and same thing with tuition and
fees that gave us an opportunity to work that off say during the summer
before school started or even during school. So I think that the damage
was very complex and of education that students that came here got the
degrees and most of them naturally the college of education was the only
thing we had until quite some time later. And when I was in here, I think
that was the only thing. So we were caught in there. If you want a degree
and prepare for something, then we took education.
Did you know Dr Gammage personally? Did everybody get to know? Oh yes,
everyone knew the faculty and everyone knew Dr Gammage and he would they
see, I always thought I was on the campus but ah where the old main is,
you know, there's, there's a building right over there, just east and
south. Just a little bit. That's the uh, where they keep their, their old
records and things to keep over there now. Archive right? And there's
where the President's home was right there. Now, if you could see if
you're looking at that building from. Oh mein, that's kind of a door right
there like sort of a porch light thing, you know, you, you can come out
okay now when we graduated our graduation was held right there. The the
the stage was right there by that door and and wooden seats right here and
some wooden bleachers in the back for parents to come, that that's where
we used to have the graduation and then of course the club now there used
to be several different things I think originally it was the science
ability and it became english building and it became ROTC building and I
don't know what else, but today it's the club, university club, university
club. How many buildings were there on campus to remember when you first?
Okay, that was their whole main was there and auditorium, you know where
the english building is? The english building is near the old main over
there a little bit and it's a pretty big building now but the auditorium
used to be there and then it was condemned,
the basement was the women's uh pe that that's where they worked out in uh
in their classes underneath there but it was condemned so it went down and
they built the english building right there, another building that was
there was from english building directly, almost a little bit to the left
across College Avenue is is a building still there that used to be like
industrial arts building and down in the basement used to be the bookstore
now they have the training school, pain training school used to be
oh mein and you're looking south a little bit to the north west over here
was a training school where many of the faculty Children came there,
you know, Christine went there a short time then I think she moved away to
another school.
Okay. And then alcohol
and then there was a kind of a playground right there and I think that's
when they used, they used to play football there before my time, right
there. Then across the way was the new physical education building and gym.
The gym was over to the, to the west of it, Jim west and then in the new
gym and a swimming pool and the women's building physical education.
Where did they play football when you were here? We played at irish field
, irish field. Oh there's a picture there. Someplace I was going to show
you see if there's a picture there of the stadium, it's called irish
Stadium, irish
irish field which was made by the, before our time, the football coach, he
engineered and built that and I brought it so you can see that irish field
, irish field was named after Mr irish. He was a jack of all trades, he
taught science and he was also a registrar and he was a coach. I don't
anything that no one else wanted. He probably did it, irish field and they
had lights that like telephone poles, they use those and then the lights
they were old fashioned. So that was irish field. And today the business
building, not the new one, but the older building right across the way it
was uh this place right there and we didn't have a student union. Of
course. Student union was
just a makeshift place. Finally they made one where students can go there
and that would be across the mall from the present student union, across
the
and there's where East hall used to be there. That was for the men and
they didn't have room. There was a along the porch and you had canvas
rolled down when it's cold and up when it was form and the the bunks were
aligned like in military. And where did you live? I lived in alcohol. What
was it like, describe it for me now for all. You had a basement in the
main and then upstairs.
Okay downstairs, understand Before my time used to be the cafeteria,
before they had the other one downstairs
and that's across from the president's mentioned and there's a street that
goes by there And one of my job is 5:30 to sweep that. Then my broom would
hit the curb and that would be quite loud then.
Well it wasn't intentional. But then mrs Gamage, you know, there were two
mrs Gamez number one. I made a complaint that I made too much noise that I
should quite see early in the morning. It would make quite a sound? And as
you go like this.
And then we swept all the way to uh,
no, no College avenue that long. That was one of my jobs with want another
buddy
could be so noisy. What was your room like at alcohol? You described the
other hall was all just alcohol. We were
not in the basement. We were above, but they were all open porches. In
other words, you had this, this canvas roll, you see, and they were two
bunks on this way and I got the, I got to have the small one, the lower
one because I couldn't climb up to the big one and my buddy used to go up
there. He was taller, you see. So He got the top one. So you didn't have
individual rooms. Well there were individual rooms, but just the two I
think it was, they weren't the big sleeping porch like, you know, that was
East Hall. I found the picture here of irish Stadium you want to describe
again, you know, you were talking about what the that it shows what the
seats were like there
and that was made by coach Mccreary. I think he was also the football
coach and taught physical education. And finally, I think he went to
Flagstaff
before he retired. But I think it gives a picture what are early stadium
look like compared to what we have today.
So then they got a new stadium in 1936,
Yes. Goodwin Stadium. Tell me about that. How did that come about? Where
was it? I don't think we own the land on the so it's over there in the
south and I think they bought it. Uh and then built the stadium there.
They built that first part on that side and then they built this side and
that was part of the work, work progress, you know, after war, before the
war. And that was 36. They were right, it was over uh W. W. P. A. Project.
So you had to have some educational value. So then what they did was made
a part of the upstairs with the dormitory and downstairs was uh equipment
and addressing quarters for the football. And the other side. Of course
that was made separately were the shop
mr need was a professor there and upstairs there for a while I think ROTC.
