WEBVTT 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:04.077 this is carol to Cosmo. We're conducting a living history video interview 00:00:04.110 --> 00:00:08.166 today with Leon Shell at the Arizona State University for the Arizona 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:13.826 State University retirees association. Today is Friday, 00:00:13.859 --> 00:00:19.736 19, 2007. And we're with Leon Shell at the Arizona a issue community 00:00:19.769 --> 00:00:25.506 services building on curry road 00:00:25.539 --> 00:00:28.206 to begin with. We're just going to let our interviewers little bit know 00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:31.806 about your early life. Could you tell us where you were going and raised? 00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:37.576 Yes, I was born in Ohio. Uh, I have a twin brother and both my brother and 00:00:37.609 --> 00:00:45.006 I, I went to school from 2nd grade on with our father being the principal. 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:51.317 So we learned early on uh, kind of to set the example. But one thing I 00:00:51.350 --> 00:00:57.256 decided before I graduated that I wanted to go into some form of education 00:00:57.289 --> 00:01:00.997 from all these years with my father being a principal and superintendent 00:01:01.030 --> 00:01:04.147 of schools. But the one thing I didn't want to do was to go into 00:01:04.180 --> 00:01:09.286 administration because I saw my father would get up in the morning in the 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:14.436 winter and check the roads for ice. Wouldn't take our vacations until he 00:01:14.469 --> 00:01:18.257 hired all the teachers in this summer weekends. He was working nights, he 00:01:18.290 --> 00:01:22.036 was working. So that's how I ended up in the administration. Finally, I 00:01:22.069 --> 00:01:25.807 guess where did you? 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:30.406 Well we started out at Bowling Green State University and then moved to, 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.417 we went out to play baseball actually one summer in Grand junction 00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:38.596 colorado loved it. And but we started out at Bowling Green and then we 00:01:38.629 --> 00:01:43.706 went back to a junior college Mesa Junior college. But from there we went 00:01:43.739 --> 00:01:49.367 to University of colorado where I where we finished our degrees and from 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.697 there I did my master's and doctorate work at the University of Northern 00:01:52.730 --> 00:01:58.527 colorado and Greeley. This makes the junior college, was that in Ohio now 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:01.607 excuse me, that was in Grand Junction colorado, That's where I met my wife 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:07.436 actually. So that was fortuitous that I got there when you say you you and 00:02:07.469 --> 00:02:13.577 your brother, my brother and I Yes, uh huh When did you come to Asia? I 00:02:13.610 --> 00:02:21.610 came to the issue in 1967, August of 67. I had been a schoolteacher, math 00:02:21.990 --> 00:02:27.696 science teacher coach, counselor psychologist. And I was at one time in 00:02:27.729 --> 00:02:34.087 the Glendale school district at Sunny slope high school but I was on the 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.886 campus with another friend and I had interviewed for a position in ed 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:43.927 psych and counseling and I was already, I was in California's school 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:47.737 psychologist. But my friend and I were interested in coming to Arizona 00:02:47.770 --> 00:02:51.497 State University, starting up a learning diagnostic clinic learning 00:02:51.530 --> 00:02:56.297 disabilities. But after the interview and I felt pretty good about the 00:02:56.330 --> 00:02:59.277 interview and I was interviewing for the following year. I I'm I'm in the 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:03.047 student union and I meet George ham. Now George hamm is our dean of 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:08.166 students at the time and I'm with this one friend of mine who knew him and 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:13.277 we got to talking and my friend kind of gave dr hand my background and he 00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:16.827 said well I've been looking for a dean of men all this last year, would 00:03:16.860 --> 00:03:20.207 you be interested in applying? 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:24.106 Really surprised me because I had gone through college and I never worked 00:03:24.139 --> 00:03:28.117 at a college and I said well you know that's very nice of you but no I 00:03:28.150 --> 00:03:32.036 don't think so, I I don't think I'm interested. So over the lunch hour I 00:03:32.069 --> 00:03:36.856 called my wife and she was staying at a place where near where we used to 00:03:36.889 --> 00:03:43.487 live uh oh near Glenwood Avenue or Glendale Avenue. And she got all 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:48.406 excited. She said you know aren't you going to even check into it? So I 00:03:48.439 --> 00:03:53.656 called back and so I did tell him that I would interview, we went back to 00:03:53.689 --> 00:03:57.156 California and I was going to start my school psychologist position again 00:03:57.189 --> 00:04:02.606 for the second year. And I got this telegram to come to interview that 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:07.087 issue. So I interviewed Along the short of it, I got the position, I was 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:15.120 age 30 and I guess I was the right place at the right time here. But I had 00:04:15.939 --> 00:04:21.517 a chance to meet dr ham. And uh to this day we're still friends. He later 00:04:21.550 --> 00:04:25.806 became, well he became vice president for student affairs. Then he went to 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:31.916 University of texas at Tyler is president of the university, who is the 00:04:31.949 --> 00:04:36.176 president of the issue. Homer Durham was homer would get around to all the 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:39.736 residents halls, which impressed me right away here is the president going 00:04:39.769 --> 00:04:44.897 to the residence halls meeting with students and quite a fine gentleman. 00:04:44.930 --> 00:04:51.197 Uh but he was present at the time that the campus Number one, we didn't 00:04:51.230 --> 00:04:59.230 have a mall that extended to the north of the fountain. Ah and that was 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:05.467 much later. So there was a street there. We didn't have a student rec 00:05:05.500 --> 00:05:10.666 center, we didn't have a student services building. We did have an old 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:15.046 Goodman Stadium, which was later became a lot of the sites for some of our 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:17.906 student protesters. 00:05:17.939 --> 00:05:22.346 We didn't have a university activity center and we had a danforth chapel 00:05:22.379 --> 00:05:26.827 that sat right in the middle of the campus. That was used frequently by a 00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:32.707 number of students and marriages and whatever, 00:05:32.740 --> 00:05:38.306 what exactly does the dean of students do. Uh well, first of all, I really 00:05:38.339 --> 00:05:42.736 felt fortunate I didn't become dean of students until 1972. I I replaced 00:05:42.769 --> 00:05:48.416 the former dean of men. But for me, I view it viewed it really is an ideal 00:05:48.449 --> 00:05:56.449 job. I had the contacts with faculty with students. It was a nice balance 00:05:57.939 --> 00:06:04.416 between administration and all the other faculty student contacts and but 00:06:04.449 --> 00:06:10.127 as to what he did or she did well, I need to digress a moment. The first 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:17.606 year I was there dr hamm changed the titles of Dina Man and Dina Women, 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:22.596 two other titles because at that point, if you were a woman, you would go 00:06:22.629 --> 00:06:26.906 on to the Dean of Women's side and Katherine Nichols was our Dean of women. 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:30.147 And if you were a man, you would go on in the same building in Matthew's 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:35.096 Center, you would go on the men's side. So on the men's side you had men's 00:06:35.129 --> 00:06:42.786 conduct, you had fraternities, you had men's academic honorary. Um, and 00:06:42.819 --> 00:06:47.606 actually back then they had associated men students on the women's side. 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:55.007 You had women students conduct women's academic honorary sororities. Um, 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.827 and um, all these women's academic honorary. So that got changed my first 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:06.897 year there, which was good because we were not integrated, but it used to 00:07:06.930 --> 00:07:12.906 be, we had a men's honorary called Blue Key Carnival, for example, that no 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:18.337 longer exists, but they used to put on a carnival every, every spring over 00:07:18.370 --> 00:07:23.187 over an old man park. Uh, Women's honorary is, we had a very popular 00:07:23.220 --> 00:07:30.587 honorary called Angel Flight. Well, with the Educational Act amendments of 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:37.986 97 or 1972 no longer did we have organizations just for men or for women. 00:07:38.019 --> 00:07:43.937 So these academic honorees were opened up. So that's the first thing that 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:49.806 happened when I came in and um, there were a number of changes right away 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:56.606 because with a change too, a more integrated office, we had a lot of 00:07:56.639 --> 00:08:02.467 opportunity to, there was a lot of opportunity to develop programs and so 00:08:02.500 --> 00:08:09.697 I felt very fortunate ah to be a part of a lot of the development here. 00:08:09.730 --> 00:08:14.416 But the Back to the dean of students, what he did, one of my major 00:08:14.449 --> 00:08:18.796 responsibilities of student conduct. So I worked with student conduct for 00:08:18.829 --> 00:08:24.947 probably 26 years. Uh, and somewhat people might view that as a negative, 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:29.397 that was a real positive. I I love doing that because it fit into my 00:08:29.430 --> 00:08:34.266 background, my previous teaching and counseling background and I met a 00:08:34.299 --> 00:08:37.787 number of students that I wouldn't have otherwise gotten to know through 00:08:37.820 --> 00:08:43.217 student conduct and so I was in a position of being of help to them. But 00:08:43.250 --> 00:08:47.047 the other part of what the dean of students did was one of my major 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:51.827 responsibilities was Associated Students And I think I attended student 00:08:51.860 --> 00:08:57.136 Senate meetings and executive council meetings for about 26 years and to 00:08:57.169 --> 00:09:01.896 being being involved with the associated students was a real plus it was a 00:09:01.929 --> 00:09:06.207 nice change of pace for me, you meet all kinds of students, we had some of 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:13.016 the most outstanding students whenever it could hope for and to look back 00:09:13.049 --> 00:09:16.437 now at what some of those students that were in associated students and 00:09:16.470 --> 00:09:21.006 other student organizations, What they did is really a good feeling, but 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:25.376 another responsibility. We had student organizations under us. So we had 00:09:25.409 --> 00:09:30.516 an opportunity to develop along with our admissions office. Some of the 00:09:30.549 --> 00:09:34.366 student paraprofessional programs, admissions have devil's advocates. Well 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:38.116 , we developed what was called the reach staff students, helping other 00:09:38.149 --> 00:09:42.077 students become involved in campus life. We had a student foundation that 00:09:42.110 --> 00:09:46.807 was kind of a fundraising organization, public relations organization. Um 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:54.766 , early on we developed the area called disabled student resources and 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.736 that was under my jurisdiction. 