with Wilma Suara Yeah, this is December seven 2007 and I want to thank
you for coming this afternoon and spending some time with us. I'm just
gonna ask you some questions and just as a conversation as we start,
they're not going to hear me on the table, this is edited. So when I ask
you a question, if you would just kind of lead in that lets the audience
know what that question was asked. So first I'm going to talk to you about
your early years where you were born and raised and what your parents did
, what your education was and then we'll just lead on. So can I ask you
that question where you were born and raised and what your what your
family did, evidently you want to know something about my past and I was
born in Missouri and I say Missouri instead of Missouri. So people know
that I'm really from there and I was born in a very small town and when I
was five years old, my father, it was during the depression, my father
decided that he had always wanted to come to phoenix Arizona. So we came
out here and I went to kindergarten in phoenix and because my birthday was
at the wrong time of the year, I couldn't start the first grade. And so
that was their excuse for moving back. So then we moved to Columbia
Missouri after that and of course it was during the depression and people
did people, we're very hard up but my father was in a situation, he was
not wealthy by any means, but he was in a situation where he bought for
taxes a city block and he started building houses during the Depression,
which doesn't make any sense. Um in the on that block of land that he
bought, people thought he was out of his mind, but he didn't build but one
a year and we would move into it and then he would sell it And he would
move out. Well one year he built three um which which worked out fine, but
people just were not building at all. He was about the only one that was
doing any building at that time. And then of course he sold lots in that
area also and those houses are still standing. Incidentally because every
time I go back I go buy those houses to see if they're still there and
they are every single one of them. So that was kind of the beginning. I
went to grade school and of course in Columbia Junior High and high school
and then I went to steven's college and attended the University of
Missouri and got married. I met my husband in a drugstore and um I I knew
good and well that he was not a teacher. He had told me that he was, it
was that he had just gotten out of teaching a class and I did not believe
him. I said no you're here because you're visiting a stevens girl. I know
that's the case. No, I am not. So anyway, he finally convinced me and
asked me to meet him the next morning at 7:30 at this particular drug
store and for a cup of coffee. So I did. But the funny part is I went home
that day and I told my parents I'd met the man I was going to marry and
they thought this kid is out of her gourd. But it worked out that way. And
um
then we moved to texas where he worked on his doctorate and received his
doctorate and they wanted him back at the University of Missouri after
that. And I think the rest is nearly history. We went back there, We were
at the University of Missouri for 20 years except for a brief time when he
was asked to be controller. Well you didn't start out as controller. It
was a little hoover commission and he was asked to be on that. And the
governor evidently liked his work very well and asked him to come come
back to jefferson city, which is the capital of Missouri. And at that time
we moved back there and uh he was there for a short period of time and
then we went back to the University of Missouri in Colombia and lived
there. He was, he went back as acting Dean of business school and Dean of
faculties and
I can't remember how many years he was in the position as dean of faculty
, He was only acting dean of business school as I recall for one year. Um
, The two or 3 years and then the University of Missouri was in a state of
flux because they were becoming a system. And so they were doing away with
the president of each campus. Well, it had always kind of been a system
because they had Kerala which was school of engineering,
engineering minds. M I N E. S. Not M I N. D. S. And
let me see,
we he became dean of faculties then and they were in the state of flux.
And so they became a system and they have now a campus in ST louis and a
campus in Kansas city. And of course the one that roll up but they have a
president over all of it. And my husband was what was equal to the
president of the Columbia campus. What was your major when you were in
college, it was gonna be commercial education. You was your what what's
what's commercial education? Well it was you were going to teach, you're
going to teach? You were going to teach commercial education in those days.
That was, that was good. Did you ever teach? No, no, never did get
married. Where were you? In texas? In texas University of texas in Austin.
Austin, mm hmm liked Austin very, very much. In fact we had hoped that we
would retire there. But when retirement time came, why my parents had
moved out here at the same time as we did because I'm an only child,
my mother had had a stroke and my father was quite elderly and we just
could not see leaving them. So we stayed here but we liked Austin and I
have a grandson that graduated from the University of texas. Do you,
how many Children do you have to have a boy and a girl? There isn't
anything else that's true on a bit. Um
when was, when was the president recruited to issue? in 1971, we came in
one July 1971, He accepted the position about December the 19th, 1970
what influenced his decision to come here and not stay in Missouri? Well
there were several reasons um he felt there was a lot of potential here
for growth and he liked that Missouri is an older school and there wasn't
that same potential.
