by identifying on the tape that today is Wednesday december 5th of 2000
and seven. And we're here at the A. S. U. Community services building to
do an oral history interview for the A. S. U. Retiree association Video
Living history video project. Um And I'm pam Stephenson doing the
interview. And Manny Garcia is our videographer and I'd like for you to
give me your name so it will be pronounced correctly
spell that for our transcriber, L I N D A V as in victor, A N capital Ss
and sam C O Y. And tell me when and where you were born? I was born in
phoenix. So I'm a native, I was born in ST joseph's hospital which I think
is still there. And uh I lived my early life in this area. I've always
lived in Arizona The year I really
don't want to February
19, 1948. I was born. I thought I was going to get around that. Okay. Too
young to retire. Um So you grew up in, in phoenix? Yes. Um We I was born
in phoenix lived there for a while. My father worked for Salt river
project and so he was transferred to different areas and live in Coolidge
Arizona for a while and then we came back to this area and we actually
lived in a little house right next to this building. I'm not sure which
direction which was owned by Salt River project and there was, they called
it the four Bay and there was some work that my father did. So they rented
the house to us And then he did the work right there on the facility just
right around the corner here. And then we moved to Tempe in um what is the
Hudson manor district which is about Apache and mcclintock. And that's
when I was six years old and then I started my schooling and we lived in
the same house until I left to be married. And and now I live in Gilbert.
So
I'm truly an idea. And your father, you said he worked for srp what did he
do? Well he was an electrician so he did sort of electrical work for them.
Hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm. And what about your mother, did she work?
She work today? I assume she was a supervisor in the student loan um which
is part of the business office back then. And that's one of the reasons
that I went to A. S. U. Was because she worked there and we were able to
get the tuition benefit which I probably wouldn't have been able to go to
school if it hadn't been for that. So same with my sister, I have one
sister and she also graduated from msu just the two of you? Just the two
of us. Yeah, mm hmm. Well tell me what was it like growing up in Arizona
fifties?
Well gosh that was so long ago
it was a small town atmosphere in Tempe. And the house we lived in, there
was nothing behind our houses except for cotton fields. So if you can
imagine um which would have been like from Broadway Road south. It was
just farmland basically back at that time and just a small town atmosphere.
And so rural road was a rural road. It was a rural road. It was dirt sort
of when you kept going south. Because today you wonder why did they call
it
much rural about it? Mhm. Mhm. And so did you, did you get into phoenix
much or did you pretty much stay in occasionally in phoenix? My mother
before she worked today as she worked in downtown phoenix at Goldwater's
department store in the business office. And occasionally we would take
the bus to downtown phoenix to go to the movies um visit my mom, you know
when she was working that kind of thing. But other than that we didn't get
, we didn't go down to downtown phoenix much. What was downtown phoenix
like then? Mm hmm. Uh you know, truthfully all I remember are the
department stores must have been my early shopping history. Uh there was a
store called cortex and there was the Goldwater store and well worse than
movies and that kind of thing. That's about, that's about all I remember
of an old fashioned downtown. Mm hmm And what about downtown Tempe? What
was it? Um Let's see, it went from where Mill Avenue is. Of course Montes
was always there. That was the starting and then there was hotel, an old
hotel I think it was called the casa Loma if I remember right. And then
drugstores there was where Hooters is now was a a Laird's drugstore. That
was sort of the drug store in town Kempe center was um the up and coming
meeting place when I was in school junior high and high school. They had a
Rexall drugstore there that had the soda fountain and everybody would meet
there on saturday for sodas and to just talk and either walk to the movie
or just kind of mill around in the Tempe center area. The movie. That was
the Valley Art. Uh huh. Yeah that was the movie theater, what was it
called? It was called the Valley Art. Um Yeah it was. What about the haven
flour mill was that we're operating as a flour mill back then. Not that I
recall. I don't think so. If it was I didn't pay attention.
She didn't have any.
But what sort of things did you do for fun back then? Well like I say we
went to the movies and we met at Tempe center um Daily Park which is down
on college was also a meeting place where we would gather for fun. Um In
junior high and high school there was on the corner of rural road and
Apache boulevard, there was a hamburger stand called the university drive
in and everybody called it the U. D. I. For short and everybody that was
anybody. You know drove it was a drive in and they had the gals that came
out and took your order um Would go there and that was a lot of fun. So
things like that cruising mesa, cruising central to.
Yeah yeah you cruise down Main street to the Jack in the box, turned
around and came back, went to the U. D. I. And then you cruised into
downtown phoenix and went to bob's big boy and turned around and came back.
Mhm. Probably only the jacket box is still there. It's still there. It's
still there. That's right. I think the U. T. I. Is the temple Chamber of
Commerce now and part of the Holiday Inn.
And so you say you went to school in Tempe. And every school I went first
grade and sixth grade to Ritter school which was just torn down recently.
It's on that was on the S. U. Campus. Um And then 2nd and 5th grade
through fifth grade I went to Broadmoor elementary school and 6th and 7th
grade I went to McKamey Junior high and high school. I went to. So all my
school years here in Tempe now. Why did you go to the Reader school? Those
two years And it was some kind of a zoning educational zoning issue where
and I don't really remember the details of it but I started there and I
went to sixth grade there and then in between they moved us. It wasn't my
choice. It was a school thing. Perfect. Yes that's the second grader. You
really wouldn't I didn't know. I don't think I cared.
Yeah. Mhm. So you were a Tempe High graduate. Tempe high graduate. They've
just been having there, they just had their 100 year school sort of
celebration which I did attend. It was a lot of fun. What was the Mp high
like that? Um It was not too small. It was the only high school at the
time, although they were building Mcclintock high when I was a senior. And
my class was the last full graduating class from Tempe high after that the
kids went to Tempe High and then they went to Mcclintock also. So and I
think we had a pretty good size graduating class. Seems to me it was like
about 350 or 400 was a good size of class. So and I had harry Mitchell was
my government teacher.