00:09:57.769 --> 00:10:04.717 We started with one person in Matthew's centre with our dis disability 00:10:04.750 --> 00:10:10.457 resources center. Then we hired a wheelchair repairman and to this day now 00:10:10.490 --> 00:10:15.026 , I mean we have one of the better to say disability resources programs 00:10:15.059 --> 00:10:20.577 probably in the country, but other responsibilities. Well the one I I 00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:24.307 really enjoyed the most was the contact all the student organizations 00:10:24.340 --> 00:10:29.746 associated students but responsibility for the counseling service, career 00:10:29.779 --> 00:10:37.779 services. We started up what was called the educational ah support program 00:10:38.539 --> 00:10:41.837 and we had a gentleman, an african american gentleman by the name of 00:10:41.870 --> 00:10:46.366 Bernie Jackson. Every campus should have a Bernie Jackson. Bernie was this 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:52.896 great big, huge person, had a tremendous smile and he had a great big bear 00:10:52.929 --> 00:10:57.557 hug for about all of his friends. So he became friends with faculty and 00:10:57.590 --> 00:11:03.207 students and um, he had a very calming influence if well he never had a 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:08.236 bad day, but he headed up our tutorial support program called educational 00:11:08.269 --> 00:11:13.736 support programs. So that was another program early on that was developed 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:18.327 later on programs, developed 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.667 our reentry student programs, programs for women Hispanic mother daughter 00:11:22.700 --> 00:11:28.087 program, International students was under that program, also under the 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:34.356 Dean of Students office. So we had a variety, a diversity of programs. We 00:11:34.389 --> 00:11:38.287 had an assistant being that really helped us develop our diversity 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:41.807 programs. These 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:47.217 were the programs that we had an under representation of ethnic minority 00:11:47.250 --> 00:11:49.976 students really, at the campus and that was one of the main issues, I 00:11:50.009 --> 00:11:54.976 think For higher education during the 70s, the 80s still a little bit. And 00:11:55.009 --> 00:11:59.026 we've made really a lot of progress the university has in, in those 00:11:59.059 --> 00:12:04.616 particular programs. But One of the things that took a lot of her time 00:12:04.649 --> 00:12:09.907 during the 70's was the 00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:16.567 reaction to our movement to Vietnam. Um, the 70s. It was really a period 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:24.600 of activism. Student activism. We had the Vietnam war going on. We had 00:12:25.620 --> 00:12:33.620 students, the momentum was building from about 1967 on and we had the mall 00:12:34.610 --> 00:12:38.907 responsibility. So we had all kinds of tables literature on the mall. But 00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:43.506 for a period of two or three years we were having protests and marches 00:12:43.539 --> 00:12:50.557 regarding the reaction to the Vietnam war. And whereas we had some 00:12:50.590 --> 00:12:55.337 students who were really involved from the start, a number of other 00:12:55.370 --> 00:13:02.807 students really became involved. So, um, Prior to 1970, we would have 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:05.106 protests 00:13:05.139 --> 00:13:10.207 actually. We had some marches through the streets bordering the campus. 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:18.240 And uh, what really capped off all the protests was in 19 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:27.740 1970, 1970. Ah President Nixon indicated we were going into cambodia that 00:13:28.779 --> 00:13:33.037 one event happened. The second event that happened then there were four 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:37.067 student deaths at Kent State University over the protests. That was the 00:13:37.100 --> 00:13:42.287 second event. And then later in the week, Jackson State University, two 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:50.320 students died uh, in, in protests and what was happening on our campus. We 00:13:50.470 --> 00:13:58.356 had a number of protests to begin with. But there were particular volatile 00:13:58.389 --> 00:14:06.389 periods during this time, the right after the Kent state killings, we had 00:14:06.610 --> 00:14:12.067 a big rally, they're the fountain and we had a speaker's podium and we had 00:14:12.100 --> 00:14:19.407 a professor that stood up and called for a shutdown of the university. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:25.386 And that was very surprising. And we must have had probably or at least 00:14:25.419 --> 00:14:29.526 1000 individuals out there that evening when it called for a shutdown. We 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:33.976 had our student student body president that then got up on the podium and 00:14:34.009 --> 00:14:38.276 asked whoever was there, all the students, you know, to keep the calm to 00:14:38.309 --> 00:14:44.967 keep the peace. And so we knew the next day that we were going to have all 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:51.087 kinds of chaos and protesting and whatever. And I need to digress here and 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:55.606 talk about one individual. We had a campus police chief by name of john 00:14:55.639 --> 00:15:02.407 Duffy and john would be out on them almost all the days and a lot of his 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:07.376 campus police were out out there too because we would have protests and uh 00:15:07.409 --> 00:15:12.417 we were aware that some universities have been shut down already. So there 00:15:12.450 --> 00:15:17.106 was a lot of volatility in the air, but we were really getting ready for 00:15:17.139 --> 00:15:24.297 the next day and john Duffy would often talk to a lot of the protesters, 00:15:24.330 --> 00:15:29.437 became friends with the protesters and I remember watching him several 00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:34.736 occasions, some of the major protesters would come up to him and say john 00:15:34.769 --> 00:15:38.266 you know, uh my wife just had a baby. Are you gonna come out and see the 00:15:38.299 --> 00:15:43.537 baby or you haven't been out to lunch with us lately? So john had that 00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:48.016 kind of relationship and he had a very calming effect. And prior to the 00:15:48.049 --> 00:15:50.937 major demonstrations are marched through the streets, whether it be 00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:58.606 through Apache, boulevard or rural or mill avenue, we would get together 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:02.386 with john talked with the protesters, go over the parameters. Well, we 00:16:02.419 --> 00:16:06.376 weren't prepared for the next day after the one evening where the 00:16:06.409 --> 00:16:09.866 professor called for a shutdown at the university and by this time some 00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:12.407 universities have been shut down already and we were getting their 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:17.106 students coming to Arizona because their universities were shut down. Well 00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:22.726 , we had what was called the flagpole incident and that flagpole is no 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:27.587 longer there, but it used to be a visitor's parking lot and there was a 00:16:27.620 --> 00:16:34.087 bed of flowers surrounding the flagpole. We must have had 3000 Individuals 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:39.366 assembled around that 3-4,000 assembled around that flagpole and the 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:43.026 governor at the time had proclaimed that there would be no lowering of the 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:48.067 flag to half mast. And so there was john Duffy and and he knew a lot of 00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:53.976 these protesters and it was getting very volatile and john put his job on 00:16:54.009 --> 00:16:59.717 the line and lowered the flag to half mast and that really averted a major 00:16:59.750 --> 00:17:06.967 , a bit of disruption, perhaps violence. We learned later that the 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.207 National Guard was in the armory right right next to Sun Devil Stadium. 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.937 The old armory. We hadn't known that at all, would have probably been a 00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:19.056 little more anxious had we known that? Because you always try to keep the 00:17:19.089 --> 00:17:22.516 off campus police off the campus when you have these things to let your 00:17:22.549 --> 00:17:29.336 own police force deal with it and students affairs deal with it. But That 00:17:29.369 --> 00:17:33.806 was one of the most volatile times that I, that I can remember in, in the 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:41.536 70s. But following that then we had Some of the major protesters at the 00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:46.566 Democratic Convention in Chicago in 1968. They became known as the Chicago 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:54.476 seven. We had jerry Rubin, um, Tom Hayden, a number of these other major 00:17:54.509 --> 00:17:59.457 figures come on our campus and they were holding a rally in Old Goodman 00:17:59.490 --> 00:18:07.490 Stadium and this was called the hard hat rally because we had all these 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:10.796 construction workers that had been working on buildings that had real 00:18:10.829 --> 00:18:17.806 strong feelings, you know about protesters. We had the, 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.887 a number of individuals training to be pilots out at Williams Air Force 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:28.546 base. They all came together on a sunday afternoon. And uh, so what you 00:18:28.579 --> 00:18:32.597 had and, and we had the highway, the Highway Patrolman, they were lining 00:18:32.630 --> 00:18:34.707 both 00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:41.566 both lines. I mean the goal lines, We must have had 50 75 highway 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:46.117 patrolman there, Our staff, student affairs staff, all of them were out 00:18:46.150 --> 00:18:52.306 there and we had our residence hall staff pretty well split up into teams 00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:56.217 and what we had, we had a number of protesters with the flags, so to the 00:18:56.250 --> 00:19:01.357 bottoms of their pants out there, we had the loudspeaker and these 00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:06.036 speakers tom Hayden and jerry Rubin that were well, well known. And 00:19:06.069 --> 00:19:09.397 essentially, we had the hard hats and we had the ones coming out from 00:19:09.430 --> 00:19:15.917 Williams Air Force base chasing these protesters around the field and our 00:19:15.950 --> 00:19:22.526 staff dr hamm our advice actually, he was dean of students said, uh, he 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:25.447 was out there. I was out there, we had a residence hall staff out there 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:30.496 and we were running around trying to keep these groups from convening and 00:19:30.529 --> 00:19:38.529 intervening and we didn't have any major injuries, most of all of us, what 00:19:39.750 --> 00:19:43.417 does this in our job description? Because we had never done this before 00:19:43.450 --> 00:19:46.937 trying to intervene. But There were two times that were probably the most 00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:52.217 volatile during the 70s. Um, And well, and we did have some volatile times 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:58.256 during the Iran hostage situation 79, but we were able to get through 00:19:58.289 --> 00:20:05.316 those those times without a, without damage to property, without personal 00:20:05.349 --> 00:20:12.086 injury. And uh, all considered, we felt pretty good that we came through 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:16.677 much better than a number of the other campuses, but There were some other 00:20:16.710 --> 00:20:21.736 Eras, other phenomena during the 70s. I mentioned the Iranian hostage 00:20:21.769 --> 00:20:25.627 situation that went on a couple of years and we had an area called the 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:31.306 West Hall lawn that was between Wilson Hall and Matthews Center where, 00:20:31.339 --> 00:20:35.746 well Matthew's Center was where our dean of students office was and also 00:20:35.779 --> 00:20:39.177 the vice president for student affairs before we moved but would have a 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:43.826 number of demonstrations out there. Most of the demonstrations and 00:20:43.859 --> 00:20:49.736 protests regarding the Iran situation occurred on West Hall line. But we 00:20:49.769 --> 