WEBVTT

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 with Wilma Suara Yeah, this is December seven 2007 and I want to thank

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you for coming this afternoon and
spending some time with us. I'm just

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gonna ask you some questions and just
as a conversation as we start,

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they're not going to hear me on the
table, this is edited. So when I ask

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you a question, if you would just kind
of lead in that lets the audience

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know what that question was asked. So
first I'm going to talk to you about

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your early years where you were born
and raised and what your parents did

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, what your education was and then
we'll just lead on. So can I ask you

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that question where you were born and
raised and what your what your

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family did, evidently you want to know
something about my past and I was

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born in Missouri and I say Missouri
instead of Missouri. So people know

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that I'm really from there and I was
born in a very small town and when I

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was five years old, my father, it was
during the depression, my father

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decided that he had always wanted to
come to phoenix Arizona. So we came

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out here and I went to kindergarten in
phoenix and because my birthday was

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at the wrong time of the year, I
couldn't start the first grade. And so

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that was their excuse for moving back.
So then we moved to Columbia

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Missouri after that and of course it
was during the depression and people

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did people, we're very hard up but my
father was in a situation, he was

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not wealthy by any means, but he was
in a situation where he bought for

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taxes a city block and he started
building houses during the Depression,

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which doesn't make any sense. Um in
the on that block of land that he

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bought, people thought he was out of
his mind, but he didn't build but one

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a year and we would move into it and
then he would sell it And he would

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move out. Well one year he built three
um which which worked out fine, but

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people just were not building at all.
He was about the only one that was

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doing any building at that time. And
then of course he sold lots in that

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area also and those houses are still
standing. Incidentally because every

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time I go back I go buy those houses
to see if they're still there and

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they are every single one of them. So
that was kind of the beginning. I

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went to grade school and of course in
Columbia Junior High and high school

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and then I went to steven's college
and attended the University of

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Missouri and got married. I met my
husband in a drugstore and um I I knew

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good and well that he was not a
teacher. He had told me that he was, it

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was that he had just gotten out of
teaching a class and I did not believe

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him. I said no you're here because
you're visiting a stevens girl. I know

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that's the case. No, I am not. So
anyway, he finally convinced me and

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asked me to meet him the next morning
at 7:30 at this particular drug

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store and for a cup of coffee. So I
did. But the funny part is I went home

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that day and I told my parents I'd met
the man I was going to marry and

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they thought this kid is out of her
gourd. But it worked out that way. And

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um

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then we moved to texas where he worked
on his doctorate and received his

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doctorate and they wanted him back at
the University of Missouri after

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that. And I think the rest is nearly
history. We went back there, We were

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at the University of Missouri for 20
years except for a brief time when he

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was asked to be controller. Well you
didn't start out as controller. It

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was a little hoover commission and he
was asked to be on that. And the

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governor evidently liked his work very
well and asked him to come come

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back to jefferson city, which is the
capital of Missouri. And at that time

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we moved back there and uh he was
there for a short period of time and

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then we went back to the University of
Missouri in Colombia and lived

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there. He was, he went back as acting
Dean of business school and Dean of

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faculties and

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I can't remember how many years he was
in the position as dean of faculty

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, He was only acting dean of business
school as I recall for one year. Um

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, The two or 3 years and then the
University of Missouri was in a state of

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flux because they were becoming a
system. And so they were doing away with

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the president of each campus. Well, it
had always kind of been a system

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because they had Kerala which was
school of engineering,

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engineering minds. M I N E. S. Not M I
N. D. S. And

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let me see,

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we he became dean of faculties then
and they were in the state of flux.

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And so they became a system and they
have now a campus in ST louis and a

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campus in Kansas city. And of course
the one that roll up but they have a

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president over all of it. And my
husband was what was equal to the

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president of the Columbia campus. What
was your major when you were in

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college, it was gonna be commercial
education. You was your what what's

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what's commercial education? Well it
was you were going to teach, you're

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going to teach? You were going to
teach commercial education in those days.

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That was, that was good. Did you ever
teach? No, no, never did get

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married. Where were you? In texas? In
texas University of texas in Austin.