He felt that there was a lot of promise at this school, it had not
fulfilled its potential at all. So that gave him something to really look
forward to And he always said 10 years then I'll be through because my
what I feel I will have done the things that I want to be able to do And I
hope that he felt at the end of 10 years that he had done those, He was
here at 10 years. Yes, you came in 71, July of 71, It was a very, very
growing time. Yes, it was, the school had not had that kind of growth
before. Of course we've had so much girls since, I mean, you know, this
place is mammoth now. Nobody would recognize it.
I'm sure my husband wouldn't recognize it. Do you happen to remember how
the size of the student body when you guys came? It was about 23-25,000
And it was about 39 when we left. So they used to say, we, that they grew
a college every year. You know, the size of college about 2000 a year. Mm
Hmm.
Um, can you describe what the president's home was like as it existed when
you moved in College Avenue neighborhood? Yeah, the middle school there,
well, we were across the street from the middle school and it had its
advantages and it had its disadvantages. The advantages was, there was a
place to park and in those days the president did entertaining, um, I
would say mass entertaining, not, not small groups. He didn't do small
groups because he felt you got too close to only a few faculty. And if he
had to make a decision, then he had hurt someone. And so his, his feeling
was, you stayed away from buddy buddy system and he lived that way and it
was a little bit difficult for me because I therefore did not have close
friends at that time. And people would say, well there are other
presidents around but they weren't really not on the same level. And so it
was in some ways a very social life, but it was an antisocial too because
you met people that different functions but you didn't really know them
okay. Oh you wanted, oh I was going to tell you about the house. It was a
sprawling three bedroom dan and a very large living room and a very
adequate kitchen with place to eat in it and a very small dining room,
which was unfortunate. So most of the entertaining was done on the outside
, but they were the out of the yard and the backyard was just beautiful.
It truly was. We had a swimming pool and it was kept well and we had
orange trees, lemon trees, grapefruit trees, apricot trees, plum trees, I
used to say I came to Arizona to be a farmer.
It was, it was very lovely. It really was. It was so different from the
house that I moved out of because that was a house that was 100 years old
while we were there and was the oldest building on campus there. And of
course this was a fairly new house.
Did the temperature bother you coming out here? No, because it's a dry
heat? Remember the temperature was no problem at all. I think that each
summer gets a little hotter now as I get older and they say, as you get
older, the heat bothers you more and I'm beginning to believe it.
I think somebody said there's a guy with horns down there that said that
it's a dry heat down there too. That's right. It's a dry heat. We mustn't
forget that. We tell people that. Well, I was back to a, to a class
reunion many years ago and I thought I'd die of the heat and my friends
kept saying, But you live where it's 110 most of the time in the summer
time said it's a dry heat, humidity bothers me too. Oh, it does. Me too.
Can you give us a perspective as your role as the first lady of the issue
? And it's like the faculty, your relationship with the faculty, students
, staff and alumni. I think that we had, I had a lot of,
of
dealings with the faculty because faculty wives were very active at that
time and we were bringing in so many new faculty that it was really nice.
We had such an active newcomers group. And I can honestly say that to this
day. Many of the people that were in the newcomers group are the people
that I know the best because I never did know all the faculty that have
been here a long time because they had their own little groups and they've
been here a long time. They knew each other quite well and these newcomers
that were coming in well, I was actually a newcomer to. So, you know, we
got along fine, I played golf with them and oh, there were many
organizations that the interest groups that they had that I enjoyed. And
we had many functions at the house for the, for the newcomers group and
for faculty wives at large, we had a huge
uh paul, was it a small luncheon or spring? Wish I get my seasons mixed up
in Arizona. I can't remember whether I do things in the fall or the spring
, but we, we had a big luncheon and it was extremely well attended and it
was in the yard and people came, they, they enjoyed it. I remember one
time in particular that Hattie babbitt was the speaker and the faculty
turned, the faculty wives turned out in force. They were all there
who catered for these big functions, the union,
we've never had anybody else. Mhm. And they did, they did commendable job.
They weren't perfect, but they did a good job.
Are there any specific events other than that, that the spring luncheons
that you could think of that? Well, we had a big faculty reception in the
fall every year. And of course that was one time in particular that we
were delighted that there was parking across the street, which of course
they haven't had in many years now. And okay, of course, we entertained
the legislator legislators on many different occasions and we didn't have
the same type of thing as we had had in Missouri because in Missouri we
had engineering week and Journalism week and we were always involved in
those in a big way, but they didn't seem to have the traditions here that
we had there. So in so many ways um I was not as involved in a lot of
things as much here as I have been in Missouri,
which gave me some more free time, which was great.
If what what what do you think that your husband would uh consider his
greatest accomplishments or his greatest challenges?