And what was he like as a teacher he was a good teacher. Yeah he got the
kids involved, make sure you're aware of of course public affairs politics
, that kind of thing. Um He was strict didn't allow any sleeping in the
class or anything like that but he was a good teacher and he remains a
good friend today. Did you put people to sleep? Oh no not at all.
Was he involved with city politics already at that time? No not when not
at that time it was shortly after that I think that he went into politics
full time.
That's right, that's right.
So you're still in touch with him, yep. His sister whose name is Kathleen
um Mitchell Colette was my best friend and still is one of my best friends
and so I was uh connected to him that way and my sister who was older than
I went to school with Harry. So I was connected that way. And their
parents Harry's parents Harry and Irene Mitchell were are my first
landlord after I was married we rented our first house from them which was
right next door to the house they lived in. So we belong history with the
mitchells I guess. So it just shows what a small town.
So going through school, were you a good student? I was a good student, I
was not an exceptional student but I'd say I was be a good solid B student.
Did you have thoughts of what you wanted to do when you got out of school
?
You know I didn't I knew I didn't want to teach, I knew what I didn't want
to do and I didn't want to teach. And so when I came to a S. U. I started
like a lot of students do with just sort of the general courses to see
what might be interesting and I did always like english. And so that's
what I ended up, that's what my degree is in is english and but I didn't
want to teach. So I just have a good solid english background which served
me well for some of the writing and letters and that kind of thing I did
with the staff in a staff position here. That s you
did you work through school or it's your first job? Yeah. Um when I was at
a S. U. My first job and I was a student the whole time I was going to
school, my first job was in an office that we called personnel, which is
now called HR
and I worked there for about a year and then I transferred to the College
of Engineering Dean's office, they had a word processing pool. And so I
was hired on as a student to help in the word processing pool at that time.
And um the dean of the college was li p Thompson, which I think he's the
founding dean. And I worked there until um until I graduated and when I
graduated, I um well, kind of a personal side of this at the time, my then
boyfriend, now husband went to, was drafted into the marines, which is a
little bit unusual
and he went to Vietnam. And so at the time he was in Vietnam when I
graduated. So I decided well I was going to get a job but I didn't know
exactly what I wanted to do and I just thought I would do something until
he came back and then see what happened. And it so happened that the
division of Agriculture which was part of engineering at the time needed a
staff clerical person. And since I worked in the dean's office and
engineering as a student, they, when I graduated, they said would you be
interested? And so I said sure. So I started working there as my first
full time job at A. S. U. But that lasted only about a year or a little
less because I was invited um by carl dan Infeld who was the academic vice
president to come and work in his office. Which I did in which I stayed
for 35 years in that office. So did you ever have a job that wasn't an
issue? I did not. Mm hmm. I was born and raised here. I guess
that's probably some kind of record I think um we'll talk about what was a
issue like when your first memories of issue, I guess you were in first
grade. Oh yeah. What was it like back then? I don't have a memory of the
issue when I was in grade school because I just wasn't paying attention to
that. But you start paying attention um in junior high, when I learned
much to my amazement that after you finished high school you had to go to
college. That's what my mother told me, my father because neither of them
had gone to college and they were wanted to make sure that my sister and I
both went to college. So I just was brought up with the notion that you
know, you just went from junior high to high school and then on to college.
So I think in junior high and high school I started thinking about it,
being aware of the issue probably of the football games and you know, just
where the campus was and then my mother was working there. So you know, I
knew it was there and I knew I was going to end up there when I ended up
there. It was A big shock because it was I thought it was huge at the time.
You know, in comparison of course it was not that big now I think we had
about 20 or 25,000 students at that time. Pretty good. Did you ever visit
your mother when she was working here? Yes.
Yes, I knew your way around. Mhm. That helped. And I lived at home so I
didn't live in a dorm. Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Well, both
probably at the time, you know, I kind of wished I could have been at the
dorm, but finances didn't allow that. And looking back, I'm probably lucky
to have been at home because you get more study time and you know it's
quieter and then you have the family around you. So, so that was nice.
So when you say when you came, you really didn't know what you wanted to
study or That's right. I really didn't. And so I just took the general
courses and then sort of focused in on english because I enjoyed english
and then decided, well that's what I'll do. That's a good general degree.
What year was it that you started college? Well, I graduated high school
in 66, so it would have been the fall of 66 and I graduated in mid year.
It was just, well, back then it was january these days. They graduate in
december, but then it was january. So it was January of 71.
And what was, what was going on on campus when you came in the 60s, what
was campus like? What kind of that was that? There were some protests and
things going on at that time?
Um hmm, that's a good question. There was some, some war protests, that's
probably what you're talking about. There was some of that, there was some
, I'm not sure I should get into this. Um, a faculty member Morris starsky
, There was kind of a big story about him. So there's a little bit about
that, um,
that's all the protesting kind of thing I can think of to get involved in
any of the heavens. No, I dont movement to, that had some protests on
campuses somewhere. I don't remember that protected, I guess I was.
So
so you mentioned in your notes here that you worked with a lot of the
different presidents. Yeah. And provos you want to talk about some of the
people that you sure.
Yeah, john swallow was president when I started working um in my full time
staff position and
my boss of course was carl Dannon felt at that time, he was the academic
vice president and in that office, um it was a small office, there were
just four of us carl and he had one assistant whose name escapes me, I
can't remember right now. And then his secretary was normal roads and
myself. So it was just really a mom and pop shop at the time. And we were
located in the President's office suite, in the administration building,
the old administration building and the provost's office stayed there
until we've been in the Fulton Center for almost three years in february
will be three years. So, so it was in that building the whole time except
for the last 2.5 years. And um
well let's, do you want me to go through the people that I worked with a
little bit of the administration, the old administration building as you
call it. Um what is that building? Like, where is it located? It's the
building right across from the Memorial Union, just west of the Memorial
Union and I'm trying to think what's in there now, the Hispanic research
centers in there now and I think some of maybe some global engagement
offices on the first floor,
It's just a two story building. And uh where was the President's Officer?
