WEBVTT 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:04.087 interview here at A. S. U. Or the Arizona State University retirees 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:12.120 Association. I'm pam Stevenson and today is monday november the 24th Of 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:16.967 2003 and I'll let you introduce yourself and give us your name and tell us 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:22.326 what was your position at MSU when you retired I was full professor of 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:27.607 health and Physical education and your your name, my name is Anne Pittman 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:33.457 and uh I taught in the physical education department. Let's go back a 00:00:33.490 --> 00:00:37.987 little bit and get just some background about your beginnings like when 00:00:38.020 --> 00:00:43.186 you were born and where you were born, I was born in Camp Hill Alabama, 00:00:43.219 --> 00:00:50.917 the best little town in east Alabama. It says under the sign and October 00:00:50.950 --> 00:00:56.006 20, 2019 1918. So I'm over 39. 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.107 Um 00:00:58.140 --> 00:01:05.807 I moved to texas for the last couple of years of high school and 00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:13.607 then I went to University of texas for my bachelor's degree. Tell me about 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:18.277 your family. This is a large family. Ah there were three Children, 2 boys 00:01:18.310 --> 00:01:25.277 and I was a girl. The two boys are older than I and my dad was a traveling 00:01:25.310 --> 00:01:31.507 salesman. They call them marketing people now but he 00:01:31.540 --> 00:01:38.736 traveled quite a lot. My mom was when she was younger was a milliner in 00:01:38.769 --> 00:01:44.967 Montgomery Nachman Mercedes which was a uh famous department store at that 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:51.656 time. That's where they met. Um Then we settled in Camp Hill, they settled 00:01:51.689 --> 00:01:56.096 in Camp Hill and that's where the three Children were born. What took you 00:01:56.129 --> 00:02:02.727 to texas. Um Well my father had passed away and I had an aunt living in 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:08.656 texas and her husband had passed away. So my mother wanted to move out and 00:02:08.689 --> 00:02:13.707 be with her. So that's one reason. The other reason is my older brother 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:20.267 had already gone out and had gotten a job with Sun Oil Company in texas in 00:02:20.300 --> 00:02:27.186 Beaumont texas. And so we moved out and I spent the last two years of high 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:32.967 school there in beaumont texas. 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:41.000 Tell me about in high school where you're a good student. Uh yes, I was 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:46.967 captain of the Royal Guard, which was pep. Pep squads were very popular in 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.737 those days, especially around texas. They marched at football games and, 00:02:51.770 --> 00:02:59.770 and um wore costumes of the colors of the school played a lot of tennis 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:07.840 and competed in tennis in high school. And I, I enjoyed high school, had 00:03:09.460 --> 00:03:16.536 good teachers and I, mm hmm. I don't think I made always, but I made B's 00:03:16.569 --> 00:03:23.856 and A's mostly and um made, made good enough classic background to qualify 00:03:23.889 --> 00:03:31.376 for for college. We took latin in those days in high school. So we took 00:03:31.409 --> 00:03:36.487 some subjects that high schools don't even know about these days had 00:03:36.520 --> 00:03:43.106 literature, chemistry, latin. Um, 00:03:43.139 --> 00:03:48.256 I took one did did take a course in bookkeeping. I don't know why, but I 00:03:48.289 --> 00:03:54.147 did, but all the teachers that I had in high school, especially texas were 00:03:54.180 --> 00:04:02.180 excellent. And um, so going to school was fun and games and 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:06.846 enjoy it. And so when you went on to college, what were you going to major 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:11.767 in? Did you have any plans what you wanted to do? Um Actually I went to 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:17.757 Lamar Junior College which is in Beaumont the first year and I majored in 00:04:17.790 --> 00:04:24.486 Prelaw because I thought I wanted to be a lawyer and then when I transfer 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.806 the University of texas in Austin 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:31.777 I'm the kind of person who likes to be out of doors and not indoors a lot. 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:37.087 So I changed the physical education and so the three years I was in 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:43.606 University of texas was for a bachelor's degree and in physical education. 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.207 Pretty big change. Yeah. 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:51.937 Actually people I think don't understand that if you're in physical 00:04:51.970 --> 00:04:57.757 education it isn't all activity. The background you take is basically a 00:04:57.790 --> 00:05:03.127 liberal arts and so we take everything everybody else takes plus core 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:09.007 subjects in whatever you major in. And in those days it was highly 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:16.387 scientific. I had courses in Anatomy and physiology from okay two very 00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:23.007 famous teaches it in that particular area at the university of texas. A 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:27.937 matter of fact I was so good at Anatomy and physiology that they invited 00:05:27.970 --> 00:05:35.970 me to do um assistant teaching in the summer time in the lab courses in 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.897 the biology department. But I didn't do it because I already had a job 00:05:41.930 --> 00:05:47.296 with the Austin recreation department on and the parks and recreation 00:05:47.329 --> 00:05:54.967 division and so I worked on the playgrounds in the summertime for extra 00:05:55.000 --> 00:06:00.637 cash and keep me busy, what were you planning to do when you got out of 00:06:00.670 --> 00:06:03.306 college? 00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:07.986 I knew I wanted to be a teacher was, there's no doubt about that. I guess 00:06:08.019 --> 00:06:12.017 it's you know you want to be a teacher when you boss people around a lot 00:06:12.050 --> 00:06:18.877 or give directions or act no, it all about about things. But you decided 00:06:18.910 --> 00:06:24.007 that you wanted to teach in physical education? Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:28.726 Okay. What was your first job when you got out of school? I taught 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:35.967 elementary school, physical education and science at robert e lee 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:42.106 elementary school in austin texas was the first first job I had and that 00:06:42.139 --> 00:06:48.007 was that was a lot of fun. It was a new school and the playgrounds were 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:56.040 mostly dirt and rock. And I remember 1, 1 kind of funny incident, I had 00:06:59.139 --> 00:07:03.337 The first grade, there were 55 youngsters in the first grade and they came 00:07:03.370 --> 00:07:09.616 to school and little pinafores and all dressed up starched and just nique. 