They were like the,
what do you call them? Some Children that no one wanted orphans sort of
speak. See they were at the club, that place, you see, they were that was
ROTC. And then I think our TC was quite embedded in the old main too for a
while. And also the stadium. Uh the stadium,
Incidentally in 1936,
I shouldn't tell you this, but I played in a game in which we dedicated
that That was my last year at 36 To my class was 37. But that was a
football game.
Yeah. Well, tell me a little about that. Well, I don't know. I think we
won that game, but I can't tell you very much about that. But it was a big
thing for us to have a stadium, just even one side
didn't hold very many people, but it was a stadium. And how did it get its
name? Goodwin. Goodwin was one of the pioneers in this in Tempe. And
let's see, he was an architect and his son, I think became an architect
after him. But uh, there was a good one before that, you see, he was
instrumental in on the early days of the political side of it.
So that's why it's named after the Garfield Good one, I think
to sort of a pioneer in the city of Tempe. And that stadium had a place
for the players to change and everything.
No, no, I don't think that not, not the original one, not the West Stadium.
I think we're dressed over here. Kind of the old gym. Good one. Stadium
had that well. Uh, when they added the W. P. A. On this side on the east
side where they had dormitory and then downstairs was, was the dressing
quarters and showers. And then from there we went to the big stadium. In
fact after they, after we start using that for a season or two at least
for a season. We dressed, do we still dress, you know, over here And then
we caught a bus and we used to have the siren and then uh, mortar police
used to lead us. And that used to be a big thing, The sirens and then we
came a couple of blocks, you see, then we were ready to play then get all
the crowd excited that you're coming up. What about are there any
particular games that you remember as a player that was outstanding?
Well, it's hard to say all the games were big for us
actually not that big, but we were not in the league like they are today.
That is when we played.
So it was probably comparative, but Arizona always had some pretty good
players. You see, they were the university
and naturally most of the boys and parents wanted their Children to go to
the state university. And this is probably true in almost every state,
it's a little more what prestigious and parents would like to say my son
or daughter goes to the university
when we didn't become a university of quite some time.
Incidentally, they fought us to the nail and we had to put it up for a
vote if it wasn't for that. We still probably wouldn't have it. Did you?
When you were playing? Did you ever beat the university? Oh, not when when
, when I was playing.
The worst thing happened was in 46 after the war that we went to play down
there and they beat us.
What was it 67 or nothing or something like that? And that's when everyone
rallied from the president on down that they will never disgrace is again
, that's when the Sun Angels form, you see, and they start putting in a
little money to improve our program and do a little more recruiting and
that sort of thing. Then we thought we'd better change the mascot. That's
when we got the Sun devil. What was the mascot when you were here?
And many of the students didn't want to change that. Well if you're a
student and you had one, one mascot, you said you didn't want to change,
you'd like to keep it. But they changed it, you see now we're Sun Devil
then you had
all kinds of organizations you see to help
donate. So when did you graduate then? From the issue? Wasn't the issue
then? What what? 37 Arizona state And I don't I don't think it was college.
I think Arizona State College College Arizona state colleges. And what
was, what was your degree? Mine? I was in elementary
but I never used it because I just stayed here. Tell me how that happened.
Well that's Mr Leveque and President Gavin, you see, they were still here.
So they helped to take me on. So I never left here. So what was your
first real job after you graduated? Well, I helped with the freshman team
and charge kind of charged with equipment and just a little bit of
everything.
That's the way I got my start.
Well why don't you kind of run me through your career then? What? How did
it, how did it progress?
Well, let's see. in the meantime around 43 I left for the server. She's
we started a special unit that was made up of all japanese americans and
they were all volunteers. Before that when the war broke out, shortly
thereafter, they so called evacuation took place. I don't know whether you
heard about that or not. But they from Canada all the way down to Arizona.
They didn't have a separate distance. But I always used about 200 miles
or so inland. We all had to evacuate.
And the line went through Tempi and then through Mesa. So if you're on
this side, you didn't have to go to the camp unless you couldn't survive.
He had no way to earn a living. Why then you went to camp? So you could
have a roof and some food. tell me about the war years. What happened? I
guess it would have been 1942. That things really started to get a little
tense.
Well let's see it was around 42. I get well 40. When did the bombings at
41?
41, 41. Yes But that was December seven you see. So it goes up to 42. So
it was 42 when the president made a declaration that
the coast all the japanese.
When you say japanese american, why then their citizens, when you say just
japanese, why? It could be none? And you may know this or may not. But
like our parents, people say, why did not, why didn't they become citizens
like anybody else? Well, they had a ruling the government ruling that they
could not become citizens. They could not own land in their name. There
are many things they couldn't do now if you're born here, you are a
citizen like mexican people and anybody else if they may be ah
not citizens, you know when they come here, but their Children
automatically become So when they had this evacuation, the president
stated that everyone living on the west coast
and they drew a line and that may have been a couple 100 miles or so
inland I think primarily they were concerned about these people that were
in agriculture and fishing people and they were doing quite well. Well, I
think there were some people envy that I think
and they probably had a lot to do with this rule coming in.