Where was your office? You mean physically? Okay. Well when you walk in
the building you go upstairs and immediately to your left, that was the
President's office on one side and then the academic vice president on the
other side of the corridor. So it was like in a sort of a joint suite and
it was a small office at that time that the vice president had an office,
his assistant had an office and then the to staff people norma and I were
outside of each of those offices, so it was very small, very close. What
were you actually, what was your job? What did you do? Um Well at first in
my first role I was a clerk typist or some sort of staff position and I
would just do a lot of typing and uh errands and filing and sort of
helping out norma who was the main secretary and supporting the other
assistant to the vice president. And then shortly after I started their
normal retired and I was promoted into her job. So I took a giant leap
were very quickly in my career and was assistant to the academic vice
president and Continued in that role through eight vice presidents or
provosts which they now call them with various duties depending on how the
office changed or what that new person had in mind to do or you know what
the border regions had in mind for us to do or you know, and as the office
grew and we centralized and decentralized and centralized again,
that kind of thing. So talk about your first job there, You were just the
clerk and assistant. How much money did you make? It was about $5,000 a
year. It's not crazy. 12 months. Mm Hmm. And then when you got promoted,
that first promotion was that big financial promotion too. You know, I
don't remember that. It was that much, but I'm guessing it was probably
Just a couple of $1,000 like 2, 7000, which would have made a big
difference at the time. Yeah.
Yeah. Did you think when you took that job that you would be there for the
next 36 years? I did not know. Um, as I mentioned, I was waiting for my
husband and my husband to come back from Vietnam what she did. And then we
were, Let's see, that was 72 when I started in the vice president's office
And we were married in October of 72. So, um, and I thought, well, you
know, I'll just kind of work a little more. He didn't have a job. And at
that time, unfortunately, as we all know the Vietnam veterans weren't
welcomed and had a hard time getting a job and he had a very difficult
time getting a job
and then thanks to one of our friends back to the mitchells again. Um
Kathleen's husband, Ron colette. His father worked at Motorola and he got
my husband a job at Motorola and so then we were often running. So um but
before that I was the only, it was the only income was what I was bringing
in. So that was an interesting time.
But at that time I thought, you know, I'm just gonna try this job for a
little while longer. And occasionally I'd say, you know, I think I should
get out in the real world, you know and and look for a job and my husband
would say no you don't want to do that, you know, you're fine where you
are, you've got good benefits, you know, it's a nice place to work and so
and it was and still is and so I just got comfortable and enjoyed what I
was doing and just stayed. That seems interesting that you stayed. But the
your boss has changed a lot.
Yeah. I worked for eight individuals who had that office actually one of
them. I worked for three times. Elmer Gooding he was acting or interim Um
provost for academic vice president several times but I only counted him
once in the 8th. Okay. Yeah. Why don't you talk a little bit about each of
these people and most of them look like, well the last one.
Well let's see um carl the NFL of course was my first first boss in that
position and he was the kindest man I ever knew. He was such a good fellow.
Um and he up and it was a mom and pop shop and he operated it that way.
But I remember and speaking of his kindness, he told me once
when you're, when you're on the career ladder that you meet many of the
same people going up the ladder as you do, coming down the ladder that
always stuck with me. So it was like, you know, you better be kind to
those people because you might see him more than once in this in this life.
So um and he was, he was a potter, also a pretty, pretty good potter. Um
and then the next, you might have to help me with the names if you've got
them there. The next one page, Mulholland, mm hmm. He, when he came, I
think that's when the office changed to um I think he was executive vice
president and provost or something. Is that what it says there? Okay, so
that's at that time the office actually changed its name and you know
people I didn't understand why and some still don't because when you say
provost's office, they don't know what it is or they think of the military
with provost marshal. So um but but um and paige was came from outside the
university, so he was you know hire from outside and he was and he was all
business, he was a nice, nice man, I enjoyed working for him and my
position changed a little bit then because he hired someone to be a
secretary and I became more of a um executive coordinator type and helped
with the budget and that kind of thing. So I while I had, it was in the
same office, my role sort of branched and took different turns with each
person that came in depending on what they wanted to do. So you were more
like an executive assistant
secretarial.
Yeah, I've heard some people really like patient home and other people had
other things to say really, what did they say? Just remember hearing
different things. His name has come up in a lot of these interviews,
looks like he wasn't really here that long. How many years do I have done
? 81 Okay. Yeah, and he left to be, let's see, where did he go, I've
forgotten now and in indiana I think, but
but he was, I thought he was a good provost and he was he had just had a
different way of operating like they all do and of course everyone was
used to carl's style which was quite laid back and kind of folksy and
paige was really all business in the fast mover so you know, there was a
little change there, but but he was great to work with dr um kept in
contact with him for a while, the last time I talked to him was about all
three, about four years ago, he stopped in to see me when he was here. His
daughter works in the on campus, his daughter in law, excuse me, works on
campus in um comptroller's office I think Marilyn Mahone
and who's next? Jack Kinzinger Kinzinger,
he was a great one to, I've enjoyed all my bosses actually, they've all
been so different. Um he was a mover and a shaker. Um he immediately, one
of the first things he did I remember was I was trying to get us involved
with some kind of a program in Mauritania and I just was just thrown into
this sort of and I was assistant to at the time thrown into this new world
of working with all kinds of people and thoughts and concepts that I had
never never had before
in africa. And uh so um but he had a lot of good things and I'm thinking
um the research park was one of the things that he was under his reign
that he was responsible for, pushed to get that and and it was big and
everybody thought, you know this is never gonna work, it's you know, it's
not going to support itself and and I think it was probably touch and go
there for a while, but of course now we know that it's doing well. So
that's one of the things I remember he was responsible for. Um, he was big
on diversity practice that in staffing and um, he was, he was a good guy.