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Austin, mm hmm liked Austin very, very
much. In fact we had hoped that we

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would retire there. But when
retirement time came, why my parents had

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moved out here at the same time as we
did because I'm an only child,

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my mother had had a stroke and my
father was quite elderly and we just

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could not see leaving them. So we
stayed here but we liked Austin and I

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have a grandson that graduated from
the University of texas. Do you,

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how many Children do you have to have
a boy and a girl? There isn't

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anything else that's true on a bit. Um

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when was, when was the president
recruited to issue? in 1971, we came in

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one July 1971, He accepted the
position about December the 19th, 1970

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what influenced his decision to come
here and not stay in Missouri? Well

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there were several reasons um he felt
there was a lot of potential here

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for growth and he liked that Missouri
is an older school and there wasn't

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that same potential.

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He felt that there was a lot of
promise at this school, it had not

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fulfilled its potential at all. So
that gave him something to really look

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forward to And he always said 10 years
then I'll be through because my

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what I feel I will have done the
things that I want to be able to do And I

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hope that he felt at the end of 10
years that he had done those, He was

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here at 10 years. Yes, you came in 71,
July of 71, It was a very, very

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growing time. Yes, it was, the school
had not had that kind of growth

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before. Of course we've had so much
girls since, I mean, you know, this

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place is mammoth now. Nobody would
recognize it.

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I'm sure my husband wouldn't recognize
it. Do you happen to remember how

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the size of the student body when you
guys came? It was about 23-25,000

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And it was about 39 when we left. So
they used to say, we, that they grew

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a college every year. You know, the
size of college about 2000 a year. Mm

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Hmm.

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Um, can you describe what the
president's home was like as it existed when

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you moved in College Avenue
neighborhood? Yeah, the middle school there,

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well, we were across the street from
the middle school and it had its

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advantages and it had its
disadvantages. The advantages was, there was a

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place to park and in those days the
president did entertaining, um, I

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would say mass entertaining, not, not
small groups. He didn't do small

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groups because he felt you got too
close to only a few faculty. And if he

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had to make a decision, then he had
hurt someone. And so his, his feeling

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was, you stayed away from buddy buddy
system and he lived that way and it

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was a little bit difficult for me
because I therefore did not have close

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friends at that time. And people would
say, well there are other

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presidents around but they weren't
really not on the same level. And so it

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was in some ways a very social life,
but it was an antisocial too because

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you met people that different
functions but you didn't really know them

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okay. Oh you wanted, oh I was going to
tell you about the house. It was a

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sprawling three bedroom dan and a very
large living room and a very

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adequate kitchen with place to eat in
it and a very small dining room,

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which was unfortunate. So most of the
entertaining was done on the outside

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, but they were the out of the yard
and the backyard was just beautiful.

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It truly was. We had a swimming pool
and it was kept well and we had

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orange trees, lemon trees, grapefruit
trees, apricot trees, plum trees, I

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used to say I came to Arizona to be a
farmer.

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It was, it was very lovely. It really
was. It was so different from the

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house that I moved out of because that
was a house that was 100 years old

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while we were there and was the oldest
building on campus there. And of

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course this was a fairly new house.

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Did the temperature bother you coming
out here? No, because it's a dry

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heat? Remember the temperature was no
problem at all. I think that each

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summer gets a little hotter now as I
get older and they say, as you get

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older, the heat bothers you more and
I'm beginning to believe it.

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I think somebody said there's a guy
with horns down there that said that

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it's a dry heat down there too. That's
right. It's a dry heat. We mustn't

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forget that. We tell people that.
Well, I was back to a, to a class

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reunion many years ago and I thought
I'd die of the heat and my friends

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kept saying, But you live where it's
110 most of the time in the summer

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time said it's a dry heat, humidity
bothers me too. Oh, it does. Me too.

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Can you give us a perspective as your
role as the first lady of the issue

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? And it's like the faculty, your
relationship with the faculty, students

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, staff and alumni. I think that we
had, I had a lot of,

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of

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dealings with the faculty because
faculty wives were very active at that

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time and we were bringing in so many
new faculty that it was really nice.