And they were alerted by people on the west coast probably, you know in
contact with the senators and the president and everybody to get him out
of here and get them out of here. I think, I don't know otherwise I don't
think they would have done that. So it was not just, it was anyone of
japanese descent then not just noncitizens. Right, right. You see that
that's the fallacy of this, this program.
In other words if you you as a citizen, if you live there, we can say that
rule. You had to move out.
Well how did that affect Arizona? Because it's a lot further than 200
miles from the coast. Well, I don't know, I just use that as a number but
they just came from Canada to see all the way down and then came to
Arizona
on us. It was kind of the highway in a way that they had everybody on the
, on the south side. For instance for example in Mesa there was a fellow
that had a, I forget was a pool hall or a grocery store or something like
that. You see he had to move because he was on the wrong side of the road
so he could move to this side, bring his business to this side. They have
been all right. However, you had many people that are all fired up. They
probably didn't like the japanese people. Why should they be there and so
forth. Well when he went to like Safeway they may not sold him food
or went to a place to rent a house to stay and maybe they didn't rent. You
go and buy some gasoline and then probably the service state. He said no
we're not selling to you. Well what are you going to do? Did those things
ever happen to, you know, it didn't happen to me or my wife.
Where did you live at that time?
I see how to describe it was kind of above the above a garage. We had a
little apartment and then we also had a house that a regular house were
where of course dixie how granted. Then he joined the service, he
volunteered for the service and then we have to move in there. And that
was on
this site this mill. And then Apache and that would be right about right
here. So you weren't in the part that the people that had to go to the if
I were on this side then I would what I would do then probably move over
to this side. Where was the line again? It came right through the main
road.
Oh well Apache. And then right through the middle of the mesa. See Mesa
wasn't developed that much. It was mostly right downtown. It was right
there by campus. Yes.
So that was the rule for some of your family and friends. Well my family
they were on this side but Margaret's family, they were in the heart of
Los Angeles. They had cars and homes and everything and they had to sell
it and other people knew that they had to sell it. So they would just give
a minimum amount you see or had to leave it. A lot of people left. All
they can take with them is what they can carry And it may be one or 2
suitcases.
Okay. They had to put him someplace temporarily. So they took them to
santa Anita racetrack
and you know where the horses in the stalls, they gave him a mattress
covers and then you went in there and got some straws and put in there and
made mattresses And they stayed there until they built some places. There
were 10 relocation centers, they call them
and there were two in Arizona one over there by casa grande. The indian,
it was mostly indian because that has something to do with the government
and they hurriedly got some carpenters with with a hammer and saw probably
and just built those barracks you see and they lived in barracks and had
common eating places and bathrooms and not much privacy and there were
thousands of people And there were 10 of those scattered. There's some in
California and Arizona Arkansas
Utah I think
Arkansas was the furthest probably can't, but there were 10 of them. What
what did you think about that when all that was going on? Well it wasn't
much of what we thought, but we didn't think it was fair especially when
citizens were taken.
See we lost the citizenship for that period.
Okay, they were our boys drafted and after this rule went into effect they
took the guns away from them and then ship them in the interior because
they were too dangerous.
So they were they were in like Arkansas and texas. And instead of the
combat teams combat preparation they were assigned to like
service companies where they serviced like foods and things. You see there
is no danger of them and
well service take care of cars or anything without guns. There were a lot
of them like that because there were a lot of japanese in the west coast.
Now then there was a demand to organize this japanese unit and a lot of
people were against it somewhere forward and they kicked it around.
Finally the president get okay. There were some influential people thought
they deserved to fight for their country.
So a regiment includes about 4000 troops or soldiers. About 4000. Now it's
made up of infantry, artillery and a company of engineers and that's what
what is known as regimental combat team. That division has three of those
that makes a division. And when we're overseas then we're the fourth one.
If we were attached to 36 division then there's four of them. Usually the
combat theory is you have to fighting and one in reserve but if they
attach us over here they'll probably drop another 12 of those are
arresting and then our unit and their unit would be fighting unless
there's an emergency you need more men than you call up this other gang
and bring them up. Tell me about how your unit formed and how you came to
join. Okay then then the president said, okay, we're gonna start all
japanese american unit. It was called 4 42nd Regimental Combat Team.
Okay then they asked for volunteers. We had a little difficulty,
especially with the boys that are in these camps. A lot of them reneged
and they said no, they've taken their citizenship away. They will not
serve the country and you can't blame them.
So they gave them a quarter and they gave hawaii a quarter because there
are a lot of Japanese americans there. Okay, so they couldn't fulfill this
quarter and they asked Hawaii for volunteers and there were about 15,000
or so volunteered.
See they were ready to go because they did not, you know, take them away
from home and they didn't know what it was like for their brethren's over
here.
So then they reversed it. They gave them a larger quota, say a couple of
1000 maybe 1000 for the mainland. It's called, you see, so that's how they
form. Now these fellows that were drafted and taken into the interior.