Had the staff grown a lot from the four people?
Yes. Um,
I think at that time There were two assistant to the vice president or to
the provost and each of them had a staff person, he had a secretary, I was
executive assistant to, I think at the time. Um, so we maybe had gone to
six or eight instead of four
and that would have been under nelson was the president nelson did that
make a big difference of who the president was and the relationship
between the, the vice president or provost president? Well, um, the
provost or the vice president has always been, you know, second in command
to the president. So there's always been a close relationship there. Um,
I'm not sure whether it's just my memory or if it was true, but I don't
recall Carl and Suada being having a whole lot of interaction of course
they did, but not as much as presidents after that. Um, Russ nelson was
not quite as much of a hands on president of others, but he started that
way and, and he, and uh, I'm pretty sure he and the, my bosses had more of
a connection or met more often than than the earlier with carl, somebody
described as being more aloof and kind of staying to himself in his office
and not out shaking hands and meeting people as much. Is that your
impression? Absolutely talk about that a little bit. Um I don't think the
students would have known who he was, he just didn't get around, you know
, walk around campus like others did. Um pretty much stayed in his office
and worked there and we would see him occasionally in the, in the offices
, but not a lot, you know, whereas other presidents that was like a
revolving door back and forth between our office and their office. Um And
as each president came more and more and more, I would say, so not so much
with swat to a little bit more with Russ and then laddie of course, um
very hands on. You know, every student knew his name and
after Jack Kinzinger, there was Roland, Roland Hayden just a couple of
years. Yeah. Roland had been the dean of the engineering college and was
asked to take the position.
It wasn't an interim. I mean it was actually an actual appointment. So,
but I think the idea was it was going to be for a short period of time
probably while they were looking for someone else, as I remember what was
he like, he was an engineer.
He was, people were terrified of him at first because he had a reputation
of being very stern. All business was sometimes a temper. Um, but I never
found that to be true, I found him to be kind hearted and, and good and,
and easy to work with. So maybe he changed when he got to our office, I
don't know, but but he did have that reputation and perhaps he was that
way with with others with deans and things and people that he needed to
have them, you know, pay attention to what he meant. But are there any
major issues during his time? Hmm.
What were the years?
Eighties 87 88. Yeah, probably. But I don't quite honestly, I don't
remember.
So then he was replaced by Richard peck. Yeah. Um Richard peck was
academic vice president or no, I guess he was provost. Is that what my
notes said provost? Okay. Really? For just one year and then he was here a
second year, but the second year he was acting president. And so those
were part of the times when Elmer Gooding, you know, it was, it was in and
out of our office during those times and that was one of them.
Um let's see who was president. Do I have the years there? Sure, I think
cooler would've been president by actually it probably was before core
one stepping down and not, you know? No, not replaced is my guess.
So he was not really there very long
and then in, he was like I said provost, he was acting president and then
instead of coming back to join us again he was offered the presidency at
um in Mexico I think. And so he left to go there. So he wasn't here very
long. Those were the days when our office was considered to be the
revolving door of provosts because they were there like Roland was there
just for a couple of years, Dick was there for a couple of years and more
was in between when we were looking for people and um did that make it
more difficult to do your job? You weren't sure who your boss was going to
be? No, not really because you know in in those kinds of jobs there are
just things that you do routinely. Um so it didn't make it any more
difficult. It's just it's just nice to have a boss one that's going to
stay and and when um let's see, I guess it was was Milt Glick when he was
interviewed, I remember that was we had so many provosts and in the
interview people were asking him well how long will you stay? You know, so
he promised he would stay at least five years And he ended up staying 15,
which was great. He's the he's the longest term. Yeah, yeah. So what was
it like when he came?
Well um he was a great great um provost in my mind one of the best that I
think we've ever had. He he got a lot of things going that were um had
sort of been on hold because nothing had been happening when we'd have a
provost for, you know, one year, two years acting here. So he really got
things going. He got the faculty involved in administration, got their
confidence was active with the Senate and
I can't remember what time, I guess A S U west was under page mo Holland's
time. I was thinking about that too. Um so, so it wasn't an issue west,
but when we started growing really fast, I think was under under melt
would have been the east campus maybe. Yeah, these campus under him.
Remember how that came about? Was that that was a big deal, wasn't it?
Yeah. Um
you know, they're they're um I don't really remember how it came about now.
I should, but Charles.
Did he? Mm hmm. Well, of course he was the provost out there when it got
going. So, but
but anyway, melt. Uh one of his goals was to increase enrollment and boy
did he?
And of course, over the different years with the different provos, we've
added more vice presidents and you know, with different roles for each of
them. So he had there were and there and all the deans of course report to
the provost. So a lot of the vice president's reported to the provost, He
was just really active hands on, he was very involved with President Core
and then later President Crow, when Michael came in as a matter of fact,
Michael was a consultant that Jack, that, excuse me, that Milt brought to
campus, um, for a couple of years before Michael became president here. So
we interacted with Mike when he came to visit on his consulting business
with Milt and they were colleagues um, before in Iowa, I think. So, you
got to know Michael Crowe before he became president. What was your first
impression of him? Hmm, in that role or as president for the first time?
The first time I met him, um,
a firecracker, I guess even then, yeah, he was just all go, we had all
kinds of ideas, I can remember melt saying that he was the smartest person
he's ever known. So coming from a provost that's saying something and he,
and he had like all kinds of ideas for the university through mail to what
in his consulting role, things we could do. So, um, and he was in and out
probably, you know, a couple, two or three times a year would come into
the office and talk with Milt. So I didn't have that much interaction with
him other than to know who he was to say hi and you know, that kind of
thing.