00:07:09.649 --> 00:07:14.327 So I had them out on the playground playing brownies and fairies and 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:19.106 that's on that playground that was pretty rugged for him. And they looked 00:07:19.139 --> 00:07:23.967 like they'd been in a bad mitten match when we got through. But there was 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:29.406 a lady standing under a tree near where we were playing and when I got in 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:33.746 she came up and introduced herself, she was my supervisor from the main 00:07:33.779 --> 00:07:38.697 office and she said did you know there was poison ivy under that tree over 00:07:38.730 --> 00:07:42.726 there because I had asked a youngster who said she was tired to go sit 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:50.106 under the tree and rest while we finished playing. And evidently she sat 00:07:50.139 --> 00:07:54.906 on poison ivy. I didn't even know it was there. So you learned something 00:07:54.939 --> 00:08:02.939 that day. So how long did you teach there? Just one year And then I'm 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:13.339 took a job with the Y. M. Y. W. C. A. In ST louis and taught in ST louis 00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:17.906 for 00:08:17.939 --> 00:08:25.687 at the Y. I taught swimming and gymnastics and will exercise classes and 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:32.106 fencing and whatever else they need first aid. And 00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:38.927 um I was there a couple of years and then I met the department of Pe 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:43.447 department chairman at Washington University and she invited me to come 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:48.217 and teach there. So I left the Y. W. C. A. And went over to Washington 00:08:48.250 --> 00:08:55.606 University and taught there for a couple of years while I was there. I um 00:08:55.639 --> 00:09:03.639 this was sort of it at the beginning of World War two and while I was 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:11.679 there ah I started taking flying lessons and ended up with a pilot's 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:18.907 license because I thought maybe I'd like to get in the 00:09:18.940 --> 00:09:26.940 the Army Air Force had a ferry pilots a group of women who Ferried planes 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:34.157 around for the for the Air Force in Sweetwater texas. And so I was going 00:09:34.190 --> 00:09:41.146 to apply for that. So I got my pilot's license and I applied for it and I 00:09:41.179 --> 00:09:44.907 was supposed to go in the I think july 00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:47.106 first 00:09:47.139 --> 00:09:54.427 1940 for things. Classic suite sweetwater texas where they trained trained 00:09:54.460 --> 00:10:02.460 you to ferry pilot book. They canceled the class because there was no the 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:08.447 women were just doing the ferry work. There was no security whatsoever 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.087 insurance or they weren't really connected with the government. So if they 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:16.707 got killed or something happened to them when they had no resources, 00:10:16.740 --> 00:10:23.947 Jackie Cochran was head of the the pilots group. So I didn't actually get 00:10:23.980 --> 00:10:29.957 to to do that because of them canceling the class I was supposed to go in. 00:10:29.990 --> 00:10:33.407 So I went on to 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:40.356 new york university to get my masters degree. So I went from there from 00:10:40.389 --> 00:10:46.106 Washington University up to over to new york to 00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:51.327 get my master's degree And the department with a pretty famous person at 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:56.457 that time. JB nash who was quite well known in the area of recreation and 00:10:56.490 --> 00:10:58.807 physical education. 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:03.516 So you weren't able to become a ferry pilot. No. No. And I would have 00:11:03.549 --> 00:11:07.106 loved to. 00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:11.256 So when you got your masters degree then what did you do? I went back and 00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:17.106 taught at the university of texas and um 00:11:17.139 --> 00:11:24.106 uh Anna, his whose sister of Alger hiss was chairman of that department. 00:11:24.139 --> 00:11:28.927 And I'm I'm sure more than quite a few people know who Alger was because 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:36.126 he was Mhm well publicized in the media over the years. But Anna was in 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:39.986 charge of the department and I had gone to school there and so they knew I 00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:47.907 was etcetera. So it was not too hard to go back and teach there. 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:53.006 So how long were you there? I was there from 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:56.606 ah 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:59.006 40. 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:03.226 These numbers are not absolutely correct but whose, whose nobody's sitting 00:12:03.259 --> 00:12:11.259 around here to check me on them. Um Maybe 46 : 51. And 00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:24.396 yeah, that's then I I taught after that I filled in for a person who was 00:12:24.429 --> 00:12:31.246 on sabbatical that what is now University of Northern colorado, greeley 00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:37.907 colorado filled in a year there. And then um 00:12:37.940 --> 00:12:42.596 after that I got in skiing and all the fun things you do in northern 00:12:42.629 --> 00:12:50.629 colorado during that time. Then after that I am came to the p convention 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:57.687 which was in L. A. And I drove through Tempe Arizona and there were a 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:04.396 couple of people on the staff here that I had known in texas and one was 00:13:04.429 --> 00:13:11.006 Mary Palace and there was one of the early men's golf tournaments going on 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:17.177 over over Arizona country club boy. The smell of orange blossoms in april 00:13:17.210 --> 00:13:24.927 and and golf made it rather easy for me too, decided that this was a 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:31.297 pretty nice place. But I met Naina Murphy at the convention, she was 00:13:31.330 --> 00:13:37.927 chairman of the department here at the issue and asked if she needed some 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:44.856 help and she said yes, so that's the contact to come here And I came here 00:13:44.889 --> 00:13:52.236 in 19 1952 when you first came here. What was your first position? Um, 00:13:52.269 --> 00:13:58.167 instructor And what did you teach? Well, you teach a little bit of 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:05.067 everything. I taught tennis and dance and golf and whatever, you know, was 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:12.736 needed. And a couple of the methods courses and 00:14:12.769 --> 00:14:19.476 teaching methods courses. But I've taught tennis from, I didn't teach 00:14:19.509 --> 00:14:23.687 tennis the first year I was here, but I did beginning in second year I was 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:28.807 here and Nina was quite, 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:33.047 it was well known for believing that women should have the opportunity to 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:39.266 to compete. So I was really in my media when I met her because that's what 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:47.299 I thought too. And so we took off from there and since there was no 00:14:47.950 --> 00:14:55.077 organized competition for women um, except play days, which were just kind 00:14:55.110 --> 00:15:03.110 of fun things. Um, I am started forming a tennis team and if you have a 00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:10.896 team and they practice, you've got to have somebody to compete with. So 00:15:10.929 --> 00:15:18.929 the next step was to find competition which took up the rest of my life. 