00:20:56.437 got through those. But then we had the movements with our black students 00:20:56.470 --> 00:21:01.127 are minority student coalitions and this was pretty much in response to an 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.937 under representation of ethnic minority students in higher education is 00:21:04.970 --> 00:21:09.516 happening all throughout the country. But we had the black student union 00:21:09.549 --> 00:21:15.746 in the early 70s, they formed, they were very active. Then following that 00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:20.867 we had the hispanic students and that group formed. They were very, very 00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:25.927 active. And then we had the native american students. They had several 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:29.796 speakers come on campus. One was Russell means that was the head of ames 00:21:29.829 --> 00:21:35.687 american indian movement. So we had all of this student activism Taking 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:41.276 place in the 70s. And that there were some good results from, you know, 00:21:41.309 --> 00:21:43.967 some of the 00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:47.627 some of these activities by our minority student coalitions because later 00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:52.857 on a number of programs formed that were responding to the needs of member 00:21:52.890 --> 00:21:59.177 of tutorial programs. But the 70s were they were, those were the years, 00:21:59.210 --> 00:22:03.367 they were exciting, interesting. That's really where, you know, when I 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:09.637 come into this job and I go through all of that. And uh we had, 00:22:09.670 --> 00:22:13.986 fortunately we had a campus police director, john Duffy that had the kind 00:22:14.019 --> 00:22:17.877 of relationship with these protesters that he did. Our vice president who 00:22:17.910 --> 00:22:24.097 became vice president fires George ham. He, yeah, who was involved in a 00:22:24.130 --> 00:22:28.697 lot of our strategies and dealing with these. And but it was a difficult 00:22:28.730 --> 00:22:34.607 period for the, for the campus during that year but 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.836 we wanted no property damage. We wanted no injury. We want to know, shut 00:22:38.869 --> 00:22:42.637 down at the university and all of those things. Well, we had some trampled 00:22:42.670 --> 00:22:48.387 flowerbeds, you know, during the uh, that one incident where john Duffy 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:53.417 lowered the flag to half mast. But that was an educational period for us. 00:22:53.450 --> 00:22:59.457 You are staff were out on the mall probably 00:22:59.490 --> 00:23:04.907 In the spring maybe from seven o'clock till eight or 9:00 at night. 00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:08.687 Usually these protests would end up over at old main park, which was 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:16.720 symbolic as we still had ROTC then but exciting times. 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.917 Um what did you what did you what did you want to then? After Student 00:23:25.950 --> 00:23:33.486 Affairs? Well, I became dean of students in 1972 and I had faculty ranks 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:40.667 so I would teach and serve on graduate committees but dr ham then became 00:23:40.700 --> 00:23:46.056 vice president. Student Affairs. So when I became dean of Students, we we 00:23:46.089 --> 00:23:53.006 moved from Matthew's Center and we moved in, well there was before we 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.476 moved into our student services building that hadn't been built yet. We 00:23:56.509 --> 00:24:03.137 were over in the student union in the lower level. But I think what was 00:24:03.170 --> 00:24:09.357 taking place a lot after that time was really a lot of program development 00:24:09.390 --> 00:24:15.236 programs we now have today that are still in existence and 00:24:15.269 --> 00:24:18.506 several interesting 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:22.536 and several interesting things regarding our getting a student service 00:24:22.569 --> 00:24:27.167 building and a student recreation center. These became really highlights 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:34.187 for for student affairs and the student recreation center. The student 00:24:34.220 --> 00:24:37.996 services building happened when we had a vice president by name of dr 00:24:38.029 --> 00:24:45.947 Asher Doctor Betty Asher and we had the student body officers and myself 00:24:45.980 --> 00:24:51.056 and several others went to visit campuses to look at what were some of the 00:24:51.089 --> 00:24:54.367 really good student recreation centers in the country. So we took our 00:24:54.400 --> 00:25:00.467 student officers, two University Cal Berkeley to UCLA where they had the 00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:06.776 john wooden recreation center and um also to university Oregon. And we 00:25:06.809 --> 00:25:12.197 were very impressed with U. C. L. A. Their recreation center. So we came 00:25:12.230 --> 00:25:16.006 back and we said we have to get this architect that designed that facility 00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:21.347 because the use of color and the use of glass and openness really 00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:27.937 impressed us. And at the time we had wanted a student rec center for a 00:25:27.970 --> 00:25:34.387 long time but we we weren't making much progress and our intramural club 00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:40.117 sports director keith Jacobson heard the University of Arizona was going 00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:45.407 to the border regions for a proposal to have a student rec center. Well he 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:50.197 I called myself and I checked with our vice president of student affairs 00:25:50.230 --> 00:25:54.427 and through student government, they got a referendum ready and we got in 00:25:54.460 --> 00:26:01.177 at the same time that university Arizona did for the rec center. And uh so 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:05.877 that got through and then we had a committee to select the people of the 00:26:05.910 --> 00:26:10.677 architects to do this. And keith Jacobson gave me a call and said they're 00:26:10.710 --> 00:26:14.066 making decision today but they're selecting a different architect than the 00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:19.806 one that did the john wooden rec rec center. And his name was David brody. 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:24.496 And so I called Dr Asher a vice president who called the president and we 00:26:24.529 --> 00:26:28.707 ended up with the right with the architect that we needed. They just did a 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:33.187 splendid job. And anybody that's seen that student rec center is you know 00:26:33.220 --> 00:26:37.367 it's it's just not used by students who used by staff for receptions. 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:42.137 Everything else, the student services building that happened while Dr 00:26:42.170 --> 00:26:48.826 Asher was was here and she really led the initiative for for us to get 00:26:48.859 --> 00:26:53.667 that. So we went back to several campuses to take a look at their student 00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:56.937 services building. One was Bowling street, Bowling green State University 00:26:56.970 --> 00:27:03.976 where I started out and it was they had a lot of open space and a lot of 00:27:04.009 --> 00:27:09.137 glass. It probably was not energy efficient but we went there, I went to 00:27:09.170 --> 00:27:14.726 Michigan state and then the University of Miami and Ohio, so various ones 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:19.286 of us gave recommendations and there were a number of people that were 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:23.617 involved in getting a new student services building. But those two 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:27.326 buildings getting completed, I think that was the highlight for a number 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:35.266 of us in in student affairs. And Um I I should add I worked under three 00:27:35.299 --> 00:27:42.447 vice presidents. The first was George ham who hired me and who was a 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:48.707 mentor and had really great visions, always saw the larger picture ended 00:27:48.740 --> 00:27:51.707 up in universe texas at 00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:56.786 Tyler is president, the second vice president, Dr Betty Asher and she made 00:27:56.819 --> 00:28:01.107 a number of contributions to student affairs. She was here during the 00:28:01.140 --> 00:28:05.066 building of those two buildings, student rec center and student student 00:28:05.099 --> 00:28:08.516 services building. And the third vice president worked for was dr 00:28:08.549 --> 00:28:14.796 Wilkinson, Christine Wilkinson and She, well the other two became 00:28:14.829 --> 00:28:20.306 presidents and other universities. Uh Dr Wilkinson 00:28:20.339 --> 00:28:23.157 could have been president at any number of major universities from my 00:28:23.190 --> 00:28:31.190 viewpoint. But um I served under her for a number of years and in terms of 00:28:31.740 --> 00:28:37.496 a person that could consume volumes of work, Do three jobs at one time 00:28:37.529 --> 00:28:42.597 that that was Christine and I think she would have taken a presidency 00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:48.107 someplace else had she not had the ties to her family here in Arizona, but 00:28:48.140 --> 00:28:50.776 today I think she's doing three jobs, she's a director of alumni 00:28:50.809 --> 00:28:54.957 association, she's senior vice president and she's also the secretary to 00:28:54.990 --> 00:29:00.937 the board. So I felt that I was very, very fortunate and uh working for 00:29:00.970 --> 00:29:06.177 these people because all three had vision. All three added immeasurably to 00:29:06.210 --> 00:29:10.127 what we have today in student affairs. All through, all three were 00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:15.647 different and brought their own skills and talents, you know, to the 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:22.076 position. I also had the pleasure to work for six different presidents and 00:29:22.109 --> 00:29:28.496 each added ah considerably to where we are today. I haven't served under, 00:29:28.529 --> 00:29:32.486 I never served under President Crow, but I understand that he's taking 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:39.637 things to a new level. Who's your friend, who was your favorite? Ah you 00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:46.006 know, I I would have to say laddie court um laddie, 00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:53.427 I think Larry was a reminder to most of us um of how you treat people and 00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:59.117 how you make people feel their values. Um and I saw him on the mall a 00:29:59.150 --> 00:30:05.316 number of times. First of all, he never forgot a name and uh I I think the 00:30:05.349 --> 00:30:10.437 groundskeepers or the landscapers or custodial people, they was high on 00:30:10.470 --> 00:30:16.526 his priority scale as you know, the top people and he had a sense of calm 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:22.586 about him. I, we had some student protests in the student union and with 00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:30.137 our black student union And so he convened the group in one room and I 00:30:30.170 --> 00:30:34.167 went up to join them because that was one of my responsibilities, student 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:39.407 conduct and I walked in there and by the time I got there, I think he 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:43.566 already had the trust level of all these african american students and 00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:49.717 there was a sense of calm and so on. A number of measures, we had a number 00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:55.697 of really good presence. But on a number of any measures he was the one 00:30:55.730 --> 00:31:03.506 that it was really a good reminder I think to all of us about humanity and 00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:09.637 and that. So what classes did you take? Um I taught in the higher 00:31:09.670 --> 00:31:13.597 education um department in the college education and the counseling 00:31:13.630 --> 00:31:18.897 psychology. My faculty rank was counseling psychology and I had come here 00:31:18.930 --> 00:31:23.286 earlier actually interviewing for a position to be a faculty member and 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:27.826 then perhaps on the side startup and learning diagnostic