But sometimes that's when you kind of get to know people to, how did he
remember you when he came back and was he? I think so. I'm sure he did.
Yeah.
Okay. So it sounds like you've had the longest term. They're by far of any
of these people in some ways. You probably ran the office I think. So.
They always said so. Yeah, that's one of the things that I enjoy doing is
um I'm I don't like to be in the spotlight, I like to be behind the scenes.
I enjoy making sure that my boss or my colleagues look good to do
whatever it takes, you know, to make that happen. Um to make sure the
offices looks good at the office has a good reputation and um I've been
told by many that it did and it was an office where many people aspired to
work over the years and that gives me a lot of pleasure. Yeah. And
particularly when you were going through all the transitions and the
acting periods, exactly, you would be the one that had the continuity
there. You know, what, what needed to be done, what deadlines need to be
met, what border regions policies we needed to pay attention to and that
kind of thing. Didn't they rely on you to kind of train the new provost?
Um
um Well I guess a little bit, I mean you really do train them in some ways
just with the basics and provos have joked, you know, that I've trained
more provosts than you know, anybody they know. So I guess there's a
little training involved just for the basics, of course, especially if
they're new to campus, you can find their way around. Oh yes, that's
always a challenge.
You know, Albert Gooding came in with several times, talk a little bit
about him.
Alma is I'd say Elmer and Milt together are the one of, if I have to say a
favorite, some of my favorite provos and that's because of their, their
work style, their work ethic. Um
they they will melt would say he never was a mentor, but these
administrators definitely our mentors just by observation, you learn from
them and the two of them, Elmer and melt were
the fairest. They were so fair to people that was up most I think when
they were, when they were dealing in hard situations, making difficult
decisions, they always had in mind what was fair to the employee, whether
it's a faculty member or a staff member and you know, you just witnessed
that through what they did and it was and it just stuck with me. Do you
have any examples of that? Well probably I shouldn't talk about them,
you know? No,
that's probably the best part
you were talking about their their work style. Is that you know, what do
you mean by that? Um Well for me, um what I liked about their work style
was they included me, I was more of a confidante um a right hand person,
so to so to speak, so that um, in, in all of my, in the position with all
of my provos, one of the best parts about it is that you see the big
picture and you know where the skeletons are and you know things that you
never tell and you know things like that so that's a fun thing and they
but they really didn't include me and gave me a more responsibility um
Milk especially um um he turned over the office to me to be director of
the office in addition to being assistant to him. And so I had sort of two
hats under his regime which was kind of nice and just you know allowed you
to expand and have more responsibility in different areas and um increased
people that reported to me so that I had supervisory responsibility as
well and just just a real career growth mode through um through him. And
did you get more pay by that too? Yeah. You know always as you're promoted
up the line you get more pay so. Yes. Yes I know sometimes that the state
um salary systems is not easy. Yes that's exactly right but you know um as
you get promoted usually there's money assigned to that and if you have
increased responsibilities then there's a way to to be able to be rewarded
for that. So I was fortunate to have that happen.
What about you know the your last
executive vice president and university provost Elizabeth Capaldi. Mhm.
She's been here um a little over a year. She started in august a year ago
, august so she's been here about a year and a half now and she came from
the Sunni system in new york and um she has
changed, she has a different way of doing things that every one of them
has. You know as I mentioned to you it's not just her it's it's all of
them but she has a different work style whereas other people
would give you all of the information that you needed, what I was privy to
just about all of the information um with the new provost she sort of
compartmentalizes and just gives people information that they need to know.
So that's a big change. Um from seeing you still see the big picture but
sometimes you only get pieces of it and you have to piece it together that
way. But that's okay, that's just her style. So imagine it's probably
always difficult coming to a brand new place and she's just within here a
year or so you think she'll change I won't I won't be here to find out but
I keep in touch with the office. So so no I think that's her style and
that's that's fine. Um It works for some people.
Is it different having a woman in that position? It's the first woman
that's ever been in that position. That's right,
it is different you know um
And I had not worked for a woman administrator. Well except for one, there
was one assistant to the vice president many years ago that I worked for
and um I don't know, I think women administrators are have a hard job
because there held to the standard of a man and and maybe even beyond that
because they are women I think sometimes so they have to work harder and
try harder, it seems like to me um but
but that's okay,
sort of always still have to be proving they can do the job.
Well, I know you said it's um it's hard to talk about, you know, any
specifics, but are there any over all the years you've been here any
particular times of things that happened that you'd want to tell us talk
about and have on the record here. Um
Well let's see. There was times that I remember that we're sort of a big
deal were when we were awarded research one status, I don't remember what
year that was, but I remember that people were all excited about it,
especially the president and and my boss. Um people were excited about
hiring faculty that had national recognition recognition like national
Academy faculty Nobel prize winning faculty that we have and just other
awards for faculty. Those were always a big deal.
Um Of course everybody is always waiting for the U. S. News and world
report to come out to see what our ranking is. That was always a big deal.
Sometimes a letdown. But when did that start becoming a big deal? Um, I
think my memory is in, during president course regime is when we really
took notice of that and started making efforts to, to see if there's a way
we could get our rankings up in different programs and for the school.
Um, Rose bowl was a big deal. And you've been to a couple of those. Just
the one I think just the one have we been to to Roosevelt's anybody know?
Two? Okay. Um
Oh, okay. Yeah.
Was the one, I remember the first, the first one. First one thought there
was another one. Did you get any of those? No. Mm hmm. Did not. Um, let's
see what other things kind of a big deal. And we had the presidential
debate here that damage
And uh
Barry Goldwater's funeral. Ah was it just some of the things that sort of
stand out in my memory?
The Pope was here too. That's right. Yeah. He was in Sun Devil Stadium and
we had to cover up all the sparky logos. I remember that. Why devil? It's
the devil? You can't have the devil with the Pope coming. I hadn't thought
of that.