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.467 So was tennis the main thing that you taught here? Well, it wasn't 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:28.307 actually the main thing. You teach a full schedule and tennis classes too. 00:15:28.340 --> 00:15:34.246 And I always taught all, even the competitive tennis that I taught was a 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:41.516 class called advanced tennis because I didn't get paid within none of the 00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:45.846 women got paid for any of the sports that they, they sponsored 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:53.879 competitively. Um, so you got paid by the hours on your schedule. 00:15:54.539 --> 00:16:02.539 So that was the way we got paid mm the men got money, we didn't 00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:08.167 um tell me a little bit what was the issue in the athletic department like 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:13.307 when you came here was actually part of the athletic department or 00:16:13.340 --> 00:16:21.340 women's p. Was in um liberal arts college of liberal arts. No, no no. Um 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:31.976 We had six tennis courts done by Arizona concrete rock company over where 00:16:32.009 --> 00:16:37.866 greater damages. South Park parking lot is now and they were the fastest 00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:45.899 tennis courts in the whole wide world. And uh so we started there and 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:51.567 because I've been in texas and I had played tennis in texas, a lot of the 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:59.600 texas people knew that I that we gave scholarships and we gave activity 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.256 scholarships like the band gave or chemistry department cave anybody gave 00:17:04.289 --> 00:17:11.707 , they were not athletic scholarships and but people heard that a good 00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:16.687 tennis player could come here and get some help with their tuition and 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:23.637 fees. So I started getting some really nice young tennis players from down 00:17:23.670 --> 00:17:28.756 texas way, which meant I had to step up my energies that creating some 00:17:28.789 --> 00:17:32.417 kind of competitive program. We're kind of fortunate because it was 00:17:32.450 --> 00:17:38.597 Arizona open Arizona close tournaments run by tennis people here. And then 00:17:38.630 --> 00:17:42.107 there was the Southwest 00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:49.607 Tennis Association. So I use those tournaments as competitive basis for um 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:56.006 for these people to play in. And we we did rather well, 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:01.756 how large was the department of that time um in numbers, I'm not quite 00:18:01.789 --> 00:18:07.806 sure, but there were a c 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:14.417 They're about 10 faculty people in the department. So Uh huh. The dance 00:18:14.450 --> 00:18:22.076 department was quite active and uh because of majors, majors in physical 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:27.806 education for women were generated by that department. And the men's PE 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:34.306 majors were under the guise of the men's PE department. Rudy Leveque was 00:18:34.339 --> 00:18:42.107 um head of the men's PE program and Naina Murphy was ahead of our 00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:49.207 shenanigans over there. So 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.006 that's a bit, it was a busy busy department. Mhm. 00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:02.207 What was a s you like at that time? Well, 14th Street was a muddy quagmire 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:07.407 of mud And there were cotton fields or whatever they're raised from 14th 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:14.947 Street. Always south to tooth on I think. But and where we are right now, 00:19:14.980 --> 00:19:22.980 a little bit to the west of here was some tPS, it looked like indian tPS. 00:19:22.990 --> 00:19:28.476 It was a tourist court. And then beyond that was a little grocery store 00:19:28.509 --> 00:19:34.006 and some little tourist cabins 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:37.907 beyond that down to Mcallister 00:19:37.940 --> 00:19:45.940 and Goodwin Stadium was on the corner of college and it's and it was on 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:54.306 the corner of McDowell is that it didn't go all the way up to ah college 00:19:54.339 --> 00:19:58.556 but it was there the second set of tennis courts that they built for us 00:19:58.589 --> 00:20:05.526 was because they started damage project quite early and we had they had to 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:09.597 dig up those tennis courts. So they built tennis courts on the east side 00:20:09.630 --> 00:20:17.630 of Goodwin Stadium for the next step that I used for classes and for 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:24.697 competition and bobby winkles had a baseball, his baseball field was right 00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:30.566 back of the tennis courts and they used to yell when they hit a fly ball 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:35.097 over there, they yelled heads up on the tennis court. And incidentally 00:20:35.130 --> 00:20:40.847 when he was here being honored down at the baseball stadium, what he 00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:47.647 remembered that and when I saw him laughed over the number of times we had 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:52.766 to grab our head because the guys were knocking balls over on the tennis 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.506 court. 00:20:56.539 --> 00:21:01.746 But I think there were about 4500 students when I came. Did you settle 00:21:01.779 --> 00:21:07.316 here in Tempe or? Well, I thought for a while I wasn't gonna settle here 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:11.637 because I looked around looking for a place to stay. And every time they 00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:15.236 opened the door to show me the house, a great burst of hot air would come 00:21:15.269 --> 00:21:20.836 out and you would sort of, you know, shrink. So I finally told nana Murphy 00:21:20.869 --> 00:21:25.967 , I said, I can't find a place to live, I'm gonna have to go back to texas. 