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We had such an active newcomers group.
And I can honestly say that to this

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day. Many of the people that were in
the newcomers group are the people

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that I know the best because I never
did know all the faculty that have

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been here a long time because they had
their own little groups and they've

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been here a long time. They knew each
other quite well and these newcomers

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that were coming in well, I was
actually a newcomer to. So, you know, we

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got along fine, I played golf with
them and oh, there were many

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organizations that the interest groups
that they had that I enjoyed. And

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we had many functions at the house for
the, for the newcomers group and

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for faculty wives at large, we had a
huge

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uh paul, was it a small luncheon or
spring? Wish I get my seasons mixed up

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in Arizona. I can't remember whether I
do things in the fall or the spring

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, but we, we had a big luncheon and it
was extremely well attended and it

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was in the yard and people came, they,
they enjoyed it. I remember one

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time in particular that Hattie babbitt
was the speaker and the faculty

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turned, the faculty wives turned out
in force. They were all there

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who catered for these big functions,
the union,

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we've never had anybody else. Mhm. And
they did, they did commendable job.

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They weren't perfect, but they did a
good job.

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Are there any specific events other
than that, that the spring luncheons

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that you could think of that? Well, we
had a big faculty reception in the

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fall every year. And of course that
was one time in particular that we

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were delighted that there was parking
across the street, which of course

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they haven't had in many years now.
And okay, of course, we entertained

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the legislator legislators on many
different occasions and we didn't have

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the same type of thing as we had had
in Missouri because in Missouri we

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had engineering week and Journalism
week and we were always involved in

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those in a big way, but they didn't
seem to have the traditions here that

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we had there. So in so many ways um I
was not as involved in a lot of

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things as much here as I have been in
Missouri,

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which gave me some more free time,
which was great.

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If what what what do you think that
your husband would uh consider his

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greatest accomplishments or his
greatest challenges?

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Well, probably getting money from the
legislate horse. Mhm. And I think

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that he really enjoyed that challenge.
He

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he enjoyed the people there and it was
something that at the end of the

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session, he knew whether he had done a
good job or not, whereas a lot of

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things in the field of education, it's
so it's kind of a never never land.

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You don't know for years whether
there's been any um anything happened

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that you would have liked to have
happened, but he did well with the

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legislature for that time and he
always felt that it was a state

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university and the legislature should
fund it. Um So I think that he put

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that right before them all the time.
Hey, this is your school, you fund it

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, it isn't done quite that way now,
but they're very fortunate they've had

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a lot of outside help,

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but it's not quite a state university
anymore either. That's true.

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I hope they never really changed the
name. I think that would be awful. I

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really rise up,

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I spent 10 years. They're getting too
don't change the name, I agree. What

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happened? Never happened. Um What were
the demands placed on you and your

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Children as part of the first family
of an issue?

00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:52.807
Well hopefully

00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:58.246
we set an example. I can't say that my
daughter did because she resented

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uh

00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:07.407
being looked up to my husband would
never let me wear shorts out in public

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and this went on and on and on. Even
after we moved away, he wouldn't let

00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:16.467
me wear shorts. He says if you're
playing golf you can wear shorts, but if

00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:21.586
you go to the grocery store. No you
put on a dress I guess he was old

00:17:21.619 --> 00:17:28.066
fashioned that way. Yes. Uh huh. He
really was um

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that was one of the things and I guess
that you you always realize that

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once people knew who you were, that
they took a second look because they

00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:47.566
wanted to know how you were acting and
what you were doing. So you felt as

00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:54.197
though you were in a uh the spotlight
many times,

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it wasn't quite so much like that here
as it was in Missouri because the

00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:04.566
turnover was so tremendous here, not
only at the university but in you

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know the growth in this area has just
people can't imagine an area growing

00:18:09.559 --> 00:18:15.736
like we have grown and Missouri was
more stable and people lived there for

00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:19.607
generations and generations,
grandfather great grandfather went to the

00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:23.826
University of Missouri. People in your
cities sent their Children to the

00:18:23.859 --> 00:18:29.256
University of Missouri and so they
knew who the officials were of the

00:18:29.289 --> 00:18:35.387
schools, whereas here, um, they
weren't quite as tuned into it, but that