You've had quite a lot of celebrities, but that was a bigger one. Mhm.
What? I was involved with Ronald Reagan.
That was, that was a Big one. Security Wise.
The dalai lava. Yeah. Yeah. There's been a few, haven't there?
I remember because I was at channel eight and we were televising both of
those in charge of the crews and the parking.
Where can you park the truck, getting the crew up there if you can't park
there for the Dalai Lama Ronald Reagan particularly. Yeah.
See what about some of the other notable things that went on? You've been
here for so long. Uh Do you remember frank kush and the football things
that were going on during that period? Did you get involved at all?
Not involved but of course aware of it and um I think it went all the way
up to the president's office. I'm sure it did. Um it did but you know,
just to be aware of it and and hear about it that it was going on but not
to be involved in it. Anyway.
What about the expansion, you talked about the growth campuses but what
about when A. S. U. West was the first extra. Yeah think about that. I
remember it was just huge of course it was our first leap into having
multi campuses. It was
by legislative action of course and it was something that and I believe
this I think it was under page Mulholland if I remember right when that
happened um that he really was worked hard to achieve and was happy when
it happened and we all were to until you get down to the nuts and bolts of
it and then it's like, now wait a minute, you know, they want to do their
own thing and they're supposed to be part of the university and it was
sort of like a little struggle, you know, to um, were they a part of us or
were they a separate sort of university on their own? And, and I think um
, when they decided they were going to have their own colors, which was
teal and something, I mean that was, it was like, okay, now wait a minute
,
this isn't gonna happen. So, and then, you know, as people got used to the
notion of the other campus, it was like, well just let them do their own
thing. And of course they had their own accreditation at one time, that's
what they wanted and they got, and now we're back to accreditation for,
you know, all of us, the soul centralized, decentralized thing that keeps
rolling around. Um, so, um, so yeah, it was kind of a tug of war with the
west campus, you know, we wanted to have it and we got it, they want to do
their thing, they didn't want to be part of us and now they are part of us
and uh, then it was like let them do their own thing, you know? So I know
one of the people we interviewed talked about it that it was sort of a a
surprise, but when the land was donated and it was like, where is it? Way
out there. Yeah. It just seemed like it was way in almost to California at
the time, doesn't it? Yeah. Because there was nothing there nothing there.
So that must have been a challenge to figure out. How do you start
building a holder campus
and get students to come and mm hmm. And now look at it. Were you involved
in all with that or just
one of the other challenges some people have talked about are the years
when there were budget cuts going through. Remember how that affected your
office? I do a little bit because of course the provost was then
responsible for um, allocating money to the colleges and to the other
officers report to us and when we had bad budget years, there wasn't
enough money. Um, and poor Elmer has, has ever been interviewed. He's
probably probably spoke a little bit about that. He he sort of ended up a
couple of times as I recall of being the bearer of bad news on his watch
when we had very little money with the budget. And it's, that's a hard
thing, especially when you're trying to grow and increase enrollment and
hire new faculty and you just don't have the money to do it. So it was, it
was difficult. I remember,
is there any other challenging times that you can think of, particularly
memorable survivor? Well,
the budgets were, you know, because they came off and those were often
really probably the most challenging that I can remember from our office
perspective, um
which impacted morale, which was always, you know, then a challenge to
increase morale for faculty and staff and those kinds of things happened
and keep good people from leaving to take other jobs and oh, those, that's
, those are always hard decisions.
Is there any one thing during your career here that you're proudest of
personally?
Probably um the reputation of the provost's office? I think it had a
stellar reputation um and I think I had a part to play in that and I'm, it
gives me satisfaction and I'm quite proud of that,
you say the office has moved now, when did that take place?
And 2.5 years ago, it'll be three years in february february 14th actually
I remember, and at the time uh
and Milk Glick was still the provost and we were in the old building and
it was an old building and we really didn't want to leave, you know, it
was like that was home and um I was just so I thought, you know, when they
built the Fulton Center, it looked so sterile and so corporate and you
know, why did we have to move? We were in the center of campus where the
students were and right across from the Emu we were in the hub and you
know, I couldn't imagine that it would just ever be the same again. And I
just thought it was going to be so sad when I had to leave that building,
but when we moved into the new building it was like wow, this is cool,
it'll work, you know, and you just don't look back, so nobody missed the
old building and you know, it was so nice to have workspace and nice
furnishings and you know, a nice building and we still have the students
around us, you know, um in that, because the campus is sort of moving
north, tell me where is the new building and describe it for me, it's on
the corner of college and University on the northeast corner, it started
out being the foundation building because we lease it from the foundation
, they built it and we, we leased the space in there and then it was later
changed to be named after Ira Fulton called the Fulton Center And it's six
stories in the 6th and the 5th Floor Foundation offices and the fourth
floor is the president's office and the provost's office and the third
floor are other vice presidents, like public affairs and
Carol Campbell's offices um and general counsel and those kind of things.
2nd floor is student affairs and first floor is the liberal arts
primarily and some student offices, so it's a very nice building, very
nice, I enjoyed working there, Fulton's name is ending up on a lot of
buildings described which one this is
um so, so it's been a good move. It was a great movie. Yeah, it was
thought that the foundation couldn't have nicer office than the president
or
um yeah, you know, I sort of remember something along those lines. The
President's office is very nice. I don't know if you've been there but
it's, it's very, very nice. So are the foundation offices so they're
pretty close but maybe there's just a little bit better, a little bit
better view.
We're in about three minutes pam. You wanna change tape or you want to
pinch
have a couple more things to ask you about. Are there some things that you
wanted to talk about that we didn't talk about?
I don't, I think so. Probably when I get home I'll think of something I
should have said
june do you have some things that you're thinking? We should have asked
her how about you bob?