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:32.387 So she talked to Kimber Goodwin And he had a house down on 5th Street On 00:21:32.420 --> 00:21:39.687 6th Street is to be exact. And Mary Bunty the Grady Gammage is secretary 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:44.586 lived upstairs and there was a part two apartments downstairs and nobody 00:21:44.619 --> 00:21:50.107 was in one of them. So she talked him into letting us move in there. So, 00:21:50.140 --> 00:21:56.407 um, that's settled a housing problem until um, 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:04.306 Del Webb decided to build campus homes and then we bought over there. 00:22:04.339 --> 00:22:08.726 Um, what stands out to to you about to tell us a little about the growth 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:14.707 of your career here. You obviously did decide to stay? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:20.667 How did your career progress? Well, I sort of grew along with the school 00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:27.336 , I guess you'd say I um I went to stanford and got my doctor's degree and 00:22:27.369 --> 00:22:33.427 of course that helps with promotion. Uh whatever. I had already written 00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:39.967 one dance book and so I was involved in writing several editions while I 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:47.246 was here of that, which was kind of fun to do. And I was involved in, we 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:54.927 had a square dance club, which I ran devils and games. And in addition to 00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:02.316 the tennis, as I told you before, I taught dance to and uh square dance 00:23:02.349 --> 00:23:06.707 was kind of a big thing in the valley when I first came here. So that was 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:13.717 a lot of fun too. Meet and call for various groups around the valley and I 00:23:13.750 --> 00:23:19.637 was a fairly good caller and that gave me a lot of resources for the 00:23:19.670 --> 00:23:26.556 writing of the book, which included folks square social and then novelty 00:23:26.589 --> 00:23:34.589 dancing and dances. And as I say, while I was still 00:23:36.740 --> 00:23:42.806 busy with everything else. Um, I got my doctor's degree from stanford 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:44.907 University, 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:51.207 so that took a care of a lot of summers too. 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:57.397 I did, I did a study of, I did my research on the san Carlos indian 00:23:57.430 --> 00:24:04.867 reservation, working with teenagers and instrumental activity study which 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:09.137 was the basis for my research. What what does that mean? What's 00:24:09.170 --> 00:24:15.457 instrumental activity? Well it's um a list of activities that the group 00:24:15.490 --> 00:24:23.256 does and what those activities mean to them and what outcomes they ah get 00:24:23.289 --> 00:24:31.289 from doing them and what involvement in them mean to them and you get some 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:37.407 idea of their life goals, what they want to do, what their ambitions are 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:45.440 to make it simple life goals is a word that we used but it's easy to say 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:52.766 there interests and what they plan to do with their lives. How did you get 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:59.607 involved with doing that on the indian reservation? Um 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:05.476 While I was at stanford I worked with the education department, there was 00:25:05.509 --> 00:25:12.857 very good about letting you do wild things. So I worked with George and 00:25:12.890 --> 00:25:19.036 Louise Spindler who were anthropologist and I got interested in studying 00:25:19.069 --> 00:25:21.707 american indians 00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:28.657 from some of their work that I knew about and read about. And actually I 00:25:28.690 --> 00:25:34.607 think what really made me decide actually to do, it was once I checked 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.806 book out of the library at stanford called 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:43.197 Games of North american indians, it was a very thick book. And when I 00:25:43.230 --> 00:25:49.486 opened it, the last the card in, it Is that the last time it had been 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:53.107 checked out was 1924. 00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:55.357 So 00:25:55.390 --> 00:26:03.390 this was this was in the this was in the the 50s and early 60s. And um I 00:26:04.579 --> 00:26:09.836 was interested in the games and one of the ones that I was interested in 00:26:09.869 --> 00:26:13.036 that I wanted to find out a little about the reason I checked the book out 00:26:13.069 --> 00:26:18.857 was let me sticks, it's a game in which you bounce sticks together and 00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:26.367 then pass them around the circle of people and they're called dice. And 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:31.796 I'm an american Girl Scouts and Campfire Girls and I guess they teach them 00:26:31.829 --> 00:26:34.857 in school. I taught enough people how to play it. So I hope they're 00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:39.717 teaching it in school. It was a lot of fun. Um, so I was looking into the 00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:47.296 background of that game and then I just decided that I would do something 00:26:47.329 --> 00:26:53.506 in the area of indian games. And then um, 00:26:53.539 --> 00:26:58.877 I went down to the reservation and I remember when I got out of the car I 00:26:58.910 --> 00:27:03.417 looked around and I thought boy not too many people in the state of 00:27:03.450 --> 00:27:08.107 Arizona know all this exists down here. You know, not, not very many 00:27:08.140 --> 00:27:13.336 people even go there, they just pass up and down the highway or just know 00:27:13.369 --> 00:27:21.177 it's there. And um I met uh a couple of people on the reservation who were 00:27:21.210 --> 00:27:28.407 , who one of them became my interpreter sort of, they speak english, but 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:33.637 you need somebody to two contact the young people that I wanted to 00:27:33.670 --> 00:27:37.006 interview because I was doing with teenagers. 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:43.717 So that's pretty much the story of that. But I drove up and down the road 00:27:43.750 --> 00:27:50.697 from here to globe to san Carlos many times over. It took about three 00:27:50.730 --> 00:27:56.927 years. It's you doing what you call, they call a field study but stand for 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:02.976 people or they like for you to do stuff like that and they don't call you 00:28:03.009 --> 00:28:06.236 up and say you better hurry up and do this or do that or do the other 00:28:06.269 --> 00:28:10.407 thing. And um, 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.457 so they didn't push me so to speak, but they were very cooperative. And so 00:28:15.490 --> 00:28:21.217 that was your doctoral thesis. That was it. Did you ever follow up on that 00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:26.367 later and do more with native americans? Well actually I got a telephone 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:31.387 call, we had put a telephone on the tennis courts, which was kind of 00:28:31.420 --> 00:28:36.026 unusual. But we had a couple of accidents on the intramural field near the 00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:44.059 tennis courts and there was no way to get help. So finally the university 00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:51.107 put a telephone out there and I got a call one day and the voice said, I 00:28:51.140 --> 00:28:55.407 think we played night ball 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:01.607 tonight and I almost fainted because I was interested in night ball also. 00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:06.917 So sure enough I jumped in the car and took a couple of people with me and 00:29:06.950 --> 00:29:13.806 went down to the reservation and night ball is um very important game. Um 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:21.839 , and I saw, I saw sent uh Apache indians that I never had seen in the 00:29:23.390 --> 00:29:31.390 agency um area. That's what they call this little town agency. Um Big 00:29:34.539 --> 00:29:42.539 western dressed strong ranch type people that lived off the reservation. 