clinic. And I'm 00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:30.457 glad that one didn't work out. I'm glad it did go to the direction that 00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:37.917 went. But I taught some student personal courses um 00:31:37.950 --> 00:31:42.016 in higher education, constant psychology courses and I enjoyed the 00:31:42.049 --> 00:31:48.286 teaching but I might teach one course a semester or one course a year and 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.397 I would serve on doctoral and master's committees working with master and 00:31:52.430 --> 00:31:56.467 doctoral candidates. I I did enjoy that too. Did you ever get involved in 00:31:56.500 --> 00:32:04.207 any research? Uh No not not specifically. I I did a research 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:12.240 my the first vice president dr hamm was he was With a group of probably 20 00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:16.707 vice presidents throughout the United States and the one year that the 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:23.347 vice president's came to a sus campus. I in advance. I put together a a 00:32:23.380 --> 00:32:28.036 survey of all the all the major issues in student affairs that would 00:32:28.069 --> 00:32:34.006 affect vice president for student affairs. And I had about probably a 200 00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:39.076 question questionnaire I sent out to these vice presidents. They sent the 00:32:39.109 --> 00:32:45.407 vice president's there results back to me. I put it in a report, final 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:51.157 report. So by the time they got here they had the answers to a lot of the 00:32:51.190 --> 00:32:55.897 things that get discussed only they could discuss them in more detail and 00:32:55.930 --> 00:33:01.707 go over the whys and wherefores and that. But that was the actually the 00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:08.197 most research I did. I frankly I felt my main job was full time 00:33:08.230 --> 00:33:12.457 administration and being a dean of students and later on a social vice 00:33:12.490 --> 00:33:16.437 president, student Affairs and um I would go to all the professional 00:33:16.470 --> 00:33:21.857 conferences but I thought that was my main job and I didn't take much time 00:33:21.890 --> 00:33:29.890 on research other than that. Is there a special event that stands out? 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:41.240 I think other special events kind of relate to associated students. 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:45.536 It was really kind of like a family up there. You would walk up there and 00:33:45.569 --> 00:33:50.036 you didn't only have the student body office of the president But you had 00:33:50.069 --> 00:33:55.617 around 80 different student positions. Many of them were volunteer. So 00:33:55.650 --> 00:33:58.927 you'd walk up in the Associated students offices or you go to a student 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:03.667 senate meter executive committee meeting and first of all there's a nice 00:34:03.700 --> 00:34:09.206 balance to what I did, but that's what I really enjoyed doing. And the 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:15.467 second thing I enjoyed at the start of the year, we would have retreats at 00:34:15.500 --> 00:34:20.486 Tana Zona and that was really, I really enjoyed those because you get to 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:24.526 know all the students are student foundation went there, our leadership 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.827 scholarship recipients of program I was part of at the start they went 00:34:29.860 --> 00:34:37.517 there because she had the associated students and it was a great 00:34:37.550 --> 00:34:42.146 experience for everybody there. And I would try to, by the time I got back 00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:46.316 I would try to have memorized the names sometimes I wouldn't always, but 00:34:46.349 --> 00:34:49.206 it's always fun to meet someone on the mall and be able to come by their 00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:54.907 first name. But I remember those treats retreats and I remember all the 00:34:54.940 --> 00:35:01.557 outstanding students and uh student government that, that I worked with 00:35:01.590 --> 00:35:07.037 and what what really stands out is to look back, look now as to what they 00:35:07.070 --> 00:35:11.776 have accomplished. I mean it was wasn't only associated students but we 00:35:11.809 --> 00:35:17.697 worked with student organizations and we had any number of groups that we 00:35:17.730 --> 00:35:21.997 got to know. So that's why I kind of considered, you know, dean of 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:25.626 students position is an ideal job because you've met and worked with 00:35:25.659 --> 00:35:33.066 faculty met with students. You can be mentors that stood out. Um, I think 00:35:33.099 --> 00:35:37.827 some of the early developments 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:41.396 in student programming, you know, that that stands out 11 in particular 00:35:41.429 --> 00:35:47.106 was our disability resources center where we started with one person and 00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:52.907 it's ready developed today and I think overall, first of all I had just a 00:35:52.940 --> 00:36:00.497 outstanding staff to work with and what what happened was a result of 00:36:00.530 --> 00:36:03.336 students being involved because students are involved in most of the 00:36:03.369 --> 00:36:09.467 planning along with the staff. But well I guess the other thing that 00:36:09.500 --> 00:36:13.747 really stands out is seeing the completion of the student rec center and 00:36:13.780 --> 00:36:17.646 seeing seeing the completion of the student services building and a 00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:21.247 student rec center that wouldn't have happened 00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:25.727 without this one person keith Jacobson that was working there and alerted 00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:30.617 to the fact that university Arizona was going forward to the regions and 00:36:30.650 --> 00:36:33.787 then he alerted us to the fact that we weren't going to get the architect 00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:38.927 we got. Um but those are the things that kind of stand out in my, in my 00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:44.697 memory, is there a special person that you remember? 00:36:44.730 --> 00:36:47.197 Yeah, 00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:50.447 well there there are several 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:56.356 George hamm was the one that hired me and he was really my mentor. Uh I 00:36:56.389 --> 00:37:02.157 still keep up with him today, he set the Framework the groundwork for what 00:37:02.190 --> 00:37:09.296 happened in student affairs back in the early 70s. Um another person was 00:37:09.329 --> 00:37:14.356 uh well I mentioned earlier was Bernie Jackson um uh if anyone wanted to 00:37:14.389 --> 00:37:18.657 have a good day, just go up and visit with Bernie and I would see people 00:37:18.690 --> 00:37:23.117 from the College of Education uh come over to talk with Bernie, I mean 00:37:23.150 --> 00:37:27.376 faculty just just to have a good day and he had that, that kind of 00:37:27.409 --> 00:37:33.416 presence, he was a minister also on the side. So like I said, everybody 00:37:33.449 --> 00:37:37.947 would need a Bernie Jackson on campus. Then we had a consulate service 00:37:37.980 --> 00:37:44.867 director, his name is Tom cummings and well neither Tom nor Bernie are 00:37:44.900 --> 00:37:51.876 still living but tom if we're ever interviewing candidates major positions 00:37:51.909 --> 00:37:55.037 , I would always have the candidate go over and meet with Tom cummings 00:37:55.070 --> 00:38:02.057 because his insights and his understanding of life and his ability to put 00:38:02.090 --> 00:38:08.387 things into perspective. I, I always really admired as a matter of fact, 00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:11.376 Each, each year when he was director of contact service, he was there 00:38:11.409 --> 00:38:15.967 about 10 years as a director, Probably 10% of our students that come in to 00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:21.037 see counselors probably have some degree of depression in all of those 00:38:21.070 --> 00:38:27.347 years and we would do follow up, uh there was never one students that ever 00:38:27.380 --> 00:38:34.197 took his or her own life and one of the more difficult jobs but kind of 00:38:34.230 --> 00:38:37.887 rewarding jobs I had, 00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:45.920 I would notify parents when their son or daughter had died and uh we 00:38:46.940 --> 00:38:52.356 worked with our campus ministry, we had campus interfaith council and 00:38:52.389 --> 00:38:57.907 would make contact with the parents, we would meet them at the airport, we 00:38:57.940 --> 00:39:02.077 would have a car for them, we would put them up at a holiday inn, we would 00:39:02.110 --> 00:39:05.186 take them over to the student health service. If well first of all the 00:39:05.219 --> 00:39:11.126 parents would come on campus and in shock and a total big campus and take 00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:15.747 him over to the student health service if any medication was needed and 00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:20.186 take care of all the details and then we would align our campus ministers 00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:26.717 regarding the religious faith up with him. So by the time they left campus 00:39:26.750 --> 00:39:33.847 not that they'd ever have closure, they at least felt that um someone 00:39:33.880 --> 00:39:37.836 cared you know about about their son and we had a lot of the services in 00:39:37.869 --> 00:39:42.586 Danforth Chapel and some of the stained glass windows that are there today 00:39:42.619 --> 00:39:48.017 were donated by my parents. Um Whereas that was one of the more difficult 00:39:48.050 --> 00:39:53.617 jobs. That was one of the probably purist purest helping relationships 00:39:53.650 --> 00:40:01.537 probably when one could have. So ah but I took pride in uh in our the 00:40:01.570 --> 00:40:05.776 university of being able to offer that to two parents. Do you lose many 00:40:05.809 --> 00:40:13.506 students or not? Yes. Uh I don't know what it is today or this this year 00:40:13.539 --> 00:40:20.816 last year but we would have 02-4 students that would die. I mean with a 00:40:20.849 --> 00:40:25.077 large campus such as we are I mean We would take on all the problems of 00:40:25.110 --> 00:40:30.456 the city because I mean we're over 50,000 now. But yes out of that 00:40:30.489 --> 00:40:36.977 population we would use lose some. We would always be worried there during 00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:41.697 final test periods because students can really be stressed out during that 00:40:41.730 --> 00:40:48.166 time. And that was another ah offering that are counseling service was was 00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:53.577 able to provide. 00:40:53.610 --> 00:40:58.876 I lost track. Um 00:40:58.909 --> 00:41:04.486 Department self excellent. Well thank you. Is there a notable achievement 00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:07.477 ? 00:41:07.510 --> 00:41:10.126 The student? Right. Let me go back and ask you a question about the 00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:13.876 student. Right um 00:41:13.909 --> 00:41:18.497 Is that where your office is located? The office now is located in our 00:41:18.530 --> 00:41:24.796 student services building? And we were in Matthews Center probably for 15 00:41:24.829 --> 00:41:31.206 years earlier. Yes. In an overview of the university, what you believe is 00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:38.816 the most interesting achievement? Well, a what we have to think a moment, 00:41:38.849 --> 00:41:46.849 but I I think one of them major achievements is here, the largest 00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:51.477 university in the country or at least multi campus. 00:41:51.510 --> 00:41:57.787 Uh We've increased our diversity, ethnic diversity many times are 00:41:57.820 --> 00:42:04.916 significantly with faculty and students. We've increased the quality of 00:42:04.949 --> 00:42:12.949 our students. Ah We take a look at our medallion merit awards and it's 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.717 Tremendously escalated. I think we're number four or 5 in the country in 00:42:16.750 --> 00:42:22.017 terms of having the most most national merit awardees. And I read on the 00:42:22.050 --> 00:42:26.977 inside, I get the insight Now weekly we surpassed some of the major ivy 00:42:27.010 --> 00:42:29.267 league schools. 