00:18:35.420 --> 00:18:42.266
was good for us. I think that the
president of a issue has always been a

00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:47.516
figurehead like Michael Crowe is today
that the professors don't quite

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draw as many

00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:56.046
much observation at the schools as
they normally did. Well. Michael Crowe

00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.756
is off campus, johnny was on campus. I
didn't know President Carlos

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Hopkins. Well, his building is right
down here on, oh no, in Tempe. Really

00:19:07.230 --> 00:19:15.157
? Yes, his office is not on campus.
Hmm, Maybe I'm wrong about that. But

00:19:15.190 --> 00:19:19.907
why would they have this building
then? I don't think he's on campus.

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Don't quote me that I didn't

00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:32.187
founding. Yeah, But isn't his office
in that building in Tempe? Yeah, his

00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:36.806
office is downtown in Tampa.

00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:44.839
So he doesn't really see faculty
johnny saw faculty every day many times.

00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:49.806
Do you have any observations about the
growth of the status of a issue

00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:57.839
since the early 80s? Well. It has
grown so much. And technically I don't

00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.897
understand all the things that
they've, they've been putting in and doing

00:20:00.930 --> 00:20:07.207
, but I'm sure that, uh, for this for
the generation of people that it,

00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:12.586
that it serves that it's wonderful
that they're doing it. How do you think

00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:18.627
your husband would? I think that he
was he was a positive thinker and he

00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:24.917
would feel that it was marvelous. He
would feel that he had lost a lot of

00:20:24.950 --> 00:20:30.806
the things that we remember of being
important when you go to college

00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.907
because

00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:39.016
it is so big that how do you have that
feeling that you are really part of

00:20:39.049 --> 00:20:46.496
the school? Um You know we would hear
people call and yell at each other

00:20:46.529 --> 00:20:51.746
across campus. They knew each other
and A. S. U. Has grown so much that I

00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:56.157
just don't see how in the world they
are having a real college experience

00:20:56.190 --> 00:21:00.717
here. But it's going to be an
experience that will suit them for their

00:21:00.750 --> 00:21:06.316
world. But it isn't the kind of
experience that my world would have

00:21:06.349 --> 00:21:10.006
thought was right.

00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:16.677
What have you been doing since you
giving up your roles as well? The first

00:21:16.710 --> 00:21:22.546
thing we did after johnny retired was
we build houses. Um People look at

00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:28.226
as in awe when I say that, but my
husband had always wanted to do that and

00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:33.066
it gave us an opportunity to and so we
did, we built three and we had the

00:21:33.099 --> 00:21:37.847
third one on the drawing board when he
passed away. No we had the 4th one

00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:41.976
on the drawing board when he passed
away. Did you finish it? No it was

00:21:42.009 --> 00:21:47.516
just on the drawing board. Yes. No, we
finished three and I sold the last

00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:55.347
one after he died. I lived in it 12
years. No, not quite. I can't remember

00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:58.506
how many years I lived in it after he
died at least seven years after he

00:21:58.539 --> 00:22:04.006
died. Are you still playing golf? No,
no, no.

00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:09.256
What other things do you do? Well, I
do play some bridge and I'm active in

00:22:09.289 --> 00:22:17.289
P. E. O. And I'm active in church,
methodist church in Sun Lakes and I'm

00:22:17.289 --> 00:22:25.289
in an investment club and I keep
awfully busy. Good. What advice would you

00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:28.776
give young people today regarding
their collegiate work or family

00:22:28.809 --> 00:22:34.437
experiences? Oh my their world is so
different from mine that it's awfully

00:22:34.470 --> 00:22:39.407
hard for me to give them advice. I'm
old enough to be their grandmother

00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.847
and they are, they're very different.
I mean, I know that with my own

00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:48.576
grandchildren, their views are so
different from mine. I mean my

00:22:48.609 --> 00:22:55.207
generation was family oriented and I'm
not at all sure that there's this.

00:22:55.240 --> 00:23:01.549
I have one grandson that is more
family oriented I think than the others.