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:50.347 And um, they played night ball, which is composed of two teams and they 00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:57.417 dig a pit in the ground and it's full of sand and they have a ball that 00:29:57.450 --> 00:30:05.397 they make out of the root of Saguaro and one team holds a blanket up in 00:30:05.430 --> 00:30:11.207 front of it so they can't see. And the other team comes over and they mark 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:17.256 across in the sand and then they bury the ball in the sand someplace and 00:30:17.289 --> 00:30:24.707 the other team is supposed to come over and they take a stick and 00:30:24.740 --> 00:30:31.377 Stab it in the quiet one of the four quadrants and if they hit the right 00:30:31.410 --> 00:30:39.410 quadrant, um, they win the prize and the prize is the world like saddles 00:30:39.829 --> 00:30:47.829 and guns and all kinds of fairly expensive um, ranch type, country western 00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:55.256 stuff. And there was, there was a lot of teasing and, and competition 00:30:55.289 --> 00:31:02.286 between the two sides and I had a tape in my purse and so I was crawling 00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:10.319 around taping all the sounds and, and so on. Still have the tape. And so 00:31:10.670 --> 00:31:14.726 that was pretty exciting because they hadn't played night ball on that 00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:21.717 reservation. The last time I played was 1938 they told me. And um, partly 00:31:21.750 --> 00:31:27.207 because I asked about it, I think a lot while I was there that sort of 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:32.627 stimulated their ideas and it kind of depends on the older members of the 00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:36.496 tribe remembering how to do it. And so it was good that they did it 00:31:36.529 --> 00:31:44.529 because that taught some of the new younger a patch is how to do it. 00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:50.556 I hope I'm not boring. You getting back to your career on campus? That's 00:31:50.589 --> 00:31:55.816 kind of diverting up. It's interesting um, you know, are there any things 00:31:55.849 --> 00:31:59.756 that stand out in your memory of some special events and during your 00:31:59.789 --> 00:32:04.677 career on campus sort of things? But well, I remember when Grady Gammage 00:32:04.710 --> 00:32:12.710 stood upon the union um porch and pronounced as a university that was uh 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:18.976 gala affair, everybody cheered and we're glad to get out of being Arizona 00:32:19.009 --> 00:32:26.397 State College, which it was when I first came here and then um, we won 00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:34.430 three national tennis titles while I was here, uh 71 and 72, we won um, 00:32:34.539 --> 00:32:41.306 back to back nationals with the same people And then we went again in 74 00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:46.266 and of course then, because I was pretty well known in the tennis circles 00:32:46.299 --> 00:32:52.857 , we had a couple of three national tournaments held here on, on campus 00:32:52.890 --> 00:32:58.496 after they built white man Kenneth center. Most of that took place, that's 00:32:58.529 --> 00:33:02.806 sort of, the university is concerned. Generally speaking, 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:08.607 I guess it's a damage thing. It's about 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:14.187 the biggest event that I can remember. Of course, a lot of, a lot of 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:18.397 events, like building a swimming pool was a big event, you know, because 00:33:18.430 --> 00:33:22.407 we didn't have a swimming pool. I never could understand why Arizona state 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:28.056 it wasn't a swimming place with all the heat and stuff but it just never 00:33:28.089 --> 00:33:36.089 was. But it we finally got the first pool which is now non existent and 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:42.907 mona plummer. Um The pool is taking place of that 00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:48.207 next question. Um Let's see. 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:53.006 We'll talk about the growth of your department and you know as things. 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:56.407 Well it um 00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:04.440 it grew well enough to cause um the building of the new gym which was 00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:12.907 built on the Clyde smith's um Clyde smith was head of 00:34:12.940 --> 00:34:18.006 athletics and 00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:23.606 The two departments sort of came together. I don't remember specifically 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:31.236 the year but the men and women's groups filing became one. So we had 00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:34.597 faculty of men and the faculty of women and that became the athletic 00:34:34.630 --> 00:34:39.307 department. No no no it wasn't. Physical education, physical education. 00:34:39.340 --> 00:34:45.197 Clyde smith was head of included athletics but he was chairman of of the 00:34:45.230 --> 00:34:53.230 P. E. Departments and he had he had people in men and women's P. Separate 00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:02.307 . I served as chairman of women's pe for a while after nine he retired and 00:35:02.340 --> 00:35:09.907 we built a new women's gym when Homer Durham was here because he was here 00:35:09.940 --> 00:35:14.706 when we had the the 00:35:14.739 --> 00:35:22.739 opening of that building and um that was quite a a nice affair. And 00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:29.106 Naina Murphy was quite a 00:35:29.139 --> 00:35:36.597 quite a person and working for her was a real and good thing for me and 00:35:36.630 --> 00:35:40.307 tell me a little bit about what was she like 00:35:40.340 --> 00:35:48.340 um As I said in the beginning, she okayed women's competition. And 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:53.807 I used to when we go away and win trophies, I used to put them on her desk 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:59.936 and she took great pride in in those things. But she was very um a modest 00:35:59.969 --> 00:36:07.646 person actually for a person she did one famous thing which probably is 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:15.197 not not a famous item to many people, but the infield fly rule in softball. 