00:42:29.300 --> 00:42:36.436 I I think that's when we reached research one status. So we've become the 00:42:36.469 --> 00:42:42.697 largest but we haven't sacrificed or we haven't seen a diminishing of the 00:42:42.730 --> 00:42:45.816 quality of our students. In fact the quality has increased and the 00:42:45.849 --> 00:42:52.719 diversity has increased. I think that's a that's a major major achievement. 00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:56.400 Remember form the question since you have three campuses and going to have 00:42:58.769 --> 00:43:02.967 four campuses. Now. How did you deal with the student life issues that you 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:08.106 had just having one on campus? How do you, how did you don't bring that 00:43:08.139 --> 00:43:13.767 out to the other campuses? Well at the time? And I I should mention I was 00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:18.916 one of the, one of my satisfactions obviously was going to to other 00:43:18.949 --> 00:43:25.787 campuses during the early periods or transitional periods, but we had 00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.186 through our vice president of student affairs, the coordination was done 00:43:30.219 --> 00:43:34.066 through the vice president of student affairs out to the three campuses 00:43:34.099 --> 00:43:39.617 and when I went out to A S. U. West, it was a transitional period for 00:43:39.650 --> 00:43:45.026 student affairs. I spent about one year there. Um That was a great 00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:49.276 experience for me, I I really enjoyed it a lot of satisfaction and then I 00:43:49.309 --> 00:43:53.436 had the opportunity to go to what was then known as A S. U. East Williams 00:43:53.469 --> 00:43:58.506 Air Force Base, it's now known as the polytechnic campus and I was there 00:43:58.539 --> 00:44:02.367 heading up student affairs and and a part of the startup of student 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.626 affairs there, but all those other two campuses, there was a coordination 00:44:07.659 --> 00:44:12.666 back to the main campus through and dr Wilkinson was the vice president 00:44:12.699 --> 00:44:19.307 then, so um we were always in alignment, you know, with what the goals 00:44:19.340 --> 00:44:24.387 were, what the missions were. Uh we had a different student clientele at 00:44:24.420 --> 00:44:30.736 each of these campuses, but Mhm I don't think there was anything lost in 00:44:30.769 --> 00:44:37.570 the process of With these other two campuses, at least in student affairs. 00:44:40.289 --> 00:44:42.289 Were there any problems that you encountered during your career? 00:44:45.590 --> 00:44:51.756 You know, one of the large problems in the 60s or 70s, the 80s and 90's 00:44:51.789 --> 00:44:56.046 was under representation of our ethnic minority students, not just that, 00:44:56.079 --> 00:45:03.287 but faculty staff. And uh we went through some trying periods back in the 00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:09.497 70s. When I mentioned the some of the ethnic minority movements, these 00:45:09.530 --> 00:45:12.706 different coalitions formed, 00:45:12.739 --> 00:45:18.697 they were trying to address some of their concerns. It might be well not 00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:24.086 just under representation, but financial aids employment. And I think a 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:28.767 number of good things came out of that um because a number of programs 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:35.557 were implemented to respond to those particular interests and needs and 00:45:35.590 --> 00:45:39.637 The minority student coalition. Well, one thing our dean of students 00:45:39.670 --> 00:45:43.586 office was doing early on through a doctor carter, who then was her 00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:50.577 assistant dean, later became dean of Students. We formulated a number of 00:45:50.610 --> 00:45:54.106 diversity programs, cultural diversity programs and worked with the 00:45:54.139 --> 00:45:58.347 minority student coalitions. I think that was one thing that good that 00:45:58.380 --> 00:46:02.686 came out of it. We had a campus environment team that addressed these 00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:10.316 issues campus-wide and that was a really plus. But I think the end result 00:46:10.349 --> 00:46:14.546 is through these coalitions. 00:46:14.579 --> 00:46:19.097 I think progress was made a lot faster than it might have been made 00:46:19.130 --> 00:46:24.146 otherwise and it needed to be made because there was under representation 00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:28.086 in a number of areas. And I haven't seen the recent statistics, but I know 00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:33.367 the university has really gained substantially in the number of ethnic 00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:38.956 minority student enrollees, uh, and faculty hires and staff hires, not 00:46:38.989 --> 00:46:43.836 just in, but in some of the higher level positions. And that's healthy for 00:46:43.869 --> 00:46:49.606 a university. And, and I'm sure the university feels good about that, but 00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.566 that was one of the major issues 00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:59.356 that that we dealt with. And I think we dealt with it fair fairly well of 00:46:59.389 --> 00:47:07.389 all of your accomplishments, which has given you the most satisfaction. 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:13.526 You know, I I think to see, um, the quality of students that have come out 00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:18.427 of the university here, uh, let me give you an example of our career 00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:20.747 services. 00:47:20.780 --> 00:47:27.217 They, they have a number of career fairs yearly, they have a number of 00:47:27.250 --> 00:47:33.146 interviewers. Major corporations that come here. We are a prime recruiting 00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:38.206 source for the major, uh, corporations, companies, whether it's general 00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:42.586 dynamics, whether it's um, Packard, whether it's Proctor and Gamble, they 00:47:42.619 --> 00:47:49.206 conduct over Probably over 1700, well, probably over 1700 employers come 00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:54.307 on our campus yearly to interview. There are students and I think that's 00:47:54.340 --> 00:47:59.537 some indication of the quality of the students we have here. But one of my 00:47:59.570 --> 00:48:06.936 , I guess major satisfactions is too, have seen all of these students come 00:48:06.969 --> 00:48:12.677 through and then, uh, see how, how well they've done and, you know, I'm 00:48:12.710 --> 00:48:16.557 not singling out any students, but we've had student body presidents, 00:48:16.590 --> 00:48:21.787 Outstanding student body officers, Outstanding student organizations. I'll 00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:27.066 name one in particular. We have a hispanic business student association dr 00:48:27.099 --> 00:48:30.186 Lucia Levi's has been their advisor 00:48:30.219 --> 00:48:36.367 that has produced such positive employment experiences for the students 00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:41.296 just being a part of that. But we've had so many advisers on the campus 00:48:41.329 --> 00:48:46.947 that had been advisory and mentors to these student organizations and that 00:48:46.980 --> 00:48:52.537 is that's a really really a large plus for our our students to be able to 00:48:52.570 --> 00:48:57.436 be associated with that. What's your worst memory? 00:48:57.469 --> 00:49:04.217 You know, I I can't really think of a worse memory, you know, commented 00:49:04.250 --> 00:49:09.436 earlier one of my difficult more difficult tasks, but that was ultimately 00:49:09.469 --> 00:49:17.469 rewarding. But I I feel I've been fortunate to have an ideal position 00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:23.557 where I was able to call upon my earlier experiences and not everybody has 00:49:23.590 --> 00:49:27.927 the opportunity to interact with students and student groups and 00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:35.436 leadership groups and see the development take place. 00:49:35.469 --> 00:49:40.637 How did you change from your arrival until you retired? 00:49:40.670 --> 00:49:47.436 Uh Well the obvious thing is uh buildings and we have a university 00:49:47.469 --> 00:49:54.276 activity center, it's Wells Fargo Arena now. Um I get on campus from time 00:49:54.309 --> 00:50:00.416 to time, we're just proceeding at a very rapid pace. 00:50:00.449 --> 00:50:04.177 I I think to become the economic engine for Arizona, what's happening on 00:50:04.210 --> 00:50:09.847 on our campus. Um Obviously the different campuses, we have an A. S. U. 00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:14.717 West, we have a downtown campus now. We have the A. S. U. East which is 00:50:14.750 --> 00:50:22.356 now the polytechnic campus um To see the immense growth that's come here 00:50:22.389 --> 00:50:29.227 without sacrificing quality. I I think that's very remarkable. 00:50:29.260 --> 00:50:32.037 What kind of advice would you give young people in choosing their college 00:50:32.070 --> 00:50:34.727 and their career? 00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:39.526 Uh I think first of all go to the web pages of these universities that are 00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:43.967 interested in. There is so much information on the web pages. Do your 00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:49.896 homework, do your research, pick a university um That's a good fit for you 00:50:49.929 --> 00:50:56.617 , but pick a university where you're going to be able to be a part of 00:50:56.650 --> 00:51:01.816 campus life. Uh There's a lot to be learned that being in an organization 00:51:01.849 --> 00:51:07.006 where whether the officer, the leader of member working toward goals. 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:12.537 These are experiences that will suit students very well. The other thing I 00:51:12.570 --> 00:51:18.166 would say, once you get to a university get to career services very early 00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:23.447 start developing that resume. Start developing those references. There are 00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:26.736 a number of classes you take from professors and a student gets to the 00:51:26.769 --> 00:51:30.296 senior year and says gee I wish I'd asked this professor gotten to know 00:51:30.329 --> 00:51:35.217 him better in terms of a recommendation. But those kind of experiences on 00:51:35.250 --> 00:51:42.307 a campus outside the classroom um are very important to employers and I 00:51:42.340 --> 00:51:47.206 think a number of our students that have found that out. How did having 00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:52.327 the weapon internet impact your job? 00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.126 Well, it 00:51:55.159 --> 00:52:03.159 We didn't really have. I go back a few years. I I retired in 19 ah 99 June 00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:12.066 of 99 and a lot of the campuses didn't have their websites up but since 00:52:12.099 --> 00:52:18.006 then all I need to do is to plug into our website here at A. S. U. And see 00:52:18.039 --> 00:52:24.717 all the host of opportunities and to learn more about the university. Um 00:52:24.750 --> 00:52:30.617 information technology did in a general sense did impact our jobs hugely 00:52:30.650 --> 00:52:36.166 because it made our jobs much more easy ah and to be able to pull up data 00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:41.697 and collate data and do email. 