I would be very interested in linda's
perspective related to the university image. Images. Hello and the
communication aspects.
I might have to write it down
the technology and communications has tied together to create the image
that we now have over because we haven't always had the image and the
recognition and I think a lot these technology
combined with the communication that we created on campus pretty much the
poster, our image almost Yeah.
You mind maybe I'll put the word No, no, I think you're right. I, I guess
I haven't really thought about that but I'm talking to him
but um I know that the current president and the provost are very aware of
that that image and though there's a lot being a lot of attention being
played to technology for pretty well for web pages for example, I mean I
don't know if you look at the web but it it changes um almost constantly.
Um in the early days we had, when we had webpages we had a web page and it
looked the same every time you went there and now you know they update it
with things that are happening and going on and um and the president of
course has the blog and the provost has the blog and you know, all of that
kind of technology to help with the image that bob's talking about. So
yeah it's it's it's very important and has helped I think,
okay this is tape to with linda Vince
um Let's talk a little bit about the changes you've seen over, you know,
36 years at the university. Um we talked about the growth and some of
those changes, but what about technology um when you first came you said
something about you were sent over, what did you call it to the
engineering college that they were doing word? Word word processing. Yeah.
So what was that technically like at that point? Yeah, well that goes
back to sort of like Caveman days doesn't um when I was in the word
processing pool in, in engineering in the Dean's office, we had one of the
very first word processing machines which was called a magnetic tape
select IQ Selectric typewriter and M. T. S. D. And honestly the thing was
enormous. I mean it was the size of one of those tables and one person
used it and it had a tape system to it and so we learned how to use that.
And that was sort of the leap into what we now know and getting rid of
the self correcting typewriters and liquid paper and white out. And I
think what was the advantage of that machine? What could it do that? Well
you didn't have to worry about correcting carbon paper, carbon copies like
we did in the old days and it would merge you know, addresses for letters
with the text. I mean it was magical. The things that it could do and
store and stored at that time. What we thought was quite a bit of of
memory. So that was my first introduction into that kind of a technology.
I learned to use that at the time. And do you remember those kind of those
machines what they are working in Los Angeles for buy magnums advertising
department and they sent me for a week of training to learn how to set
type for ads center it or justified left and right. Yeah. Okay. That was
amazing. Yeah, it was amazing. So bringing back memories and so then over
the years you've seen a lot of changes. Why don't you talk about some of
the technological changes that go on behind the scenes to keep the
university um with the advent of that then of course there was the
personal computers and then and not everybody had one at one time because
they were so expensive and there would be just certain people in offices
that had them but event. But now we have them and now we have people with
two or two or three screens on their desk. And and a lot of the work we
did initially um was done by hand with the catalog for example, you would
make changes, you would handwrite changes on a paper copy and send them
over to june pain. Let her take them to the printer. And then you would
have proofs back and forth. And it was a long process and of course ah the
changes today the changes are immediate. You know, you can put them up on
the web as soon as they happen back then you waited a year to make a
change in the catalog. Same with other publications like the roster of
committees at the university uses those were all done by hand and then
done through publications to a printer. So same with the policy manuals.
Um you know, it's amazing to think back that could how do we ever have the
time to change all those things in that in that way? When you think about
how we change them now and the office that was responsible for putting
together the catalog, the general and the graduate catalog and the
policies and the procedures manuals. Um, eventually we came to report to
our office and and to me. And so I was involved with the process of when
the catalog made the change to go electronic. And for many years we had an
electronic version and a paper version because we just thought, oh my gosh
, you know, some people don't have computers, they can't, they won't have
access. You know, how will they get to see a catalog? And so up until just
two years ago, we printed catalogs, a certain number of printed catalogs.
Um, in addition to the electronic version. And now we're just strictly
with the electronic version of the catalog. So that's, that's huge. And
like I say, you know, you get your name out there, people all over the
world click on it and see what our web page looks like and what we offer
and what our programs are. And so it's it's remember when the university
first got a web page, Was that a major decision? Hmm.
You know, I'm I'm thinking, um, it must have been in the 15 years when
that time when MIlt Glick was there. Because I remember he hired people
just to do web development. So that would be my guess maybe within the
last 15, 17 years ago, something like that? 15 to 17 years ago today that
I can't imagine the university or anybody not having. Exactly. Yeah, but
that was a big deal. It was a big deal. Um Hmm. And was your office
responsible for overseeing that or how did they decide who's going to be
in charge of?
Well, now getting in a little bit of an area that I'm not too familiar
with, but I know that information technology had a role in that in some
way and that the provost's office did because like I said, I know that
Milk click hired a person. I remember just to do the web pages, but it
wasn't an area that that I was involved in at the time. But as it grew,
how does the university keep track of what goes on all those web pages
that all the different departments have to control? Something doesn't go
on that they don't want on there. Yeah, Well there's a whole office who
does that now and it's it's out of the provost's office and there's a
staff of, oh my gosh, you know, Maybe 10 or 12 people, I think that work
work on it to keep it updated and, and items do go through them for
approval or through them through the provost or other administrators for
approval, I should say. So that there's some control over, you know what,
what goes on there? All these people basically. It is, yeah. How did how
did it affect you? I mean, you're in the middle there all those changes.
Can you tell us a little bit about that? Well, you know, just like with
change, you know, it's a good thing, but you have to work through it and
that's and I can remember thinking, you know, why can't we just do this
the old fashioned way? You know, why why can't we just write these changes
down? Like we're used to doing it then once you get used to how easy it is
to make the changes and how how fast you can turn around and how the
information is just up to date immediately, you know? That's a good thing.