00:36:15.230 --> 00:36:22.327 And I think in baseball was one of the her contributions to competitive 00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:28.296 sports because there was no such rule until she 00:36:28.329 --> 00:36:33.256 did whatever she had to do to get him to put in to make it an instrumental 00:36:33.289 --> 00:36:39.327 thing in in softball and in in baseball. Softball also was a very big 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:45.037 thing when I first came here because the valley they had big softball 00:36:45.070 --> 00:36:52.336 games, women's softball was very big and they were amateur. They had a 00:36:52.369 --> 00:37:00.369 stadium over off of Van Buren that was very popular. Rosemont played 00:37:00.909 --> 00:37:06.796 softball. That's right. She was a big booster of that. And so was Naina 00:37:06.829 --> 00:37:14.829 and um a lot of them softball people came over and um two p from nine. But 00:37:19.369 --> 00:37:23.776 yeah that department grew from, we were in more activity building for many 00:37:23.809 --> 00:37:31.617 years. And then when they built the new gym which is um west of what the 00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:35.407 bookstore now um 00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:40.497 that was quite a move. And then of course the department grew into what 00:37:40.530 --> 00:37:45.646 what the professionals called exercise science and became really more 00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:50.427 science oriented and research oriented. Where exercise and its effects on 00:37:50.460 --> 00:37:58.097 the human body were big items and became less of a activity oriented 00:37:58.130 --> 00:38:06.130 teaching of skills in dance and sports lesson to a degree. And but we had 00:38:08.420 --> 00:38:16.420 Margaret clan was nationally known in archery competition And uh 00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:22.077 Dorothy Galindez was quite well known in dance. And then Margaret Gizmo 00:38:22.110 --> 00:38:25.986 came along and um, 00:38:26.019 --> 00:38:34.019 we were instrumental out of our department to form the dance department 00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:41.037 that's now in fine arts. So that grew out of Margaret's work and out of 00:38:41.070 --> 00:38:48.887 our department. And um, then the mona Plummer was 00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:54.486 very good in swimming and she won a lot of of national awards in swimming. 00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:59.807 So I'd say five or 6 of the women in that department made the national 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.287 scene 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.117 Before. Competition for women was a big thing before. Title nine. Really 00:39:07.150 --> 00:39:13.967 got gave us an extra boost. We were busy doing competition here in Arizona 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:18.686 state. 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:23.686 Yeah. So you saw a lot of changes. It sounds like from your department 00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:28.367 when you came being dance and Dennis and things like that. Yeah, it was 00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:34.557 pretty activity oriented. Plus the major courses that we talked to for the 00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:42.590 teachers methods courses. Yeah, it uh, moved along along with all the 00:39:43.409 --> 00:39:49.387 healthy competition that we could drum up. So you mentioned the teachers 00:39:49.420 --> 00:39:52.997 courses, you were teaching teachers how to teach this method. There are 00:39:53.030 --> 00:39:59.186 methods courses. Yeah. Right. Methods of teaching. Right, mm hmm, mm hmm. 00:39:59.219 --> 00:40:04.577 And of course they took physiology and anatomy and kinesiology and and um 00:40:04.610 --> 00:40:12.610 , all the science courses that go along with this sort of thing. So run 00:40:12.730 --> 00:40:16.816 through your career again for me as you came in and moved up to stay for a 00:40:16.849 --> 00:40:21.177 while. You were the head of the department after? Yeah, I was when we 00:40:21.210 --> 00:40:28.847 moved into the new building, nine had retired and I became chairman for mm 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:36.880 mm 56 years. And then, um, then they brought in another person from the 00:40:37.059 --> 00:40:45.059 outside to be chairman. Uh, that's fine with me. I was busy. You didn't 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:48.907 really want to be here. Well, you know, it's kind of hard to do all I was 00:40:48.940 --> 00:40:55.336 doing because at one point, um, we didn't have money to pay coaches and at 00:40:55.369 --> 00:41:00.177 one point the golf group, I didn't have anybody 00:41:00.210 --> 00:41:08.117 as a coach. So I doubled in golf and tennis. And until we could find 00:41:08.150 --> 00:41:13.947 somebody, you know, to take a teaching in the department position and 00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:18.497 coach to the gulf. So you were a teacher and a coach. And as I said before 00:41:18.530 --> 00:41:26.367 , the coaching was all free. No pay for that at all. Why do people want to 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:31.506 do that well? Because like me, they thought women ought to have the 00:41:31.539 --> 00:41:37.887 opportunity to to use their skills in competition and by joy if we didn't 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:43.546 do something about it, it wouldn't happen. And we had quite a few good 00:41:43.579 --> 00:41:49.387 golfers. And when you said it wasn't the same for the men, the men coaches 00:41:49.420 --> 00:41:54.977 were paid, right? Men coaches got paid. Yeah, 00:41:55.010 --> 00:42:01.287 well I I know you can't believe it, but um it's so because our teaching 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:06.066 load was our pay and 00:42:06.099 --> 00:42:12.736 all right interest in being a coach was was covered in my case by teaching 00:42:12.769 --> 00:42:20.086 , by the credit I got for advanced class and that was pretty much what 00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:26.856 they did for archery and for golf and for swimming and as part of the 00:42:26.889 --> 00:42:33.316 teaching load, that was just what you did. Mhm. And it was fortunate that 00:42:33.349 --> 00:42:38.456 we had some people who wanted to do it because 00:42:38.489 --> 00:42:44.646 we didn't have to start from scratch when fred miller became when card 00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:49.807 smith left in Ecclesiastes and chairman of our department fred miller came 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:55.867 in and he 00:42:55.900 --> 00:43:01.166 he went around, gave everybody a choice of either teaching and doing what 00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:08.967 we, the way we've done it are becoming a paid coach and some of the people 00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.467 um 00:43:11.500 --> 00:43:19.500 did that, I didn't how come? Well I wanted to be a professor, I was a 00:43:21.170 --> 00:43:28.376 professor and I didn't want to give all that up and no, what year was that 00:43:28.409 --> 00:43:36.409 ? I knew you were gonna ask me and I don't know exactly, it would be 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:46.467 In the Middle 70's And when did title nine get past? 00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:51.566 He would just celebrating something um 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:59.367 title nine Would be in like 79, 80 00:43:59.400 --> 00:44:04.356 era, The last part of the 70s and early 80s, 00:44:04.389 --> 00:44:11.267 so was that sort of the corresponding changes that were coming before it 00:44:11.300 --> 00:44:17.157 was, it was In response, I think to title nine was in response to the fact 00:44:17.190 --> 00:44:20.256 that um, 00:44:20.289 --> 00:44:24.586 quite a few people across the country were really interested in seeing 00:44:24.619 --> 00:44:32.619 that the women got a fair shake in athletics. So some