00:52:41.730 --> 00:52:47.327 Of course that impacted I think every part of the campus, He retired from 00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:51.416 99. What are you doing now? 00:52:51.449 --> 00:52:57.197 Getting my by the end of the week, I go through my checklist and I'm not 00:52:57.230 --> 00:53:03.796 even halfway through it and I, I'm as busy now. Not as busy, but you hear 00:53:03.829 --> 00:53:07.807 this often, you know, how did I ever do everything, you know when I was 00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:13.037 working? But we waited 35 years to have grandchildren and now we have 00:53:13.070 --> 00:53:15.327 three 00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:22.146 and two of them are twins, about 20 months old. So we spend six or 7 eight 00:53:22.179 --> 00:53:30.179 trips up to Colorado each year and I get on campus from time to time. I'm 00:53:30.230 --> 00:53:35.186 busy and other other things and it's always nice to say stay connected 00:53:35.219 --> 00:53:38.986 with the university here, but I don't have spare time. I, I don't know 00:53:39.019 --> 00:53:43.677 what goes with all the time. So it's a hazard to set goals and to have a 00:53:43.710 --> 00:53:46.517 checklist even in the first place but not to reach them by the end of the 00:53:46.550 --> 00:53:51.776 week you say. Where did that we go? Thank you very much. Thank you. Is 00:53:51.809 --> 00:53:56.916 there anything else that you would like to add? Uh, I think you've covered 00:53:56.949 --> 00:54:01.907 it or I've covered it. I think I spent a lot of time on the student 00:54:01.940 --> 00:54:08.336 activism, but that was an important part of our history at, at Arizona 00:54:08.369 --> 00:54:14.887 State University in which um, it could have been a lot different the 00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:20.896 result, but our campus was never closed down like a number of other 00:54:20.929 --> 00:54:27.247 campuses and the student movements, some of the student activism among the 00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:32.327 ethnic minority student populations really, the result was a plus for the 00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:37.956 university in addressing a number of needs of the are different student 00:54:37.989 --> 00:54:44.287 groups. And I think it's evidence by our statistics today when, how the 00:54:44.320 --> 00:54:51.706 university has responded. How did the state press 00:54:51.739 --> 00:54:58.836 work with you? And it's a big part of the university? Mm hmm. You know, I 00:54:58.869 --> 00:55:04.807 don't think people realized the impact that a campus newspaper can have. 00:55:04.840 --> 00:55:12.840 Ah, a campus newspaper is an opinion shaper. And what comes out, 00:55:13.239 --> 00:55:18.916 a tremendous number of students read it. And I think some of our students 00:55:18.949 --> 00:55:23.927 in the positions that are in, they have no idea of the impact they can 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:29.956 have. And I talked about associated students quite a bit, but in meeting 00:55:29.989 --> 00:55:33.497 by the student officers, I, I used to say, you know, you're not going to 00:55:33.530 --> 00:55:38.206 realize how much influence you have until years later after you've 00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:46.037 graduated because in their particular case, you know, they had immediate 00:55:46.070 --> 00:55:49.617 access to the president to share whatever they wanted to do with the 00:55:49.650 --> 00:55:54.657 president. They had immediate access to the border regions and the border 00:55:54.690 --> 00:55:57.387 regions always wants to hear what students have to say about their 00:55:57.420 --> 00:56:02.517 experience. And so these two buddy, I think by the time they finished 00:56:02.550 --> 00:56:07.387 their uh term in office, they thought in retrospect, probably they had 00:56:07.420 --> 00:56:11.206 more influence than they ever realized they had. But they were opinion 00:56:11.239 --> 00:56:16.256 shapers, Student government's opinion shaper. The state press, a great 00:56:16.289 --> 00:56:21.727 training ground and a lot of those were journalism students And they shape 00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:26.296 opinions of, of a lot of our students. I mean, we some of our state press 00:56:26.329 --> 00:56:30.827 reporters became speech writers for the president of the United States one 00:56:30.860 --> 00:56:35.497 did and for the Vice President's um 00:56:35.530 --> 00:56:39.876 mm hmm. A number of them have gone on to a very successful careers. And uh 00:56:39.909 --> 00:56:45.836 , with the Republic and other newspapers, is there anyone editor that 00:56:45.869 --> 00:56:52.546 stands out in your mind? We had a number of successful editors um, while 00:56:52.579 --> 00:56:58.836 one of our editors ran for Governor, Lynn Munsil Len was editor, I I 00:56:58.869 --> 00:57:04.336 forget which year it was, but as we know, he didn't uh, and make it 00:57:04.369 --> 00:57:12.369 through. But uh gee we had, it's really difficult to single out any 00:57:13.610 --> 00:57:18.796 particular one because we've had a number of outstanding student editors. 00:57:18.829 --> 00:57:24.467 What was the international student program um that, you know, I didn't 00:57:24.500 --> 00:57:32.500 really speak to, that, That was in student student affairs and the program 00:57:33.139 --> 00:57:39.137 was located in student services building and represented all the different 00:57:39.170 --> 00:57:44.217 international students. Our chinese students were by and large, the 00:57:44.250 --> 00:57:47.626 largest student populations we had, but we had all these different student 00:57:47.659 --> 00:57:51.677 groups uh, in the international students. And each year they would hold an 00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:58.097 international affair out on West hall lawn and everybody would come around 00:57:58.130 --> 00:58:04.787 after class and would have to go through student health to make sure that 00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:12.820 safety standards and and all that were met. But mm hmm. They 00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:21.276 a issue was a very attractive campus for our international students 00:58:21.309 --> 00:58:23.387 internationally. 00:58:23.420 --> 00:58:28.727 So, but they provided services to the students. They mentored the students. 00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:32.686 They helped them form the different international student organizations. 00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:39.347 Um, They had hospitality host families and they provided a real service to 00:58:39.380 --> 00:58:47.380 our students. 00:58:49.889 --> 00:58:54.907 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, It's my 00:58:54.940 --> 00:58:58.967 pleasure. Thanks 00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:01.186 leon. 00:59:01.219 --> 00:59:05.086 When, when you first arrived on campus, I believe 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:08.486 with the primary 00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:14.847 concert, the area, they were, yes. Can you, can you address maybe some of 00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:19.686 your experiences or restore your, 00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:25.486 I mean, didn't associate students bring the rolling. 00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:32.287 Yes. Well, you know, I have to think on that one. Um, I think they did. 00:59:32.320 --> 00:59:40.066 They, they were getting revenue from the student concerts and then we had 00:59:40.099 --> 00:59:45.646 Arizona student association that started up And Asa represented all three 00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:50.686 campuses and the 00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:56.296 concert revenue. And that ability to sponsor concerts was given to Arizona 00:59:56.329 --> 01:00:02.776 student association and I didn't really agree with that at the time 01:00:02.809 --> 01:00:10.626 because mhm the concert revenue got got spread out but it it really 01:00:10.659 --> 01:00:15.836 preempted associated students from offering a number of the concerts now. 01:00:15.869 --> 01:00:23.006 Gammage Auditorium who's always done a tremendous job. They were through 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:28.986 their area, they were able to sponsor concerts as well. But at one time 01:00:29.019 --> 01:00:33.236 our Student Foundation, they were able to have one major concert a year 01:00:33.269 --> 01:00:37.336 that they would sponsor and they would get the scholarship revenue or they 01:00:37.369 --> 01:00:40.356 would get the revenue for scholarships for our leadership scholarship 01:00:40.389 --> 01:00:44.947 program and associated students. The revenue they got, they did it to 01:00:44.980 --> 01:00:52.980 supplement their budget and used it very very wisely but that the concert 01:00:54.409 --> 01:01:02.409 that area changed and I remember going to the border regions because 01:01:02.889 --> 01:01:10.889 there was a complaint about um the concert revenue and the one person that 01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:17.577 was doing that for asa 01:01:17.610 --> 01:01:20.477 there were some questionable 01:01:20.510 --> 01:01:26.477 actions as to where the revenue was going. And the regions I think when 01:01:26.510 --> 01:01:32.876 they learned that they tabled the motion and moved on 01:01:32.909 --> 01:01:39.916 well as to concerts. Associated students used to sponsor concerts. Our 01:01:39.949 --> 01:01:45.137 Student Foundation would get one concert a year, but there was really an 01:01:45.170 --> 01:01:50.727 outstanding concert program. I can remember in most of these concerts were 01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:55.577 in the activity center. Elvis Presley came to our campus. This was 01:01:55.610 --> 01:02:03.077 probably three or four months before he died and a number of the students 01:02:03.110 --> 01:02:07.557 were there, Associated students were there. I remember the governor coming 01:02:07.590 --> 01:02:12.307 down and in fact some of the concerts, it would be interesting. Everybody 01:02:12.340 --> 01:02:17.396 wanted to get good seats and associated students when they were in control 01:02:17.429 --> 01:02:22.686 of them of the concerts and sponsoring, they had some input on who got 01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:26.997 what kind of seats. But I remember the Governor coming to Elvis Presley's 01:02:27.030 --> 01:02:32.586 concert and of course the activity center was packed and that evening 01:02:32.619 --> 01:02:37.697 everybody could see that Elvis was struggling a little bit perspiring 01:02:37.730 --> 01:02:45.486 profusely, um taking his, his rap or whatever and his handkerchief wiping 01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:50.606 off his face so everybody could see that he was not in the form, he should 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:55.867 be frank. Sinatra came to the campus also and that was another tremendous 01:02:55.900 --> 01:03:02.367 concert. We had um packed place in the activity center, jonny Denver, I 01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:08.046 mean what kind of an experience for students, what kind of students get 01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:12.436 this kind of experience and most of the audience would would be our 01:03:12.469 --> 01:03:19.247 students and uh then the Rolling Stones, this was a major concert and Sun 01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:23.936 Devil Stadium that just rocked the stadium and I think people are still 01:03:23.969 --> 01:03:29.327 talking about it. Uh the movie with Barbra Streisand that was shot in 01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:34.767 Gammage Auditorium. So a issue was the 01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:41.747 host to a number of large commercial shot on the campus. Um large concerts 01:03:41.780 --> 01:03:46.166 are student foundation used to get the revenue from commercial shot on the 01:03:46.199 --> 01:03:49.727 campus. There was a ford motor come to commercial, they got revenue and 01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:54.367 they were putting their funds into our leadership scholarship program, But 01:03:54.400 --> 01:04:00.767 , and at one time, I mean our campus had a concert program. That was the 01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:03.956 envy of many, many campuses. 01:04:03.989 --> 01:04:08.217 Yeah. Hurricane 01:04:08.250 --> 01:04:16.250 and joan Sutherland concert. I missed that. Yeah. 01:04:17.289 --> 01:04:22.657 Right, okay. The fraternities and sororities, do they still have a big 01:04:22.690 --> 01:04:26.657 impact on campus as they did in earlier years? 01:04:26.690 --> 01:04:33.717 I don't think they do quite as much in the early years. They had 01:04:33.750 --> 01:04:39.657 considerable influence. Um, and we used to have more fraternities. We used 01:04:39.690 --> 01:04:45.807 to have more sororities, very positive experiences for our students and I 01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:50.137 haven't kept track of this in the last seven or eight years, but I think 01:04:50.170 --> 01:04:54.017 there are fewer fraternities and I think there are fewer sororities. Uh, 01:04:54.050 --> 01:04:59.736 this can be a tremendous experience for, uh, a young man, a young woman. 