Well, probably getting money from the legislate horse. Mhm. And I think
that he really enjoyed that challenge. He
he enjoyed the people there and it was something that at the end of the
session, he knew whether he had done a good job or not, whereas a lot of
things in the field of education, it's so it's kind of a never never land.
You don't know for years whether there's been any um anything happened
that you would have liked to have happened, but he did well with the
legislature for that time and he always felt that it was a state
university and the legislature should fund it. Um So I think that he put
that right before them all the time. Hey, this is your school, you fund it
, it isn't done quite that way now, but they're very fortunate they've had
a lot of outside help,
but it's not quite a state university anymore either. That's true.
I hope they never really changed the name. I think that would be awful. I
really rise up,
I spent 10 years. They're getting too don't change the name, I agree. What
happened? Never happened. Um What were the demands placed on you and your
Children as part of the first family of an issue?
Well hopefully
we set an example. I can't say that my daughter did because she resented
uh
being looked up to my husband would never let me wear shorts out in public
and this went on and on and on. Even after we moved away, he wouldn't let
me wear shorts. He says if you're playing golf you can wear shorts, but if
you go to the grocery store. No you put on a dress I guess he was old
fashioned that way. Yes. Uh huh. He really was um
that was one of the things and I guess that you you always realize that
once people knew who you were, that they took a second look because they
wanted to know how you were acting and what you were doing. So you felt as
though you were in a uh the spotlight many times,
it wasn't quite so much like that here as it was in Missouri because the
turnover was so tremendous here, not only at the university but in you
know the growth in this area has just people can't imagine an area growing
like we have grown and Missouri was more stable and people lived there for
generations and generations, grandfather great grandfather went to the
University of Missouri. People in your cities sent their Children to the
University of Missouri and so they knew who the officials were of the
schools, whereas here, um, they weren't quite as tuned into it, but that
was good for us. I think that the president of a issue has always been a
figurehead like Michael Crowe is today that the professors don't quite
draw as many
much observation at the schools as they normally did. Well. Michael Crowe
is off campus, johnny was on campus. I didn't know President Carlos
Hopkins. Well, his building is right down here on, oh no, in Tempe. Really
? Yes, his office is not on campus. Hmm, Maybe I'm wrong about that. But
why would they have this building then? I don't think he's on campus.
Don't quote me that I didn't
founding. Yeah, But isn't his office in that building in Tempe? Yeah, his
office is downtown in Tampa.
So he doesn't really see faculty johnny saw faculty every day many times.
Do you have any observations about the growth of the status of a issue
since the early 80s? Well. It has grown so much. And technically I don't
understand all the things that they've, they've been putting in and doing
, but I'm sure that, uh, for this for the generation of people that it,
that it serves that it's wonderful that they're doing it. How do you think
your husband would? I think that he was he was a positive thinker and he
would feel that it was marvelous. He would feel that he had lost a lot of
the things that we remember of being important when you go to college
because
it is so big that how do you have that feeling that you are really part of
the school? Um You know we would hear people call and yell at each other
across campus. They knew each other and A. S. U. Has grown so much that I
just don't see how in the world they are having a real college experience
here. But it's going to be an experience that will suit them for their
world. But it isn't the kind of experience that my world would have
thought was right.
What have you been doing since you giving up your roles as well? The first
thing we did after johnny retired was we build houses. Um People look at
as in awe when I say that, but my husband had always wanted to do that and
it gave us an opportunity to and so we did, we built three and we had the
third one on the drawing board when he passed away. No we had the 4th one
on the drawing board when he passed away. Did you finish it? No it was
just on the drawing board. Yes. No, we finished three and I sold the last
one after he died. I lived in it 12 years. No, not quite. I can't remember
how many years I lived in it after he died at least seven years after he
died. Are you still playing golf? No, no, no.
What other things do you do? Well, I do play some bridge and I'm active in
P. E. O. And I'm active in church, methodist church in Sun Lakes and I'm
in an investment club and I keep awfully busy. Good. What advice would you
give young people today regarding their collegiate work or family
experiences? Oh my their world is so different from mine that it's awfully
hard for me to give them advice. I'm old enough to be their grandmother
and they are, they're very different. I mean, I know that with my own
grandchildren, their views are so different from mine. I mean my
generation was family oriented and I'm not at all sure that there's this.
I have one grandson that is more family oriented I think than the others.
Did. Your Children go to? My daughter did for three years. She graduated
from here. She started and then she was in the honors college and after
that she wanted to go away for a year. So she did. We thought she would
get her degree from the University of Oregon, but she did not. She then
begged to come back to shoot and then after she got married she moved back
to Oregon. Really, she couldn't make up her mind, could she?