00:23:01.940 --> 00:23:03.940
Did. Your Children go to? My daughter did for three years. She graduated

00:23:05.849 --> 00:23:12.226
from here. She started and then she
was in the honors college and after

00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:16.086
that she wanted to go away for a year.
So she did. We thought she would

00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:20.197
get her degree from the University of
Oregon, but she did not. She then

00:23:20.230 --> 00:23:24.246
begged to come back to shoot and then
after she got married she moved back

00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:30.816
to Oregon. Really, she couldn't make
up her mind, could she?

00:23:30.849 --> 00:23:35.506
I guess. So,

00:23:35.539 --> 00:23:43.016
manny. Okay. I've gone through, I've
gone through our questions. I see. I

00:23:43.049 --> 00:23:48.006
would like to ask you what,

00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:53.347
what were the most memorable things
that happened during the time that you

00:23:53.380 --> 00:24:00.407
and john were here? Well, some of the
things that were really that I

00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:07.006
remember quite well were some of the
people that we met. Um

00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:12.107
I remember meeting robert Penn,

00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:18.707
Is it Warren? Yes. Uh to me that was a
marvelous evening. The evening that

00:24:18.740 --> 00:24:23.086
we spent with him. It was

00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:27.806
it was inspirational, that's all there
was to it. And

00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:33.217
Mcfarland who had been, I believe,
United States representative and also

00:24:33.250 --> 00:24:38.746
Governor of Arizona. He was just, I
mean, he was delightful. I really

00:24:38.779 --> 00:24:46.097
loved the man Goldwater, of course
Hugh downs and there were many others.

00:24:46.130 --> 00:24:51.957
But those are the ones that really
that I believe stand out the most with

00:24:51.990 --> 00:24:57.217
their advanced. I mean, were you guys
here when there was the anti war

00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:02.026
demonstrations, things like you know?
And what you had here was miners as

00:25:02.059 --> 00:25:07.266
far as we were concerned. Very minor.
Mhm. We were not our only problems

00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:10.766
were football,

00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.887
there were there those demonstrations
at the University of Missouri? Oh

00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:19.576
yes, we had them. We surely did. All
of our windows were knocked out one

00:25:19.609 --> 00:25:25.407
evening. Yes. Mhm.

00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.276
So back in the midwest and our son was
in school at Berkeley at the time

00:25:30.309 --> 00:25:35.657
and he would he would call home and
tell us what to expect because

00:25:35.690 --> 00:25:40.786
everything seemed to start right there
and so we we knew what to expect,

00:25:40.819 --> 00:25:44.367
but there's no way to really prepare
for it. How do you know that they're

00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.056
going to surround your house in the
middle of the night and throw bricks

00:25:47.089 --> 00:25:50.707
through the windows

00:25:50.740 --> 00:25:54.957
and you know, it wasn't a personal
thing, they wanted him to close down

00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:58.597
the school and there was no way he was
going to close down the school

00:25:58.630 --> 00:26:04.046
because that wasn't going to stop the
war and many people uh sent their

00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:08.707
Children to school for an education
not to have the school closed down.

00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:13.976
And afterwards we found out that many
of the schools that were closed down

00:26:14.009 --> 00:26:18.697
, The parents were extremely mad
because they had to send their kids to

00:26:18.730 --> 00:26:24.236
school an extra semester. That wasn't
good for their bank account. That's

00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:31.607
true, that's true. How long did that
go on? I would just say the spring of

00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:37.697
It was a 68, 69, 69 I believe. Spring
of 69. But it was really funny

00:26:37.730 --> 00:26:45.607
because before that um the campus was
such a happy place and once can't

00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:52.476
state happened, why the students
became totally silent, they just shuffled

00:26:52.509 --> 00:26:59.026
their feet. They didn't talk to each
other. It was it was a mad group of

00:26:59.059 --> 00:27:01.276
young people.

00:27:01.309 --> 00:27:08.137
I think they they felt it very deeply
the shooting, it brought it all home.

00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:12.947
That's what brought it all home? It
surely was. That's right. Do you

00:27:12.980 --> 00:27:17.776
think that this war that we're
involved in now evolve into something like

00:27:17.809 --> 00:27:23.407
that with students? I don't believe it
will. I hope not.