01:04:59.769 --> 01:05:04.327 Um, and when you look at the goals of all our fraternities and sororities 01:05:04.360 --> 01:05:10.057 , of course, one of the top goals is academics. Um, 01:05:10.090 --> 01:05:13.927 uh, there were some, of course, some fraternities, sororities much 01:05:13.960 --> 01:05:18.767 stronger than others, but most of young people coming out of fraternities 01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:24.407 and sororities were really, uh, appreciative of the experience they had as 01:05:24.440 --> 01:05:28.936 most universities know, some of the major donors to the universities come 01:05:28.969 --> 01:05:33.356 from those people that were in fraternities and sororities and had a real 01:05:33.389 --> 01:05:37.376 satisfying, successful experience. But I don't think the influence is 01:05:37.409 --> 01:05:44.227 quite as much as it used to be. Why do you, what do you think? Uh, I'm not 01:05:44.260 --> 01:05:47.057 sure, 01:05:47.090 --> 01:05:51.756 You know, I think students are so 01:05:51.789 --> 01:05:59.789 focused on succeeding doing well academically, um, employment, I think 01:06:01.409 --> 01:06:06.816 their focus is that it seems to me, we have well, let me give an example 01:06:06.849 --> 01:06:11.236 back in the student protest days, students, many, many students weren't 01:06:11.269 --> 01:06:15.456 that serious about school and didn't do with that well in school and 01:06:15.489 --> 01:06:21.126 didn't worry about the next job or worry about employment today. It's a 01:06:21.159 --> 01:06:27.686 bigger competitive world for those best jobs do well academically. And I 01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:33.037 think our students, uh there are other, our other alternatives to portrays 01:06:33.070 --> 01:06:40.146 it, sororities to have a meaningful campus life experience. So, I think 01:06:40.179 --> 01:06:45.436 the employment picture and and the pressure that they feel they want to do 01:06:45.469 --> 01:06:50.477 as well as their parents did, it's getting more difficult to get those 01:06:50.510 --> 01:06:56.146 good jobs 01:06:56.179 --> 01:06:58.747 here. 01:06:58.780 --> 01:07:04.486 I have a question for you. Ah you know, you've you've described in great 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:10.546 detail the Protest of of the 70s, 01:07:10.579 --> 01:07:17.046 we're we're approaching a situation in Iraq that's pretty similar. You see 01:07:17.079 --> 01:07:21.146 students becoming involved in that sort of thing. 01:07:21.179 --> 01:07:29.179 Uh Yes, Yeah. When um, when students here that 21,000 more troops are 01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:37.800 going to be sent over to Iraq, it hits home, um, and back in the student 01:07:39.780 --> 01:07:44.747 protest days, there were such strong feelings against the war in Vietnam, 01:07:44.780 --> 01:07:49.706 and it's not until sometimes that a war is over, that you reflect back and 01:07:49.739 --> 01:07:55.126 say, should we have been there? And I think there's a lot of doubt and a 01:07:55.159 --> 01:08:01.057 lot of skepticism regarding when that war is gonna end, how many more 01:08:01.090 --> 01:08:06.637 troops are we going to have to send over there? Um, is that a civil war? 01:08:06.670 --> 01:08:10.037 What are we doing in the middle of a civil war? Is there a political 01:08:10.070 --> 01:08:16.487 solution rather than a military solution? And back back then during the 01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:23.027 Vietnam war, you know, we, there we had selective service and students, 01:08:23.060 --> 01:08:29.937 we're being called into the military if their grades weren't weren't good. 01:08:29.970 --> 01:08:34.876 As a matter of fact, we at one time hired what was called a selective 01:08:34.909 --> 01:08:40.656 service advisor that was, who was advising students on their rights 01:08:40.689 --> 01:08:45.036 responsibilities. The person could not advise them one way or another, uh 01:08:45.069 --> 01:08:50.376 , had to be had to remain neutral. Uh, but that was a service that was 01:08:50.409 --> 01:08:57.307 really well used as a matter of fact, we had a, we got a grant from the to 01:08:57.340 --> 01:09:03.237 to employ a veteran's counselor in Matthew's Center in in the early days 01:09:03.270 --> 01:09:06.746 and any number of students were coming in, you know, to talk to that 01:09:06.779 --> 01:09:14.779 counselor regarding their particular chances of going into the military 01:09:16.069 --> 01:09:19.586 as to whether they'll get involved to the extent with the protests and 01:09:19.619 --> 01:09:23.437 demonstrations. 01:09:23.470 --> 01:09:31.470 I think what really triggered and catapulted the protests was what 01:09:31.569 --> 01:09:38.416 happened at Kent State and what happened at Jackson State and President 01:09:38.449 --> 01:09:46.449 Nixon in April of 70, it's said we're going to go into cambodia? So the 01:09:46.770 --> 01:09:51.147 concerns were starting there. But then when those students were killed on 01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:58.336 those campuses, that that was the event that really kicked it off? And as 01:09:58.369 --> 01:10:03.067 if there would be other events like that? Well, I'm not sure that kind of 01:10:03.100 --> 01:10:08.706 an event would be needed to galvanize all the feelings there are towards 01:10:08.739 --> 01:10:12.876 being over in Iraq. So, you think those feelings are here at the 01:10:12.909 --> 01:10:20.746 university? I mean, as far as I imagine uh that they are with with the 01:10:20.779 --> 01:10:28.347 students, um and it's such a difficult issue. You know, I think so many 01:10:28.380 --> 01:10:34.296 students are in a quandary. Well, what what is best when you're over there 01:10:34.329 --> 01:10:40.126 ? You need to support the troops and I don't think there's any doubt, but 01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:46.626 with 20 2000 or whatever it is, more individuals are going over to Iraq. 01:10:46.659 --> 01:10:48.727 Ah 01:10:48.760 --> 01:10:53.536 I I don't think that Congress cannot support that funding, you know, for 01:10:53.569 --> 01:10:57.126 that to happen. So 01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:02.666 the solutions and the answers are difficult because everybody's thinking, 01:11:02.699 --> 01:11:05.536 well, is there a political solution to this rather than a military 01:11:05.569 --> 01:11:08.626 solution? 01:11:08.659 --> 01:11:14.227 So it's not a black and white issue? And that probably has a number of 01:11:14.260 --> 01:11:18.847 students torn, you know, because you have really strong feelings among a 01:11:18.880 --> 01:11:24.296 number of people, we should be there? Well, the feeling no one wants to 01:11:24.329 --> 01:11:29.027 let our troops down. You know, that's the unanimous feeling we have to 01:11:29.060 --> 01:11:35.277 support the troops and one's emotions get caught up in in that also. So 01:11:35.310 --> 01:11:40.427 when when do they pull back 01:11:40.460 --> 01:11:45.387 leon you did comment on john Duffy helping on the campus and everything. 01:11:45.420 --> 01:11:51.156 You didn't mention the professor who wanted to have sort of stop 01:11:51.189 --> 01:11:55.227 everything on campus. 01:11:55.260 --> 01:12:00.817 It's okay. We we've had quite a few discourses on more stars. The first 01:12:00.850 --> 01:12:04.517 one. 01:12:04.550 --> 01:12:06.717 Yes, 01:12:06.750 --> 01:12:09.916 I thought it probably was. 01:12:09.949 --> 01:12:15.217 Yeah, I was out there that evening and I heard that and I thought boy we 01:12:15.250 --> 01:12:18.446 better get ready for tomorrow. 01:12:18.479 --> 01:12:24.067 And john Holman was our student body president then. And right after the 01:12:24.100 --> 01:12:29.256 professor made his comments, john got up on the podium and our speakers 01:12:29.289 --> 01:12:34.227 podiums by danforth chapel then and john implored the students to remain 01:12:34.260 --> 01:12:41.206 calm and remain peaceful for for the next day. And I give john a lot of 01:12:41.239 --> 01:12:46.416 credit for for doing that. 01:12:46.449 --> 01:12:52.517 1. 1 thing I didn't talk about in terms of phenomena was streaking. 01:12:52.550 --> 01:13:00.550 Um Are we still on paper? I I can comment um Back in 1973, 01:13:01.449 --> 01:13:05.817 oh in the Los Angeles area and some of the other campuses streaking was 01:13:05.850 --> 01:13:09.336 becoming a phenomenon. And so what was happening? A number of the 01:13:09.369 --> 01:13:13.296 universities, their students were trying to break records of how many 01:13:13.329 --> 01:13:17.656 students had strict, so we kind of knew sooner or later it was going to 01:13:17.689 --> 01:13:24.256 get to a shoe. So and and that it did. And usually the streaking would 01:13:24.289 --> 01:13:28.286 start at the fountain and the fountain was a gathering place for our 01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:32.916 students. I mean it's a lovely place to come and inspire the chapel. And 01:13:32.949 --> 01:13:40.949 um so this one day And it was, I think 1973 74 we're in a staff meeting 01:13:40.989 --> 01:13:43.826 with the vice president for student know as our dean of students at that 01:13:43.859 --> 01:13:48.166 time. George Hammond there, about the directors were there and we were 01:13:48.199 --> 01:13:52.927 going through our agenda and we heard this loud roar coming from the 01:13:52.960 --> 01:14:00.246 fountain and we had two secretaries in the, in the meeting taking notes 01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:05.366 and everybody in Matthew's center ran out. Because what was happening is 01:14:05.399 --> 01:14:09.817 this information would get out before this drinking would happen And when 01:14:09.850 --> 01:14:14.206 this drinking would take place all of a sudden we would see people in 01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:17.967 business attire from phoenix, you know, on campus to observe what was 01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:22.807 going on. But this one morning it was about mid morning we heard this 01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:27.887 large roar, so we go out to the fountain and the one for charity Around 01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:31.217 five or 6 of their members had streaked from the fountain had taken off 01:14:31.250 --> 01:14:35.746 their clothes. They put the clothes by the fountain and they streaked down 01:14:35.779 --> 01:14:41.057 the mall to the north of the mall toward Matthew's center. Well, their 01:14:41.090 --> 01:14:45.387 thought was, we'll make this quick, you know, and uh, we'll be out of here. 01:14:45.420 --> 01:14:50.147 Well, they got back to the fountain, they couldn't find their clothes 01:14:50.180 --> 01:14:53.777 and if they were smart, they would have had one of their members be 01:14:53.810 --> 01:14:58.517 responsible guarding their clothes, but that didn't happen. So then about 01:14:58.550 --> 01:15:04.416 two nights later, uh we had a an honors hall called mcclintock call it was 01:15:04.449 --> 01:15:08.467 a women's residence hall and I don't know how this happened, but our 01:15:08.500 --> 01:15:13.387 fraternities, several the fraternity's talked the women's residence hall 01:15:13.420 --> 01:15:17.046 that night the next night and streaking with them. So they started at the 01:15:17.079 --> 01:15:21.576 fountain and the fraternity's formed for attorney members formed a 01:15:21.609 --> 01:15:28.437 perimeter around the McLintock call women and they streaked down the mall 01:15:28.470 --> 01:15:34.046 and and then they came back and we must have had, well the word got out in 01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:40.076 advance, I mean we had several 1000 people looking on and so they knew 01:15:40.109 --> 01:15:45.217 they were going to make the news. And then I think the same night we had a 01:15:45.250 --> 01:15:49.616 Pentecostal group that was in danforth chapel 01:15:49.649 --> 01:15:55.706 and the doors were open and when the streaking took place some of the 01:15:55.739 --> 01:15:59.677 streakers ran into the chapel they just stayed momentarily because they 01:15:59.710 --> 01:16:04.196 kicked them out. They came, they came back out and during that time 01:16:04.229 --> 01:16:09.996 campuses were trying to take to break records of one another and you had 01:16:10.029 --> 01:16:13.946 One campus where they had 1200 streakers as University of Colorado. You 01:16:13.979 --> 01:16:19.656 had another campus University of Georgia had six or 700. Um you had others 01:16:19.689 --> 01:16:23.616 That had five or 600 and it was making the news nationally. So we knew it 01:16:23.649 --> 01:16:28.076 was going to happen at ASU. We didn't know in what form or how we kind of 01:16:28.109 --> 01:16:32.996 had an idea where it was going to start at the fountain and at the 01:16:33.029 --> 01:16:39.166 university of michigan dad streaking. But what happened there, the 01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:44.017 streaking formed a tradition And during the 90s they had what was called 01:16:44.050 --> 01:16:50.227 the naked mile And they would have over a 1000 students streaking. And 01:16:50.260 --> 01:16:56.296 this was an annual event. And so, uh, and and I have a friend that works 01:16:56.329 --> 01:17:02.156 there now hmm with campus police, but so what they did, they started 01:17:02.189 --> 01:17:07.956 filming the streaking and it appeared on the internet and so here's all 01:17:07.989 --> 01:17:13.006 these parents, you know, for turning in on the internet that seeing their 01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:17.496 sons and daughters. But anyway, it gradually 01:17:17.529 --> 01:17:21.177 diminished and diminished to the point where they don't have this annual 01:17:21.210 --> 01:17:26.107 event anymore, but it's only ended in the last year or two. But what would 01:17:26.140 --> 01:17:30.576 possess students from doing that? I'm not sure we had during that era. We 01:17:30.609 --> 01:17:38.027 had one student over a Swirl hall Who's his roommates bet him $50 that he 01:17:38.060 --> 01:17:46.060 wouldn't streak from Swirl hall ah up on the mall, over to Palo verde West. 01:17:46.390 --> 01:17:50.737 And at that time paloverde West was a women's hall. So he took up the bet 01:17:50.770 --> 01:17:55.086 by the time he reached the main campus and I happened to be up on campus 01:17:55.119 --> 01:17:59.267 that evening, By the time he reached the fountain, he must have had 200 01:17:59.300 --> 01:18:03.357 students following him over to the women's residence hall and he started 01:18:03.390 --> 01:18:09.546 climbing up the, well if one is familiar with the physical characteristics 01:18:09.579 --> 01:18:12.786 of the renaissance palace remain, you can climb up a little bit because 01:18:12.819 --> 01:18:16.777 there's a protrusion of the bricks out and he started climbing up and then 01:18:16.810 --> 01:18:22.727 campus police got there and he got down, but there was quite a crowd that 01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:27.626 had assembled by this time, But he did get to keep us $50. So I guess he 01:18:27.659 --> 01:18:31.866 was kind of a campus hero with some of his but is there? But that was an 01:18:31.899 --> 01:18:38.116 interesting phenomenon that passed fairly quickly. But we had streaking in 01:18:38.149 --> 01:18:45.937 front of some of the academic buildings as well and again and yes. Oh yeah 01:18:45.970 --> 01:18:49.946 , well it often takes place at athletic events and that's been 01:18:49.979 --> 01:18:57.979 historically, uh, an event that they try to make a big splash there. But 01:18:58.520 --> 01:19:04.527 it was difficult. I mean, from a student conduct standpoint. Um, we had to 01:19:04.560 --> 01:19:09.326 take a look at it as two indeed. Was it indecent exposure? What actually 01:19:09.359 --> 01:19:16.796 was it? And it was meant to be in good fun and we, we did call in some of 01:19:16.829 --> 01:19:22.586 the students to talk about, you know, the appropriateness of, of streaking. 