And so you you you the changes are okay, but it's hard working through
something like that. It is, Well, I can see where you've got a book that's
uh 500 pages and you make a mistake in the middle. Uh you put a typo or
whatever and you'd have to reprint the book and now you can do it with a
keystroke,
but she didn't reprint the book. You just live with mistakes, right june
june never made mistakes. No, she didn't, she told me
um Another thing that's changed, I don't know how you weren't involved
directly, I guess, but the whole way of students being registered for
classes, it has been drastic. Yeah, like you said, I wasn't involved in
that, but sure that's true and now they have um well let's see what do
they call it. It's it's a mapping system for their degrees that's all
online that they do now and and another thing was of course changes. Um
We're all done by hand on paper and now that's all done electronically
through a project called that's called Acres. And so that's you know you
you make that somebody goes in and makes the change and then they have
approval levels and people approve it and you you've just done away with
paper and it's quicker and it's quite amazing. I hate those students
because I stood in the sun out there
with my little cards with the little holes and oh gosh yeah and then if
they made a change by the time you got to the end of the line the class
was full and they said well just go back and get another one of you have
to start the product. So I hate the students if you don't mind. I don't
blame you. Remember those lines probably stood in those lines? That was my
understanding at the end of it though my counselor whose name was
Catherine Gammage
she said well that's part of the learning experience here. That's what you
told me. Never been saying at U. C. L. A. Was if you don't learn anything
else here you'll learn how to stand in line. You
were having to reconstruct your entire schedule on the run, you'd have to
redo it all because if that class was full mess up your whole. Absolutely.
So you had to figure it in your either figure it in your head or you had
to figure out why you ran to get on the other line. Have plan B in mind,
huh, bob. And we covered some of that that answered with the things you
wanted to talk about. Okay. Um anything else that you can think of? We
should be asking? That's that's a good area to think about it. Very good.
You've seen a huge change. It has been monumental
and it's still going, we don't know where we're going. We don't know where
it will end up? You know, a lot of classes are now being taught online.
You think maybe the campuses, we've known it will disappear. No, we have
to have our bricks and mortar.
You still have to have the experience. That's right. I think that's part
of it. Standing in the lines really was, you know, mrs Gammage was one of
the greatest persons that I've that I've ever known. She kept me in school.
I didn't want to anyone, but she part of the experience was meeting her,
part of the experience was waiting in the line. So looking back is there
anything that you would have done differently.
Mm hmm.
No, not a thing.
Mhm. It was wonderful.
And what are you going to do now? Well, I'm going to spend some time
getting my house and files and that kind of thing organized like most
people do when they retire. Uh some traveling. Um my husband and I are do
racing land speed racing. So we'll have some time to do some more of that.
And my sister just recently retired. So she and I have some trips planned
together. Those are normal kinds of things. I think retired people do or
just do whatever you want to. That's the that's the big thing because you
can, you can be like june, she's too busy. I know you can come and be on a
game board. Okay.
Well he doesn't want to be secretary. So we've got an open june resigned,
resigned from the board. But when she was our great secretary.
Mm Let's see. one thing I always like to ask people as we wrap up is an
advice that you have for young people today starting out and trying to
decide what they're going to do with their lives. Hmm. Um
Well, I think as far as going to college picking a university that um they
should carefully look at the programs and if they know what program that
they're interested in. You know, take a look at that and compare it to
other schools. Um to make sure you have the right program. But more
importantly, I think it's the fit of the university because You know,
coming here now with 65,000 students. it's not gonna work for everybody.
They, some people might be happier at N. A. U. Or a smaller school. So
just you know, making sure the fit is right and that you're programs are
good that you're you're gonna be aspiring for. Of course you didn't do
that,
but that's why I'm giving the advice. Yeah.
Anything else that you want to add? Just two things that came to mind that
I didn't mention that we're I thought were kind of important and one of
them is our MArs and space project program that I've thought about is
probably one of the most interesting and has done a lot to elevate us
nationally. And um the other is the honors college talk about each of
those, tell us what is the Martians? Well, you know, we have the space
program and I think it's ted chris not Ted Bill Christensen who's, I know
what ted Christensen Phil Christensen who's a big part of that and you
know, it must just be phenomenal to have the work that you do
the aboard those spaceships that go out to the moon or to the to mars and
the mars rover and have parts on it or having played a part in building it.
So I think that I remember is when we were talking about big events that
, you know, got people excited. That was another one of them at the time.
So and it and it helps, you know, the university's image nationally and
also the honors college. I think that has just, it's a national model now.
And uh what is the honors college describe it for us? That's the, the
barrett I should say. Barrett, the honors college is what it's called now
I think. And uh that's for um some people call it elitist but it's you
know, for the the top students, the top scholars that come to the
university and have, they have some special programs. But um Ted Humphrey
was who was the dean? Founding dean? I think of the honors college was
just instrumental in my mind and getting that word is today because he
would go travel to different towns and meet individually one on one with
the students and their parents too promote the honors college and to get
them to come to A. S. U. And that just paid off in such dividends because
we are a national model now and I think that's a good thing. What does,
what does the college do or how does it work? Well, I don't know what you
mean by that. What does it do? Is it a physical place that the students go
to school? Oh sure. Yeah. It's
and they're just building um or it's just about to be done or maybe we'll
be done soon. The physical
location for it now. They've been in Hayden, I want to say Hayden hall
over in that area which they designated as the honors college before, but
they're going to actually have their own dormitories dedicated to that and
study areas. I think this coming fall, if I have memories of special
courses or something different than other students, I think they have
harder, a little bit harder courses, more stringent um,
programs and courses that they take
and some courses that are just for honor students alone. So
what, what does it was that's what makes it special or what makes it the
model well? Um, because it's, it's quite successful and it's large and we
have a lot of students that are coming to it and of course the product and
the end product of the student, they go on to do wonderful things. And so
I don't know that much detail about it, I'm sorry, but I just know that it
was one of the things that the administration was very proud of and it has
helped to elevate our name nationally.
Anything else? I think that's it. Okay. Are we done? Yeah, I think so.