00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:29.097
What you see in the other war, We were
in Vietnam. Was it the Vietnam or?

00:27:29.130 --> 00:27:34.006
Yes, we've had so many wars,

00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:39.736
they were drafting. And it's always
been my theory that the college

00:27:39.769 --> 00:27:46.016
students that were the students that
were in college and they had good

00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:50.536
good friends that had been drafted and
we're over there serving that in a

00:27:50.569 --> 00:27:55.207
way, they had a guilty conscience
about that. They they felt fortunate

00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:59.167
that they were in school. But there
was there was something there that

00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.707
they probably couldn't put their
finger on.

00:28:03.740 --> 00:28:09.316
That's true. And I don't think that
today's students feel that way because

00:28:09.349 --> 00:28:13.576
we still have a volunteer force over
there, which is kind of hard to

00:28:13.609 --> 00:28:17.207
believe. But we do.

00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:21.217
My philosophy is they didn't get
involved here because it was too hot. You

00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.457
can't, you can't demonstrate what's
150, you probably have something there.

00:28:26.490 --> 00:28:29.907
 Uh,

00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:32.776
is there anything else about your time
here at a s you or your husband?

00:28:32.809 --> 00:28:35.766
You'd like to share with us that we
haven't asked. Well, there probably is

00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.957
a lot of things, but I'm not coming up
with them. As I told you, my long

00:28:38.990 --> 00:28:43.506
term memory may not be working as it
should.

00:28:43.539 --> 00:28:48.107
Who was, who replaced the president's
wada? Who was the next president of

00:28:48.140 --> 00:28:56.140
the nelsons? Yes. So you stayed in a
Arizona state in Tempe? Uh We moved

00:28:56.269 --> 00:28:59.786
to Mesa because that was the first
house we built and then we moved to

00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:03.187
Tampa because we built one there and
then we moved to phoenix because we

00:29:03.220 --> 00:29:08.857
built one up to the side of the
mountain in Albuquerque. So we moved

00:29:08.890 --> 00:29:13.627
around a lot. Was this a passion of
his to build things? Yes. Yes. I

00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:17.407
always said he who is a frustrated
engineer.

00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:24.266
How was that? His was always study
education or was was engineering

00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:28.766
something that maybe he he just liked
it, he just liked it. He liked it.

00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:33.907
Yes. No, his field was international
relations and

00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:35.986
ah

00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:41.937
I want to say constitutional law,
international relations and maybe that

00:29:41.970 --> 00:29:45.967
was it. You said he served on the
little hoover commission. What was that

00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:50.877
? That was a commission that I guess
several states had it, they had it in

00:29:50.910 --> 00:29:54.847
Missouri where they went in and
examined how all the departments were

00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:01.097
working and recommended ways to save
money for the state basically. That's

00:30:01.130 --> 00:30:06.697
what it was. Were there other national
or state commissions that he worked

00:30:06.730 --> 00:30:11.816
on? Well, he was on the National PBS
board actually, he was the last year

00:30:11.849 --> 00:30:18.397
, he was here, he was chairman to find
a new chairman for that for that

00:30:18.430 --> 00:30:26.430
board. What is that? The, the public
public broadcasting company PBS. PBS.

00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:31.026
That's interesting was when did
channel eight start? Did that start while

00:30:31.059 --> 00:30:36.697
you were here? No, it was it started
several years before before that.

00:30:36.730 --> 00:30:41.097
So he always supported. That's right.
That's right. And it was kind of

00:30:41.130 --> 00:30:44.006
funny because we had a Channel Eight
in Colombia too. That was a

00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:49.607
television station and it was run by
the university

00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:54.976
Life with Channel eight would be
without channel. It would be very So

00:30:55.009 --> 00:30:58.657
we're very fortunate to have channel
eight here. We really are. And

00:30:58.690 --> 00:31:03.576
sometimes I forget that we have it.
You know, I will Be watching something

00:31:03.609 --> 00:31:06.746
else and I think we'll wonder what's
on Channel eight and it's usually

00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:13.187
much better than what's anyplace else.
I actually watch it create every

00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:18.687
morning between five and six. So do
you cooking shows? Uh huh. I see. I

00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.236
see. I always support channel and then
they have the yoga program and all

00:31:23.269 --> 00:31:28.266
these other exercise programs. But I
don't do those. I go to max life so I

00:31:28.299 --> 00:31:35.107
get a real good workout. Well, I'm in
community college.