I guess. So,
manny. Okay. I've gone through, I've gone through our questions. I see. I
would like to ask you what,
what were the most memorable things that happened during the time that you
and john were here? Well, some of the things that were really that I
remember quite well were some of the people that we met. Um
I remember meeting robert Penn,
Is it Warren? Yes. Uh to me that was a marvelous evening. The evening that
we spent with him. It was
it was inspirational, that's all there was to it. And
Mcfarland who had been, I believe, United States representative and also
Governor of Arizona. He was just, I mean, he was delightful. I really
loved the man Goldwater, of course Hugh downs and there were many others.
But those are the ones that really that I believe stand out the most with
their advanced. I mean, were you guys here when there was the anti war
demonstrations, things like you know? And what you had here was miners as
far as we were concerned. Very minor. Mhm. We were not our only problems
were football,
there were there those demonstrations at the University of Missouri? Oh
yes, we had them. We surely did. All of our windows were knocked out one
evening. Yes. Mhm.
So back in the midwest and our son was in school at Berkeley at the time
and he would he would call home and tell us what to expect because
everything seemed to start right there and so we we knew what to expect,
but there's no way to really prepare for it. How do you know that they're
going to surround your house in the middle of the night and throw bricks
through the windows
and you know, it wasn't a personal thing, they wanted him to close down
the school and there was no way he was going to close down the school
because that wasn't going to stop the war and many people uh sent their
Children to school for an education not to have the school closed down.
And afterwards we found out that many of the schools that were closed down
, The parents were extremely mad because they had to send their kids to
school an extra semester. That wasn't good for their bank account. That's
true, that's true. How long did that go on? I would just say the spring of
It was a 68, 69, 69 I believe. Spring of 69. But it was really funny
because before that um the campus was such a happy place and once can't
state happened, why the students became totally silent, they just shuffled
their feet. They didn't talk to each other. It was it was a mad group of
young people.
I think they they felt it very deeply the shooting, it brought it all home.
That's what brought it all home? It surely was. That's right. Do you
think that this war that we're involved in now evolve into something like
that with students? I don't believe it will. I hope not.
What you see in the other war, We were in Vietnam. Was it the Vietnam or?
Yes, we've had so many wars,
they were drafting. And it's always been my theory that the college
students that were the students that were in college and they had good
good friends that had been drafted and we're over there serving that in a
way, they had a guilty conscience about that. They they felt fortunate
that they were in school. But there was there was something there that
they probably couldn't put their finger on.
That's true. And I don't think that today's students feel that way because
we still have a volunteer force over there, which is kind of hard to
believe. But we do.
My philosophy is they didn't get involved here because it was too hot. You
can't, you can't demonstrate what's 150, you probably have something there.
Uh,
is there anything else about your time here at a s you or your husband?
You'd like to share with us that we haven't asked. Well, there probably is
a lot of things, but I'm not coming up with them. As I told you, my long
term memory may not be working as it should.
Who was, who replaced the president's wada? Who was the next president of
the nelsons? Yes. So you stayed in a Arizona state in Tempe? Uh We moved
to Mesa because that was the first house we built and then we moved to
Tampa because we built one there and then we moved to phoenix because we
built one up to the side of the mountain in Albuquerque. So we moved
around a lot. Was this a passion of his to build things? Yes. Yes. I
always said he who is a frustrated engineer.
How was that? His was always study education or was was engineering
something that maybe he he just liked it, he just liked it. He liked it.
Yes. No, his field was international relations and
ah
I want to say constitutional law, international relations and maybe that
was it. You said he served on the little hoover commission. What was that
? That was a commission that I guess several states had it, they had it in
Missouri where they went in and examined how all the departments were
working and recommended ways to save money for the state basically. That's
what it was. Were there other national or state commissions that he worked
on? Well, he was on the National PBS board actually, he was the last year
, he was here, he was chairman to find a new chairman for that for that
board. What is that? The, the public public broadcasting company PBS. PBS.
That's interesting was when did channel eight start? Did that start while
you were here? No, it was it started several years before before that.
So he always supported. That's right. That's right. And it was kind of
funny because we had a Channel Eight in Colombia too. That was a
television station and it was run by the university
Life with Channel eight would be without channel. It would be very So
we're very fortunate to have channel eight here. We really are. And
sometimes I forget that we have it. You know, I will Be watching something
else and I think we'll wonder what's on Channel eight and it's usually
much better than what's anyplace else. I actually watch it create every
morning between five and six. So do you cooking shows? Uh huh. I see. I
see. I always support channel and then they have the yoga program and all
these other exercise programs. But I don't do those. I go to max life so I
get a real good workout. Well, I'm in community college.