of the national, uh 00:44:34.489 --> 00:44:41.577 , groups like the National Organization for Physical Education had some 00:44:41.610 --> 00:44:46.756 subdivisions like girls and women's sports division, for instance, which 00:44:46.789 --> 00:44:54.789 began to generate pressure on the government to pass laws making it 00:44:55.380 --> 00:45:02.557 possible for sports to be um, girls to have this opportunity in sports and 00:45:02.590 --> 00:45:08.037 , and really to make schools give them the opportunity to do it. And it 00:45:08.070 --> 00:45:11.626 sounds like that's right around the time of the equal rights amendment. So 00:45:11.659 --> 00:45:16.847 when that didn't pass then they did timeline instead or did it. So they 00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:21.736 said they didn't need the equal license, whatever. I don't know all of the 00:45:21.769 --> 00:45:27.456 background of, I mean all the pressures that were generated, but we were 00:45:27.489 --> 00:45:32.557 talking about it for a long, long time and trying to generate some kind of 00:45:32.590 --> 00:45:38.517 response from, and literally the, the american Association of Health, 00:45:38.550 --> 00:45:43.816 physical Education and Recreation and dance through that organization? 00:45:43.849 --> 00:45:47.767 Some of the subdivisions, like I mentioned division of women's girls and 00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:54.657 women's sports. Uh, we're big pushes in this area. 00:45:54.690 --> 00:45:59.686 So were you involved in pushing for some of that? Yes, I was. Why don't 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:04.316 you tell me about that? Well, um, we pushed it pretty heavily here on 00:46:04.349 --> 00:46:10.586 campus and so everybody knew about that our programs here and what they 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:15.157 knew was that we gave scholarships. They thought and as I said before we 00:46:15.190 --> 00:46:20.456 gave activity scholarships which were not athletic scholarships. But it 00:46:20.489 --> 00:46:26.117 did give us an opportunity to get students that some other schools didn't 00:46:26.150 --> 00:46:32.106 have because they had no no recompense for women athletes to come to a 00:46:32.139 --> 00:46:38.986 school. What kind of a scholarship tuition and fees only didn't have to do 00:46:39.019 --> 00:46:44.416 with boarding room and all the stuff that that and the athletes get that 00:46:44.449 --> 00:46:51.947 the men athletes got. And I remember we 00:46:51.980 --> 00:46:59.566 we won national titles in golf and in tennis and in swimming. And when I 00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:04.057 was chairman I remember writing a note to the president. I won't tell you 00:47:04.090 --> 00:47:10.986 who it was saying. You know reminding him that we had all these national 00:47:11.019 --> 00:47:19.019 titles that year and he wrote back I know you're just justly proud. It was 00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:26.037 kind of how nice that's all he said. 00:47:26.070 --> 00:47:31.646 Not much recognition. No he was one that 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:38.247 I didn't care one wit about it and you don't want to name him. 00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:43.456 Well I I think he is. I think he's collected his just rewards so I won't 00:47:43.489 --> 00:47:47.577 go any further historical 00:47:47.610 --> 00:47:52.646 record. I suppose we could look it up. But yeah. 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.517 Yeah. Well it wouldn't be nice for me to to to criticize the president of 00:47:57.550 --> 00:48:01.856 A. S. U. Well you're just saying that he didn't give you the support that 00:48:01.889 --> 00:48:07.227 you would. Well he didn't he wasn't thrilled by what we were doing I think 00:48:07.260 --> 00:48:11.767 anything that good recognition to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if it 00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:18.736 didn't cost very much as far as you know national things. Um 00:48:18.769 --> 00:48:22.356 I've been on, I've been on all kinds of committees in in the girls and 00:48:22.389 --> 00:48:27.307 women's sports division over the years. There's a lot as a lot of pe 00:48:27.340 --> 00:48:33.086 people have because that's who we are and um everybody knew what we were 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:38.177 doing here and that I was outspoken where girls and women's activities 00:48:38.210 --> 00:48:41.876 were concerned, I felt like that they should have equal rights with the 00:48:41.909 --> 00:48:49.909 guys and I made no bones about it and so 00:48:50.250 --> 00:48:56.887 some other people joined in and so it came about did you early on 00:48:56.920 --> 00:48:59.836 everything that that would happen? 00:48:59.869 --> 00:49:05.447 Well we were doing alright with competition. We had formed several 00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:11.236 conference groups and inner mountain and had the had University of New 00:49:11.269 --> 00:49:18.847 Mexico and Brigham Young and the university of Utah and Arizona we formed 00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:26.880 a conference of our own. And so if nationals nationals at the national 00:49:27.750 --> 00:49:33.526 level, if nothing happened we were busy doing our thing but of course it 00:49:33.559 --> 00:49:41.559 was nice to have um a national tournament and so being on on that 00:49:42.030 --> 00:49:46.537 committee helped a lot two. 00:49:46.570 --> 00:49:51.537 So mhm. 00:49:51.570 --> 00:49:55.967 As your career progresses and how how when did you retire or what would 00:49:56.000 --> 00:50:02.997 you? I retired in in 80 86 and discovered it was a life I was really cut 00:50:03.030 --> 00:50:08.916 out to leave. Why is that? What are you doing in your retirement? Well, I 00:50:08.949 --> 00:50:14.066 discovered I was a pretty good walker away from things. I bet I haven't, I 00:50:14.099 --> 00:50:21.227 haven't been back to the white Montana center except for official things 00:50:21.260 --> 00:50:27.736 that I was invited to come. I, I only went back to the department one time 00:50:27.769 --> 00:50:33.126 and that was christmas time one time because 00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:40.436 I was just busy doing what I wanted to do. And um As I say for instance, 00:50:40.469 --> 00:50:46.506 we are now working on the 9th edition of our dance book. So in among all 00:50:46.539 --> 00:50:50.947 the years I've talked about, we spent a lot of time revising the dance 00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:58.006 book and then I pulled out the social dance 00:50:58.039 --> 00:51:05.367 in 1995 and published a separate social dance book which is now in its 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:08.727 second printing, 00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:15.336 it's been published 2nd edition, two editions of it. And the main dance 00:51:15.369 --> 00:51:22.236 book that uh I've been a member of producing Is in its ninth edition. So 00:51:22.269 --> 00:51:28.316 that's been running since 1950. So I had all that to do plus I love to 00:51:28.349 --> 00:51:35.927 play golf. And then I got to be president of everything in Tempe Arizona 00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:42.356 Kendrick golf golf women's group, a issue retiree group. I was in the 00:51:42.389 --> 00:51:49.597 group that started the retirement group and they always feel like at least 00:51:49.630 --> 00:51:55.767 one woman should be in on the committee. So the the committee that got 00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:03.800 together to form um Brent Brown was vice president and he told he was the 00:52:04.059 --> 00:52:08.517 one who wanted to get this thing started and I was the woman on the 00:52:08.550 --> 00:52:16.550 committee and um we had several nice luncheon meetings and stuff and then 00:52:17.750 --> 00:52:21.017 they you had 00:52:21.050 --> 00:52:24.117 the 00:52:24.150 --> 00:52:28.046 you have a staff president and a faculty president and you have a man 00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:33.986 president and a woman president. So because they alternated like that, I 00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:42.019 got to be president at one time. So um we wrote it the the fundamental 00:52:42.980 --> 00:52:49.517 bylaws so that women got a share of the good work but it was a lot of fun 00:52:49.550 --> 00:52:55.796 and the retiree group has grown immensely I think and I'm very happy about 00:52:55.829 --> 00:53:01.637 all of it. I haven't participated in a lot of the meetings and so on 00:53:01.670 --> 00:53:05.916 because I'm too busy doing other things. 