Then they didn't have to join that group. They volunteered again To join
this for 40 seconds.
Now these fellows had military training and these other fellows, they're
calling up even from Hawaii that volunteered, they didn't have it. So
these fellows that were already in the service. they got The good good
spots. There were four sergeants that's the top set and all that. So that
created a little problem that they didn't have a chance. And the other
fellows that volunteered from the camps didn't have a chance to get some.
They could all be, you know, on top but they had they like to have a fair
chance at it. Tell me about how you came to get involved. Well then I
volunteered quite early but I asked if I could stay until school was out.
That's in june see by then they've been Training for about three months
or so and everything is pretty well set.
So the boys from Hawaii came over and the inland people were giving them
orders and all. They didn't quite like that. The only time that they felt
better was when they had a leave and some of these boys from Hawaii and
other places especially Hawaii went to visit some of these camps and found
these fellows were there and they were citizens and they were taken out
and then sent to camp and they could understand why they were bitter. Some
of them, although some of them did volunteer from the camps, not all of
them stayed away but some did and you can't blame them. So then they were
brought over here and they we had our camp at camp Shelby Mississippi. I
don't know whether you know where that is or not. And you know where
Mississippi is, that's almost the end of the world, almost, you know, when
we first went there, they still had these restrooms, black and white, you
know that that's still modern times, but it was still that way on the
busses where they went in the back.
So a lot of our boys say, where do we belong to go to this black or white
or you know, back of the bus. And then another situation I heard and I
will tell that little story is,
and then the bus came along and some of the, some of the japanese
americans, they sat in front I guess. And then
some of the blacks want to get on the bus and I said no, there's no room.
And so they discriminated. So our boys then got the driver and threw them
out of the bus, I just threw him off.
So that's, that's kind of an incident and that Children, 43, that's modern
times. And the south was still, shall we say that way. So tell me about
your own experience. Um, you volunteered and after school was out then,
where did you go to Mississippi? Well, first of all, I was inducted in
Fort Douglas, Salt Lake and there was a bus load that went from some of
these camps over here that they volunteered and I went with them and we
stopped at Flagstaff, had a little lunch and then went on to Salt Lake and
I was inducted there and they gave us about a week after induction to go
visit parents or anybody you see. Then we all assembled and they were
already training then.
So we just, they put us wherever they needed someone that we didn't have
much choice. So then we trained,
I gotta back backtrack a little bit. There's another battalion that was in
Hawaii that were in the service already and they had a little training.
They were shipped over to the mainland 1st to camp McCoy Wisconsin.
And then from there they were sent to Camp Shelby where the rest of us
were. But because they had previous training after they completed their
training, they were sent before us before the four 42nd went, the 100th
infantry battalion became very famous. They went to Africa And they were
attached to the 34th Division and then they started the lower part of
Italy and went through like Anzio. I don't know you you heard about that
was a bloody battle of Anzio and all that. And then the other one was that
church,
it was on a hill like this with the river coming by like this and the
Germans were there all embedded and and they cut all the trees down, they
flooded that area with the water. So when our troops came in there in mud
and they couldn't bring in artillery is Law mud and they would fire and
they're up on top firing down like this we brown the planes and we
couldn't touch it because all the rocks that they build at casinos and
mount casino
and our are not the four 42nd but the 100th one in there. And they
received citation
battle citation for that because they lost lots of lots of people. And
they said this river is kind of exaggeration but they said it it was like
blood flowing down. There's so many casualties.
Finally they broke out of there and then it went towards room and our
100th was leading the pack and they stopped them and they left the tanks
go ahead of them. So they could say that they took room
outside a room in a place called Cvitanovic about 30 miles north. They
were resting there. In the meantime our group is coming overseas.
It took us
26 state almost a month to cross from Virginia
to our destination. Although as we approach quietly the ships start to
peel off, you see and fortunately I have to be on the last ship and I was
there for the full count of days and naturally when their enemy subs
floating around
our ship would go, the convoy will go as fast as a slower ship. So they
had to zig zag a lot like this, you see. So they won't be bombed. That's
why it took some 26 days or so.
So the first day we sail, I was okay and then I was sick seasick almost
all the way until someone sighted land. And I got well right away. And
then when we came off the ship Short distance there was some boxcars. They
called him 40 and eight. You put 40 men or eight horses, they call them 40
and eight. So the sides were open and there was a stack of c rations. I
don't know whether you've ever eaten c rations in cans with cold cold food
inside. So we hiked and got on there and that's how we went all the way to
Rome.
And we will go through tunnels and then the Black Smoke and your your face
would be black when you came out of the tunnel.
So what was your role? What did you do? Well, I was fortunately I was
attached to the division that's a higher echelon and I could contact with
the field battle maps and all kinds of things that I would bring it down
to the er our unit. The artillery. See I was with the artillery
In the artillery. You had 12 pieces. They caught it. But their guns And
they're they're about 5" shells I think. And therefore there are 12 pieces
or guns in the battalion.