Well, I thank you.
I was wondering if you would be glad or if you would share with us your
husband's
challenges related to he issues academic. Oh,
I'm glad you.
Yes, I'm awfully glad you brought that up because that was a real problem.
Um The faculty did not think of themselves as being part of a university.
They continually thought of themselves as being part of a teacher's
college, you might say because we had not been a university too long when
we came here. And so that was something that he said it's walking, it's
like walking through molasses to drag them up to.
Is that Oh,
alright, That's okay. They just did not want to think of themselves as a
university and unfortunately that mentality hurt the university at that
time and most of those professors are not here now. But I think that most
of them stayed. But we brought in a lot of new professors during johnny's
administration,
but they're older now. And I think that the present president was not shy
about getting rid of people.
What about with the athletic area? Because during that time we have come
through a number of national championships in baseball. Basketball was
highly supported by the Mhm Coach question developed the football programs
too. I don't remember when we went into Iraq we were in the wax to the
Western, but it seemed that a lot of the focus of the alumni and the
community was tied more to athletics than to unfortunately,
you know, Unfortunately that's probably true at all universities. We're
probably not the only one that felt that way. The alarms it.
We don't have anything that he said. So we don't know what you're talking.
What I need for you to say is about. Alright.
Alright. Yeah. I was talking to bob wasn't, which is nice, but all right.
I'm sorry, sort of set the statement alright. And so set it with as
athletics versus alright. Academic. Yes. Well I think there's another
subject that we should touch upon and that is the mentality the feeling of
the professors at A. S. U. When my husband came. Um It had been it had not
been a university very long and too many of the professors and many of
them were excellent teachers. But they had done little research and they
did not feel they thought of themselves as still part of a teacher's
college instead of a university. And my husband was adamant about research.
He said we are a university and so we must do research at this point in
time. Um Yeah, the board was not too happy about that either. I remember
he took his resignation in his pocket one time saying unless we can do
research, I'm out of here. And so that was kind of the beginning of
research. They of course had done it before and they had offered a few
phds but not many. And since research has grown and look where we are now
, it's marvelous. It truly is. And
I think at that time the alums were not too interested in whether there
was research or not, they were more interested in a football team and the
same was true of the people downtown. I'm quite sure they feel differently
now. They have grown up also. Um We did have a good football team, good
basketball team, baseball team the whole works. Um We were in a smaller
conference than we are in now and that makes a big difference. Um Too
often the alums get so attached to the football team and the other
athletics in a school that they forget about everything else and That
certainly was the case here at one time that things have worked out for
the best I think. And I'm sure that some of the things that happened did
not happen exactly as the press I told them. But you can't argue with the
press, you just have to go along and let time perhaps explain it. Do you
think that john felt when he left that he had made those changes? Do you
think, I feel that
when my husband retired that he wished that he had been able to do more.
But he felt that many of the changes we're beginning to take shape and so
that was a good feeling. You never feel that you've done everything that
you possibly could, but you do the best you can under the circumstances.
And also with the money that you have and at the time that he was a issue
, money was still scarce. We were not issuing bonds for buildings and so
forth. And more buildings had been um
had been um well the legislature had approved of more buildings than at
any other time. But of course those buildings, most of them were not built
until the next president's administration. But the money was set aside
most of it during his time. Money was a big problem. Big problem.
It surely was. And of course University of Arizona would always get more.
They got a larger budget than we did. And uh that was just heart
sickening to my husband. He didn't like that one bit.
Those guys had a lot of friends in the legislature. That's exactly right.
And another thing is you see, we did not have many alarms that had
degrees from the law school and graduate schools and that kind of thing
where you make more money. We had a lot of teachers out there and it's
wonderful to have the teachers there and all of these smart men that
become lawyers and so forth wouldn't be anyplace that they hadn't had
teachers to begin with, but they weren't bringing in the money. So
it's a conundrum, isn't it? It was a real problem. And most of the
legislators were uh he had graduated from the University of Arizona rather
than A. S. U. And I always had the feeling and maybe this is personal and
perhaps I shouldn't even bring it out. But I always had the feeling that
there were many students at ASU during the time that we were here that
wished that they could have gone to the University of Arizona. It was as
though they nearly, well it was the big school, you know, and they felt as
though they were second class because they were here. Which is most
unfortunate. I'm sure that that feeling does not prevail.
I don't think so. No, no, no, but I think that there was too much of it,
it wasn't with everyone, but there was too much of it there,
bob and anne. Okay. Okay. Got all your questions. Thank you so much. Well
thank you for having me.