01:19:22.619 --> 01:19:28.027 And there was one young man that was let us streaking in front of the 01:19:28.060 --> 01:19:35.187 arts and science and liberal arts building. And um, I recognized him 01:19:35.220 --> 01:19:41.567 actually as in a restaurant. I recognized him and one day they were doing 01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:46.786 pre registration. So he was over at the registration and more building and 01:19:46.819 --> 01:19:52.387 I, I got in line right behind him because he had to give his name. Yeah. 01:19:52.420 --> 01:19:58.046 And two days later I, I got him a letter and I called him in, talk to him 01:19:58.079 --> 01:20:06.079 about it and we didn't take any serious disciplinary action, but he didn't 01:20:06.369 --> 01:20:14.177 streak anymore. But his career with, well 01:20:14.210 --> 01:20:16.277 actually, 01:20:16.310 --> 01:20:20.876 yeah, more good stories like that. 01:20:20.909 --> 01:20:24.677 Um, 01:20:24.710 --> 01:20:28.737 well there were a lot of stories you really couldn't talk about, but, but 01:20:28.770 --> 01:20:36.336 let me john Duffy was just such a fine person and he was he more than any 01:20:36.369 --> 01:20:39.076 one single individual 01:20:39.109 --> 01:20:44.967 who was responsible for our getting through those campus protest days. And 01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:49.446 everybody loved john, I mean faculty, they, they loved him and it's, it's 01:20:49.479 --> 01:20:54.357 not easy being a campus police chief and being loved by people. But john 01:20:54.390 --> 01:20:58.616 was that he would play pranks on people, but he would always meet with us 01:20:58.649 --> 01:21:02.727 , you're my boss George and would meet with him and they would kind of 01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:09.006 script out things the day before things would happen. And, but john would 01:21:09.039 --> 01:21:12.847 talk to these students and say, okay now, if you're going to have a march 01:21:12.880 --> 01:21:15.467 , you can do this or you can't do this. And he would line up the 01:21:15.500 --> 01:21:21.086 parameters and they would, they would listen to him and several of the 01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:26.177 students that were the main instigators of these protests, 01:21:26.210 --> 01:21:29.956 I felt the world thought the world john Duffy and they followed what he 01:21:29.989 --> 01:21:32.796 said and if he said, hey, if you're going this building, I'm gonna have to 01:21:32.829 --> 01:21:37.876 arrest you. They believed him. But yeah, we were blessed to have john 01:21:37.909 --> 01:21:42.647 there when frank kush was fired. Did it greatly affect the back of the 01:21:42.680 --> 01:21:48.177 students? They get involved? The, 01:21:48.210 --> 01:21:51.916 well here, let's go back to the state press. Yes. Some of the students did 01:21:51.949 --> 01:21:58.086 get involved because the state press started running stories about, about 01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:03.847 the Rutledge incident before the other newspapers picked up on it. And 01:22:03.880 --> 01:22:07.756 that's what happened from time to time. It might be the new times that 01:22:07.789 --> 01:22:12.446 would take on a story. That wasn't that, that's fairly sensitive. That 01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:16.987 would then force the other newspapers that uh, take up the story. But the 01:22:17.020 --> 01:22:23.847 state press, I think broke the initial stories. And so it was written 01:22:23.880 --> 01:22:31.357 about, it was on the news on and on and on. So, um, and then it was, it 01:22:31.390 --> 01:22:37.576 was tragic because I think it frank said, look in the heat of the moment, 01:22:37.609 --> 01:22:41.406 the emotion, you know. Yeah, I guess I did, you know, shake his helmet or 01:22:41.439 --> 01:22:49.439 grab him. I think it might have been over if frank had indicated that uh 01:22:49.689 --> 01:22:55.737 huh my boss George Hammond, I went down to some of the hearings on the, on 01:22:55.770 --> 01:23:03.770 the suit and there was a lot going on during them because 01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:08.647 a number of people wanted pro football to come into the stadium and frank 01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:12.857 had said as long as I'm here, there's not going to be a pro football and 01:23:12.890 --> 01:23:18.946 with frank, not here as head coach. Uh, not too many people were ready to 01:23:18.979 --> 01:23:22.677 go against frank kush because it was so popular, it was really a bulky 01:23:22.710 --> 01:23:26.906 right here in Arizona and for that matter, he still is kinda, I'm glad 01:23:26.939 --> 01:23:32.937 he's back in the athletic department. But, but had frank said gee, I don't 01:23:32.970 --> 01:23:38.777 know. I guess I lost my temper. I don't think it would have going on the 01:23:38.810 --> 01:23:43.467 way it did 01:23:43.500 --> 01:23:51.500 well that, that was a tough evening that when frank was let go, we played 01:23:52.569 --> 01:23:57.977 the University of Washington I think the next night and frank learned in 01:23:58.010 --> 01:24:04.107 the afternoon that he was being let go. He learned from one of our sports 01:24:04.140 --> 01:24:09.557 writers who was a friend that was the first he heard about about the news. 01:24:09.590 --> 01:24:14.737 And so he went to the locker room that night and bob Owens was going to 01:24:14.770 --> 01:24:19.517 be the one that took over the team and he told bob Owens I'm coaching this 01:24:19.550 --> 01:24:24.567 team tonight. So by the time they came running out of the dressing room 01:24:24.600 --> 01:24:29.696 onto the field, I mean there was electricity in the air. Everybody was 01:24:29.729 --> 01:24:35.357 upset, you know that he was being fired And here comes frank with the team. 01:24:35.390 --> 01:24:38.406 And I don't think we had beaten Washington that night. University of 01:24:38.439 --> 01:24:44.756 Washington but we beat them and they had probably 100 highway patrolman up 01:24:44.789 --> 01:24:52.789 in the sky boxes protecting uh, the athletic director. And uh, I had a 01:24:52.850 --> 01:24:56.256 friend that was sitting up with the athletic director and I mean people 01:24:56.289 --> 01:25:01.687 were banging on the windows of the skyboxes and uh, but after the game, we 01:25:01.720 --> 01:25:07.116 won and they carried frank out on their shoulders and it was banners all 01:25:07.149 --> 01:25:14.467 over the stadium. Oh, very, very emotional and I'm glad to see frank back 01:25:14.500 --> 01:25:17.246 . I think 01:25:17.279 --> 01:25:22.756 that's already done a lot for the healing of, 01:25:22.789 --> 01:25:30.637 of our fans the state and naming the field after frank, I think really did 01:25:30.670 --> 01:25:35.477 a lot of healing. And When Ned Walk left, he left four victories before 01:25:35.510 --> 01:25:41.656 his 25th year. And I don't know, four or 500 victories when they named 01:25:41.689 --> 01:25:49.689 that the gymnasium, the sidewalk, uh, floor that did a lot of healing to, 01:25:50.329 --> 01:25:54.446 which needed to take place because we lost a lot of fans support during 01:25:54.479 --> 01:26:02.479 those years after, after those two, the coaches were let go, 01:26:06.079 --> 01:26:09.967 it's been an exciting time around being out of the university. You were 01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:15.717 there during the exciting times. Yeah, yeah, it was and I would never do 01:26:15.750 --> 01:26:20.156 anything differently. And I just was really fortunate to be there because 01:26:20.189 --> 01:26:24.456 you have this image of people that are in high places like a president or 01:26:24.489 --> 01:26:29.746 , and I think of laddie cooler. I mean, uh, these people are approachable 01:26:29.779 --> 01:26:35.246 and I met with our dean of students at the time George ham. 01:26:35.279 --> 01:26:42.586 And I thought, well, you know, he seems like a pretty grounded guy, not 01:26:42.619 --> 01:26:46.916 into himself and I went into his office and he had a table and put his 01:26:46.949 --> 01:26:53.347 feet up on the table and I said, you know, this isn't the image I have of 01:26:53.380 --> 01:26:58.147 people at higher places, but I think a lot of students come to the campus 01:26:58.180 --> 01:27:03.177 and they don't really realize that their professors are as approachable as 01:27:03.210 --> 01:27:08.756 they are. They don't realize that whether it's a Christine wilkinson or 01:27:08.789 --> 01:27:12.006 some other vice presidents that hey, you know, they enjoy that student 01:27:12.039 --> 01:27:16.857 contact and those acquaintances as much as anyone else. And that's 01:27:16.890 --> 01:27:23.897 something that with students coming to the campus having access to 01:27:23.930 --> 01:27:30.987 information, having access to staff and students really makes their 01:27:31.020 --> 01:27:34.927 experience much more enjoyable. They do better. They learn where the 01:27:34.960 --> 01:27:39.637 resources are. I can remember when I went through my graduate work, I 01:27:39.670 --> 01:27:42.116 didn't know that much about financial aids. I didn't know I could get 01:27:42.149 --> 01:27:46.826 grants or that kind of thing, but students coming in now are much more 01:27:46.859 --> 01:27:51.086 informed, but that's really the role of whether it be student affairs of 01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:56.937 faculty or whomever to make students aware of all the resources that are 01:27:56.970 --> 01:28:02.607 available and you can get involved in this group or that group. And uh, 01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:06.076 that makes a big difference to employers when they look at a, at a resume 01:28:06.109 --> 01:28:11.116 when a student is graduating. Did the student just wasn't just academics 01:28:11.149 --> 01:28:15.057 or what else, what other kind of experiences would prepare that student to 01:28:15.090 --> 01:28:23.090 be coming to our particular firm or company and being a success. Ah, I, I 01:28:23.720 --> 01:28:28.116 didn't mention any student names or how successful, but we've got students 01:28:28.149 --> 01:28:32.137 that were assistant attorney generals of the United States. One former 01:28:32.170 --> 01:28:37.326 student body president was an executive with CBS. 01:28:37.359 --> 01:28:42.746 Got a former student region. That's I think a vice president with Nike. I 01:28:42.779 --> 01:28:46.567 mean there are so many examples of these students that had a full 01:28:46.600 --> 01:28:52.597 experience and and you look at them now and you say, well how do we design 01:28:52.630 --> 01:28:55.987 and experience for all students? Not just students and student government 01:28:56.020 --> 01:29:00.666 or not students just in L. S. P. R. Leadership scholarship program or the 01:29:00.699 --> 01:29:05.906 reach staff or student foundation or devil's advocates. Um that's that's 01:29:05.939 --> 01:29:10.357 one of the challenges of a student affairs unit two have a level level 01:29:10.390 --> 01:29:15.437 playing field for as many students as they can. 01:29:15.470 --> 01:29:19.536 So 01:29:19.569 --> 01:29:25.767 thank you. Thank you very much. I guess I was kind of wound up. Huh? 01:29:25.800 --> 01:29:33.800 Well I got involved too much in there. Student activism probably. But old 01:29:35.829 --> 01:29:39.607 main park was the place where everybody would end up at, you know, at the 01:29:39.640 --> 01:29:42.836 end of the day. And 01:29:42.869 --> 01:29:44.869 yeah,