And you have five batteries. There are batteries. They're about 100 or so
men and they manned the guns and then they have a survey gang and they
have a line and they'll tell you exactly where it is and you figure out
and they'll the orders will be to shoot one round or two rounds or
whatever it is at this target, you see. And they were right behind the
infantry when the infantry is pressed. It needs some fire. Then we have
what they call a forward observer. He's in between our guns and the infant
infantry and then he'll give number this number that you see then they'll
shoot.
But we were very fortunate and they had some pretty good pretty good
people up there figuring this out. And we became known in the battles over
there as it's kind of automatic artillery. We were pretty accurate. Get
sick. So we got some commendation for that. But all in all the infantry is
the one that took the meeting because they're right up there and they
fixed Bennett's every now and then. And they did that mount casino. When
you hear a fixed bayonet, that means you're going to close with the enemy.
You put the bayonets on there and you go right after him
and our gang did that a lot. Not all the time. But you know, the commander
or whoever's in charge for two leaders. They fixed bayonets while you knew
that was it. You fix them and go after them. So you weren't actually with
the infantry. No, I was artillery was very fortunate. Well some not that
close. We were close enough where you can hear the small arms fire, It's
called those are the rifle one.
So you want wounded or anything. No, I wasn't. But then we had a lot of
casualties, lots of wounded.
Another thing I might tell you this is that we only had one medal of honor
And we had 52 I think
The next next one. Forget it was next medal next to the Medal of Honor.
And Recently about 50 years later that was just maybe a year or two ago
someone was interested in in the military and they requested to reevaluate
this. There were 55 I think had the next highest
and when they have citations says that long, all the things they did and
had to have some kind of witness whenever they can that they did this
person did that
they can't add or detract. In other words, they can't keep adding that
During the 50 years or take away. It's always gonna be there. So they
evaluated and out of 52 I think 20 to qualify for a medal of honor. You
know, there's something
wrong about that. They could have received it when they were they received
, you see, so then they had a Big Party, shall we call a party in Los
Angeles one in Hawaii
and of course most of them are gone. So the next of kin or brother parents
or somebody in Hawaii they had, Well 22 I guess 20 to receive their medal
of honor. This will never happen again. That's what my friend wrote said
that they had generals escorting these recipients up there and they don't
do that very often. And this friend of mine said, you'll never see that
again because they won't have that unit.
That was a pretty exciting time in your life I imagine. Well we were
waiting to come home
but we were there for occupation for a little while
and to come back. He had uh points. If you're married, you get so many
points, you have Children, you have so many points. You have more than one
years and so forth so on. And the fellows that went and were in the
service a long time, they got to go home. But I have to be on the second I
think. And I think it didn't take 26 days for that ship to come home this
time. So we came back to new york and then in a few days as soon as we
landed they gave us steaks and then then we will shift back wherever you
want to go back. So I asked to go to Salt Lake and be discharged from Fort
Douglas because the wife and family were there and then chrissy was there.
That was very noisy. Suddenly there. That's something you haven't told me
anything about. Tell me about how you met your wife.
Well I gotta get down to business now.
But that that wasn't part of the war
in it.
Why don't you just tell me about your wife and then we'll get you back to
the issue. But incidentally, I gave some of that story to the ROTC
see once a year in the spring I think they call dying out, they take them
all out to someplace and have dinner and have everyone
that in the unit ROTC and some of the some of the higher ups will come and
go forth. And I gave the story about from the beginning some of it I gave
you just a little while ago, all the way to the end and some of the
battles and one of the rescue, the lost battalion that became quite famous
and we lost a lot of men to rescue when the division they have those three
regiments you see, and they didn't use their own men and they use ours.
And this was a new general that came north of Italy. Then we went over
with France and went to this forest where they were captivated, you see.
And the Germans were all the way around it. And that's supposed to be one
of the, one of the famous battles during World War Two at the rescue, the
lost battalion. I thought I would just bring that up. But I
well we were just outside because they couldn't use the artillery because
of the forest was so thick when the artillery hit the shelves. The shelves
will break the branches and they'll come right down in the foxhole.
We did shoot some pamphlets, you know, surrender and all that. But they
didn't do that. And the Germans had their prime soldiers. They're the real
top one that surrounded this.
So we had a sometime after war then they governor I think the one that
made everyone in that unit honorary Texans.
So I gave all that and I'm not boasting but ROTC gave me a standing and
also the the commanding officer had a big frame about that side with all
the names of the people in the artillery. The five different groups you've
seen like that.
Then they invited me to come to the
what they call it now when there not pin but what they call that no one
there when they made the second lieutenants in ROTC. The graduation
invited me to that and Christy and I went to that that's quite a thing
because they have the band and play the band music. Okay now let's go back
, let's go back and tell me how you met your wife. Oh okay. Well 1st of
all there weren't very many young ladies you know over here. Yeah it was
sort of not really old but I think I was older than most of these
youngsters over here and I used to go to Los Angeles For the summer just
you know off and on in a week or two. Then I met a relative of hers and
she and they want me to meet her and she was working in an insurance
company, a pretty prosperous and it was, it was run by the top person was
Margaret's brother now and it was and she of course he was married to
Margaret's older sister.