00:53:05.949 --> 00:53:09.697 It sounds like you spent a lot of your life though being the woman on the 00:53:09.730 --> 00:53:15.316 committee or the I would say so 00:53:15.349 --> 00:53:17.577 I'm 00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:24.017 happy to to break the the custom of man man man 00:53:24.050 --> 00:53:29.796 but we live in a society that is male prone and if somebody doesn't kick 00:53:29.829 --> 00:53:35.376 up their heels now and then you know and we could we could improve in a 00:53:35.409 --> 00:53:41.416 lot of ways where if you look at the list of any offices in any 00:53:41.449 --> 00:53:47.717 organization in a s you guess who gets to be secretary, a woman, guess who 00:53:47.750 --> 00:53:54.017 gets far as vice president, a woman for instance of faculty. 00:53:54.050 --> 00:53:59.916 Okay faculty association. 00:53:59.949 --> 00:54:03.206 I remember one male secretary 00:54:03.239 --> 00:54:06.307 is an english department 00:54:06.340 --> 00:54:10.606 outside of that, it was always some lady. 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:15.577 So there's been quite a history of that you mentioned several times. This 00:54:15.610 --> 00:54:20.577 dance book, Can you tell me what is the dance book? 00:54:20.610 --> 00:54:25.436 The dance book is called Dance awhile and it has international folk dance 00:54:25.469 --> 00:54:33.469 in it. It has square, dense material in it and it has history of dance. It 00:54:34.829 --> 00:54:41.907 has methods of teaching dance. It literally is a methods book for, for 00:54:41.940 --> 00:54:47.227 people who are going out and teach and physical education and who may need 00:54:47.260 --> 00:54:55.260 need to know how to teach dance. And um, um, we started it when I was at 00:54:56.210 --> 00:55:03.086 the University of texas, marla, Swinson Walla and jane Harris Erickson, 00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:08.977 The other two authors right now jane isn't active in it anymore. But 00:55:09.010 --> 00:55:14.327 Marlys and I still are with Kathie dart, who's at the University of Oregon 00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:21.756 in Corvallis, I guess that's Oregon state in Corvallis. And um, it's been 00:55:21.789 --> 00:55:28.336 the best selling methods book and dance book over the years. It's out. So 00:55:28.369 --> 00:55:31.006 ordinary fiction. 00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:34.677 It's pretty amazing. It's over 50 years old and you're doing it, it's 53 00:55:34.710 --> 00:55:39.947 plus years old now and we, we didn't, we weren't gonna do anymore, but the 00:55:39.980 --> 00:55:45.557 company that has it, Uh, ask us to do, they say it's time to do another 00:55:45.590 --> 00:55:50.626 edition. So get busy. Has dance changed a lot over those 50 years danced 00:55:50.659 --> 00:55:55.256 like a lot of things is cyclic. For instance, when I pulled out the social 00:55:55.289 --> 00:55:59.236 dance because it was a section of that book and made a separate book, I 00:55:59.269 --> 00:56:06.336 did it because ballroom dancing where one dances with somebody waltz or 00:56:06.369 --> 00:56:14.369 chacha. Uh, old time wall ballroom dance has become popular again and 00:56:14.429 --> 00:56:20.017 people are doing a lot of that and they're teaching a lot of it. So I 00:56:20.050 --> 00:56:26.856 pulled that out sort of emphasize that square dance used to be extremely 00:56:26.889 --> 00:56:34.847 popular and it's kind of disappeared and international folk dances held up 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:39.287 because I think a lot of communities throughout the United States have 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:45.997 still have ethnic groups that are holding on to their ways of doing things. 00:56:46.030 --> 00:56:52.796 And for instance, one of my good friends is Nelda 00:56:52.829 --> 00:56:58.497 drury inn san Antonio and she's an expert in mexican dance and for 00:56:58.530 --> 00:57:04.977 instance, mexican dances very, very, it's held really stable because I 00:57:05.010 --> 00:57:11.577 think we have a stable population of, of Hispanic people who appreciate 00:57:11.610 --> 00:57:18.936 their songs and their dance. And then um, in ST louis you have a lot of 00:57:18.969 --> 00:57:26.626 irish people san Francisco is full of ethnic people and so people of in 00:57:26.659 --> 00:57:31.017 the ethnic mode, I shouldn't say. Yeah, I think people, but anyway, um, 00:57:31.050 --> 00:57:37.367 it's, it's held pretty stable now. Our book is sold to colleges and 00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:43.197 universities who need a text for methods courses and how to teach dance. 00:57:43.230 --> 00:57:48.867 So if the curriculum in the physical education department and the 00:57:48.900 --> 00:57:51.497 university 00:57:51.530 --> 00:57:57.456 kind of wayne's and wafts and changes, then we don't sell too many books, 00:57:57.489 --> 00:58:05.489 however, we've lucked out, it's, it's not overall as popular as it was and 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:10.086 um up through 00:58:10.119 --> 00:58:12.186 1980 00:58:12.219 --> 00:58:20.219 but it's still something that the publishers want to have to sell to their 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:27.166 public. Mm hmm. Of course, you know, xeroxing has caused a lot of trouble 00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:33.686 in publishing. Yes, that's getting worse. 00:58:33.719 --> 00:58:36.827 Are there any other special memories or anything that you're particularly 00:58:36.860 --> 00:58:42.086 proud of and your achievements that you want to talk about? 00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:48.347 Well, we I just mentioned this because it just happened. We had a tennis 00:58:48.380 --> 00:58:53.086 reunion during homecoming. This past 00:58:53.119 --> 00:59:01.119 end of october And over 50 former tennis players came back to celebrate 00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:07.287 reunion and we had a marvelous time. And that's 00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:13.517 that's a lot of hugs and and stuff, you know, and the university did a 00:59:13.550 --> 00:59:21.287 good job of entertaining them and that we all got a little reminder 00:59:21.320 --> 00:59:29.320 and I'm kind of proud of the fact that practically every student tennis 00:59:29.500 --> 00:59:37.287 player and other students too are so they keep in touch 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:44.296 and it's like a big family. And I think if that can happen, you've done 00:59:44.329 --> 00:59:46.387 okay. 00:59:46.420 --> 00:59:50.316 Who? That sounds like a good point to kind of wrap things up. Anything 00:59:50.349 --> 00:59:58.349 else that you wanted to bring? I think I've bored you stiff already know 00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:02.546 things I've never even thought about. I mean dance, who had thought that 01:00:02.579 --> 01:00:04.840 there hadbeen