00:31:35.140 --> 00:31:38.076
Well, I thank you.

00:31:38.109 --> 00:31:44.967
I was wondering if you would be glad
or if you would share with us your

00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:47.806
husband's

00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:54.897
challenges related to he issues
academic. Oh,

00:31:54.930 --> 00:31:57.506
I'm glad you.

00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:01.236
Yes, I'm awfully glad you brought that
up because that was a real problem.

00:32:01.269 --> 00:32:08.637
Um The faculty did not think of
themselves as being part of a university.

00:32:08.670 --> 00:32:12.976
They continually thought of themselves
as being part of a teacher's

00:32:13.009 --> 00:32:17.107
college, you might say because we had
not been a university too long when

00:32:17.140 --> 00:32:21.816
we came here. And so that was
something that he said it's walking, it's

00:32:21.849 --> 00:32:27.607
like walking through molasses to drag
them up to.

00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:34.806
Is that Oh,

00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:40.486
alright, That's okay. They just did
not want to think of themselves as a

00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:47.607
university and unfortunately that
mentality hurt the university at that

00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:54.107
time and most of those professors are
not here now. But I think that most

00:32:54.140 --> 00:32:58.197
of them stayed. But we brought in a
lot of new professors during johnny's

00:32:58.230 --> 00:33:00.207
administration,

00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.677
but they're older now. And I think
that the present president was not shy

00:33:05.710 --> 00:33:10.306
about getting rid of people.

00:33:10.339 --> 00:33:14.496
What about with the athletic area?
Because during that time we have come

00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:18.847
through a number of national
championships in baseball. Basketball was

00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:26.880
highly supported by the Mhm Coach
question developed the football programs

00:33:26.950 --> 00:33:33.927
too. I don't remember when we went
into Iraq we were in the wax to the

00:33:33.960 --> 00:33:39.957
Western, but it seemed that a lot of
the focus of the alumni and the

00:33:39.990 --> 00:33:46.207
community was tied more to athletics
than to unfortunately,

00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:50.306
you know, Unfortunately that's
probably true at all universities. We're

00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:56.607
probably not the only one that felt
that way. The alarms it.

00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:01.407
We don't have anything that he said.
So we don't know what you're talking.

00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:08.677
What I need for you to say is about.
Alright.

00:34:08.710 --> 00:34:16.666
Alright. Yeah. I was talking to bob
wasn't, which is nice, but all right.

00:34:16.699 --> 00:34:22.816
I'm sorry, sort of set the statement
alright. And so set it with as

00:34:22.849 --> 00:34:30.606
athletics versus alright. Academic.
Yes. Well I think there's another

00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:35.657
subject that we should touch upon and
that is the mentality the feeling of

00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:41.046
the professors at A. S. U. When my
husband came. Um It had been it had not

00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:45.626
been a university very long and too
many of the professors and many of

00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:49.727
them were excellent teachers. But they
had done little research and they

00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:54.936
did not feel they thought of
themselves as still part of a teacher's

00:34:54.969 --> 00:35:01.217
college instead of a university. And
my husband was adamant about research.

00:35:01.250 --> 00:35:05.796
He said we are a university and so we
must do research at this point in

00:35:05.829 --> 00:35:12.376
time. Um Yeah, the board was not too
happy about that either. I remember

00:35:12.409 --> 00:35:17.686
he took his resignation in his pocket
one time saying unless we can do

00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:23.166
research, I'm out of here. And so that
was kind of the beginning of

00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:26.767
research. They of course had done it
before and they had offered a few

00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:31.157
phds but not many. And since research
has grown and look where we are now

00:35:31.190 --> 00:35:36.407
, it's marvelous. It truly is. And

00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:41.086
I think at that time the alums were
not too interested in whether there

00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:45.026
was research or not, they were more
interested in a football team and the

00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:50.086
same was true of the people downtown.
I'm quite sure they feel differently