So that went along somewhere and then I met her and then I saw a few times
and supposedly
she had another friend and all but I guess I came in pretty well so in
about a year's time we were married and and then that's the first time she
left home and we came to Arizona and has 41
You see that was June June 15, 41 and it was december when the war broke
out only about a half a year. And then I left in 43 and I was gone. Uh
what about, Let's see, 43,
about 46 years. The war was over 45 June I think. And then it took a
little time and we're occupation in Germany and then came back and then
she was there. So I was discharged in fort Douglas Utah And then we came
down then I started again in the second semester. So did you ever have any
questions that you were going to come back to Arizona and to the
university? You never thought about doing something else? No. Well see
there was a promise from almost any place where the soldiers that left
that they would be promised their job when they came back. Remember? I
don't know whether everyone kept it, but I think most of them had them
come back. So I just came back. And what was the school like when you came
back here? Well, I think shortly after it started to grow because the men
started coming back, you know, for a while the men were all leaving and it
was a lady school. Not only that, but and I think I have there someplace
where this was kind of a training center for the Air Force and all the the
cadets, I guess they're basic. They came here and took lessons and some of
them learned how to fly a little bit before they went into combat I guess
or really received the bars for flight, but they were in the dormitories
and they would march up and down. And some of our instructors gave them
the pt the physical training
in the meantime. Why I kind of left 43. Remember?
Well, yeah. So growing a lot then when, well when I came back and started
to grow, started to grow. Yes. And sports resume. I see we had one year, I
had to have it down there by coach coach. He was a very outstanding high
school coach. When he came here. You can't blame because most of the boys
that came back from the service, they weren't in condition. You know, they
were real heavy and they had other kinds of habits probably and they
weren't, you know, ready for discipline. That's when Arizona beat us 67 to
nothing. And then we changed coaches right after that.
You mentioned something in here about the Victory Village. You want to
tell me a little about that? Well, I can tell you about that. Did you live
there? I did. Well after the war it was very difficult to buy or build a
house because most of the industries were geared to the service.
Okay. You want to buy wood? It's hard to buy wood and they were green
because they're trying to sell it. So they cut it and then, okay, what
what greenwood would do? You build a house and then we had evaporative
coolers and all that moisture coming in. Your door door might fit just
right. And next day it may warp. You see then you have big openings,
things like that and you might wait oh, several months or longer for
bathroom fixture because they were building something else, tanks probably.
And
well one Luck. I had a, I had a friend I think was, I was at the bank here
and, but he had a friend in Washington someplace for the loan and usually
you asked for a loan. It may take you months to get it back. This one just
came almost overnight. You see that's what you have a buddy for. Then the
builder, he liked to go fishing. So okay, he's ready to go and figure
there will be several weeks or months before I get that clear. So he's
gonna go fishing then all of a sudden comes in and we're ready to go. And
so he couldn't go fishing. So that's kind of a funny thing. That's not so
funny as my one wall was almost all windows and the wind blew one night.
And then next day I went by the look and that wall was down,
where was this house that you were having built? Right over here on on
this side of broadway, right off of college.
Is that where you still live today? I still live there for 52 years.
Well, tell me about living in the Victory Village Village. You were
Gammage Auditorium. Is
this side right next to the uh college avenue.
It was a big house and the foreman of that. It was called a college farm
then. And he had horses and cows and and grew some feed there and so forth.
Well it was pretty well cleaned up. And then and then a very little
housing for students or faculty and no one you see, we couldn't hardly
rent a place.
So then they started bringing in military barracks and then cut it in a
three or four, you see. And then the faculty got prime. Now students, if
they're married, they got some housing and there were these trailers, they
would put it on these horses and things, Things prop them up and they
lived the student marriage. Students lived in, the faculty lived in the,
so we call that victory Village
and then I got some sour orange seeds and then I made a plot about four by
six or so and then start planning, start growing a little sour orange
hedge and then it was about the size of a pencil when we built our house
in our heads That goes all the way back. 100 about 40 or some odd feet in
the back is still there. And I started in the size of a pencil.
Must be a good farmer. I don't know. But some of us, uh, some of the
coaches like Quinn and honored frio, we're still together. We all lived
there and some James Chrisman lived there and a few of the faculty members
like english protests and so forth. And that was very exclusive area. It's
called victor village.
Don't tell me about when you came back from the war. What was your job at
the university then? Well, about the same, I started where I left off and
I took over the freshman freshman football and I don't know whether I had
basketball, but I had freshman basketball and, and then, uh, they need a
baseball coach. So I was a baseball coach for a while. And, and then I
gave it up and, but at the same time I had classes plus those coaching.
See today they don't do that if you coach football, that's all you do. So
I had classes.
What sort of classes I teach? I thought some it's a required car of course
called school.
Um There was a health class that every, the students had to have in order
to
receive a teaching certificate.
And there was another one where there was an element elementary school
physical education. That's that's these games that they play and uh rainy
day games and things like that.
Then we had what you call it. Came in, what's that group that went
overseas or in the country.
Mhm.
Kind of saving people or teaching them to farm peace corps. See they had a
unit over here when the students came and we caught some physical
education and other things. And I helped him that Tell me a little bit
about how the sports programs were changing and after those years, how the
school was growing from the after the war years and into the 50s. Well I
think the sports, it started to grow and you have boosters and all that
helps help
getting supplies and getting players
and little added money. And now I think all these money must be funneled
in certain places. So you can take advantage. And now now we have a limit
of players that we can have on scholarship which And some of the wealthy
schools instead of 100 that will have 150 or so. Then Tell me about that
game in 1946 against Tucson. Were you there for that game? What was that
like disasters For? Uh, 60? was there 67 to nothing?
Well, the coach was only, they're only with us one year Coochie don't have
that. He was a very successful high school coach in Mesa.
But you couldn't blame him. His manpower was very LTD.
Then we brought 47. And then what did we bring?
No, not Dixie Hall, Is that dirty? And they already came in 47.
I think it was Dixie home.
Nixon was a very famous player at Alabama.
And then in 30 30,
38, 39, 40 we went to the Sun Bowl two years with Dixie Hall. Then he went
to the service.
No, there were only four bulls in the country. Then Today there must be 20
or more and we went two years in a row and we've, we've had some reunions.
That was before the war though. 39. Yes. Just before because he went to
the service after the war. Um, After that defeat in 1946, you were telling
us about, why don't you tell us again about how they changed the mascot?
Oh yes.
Well there was a drive two later on a few years later to try to get the
university title and you know, they wouldn't give us give it to us
legislatures and Arizona was the key to fight us
and they put it up for a vote. Then we got it. That was 150 something when
58.
But you changed the 47,
And how did you do that? The idea? Well, I see. We've got, we've got the
sun angels going, you see, and then we got this sun devil about the same
time, you see. So they thought that if we're going to have boosters and
all, they're going to change the, the face on everything. So they thought
that we should have a different mascot. And then the students voted and I
think the students finally voted. I didn't vote, but of course I wouldn't
want to change. No one's been here a long time want to change no matter
what it was, rattlesnakes or whatever. So I think the students voted for
it and that's how it became. And then they got the fellow in Hollywood,
what's his name? I think one of those cartoonists, Disney, I think they
drew that for us. I think that was it. So the students, they put it up to
the students. You see that,
Tell me about some of the traditions, You've got some notes in here about
some of the traditions of things that you used to do before the games.
Like tell me about how they got the af on the butte. When did that happen
?
Gosh, I have the date, I think down there 38
for first, there was
what, what was it in normal school I think it was and first and then and
then became the T. Tempe teachers and then become the A. And the A. Was
put up finally Pretty substantial one. The one that's up there now I think
by the key club, Key club is a national organization, a service
organization. Before that at our university had what was called 13 club,
there were 13 members and then subsequently it became the Brooky,
Not boasting, but I happen to be one of the 13, I still had the 13 number
, he's at home. So then later on I was out of school, they voted me in the
blue. What's that? Bookie?
But I think that's still going on and I think they have some blue keys in
the high schools to, it's a service organization.
You were mentioning something about a bucket brigade. Oh yes, there used
to be a little canal that went by the base of the view and had a bucket
brigade to get the bucket water and handed up handed up and then the
whitewashed the letter
and then they used to guard the A two before we played Arizona. So they
would come and paint it blue all the time. So they would have a group of
fraternity. I think it would camp out there day and night, you know, the
week or so before the game. So they won't come. They have a big a in the
mountain. I don't know whether you've been to Tucson or to the right And
that's a huge, Great Big Rock one. And once some of our boys took an
airplane and some bombs went over there and bombed and didn't even naked.
So they cut that out. Then one night I think they went and put the burned
the a on the field.
You know, you can't grow it back again overnight, not overnight.
And you were mentioning something about bonfires to a bonfire. Yes. You
see before they had the stadium, the, the saddle of the two buttes, you
know, they almost came together like that. You think incidentally at the
end on the river side that used to be the city dump.
Okay. But anyway, the beauty came this way and we had a bonfire in between
the buttes.
So they were gathered would at least a week in advance or longer and
people would get the trucks or pickups and go wherever they can find. They
go out on the farm or someone has a loose fence. So they'd probably pick
it up. And one item is uh, the ancient toiletries and they bring up one of
the houses, put it right on the truck and bring it in and they were pile
it all up and then the night before the game, then the football team and
faculty and everyone incidentally going out the wood going after would why
? Usually about friday and no one went to class. They would go out and
look for wood and yes, I remember there was, I forget his name now. Young
english professor, young fellows and he would get on the wagon and go out
there and get the wood. Everyone had a good time. I have a bonfire.
But you would think it would be like the one in texas. That's that's they
build that up quite away, didn't they? I don't think they have it anymore
since the people got hurt. But it wasn't a big one. Like that was no, ours
wasn't that big. But we had lots of fun though. Are there any other
special things that you remember about your many years here at the
university that you wanted to tell us about? No, I don't think so. Am I
through there? I think so. I saw pretty much covered most of these things
. I think I didn't, I didn't think you're gonna use that. I would have
studied a little better. Well, tell me, what, what is it about your years
here that you're proudest of?