00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:55.736
now. They have grown up also. Um We
did have a good football team, good

00:35:55.769 --> 00:36:01.736
basketball team, baseball team the
whole works. Um We were in a smaller

00:36:01.769 --> 00:36:07.827
conference than we are in now and that
makes a big difference. Um Too

00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:12.416
often the alums get so attached to the
football team and the other

00:36:12.449 --> 00:36:19.637
athletics in a school that they forget
about everything else and That

00:36:19.670 --> 00:36:25.486
certainly was the case here at one
time that things have worked out for

00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:31.807
the best I think. And I'm sure that
some of the things that happened did

00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:38.807
not happen exactly as the press I told
them. But you can't argue with the

00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:46.546
press, you just have to go along and
let time perhaps explain it. Do you

00:36:46.579 --> 00:36:52.486
think that john felt when he left that
he had made those changes? Do you

00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:57.497
think, I feel that

00:36:57.530 --> 00:37:03.796
when my husband retired that he wished
that he had been able to do more.

00:37:03.829 --> 00:37:10.287
But he felt that many of the changes
we're beginning to take shape and so

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.787
that was a good feeling. You never
feel that you've done everything that

00:37:13.820 --> 00:37:17.666
you possibly could, but you do the
best you can under the circumstances.

00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:22.077
And also with the money that you have
and at the time that he was a issue

00:37:22.110 --> 00:37:27.097
, money was still scarce. We were not
issuing bonds for buildings and so

00:37:27.130 --> 00:37:32.396
forth. And more buildings had been um

00:37:32.429 --> 00:37:37.396
had been um well the legislature had
approved of more buildings than at

00:37:37.429 --> 00:37:40.717
any other time. But of course those
buildings, most of them were not built

00:37:40.750 --> 00:37:46.727
until the next president's
administration. But the money was set aside

00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:53.697
most of it during his time. Money was
a big problem. Big problem.

00:37:53.730 --> 00:37:58.597
It surely was. And of course
University of Arizona would always get more.

00:37:58.630 --> 00:38:04.517
They got a larger budget than we did.
And uh that was just heart

00:38:04.550 --> 00:38:09.517
sickening to my husband. He didn't
like that one bit.

00:38:09.550 --> 00:38:13.927
Those guys had a lot of friends in the
legislature. That's exactly right.

00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:19.717
And another thing is you see, we did
not have many alarms that had

00:38:19.750 --> 00:38:23.907
degrees from the law school and
graduate schools and that kind of thing

00:38:23.940 --> 00:38:28.287
where you make more money. We had a
lot of teachers out there and it's

00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:31.836
wonderful to have the teachers there
and all of these smart men that

00:38:31.869 --> 00:38:34.657
become lawyers and so forth wouldn't
be anyplace that they hadn't had

00:38:34.690 --> 00:38:40.787
teachers to begin with, but they
weren't bringing in the money. So

00:38:40.820 --> 00:38:47.146
it's a conundrum, isn't it? It was a
real problem. And most of the

00:38:47.179 --> 00:38:52.907
legislators were uh he had graduated
from the University of Arizona rather

00:38:52.940 --> 00:38:57.026
than A. S. U. And I always had the
feeling and maybe this is personal and

00:38:57.059 --> 00:39:00.637
perhaps I shouldn't even bring it out.
But I always had the feeling that

00:39:00.670 --> 00:39:05.967
there were many students at ASU during
the time that we were here that

00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:11.217
wished that they could have gone to
the University of Arizona. It was as

00:39:11.250 --> 00:39:19.250
though they nearly, well it was the
big school, you know, and they felt as

00:39:19.510 --> 00:39:23.307
though they were second class because
they were here. Which is most

00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:29.986
unfortunate. I'm sure that that
feeling does not prevail.

00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:35.586
I don't think so. No, no, no, but I
think that there was too much of it,

00:39:35.619 --> 00:39:42.267
it wasn't with everyone, but there was
too much of it there,

00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:49.456
bob and anne. Okay. Okay. Got all your
questions. Thank you so much. Well

00:39:49.489 --> 00:39:52.309
thank you for having me.