Well, it all depends what, what category, if it's sports. It's one thing
and
well, I think one of the proudest moments is probably
when I received the honorary
and then my daughter
hooded me and I think that doesn't happen very often. I don't think even
in modern times, I don't know whether that ever happened. Someone should
make a study of that. Any place in the country. I don't think it could
happen. I shouldn't say that. It will never. But that wouldn't happen very
often. I don't think you could have a daughter do it. But not when she was
vice president of the university. What was your title when you retired
associate professor, I think.
Tell me a little, just in general, how did you see the sports department
grow and change while you were here? The sports department?
Well,
what made it grow you say or just how did it grow? How do you compare what
it was when you came to when you left? I don't hug and
kind of a demand. I think,
I mean we were in a certain league and in order to excel in that league,
there's something pushing you in kind of a demand that we've got to do
this if we want to do it. If we didn't. We said no, we're not going to do
it like Chicago member. They have some great football teams and so forth.
And then they said no more. There were big stadium and they would use it
. I don't think you see Chicago and that was a great I think educational
institution in that area or any place.
So demand Almost any any field. You got to have the demand, otherwise it's
not gonna grow.
When did you retire 78.
So you were here when, when frank kush was here. Oh, I went through with
him. Tell me about that. What? I don't know what you want to know about
that. But yeah,
Anyway, I can still see in the physical education department there's steps
going up and then right underneath there were visited once and he said, I
think I might have a chance to apply for this job. I said, well, if you
want it coach you go for it. Only uh, suggestion I have is when you're
assembling your assistance, be sure that you get loyal people,
if you're gonna hire someone, you know that they played football and you
tell them what you want done. If they can do it, you get someone else. But
be sure they're loyal to you. And when this thing happened, some of them
weren't loyal. You see that that's the thing. Almost any organization I
think is about the same. You don't have the loyalty.
And that night that he was told not to coach. And that was against
Washington, I guess that he went on the coast anyway.
And some of those assistants weren't loyal, you see. So after the game, my
wife and I went to his house and we didn't know that he wasn't supposed to
or many things happen. We didn't know. We went there and he came out and
said, where are the rest of people with no one was there just the two of
us.
So I don't care what kind of organization you you're running? I think you
have to have loyal people
is there and you've got to treat them right to, otherwise they're not
going to be royal. Maybe some of that happened, I don't know. But my
philosophy is if you're not happy and you're like, you're not like the way
or treated by your head coach, you know, well, you should get out
before you hurt someone and hurt yourself and just go find another job or
change your career. Do something else.
How do you feel, looking back on your career?
Well, I I just stayed here and sometimes I wish that maybe I should have
changed a lot of coaches. They might coach several different places like
cutter. He's been not a head coach, but that last place was his head coach.
But other place he was assistant. But I think he had in his mind, that's
the way he's gonna learn the game better maybe by going different systems
and different head coaches and assistants and so forth. So he was
successful at Boise then I think that's why he was picked up for here. But
sometimes unless you're fortunate you may not be able to turn the team
over overnight. Yeah. And I'm sure he's a good coach and has lots of
experience,
but you've got to give him a little time, You know, you want something
like a car to go 80 miles an hour right now. It may burn out before it
goes very far, but so far the team is getting a little better. And then
the quarterbacks, he started with one, he's going to stay with that one. I
don't say he was wrong. But then yeah, that other fellows seem to be
producing. So maybe you'll get to play a little more. What made you stay
with this school all this all the time?
Well,
one thing coming back to loyalty then I think the school got me where I
was, you know, dr Gammage and coach Slavic and all well then unless they
hurt me, why I should be loyal to the school,
that's kind of a simple thing to say. But but I think you always have to
come back to loyalty and that goes to any family, the Children or parents
. I think there's gonna be some loyalty to that unit that the family,
but you stayed loyal long after the doctor damage and coach were gone.
And I use the word mentor,
I think a mentor is someone that teaches you and trains you
and if he did a good job according to the rules that should instill you to
continue.
If you change all the time, then you didn't learn a good lesson.
I mean, and loyalty and they were both loyal, especially coach Leveque was
loyal to me when I went away and market, I was working for the school and
she couldn't go with me and she was gonna stay in a dormitory. And the
logic said, no, you're not staying in a dormitory. They took her home and
and she stayed there forever. She wanted to. But after the basic training
, I came back to get her and they took care of her. You know, all of that.
That's part of loyalty.
Is there anything you wanted to ask? No, I can't think of anything I just
learned so much in the last couple of hours. It's unbelievable. I hope. I
wish you wouldn't say that because I'm not I'm not a teacher
told some stories, you know, before World War Two that I wasn't aware of.
That was great
and that so called depression. That that was real tough.
Some people ended.
But a lot of people survived it too. Well, yes,
and some of us are still around that went through that. Not too many
though.
Well, we certainly do. Thank you for your time. Well, if you have any
other, well, there's so many other things we could ask you about, but I
think we've got what we wanted to get today. There's something that almost
sounds like I might be coming back again, you know,